#gatsby meta

[vivitalks]

Last night I saw the Great Gatsby musical. Before I went, I reread the Great Gatsby book (for the first time since 11th grade!) to get a refresher on the source material and the original story. Having the book so fresh in my mind made seeing the musical really interesting, and now I am going to do something I never thought I'd do, which is post some lengthy meta about The Great Gatsby. If you haven't seen the musical, this post may still be interesting to read, but it does contain some mild spoilers, so I leave that up to you. If you also haven't read the book, godspeed lol.

There's a lot I could talk about here when it comes to the way the book was adapted for the stage. But there's one particular thing I want to zero in on in this post, and that's the "unreliable narrator" of it all.

In the book, Nick Carraway is our narrator. He's an unreliable narrator practically by default - the idea is that he's retelling events that occurred two years prior, from memory. But even knowing that Nick is probably not reporting all events and characters with complete accuracy, it's hard to know which parts exactly are wrong, or what might have happened in reality, because even though he's an unreliable narrator, he's still the only narrator and this is the only version of events we know. We're forced to take Nick as our surrogate and take him at his word. Until the musical.

(I wondered how the show was going to deal with the fact that the story of Great Gatsby is not only told by an unreliable narrator but also by an outside perspective - generally speaking the events of the Great Gatsby aren't happening to Nick, they're just kind of happening around him. Yet he's the voice of the story, so in that way he's central to it, and I was curious how they were going to balance that fact with the fact that Gatsby is functionally the main character.

I think they struck a really good balance in the end. Nick's beginning and ending lines, lifted verbatim from his book narration, frame him clearly as the anchor of the story - I think that's the best word for it; the audience jumps from scene to scene, many but not all of which contain Nick, but we know that Nick is always going to be where the action is, or that he will at least know about it. He may not be the main character, but he's an essential character. But I digress a little bit.)

The difference between the way the story is imparted to the audience in the book versus in the musical boils down to this: in the book, Nick "plays" every character, so all their dialogue and actions, their mannerisms and the way they're described and reported, it's all informed by the beliefs Nick holds about them. Whether he means to or not, his biases paint certain characters in certain lights, and because he is our eyes and ears to the story, we have no choice but to absorb those biases.

But in the musical, every character is literally played by a different actor. Nick can only speak for himself. Nick can only tell his own parts as they happened. He may be "telling" the story, but we're watching the story. We have the benefit of an unblemished perspective on things - we can watch the events the way they actually unfold, regardless of how Nick believes or remembers they went down.

This difference - between Nick as the narrator and Nick as merely his own voice - is crucial in how the musical develops each character, some of them fairly different from how Nick described them in the book. And there's one book-to-stage change - a fairly small one, all things considered - that, to me, illustrated this difference perfectly.

There's a line towards the end of the Gatsby book. Something Nick says in narration, after his final conversation with Tom Buchanan, talking about how Tom gave away Gatsby's name and location to George Wilson (which ultimately led to Gatsby's death). Nick writes:

"I couldn’t forgive him or like him, but I saw that what he had done was, to him, entirely justified. It was all very careless and confused. They were careless people, Tom and Daisy — they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made…"

When I read this line in the book, I couldn't help vehemently agreeing. Screw those rich assholes! Money does corrupt! Tom and Daisy ARE careless wealthy people! It was easy to side with Nick, not only because he was the only perspective on the situation that I had, but also because he said this in internal response to a conversation with Tom, who, I think we can all agree, is a major jackass and a deeply unsympathetic character.

But in the musical, this line is spoken aloud by Nick. And he says it to Daisy, in her house, as she's packing up to skip town after Gatsby's death. In fact, he doesn't just say it; he shouts it, visibly and audibly outraged at her audacity to lead Gatsby on, ghost him, skip his funeral, and then move away to avoid the fallout. Nick is angry and highly critical of Daisy. But because we're no longer confined to his shoes, we also get to see Daisy's reaction - not as Nick remembers it, but as Daisy actually reacts. And because of that, we're able to really see, and confirm, that "Daisy is rich and careless" is not the full story.

I have to credit Eva Noblezada for a phenomenal performance (duh). Daisy in this scene is emotional, grieving, and it's clear she has been trying to contain these feelings for the sake of her husband and her own sanity. She's remorseful, not that Gatsby is gone necessarily, but that she allowed herself to entertain the fantasy of running away with him, only for it to be torn from her. She is trying to make the best of her unavoidable reality. And then Nick tears her a new one, calling her careless, accusing her of destroying things and being too rich to care.

And as I watched that scene, I was no longer wholly on Nick's side. I understood that this situation was so much more complex than Nick's chastisement acknowledged. Sure, Daisy wasn't innocent, but she also wasn't the callous rich girl Nick made her out to be. She did love Gatsby. And she also had a whole life with Tom. She had a daughter. She was a woman in the 1920s! That's a kind of life sentence even wealth can't erase.

The way Daisy responded may not quite have landed with Nick (if we consider the kind of fun possibility that the musical is the events as they happened and the book is Nick retelling those events as he remembers them two years later, then clearly Nick's disdain for Daisy's actions overtook whatever sympathy he felt for her), but the musical gave Daisy the opportunity to appeal to us. The audience. Having this omniscient perspective of things allowed us to draw our own conclusions, and I found myself a lot more sympathetic towards Daisy when I could both see and hear how she responded to Nick's verbal castigation.

In the book, Nick is the narrator. In the musical, Nick is a narrator. But he's no longer the sole arbiter of the story. The audience got to make our own judgements on the events as we witnessed them. Every one of us was a Nick - beholden to our own biases, maybe, but at least not beholden to his.

#gatsby musical #the great gatsby #great gatsby musical #tgg #also this is a separate and much smaller point not worthy of its own post but: jordan baker bro. #she's a flat and fairly inconsequential character in the book #in the show she comes ALIVE not only is she a real person but she is a cool person with dimension #and she's a baddie and i love her #stuff #never thought id be writing a long tumblr post tagged with anything gatsby related but here we are! #broadway the things you make me do. jeremy jordan the man that you are #jeremy jordan #bold of me to tag that way but im going for it! hes in the show it counts #noah j ricketts #eva noblezada #damn guys this post kinda slaps #wait fuck i have to do one more tag #sighs deeply. #gatsby meta #great gatsby analysis

[neo--queen--serenity]

I can’t believe I only just now noticed this.

But when Francis is using his ability, which is named after the irl Fitzgerald’s novel The Great Gatsby, he glows GREEN.

The GREEN LIGHT was a central narrative tool used throughout The Great Gatsby novel. It was a huge deal to Gatsby, and was a consistent metaphor for his love for his romance interest, Daisy.

Fitzgerald, whose character in BSD is meant to directly mimic Gatsby, has a wife and child he would commit atrocities for. He believes what Gatsby believes: that only through money and power can he can live happily with the people he loves.

He embodies the Green Light and everything it stands for when he activates his ability, and that’s so fucking cool to me.

#bungou stray dogs #bsd #francis scott fitzgerald #francis fitzgerald #francis scott key fitzgerald #the green light #the great gatsby #the great fitzgerald #bsd season 2 #green is also the color of american money. but this SHADE of green?? the way it’s lit up like that??? #I CAN SEE THE GREEN LIGHT #I CAN SEE IT IN YOUR EYES #i may or may not have figured this out while listening to ‘over the love’ by florence + the machine on the great gatsby soundtrack #bsd meta #neo queen serenity’s posts #bungo stray dogs #bungou gay dogs #f scott fitzgerald #f. scott fitzgerald

[remus-poopin]

Question for the brit’sh folks: I was thinking about hogwart houses and their value systems and about how JK shows her bias towards these value systems. She holds Gryffindor values in very high regard but seems to look down on Slytherin. One of her biggest issues seems to be that of the ambition trait. Ambition is almost always portrayed as a negative quality to the point that those who aren’t even in Slytherin with this trait are treated quite poorly by the narrative (Percy you deserve better).

I’ll admit right now that I don’t truly understand the class system in the UK. (I’ve found myself asking “wait what jobs do the Malfoys and Blacks even have? Where is this money coming from” And then I have to remind myself that they’re old money aristocrats types). I’ve made attempts to get it but I’m still a bit perplexed. So as an American reader some things in the series completely went over my head and I’ve had to have them be pointed out for me to even notice them (thank you Snape meta writers!).

As an American reader it is a little strange that ambition is held in such contempt in this series. The whole thing about America is to try to do better than your parents did, to move up in life, to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and achieve that American dream! So when you start analyzing the series with that perspective it is a bit puzzling.

So I guess my questions are: Is JKR’s aversion to ambition a “her problem” or is this a general view that the British class structure encourages. Or to put it a different way, does British society look down upon upwards economic mobility? And if so what are other ways this is reflected in the series?

For a more general question: Is the idea of the American dream in contrast with traditional British values? If so, what do these culture clashes look like?

(Also I’m not asking if you personally as a British citizen have a problem with ambition but more trying to understand UK culture and society)

#this is giving sophomore English class #im expecting a 5 paragraph essay in MLA format on my desk by Tuesday or else we’re not watching great gatsby (2013) on Friday! #guys I’m sorry #someone let me know if I sound stupid #I’m trying! #I just feel like as an American it’s kinda hard to really understand british classism because it seems pretty different than the classism - #we have over here #hp meta #harry potter fandom #harry potter meta #hp #harry potter #gryffindor #slytherin #wizarding world #britain #british culture #uk #percy weasley #snapedom #pro snape #hogwarts houses

[angerofangels]

The Narrator was not an asshole at the start like he was kinda sweet. He hated his job, he hated the apathy which everyone else at the company had with regards to letting people die for capitalism. He practiced things in his head before speaking to people like his little comment about "single use friend". Narrator came up with that because he was bored and lonely so he had to keep himself occupied. Or when Marla noticed his words to her seemed practiced. He just spent a lot of time alone ok!

And then Tyler comes in and makes fun of him for it and he laughs it off like haha yeah that was stupid but already from the first (second in the book) meeting Tyler is being a shitty friend. The Narrator accepts it because he has poor self esteem and craves to be made into the likeness of something else by the first person to just listen to him.

The course of the story was supposed to be Narrator discovering the support groups, learning to express his pain healthily by crying and then meeting Marla and no longer being alone, eventually healing. Tyler ruined all of that by taking him down the path of catharsis via inflicting pain on others and isolating yourself. It wasn't Marla it was Tyler who ruined everything.

Something that kills me about fight club is that all my fave things from a period of time reflect me at that time and my mindstate. I remember being the Narrator I remember feeling disconnected and depressed and looking for catharsis. I remember the weird awkward person I became from spending so much time alone and I remember wishing for some charasmatic person to come along and change all that. God. He was desparate guys. Tyler took advantage of him because he was desparate.

#fight club #tyler durden #marla singer #its time again for me to rant abt my hyperfixation medias #really with this and gatsby both what kills me is not the symbolisms #its the characters personal and emotional journeys #fight club meta

[faintingheroine]

This whole wanting to recapture the past but being fundamentally unable to do so makes me think of Ibrahim as a Gatsby-like figure: Both with Nigar and with Hatice. After all his relationship with Hatice “the rich girl” is also about recapturing innocence when he finally returns to her (see the last screenshotted scene). It is about him recapturing maybe not his past in Parga but his wide-eyed past before becoming a Vizier.

In both cases the women end up signifying something for Ibrahim that doesn’t have that much to do with who they actually are. Hatice is not Şah, a symbol of unreachable elitism - on a psychological level Hatice is far more subject to Ibrahim than he is to her. Nigar is not a free-spirited Greek girl like Helena, she is a fellow cunning slave who is again subject to Ibrahim, she is almost more a symbol of his power as a Pasha than of his past.

But just like with Gatsby, this does not have to mean that Ibrahim didn’t love both Hatice and Nigar in his own way. He risked a lot to be with both of them, and he was passionate enough during his relationships with both of them. But he definitely has something in himself of those male protagonists of literary fiction who want to reach something beyond their current existence through women they love whom they make into symbols.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #ibrahim pasha #ibrahim paşa #nigar kalfa #hatice sultan #the great gatsby #nibrahim meta

[fellhellion]

Tbh Dana kind of reminds me of Daisy from the great gatsby, If that makes any sense?? I just get strong vibes of immaturity and not really understanding/not caring about the consequences of what she does from her at times.

okay i apologise in forward but you've reawakened my daisy enjoyer status from highschool fjdhsjkfhdskj i see the comparison and agree that there's some similarities especially when it comes to the waif like immaturity, but I have personally always read Daisy in actuality as someone who, for all that she sincerely grieves what she lost with Gatsby, knows that ultimately that despite any unhappiness with Tom, she was never going to abandon the place she's accepted.

To me that's always what her little line about her daughter ("I hope she'll be a fool—that's the best thing a girl can be in this world, a beautiful little fool.") was about. It doesn't matter how hard Daisy cries over Gatsby's shirts, how conflicted she feels, how much she still cares for him, ultimately she's accepted her place within the world and ultimately she wasn't ever going to abandon that.

There's a level of immaturity - as well as heartache - in never really communicating this to Gatsby (though considering he's wooing a visage of a woman long changed and with a version of himself that is itself constructed, who even knows how successful she would've been), but I interpret Daisy's choice as hinging upon the fact she intimately understood the ultimate consequence of her actions, of abandoning her husband.

Dana on the other hand seems utterly unable/unwilling to interogate the nature of her own actions for what they are. She sincerely seems to believe she dislikes active conflict, and this extends into lying to herself about just how far she goes to hurt Miguel over slights (hanging out with the guy that Miguel confided in her drugged him with an incurable addiction, purely because she's upset he hasn't been home enough). Dana seems to me more like someone who follows the whim of her own desires/impulses without consideration for the harm she stands to inflict upon on others. The way she speaks in the aftermath of cheating conversation to Gabriel is also just. bizarrely self-centered when it doesn't verge on martyrdom (I hate conflict, I just want people to be happy, hate me FOREVER if you need to but don't throw away your relationship with miguel).

#WOW i am sorry for great gatsby meta in all of this fksdjhfjkhsdjk i just genuinely still fucking love that book and loved it as a kid too #ask games #theres an entirely different problem writing wise where the writing just. doesnt bother to dig into how dana can go to/justify to herself #WILDLY opposing beliefs/stances and i don't think that is at all a problem for daisy. but thats more of a writing thing fkjhsjk and im #trying to evaluate them as characters here #i havent read gatsby in a HOT minute so if im misremembering/forgetting anything pls @ me haha #long post #augh. daisy wanting her daughter to be a little fool because she knows how much pain there is in accepting this place in the world #and wanting more anyways.

[thoughts-reasons]

practice makes permanent

#isn't that what most people do often though? fill in the blanks i mean #it seems cruel to ruin their fantasies #maybe that's why duolingo was there? WHAT 🤣 #✈️ because tears™️ 😒🍀 #that sounds familiar are you sure it's not the plot of yellowface? #thanks for sharing the post #meta or not irony is a poor substitute for wit #kermit loved the cenotes and the ruins next time we'll bring malbec haha 🥂 #didn't we say there would be a bootleg-ish live album imagine that 😅 #why do people keep asking for a rock album that's what i want to know #idk fighting history sounds exhausting and futile #singing the 1 isn't self-flagellation c'mon that's harsh🍷 #hello again 👋🏻 #knowing about the subject isn't enough #living through it is apparently also no longer enough so yeah wild™️ #objective truth is lurching towards oblivion #kermit said that sounded like a line from the prophet and the idiot #that's high praise 😊🍭 #dance fever forever! she and flo are the best i'm excited for gatsby 🐉 #kermit's mailbag the faces pressed against the window pane edition #originanon

[doctor-mccoys-sanity]

Daisy Buchanan is who Sheila Birling would’ve grown up to be if she followed her mothers wishes

#wise but they ignore it #she would play into her stupidity to avoid the real world #Gerald is Tom Buchanan #an inspector calls #the great gatsby #meta #Sheila birling #daisy buchanan

[peachrote]

there was definitely a conversation between nick and gatsby where gatsby mentioned that he met one of daisys other cousins before and that "she was a very pretty girl" and nick didnt have the heart to tell him that was him pre-transition

#APRICOT. meta #gatsby: you know natalie? whatever happened to her #nick: oh she ... Died

[droughtofapathy]

"Welcome to the Theatre": Diary of a Broadway Baby

The Great Gatsby

April 27, 2024 | Broadway | Broadway Theatre | Evening | Musical | Original | 2H 30M

All the sparkly costumes and grandiose set pieces can't disguise this show's intellectually and musically filthy core. With a creative team that seems to have missed the entire point of Fitzgerald's book, Bad Gatsby is a Vegas spectacle best suited to theme parks and audiences bereft of critical thought. I have no loyalty to the source material. As a lesbian, I didn't much care for the book and its protagonist who seems disinterested in women, and spent pages waxing poetry about the male physique. But even I know it's a classic brimming with intellectual nuance, while this production is anything but. The relationship between Gatsby and Nick is now only ever a passing acquaintance, rather than the very foundation. The show's aggressive heterosexuality sees Nick and Jordan (a forcibly-feminized, pick-me girlboss type) romping about as Gatsby and Daisy, somehow even duller than the book (and how was that ever possible?) sing power ballads at and about each other that say nothing, and move the plot even less.

This adaptation of the beloved classic novel gleefully excises any and all purpose. Nick's idolization and homoerotic love for Gatsby drives the book's narrative. Here, he's doing basically nothing. My kingdom for a dramaturg who seems to actually like and understand the book, rather than someone who just wants to capitalize on it being newly public-domain. Why, oh why, do people keep adapting classics they clearly do not like? I don't like Gatsby, so I'd never bother to write a musical adaptation of it.

And speaking of music, it's ill-suited to both the period and the story. Everything is all contemporary pop ballad, and as someone who doesn't care about or know much of Jeremy Jordan, it's not working. Perhaps it's my blatant lesbianism and pretentious disregard for the allure of youth, but he's never seemed overly remarkable. He's a white male tenor. There are fifteen-thousand who look and sound just like him. But from the constant shrieking up in the mezzanine, you'd have thought the Beatles had come back for a one-night-only reunion. Thankfully, in my front side-orchestra section, I was surrounded by older patrons who politely clapped and refrained from any such screaming. Also, Jeremy Jordan's accent is all over the place, and I can't imagine why.

The shallow production that sits in the (possibly cursed, at this point) Broadway Theatre, has been robbed of its social commentary, its purpose, its depth. The characters are caricatures, the subtext is spelled out on a chalkboard (A song entitled "The Green Light"???) and is in some fascinating way, a meta commentary in and of itself. A massive budget allows for not one, but two working cars to drive around on stage. The glitz and glam blinded the creatives to anything...creative.

And don't even get me started on the baffling decision to cast a Mexican-Asian woman as Daisy, the quintessential image of white privilege. What are we saying by having Eva Noblezada in that role? It's such a thankless role that it's not like her talents are being utilized. And her character is so weak and dull, even more so than the book itself. And she's out here doing a hit-and-run, and yet we're just gonna...gloss right over that, I guess? And Nick's disgusted by Jordan saying they shouldn't tell the police what they know, but then immediately goes to plead with Gatsby to get out of town? Having done no work in the show to justify this loyalty, it's just inconsistency.

Also, and now I'm just jumping around to things I didn't like, the scene where Gatsby gets shot is staged so that Wilson is pointing and shooting that gun right at the front right orchestra section. And staring down the barrel of a gun is not what I want to be doing on a Saturday evening at 10:30 p.m. He shoots that thing twice while pointed at the audience, and no thanks.

Anyway, the Florence Welch Gatsby is at the ART now, so let's hope that one actually understands the damn book.

Verdict: Someone Put This Dumpster Fire Out

A Note on Ratings

#the great gatsby #broadway #welcome to the theatre: diary of a broadway baby #musical theatre #theatre #i'm so tired of bad musicals i just need to see kimberly akimbo today and have my faith restored #and my heart broken...final performance

[utilitycaster]

(Long ask warning)

Hello! I'm jumping on the appreciation train to say thank you so much for all of your meta and analysis! I just found your blog today, and you've already given me so much clarity and context for things I've been noticing in the CR fandom lately.

I quite literally spent my summer living under a rock (in the woods leading spelunking for scouts!) and so was completely out of the loop from early June through September. And while I am not yet caught up (I'm about to start ep. 65), I have been going through the tags and ao3, because I primarily engage with fandom through fic and I don't care about spoilers. And I can't help but notice that everything being written for c3 lately is just... monochromatic. The Hells have such interesting characters and premises. One would think they're ripe for creative and interesting fic. And yet even what little gen fic that I have seen since returning to civilization has largely been boiled down to reiterative mush with vaguely shippy overtones. I can totally see this being indicative of the cresting and waning of the Imodna and Callowmore shipping you've been discussing.

I've gotta ask though, is it really just shipping that is causing this problem? Or is there something else in the source material that you think could be affecting fic in particular?

This is the first time I've been in a fandom with ongoing source material in over a decade. I'm used to watching people beat dead horses in their own little corner, safe in the knowledge that I can block them and it isn't going to affect my experience in the slightest. I guess I'm just having a hard time believing/remembering that shipping can be this incidious.

So a couple of things: first, I was not heavily involved in fandom until Critical Role; I have a decent amount of background knowledge from being on Tumblr and because I do tend to look into/research this kind of thing because it's very interesting to me, but you will probably have better snapshot of what fandom looked like 10 years ago than I do. Second, fanfic has always been a tiny aspect of what I've engaged with and I do find the bulk of it to be dull and samey (which is why it is a tiny aspect), so again, you probably are a better judge of the quality of fanfic elsewhere.

With that said, as part of a much larger discussion of which I only have as mentioned pieces of the puzzle, I do think there's been a shift over the past decade or so of like...people expecting the source material to reflect fanfic-y desires, and resenting it when it does not; people not seeing the point in enjoying non-canon ships; and a broader theme of self-infantilization. This has to a small extent spilled over into published fiction, though thankfully there's plenty that isn't that. It's not just shipping (though that absolutely can be insidious to the point that people have been harassed and doxxed over it); I think it's a general taste for pablum that has been growing within fandom spaces.

I'll link a few posts I've made and a source that, while I cannot vouch for it per se I did read and found enlightening at the end but I think a really indicative example as of late was the fandom response to the show Good Omens (spoilers for Good Omens S2 in the next link if you are by any chance avoiding those). Obviously do not do anything obnoxious to the person who wrote this question, but there are a worrying number of people in fandom spaces who believe this unironically and uncritically: fiction exists to "save us from hurtful reality." And I do understand that the tumultuous politics and world events of the past decade are probably a factor; but I mean, have you looked at literature from the first half of the 20th century (or like. the second half, for that matter)? It is, in my opinion, only going to help put our modern world and issues in better context and honestly make you feel better in the long run if you read, say, The Great Gatsby or The Things They Carried instead of burying your head in lower case song lyrics ... (hurt/comfort, fix-it, happy ending, 6k) and like, to be clear, I have written a small portion of lower case song lyric-titled fics myself but most of them aren't terribly happy, and even so, god I'd be horrified if that was all people were reading.

We've seen it across fandom at large with the polls; I have not watched season 2 of Our Flag Means Death in part because I've realized with horror that this mentality has swept, plague-like, through that fandom; people are acting like having a canon queer ship on a small premium cable show in 2022 is world-changing and unprecedented while also kind of ignoring everything that isn't the central ship (including valid criticisms of how this takes a real-world plantation owner and turns him into a goofy fop, how there's precious few female characters and none in the main cast, and how the actually far more groundbreaking nb character is pushed aside in favor of the core M/M ship). Spoilers for Good Omens again (sorry in advance, Good Omens 2 was a realization point for me how deeply and widely this rot has set in in some places and I have a bunch of sources of people being like "guys stories require conflict and tension to be good" in response to the overwrought moaning that the story wasn't unambiguously happy) but this is another author responding to the "the desired endpoint of all fiction is obviously to have your ship living in a small house together in bliss and anything else is torment" mentality.

In addition to shipping another factor is, I think, people overidentifying with characters and as such being reluctant to actually put them through any sort of hardship, however minor. I recently reblogged a post about the origin of the concept "Mary Sue" and it led me to read a bit about its history, because it was in fact created by women. It was a woman in the Star Trek fandom who was sick of spending money to buy fanzines (pre-common home internet, let alone pre-Ao3) only to find the vast majority of the stories to be this "here is my self-insert who is perfect and beautiful and pure and every other character thinks she is the greatest even if that's entire OOC". It was a frustration with the abandonment of the characterizations in the original work. And that's true today - I have read a popular Imogen and Laudna fluff fic to see what the deal was and it stripped out so much of their premises and characterizations it was unrecognizeable as them but for the hair colors and occasional cringeworthy attempts to replicate Southern US dialect - but what was notable is that those people were at least being honest and writing OCs (though to be fair a lot of them were also young white teen girls and the only woman in TOS was black and that was probably also a factor). Now, you get people who cannot tolerate any analysis of characters that is less than flattering because instead of having an OC, they are identifying so strongly with, for example, Imogen or Ashton, that they cannot separate out the real character or understand this is not an attack on them (or, to be blunt, as someone who sees some of my own worse traits in both those characters, a necessary critique). It's not shipping, but it is that same "fiction should only ever be a soft blanket or a flattering mirror, never a dark mirror and certainly never a door" mentality.

I do place a little blame on fanfiction itself; I think having something that is roughly made to order and tells you exactly what it is up front means people start to think that is the only way, and that's why we have people claiming Chipotle is the height of cuisine while making gagging noises at the authentic Mexican restaurant except for fiction. I think fanfiction can be great; it's fun to write and I have read some great pieces. But a lot of it is mush and formulaic and as that Mary Sue history points out, always has been.

So anyway, to Bells Hells: I think past campaigns also had a lot of dull fanfiction; I think the Nein lent themselves more to poorly written angst than poorly written fluff but yeah a lot of that was really samey and bland in its own way. Fanfiction has always been formulaic to a degree but I think we're starting to see the generation of people who really have read more of that than like, books, and sure there are shitty books, but man there's a LOT of shitty fanfiction, and increasingly, I find that shitty published books are bad because they're too much like fanfiction. [If I get the chance today I have a post I want to write about the ignorance of fantasy tropes in the current fandom which I think is also driving some of this and which I alluded to in my post about shipping; like, I feel the almost automatic but oddly thought-free resistance to gods and fate and the 'right' way to respond to a tragic backstory comes from this ignorance; this also is a case in the D20 fandom when they've dipped into sci fi.] Shipping definitely is a factor, and I think again C3 has an influx of fans primarily here to ship in that "my ship must become canon and must 'win' for some arbitrary definition thereof" which is probably why so much of the fanfic sucks, but again, this is a larger self-infantilizing and entitled mentality that goes beyond mere ships.

Further reading (mostly my own posts but not exclusively)

The fandom echo chamber (also Good Omens spoilers in a broad sense), not by me

Some discussion on queerphobia being inserted only as a tool to assist with specific shipping narratives (I think this ties in again to like. people need obstacles to justify why the characters aren't already in their cottage by the sea but once the characters are together they discard these obstacles even if they are systemic and would still exist, which makes for really bad fanfic bc it's clearly poorly plotted and thought out)

Me on why this campaign isn't good for shipping but a lot of the fandom showed up primarily to ship (might be the post that prompted this ask tbf)

Fandom monocropping (not my post)

My treatise on Imogen and Laudna specifically which honestly, even now that they are canon, still largely holds up re: the fandom and a related one about similarly fluff-centric Change is Evil and the highest order of fiction is Two Blorbos In A House With Zero Problems mentality (not by me but I've been part of that discussion)

#answered #Anonymous #long post

[man-down-in-hatchet-town]

Karma Police

IT'S THE MID-SEASON FINALE BEFORE THE HIATUS! As always, spoilers for The Case of the Greater Gatsby episode 14 under the cut!

So, after the information onslaught that was the previous two episodes, "Karma Police" was a little bit of a breather—at least up until the end. Just lots of cannibalism jokes and character moments as both Ford and Fig start to show the strain of the case in their own ways (Ford’s increasingly surfacing anger, Fig’s anxiety and fainting spell). Which means that you guys get a relatively shorter essay after the absolute monster I posted earlier.

To start with, Fig’s line about the stress of working multiple jobs and how they keep you from keeping up with life events? Too real. Really, Fig’s whole unraveling physical and mental state throughout the entirety of this episode was the perfect encapsulation of my experiences over the last couple of months.

Meanwhile, either TD is way smarter and more conniving than we’re giving him credit for (possible; after all we have yet to receive confirmation of his admittedly convincing alibi) or he is innocent. His issues with blood certainly don’t remove him from the suspect list, but if he had known that Fitzgerald didn’t bleed a drop he probably wouldn’t have passed out thinking about it. But then that brings us back to the question of Mo and just who he’s reporting to. If Mo was on the lot telling Mel about Fitzgerald’s death, wouldn’t her husband/assistant know the details? Or did she kick him out? Regardless, I continue to be fascinated by the Hammermeister marriage. I have so many questions I don’t think I actually want the answers to; you know those two have either never taken so much as a sock off in front of each other or else are the kinkiest bastards you could ever possibly meet.

On the Ford side of things, what fun to get Dylan again so soon! But Shipwrecked better not think I didn’t clock Donald not telling Ford where he was on the night of the party. I’m pretty confidant that Donald did not commit the murder—on a meta level he’d just be a strange choice—but his obfuscation and successful derailing of Ford is suspicious, though that might not have even been intentional. After all, he didn’t know that Vivian was about to show up.

Speaking of Vivian, the PHIGHTINGALE OF IT ALL! Ford’s anger at her lies feels deeper and more personal—you can just taste how strongly he resents their inescapable attraction and connection. And Vivian continues to walk all over him. Her story makes good enough sense, I guess, but I’m still not sure she’s telling the truth, as it’s a little too early in the story to conclusively point the finger at Barnaby. Though I suppose he could have shown up without actually being the murderer…. Meanwhile, after a whole episode of being grilled over his use of the word “grill,” Ford learns that Vivian uses it too, and judging by her tone has met many of the same reactions as her favorite employee. I love everything about their toxic, magnetic, inescapable dynamic. It’s noir perfection. Or, as @its-short-for-jackalope put it, “I think Ford & Vivian are actually soulmates 😂.”

Which sucks for Ford, because Viv’s pulled a fast-one over on Bixby! Whatever his other designs with Mel or Fitzgerald’s murder are, this plot against Bixby seems to a major card up Mo’s sleeve. But while I can see why taking over Bixby’s would benefit Mo, but what does Vivian get out of it? Higher pay? Let’s not forget that Mo made up her alibi on the spot for the night that Fitzgerald was killed. Was he protecting her as part of his takeover? Or is blackmailing her with knowledge of the night Fitzgerald died as part of his coup? I have so many questions about these two and why Vivian’s chosen to tango with this cop in particular.

And a moment of applause for Matthew Mercer’s evil laugh at the end of the episode! What a way to go out. Matt is absolutely incredible in everything he does and Greater Gatsby is no exception. I’m so happy that MK’s brought him into the fold.

Well, that’s it for the time being! I hope Fig and Ford come back soon (have they announced how long the hiatus will be?) but in the meantime I will be re-listening and you can bet your ass I will blog any new revelations that come to mind.

This is man-down-in-hatchet-town, reporting from Tinsel Town, signing off (from these responses, not from the blog).

#shipwrecked comedy #the case of the greater gatsby #fig and ford #ford phillips #fig wineshine #vivian nightingale #bixby crane #mo beats #td hammermeister

[dickcheneyshousepet]

coach ukai occupies such an interesting narrative position in haikyuu. he’s a lot like what nick carraway is to the great gatsby. he’s not the main character by any stretch. the events of his life are not the substance of the show. still, he is our window into the narrative. the matches are accompanied by his commentary and his narration. he is what bridges the gap between the narrative and the meta-narrative. he starts out as an onlooker but ends up getting dragged into the thick of the story until he’s too emotionally invested to leave. he’s a reader he’s a narrator he’s a character he’s everything to me

#he is the character furudate sees themself the most in!!!! #maybe this is why he’s always shown reading manga #he’s someone who looks at life in terms of stories and plots and narratives #even if he’s not a literature teacher like takeda #volleyball is a collection of a million different stories #and he can’t help but love stories #seeing them and telling them and being in them #idk if any if this makes sense #but i have a feeling here #haikyuu #coach ukai #ukai keishin

[neversetyoufree]

Miscellaneous Meta

(Back to the Masterpost)

The volume 3 cover

Why I kinda like the horny scenes

How we see events that Noé didn’t

Vnc is relationship-driven like Hannibal

The arbitrary distribution of power

Vanitas paintings and significance

Luna’s “Vanitas” title

Dante’s nickname for Noé

The “salvation” of Catherine

Misha Apologia

Is fear of the Blue Moon innate?

The Dhampirs' Names

Louis’s name

Veronica’s relationship with Domi

What if Noé drinks Jeanne’s blood?

Vnc and the female gaze

Luna’s Self-Destructive Vengeance

VnC’s Metaphysics

Is Jean-Jacques a cannibal?

Who’s the bat guy?

VnC and Physical Desire

The Sexual Horror of Vampires

Jeanne’s Parents’ Execution

The Timeline of VaniJeanne

Why all the Romance Talk?

VnC FMA Parallels

Ship Discourse? (No.)

Death in VnC vs Tai Sui

VaNoé as The Great Gatsby

Vanitas vs Luo Binghe

Olivier and "Vampire Friends"

The Allusions of Doctor Moreau

Ruthven, The Vampyre, and Byron

Does Ruthven Hate Vanitas?

The Benefit of Roland's Poverty

Do Marks Transfer Power?

Could Murr Choose Noé?

Mikhail and Mischa Lecter

VnC and Classic Vampire Lit

Humans, Blood, and Sexual Violence

VnC and Banana Fish

Why Jeanne's Parents Were Killed

Machina's House of Cards

Is Francis Really an Archiviste?

#organization #long post

[fortuna9]

EXPLAINING MY 2010S DR MORE!

☆ Nicknames I have: Barbie, Bunny, Ellie, Ali

☆ Most popular songs: Cruel Summer, DDU-DU DDU-DU, Run away with me, Genie, Something like a party, Shooting Star, b2b heartbeat, Vroom Vroom, Tattoo, Boom Clap etc

☆ I'm the face of Thierry Mugler

☆ Other endorsements: Mattel, Sanrio, Sailor Moon, Nintendo, Toidoki, Dolls Kill, Versace, H&M, Jeremy Scott for Moschino, Blumarine

☆ I have a reality tv show that runs from 2010-2016 (so ages 15-21) (I also scripted that it won't be too hectic so I can have decent teenage years)

☆ I also am THAT girl, the it-girl to end all it-girls it's so serious

☆ There will be a Barbie doll line made inspired by me, and I will also have a cameo in the Barbie movie dressed as one of those dolls (the meta of it all)

☆ I also have cameos in movies I'm on the soundtrack for (Catching Fire, Dork Diaries, Percy Jackson and The Titan's Curse, The Great Gatsby, Barbie etc.)

☆ I also scripted that the Percy Jackson movies weren't dookie and that Dork Diaries got 3 films.

☆ I want to live that Nikki Maxwell lifestyle, so I also go to North Hampton Hills (on scholarship), I won Valentine's Sweetheart, I won an Ice Skating competition, I ran my school's newspaper's advice column, I write in my diary a lot.

☆ My rise to stardom came from my win on a talent show in 2009/2010 (the timeline here is a bit wonky)

☆ Songs I covered: Together again, Halo, Love Story, Just Dance, Umbrella, Fantasy, Loverboy

☆ Original songs I performed: Message in a bottle, Enchanted, I AM, Teenage Dream

☆ I stole Barbie's entire house from Life in the Dreamhouse zxncaskl I just scripted that no-one questions my endless closet (Elektra Crystal...yeah of course we don't know when her closet ends...makes sense)

☆ I scripted 6 albums so far (7 if you include the songs from the talents show). I scripted a trilogy (2010-2014), UTOPIA (2019), and The Phantom Pulse duology (2022). I'll post about them soon!

☆ I have two singles (Really Bad Boy released in 2016 and DDU-DU DDU-DU released in 2017). I also have a few songs I did for ads specifically (Peek-a-boo for a Halloween themed pizza commercial, Speed Drive for a Barbie ad and ICONIC for a Nike ad)

☆ I also did the soundtrack for a Nintendo game I scripted in (Odyssey), released in 2021.

☆ I'm considered the best performer of my generation.

☆ I had a mega tour from 2015-2017, bigger than the Eras tour. It was a cultural phenomenom, and the demand lead to the tour being extended.

☆ I also scripted that I know everyone's secrets cause I don't want anyone playing with me I will END your career.

☆ Still questioning if I should script young coriolanus in...I could write style about him...save me blonde tom blyth...save me..

Anyways that's all for today, that's for tuning in, you're shifting today, hope you know ♡

#fame dr #shiftblr #2010s fame dr #shifting #shifting antis dni #desired reality #reality shifting

[littlehollyleaf]

OK, these are the books Gabriel-Jim is shelving in S02E02 The Clue. How much can we over-analyse them?

I'll start - Let's go!

Spoilers for various of the titles below

Yes, I COULD look up info on the ones I haven't read / don't know - but isn't that what fandom is for? I'm outsourcing, ok??

CROW ROAD - I haven't read and know nothing, sorry, but I suspect this is mostly included because Iain Banks is Neil's friend

THE CURIOUS INCIDENT OF THE DOG AT THE NIGHT-TIME - it's been years since I read this one, but I know it involves a kid attempting/pretending to be a detective to solve the murder of his dog, hinting at Aziraphale's upcoming act as investigative reporter maybe? PLUS I remember it turns out to be the boy's FATHER that killed the dog, yeah? Perhaps hinting at the not so kind/good nature of God, being Our Father in Heaven and all that

CATCH-22 - war story, reflecting the ongoing war between Heaven and Hell? famous for establishing the term 'catch-22' which refers to an impossible situation that cannot be escaped/surmounted due to paradoxical rules ie. the main character wants to stop fighting in the war - he will be allowed to stop only if he is considered insane - to want to stop fighting is considered evidence of sanity so he is never believed to be insane. A more mundane example would be - you can't get a job without experience, but you can't get experience without a job. Reflecting Crowley and Aziraphale's situation with Heaven and Hell? They want to leave Heaven/Hell to escape the threat and toxic influence of each - leaving Heaven/Hell puts them under threat of and living a life forever toxically influenced by both

LOVE IN THE TIME OF CHOLERA - haven't read, could just be that the author's name is a nod to Gabriel's? :P a love story in a time of plague could be a reference to the Edinburgh flashback, or even to the little Crowley and Aziraphale story Neil, David and Michael put out during Lockdown?

1984 - Heaven is Big Brother

THE BIG SLEEP - aah, I've seen the film, but can't remember it, but if I know the Noir genre it'll involve some kind of twist where a seemingly good guy/gal turns out to be a villain, who may have been manipulating our hero all along, so - hint at the Metatron's machinations?

THE BIBLE - this one's pretty self-explanatory :P

THE GREAT GATSBY - so sorry, I've never read this one either...

CATCHER IN THE RYE - as above

HERZOG - this one I don't even know

Pls add extra meta fandom - I'm sure there's a goldmine of stuff here!

#good omens 2 #good omens meta #i like to over-analyse #heaven is a dystopia #good omens metatron #good omens cinematic storytelling