#anti destiel going ‘canon’ again | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

cam-ulu29 · 1 year

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at this point all the winchesters CAN do to save itself is make a ship canon and I, for one, would love to see the tumblr riots over a RANDOM ship going canon in TW. Like Sam-isn’t-with-Dean-because-he’s-off-screwing-the-trickster-or-younger-Rowena-or-both kind of random. Now that would be some peak comedy.

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victimsofyaoipoll · 7 months

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Round 4

Gwen

She stands in the way of Merthur, by far the most popular ship in the fandom. I haven’t seen it as much in recent years, but back in the days of fanfiction.net she got slut shamed so badly for having been romantically interested in three of the male characters over the course of the show, which is just... normal straight woman behavior, meanwhile Merlin crushed on pretty much every woman who even looked at him in the early seasons of the show and got no hate for that whatsoever. I barely even read Merthur fics (not because it’s m/m, just because certain aspects of their relationship don’t appeal to me) but the “Gwen is a slut” attitude was so pervasive across the fandom, even fics that weren’t explicitly anti-Gwen would “jokingly” call her a slut. I even saw a few fics demonizing her for having an affair with Lancelot despite the fact that SHE WAS ENCHANTED when that happened, and surprise surprise, Lancelot (who was also under the influence of magic) got none of that hate, and neither did Arthur, who got enchanted to fall in love with multiple women over the course of the show.

Canonically Arthur Pendragon's love interest and an important and interesting character in the show who's completely shoved aside and ignored in favour of the medieval bbc yaoi ship. At best they put her and Morgana in Lesbian Timeout (ie make them get together and then reduce them to wingwomen at best because god forbid we focus on the medieval bbc yuri). Justice for Gwen right now!

She is prince Arthur's love interest (eventually wife). Arthur is MADLY in love with her. He tells his tyrannical father he would give up his crown to be with her (she's a servant in the series). He forgives her cheating on him with Lancelot (!), which in the show is caused by an evil enchantment, but the characters never find out about it. He chooses her time and time again. His love for Gwen is literally never put into question. Many fans insist to this day that there was no chemistry between Gwen and Arthur compared to Arthur and Merlin. Arthur isn’t even particularly nice to Merlin most of the time! The funny thing is that Merlin himself ships these two so hard and does everything he can to help them get together!! Gwen & Arthur are adorable and too many fans were drunk on the yaoi fumes to see it. ARTHUR WAS A SIMP FOR GWEN

Every Supernatural Woman

Supernatural is so mean to women and committed to queerbaiting but it still gives Sam and Dean lovers to kill. The writers kill and villainize them and the fans get the few that remain

wincest and destiel shippers cannot handle the idea of their blorbos having a Woman THREATENING their SHIPS god FORBID

It literally used to be a running joke that if a female character got introduced you knew she was going to die soon because fans would react so negatively to her "stealing" one of the boys away from the big ship, whether it be destiel or wincest

#round 4 #poll #bbc gwen #gwen merlin #bbc merlin #supernatural

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ladykailitha · 4 months

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Look, considering I've only gotten involved in Stranger Things after season four and therefore haven't been around the fans during other new season filming starts, but my brothers/sisters/nb in fandom what the honest fuck is going on right now?

I have been a part of other fandoms when new seasons started filming and the worst I'd seen was BBC Sherlock. And you lot are behaving worst then they did.

And Jesus fuck, that's a fucking low ass bar.

(Again I am ship and let ship, kinktomato, and headcanon free for all)

But this is just what I've seen in my small deliberately secluded corner of the internet so forgive me if I get some things wrong.

Ronance fans have turned on Steddie fans.

Steddie fans are trying to eat each other over who tops and who bottoms between two horny, barely out of their teens, men.

Eddie is confirmed dead.

Dustin is trying to become Eddie.

People want Will dead because Noah Schnapps said some stupid shit regarding genocide.

And Argyle isn't coming back.

I'm going to give you my feelings on these so buckle up lets go:

1- Steddie and Ronance fans have turned on each other. And I know this because I doom scroll through steddie tag. That Ronance fans think Steddie fans are delusional and that they're going down after season five airs and there will be more Ronance fans because they're perfect for each other.

Where to even begin on this? First, never tell a shipper that their ship is never going to be canon because they don't care. Just ask all the Destiel, johnlock, and merarthur fans. Steddie fans are just going to ignore all but the most salient parts of season 5 if Eddie doesn't come back and write AUs for the rest of their lives. You know, like they have since the last scene on the Piggyback faded to black?

Secondly, I don't think I've seen much Ronance without Steddie. Granted I only read Steddie, but it seems that the two ships are tied pretty heavily together. The fruity four comes to mind. So maybe it's that they're getting tired of being a side ship next to a massive one like Steddie. Who knows. But apparently they're bitter.

And I say that because they keep tagging their anti-Steddie posts as Steddie to make sure we see it. Honestly, I just block them and go about my day. But seriously, I've never understood people's need to be shitty like posting hate on the tag for that thing. If you don't like it, fine. Block and move on.

Thirdly. Lastly. Maybe. I don't like Ronance. I saw the charms when I first joined the fandom and it was cute. Until the more I read and I realized that most of the time they don't bring up that Jonathan is even a person let alone Nancy's current boyfriend. That most of the time Steve is written wildly out of character about not caring that they're a couple and that he just wants them to be happy. Like, one Jonathan is severely under used in the fics I've read. Like Will doesn't have an older brother anymore. It's all Steve or Eddie. Which considering how you like your flavor of queer for Eddie or Steve (gay/pan/bisexual) Will talking to them about being gay makes sense, but Jonathan showed us in the last season that he is going to protect Will no matter what. Then blip! in fanfics, he's gone.

And then the whole Steve being okay with Robin not only dating an ex-girlfriend of his, but the ex. The one he thought he was going to marry. The one he dreamed a whole fucking future on. That was still hurt by two fucking years later. You either think very lowly of Steve or you just don't care. Because if you think Robin and Steve are the same person/share the same braincell/ride or die for life, there is no way even if Nancy threw herself at Robin would she even consider it. (I can write a whole ass post just on this by the way, don't get me started.)

2- This is the most recent bullshittery due to a current event about Sub Eddie. This is the worst discourse in any fandom and the worst offenders on either side tend say the most homophobic shit imaginable.

And it's pointless. Whether you think Steve is a top or bottom, whether you think he's dom or a sub. Same with Eddie. Everyone has their own flavor they prefer and they won't always match up with yours.

Personally I write them whatever feels natural for the story. But here's the major crux of the matter. I don't believe a little nerd in Bumfuck, Indiana has any idea what flagging is. I'm sorry. Left pocket, right pocket. Doesn't matter. The likely of him even knowing what BDSM is is pretty slim. I grew up in a small town. There will be some people that know, but that's because they know adults in the scene.

Don't like, don't read. Seriously, guys. Let people enjoy what they want to.

My personal feelings on the matter is that Steve is a bottom/sub because he deserves to be taken care of and Eddie would absolutely want to be that person for Steve, in and out of the bedroom. Again, you do you, beau.

3- The tombstone. Sigh. It was hard to see that. Not just because it confirms he's dead, but because it's been defaced. Most likely like fans have said, "BURN IN HELL" the poor bastard.

Having a tombstone doesn't necessarily preclude Eddie's return. There are several ways he can still comeback Kas! theory not withstanding. But the wank here is people jumping on Steddie shippers and Eddie fans in general pointing and screaming "see!"

Like we didn't have campaigns for Barb and Bob and (Billy). If someone's favorite character has died, don't be dicks when they want them to be resurrected a la Jim Hopper. Because that right there is the main reason people will still hold out hope until the final scene fades to black, okay?

I guess this one is just be nicer to each other, okay?

4- *sob* like holy fuck. Dustin you sweetheart. The long hair, the torn Hellfire t-shirt, the rings. The horns and sticking out his tongue. That poor boy needs several hugs STAT! And of course, people can't leave well enough alone on Facebook, I couldn't tell you how many of the comments were "steddie fans are going to make this all about them, aren't they?" Even though there wasn't a single comment by a Steddie making it about Steve/Eddie. But so many eye rolls. The other half were death threats against Noah Schnapp.

Which brings me to...

5- Noah Schnapp said some really shitty things about Zionism and the attack on Gaza. There is no escaping that. He said them. He double downed on them. And while yes it sucks he said those things, let's not forget he's still young and stupid. He's barely 18/19 years old. I remember being that age and saying stupid fucked up shit, and hoo boy does this make me grateful I was well into adulthood when the internet became a thing (24ish).

There are a lot of reasons to be upset by his comments and I get that. But death threats and calls for his dismissal/boycotts just seems excessive to me.

One, because the story began with a kidnapped little boy and a runaway little girl. If you get rid of one of them especially this close to the end it would fuck up the story. Now if there was more than one season left, sure. But this is literally the end. And for all we know, Will's character may already be doomed by the narrative. So calling for it now isn't go to do anything. Especially since they already had all the scripts written and would have finished filming if it hadn't been for the strikes.

Two, one person on the cast said something stupid and hurtful and you want to boycott the entire show for it? Like, what did David Harbor, Joe Keery, Maya Hawke, Millie Bobby Brown and all the others do to deserve you boycotting their show? If the last season tanks it could seriously hurt their careers, but hey Noah Schnapp said something bad, so fuck them?

I'm going to stop there, because this is another one I can go on and on about, but yeah. Don't hurt other people in your rush to vilify an 18 year old.

6- Eduardo Franco recently said that he didn't get a call so he didn't think he would be back. He was sure that ship had sailed.

Fans are upset, naturally. Argyle was a sweetheart and deserves better than to be cut from the story like that.

But thanks to the incident with David Harbor and Jim Hopper supposedly being dead, a lot of fans are saying he's only saying that because it's a "secret" he's coming back. Which would make sense for Eddie or any of the other character died. Martin Brenner, for example, but not Argyle. There would be no need for subterfuge. Plus, he would already be out in Georgia if he was coming back.

It's sad that he was done dirty this way, but if they split up the filming like they've done before there is still a chance he might get to come back, but as far as the current filming is concerned, yeah Argyle isn't coming back.

***

Just... be kind to each other. Remember that the other people on the end of the URL is an actual person with feelings. That people can like what they like so if they aren't hurting you, don't hurt them, okay?

#my writing #stranger things #ladykailitha rants #tw wank #fandom wank #season 5

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dotthings · 11 days

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A reminder that it’s not Destiel lane behavior for why antis dislike the destiel lane. For over a decade I’ve seen them virtue signal and lie and again and again prove it was never about behavior (especially given their own bad behavior). What they really hate deep down the most is Destiel shippers existing, Destiel shipper joy, Destiel shippers analyzing the canon, Destiel shippers being seen and heard, Destiel shippers having thoughts, Destiel shippers at conventions, Destiel shippers who don’t keep themselves folded quietly and demurely out of sight out of mind and bow down and deny our own eyes and media literacy and the actual canon and the work of the creatives at spn while we go “it’s only fanfic” the way the antis demand— antis have also ranted about too much destiel fanfic so even that shaming is a lie. What they hate most is destiel shippers existing in the fandom at all. Tainting spn. The very touch of us corrupts.

#dot trolls fandom

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sailorsally · 9 months

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Funny how a professional author and screenwriter summarised the plot of a TV show, in which one being stood infront of another and admitted his feelings, and one of the beings could not reciprocate at that time, and one of them also got blasted to another plane of existence leaving the other depressed and alone, as romantic.

Funny, you mean to tell me that's not platonic dude-bro behaviour? Who'd have ever guessed that was romantic, eh SPN.

Honestly I am gonna say something: as someone who has come into the SPN fandom following 15x18 craze I too was very vocal about "them" being homophobic and calling the fans "delusional" without actually ever asking who those "they" were in the first place? Maybe I don't know fandom history well enough or don't think there is much point in it after the confession but I get the impression that people will often be angry with the writers for "queerbaiting". That was also something I was aware of for years before I started watching spn at all.

I think everyone who blames writers for queerbaiting in spn is wrong. SPN is queer not because a bunch of fans decided they were gonna have a very queer field day with this seemingly "macho" show. It is queer because for years writers neatly put one subtly queer block on another to build a queer narrative. Sadly they couldn't be as vocal about it as Neil Gaiman is because a)homophobia was more rampant back then b) the network had done market research and the results said that destiel wasn't something people wanted. Yes, throughout the years there have been some writers in the mix and some actors (jared for example is still very anti destiel. Jensen for me is on probation rn lmao) who were against destiel but I would say that most people in the winters room were very much on the board and made very specific choices to prove this. Remember when Misha said , even years before the confession how they were all aware of Destiel and had had talks about it? How Mark Sheppard said they all knew Cas was in love with Dean? I feel like Destiel was an established idea amongst the creatives working in the show it's just that they couldn't be vocal about it because well, if anyone is going to be blamed for any homophobic crimes it's the C*W network isn't it? And after the whole Misha biasco and how the network was urging him to stay out as bi because that would be more profitable, I didn't even think the anti destiel stance was really fueled by homophobia but more likely by their conviction that most of their viewers would absolutely flip shit if Dean Winchester was anything other than straight. And yes, you will ask WHO wouldn't want Destiel to be canon?? And I'll tell you that I know it feels hard to believe that people would watch SPN for anything besides Destiel or the queer themes so intricately woven into it but having been to a SPN convention now I can say that these people very much exist and most likely were the group they used for market research back in the day.

Sorry this got a lot longer than anticipated but all in all, I think (most) writers very much always saw dean & cas as romantic because they write them as romantic and tbh at this point I'm under the impression that nobody is trying to nohomo Dean & Cas. Except wincesties, that Adam Williams dude and Clif & other few 'Dean can only be straight because he is part of my straight fantasy' girlies. And some con organizers. Which is an entire new topic tbh and, again, I do not know a lot about fandom history, but I think most transgression against fans was always comitted at cons and cons are the 'sales' side not the 'creative' side of things so they would have to follow the networks guidelines. Or sometimes make their own stupid choices I guess (sincerely, fuck you Daniela).

#god this got out of hand im sorry anon #spn #spn wank #ask sally

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incarnateirony · 1 year

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For those wondering if the die-hard antis will finally pack it in if we get canon Destiel in a way even they can't deny--I wouldn't hold my breath. If they are forced to accept canon Destiel they'll just make up some bogus reason for why it is 'homophobic, achsually', just like they did with Cas's confession and with Carlos.

It's the sunk cost fallacy. These people have created a whole identity and a community, such as it is, around hating Destiel. They will never, ever reconsider. As for canon, let me tell you: I come from a het ship fandom where the couple kissed on the mouth on screen and the antis were writing thinkpieces about why it was a 'friendly kiss', or a 'kiss of gratitude'. So even if the coconuts do collide, brace yourself, cause even that won't be enough.

What I'm trying to say is, let's make our win what we can get on TV, not what we can get the antis to admit, cause that's a lost cause. Let them wallow in their crackpot theories and metas and just enjoy TW :)

Tale as old as time. Whether that be the No Romos of X Files Mulder and Scully that platsplained their marriage and kid; the raging homophobes arguing with the memory of Diana Ross and the drag queens that inspired her about what I'm Coming Out is "actually about" in the youtube comments TO THIS DAY, and so on.

It's a goalpost--and frankly, dogwhistle even within "shipping fandom", some true bitters and others manipulators like 2po and their groups with the agenda in your ask--that I've warned about for many years.

In many ways, it's already been run out. Names like 2po, or jess of Mary Sue, that pretended to be so very in the know. Yelled I was delusional, claimed they had better access to Bobo to know his intent than I did (Jess.) But I could spend a week listing the reasons I knew what I knew was Real and a Fact no matter what they screamed, and not be done. And it was real.

They spent that time revving old shippers into attacking-down their low visibility text, making up some fandom noise rule that, if it isn't so loud it can't be argued with (imaginary point), it's subtext, and anything low visibility was "settling"--an attack whistle used to send hellers at me when I said Berens was putting his best faith work in for us, and even if he couldn't run it, to respect what he pushed and weaved through into textual canon, even if quiet.

After all, he almost quit season 14. Wayward was toast, his contract was rolling. He only signed again shortly after Ouroboros, maybe within a month. Because he'd been convinced to stay even while Yockey burned out and left an empty throne, to run that ball on a spiral someone recognized his endeavors on and further sort of mapped the way. On a gift. To a friend. To ride that spiral till the end so we might go where no one had been.

Covid crashed many dreams, including his second sprint. But not everybody gave up. But all those years, this whole damn time, this forged mistruth about the authors. These lies and filth and biases that buried this, and continued to bury this. The propaganda that spews from 2po to make, say, hellers feel like they're the second class citizens now.

But even by the end of SPN, we had all but won without covid giving Singer time to jam the game. Berens had the rest of the room with him. And even when we scraped our knees we got the most unlikely ally imaginable. A jensen ackles that couldn't sleep, couldn't let go, couldn't move on. a jensen ackles that knew dean winchester's story wasn't done, and was now deeply haunted by the way things ended with Castiel. He'd had his own enlightening, staring a universe-shaking performance in the face and adding the pieces together. And Jensen Ackles... 404ed and forgot his lines, barely muttered anything adjacent to the script, and wept on the floor. And into the winter.

And this entire time. People are still tearing him apart. Even as he hires the most powerful possible LGBTQ advocate to run his entire company, someone the president of WB even fears, able to unleash all of the gays of DC on the WB with a trigger pull, if Glen Winter isn't enough to back them down in general. Not that there IS a "them", because Zaslav's management leaves Jensen and Renee in charge.

That old world is gone. Big scary network and studio changes happened but we're still here, no matter what false prophet doomsayers said. And the gays have the reigns and there's nobody to tell them to stop, and jensen's the one slapping the horse on the ass now and telling Robbie to ride faster.

For those that really have foraged out the truth of transitions in the last 4 years or so, it's clear as a bell what's going on. But people like those you describe thrive on relevance created by people being compelled to argue them in mass, rather than laugh them off for absurdity. They did it with Mulder and Scully and they're doing it here in the middle of The Great Destiel Sprint, all from imagined perspectives in their minds.

These perspectives have failed them again, and again, and again, but like you said, they don't course correct. Sunken cost. And that cost is that, they have years of sins against them. It's not even just about the ship. These people spent millions, these people sent threats and shards and weapons to people, they've doxxed actors and fans and entire servers alike and felt righteous about it. And in the end when it Is What Is Is, even if they were to accept it HAPPENED.

The ability to process the meaning after--and that they are, in fact, the Akrida, and the unwanted locusts being flushed out--that'll just join the mountain of other things under the rug, with each person setting their embarrassment tolerance threshold of how stupid thy'll make the long term no romo arguments. Even as the showrunners constantly remind you the old series was bromance but THIS one is romance. It says it on the tin. And the posters. And the promos.

I have a feeling a bunch WILL leave, because some will hit their limit on how stupid they're willing to present them as in public. I expect a bunch of them to end up ripping each other apart, then it'll settle and the sad, sad last stragglers will make whatever new mewling sounds of denial, but we won't hear the starving strays, they're getting trampled by the clown parade worse than mufasa in the gorge.

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scoobydoodean · 1 year

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The only issue I've ever had with DeanLisa is that it reads too much to me like the "I've met you only a handful of times and I wanna spend the rest of my life with you" ala Disney Princess + Prince trope, and I just can't stand that trope. That's just a personal preference though

But I've never had a problem with Lisa herself - I think she's really fucking cool actually, and that she really did care about Dean. I think they both were reaching for an ideal, a dream, and they found solace in each other, but the circumstances that led them together (the second/third/fourth) time were not conducive to a lasting relationship.

I think it's more biphobic to be super anti DeanLisa tbh? (as a concept, not saying you have to ship them). Bc it's denying that part of Dean, like people really wanna dive deep into Dean's queerness in the way he interacts with men, but it's incredibly biphobic to then deny a relationship he had with a woman that meant a lot to him. That relationship doesn't take away from his queerness, he's still bi even while he's with a woman. Sure, I can see the argument behind comp cishet relationships and how that's bi/homophobic, but I think in this situation it's more nuanced than that? There's so many factors that lead into Dean going to Lisa (mainly feeling completely abandoned by everyone..which...he more-or-less was, be it on purpose (Cas) or not (Sam)) after such incredible trauma, he's obviously going to go to someone who he can find comfort in, that he already knows, who cares for him and he cares for back...I don't think that's comp cishet

I guess I lived in my own little SPN bubble bc I had no idea people hated her so much until fairly recently, as I started seeing posts and stumbling upon old fics where she's written as a nasty bitch for NO good reason

I appreciate your thoughts on them, tbh bc I feel like I don't ever see people talk about them or it's in a very disparaging way

Yeah I agree with you. I have no problem with people just saying "I don't like it. It just isn't my thing. It's boring, it doesn't appeal to me, I do not vibe with it, I like another ship better, he should have gone to Cassie instead, I don't think the storyline ever should have been done because of x,y, z" etc. What is sooo weird to me is people who can't live with just saying they don't like it and have to make the fact that they don't like it some kind of moral issue and/or talk about it in a way that ends up just displaying their own (internalized or externalized) biphobia and misogyny (edit: and even ableism—because I have seen that one quite a bit too).

I have seen people say:

Lisa and Dean are both used up because they've had so much sex with other people and therefore the relationship is nothing more than an expression of their mutually low standards, where simultaneously neither of them are good enough for the other because they have had too much sex. (Which was then back tracked to Dean being the only one who is all used up from all the sex he has had, because we wouldn't want to be misogynists).

Dean and Lisa's relationship is conservative christian (as someone raised in a conservative christian home, I can assure you that is not the case).

Dean and Lisa is a heteronormative relationship and is therefore bad. That is... not only very debatable, but based on what? Why? What is so "heteronormative" about it? I'll pay someone $50 if they can tell me without being biphobic, homophobic, or misogynist, or basically line for line describing a post-canon or AU destiel fic they’ve recced before just replacing Lisa with Cas. (Having a home is heteronormative? Parenting a child? Living together? What is it? I can never get a straight (heh) answer.)

Dean/Lisa is biphobic. Again... why? Because Dean is with a woman? Do... do we know what bisexual means? Are we sure?? Because it sounds like—frankly—the queer community yet again being one of the more biphobic communities around, and saying bi people are only interesting and acceptable when they are in same sex romances, and otherwise they are heteronormative and bad and wrong and boring. Which is a great thing to make bi people on the internet (whether you count yourself among them or not) read. Like. I think the way we interpret many characters who are not explicitly and openly bisexual as bisexual has also in some sense poisoned people into treating bi-ness as like... an exciting accessory, instead of a sexuality. Which is again—not how bisexuality works, but is how people on Tumblr often seem to treat bisexuality when they act like it is an accessory being thrown on or taken off by a character. "Well Dean isn't wearing his bisexuality accessory right now since he's in a 'het' romance, so he is not shiny enough and I am not interested in him". It's just fucking weird and it makes me uncomfortable.

Also, I don't know why this comes as a shock to some people, but calling something "het" is not inherently an argument proving that thing is bad and wrong, and suggesting that it is is also fucking weird.

Edit: Another one I forgot—"Dean is messed up/'damaged' therefore Lisa should never have allowed him in her home". Because we think people with PTSD shouldn't be shown kindness by people who don't have PTSD, I guess, and people without PTSD should avoid people who have PTSD at all costs.

Like. It is no secret that I utterly despise Sam/Amelia. But you know what I don't do? I don't go around calling it heteronormative, or applying my weird conservative christian leftovers about sexual purity to the relationship, or saying Sam was too messed up in the head and a "normal" woman never should have allowed someone so "damaged" to be in her life, in order to shout from the roof tops how "problematic" it is for them to be together. I just say "I don't like it because Amelia is not an enjoyable character to me. I find her extremely awkward and uncomfortable and I don't like the way she talks to Sam and don't understand the romance."

#mail

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riverofrainbows · 1 year

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Wearing my spn merch shirt, digging up my stands anti possession bracelet. I play "Carry on my wayward son" as soon as the seconds tick down to midnight. I down the (gluten free, alcohol free) beer i poured myself for the occasion in one go. I almost cry as memories flashbacks of hearing of the finale rise up from where i buried them under nonacceptance. Tomorrow (or rather during daytime today) i will bake an apple pie in honour of Dean and to console me. All they had to do was not fuck up so severely to make this the anniversary of one of the happiest days of my life instead. I still can't bring myself to rewatch supernatural (as the urge to has been growing the last few days) except for the one christmas episode i watch each year.

Grieving again, just as i did two years ago. Want to find whoever butchered and edited the confession scene and the finale and make them regret all the pain they caused. Destiel is canon but at what cost.

#the shirt says 'keep calm and stay inside the salt circle'#also technically my mom is baking the cake i will just make sure it's an ungodly amount of apples and add cinnamon #own post #spn #november 5th #destiel

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morewyckedthanyou · 2 years

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For the shipping asks:

SPN (or any fandom of your own choosing <3)

Hahahah, good old Supernatural that we both have only watched the first 3 seasons of! 😆 Now, I also want you to know that I have, in fact, last watched any of those old episodes literal years ago so I don't really remember much... but I'll answer the best as I can.

put a fandom in my ask and i’ll answer:

otp I know if any random antis wander around and find this post they will want to stone me to death for saying this but... Wincest. No, I will not apologize.

favourite canon pairing As far as I remember there really weren't any canon pairings that lasted for longer than maybe an episode back in the first 3 seasons or if there were, they were bad and so I had no interest in them, lol.

worst pairing ever Again I can't really remember. 😅

guilty pleasure pairing My OTP? I don't feel guilty about it tho. I am too old and I already shipped this when I was like 16. I literally do not care what others think about me shipping this.

a pairing you want to see more Does Dean/happiness count?

that pairing everyone likes but you’re like “lol no” Destiel. I only watched the show in the first place when it was still about two brothers going ghosthunting and stuff. That was what drew me in, what came later with all that angels and demons nonsense didn't interest me in the slightest. Also I've maybe seen two episodes with Castiel in them, lol.

favorite non-romantic pair Not really a pair but Bobby and the boys. He was the father they deserved. <3

#shipping asks #answers #disdaidal

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laurelwinchester · 3 years

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destiel stans erasing dean winchester from his own story in order to prop up their faves, their ship, and their shitty, bland, one note fanon version of dean is my villain origin story.

#nearly every single post in dean's tag is about destiel #occasionally there's one that starts off about him but they always wind their way back to cas and that ship #soon there will be nothing left of him #with no new episodes canon dean - as in the person he actually was - will be quickly written over by destiel stans #he's being erased at a truly alarming speed #and i think that sucks #i think it's devastating #he was such a great character and they're erasing all of that in favor of shitty meta and dull fanon #newbies who find the show are just going to think that's who he was #their bullshit is so pervasive #it spreads over everything like mold #i hate what the destiel fandom has become and i hate what they've done to dean #it's like they're killing him all over again #how many deaths will there be for him?#the least they could do is let him rest in peace #and not reduce every single thing about him to a ship #spn discourse #anti destiel fandom

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normal-thoughts-official · 3 years

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honestly they do need to see better media, most of the posts I've seen.

they do lmao they really be unironically like "destiel is the most beautiful queer love story", "dean is the most psychologically complex character of all time", "the meta in the narrative is the most complex ive ever seen" like.... maybe you just ..... need to engage with better media 💀

#also when they post shit like MAYBE I WANT DESTIEL TO BECOME CANON BECAUSE IM TIRED OF BEING QUEERBAITED AND WANT TO FEEL LIKE IM VALID #and im like #i understand what ur saying and it is queerbaiting #but you have. so many other places to look for that???#even in mainstream media?#like why do you keep going to Queerbait Central and hurting yourself when its right next door to Actual Queer Content #again: THE CW AIRS SCHITT'S CREEK #u literally dont have to go thatfar #ask #immortals malec #anti spn #anti spn fandom #salt

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threshie · 6 years

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That's maybe an odd title, but what do you think of Cockles vs. Destiel as a fic title?

(I don’t generally do the RPF thing, and I will not ship real people, so for me “Cockles” here just means “Misha and Jensen, as friends.” For the record.)

Cockles vs Destiel: Misha and Jensen get into an ever-escalating contest to try and weird each other out with the most outlandish, explicit Destiel fanworks they can find. By the end they both are using fake screennames and writing the Destiel smut themselves.

They eventually realize that after over a decade of interacting with the Supernatural fandom, there is literally nothing Destiel-related that can shock either of them anymore, and they have to call it a draw.

Send me a made-up fic title and I’ll tell you what I’d write for it!

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dotthings · 1 year

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With Rob there in a 70's wig as the keyboardist of the band, yeah sure it could be Chuck and he's enjoying all this drama immensely, that's likely. It's creepy. But once again I need to do a reminder: Chuck does not force people to have feelings. He doesn't implant feelings. He moves events around the Winchester family, puts obstacles in, he can make things move physically, he can even force a human to move a certain way but he cannot make them feel what they don't feel. There was a ton of bad takes about this during the run of the mothership while antis kept trying to claim things like--Saileen is noncon, roofied into loving each other, when it was Eileen and Sam's real feelings all along. Chuck made a spell, a piece of paper, fall out of one of Rowena's spellbooks at the right moment, the rest was all them. That all was expressly canon, antis still kept shrieking it was noncon and Sam and Eileen didn't really care about each other and weren't really falling in love, that it was all Chuck.

That was antis being objectively incorrect and anti-canon. And that is the argument some fans of TW are reaching for again to deny what John/Mary actually is.

It already had become clear me on TW that John and Mary's romance is not cupid roofies. I've been saying this for a few months.

They were not forced to feel things.

They were not forced to fall in love.

Trapped in a maze, they ran their own race.

Mary tells John she needs more time. After seeing her friend Carlos almost having to sacrifice his very soul, and then when he refuses that path, Carlos almost died, and then Carlos serenades his friends, who are his family, Mary is shooketh. It made her think. Carlos sings to this rag-tag group of hunters who mean everything to him. He's lost a lot, had to lose some of his dreams, but gained a lot. Carlos leads with his heart and he's very loving.

It's after Carlos' song that Mary is able to go to John and act on her feelings she already has, but she was afraid. Mary, who Samuel said is so stubborn and will go head-first despite danger, when it's about killing monsters. But when it comes to feelings, and being close to people, especially her romantic feelings for John, she's scared.

Nobody roofied Mary into going to John and reciprocating.

Not Chuck. Not cupids.

Seriously, guys, so much of fandom is clinging to the idea that JohnMary is a manufactured romance where their feelings aren't real.

A lot of us thought that. I know. It's based on bits and pieces of information the mothership dropped, it's understandable, but if you look back now, you see how much was assumptions. Old school fandom made assumptions, newer fandom made assumptions.

And now TW is spelling it out loudly and clearing that up. It's not a retcon, it's a clarification and filling in blanks. We only had bits and pieces before and assumptions.

The love was real.

Their conflicts and problems were real.

They loved each other and they had a lot of problems, the marriage was troubled, and there's reasons for that. They both have issues.

What about any of this is real, we are.

Destiel shippers don't want to admit how similar these two love stories are, while TW keeps throwing Destiel parallels. It's not that canon is saying these two love stories are identical, but there are things in common some shippers don't want to admit. But also, what else are these parallels saying.

They are both romantic love stories.

Trapped in a maze but the feelings are real.

They love each other but the relationship has problems, conflicts, things that pull them apart.

TW is knocking on Destiel shippers' doors, you can answer or you can pretend it's not, because you're scared to be hopeful, about what TW is saying to you.

*****Also please don't diminish Carlos' emotional importance, the very self-evident impact he has on his friends, on Lata, on Mary, on John. Which was an A plot of this episode, the ep was very Carlos focused.*****

Don't ignore Mary starting to sob when she thought Carlos was about to die, John's anger on his behalf, Lata's tears, or how John, Mary, and Lata were all entranced by Carlos' song that he sang for them.

It moved Mary and it helped her get past her fear and she went to John and was able to reciprocate.

Nobody roofied her feelings.

It's just feelings.

#mary campbell #john winchester #john x mary #carlos cervantez #destiel #spnwin #the winchesters #spnwin spoilers #spnwin meta

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castielcommunism · 2 years

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the confession IS bad and the emotional whiplash is so severe. like. I had been absent from destiel fandom for Many Years and then I find out it's canon and my brain is like 🚨🚨🚨 and then I watch a clip and it's. so ugly (maybe contender for top five ugliest scenes in all of spn?????) and the text is actually so bad. I then warm up to it because brain worms and it Is after all a big victory for 15 year old me. I rewatch the show to catch up and it turns out cas said all that one episode after dean committed some of his most dislikable actions ever (against cas' CHILD nonetheless) and it's just... Why and How and Why again

It’s often really frustrating talking about the confession on here because you need to pre-empt the discussion with a bunch of caveats. Because like yes it is actually pretty monumental that we have explicit textual confirmation that Cas is gay after all these years, and that retroactively re-informs how you read a lot of his scenes with Dean leading up to it. It’s not just representation at the point of introduction, it also re-contextualises prior canon. Which is cool! That’s a lot better than “Cas was gay all along but it wasn’t relevant to Harry’s journey” style of rep. I’m a post-Nov 5th casualty, so I wasn’t around for a lot of the homophobic fandom stuff. It’s obviously been a hostile environment for lgbt rep for a long time and having that finally be validated on screen is, in a vacuum, a win (although I think you should be deeply suspicious of anyone who claims that spn’s central flaw was homophobia). It has also led to some of the best posting I’ve seen in years, so for that reason alone I’m glad it happened.

But stepping away from that history of general hostility towards fans, the confession sucks ass lmfao. Even setting aside how ugly the blocking and lighting and make-up and editing and camera work is, the substance of the confession is poor. I made the point badly in this post, but real “rep” is not a singular pronouncement of queerness that has no lead up or follow through. What does the story gain by having Cas be in love with Dean? What are the consequences? How does this develop the characters? It happened in the third-to-last episode of the series finale, had 0 textual build-up (subtext that can be read as textually gay in light of the confession is a poor replacement for intentional build-up), and then it was never brought up again. The substance of Cas’ representation can be condensed into a single tweet, which is not so much a win for the homo community but rather a marketing strategy that, again, was baffling in its execution because it had no follow through. It is a hollow victory that serves as little else but a rhetorical tool to own anti-destiel people online (“never give an impassioned reply when a ‘Castiel supernatural has gay sex’ will suffice” as the saying goes). Which as a terminally online person that isn’t nothing, but aside from discourse and some great posts, what have we substantially gained in the realm of character development or representation?

Now the lack of build-up is a narrative staple of spn, so it’s not a sin that is unique to the confession. There’s also a lot of external factors that made it a lot worse than it likely would have been otherwise (COVID, writers room bullshit, actor drama, etc), so I don’t want to imply that the confession is bad on purpose or whatever. But like *speaking as a casgirl voice* speaking as a casgirl it does legitimately suck that the bulk of Cas’ confession was essentially an ode to Dean before he was killed off for mainpain AND THEN NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN. like that is insane lmao.

And again I know obviously if you’re confessing your secret love to a guy after years of hiding it, the topic of conversation is going to be about that guy. My issue is that it feeds into a broader problem, which is that all roads lead to Dean Winchester in the show. I want Cas to express his love on his own terms, from his own perspective, with his own complex mix of feelings on the subject. I’ve said this before but you don’t secretly love a man from afar for 12 years and not go a little bit insane. Resentment and bitterness and hopelessness and anger are normal, human responses to suppressing that amount of intense emotion for that length of time. Being in love with someone you’re convinced doesn’t love you back is a horrific position to be in. And instead of playing on the beautiful human tragedy of that, we get “ur the perfect most special guy ever I love you bye.” It’s not even that I want the confession to be Cas angrily yelling at Dean about how hard it’s been for him, but can we PLEASE get some of the energy we had in the alleyway scene where Cas shoves Dean around and screams about the sacrifices he’s made for him.

My other issue is that by s15, the narrative rot is so entrenched that I can’t really take it seriously, so even the narrative lead-up to the confession (such as it exists) is one that I’m not really interested in entertaining. the Jack stuff, Dean being the angriest most intolerable guy ever, the Chuck plot, the fact that Sam had been a non-entity in the show for so many seasons, everyone is miserable all the time, the racist shit they pulled with Billie at the last minute, etc. The confession exists in a sea of other stupid and ridiculous storytelling decisions.

I always feel like I’m making my point badly when I talk about this, and if you disagree with what I’ve said I don’t mind reframing what I’m talking about because we probably actually agree, I’m just expressing my point poorly. Like I feel like a lot of the discussion about “is the confession good” is a bunch of people who agree with each other yelling across the room at one another (or that’s been my experience, anyway). The crux of the argument I’m trying to make is that Cas is essentially treated like an accessory to Dean in his confession, much the same way that female love interests are in stock standard manly movies about manly men. The scene is about Dean more than it’s about Cas, especially in light of the fact that Cas is never seen on screen again and it is, AGAIN, never addressed by any of the characters. That sucks, I don’t like that, I don’t think it’s good representation no matter how much it’s a win for the hellers or whatever, and I don’t like it very much.

I have to concede that “the one thing I want is something I know I can’t have” is a certified banger though. If the confession had been that and some alleyway action I’d be a lot happier.

#deancas.txt #cas.txt #spn.txt #asks #cas studies #meta #? idk what to tag this as lol

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incarnateirony · 1 year

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So what I’m getting is Destiel is still canon and will again be canon and also have some sort of satisfactory acknowledgement of this which is blatant enough to be understood by GA & antis who willfully misunderstand things. Despite the BEATING. OVER. THE HEAD.

Yeah uh. That's it that's the truth. Robbie called Destiel canon in S10. He wrote the original omitted I Love You. The ending is Berens' Omitted Vision Of The Future. We're not just in the finale omitted, we're in All The Omitted.

Per Lateralus, this all actually goes back to All Along The Watch Tower along with Who We Are (they were a two hour special together) running parallel to going all the way back to In The Beginning.

Dean's had his queen the whole time. Sometimes he knew more than others. And he's spent his whole life running from this, like mary did hunting. Like mary in the djinn dream, where she got Stung. By an ant, or a Bee. That buzz in the background whenever they try to speak the truth. As opposed to chirping birds. The birds and the bees, courtesy a rare spanish dub when you open the door to the Truth, maybe a latam syncretization. But still The Truth. He has to open that door to see past Roxxy, see past himself, and Find the Queen.

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naruhearts · 3 years

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I’m done keeping my composure.

Sorry, this will be a LOADED post! (And I’ll be repeating the points others have made)

for real, to everyone being nasty and telling heartbroken fans that “Dean was always supposed to die get a grip you’re just butthurt etcetera etcetera—” F you royally.

How dare you police the brutal feelings that’s been embroiling us since the Finale That Must Not Be Named aired.

The show you think you all watched, the show you all believe was the same SPN from Season 1-4, changed at some point. Kripke wrote his original vision, put it to screen, saw it through in S5 as he intended, and closed the door on that era.

In 2008, Supernatural was adopted and inherited. As you know, there was a supreme paradigm shift post-Kripke era. The show FLOURISHED (we won’t talk about Gamble thanks). It evolved, transformed, grew beyond trauma-induced self-worthlessness and toxic masculinity and endless death and hegemonic social ideals and conservatism and repressive anti-revolutionary ideas. Castiel, the iconic favourite and beloved staple of the series portrayed by Misha Collins, was introduced in Season 4 as the core lead character, and he ushered in a brand new era of Christian mythos that SPN took advantage of. Longevity SKYROCKETED. Audiences were INTERESTED. SPN amassed an incredibly groundbreaking fanbase infused by non-nuclear principles. A massive subversive wave began, fighting the Status Quo of the times since 2008. It’s precisely why such an abysmal ending to a show of extensive Freud-Jungian metanarratively meta META complex stature and social POWER will render us totally and unbearably broken for years to come.

Point is, DEAN WINCHESTER NO LONGER WANTED TO DIE. HE WANTED TO LIVE. HE WANTED TO SIT ON THE BEACH, PLUNGE HIS TOES IN THE SAND, AND SIP UMBRELLA DRINKS WITH HIS BROTHER AND HIS BEST FRIEND. He said this in Season 13. And then, a season later, he told the ghost of his long-deceased father — the source of his deep-running trauma and the figure of self-reductive authoritarianism permeating his arc since Season 1 — after being questioned why he didn’t pursue the Nuclear Fam, that he already has his own: his brother Sam, his adopted child Jack, and Cas.

Dean’s best friend Cas. Oh god, Cas, who made his inevitably permanent mark on Dean’s soul beyond allyship. Castiel, renamed to Cas, God’s -iel removed by Dean. Dean, the human spark that lit the fire of pre-existing autonomy in the inherently rebellious angel who was, this entire time, the catalyst for free will in God The Writer’s puppet show. Their friendship set on goddamn fire. I can also write paragraph upon paragraph about my love for Cas while devastated tears stream down my face, but I digress—

Cas’ romantic love for Dean pushed our main Heart of SPN to love himself. Love is free will. Free will is also love. Of note, Cas’ love confession in 15x18 was supposed to offset something so vastly important and fundamental...to maybe (read: most likely) pull the trigger on SELF-TRUTHS in conjunction with free will. And The Great Anticipated Follow-Up to the episode penned by the passionate Berens should have included (read: seemed like it was going to be) Dean, closeted trauma survivor in love with his best friend, being given the opportunity to do it right: to SPEAK HIS TRUTH, and then that very singular opportunity was STOLEN so grossly. After poring over it for days, I refuse to believe we made their years-long story up out of thin air, spun it out of fantastical-delusional dream cotton candy, because we DIDN’T. IT WAS REAL.

As I said in another post: “I’ve just been feeling physically ill for the past >40 something hours with the terrible knowledge that 19/20 undid years of vital progression towards healthy interdependence, autonomy, and a positive endgame, where Sam, Dean and Cas close the ring of found family in final empowering self-fulfillment...where Dean, no longer repressed and set free, is able to use his words and speak his truth as a queercoded trauma survivor, henceforth confirming and self-affirming his own bisexuality since S1 by reciprocating — by telling Cas that he always loved him, too, loved him endlessly, which would have altogether divested Supernatural of its cult status and catapulted it into global worldwide significance as the longest running sci-fi genre show in American broadcasting history that actually dared to defy and, by proxy, empower LGBTQ2IA+ everywhere who found profound personal meaning in Destiel through VALIDATION,” — found themselves mirrored in Dean and Cas’ respective character journeys individually and as each other’s queer love interests.

THIS IS WHY DEAN WASN’T MEANT TO DIE.

THEY WERE SO ESSENTIAL, NOT JUST TO THE OVERARCHING STORY AND HEALTHY INTERPERSONAL THEMATICS OF MODERN SPN, BUT ALSO TO THE SOULS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE WORLD WHO FOLLOWED THEIR JOURNEYS, HOPED FOR THEM, ASPIRED TO BE LIKE THEM, TREASURED THEM, WEEPED FOR THEM, AND FOUGHT FOR THEM, LIKE YOU AND ME.

Heck, how could anyone think Sam Winchester had a well-deserved characteristic ending? He didn’t. Dean’s brother was shafted so badly. He stopped hunting when seasons ago, he had canonically accepted that he no longer wanted an apple pie life. He simply...turned the lights off in a resoundingly empty bunker and left — abandoning his dead brother’s room — never to return (he did return later to get the Impala, family photos etc, I mean this symbolically)...as if — dare I say it — Supernatural itself eerily told us, in the negative-spaced pitch blackness, that the organic show and the wonderfully complex, matured characters we’ve grown to love weren’t going to survive or be revisited...that it was all going to perish, and that they no longer gave a single shit about their own show, which, to me, is the worst cardinal sin, because how dare they throw Team Free Will, an immovable and indomitable and passionate found family they built from the ground up, a found family CHOCK FULL TO THE BRIM OF LOVE AND LIFE RAGING AGAINST THE AUTHORITARIAN MACHINE IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE FREE WILL, under the bus no matter who is to blame. Growth was stomped on.

Then Sam married a faceless wife who wasn’t his textually established (and deaf) love interest Eileen, named his son Dean Jr., and grew old miserably, still mourning the passing of his older brother, shaken and sombre. Back to square one. IT WAS ALL ANTITHETICAL, even OUTSIDE a shipping context, and I ripped my hair out at this point in sheer disbelief.

This 15x20 ending would have fit somewhere between S4-7. Now? IT DOESN’T FIT. IT’S A JAGGED PUZZLE PIECE THAT DOESN’T BELONG ANYWHERE. IT’S THE FOREBODING UNKNOWN STRANGER IN ITS OWN LAND, BOTH LITERALLY AND FIGURATIVELY. This kind of ending was basically an illogical, unsound cluster of metastasized cells that, to me, ruined the viability of previous seasons to sustain bold praise and respect and dignity and rewatches and classic nostalgia in such insidious ways.

Dean Humanity Winchester and Cas, after everything they’ve been through, were silenced and lost in death, ripped apart from each other, unable to love each other the way they deserved, because of disappointing, vile incompetency and homophobia. The greatest love story ever told, again obliterated in less than 60 hollow minutes.

You know what this tells your audience, CW SPN? Death without self-growth is the way to go, and no one is allowed to forge their own path to freedom.

HOW INSULTINGLY HARMFUL IS THAT?

I don’t think I’ll ever stop grieving.

We all deserve answers.

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