#salty mc13 is salty

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Oh, not people calling Do Revenge a Trashy Teen Movie just because it centers around teenage girls. I am not letting y’all do this this time, not when this movie is so cleverly written and the plot points are so well-set up and the characters have sympathetic motivations for doing the things they do while also being genuinely flawed and having complicated relationships with each other. The creator of iconic show Sweet/Vicious did not put her whole heart into this for you to write it off just because you think this is an inherently cringe-y genre.

#do revenge #this isn't like ctrlz where I like it in spite of its Issues™ this is a GENUINELY EXCELLENT MOVIE #I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL #also...a high school au of strangers on a train??? INSPIRED #drea torres #eleanor levetan #salty mc13 is salty

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The existence of this Rosaline movie makes me so MAD, because SHE WAS NEVER IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH ROMEO. SHE TOOK A VOW OF CHASTITY, AND SAID THAT SHE WAS JUST GONNA NOT BE IN LOVE.

SHE. REJECTED. HIM.

SHE WAS NEVER INTERESTED IN BEING WITH HIM AT ALL.

And then they just...make a whole movie from her supposed perspective (which is loosely based on a book which...hoo boy we’ll get to that in a second), where the premise is that she’s jealous and wants to break him and Juliet up? That she’s so in love that she has to win him over again? (Also, how do they justify her knowing that they’re together? The entire point is that no one knows Romeo and Juliet are in love?? I know this is an adaptation, but Jesus Christ.)

WHY DID YOU PICK THIS CHARACTER. TO HAVE THIS STORY WITH. THE WHOLE POINT OF HER CHARACTER IS THAT SHE CHOOSES NOT TO BE WITH HIM. THAT’S WHAT OPENS THE DOOR TO HIM MEETING JULIET. IF ROSALINE IS DEEPLY INTO ROMEO, THE ENTIRE PLAY DOESN’T WORK.

Are we saying that she was just “““playing hard to get”””? That she was toying with his heart for fun? That when she told him no, she really meant “yes”?? I THOUGHT WE LEFT THAT BEHIND OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST DECADE, I THOUGHT WE DECIDED THAT WAS BAD???!!?

Don’t even get me started on the book this is based on, where that general premise is that Rosaline is just an Innocent Average Girl, and her cousin who is Beautiful™ and vOLaTiLeLY uNsTAbLe and cRaZy comes and “takes” her poor unsuspecting boyfriend who is completely blameless for his own terrible behavior away from her while being called a “slut” the whole time. (I doubt much of this carried over into the actual movie, because that’s being billed as an ironic rom-com, and I highly doubt ANYONE would try to make that genre work while keeping this premise 100% intact.)

WHY WOULD YOU EXPAND THIS CHARACTER LIKE THIS. WHY. WE STUDY THIS PLAY IN SCHOOL AS AN EXAMPLE OF LITERARY STRUCTURE AND POETIC LANGUAGE AND FORESHADOWING AND HOW TO WRITE A TRAGIC NARRATIVE AND FOR WHAT. FOR PEOPLE TO NOT TAKE AWAY ANY OF THE INTENDED MEANING FROM THIS PLAY???!?!?!? I AM SCREAMING SO HARD I WILL BREAK THE EARTH’S CRUST UNTIL I AM SUBSUMED INTO HELL.

If you’re going to adapt something, you’ve gotta make it clear that you have some significant understanding of the original work. Retellings are fine! They can even have different functions or deconstruct tropes or be unexpectedly edgy! But it’s 1000% obvious when you don’t have any knowledge or engagement with the source material, and that is a problem. It’s ignorant, it’s lazy, and everyone involved deserves better.

#also like...juliet has been praised as a compelling and well-rounded theatrical heroine with clear goals by literary scholars for a LONG #time. you don't get to just...ignore that and say 'lol nope she's just cRaZy instead' #am I a LITTLE sensitive when it comes to people adapting shakespeare?? maybe. but also I don't care. #is it just because people are thirsting over That One Guy?? is that it?? is that why this movie was made???? I hate it here. #ANYWAY you want an actually GOOD expansion of rosaline's character that gives her Secret Feelings For Someone that she can't say #out loud because of a JUSTIFIED narrative reason and also gives her a well-developed #tentative-allies-to-lovers romance story watch still star-crossed #(which is also apparently based on a book. which I sadly have not read. maybe it'll be the next thing on my reading list) #GOD this is the 'lady macbeth is a stoic badass who never really loved her husband' all over again but like. in the opposite direction #UGH after juliet did the same ''she was just playing COY and HARD TO GET' thing too and I hate it #WHY CAN'T WE JUST HAVE WOMEN REJECT MEN? WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO WRITE??? #we could EVEN have a story about rosaline GENUINELY NEVER FALLING IN LOVE because she doesn't want to!! #wow shocking I know! #okay I'm done now #sorry #salty mc13 is salty #anti rosaline movie #idk how the fuck to tag this #romeo and juliet

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I understand the need to complain, so 7 and 12 for that violence ask game!

Thank you for your solidarity, I appreciate it. :)

7. What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

I answered this here. But I'll talk about another one. Ava from LoT. Like the previous answer, she was originally just kind of there to me. But I felt like she kind of took over the show, and I wasn't really happy with the development regarding her relationship with Sara (and apparently they decided they had to destroy Sara's friendship with Rip to make this ship happen? or something?), but I liked the other characters enough to just go, "Eh, not for me" and move on.

And then there were just...too many things I saw that bothered me. People tended to act like anyone calling Ava out was inherently...bad? I never really even saw a specific reason for this, it just seemed like people didn't want to admit a character in their preferred ship could make mistakes or be wrong. There was such a horrific level of biphobia I saw regarding Sara, too (which, big surprise, eventually spread to other characters who people wanted to be confirmed as not being straight onscreen). And like I mentioned before, Sara and Rip's working relationship got caught in the crossfire, and the things I saw from too many stans of this character about how horrible Rip was for basically...daring to ever be traumatized? Or how little sympathy they had for the show killing off a grieving, deeply hurting man with a thinly-veiled death wish/suicidal ideation just...really created some not-great associations regarding this character in my brain.

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them?

Lmao.

So Idk if y'all know this but I REALLY love Cersei Lannister, yeah, shocking, I know. I've talked about her at length, but she's my Ultimate Fave so I can't NOT mention her here. Her interior emotional world is so rich and layered that I learn new things about her (and, very frequently, about my own relationship to my mental illness) every time I think about her. All of her choices make sense narratively in accordance to what we know about her, even if they aren't good ones. Her mental illness and trauma seen as a tragedy worthy of sympathy, and it is her refusal to constructively deal with them and her insistence of externalizing her pain that leads to her horrible behavior toward others, not the presence of the mental illness or trauma itself. And like...yeah, we weren't supposed to root for her (even though I did because I'm me, lol), but we were supposed to feel for her. And she was allowed to continue to exist in the narrative. For better or worse, her story still mattered and was still worth telling, and, Idk, it was the first time I'd ever seen that being afforded to a mentally ill character. She processes everything in a very ugly way, that's not societally-palatable, and I cannot begin to tell you how utterly refreshing that was. She's capable of great love, but that love is tinged with all the negative and deeply unhealthy things she's held onto. She's a villain, but she is so clearly still a hurting person under there, grieving for all the things that were denied to her. Everything she does can be tied back to an overwhelming, all-consuming desire to Avoid Being Hurt Again. She keeps going out of spite. Her paranoia is understandable, but she deal with it in increasingly unhelpfully hostile ways. She flips between being cold and angry and sad and impulsive and even, occasionally, soft, and unlike usual ""evil queen"" archetype characters, she feels so much. She thinks love is literally being as close to same person as someone else as humanly possible. SHE KILLED A WHOLE MASS OF PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO RUIN HER, GOOD FOR HER. She's fascinating.

In the interest of saying something that's NOT repeating myself for the billionth time: Martha Jones from Doctor Who. Truly the most competent companion The Doctor ever had. She didn't suffer nonsense, she was INCREDIBLY resourceful and intelligent, she extended compassion to everyone she met, even those who could (or did) easily pose a hostile threat. She was the only companion in all of RTD or Moffat-era DW to leave completely on her own terms and break away from a lifestyle that was hurting her. The characters I love don't generally tend to be people I'd want to be like irl, but as a teenager, I wanted to be her when I grew up, and I still do. (Sadly, people are racist. And they couldn't get over the fact that she wasn't her predecessor, who was half of a fan-favorite ship involving the conventionally attractive white man. I'm still mad, I'll always be mad.)

I Choose Violence asks

#tw: suicidal ideation #multi t(ASK)ing #salty mc13 is salty #light of the west and my life #the brightest star in the universe <3

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SOOOOO interesting to me how a (white) male character being fucked-up is automatically equated to him having depth and complexity, while a female character being fucked-up causes people to automatically assume she cannot possibly have those things.

#hint: it's the *misogyny* and it's not actually interesting at all #I woke up salty and thinking about a certain dark-haired manga/anime lady today #I need to think about something else. if I spend too long on this subject I'm going to end up going on a Character Rant™ about her #salty mc13 is salty

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I’m...every day. Every. Single. Day. I get closer to making that video essay that will get me sniped.

#the essay in question is. of course. 'the ending to [redacted] really uh. wasn't actually that bad. if was perfectly serviceable actually' #ugh I need to find that thing I wrote on how [fan favorite character] is also a deconstruction of 'the chosen one' and that's always been #the point. and like. WERE there characters who I think had shitty endings that should have been different? yeah! #my son with ptsd who genuinely redeemed himself should have survived. the way a certain red-wearing fire priestess's death was handled #was um...really weird and rushed. there ARE complaints I feel like you can make. but they sure aren't the ones that the fandom at large #wants to complain about. my god I'm so tired. #and STILL. even taking my complaints into account. once again. the ending was fine. I sincerely and genuinely believe that. #ugh maybe I WILL make the video essay and just risk death I have a lot to say and I'm getting REALLY annoyed with people trying to #downplay all the cool things this show did and having a superiority complex over it (and indirectly calling remaining fans stupid) #ANYWAY -_- #salty mc13 is salty

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6, 7, 8, 10, 13?

YES THANK YOU. BLESS YOU.

6. Which ship fans are the most annoying?

Oh, God. Um. Most of the popular ones, if I'm being honest. There are a bunch of different ways I could answer this, from "it's everywhere" to "people misunderstand this canon dynamic" to "people make disgusting bigoted comments toward another, '''in the way''' character" to "most destructively moralistic" so I'll talk about the fanbase that historically has encompassed all of these, which is. The J*hnlockers.

I don't think I can EVER explain how utterly unhinged (derogatory) this fandom was when the show was airing. People straight-up labeling their analyses as a "conspiracy," convincing others that there was a Super Secret Actual Finale Episode that would "fix" their ship not being canon. They paired the main villain up with a character who didn't even exist in canon because doing anything involving the women was, presumably, too much to ask. The absolutely horrendous things they would say about the female characters, ESPECIALLY to fans of them who were minding their own business. (Also, they called one of the gay co-creators "actually a straight man" for not canonizing this ship which is completely and utterly WILD to me.) Genuinely there was NO space more unsafe fandom-wise that I have EVER been in. I cosplayed Irene for a con one time and, though luckily nothing happened, I was AFRAID FOR MY LIFE THE WHOLE TIME. Like. The level of vitriol and misogyny and biphobia (I'm not even going to get into that one) was UNREAL. To the point where genuinely I hope we never get new content of any kind so I don't have to think about people who act like this ever again.

7. What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

...........at the risk of getting murdered. MCU Steve. He was just kind of. There. To me. I didn't particularly care about him because he read to me as "generic good guy" which isn't an archetype that particularly resonates with me, but...then the fandom just. My God. Saying that EVERYTHING he ever did was right, that NO ONE had any points when they questioned him, that he EPITOMIZED goodness in a way no other character did ever, that anyone who liked Tony (or anyone who was ever perceived as being in Steve's "way" about anything, don't get me started on how people treated Sharon) was A War Criminal Apologist Irl and was Singlehandedly Upholding Every Type of Oppression, like it was. SO annoying. I went from indifference to borderline-hatred out of spite.

8. Common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

GOT SEASON 8 WAS NOT THAT BAD, GOT SEASON 8 WAS NOT THAT BAD, GOT SEASON 8 WAS NOT THAT BAD, GOT SEASON 8 WAS NOT THAT BAD, GOT SEASON 8 WAS NOT THAT BAD, GOT SEASON 8---*I am forcibly removed from the building*

(On a more, uh...eloquent note, Lady Macbeth is not a badass gender-binary-shattering Girlboss™ femme fatale, she is a complete mess struggling with layers and layers of psychological issues that she does not let herself process, as well as a HELL of a lot of internalized misogyny. I love her, too, but this creation of her into some sort of suave or cool monarch lady genuinely baffles me. But then again, this play was my Capstone Research Project my final year of college and I wrote a 50-page paper on it, so maybe I'm a little too invested in how people present her, lmao.)

10. Worst part of fanon

Tbh, everyone who insists that two characters [usually (cis, white, abled) men] MUST be in romantic love because they care about each other. Like...don't get me wrong, I love looking at a LOT of non-canon pairings through a romantic lens because It's Neat™, but showing physical affection or willing to throw down/break the law for someone or calling them things like "admirable" or "amazing" are not? Inherently romantic?? Like by so many people's standards I'd be in romantic love with all my platonic friends, I guess, and that's very annoying. Romance isn't the only kind of love that exists!!! Nor is it the only important or significant one!!!

(On a more specific note, there's a fairly pervasive idea that Aki/Himeno is...a grooming relationship? When according to the established timeline and personal events that would. Literally be impossible. People take the "I'm not old enough to smoke" line that happens not long after they meet as some sort of confirmation that Aki was, like, fifteen or sixteen at the time? Or something? Instead of like. Nineteen. Dude has to have time in the three years he's known her to change significantly in appearance, become old enough to smoke (the legal age for that is 20 over there btw), and develop a substance dependence. And given the visual markers of Himeno's appearance when the two of them meet and how drastically her appearance changes in the intervening years, she can't be more than a couple of years older than him? People also take a comment that's meant to convey that he's been at his job three years longer than another character as saying that he's only three years older age-wise than said character. Which, again, given the timeline. Would be impossible. And also. There is an example of grooming in this story! It's really important to the plot actually! It's meant to be seen as horrifying! You would assume that the fact that this relationship is not presented in the same way means something! Don't get me wrong, Himeno's done her fair share of shitty things, but grooming her fight partner was not one of them. There are plenty of reasons this ship isn't for everyone, you don't have to make shit up, lmao.)

13. Worst blorbo-ification

Genuinely I cannot choose between these two, so we're gonna make this post even longer.

Why do people like K*lo R*n. I don't understand. He was given the barest hint of sort-of, hazy tragic "backstory" and people...very much disagreed with me when I said I didn't think that was enough from a narrative standpoint to actually mean anything. And that's not taking into account that this blorbo-ification happened before we even knew that. When all we knew was that he felt kind of lost sometimes and killed his dad while helping head up a fascist empire, people went wild, and not in a "I like villains" kind of way. In a "he's MEANT to be read as mentally ill" kind of way (my God, please stop saying this about every character who is mean and exhibits one emotion) and "his parents MUST have been abusive to him" kind of way. Neither of those things. Has any basis in canon. Just. Just admit you like a character who's not a good person. And that you like a ship that's a dark romance. You won't explode, I promise.

The other one is Light. People want him to be a tragic anti-hero SO bad, I am incredibly tired. He went from zero to beyond 100 in the space of a couple of in-story hours. He's not some misguided utopian visionary, he's a hypocrite with a god complex. I have met too many people like this irl to get behind any positive or sympathetic interpretation of this character. (And don't get me wrong. I think in order to most effectively present the Themes™ of the work as a whole, he had to be written like this. I don't begrudge the creator (in this instance, anyway), I begrudge the fanbase. There's actually a lot I could say about this piece of media and general reaction to it, but my God this is already long enough.)

I choose violence asks

#tw: grooming mention #tw: abuse mention #long post #hope y'all like me being salty lmao #prepared to get a small slew of unfollows as per what usually happens when I do things like this lmao #multi t(ASK)ing #re: the last part-I saw something that said coming into contact w/the title object only allowed him to fully embody the person he was all #along. that he now had something that gave him the permission & ability to do what had always been simmering under the surface. and that's #ultimately how I view things as well #salty mc13 is salty

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Honestly, death to ALL portrayals of fictional characters involving Unearthly “Conventionally” Attractive™ actors, let everyone in your cast just look like a regular person.

#y'all need to get used to art that isn't overly-populated by 'beautiful' people #if someone is naturally 'gorgeous' then they gotta go through layers of make-up and stylizing to make them look average it's time for #the tables to turn I am no longer asking #they have abs? cgi those fuckers out or cover them up with make-up #the character has to be Unearthly Beautiful to make a point? too bad you simply just have to act like they are despite them looking normal #you gotta earn the right to have art centering hyper-beautiful people again. you don't get it again until you learn to stop being Weird™ #about how people look #is this harsh? idk maybe but too bad I'm bitter and angry #salty mc13 is salty

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“A story about gay/bi people can ONLY be good, respectful, and well-written if NONE of the characters EVER suffer from homophobia.”

Please shut up.

#I mean. obviously there's a difference between 'this gay/bi character suffers a disproportional amount to the rest of the cast' or 'their #suffering has no significant impact on the story beyond making them miserable' and 'they experience a realistic level of angst and negative #behavior by their peers' #like yeah if the Suffering™ is excessive then that's not good #but...you know...homophobia/biphobia. is still a thing #expression of this identity is still illegal in a bunch of countries #look at what's happening in the US right now with Thomas saying case laws that codified some of our rights are Next To Go #a not-insignificant amount of my extended family STILL thinks any and all queer people should be ostracized and are Going To Hell #if your story takes place in our world at any point before the year 2000 there is literally NOT ONE PLACE that offered marriage equality #yes we should not be reduced to tragic psa's but to say that NO ONE is EVER allowed to talk about the existence of discrimination/homophobia #in their work because it's disrespectful is...very limiting unfair and honestly ignorant #I STILL FACE ISSUES FOR THIS. DON'T TELL ME I'M NOT ALLOWED TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES IN ANYTHING I WRITE. ME. AS A WHOLE-ASS QUEER LADY #UGH #salty mc13 is salty #(also don't even get me started on how this conversation about queer stories never seems to include trans people...)

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https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-thasmin-romance-unplanned-newsupdate/

So...according to the producer.......this pairing wasn’t originally meant to even be A Thing™. Which...yeah. Yeah, that shows.

#sorry I really don't want to come across as like. A Hater™. (I mean don't get me wrong this ship really REALLY annoys me. But people are #allowed to like whatever they want). I just thought this was........interesting. Let's leave it at that #anti thasmin #also like as always take things you find on the Internet with a grain of salt anyone can write anything #I actually think this might be in notp territory now #salty mc13 is salty #chibnall critical #anti chibnall

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Just know that if you love Jaime but hate Cersei, I am majorly side-eyeing you and immediately suspicious.

#cersei lannister #that is the only show tag I am using b/c I don't trust y'all #salty mc13 is salty

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I will never understand how people can have sympathy for morally-gray-if-not-outright-evil adult (white) male characters (usually with limited backstory), but can’t extend that same fictional sympathy to well-rounded, traumatized teenage girls.

#it's the misogyny *upside down smiley face emoji* #hello I have opinions on anime/manga today #In the Vents #salty mc13 is salty #I am thisclose to saying 'she literally never did anything wrong ever' just so people will shut up #AND TRUST ME SHE DID MANY THINGS WRONG

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Society if people didn't hold [media name redacted] up as the Pinnacle of Storytelling.

#salty mc13 is salty

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I'm so tired, man........

#why are you all so boring #GENUINELY I cannot imagine living my life like this #salty mc13 is salty #human bodies were a mistake etc. etc. #we NEED to get shows/movies to cast normal-looking people I'm not joking we NEED that

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"I love this female character, she's crazy, she's insane, she's completely NUTS" <- This is not the endorsement you think it is.

#it's the fact that this is the ONLY thing people say about a character like this. it's the fact that I don't ever see the men get talked #about like this. it's the fact that people act this way toward women expressing one (1) extreme emotion IN REAL LIFE. #I saw something and I'm gonna make it everyone's problem #salty mc13 is salty

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Lmao at people saying that this thing's handling of nuanced topics is just now bad and the writing is just now abysmal. Babes, it always was.

#salty mc13 is salty #I'm not gonna talk about it. but the things people CHOOSE to be upset about re: discussion of things in fiction while ignoring other stuff #will never cease to irritate me

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Why are people so weird about the GoT/ASoIaF women.

#minus like. the two fan-favorite ones. but then again people are weird about THEM in different ways. #I do not believe people when they say they want more complicated or awful or morally grey or selfish or disaster women in fiction #when THIS fandom-of this thing with one of the highest number of those types of female characters-acts like this #ugh anyway I complain about nothing new ever #salty mc13 is salty