#i do not want to perceive c!wilbur | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

dr3amofagame · 3 months

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one of the things ive always found neat about c!dreams and c!wilburs dynamic is that c!wilbur is one of the few people on the server who view themselves as equal to dream in terms of strategy and schemes!

interesting!

it's funny to me ... because i think as far as c!dream being perceived as someone specifically like plotting in nature, that was definitely something that evolved over time? like, a lot of c!dream's early reputation was rooted in two things: 1) he's intimidating and 2) he's hard to kill. which meant that people would kind of see antagonizing c!dream as a challenge, in a way, c!tommy being the most obvious example but characters such as c!tubbo, c!fundy, and c!sapnap also getting involved in the action--in general, besting dream was a sort of achievement, so like you say there was a degree of hmm putting him on a pedestal almost. or making him the pedestal might be the more accurate description, where c!dream was The Guy To Beat, Mr. 1000 IQ etc

at the same time tho, dsmp characters are nothing if not full of hubris (LOL) and i don't think c!dream's hmmm strategic genius in character and plotting is something necessarily highlighted that much early on, or at least as something that people couldn't measure up to. lmanburg directly undercuts the intelligence of the "americans" quite often in its creation, as part of the whole Spiel was that americans are idiots and a large part of why the revolution panned out the way it did was because of a relative overestimation by lmanburg of their own combatic and strategic abilities against dream smp. i think the list of people who have estimated themselves as smarter than c!dream and have tried (and failed) to outsmart him is very high tbh, gestures at c!quackity LOL but also like...idk, c!dream's intelligence in terms of the ways people view it on the server always felt ... kinda variable to me? c!dream-as-schemer was more heavily emphasized as "c!dream is someone that only every pursues anything for selfish self-interest" imo

as for the c!wilbur of it all...c!wilbur is undeniably intelligent as a character. and he doesn't particularly underestimate c!dream much, i would say--especially post-revolution, he is very aware that c!dream is an enemy that he doesn't want to have. but at the same time, c!wilbur has a pattern of making somewhat mocking comments particularly about c!dream's intelligence (and when not mocking, sometimes a little...condescending? very much emphasizing the whole "ohhh he's 1000 IQ dream he's so much above all of us" and such) (god. dont remind me of the trivia competition) and also quite fucking easily talks circles around c!dream and does use this to his benefit. then again, i wouldn't say c!wilbur is as strategically minded as c!dream, necessarily--his strengths tend to lie elsewhere. something similar can be said about his "scheming"--even the most successful of his arguable schemes, lmanburg, snowballs quite quickly into something beyond his original intentions and then kind of consumes him.

this is a whole lot of words for a whole lot of nothing, but ig my point is when talking abt characters and intelligence, there's a lot you can say in 1) pinpointing specific areas of intelligence 2) assessing their prowess in each individual area and 3) looking at their ability to assess their own skill in this area as well as the skill of others. in general, i would say that characters on the dream smp tend to underestimate c!dream's strategic skill (or else more people would probably be questioning the whole, staged finale of it all) and their assessment of his scheming tends to be pretty dependent on how much they can use said assessments on his schemes as a vehicle to blame him, lmao (gestures at the mexican lmanburg debates). so from this perspective id say that there are quite a few characters that do think themselves as quote-unquote "smarter" than c!dream and able to out-strategize, out-scheme him (whether or not they're actually capable of this fact) and that if we're talking abt specifically c!dreambur, id say that a post specifically on their perspectives of each other would be MUCH MUCH MUCH longer and much more complicated, on a whole c!wilbur does seem pretty cognizant of the fact that their strengths intellectually lie in different areas and utilizes this in interactions that involve the two. if this makes sense

#a whole mess of an answer but hopefully something here is useful to someone #c!dreambur #my asks !!

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simpleeshea · 2 months

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On the clock!

C!Wilbur x Gn! Reader

Chapter 8

It’s okay, I’m a cheap date.

Tw: alcohol

"So then hold me."

He said this and my mind drew a blank. Wilbur’s watery eyes watched as a breath caught itself in my throat latching onto the inner-workings of my skin like tiny knives, desperate to not be released. I watched as his arms awkwardly motioned open. He was letting me in, he was allowing himself to be vulnerable toward me. And not just in an emotionally vulnerable way. No. Wilbur was standing just a few feet away with his arms shakily outstretched offering to let me.

I hesitated. I hesitated and I hated myself for it. Wilbur’s arms fell flat to his side but just as they did I took quick steps and wrapped my arms around him. It wasn’t my first time hugging him today, but this time it was different. This time Wilbur had offered himself up to me instead of it being a spontaneous act on my part as a way to cheer him up. This was Wilbur actively saying with his actions that he wanted to let me help him, to let me be there for him. His body was taut under my arms before he released a breath and relaxed into the hug, bringing his arms around my body as well to hug me back. He was cold, so cold. It was no wonder to me now as to why he always wears his giant coat. My head pressed hard against his chest, holding him close as a way to say that I would never let him go... never let him fall down the path he had once before. Wilbur was not a lost cause. Even if he stopped believing in himself long ago, I will never stop trying to hold him up, never stop my belief that he can be better, that he is better than who he was before.

"Wilbur?" I asked with a voice muffled into his chest.

"Hmm?" he mused softly, seeming for once completely at ease even though I could hear the small cracking of his voice through his soft and barely perceivable tears.

"What do you say we get out of here?"

He took a small step back but his hands trailed down from my back to hold my elbows. I assumed he did this just so he could still feel the warmth and comfort of my hold as my hands still rested softly on the dips of his waist.

It was at this moment I looked up into his sad brown eyes. They were watering over with salty tears, a few already stained to his cheek. Without thinking I reached up with my hand and wiped his cheek, letting my hand rest on his cold skin for a bit longer before bringing it back to his waist.

"Yeah, I would like that."

I hadn't really put much thought into where we would go. It was just a spontaneous ask. An ask because I knew the headachingly lit lights and whirling sounds of the gas station were far from what Wilbur needed right now. I was far from what Wilbur needed right now. But I would have to suffice. I was hesitant to ask my next question, not because I was embarrassed by my lifestyle but more because I didn't want to make Wilbur uncomfortable, but I still went forward with the question. "We could go back to my place?" Wilbur blinked once at my offer, a small tear trickling down his face as he did. "I know you said getting drunk twice in one work week was a bad idea... but I think you're worth the exception. At least just this once," I tried to laugh halfheartedly.

Slowly a small smile began to form on his lips as he wiped his eyes with his sleeve. "That sounds wonderful," his voice was a bit stronger now, still though, I could hear the pain in the back of his throat as if he ached to scream to the world about his apathy.

My face lit up. I wasn't terribly excited about showing off my small apartment but I knew that Wilbur of all people would never judge me for my state of living.

After I finally made it to the apartment complex with Wilbur tailing behind me, I got out of my beat-up truck and slammed the door hard to make sure it shut all the way before locking it. Wilbur had parked right beside me. His car wasn't anything special either, but it at least looked to be in better condition than mine. I turned and looked at Wilbur as I led him up the stairs, "Sooo..." I hesitated.

"Sooo?" he asked.

"You're gonna have to stand outside for just a second before I let you in so I can make sure it's clean." And before you ask, yes, yes I did clean before leaving. But I was in a hurry to leave when Wilbur asked me to come in and help, which means I left my clothes from before work scattered on the floor.

"Oh okay, that's alright," it was clear to see he felt awkward, which I planned to fix as soon as I could.

I stepped inside right after unlocking my apartment door and quickly scooped the clothes off of the floor and threw them into my hamper. After that, I tossed on a new shirt and pants that weren't stained with an assortment of slushie flavors and then quickly brushed out my hair. "Work air," I rolled my eyes and scoffed before quickly rushing to open the door for Wilbur. His eyes locked onto me as I huffed slightly being out of breath from just running around. "Say hello to my mojo dojo casa house," I joked slightly, not even sure if he would get the reference.

He laughed slightly under his breath, I still wasn't certain if he got the joke and cursed myself for saying something that stupid.

"The Barbie movie was really good," he said adding to the conversation. A breath of relief fell from my mouth as he said that, I suddenly felt a lot better about my joke. Wilbur was good at that: unknowingly taking my anxieties and tossing them in the trash.

"Yeah!" I perked up with a smile as I went into my small kitchen and reached up into a small cabinet reaching for a bottle of cheap wine. "You can sit wherever," I quickly motioned to around the room before continuing on to say, "I actually sobbed watching Barbie, though."

Wilbur nodded and watched as I poured wine into a glass for him and I. "I can see why, it's a lighthearted movie that still brings forth a serious message."

A small warm smile crept up onto my face, pleasantly delighted that he understood. Green flag. I handed him his glass to which he smiled and thanked me before taking a small swig of the red liquid. His brows contorted as he smacked his lips together. "It's shit isn't it?" I laughed and he nodded.

"Yeah, that's bad," he said as he tried to get the taste out of his mouth, "really bad."

I laughed more at his reaction, seeing as he was so repulsed by the red liquid. I lifted my glass to my lips taking a big swallow of it and squinting hard as it burned its way down my throat and chest. I shook my head and gagged. "You're wrong," I wanted to cry, "It's terrible." I sat the glass down and listened to Wilbur snicker in the background and take another drink of the horrible liquid. I turned and gave Wilbur a hard side-eye, to which he only laughed more, nearly spitting out his drink at the look I sent his way.

"How much is the alcohol content in this?" he asked, staring down at the fermented drink as he swirled it around.

"About thirty percent, I think, maybe twenty-five. I'm not too for certain but it's pretty old... and not like the aged kind of old."

Wilbur shook his head as he took another drink, to no one's surprise, it was still bad. "How long have you had that?" his voice sounded disgusted as he asked.

"Since I moved out," I answered quite plainly before taking a small and agonized sip.

"And how long ago was that?"

"You don't even wanna know," my lips formed into a smirk until my eyes focused on the fact that Wilbur was still in his gas station uniform, which was known for having an itchy collar. "Do you want something to change into?" I asked.

"Uhm," Wilbur looked down at his clothes as if he hadn't even noticed, "Yeah sure, if you have something. If not then don't worry about it."

I shrugged, not sure myself if I did have anything that could fit that beanstalk of a man. "Let me look right quick." I sat my drink down on the table and stood up to go look inside my closet. Wilbur's eyes followed as he took another pained sip and I dug around through my small collection of clothes. Suddenly my eyes locked on something that looked big enough. My face lit up in excitement before quickly shoving all of my other clothes out of the way to reveal the hoodie. But slowly as I realized just whose the hoodie was my eyes dimmed. I pulled it off the hanger anyway and tossed it to Wil.

"Oh, so you do have something," Wilbur said slightly surprised.

"That tends to happen when people leave shit at your house," I shrugged trying to ignore the pressure that was forming in my chest. Quickly, I picked my glass back up and drank up the remaining liquid to cancel out the pressure in my chest with a new kind of burn. Wilbur glanced at the hoodie for a moment before taking off his shirt. I watched dumbfounded for a second before covering my eyes with my hand. Wilbur didn't seem to notice or care for my reaction. My mind went numb, and it wasn't because 'Oh mY gOsH, I jUsT sAw HiM sHIrTlEsS', No. It was, oh my gosh, I just saw him shirtless and he has a giant scar in his lower stomach. I felt my stomach sink in a deep sickness. I could feel the whirling of burning liquid deep in my gut just waiting for the perfect moment to come back out of my throat. Wilbur tossed the hoodie over his head and slipped his long arms inside. I bit my lip to try to keep it from quivering as I saw the hoodie. It had been in that closet for god knows how long just collecting dust. I almost burned it after everything that had happened… but I refused to be one of those crazy psycho ex partners even if I am just a bit crazy . Wilbur looked over at as if he seemed to wanted to say something but he was holding himself back. Finally he said, “You have any cigarettes by chance?” I knew that wasn’t what he was originally going to say. Wilbur never hesitated to ask me for a smoke, especially considering how often I bum off of him.

I looked around the room before remembering that I smoked my last one. “No…” my voice trailed off before I remembered something and quickly stood up. I was surprised by how dizzy I felt for a moment but ignored it as I ran over to my paint-chipped nightstand and rummaged through the drawer before pulling out a small device.

I took a quick hit from the cool grape flavored nic-stick as I liked to call it before tossing it over to him. “I have this though.”

Wilbur’s eyes seemed to slowly light up, I could tell the alcohol was starting to hit him too. “Rightttt, from when you tried to switch over.” He laughed, “That didn’t last long.”

“Yeah I hated having to charge it,” I said shaking my head before going to sit back down at my small table and pouring another glass of shit wine.

“Really? In surprised it’s alive then,” he said before tossing it back over to me as I took a long hit from the device only for it to not work.

“You jinxed it…” my voice pouted as I slapped the vape down on the table.

Wilbur laughed wholeheartedly, it was a pleasant change to the tears from earlier today. A groan fell from my mouth as I got up to find a charger and plug it in. My mind was hazy and it felt like an animation with missing frames. “Hey y/n,” Wilbur asked catching my attention. I turned my heavy head toward him as I felt the charger click into place inside the device.

“Yeah, Wilbur?”

“Do you think I could ever actually apologize to Tommy?”

I sat for a second on the bed and looked at him as he sat at the table. He was tipsy, I could see it very clearly despite the rest of my vision being far from clear. I sighed softly before saying, “Wilbur… do you think you think you can?”

He seemed taken aback by the question, as if he hadn’t expected the tables to turn on him. “Well I-“ he paused, searching the room as if it could give him the answer. “I don’t… I don’t know.”

“I don’t think you can.”

“What?” his words fell softly and brokenly.

“I know that you can, Wilbur,” I beamed at my own cheesiness and Wilbur could tell I was trying to make him smile. “Of course you can, maybe not nowwww… but you will, eventually.” I shrugged taking the vape off of the charger for a moment to get a good hit in before tossing it across the room hoping Wilbur could catch it in his dizzying state. And he didn’t. But thankfully it fell on the carpeted part of the floor to which he picked it up.

Wilbur in his hazy state bent over to pick up the small purple device and bring it to his lips. "Thanks, Y/n," he said in a whisper as smoke came rolling out from his lips.

I nodded before standing up and walking over to sit across from Wilbur at the table. I threw my head back with glass in hand, taking a big drink feeling as it burned its way down. I shook my head disapprovingly of the taste. "We should play a game," I say simply, feeling bored.

"Like what?" Wilbur said with thick a thick voice.

"I dunnoooo," I drawled, "Just a game."

Wilbur took another long hit from the vape before sliding it across the table back over to me. I felt my head grow heavy so I slumped it onto the table just barely peeking up at the fluffy-haired man through my arms. A random thought popped into my head, it was only just for a moment, but just a moment was enough for my far from sober state to blurt it aloud. "You're eyes are so pretty."

Completely forgetting about my game question Wilbur looked down at me with a strange look on his face only for it to slowly turn into a smirk. "Really?" his voice was heavy, we were both clearly drunk at this point. "What else?"

"Pardon?" I asked genuinely lost.

Wilbur smirked, standing up slowly from his chair and coming behind me. I felt a chill tingle in my spine as he stood there for a moment before he slowly bent forward his chest pressingly slightly against my back leaving my breath to be caught in my throat. My eyes went wide as I felt him against me until I saw his hand snake over and grab the vape sitting right in front of me on the table. He just wanted the nic-stick, was the conclusion I came to, but as he leaned back with vape in hand he asked again, "What else do you think about me?"

I turned in my chair giving him a confused look as he only seemed to smirk wider before putting the device to his lips and blowing out smoke from his nose. I turned back and took another drink of wine, knowing that it was a need in this moment. My glass hit the table with a small thud as I sat it down. My mind was far too hazy to think about anything at all and it only got worse as Wilbur's hand moved to rest on my shoulder from behind me. His arm reached around with vape in hand, he held the device to my mouth and despite the uneasiness I felt, I still sucked in the metallic vapor and felt as it slowly rushed to my brain. It felt as though he was trying to get me nic high and drunk so he could hear exactly everything I thought about him. "Am I being interrogated?" I said hazily.

Wilbur chuckled deeply, "No. Just curious."

"mmmm," I mused, taking the vape from him and hopping up to throw it back on the charger in my bed. His eyes watched each step I took. "So you want to know what else I think?"

He nodded, taking what remained in my wine glass and gulping it down quickly.

"Well, what do you want to know?"

Wilbur shrugged, "Anything at all," he went on further to say, "I want to know how your pretty little head sees me."

I could feel the heat rise to my face even though I wasn't even too sure it was a compliment in my state. My eyes slowly trailed to stare at the wall while my brain wandered in deep thought. "I think you're really tall," I said confidently. "Fuckin' beanstalk," I mumbled.

Wilbur's brows rose and his eyes went wide before falling back to a resting position and his lips forming into a smirk. Slowly he approached the bed and sat down beside me, reaching over his hand just barely grazing my upper thigh as he leaned over in close again to reach for the device on the charger. "What was that last part," he whispered lowly as he reached in and as he pulled away he finished by saying, "I didn't quite catch it."

I stared at him, my head was throbbing and the room felt like it was spinning. In this state I didn't give too shits... maybe that was why I enjoyed being drunk so much, I could speak my mind and I didn't worry so much about what others thought. I leaned into his ear and whispered, "I said...FUCKIN' BEANSTALK" the last few words were yelled into his ear. I leaned backward in a fit of laughter, laying back on my pillow as I giggled and Wilbur grumbled about me yelling in his ear.

He shot me a dirty look before giving me a quick slap to the arm.

"Owwww," I pouted.

"You're fine," he huffed out angrily. I gave him a side-eyed look before crossing my arms and turning away from him. He stared at me as I looked away from him, staring indignantly at the boring wall. "You're so beautiful." I blinked once before his hand snaked over to cup my cheek and turn it to face him. "You deserve to know that," he said softly. "Sometimes I don't think you realize the effect you have on others."

"What-" I stared at him in confusion, bringing my hand to his on my cheek and moving it down to hold it in my lap, "What do you mean?"

He offered me a warm smile, "You try to act like you have all of your shit together all of the time... You smile and laugh, trying to make sure everyone else is happy before worrying about yourself. You're so genuine... I think that's what I really like about you, Y/n."

I was completely and utterly lost. HUH?! ME? Genuine??? I laughed, "Wilbur you do realize you know like nothing about me? I can't bring myself to share with you who I actually am... You're-" I paused shaking my head in crazed laughter, "You're so much stronger than I am. You've gone through so much. So much! Way worse than I have and you can still share it with me- with the world."

Wilbur's face morphed into a frown, "But you still have the strength to smile... to make me smile," he said drunkenly. "I wasn't," he gave a small exhale, fumbling with his hands in his lap. He blinked hard before saying, "I wasn't happy before you came into my life. When I'm at work, I feel as though I'm the happiest I've been in a long time... and it's all because of you."

I was gobsmacked... and a little upset knowing I probably wouldn't remember much of this conversation in the morning. My body was swaying and my head spinning, "Wilbur I-"

"You don't have to say anything," he said with a warm smile cutting me off as he spoke, "You just needed to know."

----

To this day I can't recall much else from that night. Even most of that was just how I assume my brain filled in the gaps, what I had come to believe as truth to what had happened that night. The only thing I know for a fact is that I woke up with Wilbur beside me in bed, cuddled up next to my frame.

A/N

Rip to my icy grape nic stick, she will be missed.

Anywhore, I'm alive. After a bit of health issues, I'm back and working again.

#Spotify #wilbur x y/n #dsmp wilbur #wilbur mcyt #wilbur soot #wilbur x reader #gas station #c!wilbur x reader #x reader #mcyt x you

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faebriel · 6 months

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what are your thoughts on rainduo when it comes to their traits & being foils to the other? I just saw a post talking abt clingyduo w/Emotion vs logic and their flaws being foils, and immediately thought abt rainduo’s side of things

this is the kind of question that makes me want to deepdive rewatch like 30+ hours of vods anon. i don't have time for that though so i'm going to go for a vibes based analysis

the thing that makes me Think about wilbur and niki is that they do share similar traits but those traits show themselves at very different times. stubborn, a unique relationship to righteousness, an inability to get over hurts, a tendency towards causing travesty in their own self destruction (or at least attempting to - they are similar in more ways than they're different, i think. my gut instinct is always to say that they're quite different people but then i go ooooh, no. they share that trait too. and that one. and th

it's like they're too similar to be mirrors, and too similar to be foils.

here are traits i think they share:

they are very loud and stubborn individuals who largely stick up for whatever they have decided their cause is, even if it makes them unpopular

they both let their emotions control them and feel those emotions strongly - they love and hate like nobody's business

when they pick a grudge, it pretty much takes life-changing circumstances to make them drop it. on the flipside, while i think they'd both consider themselves to be quite loyal people, when circumstances start going sour they get a bit... flexible in their priorities.

they are both desperate for community

their self-destruction goes hand in hand with outward destruction. me and the bestie propagating collateral damage 🙌🙌🙌

and here are some traits i do think are entirely different between them:

niki had to find a home in the dsmp; wilbur had to leave. she couldn't heal without other people around and he had to get the fuck away from all of them to do so

niki lashes out in ways that are far from incidental, harsh and real, while for wilbur the actuality of violence seems to come a bit second hand to being theatrical; compare niki's (and jack's) plan to murder tommy by literally dropping a nuke onto his head in the middle of nowhere with wilbur's prolonged, theatrical, and constantly observed plan to destroy l'manberg (and i mean, compare the craters!)

related: i truly don't think c!niki has given a damn about the theoretical terms of politics in her entire life, while wilbur lets it rule him

everything is wilbur's fault always and nothing is niki's fault ever. niki is a villain as an end product, she was made into one; wilbur was one from the start and was the root cause of the poison around him (as perceived by them respectively)

i wouldn't say niki is never suspicious of other people but i think her suspicions tend to stem from trauma and a disconnection from community - real and traumatic events in her life - while wilbur's paranoia was pathological and then got exacerbated by the trauma of the FCR. but i might be dipping in a bit of headcanon there

ultimately they're like an earth to air contrast - i think wilbur is far more concerned with the artificial, and niki is far more concerned with the real. he dies in the open wreckage of the button room and she almost dies in the guts of the earth, both caverns of their own making

#it's why i think seeing the two of them cross paths at different points of their personal journeys in canon would be so interesting #i feel like we always see them at their opposites but never when they act in similar ways #thanks nonnie i love to talk about these guys :] <3 #asks #i almost put 'bad at everything but slap fighting' in the similarities list. btw

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altair214 · 2 years

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Another rant about c!Dream

It’s also how much c!Dream is willing to sacrifice for his goal that makes me insanely curious about what his plan is.

Now a lot of people would say that he wants power, but if that were true, he’s going about it the total wrong way and would have a fundamental misunderstanding about how people work. But I don’t think that could be it because of how many of his plans worked because he knew how people would react to certain things and how people perceive him (such as the disc finale). The right way to go about getting power would be to follow in c!Wilbur’s footsteps, rally people around a common enemy and build up the persona of a great leader. But he’s not doing that.

Some would still say that he doesn’t care about being popular and just wants control, but c!Dream is smart enough to have successfully pulled off staging the disc finale, surely he knows that taking power by force NEVER works for long.

So what does he want? One of the theories as to why c!Dream might have staged the finale was to bring the server together by giving them a common enemy, himself. So if everyone teamed up together to put him in prison, they’d unite. If he got out, they’d unite to take him down. Is his plan really to be perpetually be on the run in the hopes that everyone would unite to try to take him down? Somehow I don’t think that’s it. It just doesn’t make sense that c!Dream would be smart enough to pull off the disc finale, but unable to see that the server doesn’t ever stay united for long, even if they have a common enemy.

So what is his plan? What is it that makes sacrificing everything worth it? Losing all his friends with c!Punz and (probably) ew!Ranboo being the only exception. Willingly giving up 2 of his canon lives and his freedom. Committing heinous crimes of which he fully understands their severity. But if it’s to further his plan, it’s all worth it. It makes me insanely curious to know what the plan is. It makes me wonder, is there something bigger at play?

#c!dream #dreamwastaken #c!wilbur #wilbursoot #c!punz #punz #c!ranboo #ew!ranboo #dream smp #dsmp #mcyt #dream smp theory #dreblr

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peearrdee · 2 years

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The May 19th, 2022 streams done by Eret and Wilbur Soot pull out a lot of conflicting feelings for fans. Now, almost exactly 2 years out from the Final Control Room, I want to reflect on those feelings. My Own Judas is a litmus test for Dream SMP girlbloggers. I’m limited by my own observations of my dashboard after the stream, but here’s my thoughts.

I noticed that after the stream a number of Wilbur mains expressing fury that c!Eret was demanding an apology from c!Wilbur. The common consensus was that Eret had not “earned” their redemption and that Wilbur was being unfairly put down.

In real life, you cannot earn forgiveness. You cannot earn redemption. Forgiveness is given to you, and redemption and justice are concepts rooted entirely in personal beliefs and morality.

From a storytelling perspective, Eret has earned their redemption because the author has shown them doing the emotional labor of trying to reconcile with others. Eret recognized the harm they did, regretted it, and made efforts again and again to do better, and help those they hurt.

Eret’s betrayal caused Tubbo and Tommy to lose their first lives. (Note: the 3 lives system was not canonized until November 16th. At the time of the betrayal, all players played under the assumption that a death just meant a loss of items. Many viewers were still unaware that what they were watching was roleplay.) By the time of the Disc Confrontation, Eret was working towards becoming a better person. You may remember Eret put themself between Dream and the two teenagers, signaling that they were firmly against Dream even if it would mean going against the man who gave them the kingship.

As for the claim that Wilbur was unfairly treated by Eret in their demands for an apology, I will say this:

I will openly admit that there is a feeling of superiority among c!Wilbur “mains” that stems from the belief that we’re following a major—if not the main—character of the Dream SMP story. I would say it is difficult to find anyone on the analysis side of the fandom who would say Wilbur’s story is poorly written. And there is a pervasive feeling of defensiveness among Wilbur mains because of the ways the character been vilified by the fandom. People want to defend their favorite character. All of these factors lead to a tendency towards dismissing the other writers/actors.

However, Wilbur has been far less dedicated to seeking forgiveness than Eret. Wilbur seeks validation from other and their opinions of him deeply affect his self perception. He believes himself unworthy of love and forgiveness, however he also has an inherent belief that he deserves justice. These two ideas appear contradictory, but his romantic attitude towards life reveals why this occurs. Wilbur perceives himself as the main character of his story. He perceives himself as the hero in the Revolution, but after the Election this belief begins to crumble.

Exemplified by the quote: “Tommy, are we the bad guys?”, in Pogtopia Wilbur’s self and public image declined, and he decided that he obviously must be the villain, a belief fed by his actions towards others under increasingly stressful circumstances. He began to abandon attempts at being the better person and embraced the persona of villainy. This character change and his belief that L’Manberg had become irreversibly changed is what culminated in his suicide, an ending that he considered to be poetic justice.

Revival led him to believe he had a greater purpose again. To Wilbur’s logic, a dead man is not brought back randomly: there must be both a narrative purpose he must fulfill, and whatever purpose Dream intended for him. The purpose he latched onto was Quackity, which is a whole ‘nother can of psycho-competitive worms.

After Hitting on 16 and Bust, Wilbur sees himself on a journey to make things right to people he has wronged. However, because growing as a person is difficult and emotionally painful, Wilbur tries to do it as fast as possible in order to give others closure and feel like he’s doing what is necessary for his “narrative”. (Note: I am referring to the narrative character!Wilbur has constructed for himself, not the actual narrative of the streams written by cc!Wilbur.)

When Wilbur gave Eret a quick, half hearted apology, Eret called him out on it. Eret had worked for their redemption arc, and they wanted Wilbur to treat them with the same respect. Eret was unsatisfied with the bare minimum of emotional investment from Wilbur. When Wilbur is confronted in this way by Eret, Wilbur does not understand that what Eret wants is an acknowledgment of their struggle and a commitment from Wilbur to be worthy of his redemption, to put effort into being a better person.

Eret made Wilbur confront the fact that self flagellation does not solve anyone’s problems. Wilbur has a tendency to wallow in his self loathing and make nothing of it, insisting that he is unworthy and therefore incapable of positive change. Eret forced Wilbur to acknowledge that he is not evil, that he is more than capable of being the man he once was.

By throwing away their crown, Eret showed Wilbur they were more than just the King. Eret showed him they were committed to change, they would not trade the lives of their friends for power again. Disposing of the TNT along with the crown symbolized Wilbur choosing to be better, choosing to avoid the kinds of behaviors that led to November 16th and Ranboo’s death in Hitting on 16.

However, believing Eret to be completely in the right is equally dismissive of the story: they are both flawed, hurt people. Eret incorrectly believes power corrupted Wilbur the way it corrupted them, projecting Wilbur’s actions and attitude on the 16th back to his early presidency. Eret sees a “madman”, not the character the audience watches whose monologues reveal a 7 layer dip of issues.

Eret has only their own observational knowledge of the severity of Wilbur’s mental health crisis. They presumably suspected Wilbur was suicidal on the bridge, where they pull him back from his contemplation of just throwing himself off the bridge, but they likely do not know the extent to which he believes himself unworthy of being loved or respected. How Wilbur would choose to act from then on is not on Eret.

If you think they have both been dragged through the mud for their actions, and deserve redemption divorced from the forgiveness of others—with the understanding that doing so gives both parties an attempt at closure—then I am kissing you on the mouth. Because I do not have to be a therapist to tell you that relying on other’s opinions of you is an unhealthy way to maintain your own self esteem.

A crucial part of apologies that is often forgotten is making the effort to repair the relationship and fix the problem. Eret can’t undo the Final Control Room, and Wilbur can’t possibly undo all the wars, but they both made a commitment to each other with the TNT and crown.

#prd talks #fandom critical #c!eret critical #c!wilbur critical #button duo #dream smp analysis #wilbur #eret #it’s a little Wilbur centric because I am also Biased about the Blorbo #i fucking love this stream man

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crimeboyisms · 2 years

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When analyzing the Dream SMP, I feel as if some people allow their own personal vision of the story cloud their discussions too much. When I say this, I am referring to the people who either treat the story as completely literal in the Minecraft sense, and are the types of people to say, "It's just Minecraft roleplay", and the people who make the one for one comparisons of the story to real world issues and say things like, "Pandora's Vault violated the Geniva Conventions". When consuming the story personally, it's fine to perceive it however you'd like, but if you're engaging in actual analysis with others it's best to defer to the actual intentions of the writers and how they wanted the story to be conveyed and interpreted and examine it in that context.

When Wilbur Soot the Guy was demeaning and harsh with c!Tommy in the ravine, did he mean to make his character abusive? Personally, I don't believe that was his intention at all. Was exile meant to be light-hearted and based in comedy due to the fact that it was acted in Minecraft? No, the medium does not take away from the message. Was Doomsday meant to be an attack on the characters we know who are developed, or are there unseen casualties from the hypothetical citizens of L'manburg as if it was a city state? Likely not. This is what I mean when I say meta analysis is a vital part of understanding the story. These characters are inevitably tied to their creators, and it's important to take into account what those creators were trying to convey when the act and write their stories.

Again, it's fine to discuss interesting hypotheticals and do deep dives into the characters and the story that may not be what the writers originally intended, but if we're discussing the actual canon source material, we should keep in mind what the story is originally trying to convey to the audience.

#i had this in my drafts since february and i forgot to post it #erm i suppose it's relevant now so ya

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dreamologisth2o · 2 years

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Curious about what your post about c!Dream's authority means? He seems to have authority to me, but also I wasn't around to watch the earlier streams and largely get information from other people's analysis

Welp, looks like I have to answer now lol. There are actually plenty of people in the tags of the post who put it a lot better than I do but it basically boils down to how, from what I remember, Tommy and Wilbur and Quackity all treating Dream like this “authority” to be taken down, or the one to go to for permission in creating a country/confirming legitimacy when he really, doesn’t have that power or authority? It’s one of those things people just assume he has and treat him like he does, but only whenever it’s convenient for their own agendas

Take Tommy, for example. He’s the only one I’ve mentioned who doesn’t make Dream’s “authority” political, but he still treats Dream as this “top dog” to take down. When Dream tries to tell him to stop or to follow the rules or even just apologize, he doesn’t. Ergo Tommy doesn’t respect Dream’s “authority” or care that it exists, because to him it only exists as a reason/way for Tommy to “take Dream down”.

Now for Wilbur, it’s the same thing, basically. But he makes Dream’s “authority” political. Wilbur’s the one who decided that Dream was the ruler of the Dream SMP, because he needed a clear cut leader to fight against, and not just a rag tag group of server members who don’t like what he’s doing, but also aren’t particularly inclined to stop him. But when it comes to Dream actually asking him to do things, or to follow the rules or to, y’know, not exclude over half the server from even entering their little plot of land, Wilbur, obviously, doesn’t follow. He doesn’t respect Dream’s “authority” or acknowledge that it’s real at all. If he did negotiations wouldn’t have essentially amounted to Dream asking Wilbur to stop and Wilbur saying “No <3”. Dream’s “authority”, once again, only exists so far as Wilbur needs it to exist, in order to have his little revolution, in order to stick it to the man, in order to have his little country and his little presidency acknowledged as real and important, even if he has zero real respect for the man he wants it from. And this trend has continued far past the prison arc. If Dream had real political “authority”, beforehand, he certainly doesn’t have any now.

As for Quackity, just go watch the whole Mexican L’manberg fiasco. Man blows up his fiancé, steals the king’s throne, all in an attempt to get his country recognized by Dream (might be mistaken, can’t remember if it was because he wanted recognition from Dream or in spite of Dream lol), but when they finally resolve the conflict and Dream asks for an apology from Quackity, along with one to Eret, Quackity flat out refuses to apologize to Dream. Like, do you respect about Dream’s “authority” or not? If you do why are you spitting it in his face like that? If you don’t, why are you treating him like he’s the sole authority on country legitimacy then???

It’s this trend of people assuming and then assigning authority and power to Dream when he really doesn’t have any because it’s convenient for them at the time. And the moment it’s no longer convenient they pretend the given authority doesn’t exist. Even now, where any political importance or power or authority Dream might have had beforehand is completely gone, Wilbur’s still looking for his “approval” from Dream, an escaped criminal he wants to kill.

Of course, it’s not like Dream doesn’t take advantage of any perceived authority he has over the server or whatever, but people don’t really respect him as any sort of political power or authority or as a perceived ruler of the server. They respect him because of his prowess in battle and going through with threats and acting like a scary motherfucker when he needs to be.

But yeah, the moment Dream tries to use his “authority” it doesn’t exist, and the moment it’s useful to have Dream as a scapegoat for their own agendas, he’s in charge of the entire server. That’s what I mean by “Dream’s authority only exists for other people to shit on.” It’s only ever acknowledged when they need someone “in charge” to shit on.

(Of course, this isn’t counting how other members of the server give Dream this authority but actually respect it, or the way everyone just, assumes he’s got some inherent authority over the server no one else has. And the ways Dream has tried to play it to his advantage. This is just mostly talking about that of the people who actively acknowledge Dream as having authority over the server, his authority only exists for them as long as it benefits their own agendas. Whether that agenda is to take down the Top Dog or to Stick it to the Man or have their country acknowledged as legitimate.)

#my asks #long post #analysis #serious response to my own shitpost #what is authority if not a way for others to piss on you?#anyways #thank the dreblr discord for this one lol #and check out the tags on the other post #there are some really good ones there #adding something in the tags #after like #the first half of season one #the people who aren’t on Dream’s side #when they listen to him #it’s not because he’s ‘in charge’#of anything #it’s because he’s too scary/threatening to go against

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starlyte-writes · 2 years

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Sorry I know it’s been literal months but Hitting On 16 is still rotting away in my head-

Like it was SO good you guys I’m dying because we all took it as c!Wilbur’s arc right? And it was, BUT, it was also c!Ranboo’s arc. They both grew in such a dramatic healthy way from their friendship with the burger van and I can’t stop THINKING ABOUT IT!

By becoming friends with c!Ranboo, c!Wilbur learned to open up and trust somebody with blind faith and nothing more. Sure, at the beginning, he tested him to see how quickly he’d chicken out and abandon c!Wilbur, but pretty soon after he realized that wasn’t necessary and it was just c!Wilbur and c!Ranboo causing mischief to piss off c!Quackity.

One of my favorite things about c!Wilbur is how he acts the most like a friend when he’s not thinking about it. Giving c!Ranboo sweet nicknames, complimenting him, hyping him up, cheering him on, all these small things he doesn’t even think about because it’s just subconscious love for his friend. He becomes healthier with his bond with c!Ranboo and can actually chat and hang out without the constant fear of “being perceived as evil” taunting his mind.

And then there’s change on c!Ranboo’s end as well!! If you actually really truly think about it, being on c!Wilbur’s “side” of the burger arc was the first time he ever chose a side. Before then, c!Ranboo would do anything he could to help out all parties, even if they directly contrasted each other. He didn’t want to make anyone upset and would therefore make everyone upset by not being loyal to one specific group. Even with the cookie outpost, while he was primarily in c!Tubbo’s favor, he still tried to negotiate and more importantly get along with c!Quackity, which to his sadness didn’t work out.

But then in comes c!Wilbur, who is passionate and impulsive and paranoid and thinks nobody would ever willingly choose to stand by his side. And c!Ranboo wants to give him a chance, to prove that that thinking is wrong. And the only way to do that is to directly oppose c!Quackity.

So he does. c!Ranboo, no matter how risky or sketchy a plan c!Wilbur creates, always follows through. Even when it’s directly going against his good morals (like vandalizing the restaurant) or the people he cares about (like his own fucking husband!) And this isn’t because c!Wilbur manipulates him into following his every command, it’s because he cares about c!Wilbur!

While nervous at first, throughout their time together c!Ranboo genuinely begins to enjoy his company and following his crazy ideas. He goes along with him because he wants to keep an eye on his friend, or keep him happy, anything to prove to c!Wilbur that “I am hanging out with you because I want to, exactly what you thought no one could do.”

It’s through his friendship with c!Wilbur that c!Ranboo learns the values of dedicating to a specific side. Sure, it creates conflicts that are messy and not fun, but it’s worth it to fight for something you care about, which is exactly what he tells c!Tubbo!

“For God’s sake, just give him a chance! I know that I haven’t always made the best decisions with who I trust but this time I swear to you that things may not always be as bad as you think! I mean, people change, people get better and if you never give them a chance to prove it you’ll be stuck hating everyone that has ever wronged you and you won’t have anyone left...”

He is directly opposing his husband to stand for what he believes in, which is c!Wilbur being a better person. And while I am convinced there is a little self-projecting going on in here that might’ve helped motivate him, it is in part because he believes in c!Wilbur.

The saddest part is that their own personal flaws outpower their friendship, which leads to their inevitable downfall. c!Ranboo is never able to outright express his feelings to another person despite them all expressing their feelings towards him, leading to him killing himself to make a point thinking that would hit c!Wilbur more clearly than just directly talking to him.

Then on c!Wilbur’s end, not having c!Ranboo clarify and reassure him that he did enjoy being friends with him, his self-hatred wins out and he convinces himself that c!Ranboo never wanted anything to do with him. That he was spending time with c!Wilbur against his own free will.

They both grew thanks to their friendship, but it wasn’t enough to fight against all of the other problems they both still need to work on. I just- THIS man- ARE YOU HEARING ME? HITTING ON 16 WAS THEIR STORY AGH!

#star's analysis #dream smp #hitting on 16 #wilbur soot #ranboo #c!wilbur #c!ranboo #c!burger boys #ho16 #dsmp lore #tw caps #tw cursing #tw suicide mention #obviously there was a lot of growing for c!quackity c!tubbo and c!tommy as well #but the biggest focus of this story was their friendship and how they changed with it #neither of them had ever dedicated to friendship like that #for c!wilbur you could say he has with c!tommy but that relationship is a lot more complex and different than his with c!ranboo #they both have to evolve and get accustomed to changing for the better to be a better friend #unfortunately too many other factors got in the way to allow them to finish growing #i seriously need c!ranboo to get revived and just slap c!wil in the face and go #'HEY'#'I LIKED BEING YOUR FRIEND'#'STOP THINKING I DIDN'T'#i care very deeply for burger boys if you haven't already guessed #long post #long tags #tw italics #man i missed analysis i sound fucking bonkers it's great #star rants

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bonesandthebees · 1 year

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So guess who just finished the newest Stars chapter? You weren’t kidding when you said we would have a field day. Where the fuck am I supposed to start, Bee?!? There’s so much. And it was so satisfying to read. I’m gonna start by gushing about the unreliable narration. Because it’s been such a wild ride and you finally pulled back the curtain a little.

Because technically we should know right? Of course Ranboo is reporting back to Techno. Wilbur spends most of his time there believing it. And you lead us along this road of believing Tommy is being dumb by giving him the benefit of the doubt and thinking Ranboo is his friend and just a kid.

And then Wilbur gets more and more paranoid to the point of not trusting Tommy or himself. And Tommy is fighting his paranoia at every turn so you think maybe it is just paranoia, maybe there’s nothing there. And Wilbur starts to trust more and Aimsey calls him out and Ranboo said he just wanted to be friends while he’s still so damn noisy.

But you think maybe, just maybe, it’s just that, especially last chapter cuz this chapter he’s being noisy again and a little more suspicious which is part of the foreshadowing. Learning that Tommy also thinks he’s noisy and tells him off makes him more suspicious because if he’s trying to figure Wilbur out, why is he still pushing Tommy?

Jack fits in great with this too btw. Because he’s a guard and Wilbur knows he has orders and reports back. But then Jack reveals that he doesn’t and Wilbur trusts him. And there’s transparency there. And Jack and Wilbur are friend so I do still think Jack genuinely doesn’t report back but congrats on having me doubt it anyway. So if Jack has the order Ranboo might also have the order, but he’s not a guard. And if Jack can decide not to do it because of his friendship with Wilbur, Ranboo could do the same with Tommy.

But he didn’t.

-🌲

Okay spruce my flight boards in 6 min so I’m not gonna get through nearly as many of your asks as I thought lol but I’ll try to get through at least 1-2!

Unreliable narration my beloved <3 I feel like so many writers don’t realize how far they can go with it unless they’re going extreme with unreliable narration. If you’re in a single characters head, the perspective is gonna be skewed. But as readers we forget that because that one voice is our only insight into the world.

From the beginning, Wilbur suspected Ranboo. But then Wilbur’s POV gets questioned, and he starts second guessing himself so his POV changes to reflect that. Signs of suspicious from Ranboo are ignored or downplayed in the narration because that’s Wilbur tamping down on his inner paranoia.

I wanted to try and make Ranboo’s nosiness something that could almost just be seen as a character trait of his. Because in the dsmp, c!Ranboo is a centrist who likes hearing all sides of things. And I wanted to use the readers impressions of c!Ranboo against them, but not in a way that was ooc for c!ranboo. In my opinion, this is still fairly in character with c!ranboo’s people pleasing tendencies and his spineless, hypocritical nature. He’s not tricking Tommy out of malice. It’s because he wants to prove himself and make sure Techno likes him. But a lot of the fandom I think has a skewed view of c!ranboo and perceives him as a lot nicer or more genuine than he really is, so I wanted to take advantage of that and make readers think stars!Ranboo was like that. Genuine, sweet, if a bit awkward. So unreliable narration plus the medium of this being fanfic itself really helped with my trickery :)

Exactly! Jack can find a way around his orders, so Ranboo 100% could too. With the reveal, I wanted to emphasize that Ranboo has a CHOICE. He doesn’t have to do this. Techno even gives him an out! But he insists. This wasn’t something he was bullied into. It’s something he just doesn’t view as that bad because he’s a hypocritical lil guy

#ask #the stars and their children #spruce anon

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missycolorful · 2 years

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Okay, so I've been thinking on this a bit, and I wrote most of this sick in bed while looking back on the last c!Wilbur stream, with nothing else to do on a fine afternoon. And I kinda wanted to put my thoughts on this into something more cohesive.

With just one last c!Wilbur stream to go, barring any where he is present from someone else's perspective, there is still a lot left to be said for a lot of dynamics involving Wilbur. More specifically, him and his father. They have a lot to talk about, but I believe there's more for them talk about than the general audience perceives.

Now, naturally, most of us find that c!Phil should directly apologize to his son. Despite c!Wilbur forgiving him and even thanking his father for assisting in his suicide, Wilbur needs to directly hear an apology from the source to know that what happened was bad and shouldn't have happened.

However, I do believe that there is room for Wilbur, in turn, to apologize to his father, things left unsaid not just by Wilbur, but even from Philza and most of the fanbase.

The latter's what I want to talk about more. We all know it'd be important for c!Phil to openly apologize to his son in his assisted suicide. But there's not a lot of talk about the latter. I want to get into why that's the case, what I believe should be said, why I find this scenario makes sense to me in a way that isn't just "I'm a philza fan", and why it should be discussed more.

Now, this isn't something that I'm, like, demanding out of the storyline. I'm not gonna be upset if it doesn't happen the way I want it; as long as the execution of Wilbur's story is satisfying in some way, that's fine. I do, at the very least, believe that father and son will attempt to reconcile before Wilbur's story ends. I don't doubt that. This is more so just how I'd personally like to see it play out.

Yes, Wilbur already apologized for lying in the letters, explaining why he did it and promising not to lie again (a lie). That was a big piece of their strained relationship, where Philza worried he couldn't trust his son, so the apology was rather important. But what else could I be referring to, then? And how important would it be for the story?

Well, to be quite frank, pretty everything involving what happened on November 16th. I'll get into more detail on that later.

Firstly, however, the topic of mental illness does come into play here. There's discussions in that Wilbur shouldn't have to apologize for things like "leaving us behind" as c!Niki said in the last lore stream. Saying that Wilbur shouldn't have to apologize too much to others because he was mentally ill, since the bare bones of what happened is Wilbur committing suicide via his father. His depression is written in a way that makes people with similar mental illnesses relate to him. Whenever they believe he is being wronged or misrepresented, they seek to defend him. A natural response! This includes believing that he shouldn't have to feel bad/say sorry for making his friends feel this way, as he was in a bad mental space. That sort of plays into why so few think about Wilbur apologizing to Philza for the 16th, since Phil was the one to drive a sword through his ribs. Because, well, "why apologize for asking to kill yourself?"

While that's not wrong to find that thinking iffy, and I see this perspective clearly, I feel like it's a flawed piece of logic, at least for the context of this story.

That mindset of letting one's mental illness become a way to absolve a need of forgiveness for one's actions comes with pitfalls. One's mental illness can explain your actions, but never excuse them. If you've hurt someone, while in a depressive state, it doesn't matter the way you carried your weapon; you still hurt them. They have been scarred. So is it truly that cruel to want someone who has hurt others to apologize? Apologies are mostly meant for the person receiving it, the person who was hurt. It is a way for that person to receive acknowledgement that “hey, my actions have negatively affected you, and I want you to know I’m sorry that I have hurt you in any way.”

Apologizing does not have to mean "I apologize for my health health." Rather, "my mental health has spiraled to a point where I hurt you, and I am sorry for that." To try to spin these sort of apologies as a way to undermine mental health is odd, because that's not what people are doing (imagine people watching Bojack Horseman and thinking "aww, but no, he's depressed, he shouldn't have to apologize for everything that happened to Sarah Lynn, that's dumb that's so dumb (I know the Sarah Lynn thing was way worse than anything Wilbur has done personally to someone SHUSH!!)). We want to allow the person that was hurt to be acknowledged that they were hurt in some capacity, receive closure, and most importantly, so they can move on with their life. This even allows the other person to accept what they have done, to work on themselves and ensure they don't try to hurt themselves or others again.

Thus, we cannot disregard what Wilbur has done because of his bad mental state. It is simply not fair to those who were damaged by him. In fact, if mental health is as significant to this storyline, then we need to consider the mental health of everyone else around Wilbur, as well. Many of his friends' own mental states likely worsened because of him. Even his father's.

Because here's the thing: (ignoring all the meta context of this improved scene, where cc!Wilbur basically pushed cc!Philza into killing his character when the explosions didn't--even though I like to think that the way the meta was executed can even bleed into the lore context) Wilbur manipulated his father into killing him, and left his father an emotionally damaged, grief-ridden wreck.

I'm surprised we don't talk about this a lot, even though the term manipulation can leave such a bad taste, in how evil it sounds. If we stick to the bare basic definition of manipulation, however, it is what happened. Grab any typical description, such as "control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously" or "any attempt to sway someone's emotions to get them to act or feel a certain way." You get the idea. So now we ask how exactly Wilbur manipulated Philza.

Think back to the Button Room scene. Think back to Philza's reactions. "I can't-" 'You're my SON!" Initially, he did not want to commit the heinous act Wilbur asked of him. He was against it. This left Wilbur no longer in control of this situation; he was going to be forced to confront what he did and receive consequences of it from his friends. He was panicking, so he resorted to using his best weapon: his words, persuasion. He says what he thinks will convince Philza to do what he does not want to do. "Everyone wants you to do it." "Look at what I did!" (and though not canon at the time due to the changes in the story, he did not mention that he only had one life). And it works, and Philza is convinced to kill his son. He managed to influence and sway Philza into committing an act he did not want to do prior. So yes he manipulated him.

There's also the fact that the situation he placed his father into was an awful, tragic one. If anyone has ever been in a position where they were faced with someone about to commit suicide, they know how dangerous it is. (or I shudder at the thought of anyone being put in a position where someone gives you the weapon, begging you to kill them, which christ!) It's one that no one should ever find themselves in, no matter the circumstances, no matter the outcome.

It is also not one that many can really... well, handle well. You'll see posts like "oh, I'd do hug/say this/et cetra to save Wilbur, not kill him," and I can say for certain no you would fucking not. Because unless you're professionally trained, you do not know what you'd do in the moment. This is not a situation where you can hug that person, say magical kind words, and everything will be okay. Suicidal people will lash out, fight back, scream, even hurt someone, because with skyrocketing emotions come fight or flight instincts. Hell, once you understand what the other person wants to do, your own mind spirals drastically. You panic. You stress out. You're walking on eggshells. One wrong move, and something drastic will happen that's beyond your control. These situations become emotionally charged, on both sides. Both people will come out of it traumatized in some way. No one is thinking straight here. No one should be put in this kind of situation fucking ever.

Yes, Wilbur was mentally fucked up. He was suicidal. It is bad that Philza assisted in his own son's suicide. What happened to Wilbur was awful, awful, awful. None of this should have happened. I am not denying any of this. But what happened still happened. Wilbur willingly put his father into a dangerous, tragic situation of killing his son. Philza found himself in a disturbing position. Philza caved into pressure, killing his son and destroying them both mentally.

Phil did not leave this scene unscathed, at least emotionally or mentally. We know about his wings, the wing he sacrificed to protect his son (only for that son to beg for death afterwards), damage done by Wilbur's explosions. Wilbur's actions directly harmed his father, even though this was not intended. But I'm more focused on the emotional and mental damage caused. Because for anyone who thinks he was not affected in that way on the 16th, then they... literally just do not watch cc!Phil's streams. In the diary note Phil left for Ghostbur, he talked about being torn apart, feeling cold and empty. He traveled for a long time, trying to find ways to fix what he broke, placing himself in self imposed exile for what he did. He carries his grief on his back, loathes himself, sees Ghostbur and even though he puts on a kind face for him, Phil just sees his mistakes sitting right there, playing music with a sheep.

Like those who Wilbur had harmed in his time in L'manberg, Philza did not come out of what happened unharmed in any way. In all ways, he was damaged and traumatized. The worst part about it is that no one cares, not even Philza.

Philza has not made himself a victim of what happened on the 16th. It's understandable to see how his actions outweigh all else. He allows what he did to brush off how he came out of that room. And he still completely, utterly loves his son. There's some mistrust there, the uncertainty of how much Wilbur has changed, but that love has not wavered. And it's incredible that despite everything, Philza does not want to think any less of his son. He wants to help Wilbur become a better person, even if he's not sure how.

But I think about Philza's broken wing. I think about the diary entry that is the most we ever openly see his suffering. I think about him willingly throwing himself into danger for the safety of his son, only seconds later for his son to ask for death by his hands. I think about Phil being convinced it was the best thing for Wilbur, only to realize that he was wrong, that the last thing his own son did was convince him into assisted suicide.

And I think about how he doesn't talk about this with anyone else (except for Techno; when it was revealed Phil talked about Wilbur with him). I think about this man who does not realize the damage done to him. I think about someone who just shrugs it off and focuses more on what L'manberg has done to everyone else, his son included ("When I was forced to kill my own son, you idiot!").

And how unfair is that?

This is why. This is why I find it so important that, yes, c!Philza should directly apologize for killing c!Wilbur. Philza hurt his son so badly, and Wilbur needs to understand that. But the reverse should be the exact same. I want Wilbur to say to his father that he is sorry that his explosions destroyed his wing, that he is sorry that he manipulated him into killing him. I want Phil to see reality fall into place, that he, too, had been fucked up on the 16th. Not just his wing, but in how it emotionally broke him. I want Phil to realize that his son isn't the same boy who left for L'manberg. He's someone new, still Wilbur, but someone different who had hurt his father and other people, but who also has begun to address that damage and wants to do better, so that will never happen again. I want Phil and Wilbur to open up to one another, address the strains of their relationship, and come out of it better people.

I want the audience to open their eyes, look at things from Philza's perspective, and see that Wilbur was not the only one hurting that day in that room, that he made one last victim of his actions before he died. And that doesn't make me hate him at all, no, I applaud how he's trying to do better and understand why everything happened. I adore Wilbur's character, I have just always felt that one of the people Wilbur has hurt isn't talked about enough, when it should be discussed. While it won't be the end of the world if they don't talk about it, it'd be very important to me if they did.

#philza #wilbur soot #c!wilbur #dsmp lore #zablr #mimi rambles

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n0phis · 2 years

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(this is copied from a thread i posted on twitter, hence the vernacular LMAO - a take on fandom discourse from someone who is probably an idiot for posting so be warned)

i try not to speak up about this because of how volatile all the threads involved in c! discourse seems to be but man

everyone likes characters in a narrative they created. there is so much content and so much going on in each viewer’s head that a unanimous interpretation or ‘true’ narrative just doesn’t exist. whether people watch animatics, the original streams, interact with fanart/writing or simply read the events- regardless of what ccs they watch- there is ALWAYS going to be a difference in interpretation that can vary from minute to massive! nobody can constantly consider everything a character has done. the info will fall out of your head, and you won’t realize it! you’ll fill it in with your own perspective! it happens to everyone and it is not a bad thing!

i genuinely worry about getting myself into pqrt territory saying this because this exact thing is my reason to just be and let be, but sometimes it’s ok to let people live with their narratives that contradict your own, regardless of whether one adheres more to ‘canon’ or cc stated information. i am biased towards c!wilbur, probably because i like the cc’s content so much, and i am content to think of dream as a true villain without much interest to look at his full story, and fill in the gaps with stuff that fits my view. that doesn’t mean i think c!dream apologists are bad people or that they condone the behaviour i see c!dream as having! they do the exact same thing i do, and if they want to consume dsmp content thru that lens i dont have any right to come up to them and tell them otherwise.

i’ve been posting for a week but lurking for a year, and ive seen a saddening amount of threads where people share takes and analysis that is meant to stay within their narrative circle (i.e c!wilbur/c!quackity/c!dream apologists or fans) and are attacked with ‘objective’ or subjective fact (objectivity barely exists here, it’s ok to reject canon) from people who are not the target of that analysis. let people talk about their narratives and how they perceive the story, it takes more energy to fight rather than let others be. block people, it’s easy! but coming into someone’s thread angry because their analysis doesn’t fit ‘canon’ is more a show of your character than a productive way of ‘guiding’ others, which is inherently unnecessary within a fandom as broad as this. bias is fine. ignoring parts of canon to create a narrative you prefer for the cc you like is fine!

i know that me saying this inherently contradicts with the belief that nobody should be a fandom authority, why listen to some random person .etc .etc, and i’m genuinely sorry if this upsets you or feels targeted because that was not my intent!

i haven’t even been on twt for a few days aha, honestly that was the catalyst for thinking about this. ive been censoring my own takes on characters because i *know* i have extreme bias and like to twist canon to fit narratives i like, but i am incredibly worried people will take that as me insinuating that is ‘fact’ rather than my personal experience and takeaway if i speak publicly about it. so hopefully having this up will give me something easy to qrt when and if i get into arguments?

peace to all of u, controversial character lovers and haters and everyone in between, go love ur funny block people, the only thing anyone should care about is whether you enjoy it :)

thanks for reading!

#tham talks #this is long as hell do i have to manually mark a long post oh no #idk how to use tumblr #dsmp #dsmp discussion #dsmp discourse #i am inviting hell into my house by adding tags #but i wanna start sharing my lore opinions so i may as well speedrun backlash

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dr3amofagame · 8 months

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Ok there are a lot of things I don't understand about Wilbur and Dream's interactions, but one of the main things that I don't quite get is the whole breaking into the prison and burning the disks with Tommy , like ok why was Wilbur so convinced that by threatening to kill himself he was gonna make Dream do what ever he wants ( burn the disks)

And well we can say that Dream was just agreeing to whatever the hell the wanted because he wanted them out of his living room ( and because he didn't need the disks) but like ,Wilbur didn't know that, what made him so sure that Dream wanted him alive especially after the prison break ( Dream didn't need his help anymore) to the point that he thought he could use it ( his life ) as leverage

Did Dream want to keep Wilbur alive, if so, then why? I don't know man, seems like the only person that would be losing in this situation is Wilbur himself.

I got more questions but like this is what confuses me the most. Idk just don't get it

Honestly I'm going to assume you know about these reddit posts, but while like I think that people should be able to draw their own conclusions to a text without strictly subscribing to what is said by the authors, like, cc!Dream and cc!Wilbur did give explanations behind what happened in this stream that I think are worth checking out: x x

A lot of people perceived cc!Wilbur's comment specifically as speaking for c!Dream in a way that was uninformed and therefore dismissed the post, which I think is...unwise? Like, cc!Wilbur literally says that he's posting from the perspective of his character's thought process, not an out of character word of god on what c!Dream actually values and believes. Further, he literally clarifies that his character isn't entirely correct and is an unreliable narrator.

But looking between the posts and looking at c!Dream's behavior, I mean. What we can say, rather definitively, that c!Wilbur was right about is that c!Dream didn't want to lose that feeling that he had leverage over c!Wilbur. Like, he's pretty damn desperate not to lose it, actually. c!Wilbur "believes that Dream has nothing if not himself"--a perspective that obviously leaves out c!Punz, considering c!Dream's secrecy in terms of this one particular ally, but is otherwise I mean. Like. Correct? cc!Dream emphasizes repeatedly that c!Dream doesn't want to lose "that feeling of control over Wilbur," that c!Dream's power over c!Wilbur is "just in his head," that he's holding onto it even though "it's seemingly gone after the exile reveal." The rest of the server's story only throws this in sharper relief--c!Wilbur literally fucking leaves the whole damn server and c!Dream is cowering in the prison worrying about him A MONTH LATER.

When c!Wilbur makes the assessment that c!Dream is going to hold onto the perceived leverage he has over c!Wilbur tightly, EVEN WHEN SAID LEVERAGE DOESN'T EXIST, to the point of doing almost everything c!Wilbur tells him to? He's 100% right. c!Dream doesn't want to break the illusion. When cc!Dream gives the two examples of what c!Dream wouldn't do, he mentions that c!Dream wouldn't "kill himself" or "give over the revive book," which, I mean. Is literally just saying the same thing twice. Which, again, just goes to show how far c!Dream is willing to go in order to keep holding onto a feeling of control, that--once again! Is emphasized by both ccs AND by the literal text (as we can see that c!Dream at no point is able to actually use the "leverage" he has over c!Wilbur from reviving him to do LITERALLY ANYTHING AT ALL) as not existing in any meaningful manner. This isn't a case of c!Wilbur having an inflated sense of self-importance or a case of him pushing his way into this conflict recklessly w/ a delusional belief that his pitch will work. This is a case of c!Wilbur (as is like, usually the case with him and c!Dream) reading c!Dream like an open book and getting exactly what he fucking wants by force, literally shouting down at c!Tommy and c!Dream until they both comply.

(And it's worth pointing out that like. This whole thing does have a visible toll on c!Dream. He's extra jumpy and defensive in the stream on the same day after Inconsolable Differences, says he went for a stroll outside the prison (something he basically Doesn't Do after he gets the prison back in Daedalus) explicitly to "keep his mind wandering," he bristles at the perception that he's being accused of a terrorist--the exact wording that c!Wilbur uses against him when he makes him write the book in the prison. c!Dream's behavior, while not yet pushed to the point where he starts lashing out in self-defense, was pretty obviously off as soon as c!Wilbur started making demands--he grows quieter, more still, visibly less comfortable--honestly, not at all unsimilar to certain behaviors that we saw in the prison arc.)

And I mean. At the end of the day. Why wouldn't c!Dream want some reason to believe that c!Wilbur would work with him? Why wouldn't he want some kind of leverage? The guy is pretty obviously worried about him, if not outright scared of him. He was ranking c!Wilbur with the likes of c!Sam and c!Quackity when he mentions him in the Finale, for god's sake. c!Wilbur was the person that first called him the tyrant that c!Dream ends up believing he has always been. c!Wilbur was the originator of L'manburg, which c!Dream blames for the literal loss of his home. c!Wilbur is like. Extremely charismatic, extremely good at convincing people that he's well-meaning, that what he's saying is right, that this-person-is-the-enemy and you-want-to-stand-for-freedom and that so-and-so is a cause worth dying for, isn't it. c!Dream was The-Man-That-L'manburg-Opposed from the minute that c!Wilbur decided so and this narrative would follow him literally for the rest of his life.

So yeah c!Dream wanted to keep c!Wilbur alive out of the delusional belief that doing so would mean he has leverage over him. Why he wants that leverage (even though he never uses it and the fact that it literally doesn't exist), I mean.

#my asks !!#c!dreamisms #like id say that if there's anywhere c!wilbur makes an error in judgement here #it's prooooobably in assuming that c!dream still has his eyes set on fucking with c!Tommy for the sake of his goals #because honestly i've always read the whole staged finale false ending of it all and giving him the discs as just.#kinda avoiding the kid that's made himself a constant thorn in his side over those two vinyls since forever #but then again maybe the main reason why we didn't see that much post-prison c!discduo #was because c!dream was literally just too busy holing himself up in the prison obviously unwell scrawling over the walls unintelligbly #but in assuming that c!dream will prioritize keeping him alive like. he was spot on. he was absolutely 100% accurate #dream would prioritize everything except like basically his own literal life to keep a feeling of control over wilbur #that was completely unbased in reality #the main question i had at the time was whether or not c!wilbur actually believed that c!Dream had that power over him or not #and after rereading the reddit post a few times and just looking at the end of the server i feel like. it's pretty fair to say #that like. he didn't. c!wilbur was kinda aware that c!Dream's feeling of power was just a feeling imo #and that these false concessions of agency to c!Dream were the most effective way to get him to do what c!Wilbur wanted #[stares at my vassal demons]#anyway

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