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stagefoureddiediaz · 9 months

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RWRB costume/ colour meta!

Ok, lets do this!!

Man have I missed writing costume/colour meta, so its good to have something to write about again! This took me far far longer than it should have - I kept getting distracted by the film while I was working on this - I'd go looking for a clip or to grab a still and end up just watching the film again 😂😂😂 but I've finished it and I hope you all enjoy it! Grab a beverage of your choice because this thing is a beast coming in at over 7000 words - I totally understand if you want to skip, but I have ADHD and do not know how to be concise 😂😂😂

Red white and royal blue employs several fun and interesting costume and colour theories (also made use of in the set design) to help tell the story of Alex and Henry. I’m not going to write a detailed meta for each costume - I just don’t have the time - but I am going to look at some costume/ colour details in focus, especially for Henry and Alex as well as highlighting other interesting choices! I also do not have the picture limit (I need more than 30!!!) to include every image I would like to, so if you want to see what I'm talking about, you might have to go check out the relevant scenes (I'll try to give you timestamps where I can!) I’ve kind of tried to do things chronologically, but I’ve left Alex and Henry to the end so if I don’t talk about them very much in the rest of this meta - that is why! putting it under a cut because its so long!

The royal Wedding

There are a couple of key themes here, the wedding party (consisting Lady Martha, Bea and Henry) have a distinct colour palette - dusty blue, dusty pink and Ivory, with the exception of Prince Phillip who is in his red Dress uniform - they’ve used a red uniform to make him stand out, convey that he is more important than the bride (what with his being in line for the throne and all that jazz) and hint at power - red is a power colour.

I’m not sure what royal orders the collar and riband that Henry is wearing are supposed to represent as they don’t belong to a specific British order - if I had to take a punt I’d say his red collar is meant to be a AU version of a Knight Grand Cross of the order of the bath but the one he’s wearing certainly isn’t a real order in the UK (it isn’t meant to be an order of the garter as that is the highest ranking order and Henry would then also be wearing the light blue riband we see on Prince Phillip) the royal blue riband with the red edging is more i line with the night grand cross of the order of Victoria, although in real life that riband should be for in the opposite direction. My feeling is that they wanted a red collar on Henry to play into the red as a symbol of power theme they’ve used on Prince Phillip, placing Henry as having the ‘power’ in his conversation with Alex (as he is on home turf) and the royal blue sash is a deliberate choice that I will talk about later when I focus in on Henry and I think its actually pretty significant as a choice. essentially the order insignia he is wearing are not real orders which is totally fine as this is essentially and au royal family!

We do have to talk about that wedding gown - not royal in the slightest - spaghetti straps and a low back would never be allowed for a royal bride, the dress is also too long on her (but that’s a different conversation about budgets and rental gowns so we’ll let it slide here!!) and her hair should also be fully up - not in the half up do she has going on! The colour is also wrong - she would have been tied to a very limited colour palette of white or ivory - no colour in a royal wedding gown, so the blush colour we see is a no go! I totally get why they did what they did with her gown in terms of colour and I’m fine with that choice (i’ll explain more in the next paragraph), I even get the fairytale princess look they were going for with that dress - but when you’re trying to portray a family so stuck in tradition and history etc, I can’t help but feel that they missed a trick to show her as buttoned up, conforming to the crown etc, especially as we never see her again!

At the reception we see pretty much everyone in colour of some description, with the exception on Alex and Nora who are both in black - this is why Lady Martha’s wedding dress is a pale blush pink colour rather than white. The only reason that the men aren’t in colour (if they’re not in dress uniform) is because they are wearing white tie for the formality of a royal wedding, otherwise I think we would’ve seen coloured ties or some such on them. This is intentional because the room has a general (muted) wash of colour which serves to highlight Alex and Nora, making them stand out and look like they don’t really belong.

Its a way of creating a them and us vibe and helps to establish the rivalry between Alex and Henry - we have a British scene, full of colourful clothing and the only identified foreigners are in black and white. We actually only see a black and white colour palette for the clothing of the Americans until Alex returns from his PR fix it trip to London after cakegate, while nearly all the Brits all were colour of some description - we can see this clearly in the hospital - all the children in colour, Henry in blues and - Henrys security in coloured ties while Amy is there totally in black.

Alex himself does wear navy blue but its a dark navy and that jacket is actually two tone - black and navy and its paired with black trousers in this scene - we see it again later - paired with taupe trousers which really helps to establish this idea of colour entering Alex's world once Henry is in it.

Sets

I’m going to pause on clothing here to quickly talk about the sets in the film and their colour palettes because they fall into three distinct categories;

We have the sage dusty greens, gold and bright reds of the British spaces - they have a regency and victorian air to them, all very traditional, opulent and royal in feel - they are the definition of a gilded cage and are ostentatious and Henry’s bedroom even fits into this mould (its very telling that we only see very limited physical intimacy between the two of them in this space - because its a space that neither of them truly fit or belong in) with its sagely green walls that echo the green walls of the state room the big royal family showdown occurs in.

Then we have the creams, taupes and beiges (with a bit of minty green for the walls of oval office) of the America spaces combined with the very intentional colour choice of that rusty orange (there is also the red room but that is a whole other conversation - I’ll go into it later).

The Rusty orange is such a colour choice, its rich and eye-catching. All colours have meanings associated with them - these can vary wildly depending on where and how they are used and have both positive and negative connotations.

Generally speaking, orange is an attention grabber - its energetic and stimulating, but it also conveys transformation and endurance. This orange has brown undertones which means we should also reference brown colour meanings when thinking about what the colour means on screen - brown is a safe colour and it is also strong and reliable, but it can also portray a sense of loneliness - that is something I think is a really interesting concept - we see Henry in Alex’s world (through the text chats as well as in the first blowjob scene) on the rusty orange sofas and one of the underlying major parts of who Henry is, he is enduring like the orange (and his royal status make him an attention grabber without needing to try) but there is that underlying sense of loneliness - yes he might’ve had a crush on Alex since the climate conference, but as soon as the air had been cleared between them during the PR trip Henry reached out and pursued Alex because he was lonely and wanted a friend - not knowing if it could ever be more than a friendship.

Then, finally we have the spaces Henry and Alex occupy - spaces which are just theirs to occupy - spaces when they are themselves - these are predominately yellow and blue spaces, with some deep colours such as the teal we see on the walls of Alex’s room and the red room.

I’ll go into more detail about all the yellow and blue in this film a bit later on in this meta, but to provide a comment on the red room - red is a colour of passion and love, but this shade of red they’ve chosen maintains that orange undertone we see in the rest of the American spaces.

I wrote a post on the choice of red calla lilies and how they are both a symbol of love and commitment, as well as a phallic symbol of sexuality, and I know Alexander Hamilton was on the wall in the book, but he is there not only because he was very likely bi, but also because he was the subject of what is known as the first political sex scandal - something our boys are essentially also themselves going to end up becoming!

Once Alex does return stateside we start to see colour begin to fill his world. This is a really interesting thematic choice - think how the wizard of Oz (a film very much associated with gay culture - ‘a friend of Dorothy’ was a slang code used by gay men to identify one another and there is obviously the rainbow connotation) begins in black and white and then transitions to colour as soon as Dorothy wakes up in Oz. This film is playing on that same trope/ concept - this is a story essentially told from Alex’s perspective, so Henry and his world is already in colour - its only when Alex enters that world and becomes entwined with it that colour starts to seep into his life - its done in a much more subtle way, but it is there - even during the text bantering they have going one while he is watching a film with Nora - it is a black and white film (‘Some Like it Hot’ - its self a film that helped open conversations about queer identity and the queer community at a time when the Hays code was still in operation and when Sodomy laws still existed in the US, but that is a whole other conversation and lots has been written about it before, its one of my favourite films and if you want to know more then head to your search engine of choice or hit up my inbox! It’s also a film our director Matthew Lopez adapted for the stage which is possibly partly why it was chosen for this scene- as a nod to his other work!)and they are both wearing grey while Henry is in colour (cream and blue - playing into the queer coded yellow blue theming) and sits on the bright orange sofa.

I cannot tell you how much I am in love with the Koi carp on Alex’s dressing room wall because the symbolism - the symbolism!!!!! Koi are seen as a symbol of strength, patience, perseverance, love and bravery they symbolise success through courage. Koi are known to swim against the current and overcome great obstacles - there is a Japanese proverb ‘Koi no Takinobori’ which translates as 'koi swim up waterfalls' and as the word Koi in Japanese also translates to mean love the proverb therefore means that love can go against the current and overcome great obstacles and if that isn’t the perfect metaphor for Alex and Henry’s relationship then I don’t know what is!!

I am obsessed and I adore the set designer for including that wallpaper in general, but especially in their text banter flirty developing relationship - the writing is essentially on the wall for where their relationship is going and how its going to unfold - they are literally Koi swimming agains the current and overcoming great obstacles to be together!!

Back to the costuming!

As I said previously - when Alex returns from the PR trip we start to see increasing amounts of colour and it starts with blue - Oscar is wearing a blue shirt - a colour we only see him in for that scene and then again at the end of the film - during election night. Its an important choice - Henry's colour is blue - its the colour we nearly always see him in some form of blue so for this to essentially be the first colour that appears in the clothing in Alex's world is telling in its own way - it is the beginning of the slow saturation of Henry in the world of Alex. Oscar is always in tan colour-ways apart from those two scenes and generally speaking we see him wearing Mexican tribal and geometric prints/patterns and cowboy boots - playing into his Mexican heritage, but also establishing him as Texan.

Miguel is clearly set out as the baddie to us all - head to toe in black all the time expect at the PM dinner - when he has to wear a white shirt because its etiquette - but they do make sure to give him black buttons on that shirt - which separates him from everyone else in dinner dress very clearly and keeps the undertone of untrustworthiness going.

The other thing to note is the grey fuzzy jacket he wears when being interviewed on the news. I’ve spoken before in my 911 meta’s about how the use of the grey fuzzy patterning is symbolic of confusion or obfuscation and that holds true here - Miguel is called out as being the one who hacked and leaked the emails by the presenter and he tries to bluff his way out - to obfuscate the truth.

We see the idea of green and jealousy play out a couple of times in the film - the flirty girl that tries to commandeer Alex and kisses him at the NYE party is wearing a very blatantly iridescent green dress which sets her apart from the rest of the crowd and then when the crowd drops low we also get the green lights on the DJ desk - while the scene is a play on the I saw you across a crowded room idea, there is also that undercurrent of jealousy - Henry is Jealous of Alex’s ease and that he cannot have him loudly and in the way he wants - highlighting that jealousy helps to build into Henrys later actions when he throws caution to the wind and kisses him under the tree.

Ellen Claremont has a narrow colour palette as well - we only see her in black in that first scene and in the ‘new Texas strategy’ arguement with Alex, after that her dominant colour is cream and we also see plenty of red which is a power choice - she wears it in scenes when she needs to convey power and status such as at the PM dinner or when she is shutting down his Texas strategy. The cream is the base colour for her - its a colour of elegance, sophistication, it is also a neutral colour - playing into her position as POTUS, but also when she wears it in one on one scenes with Alex, it is a sign of her being a mother rather than the POTUS.

Zahra tends to wear blacks with one blue/grey cashmere jumper and when we do get colour on her they are jewel tones - purple and teal. We also get some more grey fuzzy patterning - again playing into my previous statements - here it is very much about confusion rather than obfuscation - she only wears the fuzzy grey when she finds out about Alex and Henry and has her mind blown by the knowledge. Its a perfect costuming choice for this scene as it conveys so much about where her brain is - that her mind has been blown by this huge thing she as just become privy to and it helps make her facial expressions even louder!

Nora wears a full spectrum of colours, the stand ones are obviously the red bodice and trousers she wears for new years and the pink shirt she wears in the office when Alex is having a mini bi panic and figuring himself and his attraction to Henry out. Generally speaking a characters costumes are meant to be about them and their own character, however with a film like this, everything is a driving point for the two main characters and so, other characters costumes will, at key points be less about the character wearing them and more about driving the story of the mains forward - this is very much the case with Nora’s red outfit (and we have already talked about the green of the flirty girl at new years representing jealousy).The red is very very red, it is meant to stand out and is a nod to romance - for both herself with Pez and for Alex and Henry, but Red is also a colour associated with passion and sexuality as well as fire and heat - essentially it is a marker that things are about to kick into action on the romance scale - we are heading from friends to lovers.

The pink shirt plays into the same theme - its a continuation, but a cooling down - less about the heat and passion of a sexual encounter, and more about the concept of romance and relationships - because that is what the conversation is ultimately about in this scene. We have the bi flag background helping to visually tell us what the conversation is about, but we also need to have that subtle reminder that this is not about fire and passion it is about the potential for romance - for love - because if Alex is going to hook up with Henry, it isn’t going to be a hook up, it going to be real. We do of course see things heat back up in the red room (as they should), but ultimately that is the last of the fiery heat we see - from then on anything connected with Alex and Henrys relationship is much more steadfast - the blues and yellows I will talk about in a minute!

Lets talk signet rings!! We see them worn on the male members of the royal family - so King James, Phillip and Henry - as well as Alex when Henry gives him his ring. their use is telling and significant. James and Phillip both wear their signet ring on the little finger of the right hand, while Henry (and Alex) wears his on the little finger of the left hand. in a general sense one would usually wear a signet ring on the little ringer of the non dominant hand - so if you’re a lefty you wear it on the right hand and vice versa if your right handed. This is not what is being portrayed here - all three of them are naturally right handed (yes I did spend far too much time on google to find this out!!) which would in theory mean all of them should have their rings on the left little finger and yet only Henry does.

There is however another explanation - a ring worn on the right hand is symbolic of tradition conformity and rigidity and royalty (traditionally the monarch would wear a ring on the right hand and this was offered to subjects to kiss), wearing it on the dominant hand as a sign of power/ dominance. Henry and then Alex wear Henry’s ring on the left hand - the traditional hand that wedding bands are worn - because of the concept of the main artery running from the heart down the left arm and into the left hand, it is a symbol of love and life and connection to another person and is where the concept of the red string of fate comes from (which ties in nicely with Alex referring to the rope in his chest pulling him towards Henry). This all gains greater significance when Henry gives his ring to Alex and that he choses to also wear it on the left hand, its essentially a symbol of engagement and eternity - it is a sort of pre engagement I guess - and is a low key statement from Henry he is giving Henry Fox to someone for eternity - to Alex.

Right, shall we talk about the yellow and blue theming that I keep mentioning. This specific theming, tends to be seen more in sets and lighting than costumes - although we do see it used in costuming too (looking at you Bea!!). For those not aware, there is a tendency to use yellow and blue colour-ways for queer story arcs - if you look at Heartstopper (esp s1) they have been using it to great effect , and it can be seen in other shows and films with queer character arcs to such as 911 (and Lonestar), as well as plenty of other mainstream media if you’re looking for it. I don’t know when or how it became a colour way associated with queer relationships - especially mlm relationships - I’ve not had the time to deep dive into that particular research spiral - but suffice to say we see it put to very very great effect here in Red White and Royal Blue - we only ever see it used as a colour way when it is regarding Alex and Henry and their romantic relationshipI’ve included some of the blue and yellow we see (couldn’t fit it all in - 30 pictures is apparently not enough!!!) surrounding Alex and Henry and there is plenty of it. The first time we see this yellow/blue theming come into play is at the turning point - when Henry opens up the lines of communication with his text message. Alex is in his room - the first time we’re seeing into his room - a room painted dark blue and full of yellow accents - the lamp on his desk and the unit to the side of the sofa, as well as the very yellow and blue painting we see above his bed (which was commissioned for the film and so the colour choice was very much deliberate). Just to show how prolific the yellow/blue colour way is here is a list of most of the occurrences - I've tried to include as many of them in the pictures as I can as well.

The copy of People is yellow and blue, the Jacket Alex wears for new year has gold and blue embroidery. The PM’s dinner has blue lighting with gold curtains and there are a lot of blue and yellow dresses being worn in the crowd when Alex is watching Henry. The cushion on the sofa behind Alex is yellow and blue. Then we get to the French hotel room and the Eiffel Tower - it is literally all yellow and blue - everything - even down to the blue (extra safe) condom packets. the New York hotel room is dark blue and gold another is a blue bottle of lube on the side (the condoms and lube are very much a deliberate colour choice - there are a million different colours you can buy both in so if the colour wasn’t important they could’ve chosen any, esp as fuchsia and red is the most common colour for both in the durex brand in the UK).

In England - Henry mostly occupies green spaces - in keeping with the royal theme I wrote about earlier - however the room he is most himself and most comfortable in is the music room/ library which is yellow and any time we see him in that space, he is wearing blue. It is telling that when the emails between Henry and Alex are hacked, his sanctuary is full of ‘old white men in suits’ and Henry cannot go in there - symbolic that who he is - his true self - has been violated and he is being forced into ‘royal coded’ spaces - back into his box as it were!

Back to costumes and he two blue hoodies. I’m gonna get a bit of hate for this, but the blue hoodie is actually two different hoodies! - they are slightly different shades of pale blue - Alex’s is much more dusty blue, while Henry’s is much more baby blue, they are also different cuts - Alex’s a traditional sleeve cut while Henry’s has a raglan sleeve cut (think baseball tee). There is the idea with these two hoodies that they are at different points in their journeys, but still connected and i love that we see them in them at really key points of crisis - they are a comfort blanket in a way - Alex wears his during is bi crisis and again when he's watching Miguel on the news and figures out who the hack was, while Henry wears his when he lets Alex in - when he opens up and unspokenly confesses his love for Alex, when he agreed to take the step and be brave - both are wearing these hoodies in moments when they need/want comfort the fact that they are wearing such similar hoodies speaks to the fact that in it is the other they want that comfort from (even if Alex doesn't actually realise it during his min bi crisis).

And now to our two mains - lets start with Henry.

Henry

The bulk of Henry’s wardrobe is double breasted suits - a key theme for the members of the royal family - not one else where’s them - its a fun costuming choice, cease generally speaking the double breasted suit isn’t in fashion at the moment - the film fit single breasted suits we see on the rest of the characters is. It's a very clear choice to create a them and us concept in a visual and telling way. the other thing to note about these db suits is that only Henry wears plain fabric - the ones we see on Phillip and James are pinstripe or woven stripe. I want to quickly mention the tie King James is wearing because of its very obvious pattern. it is the only loudly patterned tie in the entire film - all others are either, plain , striped or spotted. In the book Henry says that patterned ties are considered too political (i'm paraphrasing and can't find the actual quote!!) and here we have a king playing with politics wearing a patterned tie - I love tiny nods like this to the original source material that only those of us who love the book will pick up on - its just a tie to the ga!

Henry himself wears pinstripes - when he is at his most royal - so for example when he is taking part in the PR exercise post cakegate. His ties also fit into this theming - he almost exclusively wears striped ties excepting at a couple of key moments - when he’s undertaking skulduggery and the yellow one he wears for the election. at all other times he has stripes on his tie. the stripes get wider or skinnier depending on the situation - the wide ones tend to be for royal events while the skinnier stripes tend to be connected to Alex.

Another thing to note with Henry is the lack of black he wears - the only time is at the most royal of occasions - the wedding - all the rest of his suits are varying shades of blue or grey (and cream) even the tux he wears to the PM dinner is a dark navy with black lapel rather than black - it differentiates him from everyone else in the room (esp Miguel) and shows him as the object of Alex’s gaze. I also want to mention the royal blue theme we see on him - something I love Keith Madden for doing - Henry nearly always has something blue on him and a lot of the time (especially connected to times when he is doing something connected to his status as a royal) we see him wearing something royal blue - its why his riband at the wedding is royal blue rather than the lighter blue of the order of the garter - but we also see it in the royal blue socks we see him in several times, the royal blue pyjamas when the hack/leak comes to light and the blue shorts in Texas when he’s lying on the bed before he leaves to return to England. We also see him in a lot of blue shirts keeping that blue theme connected to him.

Then there is my most beloved check theory - (its a theory connected to 911 for those who don’t know my costume metas already) Check is connected to foreshadowing of trouble - Henry wears a check/plaid pattern at a couple of very very key moments - at the bar in Texas - when we see Alex realise his love is the forever kind, when he is back in England having broken his own heart in a misguided attempt to save Alex (gingham shirts in pink and blue) and then the suit he wears when he choses himself over the crown and steps out onto the balcony with Alex to greet the crowds has a subtle check pattern (not sure if you can see it its the pictures but if you watch the scene you should be able to) all of these are moments which foreshadow the upcoming or current trouble in his life.

Yellow roses - symbol of Texas being flipped - from Mexican to independent (and eventually becoming part of US) - symbol of the fact Texas is about to flip blue from red. Yellow roses are also a symbol of good luck more generally and the yellow tie is a great choice to suggest neutrality in the election scenes (at this point in time Henry still has royal status). We see Henry in a grey suit with this yellow tie - this only further highlights his escape from royal life - when he is un the US we do not see him wearing the navy blue suits we see him in in England - the only exception is the dark navy dinner jacket he wears to the PM dinner . In the US he wears either a grey suit or the cream/light blue suit we see him in when he visits the lake house and the light blue linen jacket we see him on his light back to the UK is the only single breasted jacket we ever see him in - I would have loved to have seen the grey suit at the end also have been single breasted, but I'm guessing budget constraints prevented that from happening, as it really would've highlighted the difference between Henry George Edward James Hanover-Stuart Fox and Henry Fox!

At the lake house we get a piece of costuming that I love - the slightly differing short lengths we see on Henry and Alex - it Alex’s shorts are always shorter than Henry’s - it maintains that sense of Henry be more closeted and buttoned up - the overhead shot of them on the pontoon shows it really clearly - the two of them have similar leg lengths which serves me well here to show this point - the shorts Henry is wearing are at least 3 inches longer (possibly more) than Alex's - it isn't just that one pair of shorts - all 3 pairs of Henry's shorts are longer - its a costuming choice thats s perfectly in keeping with their respective characters.

The final thing to talk bout is Henry’s rainbow turtle swim shorts - a cute nod to his being gay - especially as Alex is is his purple bi swim shorts. But there is also the fact that they are turtles. Turtles are a symbol of steadfastness, longevity, perseverance and transformation. they can also be seen as a symbol of everlasting love. there is also the concept of carrying the weight of the world - which is seen in its most explicit way in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld novels - where a giant turtle carries the world on its back. All of these metaphors and symbols perfectly fit Henry and his relationship with Alex - it is a symbol of the enduring nature of their love for each other, the perseverance we will see for them to overcome the obstacles thrown at them, the steadfastness of their love, as well the transformation we are seeing Henry go through - from closeted gay thinking he has to conform to the very rigid and dated ideals of his family - to the freer Henry we see in the US - the real Henry and the version of himself he so desperately wants to be but thinks he can’t - he has the weight of the world on his shoulders at that moment a la the disc world turtle.

Alex

Alex, obviously has the largest number of costumes, as well as the largest colour palette, but even that is pretty limited. In the same way we see Henry’s wardrobe go through a subtle transformation, we also see the same for Alex, almost in the opposite direction - while Henry’s wardrobe becomes freer, Alex’s becomes more grown up - more mature and conveys his growth as a person - becoming more certain in who he is. I’ve already written a fair amount throughs this meta about Alex’s costumes, so this section is a little shorter than Henry’s for that reason!

We get rebellious Alex to begin with - the leather jacket easily conveys this to us, its almost a universal symbol or rebellion in costuming speak at this point and one of the reasons I like its use here is that it very quickly sets him apart from everyone else in the film - yes its early on, but he is the most casually dressed character by a long way - and this jacket it the antithesis of the buttoned up penguin suit from the wedding - it emphasises how uncomfortable Alex was in that environment and as a result gives the heavy drinking we saw before the cake went flying purpose and visually sets him up as the lead and as a rule/ convention breaker. The same is true of the greyscale with leopard print Hawaiian shirt which is meant to contrast him dramatically with Henry, who is still stuck in that stuffy double breasted suit prison of convention and expectation to behave a certain way - the costuming does a big chunk of the work in giving us rebel v prince in those opening scenes. I actually like that they brought the leather jacket back for the drive to the lake house - it sets up Alex’s falling in love arc nicely - in that it allows the idea of rebellion to continue flowing through the story - Alex wanting to be outing proud in Austin and not grasping that that isn’t an option Henry at this moment in time and is a nod to his not really understanding the different places he and Henry are in when it comes to what being out means for them respectively.

I’ve already written about the black and white colour way we see him in until his PR stint when we start see colour appearing in his wardrobe. I’ve put the pictures roughly in chronological order because it helps to show his progression, but it also shows the increasing amount of blue in his wardrobe, especially in moments connected with Henry.

To pick out some of my favourites - the Mexican pattern shirt with the red cardigan is wonderful - we have the shirt hinting at Alex’s heritage - in blue with the chunky knit red cardigan - I’ve written above about the use offered as a colour of passion and how that passion ebbs and flows - this cardigan also plays into that idea - it is the first time their texting becomes flirty - even the text message is in a red bubble on screen. This idea carries on with the orange red tee he is wearing during the turkey conversation - I made a post about that outfit being the same colour way as the turkey in question and how to talk turkey means to talk honestly and openly with someone - the very thing we see in that scene.

I adore the subtle yellow and blue jacquard embroidered New years jacket - the moment our boys connect and we move further into the lovers part of the enemies-friends-lovers trope and it keeps the yellow/blue theming an active part of the storyline. - the contrast with Henry’s orange tie is a choice - while there is a lot of colour at the NYE party Alex blends into the background while Henry is quite literally tied into the orange theme we’ve already seen in the furniture and sets - orange stands out and now we the audience are being drawn into unconsciously making the same connection that Alex is making - Henry is lonely, but he is an enduring and attention grabbing part of Alex’s life - it only further reenforces the direction of Alex’s gaze - green wearing flirty girl who??

We have a fair amount of Alex and the bi colour ways and we subtly see it coming into play from more or less the moment they start messaging - the light purple tee and purple message boxes, flowing through to the women sufferage wall and the fact he is wearing blue and purple in that scene with Nora in pink to round out the there colours. then we have the blue and purple colour ways he wears at the lake house - bolder and brighter - contrasting with the more muted shades from before - showing that he has recognised and accepted that part of who he is - he’ now out and proud and his parent know about him. I’ve used the old subtle a lot, but this is yet another example of transformation and growth for a character done subtly through colour. We also see him bathed in bi lighting at the bar when he has his 'OH I feel forever about him' moment at the Texas bar - he is the only one in that whole scene lit in that way - Henry is blue lit, while there is a more general lighting scheme that is blue/red dominant for the bar as a whole.

On to Alex’s suits and ties - he seems to have 5 suits and a jacket (not including the formal wear - tux and tails) a black one, 2 navy blue ones (one with a woven pinstripe that he wears in Paris) a bright bluish grey one and a grey one along with the black and blue waffle jacket we see him wear both on the PR trip and at the Polo match. I am obsessed with the fact that when he is in England he wears the navy suits and jackets whereas in the US he wears the other colour s suits - in the same way we see Henry less buttoned up and wearing grey and lighter blues in the US, here we see Alex fitting into Henry’s world and the navy blue suit uniform of the Royal family - its a wonderful piece of costuming that tells so much of how each of them are fitting into the others worlds, especially wen the black and navy waffle one is only worn early on - it is the cross over garment!

The ties have a similar story to tell - we see him wearing 4 ties - a yellow one we see in the beginning in the news reel and never see him in again and then we get the lighter blue striped one at the polo match - the one most similar to the striped ones we see Henry wear - suggesting he is trying to fit into this new world - Henry’s world - that he’s been invited into - its somewhat jarring for his character and plays on the idea of trying too hard - its therefore telling we don’t see it happen again - we only see hi in a striped tie again at he end during election night and accompanied by the black suit we saw him in a couple of times on the campaign trail in Texas. the blue tie is the only other tie we see him wear and it nicely connects all the key moments he has while in his suit - key political moments - his speech at the DNC followed by his speech to the press after the email hack and when he is at Buckingham Palace facing up to the King.

The final ting to talk about is the khaki green shirt jacket - I cannot tell you how happy I was with this costuming choice (and not because it was screaming Eddie Diaz from 911 vibes) khaki is so associated with military - with the army - anti is the most perfect choice for this scene - army are about war - they go somewhere to fight - to storm the palace etc so to have Alex - who has never worn anything remotely like this before rock up to KP to fight for his relationship - for his love - is the perfect choice, its a subtle yet clever way of emphasising the Alex has chosen to fight for what he wants - for his relationship with Henry and what makes it more telling is that we only see him change out of it once Henry has explicitly stated that he will try to be brave and that he wants history to include his love for Alex. It is why we see Alex in the yellow and blue Mexican patterned jacket - he no longer needs fight for his love because he has won - this yellow/blue jacket is a piece of costume tied into pivotal moments - we see the jacket twice - when he wins his bid to get the Claremont campaign to focus on Texas and Ellen tells him he’s going to Texas, and again when he has won the day with Henry and they are back together - in some ways that makes this his victory jacket - victory in his own personal battles - battles that are central to who he is and his development and I think that’s petty neat!

Hopefully you've enjoyed this deep dive into the sets and costumes of the film - I've loved writing it and I can only hope its coherent! Feel free to hit me up with any questions or comments and likes and reblogs are love ❤️🤍💙 thank you for reading and until next time...

#this really is a monster post!!!#rwrb meta #red white and royal blue #alex claremont diaz #henry fox mountchristen windsor #rwrb movie #first prince #costume meta #set meta #meta #long post #kym costume meta #costume theory #colour theory #colour theory meta #kym writes meta

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jacksmusesdrv3 · 3 months

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Your twin theory stuff has been going on for quite some time, have you considered making a run down on it because it’s a bit hard to find all your points and information on it because of how long you’ve spent on it and I’m very curious but struggling to put it all together

(Alright, take two since I got stuck for a loooong while)

This is a basic explanation of the Ouma-Monokuma twin theory! I will do my best to condense the concepts down in a way that flows simply and is easily understandable, but it will be hard to cover everything while keeping to the most relevant information. So if this doesn't do the job, I might finish the much longer meta on ao3 at a later date, in which I will cover… everything I possibly can, no holds barred and without the blog links. Which will take considerably longer and need very careful execution. (Yeah, this is the short version…)

General disclaimer: this is a view informed by at least six years of trial and error, ruminating in canon for patterns and their meaning. Through all this, I recognise that it is still a theory, and it doesn't make others’ ideas less meaningful. All the same, I need you to understand that this theory and its analysis is fundamental to my view of Danganronpa as a whole, not just my feelings about Ouma. And in my opinion, the presence of bad writing in DRV3 does not negate that view, either. So if you believe that it does, I hope we can agree to differ on our reader responses instead, after all is said and done. Thank you.

Alright, with that out of the way, dropping this under a cut as it's lengthy. Though rather than a lot of detail on what this means for Ouma's character right now, I'm going to dig through the surface with the basis of reframing, roles, academy history, psychology, narrative style for the mastermind, and the broader consequences, with feelings from my perspective to wrap up. I hope that will help give a perspective of the theory world, so that any evidence I give should fit easier in the future.

⚠️ Reader discretion is advised- this content details abuse further on and will be marked like this! ⚠️

[‘Then this story's not over.’]

The way I see this situation is basically like a 3D sculpture with two different pictures- ‘the fiction’ and ‘the conspiracy’. That is to say- in the ‘fiction’, there are things that are effectively motifs or throwaway remarks (such as, Ouma's comment about having a brother in his FTE), but in the ‘conspiracy’, they become clues to a hidden interconnected situation. A puzzle in the meta, essentially.

To begin, I’ll outline components of this framing, as these are necessary to understand how this turnabout works.

Catbox world: the question hanging in the air, 'is HPA fiction, or is it real'? What would the consequences of the latter be for the game and outside world of DRV3? In order to begin answering this, I think this way:

Domino effect: 'when you learn a new fact, you learn something else along with it'. Ex: if HPA is real, a very large and clandestine organisation may also be real, since one was connected to HPA's library. With that possibility opened, there are… a lot more potential threads coming from it.

Unreliable narrator: is there something Shuichi is missing? In Ouma's lab, along with the complete history file there are monitors and a hatch, and in his dorm room there’s a whiteboard with pictures and notes scrawled on, the latter two Shuichi doesn't even notice. There are things he cannot verify too - such as Rantaro's odd memory of the forgotten Prologue - which is left up to us, the players.

Contextual reframe: with the new information, we can infer for example that record keepers of the past are made obsolete, and since the HPA history was in Ouma's lab, this could make him a viable record keeper. If TDR's agenda is with historical record, its identity may be the secret society involved in conspiracies. This can greatly affect some of Ouma's comments in hindsight- one relevant to this is his FTE remark about ‘tricking the entire world’.

With doubt already on the most basic aspect of the 'fiction' narrative (that is, ‘HPA is fiction’) we can apply this principle to the Flashback Lights and by extension, the idea that the cast must also be fiction, too.

Ex: Shuichi and Kiibo were made to see the Flashback Light panel in a way that was rigged up to be seen- it should not have been visible to multiple persons, so it's likely to have been tampered. We know Shuichi to be helpless with computers, so he would not be able to verify if anything else is amiss (ex. Kubs Pad and other options being withheld). What's more, with ‘fiction things’ - such as the Shukuchi method for Ryoma - being relevant in both the ‘weird backstory’ and in the main narrative, there's a possibility that some of the Lights are real memories or at least closely based on their real experiences.

[‘A liar like me knows their own kind.’]

When you reframe the context in an excessive manner like this, it can also affect known roles, even events and relationships. I reason it beginning like this:

Tsumugi becomes a patsy for Monokuma. Just like the fake Makoto in DR2 led the narrative to trap Hajime, Tsumugi misled others similarly, with incomplete knowledge of her own cospox. That is, her cospox being real in the sense of the effects on her person, doesn't necessarily mean that HPA is fiction, because it's about her perception

Kiibo becomes a patsy for Monokuma, someone whose true (military) nature was obfuscated to himself on a metaphysical level, via code-hijacking. This means that high-powered functions he has are strange to him, and he’s easily manipulated into believing lies about his function (such as ‘strength of a senior citizen’, and the ‘audience surveys’ that he cannot verify)

Ouma becomes Monokuma’s double, like Mukuro taking the identity of Junko, as the monitors and hatch are a direct parallel to Junko. This means that Ouma has a deeper relationship and notably intrinsic connection to Monokuma as well as less freedom from him, likely has extensive knowledge of everyone, and has his own memories. And from that, an incentive to guide people he considers his friends, to minimise himself and his own struggles while working against Monokuma subtly, even to manufacture his disappearance in ch5 to take the fight to Monokuma alone

Shuichi becomes the ‘shadow mastermind’, like Izuru- the ‘traitor protagonist’ who sealed and sabotaged the group’s will to live, while losing his memory of that. This is reflected by Chapter 1's case, wherein he had created the perfect setup for Kaede to enact her own plan to kill, and had conflict over his actions that he had tried to shut away. It also provides context for Ouma being especially wary of Shuichi, noting on the whiteboard to ‘be cautious’ of him, especially if he has a relationship with Monokuma as well.

These are the big four as far as the mastermind agenda is concerned, but another interesting role-reframe is the Monokubs. Remember that Shirokuma and Kurokuma were fragments of the mastermind, and Shirokuma’s role in UDG is to deceive the player? What if the Monokubs had such a situation, split up into comedic personality fragments? Were the melodramas telling some sort of story as well- the story of Monokuma?

If so, there may be some clues from them. But first…

[‘Designed like a school’]

As to the academy’s lost mystery, it’s possible it was originally an experiment. Rantaro’s hunch was that there was ‘someone behind Monokuma’, and in Salmon mode he points out that Monokuma could have ‘taken over the facility’. A bunch of files in Shuichi’s lab suggest that the culprits of the scenarios were noted for their ‘tricks’, likely pertaining to their Ultimate talent.

A concerning matter is that the details of the Gopher Project’s plans were crossed out, with us unable to see why youngsters of Ultimate status were required. Doubly concerning is that Ouma himself appears to have amazing, even supernatural ability, demonstrated in ch5 with his scripting- a talent such as that is in line with Junko’s abilities.

Speaking of that, it must be said that Junko's true ability was left a mystery by the game's end. It was also a subject of much curiosity by HPA, so if Ouma is a supernaturally talented person, that could speak volumes as to his own position. His status as an 'invisible Ultimate’ alone raises questions as to why it has to be hidden, or rather, why he has to obscure it. It could be that he is oppressed by the talent system itself, and if that's the case, perhaps he is its guinea pig along with V3's Monokuma. But it's not just about Ouma's ability- if Monokuma too had a similarly strong supernatural talent and/or circumstance, that could explain not only his posing as a ‘god’, but Angie’s mysteriously intimate knowledge of others' personal ideals through such a ‘god’. That is, if she was possessed by someone with knowledge of the cast's ideals, and who was exploiting them in the Love Hotel.

Moreover, if Ouma and Monokuma were supernaturally gifted, there's a good possibility that if the vault clues were a layered clue symbolic of them- the ‘light’ and ‘dark’ Monokumas depicted on the ‘twins’ clue for the vault - then they were not only siblings, but twins- identical twins. This allows for another ‘report card misidentification’ a la Junko-Mukuro, while the Flashback Light panel refers to the ‘Gamemaster’ rather than ‘ringleader’ (meaning an identical double could interact with it), and from a lore perspective, twins were known in Danganronpa Kirigiri to be the subject of (highly unethical) research, and identical twins would be the most sought after for genetics reasons.

Such research could eventually wind up creating Ouma and his brother - seemingly the highest of any known talents - through a form of eugenics, not unlike Byakuya’s backstory. From there, there's no telling what could have happened…

[‘Eh…?’]

Now I can get to the psychology behind the bear. If a person behind Monokuma had such a past with this academy, traits can be speculated:

⚠️ Content: incest, child abuse, sexual abuse, psych torture/institutionalisation. ⚠️

Vengeful: in ch2, Monokuma suggests he may hate the cast for something, and tells them to ‘work for the answer’. Interestingly, Monotaro (leader persona) makes note of ‘red lies’ in the Salmon mode, and red lies are for revenge.

Extremely traumatised and mentally ill: if it is Ouma’s brother, and he’s wearing a straitjacket, this could imply institutional abuse. Monokuma’s behaviours in ch3 (a mental shutdown) and ch4 (depression) could denote severe mental damage, and having the academy cleared of bugs gives credence to him having an affliction with bugs like Ouma ( foaming at the mouth and passing out).

Depraved: in ch4, Ouma noted he would ‘strangle the one he loves’ to ‘keep his eyes on him’, and appears to play a similar threatening, possessive role in the Love Hotel. Implied in the Monokubs’ melodrama, Monokuma may have coerced his own sibling into having relations- though he may have forgotten his sibling entirely due to trauma.

People pleaser: Ouma says that he ‘lies to entertain people’ in his Salmon mode ending, which could reflect his persona (Monokuma)’s desires. It may be that his desire to ‘not be boring’ feeds into this persona, too, as it's something so serious to him that it was shown as basically a dying wish.

In this sense, the mastermind can be similar to Monaca- as she took control over the city (while Monokuma stated to have taken over the country), became mentally ill as a result of the abuse inflicted on her, lied (about an injury) in order to make her abusers nicer to her, and became depraved in a way childish and sadistic (in how she toys with Kotoko and Nagisa, for instance). There's also the narrative effect of obscuring her trauma with unreliable narrator, and even Monaca’s own warped sense of humour that obscures it in tandem.

[Twin with supernatural talent (Junko Enoshima), a result of experimentation (Izuru Kamukura), childishness complex (Monaca Towa) and all combined (Kokichi Ouma)]

For narrative styles, DRV3's Monokuma is a culmination of approaches to make the game’s mystery truly warped to its core. Taking the masterminds’ actions from the past games:

Junko selectively picked photographs to sow discord about the group’s reality

AI Junko (a plant by Izuru) tried to lead Hajime into making a choice without proper context

Monaca led Komaru through a growth journey to use her for impact at the end

These can be attributed to:

the Flashback Lights- some real, others ‘rotten apples’, but overall context is dubious

the ‘It is fiction’ declaration- may be a leading question, again with dubious context

Shuichi’s ‘confidence growth’- that makes him more credible to those watching outside

(As for ‘context being dubious’, it should be noted that the Twilight mystery has a similar vibe in terms of how it is chopped up and misrepresented on the first viewing. This is particularly interesting when you factor in the mixed Kubs Pads giving other characters information.)

Speaking of ‘using’, Monokuma talks about how someone could be used by expressions of gratitude. In parallel to this, Shuichi is talking about how he was happy to be ‘useful to others as a detective’, and regards their gratitude personally. But it’s concerning that Shuichi and his history is a topic for ‘Monokuma Theatre’, when you factor in what Monaca did in UDG.

The basic concept is: with Monokuma’s agenda towards the end being to throw out foreshadowing and mystery - to deny its purpose - he wants you to make the decision of ignoring the heart, discarding the mystery and the path to the answer. In this sort of vague and unnerving way, a ‘hidden mastermind’ is like a progression of Monaca’s style. Symbolically, Shuichi’s journey seems to be one where he is on the fringe of going astray the entire time, and in this reading, he ultimately does with the loss of the game's mystery.

What follows is the player's re-examination of the canon context and in this case, a ‘salvage effort’ of what was lost. And ultimately, in the quagmire of broken context, Ouma's mixed relationship with Shuichi is fuel for thought, because his cryptic behaviour - like the game he plays in his FTE - keeps you guessing on what he's been trying to say.

[Members… of what?]

So, factoring in earlier recontextualisation - of the large organisation likely spanning the world - is the idea brought up during Ouma's FTE, that I question like this: could Shuichi have joined a nefarious organisation after all, and following in Salmon mode: is there any indicator Ouma has concerns about Shuichi’s intentions in general (that is, regardless of whether or not his past self would have been capable of less-than-moral decisions)?

What about others in the cast- a Prime Minister who had run away from her post, a military robot, a super inventor, an assassin? An artist with odd brainwashing powers, a musician with the ability to connect to others’ hearts through music? Because given that the DR2 group had affected the world with their talents after being manipulated, it's possible that the V3 group’s talents had a similar part to play, too. For instance, Kaito’s FTE detailed the possibility of communicating with aliens, and trading technology with them- and as it happens, there is notably a very weird technology in the academy, capable of ridiculous feats. This kind of unknown in the narrative speaks of a whole world that we barely know, even now.

If this kind of world is what Ouma is burdened by, something beyond the protagonist's understanding, that too is a story waiting to be told. And his strange interactions with Shuichi could be at the heart of this story…

[‘Just hit the reset button on your feelings’]

As for the relationship with Shuichi, that is particularly difficult to give in evidence- partly given the culprit in his backstory, and how if Monokuma was that culprit - someone with a strong agenda against Shuichi - that might link to both twins. But due to the death of one of the siblings in that backstory, it warrants a supernatural idea such as resurrection, that has yet to be proven viable in-universe. If we remember Angie having a weird supernatural air about her though, and that she was implied to be in a cult, you could still infer that cults were involved in the supernatural. It’s entirely possible that a high-profile cult had come to the point of using resurrections, although that’s very much deeplore, as is the supernatural in general.

So while I can’t say too much about technical lore, like with the organisation, I can talk about the vibes I have with the theory, to focus on a sense of grounding in character instead:

“Ouma and Monokuma are both sidelined by the narrative. A not-insignificant part of that was caused by Shuichi in his past, even if he was led into the cause unwittingly, and the actions of Shuichi’s present self in missing memories. As a result, Ouma is in a nerfed position during the game despite his supernatural talent. Unable to say anything without surveillance, he is under a great deal of stress and pent up, ambivalent feelings - not least towards Shuichi and Monokuma - that he tries mostly to deflect. After all, it would not do to give too much away, and ruin his own plans.”

I have a detailed ‘song lyric analysis’ of sorts to tie to this, as a way of exploring feelings. Part of the reason I’d go this far, is Ouma as the designated ‘narrative scapegoat’ has always just fit well for me, given that the cast is shown to struggle with their treatment of him. Even leaving analysis aside, I feel it would be very satisfying (cathartic, even!) to explore an angle where he was suppressed, and that his position was legitimately the consequence of others actions right from the start, making the whole ‘pretending to be a villain’ situation even more painfully ironic.

Plus it would be a welcome change from the notion of ‘misguided morally-grey antagonist who needs to change’, in my opinion, as Ouma’s unchanging self is something I hold particularly strongly. So instead of the arc of drastic change, the thing to explore would be how he functions and struggles with others (in mundane as well as grand ways), and also gets them to change, to understand him. It would also be interesting to expand on the theme of talent abuse, to have a Monokuma who was a product of the corrupt talent system- rather like Izuru was, but this time fully present in the narrative, and in tandem with someone else connected to him.

Overall, I feel that a situation where the protagonist thinks he’s won, while a mysterious someone has been struggling in the sidelines to affect change, is a real goldmine for a mystery situation. Especially from replaying the game, and picking up odd signs that something may not have been what it seemed. There may not be much to go from there (as things stand right now, at least) but the palpable frustration means that through this perspective, I can - at times very viscerally - imagine Ouma’s frustration and powerlessness. That alone colours the game and the interactions in a whole new light for me.

I hope this helped clarify at least some of what the heck is going on- and why I would even see Ouma this way at all, if it’s so convoluted. I have struggled to put it into words all this time, but with the pieces flying in my face from every direction, it’s hard to not try putting them together. I usually don’t game on Hard Mode like this, but something about Ouma compels me- whatever Kodaka’s intentions, I believe him when he says Danganronpa V3 is without end.

Thank you for reading!

#drv3 #kokichi ouma #monokuma V3 #V3's Theory of Vengeance #king horse twins #long long long!!#SERIOUSLY FUCKING LONG #LONGER THAN THE 'HORSE TWINS' ONE #I'm really trying to run down on everything necessary #but I'm losing track myself honestly #so uh. I hope this helps!?!#dr psychology #other dr #talent oppression

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0junemeatcleaver0 · 3 months

Text

ℑ𝔫𝔱𝔯𝔬𝔡𝔲𝔠𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫

Muta Cupido; An examination of Roman sexual morality, what makes a man a vir, the practice of oratorical celibacy, and the appetites of both a mortal man and monster.

Ages ago, I wrote a quick-n-dirty meta (which I will link to later in this post). At the time, I was quite proud of it. But after having done my last Marius deep dive, all of my previous metas now look lackluster to me. Consider this to be the updated version of the original meta. It is not necessary to have read the previous meta before this one, though those of you who have (and even those of you who haven’t) should be able to pick up what I’m putting down before I even link to the original.

That being said, I would suggest that you do read this companion piece I wrote about what (in the mind of a Roman) made a man, a man. It’s a relatively short read, and will help add more context to the short discussion on the same topic later in this post.

A quick note before anyone tries to jump up my ass (again): I view meta as serving the same purpose as fic, just via a different methodology. Where in fic you dream up scenarios to put the characters through to see how they might act in those situations, I feel meta is a way of taking what we know canonically about the character and attempting to recontextualize the facts with additional information. Just as there are nearly infinite equations one can use to reach a sum, so too are there different ways a single character might end up the person we read on the page. In short: This post is meant to be a thought experiment and you’d have to be some kind of fool to think its author is proclaiming herself some kind of authority on the subject.

𝔖𝔢𝔵𝔲𝔞𝔩 ℌ𝔢𝔞𝔩𝔱𝔥 𝔦𝔫 𝔄𝔫𝔠𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱 ℜ𝔬𝔪𝔢

The time of Pliny the Elder and the four humors; a time when medical theories that seem ignorant to the modern mind were rife. And while I could spend quite a long time dunking on the science of yesteryear, I’ll keep things brief by only focusing on ideas surrounding sexual health–especially where it pertains to the sexual health of men.

As pictured above, one very important aspect of health for a male was the regulation of semen. Semen was a very important bodily fluid, as it was thought to be made via a mix of (the humor) blood and pneuma (“vital air”) and was believed to be the fuel on which internal organs ran.

Blood and semen, in fact, were so inextricably linked in the Roman mind that the two would be even poetically coupled throughout different texts in oft times violent ways. Aya Betensky says in Lucretius and Love:

“Let us begin with Lucretius’ Venus in De Rerum Natura 4. He introduces her as a physiologically as possible, moving from a discussion of dreams to wet dreams and then to the mechanics of ejaculation, which he shows mockingly to be the body’s enactment of the romantic expression ‘wound of love’. Semen is equated with blood spurting out of a wound. (4. 1049-1056)”.

Greek physician Galen warns in his treatise On Semen that exorbitant sexual activity would result in a loss of pneuma and thus, vitality:

“It is not at all surprising that those who are less moderate sexually turn out to be weaker, since the whole body loses the purest part of both substances, and there is besides an accession of pleasure, which by itself is enough to dissolve the vital tone, so that before now some persons have died from excess of pleasure.”

As detailed further in this post’s companion piece, the rules for manhood were highly prescriptive to the Romans. Every man of good moral standing concerned with their own virtus would have also been weary of losing too much semen–whether through promiscuity or nocturnal emissions.

As Catharine Edwards states in The Politics of Immorality in Ancient Rome:

“Morality and manliness [were considered] the distinguishing features of Rome.”

And while Rome’s mos maiorum were such a public affair (indeed, these customs and social norms functioned almost as some sort of morality play each citizen was expected to participate in while in public), these expectations leaked into even the most private sectors of citizen’s lives–including the bedroom.

Robert Sharp speaking about how censores regulated the public in Incontinentia, Licentia et Libedo: The Juxtaposition of Morality and Sexuality during the Roman Republic.

Indeed, a lack of control over the self (which included being able to appropriately manage one’s sex life) indicated that a man was incapable of governing others–a highly detrimental accusation in the heyday of the Paterfamilias. As per Catharine Edwards in Unspeakable Professions: Public Performance and Prostitution in Ancient Rome:

“The enjoyment of ‘low sensual pleasure’ threatened to erode the elite male’s identity as a cultured person”.

Still yet, there were some men for whom this fear of loss of masculine potency loomed larger than most.

Because a loss of pneuma was thought to cause a whole host of physical ailments–but most importantly to this discussion slow mindedness, an ‘effeminate’ voice, and general weakness of character–the men perhaps most concerned with keeping hold of their pneuma were orators.

One such orator was C. Licinius Calvus (born 82 BCE, died possibly in 47 BCE). In Natural History, Pliny the Elder name checks Calvus during a discussion of medical uses for lead. Because Calvus took to putting lead plates on his kidneys to combat having wet dreams. John Dugan says in Preventing Ciceronianis: C. Licinius Calvus’ Regimens for Sexual and Oratorical Self-Mastery:

“Pliny, moreover, connects this therapy with Calvus’ literary activity, stipulating that the orator’s treatment was designed to ‘preserve the strength of his body for the labor of his studies’.”

The oratorial obsession with preventing wet dreams isn’t where the scholarly preoccupation with keeping one’s seminal fluid to one’s self ended, either. As per the Encyclopedia Britannica:

“As classical civilization developed, two ideals of masculine celibacy appeared, that of the ascetic philosopher and that of the priest of the mystery religions. [...] Pythagoras (c. 580 BC - c. 500) established a small community that emphasized study, vegetarianism, and sexual restraint or abstinence. Many later philosophers believed that celibacy is conducive to the detachment and equilibrium required by the philosopher’s calling. The Stoic philosopher Epictetus (AD 55- C. 135) for example, held that the ideal teacher would be unmarried and that his task would require freedom from the cares of family life.”

𝔈𝔭𝔦𝔠𝔲𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔫𝔦𝔰𝔪, 𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔰𝔪, 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔖𝔢𝔵𝔲𝔞𝔩 𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔱𝔶 𝔦𝔫 𝔄𝔫𝔠𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱 ℜ𝔬𝔪𝔢

Now that we’ve gotten a taste of how physicians viewed sexual activity, we’ll move on to what the philosophers thought on the subject.

There were two major schools of philosophy in Ancient Rome–Epicureanism and Stoicism. Epicureanism was a philosophy that taught that pleasure was the highest good and the thing through which you could attain tranquility and freedom from fear and physical pain. Stoicism was the philosophy that taught that life was best lived in harmony with reason, was based in knowledge, and showed a complete indifference to pain and pleasure.

𝔈𝔭𝔦𝔠𝔲𝔯𝔢𝔞𝔫 𝔖𝔢𝔵𝔲𝔞𝔩 𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔱𝔶

Within Epicurean thought, pleasure was believed to be the highest good. According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

“Epicurus’ ethics is a form of egoistic hedonism; i,e., he says that the only thing that is intrinsically valuable is one’s own pleasure; anything that has value is valuable merely as a means to securing pleasure for oneself.”

To Epicurus, pleasure simply meant satisfying one’s desires. He believed there to be two types of desire, “moving” and “static”. Moving desire happens when one is actively fulfilling the desire, such as eating when you feel hungry. Static desire occurs after fulfillment, i.e. feeling comfortably full after eating. He goes on to state he believes that static pleasure is the best form of pleasure. From IEoP:

“If pleasure results from getting what you want (desire-satisfaction) and pain from not getting what you want (desire-frustration), then there are two strategies you can pursue with respect to any given desire: you can either strive to fulfill the desire, or you can try to eliminate the desire. For the most part, Epicurus advocates the second strategy, that of paring your desires down to a minimum core, which are then easily satisfied.”

Epicurus divided desire into three categories:

Natural and necessary (food, drink, shelter, and personal safety)

Natural and unnecessary (things which will give you pleasure but lacking these things will not make your life impossible and/or unbearable)

Unnatural and unnecessary (desire for social standing, political power, fame, and glory)

He places sex in this second category.

Later thinkers in this school of thought–namely Lucretius–would take harsher stances on sexual desire. Male desire, specifically, being viewed as pathological, frustrating, and violent (at least according to Robert D. Brown in Lucretius on Love and Sex [1987])–which is perhaps why Lucretius preached an ambivalent view of sex.

Lucretius treated the sex drive as muta cupido, comparing the physiological response of ejaculation to blood spurting from a wound (again, via Brown in Lucretius on Love and Sex [1987]).

𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔦𝔠 𝔖𝔢𝔵𝔲𝔞𝔩 𝔐𝔬𝔯𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔱𝔶

This school of thought emphasized sex within marriage as a way of fortifying an institution that helped to sustain social order. Such was this emphasis that by modern standards, we might consider these fathers of this philosophy to be homophobic (though that would be looking at things through a rather narrow and myopic lens)--Musonius disapproved of same-sex relations due to their lack of ability to create offspring. Seneca and Epictetus, meanwhile, merely favored male-female pairings over same sex couplings due to their ability to procreate.

While these views surrounding same sex relations could be considered problematic by modern minds, the Stoics were more egalitarian in their thoughts surrounding highly gendered rules and how they opened people (mainly men) to hypocrisy–at least for the time.

Indeed, both Musonius and Seneca believed if men wanted to exercise authority over women because they believed themselves to be in possession of greater self control, then those men ought to be able to manage their sex drives.

This, of course, is not akin to the sex positivity movement of today, but rather a call for all good citizens–male and female–to control their baser urges so as not to embarrass the Republic. The (for lack of a better term) proto-feminism only went so far, as Seneca–staunchly against adultery–believed it was worse for a wife to cheat on her husband than for a husband to cheat on his wife.

Kathy L. Gaca in her book The Making of Fornication: Eros, Ethics and Political Reform in Greek Philosophy and Early Christianity states that Seneca also believed that a wise man should make love to his wife by exercising good judgment (iudicium) and not emotion (affectus). Though this is a much stricter stance than taken by other Stoics, who largely saw sex as a means of promoting affection between married couples.

But while Stoicism at least at first glance seems to take a more even keeled approach to the topic, it was not above fear mongering about the perils of the human sex drive. In her book, Gaca cites Ad Helviam (13:3), stating:

“To Seneca, sexual desire for pleasure (libido) is a ‘destructive force (exitium) insidiously fixed in the innards’. Unregulated, it becomes cupiditas (lust).”

And here is where I risk losing those of you who didn’t put two and two together until this moment. AKA: I think Marius died a virgin and in this essay I will…

Or, more accurately, since this theory relies on a blending of canon and my research, let us make a melange of sorts.

ℑ𝔫𝔤𝔯𝔢𝔡𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔰 𝔏𝔦𝔰𝔱

For the purpose of keeping things contained to this post, here is a quick summary of the original post:

Marius never mentions taking a shine to anyone while still a mortal

When speaking of his time as a mortal, he never alludes to being a part of any hedonistic activity, though he does admit to documenting the indiscretions of others

He’s only known to have been attracted to one person (Pandora) as a mortal, who he never got with romantically or sexually

And before it gets brought up, I’ll address the passage in Prince Lestat where Teskhamen speaks to Marius and says:

“[...] I saw your libraries, I saw and heard your quick-witted and curious companions, I saw the full blooming power of your experience, the life of a cultured Roman, the life that had made you what you were. I saw the beauty of Italy. I saw the beauty of fleshly love. I saw the beauty of ideas. I saw the beauty of the sea.[...]”

This passage was pointed out to me on my original post. Before we continue, I want to make something clear: I don’t think anyone is wrong for reading this passage as meaning that Marius was party to that ‘fleshly love’. I think it’s ambiguous enough that it could go either way.

My whole reasoning for personally not buying this as evidence against my current theory is a matter of language. Teskhamen front-loads this passage with language that focuses on Marius’ experience. It’s Marius’ library, Marius’s companions, Marius’ life as a cultured Roman. The second half of the passage removes possessive language from the equation entirely and instead focuses solely on the beauty of all he saw–Italy, pleasure, ideas, the sea.

The remoteness of this language coming directly after the language that detailed Marius’ specific lived experience reads as a line of delineation to me. The things Marius did, and then the things Marius witnessed.

This, of course, is in no way meant to be an argument about authorial intent. If I had to guess, Anne wasn’t focused on the preciseness of language here, but rather catching the flow of Teskhamen’s speech patterns. In short, it’s not that deep–it’s just a peculiarity of the writing that stuck out to me and I think lends itself to being read one of two ways. After all, Marius is not responsible for how beautiful the sea or Italy is, nor is he the sole thinker who had every beautiful idea and–it stands to reason, in my opinion, due to these things being grouped together–not necessarily the one participating in the fleshly love.

Moving on.

I’d like to continue my summation by detailing what it is we know (canonically) of Marius’ personality:

Marius (whether he intends to or not) carries his Roman ideals about what makes a good man into the modern age, as called out by Pandora on page 57 of Blood Communion.

Mortal Marius was noticeably odd and aloof. Pandora (again) calls this out on page 54 of Pandora, saying:

“In the crowd, I saw Marius. He looked at me, then back to his book. So strange. I saw him standing against a tree trunk and writing. No one did this–stand against a tree, hold a book in one hand and write with the other. The slave stood beside him with a bottle of ink.”

Showcasing yet again how Marius was still–at around thirty years of age–more invested in documenting fun instead of having any himself (this scene was, after all, set during Saturnalia).

I say ‘still’ because Marius himself says this on page 397 in The Vampire Lestat:

“I’d come to Massilia after a long and studious journey that had taken me through all the great cities of the Empire. TO Alexandria, Pergamon, Athens I’d traveled, observing and writing about the people, and now I was making my way through the cities of Roman Gaul.”

And again in TVL (page 397), the rowdiest he admits to getting is this:

“By the age of twenty, I'd become the scholar and the chronicler, the one who raised his voice at drunken banquets to settle historical and military arguments.”

This identity as a chronicler–while cemented in his twentieth year–carried on into his fortieth year, as we see him still writing his own chronicles when approached by Mael in the tavern from which he was kidnapped (TVL, page 398).

This all, of course, is a rough sketch of Marius as a character and I am obviously relying on you to fill in any gaps with your own understanding of him as he appears on page. After all, it would take quite a while to transcribe every moment where Marius was particularly Roman, weird, scholarly, or restrained. Keep your own favorite instances in mind as we move on to the next bit:

𝔏𝔢𝔱'𝔰 𝔐𝔞𝔨𝔢 𝔞 𝔖𝔬𝔲𝔭

It is my belief that it makes a lot of sense that Marius (especially if you buy into the “Marius was never a senator” theory) being a man who values his identity as a Roman man and an intellectual, would buy fully into practicing celibacy as a way to protect his mental acuity.

It was a common enough medical practice in his day, he obviously highly values his intellect, he was very serious about and dedicated to his scholarly undertakings, if ineligible for a political position he might want to win the respect of his fellow men of good standing by becoming something of a historian/philosopher, he’d only been very attracted to a woman he couldn’t marry anyway, and he was a bit of an off putting weirdo (affectionate) to boot.

Marius has been shown to exhibit respect for the great thinkers of his time (name checking Xenophon, Herodotus and Poseidonius on page 399 of TVL alone) and it’s not much of a stretch (especially when paired with his habit of loudly and forcefully arguing at banquets) to assume he had a great deal of respect for orators and their craft.

Whether Marius were ever a fan of Calvus is up to debate–Calvus died one to two decades before Marius was born (there is no record of Calvus’ exact year of death), he would have been recent history for Marius. Calvus’ poems would have still existed (in more than the fragments we have now), his speeches would have been spoken about, and was fairly well known in his time. My point is, orators were well respected as men and intellectuals and it wouldn’t shock me if Marius was a fan of any of them in specific or in general and that respect could have been the thing that kicked off any possible decision to remain celibate.

In short, I believe there are many plausible reasons why Marius may have died a virgin and I think all of these in combination would make a very fun space to play in, character-wise.

ℜ𝔢𝔰𝔬𝔲𝔯𝔠𝔢𝔰

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4349696?read-now=1&seq=10#page_scan_tab_contents

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1215514?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4349198?read-now=1&seq=2#page_scan_tab_contents

https://www.jstor.org/stable/270440?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

#the vampire chronicles #vampire chronicles #marius de romanus #marius #my meta stuff

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yeetlegay · 2 years

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there's been so much emphasis on kinn saying "you're mine" repeatedly to porsche & him rebuking this with "I am my own"... do u reckon there will be a scene of kinn being all "I am yours. as you are mine" in the future?

Ooooooh anon. I LOVE this question and it provoked some major brain waves so I wanted to wait until I had some proper time to sit down and respond. I’m really gonna go crazy with this lol—this ask literally just spawned a meta analysis I did NOT have lined up for this week. Anon u are powerful af.

Possession has definitely been an ongoing motif, and there’s a ton to unpack in how it’s shifted over the course of just the 4 episodes we have. So here we go:

Ownership and possession in Kinnporsche: a basic breakdown

So let’s just run through the highlights of this development. I’m gonna try to limit myself as much as I can for the sake of time and length, but there’s just SO much more happening than I could ever capture in one post, so hopefully this can work as sort of a base for people to work from if they want to go back and dig through the episodes for more of the details.

Kinn and Porsche’s relationship starts off as purely transactional. In the bar fight in episode 1, Kinn is buying Porsche’s skills, albeit temporarily. His goal for the remainder of that episode is to acquire Porsche, at his father’s instruction. He sees Porsche as an object, another tool in his belt, another bullet in his gun—nothing more.

When Kinn finally does get Porsche in his circle, he immediately tries to “claim” him, to put him in his place as a pawn in a much larger game. And Porsche basically says, “Fuck that.”

But that last scene in episode 1 really cinches the motif and establishes the trajectory of their relationship. I’ve seen some amazing meta written about the chess metaphor (I can’t find any that I’ve reblogged, but feel free to link them and I’ll add them in here!), but to sum up: Kinn’s father views Porsche as an object too, only a much more strategically important one. Porsche isn’t just one of many tools in Kinn’s arsenal. Porsche is the lynchpin for Kinn’s reign as the imminent leader of the Theerapanyakul family. Why does he see him this way? We don’t really know. But Porsche’s recruitment is certainly part of a much bigger design, even if they haven’t fully taken into account that possessing him doesn’t necessarily mean possessing his loyalty.

(I’ll talk a little more about chess at the end of this post.)

Kinn continues to see Porsche as an object, one that needs a little extra work to fit in place, but an object nevertheless. He literally uses Porsche as a prop in target practice, purely to prove the point that he owns him, that he can command him as he likes, that Porsche is powerless. Even Tankhun plays into this; he dresses Porsche up like a mermaid, makes him a plaything, and then Kinn swoops in for a few taunts to drive home the point that Porsche really is just an accessory, only important insofar as he’s useful.

Kinn does blur the lines a little bit later that same day when he brings Porsche to the tailor to get dressed for the event that evening. At first it feels more like he’s dressing up a doll or other object again, but then their eyes meet. It’s a small moment that marks a bigger shift as Kinn registers his own attraction to Porsche, his growing fascination with this person who continues to rebel against the constraints of his position. It’s one of the earliest moments that he really considers Porsche, reckons with him on an equal level, even if Porsche himself isn’t aware that’s what’s happening.

And then we hit the choking scene, which is where the whole concept of ownership goes a little sideways. Kinn’s statement (“It’s my fault I can’t handle my people”) is a clear signal to the Second Family that Porsche is unimportant, an object to be controlled. But thanks to Pete, we understand what Kinn’s intentions really were, and we see that Kinn’s outward ownership of Porsche (“controlling his people”) was a cover for saving Porsche’s life. And that by extension means Kinn is starting to think of Porsche in a more complicated way.

I wish I had time to get more into it, but the ending of episode 2 also has massive implications for Kinn's sense of ownership over Porsche. Porsche approaches Kinn, armed with the reasoning behind his earlier actions, and steps into the role assigned to him. He makes him shitty coffee, acts a little more like the bodyguard he's supposed to be, even down to his body language when Tankhun arrives (legs slightly apart, straight posture, hands clasped in front of him). He's not great at it, but he tries. Kinn has earned a small bit of his respect, his trust, and he rewards him with a bit of buy-in on the idea that he is, on some level, owned by Kinn.

Only for Kinn to immediately trade him away to his brother like a baseball card. Oof.

Porsche's reaction to Kinn giving up ownership of him, giving up his claim, is just bonkers. He doesn't show any apparent attraction to or feelings for Kinn at this point, and yet something in him instinctively fixates on Kinn's "rejection" of him. Especially after being with Tankhun, bored out of his mind, no challenges in sight, he goes full petty bitch when he sees Kinn again. "Who says I'm free?" he asks Kinn. Left unsaid is the implicit "I'm not yours to order around anymore." (Granted, Kinn is still ultimately higher ranking than Tankhun and technically is still his boss, but this is semantics to Porsche. Kinn still gave him away.) It's almost like he's trying to make Kinn jealous. And he's got no idea that's what he's doing.

The wound tending scene. THE WOUND TENDING SCENE.

Once again we see Porsche in petty bitch mode. I'm still convinced he had a whole Fuck All Men playlist blaring in his ears during that training sequence (ft. Bust Your Windows and Before He Cheats). He's just so pissy about Kinn trading him away on Tankhun's whim.

BUT THEN!!! We have Kinn making one of his comments. "This place belongs to me. So everything in it belongs to me." (Including Porsche.) In the first episode, Porsche rejects Kinn's ownership. ("My life is mine.") But here? He gives a little, playful shrug and doesn't answer. And what's really interesting is the expression on his face. He's pleased. He likes what Kinn said, the way he reasserted ownership over Porsche, even if only to make a point. And immediately afterward, he actually takes the initiative to bring up the mole, showing concern for Kinn's safety. It's an expression of genuine interest and investment in his role that Porsche hasn't made before. And it's a reciprocation of the interest Kinn has shown him, first by trying to pull him from the line of fire and then by turning up to help him clean his wound.

Again, trying to keep this post as short as possible, but it's no coincidence that the next time they're alone together, it ends in a kiss.

GAH okay well the scene by the pool is pretty straightforward. Kinn doesn't like Vegas playing with his things. Porsche doesn't register this as possessiveness, he just thinks Kinn is being weird. It's interesting to imagine how his behavior would differ if he remembered the kiss; maybe if he did, he'd see Kinn's jealousy a little more clearly. But oh well.

Now I don't even have room to talk about the scene after the sauna where Kinn and Vegas basically have a dick-measuring/pissing contest right in front of Porsche's salad, but that's a whole thing in and of itself.

I am nowhere NEAR done talking about this scene. I feel absolutely FERAL every time I think about it.

First things first, Kinn walks in and tells Porsche to stand up, which he does with some confusion. He asks Porsche to take his shirt off, and Porsche offers up a very lackluster resistance that Kinn easily overrides. The way Porsche just...gives into him now, lets him grab his arm, touch him, as though Porsche is his to touch, is astounding. Remember that this is their first interaction since Porsche realized Kinn was the person he kissed on the pier. Even with his confusion over that kiss, he still doesn't withdraw from Kinn physically. He lets himself be ordered around by Kinn, touched by Kinn. He accepts Kinn leaning into his personal space without question.

And I think it's telling that what he most wants to ask Kinn isn't "Why did you kiss me?" or "Do you like me?" No, what he chooses to ask in that moment, what he wants to know most, is "Do you want me to be yours?"

Kinn's response to that question, masked as it is, hurts Porsche. Kinn dismisses him, says he's just like everyone else, just another employee, and not even his employee. Porsche all but asks for Kinn to take him back, and Kinn says no.

Okay, okay, this post is SO LONG, I'm trying to wrap it up, so let's skip ahead to the sex scene. (No time to talk about Porsche asking permission to drink at the bar, but know that I am Thinking About It.)

Firstly, yes, this is undoubtedly dubcon. As I've said before, dubcon and even noncon don't bother me; if they make sense for the story and are handled well, fine by me. It's fiction, the scene is serving a narrative purpose and has compelling implications for both characters' arcs, and at the end of the day a well-told story is what I'm after. So when I talk about Porsche's feelings in this scene, please note I'm not saying any of it makes the encounter fully consensual.

But wow, did this scene crack Porsche's character open. Yes, he's still high and lacking impulse control (though crucially, he's a lot more lucid than he was earlier with Vegas). But he sort of lets loose on Kinn, teases him, provokes him, gropes him, even taunts him with that kiss on the pier, daring Kinn to admit he likes him.

I have to wonder if this is partly a reaction to the trauma earlier, an effort to seek safety in Kinn after he felt so alone and terrified with Vegas. He might be seeking physical contact, affection, protection, a kind of reclaiming if you will. And his altered mental state means he's uninhibited enough to ask for it openly.

What's most fascinating about this scene to me is how happy Porsche looks when Kinn finally gives in, when he's touching him, surrounding him, focused completely on him. Porsche has been craving this connection for longer than even he realizes, and now that he has it, he's relieved, euphoric. He finally feels like he belongs to Kinn, not just in a technical sense but in a physical/emotional sense.

Will he feel this way when he wakes up the next morning? I'm gonna guess probably not, and for good reason. But it still tells us something, that in his most vulnerable moment, he wants this from Kinn, seeks it out from him. He wants to belong to him, in every way he can. I'm sure this has a lot to do with his family, background, etc. but I don't want to speculate too much until we know more.

So to FINALLY answer your question, anon:

I think you really might have a spot-on prediction about where this motif might go. Porsche will be Kinn’s at the end of the day, no question. Not just because he’s in love with Kinn or because Kinn has “claimed” him in some way, but also because this is the whole reason Porsche is there to begin with. Korn chose Porsche as Kinn’s queen from the jump, orchestrated his removal from his old life and brought him to Kinn’s side. He didn’t intend for them to fall in love by any means, but in the end I think he’ll view that element in their relationship as an asset because it ties Porsche to him even more securely, more permanently. Porsche is Kinn’s man, his protector, his advisor, his confidant, and that’s exactly what Korn designed him to be.

So Porsche becoming Kinn’s is inevitable, practically fated, but Kinn becoming Porsche’s in return? Is not part of the design. Kinn saying “You are mine” will come a lot easier than him saying “I am yours” because the second comes with a surrender of power, an acknowledgment that Porsche is his equal. It’ll be a long road for him to get to an emotional place where he’s ready to trust Porsche enough to belong to him, but I agree, anon. I think that line will come in some shape or form, and it might be the moment that changes everything.

(Tagging @luckydragon10, @black-flame-rose, @antique-forvalaka, and @minisculecosmos since I left y'all in suspense over what this ask was about 😂😂)

#kinnporsche #meta #gf: are u screenshotting that gay mafia show AGAIN???#me: AND WHAT OF IT #no but I've never written this much meta in my LIFE this show really got me good ig

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lunanoc · 3 months

Text

PART II: KING MU OF ZHOU AND THE QUEEN MOTHER OF THE WEST

(to see previous disclaimers and context here’s part I of this madness)

blanket spoiler warning for the books once again

fair warning, some of the bold connect-the-dots crack theories are going to start creeping in here, but more meta here we gooo

continuing where we left off with the various versions of the story of king shang of lu dmbj gives us, the wang family powerpoint lesson, besides giving us the third account of those, also introduces new key players, both one we know but did not know of their potential connection to king shang of lu, and a new one that offers an entirely new perspective on this subplot of dmbj lore: king mu of zhou and the queen mother of the west

what the wang powerpoint and the subsequent discussions between li cu and members of the wang family tell us about king mu of zhou and the queen mother of the west is not only interesting in itself, but also ties closely into both king shang’s and iron mask’s story, as well as the overall dmbj lore. i try not to go too far in trying to see possible connections with later books, notably here queen mother’s ghost banquet, because i don’t have the full context for those, so i won’t go into too much detail on what’s essentially a tenuous crack theory. however, for the record, the queen mother of the west as she’s described in sand sea part III could potentially tie into what we learn about the zhang family’s origins at the tail end of queen mother’s ghost banquet, namely that the zhang family are descended from a group of people millennia old (think xia dynasty or older, which makes sense given they were likely also the ones who built the original heavenly palace and the bronze gate in the shang dynasty c. 1600 BC, but that’s a tangent for another time) who ventured beneath the kunlun mountains, ate from the qilin fruit tree (aka the equivalent of the queen mother of the west of chinese myth’s peach tree), and rather than immediately turning into monsters like many who tried did, were special enough for some reason that they gained longevity instead at the cost of eventually, after maybe initially millenia, then progressively centuries, turning into monsters. some of those people then eventually ventured out from beneath the mountains into the vast world, later to form what would be known as the zhang family. but that’s all i’ll say on that

but back to king mu and the queen of the west

to start off, i feel it’s important to be aware that king mu of zhou isn’t a fictional character created by npss, rather he’s a real historical figure who actually existed and was an emperor of the western zhou dynasty (1046-770 BC) while it was at its peak (he himself probably reigned somewhere between 976 and 918 BC). as it happens, his connection to the queen mother of the west also isn’t something created by npss. references to the queen mother of the west go very far back (think shang dynasty mentioned earlier) and she’s one of the more prominent mythological figures in chinese tradition, who among other descriptors, is said to possess the secret of immortality in her garden of magical peaches that grant longevity in the kunlun mountains. either the queen of the west herself or her peaches make several appearances in chinese literature, maybe more famously for a western audience in journey to the west where sun wukong eats some of them and is punished for it

even the story of king mu of zhou and the queen mother of the west meeting is a retelling of another piece of fiction called the tale of king mu, son of heaven, dating back to at earliest the warring states period (since the original copy of it was found in a tomb dating back to the tail end of it). like in sand sea’s rendition of his story, historically king mu of zhou did travel a lot because he enjoyed making territorial conquests, to the extent that king mu of zhou is the one who ultimately expanded china’s territory both east and west beyond the central plains. in the fictional story of the tale of king mu, son of heaven however, king mu of zhou specifically seeks out the queen mother of the west in the kunlun mountains to gain her secret of immortality, and while she ultimately invites him to her jade pool for a banquet where they exchange gifts, she doesn’t give him one of her peaches

in the wang family’s version of this story, it’s explained to li cu that king mu of zhou didn’t care much for politics and preferred running around china as he pleased, ultimately seeking out the queen mother of the west for her famed elixir of immortality. where this version of the story diverges from the myth is that they supposedly ended up falling in love (Sand Sea Part III, Ch. 133, King Mu of Zhou)

king mu of zhou sought out the queen mother of the west because there had been legends even during king mu’s time of her having had this elixir of immortality for a very long time, which tells us at the very least that according to this story, the queen mother he met with was likely the queen mother of legend, or the one chinese mythology equates with a deity to some extent. she’s even further described as having dominion over all the kingdoms of the west, and that her great kingdom spanned from the kunlun mountains to even the qaidam basin, which is where tamutuo is located. i feel this tells us that the queen of the west of tamutuo and the queen mother of the west from king mu’s legend are one and the same. the fact she’s even referred to as “young” despite the breadth of her legacy reinforces the idea that there might be something unnatural about her

you could argue that maybe “queen mother of the west” was an inherited title, and that her kingdom of tamutuo was a matriarchal society that had had many queen mothers, but the fact is there’s no real supporting evidence of that any more than there is of the opposite despite the arguments put forward, so really, you could argue in favor of both. i like to think she was the queen mother of legend, if only because it creates, thanks to the inclusion of the kunlun mountains in her territory, a strong connection in some capacity with the first people cursed with intolerable longevity mentioned in queen mother’s banquet, but once again, take with a grain of salt

slight tangent, i will say however while i’m on this topic that i strongly feel that the zhang family are meant to be depicted as one more of many human corruption motifs that are rampant in dmbj. this is something for another meta, but i would argue that beneath the tomb raiding and the conspiracies, the core theme of dmbj is that “humans are more terrible than monsters”, and so the narrative provides ample examples of human corruption causing others far more misery than any tomb creature ever could. as per their origins talked about in queen mother’s ghost banquet, it’s possible that alongside their knowledge of whatever secrets of the universe they’re privy to, and their subsequent need for control over china’s destiny through the ages, the ancestors of the zhang family had initially ventured out from under the mountains to seek a cure for the side effects of their terrible curse, and gradually discovered that the bronze and jade of the meteorites could potentially provide that. maybe the queen mother of the west was one of their descendants, and perhaps one of the rare people who stand to succeed in that quest (that we know of at least considering she’s presumably still alive in some capacity down there along with chen wenjin and other members of the xisha expedition). just food for thought, but anyone who’s read that far feel free to give your thoughts on queen’s banquet related ideas!

the wang in charge of instructing li cu admits in the course of his tale that they had to make some assumptions (so this means you have to consider this bit to be a little handwavy admittedly) about what exactly the nature of the relationship between king mu of zhou and the queen mother of the west was, and settles on them having fallen in love despite king mu having “invaded” her kingdom and he did invade it, because we conveniently have a single reference to this man outside of sand sea in book 5, when wu xie and xiaoge find murals in the ruins around wu sanxing’s abandoned camp that depict king mu’s invasion of tamutuo that was clearly hostile and was met with responding hostility (Book 5, Ch. 25-26, The Third Night: Relief / The Third Night: Déjà-vu)

it doesn’t mean that these narratives are mutually exclusive and can’t both be true, and that after having been defeated, either party asked for a truce that led to something else, but it does already suggest there might be more to this story than what we’re told of it. this idea somewhat confirms itself, again hinging on believing that the wang’s narrative is one close enough to the truth to be reliable, when li cu calls the romance spin on king mu’s and the queen mother’s story into question (Sand Sea Part III, Ch. 145, The Truth of the World). li cu suggests that the poem she supposedly gifted king mu (which i’ll get into in a little bit), as well as maybe the queen mother of the west herself and her secret of immortality, are all concepts fashioned and embellished by king mu of zhou to facilitate his grand plan which i’ll touch on later, all because he saw “the truth of this world” in the queen mother of the west’s kingdom, and sought not to reveal it to the world, but to conceal it, and build an entire nebulous plan with it at its core

i don’t feel like the queen of the west herself is a fabrication considering both the multiple references to her interspersed throughout various dmbj books, as well as tangible proof of her existence re: tamutuo, but the idea that king mu of zhou might have been the author of the tale of king mu, son of heaven and the subsequent romance plot derived from it in dmbj universe is something i can believe so long as you assume he believed it was one more component in his masterplan. i’m hesitant to call dmbj magical realism because magical realism is very much a western genre of literature and people would do well to remember that western constructs aren’t universally applicable, but dmbj does use a number of structural and thematic elements that magical realism also uses, and this subplot is no exception. contrary to what some might think, npss actually does a significant amount of research when he writes these books, and a lot of the supernatural or fictional tomb elements aren’t so much explained through handwavy science as they are derived from well-documented real historical events or figures, much like magical realism is heavily grounded in reality despite slightly deviating from it in believable ways. dmbj is deeply informed by chinese culture and history, more so than just using it as the backdrop to a fantasy adventure story: they’re integral parts of the plot, which i think is part of what makes dmbj so difficult to navigate without extensive knowledge of that backdrop (which i by the way don’t pretend to have either, my own knowledge is very much surface level all things considered)

in light of this, as far as the queen mother of the west goes, considering the relatively reliable outside account of a hostile invasion we get from the ruins of tamutuo itself, and then li cu’s own take on king mu’s and the queen mother’s relationship, while the romance spin isn’t necessarily entirely false, it does leave a lot of question marks as to what exactly king mu saw in the queen of the west’s kingdom. that he was given the gift of longevity is highly likely given he’s still alive centuries later, along with other key elements of the wang family’s story i’ll get to in a bit. however, the uncertainty in the nature of their relationship does potentially make the queen of the west’s motivations for offering king mu longevity if not just as uncertain, then potentially a little more sinister, since while she might have offered out of love, if we assume all her experimentations weren’t geared at gaining immortality for herself, but rather curbing the side effects of it, then her gift was very much a poisoned one as she knew full well what would happen to him if he used it. for all we know, king mu might have, on defeating the queen mother’s kingdom, inflicted the “truth of the world” and the curse of longevity on himself, and none of it was never a gift at all, but the consequences of his own actions. but all of this is just speculation in the end as there’s no solid evidence pointing in any one direction. in any case, the only potential insight we get into the queen mother of the west’s thoughts come from maybe the vaguest source yet, a poem she supposedly composed for king mu that she gifted him when they parted, and that merebear translates as follows:

White clouds in the sky, the hills emerge. The road is far away, between mountains and rivers. The child who is not dead, can still come back.

knowing how many layers of meaning can be crammed into classical chinese poetry, i had to go find the original text and investigate further, so let me also provide that:

白云在天，山陵自出。道里悠远，山川间之。将子无死，尚能复来。

full disclaimer before i continue, poetry and its nuances are notoriously difficult to translate in any language, and i’m not at all claiming to be proficient enough at the chinese language without outside resources to help me to ever claim to be an expert, but while merebear’s translation isn’t technically incorrect, it has a few possible double meanings missing and some word choices i’m not quite sure i understand, but this is only my own humble contribution (with some creative license in the english rendition) that anyone with better knowledge than mine is welcome to correct or add on to as this isn’t so much an attempt at retranslating as it is pointing out a few possible added implications:

白云在天，山陵自出。

the white clouds are in the sky/the heavens, the lofty mountains/the great tombs emerge of their own accord. 山陵 can also be used, and has been in chinese literature, to refer to tombs of people of significant importance as usually big tombs tend to form burial mounds, hence why it can also refer to ‘hills’

道里悠远，山川间之。

the way forth is distant, it winds amid the mountains and rivers ‘mountains and rivers’, mountains especially, are commonly associated with the chinese concept of immortals called 仙 xian that even has the radical for mountain in it, in part due to their reclusive nature. i would link the interesting study i have on that but it’s unfortunately not in english, though feel free to ask for it anyway if anyone is interested

将子无死，尚能复来。

one who leads does not die, he may yet return 将子 in this context technically means ‘general’ and 将 can even refer to the chief piece in chinese chess which you know. keeping that in my book of crazy convenient zhang parallels re: the qipan zhang

make of this what you will, but if nothing else, it does suggest a bit more explicitly that the double meanings are indeed referring to immortality and potentially tombs, though what nature of tomb is the real question in that case

we then go on to learn from the wang powerpoint presentation that king mu never returned to visit the queen of the west once he returned home, but that contrary to how things may seem, despite having being recorded as having died at the age of 105, king mu in fact did not died, meaning at some point after he’d taken the queen of the west’s immortality elixir, he faked his own death and disappeared somewhere. both the wang instructor and wang xiaoyuan (the girl who peeks at li cu out the window) confirm that according to the third and final account of king shang of lu’s story, king mu wasn’t dead at the time of those events, as he worked together with king shang and iron mask to find the jade burial armor (Sand Sea Part III, Ch. 134, Deception)

this means he was spectacularly old by this point considering the warring states period starts at earliest in 476 BC. and king mu supposedly died around 918 BC. you do the math, but he was very very old. and to be honest this also somewhat feeds into the idea that the longevity curse (because it very much is a curse) used to last much longer before the side effects started to pop up, because if we’re to believe the wang family’s version of these events, then king mu was clearly still sane and not (or at least not entirely) a monster if he was still actively enacting the things he had planned

and so king mu, now long-lived because he took whatever immortality elixir the queen mother of the west gave him, had to face the consequences of that choice, yet rather than seek her out to find a way to quell the side effects of longevity (which he could have done and would have just ended up in the meteorite with her, although if he didn’t go to her, it gives a bit more weight to the idea that their story wasn’t necessarily a romance and/or that ulterior motives were involved), he went his own way to find something to save himself from turning into a monster, and eventually settled on finding a jade burial armor, which according to the wang family also came from the queen mother of the west’s kingdom. besides implying it’s likely that the jade armor is in fact made from the meteorite jade, it’s just one more thing to add to the long list of things tied to the heart of dmbj’s lore that end up having some form of association with the queen mother of the west. fun tidbit regarding this that’s not entirely relevant to anything (but it just adds more fuel to the crack theory), there’s an inscription on the belt of the green-eyed fox corpse where the qilin blood clot that wu xie accidentally swallows in book 1, and that merebear translates as “ruler of yinxi”, that reads as follows (Book 1, Ch. 21, Green-Eyed Fox Corpse):

阴西宝帝 or yinxi baodi

once again, take this with a grain of salt because this is an inscription that wu xie sees while he’s presumably under the influence of the green-eyed fox’s illusion, and instantly recognizes it as “a spell to ward off evil spirits”, so it might not mean anything, but if you had to find some kind of sense in it, while the characters together don’t really mean much of anything, separately they can mean:

阴 yin

opposite of 阳 yang, one of the two opposing energies in taoism and representative of many things, but namely of the feminine

西 xi

the west as cardinal direction

宝 bao

treasure, precious

帝 di

supreme being, often used in the titles and names of emperors such as huangdi (the yellow emperor) or qin shi huangdi (the first emperor of china). fun fact, wu xie during sand sea is often referred to as 邪帝 or emperor xie by the chinese fanbase in reference to how powerful he was during that time

i’m not saying this is meant to translate into a reference to the queen mother of the west because the association of characters is a bit strange, but again. food for thought (and a lot of creative license)

the wang powerpoint then goes on to explain that king mu’s objective, once he’d secured the jade armor, was to ensure both that he would be able to come back to the world fully rid of the side effects of immortality, and be able to do so safely, secure in the knowledge that the legacy of his findings would remain intact for him to find again. and so to do that, he essentially makes certain that chinese tradition incorporates the necessity of entombing people with a number of valuable things, and supposedly instigates this during the spring and autumn period (which is the period that precedes the warring states period and is generally considered to be one of extensive intellectual prosperity, confucius was a contemporary of that time for example) by, as the wang instructor implies, at least partially pushing to prominence things like the classic of rites (or lijing) that among other things promotes rich burials. while li cu calls into question the idea that king mu’s plan solely aimed at disseminating information for the sake of keeping his own acquired knowledge in circulation, since king mu’s further objective was also to use grave robbing to spread whatever information best served concealing “the truth of the world”, it’s clear that his plan was meticulously thought-out

the wang instructor himself admits this, though he quickly adds that king mu’s plan, crafty as it was if desperate, failed to take into account the possibility that he’d one day meet his match in the person of wang zanghai, who essentially hijacked his plan for his own purposes. i feel this seems to imply that things were going pretty smoothly for king mu of zhou until then, which would then call into question the first two versions of king shang of lu’s story if we assume king mu was the original wearer of the jade armor, albeit more recently than those stories presented it, but this is also where i start veering into big wild assumptions and crack theory territory. i won’t be get into the box with the baby or the particulars of the feud between the zhang family and wang zanghai/the wang family because while it’s tied to this, it also branches off into something else that’s probably a whole other meta and this is long enough as it is

it’s also worth noting that king mu of zhou, as well as instigating his masterplan, not only hid an elaborate map leading to the queen mother of the west’s kingdom only perceivable if you soak the stone slab it’s on “with a certain liquid” (which if you remember what happens in both book 8 in siguniang when wu xie and xiao hua gut a pig, and in tibetan sea flower where it’s wu xie who bleeds his special blood to reveal the secrets inside the bronze gate in tibet, gives you a hint at what the nature of that liquid might be), but wrote the details of his plan down on what’s called the yellow lu silkbook, not to be confused with the silkbook that wu xie pulls from “king shang of lu”’s coffin in book 1. merebear speculates it might be the silkbook that the photocopy jin wantang brings to him to kickstart the entire plot belongs to, and in my opinion that’s a good guess. it might also be one of the many silkbooks the lao jiumen pulled out of siguniang during the greatest joint tomb robbery in the 1960s. who knows really

all i can say about this particular part of the wang’s powerpoint lesson and the connection it shares with the multiple versions of the story of king shang of lu is that assuming the wang family’s version is both the most complete and the most accurate, then “king shang of lu” has a direct connection not only to king mu of zhou, but to the entirety of dmbj’s overarching plot. and while knowing who’s who at the end of the day doesn’t amount to much when much of dmbj’s story deals with the present day cast bearing the brunt of the consequences of their elders’ and older generations’ choices, i want to go further and say that this story potentially further cements connections and solidifies dmbj lore rather than complicate it

(wild conclusions tbc in part III of this madness)

#dmbj #meta #dmbj meta #dmbj novels #at least part one had some kind of order to it #this one just devolved into chaos #and more unhinged crack theory #and it's only going to get worse from here #i genuinely wonder if any of this makes sense but it somehow does in my head #somehow #the assumptions are bold #very bold

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digitalgate02 · 1 year

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Y’know, one of the things this fandom seemed to be divided into two parts is about Frontier and Takuya’s “Dark Evolution” in the story. Some pointed it was “Vritramon rampaging phase” in the story, and some would consider “Takuya reverting into Flamon” as the dark evolution of this series.

First, what are the characteristics of Dark Evolution, according to the older three series + Savers? Mixing strong negative emotions and forcing your digimon to evolve. All cases of Dark Evolution before and after Frontier were like this. (I know, the OG Taichi was mostly by being a reckless idiot, but i like to think the novel version explained something a little more about this event)

Character has strong negative feelings and then forces their or someone else’s digimon to dark evolve into a mindless beast. – That’s how things worked in Adv’99, 02, Tamers and Savers.

(you may notice that instead of Daisuke dark evolving his partner, it’s Ken who forces a dark evolution on Taichi’s partner. Which implies yeah anyone could do that. Funny enough, Ken also fits the criteria established in those series: He is a self-absorbed and arrogant kid, so those emotions are mixed in the mix and this is why he evolves Agumon into SkullGreymon first. He only manages to get MetalGreymon virus after he cheats with his Evil/Dark Spiral. Meanwhile Daisuke lacks malice, lacks negative feelings. So he’s just a dumbass in ep 22 getting into trouble in the process.)

However, Ghost Game brought a new view of this concept by introducing GulusGammamon. As you can see, Gulus is a dark evolution (somehow) and it differs from every mindless-beast-on-rampage case we watched until now. But before going into GG take on it, I’d like to talk about the peculiar case in Adventure’s reboot series (aka Psi, or Adv:2020) first:

So, one of the things we saw in the episode from the reboot is that Taichi was getting consumed by the dark miasma around the place. We never had something like this before as well – this series was trying to “corrupt” Taichi too. The last time we saw a “tamer” corruption was on a Drama CD which was more a very weird and for fun story (this was done before the Drama CDs for digimon started to get serious stories) than something to take seriously. Anyway, the reboot was trying to corrupt Taichi first. Second is… Taichi dies for a moment which triggers Agumon’s dark evolution based on Agumon’s strong feelings (and the dark miasma, probably). This is going to be reused in Ghost Game, actually.

Now, back to Ghost Game!! Fun facts for you: Gulus is the only Gamma-form to not have a ring on his wrist/paw. Also, Gulus does not need Hiro to evolve either! But it was triggered by Gammamon’s strong feelings at first – when Bokomon died in front of him. Other cases were probably for survival in a life-or-death scenario for him or any of the trio. Gulus’ has another speech pattern from the other Gammamon forms, and the most important detail is he’s totally sentient. Gulus is more like another personality to Gammamon than being a feral beast in rampage.

But what can Ghost Game help us to decide which “dark evolution” scenario counts for Takuya/Frontier?

First of all, if we ignore Takuya for a moment, Frontier already has a “dark evolution” character – Kimura Kouichi. Duskmon and Velgmon are evil forms, and they’re purified into Loweemon and KaiserLeomon later. And heck, Kouichi himself is the “Warrior of Darkness” c’mon guys!!

BUT, Kouichi’s role is most suitable for the “redeemed villain” category. So yeah, which of Takuya’s cases suit the dark evolution criteria?

I’d like to reveal that, maybe, Frontier was ahead of its time. Because now that we got Ghost Game to break the norm and show us a new approach from this concept, it can help us here to notice Flamon was sort of a dark evolution for Takuya.

Frontier already makes clear that the Beast spirit forms cannot be controlled that easily, and I’ll shamelessly plug Shiha’s meta about everyone’s cases here in case we start the discussion about Izumi again.

So if we consider Vritramon the “dark evolution case”, you could say most of the kids in Frontier had it too. Which is odd, right?

But, if you consider Flamon an unusual dark evolution case, one like Gulus is now, it makes some sense. Dark evolution in the Digimon franchise is sort of “punishment” for not raising your digimon correctly – It’s a challenge, and you have to beat this obstacle to gain the new power/form to proceed. Dark evolution does not always mean “evil form” as well, just, as Gennai puts it in the end of Adventure, “a form not suitable for certain occasions” – So this concludes my thesis that Frontier started the unusual dark evolution forms instead.

Thank y’all for reading~

#digifood for thought #i don't own a tag for meta posts hahahaha okay sorry #digimon frontier #kanbara takuya

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theravenmuse · 9 months

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S1E1 meta post 2 - the second half of the opening scene

Aziraphale is the reason for (at least some of) Crowley’s pesky questions

Crowley is gushing about his nebula, explaining what it does and how amazing it will be. Creating stars. (Just like he does.)

Possibly mirroring the drunk scene from S1E1, Crowley explains, with elaborate arm movements: “Boom! Stars everywhere!”

Aziraphale starts to look uncomfortable here and breaks the news that it’s all going to end in 6000 years and Crowley isn’t going to get the millions it needs to do its work. Here, Crowley’s joy, which has been so vibrant, falls to not only disappointment, but also to confusion and doubt. “But that’s nothing!” he says. The pain in his voice is heartbreaking. “Oooh. What's the point in creating an infinite universe with trillions of star systems if you’re only gonna let it run for a few thousand years? The engine won’t have properly warmed up by then.”

Aziraphale, relieved to have an answer but also, I think, doubting that it’s the right one, explains about Earth and the people and how all of creation is for them. Crowley remains unconvinced. “But that’s idiocy! It’s the universe, it’s not just some fancy wallpaper! Millions of galaxies, trillions of stars, oodles of… everything! It’s not just put here to twinkle!”

Crowley also makes another very good point that I think could use a meta post of its own, but that’s for later after quite a bit of theorizing. “Most of it won’t even be visible from Earth. Why don’t you put Earth in the middle of the universe so the view’s better?” For this post, I’ll just say that he’s absolutely right, and I suspect that the reason for that is because it isn’t actually all meant to end in 6000 years and it isn’t just for the people of Earth.

Now Aziraphale is getting truly uncomfortable. “It’s not our job to advise The Almighty on the details of creation.” He means it as a gentle dissuasion. Crowley is not dissuaded. He fires back with, “Well then whose job is it? I mean, someone has to say, “Look boss, this is a really, really terrible idea.””

Now Aziraphale is getting even more upset. He calls Crowley’s suggestion inappropriate. Crowley is still not dissuaded and suggests further that The Almighty should consider a suggestion box. Aziraphale is very, very upset. His upset, I think, is not actually that Crowley would suggest these things, but that he (Aziraphale) cannot logically find fault with them, putting himself at odds with what he’s been told is right and his own rationalizations. In his very, very upset voice, Aziraphale continues: “I don’t believe The Almighty has actually created a suggestion box. And furthermore, I don’t think it’s our place to start suggesting that there should be a suggestion box.”

Here, Crowley takes it the whole mile. “Well, y’know, if I was the one running it all, I’d like it if someone asked questions,” he says. He says a few other things, but I don’t think Aziraphale is listening past this. He’s even looking over both shoulders as if to check that nobody else is around to hear this. In a desperate bid to hold on to his sanity, Aziraphale points out the nebula again. He doesn’t actually care about the nebula. Well, he does, but not in this moment. Luckily, it works. Crowley goes back to smiling, though it isn’t the broad, unrestrained joyful smile from before and doesn’t ask anymore of those difficult questions.

Still shaken, but on somewhat firmer ground now that Crowley’s onslaught of suggestions has stopped, Aziraphale adds: “Um, but look, word to the wise, I’d hate to see you getting into any trouble.” Crowley tells Aziraphale not to worry. “How much trouble can I get into just for asking a few questions?” Oh poor innocent angel.

Then there’s the meteor shower. Crowley covers Aziraphale with his wing, mirroring the scene in Eden from season 1. Note that Crowley is still on the left throughout this scene despite the fact that he’s not a demon yet.

#good omens season 2 #good omens #aziraphale #crowley #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #good omens meta #the raven's musings

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nadekofannumber1 · 9 months

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Nadeko only likes retro games but retro is a constantly shifting status that encompasses more games with time under the label as technology changes, one’s perception of what counts as retro can be partially locked to what year you were born, the PS2 and n64 is something some people would easily consider retro but others believe it’s only anything backwards from the famicon, many could firmly believe that the Atari era is where the retro limit ends.

The year monogatari takes place is non specific because it’s technically should be 2006-2007 but it’s always written as if it takes place in the current year, technically turning several monogatari characters into zoomers but not always shifting a characters traits sense, by getting sent into the future kanbaru becomes more technologically illiterate.

Other characters in a sense don’t need to make that change like araragi who’s always been a loner who kept away from all social including media. Hitagi adapts easily like she’s always done this connecting easily. Higasa entering her Twitter era doesn’t cause any issues as she became more prominent in later arcs instead of earlier arcs. Final example being Sodachi, who was introduced in an even later arc than Higasa but isn’t good with technology due to her past and present.

All these examples show that how a character adapts is partially dependent on how it fits into existing character details but will change if it fits the narrative. Nadeko clearly likes famicon era games but with the shifting era would Nisio consider it to be retro enough to superimpose it on to their character? I’d think he’d at least vauge about it (as he’s known to do), like:

————————————

Its interesting to set up my consoles in my new apartment, I couldn’t bring much but I wanted at least a few to play.

I thought this TV might be too new for a console this old but really all I needed was an adapter and all was well.

Ononoki chan showing up at my door with the cord was weirdly convenient. Maybe I mentioned it earlier.

Yotsugi leans over my shoulder to look at “Bats and Terry” (1987) for the Famicon.

Laying her head into the crook of my neck like a cat she says,

“It has less shapes than I remember.”

“Ah, that must be because it’s not on a CRT tv.”

Those really were more ideal.

“The box oneesan played it on was different I tell ya.”

“Hmm,

If not CRT or LCD then what?”

“It’s nothin complicated Nade-chan, I just watched tha’ show on an ipad.”

Ah, what a critical failure of assessment.

“Well I guess this one is too niche for a remake, I’m not really a modern gamer so it works out fine.”

“No this game is definitely modern.”

“Huh?”

“There’s nothing more topical and modern than this, ‘tennis for two is innovative even now’.”

“Those games are even beyond retro they’re over 50 years old!”

“But they’re derivative, nothing is more retro than the old ball and stick.”

“You mean the ball and sword?”

“Perhaps but jitsu tsuki ball came first.”

“Ah, are you perhaps thinking about RaRa Chan? I getsu.”

“Oh dear, you art right, I derived too much, I may even go back to the tree. Perhaps more is retro than I thought, good thinking Nadeko Chan.”

She nodded sagely, snugging closer she said.

“Finding what makes something retro is an arduous task ain’t it.”

She’s really sliding around accents for this bit,

“I suppose that it would depend on what you were born wouldn’t it?”

“What year were you even born?”

“Hmm, I didn’t give it in otori right? I suppose it’s-“

“Bzzzt!” She states, making an X over my face with her arms.

I hear myself die in game, I’m entirely bewildered.

“What was!-“

“You can’t state the year the story won’t make sense otherwise.”

This kind of meta break didn’t require me dying…

“Deepest apologies Nade-San… I’m sorry for this character break, I’ll do anything for forgiveness.”

….

I don’t have much to say to that since she just does that anyway.

…

It’s rather shameless.

“Well if the year is 20XX shouldn’t I be born in uhh…”

Wait this might not make sense,

no I thought it was 19XX, but!

“You’re better than 19XX, not that IQ means anything.”

What does that even mean, is that an English pun?

Batsubatsu is more a sound at that point isn’t it?

“It’s the reiwa era so shouldn’t I be born in 20XX and it be 20XX at this point?”

“Terrybatsu is an interesting way to look at it.”

That was terribaltsu,

“Similarly shouldn’t 100 be closer than 20?”

“I suppose but we aren’t really grilling with it.”

Let’s put that aside

“Teori might be closer than toori to terry.”

I was never good at language

“I wouldnt want to refer to that chicken when even even thinking about about batsuterry, I’d rather grill him.”

“Tari for Tori?”

“I’d gatekeep him that hard, yes.”

This is decoying the point by now,

“It’s a neo era not a retro era, so maybe it’s time to consider consoles others grew up with as retro by this point.”

Hmm, really I’d say that:

“Fantasizing about the past is hard, huh. It’s strange to look at the past in a way.”

“The 1980s don’t exist anymore, not even for batsu. I guess it’s came closer to yasu than batsu, baseball goes beyond batsu even.”

But for batsu and terry shouldn’t it be baseball and not banana?

“It’s bananas I tell ya!”

…..

I suppose this is the punchline in a way.

Or maybe the opposite of one, a batsu-d batsu.

————————————

I wanted to be semi authentic with this so I tried to add puns that don’t translate, puns that do, and an extended bit about concepts of translations that don’t fully work

I’m writing this before I actually finish writing down everything so let’s see how much ends up applying

I use an amount of gorowase because I thought it might work

026 (rei-to-ro) retro

20(ni-o) neo

82(ba-tsu)

89(ya-kyu) word for baseball

83(ya-su) word for useless

87(ba-nana) banana

84(ya-shi) palm tree

And for my “gorowase that don’t actually work or don’t think work”:

19(i-kyu) a joke about IQ ( the pronunciation of I isn’t “eye” but “e” like “ichi”)

20(too-rei) a bad pronounciation of terry for a bit that doesn’t entirely work but also toori is a Japanese word that as toori ni roughly refers to “in a similar way”

100(ta-rei) also a joke on the pronunciation tare is also a general term for sauces that go with grilled food

Yakyu is a Japanese word for baseball

Jitsu getsu ball: is one of the earliest versions of bilboquet (ball and small tree) and translates to sun and moon ball roughly and I think that just puns nicely to the alt reading, getsu also sounds like get you

Otori means decoy

CRT: is used as shorthand for critical in table top games and their spiritual successors rpgs

A CRT tv is an old style of television that has a lot of interesting differences from the modern lcd screen but for the sake of the bit at the beginning, what nadeko was referring to was the better definition of older games, if you see how retro games looked on CRT tvs vs how they look on modern LCD screens there’s a good amount of difference, many swore old video games looked better in their childhood and there’s actually a decent chance they did since these games were built for that specific TV, if anything I highly recommend looking at comparisons and seeing just how different many looked, while old games were pixelated it’s important to consider why sprites look like that and it makes some parts of the aesthetic make more sense, the lcd versions of retro experience is kind of dishonest in a sense as the tv would literally smooth out edges and preform effects that don’t translate well, while crt shaders do exist many times it’s not totally accurate as it’s an emulation of the base function of a television that worked entirely differently so its something to consider. Anyway nadeko is a retro otaku and would totally have this information

Outside of that I ran with the reading of “X” being batsu, which can Be thought of as the word bats (in either sense), batsu as incorrect or penalty, as epilogue/postscript, batusbun being afterword, clique, or even circumstance.

Bats and terry: classic shonen baseball manga with an old game, works for the bit about bl astonishingly well it’s anime and game came out in 1987 so it’s in nadeko’s gamer range, plus I can run my bit about Kendama with my ball and stick bit

I don’t mention teo the magic planet fin fin solely for the bit bc Im really into the history of pet games and knowing more about pet games but nadeko would probably not, the genre was started by the night trap guy with the technology that would be used to make the funny streamer game facade (which he also made), dogz (1995) game of all time, if tamagotchi is retro so is this because it literally predates it, but nadeko isn’t a pet games person probably. This was a considered pun and I’m leaving in the blurb bc it’s my post

Teori (tadatsuru) is mentioned for the bit on names to pluck and to caress and holds a casually meaningless phonetic resemblance to terry

#monogatari analysis #sengoku nadeko #monogatari series #monogatari ramble #nadeposting #fanfiction

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intercoursefluids · 8 months

Text

Well That Happened Chapter 6

Diana led them to a separate room and had them all take a seat before handing out a questionnaire.

“These are how we choose what squadron you are first placed in; they also help choose what exactly you will be doing in your squad. It helps things move along more quickly.” Diana gestured for them to begin.

The room was silent, there was only Damian, his family, and Diana in the room, though they could still see people walking around through the window.

They all quickly finished their questionnaires, handing them over to Diana for their placements.

It didn’t take her long to decide.

“Bruce, you will be with me, a fellow dragon. Dick, you are a rabbit, I’ll assign a conductor to help you figure out what you will be doing. Jason, you are, unsurprisingly, a turtle. A knight to be specific, I’ll see where I can put you. Tim, you’re a fox, you are free to choose between an informant and an overseer.” It felt like she was giving a debrief in the cave, it was almost startling how familiar it was.

“Stephanie, you will be working with the Ladybugs as a healer. Cassandra, you are a bee, you’re free to pick between a caretaker or an agent. Duke, you will be working as a soothsayer, I have a feeling your particular talents will be helpful there. Damian, you will be working as a mouse scout. Basically, you are free to do as you see fit, though I do encourage you to find a fellow mouse o work alongside.” As Diana finished giving them their assignments, she pulled out a few papers from her folder, handing them to each of them.

The papers were basically the details of what they would be doing. Father would be a teacher/caretaker, helping out with the people based on where he was needed. Dick would be running around, making sure everyone was communicating with everyone else, so the plans went smoothly.

Jason would be out on the field, helping people get away from the danger and protecting them. Tim had an option, the same as Cass. He could stay in the hut, gathering information away from the fighting, or he could go in, staying just out of sight but collecting data that could be analyzed later.

Cass could choose to stay and help around the huts and shellters as a caretaker, same as father, or she could go out and try to hunt down the villain. Steph would be moved to wherever the most injured were, her EMT training coming in handy.

Duke would be working with the snakes, where he would be placed had yet to be decided but his gifts as a meta would certainly help him, being able to catch glances of the future would make him perfect for his role.

Everyone’s assignment made perfect sense, it followed with their talents and abilities. Everyone was a great match.

Damian had to hope his matched as well as everyone else’s.

He wasn’t even sure what he was supposed to do, Diana hadn’t been much help, neither had the paper explaining what he would do.

They were both frustratingly vague on what ‘Scouts’ do. Everyone else had clear instructions and he had been left with a simple, do what you think is needed.

How could he possibly know what was needed here? This was an entirely new beast with a perfectly organized counter measure in place. What if he made the wrong call?

Damian sighed, calming his mind. There was no time for him to lose it here, he would just have to hope for the best.

Diana led them back out the door and down a different hallway. They entered a gymnasium, filled with all kinds of equipment.

They were all fitted with gear, none of it was professional gear, only what could be pulled together on short notice. They all had one thing in common though, a colour scheme.

In order to get gear, you had to tell the people handing it out what squadron you were with, they would hand you clothes matching a certain theme.

It was supposed to help people differentiate who to go to for what, it also helped identify what job each person had.

Dragons wore red black and gold, Rabbits were in white and blue, turtles were, naturally green, and a few browns as well, mostly just earthen tones.

Foxes wore orange, all different shades of it. Ladybugs were red, a few items with black polka dots were thrown in as well, which made Steph laugh.

The bees wore yellow and black, stripes were optional, snakes wore teal and yellow, which was surprisingly not that bad a combination.

And mice wore, sigh, Damian was dressed in grey and pink. At least he wasn’t in a bright, neon colours, though he wished he could have at least some dark colour. The pastel colours were a complete 180 from how he usually dressed.

After they were dressed, they were given various items, which again, seemed scrounged together.

The items were more identifiers, pendants and bracelets and bandanas, really just anything they could get their hands on, that had a specific animal on them.

Damian received a necklace with a mouse on the pendant. Jason had a TMNT headband, and he was far too happy about it.

After they had received all of their gear, comms included, Diana led them back to Pegasus.

“We have returned, little horse. I was hoping to find some partners for them before sending them out, to help them get the hang of things. Do you know if anyone is available.” Diana questioned, looking at the projection that was still following the Princess.

She was yelling at a giant wolf, calling it a bad dog for trying to bite her. It looked sad. Damian felt sorry for it.

Damian’s attention was brought back to the conversation after getting nudged by Cass.

“I apologize, what did you say?” Damian questioned, turning his attention to Pegasus.

“I asked if you throw yourself into danger often.” Pegasus was staring into his soul, demanding an answer.

“No?” Damian was confused.

“Do you let the people around you recklessly throw themselves into danger? Do you encourage it?” Pegasus was standing up now, he was shorter than Damian, which surprised him.

“No, I don’t. Why are you asking?” Damian wanted some answers to this seemingly random questioning.

He didn’t get answers.

“Perfect, you are being paired with Princess. She needs someone to try and keep her out of too much trouble, or at least someone who can help her get back out of it. She hasn’t worked with you yet so she can’t say you two don’t work well together, or at least she can’t say that yet.” Pegasus brushed past him, it seemed that everyone else had already been paired up but he had no idea who was with who.

Pegasus opened a portal, turning towards the group.

“Comms stay on at all times, if you need help, call for help. Don’t let your pride get in the way, we have bigger problems and don’t need anyone adding onto the pile. The comms are all connected to the network, if you need to talk to someone just say it, someone will patch you through.” He nodded his head towards the portal.

“In you go.” They didn’t waste any more time, those going onto the field rushed through, finding themselves out on a battlefield.

Ruins were everywhere, and it was quiet.

Unsettlingly quiet.

From inside the hut, it had been nonstop noise, people shouting to other people, doors slamming, chairs scraping against the floor. It had been busy.

The silence was deafening.

Damian’s family nodded to each other before running off in different directions, leaving Damian standing there alone.

It seemed that everyone else already knew where they were going.

He really should have paid attention when Pegasus had been speaking. All he knew was that he was supposed to be with the Princess.

A boulder flew past him, crashing into a nearby building, Damian looked towards where it had come from.

Lo’ an behold, there she was. Sprinting across the rooftops as a giant threw boulders at her.

Damian heaved a sigh before running for a building, scaling up the side of it quickly, trying to catch up to her before she left him behind.

Damian she past him just as he made it up, he groaned, taking off after her.

There was no reason to be as fast as she was.

A boulder crashed next to him, far too close for comfort.

Scratch that, she had plenty reason to be fast.

He started running faster.

Early update since I won't have access to my computer tomorrow

Tag List:

@Dontbenddontbreak

@Its-maemain

@Toodaloo-kangaroo

@Doll246

@Jennifer-rose123

@Razzledazzle247

@Cydaeashootingstar

@Madhatter-crazyasahatter-blog

@miyatalksshit

@Vroomtaka

@animegirlweeb

@rosesandsailboats

@depressed-bitchy-demon

#maribat #ml x dc #dc x mlb #mlb x dc #marinette x damian #maridami

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esther-dot · 2 years

Note

How do you think j0nry@ stans got the idea that j0nry@ would end up canon? I cant seem to rap my head around the concept because at least jonrice has some “stuff” to point to their ship but j0nry@ has very little stuff that makes any sense besides the theories from self insert ar/ya stans

I’ll tell you about what I’ve seen, but I think you’ll regret asking 😂

For starters, they have the original outline. I know we all laugh because the story has changed so much, but I actually have some sympathy for this because I think the fact that Martin apparently always intended for Bran to end up king is really interesting. Obviously the context/meaning of it changed, but I’m not sure why fans act like the details being different means there isn’t anything to be gleaned from the outline. Also, I do think it matters that Martin liked the idea of a Jon x Stark girl romance because a) it means everyone arguing he’d never consider Jon/“sister” pairing can be ignored. The idea was very much in his head at one point! b) it means he thought fauxcest was commercially viable. Anyway, at one point he did say Jon would have a romance with Arya.

From the most reasonable to the most disturbing reason…swords are common phallic imagery. Can I stop there? No? Jon gives Arya a sword in AGOT. Jonry@s have metas about how that means they will eventually have sex.

Actually, maybe this is more disturbing. The argument that they will fall in love is supported with quotes about their existing love, as in, they think their sibling bond is foreshadowing for romantic love. That’s why they harp on how rarely Jon and Sansa think of each other and talk about how Jon doesn’t love Sansa—because the absence of the sibling love (in their minds) sinks romantic Jonsa which is funny because that’s what a lot of us look at and think is what would make it possible. Anyway, that means that a common thing to do is to think of this moment--

Arya ran to him for a last hug. "Put down the sword first," Jon warned her, laughing. She set it aside almost shyly and showered him with kisses. (AGOT, Jon II)

--as a shipping moment. They use it in their metas/shippy fanart.

The other thing I’ve seen them point to are the comparisons of Ygritte to Arya:

Ygritte watched and said nothing. She was older than he'd thought at first, Jon realized; maybe as old as twenty, but short for her age, bandy-legged, with a round face, small hands, and a pug nose. Her shaggy mop of red hair stuck out in all directions. She looked plump as she crouched there, but most of that was layers of fur and wool and leather. Underneath all that she could be as skinny as Arya. (ACOK, Jon VI)

and

Ygritte trotted beside Jon as he slowed his garron to a walk. She claimed to be three years older than him, though she stood half a foot shorter; however old she might be, the girl was a tough little thing. Stonesnake had called her a "spearwife" when they'd captured her in the Skirling Pass. She wasn't wed and her weapon of choice was a short curved bow of horn and weirwood, but "spearwife" fit her all the same. She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore. (ASOS, Jon II)

Look, you asked, and I did warn you. They take those passages and say, (I’ve seen this multiple times by different Jonry@s), “Why are you thinking about Arya naked, Jon?” You brought this on yourself anon. You have to live with that.

So, to them there is the author’s intent in the original outline followed by a promise in the first book of the two later having a romantic relationship, the “erotic subtext” continued with the comparisons to Ygritte which all culminates with this:

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back …(ADWD, Jon XIII)

To them, Jon is talking about Arya being his bride. A lot of these fans think Arya will be QitN, so it’s possible they have a theory about Jon marrying her to unite his claim with a Stark post parentage reveal, just as Jonsas argue? I really don’t know because they tend to hate Sansa so I’ve blocked a lot of them. But, that's the proof/argument I saw before I filtered the tag.

I responded to an ask from a Jonry@ once here, and explained why I didn’t think it was happening.

#anti jonrya #ask dot #< tag to filter

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pinewoodpipit · 1 year

Text

bloodwritten silver fic - Chapter 1 Meta

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Other meta posts for this AU

Mid-fic meta (posted after chapter 5's release)

Fic end meta

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General thoughts and early fic notes

I’ve really liked the concept for this fic from the start. It’s one of the earliest AUs I came up with and actually started as two different fic ideas; one which was just about why Fade loves her shorty so much, and another one about a werewolf AU. It also originally started as a much closer AU to canon; as in the same storyline and world as the canon Protocol, but with Fade being a werewolf. In this version of the story, Neon heard a ruckus in Fade’s room and discovered her transformed into her wolf form, having lost control due to sleep deprivation. I eventually found that changing the world to something a bit more fitting to the theme to alter it to an almost Soulsborne or RE8 kind of fantasy world made it MUCH stronger. It’s kind of mid-modern; modern enough for people to have guns, but kind of medieval in tone and general… practices regarding monsters.

This fic centres around Fadeshock, but a large part of the plot will also revolve around Reyge. I won’t go into detail on this, you’ll see soon enough!

To clarify the difference between monsters and Radiants - Radiants are humans or humanoids with magical abilities, and monsters are inhuman creatures. Werewolves fall into an uncomfortable halfway point, and so most call them both interchangeably. Reyna heads a monster hunter guild which Neon works for, and Neon wasn’t comfortable killing Fade as she sees werewolves as more human than beast. It’s the difference between killing a wolf and a person who can turn into a wolf. She has no trouble killing a dragon which has begun to raid villages and hunt people, or a basilisk which is killing livestock, but she won’t kill a werewolf who’s only apparent crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. She also knows, though, that Reyna is a lot stricter on this topic than she is, and so she lied to cover her ass. She is also aware that the lines can blur and quickly become dangerous for her, even though she’s a Radiant herself, so she keeps herself hidden. It’s steady, stable work which she’s good at and pays well, but it is also dangerous and she’s very aware of that.

Silver perpetually injures monsters in this fic. If a monster is shot with a silver bullet the wound won’t clot and they’ll bleed out without treatment. The trap around Fade’s arm was silver and so it’s perpetually eating into her, especially since it was barbed and some of the barbs couldn’t be removed while Neon was cutting her loose. Silver is aggravating for monsters to touch, too - it burns them. This will be an important note later in this fic.

There is a reason Sage uses her code name while Neon, Fade, and Reyna all don’t! You’ll see why later on.

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Playlist

Again I’ll just share the song titles which are on my playlist, since I don’t know how to share a playlist while making the creator anonymous for my own privacy.

Devil’s Backbone - The Civil Wars (this is the primary theme song and I thought about making the title a lyric from it, but I wanted to stick to an original one for this fic, with this one taking one of the chapter titles instead)

Drops in the Lake - Lord Huron (another primary theme of this fic which took the final chapter’s title)

Just a Man - Jorge Rivera-Herrans, EPIC Ensemble

Karanlığın - VALORANT, Helin, ARB4

GET MINE - Holy Wars

Exhumed - Zola Jesus

Misery - Lucille Croft, BRVMES, TINYKVT

Carrion Flowers - Chelsea Wolfe

Electric Gold - Marion Aunor, Moophs

Wolf Like Me ft. Shovels & Rope - Lera Lynn, Shovels & Rope

Blood On My Name - The Brothers Bright

Cupid - Twin Ver. - FIFTY FIFTY

Stolas Sings - Caleb Hyles

VISIONS - VALORANT, eaJ, Safari Riot

Gravedigger - MXMS

Homeostasis - Nostalghia

You Can’t Judge a Book by the Cover - Ruby Ibarra

INFERNO - Sub Urban, Bella Poarch

REBEL TIME - MOONGA K., Sampa the Great

Boyfriend - Dove Cameron

Many of these were taken from the characters’ official playlists, curated by Riot themselves. I felt they were fitting for this AU especially; particularly Fade’s, as Neon is less… angsty in general. Some happier songs are on here too, though, as even though this fic has a darker tone, it’s still got some rom-com elements in there.

#pipit writes #bloodwritten silver #fanfic #fic meta #werewolf au #fadeshock #own post

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stagefoureddiediaz · 1 year

Text

Costume meta 6x09

Here we go - last one of 6a!! I’m feeling sad about not having metas to write every week, but I’m also looking forward to being able to get more of my costume plot work done (as well as being able to get back to decorating my flat but thats another story 😂)

Boy oh boy was this an interesting episode on the costume front! The costumes, along with sets, music and editing did some seriously heavy lifting in this episode - the costumes were laying some serious groundwork for 6b - Im vibrating with excitement over it all!

Athena

Going to start with Athena this week - we open with her in a set of silk pyjamas - in a dark dusty rose colour for me this was a very intentional choice - the entire scene is very muted its almost grey scale or sepia toned - like the colour has been washed out of the world - except for Athena - she is the solitary brightly coloured thing - she is Bobbys bright spot and the dark dusty pink is representative of their love. for me this costume is a bout setting up 6b and how Bobby is going to need to rely on Athena in whatever he is going to face going forward.

Then we have her all in black - this costume is obviously very much in Athenas wheelhouse, but its also a very interesting and deliberate choice for a couple of reasons - the first is that it makes Wendell’s watch stand out more - something which was important for the audience to pick up on in preparation for the 118 finding his body later in the episode. The second thing is that Athena is the only person we see Wendell touch and with her dressed in black the implication is that she represents death and the grim reaper.

I’m obviously not saying that Athena is the grim reaper/ angel of death, just that the show is choosing to make use of her presence as a way of channeling the concept in this particular scene.

Athena is wearing different necklaces in 6x09 - I really am enjoying the idea that as she has become free of various baggage that she has been carrying with her, her necklaces have changed and gained variety. If I get the chance during hiatus I’ll make a post about her various necklaces and when we see them and when we se changes!

But this new one is another Pyrrha necklace from the talisman range. They’ve paired the pendant with a black paperclip necklace - the necklace that looks most like the chain you find on shackles - again something playing into the imagery of the shackles holding one to life and to the earthly plain.

The pendant itself is a honeybee with a wreath of roses - this symbolises the significance of life and the importance of continued growth. This is the second time we’re seeing bees used as a symbol in as many episodes and I’m loving the use of it here - even if its in a somewhat depressing way. Bees are renowned for working together and we can take from the use of the bee symbol that Bobby and Athena will need to work together, but we can also take the meaning Pyrrha have attached to this charm -the concept of continued growth as important as well - form me its saying that Wendell as bobby’s sponsor, has taken him as far as he can go - that now it is down to Bobby to continue his journey and growth without him. And the importance of Athena wearing the bee - well she values Bobbys life, but she also is the direction Bobbys growth and future lie in - they need to work together and take that journey together and continue to grow together.

Honestly - if I could steal this outfit - I would!! A white open knit jumper with a dolman sleeve, over black vest and bright olive yellow/green high waisted trousers with a buckle detail at the ankle. its a very typical Athena outfit - its very much a variation on a theme - and in this episode - that means Athena is in a stable place which can only be a good thing as we head into 6b!

we also have the return of the pelican necklace - the symbol of selflessness and sacrifice for the care of others - again a perfect symbol for this moment and I’m a little in love with the fact they’ve connected Athena and Bobbys respective journeys to solve a mystery - Tanya Kingston for Athena and Bobbys sponsors death (most likely to be a murder). We saw how Bobby was there to support Athena and the necklace returning (as it did with Mays arc from the last episode as well) symbolises her being there to support him in return in 6b

Bobby

Bobby in pyjamas seems fairly innocuous to start off with - until you realise that they’ve paralleled him and buck and bookended the episode with said parallel! to be fair we only know this because of the bts picture, but it is still relevant to note - both in grey tops, dark trousers and black socks!

Considering we haven’t actually seen that much Bobby and Buck paralleling this season when we used to get a bit more of it, this is a really interesting choice - especially with the return of the voice overs both at the start and end of the episode. those voice overs and the paralleled costumes really so set out the stall for 6b - the Bobby arc and the Buck arc are going to be the ones we lead 6b with and the implication is clear - its going to be about family - the family you build - and what it means to be family - for Bobby that is as much about his AA family as it is his fire fam or his family with Athena - and all 3 are intertwined when you look at the bigger picture.

The grey is a definite choice - its reliable and stable and is connected with wisdom - to me thats telling me that both Bobby and Buck will end the season on more stable and solid ground than we find them at the beginning.

The second I saw this shirt - I screamed - and then when I got the context later in the episode - I was bouncing on my seat with glee!

Bobby wearing a teal green shirt;

which just so happens to be the same colour as;

Eddies teal green tee from 5x14 - tying these two scenes/stories together - Eddie being the one with Bobby when he realises its Wendell is so significant and that is what had me bouncing with glee when I saw it play out.

We have Eddie trying to get his head around loosing his comrades - the people he was in the trenches with and Bobby supporting him and giving him advice. and then We have Bobby in last nights episode - essentially doing the same thing - Wendell fills the same spot as Eddies comrades - the people you’re in AA with - they are you comrades in the trenches of addiction - the loss of one - especially a sponsor - it is a similar concept. Its the connection to family - the ones you build with the people you’re connected to in whatever circumstance you find yourself in - that is the conversation Bobby has with Eddie in 5x14 and the ghost of it is there, lurking in the background of 6x09. Bobby will never know what drove Wendell back into his addiction, but he can get some closure by finding out what happened - that is how Bobby ‘finds his way to heal’ just like he told Eddie to do in 5x14!

The blue shirt Booby wears when Wendell is visiting - its brighter than any of the blues we’ve seen him in this season

The maroon shirt is such a great choice for this scene - I know I’ve talked endlessly about maroon being the colour we see the men in a lot when its connected to being a father, and I guess in some ways this is still applicable here, the conversation when we first see him in this shirt is about family - Wendell’s family, Bobbys family, the firefam - however maroon is about as close to red as we’re going to get Bobby in and its its own form of red flag for him - the red flag being that the pieces fit together to lead him to the conclusion that Wendell was murdered - and then we see Bobby start investigating while in the same shirt

Chimney and Maddie

I’m going to talk about Madney as a unit this week - because their costumes actually combine to tell their story and its all about green!!! we have Chim talking about the murder house and family etc whilst wearing green (also supporting Hen while in green and displaying the continued growth and strength of their friendship) before we see Maddie in the same shade of green when they are viewing the house. Them being in the same shade of green is all about them ultimately being on the same page - it’s about them both growing together - and at the same pace. That Maddie’s green are getting darker (in the same way it appears Bucks are) is also highlighting her growth and the floral design on this shirt for me is pushing the analogy of planting and tending your garden so that it may grow - Maddie is beginning to see her family blossom!

Chimneys only other outfit is this grey zip front sweater - its a pretty typical Chimney sweater style - the grey is stability and reliability, its also a calming colour - Chimney talking about a house having good bones etc is him talking about it being stable - much like he is at this moment in time - he’s on a stable foundation etc from which to build his family solidly and better than it was previously.

Hen

This dip dye cardigan is gorgeous! the teal green top portion ties into the Bobby and Eddie colour, only for Hen I think its more of about foreshadowing rather than the scene itself - the foreshadowing of the loss of the existing family dynamic (as Hen says in her conversation with Chim later on ‘I’m not sure I’m ready to share’). THe choice of dip dye also does this - dip dyeing is the process of only putting one end into the dye and allowing it to rise up the fabric and in the process take over the underlying colour. This process plays into the concept of gradual change - that the life the Wilsons know is changing - that something new and different is slowly creeping up on them - in the same way the dye changes the colour of the fabric.

Yet again we have yellow being used as the colour of communication - this yellow in the marbling on the jacket is borderline tangerine, but it is yellow. The choice of marbling for the jacket is also interesting - its all the colours sitting suspended on a surface ( usually water - marbling is possible because the paint/dye acts like oil and thus doesn’t mix with the water) and being mixed, but not actually mixing together - much like the cardigan above, it hints at the possibility that the family dynamic that we’ll see in the future won’t blend - it will mix but stay separate - it will be like oil and water - that it will sit side by side - touching but not merging - maintaining as separate entities. It also reflects Hens inner turmoil as well as her attempt at subterfuge - the marbling is distracting and draws the eye!

🚨Check theory klaxon🚨 The way I got excited when I saw the sneak peak for this scene and Hen was wearing check - and not just check, but a patchwork of red check! The use of red is obviously to play into the red flag theme of the episode, but the use of a patchwork of check is interesting - patchwork is taking scraps of fabric (or whatever you make your patchwork from) which would be considered unusable for most things and making something that is greater than the sum of its parts - creating beauty from waste/scraps. It really plays into hte idea that Hen and Karen have taken things and combined them to create the life they have now - taking a chance on a blind date, taking the leap into something more, taking in Denny, fighting past infidelity, fostering all the kids they have, giving up dreams that would’ve taken them away from what they’ve built. So this check shirt is very much signalling that this life they’ve built is going to be challenged (hence the check), but heres the thing about patchwork - its easier to repair and alter without it looking odd - you can make it bigger or smaller, change out the pieces that aren’t working - without compromising the integrity of the bigger thing.

I also want to take this moment to point out that Hen is not dressed like her couch (more on that when we get to Eddie)😂

Karen

I adore this jumpsuit and the main take away from it for me is that yellow is the dominant colour - the colour of communication - and it is Karen that does most of the communication with Denny about his biological mother in this scene.

Karens peasant blouse is an interesting choice to me. Its completely in keeping with her character (we’ve seen her in similar items before). The thing about peasant blouses is that they are deceptive - the term peasant blosue has connotations of ‘the poor’ - the ones doing the hard work etc. but the truth is they’re incredibly complex and detailed garments - the embroidery is time consuming and intricate, its also beautiful and elaborate. Both aspects fit Karen as well as fitting the storyline - Karen is a beautiful soul who is intricate etc. She is also someone who works hard to both provide, but also to care for and grow her family. to me the use of this style of top is showing us the difference between someone who is there (doing the hard work of raising a child) and someone who chose to step away when presented with the opportunity (both Nathaniel Greene - who said he’d be guided by Hen and Karen, but who has evidently not kept in touch with them and Eva who was only interested in Denny when it suited her or when he could be used to try and get what she wanted). I think we’ll find its again, a piece of foreshadowing and something Denny will come to realise and appreciate more in 6b.

Denny

starting off with Denny in camouflage when he’s asking questions about his birth mother - epic move by the wardrobe department - its all about hiding your true intentions. Denny is a Wiley one because this whole thing was never about Eva - she was just the thing Denny was hiding his true purpose behind (because we know he already knows some things about her) and the camouflage was our signal that thats what he was doing. His assertion that he didn’t need another mother because he already has Hen and Karen is absolutely true - and he only asserts it when he’s got his hands on the information that he wants - the information about his biological father!

Got to confess that I was a bit puzzled by this choice of tee - until I realised that there were also clouds on it - so the theme is that Denny currently has this sunshine and palm trees life - but the clouds are rolling in - a perfect choice when we know that the first couple of episodes after hiatus are going to feature both a lot of rain and a rainless lightening storm of some sort - this tee shows us the storm clouds are gathering in California (renowned for its sunshine and palm trees!)

Eddie

Eddie is very much hiding in plain sight this week and that is fascinating to me - for such seemingly nondescript costumes there is a huge amount going on.

We first see him back in a Henley (everybody cheered) - its black and does a great job of blending him in to the couch in the low light levels. We don’t tend to see Eddie in black all that often (apart from the black vests - which, well we all know about those and what they mean 😂) we would typically see him in either green or cream/beige for this type of scene so the decision to have him in black and camouflage him with the sofa is very telling - it really adds to Eddies attitude throughout this phone conversation - Eddie is not going to get into the sperm donor thing because he isn’t happy about it. Black is both a colour of mourning and a power colour - and in some ways we get both aspects in play here - its a bit of a power move by Eddie to get himself out of the conversation at the same time making it clear how he feels about the whole situation - mourning isn’t really the right word, but the implication that Eddie is frustrated by Bucks choice - that he is perhaps mourning the fact that Buck is still misunderstanding the assignment is what makes Eddie being in black at this moment an interesting choice

Watch watch 👀👀👀 It’s so interesting to have Eddie wearing his work watch at home, it’s not something we’ve seen him do since he started wearing two different watches in 4x06 Jinx (we see the blue face brown leather strap one for the first time when he meets up with Ana for their date) The fact that the blue faced one is so closely tied with Christopher and Buck (see the post I wrote about it here if you haven’t already) and he’s not wearing it in either of his scenes when he’s at home even though we’ve seen him wearing it this season is very telling. it adds an additional layer to what I wrote above about Eddie not being happy about the sperm donor situation because it separates the Buckley-Diaz family and so Eddie himself is separating himself from that concept and its manifesting as him not wearing that watch - the watch that is part Chris and part Buck. It highlights that time is still an important element in Eddies story - and that the Buck and Chris aspect of time is also important - its saying that Eddie isn’t working on that aspect of his life right now (almost like he’s been ale to hit that snooze button he talked about) he’s avoiding it, but I’m pretty confident that watch will reappear in 6b!

The navy blue shirt blends him into the sofa - I’ve spoken about this episode and the idea of camouflage several times above. That we see Eddie blending into his couch just before the camera cuts to a sleeping Buck - loud!!! The thing Buck doesn’t have at the moment - a couch - the thing he’s waiting to replace until the right couch comes along - when we’ve already seen how the show has made use of couches in connection with Buck - we’re pretty much being trolled at this point!

Buck

Buck in pale blue again - I said in my 6x02 meta how I was expecting us to keep seeing Buck in light blue - getting lighter or darker depending on where he is in his journey - that started with the pale blue wedding suit in 5x18 - well I do love it when the show proves me right! Buck is in a lighter blue here - suggesting that he’s gone backwards in his journey (especially when you consider that this long sleeve tee is the same brand as the darker one he wore in 6x07 the first time he tried to donate his sperm - the universe has been screaming at you Buck!!) and we know that is going to continue to be the case in 6b!

Sleepy Buck I’ve already talked a bit about in the Bobby section - the grey is mostly about paralleling them. But there are other things going on here as well. To start with the vertical stripes are on full display - continuing to play into my theory about Buck wearing vertical stripes. The grey also does a similar thing to Eddie being in navy blue - it blends him into his bedding - camouflage - this episode has been full of it - hiding in plain sight, keeping secrets and ‘hiding your true feelings from others’ (looking at both of you Buck and Eddie!!). Camouflaging ones self is an act of protection - self preservation, but it is also an act of sabotage and it can be a red flag - which we see it is throughout this episode. then there is the foreshadowing the grey represents - the stability and maturity - things I think we’re likely to see Buck achieve by the end of the season as he figures himself out more.

The other thing to point out from this scene is the cushion Buch is sleeping on - its the use of triangles again - we saw it used when the Taylor-Buck-Lucy triangle happened in 5b, and here we have them again - when we have Buck caught up in another triangle of his own making - this one is Buck Conor and Kameron and the Baby Buck has just helped to create.

And yes Buck is still wearing his watch at all times - in both scenes (we know he is in the second one thanks to the bts we got vvv)

I don’t normally talk about uniforms, but I thought it was actually an important point to dive into this week - especially concerning Buck because they chose to do a couple of very deliberate things with is uniform and it really really tells us a huge amount about where Buck is at.

We’ve had conversations within the fandom about Buck distancing himself from the rest of the 118, well his costumes are helping to make the visual even more obvious, it wasn’t as blatant earlier in the season, but they went very hard with it in 6x09, because not only is he physically creating distance from the rest of the team (which we’re seeing with him being off sleeping and away from the others etc) he’s also doing it with his uniform too, and the whole being cold theme Buck had going on in 6x09 - that is some epic foreshadowing my friends!

The rest of the fire fam are wearing their bomber jackets - except Buck - who is clearly cold by the way he is rubbing his arms etc. this is all about Buck essentially freeing out the firefam and not the other way around and its just the latest and biggest manifestation we’re seeing of this - something which we’ve had building in the background since the shooting. We’ve gone over it in great detail - how Buck was distant - and how Taylor was responsible for that in S5 - however what we’ve seen in 6a is that, while Taylor definitely played a part in it, she wasn’t the cause and her departure hasn’t solved the wider issue. Buck not dealing with Eddie being shot - as well as Maddie leaving (no judgement on Maddie I’ll come for you if you try) - both things that have pushed buck into a trauma response - which for Buck is creating distance - when you reflect on it - its something he has done his whole life - its just manifesting in a slightly different way at this point in time. Maddie might have described herself as a fugitive, but Buck is also one - previously he ran to the next adventure to prevent himself getting hurt - now he’s creating distance from his family as a way of trying to prevent himself getting hurt. Thats why the writers put in that monologue from Buck about being someone who went on adventures etc in 6x04 - literally connecting all of his trauma responses together.

The sleep driver incident also showed us Buck dressed very differently from the rest of the team - Eddie is also dressed differently as he isn’t wearing the short sleeve shirt Chimney, Hen and Bobby are - again separating him from the others - it puts him closer to Buck which is intentional so that when we see their reactions to a naked lady we pair them off even more than just the script implies!

Even when we do see him dressed the same (as Eddie) his body language is closed off and the distance Buck has been creating remains! Again having him and Eddie dressed the same while the others are dressed in full uniform serves to both highlight Buck and Eddie as their own unit, but it also plays a role in foreshadowing - I want to also point out another prop getting in on the heavy lifting - Eddie is in a red chair - a red flag if you will - also foreshadowing. To me that is saying that Buck being closed off and separates will continue, but its Eddie who is in danger early in 6b (which we’ve now got a pretty good idea about thanks to the trailer) and this foreshadowing is what we’ll see come to fruition in 6b (Chimney is also in a red chair, so we’re likely to see something around him and some sort of issue with his new house (as thats what he was talking about while sat in the chair)).

we also see Buck dressed differently even when in the wildfire uniform - his sleeves are rolled up - when everyone else has them fully down - protecting their arms (this is obviously a deliberate costume choice irl a firefighter wouldn’t be allowed to have their sleeves rolled up while actively fighting a fire as the yellow jacket is fireproof and there to protect!) In some ways this subtly plays into the concept of risk taker Buck, but its mainly done to continue highlighting that Buck is not fully part of the team at this point in time - that he’s different to the rest.

we see it continue when they get back to the firehouse - Buck has grown the distance by stripping down to the grey long sleeve tee (petition to see more of the grey tees - they look so good!!) while the rest are still in full wildfire turnouts. There is a part of me that feels like this is foreshadowing Buck being physically separated from the team in 6b, but at this point its just conjecture on my part (it would however fit into the idea of 6b injured/ coma Buck so its not really that out there!)

And just like that 6a’s costume metas are complete!!

If you’ve made it to the end then I thank you - have a cookie on me 🍪🍪🍪

I hope you’ve enjoyed my deep dive ramblings on costume for 6x09 - drop me a reblog or a comment to let me see your thoughts - I love reading them!!

As always tagged people below

@mistmarauder @theladyyavilee @loveyourownsmiilee @leothil @girldadbuddie @kitkatpancakestack @buckscurls @lemotmo @trashendence @elishareads @clipboardsandstethoscopes @comfortbuddie @fiona-fififi @name-code-black-widow @callanee @calyssmarviss @pbandjeremiah @batgrldes @piningpettyeddie @bi-moonlight @spotsandsocks @livingwherethesidewalkends @idontshitpostbuttheolympicpark @diazboysbuckley @sweettsubaki @shortsighted-owl @sherlocking-out-loud @dickley-buddie @favouritealias @hearteyesdiaz @gossamerglob @ktinastrikesback @adamrparrrish @princesschez75 @bucksbuddie @oneawkwardcookie @leatherat @moniquekatie @wanderingwomanwondering @trickster-archangel @outrunningthedark @asharadaine @ajunerose @talespinner230 @pop-kam @swiftiebuckleys @xxfiction-is-my-realityxx @butchjerry

#kym costume meta #911 costume meta #kym costume theory #911 costume theory #911 colour theory #911 costumes #911 on fox #911 fox #athena grant #bobby nash #hen wilson #karen wilson #denny wilson #chimney han #maddie buckley #evan buckley #evan buck buckley #buck #eddie diaz

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estellamiraiauthor · 1 year

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The Stars May Rise and Fall: The Annotated Re-read (Chapter 31)

While this is a really important, kinda heartbreaking chapter, I’m not really sure how much I’ll have to add. It’s all pretty much there on the page (and I’m kinda sad that we’re nearing the end of the book), but I’ll do my best to add whatever I can. ❤️

As always, spoilers under the cut!

This chapter opens the day after the Hakone trip. Teru and Rei are in bed, and the obvious implication is that they’ve come home to be intimate again. I do SORT OF touch on “how far” they went… Teru asks Rei if he wants to “do more,” and you can read into that whatever details you want, but it was definitely supposed to indicate that although they’re enjoying exploring intimacy together, they’re also taking it slow.

And then Teru makes his choice… he tells Rei that he’s going to turn down the offer so he can keep singing Rei’s music, and playing at the venues Rei is comfortable going to. And Rei tells him to wait before he tells the others, because he’s now 100% decided that he’s going to leave.

Around chapter 20, which is the one where they go on the Ferris wheel date, I reached a point where I didn’t know where this story was going. I’d gotten Rei and Teru together, but there were still so many unresolved issues that it was hard to imagine them really being happy together long term. Many versions of the Phantom story use the Erik-Christine-Raoul love triangle in some form as the final conflict, but these characters had taken on a life of their own, and Teru was clearly no longer interested in Kiyomi (aka “Raoul”) as a romantic partner at this point… when Christine ends up with Raoul, we ache for Erik, but it’s a satisfying ending because Raoul is the one she wants to be with in the first place. But a Kiyomi/Teru ending wouldn’t have been satisfying, or made any sense at that point, at all.

So what was the final conflict? What was the choice that Teru had to make? I thought about it for YEARS, and in that time I read a lot of sort of meta writing about various Phantoms, and something I read about the original Leroux novel was what ultimately pointed me in the right direction: “He loved her so he let her go.”

I’m that novel, Erik gives Christine a choice: either she stays with him as his “living wife”, or he blows up the opera house and kills everyone in it (or at least tries). She chooses to stay, and kisses him, and he is so moved by that act of love that he lets her go anyway. Now, there’s obviously a lot that doesn’t work here: Rei’s not a murderer, Teru DOES actually want to stay with him. But “he loved him so he let him go”? That I could do.

So it ends up being kind of a choice, not between Rei and Kiyomi, but between Rei and his career. Rei never actually spells it out as an ultimatum, but he definitely makes Teru FEEL like it is… and Teru chooses Rei, so Rei has to love him enough to let him go… which is TOTALLY misguided. But in his poor, twisted mind, he really thinks that this is the greatest thing he can do to make Teru happy.

Teru makes this decision on Christmas Day, and then we skip ahead to New Year’s Eve. Rei, in that time, we can assume has been making preparations to leave.

He gives Teru a necklace—jewelry again! This was definitely supposed to contrast with the (now broken on the floor of the Shibuya Starbucks) necklace Kiyomi gave him… Kiyomi’s depicted a creature in bondage, and the gift itself was sort of intended to make Teru “hers”. But Rei’s is red amber that Teru thinks looks like a sunrise, and although Teru doesn’t notice it until later, it’s inscribed “Shine,” which is what Teru’s self-chosen name means, and what Rei has repeatedly promised him he will do. When Rei originally ordered it, he probably intended it to be a kind of blessing for Teru to take the recording contract; now he uses it as a goodbye gift. Either way, it’s the opposite of Kiyomi’s gift: intended to set Teru free, not tie him down.

They play the countdown show… these kinds of concerts were real. They basically lasted all day, and a lot of people would get tickets to more than one, and move around among the different venues to see all their favorite bands. It was kind of crazy but a lot of fun. New Year’s is the big winter holiday in Japan, and a lot of people spend it with family, but for young people who are more focused on hobbies, it was a night to spend with friends and to stay out till morning.

So Teru does that, but he ends up leaving early because he’s worried about the way Rei said goodbye. He doesn’t put it into words until later in the chapter, once he’s reasonably sure that Rei IS okay, but I think the worry has been building up all night that Rei might try to take his own life.

When he gets to Rei’s apartment, the locks have been changed. Teru thinks this is weird, because a lot of businesses ARE closed on New Year’s Eve, but there are definitely 24-hour, 365-day a year locksmiths, mainly for people who lock themselves out of their houses in the middle of the night, but as long as someone is willing to pay the holiday rate, they’re probably fine with doing other work as well.

Teru’s still scared, but eventually one of his phone calls to Rei gets manually rejected. You can still pretty much tell based on the number of rings whether someone has rejected a call or whether it’s just timed out, but it used to be a completely different message. Of course, you wouldn’t USUALLY be relieved to get the “rejected” message from someone you’re in a relationship with, but in this case, Teru is relieved because at least it means Rei is alive. (I honestly don’t think he’s ever really been suicidal though… maybe he WISHES he could just end his own suffering, but I don’t think he really WANTS to, because the feeling of obligation to let Saki and the rest of the band live on through his music, and to keep atoning for their deaths for the rest of his life, is too strong…. He’s also got that stubborn string of hope that won’t give up, even when he wants to.)

And then at the end, Teru does finally notice the “shine” inscription, and realizes what Rei has done. 😭

#the stars may rise and fall #annotated #phantom retelling #writing process #Inspired by Leroux

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selenestarmoon · 1 year

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Between Magic and Mirrors

Would you believe me if I told you that this character

is like this

and this?

While I watched Neo in RWBY, I couldn't help but notice the similarities she has to Umineko's Beatrice and Bleach's Sosuke Aizen and I'll explain all of these in more detail here:

NEOPOLITAN AND BEATRICE - IMAGINATION, MAGIC AND ESCAPISM

Beatrice is a character of Umineko who is known to be the Golden Witch but her true identity is Sayo Yasuda, Kinzo's illegitimate daughter born by incest who after Natsuhi accidentally pushed the servant who was holding Sayo causing Sayo to lose her private parts, being saved by Genji and Kumasawa who raise her in secret to avoid another incestuous episode by Kinzo. This caused Sayo to have insecurities about herself and her own gender and to make matters worse the other maids start to pester her for her clumsiness in her work as a maid and her only friend was Kumasawa with whom she develops a love for mystery stories and magic in general. Sayo was unhappy and always alone so she started creating imaginary friends to make up for her loneliness and because of her love for magic she created Proto Beatrice (later know as Gaap) to explain her own clumsiness and later creates Shannon persona, the perfect servant girl. Sayo's imagination becomes her refuge but also her prison because it gave relief to her loneliness and made her feel good about herself but in turn this isolated her from others. Later she meets Battler and for the first time she doesn't feel lonely for long but due to her loneliness she trusts Battler too much to the point that she takes seriously Battler's promise that he would come back for her but when he doesn't come back which makes Sayo feel betrayed but to make matters worse she discovers her true identity as Kinzo's illegitimate daughter, she goes mad, takes Beatrice persona as her own and think that she's a real witch.

Later Sayo causes Rokenjima incident as a way to get revenge on the family that hurt her and especially Battler for leaving her alone but in turn she feels bad for everything she has done and chooses to commit suicide by drowning in the sea.

In the meta world Beatrice plays the killing games with Battler so that he knows that the reason for the Rokenjima incident is so that he would remember the promise he made to her when she was Sayo.

Do you know who more was born in a rich and toxic family that hurt her for her disability, used her imagination as a form of freedom and escapism and ended up loving a man just so that when that man disappears she goes mad and seeks revenge as a result?

Beatrice and Neo are adults who act like children so they lash out at others but they don't take responsibility for their actions nor do they realize how their actions hurt others, they only care about their own pain. This is even seen when Sayo and Trivia create their imaginary friends (Gaap or Proto Beatrice and Pink Neopolitan) not only to feel accompanied but also to blame them for their mistakes.

Beatrice's actions led to the terrible situation that Eva was forced to live in as the sole survivor of her family and having to deal with the media accusation that she killed everyone on the island when in fact Eva was suffering for the loss of her husband Hideyoshi and her son George and the rejection of Ange and Ange herself had to endure being bullied at school for being the daughter of Rudolf and Kyrie, alleged murderers of Rokenjima, and also in her desire for her parents to return, rejected Eva believing that her parents and brother would come back for her. Battler was also hurt by Beatrice's actions because by trying to follow her and stay with her in her death, he survives but doesn't remember anything and is found by Ikuko Hachiyo who he marries and is tormented by memories that come to him through nightmares. Neo for her part wants revenge against Cinder but she is manipulated for her to help her and unload her anger against Ruby which makes Neo help Cinder to destroy an entire kingdom without mentioning that her actions are indirectly helping Salem to destroy the world because Salem's plan is to make the world a chaotic place so that when the Brother Gods are summoned they will destroy the world as a result of the chaos that exists.

Another thing that both have in common is their powers and how both are based on the manipulation of reality through imagination to some extent. Beatrice is a witch whose powers basically consist of making what she imagines come true, forcing reality to make what she believes to be real be real because Sayo, her true identity, dealt with loneliness through her imagination. The above can be seen from the fact that she didn't ask to revive Sakutaro because she believed that Rosa denied it but Angel revives him simply because she believed that Sakutaro was alive by having a spare stuffed animal.

Neo's semblance allows her to manifest whatever she imagines into reality in illusions made of glass that everyone can see.

Both powers force reality to operate under the rules of Beatrice and Neo and even said powers are enhanced in places linked to the imagination (the Golden Land is a kingdom created by Beatrice where everything she thinks comes true and Neo is in Ever After, a magical place where it reflects the psyche of the characters and therefore also reflects the imagination). Beatrice's golden magic and Neo's semblance are perfect powers for a lonely and imaginative child and for deadly assassins, imagination is a double-edged sword because although Beatrice and Neo deal with their loneliness with their imagination (they create imaginary friends) and it gives them the freedom they feel they don't have with their original identities (Beatrice - Sayo Yasuda, Neopolitan - Trivia Vanille) in turn they get stuck in their own heads who just can't accept reality and instead look for reality to be as they want or believe it should be.

Beatrice and Neo are witches, Beatrice, as I said before, is the Golden Witch and Neopolitan is based on Trivia, the Roman goddess of witchcraft and there is something interesting about the concept of a witch in Umineko which is that a person becomes a witch by feeling rejection of their reality but they puts aside their humanity and their ties to other people and this also applies in RWBY: Sayo couldn't stand her life as a human and took the identity of Beatrice to feel free and take revenge and in the end she ends up in the Golden Land and in RWBY while team RWBY looks to get out of Ever After and Jaune can't get out until he gets help, Neo seems rather comfortable in Ever After and may even want to stay there.

Beatrice dies in real life not accepting the blame for her actions and ends up alone in the Golden Land until the end of Umineko where Battler finally reunites with her and Neo is running the risk of ending up just like Beatrice: ending up as a lonely witch in an imaginary world.

NEOPOLITAN AND SOSUKE AIZEN - LIVING MIRRORS

If there is something we know about Neo, it is how she is essentially a living mirror, not only because she creates illusions made of glass that everyone can see, but also because she is a mirror for the characters, especially for Ruby, but they know that another character curiously share these same traits with Neo?

Sosuke Aizen is a character from Bleach and one of the main antagonists of the manga. Not only does he share some physical similarities with Neo, but his powers are illusions visible to all who have seen his Shikai's activation and something curious is that Neo's and Aizen's illusions are made of glass.

Glass is an element that in fiction represents fragility, which gives us clues that Aizen and Neo's senses of identity are as fragile as glass itself: Aizen's identity is fragile because it is only based on what he can do (his intellect and his powers) to the point that he feels that morality does not apply to him, he feels that only he can change and rule the Soul Society and Ichigo even speculates that the reason Aizen wanted to conquer Soul Society was because of his desire for an equal, that his extreme power and intelligence only served to isolate him from the moment he was born (this can be seen in his effort to strengthen Ichigo as well as his respect for Kisuke Urahara stems from seeing them as equals) and Neo feels oppressed by her own family for not accepting her because of her disability and she unconsciously feels that no one is going to accept her and takes refuge in her idealized identity (Neopolitan) where she is powerful and free to do what she wants without being nobody oppresses her but she defines herself only by her bond with Roman (after their relationship goes from transactional to something genuine, Roman is the only one who respects her and wants her) and her life as a criminal that gives her freedom makes her dependent on Roman and unable to form bonds with others. Aizen and Neo were born with physical and/or mental conditions (Aizen - high intellect and enormous spiritual pressure and Neo - muteness and her semblance) that made them feel different from others, which caused their actions and their identity to be based on said conditions to the point that their powers they serve to reflect that sense of self that both have of themselves: sharp but fragile.

Aizen and Neo not only have a glass motif because of their fragile sense of self but also because they are mirrors that reflect the characters.

Aizen is a reflects that reflects Kisuke, Toshiro, Starrk and even Ichigo himself:

Aizen reflects Kisuke because they are both renowned geniuses for their great intellect and even looking to create something new just because they could just because Kisuke has moral boundaries that he dares not cross and Aizen just doesn't care about morals.

Aizen reflects Toshiro in the sense that they were both born prodigies having extremely enormous power and were ostracized because of it but Toshiro didn't let their power define him as a person but saw it as a part of himself and he managed to bond with the others while Aizen saw his power and intellect as his complete identity, which made him unable to have a bond with anyone.

Aizen reflects Starrk because they are both extremely powerful beings but this distanced them from each other because the others were weaker than them, making both wish they were weak in order to bond with others or meet people who were as strong as them or mlre. Starrk created Lilinette and found people (including Aizen himself) for him to be with without being overwhelmed by his power, relieving his loneliness while Aizen is unable to bond with anyone because he finds no one he considers an equal or that they are powerful enough that they are able to withstand his own power.

Aizen reflects Ichigo because they are both extremely powerful but both just want to be normal, the difference is that Ichigo knows that this is his wish, he expresses it openly and in the end lives a normal life with his family while Aizen does not recognize or realize it of that desire and seeks to be superior to others.

Neo is also a mirror that reflects other characters, in her case, Team RWBY and Jaune:

Neo reflects Ruby in that they both deal incorrectly with the loss of a loved one, refuse to examine themselves so they can't face said loss, and dress like said loved ones (Ruby wears clothing resembling the ones her mother Summer wore and Neo wears Roman's hat and gray cloth) to feel close to them and/or to feel that they are still alive in some way. Ruby suppresses everything she feels and decides to move on and Neo gets carried away by her emotions to the point that she doesn't care if she and others get hurt.

Neo reflects Weiss in the sense that they both grew up in a rich but toxic family and wanted to be free but Weiss grows as a person because she had the support of Winter and then she has the positive support of RWBY which allows when Weiss goes down in Ever After After losing her father and her home, she doesn't lash out at anyone but rather seeks to leave the place while Neo has no personal growth because she did not know anyone, she loses her parents who oppressed her and Roman is left, who does love her but his support it's not positive and when she loses him Neo gets angry and lashes out at others and doesn't seem to be concerned about staying in Ever After.

Neo reflects Blake because they were both born with conditions that make them different from the others (Blake is a Faunos and Neo is mute) and they were strongly discriminated for it and they both get together with a man (Adam and Roman) who lead them astray but they stay with them for accepting them only Adam becomes more and more violent and Blake leaves him to have a better life and manages to have healthy relationships with other people while Neo stays with Roman and she doesn't form bonds with other people and Roman, unlike Adam with Blake, he truly respects and loves Neo but being a criminal he led her down that same path and when Neo loses him she has no one else.

Neo reflects Yang in the sense that they are both proud of who they are and violently attack all those who hurt their loved ones and don't think about the consequences of their actions. The difference is that Yang learns that she shouldn't live and show only her idealized self but must accept that her vulnerability is a part of her identity and that she shouldn't reject it and she also learns that violence is not the answer to everything but has to to think things through before doing them and pay attention to the big picture while Neo clings to her idealized identity but puts aside his share of Trivia (her vulnerability) and Neo in her eagerness to lash out without thinking doesn't think about her actions which makes her easy for Cinder to manipulate neither does she think that what happened to Roman was partly his own fault and partly just a circunstance that could have happened at any time nor does she think about the bigger picture and how their actions affect that big picture.

Neo reflects Jaune in the sense that they were both seeking revenge for the death of a loved one (Pyrrha and Roman) at the hands of Cinder (only Roman didn't die directly for Cinder but he die by agreeing to do her plan) because they have no idea how to deal with the pain of losing a loved one and in turn cling to an idealized identity that gives them a sense of purpose (Jaune as a knight and Neo in his current Neopolitan identity). Jaune tries to take revenge on Cinder but everything goes wrong until he discovers his semblance and saves Weiss and puts aside his revenge, later in Atlas he learns to improve his defense and embraces his identity as a knight until he is forced to kill Penny because she asks him and from what we has seen, Jaune will have to examine himself, accept Penny's death and also accept the fact that he hurt her in order to reconcile with himself and find a new purpose and grow as a person while that Neo tries to take revenge on Cinder but she manipulates her into helping her and attack Ruby, and later betrays her and Neo instead of examining herself and her purpose that has her current identity, she simply chooses to stay with her current purpose which is to continue attacking Ruby and probably against Cinder, doesn't accept Roman's death and she doesn't care if she or others get hurt because of her which makes Neo have no personal growth.

The fact that Aizen and Neo reflect the characters is so true that they can even literally become reflections of the characters as if they were mirrors. They reflect what the characters hide from themselves or what they can become if they give in to their flaws and even Aizen and Neo use their powers to confuse their enemies and turn them against themselves.

Like I said earlier, Neo, Beatrice and Aizen have powers that influence reality to make it whatever they want but they don't get what they really want. Basically their powers make them writers but they are writers who don't know write a story that they like, being writers of their own tragedy: Sayo ends everything and just wants to die, Aizen wants company but never realizes his wish and ends Sealed in the Muken and Neo can't accept Roman's death and lashes out at everything and everyone, leading to a bad ending for Beatrice and Aizen and Neo runs the risk of ending up having a bad ending like Beatrice and Aizen.

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yeetlegay · 2 years

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Shifting power dynamics in episode 4: a stupidly long meta

I've already talked about episode 4 in two different posts, a vocal analysis for Kinn and an analysis of the ownership/possession motif in eps 1-4. Even with those two posts (which I wrote and posted in the span of like 48 hours, rip my brain), there was still so much that I wanted to talk about in episode 4, so here goes my third meta of the week. Buckle up besties, this is a LONG one.

Disclaimer: I don’t want to get into the whole dubcon discourse piece of this. I get that people have Opinions, but I am here for shenanigans only and I think I’ve answered the amount of asks about it that I really care to. To sum up: I don’t mind dubcon in fiction! I can get behind just about any fictional relationship no matter how problematic as long as they give me a compelling story with compelling characters and the problematic elements serve a narrative purpose and are handled well. Fiction, for me, is ultimately just that: fiction.

With the above disclaimer in mind, this post isn’t so much about power as it relates to consent, but about how power made a pretty dramatic change of hands in this episode, and what I think that means for the story to come. I’ll be focusing a lot on body language, but also on how certain scenes and shots are framed, and referring back to my vocal analysis a lot so I don’t end up just rehashing what I said there. Fair warning, my background is in sociology, specifically micro, so I tend to run away with details when talking about this sort of thing lol.

I talked about this here after episode 3, but as I hoped, that kiss on the pier (which didn’t happen in the book) completely altered the build-up to their first time.

That kiss on the pier is actually kind of genius bc from the preview we know they’re still doing the roofie scene, but by having them kiss before that (albeit a little drunk) they’ve given a totally different context to build from. Kinn and Porsche have already had a moment where they acknowledged their attraction to each other, even if it wasn’t out loud, so it means when that scene does come, it’ll be clear for both of them that even if the drug is affecting Porsche, it’s not actually making him ask for something he doesn’t already want.

This doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s still dubcon. (Again, not getting into it, but wanted to make sure that’s clear.) But it means a lot for how both Kinn and Porsche approach that moment through episode 4.

We open with Porsche waking up the next morning, vaguely remembering a kiss and not seeming bothered by it, more intrigued than anything else. Mirror that scene, where Porsche more or less shrugs off the encounter, with Kinn’s morning. He’s looking at himself in the mirror, lost in his thoughts, conflicted and confused by what happened the night before. We realize later on that some of that confusion is because he gave Porsche an intimacy that he doesn’t seem to give anyone else he’s involved with: a kiss. His internal turmoil isn’t just because he’s attracted to Porsche, which comes with its own problems, but because he wants him in a way he hasn’t wanted anyone in a long time, maybe ever. The kiss, and even the fact that it didn’t go further, is proof of that.

Kinn's body language in this scene is...unusual. When do we ever see his shoulders hunched forward like that, leaning his weight against something? It ruins that perfect, confident posture and makes him look more vulnerable. We're also seeing him shirtless, which obvs yay for Kinn tiddies, but we haven't really seen that a lot from him either. He's always wearing a suit, casual clothes, even a fancy pajama set that makes him look like a sexc grandpa. But we're literally seeing him more or less naked here (the towel doesn't want to be there either, bless it), stripped literally and figuratively. He doesn't look like a powerful and untouchable mafia prince here. He looks conflicted, fallible, and painfully human.

@luckydragon10 wrote a little meta about the use of mirrors here and even though that post is about a different scene, she brings up the GREAT point that we have yet to see Porsche in a mirrored surface by himself. Kinn, meanwhile, is here in this scene fully exposed, staring directly at his reflection. I'm not a color theory expert AT ALL (that would be @antique-forvalaka) but the gold sconces are very eye-catching here; since gold is the mafia's color, maybe that's a hint as to where Kinn's headspace is at in this moment.

But anyway, my point is that we're seeing Kinn's confusion and inner conflict here very clearly. We see how seriously he's thinking about the previous night, how much it presses on him. That wasn't "just a kiss" for Kinn. The mirror, the body language, the slightly vignetted flashback, the music choice, the lack of clothing, all tell us Kinn is feeling vulnerable in this moment over that kiss. Which by extension tells us quite a bit about how much he feels for Porsche already.

Moving on to the cigarette lighter scene (idk what else to call this lol).

The blocking here is interesting. I don't want to read too much into it, but notice how Porsche is in the foreground, the sunlight angling down from the top right toward him. His hands are crossed in front of his stomach, making him look casual but reserved, as though he's placing a barrier between him and Vegas. He doesn't fully angle his body toward Vegas, just leans his head in a little. Vegas, meanwhile, is standing with his back to the light and is a step or two further away from the camera. He looks physically smaller, which he is, but the shot exaggerates it just a little. He's reaching his whole arm out, staring at Porsche, bringing the lighter right to his mouth, his torso open but angled away a little like Porsche. And the shot doesn't fully capture his body like it does Porsche, cutting off an arm and part of his shoulder.

This shot centers Porsche, makes him look powerful. Everything in the shot leans into him—the lighting, the camera, Vegas himself. He doesn't look like Vegas's equal; he looks like his superior.

I'll also say the optics of Vegas bringing the light to his cigarette is a neat little metaphor for how Vegas not only approaches Porsche with malicious intent (fire is, uh, kind of bad unless it's in a fireplace or a BTS song), but how he also brings conflict to Porsche and sets off trouble between him and Kinn.

(Also once again referencing @antique-forvalaka's incredible color theory series because look at all the green in this scene. Porsche literally has a wall of green behind him, which as noted in her post here seems to indicate danger.)

I told y'all I was gonna dig into this episode, didn't I? 😂

This shot of Kinn feels odd, doesn't it? We're not used to seeing Kinn hide. In fact, aside from that gunfight scene in episode 1 when he (very understandably) ducked behind some boxes to avoid getting shot, I can't recall him ever being an observer or hidden presence in a scene. When he's on the screen, everyone knows it. It's hard to fit his power and charisma into a room.

But here, he looks...small. He's outsized by the rest of the frame, surrounded by (interestingly imo) an awful lot of glass. The plant in the foreground adds to this effect (and once again, it's green!), and even though he's in focus, he still feels almost like part of the background.

Kinn just doesn't do this sort of thing. He doesn't make himself smaller, he doesn't eavesdrop, he doesn't sneak. And yet here he is, trying to be invisible, all so he can watch Porsche and Vegas together, all because he's jealous and out of his depth.

The pool scene is really where we get the first big flashy sign that that something is shifting in their power dynamic. I chose the screenshot above as an example of what's happening here, but I could've picked like 20 different frames that give the same information from a different angle.

Look at their body language first. Porsche, standing tall, shoulders back, looking relaxed and comfortable, if a little annoyed. He's taking up space, arms at his sides swinging a little carelessly as he turns. He's looking at Kinn over his shoulder, body angled away from him, ready to leave, not at all cowed or diminished by Kinn's attempts to scold him. Honestly, he looks like he's only barely stopping himself from rolling his eyes.

Then we have Kinn, one hand in his pocket (does he usually put his hands in his pockets? I feel like I haven't seen him do it very much but no time to go back and comb through 3 episodes to find out), the other hand resting a little awkwardly on the railing. His whole body is directed at Porsche, chin tilted up when he usually keeps it tilted a little down, which adds to his usual aura of understated power. Because of this angle, his figure is much narrower than Porsche's. He takes up much less space in the frame.

Now look at their backdrop. Porsche is standing in front of empty space, buildings framing either side of him but not crowding into his figure directly and making him look compressed. Kinn, meanwhile, is standing almost directly in front of what looks like a skyscraper in the distance, with other slightly shorter buildings closer behind him. The effect is stark when you notice it. He's crowded in, almost dwarfed by that backdrop. He looks even smaller with that tall building stretching over his head.

And I'm not done! I saw some discussion about mirrors and reflections this week, although no full meta posts that I've come across yet (please link if there are any, I'd love to read it!). But look at their reflections in the water in this shot. It exaggerates what we see even further. Porsche is bigger, wider, more clearly defined, while Kinn is smaller, narrower, and and more vague.

That's not even touching on the dialogue, which is a whole thing in and of itself. I talk more about this in my vocal analysis for episode 4, but basically Kinn is messy in this scene. He doesn’t have a plan for what to say to Porsche when he gets there and it shows. He uses filler words, he hesitates, he fumbles for what to say. He calls out after Porsche (”Wait!”) with none of his usual authority or confidence. Kinn is out of his depth. He wants to know what Porsche is thinking about the previous night, but he doesn’t know how to ask. If Porsche’s answer didn’t mean so much to Kinn, he’d have less trouble asking for it. (I’m reminded for some reason of that quote from Emma: “If I loved you less, I might be able to talk about it more.”)

All of this gives us the overwhelming sense that Kinn is the one standing on sand in this scene. He’s the one floundering, trying to make sense of that kiss, trying to behave like it doesn’t matter while at the same time seeking Porsche out the first chance he gets to talk about it, to determine what to do based on how Porsche is reacting. If he’d already decided to forget the kiss happened or brush it off and move on, he wouldn’t need to talk to Porsche first thing the next morning. He wouldn’t need to couch his questions in vague terms. In doing both of those things, he’s giving Porsche power, power to determine how Kinn feels, how he acts, how he interprets that kiss.

After the scene by the pool, Kinn has his feet under him a little bit. Now he knows where he stands with Porsche. Even if his feelings are still confused and chaotic, they’re his to deal with alone. He doesn’t have to worry about Porsche’s reaction, about how Porsche’s perception of him might have changed. He knows he made himself vulnerable with Porsche through that kiss, and he’s relieved Porsche doesn’t have the memory to turn over in his clever head until he figures out what it means.

So here in the sauna he’s more relaxed, settled back into his skin. That confidence and charisma is back. He fills up the screen, makes Porsche be the guest in his space, even though Porsche was there first. And he wants Porsche to stay, despite how affected Kinn is by him. Simply put, he likes Porsche’s company. He still feels that pull to be around him even if it doesn’t help his feelings resolve themselves.

I go back and forth about the framing in the first part of this scene. Porsche is still in the forefront for the most part, but Kinn is just as much a focus point as he is despite not being centered in the shot. The height of that upper seat gives Kinn an edge. He chose it on purpose, to be above Porsche. He spreads his arms wide and relaxes, but his legs stay crossed as opposed to Porsche, who spreads his whole body wide. Kinn is still, on some level, making himself a little smaller, drawing in, even as he tries to exude his usual controlled power.

And Kinn is the one to look down at Porsche, to start up a conversation, to open up a path for them to talk casually. He’s the one who, almost immediately after that conversation begins, gets down under the guise of adding more water, just so he can sit next to Porsche, be level with him, close to him, equal to him. He’s the one who asks about Porsche’s little brother.

Again, I go into the dialogue more in my vocal meta, but basically what he’s doing, as the scene goes on, is a form of mirroring. This is a way of echoing people’s speech patterns and mannerisms to make yourself seem more likeable to them. It’s a very natural, unconscious social behavior that we do from a young age. The fact that Kinn does it so much with Porsche is telling, because he doesn’t seem to do it much with anyone else. He’s used to being the one everyone else mirrors, being the star at the center of his solar system.

His body language, when he sits down next to Porsche, enhances this effect. His arms are again spread wide, legs uncrossed now, his head turning again and again to look sideways at Porsche, which in the process of trying to appear unaffected, makes him look even more affected. Porsche meanwhile keeps his arms at his sides or bent at the elbows against the upper seat, and he doesn’t turn his torso toward Kinn to talk.

Essentially, Kinn is trying every trick he knows to find intimacy with Porsche, not even physically but emotionally. And in doing so, he’s giving up some of his power. He’s letting Porsche in, despite his rational instincts telling him not to.

And then this dumbass, so easily pulled into Porsche’s orbit despite Porsche doing literally nothing to encourage him, starts nosing around Porsche’s love life. I’m gonna make fun of him for this forever, because it’s just so hamfisted and juvenile. “You being here doesn’t make your girlfriend angry?” “If you were a girl, would you like a guy like me?”

Absolutely humiliating and I hope when Porsche realizes later on what those questions were about, he teases the fuck out of him for it.

But his approach to Porsche, stupid as it is, shows that despite how confident he is in everything else, he’s really kind of shit at communicating in general, and even worse at flirting. He just can’t help himself. He gravitates toward Porsche. Even after seemingly finding some sense of closure on that kiss in the previous scene, he’s still giving into these little urges to know more about Porsche, to poke around for possibilities.

A little note: I don’t have room for a screenshot, but the first shot of the sauna scene has Kinn peering through a narrow glass window into the sauna. It makes him look smaller, surrounded on all sides by a fuckton of wood. I just think that’s interesting.

A second little note: When Porsche is staring at him, leaning in for a kiss to faceplant on his dick, Kinn doesn’t move away. He’s once again letting Porsche lead, hoping Porsche will make his own feelings clear somehow.

So I’m actually not gonna talk about the Kinn/Vegas pissing contest scene because while Kinn and Porsche are both present, I’m more interested in discussing how their dynamic is shifting just between themselves. Kinn behaves differently in this scene, much more like his usual self, because they’re not alone. If you want to hear a bit of my thoughts on the scene though, I do discuss it in my other two ep 4 metas (linked at the beginning of this post) a little more.

But I do want to talk about the scene above. Once again we see Kinn hiding, eavesdropping on Porsche’s interaction with someone else. We see him through all those little flecks of gold (once again, color theory taking over my brain lol) as he listens to Porsche tell Big off.

The thing is, why is he there? Why does he leave that guy (I’m calling him Angel since we don’t have a name for him yet) alone in his room to follow after Porsche? Is he planning on stopping Porsche, and if so, what for? To ask him if he’s okay with Kinn being gay, to scold him, to say it wasn’t what it looked like, or something else?

I don’t really have an explanation tbh, and maybe that’s intentional on the writers’ part. Maybe Kinn just had a gut reaction to follow Porsche, without knowing why. And by following him, once again he’s playing into that power shift, instinctively chasing after him to find out what he thinks and feels, concealing his presence when it means he can watch Porsche and potentially understand him better.

This scene is more about Porsche and establishing his lack of homophobia than moving Kinn in any particular direction, but it still tells us a little bit about Kinn. He hasn’t managed to smother that need to follow Porsche, to hear his thoughts and feelings.

We then jump from the “hiding in the curtains” scene into a scene with Pete and Porsche where Porsche realizes Kinn was the one he kissed. I think it’s interesting that he asks the question “Can two people who don’t like each other/aren’t a couple kiss?” (Something might be getting lost in translation here, as Porsche seems pretty well-versed in casual sex so it wouldn’t make sense for him to clutch his pearls over a kiss between two people who aren’t in love or a couple. I’m wondering if by “like” they just mean “are attracted to” or if it does connote Feels.)

That little scene sets us up for the shirt-off scene (I genuinely don’t know what else to call it lol). I know this has had a lot of people kind of confused and I personally got some questions about it (@ladyoftheinternet and @biochemjess are the ones I remember but I may be forgetting someone else).

I don’t know if I have any genius insights to offer lol, but I do think we can chalk up some of the tension in the first part of this scene to just straight-up awkwardness. I mean, the last time they saw each other Kinn just about had his dick in someone else’s mouth. I’d be a little awkward too the next time I saw him, no matter which character I was in that situation.

I do think it’s interesting that Kinn, when he first walks in, is very much inhabiting his usual self-assured, charismatic prince persona. He’s not bothered by Porsche knowing he’s gay, and he’s probably trying not to be awkward about what Porsche saw, so there’s a little bit of cover-up happening here too. I think we may be getting so used to him being different around Porsche, softer, more dynamic, less well-controlled, that when we see him stepping back into his typical aura and mannerisms, it feels wrong somehow, like a kind of tension or stiffness. If you compare the Kinn in the first part of this scene to the Kinn in episode 1, there isn’t much of a noticeable difference.

That’s how we know he’s lying through his teeth and with every part of his body.

I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts on what makes him feel the need to make that shift, to try and regain the upper hand with Porsche. I suspect there are a lot of different contributing factors here, such as:

Porsche saw him a little more vulnerable (crucially, without Kinn’s consent), talking about how he has something on his mind, seeing him shy away from kissing Angel.

He’s approaching Porsche now to inform him he’s been traded back to Kinn. We don’t know how that decision happened or what Kinn did to get him back, but I doubt Tankhun was easy to convince. So some of that emotional/mental journey from the bedroom scene to now might simply be missing.

This scene also reminds me a little of earlier by the pool, when Kinn is posturing and trying to seem nonchalant and in control in front of Porsche, all the while reeling inside. Kinn is a little more secure now, but as he said himself to Angel, something’s been bothering him. He’s just gotten better at hiding it from Porsche.

Interestingly, Kinn is once again approaching Porsche, seeking him out, even as he works to exude that usual power and ease. He enters the scene with the intent to treat Porsche like he would anyone else.

But Porsche isn’t on the same wavelength. He greets him casually, not like his boss, slumping and smiling a little self-deprecatingly, making a joke about Kinn always catching him lately. He’s ready to pick up where they left off in the sauna, comfortable and friendly.

When Kinn tells him to stand up in that firm, controlled tone, you can see the way Porsche shifts into a different mode, basically thinking, “Okay, so it’s like that now.”

When he takes his shirt off (after initially saying no, seemingly moreso out of confusion than anything else), he looks around to make sure they’re alone, but I don’t necessarily think he has Kinn making a pass at him on his bingo card in this moment. Taking his shirt off for his boss would look odd no matter what the context. I personally don’t read too much into it, but others may have more thoughts on it.

I want to talk about the body language here though. Porsche is being...shifty. When Kinn reaches out to touch his arm, he goes with it without resistance, but he can’t meet Kinn’s eyes. He’s looking everywhere but at Kinn’s face. Combine that with how his jaw is working, his torso going a little stiff so even as Kinn pulls him forward, he’s still not facing him directly.

He looks pissed off.

He got comfortable with Kinn, friendly with him, and now after remembering their kiss, he has a better idea of why Kinn’s been so off, even if he’s not really sure if what specifically is going through his mind. So with Kinn treating him like this, with distance and emphasis on the power imbalance between them, it confuses him further. If Kinn likes him, why would he treat him like this? If he wants him, why isn’t he doing something about it?

Porsche is waiting for Kinn to tell him what the kiss meant. And Kinn has been waiting for Porsche to tell him the exact same thing.

Porsche is understandably frustrated, and it shows. He keeps his body angled a little away from Kinn, posture loose and almost confrontational, agitated, his expression tense. He wants Kinn to explain himself, and instead all he sees is the Kinn who kidnapped him from Yok’s bar and choked him in front of a crowd of people to prove a point. He knows that Kinn and the one who kissed him on the pier don’t add up. But he also knows he can’t be the one to bring it up, not with how badly it could go for him as Kinn’s employee.

So he asks the only question he can ask: “If it weren’t for Tankhun, would you have taken me back?”

But let’s talk about Kinn. Like in the pool scene, even though he starts off controlled and distant, it’s an effort he can’t maintain for long. Over the course of the scene, he gradually grows more expressive, gets closer to Porsche, faces him directly.

Pay attention to Kinn’s microexpressions as he delivers the line above. Notice how he leans in. How his brows lift and pull together slightly. He’s stepping into Porsche’s space, putting his full focus on Porsche, speaking softly and almost intimately despite what he’s saying.

This isn’t him dismissing Porsche or putting him in his place. This look? Is him begging. When he says, “To me, all of our people are the same,” he’s not telling Porsche this. It’s more like he’s pleading with Porsche, with himself, for this to be true. He’s not holding power in this scene, despite his best efforts. He’s gravitating toward Porsche, his whole body oriented toward Porsche. He’s trying to push Porsche away, but only succeeds in bringing himself closer.

Porsche, meanwhile, is angled away. He’s keeping a distance that Kinn isn’t, acting almost aloof from him. He’s much more serious and muted in this moment than he has been previously, and even though he’s clearly confused over that kiss on the pier and Kinn’s potential attraction to him, he doesn’t understand his feelings yet, not the way Kinn understands (and continues to deny and reject) his. In this scene, Porsche holds the cards, even if he doesn’t fully know it yet. (He won’t know it until Kinn kisses him again.)

Why this all feels incredibly kinky

This post is getting stupidly long, literally longer than a lot of my college papers, so while I want to talk a little more about the ending, the scene-by-scene stops here. (Sadly I couldn’t even get to the Kinn/Tay/Time scene, but there’s some stuff there that could be unpacked too!)

The sex scene has been turned over and analyzed by a lot of brilliant people here, so I don’t think there’s anything I could say that hasn’t already been said much more eloquently. But I do want to end by thinking about how that sex scene provides a sort of breaking point or climax for the shift of power from Kinn to Porsche in this episode.

Another disclaimer: I’ve dabbled, but I wouldn’t consider myself part of the kink community, so while I do want to talk about what these shifting power dynamics mean in terms of Kinn and Porsche’s building D/s dynamic, I’m by no means an expert so I’m trying to stick to what I know. There are some amazing people on here who are way more knowledgeable about this so if you’ve talked about this or know someone who is, please lmk because I want to read aaaaall the meta on this. @lutawolf has some incredible insights about the D/s dynamic here, and I’m sure there are others I haven’t seen yet. And if there’s anything you see below that is incorrect or off-base, please reply or DM me and I’d be more than happy to delete/edit whatever it is.

It’s pretty apparent that Kinn and Porsche have the beginnings of a D/s dynamic unfolding between them. Kinn is constantly trying to put Porsche in his place, and Porsche is constantly acting out in ways to catch Kinn’s eye and keep his attention. The manhandling in the shirt-off scene, Porsche’s persistent needling about Kinn trading him away, and of course the sex scene itself, where Porsche basks in Kinn’s attention on him, soaking up all those touches and visibly craving that intimacy with Kinn. All of that is giving very kinky vibes and I’m sure it’ll only get more obvious as we go on.

So it might be a fair assumption to make, when I talk so much in this post about how Porsche is the one with the power in this ep, how he’s taking the lead in their relationship while Kinn follows, that I’m rejecting/downplaying that D/s dynamic or even trying to flip it. But I’m actually saying (or at least trying to say) the opposite.

Power in D/s is extremely layered and complicated. It’s not just about who’s in control of a scene or who takes the tangible lead or who’s on top or who’s giving orders etc etc etc. Power is ultimately, I would argue, in the submissive’s hands for the simple reason that they are the one consenting and submitting to control, and that consent can be withdrawn at any time. It’s a power exchange, yes, and of course has to be mutually consensual, but a good Dom sees control as a gift rather than a right, and understands the value of the trust and vulnerability being given to them. They pay attention to the sub’s needs (physical, emotional, mental) and base their actions around ensuring those needs are meet. It’s a big part of why submission can be so empowering, because at its core it means willingly surrendering control to someone else.

That’s all to say that while Porsche may hold more power in this episode and Kinn less, it’s a part of that early, unspoken negotiation of boundaries. Kinn doesn’t want to overstep. He’s giving up some of his power to Porsche, albeit not entirely realizing it, because he wants Porsche to set his limits, to determine where they go after that kiss. Kinn is already so confused by his own feelings, so out of his depth, that if he’s going to move forward, he needs Porsche to tell him how to do that.

It’s really…he’s just a really good Dom imo. (Or will be when he fully gets his shit together.) However you feel about that scene at the end, you can tell that Kinn is trying very hard to respect Porsche’s boundaries. He immediately withdraws his hands when Porsche slaps him away. He gives Porsche space while trying to take care of him because even if Porsche is flirting and openly making a pass at him, he has no way of knowing if it’s just because of the drug in his system or if it’s something he actually wants. He only gives in after Porsche brings up their kiss, because that’s what he’s been trying to ask for the entire episode. He realizes that Porsche is asking him for this fully aware of what they did, fully aware that it’s why Kinn’s been acting so strangely, and fully aware, finally, that he is the one holding all the cards right now.

And Kinn caves.

That’s what the entire episode has been building up to through this shifting power dynamic: Kinn being vulnerable, having his weak points poked at literally and figuratively. In this scene, he lets go, taking back some of his power just by virtue of being honest with himself and with Porsche for the first time.

I don’t think this shift will last long. I think, especially as we get into episode 5, that power is going to snap back hard in Kinn’s direction as he tries to regain control of his feelings and push Porsche away. I wouldn’t be surprised if what Porsche goes through in the next episode looks a lot like a prolonged, brutal subdrop, exacerbated by the trauma of what Vegas did.

Again, I’d love to read some more meta on this from people in the kink community, and if you do see anything above that is wrong/needs clarification, please let me know.

***

Okay, I really think I’ve rambled on WAY too long at this point. This is an absolute monster of a post that totally got away from me and I hope the other episodes are a little less interesting because the amount of thoughts I have about episode 4 is kind of bananas. Please feel free to add your thoughts because I know there’s still SO much stuff I missed and I’d love to hear everyone’s interpretations of what went down (the meta this week has been crazy and yet somehow I still need more 😭).

#kinnporsche #meta #HOW did I write that many words this is so dumb

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