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eddiezpaghetti · 3 months

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It has come to my attention that SOME OF YOU who read my last Byler post remain UNCONVINCED. So I'm gonna tack onto it this:

I'm older than fucking God and air, and I've been out and proud since 2007. Yes, I know what homophobia is, and yes, I know what queerbaiting is. I know about Supernatural and Teen Wolf and Sherlock and blahdyblahdyblah. No new ground is being covered here. I thought I made that clear in the original post, but, clearly, I did not.

I am aware of queerbaiting and homophobia, and I'm still wholeheartedly certain in Byler being canon anyway.

Okay, so there are three types of relationship I want to discuss when it comes to queerbaiting. They're all, like, "queer relationships that could have happened, but didn't".

First off, queer-coding. This isn't really a thing so much anymore, but it still crops up every once in a while. I'd argue it probably happens most with male-male relationships in family shows these days. First example that comes to mind is Mr. Smiley and Mr. Frowny from Steven Universe. You can't make a relationship canon because some shitty overhead bastard overhead said no, so you get as close as you can without compromising the show. Can't make someone gay? Well, now their comedy routine is a blatant allegory for a romantic relationship. Boom-shaka-laka. This is something I don't see being a problem with regards to Stranger Things, but I want it to be there as contrast, a demonstration of one of many things queerbaiting is not. However, one could argue that, thus far, Will Byers is, canonically, queer-coded. It's pretty fucking heavily implied in the show, and the creators have confirmed it, and you're gonna be able to see it if you're not FUCKING BLIND, but word of god is not technically canon which means that interviews don't technically make something canon, blahdyblahdyblahdyblah, technicalities, Robin has been explicitly stated in the text to be queer while Will has, thus far, not, outside of good ol' Show-Don't-Tell. Of course, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell that that's going to change by the end of Season 5, but, hey, for what it's worth, I'm throwing this out there.

Alrighty, Thingamajingama Number Two: "Oops, I accidentally made the greatest love story known to man." AKA, a genuine, honest-to-goodness mistake. Unfortunately, we do live in a heteronormative society. Sometimes people who don't think about being gay much write a friendship that's incredibly compelling and don't even consider the possibility that it could have been read as romantic. Something something Top Gun something. This is, again, not queerbaiting. This is Steddie, this is Ronance, this is Elmax, this is your favorite flavor of non-canon ship this week, this is not Byler. The creators know DAMN well what they're doing. They've talked about it. We know this. Nothing new here.

Which brings us to the topic of discussion here. Actual queerbaiting. This usually starts out as an "accidental greatest love story", and then reacts to fan response. And when I say "reacts", I mean like a goddamn chemical reaction. Like bleach and ammonia, bitch. It's noxious and it's gonna kick your fucking ass without mercy. This is when a creator is like, "Hey, let's get our queer audience invested, but we're not actually going to give them what they want because our straight audience isn't here for that/we personally think it's gross/we don't give enough of a shit to want to research a goddamn thing to write a real gay character," blah blah blah whatever excuse they want to come up with this time.

And when you think "queerbaiting", I want you to think "bullying". Because that's what it is. It's lucrative bullying, like beating us up and taking our lunch money, but it's bullying all the same. And it's a real goddamn thing, even if people misuse the word a lot, often when they mean one of the two above, sometimes when they mean "bury your gays", which is another homophobic thing entirely that I'm not going to get into here. Queerbaiting is the thing we're focused on, and it's real, and it's bullying. And here's the reason I want you to think of it as bullying:

They

Think

It's

Funny.

They are actively making fun of us.

That's why Dean had the "Cas, get out of my ass," line in Supernatural. It's why the "Do you like boys?" line happened in Teen Wolf. It's why "Lie with me, Watson," happened in the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. Because "It's just a joke, mate." "It was just a prank, bro." "You didn't really think it would happen, did you?" "You should see your face."

So here's probably the biggest reason I don't think it's specifically queerbaiting in this specific instance of Will Byers and Mike Wheeler.

Stranger Things has never, not once, made a gay joke. Ever.

Every single time queerness comes up, it's dead serious.

Lonnie calls Will a fag, and the show is not at all reluctant to show what a goddamn horrible person he is. And when Hopper latches onto that, it's not as "Hahah, is he gay, though?" It's because he's trying to determine a potential motive for Will's disappearance, and even if someone had interpreted it as a joke, Joyce immediately has a line that functions as snapping her fingers in front of the audience's face and yelling "FOCUS" when she says "He's MISSING." Basically outright saying "This isn't funny!"

Troy calls him a fairy, along with targeting Lucas and Dustin for their skin color and disability respectively, and Mike gets damn near murderous. Troy is portrayed as a goddamn monster and the show portrays it as justice when El makes him piss his pants and later breaks his arm.

Steve calls Jonathan "queer" as a slur and gets the shit beat out of him for it.

Billy's father is revealed to be homophobic and abusive in the same breath.

Mike says "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and we're shown how devastated Will is and Mike immediately follows him to beg for forgiveness.

There is a joke in Robin's coming-out scene, but it's not at Robin's expense. It's at Steve's. Specifically for being heteronormative.

Jonathan has multiple scenes where he's trying so hard to tell Will that he's always going to love him as he is, whether he's gay or not, without pressuring him to come out before he's ready.

Even when there's a little bit of ribbing at Robin's expense, it's always because she's an awkward nerd who's nervous around pretty girls, just the same as Lucas and Dustin are teased when they both first develop crushes on Max, and even then, even then, it always comes as a package deal where they make fun of Steve's girl problems at the same time.

Stranger Things is an emphatically pro-gay show. It may not be the core point of the show the way it is in, say, Our Flag Means Death, but there is nothing less than respect for its queer characters. Its queer characters are always taken completely seriously. No one is making fun of us. They never have. That's why I have serious doubts that this is queerbaiting. It would come completely out of left field for the bullying to start in Stranger Things' final season.

So it's not at all likely to be queerbaiting because queerness is taken completely seriously. The creators have talked about Will's queerness, at least, so it's not an accident. And queer-coding would be silly to expect from this show when it's already on its final season. Like, what is Netflix gonna do? Cancel it? Not to mention all the explicit queerness that's in there already. And no one's gonna "What about the children?" a show that's had sex scenes in it since the first season.

There's no fakeout here. It's gonna happen. Breathe.

#byler #Part 2 I fucking guess.#Wasn't planning on making a Part 2 but here we are.#I seriously just want you guys to feel safe.#I'm not naive. I do not say any of this shit lightly.#But I've been around the block long enough to know what queerbaiting looks like and this ain't it. Promise.#Will's already been confirmed as in love with Mike for fuck's sake. You don't think the other half of the equation's gonna follow through?#There has only ever been one other situation where I've gone 'Okay this is going in gay places' with no doubt whatsoever without being told #And that was with Daja in Tamora Pierce's 'Will of the Empress' when I read it at like sixteen or whatever #and she wound up having whole-ass fuckin' gay sex.#I was right then and I'm right now. I swear.

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starry-eyed-steve · 10 months

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What do you have against Ronance? It's clear Robin was attracted to Nancy as well as Vickie. Not only that, she jumped off a boat into monster-water for her, for goodness' sake. It's a bad-faith argument to say that people don't ship Vickie with Robin because she's a bisexual sapphic woman. Greatwise/Will and Gareth is not comparable in the slightest as that is a crack ship that never interacted. We DID have scenes with Robin and Vickie, though few.

And I'm gonna be So For Real, more people would ship Rovickie if Ronance was not there. People would devour those crumbs. But why choose crumbs, when you have a potential meal we spent a whole season with?

Okay, so this is really long, I'm sorry this took way too much time. I know I went a bit overboard. If there are any errors, please ignore lmao. Thank you for sending me an ask for a discussion. I also want to preface that I don't hate Nancy as a character, I don't like how she is written in certain situations and that the show overlooks mistakes she makes, and by pointing out those mistakes on her behalf is not me hating on her. Overall, I think she deserves better than what she is given both in the show and fandom.

First things first, Robin didn't jump into the water for Nancy. It was a delayed response after seeing her best friend being dragged under water. She's not as brave as Nancy. If we would apply the same logic, then Eddie would have jumped for Robin because he's in love with her. So no Robin jumped for Steve and should have been the first to do so, but because that scene was used for Stancy later (Eddie giving the speech to Steve in the woods) it had to be Nancy in that instance. It's really bothering me that this scene is so misread because people just don't get Robin's character. Who would you jump for, your best friend you know better than yourself or the girl you met a day ago?

The whole premise of Ronance (platonic or romantic) in s4 was so ooc for Robin, s3 Robin would have never acted the way like s4 Robin did. And I think that has something to do with what I said in the other post. We don't have enough time. There is no conflict when different groups of people come together because the show needs everyone to get along to save the world, and they couldn't elaborate on complex feelings a person might have towards others. So the show made Robin throw herself at Nancy's feet, despite thinking not too highly about her a season prior. Same with Steddie, the OG script was about how Steve and Eddie didn't get along first but it was cut out because there is no time to proper develop new relationships, even tho it would be more interesting. But again, that would mean the show would have to give us more episodes, which is unfortunately not the case.

So you see, I just don't think Robin would have acted the way she did around Nancy based on the character traits she displayed in s3. Furthermore, I will bring up Steve, which is a sensitive topic when it comes to Ronance. I don't want to come off as someone who in general makes a lesbian/sapphic relationship about a man's feelings, however because Steve has history with both girls I can't ignore him because Robin wouldn't either.

A little bit of background of Robin prior to meeting Nancy:

In s3, Robin couldn't stand Steve, and later, we found out why. It had mostly to do with her crush, Tammy Thompson, who had only eyes for him. Yeah, he was obnoxious, and Robin couldn't stand his smugness and arrogance, but the main reason was Tammy and her being kinda jealous of Steve in general because he had no problems fitting in. So she held on to this grudge against Steve for maybe even years. That tells us she doesn't forget when someone has wronged her and maybe, to an extent, her friends. Like she seems to be a person who has your back, no matter what.

Idk if you consider Rebel Robin as canon (I mean Maya narrated the podcast soo I mostly view it that way) but before Barb was Nancy's bff, she was close with Robin and later ditched her for Nancy. That in itself would leave a bad taste in Robin's mouth, and I guess she wouldn't be Nancy's biggest fan. Maybe that's why the priss comment in s3. Again, she had no problem disliking Steve because her crush liked him, but then she does an 180 with Nancy despite Barb being her actual friend leaving her for Nancy. Losing a friend to another person is much worse than a crush you never talked to, not liking you back or liking someone else.

But even if you ignore the Barb stuff and don't think it's canon, Robin still wouldn't be Nancy's biggest fan in the beginning and that has something to do with how Stancy ended and Jancy begun. You have to keep in mind Steve is Robin's bff, one if not the most important person in her life. He's everything to her she trusts him completely. He was maybe even the first person to know she was gay. Then why on earth would Robin A try to befriend Nancy, who broke his heart, and B trying to push her without a thought to get together with him again. It doesn't make any sense to me, based on how Robin was introduced.

Steve may have not any hard feelings for Nancy, maybe he only said positive things about her to Robin because he still views himself as the only person who fucked up in that relationship and not that Nancy was already in love with Jonathan for a while before things ended. Idk where you stand on the whole cheating thing, but it doesn't matter because rumors outside of the relationship would spread. Steve, the most popular guy in school, who is well liked, got left by his girlfriend of 1 year for the school freak, not even 2 days after a public fight. Like people would go crazy and Robin would have heard those rumors as well. You have to admit getting together with a new guy, not even after 48h is, I don't want to say weird, but not very cool, okay? Plus, Tommy would spread extra nasty shit because he hates Nancy and Jonathan and wants to hurt Steve as well. Robin would view her through those rumors, plus Steve having a hard time letting go, being heartbroken about it, there is no doubt in my mind that she wouldn't side eye Nancy.

Those two reasons, Barb and how Stancy ended, are the main ones as to why I think Robin was ooc for desperately wanting to befriend Nancy.

So the way I would have built up Ronance would be Robin being aloof towards her, and Nancy would have been the one who wanted to befriend her in the first place. Nancy never has to work for her relationships with others. People usually make the first move with her, so she never has to give much thought to it. Like Steve still loves her, Jonathan was ready to follow her wherever even if it endangered his family, and Fred followed her around like a lost puppy as well. And with Robin, it could have gone differently. Nancy should have made it her mission to make it up to Robin. Like she desperately wants a friend, she doesn't understand why Robin is being cold to her. By making her the instigator, Nancy would have to reflect on her mistakes and how she treated people, which would finally give her some personal character growth. Plus, it would have made the introduction to Stancy (romantic or platonic) way smoother and more balanced because Nancy never reflected on it. Steve's just available she doesn't have to make it up to him as well. Nancy never really addresses her faults in relationships, and the narrative in Stranger Things lets her off the hook every time. Letting Steve believe he was a terrible boyfriend despite liking Jonathan instead of him? No problem, no consequences. Steve still likes her. In s3 the show was again on her side when she fought with Jonathan by giving her the Karen pep talk, yes she apologized to him but she didn't understand his struggles really because she gave him the don't ever doubt me comment which kinda destroyed her apology imo. Furthermore, as soon as there was a rough patch in s4 with Jonathan, she expected him to come to her instead of going to him and fixing it because she has the financial means to do so, which indicates she still doesn't fully understand Jonathan's financial problems. Also, in general, Jonathan is terrified to tell her the truth, so he gets high to cope. It doesn't seem that he thinks Nancy is understanding.

Again, Robin could have been the person that would have made her realize wait, the way I take people for granted, and sometimes treat is wrong. Instead, we got yet another person instantly liking her and going along with everything she does, so Nancy never had to do anything for it, despite the obvious conflicts that should have arisen when they first met. But like I said before, the show doesn't have much time and focuses more on the plot, so there is no real development for characters, and everyone has to get along. I also think Stranger Things wanted a strong girl duo like Elmax, so they just threw Ronance together without conflict because they wanted to avoid drama, which would take up too much screentime. I can't emphasize the fact that Stranger Things suffers so much because it has too much plot and not enough time. Plus, I believe making Robin angry at Nancy on Steve's behalf would mean acknowledging that Stancy ended in a bad way or that Jancy maybe didn't have this cute start as a romance, but that would also mean recognizing Steve might have not been the only one who was wrong which is simply not possible. When s2 aired and people pointed out hey did Nancy cheat on Steve, did they really break up because a lot of people didn't view the fight in the ally as a break, especially because Nancy mentions she likes Steve at Murray's and Steve went to her house, the Duffers had to confirm it via interviews because I doubt they thought people would sympathize with Steve. Hence, why the narrative only blames him because they wanted the audience root for Jancy.

Long story short, I would have switched roles for platonic Ronance in the show. When it comes to romantic Ronance, that's mostly on the fandom. Everyone is allowed to ship whatever, I personally just don't think they are a good match. I don't see Nancy being patient enough with Robin's neurodivergent ways. She wouldn't handle her rambling over time very well. Nancy gets quickly irrated and snaps. Like Robin already felt the need to explain herself to her, making sure everything is okay because Nancy made her feel like her personality is too much and has faults, like her mom constantly tells her. Whereas with Vickie, she felt immediately at ease when they talked. More of that later. Robin is also poor, maybe a bit better off than Jonathan, but still, Nancy already doesn't get Jonathan's problems. Another reason is that because Steve is Robin's bff, Robin wouldn't want to date her all together. Like she sees Steve still likes her, she knows how much Nancy hurt him to a point that he is serial dating because he has like trust issues, that would immediately turn her off. Robin values Steve's friendship way too much than try to jeopardize it in any way. It's not like Steve wouldn't allow her to date Nancy, I think he would do everything to make Robin happy even if it costs his own happiness. Robin knows Steve. She would know that he would be hurt, and that's ultimately the factor that turns her off. Maya already confirmed that Robin values platonic relationships so much, so yeah. Just think about it that way. How would Robin feel if Steve suddenly would show interest in Vickie and starts dating her? That would be kinda fucked, same goes for Ronance, Robin knows Steve still likes her. I'm also a believer that you shouldn't necessarily date your bffs ex, it's just too messy especially if that relationship ended rather badly.

@findafight had this amazing post about one-sided Ronance, where they described exactly what I'm trying to convey. Nancy is the one interested, but ultimately, Robin declines because of her relationship to Steve. They also have several other posts about Ronance if you want to check it out. Another blog that discusses Ronance and has similar opinions is @thestobingirlie

What I dislike the most is that in Ronance, mostly Robin is only an ounce of her typical character. Her relationship with Steve is downplayed. She makes fun of him with Nancy, she lies to him about her relationship, even asks for sex advice in some fics which is just very weird and so ooc for her to do. Same goes for Steddie, as soon as either Steve or Robin go into a relationship both characters are so ooc, you almost don't recognize them, plus they only have time for their partners and their friendship gets sidelined, which again doesn't make sense for their characters. Ronance is also mostly beneficial to Nancy as it's viewed more how Robin can save her so she doesn't have to end up with a man. Hence, all the posts about how Robin is the only person who gets her, which is also such a shitty thing to say because both Jonathan and Steve were trying. Like Nancy's character development hinges more on her relationship with Robin than doing some soul-searching. Because for real, all her relationships so far are kinda meh because she doesn't know how to communicate properly with her partners, Robin wouldn't magically make everything better because she's a girl. Nancy needs to be single first and discover who she is without jumping in a new relationship. She needs therapy and has to work on her people skills to be a better partner for future relationships.

Also, so many people want Nancy to have a friend, and when Robin comes along, they immediately make it romantic. Robin can still be there for Nancy and understand her as a friend. I don't think she was romantically interested in Nancy in the show. She was actively pushing for Stancy. She only ever talked about being into Vickie romantically. Robin should be allowed to make a friend who is a girl without making it into a romance just because she is a lesbian. Lesbians can have platonic girl friends, lol. Fact is that so many see Robin interacting with a girl as romantic because she is looking at her and then ignore her real crush she talks about all the time.

Now to Rovickie and Vickie. What I meant with people not giving Vickie a chance because she's a girl and interested in a sapphic relationship is a common occurrence throughout fandoms in general. Guys are usually preferred when talking about characters or shipping. Girls have it so much harder. Like with Gareth, I don't think my comparison of him and Vickie was nonsensical or dumb. The fandom had no problems coming up with interesting headcanons for him, even outside the crackship. Almost all the hellfire boys, but especially Gareth because he's the most objectively attractive one of the group, got more love from the fandom. Vickie, on the other hand, is mostly used as the villain in Ronance fics, who is in the way of the main ship. People in general call her boring or too similar to Robin, which is insane because we have one scene where she rambles because she is talking to her potential crush. Also, being similar doesn't have to mean it's bad. Like I mentioned earlier, Vickie rambling is showing Robin it's okay to do so, which makes her feel immediately relaxed because she doesn't have to explain herself to Vickie. Not to mention the biphobia that runs through fandoms. The fact that Vickie had a boyfriend, who she broke up with, was enough. People usually headcanon Nancy as a lesbian than making her bi. Steve's only a bi icon when he's shipped with guys, like him dating a girl is seen as less valued or popular. Again, everyone can headcanon characters sexuality how they like, you do you it's just apparent that characters who are seen as bi are only celebrated for dating a person of the same sex.

Lastly, think about it if Vickie was a guy who was the love interest for Steve, there would be non-stop content for her. She would be well loved within the fandom. But Vickie is a girl, and if she were used as the love interest for Steve instead of Robin, she would also face the same scrutiny the already faces now. She's the villain in the way of ships because she's only a side character and not the full meal like you described. A male characters even with almost no screentime, will always get better treatment than female characters.

#robin buckley #nancy wheeler #anti ronance #steve harrington #stobin #platonic stobin #vickie stranger things #rovickie #rockie #stranger things #sandra says stuff #anon #anonymous #answered

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lesbiannancytruther · 1 year

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no but hear me out:

i want robin to kiss a girl in season 5 so badly and no matter who it is, in the end of the day i will take it because she needs a gf already BUT

it has to be nancy. like it has to be. it's not that i dislike vickie or anything but i just (i better not get canceled for that one) feel like her character was kind of poorly written? no hate to the actress at all, but to me it just felt like they copy-pasted robin's entire personality and turned it into a new character?? i don't know maybe that's just me? robin deserves a complex character by her side (nancy god damn wheeler) and i am dying on that hill. nancy is and has always been such a complex character and giving her a girlfriend would only EMPHASIZE this complexity. from s1 one until now nancy has been captured in this love triangle and it is pretty clear that she never felt fully understood in neither of those relationships. like she always had to prove herself you know what i mean? with both steve and jonathan. now guess what? she never had to prove herself around robin. ROBIN EVEN PUT HER IN CHARGE HELLO??

and robin...well the way she rambled around nancy?? the way she looked down when she saw the way nancy was looking at steve?? the way she called for nancy when she went after steve?? the way they held hands??? they both deserve each other so much. i could literally talk about this for HOURS oh my god. the ronance hyperfixation is going strong!

hello anon i understand u so strongly, and im sorry this took me so long to get to! i promise it wasn't intentional!

i will forever be on the train that even if vickie was done better than she was, she will always be a character introduced to give the lesbian character a love interest, she was doomed to this position from the start because she had no other real purpose! rockie will always feel inorganic because vickie is nothing beyond a love interest for robin.

this is. such a common problem, ESPECIALLY in wlw ships, and that's why i love ronance. nancy wheeler is immune to this phenomenon because she and robin were both created independently and with different purposes, and their stories come together so well its actually insane

nancy wheeler is one of those characters that is so hard to understand if you don't look at her through a queer lens, or at the very least an anti-misogynist one. i think the best thing the duffers could do for her is finish the arc she started in season 1, which is focused on self-realization and discovery.

the entire show she has been told who she is, what she should do, who she likes, who she loves, by everyone! it is never nancy who says these things, it is other characters telling her, even barb, even robin. how insane would it be if she came to the conclusion on her own that she liked women? or at the very least had looked at her own feelings not through the lens of someone who didn't understand her or the situation they were talking about.

robin falls into these same patterns, but the more she gets to know nancy, the more she really understands her, the more she backs off on those kinds of comments and the more she uplifts nancy's voice. there is SO MUCH POTENTIAL in them and the fact that it will more likely than not be ignored is so. agonizing. please duffer brothers see the vision

#stranger things #nancy wheeler #robin buckley #ronance #anon #anti rockie

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endlessdreamerxoxo · 2 years

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"Stop this War"

I will try to be nice with this post, but I really dislike people telling Hellcheer shippers to stop this war with st*ddies in the name of peace and harmony. Although, I do like the sentiment. I really do. I just can't be quiet about the bold harassment and the unnecessary toxicity against something I like and people I admire for their creativity. And I really do question whether those people truly understand the fundamental problem that Hellcheer shippers have with toxic st*ddies and the scope of the situation in general.

I'm checking the A03 tags as I write this post up and currently

we (Hellcheer) have 956 works on the website.

Steddie have 7,013 works on the website.

And Harringrove (a ship that has been around since 2017) has 8,415 works on the website.

For a better comparison, that means that Steddie has exactly 1,402 fics to go to meet the cumulative effort of 5 years hard work in a less than 3 months since the official creation of the ship. That's utterly insane. And if we did that math again, Steddie has 6,057 more fics than Hellcheer. That's the fucking scope that we are dealing with.

Their ship is the Lusitania, while our ship is a rowboat.

Many of us have always say this over and over, we were minding our business for a good solid week or two (I came around June 9th into the tumblr fandom) before claims were being made about Chrissy's age. Personally I didn't even know that people were shipping Steve x Eddie (cause they have no chemistry in my eyes) because no one was talking about them in the 'edssy' tags and I don't have twitter. People were just making fanart and other things to celebrate our cute ship. So I literally discovered Steddie's existence as we got called out for p*dophilia (which is not the correct term, but go off) and homophobia. From my viewpoint, we got dragged into a shipping war against our will as we kicked and screamed at the the top of our lungs that we didn't want a war. I know for my "Joe Quinn was Right" posts, I danced around my actual feelings to preserve peace and minimize hate. I know a lot of my mutuals did that and continue to do that with those who are stalking their accounts and sending them threats. We have been vocal about not caring whether someone ships St*ddie or Hellcheer. Nevertheless, we are also been very clear to point the obvious flaws in shipping Steddie and or their sketchy behavior, while acting as holy than thou than the rest of the fandom:

The misogynistic harassment of Grace (and Amybeth).

The biphobia and bi erasure.

The fetishization of attractive white gay men.

The constant whining for some or better wIw rep in Ronance, but than ignoring the canonical lesbian ship of Rockie in the show or failing to give Ronance the same amount of love as your mIm ship.

Only making Chrissy a lesbian because they want her away from Eddie under the guise of allyship.

The stealing of lines from other scenes or characters in order to make their ship more cute and fluffy.

The mass reporting of Hellcheer artwork.

The invalidation of people's queer identities/sexualities because they ship a heterosexual ship (or a straight passing if they see it that way).

The obsessive nature that people have formed a parasocial bond with Joe Quinn to the point where they are assuming his sexuality, stalking his family's social media for pics where he was a minor for some twisted reason, and harassing him on his family vacation.

Like we can't bring up those facts because we don't want a shipping war? We didn't even bring up those fact until recently because we have been poked for a entire two months straight. Grace literally thought her safety was in danger, going to an con because her friend was attending the same event. Are you really telling us not to say anything? Are you telling them to mind their own business and go to their corner of their internet with their 7,013 fics and their shit ton of fanart? Because the reality is this extremely tiny Hellcheer squad can't stop this war. Even if we decided not to call people out and did our own thing, people would still be harassed and made to feel like crap about themselves for liking this ship. Even if Joe came out tomorrow and say stop this war, toxic St*ddies would think that Grace is holding him hostage at knife point. St*ddies are the only one who can stop this war, but they wouldn't until they get Steve x Eddie as canon (which they will never have). We are truly just trying to defend ourselves and just want to be left alone.

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strangertheories · 9 months

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the biggest reason I don't rlly like romantic ronance is because I don't really ship nancy with anyone - I am a firm believer in Single Nancy Supremacy! I think that the two romantic relationships we see her have (with steve and with jonathan) both struggled because of her grief in relation to barb - its much clearer with her relationship to steve as it literally breaks down as a result of her grief and guilt and that idea of faking happiness, and I think that may also be the case with her relationship with jonathan as well, and we know that she's been questioning things about the relationship and hiding that she feels unfulfilled, though in her eyes she feels like she wants steve, but i think she just remembers how easy things were with steve before all the upside-downy stuff and wants to go back to how things were back then. I feel as though she struggles in those relationships because the type of companionship she is searching for is the easy, comfortable, platonic love and closeness she had with barb back then, and its clearly a huge part of her character arc, since losing barb is what caused her to become actively involved in all the upside-downy stuff and piqued her interest in journalism through her work with murray (alongside her clear desire for solving mysteries and the like). what nancy needs right now isn't a romantic relationship, but a platonic female friendship, a connection that is not fueled by anything sexual at all - hence my stance as a Platonic ronance truther!! we already see the closeness and trust the two of them have with each other as they scheme to break in to see victor creel and as they work together later on, and I think that kind of platonic connection between two women will be wonderful for the both of them, and robin as well deserves a platonic friendship that isn't just with the guy people keep thinking she's in love with. I really hope the show does take it that way, especially since platonic relationships have played such a key role throughout the show (the party's dedication to each other (excluding byler and their romantic love for each other but thats a whole other thing), dustin's relationships with steve and eddie, platonic stobin ofc, jonathan and argyles friendship (this one is so important to me as well as robin and nancy because of how dedicated they are to each other), and especially the friendship between el and max (I could write a whole nother essay about that tbh)) and I think it would be a wonderful ending for both robin and nancy to find that friendship with each other!!

This is completely fair and valid, plus a good analysis. For me personally, I prefer Ronance to single Nancy. Firstly because I just like their dynamic being 80s sapphic enemies/rivals to lovers. Secondly, I think Robin dating an established character is easier writing wise cause the show adds too many people and has less time to flesh out Vickie because of it. However, I also like it because of Nancy's character arc.

I think her character is very male centric and the writers seem to abandon her life goals to push her into the box of being Steve's suburban wife or in other words, her canon worst nightmare. Despite being the badass feminist character, she feels so focused around men and Steve and it's really odd to me. Especially how weirdly confrontational she was to Robin because she assumed she was dating Steve. They broke up two years ago and Nancy never even loved him, it's so odd.

Anyways to circle back to my point, I like the idea of Nancy's ending not being her settling down with Steve. I'm very anti-St4ncy if you can't tell. I'm less opposed to Jonathan and Nancy but even then, she's still at risk of falling into her nightmare with him. I think this is part of the reason why single Nancy is good and canon wise, I think that's her best outcome.

However, Nancy says right from the start that she wants to truly rebel. She dates Steve as an act of rebellion but because she's rebelling in the way everyone else does, it's ultimately a way for her to safely fit in and tell herself she's doing something radical as Jonathan points out. She hides her true feelings because whilst she knows she won't be satisfied by the life she's heading towards, she's scared to do anything otherwise.

I think 80s badass sapphic feminist Nancy dating a woman would both act as her embracing her true feelings and rebelling away from the trap of being a suburban housewife that her mother fell into. Single Nancy can work for that too, but I think having Nancy canonically like girls would perfectly fit into her framework of actually truly rebelling against expectations instead of seeking safety in a boy she tried to force herself to love.

I think these two opinions can coexist but that's just why I think romantic Ronance is great for Nancy. I do agree that platonic relationships would be good for her, but I also think that this relationship romantically would work with her character arc too. Thanks for the ask!

#ronance #anti jancy #anti stancy #nancy wheeler

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seashoresprite · 9 days

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Ronance for the ship ask game

cute / adorable / perfect / sexy

Ronance! One of the serendipitous ships of s4!

So, look. I don't think Ronance will ever become canon in terms of being a romantic relationship. That said, I'm kind of in love with Maya Hawke's headcanon for s5:

"I think I would love to have a powerful love story with Nancy Wheeler, who then chooses Steve instead of me, and then I die - killing myself, sacrificing myself to the monster, protecting them and their love, so they can go on and be happy. And I fall into the pit of doom."

Now, I will be CRUSHED if Robin dies. I really want her to survive. And I'm also tired of the gay characters being the ones who die. But in case she does leave us, I would love some iteration of this in s5.

Nancy and Robin are so funny because they are almost polar opposites on the surface. Nancy is poised and serious, and Robin is free-spirited and almost certainly ADHD (autistic-coded, even). As we know, though, both girls possess a rich, beautiful inner layer, and I think that's what bonds them. Nancy isn't really the "priss" Robin thought she was, and Robin isn't the silly, empty-headed fool that Nancy may have assumed her to be on the surface. Plus, as much as Nancy denied it, I'm sure there was some slight jealousy going on in terms of Steve. Once Robin and Steve clarified, however, it becomes clear that Robin starts to grow on Nancy. I think because Robin really has a gigantic heart, and Nancy values that in people. And, when it comes down to it, Nancy has a big heart too.

I absolutely adore them as a ship. But I also wish Rovickie the most happiness. Who will Nancy choose - Jonathan or Steve? Who cares. As long as Nancy's happy. She can be happy without either of them if she chooses.

#stranger things #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #ronance

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scoupsahoy · 1 year

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so i, like most people, pretty much subscribe to the bisexual steve harrington and bisexual nancy wheeler cinematic universes and all that and i've never really had any conflicting thoughts about it

but i was thinking about it this morning and i'm having gay thoughts and i just wanted to pitch them as a lesbian projecting my experiences onto these guys

specifically steve and nancy are so interesting when thinking about this because - partly because they dated - their fanon identities are SO popular and pretty rigid that it's almost accepted as canon. and i dont want to step on that at all but i do want to explore it...

i'm gonna go back and forth but we're gonna dip our toe in with steve.

the thing about him is that basically since season 1 he's been - not queer coded - but definitely immediately latched onto by both fandom and the actors as queer in some way. the guy who played tommy hagan apparently played tommy as harboring feelings for steve, same with dacre as billy, and the way ostensibly one of the only popular ships in the first couple of years or so was stoncy. so like there's this groundwork there which is admittedly impacted by the fact that joe is like. an attractive white adult man. obviously.

but i'm sitting here as a lesbian also really drawn to steve for a lot of reasons but particularly because i see a lot of myself in him? i'm running with something here okay -

season 1 steve is head over heels for nancy. that's, like, undeniable, and honestly the main reason people think he's attracted to women at all but !

he's practiced. he knows what to say to girls. and everyone tells him he's barking up the wrong tree. nancy is too smart for him and honestly super uncomfortable when tied to him. she's playing hard to get, that's his favorite game. she sleeps with him, sure, but she doesn't tell anyone about it, she doesn't like how affectionate he is all the way up to season 2, is honestly incapable of saying she loves him. he's heartbroken by that, but he's not surprised. he's spent a lot of time basically trying to force this pretty little box to close tightly and it bursts open in his hands. and he's upset even though he knew it wouldn't all fit.

there's this through-line with nancy that she's being misunderstood all the time and she resents it, that she knows what she wants and makes it clear to herself but nobody can read her well enough to figure it out. and steve is part of that. she's vaguely uncomfortable with him and his affection and how much he loves her and honestly deeply resents him for not being able to see her and her priorities.

for nancy, she's with steve because he's nice and funny and attractive and he's who she should want to be with. he makes her feel good and gives her butterflies and whatever but it's not really steve she likes, is it? she likes that steve likes her and fights for her and respects her and shows her love and for a year she convinces herself that that's what love is!!

but it's not. of course it's not. she didn't love steve and she doesn't even really know she doesn't until he asks her to say it. and she can't. she didn't know she was lying until she was confronted with it and it's deeply sad for steve but it's also deeply sad for her.

maybe this is just me projecting as someone who was "boy crazy" through middle and high school, but the person you have tricked yourself into thinking you loved noticing that you don't, won't, can't love them, feels like shit. you want to prove them wrong. you want to prove yourself wrong.

because nancy is different than steve. after barb dies, she is no longer friendly with like. any girls. at all. honestly until season 4 when ronance started to get popular she was probably most often headcanoned as this badass straight girl or whatever, which is fine obviously, but also maybe by design?

her best friend is a lesbian (overwhelmingly in fanon) and after she dies she only interacts with men until robin. boys understand her and she wants to prove to them that she's tough and they like her, she's the queen of hawkins high or whatever fred benson says to her.

like. immediately after she ends things with steve, she's with jonathan, because he likes her a lot and he sees her more clearly than steve did and she thinks: okay this is what i needed, this one is right, it's better, it's good

come season 3, she's frustrated again because jonathan doesnt really understand her the way she wants to be understood. but they love each other! she wants to make this work! she's the most driven person she knows, she is determined and stubborn and after everything, there's no reason she shouldn't want to be with jonathan. so they make it work and it's good. all patched up.

brief look back at steve: hitting on women and completely striking out this entire season. it's comical actually. it's actually embarrassing how bad he strikes out, it's like his spark is gone, like he's not even trying! he hardly has the time, anyway, with the kids and work and the upside down. all that.

and then, after some pressing with dustin, he falls for robin. like falls for her. and she's totally different from nancy, because nancy wasn't emotionally available, nancy would never have been able to love him, he's come to terms with that. but robin?

oh she's a lesbian.

season 4. steve is going on dates with girls he doesn't like, who don't like him, who he's not even interested in. robin points it out: you have no idea what you want. which is true. he's very easily swayed. he falls fast and hard but it's never good, he wants something REAL. robin knows exactly what she wants. if only they could combine...

enter nancy wheeler. getting slow-motion broken up with by her boyfriend, too busy to care. boys love her, by the way, she's sought-after, but she has a good excuse. she has a boyfriend that lives far away. she doesnt know why he doesn't come to visit her, but she's also not really interested in coming to visit him either. they're at a stalemate. and it's perfect. she gets to live her life free of romance because she technically already has a boyfriend who loves her very much.

and then her and steve are thrown back together again, and they're so different from how they used to be after less than a year and a half. they've grown and they. woah, they want completely different things. he wants six kids and she thinks that's a nightmare. she doesn't want to be like her mom, doesn't want some big nuclear family, and the problems she and steve had haven't gone away, but she still flirts with him. she thinks it's fun. it doesn't mean anything. she's with jonathan now.

and everyone is up both of their asses like: oh my god nancy and steve need to get back together, they lost each other along the way, they were destined to be together.

but really. steve couldn't be going after someone less interested in him if he tried, with nancy. not with robin or the girls he goes on dates with. he's so positive he likes girls, and these girls never ever like him back (and when they do... he's painfully disinterested), and he doesn't consider why he keeps crawling back to something so unattainable on purpose. over and over again.

and nancy, really is only chasing the opposite of what other people expect from her. she doesn't want to be her mom. she doesnt want to be with steve. she doesnt want to be with jonathan. but thats what everyone thinks she wants. and the worst part is that she doesn't really know what she wants! because this is what she knows she's supposed to want! she's got to be with some man if she's going to get anywhere she wants in life. but god, it is never about the men at all.

im just sitting here holding steve harrington by the face, like: please examine why you are exclusively interested in women that want nothing to do with you. examine why you're so determined to make things work with people you know it will not work with.

and i'm sitting here holding nancy wheeler by the face, like: please examine why you are exclusively interested in men only when they've expressed romantic interest in you first. examine why you're so determined to stay in relationships that you're unhappy in for way past their expiration date. because being pursued feels worse.

i'm just saying that all the crushes i had when i was in high school ended up coming out as gay after graduation or were otherwise extremely disinterested. and every guy i did date had to literally corner me in a hallway to ask me out before the last day of school or something so i wouldnt literally run away from them.

#steve harrington #nancy wheeler #stranger things #meta #mine #gay steve harrington #lesbian nancy wheeler #feel free to disagree this is just my brainworms

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truessences · 2 years

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My Opinions on the Stranger Things Ships

No one asked me of course but we all share opinions that no one asked for lol. So I'll be sharing my quick thoughts on ships that I see people mention. Everyone's opinions are valid I just may not agree and you don't have to agree with me. I said what I said and I will not be arguing about it.

I'm not going to be rude to anyone and if you are rude while sharing your opinions, I will block you. Simple.

This isn't in any particular order except going from adults-teens-main party.

Adults

Jopper (Joyce and Hopper) - They're fine lol. I like them. In the first season, I don't think I thought much about it. It wasn't really until maybe season 3 but I thought Hopper was being really yelly and mean. But her thinking he died and then their reunion in S4 was really sweet. Them kissing and all that, I was like yeah, I think this is a natural progression.

Older Teens

Stancy (Steve and Nancy)- I thought they were okay early on except for when he got mad without talking to her and letting his friends slut shame her publicly. But I think them breaking up was a natural progression because Nancy and Jonathan had chemistry and it seemed like they were gonna lead into that anyway. In S4, they're really trying to push on us that they might be thinking of each other, Steve particularly, especially since Eddie was like blatantly telling him that that's true love lol. I don't think they need to get back together.

Jancy (Jonathan and Nancy)- I like them fine. What he did in S1 was creepy and personally I can't say I'd even talk to him after that. But they did kind of trauma bond so sure I guess. I don't mind them. But at this point, if they break up, Nancy needs to just go off to college and be bad ass. I know Hawkins is basically split open but whose to say that stuff will happen now or that Vecna will wait while he heals (maybe Eddie can return?? *Cries*). I think there should be a time jump anyway, so if that's the case, Nancy should be single. Maybe she met some other young man while in college.

Vobin? Ribickie? (Robin and Vickie)- I wish we got to see more of them interacting but I want Robin to get her girl lol. Their scene at the end of S4 was cute and I hope that if Vicky/Vickie shows up again that they're together. Maybe not publicly but for each other, together. Or I want Robin to be with someone she loves and loves her.

Ronance/Steddie (Robin and Nancy/Steve and Eddie)- These are fan ships. I personally didn't read them as couples and it's fine if you did. For Robin and Nancy, I liked that they seemed to become friends after that bit of major awkwardness in the beginning. Nancy hasn't had a close girl friend since Barb was murdered (that she still feels guilty about and I even thought that Nancy might be feeling super protective of Robin and Max) and Robin may not have many friends in general. So that's what I was thinking. As for Steve and Eddie, meh lol, I'm not the biggest Steve fan so... I'm indifferent but idk if I think that Eddie would be with Steve if he chose to date a guy. Some of the fan comics are really cute though. The one where Eddie works at the renaissance fair is cute lol.

Hellcheer/Edissy (Eddie and Chrissy)- They were cute and I'm mad we didn't get more of them. Joe and Grace had natural chemistry and that scene in the forest was a masterclass at introducing new characters to fall in love with in 3 minutes. I was unsure about both of them, Eddie more than Chrissy but that scene made me like them both. I was distraught with her death and then with his later (also for other reasons). I feel like if they got to live, they would have became easy friends. Even if it wasn't romantic, which I'm fine with that too, I just wanted them to have more scenes together.

The Main Party.

Byler (Will and Mike)- So I’m not gonna touch on this too much for the sake of arguments. At this point, it's clear that Will has feelings for Mike but there hasn’t been anything to me that shows that Mike knows or feels the same. I think a lot of posts for this ship have been extremely dishonest and manipulative of scenes and situations. I think it’s weird. You don’t need to do that for your ship. You see something that others don’t and that’s fine but I find that the people become the problem with this ship than the ship itself. You don't have to make it seem like Will reacted to Mike telling Eleven that his life started the day he found her in the woods when that screenshot wasn't from that part AND Will disappeared the day before. That's dishonest. Also seems to me that y'all want Mike to say and do the things he does for El for Will but are mad when he does it for El and say that he's lying to her? Wouldn't that be fucked up that he's lying to El, with his acts of service, with his clear emotions because he suddenly decides that he loved Will all this time? That's fucked up to me. That's all.

ElMax (Eleven and Max)- I've only seen this a few times and I think it's cute when people talk about it lol, but I also view this as a friendship. They became friends in S3 and while we don't really know if they contacted each other much during the time between S3 and S4, I think they love for each other is there and I love that in their party of boys, they have each other to lean on. Even if I found Max to be annoying and overbearing in S3.

Dusuzie? (Dustin and Suzie)- We haven't seen them interact in person but I think they're so sweet. The Neverending Story sequence is easily Top 10. I like that Dustin found someone who is just as smart and nerdy as he is but they're both cool in their own right. I hope in S5 that we get to see them actually be together more.

Lumax (Lucas and Max)- I've liked them enough as they grew closer in S2. I thought it was clear pretty early that Max was gonna choose Lucas. While we didn't get to see them be boyfriend and girlfriend that much in S3, what we did see was cute and funny. The first episode was great stuff with them. In S4, we get a more serious and emotional Lumax and while they're not together, you can tell that Lucas still cares for her and that's she's trying not to show she cares. This is shown in Dear Billy and how he doesn't leave her side from then on (sounds familiar hmm *glances at Mileven*). He saved her knowing her favorite song and then to tell her that he also loves Kate Bush now for saving her... top tier boyfriend material. Then in the finale episode, just the way he's trying to protect her but also allow her to try and go through with her plan. Ugh, it's just so good. Caleb and Sadie also have so much chemistry. I watch interviews with them and they just work really well together. I really hope that if Max wakes up in S5 (since they didn't kill her the way I think they just should have), that she and Lucas get to talk and grow together and if it's a time jump like I want, that they'll either be together or still be close. If they officially break up again, I think it'll still be a very good and amicable break up. But otherwise, top tier couple.

Mileven (Mike and Eleven)- I really could go on and on but I'll try not to. They have been our main couple and our main characters since S1. I know Mike has been sidelined a lot and I don't like it but that doesn't negate that he's technically the lead boy on the show. Anyway, they met each other the first time and Mike immediately was taken with her, this is clear when the camera panned from Eleven to the boys and then zoomed in on Mike's face. It was clear to me at least. Love at first sight even if it had to develop over time. Mike goes into caregiver mode and literally does everything he can to keep her safe and make her comfortable. He shows her his toys and everything lol. In S2, this boy called her every day because he was sure she didn't die and it was his plan to lure the demodogs so that Eleven and Hopper could get in to close the gate. Now in S3, he's afraid of losing her, afraid of being apart from her and yeah they totally get too attached at the hip which was something they had to learn (though let's not forget that Hopper threatened him leading to the decisions he makes in the beginning). But he's attentive to her regardless and he's trying to be so protective because while everyone is okay and pushing her to find the Flayed, he's the only one worried about her pushing herself too hard, "I love her and I can't lose her again!" Like come on. He was always the first into action, when Billy attacks Eleven, he goes in with a pipe (while everyone else just stood there), and then later when the Mind Flayer attacked them in the cabin, he was the first one to try and save El when it grabbed her leg. He even ran at Billy when he attacked, Max, Mike and Eleven in the mall. Then one of my fave scenes is the one in the store when he's trying to tell her that he loves her but he's babbling and can't get out (this is a character trait as he did the same thing in S1 and then later in S4 in the pizza place). He reassured Eleven that her powers will come back at some point. Then this boy spends the entire S4 dealing with his own insecurities which we FINALLY get to see him talk about with someone (but ya know he's actually lying and talking about Will)... then we get his confession and regardless if you found it cheesy or not, I felt that shit and so did he and Eleven. At this point, whether or not they last as adults, they are endgame for the show.

But these are just my thoughts on the ships I see people talk about. I'm not gonna argue about them either. I'm too old for that shit lol.

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prettybillycore · 2 years

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Updated Requesting Information <3

Rules for Requesting:

Please only request through my ask box

Be clear about what you are looking for.

Please be kind to me. This may seem silly to have to put in the rules, but my asks are a nasty place. It gives me anxiety to look in there because I have gotten many rude comments over the years, I'm autistic and trying my best.

You are welcome to request something for a character/ship you don’t see below, but I may decline to write your request. Please respect my right to decline your request.

I will not: sexualize minors (characters who are minors, big yuck), write incest, or anything with noncon, etc.

I will: write x readers, write ships and polycules, write imagines, oneshots, and twoshots; write in third person and write in second person; almost smut (I am asexual, but I love the k!nk community. So while I don't typically write full out smut, things can get spicy).

I am happy to write hurt/comfort or comfort fluff about traumatic experiences, but please please please don't trauma dump in my asks and if you want me to write on a more triggering topic (depression, death, medications, addiction, alcoholism, etc) please put a TW before the content so I am prepared.

If you would like to be added to a taglist:

Please request to be added to a series or fandom taglist by going to my ask box!

Please be kind if I take a while to respond to you/I am slow to update the series that you’re reading. I’m trying my best! and I am currently fixated on stranger things, so requests outside of that may take me a little bit longer!

Here are the fandoms/characters/ships I will write for:

Stranger Things

Characters (x reader)

Steve Harrington

Billy Hargrove

Eddie Munson

Robin Buckley

Nancy Wheeler

Polycules

Steve Harrington x Reader x Billy Hargrove

Steve Harrington x Reader x Eddie Munson

Eddie Munson x Reader x Billy Hargrove

Robin Buckley x Reader x Nancy Wheeler

Eddie Munson x Steve Harrington x Billy Hargrove

Eddie Munson x Steve Harrington x Billy Hargrove x Reader

Ships

Harringrove (Steve Harrington x Billy Hargrove)

Steddie (Steve Harrington x Eddie Munson)

Ronance (Robin Buckley x Nancy Wheeler)

Star Wars

Characters (x reader)

Kylo Ren

Poe Dameron

Polycules

Kylo Ren x Reader x Hux

Ships

Stormpilot (Poe Dameron x Finn)

Detroit: Become Human

Characters (x reader)

Connor RK800

Markus RK200

Nines RK900

Polycules

RK800 x Reader x RK200

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Characters (x reader)

Bucky Barnes

Peter Parker

Loki Laufeyson

Thor Odinson

Natasha Romanoff

Polycules

Bucky Barnes x Reader x Loki Laufeyson

Bucky Barnes x Reader x Steve Rogers

Ships

Stucky (Steve Rogers x Bucky Barnes)

Criminal Minds

Characters (x reader)

Spencer Reid

Penelope Garcia

Supernatural

Characters (x reader)

Dean Winchester

Garth Fitzgerald

Benny Lafitte

Gabriel

Charlie Bradbury

Bobby Singer (only as a father figure)

Polycules

Dean Winchester x Reader x Benny Laffite

Ships

Destiel (Dean Winchester x Castiel)

Dean Winchester x Benny Laffite

NCIS

Characters (x reader)

Abby Sciuto

Tony DiNozzo

Timothy McGee

Leeroy Jethro Gibbs (only as a father figure)

Donald “Ducky” Mallard (only as a father figure)

Haikyuu!!

Characters (x reader)

Tooru Oikawa

Tobio Kageyama

Kuroo Tetsuro

Kuzume Kenma

Tsukishima Kei

Nishinoya Yu

Ships

Oikawa x Iwazumi

Kageyama x Hinata

Happy Requesting! :)

crossovers between these fandoms are allowed !

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queerxqueen · 2 years

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I know this isn’t a question but I just dont get why people call us rude things about us shipping Mike and Will..like let us be ourselves, and there are so much hints that will loves Mike and Mike is confused.

Yeah it's so bizarre for people to hate on shippers for seeing characters with clear chemistry and wanting them to be together. We're literally just consuming a show and enjoying content how we want to.

I feel like the reason Byler specifically gets so much hate is because it ISN'T just a fun ship where we think the characters are cute - it is a serious, real possibility, in canon, with years and seasons of content to back up the ship in the canon narrative. I love Steddie and Ronance, but they don't get the same hate Bylers do because Bylers dare to believe it could be canon--because the show shows us that it is a possibility.

I don't know that they're intimidated necessarily, moreso just offended at the idea that us queer folk could possibly imagine having multiple queer characters in happy relationships. It's the homophobia, really.

#byler #antimileven #evaafruity #answered

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dallasbyersclub · 2 years

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tbh not loving the way ronance is being portrayed in the fandom rn. i see it especially when contrasted to steddie in those quirky like ~steddie vs ronance dynamics!~ look how sweet and wholesome ronance is vs the combative but sexy steddie! heres the thing: you can interpret their relationships however you want, and there isn't a right or wrong way really. it's just worrying that the overwhelming majority of this fandom has the above interpretation, considering the stereotype of wlw ships being cute and wholesome and sexless and pure! which isn't.... i mean it isn't really how any relationship is because every relationship has tension but i hope i don't have to spell out why it's harmful when it's specifically applied to wlw. on the same note, stereotyping mlm couples as couples who fight or are aggressive towards each other but in a ~sexy~ way is harmful and gross too.

and i want to make it clear that interpreting these relationships that way is not inherently bad!! that may very well be perfectly representative of that couple's dynamic! but if we look at the way many of ronance's interactions consist of nancy being annoyed/arguing with robin while maybe being a little jealous of her (or maybe jealous of steve hmm) while pretty much all of steddie's interactions-post their initial meeting- are not only cordial but actively supportive? like they are both kind to each other and look out for each other and there's not really any bickering so. interesting how homogenous the fandom has become with their takes on these respective dynamics. i don't think it's too much to ask for people to examine that.

#stranger things #steddie #ronance #steve x eddie #robin x nancy #steve harrington #eddie munson #robin buckley #nancy wheeler #st4 #stranger things 4 #stranger things fandom #fruity four #stranger things critical #txt #long post #stranger things lgbt #mine

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lesbianrobin · 2 years

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Just wanted to say I completely agree with your stance on ronance. I don't get why the ST fandom gets so vitriolic over people having different opinions on ships at all.

Do you have a ship for Robin that you like? (The options are limited, I know)

yes i actually really like robin and vickie!! even though we only got a couple of scenes i think they had great chemistry and they have enough in common to really get along well but they have clear differences in personality and style that make vickie feel like her own person and not just like a copy-pasted robin yknow? they're rly cute together and i like the idea of robin getting to have like a sweet normal teen romance free of all the upside down shit :)

#asks

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will80sbyers · 2 years

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Ok. So I know this take is super controversial: but I have beef with all popularized ships that are nowhere near the realm of set up by the show and potentially canon. Byclair, Elmax, Steddie, Ronance, Wheelclair, Hopclair, etc. are all fine ships on their own and some of them have really great dynamics even. They’re great for fanfiction and for fun drawings. If that’s what fandom is to people, then good for them. But I care about what’s actually real on the show and being taken seriously by others, what actually will be canon. And the truth is, Byler is the only one being set up by the show with real evidence. So when people try to say Byler is equivalent to Byclair, they’re wrong, because it’s not. People already call us delusional; don’t give them more ammunition. I’m not against the ships themselves, I’m against the equivalence. It’s especially bad when milkvans ship byclair as a way to avoid accepting Mike’s love for Will

I don't think that many people are saying that in the show they are setting up these ships, personally I don't see a problem with anyone shipping them even if they are doing it to go against byler because the writers are going to follow the narrative in a logical way, they are not going to make ships canon without building them up and we know that Byler is being constructed and it has been since season 1 so I don't know why it would be giving them "ammunition" if I say that I like the idea of these ships too???

I'm not worried at all about them doing "fanservice" because from what I've heard in the podcast the Duffers will follow what makes sense in the story, they will not suddenly make Lucas in love with Will because they built Lumax and they showed how strong Will's love for Mike is... same thing about the other ships, some are shipped because the actors flirted on screen on purpose so there is something to latch on but they were never equivalent to how byler is constructed in the narrative and that's just a fact and it will be clear in the end of the show...

but the people that don't want to take seriously byler will never do it even if you don't ship byclair... so who cares what they think or do online? I personally don't

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #ask

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fandsart · 1 year

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If you still write Ronance in your fic bc it's popular and you don't really want to do it despite tagging, I think it would be still a great opportunity to go through but make it realistically and not gloss over the fact that everyone would just be happy and supportive. I would rather read that than any other fics where all characters involved are just a shallow version of themselves to fit into a dynamic

I want to make it clear that I didn't decide to include it specifically to pull people in when I realized it was popular, but the fact that it was popular had me looking at all these artworks and gifs for it and posts talking about their similarities. The fanon interpretation is really cute, but that's not how I've come to realize it would play out in canon upon the rewatch. I understand my initial wording was simplistic.

And yes, that's exactly what I plan on doing. When I said it was annoying I had to add the arc I really just meant it's annoying that I have to figure out how to insert it into the timeline when I already have so much happening and how last minute these additions are, but I already have the character development all thought up and in order. Even before the rewatch I had a big issue with the idea of Robin getting together after Nancy cheated on Steve, so really early on (and before the rewatch that made me reconsider the ship) I put canon divergent stuff in place so that never happened.

I honestly kind of wish I kept it now that I'm giving her this whole character arc that could have been an addition to, but that chapter is already posted. Even if I wasn't giving her this arc specifically to make way for the ship it's probably good to give her the arc anyways, I just didn't realize I'd have to at the time.

But the changes I made really only took away from the opportunity to cheat, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't have done it. With all the starry eyes she gave Steve in season 4 I feel like she was willing to do it again, so I might be able to bring that up somehow. She's a very impulsive person, always working on her instincts, but that includes the instincts of her emotions, which I think is what lead to the cheating.

Although I gave Jonathan some development regarding having learned his lesson from taking those photos in season 1 and also his relationship with Steve, so I don't think Jonathan at that point in my story would have betrayed Steve by sleeping with Nancy, but I could have written her making moves on him and him telling Steve about it. Then we can have Nancy making moves on Steve in season 4 and then that be a part of the arc, but too late I guess.

I really want to rant about how I'm going about the character development, but I don't want to give spoilers :(

And yeah, when I first started looking into ronance and liking it, I saw a few fics where Robin started developing a crush on nancy and feeling guilty because she's Steve's ex, but then Steve being like 'no, I just want you to be happy' I thought it was all cute and really liked that trope, but now it's like... it's not about her being his ex. She hurt him and he would be super scared for Robin that the same would happen to her. Especially when we see how terribly her relationship with Jonathan is going right now. Nancy isn't good at emotional regulation, and we actually see a few times, characters (realizing it or not) walking on egg shells around her because she's worried they'll blow up at them. Wording things very carefully so it doesn't turn into an argument, or trying to settle down an already existing but unnecessary argument.

#I didn't realize how much I had to say on this topic #I honestly had way more to say but it would make this thing so long and deviate from the original ask #anon ask #answered asks #stranger things #20 chain links #fandsart

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