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novantinuum · 30 days

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Pink Onyx AU- An Analysis and Theory Post, Part 1

[Part 1- You are here!] | [Part 2] | [Part 3] | [Part 4] | [Part 5]

Howdy! Those of you who have followed me for a while have probably been seeing my reblogs of the @pink-onyx-au comic made by @ceephorsshitshow. Well, today I wanna share with you something a little different than my usual SU meta… because today I’m gonna analyze this really cool fan work with the same level of seriousness as I do canon. (Like. Seriously. This first post alone is really, really long. I put most of it under a cut.)

This particular comic is a very special one for me to watch unfold, because it’s evident that a lot of deep care and attention to detail has been poured into its creation. There’s fascinating bits of expanded character development to chew into here, as well as plenty of mysteries and lingering questions for us readers to muse and theorize over. If you follow me for Steven Universe and haven’t read this AU yet I highly recommend you check it out. The most basic pitch is that it explores what a fusion between Steven and Jasper might look like, and does a LOT of deep-diving into the similarities and differences of both of those characters’ psyches.

Here’s the episode masterpost on tumblr.

And you can find it on Tapas, too!

(Note: For the purposes of these posts, I was given permission by the comic artist to post screenshots of various pages where relevant in this discussion. For each frame used I will list the episode and page number for easy reference. Additionally, this post and all future ones on the topic will contain full spoilers for the comic thus far.)

Now with all that introductory stuff out of the way, here we go!

So, on the final page of the most recent update, we get one hell of a visual plot bomb for Steven as ol’ Onyx unfuses:

(Episode 9: Page 22)

He’s now visually expressing remnants of his corruption, where before he was not.

And it’s this mysterious plot point in particular that got me wanting to analyze this comic more deeply in the first place. This is completely new for him in this story. Thus far, he’s never expressed any of these remnants when he’s just himself- not in the way Jasper does. So it made me wonder… how might this shift in his appearance play into the ultimate trajectory of the plot? How does Steven suddenly showcasing corruption scars integrate into the larger story that is being spun here about him and Jasper and how they relate to each other?

Well, there’s a lot of comic details and story lore we need to unpack first before I can take my best theorizer’s stab at this. Let’s dig right in.

Prelude: The analyst’s treasure is in the speech bubbles

Anyone who’s been a fan of this comic for a while has probably noticed these fun visual details already, but I’m going to take a moment to break down what I believe each speech bubble style signifies for folks who may not have context. It’ll make some of my analysis later a bit easier, too, ahah.

So. Speech bubbles. What kinds do we have here?

(Episode 1: Page 6)

Style number one: Solid with black text

This style is standard for non-fused characters, and is also utilized when a fused character is speaking whilst in a state of internal harmony.

Steven is pink and Jasper is orange, of course. Onyx’s speech bubbles are a distinct darker pink, and the main three Crystal Gems get their own colors as well. More minor characters get white bubbles.

(Episode 1: Page 10)

Style number two: Scribbly pink lettering overlaying black text

Whenever you see this type of speech bubble, it’s a sign that there is some level of internal discord going on within Steven or Onyx that is related to their diamond side. It usually shows up when one of the two is in pink mode, but from what I can tell this is not a solid rule.

(Episode 2: Page 12)

Style number three: Pink/orange mixed bubbles

This is how we see Onyx talking for a good portion of the early comic. Their speech bubbles are a clean mix of Steven’s pink and Jasper’s orange. And most vitally, the color on the top and the tail signifies which of them is “fronting” at that moment.

(Episode 3: Page 11)

Style number four: White bubble with solid pink text

So far, this style has only been used to represent dialogue that is being spoken by Steven’s gem half exclusively. Which makes things very interesting, as in Steven’s own remembrances of shattering Jasper on the very first page of the comic, the line “I have been holding back!” is shown in this specific style, instead of the scribbly pink lettering that signifies internal discord.

There is one additional sub-style here- and this is the one moment where we get Onyx’s mixed bubble but WITH the solid pink text.

(Episode 3: Page 11)

I believe these two styles pretty much mean the same thing… only, the white/pink text is either viewed within memory or a metaphoric fusion mindscape where we the viewer are actually “seeing” Steven’s instability, and thus can “see” his gem half as a separate entity there. While, in reality, this is an argument Onyx is having with the disparate pieces of themself.

(Episode 4: Page 9)

Style number five: Pink/orange tye-dye mixed bubbles

When you see that darker shade of pink start dappling into the standard mixed bubbles, this indicates that there are small whispers of Onyx’s true personality beginning to surface, instead of them constantly being wrested back and forth between Steven and Jasper’s conscious control.

(Episode 4: Page 16)

Style number six: Pink/orange mixed bubbles, but with a darker pink tail

From this page onwards, Onyx’s speech bubbles always have their darker pink shading the tail no matter who is fronting. Sometimes there are little lines of another color etched out of it, and sometimes the tail is solid dark pink. I like to believe that when it’s solid, it means that Onyx is just a little closer to reaching a fully harmonious state than when it’s not.

(Episode 9: Page 6)

Style number seven: Onyx speech/thought bubbles with a hint of pink/orange underlying

This style seems to signify moments where it’s still Onyx fully in control of themself and their actions/words/thoughts, but they’re taking subtle influence from their components or accessing their memory a bit.

These are all of the distinct styles I have caught so far, but quite honestly, it would not surprise me if I am missing something. All of this to say… pay close attention to the speech bubbles. They can tell you a lot about Onyx’s state of mind throughout the story.

Now with all this established, I’d like to finish off this first post with my first big discussion point.

Question One: What does Jasper actually know about Steven’s “meltdown,” if anything?

The AU author recently solidified this comic’s placement in the SUF timeline in an ask response, saying that the first episode takes place just a week after Steven’s corruption event.

I’m glad this point was clarified, because it was super vital information which deeply influenced the way I analyzed Steven’s actions and responses in my recent re-read… it means this experience is still super raw for him. This is VERY important and we’ll get back to this in more depth later in future posts. But first, let’s explore what Jasper knows of this event.

The full extent of her knowledge is unclear-

(Episode 1: Page 6)

In Episode 1, Steven briefly alludes to his corruption as seen above… referring to it as “[his] meltdown.” Notably, Jasper does not seem to ask any questions about this stray comment. This COULD suggest that she knows what happened to him a week prior via hearsay, but given the context of the rest of the scene and the fact that she’s as isolated as she is out here I genuinely wonder if she thinks Steven’s so-described “meltdown” is his shattering of her.

This idea would make a good deal of sense, as she doesn’t start to make any commentary on the topic of corruption at all until they’re actually fused- with Steven bringing it up first.

(Episode 2: Page 14)

On this page, Steven takes note of Onyx’s very visible spikes (which are Overtly in the same placement as his own when he was corrupted), and initiates the musing upon his own corruption himself.

With the way Jasper phrases her response, the vibe I get is that she somehow gleans a bit of ambient shared knowledge about what happened to him through their fusion.

(Episode 2: Page 15)

“That human form you wear must have been hiding your markings.” This quote is SUPER vital. We’ll come back to this later on in this post series, too.

(Episode 2: Page 15)

It’s clear that Jasper doesn’t REALLY understand what he went through or what caused it, since she then outright mistakes the casual woes and body pains of organic life as corruption. (As seen above.)

(Episode 8: Page 4)

But later on, she outright relates to him over their shared experience of past corruption, so she must at least know enough from mere ambient thought-sharing by this point to recognize it happened.

It’s obvious that she’s barely scratched the surface on fully understanding her fusion partner, though. Neither of them have. It’s gonna take a lot of fusion, comedic mishaps, and genuine conversation to get there. All in good time, I’m sure.

Please do join me tomorrow at 7am PST for the next post in this series! This has been a blast to write up and muse upon.

#su #su future #steven universe #jasper #pink onyx #su meta #pink onyx au #my post stuff

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zevraholics · 8 months

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ZevWarden Week 2023

What is it? A week (this year, November 5th - 11th) of creating new content, sharing it, and celebrating the wonderful relationship between Zevran Arainai and Grey Warden(s) of your choice. How to participate: Feel free to follow the daily prompts as inspiration for whatever ZevWarden-related content your heart desires. Fics, art, meta discussions - everything goes! Remember to tag your works appropriately (ie. #nsfw. Also see our full tag list here.) Most of all, have fun!

Prompts:

Sunday, November 5: Tradition and Trying New Things

Monday, November 6: Secrets, Kept and Told

Tuesday, November 7: Fear and Safety

Wednesday, November 8: Work and Pleasure

Thursday, November 9: Bodies and Minds

Friday, November 10: Favourite Things and Pet Peeves

Saturday, November 11: Family, Lost and Found

Tag your content with #zevwarden week 2023 or @zevraholics on your post and we’ll reblog it here.

*Any art found to be whitewashing Zevran will not be shared.

Day 1 - Sunday, November 5 - Tradition and Trying New Things

"It's Antivan tradition to throw coins in such a well as this. Supposedly it brings one luck." Which traditions (cultural, familial, personal) do Zevran and the Warden have in common, and which are different? Are there any that are unfamiliar at first, but one of them shares with the other? What are ways the two of them break with the past, forge their own paths, or maybe even create new traditions?

Day 2 - Monday, November 6 - Secrets, Kept and Told

Morrigan, "Are [the Crows] so powerful simply because they are very good at what they do? Or is there some secret to their power?" Zevran, "If there were a secret, it would only remain so if it were not told, my dear." What secrets do Zevran and the Warden keep from other people? From each other? Are there any consequences of keeping secrets, positive or negative? What truths eventually reach the light of day, and how does that reveal come about?

Day 3 - Tuesday, November 7 - Fear and Safety

"You mean you want to hear about the grueling training? Being locked in an oubliette for weeks at a time? The slavery? The festering injuries? Or are we seeking something more glamorous?" / "Oh, those things never happened to me." There are stand-out moments of fear in the life of any Grey Warden or an Antivan Crow. Share a time one or both of them were terrified. Did they face fear bravely, or did it get the better of them? What was the impact of that moment? Or, share a story about a time the two of them found safety, comfort, or calm. How did that feeling come about? Was it short-lived or long lasting?

Day 4 - Wednesday, November 8 - Work and Pleasure

"Falling down a flight of stairs is an adventure. Falling into someone's bed? Also an adventure. I am assuming what you're looking for are professional anecdotes." How much adventuring do Zevran and the Warden get up to after Origins, either together or on their own? What jobs or titles do they come to have, what anecdotes do they have to tell? Or do they settle down for a quiet life somewhere—either restlessly or happily?

Day 5 - Thursday, November 9 - Bodies and Minds

Alistair, "So those... designs you have all over your back..." Zevran, "They're called tattoos. And I have them in many more places than just on my back, my friend." What stories do Zevran and the Wardens' bodies tell? How have their bodies changed over time? How do they carry themselves, or use gestures or mannerisms? What about a time when they ran, swam, fought, or enjoyed other physical movement? Or focus your work on a part of the body - eyes, hands, hair, scars.

Day 6 - Friday, November 10 - Favorite Things and Pet Peeves

"I fancy many things. I fancy things that are beautiful and things that are strong. I fancy things that are dangerous and exciting.Would you be offended if I said I fancied you?" What are Zevran and the Warden's favorite things about each other? How did they discover those favorite things—slowly over time, or in one particular moment? What things get on their nerves about the other person? Is this something they make an effort to change, or does their partner just have to learn to live with it?

Day 7 - Saturday, November 11 - Family, Lost and Found

"Surely your life has not been so idyllic? People like you and I are not the product of happy lives of contentment, after all." Maybe the Warden resonates with that particular line from Zevran, maybe they don't. What does being part of a family mean to the Warden and Zevran? Does the answer change across different points in their lives? If they regard each other as part of a family, is there anyone else involved in their family? (Friends, other lovers, biological or adopted children, elders?)

#zevwarden week 2023 #zevwarden week #zevwarden #zevran x warden #zevran arainai #zevran #dragon age #dragon age origins #dragon age fanfiction #dragon age fanart #zevraholics anonymous

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olderthannetfic · 1 month

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https://www.tumblr.com/olderthannetfic/749218521745145857/while-i-love-some-queergay-whatever

“Kissing on the forehead isn’t necessarily romantic” makes sense if we are talking about a work of media that is made in a time/place where that was a common thing between same gender platonic friends.

But are you, anon? Or are you talking about like, a piece of Western mass media from the past 50 years? Or are you talking about anime — because if anything, kissing is even more loaded in Japan than it is in the West, especially if there are other people around. (Lots of people in anime fandom love to use “but Japanese culture” arguments to no homo, but are banking on no one reading them actually knowing jack shit about Japanese culture — because it’s almost never true or based on any real Japanese cultural difference, there’s just making shit up. It assumes people will take for granted anything that frames Japan as “foreign and inscrutable and impossible for Westerners to understand” which is just Orientalism tbqh)

Just saying, because I almost never see this shit said about like, a novel from 1820 or something from a culture like, say, some Middle Eastern countries where men kissing other men platonically is a thing…. and almost always see it said about current media from a culture where kissing on the forehead would be seen as something you’d likely not do to a platonic friend of the same gender.

You can’t “impose your cultural norms” on something from the same culture as you lol, or something from another culture that has the same norm! And an (for example) American assuming that modern American media plays by the rules of modern American culture and seeing it through that lens, doesn’t necessarily mean that American is unaware that different norms exist in different cultures. But like… it just makes sense to analyze a current American show for American audiences set in America in the modern day through the cultural standards of 2020s America and not, say, Bangladesh or Namibia or 1850s America.

And on another note, if you were as much of a fan of “queer readings” as you claim to be, you’d know that they often have little to do with authorial intent. In fact, it’s often specifically about reclaiming media that didn’t have you in mind as the audience.

(Seriously, I really doubt you have read many of those queer readings, bc if this bothers you so much, the stuff queer studies academics and cultural critics see as “gay subtext” in old Hollywood movies — hell, the stuff that gay, bi and sympathetic-straight directors and actors and writers often very much INTENDED as gay subtext in those movies — would make your brain explode.)

Anyway, we’ve all been in fandoms where there’s a ship some people insist has a ton of subtext but it’s just two guys sharing a scene occasionally and they just WANT to believe it’s there when it isn’t, and it can be annoying sure if there are so many people insisting this that it’s inescapable and becoming fanon that affects the fic about the ships you like, or if they’re pushy and sanctimonious about it. (My current fandom has a group of people who insist the only reason other people don’t see all the “subtext” for their random rarepair is racism or something, and then ignore how much textual stuff they have to deliberately leave out or misinterpret for their reading to “work” lol. Like scenes where their starry eyed expression is directed at a different character and that’s obvious in the actual episode but not in their selectively edited gif set or meta post.) But that is not the same as doing that with KISSING ON THE FOREHEAD ffs. And also, let’s not pretend that slash (or femslash) shippers are the worst offenders, like het shippers — and the broader culture — doesn’t constantly treat “a man and a woman interact” as meaning “they could/should be a couple,”

If you’re not bothered by that, but you’re bothered by when people do it with two men or two women… yeah you gotta ask yourself why that is. I have an idea why, and it’s not bc of your greater cultural open mindedness lol

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luminalunii97 · 2 years

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Just so you know, the revolution here has changed from civil disobedience to actual war. Our regime is using all their military power to suppress the protesters.

I've drafted a series of posts about all the beauty iranians have been making these last two months. I don't know when I'll post them but I will.

To follow the updated news on Iran revolution follow 1500tasvir or iranwire on Twitter or Instagram. I'll be busy enough to not be able to share all the news. The best I can do is to complete and post my drafts.

In case you want to help the revolution:

Ask your representatives in government to close Islamic Republic embassy in your country and fire their diplomats. This regime doesn't have legitimacy therefore they don't need ambassadors anywhere.

Email and message UNICEF and UN and demand Justice. UNICEF social media is filled with sunshine and rainbows when iranian children are being murdered by our blood thirsty regime. I know it's not something new and it's been the case with many other nations like Palestinians. Today is the day you can practice demanding justice for everyone. It doesn't need to be limited to Iranians.

Email and message Meta co. to stop deleting Iranians posts about their revolution. It's getting ridiculous. Social media is the only thing Iranians have to communicate with each other, that's why Islamic Republic wants to take that away from us so desperately. Meta is doing them favors here. The number of Instagram stories calling for protests in different cities being deleted because "it's against our community guidelines" is high. I didn't know "call for sit down strike" could be against anyone's guidelines except the islamic republic.

Come to iranian demonstrations in your country if you can. That'll be very appreciated. But it's not a necessity. Sending those emails I mentioned above is a lot more important.

Thank you in advance and wish us luck.

#iran #mahsa amini #iran protests #iran news #iran revolution #iranian #free iran #human rights #politics #children #middle east #middle east politics #middle east matters too #muslim #feminism #democracy #equality #islamic republic of iran #islamic republic vs iran

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huginsmemory · 1 year

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hi :) 🔥 maybe for vashwood or just trigun in general

Hello, and why thank you for the ask! This is a spicy one hahaha. Uhm, I definitely do have a few bones to pick with vashwood and trigun, and yup if you're like oh no is this about stampede (cough, low hanging fruit...) Then. Uhm. yeah it is. Sorry. I have a few thoughts about it, and why I really dislike (sorry stampede enjoyers) the choices for the characterization for Vash and Wolfwood, including the feminization of Vash. And also... how part of these characterizations are related to classical yaoi shipping dynamic tropes and how it may or may not be intentional (I'm gifting u a conspiracy haha). And then my own opinions on these changes and the reception of the new characterizations. These thoughts have been rolling around in my brain for a while but I wasn't sure if I wanted to post it since it's a bit spicy. But. Well. This is as good a sign as any.

I'll be going over the differences in Wolfwoods characterization, in Vash's characterization and his feminization in stampede, and then how this relates to yaoi shipping dynamics and Vashwood fandom reception (and my personal feelings around it...).

Also, this ended up being... Really long. Oops. I've highlighted the TLDR paragraphs in red for those who want to skim. If u want to just be like, wow spicy take with no context... Go to the last paragraph lol.

Preface and acknowledgement

I want to preface this with that I haven't actually watched Stampede, although I have quite heavily engaged with secondary material about it, ie gifs, meta posts, etc. So I suppose one can take my opinions with a grain of salt; to really form a full opinion on the series, I would have to watch stampede myself, of which I have zero time to do and maybe at one point I'll get around to. This is also why I've been reluctant to get into my thoughts... but from what I've seen of it, I've got a few bones to pick.

Yes, I may be a bit of a hater (ah... such a strong word...) but I do want to acknowledge that stampede has revived the trigun fandom, and hell, I wouldn't have read the manga without it. So credit where credits due, and it's very exciting to engage with the fandom for the first time and see it grow so much in such a short time. Also, yes, I am one of those people who watched the 98 version quite a while ago, so for me it's something that is nostalgic. Call me blinded by nostalgia all u want. If stampede is what first got you into trigun-- congrats! I'm not here to invalidate your experience; stampede is simply another iteration of trigun (even if I disagree with some of the characterizations), and I highly recommend you check out the manga as well. I'm very happy to have you here in the fandom!

Wolfwood's characterization

As some other people have noted here- stamp!ww is a bit different then ww in trimax or the 98, while the cut-copy-paste of the tragic orphange background stays the same (Nightow, you're so over the top. I love it).

Within 98 and trimax, ww is a bit rough around the edges, but is overall friendly, kind, charismatic and a bit goofy (a character trait these ww's share with Vash, which they both use it in a way to mask their darker parts of their lives). Sure, wolfwood in these iterations have zero issues calling people out on their bullshit and is willing to manipulate people around him into doing the greater good- but is shown to be gruffly genuinely caring about people when he can help (especially children), even if he still chooses to kill people when it comes down to it. This can be seen with 98!ww getting Vash to sign up for the tournament to help the single mum and her kid, and the way trimax!Wolfwood treats Milly during the midvalley fight because he's worried about her getting seriously injured, even going to the point of injuring her himself. Sure, he's not going to declare his care verbally to people, but he doesn't need to do that when he's actively doing things that clearly shows he cares for people, especially those he's created ties to, even if he chooses to be violent/forceful when he believes what he is doing is for the best.

This charismatic friendliness and kindness is generally stripped from Stamp!Wolfwood; sure, he cares deep down as is displayed by the orphange and his concern later in the series for Vash, but through his actions with others, there's a noticible lack of general feeling of kindness behind his overstepping of people boundaries compared to og!ww. As another user in here put it, Stamp!ww is a bit of a dick. He has harsh commentary to the group and one of the first things you do is see him rip off Meryl and Roberto with his undertaker job over literal dead bodies when he's introduced. Nor does he really get to be redeemed through showing his care for children, such as at the bus stop where he gives away most of his money or food to begging children, opting to go hungry himself; it instead being replaced by him giving a lolipop to Zazie... which doesn't count for shit. This post by chibivesicles does a really good job of summarizing it from the fourth episode.

ID: 3 images, each of different iterations of Wolfwood giving something away to a child. First is 98, with ww giving away two of his three food ration bars to two scruffy children, the second from the manga with ww giving away two of his three coins to two scruffy children while Vash watches on, and the third with ww offering a sucker to Zazie while Meryl and Vash watch on.

Overall, the gist I've gotten of Stampede's iteration is that they very much boxed Wolfwood into the typical anime tsundere black-haired brooding character, stripping out his previous goofy and friendly charisma as well as his general feeling of kindness to fit that character trope better.

Vash's Characterization

Vash within 98 and trimax is also pretty different from stamp!Vash; I find this difference to specifically come from stamp!Vash feeling more naive, less driven and well--a bit spineless. The differences come down to two things; Vash having a strong moral spine which he is willing to call people out on due to righteous anger and Vash being emotionally detached from the people around him. Sure, og Vash (going to just use this to refer to 98 and trigun manga together) is goofy, cheerful and shows his emotions on his sleeve, but he doesn't actually let people become close to him. It's delibrate, and most of it specifically revolves around obfuscating that he's a plant and his goal of trying to chase Knives down; thus, he adopts a lifestyle of travelling and rarely staying long in areas, and so you see that his relationship with people are pretty surface level, even through his friendliness.

Three specific incidents within the series and their differences illustrate the emotional distance, and the righteous fury of og!Vash's in comparison to stamp!Vash. This includes Vash's childhood and relationship to the people on the seeds ship after the fall, Brad questioning their trust in Vash as he isn't human, and Wolfwood killing someone to save Vash.

Firstly, for Vash's childhood after the fall, within stampede he's pretty quickly picked up by the seeds ship, which hosts him, and they immediately are able to identify that he is an independent plant. They know more about him than he knows really about himself, and they also are generally aware about the fall (although not the exact details until later). Vash is raised for a while under their tutelage, and ends up helping heal plants, overall forming bonds with them even if they treat him a bit rough in the beginning, and Luida becomes mom #2.

ID: Screenshot from tristamp, of the photo on Vash's bedroom table, of him with all the seeds ship people he was working with.

In 98, no information is really given, but presumably is something somewhat similar to trimax. In trimax, after the fall Vash literally wanders the wastes with Knives for about 70 years, until Knives cuts Vash's arm off in anger at Vash's insistence that people shouldn't be killed, even when he's literally at the mercy of a town that is going to kill him and sell his organs. It is assumed sometime not long after Vash gets picked up by the seeds ship people, as it is mentioned that theyve known him for 70 years. Vash during these 80 years is very alone, with only his brother as company who is angry and abusive, as is directly pointed out within the manga. The two of them are presumed to be eking out a living travelling around the harsh wastes, and as displayed by the human organ stealing town, it is clear that often human settlements are just another possibility of danger due to crime and violence as a result of limited resources.

ID: two manga pages. First is just a panel showing Vash's flashbacks to violent traumatic instances of his childhood, showing a montage of him yelling, holding a gun, and crouched over a man who is dead and bleeding out looking panicked and horrified.

The second page is Knives while they are traveling together in the desert, looking down at Vash and calling him over. Vash looks at Knives, and he narrates that "It was about 80 years after the fall. Time passed slowly, but we neither grew nor parted. I knew I couldn't leave him alone. That thought alone determined the distance between us." Vash and Knives are clearly distant from each other in the panel, Vash in the foreground and Knives indistinguishable other than a silhouette at the top of the sand dune in the hindground.

In comparison, although it's not easy for Vash either in stampede, his childhood is cushier and less lonely. This loneliness and harsh environment that trimax!Vash exists within adds a depth of experience to his ethics, informing his righteous anger over everything that is morally wrong and should have never been, that makes him speak out, providing him a stronger spine which stamp!Vash doesn't have. This intensely lonely part of his upbringing also gives him an emotional independence, or even detachment, from most people he interacts with, in comparison to stamp!Vash who is emotionally dependent (and seems less mature) due to his ties to the seeds ship people.

As in tristamp, the closest people to Vash in trimax are the people on the seeds ships (also Lina and her grandma, but they don't know who he is when they take him in). Although he's the most open with them (ie, they know about Knives and his plans), during the visit to the seeds ship you are still given the idea that while Vash knows everyone and cares greatly for them, Vash is still generally emotionally independent from them, and doesn't form intimate relationships with people (especially compared to stamp!Vash). Interestingly, the manga implies when they first visit that they don't know what he is exactly, just that he's functionally immortal, as that when Luida talks about him to Wolfwood, she doesn't mention that he's a plant. Overall, compared to the outside people, the people on the seeds ship know more, and are more aware of how to use the old technology (it's also something that is hinted that some of it is possibly taught to them by Vash over the years), but they are not more knowledgeable then Vash, with Vash likely about the same level or more knowledgeable then them about general 'lost tech' and plant related things. As well, the people on the seeds ship in trimax are entirely unaware of circumstances around the fall--and Vash never tells them either. The visit to the seeds ship trimax functions as a way to allow the reader to distinctly comprehend Vash's age, and how Vash is really quite a terribly lonely character, as he is doomed to watch those he cares about die (which also informs why he likely doesn't really let people get very close to him, along with practical matters). This is directly pointed out in Luida's conversation with Wolfwood and Wolfwoods own inner monologue, as well as being alluded to by Jessica's locket, and Brad's grumblings. From the explanations you get the sense that Vash is emotionally independent and in a way, detached from people's opinions of him as a result of his longevity, with his constant travelling only ensuring that.

This is very different to the relationship of stamp!Vash with the seeds ship, as Vash is shown to have emotionally dependant relationships with the people on the seeds ship, with them literally raising him as a child, and this 'parent-child' relationship is only emphasized by them knowing more than Vash does about independent plants. Instead of emphasizing how Vash is old and outside of time, the dynamic gives Vash as a character an overall young and naive slant to his character, even if they still do drop the 'he's 150 years old' line when the stamp gang visits the ship.

This emotional dependence/independence directly corroborates to the differences in Vash's response to Brad's comment on him not trusting him, as something non-human. Within stampede, as Vash is young, he flees, feeling rejected--indicating a strong emotional dependence on those on the seeds ships for acceptance of who he is. However, within Trimax, Vash acknowledges Brad's comment, and actually validates and agrees with Brad's concerns; he's aware enough that who and what he is something to be feared and suspicious of (especially as by this time, the fifth moon incident, and July has occurred) and is worried about this himself; however, he simply requests Brad to trust him in this. Trimax!Vash's is emotionally independent, from Brad's rejection, a person who is part of the community that he is closest to; he accepts what Brad says, but also stands firm on his request from the community and his continued association with them, focused on his goals of stopping Knives. It's a scene that originally shows Vash's emotional independence from what others think of him (although he is saddened by it), and displays his maturity and acceptance when others reject him for who he is.

ID: Five pages of the manga. First page, Brad (in his early 20's) scoffs at Vash being called human. Second, Brad accuses Vash as a plague bringer in light of the fifth moon incident being brought up, grabbing him by his collar. Vash closes his eyes, then looks up at Brad, gaze steely, replying, "yeah that is possible". Third page, Vash asks Brad "Won't... you trust me? Please. Brad?". Vash looks sorrowful but is serious. Fourth page, Brad responds by saying "Ones who live outside of time, huh... In thirteen years... even though my hands have grown this big... You... Haven't really changed at all". The words are over-laid on an image of Brad's small hands reaching up to Vash when he was a child, and a smaller panel has Brad looking disturbed. The fifth page has Brad angrily stomping out of the room calling out "Everyone in the older generation may trust you... But you're not convincing me!". Vash then responds by saying to the older man in the room, that "I see what you mean. From the standpoint of a normal human I must be a monster.".

This is entirely turned on its head within tristamp to a scene that displays emotional dependence on people and an inability to accept rejection, displaying a immature, self-conscious, and younger version of Vash. Obviously, he is still younger at this point, but this immaturity and emotional dependence is one that still persists within the narrative of stampede, and influences your view of Stamp!vash. One could argue that then learning the details of why the ships fell is something Vash feels more guilty about, and so takes Brad's criticism harder, and flees. However, no matter what, this is a immature reaction. Interestingly, this portrayal of Vash having an emotional dependence on humans accepting him, is quite contrary to trimax, as this trait is actually one that specifically emphasized to belong to Knives, while trimax!Vash is shown to be emotionally detached and generally uninterested in their acceptance by humans.

ID: Screencap from stampede, Vash against the door looking shocked and horrified as he hears Brad say "he's never been on the side of us humans!".

The third thing is the scene where Wolfwood kills a man for Vash. Within stampede, Rollo is killed; Vash is angry at Wolfwood for doing so, grabbing Wolfwoods collar, but with a few strong words of a reminder of the harshness of general existence from wolfwood, Vash shuts up and is shown to just be sad, if a bit withdrawn/sulky with Wolfwood. Within Trimax, this scene is technically a rolling together of multiple arcs, but specifically thematically wise is a revamp of when he faces off with Rai-dei the Blade. When Wolfwood kills Rai-dei, Vash literally slaps Wolfwood hard in anger, resulting in them get into a fight, with Wolfwood retaliating by slamming Vash down to the ground in anger, and culminating in him pressing his loaded handgun into Vash hands, pointing it at his own head, and telling him to shoot; Vash then derogatorily calls Wolfwood a coward and they break up the fight, both still very angry at each other. In this, Vash clearly has very strong morals and is unafraid to call Wolfwood out when he transgresses them, full of righteous fury. None of this anger is transposed into stamp!Vash, who just looks sad about all of it; sure, he has values, but they feel like he fumbles with them, unsure and unwilling to speak up for them in an assertive way, crumbling underneath any criticism.

ID: first image is three panels from tristamp, and second is five pages of the manga, both detailing Vash calling out Wolfwood on killing.

First of the three panels has Vash grasping ww collar, looking angry; Wolfwood says "mercy" in response to the unseen question asked by Vash. He then goes on to say "there's no way to return his humanity", and Vash is looking down, fists clenched. Wolfwood continues, saying that "at best, it's all talk" about Vash's beliefs. Vash looks hollow and distressed.

The second, the first page has ww shooting Rai-dei; Vash responds in horror. Second page has Vash slap Wolfwood, yelling "why? Why did you shoot him?! Wolfwood?", to glare up at him. Third page has ww slam Vash onto the ground, Vash looks shocked, arms around his head to protect it. Ww glares down at Vash, saying "are you really such an idiot? If I hadn't shot him, it would be you lying there." Fourth page has Wolfwood holding Vash's hand with his own handgun in it against his forehead. Wolfwood tells Vash to "SHOOT." Fifth panel has Wolfwood telling Vash that he is a chickenshit for not being able to kill him. Vash then responds by calling Wolfwood a coward.

Something that's also interesting about the righteous anger that drives og!vash, is that its specifically because of his righteous anger, that he comes very close to killing people (Monev the gale, and how he's originally in the trigun manga before trimax presumably tracking down Knives to kill him after July, to some degree the rapist in the train)--and violating his ethics. This anger--and Vash's very real possibility of him killing someone out of a feeling of righteous fury, or a feeling of just righteousness--adds further dimension to Vash as a character, because you see that he also struggles with his no kill rule, even if he staunchly stands by it. Which... without this feeling of righteous anger, it takes out Vash's dilemmas around killing others.

To summarize the above, stamp!Vash lacks the righteous anger that og!Vash has around his belief of forgiveness and second chances (of a blank ticket), and as a result fails to confront others assertively when presented with things that go against his beliefs. Stamp!Vash also lacks the emotional independence that he previously had as a result of a harsh and lonely upbringing and his travelling lifestyle and his inability to age; instead he forms an emotional dependence and connections with them. Generally, the two characters have a very different relationship with the people in the seeds ship, which makes trimax vash seem older and more mature, while Stamp!vash feels more young and naive.

Vash and Femininity

Vash as a character has always been portrayed in a somewhat feminine light; Nightow even specifically has said that he purposely designed the angel arm with feminine elements, as the act of creation is correlated to the feminine. In much the same way, plants are drawn feminine, likely to correlate to the same feminine=creation manner. Thus, his relations to the angel arm, and plants he is given a feminine slant to his character. As well, Vash is shown to be open (ie, crying in public multiple times) and shown to be (at least somewhat) emotionally competent with his emotions, as that empathy (and Rem's instructions) is the core of his belief of pacifism and no-kill policy. These emotional related traits are, well, very commonly perceived to be feminine traits. Vash is also quite pretty in a more delicate (feminine) way, especially with his teardrop mole; he's not 'ruggedly' handsome like Wolfwood, in a more traditionally 'masculine' way. As well, Vash as a character is shown to be a more passive character, as the majority of trimax and 98 has the plot occurring to Vash, rather then Vash actively seeking out and causing changes within the narrative. This passivity within the narrative also is commonly found correlated to female roles, who often aren't active agents of the narrative. This can especially be seen in comparison to active 'male' roles, such as is played out by Knives who is majorly making decisions that move the plot forward (although Knives himself has gender fuckery going on. Nightow likes gender fuckery. On a related note, I love u Elendira and I'm so sorry what they did to you in tristamp that's horrendous). This is also related to how repeatedly within trigun the issue of bodily autonomy and choice is brought up--within plants of course, but also Vash's bodily autonomy is clearly violated multiple times, such as within July, and the fifth moon incident by Knives (and this relates, and this immensely good post put it, also to Vash's insistence on not killing, which is the most ultimate form of violation of bodily autonomy). Bodily autonomy (and the lack of it) is also something deeply related to woman's issues (among others, such as general minority groups).

So overall, even within Trimax and 98, Vash is quite clearly traditionally feminine coded, as can be seen in relation to his angel arm, his emotional openness, his physical features of being 'pretty', his passivity within the narrative and his lack of bodily autonomy. However, even within these feminine traits, og!Vash still comes off as masculine; the breadth of his shoulders and triangle shaped body indicates that, as well as his righteous anger and willingness to speak up against ethical issues are typically seen as masculine traits. Within 98 and trimax he's essentially coded as a feminine-leaning man.

Stamp!Vash however, is a different can of worms. His character still carries the feminine traits as is detailed above, but as previously discussed, specifically lacks the righteous anger that gives og!Vash a backbone and a willingness to stand up for transgressions against his ethics. This further emphasis on passivity of Vash strips him of one of the defining 'masculine' traits of anger, further sliding him along the masculine-feminine spectrum to a more feminine character. As well, with the character revamp making Vash more lithe, rather then giving him broad shoulders, and his hair cut is more of a non-binary haircut vs something that could be argued to be more masculine, further effeminates him as a character. Not to mention the work he's been doing, which is being a plant engineer, specifically involves with caring for and nurturing plants--which directly correlates to a emotionally sensitive nurturing role, one which it is also correlated to a feminine role. This especially so when it's shown that this iteration of Vash is clearly emotionally sensitive too and dependant on the people from the seeds ship, another 'feminine' trait. As well, within stampedes Vash rarely fires his gun... In comparison to 98 and trimax, where you see him fire it quite frequently, to incapacitate people. Comfort with firing a gun, and just general use of a weapon is another traditionally masculine trait. Overall, Vash within Stampede is almost entirely devoid of any masculine traits and is comprised of almost all feminine traits--passive both in narrative and in character, feminine in his work, his build, his goddamn haircut, his bodily autonomy-- with basically the only thing not is that he's not canonically female.

Stamp!Vash feminization and Fandom Reception

This has quite obviously been picked up by the fandom, with many people with trans!Vash headcanons. As per my experience of generally keeping an eye on the ao3 feed, in fact, a large majority of Vashwood fanfiction is of afab trans Vash, with another majority of xeno/intersex Vash; in fact, it's a rarity to find a fic specifically detailing a non trans or intersex Vash within the newer AO3 works. Interestingly, this is quite different then the works previously found within Vashwood on AO3, pre-stamp; these works are primarily with a amab non-trans Vash. It'd be interesting to actually run the numbers, but I'm too lazy to do that. This difference I've observed within pre and post stamp I bet is a result of these changes to Vash's character, making him more feminine--and more likely to be pegged (pun intended) as a trans or intersex character, especially one that has a vagina (specifically, vaginal sex within explicit fics is a very common tag within the Vashwood ao3 feed).

Stamp!Vashwood and Yaoi Tropes

Something that has been personally mildly bugging me about the stampede vashwood is the common yaoi trope of when there are two gay characters, one needs to assume to traditionally feminine role (nurturing, emotional, passive), while the other keeps the traditionally masculine role (in charge, often unable/unwilling to express emotions ) within the relationship. As well, a popular trope within the traditionally masculine role is for the character to be tsundere, heavily leaning into the character being emotionally incompetent and just generally being a dick. This... almost too well fits the changes to both Vash and Wolfwoods characters. Stamp!Wolfwood is now squarely a tsundere and a bit of a dick, as well as dark and brooding, rather then a charming if gruff and rough around the edges character that is goofy and kind (but still dark and brooding). In the meantime, Vash is further feminized, his righteous anger replaced by passivity, fitting that role of a female character perhaps a little too well.

The rest of stampede has been heavily revamped to cater to a modern Japanese audience; this can be seen with the use of Japanese ranking systems within the Eye of Micheal that didn't exist, the stripping of a lot of Christian themes from the show, the swap to a sci-fi genre instead of western and the re-vamping of the character designs. In a similar way, revamping the characters into character types and tropes the Japanese audience is familiar with wouldn't be a stretch; and especially so tropes found within yaoi that very easily can invite shipping, if you as a director recognize the potential of Vashwood as a ship to get people invested into a show. Which, quite evidently, the director may aware of, as he's been liking copious amounts of fanart, including Vashwood. He also has a quote attributed to him about how Vash acts as both a female and male character. So, did the feminization of Vash and heavily emphasized tsundere attitude of Wolfwood come about as (at least a part of) a result of a yaoi bait ploy to get people invested into tristamp? Honestly, I don't know, but it fits the tropes so well that some parts of the stamp!vashwood rubs me the wrong way (even if I'm marinating myself within the fandom). It's especially fishy that one of the people involved with the production is liking vashwood stuff shows that people involved in making decisions for the show are aware (and even encouraging) the ship. The fandoms also been around for quite a while, so it would be easy enough to tap into the fandom to see what was popular--and what they could potentially exploit. Interestingly, the way they're setting up tristamp also leans into yaoi bait for Knives x Vash as well, heavily leaning into Knives being like 'everything I did was for you Vash' in an obvious way, which wasn't really the case with trimax... But that's another can of worms. More attention, the better I suppose.

If it's true, characters where changed for more shipping potential, does this matter really? In a grand scheme of things, no. I mean, yaoi bait is obviously utilized in many anime media, just look at Drrr! and the shizuo x izaya ship. The author is plenty aware of what they are doing and leaning hard into it, knowing its popularity, and exploiting that. So it goes. Obviously, its not necessarily a 'bad change' if they decided to change the characters partly for shipping; that's something people get to decide for themselves. Besides, this new iteration of trigun with a more feminine Vash allows for a heavier emphasis on bodily autonomy, especially in regards to femininity as that one post linked above goes into. However, that said, does it matter to me, who is chewing through drywall thinking about the complexities of Wolfwood and Vash and their relationship in trimax? Yeah, absolutely. A little more on that below.

Personal opinions on everything above

If you don't want to read me griping on personally about tristamp then you can just skip this section. It's just me being boring and predictable.

Personally, I miss the og versions of Wolfwood and Vash; I miss the righteous anger that Vash has, I miss their designs and big shoulders and Wolfwoods goofiness and kindness. As well, as much as I love the trans headcanons that are coming out of stampede, as a masc leaning NB individual I really enjoyed the masculine but also emotionally sensitive version of Vash. This especially so as a part of me feels uncomfortable that people look at a male character that is essentially fulfilling a feminine role and go, oh, he's an afab transman, specifically because of his close connotations with femininity. Like, fuck gender expectations and norms and all that, but for me I'm a bit uncomfortable with that assertion (btw this is not me being like u guys need to stop--we're all allowed our opinions, and y'all seem to be enjoying yourself, so go ham I guess). Also, just personally, I've never particularly identified with feminine characters, especially passive female characters, which stamp!Vash very much feels like.

Perhaps part of it is also that I relate a great amount to og!Vash's righteous anger over everything that is occurring, being a part of a cultural minority myself, and being so terribly angry over how I've seen my people be treated. I've also got an abusive sibling with anger issues that lashes out, so seeing Vash struggle with his relationship with Knives, being so terribly angry over everything Knives has put him through (technically, more about others then himself but I digress), along with his confusion and dilemma over still caring about and loving his sibling is also so very validating. So stripping that underlying righteous anger about everything to just make him sad™ makes him less relatable to me. Where is your anger over everything??? where is it?? Come on man, bare your teeth to the world.

Maybe also part of it is also related to just... acknowledging that male characters can be kind. This is probably related to why I dislike that ww has just become a tsundere and kind of a dick. Give him his friendly charisma and kindness back u cowards, I'll beat you with a stick. Dark brooding tsundere's are dime a dozen! Rough around the edges and dangerous but still kind and a bit silly and friendly men who are riddled with guilt? Shiningly beautiful.

Overall, all meta analysis and conspiracy theories (character flattening of wolfwood and vash to fit yaoi tropes) aside, I guess what I'm trying to say is that my 🔥 spicy 🔥 trigun/vashwood opinion is that I don't particularly like this very heavily feminized version of Vash which the fandom seems to be quite happily enjoying. This is both because his righteous anger is stripped out which I relate too and that I (masc NB) feel somewhat uncomfortable that he's often considered a afab transman due to specifically his feminine traits.

EDIT (MAR 27): a post script with further thoughts I suppose, especially after reading this post by @paiteyy , which describes the stripping of more canonical queerness within Stampede--and the way specifically that Meryl seems to be given some of Wolfwoods roles from trimax, in relation to likely making her stampedes 'canonical' ship... in comparison to how trimax Wolfwood and Vash spend a majority of the time together and form deep emotional connections. If they are rearranging tristamp to further cement Meryl into a heavier role of love interest, then it would make sense for her to take over some of Wolfwoods actions. This also falls in line with how they've gone out of their way to give Meryl a bigger backstory and create conditions for character growth... while simultaneously simplifying many of the other characters, especially Wolfwood. Interestingly, this actually falls in line with the tristamp creators being very invested and shuffling things around to fit shipping tropes to rope in a bigger audience; by moving Meryl to the front they can get a canonical het ship for the general audience (much like the 98 version did in a way--cause clearly every show the mc needs a clear love interest), while also ensuring to lean into sub-textual yaoi tropes to rope in others which would be interested in queer ships.

Also photo ID's were added :D

PLUS: here's the link to more of my meta posts if you liked this.

#trigun #trigun meta #trimax #tristamp #trigun manga #trigun maximum #trigun 98 #wolfwood #vash the stampede #nicholas d. wolfwood #opinion peice aha #hugin rambles #hugin speaks #vashwood #yeah its definitely leaning into vash's already present femininity but also. dont like #trigun vash #trigun comparison #theres a few posts about that have definitely helped me coalesce my thoughts #i see u the post about vash's anger #also to the one person that made a comment on the vashwood discord server im in about yaoi tropes. u were the one that really sparked #the coalescing of this thoughts into something more tangible #also yes im aware that tristamp is a prolouge in a way. will they fix the characterization #nah i dont think so #me: do i wanna write up something people might not like. ahhhhh SURE why not #to my two friends ive already talked the ear off about this who didn't know shit what i was talking about i dedicate this post to u #also yeah yeah im aware trimax is not all of the trigun manga but look. look. i dont eant to write out trimanga or some shit. trimax is #fast. easy. perfect for my lazy lil ass #me: am i gonna actually verify my observations like a good person who talks about meta?#my lazy ass: nah this is fine actually. secondary sources only baby!!!#god why is this. so long

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ingravinoveritas · 9 months

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I saw this image in a meta post by vroomvroom.... Though to share it with you so as to brighten up your day XD

Haha well thank you so much! This is quite lovely, as there are few things more gorgeous than Sheen booty...other than the man said arse is attached to, of course. I actually had a really rough day at work yesterday--which is why I haven't answered Asks/temporarily turned off Asks entirely, because there are so many in my inbox and I didn't want to disappoint yet more of my followers by being behind in answering them-so this is just the pick-me-up that I needed.

I will also say that we talk a lot about the costume choices for Crowley and how tight David's trousers are, but there is something to be said for excellent tailoring--regardless of tightness. Aziraphale's trousers are not tight, but they are perfectly tailored and show off Michael's shape gorgeously. I know Michael had some input into Aziraphale's clothing choices, but it's just amusing to me that he's supposed to be so "stuffy" and "soft," yet when you put those clothes on Michael, it's all softness underlined by barely concealed strength and muscle, which is quite visually appealing, albeit in a completely different way to David/Crowley.

So yes, I very much appreciate this delightful gift, and you thinking of me when you saw it. xD Thanks for writing in! x

#yami-no-kokoro #reply post #good omens #aziraphale #michael sheen #welsh seduction machine #also gratuitous arse shot FTW #michael's ass in those pants should be illegal though #aziraphale is an underappreciated beauty #back on my Michael thirsting bullshit yet again #discourse

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ambu1on · 5 months

Text

Welcome and hello!

This is a blog/askblog dedicated to Ambulon, but I wanted to try something potentially interesting with this instead of going into it blind like I used to, so you'll get all the info you need below.

Askbox is currently open.

Some information about Ambulon of this blog:

The present time of the blog is an alternate universe where Ambulon has survived being sawed in half by Pharma. It is a Lost Light post-canon. Which one? Oh, you know.

You are a member of the crew, and Ambulon will refer to you as a single person (especially anonymous), unless you specify otherwise! Please don't try to break the fourth wall or refer to tumblr - don't involve Chromedome into this (/joke).

Ambulon is a very private person. You can ask him about his job, his opinions, or thoughts on different topics, but to get an answer for a personal question about his past or his relations with others, you'll have to fill in the Trust Meter!

To fill in the Trust Meter, all you have to do is ask him about different things and give him the reason to trust you. It will be indicated at the bottom of the post as "Trust: +1 | n/100". Trust Meter does not overlap among each individual person. Keep in mind that it can be reduced.

Everything said from his pov is going to be in yellow.

Ambulon and First Aid are conjunx endurae, and Ambulon is an unofficial part of the Protectobots and Defensor.

Asking First Aid, Ratchet, or Velocity questions is possible, but it is a matter of chance if they answer those, as I will be rolling a dice for that.

Ambulon is your tamagotchi. Take care of him, and he will love you forever. It's not a joke btw.

Misc:

Mod is very busy and very tired all the time so there's no schedule to speak of, but I will try to keep the blog active at least with sharing art and whatnot related to the medical crew. To prevent my burn out, I can't promise individually drawn answer for each ask - I'll have to use my pre-drawn images. My headcanons will play a huge role and there's a huge chance Ambulon's gestalt will appear eventually. Feel free to ask any specifications or again, headcanons, to have a better idea of what kind of creature Ambulon is, or just general questions regarding the worldbuilding and transformers, cuz they Will differ from the canon a little.

Hope we all have fun here!

General tags:

#[he has something to say] - Ambulon pov posts #[curious much] - replies to asks #[it's rather personal] - Ambulon lore unlocked #[sharing is caring] - art/writing/meta reblogs #[he's a gearstick sometimes] - when i feel like talking about Ambulon or whatever else #.divine echoes - me talking about whatever the hell

Character tags:

#.it's a stupid name - Ambulon

#.show some initiative - First Aid

#.think of all the patients - Ratchet

#.dr djd - Pharma

#.we doctors stick together

#.hey super-soldier - Drift

#.just an mto - Getaway

#.pipes - Pipes

#pinned

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twig-tea · 4 months

Text

Love in the Big City Part 1: Reliable and Unreliable Narration

This post will be a ramble capturing of my reactions and thoughts and linking other meta where it applies. I did think about the discussion questions by @bengiyo but haven't set out specific question-by-question answer per se.

[if you don't know what this is about, check out the initial post about the book club, and if you'd like to join, here's the post with the overall schedule]

First, I am just going to acknowledge that I struggle with stories written in the first person, but this book is good enough that I got over this hang-up pretty quickly. I really love how both the narrator's self-awareness and his lack of self-awareness comes through in this writing style--he is very reliable a narrator around his own faults (as he brags to his readers), but unreliable about his own feelings. This is reflective of his emotional intelligence and lack of self-understanding or self-interrogation around his emotions. A few moments stand out to me around this: He mentions explicitly that he often laughs when he is actually angry and only realizes he is mad after the fact; He is also shocked at the level of hurt he feels at Jaehee's betrayal, and doesn't understand his own reaction; and he similarly gives no indication of having any emotional attachment to K3 in terms of how he talks about him, though he keeps and returns to his last text message and thinks about how he had imagined K3 remaining in his life through his future.

All this is to say, once I realized the disaffected tone was intentional and also unreliable, I got really invested in this novel and enjoyed Part I a lot!

I agree with the read of the narrator and Jaehee's relationship as a Queer Platonic Relationship as @doyou000me wrote here, and I agree with @lurkingshan that this relationship went unrecognized in the novel because these characters did not have the words to understand or characterize the relationship they were in. I can also relate; my roommate and I in my 20s were both queer, on the aroace spectrum, and were one another's plus-one for everything from work parties to family events. We lived together for ~4 years. We shared cooking and cleaning duties, spent every evening together, vacationed together (we even went on a vacation just the two of us while they were dating other people), and it was only when we realized (without realizing that's what we were realizing) that we could not have further emotional intimacy with one another and we "broke up" (by spending less time together, no longer sharing meals, it was all very avoidant and immaturely handled lol) that they eventually got serious with someone else and moved out.

I now have a few queer platonic relationships that I'm in consciously that are as close as Jaehee and the narrator, where we share all kinds of intimate details about our lives and plan major things like where we'll move to around one another; and my awareness is much better for managing and understanding my emotions around them. This is part of why I think this read is so compelling; it helps explain some of the disaffected writing style overall in this part, because when I didn't have words for the relationship I was in, I didn't understand and sometimes didn't acknowledge the feelings I had about it. And the way Jaehee slowly but easily transitioned into putting her relationship with her boyfriend/fiance/husband first; @my-rose-tinted-glasses connected this to atanormativity in her post, and that resonates for me too.

This connects also to something @lurkingshan talked about here around life stages and how these two people only worked while they were in the same life stage, and since the expectations they had on their own lives and that everyone had on them were so different, those life stages did not align and would not align forever. The way the narrator talked about not ever wanting to be married and not understanding why Jaehee, who seemed to feel the same way he did about life and love, would want to get married, really resonated with me as a queer arospec person who has always struggled to understand why other people want the things they want in their lives, and always feeling out of step with where they're headed. It's been interesting actively trying to keep friendships with people who got married and had kids, for example. I wrote a list of my own list of alternative milestones for anyone who falls outside of allonormative and atonormative lives.

One thing I wanted to highlight that I think @my-rose-tinted-glasses also alluded to was that the betrayal the narrator experiences when Jaehee shares their secret and outs him to her boyfriend was a betrayal because Jaehee puts her boyfriend's needs over the narrator's. This happens again with the wedding planning, where she assumed she could ask the narrator to be her emcee and then had to renege on the request because her fiance had someone he wanted to use and it was 'traditional' that the groom's side get to set the emcee. The narrator basically shrugs this off but we can tell by the way he talks about the wedding, the emcee, and the bitterness that exudes from the page, in addition to how quickly he leaves, that he has feelings about this.

Unrelated but one of the things I noticed about the health scares that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that Jaehee is yelled at by the doctor for being irresponsible with her sexual health; in contrast, the narrator is responsible about his sexual health by bringing his sexual parter for testing at the first sign of a potential STI, and he is made fun of and feels explicitly embarased. I haven't fully thought through all of the implications of this but thought I'd add it to the discourse while I think about it some more this week!

When going into Part 2, I'm going to be thinking about the cover of the book and how the two versions I've seen have either blueberries and Marlboros, or fingertips stained with blueberry juice making a finger heart. I am wondering whether these will become visual leitmotifs for the rest of the novel, or whether Jaehee's role in the narrator's life and these physical manifestations of their bond will be left in part 1; and if so, it's interesting that these themes resonated strongly enough with the publisher to put this visual on the cover. Either way, it indicates their importance and the importance of this relationship in the narrator's story overall.

#litbc book club #love in the big city #typed so that i can stop thinking it

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idontwanttospoiltheparty · 5 months

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Re: your post about JohnandPaul. If you do wish to share them, I'd love to know your headcanons about John and Paul's feelings for each other. ( I do get your discomfort about sharing though and yeah, I also miss the long discussions and metas from back when Get Back came out. It feels like, except you and some others, most of my favorite blogs have moved on from the fandom)

I've been sitting on this ask for several days now.

First of all I hear you, re:blogs moving on. It's understandable, but it's also sad when my brain does not want to give this stuff up any time soon lol.

In my post I talked about having specific headcanons about their feelings for each other, but the truth is, it's more like I imagine hundreds of very specific somewhat plausible scenarios, while not actually fully buying into any of them.

I always struggle with how sure people are of some definite timeline of McLennon because I just don't see how it's in any way clear: the most compelling evidence that at least John had Those Feelings™ for Paul is stuff he said after the fact (compiled with the stronger case for John being attracted to men in general) – so, if I choose to interpret his words in that way, I'm still not very close to knowing when he developed this attraction. Let alone concluding anything substantial about Paul's feelings.

(And no, I really don't find the two of them saying the other looked good when they met particularly compelling. Appearance plays a huge role in first impressions, regardless of attraction.)

So I guess, it's more that I have open questions I return to again and again, for which I try to construct hypothetical answers that make sense to me. Aside from that bigger timeline question, here's a few more specific ones:

From what I've gathered researching the topic, listening to psychonauts speak about their trips, the acid mindset very much romanticizes all forms of human connection (among other things). I think that's probably what was going on during those "I know."–"I know." sessions John and Paul had on LSD. With that in mind, how might that have mixed in with John trying to understand how he felt about Paul? Could it have confused him? Opened him up to the idea? "Appeased" him for a while? (and again, the answer here would depend on the timeline of feelings in the end)

I still lean towards "Paul is not meaningfully attracted to men" (or at least "Paul valued other aspects of his relationship with John much more than physical attraction") – with that in mind I do kind of ask myself what Paul thought his relationship with John was exactly. Like, I don't pretend it was a standard, run-of-the-mill friendship, so I wonder a lot what his end-goal was, how he saw both of them continuing into later stages of life. The way he talks about the breakup, equating John choosing Yoko with John leaving Paul, speaks to something somewhat true about most couples that marry – but why did he not anticipate that before? What was different? Also, for $20 don't copout with "hurr hurr cause Cyn didn't matter"

Paul's various takes on The John Question continue to puzzle me. On the one hand, it sort of seems to me like Paul would have had enough context clues at the time to get that John was attracted to men, because some of our evidence for it is evidence he would have had access to – he also indicated at least once that John was in fact kind of openly bicurious??? (note: that rant keeps me up at night. Could write a whole thesis on it and also it's so fucking funny) On the other, Paul is pretty insistent that the rumours are Not True and he's not actually the only person to shoot them down like that. (May Pang, Julia Baird, Tony Bramwell, Hunter Davies off the top of my head) It shouldn't be a stretch of the imagination that a man born in the 1940s might have trouble rearranging the image he's made of his dead best friend so drastically (or in a way that might feel drastic to him). So what is it? Is Paul obfuscating the question to protect John's reputation/because he thinks the curiosity is in poor taste or does he genuinely not buy into it? I'm not actually sure whether he's weighed in on this since Yoko's "John Was BI!!!!" reveal. Has this stance developed over the years? And if I assume Paul does know about John's sexuality: does he in fact think John had feelings for him? I do think this is a thing he would never talk about if he did so it feels like there would be no way of knowing either way. But it also makes me wonder about the barriers he might have set up in his head to avoid that very question – because the truth is that if John had Those Feelings™ for Paul and Paul never knew, that's sort of the second-worst case scenario from Paul's perspective, right after John having never liked him in the first place.

AND THEN THERE'S JOHN. Because just because Paul may not have picked up on it, doesn't mean John wasn't putting anything down. But he could also very much have been sending mixed signals from his own end, right? And again, acid mindset + mid 60s Free Love shit: in that culture, how much could John making advances be perhaps taken as Flowery Friendship? Did he justify it to himself that way? Or was John actually violently shoving all of that down? Was he truly capable of that?

It really never ends – I'm not certain of ANYTHING, but give me a proposal (ie. "In My Life is about Paul") and I'll talk myself into circles exploring the ins and outs of that hypothetical.

#ask #anon #jp speculation #my analysis #fiona.docx

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poupeesdecirque · 2 months

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Posting by Queue, or: why I need some distance from my crafts

It has been some time since my last hobby meta blog entry, it had different reasons and one is that I need distance. Like, yes I of course enjoy crafting and sometimes I am like a little child that runs everywhere to show off things.

But it got ... less intense. And I learned I do better when I keep projects or at least details to myself to sit on them for longer. That the first euphoria is purely mine and not to be shared.

Like for my photos I have a buffer of several weeks now. Yes, I know past-me would have kind of hated that. But I learned I do better when I have a time buffer. I do take photos weekly but sometimes they don't feel special enough to get the weekly photo feature?

Friday & yesterday I went out for photos and while I like the ones from yesterday way more than the ones from friday I am not sure if the set from yesterday will get the feature or not as it's only a hand full of photos giving me that certain spark.

Other than that I am a very emotional artist, I sometimes really fuck up my art and hate it at the moment I worked on it, but then, sometimes, after a few days or weeks I can look at it and just wonder about what was my problem the day I made it.

Another thing is that I, myself, enjoy my art. The process of it. And I like to see my blog updating, sometimes I forget what post will go online and then I check the blog and think "ah yes, this was that thing!", and it reminds me why I made the blog overall, to show myself I had progress and that every tiny step counts.

Which leads to another reason why I hold back in regards of posting. Yes, I do share some snippets in my stories over on insta but not always and not all. I sit on over 300 drawings from the last two years alone nobody ever will see, I enjoyed drawing but it's nothing for the public eye. I will maybe go back and redraw some and share the redraws then, who knows?

But wait, there is actually more reasons.

The biggest or main reason is ... i sometimes go really wild on projects. In January I finished so many dolls it was insane, I worked on Cosplays and other crafts in an incredible speed, I have literally no idea where I found the time but I somehow did and doll parts arriving every week did the rest.

I keep the blog running with partially 2 month old stuff but .... to be honest I don't have doll stuff aside photos to do anymore. All I can do is wait for bodies to be shipped (or dolls even) and arrive. There has been no movement since January. Aside Iza getting the shipping notice for our Split, might take a while until its at her place and I can't really start on the Akuma until I got the body (which I at least have finally ordered this month) as colors need to be matched and mods to be made.

I am truly itchy to do something else than sewing all the time, I do enjoy cosplay but you know how much I like sewing (hint: not at all). So to remind myself of the fun I had in the past weeks I have mixed my blog to bless me with some progress I had which was maybe not sewing all the time. And well, the Cosplays have deadlines and I do get some ideas aside purely sewing while doing them, so that keeps me going for now.

Yes, I could start redoing dolls like Alastor or Erwin. But you know what? IT'S ALMOST ALL SEWING. Urgh.

Aside that real life is pretty good at eating me up and I just want to enjoy crafting. Right now drawing feels like stress relief but I hate the results and just scan the pieces and put them away to never look at them again, I have a bunch of posts queued up without any captions, a wip entry of a current project only has two photos but I lack the spoons to actually get them done. But since those posts are so far back it's fine (yes I know drafts are a thing).

In general I enjoy having my art to myself to get used to it before I put it out into the wild as I just recently got reminded I do bad with direct comparisons still and it hits some triggerpoints from the past and makes everything harder, I don't need that.

I literally have no idea if this blog makes sense even, lol. I just am tired of sewing and stopped working on my current project around lunch time and have drawn so much today and I walked way too much the whole week my friends urged me to stay the ef home and at least try to relax. But I'm restless as my body is too stressed (I know it all I'm a certified relaxation trainer so eh), so, have an over the place blog entry.

#blog #hobby meta #or something like that #idk

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babybells123 · 1 month

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I love how you’re like like oh I love all of the asoiaf girlies Arya, Sansa Dany but you only ever talk about Sansa and jonsa. Like why are you lying.

Hey anon :)

I’ve actually mentioned in that post that I talk about Jonsa and Sansa a lot more because those are the blogs that I primarily follow (and thus, they come up on my feed a lot more). Sansa is my favourite character, I think that’s pretty clear. But the reason I don’t post about Dany and Arya a whole lot (though I have reblogged about them, which I’m sure you’ve noticed as you seem to have obsessively scrolled) is because I have lots of arya and dany blogs blocked since unfortunately they tend to have sansa/Jonsa hate and I don’t really want to see that. I also mentioned in that post for anyone to recommend me some blogs that don’t foster sansa or jonsa hate, but no one responded with any so I just left it at that.

In any case, you don’t know me so I don’t know why this page bothers you. - I DO love all asoiaf girls - but I prefer to not interact with certain stans since negativity is something I’d very much prefer not to encounter :p I have an asoiaf TikTok where I post equally about characters, so there’s that. In that original pinned post, I had a j*nrya shipper come into my notes and essentially act very condescending towards me for shipping Jonsa. It left quite a bad taste in my mouth and was vitriolic for no reason, (and they actually blocked me when I provided reasoning + evidence which is …funny to say the least). I come onto tumblr to read metas , view beautiful fanart and edits, and converse with my *wonderful* mutuals. I do not come on here to argue, to hate, to bully, to provoke discourse - it’s just not in my nature and I’ll only speak on something if it’s presented to me unabashed or in my actual mentions. Otherwise I don’t venture into anti-tags and even just avoid pro - arya or pro - dany tags since I’ve seen lots of hatred to sansa and Jonsa on there and frankly ? I’m not interested. I’d love to follow some blogs that appreciate or are at the very least respectful about all these characters so if you can point some out to me lovely anon, that would be great :) It’s been a while since I’ve read a good arya or dany meta.

Now, in terms of characters - I believe I’m one of those rare asoiaf fans who are appreciative of all female characters for what they are. I’ve mentioned sansa, dany and arya are my favs - and this is due to complexity, nuance and the unique beauty and meaning to their stories. I enjoy them in different ways, and I appreciate them for different reasons.

To address the crux of your statement, which is relatively hateful, bitter, and condescending - I’m really not sure why you’re here? You seem the only person who has a problem with my page. There are numerous blogs dedicated to arya and/or dany. If you could read properly, my op post states that they are among my favourite characters *but I post primarily about Jonsa and Sansa for the reasons I stated above.*

I urge you to turn your biased glasses off and go back to your side of the fandom , where I’m sure you’ve come from just to …what? Hate? Call me a liar? (And I’m gaging its because I ship Jonsa and love Sansa…as is the pattern with these types of asks) in any case I have 40 followers on this blog, it’s a place for me to come share my thoughts on my most favourite book series of all time. I’m sick of people making assumptions about me when they don’t even know me.

Anyway anon, have a good day/night and perhaps follow blogs that you like and agree with!

🌹🏹

#asks #anti asoiaf fandom #sansa stark #I really don’t understand why I need to justify myself on my blog #I’m posting and rebloging about things I’m interested in

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hannigramislife · 3 months

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so i have a question that i swear is meant with complete sincerity (i just want to preface that because i know some people send shitty passive aggressive asks and i dont wanna be misunderstood).

I dislike dazai a lot and for most of the same reasons that you do but i also really dont like jgy for basically all the same reasons. I just know you're a big jgy fan but you really hate dazai and i was wondering how you reconcile those feelings? i assume we just have different interpretations of jgy (mdzs is a vast piece of media and there's a lot of different ways to interpret each character) but i've just been getting more and more curious so i wanted to ask. to be clear, i think it's totally okay to like jgy! the same way i think its okay for dazai fans to like dazai, they're just fictional characters. so this is in no meant as an attack or an 'ah ha!' moment. i just sort of don't understand liking one character and not the other when to me, all of their worst traits are the same and jgy has actually done far worse things than dazai (like murdering his own son)

i hope my ask isnt upsetting at all. you mentioned before liking to discuss meta so i really just want to introduce a conversation and maybe understand your perspective a bit better

Firstly, thank you so much for your polite ask!

I just wanna clear something up – I am not a Jgy fan XD. I see where one might think that, but I can guarantee you, I wanted him dead as fuck and I do not condone his atrocities.

Now, I do have some friends who have talked to me about Jgy, and they're Xiyao and Nieyao fans, respectively, so by talking with them, I have come to understand better some parts of Jgy's character, which have made me more forgiving towards some of his actions. Emphasis on some. Like you said, he and Dazai share the same annoying/frustrating traits, like the fact that they're lying liars 😊

I do appreciate Jgy as a character much more than I do Dazai though, that is correct, and I guess it's because of their narrative roles. Jgy has a very solid and interesting position in mdzs – in a world where social standing is such an important part of the story, the genius, bastard son of one of the wealthiest clans is constantly kicked down (lol couldn't resist), because the system has decided he doesn't deserve the same power as his half-brother, simply because of his birth situation.

And the narrative stays true to it! Time and time again, he is shut down, even when he goes to Lanling with Nie Mingjue's recommendation letter, even when he kills Wen Ruohen, even when he is married to secure his status, fate has fucked him over. It's like trying to watch Icarus reach the sun because he feels he is entitled to it.

Plus, I'm a huge Nieyao fan XD in a "they could have totally gotten married and lived happily ever after, but nooo; some of us have daddy issues *glares at jgy*"

So, this is the reason my posts have stopped being so antagonistic to Jgy, as I like to live in a delusional world where they've reincarnated in the modern world, jgy has some morals, and 3zun is happy 😇

Now, Dazai, on the other hand, I simply can't stand him. Nothing about his story or personality makes me go even as far as "yes, and?" I don't care for him as a character (though I get how he is appealing to people). I don't understand his actions 90% of the time. Plus, his actions are also frustrating and make me mad.

Like when Chuuya used corruption and he was like, "take me back at the place," and Dazai just left his ass there. "Oh, but that's their dynamic," yes, well, it annoys me. Plus, his whole thing with Akutagawa drives me up a wall because how dare you??? Motherfucker??? His first words to Akutagawa after 4 years live in my head rent-free because you could have shown that you became a better person, but nope. Still a dick. "Oh, he did that to set up the rivalry with Atsushi," you know how Beast Dazai did that? Set them up on a date. Boom. Take notes.

I also personally think Dazai either doesn't get Akutagawa fr, or he simply doesn't care to do so because Akutagawa flourishes with encouragement, it's actually sort of insane to see. Anyways. Went on a tangent there.

So yeah, Dazai is annoying, his personality sucks, he's a manipulative bastard, and he is mean to my baby :(

#the untamed #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jin guangyao #bsd #bungou stray dogs #bsd dazai #dazai osamu #ask #thoughts and feelings

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moonlightstrife · 9 months

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So about Terence and Dion

tldr; these two are really, really similar to Patroclus and Achilles

So a couple weeks after the game was released I tweeted this.

Of course two months later while doing some research for a WIP teredio fic I develop a brainrot so strong about this very comparison

disclaimer: this is all purely speculation made out of 7 hours of brainrot. I am not in any way an expert in greek mythology and i cannot even afford a PS5. This is purely a fun write-up I made in hopes of my hyperfixation reaching other people who also adore this pairing. This is also VERY long and windy.

Right, firstly, I don't think it is a reach to make this comparison at all; if anything, I am more surprised by how few people have actually posted anything in the interwebs about this (I found like, one other tumblr post, but I am also not a part of the ship Discord server for this pairing so I might just be late to the party 🤷‍♀️).

FF16 is FULL of references to greek mythology and culture. Cid's last name Telamon is the name of one of the Argonauts, Charon is the name of the ferryman to the underworld who requires payment for passage to the underworld, Ambrosia is the food of the gods, and those are just the simple ones that I think most people can tell from modern pop culture references. Comparing Terence and Dion to Patroclus and Achilles, one of the most famous greek relationships between two adult men, is really not that far of a reach.

Actually, the thing that got me to tweet that teredio reminds me of patrochilles is the whole hero-and-squire relationship they got going on since the very beginning. Terence is technically Dion's second-in-command, but with that opening scene of Terence holding onto Dion's spear and then followed by the cutscene of him tending to Dion's arm in the camp which is also followed by thee kiss scene? Doesn't take a meta analysis to draw the line from one ship to another

(Also the hero with blonde hair and his lover with dark brown hair 👀 but this is more of a common trope rather than something specific to patrochilles)

And that is where I left my teredio-is-like-patrochilles thoughts for a good while. I spent the next two months RTing all the gorgeous teredio fanarts on twitter, read a few teredio fanfics, then onto other FF16 ships like a normal person.

(my personal favourite for the longest time is Cid x Clive; the longfics for this pairing are insanely good..)

Then I decided to write a oneshot for teredio about their servant-and-master relationship (at least, that's how they worded it in the game).

I wanted to find a better way to describe their relationship in my fic; still sticking to the term master and servant as it is canon in the english script, but not neccessarily implying an irreconcilable difference in social standing or power imbalance. My searches somehow led me to biblical fanfiction, in which I find some very interesting takes on David and Jonathan, which then leads me to a wikipedia page about David and Jonathan --

and then back to where I began, Patroclus and Achilles.

except when I first made that comparison, it was just a tweet off the top of my head. I read Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller in 2016, and I do not remember everything that happens in that book. All I remember is roughly the overall feel of the relationship and that these two greek characters died tragically and that their ashes are buried together.

So imagine my surprise when I see this image on the wikipedia page for Patroclus and Achilles.

The caption says: Achilles bandaging the arm of Patroclus.

I do not have 4k screencaps the exact scene so have this image i copied off GamesRadar off a lousy google search

Great, so they both share an arm-bandaging scene. Doesn't make them any more similar, you'd say. Also, didn't I just draw similarities from Achilles to Dion and Patroclus to Terence in the beginning? This one is completely swapped!

Well give me a moment to recover from the shock of seeing what looks very similar to a ship i like on a real-life greek pottery painting, and let's get to actually comparing details.

Quick note, I will be using in-game canon, the information from the newly released FF16 ultimania, descriptions from homeric traditions, and also the book Song of Achilles (SoA). You can argue that using Song of Achilles as a reference is a stretch because it is a romance book that treats patrochilles as a canon homosexual relationship, but honestly Madeline Miller took 10 years to write that book and I don't think I can compete with her amount of research in 7 hours.

What's similar:

Terence is the son of a minor noble family in Sanbreque (from the Ultimania), and Patroclus is the son of Menoetius, one of the Argonauts. They are both from 'lesser' lineages in comparison to their partners, but is still technically born into nobility.

Terence and Dion grew up together after meeting each other in school at age 7 (from the Ultimania), and Patroclus and Achilles grew up together in Phthia after Patroclus was exiled. Both are childhood friends who grew into adulthood together.

Terence is instated as Dion's squire at age 12 (from the Ultimania), and Patroclus is given to Achilles by Achilles' father Peleus as his henchman (from the Illiad, though translations differ) or his trusted brother-in-arms (from SoA). Both are bound by duty to their partners from a young age.

Terence is Dion's second-in-command during the events of the game, and Patroclus is Achilles' right-hand-man during the events of the Trojan War (from the Illiad and SoA). Both are confidants to their partners during war times.

Dion is the dominant of Bahamut and the prince of Sanbreque, Achilles is the son of the Nereid Thetis and a mortal king Peleus. Both are born into nobility and are famous for their inhuman battle prowess.

Dion's main weapon of choice is a lance, and Achilles was given the legendary Pelian Spear by Chiron the Centaur before he participated in the Trojan War (from the Illiad). Both notably use spears/lances/pokey sticks.

I think those are the main similarities that I can in good faith say are pretty obvious. Next are the things that I personally think might be slightly delusional depending on the angle you approach the premise from.

What can be a bit of a reach:

The arm bandaging scenes. Assuming it is to relief the pain from the Crystal's Curse, Dion is not the only dominant to start petrifying from his arm. Cid also has similar marks on his arms and Clive's hand eventually petrifies. However, it is also the first scene where we explicitly see the extent of Dion and Terence's relationship.

There is no mention about Terence's relationship with his family, while Patroclus is notably exiled from his father's lands -- that's how he gets to Phthia and meets Achilles. Instead, we know that Dion's family did not love him (from the Ultimania)

Dion is the son born of a courtesan, and his father had her killed after buying him from her (from the Ultimania). Achilles is born of Peleus basically binding and coercing Thetis after she is gifted to Peleus by Zeus and Poseidon. Both tales frame the image of both men's fathers being not exactly good people, and their marriages and the births of their sons would be important to mark the start of upcoming events (the Judgement of Paris took place at the wedding of Thetis and Peleus, Dion's birth and awakening backs Sylvestre's claim to the throne). I call this sort of a reach because this doesn't exactly play into the relationships' dynamics per se, just a reminder that their fathers are horrible people 🤷‍♀️

There is an element of fate in Achilles' death, where the god Apollo is said to have guided the arrow Paris shot to Achilles' heel. The dominants in the game have on multiple occasions been mentioned to be slaves to their own fates, and the main theme of the game has much to do with defying fate decided by gods, even if it means die trying. Dion 'dies' defying the fate Ultima has decided for humanity, so I guess there is a similarity?

This is the biggest reach of all lol. So remember that I mentioned Telamon, Cid's last name, is also the name of one of the Argonauts? Telamon is also the older brother of Peleus, Achilles' father. Now, I do not think that this is the only explanation as to why the writers chose the name Telamon out of all the other greek names. The writers managed to shove in 3 different thunder gods into Cid's character, and I refuse to believe that they chose the name just because Telamon is somewhat related to Achilles. Telamon is also the father to Ajax the Great who is a notable hero, but Ajax is like, second to Achilles in fame and I don't really see a FF16 character that can be somewhat related to Ajax..

Okay, so what does this all mean?

Honestly I don't know lol

Terence x Dion, unlike many other ships I've liked, is an actually canon ship at some point in the game's story. Even without the comparison, the ship still stands as confirmed to be canon. Drawing lines from two greek mythology characters to them does not make the ship any more canon than it already is.

But the game's story also doesn't shed much light on the ship itself, not in the base game at least. Fair enough, it is Clive's story and not Dion's story, so Terence, who doesn't play a part in Clive's story, doesn't get to be in the spotlight for long. Dion's conflict with his own father is also given more weight to Dion's character development. We're given so little information about Terence that when the Ultimania came out I was just happy I get more crumbs of lore to work with.

I don't think the devs took direct inspiration from the tale of Achilles and Patroclus either. We've learned that FF16 is just a melting pot of all the storytelling and worldbuilding elements we loved from FFXIV, FF12, GoT, greek mythology, classic FF and media tropes, and so much more. The most I can think of is that the writers wanted to write a canon gay love story that people will love, and in doing so they picked out the romance tropes and stories that have been widely accepted and loved for a long time. Childhood friends to lovers, unrequited first loves that eventually became mutual in the threat of separation, the second-in-command who is loyal in both duty and matters of the heart.

If the tale of Achilles and Patroclus happens to fall under that category, needless to say I am very happy with the writers' decision. If not, well consider this just a very very long headcanon post

If you've never read anything related to patrochilles and is interested, I highly recommend reading the Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller! Prepare about half the amount of tissue you've used for FF16 and you're all set for a heartbreaking love story 🥰

Also I hope these two don't die as tragically as Achilles and Patroclus.

#ffxvi #ff16 #terence #dion lesage #teredio #flareknight #patrochilles #good lord this is long i will never post on tumblr ever again

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