#mspec lesbian problems

[bilesproblems]

Ace(spec)s and aro(specs): hey romance and sex are TWO DIFFERENT things! Romantic and sexual attraction are different! It's extremely harmful to our community/communities to say they are the same. Aces can love without sex/without feeling sexual attraction and aros can have sex without it being a romantic thing/without feeling romantic attraction and that's fine!

Exclusionists online: um it's acephobic to use the split attraction model if you're not aspec btw. Your romantic and sexual orientations have to be the same. I am a good aspec ally.

#mspec lesbian #mspec veldian #mspec gay #bi lesbian #bi veldian #bi gay #pan lesbian #pan veldian #pan gay #mspec lesbian safe #bi lesbian safe #bi lesbian problems #mspec lesbian problems #asexual #ace #aromantic #aro #actually asexual #actually arospec #acespec #arospec #asexual problems #aromantic problems #fake allies fr #if you actually listened to us you'd know anyone can experience split attraction #aspecs cite hookups as proof love and sex can exist separately among allos. why can't orientations differ? #do you actually understand what our communities are saying or do you support aspecs because it's no longer cool to shit on us? #probably the latter given alloaro cishet men discourse happened recently. #you guys still think it's morally wrong for sex and love to be separated to any degree

[the-meme-monarch]

aww you don't like when people have multiple seemingly conflicting labels about their gender and/or sexuality? tell me more about how black and white and uncomplicated you think people are

#leave mspec people alone Literally why is it your problem #words from the monarch #sorry. i so often see people like 'dont interact if you are or support mspec gays/lesbians' and it makes no fucking sense to me

[hussyknee]

You know what? You're right about everything. In fact people who shit all over mspec gays/lesbians not only have no concept of how anything works, but they're also fucking selfish and horrible members of the community. I'll die on this hill. A bunch of assholes only out for themselves.

We are actively under fire in many countries. US and UK are actively heading into a trans genocide. Russia is getting worse, too now. Loads of other countries I haven't named. (Before anyone says jack shit the fucking center named after the person who coined the term genocide said we were headed that way. Genocide isnt an overnight thing you stupid leftists Do your damn research and shut up.)

We are at a high rate of suicide and sexual violence, regular violence housing and health care denial, etc. Do you think someone is going to stop and make sure someone isn't a snowflake queer or "tucute" or mspec lesbian before they bash their fucking head it? Do you think a doctor is gonna tell a nonbinary person who looks visibly queer "of course I'll treat you, you're not one of those trans people" Not to mention how you're so quick to exclude closeting and questioning kids who already want to kill themselves? Do you fucking hear the way you talk about your own people? LEAVE OUR OWN PEOPLE ALONE AND CALL YOUR GOVERNEBT REPS OR GET PETTITIONS CIRCULATED OR DONATION POSTS BOOSTED!

You would really rather attack people who's fucking LABELS you disagree with than do anything fucking positive to protect the rest of us? It makes me sick to my fucking stomach that y'all care more about policing than you do about your own people? Absolute selfish and cruel bootlicker behaviour. It's disgraceful, and I'm ashamed and enraged to share space with you people.

#pop off honey #either these people dont have any real problems #or they're taking their helplessness against real problems out on their own community #it's all this is #clout chasing bully culture dressed up in the language of oppression #mutual aid and organized protests are much harder than going after people online for no reason #lgbtqia #queer discourse #exclusionism #mspec lesbian #bi lesbian #transphobia #trans genocide #queerphobia #homophobia #asks #anon #knee of huss

[rei-does-stuff]

Some of yall are absolutely miserable and need to go outside and do shit

#like i saw a post in reference to the whole mspec lesbians and us saying ‘you can do whatever you want forever actually’ and they’re like #‘NO you cant do whatever you want!!! words have meanings!!’ and it had so many rbs and im literally just like #there are real problems man #anyways you CAN do whatever you want forever so <3 #rei says stuff

[elysianmadness]

funny how you suddenly care about men harassing lesbians when you're the lesbian being harassed by men. but when other lesbians speak out against mspec "lesbians", you're suddenly jumping to defend them :)

Yes because I actually think we should blame the men harassing us instead of targeting and harassing innocent lesbians who did nothing but use a multifaceted label in a different way from you. Hope this helps! :)

#mspec lesbian hate is so stupid. tell me you've never had an actual problem without telling me you've never had an actual problem #anyways i will continue to defend mspec lesbians and reiterate that mspec lesbian hate is usually a bunch of terf bullshit! #and if it isn't literal terfs hating them then it's people dabbling in lesbian separatist ideology. aka terf shit #live and let live. peoples' identities are none of your business #venus.txt #lesbophobia cw #queerphobia cw #discourse cw

[edwardallenpoe]

okay so I've been questioning my sexuality for such a long time at this point and I've come across mspec lesbians. And, like. Yeah. Maybe I am a lesbian. I'm not going to label anything right now, I still gotta let it brew but yeah. I love that. It means so much to me, you know?

And I just fucking hate TERF's and radfems with a passion. All of this suffering, all of this confusion I've had to go through, and for what?? To keep your precious label as pure as possible?? Grow up. I'm a black, butch, dyke, and maybe a lesbian, who uses neos and he/him and I'm beautiful.

#lesbian #baby butch #black butch #butch dyke #mspec lesbian #mspec lesboy #Another thing #Lesboy. I really like that too. I don't fully know what it means but I like how it sounds #God labels are such a social construct and conforming to these rigid rules about them #Worst decision the community (or I) has ever made #Everyone is fine with genderfuckery until you touch sexuality #Then we have a problem #I just love myself too much to be scared of myself anymore

[sirenium]

Requirements for being a lesbian:

-Identify as one

That's it.

#lesbian #lgbtq #lesboys are valid #so are mspecs #how about instead of gatekeeping and barring queer people from their communities we focus on the actual issue #which is the fact that hatecrimes still happen #so does murder #a guy earnestly identifying their attraction as queer isn't the problem #a lesbian who doesn't exclusively like women for whatever reason isn't the problem #focus on the real issue #mspec safe #mspec positivity #tw discourse

[tenpixelsusie]

cut the cameras. we're not doing this shit again

#jeremy hater moment #lesbophobia #enbyphobia #THEY STILL HAVEN'T MOVED PAST MSPEC LESBIANS. AND NOW THIS. TWITTER USERS ARE GOING BACKWARDS. #i saw this when someone quote retweeted it with their nb lesbian headcanon (based) but i hate that i still had to see this shit #like. come on girl. #to clarify idrc if you use trixic (idk if it has any negative history) if it makes you comfortable go for it. but if someone's- #pushing the label on you just because you're nonbinary THAT'S where it gets to be a problem #also if this blows up or whatever dont harass this user dont search them out all that shit

[cynicalundead]

lesbian purity culture is a disease.

#if youre wlw you can be lesbian #if your gender or sexuality is complex and multifaceted that doesnt make tou exempt from being a lesbian btw! #gay men dont act like this. (most) mspecs dont act like this. (most) trans people dont act like this. and the ones that do #we call them bad! why is this different???? #why is the existence of certain lesbians lesbophobic #if not for the same reason that nondysphoric trans ppl are transphobic #or that pansexual people are biphobic #to exclude queer people with complex identities? #to gatekeep an experience and enforce that gate morally and socially until everyone agrees? that x queer people are bad and the problem #because they exist with nonconformant complexity?

[snaziestbean]

hits you with my apathy laser that makes you stop being a bitch about peoples’ identities just because they’re different from yours. to quote karl marx who give a shit

#yeahg this is about the mspec lesbian stuff from twitter people sorry #i need a way to transfer my general apathy about everything into the twitter people i think it would solve a lot of problems

[bilesproblems]

Another day another reminder that "bi lesbian" is not, never was, and never will be a TERF term. Historically it referred to bi sapphics. But you know what is a TERF thing? Lesbian separatism. The idea that lesbian is exclusive, and that lesbians can't like men, was a movement made by TERFs and for TERFs. It's such a braindead take when exclusionists say we're using a term made by TERFs when TERFs have never liked us, and our term predates lesbian separatism - the thing they're ACTUALLY affiliated with.

I don't even know how any of you fell for this anyway. Why would TERFs make a term for being attracted to cis and trans women. Because they sure as hell wouldn't count that as being lesbian, and probably aren't attracted to trans women - because y'know, they're TERFs.

#exclusionists are actually dumb #mspec lesbian #bi lesbian #mspec lesbian safe #bi lesbian safe #pro mspec lesbian #pro bi lesbian #bi lesbian problems #mspec lesbian problems

[skrunksthatwunk]

if you're reading this ask yourself whether you would accept a genderfluid or multigender person's lesbian identity. now consider whether or not you would accept a trans man's lesbian identity. now consider whether you would accept a cis man's lesbian identity.

because i think there are many people who would accept the first, but not the second two, and others who would accept the first two, but not the last one. but from where i'm standing, these are all inseparable questions.

the acceptance for multigender, genderfluid, and other similar gender-ID lesbians as valid forms of lesbians is often subtextually qualified by the fact that they are not only men. so men are allowed within lesbian spaces, but only if they are a) only men sometimes or b) not exclusively men. but i think this goes back to the idea that lesbians are "non-men who love non-men," an idea that assumes a mutual exclusivity between men and other genders, as well as men and lesbians/lesbianism. this is a concept of sapphicism that excludes many people, myself included.

i have seen people present the idea of trans men and lesbians having a historic connection and community/experiential overlap, and thus the idea of a trans man who is also a lesbian often sits within that historical (i.e. bygone) context, as well as that shared experience. i think two things happen here. first, there is a belief that this is an old phenomenon, one that no longer occurs due to the greater number of more highly proliferated labels. the thought is that this overlap would not have occured if they'd had the proper language available—that people would slot into their boxes neatly, essentially. this is not true, as evidenced by the modern existence of trans men who are/were/once ID'd as lesbians, and lesbians who are/were/once ID'd as trans men. the second is the idea that that confusion or overlap essentially gives them a pass to call themselves lesbians, due to attachment to the title; or the suggestion that a shared experience gives them the right, even as men, to identify as lesbians anyway, a right that is not extended to cis men. but i ask what that shared experience might be, and whether that should be the qualification? is it a queer afab upbringing? that could mean a lot of things. aroace women would also have such an upbringing, and many of them would not view themselves as lesbians. there are plenty of lesbians who are not afab as well, and do not have whatever externally-perceived girlhood is imagined within that. plenty of trans men (and other afab trans people) do not view themselves as having ever been little girls, and plenty of trans women (and other non-afab trans people) view themselves as having been, at some point, boys. there are many others still whose "shared experience" will not be so neatly defined. intersex people of all genders often have very different experiences with perceived and experienced sex and gender, particularly if their puberty is blatantly not typical girl-puberty or boy-puberty. even things like racial or class dynamics could skew that experience, of who is allowed to be a girl (i.e. black women in america being barred from the social roles of "woman" because the concept is associated with/necessitates whiteness), or similar questions. my point is that, while perhaps a stronger link, shared experience is an undefinable and non-comprehensive concept here, as with, frankly, most/all gender/sexuality concepts. any box will lead to exclusion; every rule has exceptions.

this leads me to the third concept. though it may be hard for some to imagine a cis man who is also (genuinely, unironically) a lesbian, i think it is safe to assume that at least one exists, and likely many more. (in discussions of gender/sexuality theory, i think it is best practice to assume that is the case.) my challenge to you, especially if you said yes to the prior two and no to this one, is to consider what makes a cis man different from these prior examples. if you believe that some men may be allowed into lesbianism, why not cis men? what makes them different? why should men need additional genders to be lesbians? why should they need to have the community-approved gender path/understanding to be lesbians? who dictates the life or experience that allows one to be a lesbian, and is it anyone's right to decide that?

i just think it's good to ask yourself these things. i am very happy to see an increase in acceptance of the first two categories of lesbians on here, but i think (and i say this with love) that a lot of these people don't really consider why they are accepted, and whether those rules apply to other groups. they begin to accept others, but don't question the broader framework. it's just a suggestion. as a genderfluid + multigender lesbian myself, i have to confront the "no boys allowed/men dni" stuff a lot, and i think the ways i'm affected by it and my experience trying to encourage the letting go of such sentiments has given me some perspective on the issue. and although im not cis anything, much less a cis man, i guess i wanted to like,, prompt some reflection in people? because i think there's a lot of well-meaning and genuinely very progressive people who may think "you're a lesbian if you say you are" but don't apply that to situations where they're confronted with a type of lesbian they don't understand/that doesn't fit their definitions. like if self-id is what matters then anyone could be a lesbian. my point is that that's true, and that's okay. you don't need to keep anyone out. lesbianism is in your heart, basically.

#im putting obscure gender theory dyke discourse on the dash again sorry #this post extends to mspec lesbians and the like as well. men and lesbianism are not mutually exclusive okay thats my point #anyway ive talked about this a few times before but whatever it needs to be said again. fuck it #someone's gotta talk about lesbian men and i guess it's gotta be me #look obviously the consensus is not that trans men can be lesbians or even that genderfluid lesbians are valid or whatever #trust me if you believe either of those things you're ahead of the curve on dyke theory and acceptance and i appreciate it #but maybe this'll make someone feel seen or change their minds or realize something idk. im just thinking out loud here #i know it's not the biggest problem in the world or that it's a very 'online issue' but i think it actually is relevant to someone somewhere #maybe not a cis man who's a lesbian but someone related or someone who does exclude certain lesbians #people have been talking about weird dyke genders since before the internet too like it's not just terminally online discourse or whatever #anyway this is just meant to be smth to chew on yk. yeah 👍

[mothheart]

Seeing people like, 3-4 years younger than me policing other queer people and being like 'sorry but lesbians CANT like men and you're problematic and harming lesbians if you say otherwise' is insane to me. Hope you change one day but I cannot stand to be around you

#sorry but how can you spew reskinned bigotry that is thrown at us already and NOT see it as a problem #these people send mspec lesbians & gays death threats and proudly say theyd beat the shit out of them and think its #normal and sane behavior #get help maybe or touch grass lol #miles rambles

[spacedouterri]

Im so sick of the damn tiktok brainrot users that come to my friends server and talk about their awful rancid opinions

#errirambles #my mutual supports mspec lesbians what should i do D: #idk give them all your money ???? #leave them alone??? #tf is your problem

[starberry-skies]

sooooo glad that every other person i encounter online hates at least one facet of my identity that's sooooooo cool i loveeeeee being like this.

#/S. obviously #i'm angry abt this if u couldn't tell. #also so cool how this is *only* a problem online. offline people don't give a shit. #positively i mean. like they're just cool thumbs up emoji #but every damn terminally online human i come across has a 75% chance of hating that i 1) have neoprns/xenogenders 2) bi gay or 3) speak up #for trans men #it's bullshittttttt dude #i have a post to make abt how distaste of mspec gays/lesbians has stemmed directly from biphobia but i'm tired #chirping

[arotrixic-disaster]

Me: What if I'm not really a lesbian...?

Also me: *thinks back to the fact I feel much better when with women and there's actually a hint of attraction there* Yep, definitely a lesbian.

#lesbian #sapphic #aromantic lesbian #lesbian problems #aro lesbian problems #mspec lesbian #bi lesbian #bi lesbian problems