#sab discourse

[greensaplinggrace]

“Character A didn’t love Character B because they hurt them” discourse is truly terrible because it assigns a moral value to love that simply does not exist. love doesn’t actually mean anything about someone’s character. it doesn’t make someone’s actions toward another any better or any worse, it doesn’t prevent atrocities, and it doesn’t prevent abuse.

love is a worthless emotion when it comes to morals because it simply holds no bearing on them. true love doesn’t exist. there is no better or more pure version of love. in the end love doesn’t mean anything. it’s a non-emotion. it’s the child of passion and affection and dedication. doing something bad doesn’t preclude a feeling of love, because a lack of love isn’t a requirement for immoral actions, and morality isn’t a requirement for feeling love.

#like there's no moral high ground saying the character loved or didn't love the other charater #because its irrelevent #it's a driving factor like any emotion is a driving factor and that's about it #it's not a sign of morality or immorality #it's literally just love #love as an emotion is an ENTIRELY separate entity from a healthy relationship #shadow and bone #grishaverse #aleksander morozova #the darkling #alina starkov #darklina #hannigram #lawlight #spuffy #sab meta #sab salt #sab discourse #i mean kinda lol #just to be safe #myramblings #negative #fandomcourse

[howtostandinsilence]

darkling fans: in depth discussions about the harmful depiction of persecution in the novels and the racist and antisemitic ways the darkling is written, highlighting how the darkling could have still been a villain if the grisha as a persecuted and marginalized people had been handled better and the story was more aware of itself and the problems it was discussing. detailing where leigh bardugo’s inability to understand politics and oppression led to a damaging puritanical framework for her story that flattened her characters, distracting from the message she was trying to tell and forcing her to rely on ‘tell don’t show’ to convey themes she had no real grasp of.

explaining how they sympathize with the darkling’s efforts to achieve freedom for his people, even if they don’t agree with his methods, and see themselves in the suffering he’s faced at the hands of his oppressors. saying they like the potential he had as a character even as a villain if the story had only been better written.

finding fault in a narrative that champions the return to the status quo and the support of an oppressive monarchy. citing the canonical ways the grisha suffered worse after the darkling’s death and talking about how zoya’s depiction as queen was even more harmful for it’s shallow dismissal of how bigotry and persecution actually works within a system and the very real harm that was done to her people for thousands of years. providing detailed analysis of racism within the grishaverse and how leigh bardugo inadvertently ends up championing forced assimilation for her persecuted fantasy race.

antis, with reading comprehension so fatal they can’t even understand basic literary analysis and critical thinking: darkling fans think of the darkling as a left wing hero! shadow and bone is so so subversive. he represents the most evil men and he is the worst there is! people only like him because he’s so hot... even though mal is also described as hot, and nikolai is too... 

#shadow and bone #the grisha trilogy #anti darkling bs #anti darklina bs #anti shadow and bone #the darkling #sab discourse

[gojonanami]

prof geto (6) preview 💕🫣✨

#sab speaks #sab series [prof suguru] #that’s it from me for this week #gonna uninstall the app for a bit and just focus on life ✨ #need to touch grass #after the discourse this week #I’ll see you guys on the weekend #feel free to pop in my inbox 🥹 #I’m so close to being caught up on asks!!! #everything is on queue since Wednesday night #but pop on for leaks though

[osaemu]

i'm sorry but how r u gonna be close mutuals with a pedo and not know.....

#sabs posts! #i usually don't subpost #but this is the exception #y'all literally had each other's phones numbers #and twitters #and who knows what else #and ur telling everyone u didn't know? #that's actually bullshit #i guarantee u she just didn't wanna get hate #both are equally as bad imo #good thing i already had her blocked 😁😁 #cw discourse

[high-warlock-of-brooklyn]

Y'know what I loved most about SoC? That they were all nobodies.

Kaz was just another pigeon plucked by an experienced conman. Inej was just another victim in a sea of victims of a horrific act of inhuman brutality. Jesper was just another boy hiding out and involving himself into something dangerous. Nina was just another lost Grisha in a whole world full of lost Grishas. Matthias was just another fjerdan boy about to be incorporated into ages old faulty beliefs for good. Wylan was just another boy noone gave a damn about.

They were all dispensable. Disposable. Inconsequential.

And they CHOSE not to be. They fought and bled and near died to leave marks. To take revenge on the ones who hurt them. To help people who are just as disposable as they once were. To pay old debts and crawl their way to the light at the end of a gruesome tunnel. To become someone who wouldn't need to cower and hide. To become better.

And I feel the show just. Erased it kind of?

Shadow And Bone have always been about the big things, darkness and light, good and evil, choices that define the fate of the universe. It's so larger in scale compared to the dingy streets of Ketterdam where you'll be plucked like damn pigeons and people will blame you for being unaware.

It's like Avengers saving the earth, vs people like Daredevil and Spiderman who's just your neighborhood people trying to fight and protect one punch at a time. So when you have an Endgame level of teamup, with light swords and flying stunts with said sword, it feels like the line kinda blurred.

There's a reason Kaz couldn't possibly win against a Volcra or a Nischevoya, because he's not supposed to. Similarly Inej doesn't just leave the crew she loves so dearly to sail on a airship, no matter how Captain Ghafa appears at the end of CK. Because that Captain Ghafa has already gone through the whole of two books and seems proper for her arc.

It's just. So so mismatched. So out of sync with their own lore. And it all takes away so much from the beauty of the both worlds.

Shadow and Bone is a story about destiny and fate and choices and light and darkness and responsibilities of things like a nation or the whole world. Six of Crows is so much more personal, it's about trauma and first hand experiences of pure human cruelty and revenge and loss and pain. The stakes are high yes but they're so wildly different.

Idk man, just separating both worlds seems like a good idea for the sake of the story.

#this is not to start up discourse!!!!! #i love the show regardless #just my two cents #shadow and bone #six of crows #crooked kingdom #sab season 2 #leigh bardugo #jace.txt

[forested-witch]

right wing americans will really try to convince you that free speech is under attack because minecraft and twitter have moderation and then complain that football games and schools dont have enough censorship

#sab speaks #the final bastions of american free speech are clearly the block game and the toxic discourse website #but teachers cannot say they are gay married

[sainteda]

is there anything in the world as inefficient and monotonous as darkling discourse

#must we repeat the same arguments for all time #into purgatory #? #sab discourse in general is just so awful #like #star wars levels of awful #anyways here's my contribution!

[honkifyourelonely]

was gonna put this under a gifset but then that felt mean. anyways ppl who are pro physically affectionate kaz and inej i luv that for y’all but that is not me. personally. and the hallucination scene made me physically cringe away from the screen…

#maybe id be into it later on + when it’s real lol? #but it just felt so wrong… to me… #i know there is so much discourse abt this. days like this i love being a small blogger just making her way in the world 🕺 #original #sab

[greensaplinggrace]

yeah you know what? I'm going to get into this. "don't humanize villains"/"this abuser is a monster" is some of the worst character discourse in fandom. abusers are not other. abusers are not always easy to recognize. othering someone who's done terrible things from humanity is an arrogant, poisonous idea.

that is a person who is doing those things, and you want so badly to be unable to fall into such patterns of harm and abuse that you will force that person into another category of species altogether, and in so doing you spare yourself from introspection and you give yourself a pretty little pedestal to stand on and you shame everybody who fell for a red flag that is surely so easy to recognize. and you give into prejudice you assign moral values to attributes outside of yourself and you think you are so above doing harm that you could never act in such a way, even as it is a capability within all of us to do so.

get off your self righteous high horse for a moment and use your fucking brain. I'm sick of people in fandom claiming to be the most moral members that are the "only people willing to discuss this" and then every statement out of their mouth is harmful and pervasive word vomit.

#shadow and bone #grishaverse #sab #aleksander morozova #the darkling #sab discourse #anti darklina bs #hannibal #iwtv #rdr2 #da2 #dragon age #btvs #antis are people who would miss the fucking point of lolita #anti anti #i guess idk i've never tagged anything as that before #myramblings #fandomcourse #abuse mention tw #abuse tw #negative

[howtostandinsilence]

How do you get a detailed response about criticizing the racism in the Grishaverse and somehow come out thinking that person cares more about how hot the Darkling is? How do you see someone focus their entire argument on the incorrect and offensive portrayal of the Grisha and thus the Darkling as a character and think their only concern is how fuckable the Darkling is?

Nobody is trying to justify his actions. They’re trying to talk about how persecution and oppression operates within the Grishaverse, and how Leigh Bardugo incorrectly portrayed that. The Darkling is a large part of that discussion because he’s the main antagonist, and is subject to an extensive amount of stereotyping and offensive themes which practically make him a caricature.

Discussing how the Grisha are portrayed doesn’t preclude discussing the harm caused by the Darkling. But when every major theme ties Grisha traits to the Darkling, ties the entirety of their fight for their rights to him, and then turns around and makes him another badly stereotyped vilified revolutionary, people are going to want to discuss that.

You can’t separate the bad writing of the Darkling from the bad writing of the Grisha as a whole when the story works tirelessly to make the two things interchangeable. The Grisha revolution should be separate from the Darkling as a character, the problem is that it’s not.

#sab discourse #leigh bardugo critical #this is ridiculous #we're arguing the same thing #and the only thing we disagree on is seemingly that the darkling should not be analyzed under the same lens as the grisha plight #why should he be given a watsonian analysis whilst the grisha are given a doylist one? #the frustration is that you are criticizing the darkling's character on a different level from the overall writing as a whole #but the two are not separable #you cannot have a doylist analysis with a watsonian one #you're arguing two different things at that point #anti darkling bs #but it's not because neither of us is anti darkling #this discussion is circular

[gojonanami]

Hey Sab! I saw your tags talking about how you'd be open to having a conversation about your stance on aging up minor characters, rather receiving blatant hate. Can you explain why you think it's okay then? I'll be honest with you, I'm of the stance that it's wrong. But if you're open to having a discussion, I'd like to hear what you have to say about it, and where you're coming from.

hi friend, first I want to thank you for your very respectful ask — and for feeling comfortable enough to come and ask me about it! I completely respect your opinion and it’s valid— I’ll explain a little what my perspective is on this is—but first:

For others: this is not an invitation for people to come into my inbox and attack me, this is not me opening people up to tagging me in negative posts or messaging me bullshit—if you don’t agree with me, totally fine! if you don’t want to see my posts, just block me. You can have your opinion without feeling as if it’s an attack on you — just as I don’t view yours as an attack on me.

anyway back to the point:

for myself, writing is very little about writing from my perspective, usually it’s about taking an idea and spinning it into a story. the way I write my fics is honestly not much different than I write my own books — except the main character (in this case, reader) is not described much and has a more flexible personality / background. i never self insert myself into stories and even reading fanfiction, it’s more for the story than anything else. just to give some context for my writing process.

I personally would never write a fic about a character is underage engaging in adult acts in fanfiction, that’s just my personal preference. I enjoy writing characters who are older — usually college age and up. I don’t really enjoy writing romance that involves high school or younger, because media is saturated with that (re: every teenage romance show in existence — riverdale, teen wolf, etc). but this is about taking a character (who in this present day would be of age) and placing them in a setting where they would be of age, with other characters who are of age and, in my fic’s case, the exact same age.

I don’t see a problem with taking a character and imagining what they are like older — they are fictional, they do not exist, they do not have rights, they don’t even have a consciousness in any way— and placing them in an environment where they are older and do things that older people do. I see no difference in this and than an author doing a timeskip and showing what the characters are like when they are older. I assume wouldn’t have a problem with this if we ever get designs or a timeskip in JJK, like how the haikyuu fandom did. There’s also a difference between that in RPF, which I’m not a fan of, and aging up real people who are minors — that’s a whole different story since those people actually exist. I understand people’s outrage and want to protect minors from these depictions of them — but I don’t understand why in the case of fictional characters where they don’t exist in a vacuum, AUs exist where people literally make them into eternal beings, monsters, royalty, etc — why it’s a problem to put them in a universe where they are of age and have grown up and get to live normal lives as adults, including engaging in adult acts. Because we see this all the time done in media and also we see minors depicted to engage in adult acts in media today — in books, TV, movies, etc. while I’m not okay writing fiction (fics or not) about that, we cannot lie and say it doesnt happen every day.

now this also leads into censorship in literature and media, which is a major issue all over the world, including the USA (where I live). obviously some things in literature are NEVER okay in real life — but if we start censoring certain things because they aren’t okay in real life, what will come next? we can’t show murder because it’s not okay irl? we can’t show assault because it’s not okay irl? some of these things yes, shouldn’t be depicted gratuitously in fiction, for no reason, but at the same time, once we start drawing this line, it becomes a slippery slope. soon, we can’t show violence at all in fiction — which sometimes it’s necessary for the story you’re telling. for some others, depicting these acts in fiction is a safe way for them to process their trauma — dark romance fiction in general has seen a rise, especially on TikTok, and I think we all have read or seen things that characters have done in a tv show or book or fic where we’re like maybe that’s hot in that fictional setting, but if someone real said that to me, I’m calling the police (see the trend on TikTok of people quoting fictional men saying ridiculous things that have people kicking their feet but in real life would have you putting them in jail). but fiction is a safe way to explore these things without any danger. and that’s okay!

also censorship is used as a dangerous tool to make people ignorant and it’s easy to draw a line where violence shouldn’t be depicted to ‘let’s ban these books because they depict violence but also other things we don’t want people learning about’ — like the book ban that plagues the USA — from books about genocide, slavery, etc.

I think fiction should be a place to explore ideas, even ones that are uncomfortable. And that doesn’t mean I’m saying that means its okay for pedophiles to write creepy things about underage girls. I think we can all agree that’s not okay and that’s a straw man’s argument at best because we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about aging up a fictional character and placing them in an environment with other like aged characters.

Are we going to stop people from writing murderers in fics / literature because we’re afraid it will cause them to murder? We have to be able to distinguish between what is reality and fiction — just because I watched a show about a fictional killer, doesn’t mean I’m going to go murder people. If other people can’t, then they shouldn’t be reading fiction and should be seeking professional help.

For the context of my yuji fic that’s been catching a lot of heat because of this, it’s a childhood best friends to lovers fic. it’s a reader who grew up with yuji, came to college and ends up in a friends with benefits with him, only for her to fall for him. The actual act of sex is just used as a plot device — the point of the story is them falling in love, and reader seeing yuji in a different light. People who are in college have sex (for the most part) it’s a part of adult life and growing up (again for the most part).

overall, we’ve all seen this discourse time and time again — and it’s just a matter of preference at this point. this is why people have tags and warnings — if you don’t like it, just block the person or don’t read it. it’s as simple as that. people are never going to agree on this issue. and everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as it’s not hurting anyone or themselves. and if all of this sticks to the fictional world, I don’t see a problem

I completely respect your right to have your own preference/opinion on this, and I hope you can do the same for me! thank for being so respectful!

(Also others who disagree with me, just block me. Don’t send me asks, don’t send me hateful messages, don’t try to argue with me, don’t tag me in rude posts — just block me or ignore the post).

this is going to be my last post on this issue. I don’t like to make this blog about discourse. I hate discourse. This is my hobby. It’s for fun. If I wanted to have an argument, I’d go pick a fight on twt. so please don’t bother. I like the discussion, it’s important. But I don’t want to argue pointlessly.

#ugh I hate discourse lmao #this is again the last ask I’ll be answering #if you send hate I’m not reading it and you’ll be blocked so #you’re wasting you’re time #sab [asks] #sab [anons]

[osaemu]

mini-announcement, i probably won't be posting/interacting over the weekend because i have a big tournament and i'll be spending time with my team !! just a heads up in case you're wondering why i haven't replied to you or your ask yet :,) sorry about that 🤍

cw: discourse under the cut.

i didn't want to have to make this post, but lately i've been receiving a lot of anonymous asks about a certain blog and unfortunately, it's gotten to a point where i feel like i have to address it. don't take this post as being hateful in any way—this is just something i just wanted to get off my chest. this isn't a big deal, so no reblogs either, thanks.

the bottom four asks all came within a span of five minutes, so i think it's a reasonable assumption to make that they were all sent by the same person. as for who that is, i'll get into that at the end of the post.

but first of all, i can say without a doubt that i have a personality of my own. case closed. nobody's actually said how we're similar in any way, so i'll assume these are all from no-lifes who couldn't find anything better to hate on.

second of all, my netflix banner was actually inspired by another blog, who i won't namedrop for the sake of their peace. and either way, our banners don't even look similar, nor do either of us own netflix. x x

and finally, those are actually the two most braindead asks i've ever received. are we copyrighting letters now? does anyone own the letter e?

don't compare blogs/writers—it's never ended well, and it never will.

even after getting these asks, i still didn't say anything about it because.. i don't really care. everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and what you think of me is up to you.

moving on, i think tee left tumblr sometime in between that time and now, and i was told by a mutual that i was mentioned within the post. if i'm being completely honest, i didn't read all of it because we have each other blocked anyways and it was a lot to read through.. so i skimmed over the bit about me, but didn't really see anything of interest, which is why i didn't address it.

i also had anons on at the time, and i did think it was interesting how i didn't receive a single ask about tee from then up until today, about a month later. up until a couple hours ago, i hadn't even thought about her because, again, i don't care. this is tumblr dot com, not my love life. most of the drama here is over pixels anyways, so i don't waste my day thinking about it.

neither of these are particularly interesting, but the fact that you weirdos are still associating me with someone who i'm not even mutuals with is.. not to my liking.

idk what false accounts the second anon's talking about, because i don't go looking for drama. if you need proof, here's how many sideblogs i have... (click the image)

zero!

as for the idea that i'm jealous of tee, i'm perfectly fine with the amount of followers i have now. i've always been open about my satisfaction with my interaction rates, and that hasn't changed.

and obviously, tee's a good writer—when have i ever said otherwise? if it was based solely off of writing, i would say that she deserves every single one of her followers, maybe even more. i don't think anybody on this app would disagree with me when i say that she's genuinely one of the best fanfic writers i've come across.

however, i won't support someone just because i like their content. i've stopped listening to many artists because i didn't like who they were as a person, and similarly, once i read the reblogs on a certain callout post, i stopped consuming tee's content as well.

there's a reason i avoided making this post in the past—because i don't really have anything to say. tee and i have never had a directly negative interaction, as i'm sure you all can see in her archival post. the reason i don't support her anymore is because i didn't particularly like how she never spoke up about her followers sending death threats to other followers. that's it.

while i have my guesses as to who sent those anons, i don't care enough to find out. and i think it's better that way. this conflict's been dragged on for long enough, and this is my way of saying that i'd like to be excluded from this narrative from now on.

tee, if someone sends you this post at some point, feel free to contact me if you'd like to clear anything up. we're both adults, and i think we can agree that nothing monumental has happened between us to cause any of this. honestly, the only people dragging this on are the weirdo anons in my inbox.

to whoever's reading this post, thank you for listening to my side of the story—it was nice to be able to get this off my chest. wish me luck at my tournament, and i'll be back after the weekend !! 🤍

#sabs posts! #cw discourse #mutuals can ask for my discord in dms btw <3

[jade-curtiss]

O no nvm, no i want to just run after my former crowd and tackle them and be like "mishap in the hegelian or kantic waaaaaaay" and they argue forever.

#no that's an intense running joke between me and only person and it's extremely contextual #but imagine getting sealionned and neither of us know if we have a mastermind on line or a sealionner since it's that kind of discourse #naon sab si tu fucking pense que sen puisse lire kant ok mais hegel o u b l i o n s...

[neoswift]

PAIRING.    jaemin x fem!oc

CATEGORY.    filo social media au, fluff, crack, humor, “enemies” to lovers (kind of… not really), arianator!jaemin, swiftie!oc, stan twitter drama, college!au, established relationship (not exactly ... pero parang ganon na nga HAHAHA)

WARNINGS.    language, puro kagaguhan lang, stan twitter drama?, ag vs. ts discourse prolly

SYNOPSIS.    what are the odds na ‘yung kalandian mo turns out to be the same person na lagi mong kaaway sa twitter? for sab’s case—probably 10/10.

REQUESTED BY. anon! (send smau reqests here!)

STATUS. on going!

NOTE. sa anon na nagrequest neto last year ... sorry natagalan HAHAHAHA ETO NA SYA !! guys swiftie and arianator po ak pls wag nyo ak conceal CHZ HAHAHA anyway super crack lang to and mostly parang walang patutunguhan, just vibes 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼 also theyre in anitwt for this one kasi ... gusto ko lang ... and theyre dentistry students !! ( no one is surprised HAHAHA) enjoy reading! 🫶🏼

— sab and jaem's playlist!

PARTS!

profiles: main | stan twt | irls

01: resident arianator & swiftie

02: landing-landi

03: what if kayo talaga?

04: ???

05: ???

TAGLIST. @archivedmkl @nctasdfghj @wooyoung-a @morkleetrash @kkotjia @i-aecrysture @injunified @smolpeyy @pepperrye @hibuki-chan @hannie-dul-set @chanfilms @yiz-yo @anya-writes-stuff @w0nderr @mihyu-ckie @remisaki @fullsunld @main-figuresk8-sunghoonie @dejavukirstein @seijenoh @renjun-pretty @skzbeyleynjasnct @yoitbb @najaeminluvbot @hazyru @lune1897@ heynayu @chimajeyn @rensaure @13isacoolnumber @liljeongseong @marahuyornjn @eureah @markleepooh @000rpheus @nanayogurt @luvenshiti @j-8star @flovezen @jaeyuuns @yoonhanzjaem @ssuungchans @shairamaexx @hibernatinghamster @roseltgiri

#hiraya-m #jaemin filo smau #jaemin smau #jaemin x oc #jaemin imagines #jaemin scenarios #jaemin fluff #jaemin crack #jaemin x reader #na jaemin #nct #nct dream #nct x reader #nct filo #nct smau #nct filo smau #social media au #smau: nonsense

[capinejghafa]

NEW YEARS CLEAN-UP 🎊

rules: unburden yourself from the abandoned WIPS collecting dust in your folder and share 5 gifs, then tag five people. (tagged by @taiturner... thank you, i just realized i save a lot of my old sets and then forget but also i save random projects for no good reason lol tagging (no pressure!): @girlbutcherwife @crowley-anthony @samwwise @athousandyearstime @rachelsennot @padme-amidala

ok, so i had a bit too much nervous energy last year and posted most of the sets i wanted to make. which you would think would leave me with nothing else to post, but that's not technically true. most of these are from shadow and bone a few pre/post season, and one tua. there's no rhyme or reason. i just had a time giffing last year.... iykyk.

untitled wylan project. this was made sometime in jan/feb... i know it was before jack's casting... anyways i was watching 15 days (pls don't watch it, it's awful) and this shot was giving me wylan energy so i made it with the intention to post it after s2 premiere and then i didn't. it just felt too modern, so i dropped it.

kanej fic rec. so a few things: 1) this is my gift to @whatanybodygets <3, 2) this was supposed to be a part two of this set / kanej fic (written by alltheworldsinmyhead & Whitherward), and 3) you should read this fic.... i personally love it and it's something small i could make for a friend.

the crows header. this was supposed to be part of larger set after the cancellation, but then i got sad thinking about it and again. i did make a different set afterwards. and then i kept making more sets... so, it wasn't a loss. it's something small and quick and im still sad about sab's fate. will i ever make the set i was planning, no. i just... i want to but i'm also just not entirely sure where i was going with this.

zoyalai gif. i made a few ZN gifs for someone and then i was really sure i was gonna make a whole set based on this gif... but for some reason I didn't. and it ended up just being a fun concept for someone and i still think about making something... but i'll be the first to admit i'm not a huge fan of the ravkan gang lol i won't but it's fun to think about.

allison (greek goddess). way back in 2019, i did a hargreeves as demigods set. which was based on a post i saw... and the comments were, um... not kind, there was a bit of discourse on what character should be which. and as i mentioned this was an inspired set. so i ended up debating back and forth about how much time i wanted to put and whether or not posting it. i did really like experimenting with the pink in this. i even went ahead and got the fonts... just never went anywhere.

#tumblr2023 #tumblr memes #random #tbh i hesitate to make any [blank] as [blank] gifsets #but they are fun to make #the crows #soc #tua #mygifs15