#not saying you have to ship the queer ship but don’t send death threats to people that do

[marysblo0d]

How some of you sound

#not saying you have to ship the queer ship but don’t send death threats to people that do #it’s called being a decent human being #at the end of the day we are all losers and nerds obsessed with the same piece of media #this fandom makes me feel crazy sometimes #hotd #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenicent #pro rhaenicent #house of the dragon #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #hbo got #sansa stark #margery tyrell #Sansaery #Daensa #briensa #anti incest #anti targcest #memes.

[wowevenmoreloveonearth]

You know what? I have become a gaylor sympathiser

This is going to be a long post, sorry! Please read the full post before even thinking about commenting.

Over the past few days I’ve seen a few posts on my dash about taylor swift and her fans that have left a bad taste in my mouth.

I know that a lot of people think that some fans of her are “trying to make her gay” and I just wanted to put the record straight and defend some people after actually looking at what’s going on. And I know I’m probably opening myself up for tumblr’s poor reading comprehension but before I start I’m going to say this:

I do not think taylor swift is a lesbian

Ok? Now let’s have a conversation.

First of all from what I’ve seen most of the fans who talk about Taylor swift and queerness do it from a point of literary analysis and learning queer history. This is a huge part of the community and lots of people have said that they never would have learnt so much about queer history without reading taylor swift’s works through a queer lens.

Adding on to that point, it seems a little hypocritical for the gay site which loves queer readings of books, tv shows, songs, musicals, films etc to be bullying a pretty small group of people who are mainly doing queer readings of lyrics. Especially when those people get near constant death threats. Instead of bullying these people (who don’t think or do what you think they think and do) why don’t you go outside and think “does this affect me? No. Do I agree with them? No. Am I going to cyber bully them because of this? No.”

Secondly, for the people who believe that any speculation on a real persons sexuality is 100% wrong. I used to think this too but I have changed my mind a bit about this recently after stopping and thinking about it properly. I’m not trying to change your mind at all I just want you to stop and think for a minute.

If you only get mad when speculation is queer in nature, then maybe think about that for a minute. Why is it totally wrong to think a person might be queer. We probably do it in our daily lives with people we know and they likely do it with us, back in the day that’s how queer people found each other-by speculating on sexuality. Would you be upset if you found out someone that you know thought you might be queer? I wouldn’t, maybe you would but if you would, why? Why is it terrible to think someone might be queer (this is NOT about hounding a person to admit to being queer like shawn mendes, this is just thinking in your head and on your small blog that the person will likely never see). Also this is literally the website where we talk about historical (real people) being gay even when they would have never said something to the equivalent.

An addition to this point before people start saying in the comments is that this is NOT the same situation as with kit connor. The issue there was people assuming that he was straight and taking that role away from a queer person. Speculating that he was queer was the opposite of what happened in that situation. So this is not an example of what happens when you speculate queerness.

Final things to say:

1) don’t believe every post you see with someone looking insane about taylor swift being gay, a lot of them are fake.

2) before anyone says “they should listen to real queer artists instead” most of them very much do. There’s a lot of fans of Hayley kiyoko, girl in red, Janelle monae, tegan and sara, zolita, kehlani etc.

3) there are some queer flags that are there. Sorry but there are. Hairpin drops, lavender, the ladder, flag colours, songs about women, friend of dorothy reference. Whether they are intentional is a different matter.

4) shipping real people is not what is happening for the majority of the people in the community. Also this comes back to queer vs straight again. Plenty of swifties ship taylor with men she’s been seen with and no one goes into their inboxes and sends death threats even when they are the ones making taylor swift all about the men she may or may not have dated.

5) taylor swift has never stated her sexuality. I know this may be hard to belive based off of how some people act, but it’s true. She has made vague statements which could have many meanings but she has never clearly stated anything. When gaylors get upset with taylor it is not because she said she is straight, it’s because they are getting death threats and doxxed and she seems to either be unaware of it (which is unlikely given how she seems to be a little terminally online) or she doesn’t care enough to tell her fans to stop.

6) if she does explicitly say she’s straight then there will probably be disappointment in her use of queer history and flags and her potential queer erasure (as we saw with lavender haze, with straight women describing their relationships as lavender) and centring herself in queer spaces (like the you need to calm down music video) but no one will be angry that she’s not gay. And a lot will probably be grateful that she actually explicitly stated for the record to absolve any confusion. The main issue would likely be other fans ramping up the death threats and bullying.

In conclusion: these people who do queer analysis of Taylor’s work are not trying to out her or make her gay etc. if you don’t understand it that’s fine it’s clearly not for you and you can go quite easily without seeing any of it. It’s not illegal to read works through a queer lens and if it means more people know about queer history then I think that’s a very good thing.

I changed my mind after looking at what a lot of people are actually saying rather than what people perceive them to be saying and maybe you will too?

Just be kinder to people online please and if you don’t like what people are saying block them and do not engage!

#taylor swift #long post #gaylor #gaylor swift #friend of dorothea #friends of dorothea #lgbtqia

[iwanthermidnightz]

Ahhh did you see the new rolling stone gaylor article ?? I'm so impressed.

When Taylor Swift released the long-awaited rerecording of her genre-leaping album 1989, fans eagerly pored over vault tracks, theories of double albums, and limited edition vinyl releases that could predict Swift’s next re-record. But for Gaylors, a dedicated Swift fanbase that’s existed for over a decade, Swift’s prologue and a mention of her feelings surrounding speculation about her love life have dampened what should have been an exciting release.

Thinking about the 24-year-old she was when 1989 was released, Swift writes, “I swore off dating and decided to only focus on myself, my music, my growth, and my female friendships. If I only hung out with my female friends, people couldn’t sensationalize or sexualize that — right? I would learn later on that people could and people would.” Many users online interpreted that line as a subtle callout to Gaylors, supporters of the niche theory that Swift is queer or leaves queer messaging in her songs. But several members of the Gaylor community tell Rolling Stone they’re actually not convinced the callout is about them — and are receiving targeted and homophobic harassment in the process.

For those not extremely online, Gaylor is an unproven theory that Swift is queer and leaves messages alluding to past relationships in her work, a fan theory that originated on the blogging site Tumblr in the mid-2010s. It is also the fan name for groups of people who believe there are queer interpretations of Swift’s songs. (While Swift has been a vocal ally and advocate for LGBTQ+ rights and representation, she has never publicly commented on Gaylor and has only been in public relationships with men.) Gabriela, a 27-year-old Gaylor, tells Rolling Stone she doesn’t believe Swift’s prologue is about the Gaylor fandom specifically, but she’s frustrated at the use of the word ‘sexualize,” which she says has long been co-opted by fans who think Gaylor is harmful or inherently rude.

“I think it’s a call-out yes, but more to the media at large, rather than just about the Gaylor subset of her fandom, which is only a small piece of her complaint. [Swift] doesn’t want to be assumed to be in a sexual, romantic relationship with anyone she is seen next to,” Gabriela says. “Hetlors [those who object to the Gaylor discourse] are cherry-picking to make it about her ‘shutting down gay rumors.’”

As an internationally beloved artist — one capable of selling more movie tickets than Martin Scorcese and convincing an entire fandom to rebuy her music her way — Swift professes an unusually close relationship with her followers. The lyricist often hides clues in her work and visuals, encouraging fans to decipher what coded messages and hints she’s leaving behind. But Swift has also verbalized how upset slut-shaming and assumptions about her love life make her. Anna, a 23-year-old Gaylor who uses they/them pronouns, agrees that the prologue wasn’t about Gaylor specifically but says they do think all Swift fans online could operate with more boundaries.

“Of course, I’m a little annoyed that people are pulling one or two lines of the prologue out of context and using it as a justification to be homophobic and send death threats to my friends, but I don’t think Taylor is at fault for people misconstruing her words and I think she has every right to call out things that make her uncomfortable,” Anna tells Rolling Stone. “’Shipping’ culture across the fandom seems to have gotten really ugly recently on all accounts. I’ve seen people speculate on her sex life, openly and graphically, track her location, insinuate that she wants/has children and just overall cross a lot of boundaries. It may be unpopular for me to say it, but I do think members on all sides needed to be put in their place a little bit.”

All of the Gaylor fans who spoke to Rolling Stone expressed that beyond the prologue, much of the reaction to them as a group has stemmed from a lack of understanding about why the fandom exists and has lasted for almost a decade. Liv, 26, says that the Gaylor community has been a large part of her life — it’s even how she met her current boyfriend. And she tells Rolling Stone the identity has allowed her to have a deeper understanding of Swift’s lyrics.

“It’s always fun for me to think about what inspired a song. So even if it’s not what happened in Taylor’s life, it’s interesting for me to think about a song through a queer lens, because I feel like it adds a lot of layers that a song about a guy might not have,” Liv says. “And I don’t really know any straight people who are that deeply obsessed with Emily Dickinson.”

The X account @gaylornews has over 12,000 followers. The admin behind the account declined to include her name but tells Rolling Stone Gaylor isn’t just a fun internet conspiracy theory, but means a lot to the community.

“Analyzing her lyrics through a queer perspective is more about defying heteronormative narratives and finding representation and not about invading Taylor’s privacy or sensationalizing her personal life,” the account owner says. “Gaylor is about queer people finding a safe space which straight people not only find but already have everywhere, is about all the things you never learned about yourself, is about feeling seen and genuinely understood.”

Regardless of what people think the prologue is about, Gaylors are worried about one thing: targeted harassment from more mainstream fans of Swift. In an April 2023 report from social media tracking firm Graphika, researchers found that Gaylors made up nine percent of active Swift fans on social media, but are often exiled and isolated from neutral fan spaces. The study also found that anti-Gaylor accounts, also referred to as Hetlors, “play a key role” in how the theory is presented to mainstream audiences and often misrepresent commonly held Gaylor beliefs, which can lead to the harassment and doxxing of neutral Gaylor accounts. Each of the Gaylors who spoke to Rolling Stone detailed targeted harassment, hate speech, and homophobia they’ve received online, something they all believe Swift would stand against.

“I think that people who are against Gaylors think we’re way more serious about it than we are. A lot of the things we say are jokes or ideas or possible theories,” Liv says. “And at the end of the day, none of us know what the truth is about her personal relationships. And we shouldn’t want to because [Taylor Swift] is entitled to her privacy.”

(link)

#wow well done!

[zeroducks-2]

Freedom of speech but not freedom from consequences. Anti-censorship but we still don’t want to platform bigots 🫤 Coming from a neutral party, I think you could learn a lot from listening to all perspectives to avoid echo chambers. Form your own opinion instead of following a crowd. My opinion? Hate the person, not the ship. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover, but that is what the book cover is made for. I think it’s healthier if you and everyone else stopped trying to be antagonistic? How are you supposed to spread positivity if you’re always on the verge of angry ranting?

Okay I'm going to try and answer for the sake of the people who might read this kind of bs in their inboxes and be affected negatively by it, and maybe even feel like they're being unfair towards the very bullies which spend their energies harassing and insulting (and sometimes also doxxing and suicide bating) us.

Let's break this down.

1. "freedom of speech but not freedom from consequences" I can't even talk about some dark themes in fiction or my own personal history of real life abuse without getting termed here. Erotic art can't be posted almost anywhere at this point, and not just the kind antis dislike. Freedom is a construct on social media because ultimately these spaces are owned by someone, and you'll be kicked out if they don't like you.

2 "we don't want to platform bigots" no, absolutely we don't. Historically, giving a platform to bigots and hatemongers fosters hate, violence and censorship. Also I have no power to platform or deplatform anyone, I'm just a guy on tumblr, so I don't even know what you're on about with this. If I had the power to decide, trust me that I would kick the terfs the fuck out of here anyways. And also the cowards who hide under the anon cover to send hate and threats.

3 "listen to perspectives and avoid echo chambers" I'm over 30 and I've been a kinkster for most of my life. I'm queer. Among other things, history and queer history are in my field of studies. I didn't form my opinion here, I came here with one already. I listened to all the perspectives you might think of also because I was here when the rise of censorship and puritanism happened, and by the way you know who got deplatformed? The kinkster and the artists, surely not the bigots. I don't think I've ever seen an instance of an anti being blocked or termed for harassment, whereas blogs get blocked every day for having NSFW content.

4 "form your own opinion instead of following a crowd" again, do you really think I existed as a blank slate before creating this blog?

5 "my opinion is(...)" You sound like a Christian preacher and it gives me the heebiejeebies.

6 "it's healthier if you stopped trying to be antagonistic" sweetheart, we are being bullied every day. If you're someone who creates erotic art of any kind you're subjected to a ton of harassment, and if you create something which could be considered problematic, you get death threats. Suibating. Insults lathered with misogyny, transphobia, queerphobia, you get treated like a freak of nature and threatened to have your livelihood taken away. Or threats of doxxing and of deplatforming. And you might very well get your blog shut down. I'm going to stop being antagonistic when I'll stop being antagonized, and if you think that said bullying is justified and I should just suck it up - and I say this in the most antagonistic way possible - fuck off. Not one single ship or one single fictional character is worth the harassment of another human being.

7 "how are you supposed to spread positivity of you're always on the verge of angry ranting" What makes you think I want to spread postivity? No like, honestly. What makes you think that my purpose with this blog is that. I'm here to talk about my blorbos, and if this makes someone happy then good for them. If the fact that I'm opinionated and passionate about things bothers you, no one is forcing you to stay.

Your whole thing is a mix of victim blaming and fake neutrality which is not welcome on my blog. Please block me and go on with your life, I'm not interested in your empty platitudes.

To anyone else who's reading this, don't ever feel guilty for defending yourself and for fighting back against oppressive measures. There is never a good reason for harassment, and if you were subjected to it, it's in your right to be angry. No matter what p r o b l e m a t i c ship you posted about.

#Anon hate #Long post #'hate the person not the ship' dude what the fuck #Dislike the ship and block the tag. Don't fucking hate anyone #Weirdo

[tineteenieworld3]

TW talking about not fun things

Why are people so obsessed with people who ship a queer ship being nice about and not mistreating a straight ship? Like why are we expected to do that but they’re allowed to spew constant homophobia towards us?

Like shut the hell up. No, we don’t have to do shit, we can hate whatever the fuck we want. Stop expecting queer people to not ‘hurt the straights feelings’ because they don’t like their dumbass ship.

I’m sorry it rubs me the wrong way because why do we have to be nice and quiet towards a ‘canon straight ship’ like the worst we can say is that we don’t like it and it’s trash. But you guys can laugh at anyone for believing a queer ship would ever be canon over a straight one? You can mock and call people names and send death threats to gay people because of a ship? That’s cool okay got it. Forgot how sensitive straight people are and how they expect everyone to treat them with the highest respect because they are above us.

I’m so sick of this shit, I’m so so tired of the backhanded homophobia and trying to make a queer ship look less important than a straight one and then tell queer people they need to be nice because the straight one is canon. Shut up. Also, it’s not that serious, these are all fake people and we’re talking about fake things. The homophobia though isn’t fake in the slightest.

Us saying Mike and El are a bad couple means nothing. Or just any straight couple in any universe, this isn’t even specific to just here.

You calling a real person delusional for thinking a queer ship could ever happen is fucking homophobic. No one has to be nice about a straight ship if they don’t want to. Get over it, straightness isn’t superior and it doesn’t deserve more respect than queerness.

#Byler

[rose-fall]

Uhhhhh I had a weird dream?? So like. Rose Fall was an on going webcomic in this dream, so yay I started it in this not real scenario. And like, friends were reading it, and showed their friends (which is… veywgwyfwywgw /pos but like also eheguefuegeuegeu /you don’t gotta just cuz it happened in this dream doesn’t mean it has to happen for real I don’t wanna guilt anyone oh god- *that’s it, that’s the tone indicator) um anyway but I guess it went beyond just my friends and their circles cuz there’s this guy that was acting a lil strange and I guess he didn’t like Mike and Ashton? Like, as a ship? So like. He was like (and I’m paraphrasing here, he wasn’t this chill) “yo I know where you live, here’s your address, I know you’re all over this ship but I hate it I like this other one better, make that canon instead or I’ll kill you” and like. I can’t remember what ship he liked more, idk but that’s not important. What is important is that I literally had a dream where a guy sent me a death threat cuz I guess Mike and Ashton were too gay for him??? Like I remember him being like “I know Mike is canonically not straight (Mike’s omni) but he still has attraction to women, yeah? Uh, yeah I’d be much more comfortable if he was with this lady character instead so I can forget he’s queer. So if you don’t make that happen you die lmao” (again, I’m paraphrasing). Like, buddy I know you ain’t real but I just woke up and I got Emotions /neg. First of all, I’ve never had a dream where I got a stalkery death threat like aight, ok brain, not cool. Second of all, I’d say it’s silly to send someone a death threat over shipping but uh… y’know it’s. It’s happened before *thinks about a certain show I never watched but am aware of the fans threatening people behind this show that I shall not name*. Third of all, if you treat mspec characters, especially ones who have a binary gender and are dating someone of the “opposite” gender, as characters you can pretend are straight then no. Fuck you. Get the fuck out. Us multisexuals are not “just confused, there’s a good chance they’ll figure out they’re actually straight”. Like no fuck you, I hate you. I know there’s people like this and I don’t want them anywhere near me. I’m not less queer than those who’re strictly gay. I’m not “more straight” just cuz I can be attracted to women too. There’s no such thing. Anyway, fourth of all, I think I remember this guy like. Just hated Ashton? I can only guess it’s cuz he became a part of Mike’s life and “ruined any chances of Mike getting with a woman” (even tho they’re both open to trying out polyamory but y’know. If someone doesn’t like gay stuff I can imagine they’d not be aight with polyamory unless Mike “gets a ton of bitches” or whatever they cherrypicking bullshit they got. Idk man I can only guess, idk what my brain was on when it made this dream and forced it on to me lmao). Lastly, I’ve had worries about Rose Fall growing at least a small following and creepy gross people potentially finding it but. Death threats is a new worry lol. But I’m more awake now than I was when I started typing this so now it’s not seeming like that big of a deal to me. Sure I don’t want death threats over shipping especially if it’s some homophobe but. Idk now it feels silly now that I’m more awake to get worked up over this dumb dream. Ah well 🤷🏻, anyway comfort ocs Mike and Ashton go brrrrrrrrrrr :]

#text post #I might delete this later?? idk?? #death threat mention #homophobia mention #stalking mention #voltron tw #< I know I said I wouldn’t name it but other people’s well-being matters more #long post

[fratboykate]

papi i know you don’t like killing eve or shipping eve w villanelle but after 4 seasons they finally were together in the last ever episode and they killed villanelle

Bro, I’ve known how that show ends for like 2-3 weeks jfksjfkskfjd. Some of my friends and I have gotten to sit here and send posts of the theories and the “WE POPPING BOTTLES” type of posts while we’ve been over here like:

And look, you know me, I don't think queer characters need to be immortal and need to never be touched. Queer characters can and should be allowed to die in media and on screen. I also don't prescribe to the idea that every queer death is a BYG. Y'all *KNOW* how many death threats I've gotten for saying certain deaths aren't BYG...but this was simply beyond shitty fucking writing and absolutely a BYG. Then again that show has been consistently atrocious writing since season two so I didn't expect anything else from the finale.

Season One? A gold plated masterpiece.

Everything after that? Burn it with fire.

#i made a HELLA vague the other day of me just sitting here minding my business watching other people being wrong #or something like that #and it was about some INSANE post of a Stan legit being CONVINCED that they were endgame #and I was like OH YOU POOR INNOCENT CHILD YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATS COMING lol #ke #anonymous #answers

[musical-chick-13]

Okay, since nuance is apparently dead, here is something you all need to internalize:

Artists and creators do not owe you anything. They don’t owe you the ship you like being endgame, they don’t owe you a certain sound or a certain genre (for musicians), they don’t owe you a particular plot or idea, they don’t even owe you a good story.

You can get outraged at the message something sends (God knows I do). You can be disappointed that something went in a direction you didn’t want. You can argue that a character deserved better or that this pairing would have made more sense or that this artist was more effective during a certain era, or say that you wish actors/musicians had been presented with a vehicle that was better written. All of these are completely fine. (Also, because I know how y’all are: yes, if the making of the art involves harm/mistreatment of the people involved, that is also bad and should not happen. Plagiarizing someone’s writing is never okay. People should not be assaulted when making a movie or recording an album. Putting a white person in blackface to portray a black person instead of casting  a black person is unforgivable. Children should not be abused for the sake of creating TV. I am solely talking about what you, as an audience member, personally take away from a finished piece of art that you choose to engage with.)

But you do not get to say that you as a media viewer/reader/listener are “owed” anything. You do not get to say that a creator is singlehandedly responsible for you and your well-being or sense of self.

I shouldn’t have to explain why that’s dangerous or why it doesn’t ever stop with just the things widely considered to be objectively bad. The goalposts always end up being moved. Feeling “owed” something artistically is how you end up with creators getting sent death threats for having the “wrong” characters kiss, artists having their friendships and personal lives invaded because they aren’t dating the person you want them to date, people suicide-baiting musicians for switching genres, people harassing actors for playing a character they don’t like, queer authors feeling forced to disclose their identities against their will to prevent life-ruining backlash, and creators of all kinds self-harming or attempting suicide because they don’t feel like they can handle the pressure of everything their fanbase (or hatedom) is violently, vitriolically demanding of them.

“But that’s not what I mean! I would never do that!” You say. And maybe that’s true. (I certainly hope it is, not acting like that should be the default state of every person.) But you don’t get to perpetuate a general attitude that in many cases directly leads to actions that harm real people and then say you are not in any way part of the problem. No one person or group or ideology should have the power to make all the artistic demands. No one person or group or ideology should have the power to determine what ending or ship or genre or artistic statement or sound or aesthetic or story idea is “good enough.” When you concentrate power like that in respect to art, when you advocate for the censoring or policing of art, you put yourself dangerously close to, if not already on, the path to fascism.

Art that is not created by you is not for you. You are not entitled to any artistic decision by any creator. You do not ever have the right to issue death or rape threats, engage in suicide-baiting, doxx people, out their queer identity, slander them with baseless accusations that could prevent them from working (or try to get them arrested as a direct result of this slander, which, yes, I actually have seen happen), sexually harass them, or threaten their family. No, not even if you hate their art.

If you hate a piece of art to the point where it causes trauma or successive nervous breakdowns, makes you hate yourself, inspires an impulse to self-harm, or enrages you to the point where you think harming other people is okay, you need to walk away from that piece of art. If there’s a fandom, you need to not interact with it. You need to get off social media. You need to stop creating content in response to whatever the piece of art is. Take it from someone who has personally been in that position before. There is not a single person alive who can take care of everyone who tangentially interacts with them or the things they create (especially when they don’t even personally know 99% of the people who do so). To suggest that anyone can do that, or that it should be their responsibility to do that is a fundamental misunderstanding of how humans work. No one should be faced with that pressure. And the existence of that pressure is how we get people refusing to create at all. Even the “““good””” creators. Because at a certain point, people are going to see what’s expected of other artists and decide that it isn’t worth it.*

*I certainly didn’t. If you’ve followed me during the last few years, you know that I used to be a singer professionally. I don’t sing anymore.

When you issue universal ultimatums, when you try to control the creative process, when you start conflating art with a sense of personal entitlement, it never only affects the “““bad””” artists. And the sooner we realize this, the better.

#salty mc13 is salty #there have been. MANY. things that I got mad at because I thought it was artistically ineffective or sent a terrible message #but those people did not OWE me what I was looking for. they did not OWE me a certain direction or conclusion. #they did not owe me a good message. they did not OWE me anything because /I DIDN'T MAKE IT/ #there's one thing I'm thinking of specifically. where a ship got made canon involving a neurotypical conventionally attractive man #and a not-conventionally-attractive-women who was heavily implied to be suffering from mental illness #and then he like. left her for a thin conventionally attractive neurotypical woman #I am still mad at that creator. It really bothered me. I started to convince myself that this was proof that no one could ever love me #(a not-conventionally attractive mentally ill woman) the way that I was. and I had to walk away from it. I had to put it down and break ties #and stop engaging with other people who liked it and spend my time on other things. #because I had to take care of myself. and my life was better and I FELT better (about myself and just in general) after I did that. #and guess what: that creator still didn't owe me anything. they were not in charge of my mental health and they were not in charge of my #self-perception or how I engaged with the world after being so viscerally disappointed #I can (and did. and probably will in the future) argue about the message that piece of media sends. but my mental health had to be #managed BY ME AND MY DOCTORS #tw: self harm mention #tw: rape mention #tw: suicide mention #fandom #the nature of art #how tf do I tag this #let's see if I can post this without getting murdered #behold! a creation! #you can probably guess what this is in response to #(just for the record: I am also mad and not defending the thing this was in response to. y'all just get REALLY scary in terms of how you #talk about/interact with/treat creators in general)

[nellygwyn]

The Sarah Z thing is about how, back in March, the aforementioned SZ (a breadtuber) decided to massively punch down and mocked some queer proshipping merch made by a small queer creator. (It was a 'proshipper!' pin made for the Hannibal fandom. Made by older queers, it featured the rainbow meat emojis (a combo used in the Hannibal fandom to symbolise positivity and the belief that nobody deserves to be harassed for fictional content), the gay pride flag, and pink triangles, a gay pride symbol. and PROSHIPPER in big letters.) When she was asked to be more mindful about how she was using a huge platform to encourage mockery and attacks on a very, very small queer business, at a time when fandom as a whole was (and is still) dealing with the harassment caused by a rise in respectability politics/purity culture ('anti' ideology) - and especially in March, when it came to light that a fandom minor had committed suicide after repeated prolonged harassment -, SZ doubled down, and joined in with the harassment the merch creators were getting over the pink triangles on the pin. When informed this was only adding to the toxic problems in fandom, her response was that 'she wasn't involved in petty ship drama', 'stop being so online' and 'lol, go touch grass'. The latter was deemed particularly insensitive due to some people being UNABLE to 'go touch grass' due to being stuck indoors due to global pandemic lockdowns. Things obviously got pretty heated around this point bc SZ, big platform and insensitive (at BEST behaviour), small creators on blast. And of course, everyone trying to correct her or did not agree with her was 'bullying' her. (Yes, there was definitely harassment. It did not extend to the death threats, doxxing and suibaiting that was directed at the merch creators she put on blast. (Not all harassment is created equal.) She didn't deserve harassment, bc nobody deserves to be harassed. Did her own behaviour definitely suck? YUP.) She has never apologised. Anyway, today SZ made a monetised video about how she was 'bullied' and is thus profiting off of the suffering she helped endorse with her bad behaviour back in March. Whilst also stating that she hasn't been involved in fandom since the 2010s (...so has no idea what she's talking about when it comes to the present rise in anti culture???). It's causing a stink on twitter for being biased, claiming to be 'above' fandom issues whilst profiting off of them, and misrepresenting the facts. And it's raked up the shit from March all over again.

Um, so I don't support harassment or anything of that kind but I will say that using the pink triangle in the context of FANDOM is uhhhh. In poor taste, to put it mildly. Even if you are a queer person, I just find that weird and gross. Like.....as a Romani queer person....that's bad. And I'm sorry the people who created it, who no doubt had good intentions, were harassed but just. The Holocaust is not the place to find your fandom pins. I'm sorry but it isn't. Maybe some proshippers should have had the wherewithal to say 'Hey, I love you but this isn't cool.'

Also, 'go outside'/'go touch grass' is not....literal. It just means 'get some perspective' and I think in this case, it was the right advice.

Sarah Z isn't perfect, and like I said, I have no skin in the anti/pro-shipper argument (and find some antis intensely puritanical) but this feels like a reach and an attempt to justify using imagery from the literal Holocaust in your fandom wars. As someone who has quite frequently had her words twisted online, I think this is what happened here with Sarah tbh. Sarah was like 'Just block teenagers who send you stupid shit' and a bunch of people were like 'So you think we should accept sexual harassment/suicide baiting if it's from a teenager????' which is changing the goal posts completely!

#yes lgbt people reclaim the triangle #but not for fucking fandom drama hello????

[itsclydebitches]

Real talk. I recall you saying, after Yang fell, that they BETTER confirm Bumbleby. What if they don’t? What’ll be your reaction?

Be severely disappointed, caution any friends who might want to get into the show, and probably write a stupid number of frustrated metas that include both snark and cursing, as is my wont at times lol. Honestly though, I think any "real talk" here should be in regards to how we shouldn't react. If bumbleby is never confirmed fans have every right to be upset, furious even, but that doesn't mean we can express that in harmful ways. What I won't be doing is sending death threats to the writers. I won't harass them through social media. I won't condemn every aspect of the show based on this, nor will I try to shrug the queerbaiting off as something that fans are "overreacting" to. Just like how right now we have a large portion of the fanbase insisting that Blake/Yang is canon despite the lack of a confirmation, I have no doubt that, in a hypothetical ending where they're never confirmed, those same fans will push the idea that head-touches and a single blush are the height of representation. The problem there is not their enjoyment of the ship, or their personal desire to come to those conclusions, but rather how pushing its supposedly canonical status put the responsibility onto other fans. Rather than criticizing RT for failing to follow up on the promises they made — both explicit in terms of talking up queer characters in RWBY and implicit in the coding — the criticism lands on fellow fans to accept what was given without complaint. Suddenly, the problem is not that writers teased a queer relationship and never confirmed it, the problem is that fellow queer fans are demanding better rep than their peers' headcanons.

So no harassment. No death threats. No wild claims about how this one aspect — however important — invalidates everything else we may enjoy about RWBY. No dunking on bumbleby fans for liking a clearly coded ship, cruelly rubbing in the lack of a confirmation. And on the other side, no criticizing fans who are upset at the lack of a confirmation, insisting that coding is enough nowadays and they should be satisfied. I have no doubt that a lack of a canon bumbleby will create a variety of intense emotions, including from me, but I think the above is the bare minimum we should strive for in regards to working through those emotions in a healthy manner.

#rwby #mymetas

[multismileee]

PSA: ACTORS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS,  YOU DO NOT KNOW THEM. (Hardcore “fans” need to be stopped)... RANT BECAUSE I AM LIVID!!!

I’m not on twitter so I didn’t even know about all of this, imagine my surprise when I get on tumblr, go through the 911 tag and see the absolute dumpster fire it is right now?

This is to the people who think they have the right to make “jokes” about literally ending an actor’s/actress’s career because of a tv show: Please grow tf up. 

People are literally accusing Oliver of queer-baiting, when he has literally no control over the direction of the show. Not only that but even if he did, that gives you no right to harass him. Imagine having a bunch of people threatening to end your career over something you can’t control? it’s disgusting and wrong in so many ways. You can prefer a ship as much as you want, but at the end of the day that’s all it is... it’s a FICTIONAL pairing between two FICTIONAL characters, and that gives you absolutely no right to harass and bully someone.

Also people bad mouthing Oliver for deactivating his twitter, like he just can’t win??? Mental health is important, and I can’t even imagine how he is feeling. I just know this isn’t the first time this happened and it literally sucks.

So in general- what should you take away from this unfortunate situation? 

Celebrities of all kinds (singers, actors, models etc.) share a lot of their life on social media but that doesn’t mean you know them, you only know what they let you. This has happened before in other fandoms I used to be part of and it’s so sad to see. People get too comfortable and think they’re entitled to being mean, when in reality you are not. They are still human at the end of the day, humans who have feelings and are more vulnerable because they’re exposed to so much more comments. Their feelings are valid, and just because they decided to do this career does not mean they signed up to be attacked, hated, sent death threats, stalked, have an invasion of privacy etc. 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE SOMETHING AND SEND IT. Think about it, would you say this if you were facing this celebrity face to face? Most likely no right, so don’t type it just because you’re hiding behind a screen. This along with understanding that celebrities have feelings too, there is so much hate in the world as it is so please think before adding more to it.

#PSA #911 #911 on fox #important talks #buddie #oliver stark #we love and respect oliver in this household #stop cyber bullying #do not harass people #treat people with kindness #mental health and wellness #celebrities have feelings too #we're all human #think before you type

[impatient14]

Not to be “annoying on main” but like most things here in the year 2020, a lot of the nuance and reason surrounding the fandom’s fight over Dean’s queerness is lost to the wily temptress that is extremity, and I want to throw some stuff out there in case anyone is thinking the same things and just needs to hear that someone else is too.

To my followers and anyone who dares look through my blog (honestly don’t recommend it), it’s obvious I’m someone who enjoys the Dean/Cas pairing. And when I say enjoy, I mean I absolutely get feral about a wide range of topics that involve their relationship, depiction, and reception. I’ve always kept my opinions within the confines of my blog, though, and I’ve never--not once in the decade of my life on Tumblr--gone into inboxes to send hate or even indirect someone with hate or drama on my blog. That shit just ain’t kosher.

That being said, some of the anti-destiel arguments out there have merit.

Like, for example, Destiel shippers not liking the show. Personally, I did like Supernatural originally, but I also recently recommended new watchers who came for Destiel to just watch certain episodes. I’ve stopped watching Supernatural several times throughout my Supernatural journey (which started in real time with season one), because the writing can be down right awful. There were lots of great examples of writing too, but it wasn’t consistent enough for me to keep watching in real time. So I'd watch a season behind on Netflix. At some point, things got bad enough (the bro-dependence, recycled or unimaginative plotlines, the terrible treatment and fridging of female characters) that I did keep coming back for Dean and Cas only (and honestly, it was sometimes only Castiel). 

Another worthy anti-destiel point for consideration is the fact that other than destiel shippers, a lot of people who watch Supernatural don’t care about Castiel. This seems to be correct. I’d wager to say that the vast majority of Supernatural watchers did not invest even a portion of time, energy, or emotions in Castiel that we did. That’s cool. I’ve been a casual viewer of a show and been blindsided by things that their fanon saw coming a mile away. Everyone has different perspectives, and the idea that Castiel isn’t integral to the plot when you remove the possibility of Destiel is absolutely correct.

However.

Why did they keep bringing him back? It’s true that he could easily be written out when his relationship with Dean is bro-ified, but his deaths never took until the end (and even then it didn’t). Sure, it could be “pandering,” but if only 1% of the Supernatural fandom ships destiel (as stated in one argument), it seems like a strange choice monetarily. Misha, as a series regular, wasn’t exactly giving out his services for free (eyyoo), so producers and the network wouldn’t give a second thought to the vitroil and threats creators and actors would get if Misha were written off. (Side note: I categorically *hate* the social media accessibility that lets people directly interact so negatively with creators to the point of dangerous conditions. It’s the most ugly and embarrassing side of fandom.)

It could be argued they kept bringing him back because they knew hellers and Cas lovers would continue to buy his Merch and what not, but I can’t imagine the small percentage of viewers who are invested enough in Castiel to buy his Merch would compensate for Misha’s annual salary. (But honestly, numbers aren’t my thing so *shrug*) But it could also be argued that the perceived destiel headache for creators, plus the retention of Misha’s salary, would be enough to get rid of him if not for a crucial role he plays in the show. Creators have repeatedly said that Cas’ whole character revolves around his relationship with Dean, so that means the writers felt that the Cas/Dean relationship was important to the fabric of the show--in whatever way you’d like to see it. Does that mean viewers have to see it that way? Definitely not. But that’s not the story the writers are telling you they’re writing--

Oh, that sounds familiar!

All the textual gay jokes, narrative devices, and creator interactions (not just Misha, but writers, producers, and other actors too) created the metaphorical pink elephant, not the shippers themselves. And to be told otherwise is some gaslighting bullshit. I agree some fans take it too far and freak out at the mere mention of a non-destiel reading, but the foundation for a destiel reading is based in text, not just in the shippers heads. The relationship between the Supernatural creators, actors, and fandom is undoubtedly toxic, which is why I think it makes it easier for them to deny various romantic interpretations of Dean and Castiel's relationship, but (and i hate to do it) in their defense, they definitely wrote enough into the text to justifiably claim Dean's a nohomodudebro. However, they've also written enough into the text to legitimately doubt (not definitively deny) his heterosexuality.

IMO (for the maybe two people wondering) Dean became bisexually coded in a very complicated conglomeration of a homophobic “its funny to be gay” kind of way, the chemistry between Jensen and Misha, countless production decisions, and Castiel’s growing and canonical love for Dean---which all makes the matter impossible to ignore. On more than one occasion the writers made choices that welcomed a destiel reading--not confirmed--but welcomed (which is, wait for it, queerbaiting!). I’d be shocked if no one read Dean as being queer coded and secretly in love with Castiel, who btw, is absolutely 100% romantically in love with Dean Winchester. The writers kept making decisions that fed hellers so well because Castiel is in love with Dean. It’s not just Misha who has confirmed it btw, but the writers themselves. You’re allowed to read it differently, just like destiel shippers read Dean differently than the writers have claimed, but you don’t get to tell other people they’re wrong--just like destiel shipping should never have gotten to the point were anyone who didn’t see destiel was reading the show wrong. However, the difference between saying Cas’ love is platonic and saying Dean’s love is queer is the difference between having zero textual evidence for a platonic reading of Cas’ love, and having lots of textual evidence for Dean’s heterosexuality. (Personally? My headcannon for Dean fluctuates between “so closeted he doesn’t even know he’s actually bisexual” and “very much aware he’s also into dudes but is pushing it down because : Winchester ™.” However, I’m more than happy to admit that my headcannon can’t be reasonably confirmed as fact. It can, however and like most headcannons within the destiel fandom, be comprehensively and intelligently argued to the point of exhaustion.)

The only reason to deny that 1.) it’s reasonable to read Dean as being queer-coded, not canonically bisexual, but queer-coded via textual and production decisions, and 2.) Castiel is romantically in love with Dean-- is if you’re someone who can’t give credit to the opposition just because they’re the opposition. Just because I hate Trump and think he’s the spawn of Putin’s asshole doesn’t mean I can’t admit he did *some* good work for criminal justice reform. The credibility of your argument goes to crap when you can’t admit when someone else has a good point- even if you don’t agree with their overarching theory or idea.

Obviously, the state of the Supernatural fandom is pretty much what it will be forever. Getting thousands of people to admit that its normal to find evidence to support an argument you don’t agree with (something philosophers do all the time because there is no such thing as truth and the world isn’t black and white and its shades of grey that make the rainbow bright and on and on and on), is definitely not in the cards for us. But, this is just me, throwing my altogether unnecessary opinion out there. 

(If you’re one of those people that like to troll people just for having an opinion and expressing it respectfully, please consider not doing that. I am but a baby in a trench coat.)

#destiel #destiel meta #destiel fandom #deancas #dean winchester #castiel

[too-much-tanuki]

Welcome to Pleiades Club! A discord server dedicated to being a safe, chill environment to make friends and hang out.

This is an adult server, although no nsfw roles or channels are accessible until you’ve been given a trusted role.

Our roles are self assignable! With the role menus you can give yourself roles by clicking an emoji react!

Our rules also strive to be reasonable, easy to follow and as least restricting as we can be. They are as follows:

1: No minors

Although there are specific nsfw channels, this is an adult oriented server. If you’re suspected of lying about your age, you’ll be muted until the matter is figured out.

2: Always be respectful

Disagreements happen, and I’m willing to let things play out to a point. If you want to delay that point coming on, remain respectful, don’t insult or degrade anybody for their opinion and don’t rage or vague about anyone you’re talking to.

3: Source any art that isn’t yours

This is to be respectful of artists. For picrews, if the name of the artist/picrew isn’t highly visible on the image, credit/link it.

4: No exclusionism or gatekeeping

No exclusion. This includes gatekeeping the use of queer and other reclaimed slurs. That being said, only refer to yourself and your community with reclaimed slurs. (Example: “queer community” is fine, saying stuff like “me and my fellow X’s” is also fine. Coming onto the server and being like “greetings f—s” isn’t okay.) Exclusionism includes aphobia, nbphobia, transmed and truscum rhetoric, panphobia, etc.

5: Keep conversations channel appropriate

If something applies to more than one channel, best bet is to go into whatever the conversation is mainly focused on. If something on the trigger list is part of the discussion, go to an appropriate trigger channel. When in doubt, just ask.

6: Don’t fight mods

While you’re allowed to question why things happened or why an action was taken, don’t use that as a chance to fight mods. You can have your point heard as long as you don’t push it.

7: No death threats, suicide baiting or harassment of any kind

We simply don’t tolerate that behavior here.

8: No antis / fanpol

We don’t support censorship here. We support curating your online experience, using tags and blacklists to your advantage and keeping yourself safe against topics that trigger you. We don’t allow arguments advocating for censorship/destruction of certain ships, characters, etc. Fiction impacts reality but it is not reality, and liking a ship doesn’t mean you condone anything irl. Do not harass or make comments about others ships.

A list of channels you’re given access to at first is below.

#rules

#announcements

#requests-and-questions

#botstuff

#intros

#triggers

#role-select

#general

#vent

#fandom

#creative

#shitposting

#queer-lgbtqia

#special-interest-talk

#promos

#positivity

#vent-2

#self-shipping

After being given the trusted role, there are multiple channels for content on our triggers list and multiple nsfw channels, among other miscellaneous things.

Right now we have extremely few members, and we really wanna grow! Considering tumblrs wonk with displaying posts with links in them, I can’t put the invite in the post, but please feel free to send an ask or DM for the link!

#pro ship blog #pro shipping #yancore #queer #fandom #discord

[kari-izumi]

I saw this dumb as fuck post going around saying oh if you talked about the fact that you liked *nc*st ships to people irl they'll think you're weird. And like?? First of all. If you talked about shipping at all 'normal' people will think you're weird no matter what because shipping culture has developed and flourished online, its an online subculture, where else is it supposed to go??? Second You don't randomly bring up what kind of porn you like in public??? To your family or at your work???? Like that is not the time place or the people. Not to mention being gay is illegal in majority of the world! Not everyone can talk about this stuff irl because it'd be a crimimal offense!! Third people irl, friends, have admitted to me that they like incest ships and I've been like yeah ok whatever and this was before i was proship. I was like people have different tastes i guess who cares. Its fiction. Its all fiction!

Genuine question but like why is the fandom space like this now? How have we gone from ship and let ship and being happy that ao3 is anti censorship to people policing each other like crazy rn. It makes me constantly feel so on edge

When I came back to fandom after a long hiatus, it was 2017...right as the VLD ship war was still riding to its peak and "SU Critical" had more content than the official SU tag itself. The first anti I ran into was named @thewoesofyaoi , who sounded every bit like the bigoted "Yaoi is icky" folks I remembered of yore. Imagine my surprise when the account claimed to be on the side of queer men.

My only guess is that a combination of TERF idealogy, the open nature of social media in general and the fact that content creators are more accessible than ever has led to this stuff being boosted more widely. But you're right that at the end of the day, normies not in fandom don't care. I knew some folks who worked on the SW sequels, one of who was a survivor of the Bosnian War and found the idea of Kylo being able to fuck off into the sunset with Rey absurd after all his sins. She's not an anti and as much as she hated Reylo* I doubt she'd be siding with the antis who think sending death threats over shipping is a-ok

It's a fucking mess.

*in her defense, she was the one having to sort the mail and came across more than one smutty fanart which is Fucking Awkward when you see the actors in the office. 😐

#fandom #anon asks

[homestuckexamination]

How are you so optimistic about Rosemary working out?

Honestly? I think because I don’t need to be Optimistic.

I was okay with the Epilogues when they came out, I actually enjoyed going through it, and found the story to be quite fascinating. And when HS^2 started I was super excited, and still AM to go through it! I have followed Pesterquest since day 1, and have seen the things the WP has put out- Their writing on each character and what makes them click, the fun they have handling them and characterizing them, and particularly the ending and some of the comments of the team, show how they like these characters and actually DO like the fans when, you know, we’re not sending them death threats? Yeah. 

They have even gone as far as to explicitly say “Hey, what we’re doing here is experimental, and we’re going to deal with stuff that will make the content not enjoyable to some? This is not the one only way canon can go, it is simply the route we’re choosing because we want to deal with this stuff and write something like this. None of our takes invalidate your own headcanons, and please keep continuing producing fan-content that diverges from our content if you are unhappy”, and as much as people keep talking about how ‘Post-Canon’ and ‘Dubiously Canon’ mean nothing, the acknowledgement of such a thing by Authors, specially solidified by also making Pesterquest, showing us of a Timeline where the Author Self-Insert is literally the one in control, and diverges and pulls them away from not just the Epilogues, but from Homestuck Canon at all? It is obvious that they care about exploration and creativity and they like a multiplicity of takes and ideas. But when you’re writing a story, you eventually have to settle. You cannot touch upon the topic of gender, for example, without having someone deal with gender. You cannot touch upon certain ships having kids, without having to confirm that hey, some of these characters are cis, too, and having babies. There is nothing wrong with exploration of adult life and these kinds of things leading to solidified canon, but they went the extra mile to reassure us that, these are their takes on their characters, and their experiences projected onto them in many cases, and you totally don’t have to share these same ideas (but PLEASE don’t be a dick about them to the authors, because in many cases that’s invalidating their own experiences as queer individuals and adults dealing with/having dealt with shit??? Yeah.)

So then I join a Discord Server and go into the tag, and I see people crying out that the writing itself of HS^2/The Epilogues is bad. That they’re irredeemably bad, that the authors are mean and trying to hurt others for shock value, ignoring everything positive there is out there, and I just cannot see it? I understand being upset at what some characters are going through, but that’s also all it is? It’s like “Oh no! Rose and Kanaya may be going through a rough patch”. And that’s... It. I want them to be happy, of course I do? I am a heavy RoseMary shipper. But I don’t need to be hopeful about anything here? I like the direction of the story, I enjoy the handling of the characters, yes, even the negative traits, because people make mistakes and do bad things, but on top of that, I have seen what the Authors have done with the characters before, and how they have addressed things in Pesterquest and I am not... Worried? I’m in for the ride and enjoying exploring someone else’s take. HS^2 has made me cry, with that heart-felt and gut-wrenching talk about Kanaya missing Rose in Meat, it has made be lose it, when Jade broke free from Calliope’s control, it has made me laugh so hard, with Dead Gamzee Body Shenanigans and Jade’s perfect eyebrow wiggle, it has shocked me, with sudden Pitch RoseRezi, with Jade and Rose’s secret child, in ways I never THOUGHT they would lead the story down. HS^2 is an intense and wild ride. It’s not perfect? Nothing is. But I think it’s good at what it does, and I just think a lot of people simply do not like what it does, and cannot healthily parse these feelings, and start to look for reasons WHY they dislike it, and twist the authors intent into something evil, and lash back, which then gets people to lash back at THEM and builds an air of hostility around fan and author.

In the end though, I just like what the Authors have SHOWN they’re aiming for, what they’ve DONE with the work in another context, and we’re literally only 200 pages into a story projected to last for five years, which will probably go longer knowing how Homestuck usually goes.

So I don’t have to be optimistic? I am a very optimistic and positive person, so that helps! But I never felt... Angry, disappointed or betrayed while reading any of the current content. Shocked, yeah! Upset that things were going on with some characters, oh absolutely! But not... AT the Authors for doing it? I like the kind of stuff they’re telling, and it has built all sorts of new ships in my head, new conceptions of characters, and set the base for a whole Multiverse of shenanigans in ways old Homestuck never managed to do for me. So far as I know from my experience, they’re cool people, and I want to see what they have planned.

#Homestuck #Rose #Kanaya #Epilogues #HS^2 #Homestuck^2 #RoseMary #Long Post #Longpost #HSE

[gascon-en-exil]

gascon, I don't have a question, I just wanted to say I really admire how much sanity and self-control you have. I really appreciate how despite having strong opinions, you never try to FORCE those opinions on everyone else the way modern fandoms do. Like for instance you hate Byleth, but you don't constantly scream at and harass fanfic writers who pair Dimitri/female Byleth for example. And I really appreciate how when creators don't make your gay ships canon, you don't send them death threats.

Not harassing people or sending death threats is a really low bar to clear though. I usually attribute that kind of behavior to teenagers who lack the emotional maturity to recognize that their actions reflect on them and have consequences even in the semi-anonymous space of the internet. There are some older outliers of course, but either way it’s not difficult to avoid insulting someone where they can see.

I think I also show my age when I don’t care very much if ships become canon, because prior to the 2010s it was just about unheard of in published media not expressly aimed at a queer audience for non-straight pairings to get that kind of endorsement. Slash shippers of past generations of fandom learned to thrive on subtext, and even when there started to be some explicit canon content it wasn’t always any better than the subtext, and sometimes a fair bit worse. Using Three Houses as an example I have never cared one whit about Byleth’s same-sex S rank options when the conversations are completely identical to the M/F versions making them come across as at best artificial and at worst nothing but an arbitrary switch in the game’s code that might as well have been dictated by the pairings the artist behind the S rank CGs was willing to illustrate. I have however had a lot to say about several of the subtextual M/M pairings, and there’s plenty of room to build on the likes of Dimidue and Ferdibert even if they weren’t expressly intended to be read as such by the developers.

#Fandom culture #Fire Emblem #FE16 #Fire Emblem Three Houses