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deanwasalwaysbi · 3 years

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Thinking About How This Wasn't Actually a Denial

But was it self preservation?

The year was 2013 and rather than a denial, Jensen said "Don't ruin it for everybody now."

What was the fan 'ruining' for everybody? The Con? or something else? So if I was a tinhatter - and sometimes I am - I might think about other tv shows from the past that were covertly queer and how they handled the question, were TV shows 'out'?

Mainstream shows like Bewitched, you know, shows that are so clearly straight, you can tell because... well. ... they never technically used the word 'gay'. ... witches honor

SPN Film Studies is Back in Session! Join Under the Cut for more on supernatural & the story about how Bewitched! came out of the Broom Closet

Bewitched aired from 1964-72, it's so old the first season was in B&W. The show starred Elizabeth Montgomery as Samantha, the strange housewife with a stranger secret. Her husband, Darrin, unwittingly married into the whole witchy family, from the now drag icon Agnes Moorehead's Endora with her open marriage, to the unmarried and batty Aunt Clara (Marion Lorne who played the mother in Hitchcock's heavily gay coded 'Strangers on a Train'), to the extremely coded Uncle Arthur (gay actor Paul Lynde). (We can't know for sure, but it seems at least 4 members of the cast were gay themselves.) The core premise of the show involves Samantha balancing who she really is with repressing that self for the safety and comfort of her family.

Samantha and her husband keep her [ahem] 'queer' nature a secret which gets harder on Samantha when she has to tell her daughter to live the same way, “I know what fun it is to be a part of the magical life ... to have so much at your fingertips. But we’re living in a world that’s just not ready for people like us, and I’m afraid they may never be. So you’re going to have to learn when you can use your witchcraft and when you can’t.”

There are plenty of generic 60s wacky hijinks but there are also whole episodes metaphorically about repression being harmful, episodes where characters asked if another was a 'thespian', episodes where Darrin was queercoded while under a spell, episodes about representation & bad stereotyping in media, and even two episodes where witches discussed whether it was time for witches to come out to the mortals, (whether mortals could accept that they were just nice normal people trying to live their lives like everybody else - or not - and would just freak out and kill them again).

When it came time to recast Dick York's Darrin with a new 2nd lead, Elizabeth and her husband, William Asher, knowingly cast the gay Dick Sergeant. (Although he wasn't out publicly at the time.) Then, when Sergeant came out in '91, Montgomery supported him and the two served together as the grand marshals of the Hollywood pride parade.

Dick Sargent expressed in the 90s what he would want in a Bewitched reunion episode: for Darrin to meet another like couple, a witch and a mortal who are married, and another, and another, and end up forming a whole community and support group, finding out that it was never so uncommon after all, that it was actually "about 10% of the population." The two would march in the first mortals and witches pride parade, saying they should have come out years ago.

In '94, Montgomery had this to say about the queer themes of the show, “Don't think that didn't enter our minds at the time. We talked about it on the set, that this was about people not being allowed to be what they really are. If you think about it, Bewitched is about repression in general and all the frustration and trouble it can cause. It was a neat message to get across to people at that time in a subtle way.” (x)

Interviewer: Are you concerned that your involvement in the gay-pride parade will lead people to believe you're a lesbian?

"[Laughing] I'm really not worried about that. There are bigger things to worry about. Like the presidential election and finding a cure for AIDS. I did the parade in support of Dick. I mean, in the end, didn't we all?" (x) (Montgomery was also one of the first celebrity allies to fight for LGBTQ rights and support HIV/AIDS-related fundraisers.)

So did they talk about it at the time? No. You can bet they didn't speak about it publicly. What would have happened if a fan, publicly, had asked Elizabeth, William, or Dick about the show's queer allegory content? This was a time when being gay was a literal felony. They would have had to have lied or risked losing the show, their careers, and possibly subjecting themselves to violence.

Now. back to Jensen and the Schrodinger's long con:

This was in 2013 - The same year that the Supreme Court of the United States struck down a federal ban on gay marriage. You certainly couldn't call homosexuality illegal in the US at that time. It's the same year that Dabb and Sgriccia spoke about the Aaron moment on the DVD and whether there's 'this potential for love in all places' for Dean. Of course Jensen said this about the very same scene: "But it was - you know - it was comedy. It was a comedic moment in the show and fortunately Dean gets a lot of the comedic moments in the show and it was just, you know, Ben was poking fun at the fact that - you know, how can we make this very kind of manly, heterosexual guy uncomfortable - uh -you know, or or have him back on his heels and throw him off his game a little bit.”

I'm reminded of 2012 when Ben Edlund stepped in about a Destiel question at comic con, pretending it was some freaky thing that fans had made up even though he'd already written and directed TMWWBK, which had already aired.

Jensen: “What’s Destiel?” Ben Edlund: That’s some weird shit. Jensen: Is this something that you created, Ben? Ben: You don’t want any part of that.

Or the next year for season 9 when Jensen said “I think the whole Cas and Dean thing has gotten out of hand” “I don’t think there’s anything secret to their relationship even though a lot of people wish there was” EVEN THOUGH- that season we got the nightstands acknowledgement and Misha (or both of them?) was told to “play him like a jilted lover”

Or Jensen's knowing bromance smile in 2015

I think recent events (cough spn gate) have made clear that the network and many viewers were still uncomfortable with CAS being gay in 2020, deleting even familial mentions of Cas from the finale episodes once he was revealed to be not only gay but also in love with Dean. (x) (x) (x) Can you imagine then what Warner Brothers would have said to an acknowledge bisexual Dean Winchester in 2013? Granted, there was no Trump election, but legitimate, could that have been the end of the show? Or the Russian and Conservative US viewership? Is it possible that Jensen would have feared so?

Is it possible that Jensen had a more personal reason for a knee jerk defensive response?

So was Jensen covering in 2013? Well. This happened 5 years later in 2018:

That hostile "? No." came even though Misha confirmed that he and Jensen had discussed Destiel by that point. Granted, discussing Destiel as a concept and accepting Dean being inherently bisexual are two very different things - Cas is GN after all - still, less than encouraging.

I may never get over the jumps back and forth that Jensen did. At this point I think there's no denying that a lot of SPN's queer content was on purpose, even as writers and actors were telling fans and network execs otherwise. Yet when each person involved was brought in? that question haunts me at night. I have gone off before about the timeline in my pursuit of whether Jensen was Ben Hur'd (x) and, if so, for how long. I'm sure many in this fandom have so much to add.

In the meantime we'll just have to cherish this moment from 2019:

Interviewer: 'So, tell us just a little bit about what you’re most excited to tackle with your character this final season.’ Jensen: “Cas. Just like a full football form tackle.”

Bewitched references in SPN:

2.05 - Dean: Well, it looks like he can't work his mojo just by twitching his nose, he's gotta use verbal commands.

2.20 - Dean says Barbara Eden was hotter than Elizabeth Montgomery - sigh - Dean.

7.05 - Dean thinks a husband has no idea his wife is a witch, and refers to him as Darrin. Dean also indicates he likes the first Darrin better. - (I guess I can't make a comment about how much TV Dean watched as a kid if I get all of his references and also haven't saved the world.)

14.03 - Jules refers to the witch as 'Brunhilde' - this is a minor character in bewitched but more so from mythology and likely referred to the cartoon witch from WB cartoons - the stereotypical witch that faced bugs bunny with the green skin and straw hair.

let me know if you have any to add. Stay Witchy ✌

#jensen ackles #jackles long con #dean was always bi #spn film studies #spn queercoding #Spn tinhatting #ben hur treatment #bewitched #queercoding #Caslighting #Spn gaslighting #elizabeth montgomery #dick sargent #paul lynde #original content #Marion Lorne #Marion Lorne was also in a show called the gay adventure in 1932 but i dont have any information on the plot #and to quote misha. it's probably gay like happy #Schrodinger's long con

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glittergradient · 3 years

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some thoughts on the bury your gays trope, supernatural/the 100 vs. the haunting of bly manor

I saw this tweet and, in light of the whole Supernatural fiasco and subsequent social media uproar, I feel like sharing some thoughts.

Firstly, I want to say I agree with this post. I don’t believe that all queer characters have to have perfect happy endings all the time; not all queer character deaths fall in the 'bury your gays' trope regardless of context. I believe, in fact, that context makes all the difference between a satisfying ending and a harmful one. I can't say I am a big fan of tragic stories (personal preference), however I am capable of appreciating the tragic element when it's done in a way that feels meaningful and true to the story, when the tragedy adds something to the narrative instead of taking away from it.

And this is exactly where I believe The Haunting of Bly Manor succeeded, while Supernatural and The 100 failed. (more below the cut)

While I agree with the op’s original point, they then go on to talk about Lexa's death in The 100 and how, in their opinion, Lexa sacrificing herself to save Clarke in the City of Light was the most poignant way her story could have ended. And I understand where they’re coming from, but the thing is, that's not how Lexa actually died. By the time that happened, she was already dead, only her consciousness was still alive in the Flame. Lexa died because of a flying bullet that wasn't even meant for her, not during a fight, not as a sacrifice, but because of an accident. She was arguably one of the most compelling characters in the show, the surface of her potential had barely been scratched, and yet she was killed off to deliver some cheap shock twist at the end of an episode. The context also matters. Lexa’s death happened right after she and Clarke were finally able to act on their feelings for each other; right when their story seemed to be starting, abruptly and pointlessly it ended.

There is a difference, a striking difference, between Lexa's death and Dani's death in The Haunting of Bly Manor.

Dani, also a lesbian character in love with another woman, dying at the end of her story, after several years of happiness and commitment, as the culmination of a beautifully told tragic tale of love, loss, memory, trauma and sacrifice, is NOT the same as Lexa dying because of a flying bullet in a rushed and dismissive cheap plot twist.

As for Supernatural, I found Castiel's death to be executed more tastefully than Lexa’s. His death is not the issue per se, in my opinion. If it existed in a vacuum, it could be accepted as an emotionally fulfilling ending, as the poignant culmination of a 12-year-long character arc, a moment of self-actualization that feels true and meaningful to his story. However, once again, context matters.

It matters, because Supernatural is a show where 'nothing ever stays dead'. Cas himself had come back from the dead multiple times. The idea that he couldn't come back the one time he died right after being canonically established as queer doesn't feel right and inevitably reeks of the 'bury your gays' trope. It matters, because Cas actually was resurrected, but he was never shown again, he was barely even mentioned or mourned in the final two episodes of the show he'd been a fundamental part of for 12 years. Even his resurrection was only implied, rather than explicitly confirmed, by a passing comment made by a guest star, minimizing the importance of the revelation itself. If you got distracted for about 5 seconds while watching the finale, you might have missed the fact that one of the most important characters had been resurrected (off screen).

Castiel didn't just die, he was erased. He was canonically established as queer and then, at once, erased from the narrative. Of all the times he died, this was the only one where his best friends, his family, weren't even allowed to show emotion and sorrow over his demise. The long-overdue highly emotional love confession he delivered in his final moments to his best friend of over a decade remained unanswered and unaddressed, as if it never happened.

The Haunting of Bly Manor succeeds where The 100 and Supernatural fail, because it does justice to its characters, to their story and to their love. Dani's death does not fall under the 'bury your gays' trope because her final sacrifice actually enriches the narrative of what is, at its core, a tragic romance. It's sad, it's heartbreaking, but as a viewer, you don't come out of the experience feeling like the characters you've come to care about were done wrong, like they were wrongfully erased from a narrative that refused to accommodate them. Dani's death doesn't represent the end of her and Jamie's story, but an inherently fundamental part of it, something that adds depth and nuance to an organic narrative of tragedy and romance, the two main elements the fabric of the story is made of. Unlike Lexa, Dani is not stripped of the possibility to live her truth and her love as soon as such a possibility is presented to her. Unlike Castiel, her final sacrifice doesn't erase her memory, instead sublimating it.

It is possible to write tragic endings for queer characters that still feel emotionally fulfilling in spite of their tragedy, or even because of it, endings that do not erase queer voices, but honor the complexities of their stories. But this is not what The 100 and Supernatural did: Lexa being allowed to act on her love for Clarke, finding peace in it, only to be killed moments later; and Castiel being allowed to speak his truth, finding happiness in vocalizing his love for Dean, only to be erased from the narrative right after, are not and could never be satisfying conclusions to queer narratives.

#supernatural #destiel #the haunting of bly manor #the 100 #clexa #dani clayton #lexa kom trikru #castiel #spn #thobm #dani x jamie #giada talks

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itsclydebitches · 3 years

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Please, when you get the time, watch “Unpacking RWBY's 'Fair Game' Queerbaiting Controversy”.

Thanks for tuning me into this, anon! I decided to watch instead of going to bed at a decent hour because why would I want a good sleep schedule? XD

Great vid though. For anyone looking for a neat summary of both the in-text coding and the fandom's reaction to everything, this is a good, easily digestible hour to get all that. Something that struck me and that I wanted to expand on a little bit is acknowledging the malleable nature of our terms like "queerbaiting" and "bury your gays." "Queerbaiting" evolved during a time when many characters' queerness was being kept to coding and coding alone. That was the point. The possibility of that being a confirmed part of their identity was never on the table, generating our frustration, yes, but also making it pretty easy to spot and define this phenomenon. We knew queerbaiting when we saw it. Yet as queer rep has progressed, by inches as opposed to miles, the use of that term gets... messier. Supernatural is, currently, the perfect example of this. Is it still queerbaiting if one half of the pairing admits their attraction, but the other never responds? And if we're uncertain about the authenticity of the queer rep, can it really be bury your gays? Bury your gays is (mostly) built on explicit queer rep. You can't bury your gay character unless you've got one to begin with, yet situations like Dean/Cas blur both lines. Back when we developed these terms, we weren't imagining situations where creators would go part of the way and then pull back. Queerbaiting made sense a decade ago. They coded their characters, maybe talked up the relationship in a joking manner, but there was never any chance of it coming to fruition. We know how to be mad about that. But one character coming out while the other watches him die and then seems entirely unfazed by his passing only to then die too? In the finale? What the hell do we make of that?

These are the confusing, murky waters that Fair Game is swimming through. It has received accusations of both queerbaiting and bury your gays, yet according to generalized knowledge of the definitions, they can't both exist. You either didn't provide queer representation, or you had queer representation to kill off. And yet, Fair Game does manage to edge into both territories, with the added complications of the media hype and ongoing debates about the status of Blake/Yang. If Blake bashfully looking away at Yang's compliment equals queer rep - and a very large chunk of the fandom considers the coding we've gotten thus far to be "canon" - then it should mean the same thing when Qrow looks bashfully away at Clover's comment. Either that coding is enough to signal queer representation and RWBY thus killed off a queer character in the form of Clover, or it's not enough to signal queer representation (you're reading into things) and the Blake/Yang dynamic remains in a state of potential queerbaiting. It's a lose-lose any way you slice it, yet anger tends to turn more towards other members of the RWBY community for using the "wrong" terminology rather than simply expecting better of the creators. No one should be having years-long debates over how queer or not two characters appear on screen. At this point we should just have queer characters, no guesswork needed.

Frankly, I don't think there is an easy way to fix the miscommunication going on here, so I suppose my only point right now is to be aware of it. These terms have never had rigid definitions - "queerbaiting," as the vid's author points out, is particularly complicated, but "bury your gays" runs into problems with canons that deal with the afterlife and resurrection. If Penny were to have been written as queer, would it be "bury your gays" to kill her and then bring her back? - but these terms have become even more complex than their original creators could have ever imagined. The popularity of social media and this inching towards better representation has resulted in situations that simply do not fit our previously neat ideas of these issues. But that doesn't mean there's still not a problem at play. When people use "queerbaiting" or "bury your gays" to describe Fair Game yes, there may be differences between this situation and the examples on which those terms were created, but the fact that we don't yet have new terminology to describe these complex situations doesn't mean there's nothing for queer fans to be upset over. We don't really have a term yet for, "There was definitely coding for those who spotted it, but pretty subtle coding for a time when there is a lot of overt queer rep in our media, including the same show (queerbaiting often accompanies no other queer rep at all) and the creators teased it, but many of them were no longer officially connected to the show, and then the character was horrifically killed off, but can you bury your gay when you didn't confirm him gay in this first place?" That's a particularly awful paradox we don't have a catchy phrase for yet. But the answer here isn't to dismiss all these new situations with, "Well, it doesn't fit my exact definition, so it's not a problem" but rather to expand our vocabulary. As a community we need ways to describe these new cases we're seeing, not dismiss them because they don't perfectly align with what we came up with years ago.

#rwby #queer #mymetas

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mattzerella-sticks · 3 years

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I know, in my heart, Dean is bi. But it's killing me that we won't ever hear them commit to bisexual Dean because "it was left open to interpretation" and the fact that commenting on it, either positively or negatively, will hurt the CW.

If they say he isn't, then the accusations of queerbaiting don't go away. It's just magnified. It does diminish Cas's ending because letting himself die after confessing his love adds to 'bury your gays' and no one wants to see a gay man die for a straight man who doesn't feel the same. They lose any credibility and a lot of fans stop watching and engaging through official channels.

If they say yes, then they have to admit that it was a matter of deciding not to fill in the blanks and purposefully letting a character (and actor) be misrepresented and, again, queerbaiting doesn't go away. We get textual confirmation the ending was messed with (possibly even before the season plot was written - Dean must die and do nothing until Sam arrives in Heaven). The people who are angry CW "gave in" and "ruined a character by making him not straight" leave because they feel shafted as 'true fans' (which is bullshit i don't even want to get into).

The fact that the network isn't even touching that, rather having Misha interact with the fans while he is still in the process of grieving and hurting (the day before a holiday) where he doesn't have the full picture is just nuts!

It's rancid nuts!

Like I feel the CW won't ever admit it did anything wrong on its own without twin sets of pressure squeezing the truth from them. Us below and Warner Media above. And if this happens there are only a few, worthy actions they can take towards rectifying this:

- An apology, public or on social, via press release or whatever someone needs to say sorry for profiting off of queer voices and giving nothing substantial in return

- Company shake up; the only way to commit to doing better (or at least signaling they mean it) is by restructuring how the company is run top-down and who are in positions of power

- Sell the rights to Supernatural; it won't ever see profit in the C*W's hands ever again, and the longer they stay silent the truer this statement is. Let someone else hold onto it so, when the time comes, a reboot/revival will be done right (and it might be soon if acquired by the right people)

- A virtual script reading of an uninfluenced series finale; even if covid was to blame because of this, let us be the judge; the cast all got together to watch an episode live, they can do the same and show us how the finale was supposed to look; it's the most cost effective way of fixing their "mistakes"

Like even if the first three don't happen, the C*W should still do the last one. At this point it is the only way to save face and truly make it so covid was to blame, and they can keep up the lie.

Anyway, just putting this out there because the whole yo-yo of this situation has really thrown me this past week and messed with me and I am running on Empty.

#supernatural #spn #dean winchester #castiel #destiel #sam winchester #spn15 #deancas #15x20 #theysilencedyou #theysilencedthem

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whyqueerbaitingisbad · 3 years

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movies & shows

cracks knuckles* alright this is going to be more of a rant than an analysis because i’m basing this on both my research, but also how it felt to personally be baited by these shows. there are obviously more pieces of bad (almost every horror movie) and good ones but these are the ones i’ve watched.

please keep in mind that i am but one queer and everyone has different opinions.

Supernatural (CW) 2005

This show is 15 years old and just ended. From season 5 till 15, there has been tension between two of the lead characters. They were constantly shipped together and not only did the entire fandom know about this ship but so did almost all of Tumblr. On top of that, the actors and show runners knew about it as well. Which is why it makes it ridiculous that it was constantly pushed aside while the romantic coding kept happening, even after show runners dismissed it as being intentional. The Destiel (Dean x Cas) case has been going on for years, and as the show came to its end, many fans had hope. But N O P E. Instead, we got a love confession from Cas where Dean looked like he was near constipated and the Cas was killed and sent into a fiery place that was not hell but s u p e r h e l l.

… w hy.

Sherlock (BBC) 2010

Just like Supernatural, this show was renown on Tumblr for not only how good it was, but its hinting at a potential relationship between Sherlock Holmes and John Watson. But again, like Supernatural, the intentional tension between the two characters was denied by producers. This caused an uproar within the fandom, and even left some people believing that, after the last season aired, it had been a joke and the producers were hiding a “secret, unaired season” because they had felt so robbed by this show that had implied something and denied it.

The 100 (CW) 2014

We got lesbians. We got background gays. We were happy. Then, all of a sudden, one of them is killed for no reason. Did it advance the plot? No. Was she fighting and died in battle? lol no. She was doing literally nothing and got shot and died. And then the producers kept bringing her back once a season in the form of a ghost or illusion because why? Because she was a fan favourite queer character. ✨bury your gays and sparingly bring them back for profit anyone?✨

Voltron: Legendary Defender (Netflix) 2016

*deep breathe* This one is a special disaster. Not only was there romantic tension and romantically coded scenes for 7 seasons, but producers, voice actors and artists working on the show repeatedly said “don’t worry klance (Keith x Lance) shippers, you’ll be happy”

. … w h e r e??? You code one of their scenes with a sunset in the background while they talk about love and then one of them goes on a date with someone who has declined his advances for 7 seasons but now in season 8 decides to do a full 180. Not only that, but you announce at a Comic Con (a convention) that a character is gay and has a fiancé, only to kill off the fiancé and never make it explicit in the show except at the last second of the last episode where he marries a no name character.

Personally, i’d like to say a big fuck you to the show that strung me along for 2 years and never stopped saying we’d be happy to then pull the rug out from under us and call us crazy for thinking anything from the past 8 seasons was intentional.

Scooby-Doo (2002)

While not being outwardly queerbaiting, this movie’s filmmaker has just revealed some shocking news, which wasn’t at all shocking to the gays who had watched this movie over the years. In July of 2020, James Gunn, the filmmaker of Scooby-Doo, revealed in a podcast that, initially, Velma was explicitly gay in his script, but then the studio watered it down until it became nothing. This isn’t an example of baiting as much as it is changing a character’s initial design to “better fit an audience”. The worst part of all this is that with Velma’s character having been written with a l i t t l e queer subtext, people had been theorizing about if since the movie came out, but were always yelled at by the internet for “imagining something that isn’t there”. But now, even with it being said that the initial point was for her to be gay, people have no objections to still refusing to accept it. Why?? So we can’t get the subtext gays OR the confirmed gays?? Make it make sense.

Brooklyn 99 (NBC) 2013

To have the queer characters firstly introduced without mentioning their sexualities and have it brought up naturally was so goddamn nice to see, because no one does a big deal about it unless they ask for that. This show is amazing in general but the way they show their queer characters is *chefs kiss*.

She-ra and the Princesses of Power (Netflix) 2018

This. Show. My heart SOARS. It's just a remake of an old show so absolutely nothing was ever expected, but then it was sprinkled in and ENDED WITH A BANG. And it was so beautiful and real to see the struggle of two friends who care for each other and want to be together but have different visions of the world fall in love. And they also had characters with disabilities, a non-binary character and jUST SUCH A GOOD SHOW.

Kipo and The Age of Wonderbeasts (Netflix) 2020

This is a case where you go into it not expecting anything and are BLOWN AWAY by the bare minimum. And not because it’s bad!! It's mind blowing because this is the simple representation we need!! Not something over the top, but an every day relationship. It’s just two boys falling in love and going on dates and being nervous around each other, yet i was so stunned. Because it’s not shown enough. I should not be this excited over something that should be this normal. 10/10 though this show is so good for all kinds of representation.

Steven Universe (Cartoon Network) 2013

This show did so much for queer representation with its general message of loving everyone and loving who you want. Especially since it was aired on Cartoon Network, a channel for kids, it was able to help normalize something so looked down upon in some circles. It made it easy to watch for s o m e people because it's a cartoon but it's so beautiful to see these ladies so in love with each other, both platonically and romantically and we see them have a family dynamic that isn’t a “nuclear family”. Rebecca Sugar (creator) really said “lemme just break all stereotypes real quick”.

Adventure Time (Cartoon Network) 2010

It's the “knowing a fanbase shipped something so hard that the creators made it canon” for me. This relationship had been theorized by fans for years, but it had never been explicit in the show. When the finale episode came out and the two shared a kiss, it was a moment of celebration. The producer of the show said that it had not really been planned but when the episode was being made, the choice of what happened was given to one of the artists (bless your soul Hanna K. Nyströmthe). And as the show releases little bonus episodes, its latest was centered around Marceline and Bubblegum and their relationship. AND WE LOVE TO SEE OUR DOMESTIC LESBIANS BEING HAPPY AND IN LOVE.

Yuri on Ice!!! (anime) 2016

The fact that an A N I M E gave us a love story between two men is mind boggling and it makes me so happy!! Especially because it's a Japanese show and they’re very conservative about these things just makes it more emotional. The creators said they wanted to make the anime take place in a world where gay/straight isn’t a thing, it’s just love (ladies, you’re going to make me cry). So as the weekly episodes came out and fans start speculating, THEY GAVE US THE LAST FEW EPISODES FULL OF ROMANCE AND EMOTIONAL SCENES BETWEEN THE TWO AND THEN THEY GET R I N GS?!???!! You watch for the figure skating, you stay for the figure skaters that are in love.

Shadowhunters (Freeform) 2016

*insert me being frustrated that the actors are straight so we can move on from that disappointment*

This show really said “let’s name a whole episode after this couple because they deserve it”. But seriously, they gave us two characters whose entire plot does not center around their sexualities while still showing us the differences in a relationship between someone experienced and someone new at this. They were both powerful and amazing characters apart from each other, with their own story lines and goals but they loved each other so much omgs. SO MUCH.

It was so great to watch.

Love, Simon (2018)

There’s a lot of disagreement on whether this movie is good representation or not. However, we need to take into consideration that this was Hollywood’s first movie with a main character that was gay, where the story’s focus was on Simon’s love story. The biggest problem, for me at least, was that the actor playing Simon is a straight man and not queer. My problem is not with him, but the fact that there are other actors that are gay and that could have played Simon just as well. (the love interested was however played by a queer actor so ✨progress✨)

All in all, this movie does represent what a lot of queer kids have to go through: being outed at school, how they then come out, the bullying and doubt they go through.

The book is also really good.

Call Me By Your Name (2018)

This movie is so aesthetically pleasing and was able to capture the confusion and heartbreak felt by a boy who’s struggling with his own feelings towards a man. His inner conflict and joy and l o v e he feels but doesn’t know how to deal with is so well communicated through the screen and just breaks your heart because it feels so real.

But again, they could’ve gotten gay actors to play gay characters…

through having this list here, i want to show you that it’s not hard for creators to give good queer representation. the LGBTQ+ community isn’t asking for much, we just want to be well represented on screen as just a regular character, not some token queer kid there for the diversity points. having been exposed to so much queerbaiting and just not seeing any representation on screen, i always get over-excited when i see a queer character, and that’s not how it should be. it should be a normal thing, something you can find in most pieces of media, just like there’s a straight white cisgender person in everything.

and they seriously need to start casting queer actors for queer characters...

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representativecharacters · 3 years

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Characters: Castiel, Dean Winchester

From: Supernatural

Representation: mlm (*see “issues” section), abuse survivor (Dean)

Their Importance: Dean and Cas are two characters that many in fandom viewed as LGBTQIA+, with the common belief being that Dean Winchester is bisexual.

There’s a lot about Supernatural and Destiel, and Dean in general, which I’ll go over in the “issues” section, but I think many people in fandom didn’t expect for the show to actually go anywhere with them - until 15x18, when Cas confesses his love to Dean. It’s riddled with issues, yes, but just speaking as a bi girl who’s been watching Supernatural for a decade now, watching Cas confess his love for Dean was just so incredibly validating. It validated that I - and other fans - weren’t delusional when looking for representation from Cas (and Dean). Cas is a wonderful character and gave a new life to the show, and has been a fixture of the show for 10 years. While like with every character he has his ups and downs, he is a kind, loving character, and the only main character who actually survives the show. Despite the issues on the show, knowing that Cas is canonically LGBT+ is something that’s comforting and validating to me, and continues to be so even as Supernatural kind of trainwrecks around everything else.

For myself, watching the show, I saw a lot of myself and my journey in Dean. Watching him grow and develop as a character, and try to experience happiness and find comfort in his found family was wonderful for me to see. I started this show when I was a young closeted kid, and I clung to Dean in a way that I didn’t fully understand until years later. I didn’t actually expect him to be explicitly mlm in the show, and for the most part, that didn’t happen - until the Spanish dub. There, we see the romantic reciprocation to Cas, and that’s something that is real and cannot be taken away. In fact, although it was said that it was a “rogue” translator, the episode will not be redubbed, so it is canon in a version of the show. Despite the fact that he didn’t get canonized in a way I expected or would have ever hoped, it still does give me some joy to know that he is canonically LGBT+ (and in my opinion, bi, although there is no actual label given to Dean). Even if it’s not in the version of the show I watched, I can go back and watch the Spanish dub of the episode and see that representation happen onscreen, and that means something to me.

Issues: The issues list for this show is a mile long, so I’ve split it up into sections and put most of it under a read more:

Dean + Canon Rep: Trying to wade through if Dean is actually canonically LGBTQ+ was....a struggle, to say the least, and I almost didn’t put him into this submission. If you watch the show in English, Dean never once actually reciprocates feelings for Cas, states that he’s into men, or is even confirmed to be in a relationship with other men. Although for many, it is implied, the average audience member may not see Dean as canonically LGBTQ+. However, in the Spanish dub of the show, when Castiel confesses his love to Dean (which is an explicit romantic “I love you”), Dean says “y yo a ti”, which is a reciprocation of Cas’s romantic confession. This post is very long as it is, so I want to link to @destielintheimpala’s timeline of events that occurred for Supernatural and I think it best lays out all the issues about 15x18-20, why it’s been so difficult trying to figure out Dean’s sexuality in canon, why fandom is upset, and can clear up any misinformation. This situation also goes into queerbaiting quite a bit (something Supernatural is infamously known for), which you can read in this article from @thecoolestfreakyouknow.

Reading Dean as a queer character as well - having a character who is queer (or queercoded) and an abuse survivor and then immediately killing him off is also a huge problem. As mentioned in the link above, Jensen Ackles himself felt uneasy about Dean’s ending, and many Dean fans felt the same way. To have a character suffer through abuse and traumas for 15 seasons, imply or straight out have him be LGBT+ (depending on the canon), and then immediately killing him off in the finale is needless to say, an odd choice.

Also, with Dean being an abuse survivor - his father, John Winchester, is commonly shown to be neglectful throughout the show, and Dean has to raise his younger brother Sam by himself most times. He expresses trauma from the experiences he’s had growing up with their father and being forced to hunt at a young age. However, the show weirdly seems to flip flop on their portrayal of John, despite also specifically stating that what he put his children through was child abuse. They have Sam telling John that he did the best he could, they have characters excusing away John’s actions, etc. - it was like the writers themselves couldn’t figure out if they wanted John to have been an abusive parent or not. The show ends with John in Heaven with Mary - thus absolving John of his actions and putting him in the same Heaven with the children he abused.

Castiel: Cas confesses his love for Dean in 15x18, but gets dragged away to a void called “The Empty” immediately afterwards, where he’s meant to be suffering for all of eternity. Cas does get out of The Empty, and even helps to rebuild Heaven - he’s actually one of the few characters to survive the finale - but he never appears onscreen again after 15x18, so fans’ last image of him is getting dragged away to The Empty. Dean never has a follow-up conversation, and there was only one line referencing Cas’s fate, so many fans believed he was still in The Empty suffering.

As the timeline linked above shows, the situation around Destiel is an odd one - the Spanish dub, cast’s overall silence, the lack of Misha Collins in the finale all led fans to believe that something was switched around last minute in terms of Dean’s sexuality and Destiel as a general ship. Obviously, this is speculation unless someone from the show explicitly comes out and says that fans are correct, but it’s included in the issues section because - regardless of it it turns out to be true or not - it’s such a big part of the issues currently surrounding Supernatural and canon representation. In any case, however, Castiel’s confession in 15x18 gave fans hope where they may not have had hope before, and then it was unceremoniously dropped with no real follow up - from a writing standpoint, it isn’t good writing to confirm a major character as queer via a love confession and then never go back to that plot point. While I’m happy that Cas is canonically queer and I’m not trying to say that I would rather not have more representation, I do look back on the show and wonder, with the story that made it to screen, what the actual point of writing that in was.

As mentioned before, Castiel was a main character on the show for 10 years - while I’m glad that his character survives the series, to not have him show up in the final two episodes (particularly the finale, and especially after canonically making him LGBTQ+) felt like a slap in the face to both the character and the audience who loved him.

Miscellaneous treatment of characters: In general, Supernatural has many problems in its treatment of female, characters of color, and LGBTQ+ characters. Alongside being incredibly underrepresented in the show, if they do show up, they are commonly tortured, treated poorly, and/or killed off (if not all of the above). Even thinking about their recurring characters who are also representative - Kevin, their only recurring Asian character, is killed off and appears as a ghost multiple times, Charlie, who is a lesbian, gets killed off and replaced in the show with an Alternate Universe version of herself, Eileen, a Deaf woman, gets killed off and then is brought back and is implied to survive the show, but like Cas, never actually shows up in the final two episodes even though she’s Sam’s girlfriend. I can think of very few minority characters in the show in general, much less those who got any type of happy ending.

#spn #supernatural #castiel #dean winchester #deancas #representation: lgbtqia+#representation: mlm #representation: abuse survivor #issues: ambiguous rep #issues: content #issues: character death #Issues: queerbaiting #submitted

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drsilverfish · 3 years

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Entertainment Web-Press Reactions to 15x18 Despair

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/supernatural-season-15-episode-18-review-despair/

“I’m still numb about this whole scene. A subset of Supernatural shippiers, the Destiel fans, were likely cheering at this point, watching as Cass professed his love for Dean and all that he represents. This love may not necessarily be described as romantic love, but it is no less significant.”

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/supernatural-fans-are-freaking-out-over-despair-and-tonights-big/

“In an emotional farewell speech, Castiel reminded Dean (and the audience) of the deal he made with The Empty -- that if he were to ever find a moment of true happiness, The Empty would come and consume him. Cas found that happiness when he told Dean how he really felt about him -- that Dean was the kindest and most loving man he had ever known, that he loved him, and that through Dean, he had come to love the rest of the world as well.

Cas pushed Dean out of the way, leaving a handprint on his friend's shoulder the same way he had when he rescued Dean from Hell...”

https://www.tvfanatic.com/2020/11/supernatural-season-15-episode-18-review-despair/

“What made that the supposed conclusion to Castiel's arc so sad is that he told Dean he loved him, and Dean didn't say it back.“

https://ew.com/tv/supernatural-despair-castiel/

“It's not the first time Castiel has died, but it's safe to say it will be the last, and as traumatizing as it was, he went out with a smile on his face, saving someone he loved.”

https://www.whattowatch.com/reviews/supernatural-1518-review-despair

“Dean is left behind with dueling realizations that his best friend was in love with him and that he is gone.... Let’s ignore the fact that many fans have waited for this moment for a decade for a second and talk about how much courage it takes to look someone in the eye and tell them how much you love them for everything that they are with the knowledge that they can never love you the same way.”

https://www.themarysue.com/destiel-reset-2020-timeline/

“Destiel went canon... But romantic love, even just on one side of this ship, wasn’t new. It was the writers confirming something fandom had seen for, and I cannot stress this enough, OVER A DECADE.It’s almost impossibly rare that a queer ship that was never intended to be seen this way goes from subtext to text.”

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a34600894/supernatural-destiel-season-15-episode-8-castiel/

“Two episodes before the end, 'Despair' finally made Supernatural's biggest ship canon... only to then rip it apart just moments later... the timing of this particular farewell doesn't sit right given how often queer characters are killed after finally confessing their love... it's hard not to see Destiel's final moment as just an extension of the show's "no homo" approach to all-things queer.”

https://www.looper.com/274715/the-outrage-over-supernatural-season-15s-latest-episode/

However, in the latest episode, "Despair," the show not only killed its queer characters all over again, it did so by finally affirming what many fans had long suspected — Castiel is queer and in love with Dean... many long-time fans are disappointed and angry that series writers decided to finally acknowledge the fan belief that Cas and Dean were in love only to immediately kill the one queer character of the two.”

To Summarize the Diversity of Views:

1) Not necessarily romantic

2) They’re best friends

3) It’s romantic on Castiel’s side

4) Dean didn’t say (feel) it back

5) Dean doesn’t love Cas the same way

6) Destiel is now (one-sided) “canon”

7) Castiel is queer (but not Dean)

8) It’s “Bury Your Gays”

#Supernatural #15x18 #Despair #Destiel #Still semi-subtext #But subtext IS part of narrative #Fan TPTB Conversations #Polysemy #Plausible deniability train #Reading subtext

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thenonbinarydetective · 3 years

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SPNGATE Summary to my Knowledge

So let’s see if I got this

One-sided destiel confession and then immediate bury your gays sacrifice for dean

There’s a rumor the Putin is resigning

Georgia turns blue in the 2020 election

Castiel is basically forgotten for the final two episodes

11 Scenes were cut from the finale. Two romantic songs were part of the storyboard, one of which being Angel with a Shotgun.

One of the scenes is rumored to be Dean screaming for Cas

Eileen, Sam’s deaf girlfriend, is dead and forgotten

Jack becomes God after Dean kills God and leaves

The brothers are alone again and fall into their old monster a week thing and Dean is still doing what his dad told him to even though he should’ve grown past that with character development

Dies impaled on a nail, any injury that probably could’ve been fixed. This character who has struggle with depression and s*icide just shown giving up instead of getting the happy ending he deserved and longed for. Cas sacrifice is made meaningless by this

There’s incest

Unhealthy codependency last beyond death when Sam names his son Dean

The first woman who isn’t killed or in pain for plot development is just standing blurrily in the background. Silent, with no name, or no pictures around the house they’re supposed to be living in. IDK if she’s real, she just so blurry

Party city wigs for old Sammy

He dies of old man disease

There’s maybe some more incest

Ends the show the way it began. Not in a symbolical circular ending, but one that basically throws away any character development they had

Random side character is in the finale and dies

You know instead of the beloved reoccuring characters the show has accumulated over 15 years and belongs in Heaven

Bobby I get, but Dean is in Heaven with his canonically abusive father? Why?

They blamed that on Covid and multiple actors came out and said that wasn’t true. That they were never called

Georgia is confirmed blue again around the same time

The Spanish dub comes in and reciprocates the confession that the CW said wasn’t

Everyone freaks out

The CW is officially in trouble at this point

Jensen recorded the scene on his phone and still has it. Hasn’t released it.

Everyone realizes the scene is clearly edited

#TheySilencedYou and #TheySilencedThem trends

The CW uses Misha as a shield. They get the situation wrong and most likely told him to say the things he said. That it wasn’t a bury your gays, we can DIY our rep, and the Spanish dub comes from a “Rogue Translator”

Possibly gaslit him into thinking that he did something wrong when he’s not to blame

Many people say through it cause this isn’t like Misha to say the things he said. He’s on social media a lot, I think most fans understand him.

There’s a possible Indian dub confirming it, idk what happened with that.

As well as Portuguese Dub (idk if rumor or confirmed)

Negative reviews of the finale start disappearing from ImDb

Black Lightning is cancelled, which somehow became a part of this. Sorry Black Lightning

CW stays silent

Video(s) of the finale start disappearing from the CW’s official Youtube Channel

Also videos of the confession in Spanish have disappeared from the internet.

People start to open the conversation to the rest of the network and start questioning how the CW has represented minorities

Obama is a Destiel Shipper

There’s now an Italian Dub rumor. Which is questionable.

#SomethingToSay starts and goes hard on judging and speaking on the “representation that the CW has presented. Going far beyond Supernatural to the point were every show is now guilty of something (with evidence)

Main points being questionable/bad queer representation with repeated use of stereotypes and bury your gays, stereotyping and villainizing black characters, fetishizing and stereotyping asian characters, ableism surrounding their treatment of disabled and mentally ill characters, and using a woman’s pain as a plot device

That’s surprisingly not the only points. Whole list here

The CW still hasn’t made an official statement. The closest they’ve done is pin that generic “we don’t hate you” post they made even though it’s practically incorrect at this point

Considering they’ve promised to do better in terms of representation multiple times in the past and have yet to prove it. Many people remembered Lexa and also Vanessa Morgan and that other Riverdale actress that moved on the Katy Keene. Who was apparently forced to leave her role, not due to the fact the series was cancelled.

Unrelated but someone on the Flash got Covid and they had to stop filming

Only God knows what’s gonna happen next? Let me know if I left anything out

#Something to Say #They Silenced Them #They Silenced You #spngate #destiel in spanish #destiel

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earbuds-and-hightops · 3 years

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An Open Letter to Supernatural

[ Spoiler warning for 15x20, obviously ]

I understand that a well-contemplated complaint about this ending cannot be made without first reading the original, pre-COVID, script of 15x20, but in the long run, the initial plan is not what will be remembered.

What will be remembered is what this show created. What it became beyond two brothers driving around the country, hunting monsters. Characters were introduced and developed, and in that, Sam and Dean Winchester become so much more than two kids living on the road. In the past 15 years, the cast, and thus the family, grew to something that would be unimaginable to those who started this project back in 2005. Not only did the characters and their stories become meaningful, but the show itself grew into, well, a family. The fans who have kept this show alive since Day 1 have come together to form what I believe is the greatest community in pop culture.

What hurts the most is that this finale did not do any of that development justice.

The finale (and consequently the episodes leading up to it) reverts back to the story between only Sam and Dean. While some see this as an ode to who they are--their brotherhood and familial bond being the heart of their values and the root of their characters--I cannot help but see this as a rejection of their experiences this past decade and a half.

What’s worse, episode 15x18 confirmed one of the most pure and powerful and goddamn beautiful romances that television will ever see. This story of an angel who abandoned his family and the only beings he’s known for thousands of years, all for one person. I knew from the instant the screen faded to black on November 5 that the story of Castiel will always be remembered, even if his feelings were unrequited. Castiel will always be remembered.

And then there’s Destiel. I was genuinely impressed that this show would even grow to include a queer angel, more importantly, a queer character in a leading role. The queer-baiting and the “bury your gays” trope both make this confession and its lack of acknowledgement that much worse (and is worthy of an entirely separate open letter for another night). It matters less if Dean does or doesn’t reciprocate these feelings and more that it’s wrong that he completely ignores it. Cas’s love confession, this beautifully tragic and tragically beautiful emotion coming from a being who wasn’t supposed to feel emotions at all, is something that, unfortunately, will become a secret that dies with Dean Winchester.

It’s truly a shame that the writers of this show let that happen.

We haven’t even touched the fact that Castiel’s death was an act of sacrifice to save Dean. Dean’s limited reaction and lack of mourning* tears apart this phrase that has become pivotal to the entire show and fanbase: “Family don’t end in blood.” While it would be a lot to ask that Dean rescue Cas from the Empty and resume their cycle of rescue and resurrection, I think it’s only fair that Dean take the time to fully accept Castiel’s actions and words for what they mean instead of simply moving forward as if they never happened.

What’s more, Misha Collins is one of the greatest and kindest people in this world, and he’s poured his heart and soul into Supernatural, just like everybody else. He’s spent 12 years on this project, and the final two episodes hardly mentioned his character. He didn’t deserve this. It’s heartbreaking that his last credit on this show will be a prank call from someone trying to impersonate him, and not something that pays tribute to such an important character and important actor**

The most devastating part of this ending is what happened in 15x19. Pardon my French when I say that that episode, the ultimate climax of the season and latter half of the series, was a piece of dog shit. It’s incredibly frustrating to invest in 15 years worth of television and look forward to this ultimate battle between two average boys and God the Almighty Himself and to instead watch a 6-minute long fist fight on the beach with the only dialogue being variations of “seriously guys, stay down.”

My issues with 15x19 lie less in the storyline that was chosen and more in how they were presented. I am completely on board with Jack taking God’s power and eventually becoming the new God, but the episode was far too quick to have any real meaning, and, as stated before, Castiel’s sacrifice, which allows Sam, Dean, and Jack to do what they do in 15x19, is hardly mentioned.

Most fans agree that 15x19 was far too quickly paced. The plot with Michael and Lucifer was questionable to begin with, but should have been an episode on its own if it were to be perused at all. Michael’s story in particular could have been fleshed out to reiterate this theme of overly loyal sons and their fathers, as well as their relationships with less loyal siblings, but was instead reduced to about 20 minutes of screen time.

Though this is less important, Lucifer’s plan to make a new Death felt like a cheap cop-out just to close the storyline with Death’s book, but we can finish that discussion another day.

The general fan reaction to this atrocity of an episode was that this was meta, and according to Becky, the ending was supposed to be dog shit. This, along with the untouched storyline started when Cas died, gave fans so much hope that the finale would be this amazing piece of art that puts Supernatural in the history books.

While it’s obvious that an hour cannot perfectly tie up every single event and arc with a pretty little bow, it can at least...try. Any finale should, at minimum, pay tribute to what the show started as (which 15x20 did well) and what it became (which 15x20 failed to do miserably).

In addition, a reference to character back in season 1 is incredibly frustrating when recurring characters with actual, well, character go unnoticed. I mostly reference Eileen here, but this also applies to Jody and Donna. Nobody even mentions the other wonderful friends who have helped Sam and Dean along their journey to Heaven. If family doesn’t end in blood, then why doesn’t it extend to include Castiel, Jack, Mary, Rowena, Charlie, Kevin, Jody and her girls, Donna, and so many others?

Dean’s death was sad, I’ll give them that (and honestly, I was expecting it). However, considering that this man has defeated apocalypses, killed Death, and taken down God, his death via nail in the wall was incredibly anticlimactic, and something that could literally have happened at any point over the 15 seasons. While Dean’s death was obviously not my ideal ending, I think it could have worked if it were done properly, and in this case, it was not. That said, I do appreciate that Sam did not try to bring Dean back, as that would indicate literally no growth at all.

Dean’s funeral was...pathetic, to say the least. Sam being the only person there was depressing considering that Dean had lots of other close friends (and you’d think that Jack would pay his respects, but apparently not), however, this is likely a scene that was impacted by COVID and the availability of some of the cast, so I will not dwell on that scene.

Dean’s time in Heaven complicates matters even more. Firstly, Bobby confirms that Castiel is no longer in the Empty and has been in contact with Jack. I would have loved to see this reunion; Cas is essentially Jack’s father, and I would have loved to see how their upgrading/remodeling of Heaven brought them closer together. I understand that the writers were trying to focus this finale story on the brothers, this goes back to my earlier point that you cannot simply ignore everything that that this show has grown to include. Bobby’s explanation also begs the question of why Dean had no intention of seeing Cas (or Jack, for that matter) again now that he has the opportunity.

Secondly, Dean’s instinct to go directly for the Impala was very in-character, however, the editing implied that driving was all Dean did until Sam died. As we know, Sam dies of old age, likely (completely guessing here) upwards of 40-50 years from Dean’s death, and that is a very, very long time for Dean to simply driving around the mountains. It would have been nice to see Dean reunite with other family and friends who are also in Heaven, however, again, COVID restraints.

Sam’s ending was similar to what I and a lot of other fans imagined (not necessarily wanted, but predicted) it to be: kids and a wife, living a normal, monster-free, life. I hate to believe that he doesn’t end up with Eileen (to my recollection, his wife was a blur in the background, and it is unclear if she was meant to be Eileen) however that might just be my bias and appreciation of Shoshannah Stern. While I’m glad that this storyline gave Sam the room to grow and develop without his brother, it also completely ignores everything that he’s been through this past decade and a half, and that is something that should not happen. Sam grew and changed so much since he left Stanford and leaving that life, the life of a hunter, behind feels very counterintuitive.

Let’s not even discuss the wig that Jared wore. It reminded me of the Cain wig that Rob wore in the Hillywood parody.

What shocked me the most at the beginning of this episode was the lack of a “The Road So Far” compilation. I hoped for the full song with a recap of all 15 seasons, or, at minimum, the typical single-season recap. “Carry On My Wayward Son” is such an important part of the show and the culture of the fan base, that it seems almost sacrilegious that the season finale not begin with this song and a memorial to the events in the past season (or series).*** I’m very happy that it was included at all, but I was shocked when Neoni’s cover took over.

No disrespect to Neoni; those girls are incredibly talented and I love their music, however, a series finale of a 15 season long show does not feel like the place for a cover when they already have the rights to the original, and the original is so iconic.

Lastly, I want to acknowledge Jensen Ackles’s reaction to this conclusion. At a con panel about a year ago, he said that he needed to be talked into agreeing to this script by Erik Kripke himself, because the ending just wasn’t sitting right with him. So many fans took this to believe that he was homophobic and afraid that of Destiel becoming fully canon, and he got so much more hate than he deserved, because ultimately, he was right in his first opinion. This isn’t the way this story should have ended. Jensen explained that he had been “too close” to the story, and that it took a more holistic view from a step backwards (the audience’s perspective, as he puts it) to agree on this ending, but honestly, nobody knows Dean Winchester better than Jensen, and he knows what’s best and what would be the best way to finish this character’s arc. I think fans and Jensen alike agree that this wasn’t it.

I sympathize with all of the cast and crew members who disagree with how this show ended but are bounded by contract to support this show no matter what. Especially Misha and Jensen.

Over all, I believe that Supernatural will go down in history (in internet communities, at least) as one of the greatest shows ever. While I do agree that the writing quality in terms of both dialogue and plot declined as years passed, the community, the family, that this show created cannot be ignored because of a poorly written/planned ending. I think that the fandom will collectively let go of this disaster of an ending that we were given and will, just like Sam and Dean, write our own stories. I have full faith and confidence that Supernatural will not be represented by this finale episode, but by the beautiful stories, amazing characters, and the family that this show created and what the fans have chosen to do with it.

Sincerely,

A Fiercely Frustrated but Fiercely Loyal Fan

* I do not count that last clip of Dean crying on the floor as mourning. In my mind, that was a reaction, not an emotional healing and overcoming, if that makes sense. I argue that if Dean were to fully mourn and process everything (like Sam did in 15x20) we would have seen at least a bit of that on screen.

** This is where I would have loved to see some of the original scripts. I hope that the writers initial intentions were to have Misha more involved in these last two episodes than what was likely a voice memo created in 10 minutes tops at Misha’s house.

*** The strange montage at the end of 15x19 makes so much more sense. I still would have preferred that montage at the beginning of 15x20. This also shines light on the video that Misha posted. What would we do without him :)

#supernatural #spn #spn season 15 #spn finale #spn 15x20 #an open letter #no beta we die as men #destiel #deancas #dean winchester #sam winchester #castiel #jack kline #erik kripke #robert singer #andrew dabb #that god awful finale #i spent 4 hours drafting this

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queentrxyler · 3 years

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ok I don’t usually contribute to discourse like this but I’ve got something to say: I’m actually pretty pissed. and I’m not pissed about cas “dying” after the love confession (like misha says, he saves the world and ends up rebuilding heaven like he’s doing fine). what I’m pissed about is the fact that he is barely mentioned in the last two episodes and we never get full confirmation of dean’s feelings. and it seems like (honestly whether or not this is true isn’t what matters, it’s the message) at least part of the reason dean was killed off was to avoid having him directly deal with the cas confession. they killed him off, and then sent him DIRECTLY TO HEAVEN which is WHERE CAS IS. and cas STILL barely gets a mention and dean makes no indication that he’s going to go look for him. I don’t care if you can read into his little smile, the truth of the matter is that he rode off and met up with Sam and that made him complete.

so here’s the big issue: nevermind that Cas is as essential to dean as Sam is. nevermind that Cas has been a central part of the show for 12 years and deserved more in the finale. what happened is that they decided to write a queer romance, and then shy away from it (even if that’s not what happened in the writers room, that’s what it looks like). the message that sends to people is abhorrent. you’re saying that our stories don’t hold as much value as straight narratives. they don’t deserve to be told in their entirety. if this was a straight relationship, they would have had no trouble showing more emotion, or incorporating cas into the last two episodes. but no, because it’s queer we have to dance around it. and that is simply not acceptable. stop acting like our stories don’t matter as much, stop acting like they don’t have value and that they are something to be interpreted or expanded upon by the fans. queer stories are as important, and as relavant, and as NORMAL as straight stories and they have value and deserve to be told.

They built up a beautiful love story between these two men, and then treated it like it was nothing after the confession. I get it you want views guys but that hurt. That really hurt. You couldn’t tell a queer story with grace and instead told us our love stories are not as important or not as beautiful. And I understand you need to make money, I really do. I understand why they did what they did. and it’s so fucking unfair. Why are our stories always the ones that we have to fight for to be told? Why aren’t our stories ever treated as normal as straight stories?

I’m not mad at misha or the actors or anyone in particular really. I just want them to know that the reason they’re seeing so much backlash is because it finally seemed like they realized that queer narratives have value, only to treat it horribly and as inferior or something to be more up to interpretation. you are telling us that you can’t write our stories because it’s too dangerous for you or your network. and you did it publicly, so now those in charge and other fans can treat us as if we are complaining or making too much out of it. No. you made us feel inferior for thinking one of our love stories could be a major part of this show. and now they are getting their actors to try to fix it and it’s so humiliating because all we wanted was to see that our stories have value and they are treating us like we missed the point.

no cw, you missed the point. you traded our stories for views using characters we love. and that just hurts like hell.

#supernatural #supernatural finale #destiel #dean winchester #cas and dean in heaven #castiel #sorry guys I had to rant #I watched misha’s video and I had WORDS #ngl it pissed me off when he said he was irked #like that’s how we feel all the time #we wanted this story to be told so bad #not just Bc we love cas and dean #but we wanted a beautiful love story told without shame #and that didn’t happen #rant #spn #supernatural rant

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lispunk · 3 years

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Thoughts about Misha's video, 15x18 (the non reciprocal love confession and subsequent latam correction) and How the C*W* ended Supernatural

This my opinion after watching Misha's video. It's a bit long so bare with me, please.

So what if it was just a rogue translation? There's so many people who only know that version of the story and for them it will be the only one there is. I stopped watching spn in wb (I'm from Argentina) because I didn't like the translation (which is really funny now), but I think that saying this is my canon now is very valid. I was lucky enough to get to watch the show online when it aired but the truth is that am going to stick with the spanish Latin America version even if it was a lucky mistake.

(Also y'all really don't know how big it is that they made the decision to put "Te amo" instead of the platonical "Te quiero" and Dean saying "Y yo a ti, Cas". Spanish dubb in -Latin America at least I don't know about Spain- is usually very homophobic like as a rule, it's still very common to see translations turned platonic or less romantic just so it's not very gay. So the fact that they made the choice to say that is incredibly huge).

(TW: canon characters deaths; talk about suicidal tendencies -in character and the op; homophobia from network).

And the thing is that for Cas it's still a bury your gays ending whether Dean is canonically bisexual (which he is to me) or not. And we don't even need to talk about Destiel. It's also about Rowena (cutting a scene which confirmed her as bi) and Charlie (being the representation of the fandom at some extent and dying violently) and how they characters were treated. And how every female or poc characters was treated. The C*W* needs to be hold accountable for this things. They think they aren't homophobic because they have a white twenty something gay guy, and don't get me wrong they deserve representation too but it's the easiest way they can give it. They're mostly filling a quota, they don't care about them. And that's fucked up doesn't matter how you look at it.

Maybe we were wrong about an original alternative version of the love confession scene were Dean reciprocates, but we are not wrong about everything else. And I'm sure we are not wrong about the network queerbaiting us into watching the last two episodes after we got the confession in 15x18. They knew what it would mean to us and they chose to be ambiguous about Cas coming back just to keep us watching.

I understand if Misha thinks Cas ending meant so much (and I agree to some extent) but I won't be silent about how much I hate what they did to him. Cas declaration was really important and it did save the world, but I can't say that it was okay that they killed him afterwards and then we only got three mentions of his name and nothing else in the last two episodes. I would die saying that Castiel as the third lead in Supernatural deserved better than that and he deserved to be in the finale (don't even bring covid as an excuse because it's not).

Supernatural's ending sucked. If you liked it then good for you, you're very lucky but I still will boycott the shit out of it. I love Misha, Jensen and Jared and I respect them and their work (also the whole crew and cast) but that doesn't stop me from thinking the finale was disrespectful towards them but especially towards us. I don't even have to bring Destiel into this, the way Dean died it's just awful. He fought for the whole world and he didn't deserve that. Y'all really don't understand how much it affected me the fact that Dean, a character who has shown suicidal tendencies got killed the moment he was starting to enjoy life. I deal with my mental illness and my own awful thoughts and seen that just made me feel real hopelessness. That's not the way you want to portrait a mentally ill (and possibly queer) character unless you're a truly shitty network/writer and you don't really care about the characters and/or your audience.

I know I talk a lot about Dean and Cas but Sam's ending wasn't great either. Yeah, he got the withe fence ending with a wife (DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE FACELESS BACKGROUND WOMAN) and a kid, but he never got over his brother death and that's really just sad. Also one chapter he was desperate to have Eileen (his love interest through the whole season) back (15x18) and then we never hear from her again, no one even mentions her name.

They build the whole show around the idea that "Family doesn't end in blood", they have all this character growth from their leads and then it's just thrown away for supossedly shocking value and some weird idea that they should end it like they started it or how it originally was supposed to be (which literally just takes away the whole point of making the show). And they don't even mention family (besides the abusive father being in heaven, mary whom I don't particularly think is a good mother, jack and cas being mentioned once each, and bobby appearing for two minutes after like five seasons). So it just ends up being about Sam and Dean, or just Sam, and eventually his son Dean I guess. And then Sam and Dean again but now they're both dead and happy (because is great being dead apparently).

I'm going into heller mode now so if that's not your cup of tea then leave that's it for you, it's your lose.

As a queer closeted girl I've always found comfort in Cas and Dean's relationship and I tought that someday it would be their moment and it'd be okay for them to come out and then it would be okay for me too. Getting the semi canon when 15x18 aired meant so much but the truth is I still wanted more, I wanted Dean to be able to say it back because I love them both and they deserve so much love and Dean especially has always been a role model to me so I really wanted for him to get an actual happy ending and then... we didn't. But now there's this new version and truly I couldn't care lees if it's not in the original script because I got to hear it. I think it's sad how fucking desperate I am for representation from characters I relate to that I will take any crumbs i can get. Dean and Cas deserved so much better than what spn end gave them. And the truth is that I and we did too.

In conclusion: Dean is bi(sexual and lingual), he loves Castiel and his love is reciprocated. Also the ending is an ao3 fix-it fic, so yeah. That's it. I'm sorry for this ranting but I really need it to let all out. If someone is as frustrated as I am feel free to drop a message.

P.S. I really love the cast and the show, I literally wouldn't care that much about this if I didn't so i don't mean to sound hateful towards them. Just really hated the ending and the fact that I got queerbaited and robbed of so many (mostly gay) things.

P.S.2. Sorry for any grammar or spelling errors it's past 3 am and I'm not a native english speaker (self taught actually so there's probably a lot of those). Again really sorry about that, I hope I made myself understandable enough.

#spanish love confession #destiel #deancas #supernatural #spn #dean winchester #castiel #spn spoilers #misha collins #supernatural finale spoilers #supernatural finale #sam winchester #spngate #jensen ackles #jared padalecki #dean is bi #cas is in love with dean

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 3 years

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Dean is bi-coded, take 2

I was doing some poking and prodding around the internet for this meta I’m currently working on and sure enough, I came across some blogs, articles, and other things that talk about the queer baiting, Dean’s sexuality, and how Cas’ I love you is platonic (seriously? is this for real? it’s been over 2 months, it’s romantic, it’s been confirmed as that, end of story isn’t it?) and all of that crap. And you know what kills me?

This moment right here.

Plus the writer (Ben Edlund) and the director (Phil Sgriccia) of the episode making this commentary on this scene:

“You’re not sure what it means.” (PS)

“No, I actually like the little mystery. Like sometimes those weird, like, undone, like, sweater, you know, threads to me are like... That’s this, almost the equivalent of the uh, the extension cord on the refrigerator. It’s like, there’s a deeper dimension to the fact that it makes no sense.“ (BE)

“The whole closeup where he pulls the wallet back, that was something he did that we caught with a camera.“ (PS)

“It was so much fun to shoot that because he played it so right down the middle, you know, just more awkward about it.“ (PS)

“Like ‘Wow, somebody likes me.’“ (PS)

“Well, that’s the weird thing is that it reads in this weird way where it does feel like Dean’s a little bit like...It’s almost like a romantic comedy kind of fluster. Which is very interesting for the character Dean, because it just sort of suggests this weird...this potential.“ (BE)

“This potential for love in all places.“ (PS)

Why did Jensen ‘play it down the middle’ if the character is 100% straight and that’s canon? Why did Sgriccia keep it in besides the comedy/awkward factor they mention? Why did Dean not just shoot Aaron down, like we saw him do in season 6 with the vampire who was hitting on him? Why the disappointed expression when Aaron later confirms that the moment, Dean’s “gay thing” was a ruse? (3:25 - x) And for that matter, speaking from a purely logistical standpoint, why would Aaron use that as his way to keep a close eye on the investigation, anyway? Is it possible that he thought he had an in that way because he viewed something that led him to believe he did if he approached it that way? Is it a smart move when Dean calls him out since Aaron was caught watching him? Absolutely. But how does he know that maybe Dean might not have taken him up on his offer? So, logistically, this doesn’t track, not solely for the story. Yes, it’s a comedic scene but Dean didn’t immediately scream “get back! I like chicks only!” or “that’s really nice, I’m flattered, but unfortunately I don’t swing that way” or “nope, nope, nope!”? Why did Edlund say “almost like a romantic comedy kind of fluster”? Never mind all of the other moments in the series that happen where Dean is checking guys out, he’s being flirty, and other men are attracted to him.

So what kills me is the whole “Dean is canonically straight” and “he’s written straight! get it through your head!” debate/argument that happens on this site and other places. It’s mind boggling that people either have a huge issue with Dean being written as anything other than one rigid sexual orientation when the show has suggested time and time again that this may be a possibility, through performances, the writing/story, and the framing/edits. Or it cracks me up when I see certain corners of the fandom thinking Dean’s questioned sexuality/attraction is only a certain section of fans of the show that are projecting their own wishes and headcanons onto the character when, again, it has been shown that this is not them picking up a breadcrumb and baking a whole loaf with it.

I mean, the whole siren episode -- hello. Don’t you think it’s interesting that they chose to have Sam hook up with the doctor and Dean gets a male siren? Where all of the other male victims have fallen in love with female strippers? That Sam and Cara have a talking/bonding moment that leads to sex while Dean is also having a talking/bonding moment with Nick? Yes, the main story line is about the growing chasm between Sam and Dean, Sam’s working with Ruby, Dean feeling like he can’t trust Sam, and there is some obvious jealousy and all of that. But did the siren have to be male for Dean? Nick didn’t go to all of that trouble to talk/bond with Sam when the latter showed up. No, it went after Dean because Dean was more vulnerable, more easily separated, and more likely to do as the siren said once he was poisoned. And again, it could have been a female stripper or Dean could have gotten the doctor (had the siren been Cara). No, instead he gets Nick.

And another interesting thing to me is how when the series starts out, Dean is obviously trying to live up to John, what John expects of him and who he should be. He even admits that in 4x19 to Sam when they are burning Adam’s body. He dressed like John, wanted to be like John (as a hunter), hell he even listened to the same music. In this moment, he understands that he will never be like John, not the same way Sam is. Which we already knew from watching the series, but here is where Dean finally “gets it”. And sure enough, we slowly start to see the parts of John that Dean has imbued himself with stripping away, to reveal who Dean actually is underneath. The leather jacket goes, the behavior (for the most part), and the influence pretty much. Hell, even the Samulet goes at one point. The only thing that remains by the end of the series is the impala and the music, which has become Dean’s own and intrinsic to his character and who he is. Plus, what do we get in 10x16? This moment. This is a man who is realizing things for the first time, realizing that he is starting to want a different ending for himself than the one he’s been made to believe was a certainty before this moment. And then what do we get in season 11, a season that has been proven to be about “heart”?

“I do actually.”

Dean’s character grows as time passes and his outlook on life changes as well. So that brings me to this moment:

This is clearly different to how we’ve seen Dean after losing a loved one, a friend, before (except for Sam obviously, Mary hasn’t died yet, and Jack isn’t in Dean’s story yet). This was clearly meant to contrast those other times before. The narrative called attention to it by showing us the difference in Dean’s mood between 13x05 and 13x06. They even call attention to it in the dialogue! When people call this Dean’s widower arc, it’s not a stretch of imagination.

And do you know what else we see after this arc?

1) Dean and Sam meeting Jesse and Cesar, a pair of hunting husbands and what is the first thing Dean asks them after finding out they’re married? “So, what’s it like settling down with a hunter?” -- again pointing out that Dean had a different desired ending for himself in mind & the eventual partner would have to be someone in the life (which is exactly the sentiment he tells Sam about Eileen in 15x08 when he gives his approval: “She gets it. She gets us. She gets the life.”), especially after what happened with Lisa & Ben in season 6

2) Dean barely hooking up with women as often as we did before. Sure, we see him flirting here and there, like with Lorna in 15x07. And what does Pam say to him in 14x10? “Besides, you don’t want me.You just like to flirt.” Plus, we see the bra on his head when Sam finds him passed out drunk in the morning. But we barely see Dean indulging in casual sex, not as often as we used to earlier in the series. And do you know why? Because Dean’s life is progressing and his wants and needs are changing. I’m talking for everything in his life, like the ending I mentioned above. He’s not a young guy anymore and he’s looking for some sort of permanence that he doesn’t think he deserves, partner wise, life wise, etc. But he wants it. Otherwise, why the line in 15x10 “I always knew I could be a good dancer” while watching Garth and Bess dance through a window? After this dance scene happens, where Garth shows him how to start dancing, and then he is left to his own devices once Garth is done showing him?

It is not uncommon for people’s wants and needs to change as they get older. We all know people change as life progresses, as they age. Who you are in your teens is not necessarily who you are in your twenties, who you are in your twenties is not necessarily who you are in your thirties, and so on and so forth. Someone I’ve worked with in the past only recently discovered their sexuality in their forties. It was something they had always been curious about but had never done anything or said anything about it because of the way they had been raised. They had the whole marriage with kids, white picket fence thing going for years but eventually, they discovered themselves as they got older and now is with their partner, they’re the happiest they’ve ever been, and they wouldn’t change any of it for the world. And that’s just one story of someone discovering who they are, what they want out of life, out of many all over this planet, every day.

So why is it so hard to believe that a character that has had more than ten years of development written for them may ultimately change, too? If Dean is indeed straight and never thinks of men at all, then him being older and more confident in himself, knowing himself better, as we’ve seen...then why is he not declaring that up until the end? Why not get that out quickly as Cas confesses that to him? Why did a female dancer not show up in that montage between he and Garth above? Why was Dean not given his equivalent of Eileen? Why did the narrative not enforce it in season 15 at all? Why did Dean never mention wanting a wife and kids? Why was Cas and Jack being added to their family enough for him? As he mentions to John in 14x13, “I have a family” when John mentions he had wanted Dean to get himself a “normal life, a peaceful life, a family”.

Sure, Dean never thought he deserved the apple pie life with a wife and kids, not like he thought Sam did. We see this reinforced in season 6 when he’s with Lisa and Ben who he ultimately has to give up because of the hunting hurting them and putting them in danger. But again, if his desired ending changed later on in the series, then why is it at least not something he wants, whether he thinks he deserves it or not?

However you view Dean and/or his sexuality is completely up to you. If you don’t want to view him as bisexual or even bi-coded, that’s your choice. If you don’t want to view him as being in love with Cas (a nonbinary angel in a male vessel), that’s your choice. Stories are a form of art. And art is always open to interpretation, eye of the beholder, etc. However, going out of your way to invalidate someone’s view of said art and pointing to the text on the show as your evidence for the invalidation is ludicrous. When the text itself has given many points of evidence to suggest that Dean may not be as rigid in his sexuality as the beginning of the series led you to believe. While the siren episode took place during the Kripke era, the Aaron episode took placed during Carver’s. The widower arc, the found family with Cas and Jack, Cas’ confession took place during Dabb’s. Dabb was still on the writing team during Carver’s, Gamble’s, and Kripke’s eras. When Dean started to want a different ending for himself, it started in Carver’s era and then transferred to Dabb’s. And Dabb didn’t change it, he didn’t get rid of it, instead he took it and sharpened it even further into focus. And Carver and Dabb? Both were with the show long before they became the showrunners for their respective time frames.

Does this show have a queerbaiting legacy? Unfortunately, yes. But other than the eyefucking the actors were directed to do from the scripts, if they never intended for one of their main characters to be seen that way, they would have never done so. If they wanted to bait, they simply could have left it at the whole Dean and Cas topic and kept solely teasing that. Pitch Perfect is the perfect example of queerbaiting. They purposely promoted Becca (Anna) and Chloe (Brittany) acting as if they were going to kiss in the promo in order to get people to the theaters to watch the final film in the trilogy. And if you’ve seen the movies, you know there were moments that happened between the two characters that were...questionable. But it was between the two of them. Because the films knew it was popular after the first one, that it was a selling point that even the studios themselves got in on. SPN and the C*W could have very easily done that with just Dean and Castiel. As a matter of fact, the C*W did:

There was no reason in the story or even from a business standpoint to promote a bi-coded Dean (unless there would be a Destiel endgame at some point which would make some fans question that if hinting hadn’t been there all along). They had already baited the LGBT+ audience with the moments between Dean and Cas. So why all of the moments with Dean and other guys? Think about that.

The answer? Dean is purposely bi-coded.

And on top of that, why is it such a bad thing if some people view Dean’s sexuality as fluid? Why is it such a threat to the Dean Winchester you know and love? Why don’t you just do you, boo, and leave others to do the same? See Dean however you want to see him. Does he have girls on each arm? Cool. Does he have a girl on one arm and a guy on the other? Cool. Two guys on each arm? Cool. No one on either arm but he’s still happy? Cool. Dean as a hunter? Cool. Dean in construction? Cool. Dean married? Cool. Dean single and ready to mingle? Cool. Dean as a dad? Cool. Dean with no kids? Cool. Dean as a Dallas Cowboys fan? Cool. Dean as a hockey fan instead? Cool. Dean likes action movies? Cool. Dean likes to listen to books on tape? Cool. Do you get it yet? View Dean how you want to. And let others do the same. It doesn’t negate Dean’s character or the story the series was telling for 15 years.

So again, see Dean however you want to but for the love of Jack, stop going out of your way to invalidate how other people see him. Especially when the very narrative itself calls this character’s romantic and sexual orientations into question time and time again over the series. It not only makes you look like an intolerant ass but also a very shallow and naive one.

#dean is bi #dean is bi-coded #bi!dean confirmed #bi!dean meta #destiel mention #still beautiful still dean winchester #dean winchester is bi #dean winchester is bisexual #bi!dean #spnposts

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wherestheangel · 3 years

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I just woke up and immediately started crying over supernatural again. At my core, I think I'm just more hurt that they lied to us than anything else. Why give us this message of hope for 15 years and then turn around and kill one of the most resillient characters in the series? All dean ever wanted was a chance for freedom and to live his own life, and they gave him that for two days. Why the fuck did they make him give up so easy???? It felt out of character as hell to have him give up from a fucking spike in the back, after surviving everything he has. He didn't even die for anything, not for the sake of Sam, or for the world, or even one of the little kids they were saving. That was a death for nothing but shock value.

God, Dean Winchester deserved to grow old. After all he's fucking been through for the world, the least he deserved was to get the chace to grow old.

And castiel. This show didn't deserve him or Misha collins. I hate how they made him go out. I ship destiel as much as anything but if this is what it costed then I wish 15x18 never happened. His whole arc was finding acceptable within himself and learning that he didnt have to be some subservient little soldier. He tells Jack in the same episode that he doesn't need absolution from anybody else, and they still make him sacrifice himself for dean. They still turn around and make castiels entire story from 12 years ago ultimately lead up to this one thing - sacrificing himself for a winchester.

I know he loved him, and that was completely in character for castiel but like. Its still so much more than him just getting taken by the empty. Its him being explicitly confirmed as queer and then never being shown again. Its the fact that fans have wanted this for a literal decade and when we finally got some hope, they fucking spat in our faces like this. Castiel was a comfort character to so many people. We've seen him grow for almost as long as we've been watching Sam and Dean grow up. Hes the reason the show lasted for so damn long, for fucks sake. And the last we got to hear of our comfort character was a little prank phone call used to elicit a reaction from a character to get the audience excited. Why get our hopes up like that? Why have all of this build up all season, just to never follow through on it? Why make us so happy if they were going to make us crash and burn like this? Why angel-bait us for the past 2 episodes knowing that we were never gonna see him again?

This feels like such a big fuck you to me as a queer fan and as a fan who love castiel so much. I can even being to imagine how Misha must feel. I loved this show so bad. This show has made me so happy. It was a beacon during one of the hardest times in my life. I've felt in ways I never even knew I could feel because of Supernatural these past three weeks. And now every single memory is fucking tainted with the knowledge that my favorite characters never get what they deserve. We never get the happy ending that we were watching for. All their sacrifices and they're very reason for fighting seemed to mean nothing in the end. All this character developement over the course of 15 years to make the brothers less codependent and to show that ended up meaning nothing too.

I wish I could stop crying over this fucking show. This ending doesn't deserve my tears, but I just feel so betrayed.

#What do you do when you need comfort because of your comfort show??#spn #spn finale #spn spoilers #supernatural #dean winchester #castiel #deancas #destiel #spn meta

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astudyinfreewill · 3 years

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if it’s too broke, don’t fix it

so let’s be clear about one thing.

i will be writing fix-it content for the way supernatural ended, because guess what, honk honk!! i’m a clown 🤡 and as it turns out when you spend your formative coming-out-of-the-closet years invested in TV’s longest queerbait, it’s not so easy to just stop caring. go figure.

but i will not be writing fix-it for 15x20, for a simple reason: to me, it’s unfixable.

look. i am more or less convinced by this point - by looking at the internal narrative, the meta analyses, the reactions of the various cast and crew, and behind-the-scenes evidence compiled by fans far more dedicated and detail-oriented than i - that some executive fuckery happened to the ending. nothing else makes sense, nothing else explains an episode that surreally bad, nothing else explains why the run time was so much shorter than usual and why the pacing felt so clunky and stilted, if not last-minute cuts. so, sure. i’m on board. the network got cold feet and decided to axe whatever destiel content the writers may have worked in (probably too little and too late, but that’s by the by). i can even believe they had a hand in the disappearance of eileen - a long-standing love interest, a deaf character, and of course, most importantly, a woman, from the final two episodes, because everything has to be about the brodependency, of course, of course.

however, even if you take into account the possible/very likely “no homo” revisions, you’re still left... with the rest of the episode. you’re still left with dean winchester - a character overwhelmingly read as bisexual, an abuse survivor, the poster child for PTSD both mundane and supernatural (no pun intended)... dying young on a random hunt. and this wasn’t the result of last-minute executive meddling: this was the plan from the start of season 15, and it’s why jensen struggled so much last year with accepting the finale (rather than any ~homophobic feelings~ about 15x18, which he only got the script for a couple months in advance and was reportedly completely fine with). and sure, there’s a chance executives may have had a hand in that too, but at the moment we have no evidence to believe so.

dean started the series as a traumatized kid who’s been turned into a weapon by a physically and emotionally absent father, an unforgiving and unloving man who raised him to believe his only purpose in life was to look after his younger sibling, whether that meant saving him or killing him. dean was parentified from at least as young as the age of 8, left to do the physical and emotional labour his father should have been doing for both him and sam. dean spent much of the series borderline suicidal, believing he had no intrinsic worth beyond what he could sacrifice to keep others safe. dean spent much of the series believing he would always die young and bloody, that sam was the only one of the two of them who would get to live a full life.

and the show decided to end by confirming all of that, by killing dean off as soon as he’d finally found freedom from destiny. and not even in a blaze of glory for some higher purpose, no-- he was killed off on a random case in what i’m sure some writer felt was a delightful example of ~tragic irony~. well, guess what? i’m not laughing. you lead viewers on an emotional journey for 15 years, they’re going to want catharsis at the end. this? this was the opposite of catharsis. i don’t know if there is an opposite of catharsis, but the internet suggests defilement (probably a good enough translation of the greek miasma) and that feels about right.

and that kind of defilement doesn’t serve the story, either-- because dean spent the later seasons coming to accept that maybe he could have a happy ending, that maybe he did deserve to retire, to enjoy his life, to finally rest - and he definitely didn’t mean rest in peace. the narrative led us on this journey of seeing an abused, PTSD-crippled character start to want more for himself - only to rip all that out from under him in the name of misguided ~high stakes drama. probably because happy endings for everyone are boring and cliché’d and having a ~shocking conclusion is better than having a good conclusion (s/o GOT finale). growth? healing? coming to see yourself in a better light and demanding more for yourself? unrealistic.

well, miss me with that shit. as a bisexual person who took a long time to come to terms with my identity, as an eldest daughter, as someone who deeply believes in the narrative idea of humanity trying and trying and trying until they finally reach happiness - fucking miss me with that gratuitous tragedy shit. i want soft epilogues. i want endings tied with a ribbon. i think we - especially the queer community, especially women, especially people who’ve struggled with low self worth and mental health - deserve it by now.

so, you see, it’s not so much that i can’t write a fix-it for 15x20. in fact, it would be simple enough to do - tragedy is easy to spin into emotional content. which i promise is not a dig at people writing or enjoying that kind of content, because i’ve read some myself, and it has been excellent; more power to you all. all i’m saying is it would be easy enough to write dean getting to heaven and seeing jimmy novak castiel in that roadhouse, whether or not kansas is playing. it would be easy enough to write dean driving to cas and them meeting under a starry sky, ‘the night we met’ playing in the background as it was originally meant to in 15x20, and to imagine them having a tearful, bittersweet, at least we finally have each other reunion.

the truth is that i won’t. i refuse to. even if i believe that the writers would have given us a destiel endgame if not for executive interference - and that still remains to be definitively seen - it’s not the endgame i would have wanted. it’s not the endgame we deserve after 15 fucking years.

queer characters shouldn’t have to die for the right to be happy. we deserve a soft epilogue - and i’ll write my own, damn it.

#spn #dean winchester #meta #spn meta #spn negativity #spn finale fiasco #ambra.txt #long post

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hereholdmyanxiety · 3 years

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let’s talk about That scene

Look I have some thoughts about this Destiel thing. bear with me.

I don’t watch Supernatural anymore. I haven’t for a few years. I didn’t so much quit as much as I just let it fade into the background as something that I used to like.

But then, amongst my frantic scrolling of election twitter, I saw the tag trending, so I watched the video. my first reaction was to scream; I did a lot of disbelieving laughing and shocking silence. But then I started crying uncontrollably, and I realized that it wasn’t because I was happy about Destiel (or DeanCas, whatever you like) finally becoming canon.

Preface: Misha’s performance was earth-shattering and I will not do him the disservice of criticizing it.

Cas confesses his love and adoration for Dean, he acknowledges Dean’s self-hatred and simultaneously affirms that Dean is not a bad person. He outright says he loves Dean. It’s tearful and glorious, and just as fate would have it: Cas is taken by the empty before Dean, shellshocked, has time to say anything at all.

THIS is what we asked for right? what we begged for for 12 years. But I found myself saying: Yes, we won...but am I supposed to be happy about this?

I get it, it’s SPN’s prerogative to be dark and shocking; people even expected something like this because the show was coming to an end. (Let’s be honest, most of us are expecting an 11th hour return anyway). But I don’t think that shock value or tying up loose ends (or whatever) justifies putting a character through the oldest trope in the book: fridging your gay character right when they have a chance at happiness.

Here’s where I’m going to get a bit personal:

I read a ton of Destiel fanfic with all the tropes and angst and fluff; I watched a lot of fan edits, I consumed a lot of fan theories. I used the fandom to distract me from depression and life. Unfortunately, when I left the fandom, I think I unknowingly left a lot of emotions tied to the characters and Destiel from a very confusing time in my life. I realize now that I started to distance myself from the show when I realized I was queer (bear with me).

All these edits and fics and theories (and actual canon) dragged me down because I saw myself in Dean: full of angst, self-loathing, and maybe a bit of internalized homophobia. I was already confused and hurting and so I stopped participating in the fandom because I was tired of the queer-baiting and also to keep myself from ah - unconsciously relating to Dean I guess? (y’all I just realized my feelings on half this stuff today so im just vomiting out feelings right now.)

I think what hurt me most about this scene (and what finally made me cry) was not the confession or even Cas’ death, but the fact that Dean never got the chance to respond and was left with his soul ripped out sobbing on the floor. We know Dean, we’ve watched his character develop and grow for fifteen years and we know that he’s going to sit in guilt and misery because he never said anything back to Cas before he was killed. (this is assuming we don’t get the consolation of Cas coming back at the last minute.)

The writers gave the fans the canon confirmation they wanted, but the only way they could fathom doing it was by killing off one character and leaving the other one destroyed without a chance to reciprocate.

(Not to bring another fandom into this, but this seems a lot like Rey and Kylo in the new Star Wars: they gave [some] fans what they wanted, but immediately killed a character so that they didn’t have to do the labor to find out how a prolonged relationship would work in canon).

So, yes. Destiel is canon. But again I have to ask: with the way canon was revealed, is this a victory that we’re supposed to be happy about?

(p.s.: I'm not trying to shit on your happiness if this ship confirmation WAS your cup of tea, I just had a lot of thoughts and wanted to just put my perspective out there.)

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