#it's either a white vs asian guy thing

[tricoloured-cat]

how are they the same age

#they're both 32 in the pics #it's either a white vs asian guy thing #or fukuzawa just has superior skin care #come on fitz u gotta step up your game you're literally loaded #bsd #fukuzawa yukichi #bsd francis scott fitzgerald

[whatdancingdorkswasalreadytaken]

9, 14, 20, 23 :)

(This is theblorboscalledtheturtles (maker of this ask list) on main)

thank you so much for the ask!

9 - i do have gripes with each version of tmnt (i wish there were more april-focused storylines in 2003, i also could’ve done without most of the romantic subplots in 2012 and wish rise mikey had more focus) but they usually don’t spoil my enjoyment of them.

however, as a franchise, there are many things in tmnt that have not aged well, such as the racism and treatment of black and asian characters  (like how most of the actors playing splinter have been white and how characters such as bebop in the 87 series and the professor in the 03 series were also voiced by white guys) across the runtime of the franchise. i’m not a part of either of those communities so i would encourage white fans to listen to black and asian fans that speak about the racism within the franchise (there’s an excellent video that talks about the problems with splinter’s character that you can watch here) as i don’t think it gets brought up enough

14 - i’ve already said 03 mikey in a different ask so i’ll probably go with 87 donnie. bro is unhinged af and i love him for that.

20 - on the one hand 03 mikey would annoy the shit out of his brothers if he had one… on the other hand it would be funny as shit… the dilemma 🤔

23 - i’m not really into crossovers with other franchises (it’s partly the reason as to why i’m yet to watch the batman vs tmnt movie, but i do hear that it’s really good) 

#answered #tmnt 1987 #tmnt 2003 #tmnt 2012 #tmnt vs batman #text #tw racism

[beardedmrbean]

[23 year anon]

Damnit I had a long ww2 anon that didn’t go through because the app crash. But I was pointing out why decolonization in the Americas never made sense to me because well I’m a African American

My genes are mostly African like the desire to eat mud that later became cornstarch when we moved up north. Also I’m a midwesterner (Chicago area, but never raised in the ghetto) who was born in a small college town and lived in the south (NC) for a few years. My mother tongue is English, my culture is predominantly Anglo Saxon with black culture being a mutation of poor Europeans in the south and baptism

What I actually do the research

My only connection to the old world are the chains my ancestors were put into. Which is why I envy Europeans, Indian, First Nations, and Asians Americans who still have their culture roots

Also the more I learn about African cultures the more I realize how bs pan Africa is

Black activist American wearing designer clothes, a have Rolex watch, Nikes, and the latest iPhone: White people took my culture roots

Native African who have to deal with tribal conflicts that the cia took advantage of and making his birthplace a hellhole: you don’t mess much

Also one thing that cause issues between African Americans vs native Africans is that they have fetishized view of Africa which is the times worse than a white guy because of pan Africa

Black Americans, please a love of god swallow this hard pill. Yes we will never know where our ancestors and tribes from. But those other Africans tribes and kingdoms bastards sold us to Europeans for guns.

But what did those Africans who sold for guns did after going to the new world? Well beside the struggles, we help create and improve inventions like the lightbulb (a black guy extended the life on) we became the forefront of the Industrial Revolution. We help begin the Conquest of the Heavens(space travel) with the Apollo missions while those African kingdoms of bastards fell apart and culture became nothing more than costumes.

Okay sorry for the villain monologue, but I think what would really help approve the African Americans communities is that unless your ancestor or parent came to Africa in living memory. We realize we will never truly be part of the old world

But hey at least we will never known if we are descendants colonizers or inbreed monarchs.

I had a thing written out, but I chucked it.

I think you're pretty much saying what all needs to be said here, other than maybe the various African kingdoms were like that long before the Europeans arrived and the "Scramble for Africa" began, which technically still going on just without the colonization part.

Not sure if I'll ever understand that whole thing, namely how the various countries managed to get and maintain control of areas that dwarf the size of their home territories and actually manage to get some loyalty out of the people in those territories.

I suppose much like what happened in the Americas leveraging existing tribal conflicts helped, what we in the US call the "French and Indian War" was just another theater of the 7 years war in Europe but over here the natives were on one side or the other depending on which tribes the other side liked. _____________________

Imagine what would happen if Africa balkanized, it would be insane.

Probably not good insane either.

#anonymous

[olderthannetfic]

I'm a Chinese, nationally and racially. Racial projection seems to be a common practice in western fandom, doesn't it? I find it a bit... weird to witness the drama ignited upon shipping individuals with different races, or the tendency to separate characters into different "colors" even though the world setting doesn't divide races like that. Such practice isn't a thing here. Mind explaining a bit on this phenomenon?

--

Sure, I can try. But of course, fish aren’t very good at explaining the water they swim in.

Americans aren’t good at detecting our own Americanness, and a lot of what you’re seeing is very much culturally American rather than Western in general. (In much of Europe, “race” is a concept used by racists, or so I’m told, unlike in the US where it’s seen more neutrally.) Majority group members (i.e. me, a white girl) aren’t usually the savviest about minority issues, but I’ll give it a shot.

The big picture is that most US race stuff boils down to our attempts to justify and maintain slavery and that dynamic being applied, awkwardly, to everyone else too, even years after we abolished slavery.

There’s a concept called the “one drop rule” where a person is “black” if they have even one drop of black blood.

We used to outlaw “interracial” marriage until quite recently. (That meant marriage between black people and white people with Asians and Hispanic people and others wedged in awkwardly.) Here’s the Wikipedia article on this, which contains the following map showing when we legalized interracial marriage. The red states are 1967.

That’s within living memory for a ton of people! Yellow is 1948 to 1967. This is just not very long ago at all. (Hell, we only fully banned slavery in 1865, which is also just not that long ago when it comes to human culture.)

Why did we have this bananas-crazy set of laws and this idiotic notion that one remote ancestor defines who you are? It boils down to slavery requiring a constant reaffirming that black people are all the same (and subhuman) while white people are all this completely separate category. The minute you start intermarrying, all of that breaks down. This was particularly important in our history because our system of slavery involved the kids of slaves being slaves and nobody really buying their way out. Globally, historically, there are other systems of slavery where there was more mobility or where enslaved people were debtors with a similar background to owners, and thus the people in power were less threatened by ambiguity in identity.

Post-slavery, this shit hung around because it was in the interests of the people in power to maintain a similar status quo where black people are fundamentally Other.

A lot of our obsession with who counts as what is simply a legacy of our racist past that produced our racist present.

--

The other big factor in American concepts of identity is that we see ourselves as a nation of immigrants (ignoring our indigenous peoples, as usual). A lot of people’s families arrived here relatively recently, and we often don’t have good records of exactly where they were from, even aside from enslaved people who obviously wouldn’t have those records. Plenty of people still identify with a general nationality (”Italian-American” and such), but the nuance the family might once have had (specific region of Italy, specific hometown) is often lost. Yeah, I know every place has immigrants, and lots of people don’t have good records, but the US is one of those countries where families have on average moved around a lot more and a lot more recently than some, and it affects our concepts of identity. I think some of the willingness to buy into the idea of “races” rather than “ethnicities” has to do with this flattening of identity.

New immigrant groups were often seen as Other and lesser, but over time, the ones who could manage it got added to our concept of “whiteness”, which gave them access to those same social and economic privileges.

Skin color is a big part of this. In a system that is founded on there being two categories, white owners and black slaves, skin color is obviously going to be about that rather than being more of a class marker like it is in a lot of the world.

But it’s not all about skin color since we have plenty of Europeans with somewhat darker skin who are seen as generically white here, while very pale Asians are not. I’m not super familiar with all of the history of anti-Asian racism in the US, but I think this persistent Otherness probably boils down to Western powers trying to justify colonial activities in Asia plus a bunch of religious bullshit about predominantly Christian nations vs. ones that are predominantly Buddhist or some other religion.

In fact, a lot of racist archetypes in English can be traced back to England’s earliest colonial efforts in Ireland. Justifying colonizing Those People because they’re subhuman and/or ignorant and in need of paternalistic rulers or religious conversion is at the bottom of a lot of racist notions. Ironic that we now see Irish people as clearly “white”.

--

There are a lot of racist porn tropes and racist cultural baggage here around the idea of black people being animalistic. Racist white people think black men want to rape/steal white women from white men. Black women get seen as hypersexual and aggressive. If this sounds like white people projecting in order to justify murder and rape... well, it is.

Similar tropes get applied to a lot of groups, often including Hispanic and Middle Eastern people, though East Asians come in more for creepy fantasies about endlessly submissive and promiscuous women. This nonsense already existed, but it was certainly not helped by WWII servicemen from here and their experiences in Asia. Again, it’s a projection to justify shitty behavior as what the party with less power was “asking for”.

In porn and even romance novels, this tends to turn up as a white character the audience is supposed to identify with paired with an exotic, mysterious Other or an animalistic sexy rapist Other.

A lot of fandoms are based on US media, so all of our racist bullshit does apply to the casting and writing of those, whether or not the fic is by Americans or replicating our racist porn tropes.

(Obviously, things get pretty hilarious and infuriating once Americans get into c-dramas and try to apply the exact same ideas unchanged to mainstream media about the majority group made by a huge and powerful country.)

--

Politically, within the US, white people have had most of the power most of the time. We also make up a big chunk of the population. (This is starting to change in some areas, which has assholes scared shitless.) This means that other groups tend to band together to accomplish shared political goals. They’re minorities here, so they get lumped together.

A lot of Americans become used to seeing the world in terms of “white people” who are powerful oppressors and “people of color” who are oppressed minorities. They’re trying to be progressive and help people with less power, and that’s good, but it obviously becomes awkward when it’s over-applied to looking at, say, China.

--

Now... fandom...

I find that fandom, in general, has a bad habit of holding things to double standards: queer things must be Good Representation™ even when they’re not being produced for that purpose. Same for ethnic minorities or any other minority. US-influenced parts of fandom (which includes a lot of English-speaking fandom) tend to not be very good at accepting that things are just fantasy. This has gotten worse in recent years.

As fandom has gotten more mainstream here, general media criticism about better representation (both in terms of number of characters and in terms of how they’re portrayed) has turned into fanfic criticism (not enough fics about ship X, too many about ship Y, problematic tropes that should not be applied to ship X, etc.). I find this extremely misguided considering the smaller reach of fandom but, more importantly, the lack of barriers to entry. If you think my AO3 fic sucks, you can make an account and post other fic that will be just as findable. You don’t need money or industry connections or to pass any particular hurdle to get your work out there too.

People also (understandably) tend to be hypersensitive to anything that looks like a racist porn trope. My feeling is that many of these are general porn tropes and people are reaching. There are specific tropes where black guys are given a huge dick as part of showing that they’re animalistic and hypersexual, but big dicks are really common in porn in general. The latter doesn’t automatically mean you’re doing the former unless there are other elements present. A/B/O or dubcon doesn’t mean it’s this racist trope either, not unless certain cliched elements are present. OTOH, it’s not hard for a/b/o tropes to feel close to “animalistic guy is rapey”, so I can see why it often bothers people.

A huge, huge, huge proportion of wank is “all rape fantasies are bad” crap too, which muddies the waters. I think a lot of people use “it’s racist” as an easy way to force others to agree with their incorrect claims that dubcon, noncon, a/b/o, etc. are fundamentally bad. Many fans, especially white fans, feel like they don’t know enough to refute claims of racism, so they cave to such arguments even when they’re transparently disingenuous.

--

Not everyone here thinks this way. I know plenty of people offline, particularly a lot of nonwhite people, who think fandom discourse is idiotic and that the people “protecting” people or characters of color are far more racist than the people writing “bad” fic or shipping the wrong thing.

But in general, I’d say that the stuff above is why a lot of us see the world as white people in power vs. everyone else as oppressed victims, interracial relationships as fraught, and porn about them as suspect. Basically, it’s people trying to be more progressive and aware but sometimes causing more harm than good when those attempts go awry.

#Anonymous

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

So an Aussie school implemented critical race theory in a school and I’m watching the first episode so far the white students hate themselves because they are automatically bad because white. Because that’s how you solve racism identifying people by race and making them evil?

There was also a lot of mocking I think of white students “what does it mean to be white?” And they don’t know so the presenter is laughing. Because there’s no nuance because white is one homogenous culture no nuance what so ever. Greek is identical to Irish to Russian to German to Ukrainian.

That's what it does. I've seen it described as a universal solvent. Thinking about everybody around you in terms of race and in terms of neo-Marxian oppressor/oppressed class dynamics is the surest way to disintegrate human connections, stir up resentment and divide.

I'm surprised that this was done at an Australian school. Partly because Australia's ethnic demographics are much different than the USA, where this theology originated. Indeed, much of the early development of the Australian settlements appears to have been done on the back of white people transported there in chains, as convicts often found guilty of petty crimes. Australia has a significant Asian population, and their black population tends to be either their indigenous people, or recent immigrants from African nations. So the presuppositions and of the theology don’t really line up.

Ironically, the implementation of CRT is a demonstration of American missionaries colonizing their theology into other countries.

Here's the thing about culture, though.

Culture is experienced, it's something you participate in. It's what surrounds you. It's not a property of a person's biology. In America, black and white people who were born and grew up there will have more in common culturally than they will have differences. They're black and white Americans. Their culture is American. They know how tipping works, how the football leagues work, how the rivalry between different cultural factions works: east vs west music, which Chris team you're on, Ford vs Chevrolet, etc.

Through my job, there's a white guy I work with online who is from and in South Africa. He even did compulsory national service. He is more "African" (although Africa is an entire continent of many countries) than Oprah Winfrey. He's culturally South African, ethnically Afrikaner, with ancestry to the Netherlands Dutch.

For that matter, Yasmine Mohammed, whose mother is Egyptian, from Egypt, is more culturally "African" than Oprah Winfrey. Yasmine is first-generation Canadian, born to an immigrant from an African nation. Oprah Winfrey is not.

Black Americans, by the way, typically have about 15-20% European ancestry, along with a smaller mixture of Native American and other genetic lines.

This is why "cultural appropriation" is so demented. Often the people scolding others are themselves as removed from the culture as the person they're scolding, and are simply using their skin color to manipulate others.

Culture is not in your DNA or your skin tone. Ethnicity is your family's history or lineage of culture, which in Europe can be as diverse as Irish, Swedish, Spanish, Polish, Croatian and Italian. Ancestry is your genetic heritage. These are all different things.

Anyone who thinks the Irish and the Polish, the Spanish and the Swedish, the British and the Croats, are interchangeable is as stupid as they are ignorant.

Here is a mega-post showing the diversity of traditional European cultures, from Albania to Wales.

https://www.tumbex.com/rachel-angelina.tumblr/post/638380173057818624

"White culture" is therefore an incoherent term. Take a black American, a black Kenyan and even a black Brit and put them in a room together to discuss their culture - traditions, society, values, social expectations and norms, etc. Hell, put a black American and a black Canadian in the same room. Any shared and contrasting aspects of their culture will parallel those of a white American and a white Canadian.

Ideologues like this want to fixate on the white and black, not on the American, or the Australian, the Kenyan, South African, etc.

The presenter is deliberately misusing words to confuse the kids. Because the presenter is a racist. They see the non-white people as a different culture than the white people. e.g. seeing a fourth generation Australian student with Chinese ancestry as being "Chinese" and not "Australian"; that is being outsiders to the local culture. The presenter is looking at such a kid and believes to their core “you are not Australian, your eyes and your skin mean you can never be Australian.” And seeing the white students as having "no culture" means they're actually making "white" the default, without regard for their diverse cultural lineage, as you mentioned.

The presenter is a full-blown white supremacist. And I mean that in the Strom Thurmond sense, not the nonsensical world of milk and hiking being "white supremacy."

The implementation of Critical Race Theory - i.e Critical Race Praxis and Critical Race Pedagogy - and other Woke doctrines reliably and inevitably heralds increased division and racism (and sexism, hetero/homo-angst, etc), not less, because everybody spends all their time fixating on race, gender, sexuality, etc, and not on getting anything done. There is a long history of destruction in its wake, from Evergreen State College to Knitting Instagram.

Because it’s not about solving problems any more than Xianity is about instilling morality. It’s about authoritarianism and securing belief in a specific ideology and worldview. At any cost.

#ask #critical race theory #wokeness #wokeness as religion #woke #woke activism #woke authoritarianism #white culture #critical theory #religion is a mental illness

[marimopeace]

there's a limit on how much you can be an isekai intellectual...

a bunch of analyses have been popping up before me all day so i wanted to throw my hat into the ring. all love to ppl who are exercising their creative minds + ppl like geoff here who just talk about these things because of fan interest but i feel like there reaches a point where exploring the "types" of isekai is pointless? i've seen ppl list out the different types of villainess revenge isekai or fantasy mmorpg isekai but eh why fit them all into separate boxes like that?

i think it's easier to think of isekai as a "type" (genre) of itself with only two categories: 1) a focus on isekai (lit. another world) 2) tensei (lit. to be reborn). this allows for a variety of applications and thus tropes that ppl see so many trends of!

with isekai - in another world

you see everything from:

pure fantasy (inuyasha, digimon wait maybe not the best example but in my childhood mind i count digimon as pure fantasy, fushigi yugi)

mmorpg inspired fantasy/adventure (.hack//legend of twilight, sao ugh, log horizon, overlord (LOVE OVERLORD!)

otome game-esque worlds >>> this is where it gets complicated with "villainess routes" since i admit there are multiple villainess tropes but this is why it's nice to not think of this as a "sub-type/genre" bc it frees you from those complications! (the saint's magic power is omnipotent, the white cat's revenge as plotted from the dragon king's lap soso cute!, the savior's book cafe in another world, i'm a villainous daughter so i'm going to keep the last boss wait i can't remember if she's reborn in this one lmaooo see this is why rules make everything hard)

with tensei storylines - being reincarnated/reborn in another world as *insert character/role*

you see...

the same tropes!!

pure fantasy (a returner's magic should be special, reminiscence adonis, the lady and the beast, light and shadow, i can't think of a manga off the top of my head for this ah)

mmorpg inspired fantasy/adventure (so i'm a spider so what i stan kumoko so hard, her majesty's swarm, can't name another off the top of my head ah i hate lists shorter than two things...)

self-insert based games/novels (fiance's observation log of a self-proclaimed villainess, who made me a princess, death is the only ending for the villainess, the villainess wants to marry a commoner, honestly games vs novels are different applications but i'm not in the headspace to try to remember a bunch of both lol)

*insert line break to give random ppl a break from scrolling but tl; dr just enjoy things for what they are no need to micro analyze*

similar variations occur in both genres (if ppl want to be super technical i guess i'm arguing that isekai itself is a massive genre that has the "another world" subgenre and "reincarnation" subgenre tl; dr) so i think it's honestly a huge pain to try to separate all these trends into so many different types of stories. for me personally it's easier to not get overwhelmed by this gigantic umbrella of "isekai" that spans light novels, manhwa, manga, and mobile games by just stripping each story down into its trademark tropes (aka character archetypes, story structures) and slapping "oh this is a person going to a world that's not ours" and "this person gets reborn as blank in another world". none of this "omg this power fantasy is such a this kind of isekai moment" or "there are 14 different types of villainess revenge stories and this series fits into this" bc AH labels! limitations! circle-jerks via ppl trying to compartmentalize everything and sound smart for leaving a comment on story analysis instead of ooh-ahhing over a character's face! dividing things into light novel manga vs manga vs korean manhwa ft. female characters!

the last bit is mainly why i feel frustrated by ppl's insistence to group everything?

the video linked at the beginning of the post (honestly good video essay, i enjoyed it, i just kept thinking in my head the whole time "marimo these are tropes do not take the genre talk literally") has a baby comment thread talking about "korean isekai manhwas" as a genre featuring nothing but reincarnated villainess' and i can't.

like i cannot acknowledge that as a genre of any sort. the energy i felt reading through some of those insights takes me back to 2012 when all yt americans discovered k-pop and deemed all korean music k-pop from then on! (ppl still do this now, yes you are seen and don't talk to me pls i don't like you. k-pop is korean pop music and nothing less and nothing more. take a few seconds and try to parse apart aspects of korean culture instead of slamming everything into a monolithic label that has the letter k and a hyphen.) it feels so odd to see a bunch of young ppl on ig and tiktok acknowledge korean media that happens to be in the form of a webtoon as "oh stories all about young girls becoming villains in stories they made/played" bc it feels so reductive u.u

(positionality disclaimer that i'm praying isn't actually necessary: i am a 3rd-generation korean of japanese descent do not fite me i am exhausted irl of ppl asking for validation/verification bc massive shove off.)

breaking news! korean manhwa...is just as multifaceted as japanese manga...bc how can comics as an art-form not have multiple genres...huh such a shocker?!?! same likely applies to media in other parts of the world like chinese manhwa and french comics--not my place to explain either of those i just know those industries exist bc of wakfu and donghua shows by Tencent.

at the end of the day it's not like analyzing any kind of isekai is wrong--absolutely not!! i think it can be super fun to think about how isekai elements complicate a story (MCs trying to go back home, ppl from the og world, reincarnation plot-twists) or maybe even bash a series for including some kind of other world element when they could have just written a super fun fantasy.

insert marimo's brief ramble that hey you can get sick of truck-kun's hitting disillusioned guys who happen to be super duper smart or girls who happen to be master chefs/craftsmen but transporting a fully-grown being into a fantasy setting is the ultimate cheat code for making mundane modern technology seem cool and overpowered, and being reincarnated as a fully grown person in a world with a pre-made story/game set-up completely bypasses the need for an author to slowly flesh out world-building in a natural progression so isekai is actually a really smart writing tool it's just that there are some series where the author didn't use it well at all and it's cheesy or clearly isekai was misused as a vehicle for character/story development and it was pointless *DEEP BREATH OUT*

in this essay i will argue...lol i am such a culture studies major!! if i were an english major i would be talking all about writing but here i am having a side-tangent about world-building via someone being reborn wow i love this for me (don't get me started on when an author has someone reincarnate as a baby and the story is mostly them having warm fluffy moments with their family--typically father figures--and getting lots of powers i could and would and probably will rant about east asian toxicity)

but anyway am i crazy????? like yes for being passionate about the technical use of a word like genre (i am a scorpio rising let me be fussy pls) but i don't think it's a lot to ask for ppl to not unironically see "villainess revenge isekai" as the definition of korean manhwa.

idk as someone who resonates with why japanese isekai is so popular domestically + why a lot of korean manhwa feat. the same tropes (it's not for great reasons lads it's actually depressing tbh) i'm just starting to feel kind of pained by the generalization and need to separate "cute japanese girl in an otome game"/"japanese boy finds a harem in another world" from "korean girl dies and comes back as a villainess" bc they are just! applications to the same story device!!

recommendations for any who makes it this far down below <3

// also gladly recommend any of the examples i've listed in the above rant as i've read/watched all of them and adore them v much! //

save me princess

super refreshing fantasy manhwa ft. a princess and her ex-boyfriend having to save the world!

the beginning after the end

an AMERICAN web novel turned into a comic (but see it being not korean/japanese doesn't really matter when you just consider isekai as a genre...isn't it nice to not overthink it?) ft. a super-powerful wizard king reincarnated into another world and starting from scratch--gives mushoku tensei vibes but huge twists!

the reason why raeliana ended up at the duke's mansion

love love LOVE this story--read the title and you'll learn how this girl reincarnated as the character raeliana in a book gets married to a duke!

trash of the count's family

such a good novel!! a guy gets reborn as a lazy oaf and he takes the hero of the story under his wing...plot twists come up later on!

this time i will definitely be happy!

v good and refreshing for a shorter series! she's been reborn 3 times and remembers every time the hero's stabbed her in the back, and now she just wants to break up with him!

silver diamond

older manga but v good adventure w intrigue! a boy who loves plants get sucked into a desert world with demonic lizards and a mysterious bodyguard by his side. shonen-ai not BL but wonderful vibes nonetheless + great side characters!

the princess imprints a traitor

adore everything in this from the world (not in that way this society makes me so angry) to the machinations at play and the dynamic between the fl and ml

#isekai #mother's basement #inuyasha #digimon #fushigi yugi #.hack//legend of the twilight #log horizon #overlord #the saint's magic power is omnipotent #the white cat's revenge as plotted from the dragon king's lap #a returner's magic should be special #adonis #the lady and the beast #light and shadow #kumo desu ga nani ka #her majesty's swarm #fiance's observation log of a self-proclaimed villainess #death is the only ending for a villainess #the villainess wants to marry a commoner #save me princess #the beginning after the end #the reason why raeliana ended up at the duke's mansion #trash of the count's family #this time i will definitely be happy! #silver diamond #see i normally put the raw titles for everything but the tiny korean/japanese part of my brain is so tired bc my english brain went off #the princess imprints a traitor #manga #manhwa #donghua

[wenellyb]

I have a general comment to make about the whole Sebastian thing, not on the Instagram picture, because it is not my place to comment, but a general comment about dealing with racism in the fandom, and some of the behavior I have seen on Tumblr.

I have a story to share first and it's not really related to fandoms, or shipping Sambucky or even Sebastian Stan directly but it's about how White people see racism, so I hope some people will read this and think about it.

I just want to say one thing... if you want to comment this, please read until the end before you do.

And please bear in mind that I'm not talking for anybody else but only my own experience and my opinion.

I see a lot of people get defensive when racism is called out in the fandom,whether it is them or a celebrity they love, and a lot of them try to deny it, or try to find excuses.

I understand why they do it, but it's really not the right way. The correct way is to sit down, listen, think about it and THEN only then can you deny or accept the accusations.

Here’s the story:

I was once with my group of friends and I don't know what prompted the question but they asked me if I thought all White people were racist. And you can guess it, I'm the only Black woman in my group of friends. We're all French and 5 of my friends have Asian orgins (Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos) and 3 of my Friends are White. Just planting the decor, lol.

I don't know why they asked, but we're always having debates like these on different topics so i just answered...

I told them that yes, that I thought all White people are racists, and that racism is not just hating all Black people, or all non-White people, but also includes a multitude of other aspects that enables racism to prosper.

It can be some unconscious feeling that you or White people in general are a tiny/ a lot better than Black people, it can be making or laughing at racists jokes, it can be denying racism even exists anymore: " But it's 2021, those kind of things don't exist anymore" this is also harmful, because then when your friends come talking to you complain about an encounter that was racist.... you will minimize it because "racism doesn't exist anymore so it can't be racist" so even though your intentions may not be bad... You are protecting the racists, intentionally or not etc...

There are so many more aspects to racism than just being a far right extemist who hates all foreigners. Racists don't only look like that.

I won't expand on this, but there are many more aspects, I mean I could expand, but it's not the point of my posts, the point of my post is that they asked me and I made a mini essay to explain that the way I see it, there are "levels" of racism (for lack of a better word), and that in that aspect, all White people were racist. People think that you need to be a far right white supremacist, to be racist, you really don’t.

And I told my White female friend, let's call her Alice, that she was the only White person I knew who wasn't racist (implying that my other two friends were racist).

To be honest, I don't think that all White people are racist, my uncle is White and he's the furthest from racist you'll ever find, but I said it anyway because otherwise some people would never question themselves. If I say this people will either get defensive and deny it, or reflect on it and try to assess if they have some internalized stuff they didn't explore and didn't know. But if I say that not all White people are racists, my friends would have directly thought they were off the hook.

What I do believe is that a lot of people are racist and just don’t realize it because they only think about the "extreme" cases of racism.

So I said to my friends that I thought all white poeple were racist and two things happened, and I wasn't expecting any of it:

- My White male friend, let's call him Pierre, listened carefully, and said that in what I had described, he admitted that he was indeed racist, he acknowledged that he did have some prejudice if he was being honest, and also that he had made some racists jokes so that even though he never considered himself racist, hearing what I was saying he said that on some levels, he was indeed racist.

Bear in mind that this is the friend whose favorite character in Black Panther was Martin Freeman, and had already argued in other conversations that positive discrimination made it difficult for White straight Men to find a job (When by the way he has never struggled to find a job a day in his life so go figure, besides there is no postive discrimination policies in France or anything, so I don't even know why he said that).

So knowing my friend, I knew he had some kind of prejudice, obviously, I just didn't think he would really think about what I was saying and admit it.

This was kind of a big deal, and I would never have thought that he would have admitted it, I thought he was the one I would have to argue with, but nope, he listened.

- Then my friend Alice, the one I had told was the only White Person I knew who wasn't racist, got mad and got defensive, even though she was the only one I hadn't called racist to her face. I said specifically she was the one White person I knew who wasn't racist because from previous discussions she was the most open when it came to discuss issues on racism.

However, she's the one who wouldn't really listen and said that I should not generalize about all White poeple, all that kind of stuff, so eventually I had to apologize to her and told her "It's not because all White People I know are racist that all White people are". I had to rephrase this way.

A few months later, I received a message from my friend Pierre, he's Alice's boyfriend by the way. He texted me that they were having Sunday lunch with her family, and someone asked Alice about a Black woman she knew, and Alice answered " She's pretty for a Black girl"...

So many things to unpack, the violence of those words thrown around so casually, those words being said by someone who doesn't consider herself racist, and also, the fact that I would have never known this if her own boyfriend hadn't texted me this.

"She is pretty for a Black girl" is one of the most disgusting and White Supremacist thing she could have said: All Black people/women are ugly by default but that girl is a little bit over that standard?" I don't know any context where that sentence isn't awful.

And also, I'm her friend, am I supposed to be relieved that maybe I'm in the basket of the "pretty ones" or should I consider myself as a member of the other crowd?

There's no way around it, what she said was so f*cked up.

This is why your " I can't be racist I have a Black friend" doesn't mean anything by the way. It doesn't mean anything. She's one of my closest friends.. we had a group trip together for my birthday. So she's not a casual friend, she was in my close group of friends.

The only silver lining is that by doing this, she exactly proved my point.

So according to you, who's the "ally"?

A White guy who recognizes he has prejudice and works on his racism and will call it out when he sees it, even if it's coming from his own girlfriend?

Or a White woman who considers herself an "ally" and doesn't think she is racist, but in the safety of her home doesn't hesitate to say racist stuff when she is surrounded by her White relatives?

It's no use being an "ally" if you're going to be defensive and deny everything or forget you're an ally the minute it is your favorite celebrity being called out.

Getting defensive whenever people start talking about racism is suspicious. If you feel called out, think about it, work on yourself and find out if what you’re being called out for is legitimate or not. And you know what maybe it isn’t? Maybe you Tumblr user X are not racist or you don't have prejudice, but you will never know if you don’t ask yourself and shut down the discussion from the beginning.

Just after the picture was posted a lot of people had already chosen their camp.

Even if you first reaction is defensiveness and wanting to deny it all, the first step should always be to sit back and think about it, and it's not only about racism, you listen first, think about it, and THEN and only then do you deny it or confirm it. Nobody is perfect, but the people who choose to stay obtuse in certain situations are really not helping and are by far the worst.

Stop finding excuses for Sebastian, of course don't go on his Instagram, don't harrass him, don't insult him... But also stop finding him excuses before you have taken the step to listen to the people who have something to say about it. Listen first, you’ll find the excuses later.

Also, most probably the people who are calling him out here on Tumblr are not the ones going on his Instagram to harass him (well at least I hope not) so why can't we have the conversation here?

We can have the conversations here on Tumblr, and discuss it... But the discussions will go nowhere if everybody just gets defensive.

Same thing when we call out racism in the fandom... Your first reaction shouldn't be to get defensive but to listen, I’m taking the example of the MCU but if we say there was racism in the Stucky fandom, don’t try to make it seem like there’s a Sambucky VS Stucky “ship war”, listen to why people are saying this, and then you can draw you own conclusions.

Here, for the Sebastian story, let's listen to what Buddhist people have to say, first. Maybe they will say the post was problematic maybe not... And we'll learn something.

My first thought is also to get defensive when I read a post and feel called out, but that's not the correct way, you may have some prejudice and not even realize it, or realize it and be in denial...

This might be contreversial but it is my opinion that most people are not hardcore racists. But their unwillingness to acknowledge their racist tendencies, working on it... or even staying silent when blatant racism is on display is what enables racism to live long and prosper.

On Twitter or other Social Media people will be openly racist without a problem, but Tumblr prides itself in being open and tolerant, but when it comes to really calling out racism, then it’s crickets-

If you don't want to do anything about racism... It's ok, I really mean it... It is ok.

If it doesn't disturb you when the non-White characters are treated differently in your fandoms it is ok, I'm serious... If you want to enjoy your Tumblr life without thinking about racism it is more than fine, you really have no obligation... It’s ok to stay away from some conversations. 

But please... please, please don't stand in the way of people who are trying to do something about it. 

And most importantly don't say you want to fight racism or that you are an "ally" but when you are called out or someone else is called out, you try to minimize everythin with "Not everything had to be about race"

Yes, not everything has to do with racism but you'll never know if you don't sit down and think about it first. Maybe Seb’s post wasn’t offensive, I don’t know. But how will we know if it was or not if we don’t listen to the people who are affected by that post?

This isn't even really about Seb himself but about the way some people in the fandom behave... How people just go to extremes without even trying to discuss first.

I love Seb as an actor, but I don’t know him and I’ll probably never meet him, I won’t spend the next days trying to defend him or accuse him, he and I live different lives that will never intersect, and it's fine like that, but I will listen to people who have been affected by his post and have something to say about it.

Seb will be fine, his career will be fine, he probably even has someone handling his social media... But the people on Tumblr who have to accept racism in silence and have had to do it for years will not be fine, if the coversations keep getting shut down before they even start. 

Everyone skipped the listening part and jumped to the defending or condemning part. And also a lot of things from the past re-surfaced (take a knee post, some instagram likes I guees) which makes it even more difficult if people skip the listening part.

To me, there are 2 groups of people, people who have prejudice and want to do something about it and people who have prejudice but don't want to do anýthing about it...

I don't know in which group Seb is and I don't know him so I won't be spending days trying to figure it out... 

But from what I've seen, at least in the MCU and Star Wars fandoms, I know in which group a lot of people in Tumblr users are and if some of them want to switch groups, it’s never too late.

#fandom racism #sebasian stan #long post #I didn’t insist on harrassement and all but of course never harrass anybody on the Internet celebrity or not. #I tried to put too many things in there.. I hope #it's still understandable #MCU fandom #tfatws #I know this is long #And I know that I have repeated some stuff... But some stuff needed to be repeated #Sometime we need to sit down and think about why people do the things that they do... #bucky barnes

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 15 Transcript: 5'3" Dean Winchester Truthing

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, my name is Grey.

C: And my name is Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, the Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show, several times…

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian!

-

G: So for today's episode, we will be discussing Season 1, Episode 15, “The Benders,” written by John Shiban, directed by Peter Ellis. It's him again.

C: Agh, fucking John Shiban again!

G: Yeah. Uh, if you guys- can we talk about the face gradient here? [laughing]

C: Yes.

G: To the audience of this episode, if you go to our socials and scroll through enough, you'll find-

C: -a post made by lesbianmarywinchester of basically, the faces of all the white man Supernatural writers in a sort of gradient to see who looks most similar to who. And it looks amazing. It's like, the power of it, the hard work behind it. Just incredible.

G: [laughing] Yes, the conceptualization and execution are both excellent. You guys should see it. It's so fucking funny. And now, every single time John Shiban shows up, or literally any writer shows up, I'll be like, "Oh, where are they in the gradient?" [laughing] Because it's so fucking funny.

C: John Shiban's in this nice little center spot here.

G: Yes, our friend called it the McElroy area.

C: [laughing] Oh, god, it literally is.

G: Okay, so, before going in, Crystal, what did you know about this episode?

C: Not very much. I knew that this was an episode without any supernatural creatures, so it was one of those "people are the real monsters" episodes. And I already0 and I also knew that there was a girl in it who was evil, but I didn't really know anything else about her, so I was disappointed that she didn't have more of a role.

-

C: So we're opening in Hibbing, Minnesota. Basically, we see a kid watching TV in his room, and then he looks outside, and there's some guy in a parking lot, and he's walking towards his car. There's some weird sound under it, so he looks down, and we don't see what he sees, but he freaks out and then gets pulled under the car and is still screaming. And then he sort of disappears. And then the boy upstairs just shuts his windows. [G laughs]

I think we're supposed to think he's scared, but he literally just looks like a stone-cold bitch. Like, he's like, "Not my fucking problem."

G: Yeah, he's like, "I don't care. Mm-hm." And then closes the window!

C: Yeah.

G: We fade in to Sam and Dean talking to the kid and the kid's mother. They're dressed up in-

C: [laughing] little sheriff outfits-

G: Yes!

C: - like it's Halloween. They look so funny.

G: They're talking to the kid, and the mother is kind of insistent that they don't want to talk, because the more they talk about it, the more the kid will believe what he saw. But Sam and Dean are doing their usual bit of "You just tell us whatever you saw, and we'll accept it, no matter what," so the kid does that, basically relays what happened, like, what Crystal just said. And the mother is like, standing unconvinced on the side, and then asks the kid, "You saw all those creepy things happen, what were you watching while the creepy things were happening?" And the kid says, "Oh, I was watching Godzilla vs Mothra." Which then sparks Dean's interest so much that he goes on a tangent about how it's the better Godzilla movie and that Sam likes the remake, and his taste sucks ass because he likes the remake. Which I guess I don't get because I haven't these watched movies .

C: Yeah, I haven't seen this franchise either, but it was a cute moment.

G: We're terrible Supernatural fans. As a Supernatural fan, you can, should, and must watch every single movie that Dean mentions.

Oh, and then the kid says, finally--this is the only important part of this conversation--that when the monster went away, it produced a whining growl.

-

C: So now we're at a bar. And apparently it's called Kugel's Keg, but it looked like it said "Kugel's Kec," like, the misspelled anime laugh. Dean is throwing darts, Sam's just chillin', and they're discussing the case. Dean thinks that it might just be a regular kidnapping, but Sam says that John's journal mentioned that this area had a lot of missing people, the most missing people per capita, like, out of all the counties in the US or something? Ooh, talk nerdy to me, Sam. And then they think that there's a phantom attacker that grabs people. And Dean's like, "Okay, yeah, sure, we can look into it tomorrow," but Sam wants to go to the motel and go to sleep. Dean thinks that this is unnecessary and wants to keep hanging out at the bar, and he calls Sam grandma for wanting their fun to be over so fast. He tells Sam to head out and that he'll meet him there, but he has to pee first.

And like, he's heading to the bathroom, which has this like, neon sign on it that says "Men's," and like... I don't know. [laughing] Something- something about Dean heading to a neon-lit men's bathroom in a bar just makes me really think that he, like, made some eye contact with a guy earlier at the bar today and is like, heading back there for a little fun.

G: Oh, come on. [laughs]

C: Okay, listen. Later- later, right? Like, Sam goes missing, and Dean goes outside, and he's like, "Oh no, where's Sam?"-

G: Yeah. It's been an hour.

C: And then he goes around asking people, "Have you seen anything-" yeah, "Have you seen anything in the last hour?" Like, Dean either has IBS or was sucking a dick, okay? [G laughing] Like, and I think that he was sucking a dick. Like, I- I just know it. I know it in my heart that he was sucking a dick. Like, I don't care what John Shiban meant here, but I know it.

G: I just realized, when I said "Oh, come on" earlier, I sounded like such a fucking homophobe. [C laughing] Please don't persecute me.

C: [laughing] I'm making a new tab on the spreadsheet for Grey homophobia moments.

Dean should be allowed to suck as many dicks in men's bathrooms as he wants. Love is love.

-

G: So Dean goes outside--no, no, no. So Sam goes outside--

C: Sam. Dean's sucking a dick.

G: [laughing] Yeah, while Dean is in the men's bathroom. He is walking towards the car when he hears a noise, so he turns on his flashlight, and then he bends down to look under the car where the noise is coming from. And we think he's gonna get grabbed, and it's all suspense music, but it's just a cat! It's a cat, and the cat is like, hissing at him.

C: Yeah. It's a cute cat.

G: Yeah. So he does a little laugh, which was so adorable. He looks so good.

C: Yeah, no, it's really cute. He looks really relieved and sweet, yeah.

G: Too bad he gets kidnapped immediately after. [C laughs]

C: [imitating Dean] My brother would give you this puppy dog look, and you would just kidnap him immediately.

G: So he gets up and then he proceeds to go to the car, at which point he just puts down this little folder that he has of the case on the side of the car. And then we go to a shot of his feet like, from below the car, which is supposed to tell us that somebody's watching him and somebody's about to grab him.

We cut to later, where Dean is walking out from the bar. And he walks towards the car, and then he sees the folder that Sam left behind. He realizes that Sam was missing. [laughs] He starts talking to the people who are going out of the bar. He's asking them if they've seen anyone within the last hour.

C: Hour!

G: He looks up, and he sees a surveillance camera. And then he's like, "Oh, okay, that's a clue. That can tell me where Sam is." And then he keeps on looking around, and he says, "Sam!" And then we cut to black.

C: You know that Tweet that's like, "Supernatural is just 15 years of two brothers stumbling around-"

G: Going, "Sam!"

C: "Crying, like, yeah, like crying drunk girls at a bar looking for each other"? Literally. "Sam! Dean! Where are you?"

-

C: Yeah, so now we're at a police department, and Dean's talking to a cop, who, I think we later find out her name is Kathleen. He's impersonating a guy called Gregory Washington, and he's saying that he's covering a missing persons case. He's looking for his cousin, who went missing by a bar last night. Kathleen asks if Sam has a drinking problem, and he says, "Sam? Two beers, and he's doing karaoke," which is- which is very cute. Also, do we never get to see Sam sing in all of Supernatural?

G: No, I don't think so.

C: But don't they let Dean sing, like, twice?

G: They let Dean sing in season 10 jokingly.

C: Right, the "I'm too sexy for my shirt."

G: Yeah, and season 15, seriously. Like, they let him sing for realsies.

C: Oh, yeah, 'cause fucking Jensen Ackles was trying to promote Radio Company or some shit.

G: [laughs] Yeah, all I could think of while saying that was that one post by one of our mutuals that was like-

C: Yes! Yes, the one about Mick Jagger?

G: Like, okay, we'll repeat the post. But the post goes like, "You know that- you know that joke that John Mulaney has about how Mick Jagger was like, in a stadium for fifty years with people shouting his name? That's basically what happened to Jensen Ackles," and that's all that person can think about every time Jensen Ackles sings. That's also all I can think about now. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, ugh, it's not fair that we never get to see Sam do karaoke. Like, oh god, I want to watch Sam just like, belt Celine Dion. Like, we deserved that; Sam deserved that; we all deserve it.

G: I mean, Jared can play the guitar, so like, we could have had a moment where Sam played-

C: Jared's not a real person, so I don't see how that's relevant, but I see.

G: [laughing] No, I know this because I saw a post once that's like, "aw, poor Jared, he's so insecure about his guitar skills, but everyone else is so supportive!" [C laughing] And it's like, a picture- it's like, a video of like, the cast like, huddling around him while he plays the guitar and like, hyping him up. [laughing] And it's so fucking funny! Like, I watched it, and I was like, "This is- I don't- like, what am I doing with my life?"

C: So Kathleen asks for the full name of the missing person. Dean says, "Sam Winchester," and she asks, "Like the rifle?" Is this the first time that we hear about the name inspiration here?

G: I think so, yeah.

C: Well, that's fun, I guess. They were like, "Well, eventually we need to point out how clever we were when we came up with the names for these characters, may as well do it now." So Kathleen types Sam's name into a computer, and there's a Sam Winchester record and [laughing] a Dean Winchester record. And immediately we go, "Uh-oh."

And then we finally find out why no one has tried to arrest Dean in the many episodes since "Skin." It's because everyone thinks he's dead for realsies. So, I guess Dean's safe.

So Kathleen brings up that Dean is suspected of murder, and Dean says, "Oh, yeah he was kind of the black sheep of the family. [in unison] Handsome, though." [both laugh] God, you're insufferable.

Dean's like, "Okay, well, can I look at the surveillance camera by the highway? Maybe it'll show us some clues." Kathleen makes him fill out a missing persons report. And Dean starts his wheedling that will continue through this episode where he's like, "He's my family, I look out for the kid, you have to let me go with you, you have to let me help." When she's resistant, he mentions that none of the missing people so far have ever come back. And then, "Sam's my responsibility, and he's coming back. I'm bringing him back."

Kathleen's showing Dean the photos from the surveillance camera, and basically, around the time that Sam disappeared, there was a rusty truck driving away [G starts laughing] that was- [laughs]

G: [laughing] Ever since the finale, every time anyone says the word "rusty"-

C: The word "rusty" just hurts you?

G: Yeah. Yeah.

C: There's a [laughs] rusty truck, and there's- the license plate on it looks completely new, so the truck was probably stolen. And, so that means that Sam was probably kidnapped by someone driving that truck. And just as that's being discussed, some old van is driving by, and it sounds like a high-pitched whining noise. And Dean's like, "Oh, that was the high-pitched shrieking that the kid was talking about that sounded like a monster."

G: It was a car.

C: Oh my god, it's another monster truck! [G laughs]

-

G: Sam wakes up in a- like, this dingy-as-shit cage in like, the middle of a barn. And he looks around, and he sees that there's other cages in the barn, and in one of the cages, there is a guy sleeping. So he starts rattling the cage, and he starts trying to kick it down. In a scene that- where he looks super hot. [laughing]

C: Yeah, no, he's strong and his knuckles are kind of bloody. Like, hi. He's like, doing fucking chin-ups on the cage.

G: Yeah, he's wearing just a shirt, and you can see his pecs through it, and he looks good.

C: Yeah, there's a- there's a scene in the Sam "Slumber Party" AMV, I think, that's about- on like, a line about his titties, that I think comes from this episode. [laughs] He's suffering horribly and being kidnapped. That. [both laughing]

G: But he looks good!

C: He does.

G: While he's kicking down the cage, the guy from the other cage wakes up from the noise. And Sam realizes that this guy is Alvin Jenkins. So like, the guy from earlier who went missing and they're looking for. He tells the guy that like, he's looking for him, and the guy immediately is like, "Oh, you're doing a piss-poor job of looking for me," so we know that this Jenkins guy is fucking insufferable.

C: I mean, he's in a cage. He's been in a cage for a while. I get it.

G: Yeah, I mean, yes, but like, they really make a point of making him like, not listen. That was his personality type.

Sam asks like, "Do you know where we are?" And Jenkins says, "We're in the middle of nowhere. It smells like the country." And Sam asks, like, "Have you seen the people who took you? What do they look like?"

C: Well, "Have you seen what took you," right?

G: Yeah, yeah. What took you. Like, he's very adamant about the whole "what" thing. And I guess maybe because I don't like, in regular conversation, it's not like I speak English fully. If someone asked me, like, "What took you?" I wouldn't even bat an eye. So, like, Jenkins being like, "What are you talking about? What are you talking about?" Like, just say "they're people" or something, like, "They're wearing hoods."

C: Yeah, but they really wanted to build up the suspense.

G: The barn door opens, and two men wearing black coats walk in. So their heads are covered and everything. And they're carrying big wooden sticks, which they start hitting the cages with, while the other person like, unlocks the cages. And it's important to know the cages are locked and unlocked through this electric mechanism. So, it's not a key. No, actually it is a key. How would you describe the lock?

C: There's a key, but there's also some kind of electric mechanism. Well, I don't really know.

G: Yeah. Like, the keyhole is very far from the cage, so it's not like Sam and Jenkins can just reach the keyhole and pick it.

They start hitting the cage to make Jenkins move away, and then they open the cage and give him food. They do the same to Sam's cage.

C: Did Sam get food? I didn't see him get food.

G: Oh, really? But they hit Sam's cage as well.

C: They just hit him, like, for fun.

G: Noo! That's so sad! I'm so sorry, Sam.

C: More foreshadowing for Sam in cages.

G: They go out, and Sam is in shock. He's like, "Oh my god, I'll be damned, they're just people!" So they continue talking about the circumstances of the cage, so, when do they feed Jenkins, etc. etc.

What's Ned Beatty? Do you know what that is?

C: Yeah, so I didn't understand the reference either, so I looked it up. And he's an actor, and I think one of his most famous roles is like, one where he gets kidnapped and raped by a bunch of like, random country guys. So, yep.

C: 'Cause later he calls them "a bunch of psycho hillbilly rednecks looking for love in all the wrong places," so he's very fixated on them being lower-class country people who are also gay and rapists. Like, that's- that's sort of what Jenkins thinks is going on.

G: So Sam is unconvinced by this, like, this remark that "it's Ned Beatty time." Jenkins, like, asks like, "If that's not what's gonna happen, what do they want?" And Sam says, "Oh, I don't know." Then we cut back to Kathleen and Dean.

-

C: They're driving along, trying to find where Sam was taken. And they know that the truck was not caught by a certain traffic camera, but it was caught by one earlier, so it must have turned off into a side road somewhere in between. Meanwhile, something comes up on Kathleen's computer, and she realizes something. So she's like, "hey, Dean," or, sorry, "hey, Gregory-"

G: [laughing] Succession/Supernatural crossover.

C: Noo! Yeah, "hey, Cousin Greg," I ran your badge number-

G: [laughing] And it says here you work at ANT! Is that the name of the- I forgot. Whatever.

C: ATN is the name of the news network, but it's- yeah, doesn't he not work with the ATN section? I thought he worked with the parks.

G: Oh, you haven't watched enough Succession.

C: Yeah, so she says, "hey, Cousin Greg, uh, quick question, I just looked up your badge, and it says that it was stolen, and also there's a picture of you," and it's like, it's clearly not him. It's like, an older, heavier Black man. [both laughing] And Dean says, "I lost some weight. And I've got that Michael Jackson skin disease." "Mr. Yamashiro's son," part two.

G: [still laughing] I genuinely laughed out loud when he said that. I was like, "Okay, this is funny."

C: Kathleen's like, "Okay, get out of the car time, to arrest you," and Dean goes like, "Hey, that's fine, I'll cooperate, but like, please, first, let me find Sam." Um, Kathleen's not allowing him, and Dean says, "Look into my eyes and tell me if I'm lying about this," which is just so fucking funny. Every time Dean tries to convince people of things, it's so fucking funny. Like, he just seems to think that, like, if he meow-meows it up, like, people will just automatically understand him and be on his side.

G: And he's like- he's really into the "look into my eyes," because he does it with Cas too, right?

C: Yeah, yeah, he does it in "The Man Who Would be King," right?

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I can't believe it worked with Kathleen.

C: I mean, I get it, 'cause- her brother, right? Like, that- that's why.

G: Yeah, like, they- they did, like, some exposition and some backstory, but like, even then, it's like, this man can be dangerous.

C: Yeah, it- I mean, I think- she takes a little while to trust him, so I think that that- like, it was unrealistic, but I could somewhat believe it. And also, he's unarmed. I feel like if he had a gun on him, like, she would probably act completely differently.

Kathleen's not budging still. Even though she looked into Dean's eyes and everything! [G laughs] Like, how could she still not? [laughs]

Right, so Dean's, like, tearing up a little, and he says, "Look, here's the thing. When we were young, I pretty much pulled him from a fire. And ever since then, I've felt responsible for him. Like it's my job to keep him safe. I'm just afraid if we don't find him fast," and like, his throat starts getting all clogged, and he's like, crying harder, he's like, "Please. He's my family." He's so pathetic. It's fun to watch.

And Kathleen's like, "Nuh-uh, gonna arrest you," but then she sees a photo in her car, and it's of her and her brother, and she looks sad, and she's like, "Ugh, I've changed my mind." So she's like, "Okay, fine, we can go find Sam."

-

G: We go to back to Sam and Jenkins. And Sam is trying- so he's trying to pull this thing that is like, a metal pipe/wire/whatever from above his cage. And Jenkins is like, "Oh, what's your name again?" And Sam's like, "It's Sam," and then Jenkins say- Jenkins says, uh, "Give it up, Sammy, there's no way out." And Sam says, "Don't- [gasps] call me Sammy."

C: Yeah, it's so good. 'Cause after Jenkins said that, I paused the episode to write down the note "Don't call him Sammy!" and Sam said it right after.

G: Like, immediately after he says that, the metal pipe/wire/whatever gets pulled down, and a small piece of metal falls to the floor. And then Sam picks it up and says, "Oh, it's a bracket." [laughs]

C: I don't know what that is. I don't know how metal tools and parts work.

G: Yeah, me too. I just find it so funny that he was like, "Oh my god, it's a bracket." Like, obviously, a bracket is holding up that thing. Like, you probably- you probably saw it before it fell. But whatever. And then Jenkins, like, you know, extremely pessimistic, he's like, "Oh, what are we gonna do with the bracket?"

Suddenly, the cage unlocks. Jenkins's cage. Sam's remains locked. Jenkins realizes that when Sam was pulling the thing, he must have shorted something. So he gets out of the cage, and Sam immediately is like, "You have to get back in there. This seems too easy." But Jenkins doesn't listen. He says that he's gonna ask for help, he's gonna get out of here, and he's gonna send people back for Sam. So he gets out.

-

C: Jenkins is walking outside. It's like, some kind of muddy woods area, and there's this house that looks pretty beat down. He finds this little knife on the ground, and he says, like, "thank you" to God. Which is quite ironic when we later find out that the weapons are deliberately left out by the Benders to make the hunt more fun. So, he's walking through the woods, and then he hears noises, and it's like, creepy laughter and whooping. As he starts- it starts raining, also, and he's running, and there's some guy in camouflage who jumps him. Jenkins stabs him and then keeps running, but then some other guy shows up and shoves a knife through Jenkins's leg. Jenkins is now running away. Okay, also, at this point, we notice that the men- they're in camouflage, and also they have like, what, like, mud smeared on their faces for the camouflage.

G: Yeah.

C: But like, for a second, I like, thought it was legit blackface, and I was like, "What the fuck." But, no. It's still quite uncomfortable.

G: Yeah. I think the intention was like- actually, I don't know. To make them look dirty, I guess?

C: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it was for camouflage, so like, like their skin wouldn't like, reflect the moonlight very much. But it kind of just- it was it was highly uncomfortable to look at.

G: Mm-hm.

C: So Jenkins is still running. The two men are still like, laughing at him and chasing him. Jenkins seems to be starting to get away, but then we see that there's this tripwire on the ground, and he stumbles over it and falls. Jenkins is now on his back on the ground. The two men rise up above him with knives like, ready to stab him in the chest. It cuts to Sam, but we can hear Jenkins scream.

-

G: So, we go to Dean and Kathleen holding coffee. Which I find so funny, that like, Kathleen, look, this felon is-

C: I'll buy him coffee!

G: Yeah, let's buy coffee! Let's have some coffee.

So Dean says, like, "I don't mean to press my luck, but..." And then Kathleen is like, "Oh, your luck is so pressed." And this is like, a recurring thing that Dean says throughout the episode. So that's fun.

And Dean asks, like, "Why are you helping me out, anyway?" Kathleen then reveals her backstory, which is that, three years ago, her brother Riley went missing, just like Sam. They were not able to find him. She says, I know what it feels like to feel responsible for someone, and for them... and then she cuts herself off. And then she says, "Come on. Let's keep at it."

So they pull over to like, a little side road. Dean like, steps out of the car, but Kathleen tells him that he's not coming with her. But Dean is like, insisting that, "No, I'll go with you, I'll go with you, it's fine, it's fine." So Kathleen, like, makes him promise that they would go together, but Dean will let Kathleen take the lead and won't do anything that will, you know, harm them, etc etc. Kathleen tells Dean to shake on it. So as Dean goes in for the shake, she cuffs him, and then attaches him to the car, and then walks away.

C: It's fun. I enjoyed that.

G: This is like, a common thing that people do, right? Like, in media, at least.

C: I feel like it is. Yeah, like, I've seen it happen in plenty of shows. Dean should have watched even more TV than he already does to avoid falling for that one.

-

C: Kathleen's now walking into the woods and sees the house that we saw earlier. She knocks on the door, and a little girl comes out. She's got like, straggly hair, and she's like, got dirt on her. She's like a perfect little evil horror girl. Her vibes are impeccable.

Yeah, she seems to not really be used to interaction with people, or just sort of is talking kind of awkwardly. Kathleen asks who she is, and the girls, "Who are you?" Kathleen introduce herself, and the girl says, that her name is Missy, and that her mom is dead, and her dad's not home. Kathleen asks if she can come in, but Missy says no, and Kathleen is like, "Okay, then like, here," and shows her picture of Sam and is like, "Have you seen this guy?" And Missy start smiling.

G: Yes! Go, Missy!

C: Kathleen's like "What?" And Missy says, "That's gonna hurt." And behind Kathleen, this guy hits her in the head with a shovel, and she falls on the ground. It's so good.

G: Yeah, it's so fun.

C: And, yeah. Yeah. The dad's like, "Hey, Missy, go tell your brothers that I want to see them," and Missy in her like, evil little evil girl voice is like, "Yes, Daddy," and walks away.

This is an episode where I really wish I'd watched a lot more horror media than I have. 'Cause like, I feel like this is definitely borrowing from a lot of iconic movies out here, and I just don't know what they are. Have you watched much horror?

G: I haven't seen much horror 'cause it's not my jam, but I have played Red Dead Redemption, as we know, because I love mentioning this video game.

C: Yeah. Right.

G: But it's just that, you know, there are two American things that I'm really into that are like, defined by their American-ness. And it's Supernatural and Red Dead Redemption.

C: Right.

G: So, like, this episode is like, the combination of the two. Because it's like, backwoods America.

C: Um, I definitely like this episode from a horror perspective. I do, I think, have a bit of an issue with, like, backwoods horror and the way that the Benders are portrayed.

G: Mm-hm.

C: Like, you know, like, during the hunt. The brothers laugh. They don't talk. We don't hear the Benders talk until way later in the episode. Like, they're portrayed in a very animalistic way, which is like fine and fun because, like, they're hunters or whatever, but like, I don't know. Just their whole portrayal feels quite classist. The way that Jenkins, is like, "Ah, fucking country people, blah blah blah," the way Dean later makes a joke about like, country people like, engaging them incest, like, it's just all... yeah, I don't know. Like, can't they just be people? Can't they just be people?

G: Yeah, like, this is what I'm going to say. Like, for an episode where the whole point is that people are fucking monsters, you really made a point to make the people as un-people-like as you possibly can.

C: Right. And like, specifically, like, poor, and unsanitary because they're poor.

G: Yes.

C: Like, I don't know. I just think that like, for example, I know that season 7 has like, attempts some kind of anti-capitalism rhetoric with Dick Roman being the bad guy, but like, Derek Roman is a Leviathan. Like, he's a monster who literally devours people, and they sort of use that as like, a metaphor for capitalism or whatever, but like, here where they're having actual people be monsters, yeah, they're making them as un-person as possible. Like, I wish- I wish that if they were doing an episode about people being monsters, that it would be about like, power and wealth making people monstrous, not just like, these people being quote unquote "crazy" as Dean keeps calling them.

-

G: So we cut to a scene that is often giffed. A while ago, we were just talking about Dean sucking dick but like, [laughs] I see this scene like, giffed a lot so that it looks like Dean's dick is getting sucked. So like, good for him.

C: [laughing] I don't think I've seen this.

G: You haven't? I'll try to look for that and show you. [C laughs] But like, basically, the scene is, Dean is trying to figure out how to unlock his cuffs. So he's reaching out to the side of the car for the antenna off the bar. So he's reaching out for that, and it's like, kind of comedic because, like, he can't reach it, and it's quite funny, and he's stretching a lot. But then, he starts hearing noises basically going through his direction, and he realizes that "the people probably took Kathleen and are gonna take me now."

So he very urgently like, gets the wire and and picks his cuffs, but the brothers are getting nearer and nearer. And it's like, a little suspense, like, "Are they gonna catch Dean? Are they not gonna catch Dean?" But they don't because Dean was able to uncuff himself and run away.

Jared and Lee, which are the two brothers that are hunting these people-

C: [laughing] It's so funny that one of them is named Jared.

G: Yeah.

- Go into the car, and then they're laughing and talking about how they've never seen their father that angry before, but, also, the police have never followed them before, so this is a first for them.

-

C: So now we're back to the barn, and Kathleen's there in a cage. They've like, taken her uniform, and her hair's all messed up, which- eugh- is bad to look at.

G: Yeah, why take her uniform? Why leave her in a shirt?

C: Yeah, like, what was- like, what was the point? I don't know.

G: Well, they also took Sam's jacket.

C: Well, we also see that they took Sam's jacket, right.

G: So it's not a misogyny.

C: Yeah it's not a- yeah, no. We got- we got Sam's tits, and we got Kathleen's tits. Hashtag equality.

G: So true.

C: Kathleen sees Sam and is like, "Oh, are you Sam Winchester? Your cousin's looking-"

G: Your cousin Greg.

C: [laughing] Yeah, your cousin Greg! "Your cousin Greg's looking for you." And Sam's like, "Oh, yay we're gonna be rescued. Where is he?" And Kathleen's like, "So I, um, handcuffed him to my car..." And Sam's like, "Well, goddamn it."

And then the door opens, and we see like, two boots come in, and a pair of jeans, and we're like, "Oh no, is it the Benders, or is it Dean?" And we pan up-

G: It looks immediately like Dean.

C: Um, I feel like when it was at the boots, I wasn't sure. When we saw the bottom of the jacket, I was like, "Ah, okay, it's him."

G: Yeah, you see the bowlegs, and you're like, "That's fucking Dean." [laughs]

C: Oh, yeah, I guess I'm not as much of a bowleg connoisseur as you, so I couldn't tell.

Yeah, so it's Dean, and he sees Sam, and he's really relieved. He says, "Sam, are you hurt? It's so good to see you." And then he sees Kathleen there. He's like, "Oh, yeah, I know a trick or two. I got out of the cuffs." And he's trying to figure out the locks, but he can't really. Seems like there has to be a key that he has to find. He and Sam talk a bit about the Jenkins- um, about how they're just people, and I'm sure Kathleen's being really weirded out about how they're talking like it could have not been people. Sam mentions the whole Jenkins situation and how it doesn't make any sense, and yeah, Dean says, "With our usual playmates, there's rules, there's patterns. But with people, they're just crazy." Booo.

G: I mean, there were patterns, with this one. Like, you were able to find it.

C: Right. I just feel like, there was like, so much interesting stuff that could have done with this episode, given that it's a "people are the real monsters" episode, given that it's about a family of hunters, but I just feel like they really- they really dropped the ball on this one.

And Dean says, "Whenever they kidnap someone, they seem to take their car too, so there's a bunch of cars in the back," and Kathleen asks if he saw a black Mustang about 10 years old. And Dean's like, "Yeah," so that was her brother's, and he definitely got hunted to death.

So Dean heads out to find the keys, and Sam tells him to be careful.

-

G: So Dean is walking inside a room, and it's very dark, so he has his flashlight out. And he's looking around, and there are jars and jars of things. [laughs]

C: Yeah, like [in unison] organs.

G: -right? Like, body parts.

C: It's really fun how they just pulled in every single horror movie aesthetic into this episode. They're like, "We're only gonna get one non-paranormal episode, so let's have like, the backwoods, let's have the hunting, let's have organs in jars," like, there's so much happening.

G: He continues walking around, and he sees Polaroids of basically the two brothers, Jared and Lee, standing next to dead bodies.

Oh! The transcript says one of them is Jenkins. I didn't notice that. I thought it was just some random guy.

C: Yeah. No, so remember, Dean picks up the photo, and he flips it over, so he can see the face better.

G: Yeah.

C: And it's so that we and he know that they done got Jenkins.

G: No, I thought it was just a random guy, still! [laughs]

C: No, no. Yeah, I mean, his facial hair is pretty clearly Jenkins.

G: I have face blindness for white men.

C: Yeah, that was John Shiban, actually. [both laugh]

G: I think that was- it could be John Shiban. It could be Jeremy Carver. It could be Robert Berens. We don't know! [C laughs]

So he says the line again. [laughs] And he says it by saying, "I'll say it again." [C laughs] Which I thought was so funny, like, yeah, we get it!

C: Self-aware king.

G: So he says, "I'll say it again, demons I get. People are crazy." Boo.

C: Booo.

G: So he goes upstairs, and then, there is old-timey music playing. It's very atmospheric, actually. This scene was very fun.

C: Yeah. It's fun.

G: Papa Bender- [laughs] as the transcript says, which I think is so funny. The dad, the father of the family, is in the kitchen, and he is cutting apart something. So we can assume it's like, human remains, I guess.

C: Yeah, I wish we got to like, properly see him carving up Jenkins's corpse. Like, they could have gone harder with the cannibalism this episode.

G: Yeah.

C: Like, that would have been fun to see.

G: Like, we could have seen a Hannibal-esque scene where-

C: Yeah, exactly.

G: - he cuts up the foot of the person. That would have been fun.

C: I feel like this episode is fairly reminiscent of- I haven't watched Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I read the Wikipedia summary after I watched Tinashe's latest music video. [G laughs] So, I feel like maybe they thought that if they went too hard on the cannibalism thing, people would be like, "This is so clearly just Texas Chainsaw Massacre."

G: Yeah.

C: Um, but also, yeah, it would have been really fun to see like, a family dinner scene where like, they're serving up Jenkins.

G: At some point, Dean is walking, and he bumps into some chimes. And at first he's like, "Oh, it's chimes, I have to shut this thing so that Papa Bender doesn't hear me." And then he takes a double look- oh my god. They're bones. So like, there's jaws and skulls, and that's what the chimes were made off. So, you know. Very fun, very horror.

C: So fun. Yeah. Who do you think in the families is like, making all the bone furniture?

G: [laughs] What's your guess? I would say Lee because he has the name that I like the most.

C: Yeah, okay, yeah. I'll go with that. I think Lee works. Um... hm. I guess I've been wondering what Missy's role in this family tradition is. Like, I'm assuming she's kind of too young so far to like join into the hunt.

G: Later on, like, Papa Bender says, "We pass this down from father to son." And then they pan specifically to Missy which I was like, "Huh. Hm."

C: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's not her turn yet to hunt people, but I feel like maybe they let her play around with the bones a bit to get acclimated to the whole corpses thing. Yeah, so I think maybe she made the windchime.

G: He keeps on walking, and then he notices, you know, some keys. So he goes for it, and then he notices some other things, like a jar full of teeth.

C: He gets distracted. He's like, picking up the jar of teeth instead of just grabbing the box of keys. Like, come on, Dean.

G: Yeah, and then he hears a creak behind him. So he turns around, and then he sees a little girl. Missy. He sees Missy.

C: [laughs] Yeah, and we know she's a badass bitch, but he doesn't.

G: Yeah. And he says, "Okay, okay, I'm not gonna hurt you." And then she says, with a little smile, "I know." [delighted laugh]

C: "I know."

G: Go, Missy!

C: Soo good!

G: And then she- And then she throws her little knife towards Dean's jacket, so it sticks him to the wall, basically. And then we start a little fight scene.

Missy calls her father, and Jared and Lee starts attacking Dean. So, yeah. It's just a fight scene. I have no idea how to describe it.

C: It's, yeah, it's pretty fun to watch. They're getting thrown around the room a lot.

G: It's fun to watch, but it's not like, a describable fight scene. Like, they're just fighting, because, you know, other fight scenes in Supernatural, like, Sam cuts his hand with the- with the knife, like, etc etc. But this is one just whatever.

C: Dean gets thrown against a wall, and there's like, blood on his face, and he's sort of on the ground.

G: Yeah.

C: And he's like, "I'm gonna kick your ass first. And then yours."

G: And then Daddy Bender hits him at the back of the head, and he falls to the ground.

-

C: So now Dean's tied up in a chair, and the family is around him, talking about how fun it would be to funt--sorry how fun it would be to hunt him.

G: Oh, I have a- I have a remark. They never say “Bender” in the episode, no?

C: Um, does Missy ever- yeah, Missy doesn't say her last name, right? She just says, "I'm Missy."

G: Yeah. So they never say "Bender." So did they just go, "Oh, fuck, we didn't put Bender in the episode, but like, we already have the title, so might as well"? [C laughs] Or is "The Benders" a reference?

C: Not that I'm aware of.

G: Yeah, me too. This is what we get for being so uncultured. [laughs]

C: Ugh. Sorry for not being white! [both laugh]

So, uh, yeah, they're talking about how fun it would be to hunt Dean, and Dean goes, "You've gotta be kidding me. That's what this is about? You yahoos hunt people?" Dean, what do you do? Like, with your time. Huh? Like, what do you do?

G: No, I guess, like, the difference between them is that, you know, these people enjoy it and, like Sam and Dean are scared, you know? Like, they make a point-

C: I'm a- okay, I'm aware of how much they enjoy torturing that vampire in the finale, though, like-

G: No, yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

C: Like, they- currently, they are scared.

G: Yeah, like, they make a point at the beginning of the show that Sam and Dean are, like, scared of hunting, and Sam specifically gets nightmares from it, right? Remember? But, [both laugh] as we proceed into the show, they start- they start losing that like, self-awareness that this is a terrible job.

C: Yeah.

G: And like, it does become more and more like they're the fucking Benders, but for monsters. And sometimes for people! [laughs]

C: And sometimes for people.

Yeah, so, yeah, the dad asks, "You ever killed before?" And Dean says, "That depends on what you mean." I love how the dad doesn't like, ask about that. He's not like, "Oh, you mean you stepped on an ant once?" Like, he's just too caught up in his fun little monologue.

G: Yeah, he doesn't fucking care about what Dean has to say. And you know what? Good for him.

C: Yeah. He doesn't care about Dean's- right, ah, I love- yeah, what if, like, he caught someone, and [laughing] they were like, "Yeah, I love killing people all the time. I do it so often." Like, would he still keep going? [both laugh]

So, yeah he says, "I've hunted all my life, just like my father and his before him. I've hunted deer and bear, I even got a cougar once. But the best hunt is human. There's nothing like it. Holding their life in your hands... seeing the fear in their eyes, just before they go dark. Makes you feel powerful alive." It's a good villain monologue.

G: Yeah.

C: Good for him.

Um, and Dean calls him "a sick puppy." [laughs]

G: Go, Dean.

C: Like, they're allowed to say "bastard" on Supernatural, right?

G: Yeah, yeah, they are.

C: "You're a sick puppy."

The dad says- this is where we find out that he gives the people that he hunts a weapon on purpose to give them a fighting chance so that the hunt's more fun. And he calls it "a family tradition that's passed down, father to son," and yeah, as that's being said, the camera pans specifically to Missy. Who isn't even like, gonna get her bossass bitch murder era 'cause she's probably just- I don't know, going somewhere else after this episode. Ugh.

Yeah, and he says that they only really hunt one or two people a year. Usually, the cops don't go after them. The dad asks if Dean is with, quote unquote, "that pretty cop," which begins the sort of gendered language used against Kathleen that continues throughout this episode that makes me highly uncomfortable.

G: But, like, they're making it, you know, they're making the villain say it.

C: Yeah, they're- like it's bad on purpose. Yeah, like, I get that, but also it's- I just think it's striking that Sam and Dean don't get insulted at all by the Benders. Like, the Benders are very big on dehumanizing people and feeling like they have power above them, but they never really insult Sam or Dean, they just try to kill them. With Kathleen, they try to kill her, and they call her a bitch like, 20 times.

G: Yeah. Also, like, when like, when we see the pictures, right? It's all men. So like, probably they don't get like, a female victim a lot, so that's why, like, they get one, and they're like, super into it for some fucking reason.

C: Dean's like, "Okay, I'll answer your questions if you promise not to make me into an ashtray." This doesn't go over well.

G: [laughing] Oh, yeah, because he gets burned later.

C: [laughing] Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, like, the dad takes out a hot poker from the fireplace and is ready to burn Dean's eye out.

G: In an amazing shot that they linger on for too long. So like, you're aware it's amazing, but you're also like, "Come on, you're showing off." [both laugh]

C: Oh, Peter Ellis.

Yeah and then- this is when Dean makes the joke that makes no sense, which is, "How about it's not nice to marry your sister?" Which is like, okay, cool, I'm glad we're continuing to make fun of country people for being poor and quote unquote "uncultured." That's fun. But also, Dean said anti-Wincest king. [both laughing] Dean has a Tumblr blog, and he writes "Wincests DNI" in the bio.

And the dad's like, "You have to tell me if the cops are gonna come looking for you, because I need to protect my family." And Dean's like, "Oh, eat me. No, wait, you actually might." Like, that wasn't even a good joke, Dean. But I get it, whatever, like, there's a hot poker near your eye. You can't come up with the best jokes yet.

And then this is where Papa Bender says, "You think this is funny? You brought this down on my family." Seriously, like, again, they could've gone way harder on the parallels with like, hunting family that will do anything to protect their own, but they just sort of breeze past it. Ugh.

He's like, "Okay, well, let's- we're gonna hunt tonight. And Dean, you get to pick who's getting hunted. The boy or the cop." Which puts Dean in a pretty difficult position, but like, I was Dean, [laughing] I would have just said "the cop," like, immediately like, I wouldn't even-

G: [laughing] Yeah, like, I- I just watched this episode recently, and even I was like, "Oh, he's gonna say the cop, right?" And then he didn't, and I was like, "Oh, okay."

C: Well, like, I know he says Sam because he thinks-

G: Sam can make it.

C: Like, "Oh, maybe Sam can take these guys," but like, I would not have risked it. I would've been like, "Oh, you're asking me? Great. Um, yeah, go for Kathleen." [laughing] Like, go right ahead.

Dean's trying to refuse to choose, and Papa Bender burns his chest with the hot poker, and then puts it right near his eye. Dean starts freaking out, and says, "Yeah, take the guy, take the guy." The dad sends his sons out to do it, but he says, like, "Don't let him out of the cage, just shoot him right there." Which obviously freaks Dean out. And then the dad continues, "When you're done with the boy, shoot the bitch too." Eugh. Eugh. I think, specifically, I wrote down here, "Don't talk like that in front of your daughter!" [G laughs] Like-

G: Yeah!

C: Missy's right there! Like, come on.

G: Be a good influence, Papa Bender.

C: Exactly. Like, the murder thing is like, chill, like, whatever. Like, family business, go ahead, I'm not gonna go against your customs here. But like, drink a little bit of respect women juice in front of your 13-year-old daughter, Like, come on!

Oh, I was just gonna say, and, yeah, the reason that he wants them both to be shot is that he doesn't want them to have the chance to get out because more cops might start coming.

-

G: Yeah. So Lee enters the barn. He opens Sam's cage, which is so unnecessary! Just shoot Sam. Literally just shoot him.

And then he opens the- Sam's cage, and then he aims the gun at Sam.

C: We see Sam, like, grab the bracket.

G: Yeah. [laughs] For what? For what is the bracket?

C: I mean, it worked.

G: But we don't it work.

C: Yeah, but we assume that he got the better of Lee with the bracket.

G: Yeah, so he grabs the bracket. And then we cut back to the house with Dean and Papa Bender and Missy and the other guy. And we hear screaming. Dean says, "If you hurt my brother, I'll kill you. I'll kill you all." Fun.

C: Yeah, he's yelling really loud. It's- it's a good scene. I enjoy when Dean gets a bit unhinged.

G: So, Papa Bender starts calling out for Lee. We cut back to the cage, where Sam is- has taken the upper hand, and he's grabbing the gun. Sam tries to fire the gun, but it doesn't work, so he throws it away and basically imprisons Lee in the cage.

C: Yeah, also the whole time, his like, chest is heaving up and down, and you can really see his titties through the gray T-shirt.

G: This is his hot boy moment.

G: So, in the living room, because Lee is not responding, Papa Bender, like, asks the other brother to go with him to the barn. So they go. They find Lee unconscious. And they try to open the lights, but apparently, Sam like, blew the fuse or something.

So they go to look around the barn for Sam and Kathleen. Sam is like, located in some haze, and Kathleen opens a cabinet, which she closes immediately, in a shot that looks so out of place. Jared goes up to the cabinet and starts shooting it because he thinks that Kathleen is in there. He opens the cabinet, and it's empty, and then Kathleen jumps him.

C: Yeah, like, from like, like another floor of the barn. Like, she falls on top of his back. It's a fun shot.

G: Yeah, she jumps him, and then, like, they start tackling each other. But Jared ends up having the upper hand afterwards, and he's about to shoot Kathleen when Sam comes in.

C: Yeah. Also, he specifically calls her "You stupid bitch," like, they're really doing this here.

G: So, there's like, a bluff thing that happens when Sam attacks Jared. Because, like, he attacks Jared, and Jared is about to shoot him, but Sam ducks, so Jared ends up shooting Papa Bender instead. So Papa Bender’s on the ground. And then Sam grabs the gun and hits Jared in the face, and they all collapse, and then, we cut to black.

C: This is a metaphor for how Sam Winchester the character like, killed Jared Padalecki the guy by being the bestest little guy ever and rendering Jared Padalecki obsolete.

G: [laughing] So true.

-

G: So Sam takes Jared and then puts him in the same cage as Lee. And then he locks the cage. But Papa Bender’s still on the floor of the barn, and Kathleen is pointing a gun at him. She tells Sam that he can go look for Dean and save him from Missy.

Kathleen remains behind, and she's talking to Papa Bender. She says, "You killed my brother. Why? I just want to know why?" Papa Bender says, "Because it's fun." And then Kathleen fires the gun.

Okay. So what do you think of this scene?

C: I mean, cops should not just kill people, but like, for like, in the horror genre, like, people kill people all the time, and it's fun. [laughs]

G: Yeah.

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: I don't know, it just made me uncomfortable because later on, she tells Sam and Dean that he fought for his life.

C: Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.

G: Like, he fought for his life-

C: Yeah, no, she's saying that she killed him out of self-defense, and like, she didn't. She did it out of revenge.

G: Yeah.

C: And that's not okay.

G: Like, it just reminded me of--because, like, you know, like, war on drugs in the Philippines, like, every single day, we would get like, police officers saying that like, "Oh, nanlaban, like, this person acted def- tried to defend themselves, so like, whatever, we shot him." And it's just-

C: Right.

G: It took me back, and I was like, "Okay, this is quite unpleasant." But I can get that, like, the mechanics of a horror genre is different. So I'm not saying that like, "Oh, you know." You know what I'm saying.

C: No, I mean it is... yeah, it is uncomfortable still, but I guess it's- it was expected.

G: Yeah.

C: So, yeah it was like, bad, but like, expectedly bad. Not unexpectedly bad, which is a different emotion.

G: Yes.

C: Like the fucking half blackface hunting scene.

-

C: Sam and Dean are walking out of the house, and they mentioned that they locked Missy in a closet. [laughs] Um, and yeah, she lies to them, and tells them that Papa Bender was trying to escape, and she shot him. But all of them sort of look at each other, so I feel like they're all aware that she's lying.

G: Yeah.

C: And the police are about to show up to this house, and Kathleen says, "Hey, you should probably head out before they get here." And Dean asks- well, he says, "I don't mean to press our luck, but we're kind of in the middle of nowhere. Could we catch a ride?" And Kathleen says, "Nope. Start walking!" And Sam's, like, a polite little boy. He's like, "Sounds great to me! Thanks!" And Dean apologizes for what happened to Kathleen's brother. Yeah, she starts tearing up, and she says that "It was really hard, not knowing what happened to him. I thought it would be easier once I knew the truth, but it isn't, really." Which, ugh.

Okay. Mm- I feel like- okay, so we've talked about how women in Supernatural do not seem like people besides Cassie and Missouri. I feel like Kathleen seems more like a person than a lot of other women in Supernatural. Have you gotten that vibe too, or am I just- is that just me?

G: I think her actress is really good.

C: Yeah, yeah.

G: And like, she was able to make the character feel alive. About the writing, I don't think she was given enough.

C: Yeah, she could sell her even though she didn't make sense.

G: Yeah. I mean, she made some sense, and like, I wasn't say it's the writing. I would say it's the actor.

C: Okay, so yeah, I'm glad that it was mostly the part of the acting and not the writing that made her seem more like a person. Because I know later, like, Supernatural has this bad habit of like, "Oh, we'll make some women people, but like, just the cops. Like, just Jody and Donna." So I was like, "Oh, god does this start early?" But no, I think her writing was still subpar, so this is more of an acting choice that caused her to be more like, sympathetic or whatever. Yeah.

G: Yeah. Like, when when she was standing there, and she- they were all like, kind of nodding at each other when he says that he shot the guy because he tried to escape, it's like, "Oh, okay, so like, I ca-n I can empathize," you know, like, the acting is actually really good. So yeah.

C: Finally, we cut to, like, this high shot of Sam and Dean walking down a road in the dark. Dean says, "Never do that again." Sam says, "Do what?" Dean says, "Go missing like that." Yeah, which is sweet. Like, obviously Sam can't stop being kidnapped, but, you know, it's Dean's way of showing concern. Um, yeah, Sam says, "You were worried about me," and like, is making fun of him for it, which is, I guess, par for the course in Supernatural.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah, and Dean's like, "if you vanish like that again, I'm not looking for you," and they're teasing each other. Sam's like, "Heard that you got beat up by a 13-year-old girl. Getting rusty there, kiddo." And they're just sorta laughing and talking as they walk off. And that's the end of the episode.

-

G: Okay, I have a question. Was it ever explained how they took the people in the first place, like, under the car? How does that work? Did they just sneak under the car?

C: I don't know. They were just- they just dragged them under the car, I guess. I don't know.

G: [laughs] It's so unnecessary, like, the car thing is so unnecessary.

C: Well it's just so that we don't know that it's people until way later, but I guess there are better ways to show it. Because I know- isn't-

G: "Gimme Shelter." Like, the person is human. The person who's doing the things is human. And they also do like, the whole, gets taken by a teddy bear thing to like, lure you away from the idea that it's a human. [C laughs] God.

C: That's very fun.

G: Yeah.

So, anyway, that's how the episode ends. So what did you think of this one, Crystal?

C: I mean, yeah, I feel like- this one felt like a different genre than Supernatural usually is. And I feel like, like I- as someone who hasn't engaged in much horror, I found this horror pretty fun, but I also, you know, as we've mentioned, have an issue with just the "backwoods poor country people being evil and craaazy" being a horror trope in the first place.

G: Yeah. I'm going to say that, you know, how, in "Faith," we were complaining that only the beginning was contrary to a Supernatural episode, but the rest is just a case episode? I think this is an example of one where the beginning is contrary to like, how Supernatural usually goes, and it continues on for the rest of the episode. So it doesn't feel like just a case episode. Like, it feels like there's a spice to it. [laughs] So I thought that was really fun, and again, [laughing] I think this episode is better than "Faith." I'm so mean! [C laughs] But like, it's the one I can compare it to.

C: I can't wait until we get to "Dog Dean Afternoon" and you say, "I think this episode is better than 'Faith.'" [both laughing]

G: No, it's just- I'm comparing the two because they have like, similar premises, right?

C: Yeah.

G: Of like, Dean almost dies, and then Sam is taken, and they're- yeah. It's like, kind of similar in that it's not just a typical monster of the week episode, and so far, these are the only two that we have gotten so far that isn't also plot-heavy.

-

G: So, uh, Best Line/Worst Line.

C: I liked Papa Bender’s whole [in unison] villain monologue.

G: Yeah, it's so much fun.

C: Yeah. "Best hunt is human. Holding their life in your hands, seeing the fear in their eyes, just before they go dark. Makes you feel powerful alive." Like, hell yeah, dude!

G: Um, I would say my best line is- [laughing] I'm gonna go the comedic route and say, "I lost some weight, and I got that Michael Jackson disease." It's pretty funny. [C laughs] It was so f- like, I laughed out loud, which is something that I rarely do in Supernatural episodes, even though I enjoy it a lot. Because usually, my reaction to Supernatural is like, head in hands, or like, [pained sound] or just like, random noises, you know. But I never- I rarely like, go like, "hahaha, that's funny," so. That one was pretty funny.

C: Yeah. I mean, it will never be "Dude, you fugly," though.

G: [laughs] Exactly.

G: Okay, so what's your worst line?

C: Uh, just probably every time they call Kathleen a bitch. It's just not pleasant. Oh, and also, the like, "How about it's not nice to marry your sister?" Like, that came out of fucking nowhere, dude.

G: Yeah. Uh, but it is like, a common trope, right?

C: Yeah, no it's very much like, "Oh, like, oh people from like, Alabama are all marrying their cousins" or something. It's like, a common joke, yeah.

G: Yeah.

C: Though they're in Minnesota right now. It's just about the, the backwoods.

G: Uh, I would say, like, my worst line is also every time they call Kathleen a bitch. It just made me- yeah, uncomfortable.

C: Yeah, like, "You hurt my family, I'm gonna bleed you, bitch," like, shut up. Ew. Stop. Eugh.

G: Yeah, because, like, like these people are, you know, murderers, right. So like, fun. But like, when you insert the gendered language, it does feel like, you know, a gendered offense.

C: Yeah.

G: So, yeah. Not fun. But like, the murder is pretty fun, so. [laughs]

C: Yeah. Big fan of murder. I support murder, I think that people should murder all the time. Everyone listening, since you don't know how to think about media critically, I demand that you go out and murder 10 people today. Thank you.

G: [laughs] Okay, I think our audience is smarter than that. [laughs]

C: They're Supernatural fans. Say I, a Supernatural fan.

G: No! Noo!

C: I know I murder 10 people every day.

G: Yeah. It's part of your diet.

C: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I am a big fan of cannibalism. [laughing] Anyway, yeah.

-

G: Okay, so IMDB rating. What's your IMDB score.

C: Huh. I'm not sure. 'Cause I thought this was pretty fun, and I feel like, typically- typically episodes that break a little from the case format do get higher scores, right? So... But also, I feel like the watchers may be more- they might know horror tropes better and therefore find this episode a little boring, or like, it's stealing stuff. So, I don't know. Like, an 8.4?

G: Hm. I think 8.4 is good. I'll- I'll go with you on this one.

C: Okay.

G: Because I was thinking 8.3 is like, a bit too low, but 8.5 is a bit too high. So, like, 8.4 it is.

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, let's look it up.

[laughing]

C: What. How far are we?

G: It's 8.3.

C: Oh! Ugh, you shouldn't have let me sway you.

G: Yeah.

C: Oh, I just saw a trivia thing that said that in the police records, it lists both Sam and Dean as 6'4.

G: When Dean is 5'3 in real life?! Come on, guys.

C: Yeah! When Dean is literally 5'2 in real life? Like, come on, guys.

Wait. Is Sam literally 6'4? Jesus Christ.

G: Yeah, I think so. I mean Greg- Cousin Greg is 6'7.

C: Yeah, but like, he's Cousin Greg, he's allowed to be freakishly tall.

G: "It has the tension of a real crime film." I actually agree with that.

C: Yeah, yeah, like, I feel like some of the Dean and Kathleen scenes felt like, a sort of crime procedural genre type thing, and then the rest of it felt pretty horror, so yeah, it was- it was fairly good for the genres that it was borrowing.

G: One of these says "too darn trope-driven," which is our first negative review. Which, I guess so.

C: Yeah, I feel like, it probably was. I just am not as familiar with the tropes involved.

Oh, yeah, no, okay, someone said, "Really? Why do we get the crazy hillbilly episode?" So true. Oh, and the person's saying that they live near Hibbing, Minnesota, [G laughs] and it doesn't look like it at all, and also, "Why do they have Southern accents in Minnesota?" [laughing] Yeah, no, literally why do they have Southern accents in Minnesota?

G: Minnesota is, um, wait, I'll guess, I'll guess. I would say it's... Midwest.

C: Um, Minnesota is fairly northern- well, no, actually- Actually, I thought Donna had a-

G: Yeah.

C: Okay, yeah, okay, so Minnesota's in the upper Midwest, so yeah.

G: Wow. I'm so good.

C: We were both right. Yeah, good job.

G: [laughing] I'm basically American at this point. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, no, right. This person's right, yeah. They said, "Why is it assumed that because we're people in northern Minnesota, we're crazy enough to kill people for the heck of it? Why do we get that stereotype?" So true, IMDB person.

G: [laughing] Yeah, you should give it to the Southern people!

C: [laughing] Exactly! Go be classist towards people in the South instead.

G: Uh, to clarify, [laughs] that- that was a joke.

C: Yeah.

G: Yes.

C: Yeah, all classism is bad, but I also think that this person deserves to feel angry at this portrayal of northern Minnesota.

G: Yeah. Okay!

C: Yeah.

-

G: So, I think that's it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next time, we will be talking about Season 1, Episode 16: "Shadow." Leave us a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts!

C: Follow us on social media, and also look at the Supernatural writers face gradient. We are on Twitter at twitter.com/BeautiesPodcast and on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #babpod, B-A-B-P-O-D.

G: Thank you to everyone who has tipped us in ko-fi. And you can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

[popwasabi]

“Who are you?” The scene that defines Chadwick Boseman’s legacy

Yesterday, the world lost a bright and promising, burgeoning talent in Chadwick Boseman.

I had wondered privately for a while if something was wrong with him, as others had as well online, as he appeared increasingly sicker with each interview he gave over the last two years. I thought maybe I had been looking too much into it, not wanting to jump to conclusions about who he was but now gravely we all know why.

The much too young star of films such as “42,” “Marshall,” and of course, “Black Panther” had been fighting a largely private battle with colon cancer for four years.

It was devastating hearing this news yesterday, the man who undeniably left behind a legacy of playing prominent black heroes, both historical and fictional, passed away just as he was starting to truly hit it big. When you begin to realize the man was dealing with cancer as he performed physically demanding roles in the MCU you begin to see the character and determination of a man unwilling to quit in the face of true adversity.

But he clearly wasn’t just doing it for himself when he continued making and promoting NINE more movies despite his diagnosis, afterall no one would’ve blamed the guy for taking it easy these past four years. He’s had many scenes that define his legacy over his all too short career but I feel it can really be summed up in one particular moment from by far his most famous film; “Black Panther.”

Those who know me or have read my work know that I have a fairly cynical relationship with the Marvel Cinematic Universe. While I would not say most of them are “bad” per se, I would say a ton of them are largely interchangeable action comedies with pretty straightforward messages about good vs evil for general audiences. They are largely popcorn escapism and though there is nothing technically wrong with that, I was starved for an MCU film that was sincere about its story finally and had something real to say.

Enter “Black Panther” in early 2018.

“Black Panther” was everything I had long been waiting for in the MCU; a film with a real sense of vision and theme, a killer soundtrack, great supporting characters, a complicated and nuanced villain, and a story that didn’t feel the need to add a joke after every single scene like more typical MCU movies. The tip of that spear of course was Chadwick, who had already proved to be a great Black Panther in one of the few other sincere Marvel flicks “Civil War.” His natural charisma, physicality, and dramatic presence in this role made him a huge standout in frankly the best ensemble cast of any superhero movie ever.

The scene that truly sums up not just the mark “Black Panther” left on Hollywood but Chadwick’s own legacy comes at the very end though (the first of three, of course. It’s an MCU movie, afterall).

T’Challa has defeated his usurper cousin Erik Killmonger, his rule restored in Wakanda but clearly a changed man from the story’s beginning as he reckons with the complicated legacy of his father. He travels to Oakland, the birthplace of Killmonger, with his sister Shuri who he explains the crime committed by their father in this place and how it set off the events of the story. He turns to Shuri, tells her that he has decided to help this afflicted community by creating a Wakandan outreach center for the youth to give them a new hope in life. As he says this he decloaks their ship nearby, surprising the youth already in the area who are immediately in awe of it. One of the kids turns to T’Challa, smiling, a sense of inspiration and intrigue brewing inside, and asks “Who are you?” to which the young King simply smiles, then the credits roll.

It’s a simple scene but it truly speaks to the impact left behind by Chadwick and the importance of representation. 

“Black Panther” is hardly the first starring vehicle for a black man, it’s not even the first black super hero movie but what it made it different is it was the first blockbuster to truly lean unapologetically into its African identity to focus on the inspiration of a story centered around that culture. It showed Hollywood that an action blockbuster not just centered on a black star but centered on African culture had vast widespread appeal.

White kids will never have a shortage of white superheroes to grow up with on the big screen; a diverse palette of Supermans, Spider-mans, Captain Americas, and shit we’re even getting our sixth new Batman actor since 1989 soon. But Chadwick gave black kids their first real Superman of their own. 

In the years since this came out, I have seen the influence, at times, firsthand among the youth. I work part-time as a kids martial arts instructor and each Halloween party we’ve held I’ve seen a few more T’Challas among the costumes represented. When I ask kids, black, white, or Asian, what their favorite superhero is, it always warms my heart to see a kid light up when they say “BLACK PANTHER!”

(Seriously, cute AF)

This goes beyond just my anecdotal observations of course; the film grossed a billion dollars, and there are countless videos online of kids yelling “Wakanda forever!” at the top of their lungs while rocking a Black Panther suit or reciting one of the movie’s memorable lines. It’s beautiful because it speaks to that last scene’s key message; inspiration.

Growing up myself, as a half Asian American, there weren’t a ton of role models who looked like me to take inspiration from. I didn’t really understand how much this could affect me until I finally did start seeing people like myself occupy positions of influence. I didn’t start caring for baseball until I saw a slugger named Hideki Matsui smash a couple dingers in a Yankees’ uniform in the early 2000s. I didn’t care much for martial arts, outside my very early youth, until I witnessed a half Japanese Brazilian named Lyoto Machida KO Thiago Silva at UFC 94 in 2009. I didn’t care much for soccer until a striker named Keisuke Honda played out of his mind in the early rounds of the 2010 FIFA World Cup.

Sometimes you gotta see something happen in order to believe and be inspired by it and it’s easier to visualize it when you see someone who looks like you do it. That’s what representation means and why it’s important.

It’s easy for white America to dismiss the need for representation in media when theirs is so saturated in the culture everyday. Cries of “wHaT aBoUt wHiTe HiStORy mOnTH?!” delivered unironically while their history is proudly given front seat consideration in all forms of media, film, and influence every day. This is why it drives me so crazy when a white person tells me “representation isn’t important” because apparently, they “don’t need it.”

Well motherfucker, of course you don’t need it. You fucking got yours already!

(What every non-white person wants to say when confronted with this tired, out of touch argument...)

“Black Panther” delivered a superhero that not only black children could be proud of and love but someone they could draw inspiration from. Kids are going to want to become film directors cause of this movie, actors, stuntmen, martial artists, scientists, engineers, and so many other different things that the world of Wakanda proudly showcases and it’s all thanks to Chadwick’s leading man performance that made it possible.

Some jokes I’ve heard frequently on the internet is that Chadwick was on somewhat of a quest to play every major black role in story-telling history, what with performances as Jackie Robinson, Thurgood Marshall, James Brown, and of course Black Panther. But I think his 2018 speech at his Alma Mater of Howard really explains why he kept looking to play these major positive black roles.

(I encourage you to listen to the whole thing but the part that’s important here begins at 21:55)

Hollywood likes to pigeon hole certain demographics of people (aka non-white) to play stereotypical roles forever until they are proven to be lucrative in different ways (Qualified Immunity of film-making if you will…). Black people largely could mostly play thugs and drug dealers, Latinx can only be gang bosses and poor servants and gardeners, Asians are either kung fu masters or some other offensive perpetual foreigner. And in worst cases no role at all, instead whitewashed for general audiences (aka white folk). 

Chadwick took a stand that the color of his skin did not define who Hollywood narrowly believed he could perform as and set out to play characters and people who could inspire a new generation of African Americans and show the rest of the country that they were more than a stereotype.

When that young kid in that final scene asks, “Who are you?” and T’Challa smiles its because he knows he’s already changing hearts and minds for the future, just as Chadwick did playing this truly inspirational role.

“Black Panther” is not a perfect movie. I could discuss the ways it could’ve been better and even, less problematic in parts on a different day, but the legacy it leaves behind is one that’s undeniably positive and Chadwick was able to make that a reality. Perhaps he understood that if the world knew his diagnosis it would blunt the impact of “Black Panther’s” release, that if little kids and African Americans alike knew their superhero was already dying it would mar the film’s positivity and influence. I can’t speak for the dead obviously, and in no way am I saying one should just push through a cancer diagnosis and keep it secret, but I can see Chadwick understanding what it would mean for the audience if they just believed for as long as possible that they would have their king of Wakanda forever.

As Robert Downey Jr. said on social media last night “He leveled the playing field while fighting for his life.”

Though I will never know him personally, by most measures Chadwick seemed to be exactly the kind of hero he showed up to be on the big screen and his legacy will ultimately be that of one who looked to inspire others, particularly the next generation until his final breath. If that doesn’t make him a hero, I don’t know what does.

Rest in power, King. Wakanda Forever…

(Via BossLogic)

#Chadwick Boseman #rest in power chadwick #eulogy #Black Panther #Ryan Coogler #MCU #Marvel Comics #Marvel #marvel cinematic universe #Stan Lee #comics #super heroes #superman #batman #spider-man #miles morales #Spiderverse #t'challa #jackie robinson #black history #blm #black lives matter #ancestral plane #movie #tv #film #howard university #legacy #black representation

[hydrangeasimagination]

BNHA Incorrect Quotes: My Friends Edition

... Our humor is very weird but I wanted to get some giggles out since these times are tough. But I’d like to keep this blog as somewhat of a safe space and an escape?? It’s nice to not have to think sometimes.

It’s not good for my mental health either since I worry about those outside and fighting this fight and worry about what else could happen and it’s just a big source of anxiety for me.

I support the BLM movement. I support pushing against the system that so readily put us in this space. I support rising up when things are so clearly unfair.

I support this fight.

But we are all human - we are all beings that need a bit to slip into escapism.

I love y’all. Here’s a quick scrib of a boi.

~ Dari

(P.S. My friends and I are 20-21 and the pinnacle of Gen Z humor so lots of death jokes and sex jokes. We’re also potty mouths.)

Edit (11/29/20): Found out rat was an East Asian slur and while I’m Asian myself, I’m changing it. Because ✨no✨.

Driving Bakugo’s Car

Kirishima: That’s a cop.

Kaminari: That’s not a cop.

Kirishima: That’s a cop.

Kaminari: It is not a cop!

Kaminari:

Kaminari: It’s a cop -

Kirishima: We’re gonna get pulled over.

Kaminari: We’re not gonna get pulled over.

Kaminari:

Kirishima:

Kaminari to Bakugo later: We got pulled over.

Why The Heroes Always Win

Midoriya: They’re overwhelming us by the second! There’s too many villains!!

All Might: It’s fine!

All Might, buffing up: They’re bad -

Midoriya, confused: wHA???

Deku vs. Kacchan Part 100

Kirishima: Uh, Bakubro just Snapped me with his location on - he’s really close to your house??

Midoriya: I’m safe in my bed under blankets for now.

Midoriya: If I don’t come back, it’s either he’s killed me or I’ve killed him.

Kirishima

Midoriya:

Midoriya: More news at 7.

Watching Izuku Break His Bones To Fight

Shigaraki:

Shigaraki: Don’t like that, gamer -

Not Technically Untrue

Dabi: Until someone or something kills me 

Dabi: I am immortal.

Dabi: Until then, I’m not about to die while Endeavor is still alive

Denki, nO - ft. the homoerotic things my guy friends say

Bakugo: FUCK YOU

Kaminari: COME FUCK ME YOURSELF, COWARD

Bakugo:

Bakugo: Turn on your fucking location.

Dekusquad Group Chat + Ghosthunting ft. Shinsou

Shinsou: I woke up with these scratches?

Shinsou: I don’t know what caused them.

Iida: Well, if they itch, they’re likely cat scratches. If they are open, I suggest washing and sterilizing.

Uraraka: Did you leave your door open? Was it your cat??

Shinsou: Nope.

Midoriya: Ah, that’s really strange.

Todoroki: It’s the demon you challenged

Tsuyu:... That sounds plausible?

Shinsou: Bitch couldn’t even finish the fucking job?

Iida: STOP IT

Shinsou: Have at me, motherfucker.

Iida: SHINSOU, NO!!!!

Shinsou: SLIT MY THROAT, BET YOU FUCKING WON’T

Todoroki: Mood.

Iida: TODOROKI, STOP ENCOURAGING HIM

Hawks, Please No

Hawks: I went to McDonald's and found out the ice cream machine isn’t working

Endeavor:

Endeavor: Okay, and??

Hawks: I’m not gonna lie.

Hawks: I kinda wanted to commit a war crime.

Stinky

Bakugo, talking about his experience with the League: Their leader, Shigaraki?

Bakugo:

Bakugo: He’s a goddamn noob.

Sunshine Baby

Mirio, after a joke successfully lands: :D

Mirio: I AM COMEDY

Confusion

(based on my very little online presence with lack of face pics)

Hagakure:

Hagakure: HOW

Jirou: What’s up?

Hagakure: You know I’m completely invisible right??

Ashido: Yes?

Hagakure: How I don’t show up in photos?

Yaoroyozu: That is the point of your quirk, is it not?

Tsuyu: If you weren’t, you’d just be quirkless then.

Hagakure: The big joke is that my PFP on every social is just a blank white slate!

Uraraka: Tooru - chan, where are you going with this?

Hagakure: They don’t even know what I look like!?

Hagakure: BUT THEY’RE STILL SENDING ME DICK PICS

Bonus:

Kirishima: What are other ways to explain your dick is hard? I’m... I’m trying to sext my s/o.

Sero: EXPAND DONG

Kaminari: Peepee EXTENDUS

Bakugo:

Bakugo: I hate it here.

#bnha #boku no hero academia #mha #my hero academia #incorrect quotes #Ashido Mina #bakugo katsuki #dabi #hagakure toru #hanta sero #jirou kyoka #Kaminari Denki #kirishima eijiro #takami keigo #hawks #todoroki enji #todoroki shouto #asui tsuyu #shinsou hitoshi #togata mirio #shigaraki tomura #dari writes #endeavor #All Might

[soyouareandrewdobson]

Andy on Asian Animation or SYAC: The Master Review 2

Let’s talk a bit about anime and Dobson’s work relation with it.

I think we can all agree, that starting from the late 90s and early 2000s on, anime and manga became extremely popular in the western world. Sure, Japanese animation was nothing completely new to us (Speed Racer, Nadia-Secret of Blue Water, Samurai Pizza Cats, Sailor Moon, Kimba and Akira e.g. come to my mind as properties already known in the west before 1995) but it really was around this time that thanks to “mainstream” stuff like Dragon Ball and Pokemon people became aware of how different Japanese animation was from western. Eventually resulting in the really good shit (like Cowboy Bebop, Black Lagoon, Kenshin and Heat Guy J) coming over and enriching nerd culture for more than just a few people who knew of it as an obscurity at that point. Now, if you know anything about Dobson, you likely know that his relationship with anime is rather… complicated to say the least. Or, to let him explain it with his own words…

Dobson essentially likes silly and wacky 90s anime. But later on he hated anime in general, because it got too popular and a bad experience with an anime club in college soured his enjoyment of it. Furthermore, he put the blame on his lackluster art style and storytelling capabilities as seen in the likes of Formera, Patty and Alex ze Pirate, on anime in general, while also claiming that Disney pulling the plug on 2D animation is the result of the “anime inspired” Treasure Planet, meaning anime in a sense deprived him of his chance at working at his dream job and “ruining” western animation.

Which to me has always been ignorant as fuck. For starters, I can understand not liking certain stories or genres, either for objective or subjective reasons. But to hate on an entire nation’s form of entertainment (not just individual shows or genres), depriving yourself of the chance of potentially watching a lot of good stuff while also being rather insulting to these other works and people enjoying them? Especially when the stuff you can supposedly “stomach” has been rather simplistic compared to other things?

 Second, blaming Japan for “poisoning” your art style? What, did the ghost of Osamu Tezuka possess you and FORCE you to put sweatdrops on your characters forehead while also going for the rather simplistic character style of Rumiko Takahashi, as well as emulating the slapstick of the likes as Slayers and Ranma ½?

 Next, if he had emulated them successfully, I say he would have actually managed to tell decent enough stories worth to read online. Not create Uncle Peggy aka “Discount Happosai” or the bland proto-Isekai known as Formera.

I mean, let’s give some context here: There have been people who successfully managed to emulate certain anime and manga aesthetics into western animation and make it work. Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten the likes of Avatar-The last Airbender, Samurai Jack, the Animatrix, Thundercats 2011, Super Robot Monkey Hyperforce Go, Kim Possible, W.I.T.C.H, Megas XLR and Wakfu. You know, shows that are actually awesome as hell.

Heck, Dobson’s favorite animated show of the last decade, Steven Universe, is heavily inspired by anime aesthetics to the point of being embarrassing.

 But Dobson… well, he emulated anime aesthetics in his work the same way as these crimes against animation did.

Combined with his general shortcomings as a storyteller it is no wonder his initial comics did not do well.

 Lastly, and sorry for digressing here a bit, but if the Wikipedia entry on Treasure Planet is something to go by, there was no real inspiration by anime involved in making this movie.

Supposedly the idea of making an animated Treasure Planet in outer space movie was already pitched by Ron Clements WAY BACK in 1985 but only came to be after Michael Eisner greenlighted stuff in the late 90s. Design wise the movie was supposed to look 70% traditional and 30% sci-fi inspired and people took inspiration for the art style by illustrators associated with the Brandywine School of Illustration. A western style of illustration established in the 19th century, that had a big impact on the illustration styles for many 19th and early 20th century adventure novels and short stories.

What, is anime supposed to be the only form of animation allowed to have sci fi elements or steampunk in it? Fucks sake, The Lion King and Atlantis, which came out one year earlier to Treasure Planet, were likely more inspired by anime. Don’t believe me? Watch Atlantis and then a certain anime by Studio Gainax called “Nadia-Secret of Blue Water”. Or read up on the controversy surrounding the two.

The truth is, it is not entirely clear what caused Disney to shut down 2D feature film animation in the early 2000s. In fact, if anything, most people put the blame on Michael Eisner and a certain change in the publics taste in movies in general, combined with Disney trying to turn almost every movie they had into a franchise via cheap follow up movies on video and DVD.

And even if Disney did not shut down, are we really supposed to believe that a certain guy with fedora would have made it big at Disney to the point Alex ze Pirate would have been made into a feature film?

But Dobson could never quite understand this and instead of “reinventing” himself properly, he would rant about anime and its fans in one form or another…

 And on the peak of his hissy fit create this little art piece he baptized Anime Sux. Alternatively “West vs East”. Or as I like to call it, slap a jap.

Now, the pic was done in 2008 and Dobson claimed sometimes in the last decade, that he no longer holds his old opinions. Unfortunately, by that point he would also more or less use the chance to vent in his webcomic about anime (or rather its fans), which brings us finally back to SYAC.

 While Dobson never outright thematized in more detail WHY he hates anime and manga in SYAC (likely cause if his comic reasoning was even slightly like his reasoning in his blogs, people would have torn him apart like a bag of paper) he did use the format to punch down on anime fans and their preferences.

 For example, for someone who has a 4chan story going around of having been rather arrogant towards others in college for not liking Ranma ½, Dobson has THIS little college related comic to show off, where he portrays an aspiring manga artist as a delusional jackass.

Then in this strip titled manga, his manga fan is essentially portrayed as a young woman dressing up like a very stereotypical high school anime girl, who is in the wrong for even just DARING to draw her comics in the direction manga are read.

On one hand, I get Dobson’s point. She could be at risk of alienating a market of readers as she is obviously drawing for a western audience. Then again, if she doesn’t draw a traditional western comic but a manga, why shouldn’t she? I mean, as long as she enjoys it, which I assume she does as she seems genuinely just happy when stating that she likes manga, why not let her? Plus, this comic was drawn in the late 2000s. I think by then most people kinda knew how to read from right to left, so Dobson’s claim she would alienate or confuse people is kinda redundant. If anything I find a) Dobson getting angry at her just very petty (just let her have fun) and b) portraying a western manga fan as someone who would be confused by the sheer idea of reading stuff from right to left is also in itself just really dumb and insulting. What is Dobson trying to imply? That anime fans are so stuck in the way they consume certain media, they can’t act according to “western standards” again?

Then there is this strip where yet another female anime fan is essentially portrayed as the embodiment of how “ignorant” manga fans are of the idea of different art styles...

Which becomes rather laughable once Dobson describes his style as a mixture of European, American and  Japanese. Why? Because he is the one oversimplifying things, rather than the anime fan.

You see while anime and manga of all sorts do share certain aesthetics (like the black and white art style, emphasize on the eyes of characters, the way hair is drawn, recurring tropes within certain genres and so on) style wise (both in art and storytelling) there can be severe differences, depending on the artist alone. Akira Toriyama’s style differentiates significantly from the likes of Eichiro Oda, Rumiko Takahashi, Kentaro Miura, Tezuka, Kaori Yuki and so forth.

The same also goes for many western artists. Herge had a significantly different style from Uderzo and Goscinny. Don Rosa has a different style in which he drew Scrooge McDuck than Carl Barks did. Rob Liefeld and Jim Lee draw mainstream superheroes differently compared to how Jack Kirby, George Perez and others did. Heck, Ethan Van Sciver and Jim Lee were closely associated with Green Lantern in the 2000s and look how they differentiate.

 Which btw is the kind of skill level Dobson would have needed to have, to make it in the mainstream industry

So when Dobson says “I draw in a combination of American, Western and Japanese” all I can think is the following: THAT DOESN’T NARROW IT DOWN! WHAT THE HECK HAVE YOU LEARNT IN COLLEGE ABOUT COMICS? WHICH ARTISTS, WORKS AND STORYTELLERS DO YOU TRY TO EITHER EMULATE OR HAVE BEEN INSPIRED BY?

Then there is this little thing…

Where do I even begin? How about the fact that Dobson’s hand in the last panel looks like he has lost a thumb? The fact that the little boy, anime fan or not, is aware of Sae Sawanoguchi, a character from a short lived OVA and anime series from the 90s, which considering his age, I kinda doubt he would be aware off. Unlike Dobson, who got into anime in the 90s and admits in fact within the posts I loaded up earlier, that he had watched the anime in particular, known in the west as Magic User Club.

Then there is the implication by Dobson, that anime is so “corruptive” as a medium, little kids don’t even know the most basic characters in western animation because of it. I expect in a next panel, that all of sudden some 50s PSA guy comes along and lectures me that if I want this kind of thing not to happen at MY convention, I need to teach little kids more about the GOOD western animation, instead of the BAD eastern one. Then there is this rather unflattering portrayal of a shonen ai/shojou ai fangirl…

 Which makes me laugh cause honestly, even some of the worst shonen ai and shojou ai can do better in portraying a “realistic” gay relationship than Patty if you ask me.

Also, as much as I think fangirls can be extremely thirsty (I have read my fair share of extremely stupid yaoi and yuri fanfics) I think that in hindsight Dobson is really not anyone to complain about shipping obsession and sex when he himself has KorraSami, the Ladybug fandom and a certain rat pirate under his floppy belt.

As you can imagine, Dobson would get heat for those comics, considering how he himself has been greatly inspired by anime and manga for his major comics. And while I don’t have any explicit deviantart posts of him reacting to criticism in that regard, I do have this comic which addresses it directly.

 And yeah, if I were schoolgirl number 4, I would just sigh and walk away after telling Dobson that his mistakes and shortcomings are not related to having consumed anime, but rather by what sort of anime (and other stories) he had consumed and the amount of effort he had put in creating his stories instead of emulating just something more popular. Plus, if you really want people to draw more from life, how about drawing more from life yourself down the line? And no, tracing Star Wars movie frames does not count.

Finally, Dobson, considering how very little most people think of your work, I say mission accomplished: People have learnt from your mistakes and know not to be a Dobson.

And at last, there is this comic, which kinda wraps up Dobson’s “vendetta” with anime and manga fans within the pages of SYAC.

By trying to mock anime fans and make them look just as shallow as he is. I at least suppose. Honestly, the message of this comic is rather muddled. On one hand, I would say the strawman accusing Dobson hates anime just because it is popular is very simplified. After all, Dobson has made his reasons for not liking anime clear in a few more details. It’s just that the details in and on themselves in real life are still rather shallow and boil down to a lot of personal bias rather than an objective criticism of actual flaws. Which I think is worth pointing out.

But frankly, what is Dobson trying to say or point out here? That the strawman is not so different or even dumber than him, because he hates Justin Bieber for “shallow” and superficial reasons too?

Okay, this doesn’t quite work as well as Dobson wants. First, the argument Dobson’s strawman makes is in huge parts based on some verified statements Dobson made for not liking anime. Second, he just says a name and that triggers the guy to express his hatred for Bieber. We don’t know why the guy hates Bieber and you could make in fact the case, that he hates him not because he is popular, but because he has a genuine issue with the artist, his work or his behavior as a human being. Third, if you want to make yourself look like the better person Dobson, try to argue with the guy and make solid arguments why you don’t like anime. Instead you just deflect the criticism by changing the subject and then try to make yourself look like the “smarter” person in the room by mocking your critic in the most condescending manner.

Which as I think about it, sounds like your modus operandi on twitter and tumblr.

Weirdly enough, that more or less marks the “end” of Dobson tackling anime fans and the beef he has with them within the pages of SYAC. Despite how much Dobson’s negative reputation especially in early years was build around him hating on anime and belittling its fans, he didn’t really do more afterwards in the Dobson focused pages of SYAC. And mind you, those strips were also separated by other strips in-between, focused on Dobson just being at conventions.

Unfortunately for him, the strips didn’t really help in any way to diminish that negative reputation and instead just confirmed for many, that Dobson can’t handle criticism about his flawed opinion on anime. If anything, it just made people think even less of Dobson, as the strips just painted him as someone who would rather portray his critics as strawman he can be “rightfully” annoyed at, instead of fellow humans with slightly different tastes in entertainment, who are still worth listening to.

So, now that we have the anime fan related “annoyances” out of the way, what other sort of silly problems in making webcomics would Dobson cover in his strips and are “relatable” to everyone?

Lets see some of these examples in the next part.

#anime / manga #manga #Andrew Dobson #fuck you Tom Preston #Tom Preston #syac #so...you are a cartoonist #so you are a cartoonist #review #webcomic #comic #adobsonsartwork #adobsoncomic #adobsonartworks

[ordinaryschmuck]

Why I (Want to) Love Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Salutations, random people on the internet who most certainly won’t read this! I’m an Ordinary Schmuck. I write stories and reviews and draw comics and cartoons. I also LOVE the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Whether as a kid, or an adult pretending to be a kid, this franchise is one that I’ll always revisit no matter how old I get. So when I heard that a new version of the series was coming out in 2018, titled as Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I was excited about it. Then I watched the series...and most of that excitement went down the sewer drain. 

Don’t get me wrong, there were some elements that seemed like there was some definite promise for a good series, but other aspects...I’ll have to explain. 

But keep in mind, I am going to be spoiling a lot about the series. So if you haven't watched it yet, I highly recommend you do so to form your own opinions. Because while it may not have grabbed me as much, that doesn’t mean the same can’t be said for you. With that out of the way, let's get started with--

WHAT I LIKE

The Animation: If anybody ever tells you that Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles has awful animation, they are objectively wrong. Rise of the TMNT has some of the best, if not the best, animated fight scenes I've seen from any action series in recent memory. Probably because the show understands the number one rule of action animation: Good animation is a requirement. Not an exception.

For an action-oriented animated series, the audience needs to feel the impact whenever characters punch, block, or dodge in each fight. Yes, even dodge. Because if you can feel even the tiniest gust of wind that passes by a character's face after a punch, then you know the animators are doing something right. And trust me when I say that is present in the majority of most fights in Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Are there moments when the movements are slow and rigid? Yes...during the dialogue and comedic scenes. Moments where good and quality animation isn't really all that necessary. You see this same technique in most modern anime: The animation is rigid and cheap for the dialogue-heavy scenes so the animators can give extra attention to the epic action set pieces. Not a single person complains about this happening in their favorite anime of the week. But when Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles does this, apparently it's a bad thing? Explain that logic to me!

The animation is phenomenal in this show. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise because those people are either blind or insanely stupid. Either works.

It’s Pretty Funny: And that's about it. It's nowhere near one of the funniest shows I have seen, and previous iterations of the franchise did a much better job at balancing humor and heart, but Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles did a great job at getting a laugh out of me from time to time. It has a very random sense of humor that works well with its manic energy, similar to what Star vs. the Forces of Evil did early on in its first season. Even if one joke fails, about ten more take its place, most of them funnier than the others. There may be an occasional issue where a joke spoils a dramatic moment, but Rise of the TMNT is one of the few shows where that issue doesn't happen often. Besides, the series sets itself up as more of a comedy than other reboots and reiterations, so it wouldn't look good if it wasn't funny. Thankfully, it is, and in a way, the show is a success because of it.

It Tries to be Something New: This is what I respect most about the series. The downside about a reboot is that writers have to find a way to tell the same story but with adjustments that make it seem different. That's the same way Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles operates as a franchise. The original concepts of the stories and characters are always iconic, and I'll love them with my whole heart, but I will admit, there's a point where the same thing over and over again can be a little tiring. Then there's Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which makes changes where other shows would ask "why," this is the one that asks "why not?"

Why not change the personality and backstories of characters that still fit with the spirit of the original?

Why not change the genders, races, and possibly sexualities of these iconic characters?

Why not make something new?

Now, some have argued that the show is a little too new. Which I can kind of see the point of. After all, what's the point of changing characters and concepts so drastically when you could just make an original series? But even then, most of the changes are pretty clever, that I think it’s worth remembering for future iterations. Like making Casey Jones a female. Casey is a gender-neutral name, and I legitimately thought this series would do it for that reason alone. So I feel bad that the writers never got a chance to allow the series to reach its full potential with ideas like this due to Nickelodeon screwing them over (Seriously, never pitch a show to Nickelodeon. It rarely ever works out, and it's not worth the risk). I can see how these ideas could result in an incredible show that might cement the series as one of the best iterations of the franchise. But I can't base a story on potential. I can only judge what I see, and what I see are brilliant changes that impress me from time to time.

The Creators Are Still Fans: Despite making something completely different, you can tell that everyone working on this show loves TMNT as the rest of the fans do. There are dozens of references to previous versions littered throughout the series. Whether it's shoutouts to the 90s cartoon to bringing back voice actors from the last one, there are moments where the crew behind the series emphasizes how much they care about the franchise. There are also times when a reference has such a deep cut to it. For example, the series has the previous VA for Splinter to voice the current version of Shredder. I shouldn't have to explain how that is a brilliant idea, especially given Shredder's relationship with Karai...which I can't fully explain due to it spoiling TMNT (2012). This might be a whole new experience, but it is clear that history is not ignored when it comes to Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

The Cast is Colorful: It's not precisely a diversity win to have half the Turtles voiced by black VAs, but it is unquestionably some good sign of progress. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are...accurately what they are called. So they are not defined by the skin tone of the VAs themselves. So having half of them be voiced by people of color makes me hopeful that maybe future reboots would consider more colorful castings. Hell, maybe one day we'll have a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles reboot where all of them are POCs, to the point that we'll have an all-Asian casting for these timeless heroes (which makes way too much sense to me).

And it's not just the casting of the turtles that impresses me. Because the series making April O'neil black is an idea that I'm more than ok with. It's implied that she's black in the original comics by Keven Eastman and Peter Laird, so it works as another deep-cut reference that proves how big of fans the crew is. Plus, who cares? I mean, if we're still having issues of changing the race of a character who was originally white, all I can say is grow the hell up. You can complain if they don't grab you, but if the issue is because of one decision that shouldn't negatively affect anybody, I don't see the problem. Besides, at this point, a character being white is basically the base plate for someone in the future to change their race at another time.

Also, let’s give the people behind the casting a pat on the back for casting Asian VAs for characters who are, well, Asian. It’s the bare minimum of common courtesy and avoids the trouble of having white VAs do asian accents that have become quite culturally insensitive nowadays. So it’s a pretty cool decision if you ask me.

Diversity is never an issue, especially since representation always matters for people who demand to be heard. It's definitive proof that anybody can be anything, whether it's a hero in fiction or the voice of that hero behind the scenes. And you can't really do that when everyone is so white that it's blinding.

Donatello: This is the best character in the series. Not only because Donatello has the most consistent personality (more on that later), but also because I'm a sucker for the cynical super-geniuses. These types of characters always have a quick and dry wit that never fails to get a laugh out of me, and this version of Donatello became my favorite just for that factor alone. Most of the credit goes to Josh Brener, who does a phenomenal job at his performance and comedic delivery. As for the emotional bits, he's...fine, but the drama isn't the show's best strength anyway, so it doesn't matter as much. Because the fact that it's Donatello who earns the spot as best character in a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles reboot is an impressive feat in itself that any criticism offered for him is moot in the process.

WHAT I DISLIKE

Leonardo: I'm willing to make half of this a personal issue because I have grown to despise Ben Schwarts in the last four years. No offense to the guy, I'm sure he's a really great person in real life...but he has done nothing but play the same character in FOURS YEARS! Whether he's Leonardo, Dewey Duck, Sonic the Hedgehog, or even M.O.D.O.K.'s son (yes, that's a thing), Ben Schwarts has practically played the exact same character each time. The highly energized, dimwitted, and egotistical character who slowly tries to learn to be a better person in the end. AND SOMETIMES, NOT EVEN THAT! I'm sick of it, as it always breaks the immersion of the series as all I hear is Ben Schwarts and not the character he's voicing. But it's not just the voice behind Leonardo that frustrates me. Because the thing is, I can see how this version of him can be incredible.

It doesn't take a genius to know that this version of Leonardo is meant to be more childlike and carefree so he can morph into the more mature leader we all know and respect him as. The issue is that the writers barely do anything with that idea. Sure some episodes make this Leonardo more like, well, Leonardo, but they're far and few between the ones where he's the same Ben Schwarts character that I've grown to hate. Even when he is at his most Leo-like, as seen in the episode "Man vs. Sewer," it's so drastically different from how he usually acts that it feels less like character development and more like inconsistency. It's a shame too because I really love this idea. With a little more polish, it could work out. As is, it's just a huge chunk of wasted potential.

Raph’s Too Good of a Leader: This is a similar issue to what I've mentioned about Leonardo. Because, again, I love this idea. Raphael, in multiple iterations, complained about how he should be the leader and just as frequently learns why the job rightly belongs to Leo instead. So starting with this role reversal should be a well-executed idea that gives Raph what he wants while eventually giving the fans what they want. And it would be if not for the fact that Raph seems to be too good at his job.

I get it. If Raphael was too incompetent, the turtles would have gotten nothing done, and it would get too tiring too quick as Leonardo constantly proves why he should lead and why Raph should follow. This actually happens from time to time, and it is already tiresom. The issue is that the intention was to make Leonardo the leader in the end. So why spend so much time showing how Raphael is capable at the job and barely any time showing why Leonardo is a better fit? There are even times when Raphael seems like he really is a better leader than Leo, which I feel as though it is contradictory to the point the writers are trying to get across. In the end, it's nothing more than another really great idea met with insanely poor execution.

Master Splinter (Early Season One): ...Did anybody like this version of Master Splinter in the first half of season one? Because this character was atrocious, especially compared to the previous Splinter from TMNT (2012). We went from what is easily the best interpretation of the character to what was, at the time, the worst. He was lazy, selfish, and emotionally distant with his sons to the point where he only acknowledges them by the color of their bandannas. I understand that the writers needed a more comedic version of the character due to leaning extra hard into comedy, but I don't think I laughed once with his antics in the first half of season one. Thankfully, he's been gifted with a softcore reboot during the second half and onward. This Splinter is awesome, serious, he works well as a straight man, and he has a backstory that's easy to follow while still being kind of heartbreaking. It's a tremendous improvement from what we've been given, but it still doesn't change how downright painful he initially was. I won't complain about the results, but I do have the right to complain about what we got beforehand.

Characters are Inconsistent: A common complaint you'll hear about Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is that the main characters are the same. That's not true because there are definite differences that separate each one apart from the other...the issue is that the writers are not consistent with those changes. I've touched upon it with Leo, but the truth is, everyone in the main cast suffers from inconsistency with their personalities. If Raph is supposed to be the meathead with a good heart, why are there times when he acts like the smart one who occasionally enjoys violence? If April is supposed to be as wild and carefree as the rest of the guys, why are there episodes where she seems to be the sane one? If Mikey is supposed to be kind yet somewhat stupid, why are there episodes where he's selfish and more intelligent than Leonardo? Even Donatello, who is the most consistent out of the whole cast, still suffers through moments when he isn't as clever and cynical as he usually is. These inconsistencies are annoying, and at times, it feels like their personalities are dependent on what the writers need for a joke or for the episode. Characters are the most essential aspect of any story for any medium. If audiences don't care about the characters, they'll find it hard to care about anything else. And how can we care about anyone if we're not one hundred percent sure what their personalities are in the first place?

The Pacing: I sort of expected this when it was announced that this reboot was swapping the franchise's usual half-hour runtime for a ten-minute one, but in all honesty, it isn't that bad. It is slightly fast at times, but that's just as quick to get used to. However, there is one strange phenomenon about this show that I can't let go of.

You see, this series somehow has worse pacing with extended episodes and specials than it does with its usual ten minutes. I don't know how this is possible either. Because despite having as much time as the writers want to establish each plot point, it still feels like they fly through them a little too fast than they regularly would. It makes no sense, but it's constant in every extended episode, especially the series finale (which, to be fair, is partially Nickelodeon's fault. AGAIN!). So keep that in mind when watching.

The Characters Are TOO Overpowered: It feels weird complaining about this. Because making the characters capable of doing anything and surviving much more leads to some of the most epic action sequences in animation history, not just the series or the TMNT franchise as a whole. Despite that, though, there is one crucial thing that is always missing from those fight scenes anyways: Tension.

To fully explain why tension is required in action, I'll have to use Samurai Jack as an example. You see, the titular character can, at times, be just as invincible as these versions of the Turtles and survive even worse. But regardless of him being victorious after nearly every episode, no matter how high the deck is stacked against him, there was always a sense that he fought hard, literally and figuratively, for those victories in the first place. Jack losing articles of clothing or getting cut up gives the illusion that he might not win in the end. He still does, and he always does, but showing the audience that he can and will get hurt makes seeing that victory feel earned. The only times the Turtles, April, or Splinter get hurt is either for comedic slapstick or because the story says so. This is why I consider Shredder destroying the lair is the best fight scene in the entire series. The second he starts destroying their weapons, it gives the tension required to believe maybe, just maybe, not everyone will make it out alive this time. Because if the characters aren't careful, they will face intense consequences as a result. Thus making an adrenaline-pounding moment in the process. Unfortunately, this is the one and only fight scene where that happens. Every action set piece is still epic, don't get me wrong. But there's a reason why writers make even Superman seem less invincible than typical in a fight.

Baron Draxum: THIS is the biggest issue that I have with the series.

As a villain, I didn't give a s**t about Baron Draxum. He was a dull antagonist with a generic evil plot, but other than that, he was perfectly serviceable for a series like this. Even getting a few chuckles now and again...but then the writers decided to make him REDEEMABLE!?

This guy?

The maniac who wanted to commit genocide on human beings, all because of insufficient proof that they'll do it to his species first?

Didn't we already learn how that's awful reasoning after Steven Universe?

Actually, that's not fair...because Steven Universe has a better explanation behind wanting to redeem the Diamonds than Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles does about Baron Draxum! And I'm not kidding! For Steven Universe, the characters believe that it's better to end things peacefully than killing anyone, even if they're the worst criminals. It's a flawed mentality, sure, but it's one you can grasp and understand. What's the reason for redeeming Baron Draxum? It's because he's the reason why Splinter and the turtles are a family...F**k all the physical torture Splinter went through on top of the social ostracization he experienced because of it. No, no, it totally validates the decision to forgive and forget...Oh, wait, no, it doesn't. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE INSANE!

Who in the f**k honest to goodness thought that would be a good idea? I'm all for finding silver linings in a bad situation, but that is just flat-out lunacy! Because it's the equivalent of saying, "Yeah, this person was a complete a-hole, but they're still the a-hole that made you who you are today." But that is a very dangerous lesson to preach to kids. Because here's the--Hey *snaps fingers* Here's the thing: If a person treats you like garbage, you don't owe them anything for who you are. It's one thing if a person inspired you or cheered you on, but if someone basically ruined your life and physically harmed you and others, don't forgive them. They don't deserve it. ‘Cause f**k Baron Draxum. And whoever thought this was a good idea, you seriously need some help.

Man, is this how it feels to be Lily Orchard? IT SUCKS!

IN CONCLUSION

And that's what I think about Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. 

It's a fantastic series! I just like everything except for the execution of ideas, most of the characters, and the overall pacing of it...that means it's not a good series, is it?

Yeah, it's a real shame that I don't like this. Because I want to. I really want to. The pieces are there, and I can see how this could be a great and memorable version of a series I loved since I was a tater-tot myself. But I don't. I'm sorry, but I just don't consider this to be an A+ series. It's a solid C, for sure, because it's mostly just style with very little substance. I still respect the amount of effort everyone put into this reboot, but for me, it just never had its chance to fully rise to the occasion.

#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles #rise of the tmnt #what i thought about #why i want to like

[diaryofanangryasianguy]

I try to talk about racism asians have been facing but every time i talk these assholes in my group just spam stories about attacks by blacks and idk assault is assault but people really trying to make this a black vs asian thing. Then i try to act like them and show stats that attacks by white are way higher than attacks by blacks and some one said why am i defending blacks?

Man I don’t even know what the point of your ask even is because it just sounds so baited.

But I’m really damn pissed about how Asian people barely get any kind of mainstream coverage as it is and when our elders (and some young folks) are getting attacked they still say nothing. People and the media were so quick to say “Happy Lunar New Year” like 2 weeks ago and try to commercialize shit to profit off of it but barely mentioned that the same people celebrating it were getting attacked and robbed. And there’s still new cases of these attacks coming out everyday.

Then when we get to some talking about it, everybody wants to go to the white supremacy thing or the anti-blackness thing. Neither of these topics are enough to address racism against Asian people because neither topic centers Asian people. Move the conversation back to Asian people when Asian people are the victims. Like is that so fucking hard to do? Do we care more about Asian victims or do we care more about non-Asian perpetrators? Because I don’t give a fuck about the perpetrators whether they be white or Black. I’m grabbing the nearest weapon and smacking both of them upside the head if I caught either one attacking somebody.

I’m fucking ashamed of everybody blaming Asian victims for their attacks. I’m especially ashamed in all these liberal Asians acting like little bitches and ain’t got the guts to directly put metal to the hand to solve this shit. My mom is armed with the highest legal voltage taser possible and my dad is legally armed with a gun 24/7. That’s how you solve the problem in my family. Quit acting like little bitches and move the goalpost back to Asian victims so they can score justice for once, instead of going all off-topic and shit

Angry Asian Guy

#anon #ask #long reads #tw sensitive material

[davidmann95]

Got a handful of DC-solicit asks, so I’ll just write up my thoughts on the whole batch again.

Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom #1: The BALLS to not only do the next Mister Miracle thing after King and Gerads, but to do it with Shilo Norman and therefore invite Seven Soldiers comparisons as well. I wouldn’t be that interested, but the preview art that came with the announcement looked fun so this is a maybe for me.

Wonder Girl #1: I got a Yara Flor ask so I’ll go more into detail with that, but this sounds...not good.

Future State: Gotham #1: Hahaha, thanks, call me in six months if the next team does something there’s a reason to give a shit about. Except...wait, Dennis Culver cowrote that E Is For Extinction Secret Wars mini, dammit this might be good. Either way though, god willing we get a Future State: Metropolis book by Dan Watters too.

Legends of the Dark Knight #1: Hopefully this going with Sensational Wonder Woman means there’s a similar Superman anthology in the cards too, but I won’t hold my breath. Darick Robertson doing Batman is enticing, but I’m not familiar with his work as a writer and the premise doesn’t sound that gripping so I’ll wait and see. That Francavilla variant though? DC, blow that up to poster size and you’d make a mint.

Milestone Returns: Infinite Edition #0: Hmm. I got love for Static, but I might wait for further announcements and/or buzz before taking the plunge on this one.

DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration #1: This is a SERIOUSLY stacked lineup, definite buy.

Stargirl Spring Break Special #1: Impeccable timing, DC. It feels like it must be some kind of statement that there are no Morrison members of the Seven Soldiers in the mix (even swapping out Ystin for the original version of Shining Knight no one cares bout) - we focus on the Moore fixation, but there’s enough tidbits that I really do feel like Johns probably flat-out hates Morrison. And what’s this ‘secret eighth soldier’ nonsense? There’ve always been eight soldiers, people have been joking about it forever!

Justice League: Last Ride #1: Discussed that announcement here.

Batman: Earth One Vol. 3: *blinks*

*blinks again*

*squints at the cover art*

...Geoff Johns are you seriously trying to step to Morrison and use the Miagani tribe? YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN PEOPLE

I Am Not Starfire: Interesting concept that seems like it pushes into indie-flavored territory as much as DC’s superhero output just about ever has, if word-of-mouth is good there’s a decent chance I’ll get this.

Action Comics #1031: Wonder if this is serious about the potential of Kryptonian refugees, given PKJ suggested the idea in Worlds of War and that could play a significant part in the New Krypton stuff from Bendis’s Legion (with Johnson being clear he’s following up on a lot of Bendis’s ideas with his own Superman run).

Superman #31: This sounds big-time like Johnson hammering Superman into a swords-and-sorcery shape for an arc since that’s his bag, but Superman’s malleable enough for that to work so I’m not complaining.

American Vampire 1976 #8: Still not getting, so.

Batman #108: Tynion’s well and truly figured out how to game the direct market’s dopiest instincts, hasn’t he? Well, as long as that’s in service of him getting to continue doing weird Batman stuff with Jorge Jimenez like introducing whatever the ‘Unsanity Collective’ is, that’s fine with me. And more Ghostmaker!

Batman: Black & White #6: Not as packed for the finale as some previous issues, but still looking good. And there’s really never gonna be a ‘last’ Scott Snyder Batman story, is there? Sure it’ll be good but that’s kind of a shame, his Detective #1027 feature really felt like a nice full circle.

Batman: The Detective #2: Guess I wasn’t the only one wondering if it was a stealth DKR prequel and they wanted to cut that notion out at the knees.

Batman/Catwoman #6: Still very down for it, but BOY that Batwoman costume Mann debuted on Twitter.

The Batman & Scooby Doo Mysteries #2: I recently finally started reading Sholly Fisch and companies’ Scooby-Doo Team-Up! recently after getting the whole run for free on ComiXology earlier this year and have fallen in love with it, so I’m totally grabbing this digitally.

Batman/Superman #18: “The Dark Knight and the Man of Steel are on a mission to stop the godlike Auteur.io from destroying the pocket worlds he’s created...but where on Earth did Auteur.io even come from? The answer starts not on Earth at all, but with an ancient cult of World Forger worshippers on a planet far away—and if our heroes are to have a prayer of stopping this mythic behemoth, they’ll need to get to the bottom of his power source, and quick! It’s a race against time as the parallel lives of entire worlds hang in the balance!”

Anonymous said: Haha is Yang really doing Superman & Batman vs. Zack Snyder and the Snyder Cult (look up “auter” if you don’t know what I mean)? That’s fucking hilarious, especially since he apparently comes from the World Forge which is where all the shitty Earths full of bad ideas are made. Pretty pointed criticism there if I’m reading it right.

I’ve seen two or three people other than this anon independently conclude this arc is about the Supermen and Batmen of the Multiverse teaming up to stop Zack Snyder from destroying them all and at this point I’m ready to ask my LCS owner if I’m allowed to pay more than cover price for this run.

Batman: Urban Legends #3: Much more into this after the Grifter and Outsiders stories in Future State.

Catwoman #31: No reason not to assume this’ll continue to be great.

Challenge of the Super Sons #2: Good for the folks who want this, and that Nick Bradshaw variant is fun.

Crime Syndicate #3: I wanna be convinced to get this book, but the interviews are not persuading me.

Detective Comics #1036: How long is Mora sticking around?!

The Dreaming: Waking Hours #10: Another one I’ve got nothing to say about because I’ve never been getting it.

The Flash #770: Actually really excited to hear about how bad this run will suck now that I know it’s by the mind behind that “Geoff Johns’ OC - do not steal - beats up the Grant Morrison DC future” catastrophe from Future State.

Green Lantern #2: Really couldn’t wait a month for Far Sector to wrap up, huh?

Harley Quinn #3: Still not interested, but that *is* a nice cover.

The Joker #3: There’s a very real possibility I’ll have dropped the book by this point if it turns out to be the illustrated editorial mandate I get the feeling it could be, but fingers crossed.

Justice League #61: Not complaining, but wow, this really is Naomi 2 since Campbell’s busy in order to provide the necessary material for the CW show.

Looney Toons #260/Mad #20: Were these grouped with the rest of the solicits before?

Man-Bat #4: Very curious how this’ll be received, given nobody much cares about Man-Bat but Wielgosz seems to be quickly becoming a favorite.

The Next Batman: Second Son #2: Hadn’t realized this was only 4 issues - guess for at least one of them it’ll be the Luke Fox book everyone expected in the first place.

Nightwing #80: Dick Grayson vs. Heartless, not how I expected the DC/Kingdom Hearts crossover to happen but I’ll take it. That variant though? ALL TIMER:

The Other History of the DC Universe #4: I was trying to figure out who the focus of #4 would be since we know #5 is about Thunder and Lightning, forgot Montoya was confirmed.

Robin #2: Wanna care, so don’t care.

Rorschach #8: I will get it and probably like it.

RWBY/Justice League #2: My thoughts here will be their own post because there’s something particularly notable, but:

Anonymous said: Have you seen the BATtleaxe from the new art for RWBY/Justice League?

Yes, anon. Yes I have.

Sensational Wonder Woman #3: Eh, premise doesn’t grab me but maybe.

Strange Adventures #10: God I love the book about how Adam Strange sucks.

Suicide Squad #3/Teen Titans Academy #3: Hahahahaha

Superman: Red and Blue #3: Fiffe and Stokoe doing Superman stories!!! And...Nick Spencer. With Christian Ward art?! Sigh, fine, hopefully it’ll be Nick Spencer doing a nice little comedy, and not having Grant Morrison Superman throwing his t-shirt away because he grew up and realized changing things is too hard. A horrible shame Pope is doing the main cover though, the allegations against him I guess never really got any attention. At least there’s this JPL variant:

The Swamp Thing #3: Swampy will never be my guy but very happy for those who dig him, because I imagine this’ll be terrific.

Truth & Justice #4: Normally I wouldn’t care at all, but what I’m hearing on Twitter about this is a crying shame - that Jeff Trammell is really talented and Red Hood is a favorite of his and this is likely to be one of Jason Todd’s few Actually Good comics, but that artist Rob Guillory is a bullying transphobic piece of shit. Sucks all around.

Wonder Woman #772: I was so excited for this run, and then Immortal Wonder Woman had to go and suck.

#DC Comics #Opinion

[olderthannetfic]

As I said, @hilichurlrights​, you can really tell how ignorant such people are of the composition of fanfic fandom, never mind the rest of the world.

I agree it makes sense...

I just think it makes people fucking morons and they should learn better.

This response is an example of the very thing the original ask was bitching about and with good reason!

AO3 and tumblr are full of m/m shipping. They are equally full of useful idiots doing the work of TERFs and homophobes by accident. That’s where this nonesense about “fetishizing” leads: to trying to force people to avoid m/m content.

(Funny story: I know a 20-something who proudly told me she only has het ships because she knows it would be fetishizing for her to have any m/m ships. Good job, wankers, you sure made fandom more progressive by getting rid of the queer shit.)

It’s very telling that the constant refrain is that WOC are sidelined for two white men, as though WOC aren’t “sidelined” in favor of white het in spaces with more het shipping. I’m not even convinced that sidelining is a good way to look at people spending hobby time on X vs. Y anyway, but it’s definitely not a good way to look at this specific pattern because shippy fic is romance. Women are “sidelined” in m/m because it’s m/m. All of the non-leads, regardless of gender or orientation, are always “sidelined” in romance novels. That’s what the genre is.

This is the kind of insidious rhetoric that the bigots sneak into our spaces to be absorbed and repeated by unwitting progressives.

Do you not get that spreading this nonsense is demanding that people like heterosexual fiction and and demanding that they prioritize hetereosexual fiction as more progressive? Or are you pitting f/f with WOC against white m/m? The examples I can think of where this comes up tend to be about shipping some very popular white guy lead with either the WOC or the white dude from his canon.

Plenty of people don’t read fic about women because they don’t identify with women or because they have trauma or because the media industries and genres they’re into don’t depict women in ways that inspire them. There are so many valid reasons including the very obvious one of other people’s hobby time is not yours to command.

The word ‘fetishizing’ itself is tremendously ambiguous in this context too. This isn’t some universal evil we all agree is real or all agree on a definition for.

Fic is not primarily operating in the realistic family drama space where “good representation” seems to hang out. It’s more likely to be romance novels or crime procedurals in terms of its genre elements. Some of it is erotica. Much of what I see called out as “fetishizing” is actually just rape fantasy--a normal and healthy thing everyone has known was fine since the 70s unless you are, once again, a conservative religious asshat or a radfem. Or, worse yet, plenty of it is just “Women aren’t allowed to write about men” with a whole pile of misgendering, mislabeling of orientation, and demands for people’s RL info.

Writing a female Asian character as some ninja prostitute stereotype is fetishizing.

Being horny for m/m is not. Not even if you’re a cis woman. Not even if you like kink.

Being horny is not a bad thing.

Every time you uncritically call people’s amateur m/m art “sus”, you’re helping out the bigots.

[stovetuna]

Imagine Steve/Avengers walking in to Tony entertaining two soldiers in the common room and being really confused because Tony??? Despises the military??? But then find out that those two soldiers are actually from the “fun-vee” way back in IM 1 and Tony’s fitting them with prosthetics.

ahhh this has been stuck in my head for DAYS anon! I don’t necessarily agree with the assessment that Tony hates the military, per se (doing business with the military and the military industrial complex, however, and all that that toxic shit entails, definitely yes), BUT it’s such a heartbreaking/warming concept I had to run with it! I think I got it right with Air Force vs Army, but the movie was kinda vague—I’m going off of the fact that the driver said “I’m an airman,” which you would not say if you were in the Army.

and since the airmen (and woman) Tony was traveling with in the Fun-Vee are canonically deceased, I thought I’d have Tony do something…well, Extremely Tony™ to compensate…

(::whispers:: also we’re just gonna pretend that the Bucky-killed-Tony’s-parents-revelations of Cap 2/3 aren’t a thing in this vaguely alternate MCU universe. la-di-da, la-di-da…)

***

It’s not surprising to walk into the Avengers common area and see Tony Stark working on something no one can quite comprehend. That’s par for the course, really, as commonplace as days that end in Y. Machines, phones, tablets, watches, the toaster after Hulk pressed the cancel button a little too hard—they’ve seen Tony futzing with just about everything that exists in the Tower (and some things that don’t—couldn’t—exist anywhere else except where Tony is). 

What the team isn’t expecting when the elevator doors open onto the communal floor that sunny Tuesday afternoon is a living room scattered with men and women in various states of modest undress, all of whom immediately pivot in place to take stock of the new arrivals. Three men, one woman, and in the middle of their protective circle is Tony, eyes blazing with the same thrill of invention he often gets in the lab, a pair of needle-nose pliers clenched in his teeth.

Steve in particular notices the way Tony looks, because he’s developed a bad habit of doing that over the past year and change, and he’s kind of helpless at this point. Tony’s backlit by the afternoon sun, preoccupied with whatever he’s doing with the strange woman’s arm to distraction, and Steve can’t be judged too harshly—anyone with eyes would drag theirs over the exposed muscles of Tony’s arms, the shift and flex of his shoulders, the firm taper of his waist, the pronounced curve of his a—

“Are we, uh, interrupting something?” Clint has to shout to be heard above the music blasting from all corners of the room. 

Tony looks up from his work and waves his free hand, the one that isn’t wrist-deep in what looks remarkably like a prosthetic arm. He makes a ‘cut it off’ motion to his neck before taking the pliers out of his mouth while FRIDAY lowers the rock music to a dull background hum. 

“Hey! Sorry, I tried to keep it to the lab, but these guys wanted to see where the Avengers hang out, and I couldn’t say no.” 

Steve tears his eyes away from Tony (who should really work the sweaty-and-disheveled-mechanic look more often) to take in the others in the room with him. It’s a panorama of people, and the first thing Steve notices, besides their more obvious differences, is how comfortable they all are with each other, to the point that walking in on this moment feels invasive, almost rude. 

The four are all of remarkably different builds and backgrounds, not a similarity between them: an African American man, no taller than Steve was before the serum, sits on the couch; a white man, thin as a rake and twice as tall, is reaching for a glass of water on the coffee table; an Asian American man, whose shoulders are somehow even broader than Steve’s, stands rigidly next to Tony, arms folded across his chest; and the lone woman, whose glossy black hair is wound tightly in a bun at the back of her head. Steve notes the beautifully elaborate Native American tattoo covering the expanse of her shoulders and upper back. 

Then Steve notices the high-and-tights, the form-fitting, drab beige shirts they’re all wearing, the combat boots lined up behind the loveseat, and he realizes, much like he did with Sam that morning in DC, oh—these are my people.

“Ah, well, welcome to the octagon!” Clint says with an easy smile, stepping forward to shake hands and say hello like a normal human being. Natasha gives Steve one of her looks before she and Sam follow him into the living room—I don’t know any more than you do.

Bruce, Wanda, and Vision stay behind with Steve to let the first wave through. Steve watches his teammates greet the airmen without fanfare, welcoming strangers into their private midst like it’s routine. 

“Didn’t know y’all would be around, else we would’ve stayed outta sight.” 

Sam laughs, clapping the sitting man on the shoulder. “Dude, if Tony told us you were here, I would have come downstairs and bugged you, myself.” 

“Sure, PJ—you just wanted to see what real Air Force muscle looks like,” the man grins, flexing his barrel chest hard enough to strain his shirt. Sam guffaws and gives him a friendly punch to the shoulder, which the man returns in kind with a fist to the kidney. 

Clint is already deep in conversation with the redheaded beanpole, who talks so fast it’s dizzying; Natasha is standing next to the third man, keeping her eyes forward, and together they watch Tony disappear back into his work, muttering things back and forth to each other, so quiet even Steve can’t hear. 

“I think all is clear,” Vision says smoothly, drifting forward with Wanda, who is visibly fascinated by the woman’s tattoo until she steps into the throng and sees something that makes her face fall. 

Steve moves forward, curious and worried in equal measure. Bruce is hot on his heels. 

“—I mean it’s crazy right? It’s crazy, Tony Stark, Tony Stark calls us up out of the blue one day and says ‘You’ll be waiting six months to a year for a decent repair job, let alone a complete replacement, and I owe you guys, come on by Avengers Tower—”

Redhead is gabbing excitedly, gesticulating like Tony does when he’s in the mad depths of an invention binge. Steve sees the glint of metal and hears the whir of mechanisms working smoothly together in tandem and realizes both of the man’s hands are prosthetic. 

“Oh man! Oh, man! Captain, sir, wow, it’s—fuck, shit, my mama would kill me for swearing in front of you, fucking—shit, sorry, fuck—ah, damn it!”

Steve smiles and introduces himself—Corporal Bill Levee, apparently, is just as talkative up close. For all that his hand is made of metal, his grip feels remarkably, tangibly real. 

While Bill goes back to talking compound bows with Hawkeye, Steve looks at the man on the couch. Sam and Vision are now sitting on either side of him: both of his legs end at mid-thigh, and in their place are what look like brand-new metal limbs, designed to match his proportions exactly. The metal is dark, shiny, beautiful. He looks thrilled. He looks even more excited when Steve approaches, leaps to his feet and doesn’t even balk at the fact that Steve is a head and change taller than him and a superhero—he just steps right up to Steve and jabs him once in the shoulder with a grin. 

“Captain Rogers,” he says, and sticks out his hand. Steve shakes it. The man points a thumb at himself: “Captain Freddy Harrison. A little after your time, sir, but an honor to meet you regardless.”

Bill is still talking a mile a minute behind him; Freddy sits back down on the couch and lets Steve continue his “Captain America Meet-and-Greet” but makes him promise to come back and swap stories, which Steve does, happily, even as his mind whirls. How does Tony know these people? Why are they here? Where did these prosthetics come from? 

Bruce has joined Natasha, standing apart from the rest to talk to her and her new friend. Steve stops to say hello, as is only right, waiting until he’s entered the man’s line of sight to do so. Only then does he realize that the man has no line of sight, because both of his eyes are prosthetic. 

“I’m not completely blind, Captain,” he says, voice low but good-humored. Next to him, Natasha smothers a smile behind her hand. 

“Steve, this is Sergeant Daniel Kwon,” Bruce offers. The sergeant smirks and extends a hand—the eyes in his sockets look incredibly lifelike, but don’t move even a fraction of a millimeter. They gleam, still, with an uncanny sense of knowing. Steve has a sneaking suspicion they see more than enough and match his original eyes perfectly. 

“I’ll still make an exception in your case, Sergeant Kwon,” Steve replies, shaking his hand, “for not saluting a ranking officer.”

Dan chuckles under his breath.

“Let’s see your battlefield commission and then we’ll talk rank, sir,” he says. 

“Ugh, men.”

Steve turns around, and there’s Tony, flipping shut a panel high on the woman’s left arm with a smile. He pockets the pliers and drags the back of his forearm across his glistening forehead. Somewhere in the back of Steve’s mind, a saxophone is blaring. 

Honestly, the intrusive thoughts he could deal with, but the fact that Tony looks this good after hours of hard labor really isn’t fair. 

“Seriously, barely two minutes in and you military guys are at it like frat bros at a kegger.” Tony looks sidelong at the woman, who rolls her shoulders with a pop and a groan. “How do you manage?” 

“Easy,” she says, “I let them drink until they pass out and then I run back to the women’s barracks with all their clothes so they have to walk across the TOC butt-naked.”  

“I think we need to compare our respective strategies,” Natasha says, taking Wanda’s arm on her way to greet the other woman. “This is Wanda; I’m Natasha.”

The woman turns to face them. Her features are striking in a way that makes Steve think of old friends from the war, men he met on those rare occasions he had leave. He’d listen to Native American Code Talkers tell stories of land and legacy and home, stories older than anything Steve had ever known. He’d never been so humbled. 

“Delores,” she replies, shaking their hands. “But please, call me Del, or I’ll never hear the end of it.”

Steve looks at Tony, who giggles—giggles—and mouths ‘Umbridge.’ Del must have ears like a bat, because she smacks him smartly with her prosthetic arm and Tony yelps before devolving into outright laughter. Steve could watch and listen to Tony laugh—that big, gut-wrenching cackle Tony thinks is unattractive but Steve thinks makes Tony look like happiness personified—all day. 

The conversation devolves quickly from there, and within a couple of excitable minutes, the airmen are eager to get a look at the Avengers’ game room. They pile into the elevator, talking animatedly over each others’ heads, placing bets and picking teams as the doors close. 

In their wake, Steve’s ears are buzzing, and he realizes with a jolt that he’s now alone. With Tony. 

It happens often enough that the fact itself isn’t jarring, but something about being alone with disheveled-frazzled-happy-sweaty Tony sets Steve’s nerves on high alert. Tony is loose-limbed and relaxed, moving in and out of Steve’s space as he picks his way around the living room barefoot, looking for discarded tools. 

“There you are,” he coos at a tiny device that looks remarkably like a laser pointer. Knowing Tony, it’s probably a real laser. He pockets it, assumably to put away later (or fish out of the laundry at the last minute). 

“Who are those people, Tony?” 

“Friends of friends,” Tony replies. Steve also knows Tony well enough to recognize his I am being deliberately vague voice when he hears it. 

“Uh-huh.” Steve sits on the arm of the sofa, legs stretched out in front of him. “And who are they really?” 

“Who wants to know?”

“Me,” Steve says gently, scratching his palms with dulled fingernails. “They’re strangers, and they’re in our home. I think if you were in my shoes you’d want to know.” 

Tony stoops to pick up and pocket what looks like a dissected nine-volt battery. Steve kind of wants to ask, but he’s too distracted by Tony’s ass in those black Levis to ask any cogent questions. Seriously, he wonders, are those painted on?

Only when Tony sighs, and quite heavily, that Steve realizes this was more than just a friendly house call (of sorts) on Tony’s part. He watches Tony stand up, facing the floor-to-ceiling windows bright with the glow of sunset, and admires the way Tony suits the view so perfectly. He looks good all the time, but like this—skin burnished gold, brown eyes honeyed by the light—he’s something else. Someone Steve wants, desperately, but like most things in his life, knows he’s not allowed to have. Tony Stark is beyond him in so many ways. Reaching for him seems futile, so Steve stays on the ground, and looks. 

Tony fidgets nervously with a mini Phillips Head screwdriver, twiddling it in his long, clever fingers as he stares out the windows at the city sprawled out beneath them. 

“They’re from the same company as the guys in the convoy I was with when I—when they—” his voice sputters out before he can say the words. Steve doesn’t push. He doesn’t say anything. He just waits for Tony to gather himself. It’s one of the hardest lessons he’s had to learn about Tony Stark—sometimes it’s better to let him get a handle on himself, rather than jump in and try to handle Tony for him. It doesn’t change the fact that Steve wants nothing more than to hold his hand, now that it’s hanging at his side like its string was just cut. “A while back I dug into Air Force records, talked to Rhodey, got some names. Five people died in the hit that was meant for me. I figured, the least I could do was find five of their closest buddies who needed help.” 

Tony glances back at Steve—the little smile on his lips could break Steve’s heart if he let it.

“And I’ve heard you talk about how convoluted the VA is when it comes to services and benefits and whatnot. I figured, my tech probably took their limbs, I should cut out the middle man and give them new ones, myself.” 

Something in Steve’s heart shifts irrevocably before kicking into a whole new gear. By the end of the sentence, Steve knows he’s going to do something incredibly rash, the only question is when. 

Funny—ten minutes ago he was coming back from a team exercise, prepared to give Tony a friendly but firm talking-to about missing it, and instead here he is, breathless, heart racing, sitting and listening to Tony talk humbly about fixing people because he knows it’s the right thing to do. Because it’s the least he can do. And isn’t that the wildest understatement Steve’s ever heard? 

As if anything about Tony Stark could ever possibly be least. 

“You built them all those prosthetics?” 

“Top of the line!” Tony smirks, saluting Steve with his Phillips Head. “Nothing more high tech in any of them than a heart rate monitor and some other odds and ends—no rocket launcher eyes, don’t worry. I kept my baser urges in check with these.” 

“It’s good,” Steve blurts out, too loud and too fast. Tony inhales sharply, fingers clenching around the screwdriver hard enough his knuckles go white. Steve feels his face go hot and groans. “I mean, what you did—what you’re doing—is good, Tony. It’s really generous of you to do that for those guys.” 

Steve crosses his arms across his chest to make himself feel safer, more contained. If he doesn’t, who knows where these ridiculous feelings might go. He feels silly enough as it is, blushing and stammering while dressed in his uniform, sans helmet. Even Tony’s probably wondering why he’s wasting his time talking to a red-white-and-blue fossil when he could be downstairs destroying Clint and the others at pool or showing the airmen around the tower, giving them the bells-and-whistles tour. 

Tony looks at the floor, away from Steve. Steve feels it like a physical thing, Tony pulling away, retreating, wanting to hide. Amazing, how a man who almost literally wears his heart on his sleeve still thinks he doesn’t have one. 

“Yeah, well,” Tony mutters, “it’s good practice, anyways.” 

Steve’s thoughts grind to a halt. 

“Practice for what?” 

Tony starts moving around, shuffling back and forth across the living room floor, looking for something that probably isn’t there. Steve knows when Tony is avoiding eye contact with him—it happens often enough. 

“Just a pet project, nothing major. Hey, have you seen my cable knife anywhere?” 

“Did you leave it on the floor? Tony…”

“I know, I know, the only thing worse is Legos, but I was busy! You can’t blame me for—OW FUCK!” 

Like a shot, Steve is up and holding on to Tony so he doesn’t hop backwards into the glass coffee table. One arm wrapped around his back and the other hand on his bicep, Steve steadies Tony as Tony searches underfoot for whatever hurt him. 

He comes up with a magnet the size of a dime. 

“Ha,” Tony wheezes. “Speaking of Legos.” He drops it into his pocket along with the laser pointer and whatever else is in there and hangs his head. Rubbing his brow, Tony says: “God. I could sleep for a week after today.” 

Steve keeps holding Tony. He should let go, but opportunities like this so rarely present themselves. Plus, Tony feels so good under his hands, strong and warm and just small enough to envelope in a hug if Steve let himself, if Tony wanted him to, and Tony does look dead on his (adorable, bare) feet…

“What else have you been working on today? This pet project?” 

“Hah?” Tony breathes, still wincing slightly from stepping on the magnet. “Oh yeah. For Bucky, when you find him. Ow, motherfucker, that hurt…”

The thing about being in Tony Stark’s presence is, it’s so easy to lose the plot. Tony’s mind moves faster than Steve could ever hope to match, mentally or physically; he’s always one pace behind, catching up. It’s fine, though; he actually kind of likes it, being challenged the way Tony challenges him, delighting in the push-pull of their banter and debates, the way Tony teaches him about science and tech and the 21st century without being condescending. Steve gets to a point where he thinks he knows Tony, how he operates, how his brain works—then moments like this happen, and it’s like he’s sprinted smack into a brick wall. 

“What?” 

“What?” 

“Bucky, you said—are you designing a new arm? For Bucky?” 

Tony seems to notice their position at that exact moment. Steve feels him blaze with heat where his hands are touching Tony’s bare skin. 

“Uh. Maybe?” At Steve’s look, Tony bites his lip and sighs. “Fine. Yeah, I am. Can you blame me? The thought of Sputnik wandering around the tower with that Cold War-era paperweight hanging off him when I’ve got brand-spanking-new, finely-tuned StarkTech all but ready to go? Perish, Steve, perish the thought.”

Tony is smiling up at him from his place in Steve’s arms, relaxed now, almost leaning into him, and all Steve can think is, he belongs here. 

“What’s that face?” Tony asks, curious but still smiling. He pokes Steve in the middle of the forehead with a cheeky grin. “Keep frowning like that, your face’ll stick.”

When, apparently, is right now. 

When Steve reaches up and takes Tony’s hand, he gets to watch Tony’s thoughts run into the wall, for once. 

When he weaves their fingers together, he gets to watch Tony’s mouth click shut and his eyes go wide. Super-hearing means he can count the beats of Tony’s racing heart without having to feel them. Steve’s telegraphing every movement, every feeling, as much as he possibly can now that words seem to have escaped him. 

He must manage okay, because the look that passes over Tony’s face is the same one Steve’s seen in the mirror a thousand times since the day he realized he was halfway in love with Tony Stark: wonder, one part lost, one part found. 

When he leans down, slowly, Steve gets to watch Tony’s beautiful eyes flicker and shut. He counts the dark lashes where they rest on Tony’s high cheekbones, breathes in his smell and listens to the shudder in his exhale before drawing him in for a kiss that draws everything else to a quiet, blissful blank.

When Tony pushes his fingers up into Steve’s hair, scratching lightly at the nape of his neck, Steve drops his arms around Tony’s waist and pulls him in close with a soft groan. He’s warm and messy and still holding that damn screwdriver, but he kisses Steve soft and eager like it’s the only thing he wants to do for the rest of his life, folds himself into Steve’s embrace like he wants to build a home right there in his arms. 

One day Steve will tell him he already did, a long time ago, and it wasn’t the least of anything. 

*** 

more fics on AO3!

#rachel writes fic #I really should slow it down but this one would NOT leave me alone! #tony stark #steve rogers #stevetony #superhusbands #stony #stony fic #stovetuna #prompt fill #this is EXTREMELY SOFT #hopefully it makes up for the angst of the last one ;____; #also lol @ myself thinking ‘this one will be shorter’!! #UGH I FORGOT AIR FORCE RANKS ARE DIFFERENT DAMN IT! #blame my late night brain