#and then got me thinking about the parallels between his actions and remus’ | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

averykedavra · 3 years

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joan - what do you wish the series would cover next, or what kind of turn would you want to see it take?

!! okay this is a really fun question. ‘cause i’ve thought about this a lot. timeline-wise, I only got really involved with the fandom around the release of ATHD, and ever since then i’ve really enjoyed imagining the “next” events of the series. sometimes theories, sometimes just AUs, but it’s always fun!

and see, there are tons of things i’d love to explore in the context of canon. like sides switching from light to dark, or a side shutting themselves off, or serious backstory elements like the formation of roman and remus. tons of stuff that’d be super cool to think about.

but they’re not stuff i’d actually want in canon necessarily, you know? and they’re mostly not stuff i’d ever expect canon to actually do. so here’s a little incomplete list of things i’d love to actually see in the series, and which I think are (semi)-plausible:

1. Roman’s arc. had to add this one. I’m pretty sure it’s coming up after PoF (and it better) and I am so, so excited. roman’s been a slow-boiling pot of emotional turmoil for a while now and I just wanna see it spill over!

and look. don’t get me wrong, i love the pintroverts so much, but—yeah, i really wanna see thomas and nico go through a rough patch. thomas, and by extension roman, are pinning so many expectations on nico. they’re emotionally unready and using nico like a way to redeem themselves and feel better, instead of confronting their own issues. not to say the relationship can’t work out, but i can figure there’ll be some bumps on the road.

and possible failure with nico would be a great catalyst for roman’s full breakdown. he’s got everything riding on this guy! he calls nico “a chance at happiness”! and he’s the romantic side, he wants this to work out, so thomas will trust him again. and if it fails, it’ll break roman into tiny, tiny pieces.

plus, i know the season finale is probably going to be a two-parter, like with virgil’s episode? and i don’t know if i actually want roman to duck out, but i am really excited for some parallels to virgil’s arc. acceptance instead of redemption, being more than your function, every side being valued, and virgil and roman continuing to become closer together. if i do not get a remix of “you make us better” but virgil to roman, i will riot /j

2. Logan’s arc. then following roman, our braincell boy! logan is another steaming pile of issues who’s been repressing for far too long. i want to see him admit he has feelings. i want to see him cry. maybe this is the angst demon in me, but come on, he deserves it.

an aspect of logan that’s really fascinating to me is his relation to thomas’ own self-image and needs. logan defines himself by his use to thomas—he has the least belief in himself as a separate entity. and he’s felt sidelined for a long time, possibly ever since thomas became a youtube.

i think it’d be super interesting to see more of how their dynamic was before thomas made the career switch, how logan feels about it, and how his “lack of feelings” is an extension of his refusal to acknowledge his own personhood. he doesn’t let himself want or feel—and he’s actually kinda similar to roman in that regard. roman and logan are narrative foils in a lot of ways. which would make it kinda cool if their arcs were somewhat consecutive—logan helps roman value himself, and roman returns the favor.

oh, and i’d love it if virgil and logan could come full circle, too? virgil comforts logan during the whole thing, maybe even talking to him about cognitive distortions or using techniques logan taught him to destress. they’re really good friends and i wanna see more of that.

3. Janus becoming part of the group. i have so many feelings about janus. he’s poised to join the gang and start helping thomas from the inside, but his acceptance is still conditional, fragile, and fragmented. roman loathes him, logan resents him, and virgil has a history with him. and janus is gonna have to try and get through all that.

i already love his dynamic with patton, i really want them to be friends. i think a logan and janus debate would be fucking fantastic. i am begging for roman and janus to talk things out. and i really, really want to see virgil and janus become friends again.

but maybe what i’m most interested in is janus himself, and his relationship to thomas. i still love interpreting the “is that fair to him” line as referencing janus’ complex and difficult role as the keeper of all lies. he’s still hiding an orange side from us, probably, and he’s trying to keep everything stable.

what happens if he slips up? what happens if he gets close to patton and starts having new priorities? how did that affect his relationship with virgil? i want to really explore janus’ character and motivations.

and also janus and remus content. give it. this is an order.

4. Remus. Literally anything remus. Please I’m starving, I just want to see my trash boy, when will he return from the war?

Seriously, though, I’d love more remus. his thoughts on nico. his motivation, his daily life, his relationship with janus and the other sides. i think he could really be great friends with all of them if he was given time to settle, and my intruality heart says he deserves to be chaotic besties with patton.

and! and his relationship with roman!! i really wanna see them grow closer and be bros, while working through the deep complexities of their issues with one another. because right now roman has so many projections of remus as his worst enemy and the epitome of everything he doesn’t wanna be, and remus just…doesn’t care about all that. that’s so interesting!!

remus is just such a refreshing character in so many ways. he’s so blunt and open and honest, he doesn’t hide or repress anything, and that’d be so much fun to explore! plop him in the middle of the other sides and see how long it takes for stuff to explode. i wanna see him break the status quo just because he can.

5. Patton’s arc. oh, you thought his character development was done? not even close. he learned a lot from moving on, but pof proved he still has a long way to go. and tbh I think he’s in a really precarious position right now.

yeah, he’s finally opening up to janus and the others. but he’s also very vulnerable, very unsure, and very ready to throw himself out of the picture if thomas needs him to. he asked if janus thought patton was just bad for thomas, and he seemed ready to take that advice and leave thomas be.

which is. concerning. and I think as patton learns to pull back and let thomas--and everyone--stand on their own without him smothering them, as he learns to have faith in others and not feel pressured to fix everything himself, he needs to work on his own self-worth, too.

patton, like a lot of the sides, is separating himself from his function. and that’s gonna be painful and messy and probably include a lot of backsliding. i wanna see him talk to the others, really talk to them, and get the support from his friends he needs! and that includes:

6. virgil continuing to support his friends. virgil has been doing great character-development-wise, but again, he has far to go! and what I want to see more of is stuff like FWSA. him beginning to truly support his friends in the way they’ve supported him.

his friendships with roman and logan are so sweet and I wanna see more of that. please. and I wanna see him bond with remus and janus again, and most of all, I want patton and virgil to really sit down and talk about stuff. they’ve been going through it for a while and I want them to talk.

the sad part, of course, is that post-pof they’re probably in an even worse place. there’s a reason patton didn’t show up in FWSA even when matters of the heart were involved. they’re on thin ice around each other, and throwing janus and roman into it will just make everything more complicated.

but I believe in them! they’re good friends, and I think if they try, they can work through it and learn more about each other.

7. bonding between the dark and light sides. basically already covered this one but guys. i want everyone to bond. i want logan and remus sharing cool facts. i want janus and virgil being snarky best friends. i want patton and remus teaming up to make stuff happen, and janus calling logan out on his repression, and virgil and remus listening to mcr and just. them, okay? them. glad we had this talk.

8. a breaking down of the dark sides and light sides altogether. i don’t necessarily mean anyone becomes a dark side (although it’s such a fun idea.) I mean really digging into the morality and formation of the “sides”, and eventually dismantling them.

the dark and light sides aren’t good and evil. they’re sides that thomas wants around, that are useful, and sides he doesn’t. and as janus becomes wanted at the table, and as patton and roman pull away and become less useful, it’ll be interesting to see how those dynamics shift.

the issue of identity is really at the heart of sanders sides. how much of you is you, and how much of it is what others want? are you beholden to others’ expectations, and how do you find personal worth? what defines you--by what measure is a man? how does a person change and grow? can they? or are they always, at the core, what they began as?

these questions obviously don’t have simple answers, but they’re stuff I wanna see talked about. i want to see the difficulty of even finding the line between selfishness and selflessness when you exist to serve another self. actions can be selfish and selfless all at once, a mass of contradictions that’s anything but black and white. and I wanna see more of that.

an idea I toy with sometimes is having a brief, or not so brief, reversal of dark sides and light sides. remus and janus, and maybe virgil, become more listened to. and roman, patton, and logan become the sides in the background. i dunno if it would actually happen, but I think it’d be interesting to consider--because once again, it’s about use versus value and wants versus needs.

if thomas wants a side, will they stick around? what about if he only wants to want them? what if he wants them as a friend but doesn’t need their function? what if they don’t think he wants them? what if any number of things?

i want to see discussion and deconstruction of the sides as a whole. i want to see them really dig deep into their purpose and formation. i want everything laid bare. and then finally, I want:

9. thomas ends the series by letting go of the sides. i am such a fucking sucker for bittersweet open endings like that. it wouldn’t be a full erasure of the sides, they’d still exist in the mind palace, probably hanging out and having movie nights and being a family. but they wouldn’t talk to thomas anymore.

i think it could be a really profound note about not only letting go of parts of your life and moving forward, but how c!thomas should work to stand on his own. yes, the sides are parts of him, but he’s more than the combination of their input. he’s his own person. he’s real. and I think he needs to work on being more self-reliant, in the moment, and start to discover his identity not in pieces, but as a whole.

the sides weren't bad for him. not in the slightest. they’ve helped him understand and come to terms with any number of things. but sometimes people grow and move forward, and they have to say goodbye to some parts of their life. that’s a fact. and with the ongoing theme of moving on and chasing the future, i think thomas would reasonably do that--end the series with a goodbye.

10. and...orange side. i’ve talked a lot about my ideas for the orange side, but suffice it to say, i’m looking forward to them. whoever they end up being.

so yeah, that’s a very long post about my ideas that isn’t half as long as it could be dhfgsjhs i’ve considered writing something like a canon divergence AU, or just rambling on tumblr, but for now that’s what I got. and this is all to say, hire me, sanders sides writing team /j

#sanders sides #patton sanders #logan sanders #virgil sanders #roman sanders #janus sanders #remus sanders #long post #asks and answers #anon #ts ask game #i'm so sorry for the length this went overboard sgfshsjks

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brandstifter-sys · 3 years

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Batter Up

@dukexietyweek Day 5 - School

Word Count: 2680 (Ao3)

Pairing: Dukexiety

Characters: Remus, Virgil, Patton

Rating: T

Warnings: mild innuendo

Virgil used to play softball before coming out and moving in with his brother. In this new school he doesn't touch sports, except for gym class and watching the baseball team practice, for artistic reasons, and because he has a crush on one of the players, Remus. But one day after accidentally breaking a bat and Remus' windshield in gym, Virgil gets a surprising offer from Remus, to show him a thing or two about the sport. Virgil tries to play dumb about the game and breaking the windshield just to get this kind of time with Remus, but who's to say Remus isn't trying the exact same thing to get closer to the shy emo?

---

No one seemed to think he would be capable of any great physical feat, but he didn't like to put himself out there so he couldn't blame them. Virgil was just glad that no one he particularly cared about was in his gym class.

"Oh shit," he grumbled under his breath, holding the dented metal bat in both hands. Everyone else was staring off in the distance, watching the arc of the baseball he gutted fall in the distance.

"Virgil, have you ever played on a team before?" Coach Patton asked from the mound. Virgil shook his head and shied away from the fresh-out-of-college teacher. It was a lie but he was not about to admit he played softball before he moved to this town with his brother.

"Well you have a knack for it! If you want to join the team, let me know!" Patton chuckled and pulled another ball from his pocket, "But I need you to go back inside to switch out that bat."

Virgil had never been happier to get away from class than in that moment. The ball landed in the parking lot and set off a car alarm. His classmates were starting to stare. He carried his shame across the lawn and into the gym, grateful he didn't get drafted or scolded. He didn't need that attention from anyone, ever.

Almost anyone.

Virgil could admit he liked watching the school team practicing, judging their stances and strategies from behind the bleachers. He had no problem with sketching the players in action, it was great practice, but one always stood out. Remigio Alesini, or Remus as he preferred. He wanted to catch Remus' attention.

Virgil couldn't help but notice him—he was loud, proud, and had a unique way of moving. That and he was weirdly charming, sweet and vile, a chaotic blend of energy in a handsome meat suit. He was smart, strong, kind, and he had a lot of friends. Virgil hated having a crush on him of all people.

Rather than dwell on the guy who had to repeat kindergarten and wasn’t in his gym class, Virgil flicked on the lights in the supply room and sought out a new bat, hoping that his unofficial home run wasn't the hot topic still. He would be surprised at how long it would haunt him.

---

It was after hours and Virgil was behind the bleachers, sketch pad out and pencil ready. He was working on a more detailed sketch of Remus and wanted another look at those bright features. But as the team finished running laps, Virgil caught sight of Remus' concerned expression.

"Hey Ree, what's doin'?" one of his teammates asked as they gathered their equipment.

"My windshield has a wad of ball guts jammed into it, it's not a big deal but whichever one of you chuckle fucks did it is gonna pay!" Remus laughed, and laughed harder and at the teammate's expression—sheer terror. Virgil was twice as terrified.

"Can't get your crush with a busted windshield?" a different teammate, Remy, jeered.

"You still have the hots for his brother, you have no room to talk!" Remus grinned, "Especially when you're dating my brother!"

"Alright boys and non-binary sluggers," Coach Patton said as he approached the dugout, "Save the chatter for later, we have to be ready for the game on Friday! Get in the field and have a catch while I set up the bags!"

"But we were talking about Ree's busted windshield!" Dave, the shortstop with a wild mop of hair and glasses, countered.

"So that's the car that got hit!" Patton mused. Virgil froze and prayed Patton would keep his mouth shut. He did not want Remus to be pissed off at him, or the rest of the team, but unlike them, Remus mattered to him.

"Who did it? When did it happen?"

"It was during one of my gym classes today, and I was stunned! I don't think I ever saw anyone do that in real time! He was just as shocked, I think!"

"Who was he?" Remy pressed.

"That's not important right now, it's baseball time!" Patton said, "Now go partner up!"

Virgil sighed in relief as the team split up to practice. Patton could keep quiet so he could get back to drawing.

About an hour and a half later, he was adding detail to a sketch of Remus when he was batting. Each curve had to be precise, all the proportions correct, the energy in the pose perfect before he could add those eyes and that smirk. He didn't even realize that the majority of the team was gone.

"Hey there!" Remus greeted him from behind, making Virgil jolt and clutch his sketchbook to his chest.

"Easy! Sorry for spooking you!" Remus chuckled, "Thought you might want to get out of here since all the models are gone—except me, but I don't mind modeling for you in a more private setting!" He winked, getting Virgil to turn red.

"I don't draw nudes, if that's what you're thinking," Virgil grumbled, wishing he could disintegrate on the spot. Remus beamed, his cheeks taking on a pink hue.

"Now I'm thinking about it! But I get the impression you're looking for some dynamic poses that require clothes—or you really like baseball!"

"I mean, yeah, both, but it's not a big deal. Shouldn't you be with your team?"

"Nope! They trust the gym showers and I don't! Besides, I've been meaning to talk to you since you're always here!"

"I can go if it's a proble—"

"No! It's cool!" Remus cut him off quickly, "I'd like to see what you're drawing if that's cool, and if not maybe I could show you some stuff like using a glove or batting since they're doing baseball in gym and stuff!" He was grinning like crazy and Virgil was sure his heart was going to explode. This was the perfect opportunity to get close without too much risk. He just had to play dumb to get the most out of this one-time chance.

"If you want to, you can show me some stuff, but you don't have to," Virgil shrugged and rubbed his neck shyly.

"I want to show you a lot of stuff, Virge, but let's stick with baseball!" Remus giggled and took Virgil's hand, internally screaming when the emo decided to hold it and get up.

"You can show me other stuff another time," Virgil grumbled and prayed he wouldn't make a fool of himself.

"Only with permission!" Remus laughed, a genuinely amused kind of laugh, and dragged Virgil onto the field towards the dugouts.

"So, uh, what are you showing me?" Virgil stammered, kicking himself for being so timid. Remus didn't seem to notice it, or at least he didn't acknowledge it.

"Well I was thinking about showing you how to throw, maybe pitch, and then how to hold a bat! But if there's anything you want me to show you, I can! As long as it's not too illegal—I'm not about to expose a minor to—"

"I'm eighteen. Try again," Virgil cut him off and scowled. He was baby-faced, sure, but that didn't mean he was that young. He frowned at Remus, who was digging through a storage box by the home team dugout.

"There's still other kids on school grounds! You're not stuck here alone with me!" Remus jeered and pulled out a mitt. He tossed it to Virgil and grabbed a ball.

"You know how to put that on, right?" Remus teased as Virgil stared at the mitt. He knew that he was not holding a standard glove, it was a catcher's mitt, but if he said anything, Remus might catch on that he knew far too much to need this.

"No, it's not like I have to use one in gym class," Virgil retorted wryly—he was not about to play that dumb. Remus giggled and moseyed to the dugout bench and grabbed his own glove.

"Did they teach you how to catch a ball without getting hurt?"

"Yeah, use the mit like a scoop and try to catch with the webbing between the thumb and fingers. Unless that's wrong," Virgil answered. Remus smiled at him and nodded.

"I guess Patton taught you guys how to throw too. Good. Those are the most important parts of the game!"

"I guess they are," Virgil mumbled. He hadn't really thought about it. He was too preoccupied with keeping his eyes away from Remus and not staring too long. He heard Remus jog a short distance and glanced up to see him standing on the pitcher’s mound, his glove at the ready.

“Toss it here!” Remus called, bouncing on his heels, ready to dive if Virgil’s aim was off. Virgil relaxed his shoulders and planted his feet before rearing his arm back and snapping it forward, flinging the ball into Remus’ glove without much struggle. He paled when Remus cheered and ran to him.

“Okay! Pat taught you well! And my god you have a great arm! Since I don’t have to show you the basics, wanna learn to pitch? I’m usually third base, but I can cover the mound in a pinch so I’m not talking out my ass!”

“Shit spews from both ends?” Virgil scoffed, immediately regretting it. Remus just laughed, like a hyena.

“Now that’s the kind of spunk Remy wishes he had! C’mon, I’ll show you the technique and you can show me what you got!” Remus said and dragged Virgil to the mound leaving no room for argument.

“Alright so the first thing is your stance, you gotta stand with your side kinda pointed at the plate, whichever side you have the glove on,” Remus explained and stood on the mound, mimicking his own instructions, “Keep your feet shoulder width apart and your body straight, putting your weight on your back foot. Then you bring both your arms in front of you and in one motion and lift your front leg so it’s parallel to the ground, like this. And then you’ll bring that leg down in a wide step with your toes pointed at the plate, keeping your body facing either first or third base, and your arms up about shoulder height with the back one bent upward by the time your foot meets the ground. And you’re gonna push off with your back leg to get some real power as you throw, and you want to follow through, leaning over your front leg to really drive that ball home.” He repeated all the steps in one swift motion and hurled the ball over home plate, and into the fence behind it.

Virgil was stunned, and he wasn’t going to tell Remus it was because his form was so bad but the throw was decent. Remus could live thinking he just impressed Virgil, he looked like he just won the biggest prize at a rigged carnival game, happy and flushed as he fetched the ball.

Virgil was less stunned and more startled when that ball came straight for him. He caught it without getting hurt but he would have liked some warning!

“Nice catch!” Remus beamed and ran over to him, dragging him to the pitcher’s mound, “Now you try!” He stepped back to give Virgil room and watched with interest as the emo took a deep breath and glared at the plate.

It was like second nature, he rocked his foot back and turned his other foot into the rubber pivot to keep from sliding. He reared his leg up and snapped forward, shifting his weight and moving his hips before his shoulders, lobbing the ball into the same fence, with more force behind his throw than Remus expected.

“Holy shit! That was awesome Virge! Do you always wear the hoodie to hide those arms? They’re probably so distracting!” Remus said and wrapped his arm around Virgil’s shoulders, “Oh yeah, you’re hiding some serious muscle under that hoodie! Lemme get you set to use them on the offensive!”

“You mean—?” Virgil muttered, willing away his blush and any latent feelings bubbling in his stomach. Remus was touching him and praising him, how was he supposed to keep his mind from racing?

“Batting! I won’t throw anything at you, but a good stance is important too! Hold that thought!” Remus giggled and took his glove. He skipped to the dugout box and swapped the glove for a bat. The same bat Virgil had to bring out earlier during gym class. He should have been more disturbed by it, but he was still a little put off enough to remember that he was the reason Remus would have to get a new windshield.

Remus dragged him to the plate and thrust the bat into his hands with a cheeky grin.

Virgil was weak in the knees, resting the bat on his shoulder as he tried not to think about Remus complimenting him over and over or that he accidentally cost Remus a trip to the mechanic. He wanted to believe there was something more there, like he wanted to pass out and not wake up.

"Alright, first," Remus said and placed his hands on Virgil's shoulders, "your footing is important," he nudged Virgil's feet into position with his own, pressing against his back, "they should be parallel like this."

"Oh—okay, um," Virgil winced. He couldn't have been that nervous! But when Remus slid his hands down his arms to his hands, Virgil wondered why he wasn't more nervous. That touch was far too gentle, almost reverent.

"You want to choke up on the bat more, like this—" he guided Virgil's hands on the bat, and didn't let go, "—and lift it off your shoulder." His breath was tickling Virgil's neck and Virgil could feel how close he was.

"Now bend your knees a bit and stick out your ass, and you'll be able to break my windshield again."

Virgil's breath caught in his throat and he dropped the bat. He was dead meat and his heart was racing.

"I—I–I'm sorry," he stammered, on the verge of tears. Remus hugged him and rested his chin on his shoulder.

"It was an accident. I'm not mad. I'm impressed! Coach told me all about it! And I thought you couldn't get any hotter!"

"What?"

"You're hot as hell and you gave me an excuse to talk to you, see how much skill you have, and ask you out!"

"Remus?"

"I've had a crush on you since freshman year! My god you have no idea how much of a spaz I was whenever I thought about you! Roman lost his shit I was so sappy and annoying! And that's saying something! I got over the craziness sorta but yeah I like you a lot!"

"Even if I—" Virgil winced and tried to keep from touching his binder.

"Even if you're not cis! You're you and I like that! So now you know what you're getting into if you agree to go to the movies with me since you busted up my car!"

"Can we get water ice and hang out instead?" Virgil asked and turned around in Remus' loose hold.

"I mean I wouldn't have the same chance to make out with you in the dark, but I like that idea!" he giggled.

"I could still kiss you if you want."

"Even if I want it right now?"

"Yeah," Virgil said and pressed a chaste kiss to his lips, “but if you have time after the water ice, we can watch Zombieland at my place with the lights out.”

“That’s a dangerous compromise,” Remus giggled, his face a lovely cherry shade.

“If you try anything too crazy, I’ll show you how I really use a bat,” Virgil countered, only to have Remus pull him close and hug him while he bounced on his heels. It was hard to tell who was happier when Virgil hugged back. It was probably the coach watching the pair from a safe distance away. It was nice to see those kiddos finally getting together!

#dukexietyweek2021 #remus sanders #virgil sanders #sanders sides #dukexiety #trans!virgil #ftm!virgil #patton sanders #sex mention tw #sandyscribed

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mischief-marauders · 4 years

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The Snape stans keep pushing this idea that it’s the marauders faults and Lily’s fault for Snape becoming a death eater. Let me ask you guys a question. If people who are bullied commit atrocious acts, wouldn’t that mean that a majority of them would be minorities? Like people of color, LGBTQ, women, etc? Because minorities go through racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. But funny enough, the people that do terrible things are mostly straight white men. So what does that mean? Here’s a part of an article I read for school whilst researching.

“A 2013 study at the University of Washington looked at the disproportionately high numbers of mass killings—defined as having at least three or more victims during a single episode—committed by young white men in America, and found a correlation between feelings of entitlement among white males and homicidal revenge against a specific demographic”

Snape felt entitled to Lily, couldn’t have her, so he joined an organization that hunted down and killed people like her people. It’s all about people feeling entitled. Thinking they deserve something. Death eaters thinking they’re entitled to better treatment and pure blood in the wizarding world. A lot of people are gonna comment “it’s fiction, it’s not that serious”. Yes it’s fiction, but we live in a world where it’s very much NOT fiction. Parallels can be drawn by the sympathy Snape gets for bullying and white male shooters getting it as well. Blaming the bullies just excuses the actions of the people that do terrible things. All Snape stans want to do is talk about poor Snape and the big bad marauders. I don’t see them holding him accountable for multiple deaths, physical abuse of Harry, emotional abuse of his students, etc. It’s his fault that James and Lily are dead. It’s his fault Remus got exposed as a werewolf. It’s his fault Emmeline Vance was killed. Are we gonna blame the marauders for Snape constantly bringing up Harry’s dead father and godfather in front of him and mocking them? Just a thought.

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quidfree · 4 years

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Hi! Thinking of Dumbledore + Sirius, do you think Sirius would feel sympathy for Dumbledore if he knew about how torn he was btw his siblings + feeling trapped? I judged him harshly at first, but now I think about the difficulty about losing both parents + sibling, but not wanting to sacrifice everything to step in as parent + guilt that comes with that. I do think Dumbledore loved his siblings + I was happy when his bro said he did a good job with their sis before her death.

hi! this is an interesting one hm

the thing abt dumbledore is that i’m pretty sympathetic to him all things considered- i’ve never really taken the time to explain my feelings about him on here but i definitely don’t think he’s snape levels of “fandom should see he’s irredeemably terrible!”, though i have a lot of qualms about him. he’s certainly not the hero rowling thinks he is, but he’s also not the guy rita skeeter says he is, to put it succintly.

on the one hand, i do think canon mostly fails to acknowledge that he was very manipulative/calculating and made a lot of very cold (or just plain terrible) choices- everything to do with sirius, for one, as well as the whole dursley situation. i know there’s a couple of reasons harry had to live with them (supposedly...) and i can’t be bothered to go into them, but even then i never understood why he couldn’t have done to petunia what he does in OOTP (?) sooner- send a letter to scare the shit out of her and remind her to treat harry decently or at least leave him to his own devices. like, there was so much he could have done in the years between the potters’ deaths and hogwarts- that squib neighbour was already spying/reporting for him, so he was fully aware of it all, idk. i just find that whole thing exemplary of his callousness. it’s more unforgivable to me than raising harry knowing he might need to die for the cause- because that was necessary to defeat voldemort, but giving harry an escape from abuse was so avoidable. his handling of other characters also doesn’t paint him in the best light, sirius as most obvious suspect- there’s a good piece on tumblr about sirius being a liability in his eyes because he’s not loyal to dumbledore or his cause above all else, but to the potters (and ultimately harry) and his own code, and i really think it’s the best reading of dumbledore’s handling of sirius in OOTP, because i always found that kind of insane. it’s brain-dead obvious that the worst thing to do with sirius (especially if you were worried about his unhinged state and whatnot) would be sticking him in grimmauld place- even if they had to keep him hidden, they could have let him floo between order hideouts! see other people! prowl london as a dog! it’s insane that dumbledore of all people would be that dumb about it, so it makes the most sense to me as him locking sirius up where he’s the most contained.

on the other hand, dumbledore was both a quirky schoolmaster and a wartime militia leader, and i think a lot of the weirdness in his character is bc rowling set out to write a much more child-like series than she ended up writing. dumbledore is a pretty iconic guy in the books, manipulations included- he’s such a chessmaster, and he has flair, as kingsley would put it. most importantly he clearly tries very hard to orchestrate the best possible outcome for the entire world- not based on arbitrary beliefs or personal whims, but because he’s sort of the main bastion of hope in the wizarding world. i don’t necessarily think his actions in this context are all excusable, but he’s a war-time leader, and pretty much knows it’s all down to him- although the order is certainly competent, it’s a very ragtag group of people dumbledore holds together, and in terms of skill, knowledge and aura he’s their biggest asset. he’s already been through a wizarding war where he probably set out to murder the love of his life, another wizard supremacist wackjob! we know he’s long past egoism- he’s genuinely For The Greater Good, and he clearly cares about harry; his choices are undoubtedly not made lightly. it’s also important to note just how bad wizarding society as a whole is on these issues- even the most muggle-friendly wizards are remarkably ignorant about them (arthur weasley), and everyone else is at least marginally bigoted; bigotry is built into the fabric of their society, and their government is extemely complacent/corrupt, so the order and their ilk are very much on their own, while people like the malfoys are tolerated despite the open secret of their wartime alliances. dumbledore has a tough job, and he doesn’t know all the things the reader knows. so i think the op-eds calling him Just As Bad As Voldemort or whatever are missing any nuance.

then we get into dumbledore’s backstory. it explains a lot about him, i think. it’s interesting to me that he’s so consistent as a character- he has always been about The Greater Good, and he’s always had an ego, but as a child he let the latter dictate the former and as an adult he forever attempted to substract it from himself lest he repeat the same mistakes. some more questionable rep from ms rowling in having her (1) gay character be the guy literally seduced into wizard supremacy by his evil boyfriend, but i always liked that beat of a very isolated extremely intelligent character drawn into a warped sense of righteousness- it’s also very consistent of dumbledore to believe he’s doing the best for someone when he’s not really thinking about that at all, which is the case with his sister. obviously his family’s story is tragic, and then he gets pulled into this fake vision of a better world, validated in his brilliance, and then there’s his mother’s death, and then his sister, and suddenly it’s all come crashing down and he spends the next years of his life slowly realizing he’s the only one who can stop a project he might have been overseeing once. aberforth lays into him for it, and fair enough, but jesus, what a shitty spot to be in fresh out of hogwarts. i don’t know if it’s because i’m an older sibling, but i can understand the horrible burden of knowing that it’s always on you to think of yourself second, even when you’re inches away from the best thing in your life.

getting sidetracked- the question was about sirius and dumbledore. the thing abt LMV is that i try to keep my own opinions out of it; the marauders-dumbledore dynamic is a difficult one. they all respect him endlessly, and in school i think they adored him, but as a wartime leader it gets complicated. i think in canon their relationship was better, just a little strained (and a little more for others) bc of his style of leadership- you know, keeping secrets, playing games etc. in LMV, though, his machinations got them personally into some shit, so i wagered things would be more terse. james i think thinks most positively of him, as he is wont to do so, except where he is somehow at odds with sirius, because his loyalties there are clear and he is far more violently protective of sirius than he lets on. lily is a close second, because she’s a big picture thinker and gets how hard his job is, but she tends to be wary of his reasoning. remus is a more distrustful person by nature, and dumbledore using him for werewolf stuff wears him down. sirius is not a fan of authority, does not like secrets, and hates people using him as a pawn, so things are most strained for him, obviously. i think a lot of dumbledore introspection in LMV is from sirius’ POV, somewhat accidentally, so he gets a harsh rep.

to finally get to the specifics of your question: would dumbledore’s backstory get sirius to sympathise? arguably not much. sirius is a tricky guy, esp because i write him in a period that we know nothing about. he’s not a cocky slightly feral 15 year old, and he’s not a traumatised 30 something prison escapee; i try to get a plausible balance, so i don’t lend sirius in LMV so much of OOTP sirius’ world-weary wisdom. he’s 21, and in a war where the other side are wizard nazis he’s mostly related to somehow; he sees things in blacks and whites almost necessarily. so either you’re good or bad, trustworthy or not. peter crossed the threshold, so he’s dead to him; regulus turned himself in, but he’s one of them, so sirius doesn’t know what to do with him. sirius might understand how hard it is to have younger siblings you love fiercely who don’t understand your commitment to a higher goal, but dumbledore was on the wrong side of things that time, so i don’t think he would draw any sympathetic parallels- i don’t see why he of all people would feel bad for where dumbledore’s youthful aspirations of wizarding supremacy lead him, despite his good intentions. he’s not very forgiving of bigotry, i think especially because he’s cut all ties with his own background so harshly.

tldr; i feel for the guy, and his life was fucked, but sirius probably would not, and dumbledore got enough unwarranted hero worship considering his dodgy actions that i don’t resent sirius for holding that grudge.

#qui repond #lmv #sirius #dumbledore #meta #hp #so loong

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writcraft · 5 years

Note

question 5?

Thank you for the ask!!! Sorry this answer got long, lol. What a surprise ;-)

5. Pro or anti Marauders?

Unequivocally pro. I’m not really ‘anti’ any characters, apart from the ones I find boring and I don’t care enough about them to be vocally ‘anti’ them in the first place really. I definitely don’t find the Marauders boring. Outside of Drarry and Snarry, Marauders dynamics are probably my favourite things to explore and I definitely gravitate more towards Marauders Era than Next Gen for example.

One thing I’ve found quite surprising about the Dreaded Snape Discourse is that there seems to be an anti-Marauder sentiment that can come with being pro-Snape, but to me liking Snape and liking the Marauders is not mutually exclusive. They clearly didn’t like each other and I don’t think Sirius, Remus or James behaved impeccably by a long stretch, but I’m not anti them. I remain genuinely befuddled by the idea that we can’t enjoy fictional characters because they do bad things, or that they have to be wholly good, or wholly bad with no space in between.

James is probably the least relatable to me, because I think he’s got the least amount of conflict. He’s pretty entitled, privileged and has the confidence and popularity that skews into arrogance. He can be a bully, but I think he also demonstrates a capacity to change and I think Lily would have been instrumental in that had he been given space to grow up and had we seen more of that arc. He’s fiercely loyal to his friends (becoming an Animagus is no small feat) and he fights against what he perceives as injustice, even if his own actions are not always just. Sirius, I love thinking about. I have so many headcanons for Sirius. He’s got the same privilege as James but is rejected by his family at a young age so convinced is he that they are wrong in their beliefs (which must take a tremendous amount of courage) and he ends up ousted by society too. He’s both very much on the inside, and also on the periphery, ostracised and incarcerated with Dementors for much of his life. Remus is another insider/outsider, even as he’s part of the ‘popular’ group at Hogwarts, he’s rejected by society at large. I think Remus and Sirius are two of the ‘queerest’ characters in the lit crit sense of the word in the book series and I think there’s loads to say about them and lots of different angles to explore. I never feel I have a brilliant grasp of Remus as a writer, but I have so many thoughts about him. I think you could take to some seriously dark places. Finally, Peter. Ah, Peter. I’m not sure I could say I like Peter, but again, I find him interesting. I wrote a long-ass thing about him which I can’t seem to find at the minute, but I think one of the things that I enjoy pondering over are the Neville parallels as I think there are a lot of them, and it’s really fascinating to see how those characters ultimately end up in very different places.

hp themed asks

#marauders #hp themed asks #waffling on

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preserving-ferretbrain · 5 years

Text

The Death of the Reader

by Wardog

Tuesday, 14 August 2007

Wardog joins the Harry Potter free-for-all~

I shall begin, like every other Harry Potter article on Ferretbrain, by saying that Harry Potter 1-3 are above average children's books. They're well edited, tightly plotted, action-packed children's books with just enough depth and darkness to appeal to adults as well but their primary audience is definitely children. The world presented is a child's world in which school is the most important place in the universe and the Headmaster of a school is unquestioned in his role as one of its most politically powerful figures. Defeating evil is, essentially, equivalent or, in fact slightly less important, than winning the house cup. For the first three books, Draco Malfoy - socially powerful bully that he is - has a far greater impact on Harry's world than Voldemort.

From an adult's perspective, of course, this is all complete madness. Why does Voldemort, Dark Lord of the Sith...err..., why does he never go to war during the school holidays? And why does his plan for taking over the galaxy involve becoming Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher. Yes yes, I know, so he can recruit a juvenile army of dark wizards but seriously, aren't there grown up people he'd be better off corrupting? And if somebody told you that your son's Head of English had decided not to be Prime Minister and instead came to work at Scumville Comp, you'd laugh in their face. But the point is, these are children's books and they were marketed as children's books. They're even delightfully short. Books 4 onwards, however, are a very matter indeed.

It can be argued that this has been the point all along and that the power of the later books derives from the brutal overturning of the all sources of adult authority Harry previously thought he could trust - in essence, that the process of growing up must mirror a parallel process that amounts to the loss of innocence. Thus all the people Harry idolised are revealed to be flawed (Sirius, Dumbledore, James, Remus), the people in power turn out to be corrupt (Fudge, Umbridge etc.), places of sanctuary rapidly become places of restriction (Hogwarts, in Book V) and so on. Intelligent readers (aka my friend David) have occasionally tried to argue me out of my frustrations with the later books by claiming that much of my resentment springs from their failure to deliver what I was looking for i.e. a jolly romp with comically named characters and cool magical items.

But, ultimately, attempts to argue for darkness, depth and disillusionment in the Harry Potter universe always ring hollow to me because they never quite fit within the established terms of the books. If a text suddenly demands that you start questioning the assumptions of the world and the characters in it, then the text has to be strong enough to withstand such questioning. As Dan is fond of pointing out, this is one the weaknesses of Season Six Buffy; the show seems to forget, suddenly, that Buffy is a metaphor for growing up and instead asks the viewer to treat her like she's a real person with real concerns such as how she's going to pay the rent on her house. This is not only much less interesting than watching her kick vampire ass it just draws attention to trivia you might otherwise not have questioned, for example if the Watcher's Council has a fund for over the hill watchers, why doesn't it also have a fund so that the Chosen One can get on with saving the world instead of having to get a job in fast food.

In Harry Potter, by asking its readership to start questioning the world established in the first three books, JK again only draws attention to how actually stupid it is when you stop and think about it for a moment. If we're expected to cringe and shudder at Umbridge's methods, are we also meant to question what the hell Dumbledore was doing employing a complete incompetent to teach Divination and didn't the Board of Governors have anything to say about it? I know she made one prophecy once but the fact of the matter is that I can't imagine any of the Hogwarts teachers getting onto a PGCE course without difficulty. And if, in fact, we are meant to view Dumbledore's repeated failures as a headmaster as foreshadowing the fact that he was once a little bit tempted by the pleasures of world domination then it is only fair that we also question why the hell he got the job and wasn't there somebody on the interview panel who thought being a powerful wizard and being a decent headmaster were perhaps not similar skills. Again, Umbridge's "I will not tell lies detention" is genuinely terrifying but the fact she can get away with it leads one to wonder why previous detentions involved jolly romps in the hilarious named forbidden forest full of monsters with an irresponsible half-giant and was that, in fact, any more appropriate.

Perhaps it has as much to with the changing nature of the media, increasing communication between authors and fans, the immense power of the internet to foster fandoms and bring obsessive compulsives together, and Jk's forthcoming, teasing style of interacting with her (vast) public but I think she must be of the most talked to and talked about authors I have ever encountered. And, by encountered you understand, I mean read about on the internet. But it's not like people were chasing James Joyce down the street asking to know about the lanky galoot in the brown mackintosh at Paddy Dingam's funeral and was he, perhaps, Ron from the future. The endless alternate worlds of fandom aside, JK's communicativeness and her public's willingness to listen to her and ask her for her arbitration on matters of no consequence seems to have granted her an unheard of amount of authority in her position, not so much as author, but as creator and even as God.

JK has always encouraged fan speculation but speculation and interpretation are very different indeed. Speculation, like guessing the murderer in an Agatha Christi novel, is an intellectual exercise with a "right" and unquestionable answer. You can't turn round and say "no, Poiret got that wrong, it was actually this guy who did it." Similarly, you can't turn round and say RAB is Rupert Addlepate Bungstock, once the text has established RAB is Regalus A-whatever Black. Speculation can always be controlled and, like a particularly inflexible GM, JK has always carefully directed her audience towards the questions they should be asking of the text. Who is RAB? Why does Petunia flush? What's the deal with the Half-Blood Prince (and was a disappointing deal that was). But, ultimately, the succession of tantalising small mysteries are there to distract the reader's attention from other things they might be thinking about, specifically their own interpretations of the text.

To take an example at random, some time last August, JK and some other less rich, less famous people attended a charity event at Radio City Music Hall in New York. During the course of the evening, an audience member brought up a matter of trivial detail ("Aunt Petunia is said to be oddly flushed when Dumbledore announces that Harry will be returning only once more to Privet Drive") which JK praised as an excellent question. Later Salman Rushdie introduced himself and his family, explaining on behalf on his young son that they did not believe Dumbledore was truly dead, citing quite specific textual "evidence" from the 6th book: "Our theory is that Snape is in fact still a good guy from which it follows that Dumbledore can't really be dead, and that the death is a ruse..." Now, looking specifically at the events of the 6th book this seems at least plausible to me, especially if you decide that Snape's moral hokey-cokey will ultimately put him on the side of the good guys and we know, from book 4, that killing curses require a certain amount of conviction.

I don't actually subscribe to the theory but then I'm not a young child and I don't care if the irritating, sherbet-lemon sucking coot is dead. However, most of the "evidence" that Dumbledore is probably very definitely dead comes from knowledge and assumptions drawn from outside the text. I know, for example, that JK likes to think she's dark and, therefore, she's likely to make a point of death being final. I also know that, even though in these sorts of genres death isn't quite the handicap it used to be in the olden days, having an actual corpse is generally considered proof of lasting deaditude. And, finally, I know that JK is all about her seven book arc and that it is an important part of the hero's journey to lose the mentor figure. It's, like, the rules.

But, as it turns out, the clash of titans represented by Kyra Versus Random Kid, was irrelevant because JK's response was this: "But I see that I need to be a little more explicit... and say that Dumbledore is definitely dead." It's a slightly awkward example because whether Dumbledore is dead or not is very much something that can be true or false within JK's imagined world (it is, essentially, a fact) but until the its veracity has been thoroughly established by the text itself then it is certainly not JK's place to explain, justify and interpret her own books for her readership. I would even go so far as to say that, perhaps for a young child fond of Dumbledore, part of the experience of reading book seven is hoping for a miracle that will bring him back or hat his death was nothing but a clever ploy all along. That very personal experience of hope, resignation and, finally, a sense of loss akin to grief can teach someone far more about death than JK's constant over-written references to the cold, unfeeling stars looking down on the arbitrarily massacred secondary characters lying below them. In fact, one of my (many) frustrations with the final book is that being "definitely dead" didn't in any way prevent Dumbledore turning up an giving one of his interminable plot explanations. Talk about the worst of all possible worlds.

In the flurry of interviews (

this

is a good example) JK has given following the release of the seventh book she has repeatedly been called upon to explain, not only the events of the book but the actions of the characters within it. Does Neville end up with Luna, clamour the fans. Was Snape redeemed? No and yes, replies JK Rowling, saving everybody the trouble of actually having to think about it for a second. I'm not a rabid deconstructionist, I don't believe there is nothing outside the text but I certainly do believe that JK Rowling shouldn't be standing there on the text's doorstep, telling her readers precisely how to interpret and respond to it. In bald terms: it is the writer's job to write. It is the reader's task, and the reader's pleasure, to interpret what is written. If you can dig up enough textual evidence to support a Neville/Luna tendre then it has the potential to be there. Although why you'd want it to be eludes me.

Similarly, in the epilogue of the seventh book, Harry offers us Rowling's final evaluation of the characters of Snape and Dumbledore. Snape is the "bravest man" Harry ever knew and, despite having essentially raised him to be a sacrificial lamb, Dumbledore has been re-instated as a beloved mentor figure. This is not explicitly stated in the text but if Harry had really come to a mature understanding as Dumbledore as a flawed control freak capable of sending a seventeen year old boy to his death he wouldn't be naming his child after him. Readers usually think what protagonists think, it's the way it works, especially in books where there is relatively little deviation from the protagonist's point of view so Harry's attitude to both Snape and Dumbledore in the epilogue becomes a statement of authorial authority.

The rather-late-in-the-day revelation of Dumbledore's moral ambiguity is irritating in a book that should have been concentrating on the final climatic battle between good and evil and love and death. On the other hand if you take it to its logical conclusion, not, in fact, that Dumbledore raised a hero but that Dumbledore deliberately and callously created a martyr then it becomes rather interesting. Or it would be if the epilogue, and the book in general, allowed the reader any such space in which to manoeuvre. Dumbledore is not, actually, open to interpretation because Harry's love and admiration for him remain unchanged, as demonstrated by the fact he named his child Albus. And I don't think at that stage we're meant to be questioning Harry's psychological health.

Snape, also, suffers a fatal loss of complexity. Although the fact that Harry stiles him brave probably suggests he has not entirely forgotten how entirely horrid Snape was to him for seven books but, in JK's world view, being mean and petty and traitorous and selfish is less important than having been in love when you were sixteen. Changing sides because the bad guy suddenly threatens a girl you want to boink is significantly less morally sophisticated than changing sides because you suddenly realise you've joined the Nazis With Superpowers but, regardless, I could tolerate the Snape Loved Lily revelation because, as far as I was concerned, it didn't make Snape one jot more sympathetic. This isn't to say I don't like Snape (he and Gilderoy Lockhart are my two favourite characters) but I have always liked him because he is unattractive and unsympathetic and petty. The disaster at the end The Order of the Phoenix occurs not because Kreacher betrayed Sirius for treating him like shit but because Snape couldn't get over himself for five minutes to teach Harry occulemcy and because Snape always seemed so untrustworthy a spy that Harry dares not trust him to alert the Order when he blurts out his fears about Sirius. However, the idea that love can be selfish is not a possibility in JK Rowling's world and Snape's infatuation with Lily Potter redeems him so completely that even the boy he ruthlessly bullied for seven years is willing to immortalise him in the naming of his children.

JK herself admits that Snape is, basically, kind of horrible (not her words) but she insists that he is brave and, in her rather simplistic worldview, bravery - that irritating Gryffindor virtue - is an attribute so overwhelmingly laudable that it eclipses all others. It is depressing beyond belief that it essentially transforms Snape - the only remotely admirable Slytherin - into a Gryffindor-at-heart. Furthermore, although acting as a double agent for a half-mad, unpredictable mass murdering psychopath is quite brave, it strikes me as being rather less brave to do it because you've been manoeuvred into it for the price of saving someone you happen to fancy. On the other hand, acting as a double agent for a half-mad, unpredictable, mass murdering psychopath because you decide that your conscience can't countenance working for him any more is bloody brave. It's a very personal decision with only nebulous and general benefits, whereas doing it for an individualis directly related to your own desires.

The Harry Potter books are not written to be read in any sense that I would understand it. They're there to be passively received and carefully cross-checked against the author's (externally established) intent. It's like a hundred and fifty years of literary theory never happened. I'm unsurprised that JKR's next work is to be an encyclopaedia because it's obviously what she wanted to be writing all along. I'm not, by any means, saying she's deliberately being sinister and trying to oppress her readership but as the books have progressed there's been an increasing preoccupation in establishing a set of approved readings. An encyclopaedia, even of one relating to an imaginary world, is still a way of introducing sources of absolute truth into something that should be as fluid and incalculable as the differences between my imagination and yours. What astonishes and horrifies me is not that JK is trying to do it but that everyone keen for her to do so.

I think this is the major reason the epilogue of the seventh book offends me as much as it does. I mean, there are others, of course, most related to the fact it stinks. But by establishing her characters, precisely as she wants them, nineteen years on from the events of the book, JK pins them down in perpetuity. I would like to think that the characters went on to pursue lives not entirely and absolutely determined by what they did (and who they did) at school. Oh foolish me. Also it strikes me as particularly low thing to do for a writer who owes so much to her fandom. It's the equivalent of those girly posters on Sirius's wall (he was never even the slightest bit gay ever!); a rather petty attempt to establish enduring canon relationships exactly the way she wants them: Harry and Ginny, Ron and Hermione. And Scorpius and Albus-Severus. Obviously.Themes:

J.K. Rowling

Books

Young Adult / Children

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Wendy B

at 22:02 on 2007-08-15Excellent points. Bravo.

In my opinion, Jo wasted a tremendous opportunity. She should have written the 7th tale from both Harry and Snape's perspective. After six years of a Harry-filtered world, it would have been so illuminating if she had allowed Snape a real voice so we could understand what drove him, besides the fact that his boss offed his fantasy girlfriend. I believe Jo dislikes the character of Snape as she certainly begrudges fandom's interest in him. Instead she gives us a confusing answer to the question of whether Snape was good or evil. Answer: he was good, evil, AND in it for himself. If she hopped off her precious Harry filter and just let go of the narrative misdirection writing techinque (which had limited value in the final book) it could of been a great tale. Instead...blech.

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Arthur B

at 22:23 on 2007-08-15Rowling is never going to give up narrative misdirection. It's her one and only trick, and ever since she was able to steamroller her editors into publishing whatever she writes she's even got sloppy at that. The next two books she's got planned after the Potter encyclopedia - the new children's book and her project for grown-ups - are going to be terrible.

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Wardog

at 10:32 on 2007-08-16Many thanks, Wendy - I think there's my original review knocking around in the archives somewhere, but Dan's is much better because I was still in a weird state of denial that the book was as bad as I suspected it was.

I didn't realise JKR begrudged fandom their interest in Snape; I thought she certainly hated the popularity of Lupin because books 5 onwards are basically a character-assassination piece on the poor guy, which is a shame because I always rather liked Lupin and I thought his flaws (his desperation to be liked, his inability to stand up to his more confident friends, his general sense of divided-identity) were rather cool. I sometimes wonder if interest perhaps peaked when it became impossible in everyone's minds for him to look like anybody other than Alan Rickman :)

But the books have *always* been about Harry so I suspect offering a new perspective and point of view in the final book would be massively jarring, not that I wouldn't have welcomed anything that stage! I think one of the reasons that Snape worked so well was because he was elusive and, therefore, seemed infinitely more complex than JKR actually thought he was. I quite liked the fact he was in love with Lily Potter but I wish he'd been allowed at least one other character trait.

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Wardog

at 10:34 on 2007-08-16Hmmm...Arthur...your reference to narrative misdirection now has me imagining some kind of bastard-monster consisting of bits of JK and bits of Joss Whedon. The pain!

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Arthur B

at 12:32 on 2007-08-16As far as Lupin goes, it's pretty clear to me that he was meant to show up in

Prisoner of Azkaban

, be a red herring ("It's always the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher!"), and go away again. Then the collective howling of fandom when he didn't have a bigger role in book 4 prompted Rowling to drag him out in book 5, only to commence running him down and emphasising his essential irrelevance.

It's strange how the Harry Potter books seem to have been shaped in some places by JK's response to her fans - even when she doesn't give the fans what they want, she ends up doing things precisely

because

it's not what the fans want (witness Sirius's girly posters). It'd be interesting to see how the series would have turned out if Rowling had been completely isolated from the fandom.

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Wardog

at 14:19 on 2007-08-16Dan pointed out a while back that since JKR wrote the prologue eighty years ago (or whatever) and Teddy Lupin is in it, Lupin's arc was probably always pretty much the same. Although I think in interviews she talks about how important it was to her to kill parents so ... who knows the hell is going on? Also, is it me, but do you think he dies at the battle of Hogwarts just so he can show up with the Suicide Club?

But then I suppose books have always been shaped to *some* extent by fans and fan demands - look at Sherlock Holmes.

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Arthur B

at 14:33 on 2007-08-16I'm not convinced that the epilogue we got is, in fact, the epilogue she wrote way back when and put in a safe in case she died before writing book 7 or something, simply because there's a nigh-total lack of exposition: I suspect she scrapped or heavily rewrote the old one since it was no longer necessary.

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lessofthat

at 01:14 on 2007-08-28"What astonishes and horrifies me is not that JK is trying to do it but that everyone keen for her to do so."

You're right to be horrified, but not to be astonished. Look at the screechy, barely sane arguments in the various fandoms about what is and is not canon. Or the existence of Star Trek and Star Wars technical manuals. Fans (I mean the word in the geeky, semi-stalkery sense, not the generic one) don't want literature, they want an alternative universe they can buy maps of.

"bravery[..]is an attribute so overwhelmingly laudable that it eclipses all others"

Susan Sontag said, correctly, that courage was a morally neutral virtue. She was talking about the 9/11 hijackers at the time.

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Wardog

at 15:03 on 2007-08-28I know I shouldn't be astonished but it's necessary for me not degenerating in a pile of embittered, contemptuous goo that I am.

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Whenmarshmallowssnap

at 20:47 on 2007-08-28I didn't appreciate all the 'fluff' Rowling put in that should have been good narrative. I thought most of the Dumbledore backplot was kind useless and didn't really add to the story. Also, it was so unlike for Team Potter (as Dan likes to call them) to sit in a tent twiddling their thumbs, that I wondered vaguely if JK Rowling didn't have anything remotely interesting to write and settled for the trio wasting their time pointlessly. Plus, I fell through so many plot holes, I broke both my ankles.

"...a rather petty attempt to establish enduring canon relationships exactly the way she wants them..." Thank you for that. I did not like the fact that she controlled every single aspect of the characters' lives so that nothing is left to the readers' imagination. I wish Harry ended up with Cho Chang, and became an ex-convict. It would have added spontaneity to an otherwise boring and disappointing finish of the epic (read:really long and ingratiating) Harry Potter series.

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Arthur B

at 14:29 on 2007-10-20Have you seen

this

? Not content to pull the rug out of the "Sirius is gay" crowd, Rowling has now declared that Dumbledore was gay all along, and was dating Grindlewald until that whole "Wizard-Hitler" thing caused them to split up.

Now, let's see what's objectionable about this...

- Author assigning attributes to a character which they never even hinted at during the actual books? Check.

- The one canonical gay relationship in the entire series being a terrible mistake on Dumbledore's part? Check.

- A homosexual, who was previously evil (or at best a collaborator) and in a relationship, is now unquestionably good and rigorously asexual. Implications that gays are better off living a celibate life? Check.

- Rowling jerking the fans around like puppets, and them applauding her for it anyhow like Winston Smith at the end of

1984

knuckling under and loving Big Brother like all the rest of the beaten-down herds?

Check.

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M Harris

at 06:09 on 2007-10-21Also this:

The Potter books in general are a prolonged argument for tolerance, a prolonged plea for an end to bigotry, and I think ti's one of the reasons that some people don't like the books, but I think that's it's a very healthy message to pass on to younger people that you should question authority and you should not assume that the establishment or the press tells you all of the truth.

[Loud applause.]

This entire interview is quite... freaky/weird.

The website it is on is this (I don't know how to make it into a link like Arthur B did):

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/10/20/j-k-rowling-at-carnegie-hall-reveals-dumbledore-is-gay-neville-marries-hannah-abbott-and-scores-more

[Linkified by webmaster]

You might want to read the answer to the question about Nazi parallels.

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M Harris

at 10:30 on 2007-10-21Oh no, I'm reading comments about this on Mugglenet and I want to kill people.

"anyway i think you choose to be gay or straight. i don't think ur born gay. and since ppl. are judged by their actions/choices, i don't think gay ppl. are all that great. don't jump on me now, just sayin wat i think."

"It has to be a joke. The Harry Potter fandom would have been much smaller otherwise. Personally, I would not have read and loved the series if one of the main characters had been gay. What kind of "children's book" would that be? That type of "lifestyle" may be acceptable in Britain, but its not viewed so favorably everywhere (like the entire Southern United States). While there are exceptions here, they are the extreme minority."

And then these idiots:

"JKR is genius! A gay Harry Potter character....wow. That takes true guts. This proves JKR is God. :D"

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Arthur B

at 13:35 on 2007-10-21So, Rowling says

...I think that's it's a very healthy message to pass on to younger people that you should question authority and you should not assume that the establishment or the press tells you all of the truth.

which I agree with, and I think it's a shame that that message doesn't actually come through in Harry Potter. The most frequently-appearing authority figure in the books is Dumbledore, who is basically 100% right all the time. True, he isn't actually massively important in the grand scheme of things, but he's the supreme authority in Harry's world, and it turns out that all of his plans are for the best even when they involve convincing Harry to go get himself killed. The bad guys in the establishment and the press, meanwhile, are always quite obviously bad guys, and Harry usually finds what they have to say objectionable from the get-go.

The lesson seems to be "Trust your instincts: if the person in authority seems nice and trustworthy and is saying things you want to hear, they're probably good. If they seem harsh and unfair and are saying things you don't want to hear, they're bad." That's not exactly a helpful anti-authoritarian message.

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Wardog

at 09:47 on 2007-10-22God, I genuinely tried to rise above this and not think about it. But, no, I'm pissed off. I'm fucking pissed off.

"If I'd known it would make you so happy, I would have announced it years ago!"

If it was in any way relevant or important you should have included in the goddamn books!

I was re-reading my Roland Barthes for school the other day and I found myself asking myself whether he was really still relevant or his conception of the Author-God actually exsisted - and JKR has proven the answer to both questions is a resounding yes. I genuinely can't quite believe this. It's not the way books work. It's not like Dickens turned up at his famous lecturers and started giving extra information about the life of Tiny Tim after the end of A Christmas Carol.

Also Dumbledore's sexuality is completely irrelevant, just like his brief flirtation with nazi-ism is completely irrelevant. He's presented as a 2D mentor figure and all the backplot in th world can't change that.

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Dan H

at 18:54 on 2007-10-23

"JKR is genius! A gay Harry Potter character....wow. That takes true guts. This proves JKR is God. :D"

If the internet hadn't destroyed my faith in humanity many years ago, I'd actually assume that one was a joke.

I find it utterly hilarious the way that JKR's "prolonged argument for tolerance" is so hidebound by her middle-class value-system that she genuinely can't see how - well - completely intolerant it is for, for example, the one canonical homosexual relationship in the entire series to have been a colossal mistake that wound up causing the wizarding equivalent of the second world war.

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Melissa G.

at 18:51 on 2009-12-08This is a really late comment, but I've been HP-obsessed the past few weeks. And I just want to say that what bothered me most about the "plea for tolerance" aspect was actually that she had a slave race that actually enjoyed being slaves and if we took that away from them, they'd turn into sobbing drunks. The idea that slaves like being slaves and they'd have nothing without slavery is so archaic and horrific an idea that it pains me to see it played for laughs with Winky.

#Ferretbrain #J.K. Rowling #Harry Potter #Wardog #Death of the Author

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padfootastic · 1 year

Note

hiii i had a question - how do you think other people saw sirius? like at his time at hogwarts, what was his reputation like? what impression did he give off? and also i feel like there are a lot of parallels between bella and sirius, and so what do you think their similarities and differences are? anyway sorry for the word vomit and the wildly contrasting questions

hello <3 do not worry, friend, here at padfootastic’s blog we specialise in word vomit. ur amongst ur own here ;)

for the first part, i swear my opinion on this has changed so much recently since i started leaning into the cold, arrogant Black heir type characterisation for sirius as well as looking at the black family as a bit more like,,,royalty among the WW type thing ykno?

so i think that all wizard raised kids have at least heard about the black family, mostly as a cautionary tale, almost always in tones of reverent fear/awe, and sometimes incredulously—sirius black, therefore, would’ve come into hogwarts with a lot of expectations/eyes on him. he almost immediately bucks all of it with his gryffindor sorting but people are still wary (bc the WW is so essentialist) so i think that like—lingering hesitance would’ve followed him throughout the 7 years, something sirius would be very conscious of too.

i’m also of the opinion that the black kids all received like,,,etiquette training and pureblood lessons etc etc so they all have a poker face/mask that they use in public as well as being learnt how to control their emotions (think fanon legilimency) and sirius tended to default to that, which ended up making people nervous.

so, basically, he gave off the impression that he was better than everyone else (he was); thought himself superior (lowkey yes but he was working on unlearning that, promise); didn’t care for the general public (absolutely true); and was a bit of a terrifying bastard who never got close enough to most people to dispel rumours/legends ykno?

(and ik i keep banging on this like a dead horse, but i think that most people, including those who knew him, were also a bit wary of his ~dark side bc of his upbringing and family’s actions wrt voldy. like, even remus and peter, on some level had that in the back of their mind. it was only james who never ever held it against him or treated it like an innate part of him/a flaw)

re bella & sirius, whooooo. i’m rly not a bella expert (that’s @narcissa-black-supermacy and i would love to hear ur thoughts on this, dani) but let’s see:

- both of them r very intense, very passionate people. translates into extreme, almost unhealthy loyalty for the people they choose as their own. also makes them very entrenched in & involved with whatever they choose to do- like bella being a death eater, and sirius being a part of the order/harry’s godfather etc etc.

- i think both of them were great at magic, on an intuitive level. like, it’s one thing to work hard at it, but for these, magic was like an extension of their hand, not a tool. this made them terrifying in battles and displays of power bc they just had. so much potential. (duels b/w bella & sirius were also some of the most explosive & entertaining)

- very arrogant, very ‘most people r sheep, and we’re better than them’ (which is almost a Black prerequisite, ik ik) and i can totally see them hanging out just to sneer at people lol

- also this is v random but both bella and sirius lowkey give me aromantic vibes? like, they don’t much care for romance or relationships as much as they do about a cause/person/dynamic, yeah?

for their differences, hm. i actually think those two were much more similar than not (being firstborn heirs) but i really think bella’s morality was way more skewed than sirius’, for one. also think she defaults to magic/violence/physical fights in disagreements whereas sirius prefers using his words. i don’t think i can ever see bellatrix like, slumming it, ykno? she grew up with the finest and she’s very happy to continue using it. sirius, on the other hand, takes it almost as a way to be rebellious and doesn’t mind living minimal & using whatever.

#sirius black #bellatrix lestrange #like most of the sirius characterisation i see has him as this happy go lucky prankster that people r putting up with yeah?#absolutely want to annihilate that image and turn it on its head #even to the extent of becoming unrealistic for a teenager #bc NO. sirius was not *solly* or *goofy* or stupid #silly*#he was incredibly self controlled and disciplined and needed to be coaxed into acting like a fool in public #lowkey basing it on some of the mega rich kids i’ve seen in irl #they have this—poise? that i’ve always really liked?#(and i’m talking specifically ab the generationally wealthy people)#i think i can talk about sirius in hogwarts and his perception at length hahaha #also i haven’t even mentioned james here but that’s a whole other thing #which throws a wrench into people’s opinions of s #bc he’s almost like a different person around j #also it’s so funny how i affectionately call bellatrix bella all the fkn time #have done so right from the beginning #it’s weird bc i really should have disliked her for killing sirius ykno? but i just. can’t. i like her too much #it’s also funny how for all that i saw the WW is essentialist i do the same fucking thing lmao #it was so hard for me to think differences lmao #proves i don’t think about it so much #pen’s asks

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preserving-ferretbrain · 5 years

Text

City of Stupid

by Dan H

Monday, 06 October 2008

Dan "reviews" Cassandra Clare's City of Bones

I'd like to start this review (which like most Ferretbrain reviews will actually be more of an extended ramble and will involve strong spoilers from the outset) by citing a quote from the last page of City of Bones (told you there'd be spoilers) which I think perfectly highlights the problem I have with Urban Fantasy:

"And there it was spread out before her like a carelessly opened jewellery box, this city more populous and more amazing than she had ever imagined: There was the emerald square of central park, where the faerie courts met on midsummer evenings; there were the lights of the clubs and bars downtown, where the vampires danced the nights away at Pandemonium; there the alleys of Chinatown down which the Werewolves slunk at night, their coats reflecting the city's lights. There walked warlocks in all their bat-winged, cat-eyed glory; and here, as they swung out over the river, she saw the darting flash of multicoloured tails under the silvery skin of the water, she shimmer of long, pearl-strewn hair and heard the high, rippling laughter of the mermaids."

Now I freely admit that this is a personal bugbear, but it actually kind of pisses me off that in order for the good Miss Clare to find any sense of wonder in the city of New York she has to imagine that it's full of cheap, derivative White Wolf characters. Repeat after me, Urban Fantasy writers: vampires do not make the world more interesting. Werewolves do not make the world more interesting. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter. Anyway, onto the book. By the way, this gets kind of incoherent. This is because reading City of Bones has actually caused me to suffer physical brain damage.

First Things First: The Harry Potter Connection I really, honestly, didn't want to do this. I spent the first half of the book saying "no, it's just because you know she was from that fandom, just because the villain's got an agenda of racial purity, a name beginning with V, and a secret society backing him up which he started when he was in high school, that doesn't mean it's not still an original work of fiction." Then it turned out that the scruffy, bookish older character, who had a crush on the heroine's mother and while never popular at school had managed to find his way into a clique of popular kids and was very pleased about it was a fucking werewolf. His name is "Lucian," by the way. In short: it's a Harry Potter AU in which Lily married Voldemort and gave birth to Draco and Hermione, while Remus Lupin hung around looking sad. Okay, it doesn't map exactly: the Voldemort-analogue's Death-eater-analogue seems to have started out as more of a Marauders-analogue, and the Dumbledore-analogue appears to have been part of the group as well. There are enough parallels, however that if you're already aware of where the author started off you just can't stop making comparisons. Although Mr Not-Lupin was my breaking point, it's the villain that really strikes me as being a bit similar to a certain well known figure from a certain well known series. His name is Valentine (that's his first name, by the way, his last name is Morgenstern). Everybody starts the book thinking he's dead. Many years ago he started a war which nearly tore apart the Shadowhunter World, and although he was defeated people still fear his return. His rise to power relied on a sinister organisation which he founded at the age of fucking seventeen. Oh, and of course he's dedicated to an agenda of racial purity, and talks about blood all the time. So, yeah. Bit familiar really. And I never thought I'd say this, but the difference between Valentine and Voldemort is that Voldemort actually works (at least until the point where he gets resurrected and starts acting like a muppet). In a children's series set in a boarding school, you can accept the idea that the path to world domination begins in the sixth form. In a Young Adult series set in actual New York you really can't. But that's enough about Why It's A Bit Like Harry Potter, because it really is too easy. Style, Plot and Pacing: Full Tilt to Nowhere It has been said that Drama is real life with the boring bits taken out. This is almost certainly true, for a reasonably strict definition of the "boring bits". Certainly I wouldn't want to watch a drama that was actually, genuinely shot in real time, with hour long scenes of the characters doing housework or playing World of Warcraft (note that 24 in no way counts as "shot in real time," it's just a 24-episode drama series that happens to give its episodes numbers for titles). However it's important to recognise that there are lots of bits which don't count as boring, and which good drama leaves in. Things like establishing character, laying the groundwork for your plot, and having lines of dialogue that aren't fucking one-liners. City of Bones is real life with all the bits that don't involve people being actively awesome taken out. So the dialogue consists entirely of characters exchanging pithy quips or heated emotional outbursts, the action judders from fight to explosion to exposition without passing through anything in the middle. Our esteemed editor gave up on the book on page 63 when she got to the "Jace on the Piano" scene, I very nearly gave up on the book about a hundred pages later when it was revealed that Clary's mother had been married to Valentine. I'm just going to let that paragraph hang there for a bit. Hopefully you're now thinking "hold on Dan, why did you find that so annoying, are you going to explain to us why we should care about this, or are you just going to leave it there with no context or explanation." Which is exactly how I felt about that scene. Valentine, in case you've already forgotten (and to be honest I wouldn't blame you) is the racially motivated villain of Clare's totally original fantasy world. By page one-hundred-and-whatever we know bugger all about the guy except that he's the Designated Villain of this particular secondary creation. He apparently started a (totally original) war a few years ago in an attempt to purge the world of non-humans, and everybody thought he was dead but maybe he isn't dum dum dummmmm! The problem is that the only thing that Valentine has done so far is maybe not be dead and possibly be implicated in abducting Clary's Mother because he's maybe looking for a thing called the Mortal Cup. It's sort of like having the "I Am Your Father" scene in Star Wars take place before the destruction of Alderaan. We find out that Jocelyn (Clary's mother and before you ask, no, nobody in this entire book has a name that isn't stupid) was married to Valentine before we really find out why we should give a shit about either of them (insofar as we ever do). Incidentally our esteemed editor has pointed out that, tellingly, the moment she gave up on the book was the moment that made it bad romance, while the moment I gave up on it was the moment that made it bad fantasy. Make of that what you will. Anyway, the basic plot is that there's this waste of space called Valentine who started a totally original war about sixteen years ago, and who is now looking for a thing called the Mortal Cup because he wants to create an army of Shadowhunters to wipe out the Downworlders (non humans to you and me) and safeguard the world from demons for all time. There's a couple of things I'd like to say about that. Firstly: Bored. So bored. Secondly: Apart from the fact that he's Designated Evil, what exactly is wrong with this plan? Half the Downworlders we meet actually are horrifically dangerous and actually do kill people. It's not unreasonable to suggest that they should be dealt with, and the idea of making more Shadowhunters is actually a really good one. But Valentine is evil so, whatevs. Anyway, in order to safeguard the Mortal Cup from Valentine they for some unfathomable reason have to go on a long CRPG quest where they talk to people, who send them to talk to other people, who help them to unlock Clary's Super Special Self Insert Memories which apparently contain the Key to Everything. After about five chapters of "now you must go here, now you must go here, now you must go to a party with a gay warlock" they finally find out that actually her memories will come back on their own, she just has to give them time, and also the magic feather isn't really magic and it was just her all along. Sorry, I'm actually boring myself writing this. So then there's a filler chapter where they have to rescue one of the supporting cast from vampires and another filler chapter where the vampires are attacked by werewolves and Jace and Clary go flying on a vampire motorbike. Then there's some angst and drama, then they go get the Mortal Cup because Clary realises that she's known where it was all along, but only she has the power to retrieve it because zomg special. Then there is Betrayal! Then there is Exposition! Then eventually the fucking thing ends and I can go back to doing something more interesting like unblocking our waste disposal unit. The final revelation of the book is that not only was Valentine married to Clary's mother but that he was also her father. The book seems to expect me to be surprised at this, but given that her real father was supposed to have died before she was born leaving no personal effects whatsoever or any evidence that he'd ever existed and since, true to form, Shadowhunters never marry Mundanes (because what would somebody who isn't Teh Speshul possibly have to bring to a relationship) anybody with half a brain has already worked out that Clary's father is probably her mother's husband. But! It also turns out that Valentine is Jace's father, having faked both his and Jace's death, and assumed the identity of Michael Wayland (one of his followers, who he killed) in order to evade detection. Then he faked his death a second time and sent Jace to live at the Institute. The institute which is full of photographs of the real Michael Wayland, and of Valentine, which Jace somehow never recognised. This final whammy ends in a classic exchange that goes something like this:

"But, the Wayland ring-" "Ah yes," said Valentine, looking at Jace's hand, where the ring glittered like snake scales. "The ring. Funny isn't it how an M worn upside down resembles a W."

No. No it fucking doesn't, you moron. For a start it's a ring, and rings are fucking circular. You can't wear it "upside down" because people look at your hand from different angles. And what the hell kind of family crest is it that's just the first letter of your freaking surname with no context or decoration? Where the hell did that come from, My First Heraldry Kit? And why didn't the people at the institute, most of whom were your former allies, recognise your family crest? And why didn't you just have him wear the actual insignia of the family you were pretending to be from you stupid, derivative stock villain? In short the plot is stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. The pacing is shot to hell, full of scenes that seemed like a cool idea at the time, or which only exist to showcase some part of the setting. It's full of cheap shortcuts and copouts and unadulterated nonsense. "Characterisation." You Notice I Used Sarcastic Quote Marks There isn't any. I'm really sorry to come back to the fanfic thing again, but the fact is that the only way to get sense of personality from any of the characters in the damned book was to assume that they were their Harry Potter analogues and work from there. That's right guys. This book makes Harry Potter look like a thoughtfully constructed work of character-driven drama. While Voldemort's actions frequently seem at odds with his alleged motivation (if he's so afraid of death, why does he treat his Horcruxes so carelessly, if he cares so little for life, why doesn't he kill the heroes when he gets the chance?) at least I know that he's supposed to have some kind of reason for his actions. Valentine on the other hand just feels like a puppet going through the motions of villainy in order to provide the story with some semblance of direction. Then there's Jace. Who. Never. Says. Anything. That. Isn't. A. One. Liner. And okay, I know that part of the deal is that he's been so terribly hurt that he can't allow himself to have normal feelings which is why his love for Clary is so special but fuck that. "Makes constant wisecracks" is not a psychologically realistic portrayal of an emotionally scarred teenager, it's a cheap bit of sub-Buffy wish fulfilment. Towards the climax of the book they face an honest to god Demon Lord and he actually gives it sass. Look, it really is very simple. Your readers take their cues from your characters. If you show us a scene in which your protagonists fight a Big Scary Demon and they act like it Isn't Scary At All, then we, the readers will assume that the Big Scary Demon is in fact Not Scary At All. If your characters are unimpressed by your world, it doesn't make the character look cool, it makes the world look unimpressive. Those who are following in their textbooks will find this principle outlined in Chapter One under the heading "Show Don't Tell, Dumbass." Let's see, who else is actually in this turd of a novel? There's Alec, who is gay and Isabelle, who is his sister, who wears thigh high boots and carries a whip, and has hair "nearly the precise colour of black ink". Leaving aside the fact that the description makes her sound like the World of Warcraft Succubus her main function in the book is to be theoretically sexy but only enough to make the quiet, unselfconscious beauty of Clary to look special by comparison. Then there's Hodge, who betrays everybody, which would come as more of a shock if I had the slightest grip on his personality beyond "well he's probably a bit like Dumbledore but I don't know really". And that's it. Jesus Christ there are only about eight characters in the entire fucking book, you'd think one of them might have had some semblance of an identity. You would have thought wrong. Unanswered Questions: Who Runs This Idiot World? So, how did Jace not recognise that his father looked like Valentine, and not like the man who was actually supposed to be his father? Why, if the only way to get more Shadowhunters is for them to be born to existing Shadowhunters, or for them to be made with the Mortal Cup (at a terrible risk) why the fuck don't Shadowhunters ever marry Mundanes? Why isn't the Clave doing anything? How did Valentine manage to put together a world-dominating secret conspiracy at the age of seventeen? What's so fucking special about Clary? Why is saving the world being left in the hands of five teenagers? Are there really two more books in this series? Why didn't I do the sensible thing and stop reading on page 114?

Themes: Books, Sci-fi / Fantasy, Young Adult / Children, Cassandra Clare

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Wardog at 16:24 on 2008-10-09

You make me so damn glad I stopped reading at page 63. So. Damn. Glad.

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Wordless at 07:05 on 2009-11-10

I could've realized something when i noticed that the people who positively reviewed the series were a) Stephenie Mayer and b) Cassandra's close friends. To be honest I was a bit suspicious when Holly Black referred to her as "Cassie". but my main issue is this:

Why, if the only way to get more Shadowhunters is for them to be born to existing Shadowhunters, or for them to be made with the Mortal Cup (at a terrible risk) why the fuck don't Shadowhunters ever marry Mundanes?

Are Shadow Hunters...sterile? Obviously not, since Jocelyn had two children and both are successful shadow hunters....noting one even has "special powers" from them doing the nasty. Sooo what's the issue then? I pondered this for a good fat chunk of the book until i came to: "Sure," Jace said "But we haven't had the cup for years now, and a lot of us die young. So our numbers slowly dwindle." "Aren't you, uh..."Clary searched for the right word."reproducing?"....(skin a bunch of irrelevant ramble)"Sure he said."we love reproducing. It's one of our favourite things." okay heres the thing using the shadow cup 20% success rate, doing the old-fashioned ovaries and sperm route-about the same thing.So whats the point? I mean going after valentine would just kill the few shadow hunters they have and so why bother? Apparently seeing as everyone's doing like they do on the discovery channel let him have the cup. but this issue was left abandoned instead pursuing the predictable Jace heritage. in short i was bored and sickened....and confuzled but much later. After my feet stopped cramping.

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Wordless at 07:52 on 2009-11-12

Also the werewolves....*sigh*the werewolves...These are supposed to be human well at least half human. so I don't understand how sentient beings would kill each other for leadership of the pack. Really...that set evolution back at least a hundred years. Aleast. I mean even in the wild though male wolves fight they don't KILL each other...because that would be stupid. okay sure I'm taking some liberties but seriously when i read that i was like WTF.

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Shim at 13:15 on 2009-11-12

Actually, although I agree it seems kind of sad she can't find wonder in the city as it is - to me the most grating thing is that the "wonder" in America is all European. I'm just about willing to buy werewolves (being basically human) and even vampires, although I don't like the modern twist on vampires anyway. But mermaids in the rivers in ANY city? Easily visible? Not flippin' likely given the pollution, tidal barrages and so on you get. However, I'd like to reserve my major anger for the "faerie courts in Central Park". All fey-based mythology I know of has them inhabiting a kind of overlapping reality, usually underground or in magical hills or whatever, and rarely having any contact with humans. There's no reason for them to up sticks en masse and move to America. Especially given that in a world where this stuff is real, America would be quite full enough of the indigenous fantastic races like Baykok or Ishigaq or Kushtaka (all of which I just looked up; what do I know about Native American mythology? still more than CC, apparently). Or does she imagine the Faerie imitated their mortal cousins and had their own little genocide?

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C J Morgan at 17:03 on 2009-11-12

Or does she imagine the Faerie imitated their mortal cousins and had their own little genocide?

Now there is a story I would read. ...or write. *adds to list of ideas*

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Dan H at 23:58 on 2009-11-12

Hi guys, sorry for the lack of commentage, blame NaNoWriMo

okay heres the thing using the shadow cup 20% success rate, doing the old-fashioned ovaries and sperm route-about the same thing.So whats the point?

To be fair, presumably natural born Shadowhunters have about a thirteen year period where they're just kids, so the cup would be a better way to build an army *fast*. Of course Valentine does not in fact *do* this.

#Ferretbrain #The Mortal Instruments #Cassandra Clare #City of Bones #Urban Fantasy #Dan H

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