i need to get this out of my head before i continue clone^2 but danny being the first batkid. Like, standard procedure stuff: his parents and sister die, danny ends up with Vlad Masters. He drags him along to stereotypical galas and stuff; Danny is not having a good time.
He ends up going to one of the Wayne Galas being hosted ever since elusive Bruce Wayne has returned to Gotham. Vlad is crowing about having this opportunity as he's been wanting to sink his claws into the company for a long while now. Danny is too busy grieving to care what he wants.
And like most Galas, once Vlad is done showing him off to the other socialites and the like, he disappears. Off to a dark corner, or to one of the many balconies; doesn't matter. There he runs into said star of the show, Bruce who is still young, has been Batman for at least a year at this point, but still getting used to all these damn people and socializing. He's stepped off to hide for a few minutes before stepping back into the shark tank.
And he runs into a kid with circles under his eyes and a dull gleam in them. Familiar, like looking into a mirror.
Danny tries to excuse himself, he hasn't stopped crying since his parents died and it's been months. He rubs his eyes and stands up, and stumbles over a half-hearted apology to Mister Wayne. Some of Vlad's etiquette lessons kicking in.
Bruce is awkward, but he softens. "That's alright, lad," he says, pulling up some of that Brucie Wayne confidence, "I was just coming out here to get some fresh air."
There's a little pressing; Bruce asks who he's here with, Danny says, voice quiet and grief-stricken, that he's with his godfather Vlad Masters. Bruce asks him if he knows where he is, and Danny tells him he does. Bruce offers to leave, Danny tells him to do whatever he wants.
It ends with Bruce staying, standing off to the side with Danny in silence. Neither of them say a word, and Danny eventually leaves first in that same silence.
Bruce looks into Vlad Masters after everything is over, his interest piqued. He finds news about him taking in Danny Fenton: he looks into Danny Fenton. He finds news articles about his parents' deaths, their occupations, everything he can get his hands on.
At the next gala, he sees Danny again. And he looks the same as ever: quiet like a ghost, just as pale, and full of grief. Bruce sits in silence with him again for nearly ten minutes before he strikes a conversation.
"Do you like to do anything?"
Nothing. Just silence.
Bruce isn't quite sure what to do: comfort is not his forte, and Danny doesn't know him. He's smart enough to know that. So he starts talking about other things; anything he can think of that Brucie Wayne might say, that also wasn't inappropriate for a kid to hear.
Danny says nothing the entire time, and is again the first to leave.
Bruce watches from a distance as he intercts with Vlad Masters; how Vlad Masters interacts with him. He doesn't like what he sees: Vlad Masters keeps a hand on Danny's shoulder like one would hold onto the collar of a dog. He parades him around like a trophy he won.
And there are moments, when someone gets too close or when someone tries to shake Danny's hand, of deep possessiveness that flints over Vlad Masters' eyes. Like a dragon guarding a horde.
He plays the act of doting godfather well: but Bruce knows a liar when he sees one. Like recognizes like.
Danny is dull-eyed and blank faced the entire time; he looks miserable.
So Bruce tries to host more parties; if only so that he can talk to Danny alone. Vlad seems all too happy to attend, toting Danny along like a ribbon, and on the dot every hour, Danny slips away to somewhere to hide. Bruce appears twenty minutes later.
"I was looking into your godfather's company," he says one night, trying to think of more things to say. Some nights all they do is sit in silence. "Some of my shareholders were thinking of partnering up--"
"Don't."
He stops. Danny hardly says a word to him, he doesn't even look at him -- he's sitting on the ground, his head in his knees. Like he's trying to hide from the world. But he's looking, blue eyes piercing up at Bruce.
Bruce tilts his head, practiced puppy-like. "Pardon?"
"Don't." Danny says, strongly. "Don't make any deals with Vlad."
It's the most words Danny's spoken to him, and there's a look in his eyes like a candle finding its spark. Something hard. Bruce presses further, "And why is that?"
The spark flutters, and flushes out. Danny blinks like he's coming out of a trance, and slumps back into himself. "Just don't."
Bruce stares at him, thoughtful, before looking away. "Alright. I won't."
And they fall back into silence.
Danny, when he leaves, turns to look at Bruce, "I mean it." He says; soft like he's telling a secret, "Don't make any deals with him. Don't be alone with him. Don't work with him."
He's scampered away before Bruce can question him further.
(He never planned on working with Vlad Masters and his company; he's done his research. He's seen the misfortune. But nothing ever leads back to him. There's no evidence of anything. But Danny knows something.)
At their next meeting, Danny starts the conversation. It's new, and it's welcomed. He says, cutting through their five minute quiet, that he likes stars. And he doesn't like that he can't see them in Gotham.
Bruce hums in interest, and Danny continues talking. It's as if floodgates had been opened, and as Bruce takes a sip of his wine, it tastes like victory.
("Tucker told me once--")
("Tucker?")
("Oh-- uh, one of my best friends. He's a tech geek. We haven't talked in a while.")
(Danny shut down in his grief -- his friends are worried, but can't reach him. When he goes back to the manor with Vlad, he fishes out his phone and sends them a message.)
(They are ecstatic to hear from him.)
It all culminates until one day, when Danny is leaving to go back inside, that Bruce speaks up. "You know," He says, leaning against the railing. "The manor has many rooms; plenty of space for a guest."
The implication there, hidden between the lines. And Danny is smart, he looks at Bruce with a sharp glean in his eyes, and he nods. "Good to know."
The next time they see each other, Danny has something in his hands. "Can you hold onto something for me?" He asks.
When Bruce agrees, Danny places a pearl into his palm. or, at least, it's something that looks like a pearl. Because it's cold to the touch; sinking into Bruce's white silk gloves with ease and shimmering like an opal. It moves a little as it settles into his hand, and the moves like its full of liquid.
Bruce has never seen anything like it before, but he does know this; it's not human. "What is it?" He asks, and Danny looks uncomfortable.
"I can't tell you that." He says, shifting on his foot like he's scared of someone seeing it. "But please be careful with it. Treat it like it's extremely fragile."
When Bruce gets home, he puts it in an empty ring box and hides the box in the cave. He tries researching into what it is. he can't find anything concrete.
Everything comes to a head one day when Danny appears at the manor's doorstep one evening, soaking wet in the rain, and bleeding from the side.
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bruce and dick got some emotional incest going on
hmmm not sure i quite agree anon! i can see where that might be the case, as even i tend to harp on those co-dependency these two display sometimes, but i don't think emotional incest is what is going on there. for those that do not know what this term means, emotional incest is when a parent or primary caregiver begins to rely on their child like they would a partner for their emotional needs. it does not involve any sexual or physical intimacy, as that would be sexual abuse. while i do think what bruce and dick shared was something close to toxic, it was also how they in general functioned? idk that doesn't make sense. i'll put it like this- bruce never thought to rely on dick for emotional needs. in fact, i would argue he tried not to rely on anyone for his emotional well being, and this is what causes most of the divides and troubles in his life. however, dick being a naturally perceptive person, recognized how closed off bruce is/was, and took it upon himself to try and get bruce to open up more and be emotionally present instead of constantly shutting down and shoving people away. the whole "child of an alcoholic" sums it up neatly, imo, bc bruce never intentionally relied on or even asked for dick to help solve his problems. a lot of the bumps in their relationship came from the fact that he felt dick was getting too close or wanted to help bruce too much, which not only frightened bruce but i think also made him aware of how much he couldn't do without the help of dick pointing things out to him
emotional incest isn't quite the right term to describe them, imo, and i think when you get into a space where ppl are constantly talking about it and implying that sort of thing, it's easy to be convinced that that is what they have. it's important, however, to also look at how bruce and dick are doing currently/in the past current canon/past the batman and robin dynamic. one of the long-term affects of being in an emotionally incestuous relationship is being unable to set boundaries or even recognize what a normal relationship with others is like, and with the added context of this being a superhero/vigilante world, i would argue that they are both doing just fine without each other. obviously we have to account for the sheer number of times they've been in life or death situations and whatnot, but i think dick functions quite well on his own and with the others in his life, and bruce does, too. both are mentally ill, i think, but they are also coping pretty well imo
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I started writing this in the replies of a different post but quickly reached the word limit so I'm putting it here instead. These are my thoughts on across the spiderverse and they contain heavy spoilers. Please only read if you have seen the movie because it's the kind of movie that gets absolutely ruined by being spoiled.
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So the antagonists in both ITSV and ATSV have a lot in common.
Miguel and kingpin have the same motivation in each of their respective films. They both wanted to live a life that didn't fuck them over and they crossed through dimensions to try and make it happen.
They both fail to achieve their goal: kingpin's attempts to bring his family back are thwarted by the spiders, and the world Miguel enters literally falls apart around him.
Their actions have ramifications that further the conflict of the series. By creating his collider, kingpin gave the spot his powers, allowing the spot to wreck havoc through dimensions. Miguel's new dimension unraveling led him to believe in specific canon events that must happen to every spider person, and that any anomalies to his formula would cause the multiverse to unravel.
There's a pattern to be seen here, and while the next movie is likely going to focus somewhat on the conflict against the spider society, I think it would be cool if the conflict between miles 1610 and miles 42 followed a similar pattern.
Miles 42 lost his father, and 1610 showing up has proven to him there are other dimensions out there, including one where his dad is still alive, which would provide a motivation in line with the previous ones. Miles 42 is framed pretty clearly as an antagonist, meaning Miles 1610 as the protagonist will likely find a way to stop 42 somehow, meaning all that's left to see is the ramifications. I honestly don't know how it all will play out. Beyond the spiderverse could take this story in so many different directions and most of them would be satisfying enough for me.
The ultimate coolest move in my book would be to create a meta narrative of sorts where each movie has the same key elements that make up the story, but handle the conflict in three different ways; what if each spiderverse movie was an alternate version of the same movie? ITSV would be a man vs man conflict (kingpin pulled the spiders out of their own universes and miles has to defeat him to repair the damage done). ATSV would be a man vs society conflict, as miles is up against a society of other spider people who believe he's an anomaly who needs to be contained, destroyed, or forced into conforming to the spiderman formula. I predict that BTSV (at least miles' main arc) will be a man vs self conflict, showing miles a version of himself who behaves the same way as the villains he's faced so far, and having him reconcile with that.
The villains this series has given us have all been victims of circumstance, people who are trying to do what they can to get themselves out of a difficult or painful situation. What makes them villains is the choices they make in trying to get out. Kingpin, Miguel, and the Spot (and presumably Miles 42 but it's a bit too early to say) will stop at nothing to get what they want, and they don't care about the people they hurt along the way.
Destiny and canon want to put Miles through the ringer like every other spiderman, but Miles rejects these very concepts in the climax of ATSV. Miles chooses to reject these ideas, trying to find an alternate path much like the antagonists. But Miles has a different motivation: in addition to making a better world for himself, he's fighting to make a better multiverse for all of the spider people.
I'm not a super active writer, but a writing adage I've picked up over the years is that protagonists ask questions and antagonists give answers to those questions. Its up to the protagonist whether to believe if those answers are true. In BTSV Miles' question would be "Am I a villain too?" Miles 42 answers yes by showing our Miles that at the very least, he is capable of becoming a villain. If Miles rejects that answer, he will no doubt do so by remembering that unlike the villains he's faced, he's fighting for something greater than himself.
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okay enough of the rants im logging off last thing ill say is that identity politics is largely a disease 👍 its point with the extremism its been taken to in part due to cia postmodernism being to wreck class conciousness though the wokeificstion of fragmentory policies and identity👍 bipartisan politics also serve to divide the country (all countries) incresingly so that people cant come together👍 having the worlds most stupid useless fragmentory identity politics discussions doesnt help it keeps us from coming together and focusing on real shit 👍wars pit the resources and labour of the working class against each other for the benefit of the rich 👍"im iranian youre american, you and i have more in common with each other than our governments with us, and our governments are more similar etc etc."👍 if racism stopped and if sexism stopped and if classism between the working classes (which, everyone has forgotten what the term "working class" means, its not abt economic bracket, low, middle, and higher class can all b working class yes including the doctor whose making a lot of money bc it is the exhange of labour for wages) stopped the working class could stand united not divided aginst the system 👍differences in race, class, and sex have Always been used to pit the working classes against each other, and to give people a sense of "well at least were better than Those people" (opressed middle class disdain for lower class, opressed mens disdain for women (at least they have power over someone!), opressed peoples disdain for other opressed peoples)
i may bitch and complain about kinds of people on here bc its a way for me to get my frustrations out, but ultimately i do think it is vitally important to have hope and to try to bring unity between people. ultimately i think it is unity which is the only way this planet, species, and every other species on this planet may see a better futute. ultimately, more than anything, i think despite everything we, for everyones sake, have to understand the deep interconnected nature of everything, have to truly understand that one cannot be free without all, and have to try to build bridges.... it is very easy both as both members of the opressive and opressed class (and yes most ppl occupy both in some way) to fall into disdain, fear, and wants of separatism. ive done it plenty myself and at times i still do. trying to "be better" is absolutely exhausting. but. i do truly believe that we have to try. i do not believe hatred is forever. not classism not racism not sexism not abelism not anything. it is not a curse people are doomed to from birth. people can change, we all can. we at least have to try
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