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booksandabeer · 1 year

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Hey,

I love your blog and I love how much work you put in when someone ask you to recommend fics for them, you’re truly beyond AMAZING! Just getting that out of the way.

And now, can you please tell me your favourite underrated stucky fics. I know this might be too big of an ask because there are SO MANY out there, so just tell me a few if you don’t mind.

Thank you so much ❤️

Hello Stranger!

Thank you for the ask and your very kind words! ❤ It's so nice to hear that people like my rec posts because they really do take a surprisingly large amount of time to put together. Anyway, I'm not complaining & this is a lot of fun for me, so on to the recs!

I struggled a bit with how to define "underrated" and I think everybody has their own ideas of what exactly that means. Also, the Stucky ship has been around for more than a decade (even longer if you count the comics), so creative output and reader interest will fluctuate and ultimately decline over time. A Stucky fic posted after 2019--no matter how insanely good it is--will never do the numbers it would have done in the Golden Age of 2014-2018. So, for the purpose of this list, a fic written in 2016 with 15K hits or less does qualify as underrated, while a fic posted in 2021 with 10-15K would not.

Also, as always, this list is by no means an exhaustive one.

the wrote and the writ by declanlynchsrack | G, 10K

Author's summary: Bucky’s crying before he’s off the boat and he’s the least surprised out of anyone to realize it.

He’s always been a softie, a leaky faucet, and the war hasn’t changed that, so he doesn’t know why the sob that smacks him startles him bad enough that he grips the strap of his bag doubly hard, ready to swing it around like a battering ram, ready to find that cloying, invisible enemy. He’s not being ambushed, on his belly in the muck and camellias, cypress hanging low, moonlight casting an eerie smile upon Lake Como like it’s enjoying the hell out of muffled gunshots and the wet grunt of lifeblood spattering onto the undergrowth.

That’s done. He’s safe.

An AU in which Bucky--minus one arm--comes back from the war and Steve never got to go, and never became Captain America. A scrappy little story that is at once full of emotion and yet completely unsentimental. This story socked me on the jaw, tackled me to the ground, and then sat on me while twisting, twisting, twisting my arm behind my back. It also has one of my favorite descriptions of the SteveBucky dynamic I've ever read: "They’re all roughed up, the two of em, a pair of old marble statues weathered by time and harsh touches, but they know each other’s chinks and foibles and can side-step them with grace while still treating the other about as delicately as they’d handle a sack of potatoes." !!! If you prefer, you can also listen to it here: [Podfic] the wrote and the writ by quietnight

Hollywoodland by romanticalgirl | E, 69K

Author's summary: In 1930s Hollywood, the world is run on the studio system. Stars are told who to date, what to wear, what to say, and how to look pretty doing it. The only way you can really do what you want is if you don't get caught.

Steve's dating Peggy, which works out because she's married to Sam, even though it's not legal. But it's the perfect cover for the fact that Steve's gay. He's managing just fine skirting the system to find companionship, but then he meets James Barnes and life gets a lot more complicated.

If you know anything about me and my love for Golden Age Hollywood, then you won't be surprised that this pushes all of my buttons. This is loosely inspired by the real life relationship of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott (the exact nature of which we will probably never know, but let's just say it was most likely not strictly platonic). Is the world the author created here entirely realistic? No--and it's not intended to be. While it is indeed rooted in many of the horrible realities that queer people and POC have faced in the past (and are still facing today), it's a slightly kinder version of it that allows for a hopeful, if not a strictly happy ending in the traditional sense. A sumptious story with gorgeous art.

make progress together by frankoceansmoonriver | E, 24K

Author's summary: He feels like Steve’s mistress. He feels hollowed out. He feels like a jammed gun still trying to go off. When he’s not with Steve he convinces himself he’s ruining Steve’s life, and though he tries, he’s too selfish to stop. When he’s with Steve, he’d fight God himself to keep it, this tangible perfection that makes him drunk and anchors him in ways he did not know existed.

Or, the one where they both survived the war, Bucky loves Steve now, has loved Steve since he was fifteen, and the year is 1945.

This is a story that I have reread many, many times because it is the perfect wish fulfillment fic for me. It's the slightly unrealistic, or one could also say: optimistic version of what I imagine would have happened had Steve and Bucky both survived the war. That's not to say that this fic doesn't have its very angsty moments, but ultimately, this is a story about love and hope triumphing in the face of adversity, and sometimes you just want to see good things happen to good people. I know some readers may find the formatting and the non-linear structure challenging, but this is a beautiful story and I really urge you all to give it a try!

I'll Light Your Way Home series by BeaArthurPendragon | M-E, 69K, 5 parts

Author's summary: Two lost Vietnam vets find each other in a Hell's Kitchen gay bar one hot September night. This is how they find their way home.

A pattern emerges! Can you tell I'm really into (No Powers) AUs set in the early to mid 20th century? Well, here's another one, but we're actually moving into second half of the century, specifically to 1969, for this one! Bea is quite possibly my favorite Stucky writer and I have recommended her stories many times to anybody who will listen to me. It's debatable whether or not she actually counts as "underrated", I guess, but it is my personal opinion that her fics should have ten times the kudos/comments/hits they do and that she deserves to be up there with the "big names". This story in particular just completely won over my heart with its gorgeous (but not ostentatious) writing, its confident and mature characterizations, and great eye for historical detail. I *cannot* recommend her fics enough. /unabashed fangirl moment over.

The Northern Lights by ThisChairIsMyHomeNow | M, 21K

Author's summary: “I can’t feel my face,” Steve shivers.

“I can’t feel my left arm,” Bucky says, deadpan. Steve barks out a laugh. It’s all white puffs of vapor in the chilly air.

“This the spot?”

“Nah,” Bucky pants, breath ragged from the long ascent up a mountain. “Almost there.”

A post-CW canon-divergent story that the author jokingly describes in their author's note as "gay superhero reluctantly gets therapy in the jungles of Wakanda, then goes on a covert road trip." And yes, maybe I wouldn't put it quite so flippantly myself, but it's not... untrue. And yet there is so much more depth to it. If you like a Bucky who takes back his life, his identity, and his future on his own terms, a Steve who isn't reduced to being his recovery prop but instead gets to shine in all his glorious, intense, stubborn Steve-ness, and a Sam & a Natasha who aren't just window dressing for the SteveandBucky-Show, this is for you! Cap Quartet Road Trip where all four members get their moment to shine--what are you waiting for?

Misplaced Pencils | T, 13K & and our words would take us 'round the world | T, 13K by Somanywords

Author's summary:

Steve and drawing throughout the years. Also Bucky.

Bucky is two years old when he learns to talk.

I've spent a good 30 minutes debating with myself which one of these two I should include here, and then I just threw up my hands and said "why not both? Both is good!" So here they are, two beautifully written mid-length full-arc (childhood to sometime past TWS, where they diverge from canon) fics that I love both equally. These are standalone stories and are not set in the same universe, but they do read and feel like companion pieces to each other because both stories are told through the lense of Steve and Bucky's respective artistic sensibilities and how they use their art as a framework to make sense of the world. Misplaced Pencils gives you artist Steve who, from a very young age on, has always tried to understand the world by taking it apart into its visual components & falling back on a fixed set of questions that help him to categorize and compartmentalize the people he encounters and the emotions he feels for them (just like he will later do in other areas of his life). Only that there is of course one person who's always refused to fit neatly into just one of his categories. and our worlds... on the other hand, gives you storyteller Bucky who's constantly talking, singing, writing. Who, in the end, can't help himself but narrate even his own fall and who is later delightfully affronted by his own narrative arc in a "if I had been the one in charge, I would've written it better!" way. Both of these stories are very dear to my heart and they deserve a million more hits.

+ Bonus!

Fics that definitely could/should be on this list but that I've recced before:

You are here by dharmashark

A Hard Rain's a-Gonna Fall by DisraeliGears

Prisoner One by ancientreader

As Time Goes By by Trouble_With_The_Snap

new topography series by brideofquiet

What I'm Looking For series by TessaBennet

Welcome Home, Son series by BeaArthurPendragon

I'm slowly working my way through my rec asks, so please be patient with me! Next up: Road Trip fics!

#stucky #stucky fic rec #stevebucky #stevebucky fic rec #steve x bucky #steve x bucky fic rec #stucky rec list #stucky fic recs #stucky fanfic recs #stucky fic #rec list #asks #my recs

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sapphicpenguin · 17 days

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is sticky compelling enough to watch the Marvel movies for the first time in 2024AD? apologies if this is a hammer meeting hornets nest question lol

I did not forget you I promise! I wanted to answer this after I had shown The Winter Soldier to my boyfriend (who hasn't seen early marvel movies) so I could have evidence, but then it took us a week to get to. I now have a more expert opinion, though. No hornets nests I don't think. Also this is all my opinion no one sue me.

Okay so first of all, there are like 20-something marvel movies and the majority of them are not worth watching unless you have a emotional attachment to someone involved, you're nostalgic, or are researching for fanfiction. I don't know your tastes exactly but I'm not condemning you to hours of movies unless you know for sure they're what you want lol. (No judgement though if they end up being your favorites, to be clear.) I like the Iron Man movies, the first Thor is hilarious, the first Avengers is fun, Guardians of the Galaxy is fun if you can stand watching Chris Pratt, but like. you're fine without all of it. There are better things happening in the world.

I think Steve/Bucky is an awesome ship, and I love their characterization in the early movies. The fanfiction for that ship is better than any other, hands down. One of my favorite poems was written about them. There are full metafictions analyzing fake historical books written in their universe. It's like nothing I've ever seen. Experiencing the MCU has totally been worth it for me, just for that. If you want to explore them and the fic, I would say the bare minimum would be the first two Captain Americas.

The First Avenger (#1) is a backstory for Steve and Bucky and mostly takes place during WW2. You don't have to have watched any other movies, and I think it's quite enjoyable. Steve has a straight romance in it, which did result in a lot of gay shippers sidelining/hating the main female character, which is a shame because she's awesome! Fans need to either agree to disagree but also maybe invite some polyamory into their shipping. Anyway. Awesome intro to them--not gonna win an award, but great soundtrack, great characters, solid story. There's some propaganda (although a lot of it is self-aware and the main characters comment on it?) and there's some cheesy comic book fighting, but honestly I have fun with it.

The Winter Soldier (#2) is (as you probably know) THE Stucky movie. Even saying that is kinda spoiling it, but ah well. Now there are a few movies that happen in between, but I'm gonna say read a Wikipedia summary of the first Avengers (2012) and you're good to go. You just have to know that aliens attacked New York, and that Steve's been hanging out in the future with other superheros. (If you end up wanting to read iconic 2012-13 Avengers fic where they're all a found family, maybe watch Avengers 1 so you can get the vibes. That's a good reason.) TWS is a good ass movie. Genuinely. It's got political thriller vibes and it has the best character dynamics in any Marvel movie--especially for Black Widow/Natasha. Soundtrack is good, fight choreography is at its best, everyone's snarky and tender, Sebastian Stan puts his whole pussy into making puppy dog eyes while shooting people--it's the Stucky thesis statement, and it's required reading for the fanfiction.

The only other movie that is interesting Steve/Bucky-wise is Civil War (#3)--but that one functions more as an Avengers movie, and you would need to watch the preceding movies. It hinges on the fact that Steve would do anything for Bucky, which I enjoy watching, but I can't say it's worth it if you don't care about any of the other characters. Just know that Steve would defy all governments for his boyfriend. That's the thesis.

The thing to know going forward from TWS: it goes downhill, and Steve's character is destroyed. Not right away, there are some good shenanigans, but (spoiler warning) Avengers Endgame is one of the worst things I've ever watched and Steve's ending destroys his character and removes the autonomy from one of their best female characters, as well as spitting in the face of Bucky and their relationship (even platonically it's still a betrayal). If you get into it and want to keep going, I just need you to know this. I need you to know that they're not gonna give you anything better than what you've seen. Their AO3 tag has more than enough for a lifetime. You'll be fine.

As a preacher of the Stucky gospel, I say watch at least two fun movies so you can be witness to one of the greatest ships of this generation. It's only like 4 hours of your life. It'll be educational at the very least.

Okay thank you for asking <3<3<3 Let me know if you end up getting into it! And feel free to ask for fic recs if you end up being interested!

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musette22 · 2 years

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i don't know much about comics but people who read comics were saying in the quotes of that tweet that people shipping them are nasty because of that situation, i don't know but that's keeping me from shipping them in comics because I think that even ed's Bucky/tws is a little different from the mcu but again i don't have the full knowledge, this is me just paraphrasing what I've read from my comic moots on twitter :/ i kinda wish i could enjoy it though or as i said, seen it in the mcu, it'd have been cute <3 at least we will always have fanfiction where we've had that scene a million times *-*

Love, don't let bitter, nasty or uninformed twitter people curb your enjoyment or enthusiasm! I promise you there's nothing wrong with shipping Stucky in the new comics. New Bucky is like a completely different chacter from the old one.

Old comics Bucky:

New comics Bucky:

Have a read of this article if you'd like to know more!

#stucky #bucky barnes #minnie answers

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iamjackstitanicbreath · 4 months

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Favs of '23: Marvel:

10/10. That's it. That's the rating. Give it a Michelin or five if I could. My standards can't get higher now. I think this might be the best I've ever read. Winter Soldier origin story. No ships like Stucky or anything. Very dark, very cold, very very real. It's really a talent to be able to write a whole story in five chapters.

"Between the fall and the monsters, the Winter Soldier is in orbit. This is what happens in the Red Room. These are the people who make him what and who he becomes.

Inspired by comics canon, in particular Ed Brubaker's Captain America issue 11, which included pages from the Winter Soldier file, and far too many Cold War books. Because HYDRA in the movie uses the Winter Soldier as a blunt instrument, and blunt instruments do not become legends."

This could also be a 10/10 on its own but I put it in the same list as the first one so I have to lower it by a notch or two. It's like putting Joaquin Phoenix and Brad Pitt in the same room and labelling it 'Greatest Actors'. They're great, but on different levels. Anyway, this one's got amazing dialogue. Very in character. It's entertaining, but it's also a tragic comedy one-shot. It's fun and has a nice ending. For you Irondad and Spiderson lovers ig. But it's good. Well written. Superficially hilarious, but the actual message is kinda depressing but deep. Sums up Peter's college life pretty well if Tony were in the picture. It's the Goldilocks ratio of Raimi's Spider-Man, TASM, and MCU Spidey.

9/10. I read it a while ago, so I don't have much to say, but the writing is just beautiful. TW: relationship abuse. Skip Westcott.

But it's amazingly written and it's seen through the eyes of Steve. Like author's a genius with words. Check out their Batman stuff too 'cause it's just so so good. Good stuff. Like lick your fingers after eating kind of good.

Anyways, moving on.

Star Wars

9/10. Pretty sure everyone's read this one by now but same author, Beth Winter, so I had to give an honourable mention. I remember thoroughly enjoying this one and wishing we got to see more engineer Darth Vader and corporate environment in the Galactic Empire with Vader at the head 'cause I mostly only these kinds of stories in the comics and even then, not enough. I mean, for chrissake, it's a fundamental aspect of his character. I've seen some other ones with like Vader finding Luke through some sort of design submission or email and Luke's an aspiring Engineer from Tatooine but I'd give them like a 4/10. I have a very picky and very particular standard for writing though, and Beth Winter just writes very well. Same for the Gruoch fellow. I know I liked this one the most of all the Star Wars fics, but nothing hits the same as a Marvel Cold War fic so that's remaining at the top.

7/10. Started off so so so so good. Would've given a 10/10 if not for the ending. It's a series. Read both parts. Very very good. It's very beautifully written and it takes a very unique inspiration from the book A Secret Garden. It was a really clever combination and What If? so I love it. But I'm not the biggest fan of that abrupt ending. Anyways, SPOILERS AHEAD:

I feel like giving a character the possibility of redemption throughout and showing the more humane side and still at the very end judging them as too evil to live? Idk, I mean, it feels sudden. Like you feel me? The story was continuously leading to the possibility of a happy ending or at least something along the lines of a compromise. And then suddenly author basically said "actually Vader's an unredeemable piece of shit, so let's just kill him off. I know I made it seem like he had a good side and that there was a future where he could be a very good parent, but I changed my mind." Anyways, it's fanfiction. Can't be too critical. Nobody's getting paid to write this stuff so I'm not going to bash it too much for inconsistency, but it did feel like the story was desperately trying to show at first that the situation isn't so black and white, but then resorted to viewing it through a black and white lens at the end. Went from no such thing as "absolutes" to well, absolutes.

Ok, I'm done rambling. You get the picture. Next!

Harry Potter

Heed the warnings. 8/10. The writing's very good and the plot hooks you in immediately. But heed the warnings. Not for the faint of heart ig. Also covers sensitive topics. I'm kinda iffy about putting this on the same list as a Beth WInter fic but maybe I'm being overdramatic. It's not artsy is what I mean to say. Author didn't intend for it so come across as a poem. But the writing's still very very good and the plot is even better. UNFINISHED. I'm angrily waiting for an update. Like stalk author's tumblr waiting. Maybe that's why I'm being so petty with the rating and review.

Code Geass

Anything by this author:

Favorites are The Fool Ascendant and The House of Usher. 10/10, both. Haven't read all of them, but also, writing style is very artsy. Character and dynamic studies mostly, and snippets of things we didn't see in canon.

#fanfiction #ao3 fanfic #star wars #marvel #spiderman #code geass #harry potter

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veltana · 1 year

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As always, thanks to @smowkie for tagging me ❤️

Three ships: Damn... I mean I'm serious weak for Stucky, friends to lovers is like my favorite trope!

So Sheith also ofc.

But I'm happy Bucky and Natasha are a couple in the comics so I guess that will be my third!

First ever ship: Sasuke/Naruto from Naruto, still get this kind of nostalgic feeling when I see art and fics about them.

Last song: Savage Garden - I want you

Last movie: The Notebook (cried like a bitch as usual even though I've seen it like ten times and I know exactly how it ends)

Currently reading: Terms and Conditions by Lauren Asher

Currently watching: Rick and Morty season 6

Currently craving: Gummy bears for some damn reason and I can't eat them cause they contain gelatin so I've been stuck on this for days. I'm not even sure the taste I'm craving is from gummy bears, but my brain is telling me it's gummy bears that I need!

Don't have anyone to tag but if you wanna do it feel free to grab it 😄

#personal #tag thingy

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daggerlove · 2 years

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The online fretting at them not discussing anything related to S2 is making me a little sad. Nobody knows what's going to happen next season, but I the creative team 100% knows that the Twitter teens are a minority. A sucky minority, sure, but a minority. If Marvel listened to Twitter stans, Steve and Bucky would be canon and Wanda would have been written out 3 movies ago lol

Under read more bc this got too long, sorry.

Yeah, I'm sorry but the doom and gloom discourse that happened yesterday's so ridiculous. I worked 11 hours yesterday, was exhausted beyond words, still excited for the panel even though I was aware we're likely not getting anything new bc that's how Marvel rolls and then to see people freaking out over something so meaningless was both confusing and annoying.

I thought it was pretty obvious the RTS twitter was posting only a few quick bits and pieces from an overall 1+ hour long panel. And people completely lost their shit over the lack of content and thought that short thread was it, when in fact...there's so much more stuff and we're getting it soon.

People freaked out over Sophia only answering two questions in that thread, but then it was later revealed she was actively engaging with conversation the entire time and she wasn't ignored at all.

People freaked out bc apparently they didn't talk about Sylki and it's all doom now, but then it turned out they actually did talk about the ship lol

So...I truly don't get some ppl sometimes.

The event in itself focused mostly on writing, casting, random bts stuff, y'kno, pretty much the same old thing. I've said it before on Twitter but I'm still waiting for someone to mention He Who Remains/Kang or talk about that character in these new interviews, but it's unlikely to happen until promo for S2 and/or Quantumania starts. They basically haven't mentioned him at all in months. And he and the mere implications of his character and are enormous and huge deal for both Marvel and the show and no one's discussing him in interviews. Does that mean the character is dropped, erased, gone?

Like, it's pretty obvious that there's a clear set of stuff they're allowed to say at these interviews. The fact that they're not even discussing their own characters that much should be a clear sign that there's no deeper meaning to this, other than studio mandates, to keep stuff as vague as possible and focus on other things.

We won't learn new important things about season 2 at these events. We will learn that through casting, extras casting, bts info, potential pap photos and eventually whatever they decide to show us via promo footage.

And yeah, the crew definitely knows twitter is a minority lol. Even Eric called it an echo chamber months ago.

It's amusing that they think Marvel listens to what stans have to say because...nothing could be farther from the truth.

If Marvel listened to stans Stucky and all similar popular fanon ships would be canon. Steve's ending would be different. Tony wouldn't have died. Loki wouldn't have died. Natasha wouldn't have died. Characters would have vastly different arcs.

I remember people disliked Ragnarok bc they changed Loki and Thor's characters too much and they made petitions, hate tagged Taika, argued with fans who loved Ragnarok and thought it was great and what did Marvel do? Instead of catering to the demands of people who wanted Loki and Thor to revert back to their old personalities, they did the exact opposite and made sure Loki and Thor got stuck with that characterization for good, because it worked, the general fans and the public loved it.

Marvel caters sometimes by giving the fans some ripped-straight-from-comics refs or quotes, "avengers assemble" and similar stuff but catering to them on a larger level, one that affects the plot and the project's overall story? lol no

#people seriously need to chill #ask #sylki

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nightsofthefilms · 3 years

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Why I Love Stony!

In my experience of fandom, fandom pairings, shipping culture, etc. None so far has affected me with their connection, their interest by many others, and the overall outpour of content, as Stony (Steve Rogers/Tony Stark).

That being fics, fan-art, edits, or just manips. The love that the fandom has for the two, and other creators, is just wholesome and beautiful!

Stony has always intrigued me as a lover of Marvel. More or so, astounded me the number of times that these two have shown a deep care and love for one another. That it surprises me that Marvel still hasn't made them canon.

There are various ways they could've, and it's a bit frustrating some of the fics that I've read, that are good and seem like logical solutions. But maybe one day they'll be canon, and it'll be glorious!

Anyways, continuing. I'll try to quit pining. 🙄

I've said this before, and it's just how I've seen it. That, many other pairings, like Stucky or IronStrange (No hate, again just my opinion!😳🥺) have always felt, to me, were created by the addictive nature of Head-Canon Ships.

Even more despairing, these ships were simply made by one thing in common: Hate towards Stony. Which is surprising, to say the least. Considering the fandom world is, and should be, about Love, not Hate!

Now before everyone comes for me 👀, it is the sad truth. Many pairings suffer from this. Fans of ships (Like Stucky) have chastised and begged for them to become canon. With no real reason, other than that their childhood friends, and they share some sexual tension.

And Stony is no different when it comes to this problem. But... they also are.

Let me Explain: Steve and Tony have moments here and there where they share some belligerent sexual tension, and yes, they have a strong friendship. So they don't seem that different from Stucky, right?

Furthermore, Stucky fans, who were originally Stony, had left the fandom after the MCU's portrayal of the characters were antagonistic. But here's the thing. If you look beyond the surface level of their arguments, you'll see the care there. And to Stony fans, you'll see the love there. Their relationship/friendship is layered, and has depth. It's not simplistic like most MCU pairings.

Stucky fans argue that Steve and Bucky's romantic relationship, comes from their time back in the '40s, and how Steve moved literal heaven and earth, to protect Bucky. In Cap's trilogy, I might add.

So, they do have a point. And they have a bit of evidence. Yet, that's it. They have nothing else to prove Stucky's existence.

Sure they could go and find some more evidence/content from the comics or other types of media. But it's almost pointless, as the relationship they share in the MCU, is not the same everywhere else. Mainly Because Steve's relationship with Tony is front and center, in all the others. Steve and Tony's friendship is a lot more stronger than Steve and Bucky's, anywhere besides the MCU.

Now Stony still had their moments. Like the wood-chopping scene in Age of Ultron, or Tony commenting about Steve's rear-end in Endgame, etc.

But that's pale in comparison to the quips, and moments they have with each other in the comics. Or any other media, like Avengers Assemble ("Arsenal isn't your father's greatest creation. You Are!" - Steve to Tony), Avengers Academy (Where Steve and Tony actually go on a study date), or Square Enix's: Marvel's Avengers (Where Tony completely becomes lost without Steve. So much so, that he keeps a jacket of Steve's, hanging in his room.).

Stony goes beyond the MCU and always has. No matter what media you look at, Stony shows up someway, somehow.

So I don't consider Stony head-canon, if even Marvel knows about them. Hell, if anything, the actors clearly ship the two as well. I mean, have y'all seen RDJ's Facebook?!

Regardless though, Stony has always felt like the most persistent in my head. I don't know why it has. It's just one day... they clicked. I'd could go on and on, as to why I think Stony is superior. But I'm pretty sure I already have.

And this new project, that'll be given to you guys soon, is a product of my admiration for the ship. It was once a fic on ao3, but I've since deleted it, as it was going nowhere. But I've gained some ideas, and it feels cohesive and strong!

And so, I hope you guys are excited and thrilled when I give you: The SuperHusbands!

#stevetony #stony #marvel’s avengers #marvel #ma stony #avengers assemble #ship: stony #Spotify

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thesharondefenseleague · 3 years

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To that anon tbh Sharon I don't think is uniquely unpopular by fandom standards. Maybe by MCU standards but not fandom in gen standards. Or at least its not that weird that she is.

Ship wars and just being bitter that the ship that became canon wasn't your ship and throwing salt at that ship was just always a thing. Especially if the fandom for the non canon ship thought they had a shot of being canon. See any fandom with a love triangle in the story ever.

Now its more the norm to pretend that its something deep. That the other ship is morally repugnant and you aren't just being petty af. When Sharon was the most unpopular it was still kinda the norm to just be openly petty but justifying your saltiness was becoming more the norm. Hence you'd get arguments like Sharon was a no homo and Sharon was abusive. But also just people just actively shitting on her for no reason at all apart from the fact they didnt like her not even trying to justify it.

Which again is nothing all that new. What makes it stand out imo are a few reasons.

1. Social Media being integrated- before the social media spread for fandom ships would be more diverse. There would be communities for specific ships or fiction archives and it was easy to avoid ships you didn't like. Sure if your ship was involved in a major shipping war or people were talking trash about it you could still know but the exposure to the drama wasn't always inevitable. But now if fans of more popular ships occasionally shit on your far less popular ship even if its only like 5 percent of the fans of the more popular ship that outnumbers your entire fandom. So you get drowned out for amount of content and then when anyone looks for content for the unpopular ship they mostly get negativity and its very hard to avoid.

2. MCU being such a huge fandom. Not marvel comic characters specifically the MCU and Steve being kinda a fandom bycycle. There was a good chance if you were in this fandom you had a favorite Steve ship and if you were a MCU fan primarily not a comics fan ( which let's be honest many were during hieght of Sharon drama) then that ship probably wasn't Sharon. I know in general people like to say it was primarily Stucky and Steggy fans throwing shade. But that was mostly because those were two of the biggest ships with Steve. Other Steve shippers did too. It was just that there were just less of them so it seemed like it was just Stucky or Steggy. For a while it was just a thing to shit on Sharon for not just Stucky or Steggy fans but like it was a MCU fandom thing. And the reason for this is-

3. The lack of MCU Sharon and Steve x Sharon fans. There were a few comic Sharon and SteveSharon fans. But not MCU ones because Natasha and Peggy had taken alot of comic Sharons moments and character. It was really common to see arguments like oh I love comic Sharon but fuck MCU Sharon. Why she even exist?

Pretty much all canon ships got hate. But it imo was less because they still had quite a few fans it was less cool to shit on it you got more push back. And it didnt always reflect on the characters. BruceNat was incredibly unpopular but Bruce and Natasha didnt become incredibly unpopular as a result. Sure they had haters but theyd already been established and had fans of their own ( especially Natasha). While others happened early enough and got development so the relationship got fans like PepperTony. There was hate but there was more push back for shitting on them and more people spreading love for them so the negativity wasn't drowning out the good.

But MCU Sharon and MCU SteveSharon could more easily be treated as a universal dislike by the whole fandom. Even people who didnt really care about Steve ships would joke about SteveSharon being shitty. It was just like the thing to do.

This changed when calling out mysogny in fandom became more mainstream. However those 3 reasons especially 1 and 3 remain the same except for characters too not just ships. Its hard to avoid what you dont like in a fandom on websites like Tiktok Tumblr and Twitter ( especially Tiktok) . So if negative opinions of a character are popular it becomes harder to avoid.

And MCU Sharon is still not that popular due to how MCU handling her.

I cant even say its just a ship thing anymore the vitriol continues despite her not being in any ship nor is it indicated she will be with any major character in the future. And still so many people act like they will act like they will break into hives at just the prospect of her with Bucky or Sam.

Its not just a ew girl cooties thing these same people will love the idea of Bucky with Sams sister or Yelena or someone in the Dora Milaje. Sam doesn't even have that many popular ships it basically just Bucky rn but ive seen people who dont even like this ship just see it as a friendship and have no other ships for Sam but want him to have a love interest down the line turn up their noses at SharonSam.

I will say things are definetly better than the post CW era Sharon is less the MCU fandom punching bag though she still doesnt have that much love. However more people are critiquing the handling of her character instead of being frustrated at her existence. So while I do fully believe she more than any other character could become the fandom punching bag again i dont think it will be as bad as it was in the past.

Oh, it will never be as bad as it was in 2016. There was a Sharon RP blog that one day cleared out all the hate she got in her inbox. Absolutely wretched shit was sent to her, and you could feel the exhaustion in her clearing them out. And she posted it to remind everyone that hey, liking a character doesn't equal sending fucking death threats to a person.

But the problem is the shit that the character and the fans AND THE FUCKING ACTRESS got were not only seen by Marvel, they reacted in the worst way possible. They just justified fans' actions. So while it's not the worst it has been, jesus they could have done anything but that in response.

~Mod R

#i have to look and see if i still have it #95% sure i saved a lot of the responses on my computer #EDIT: found them in a word doc where i copied and pasted half of them and yeah they’re fucking awful

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evanstanbot · 5 years

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tbh i don't get why you stucky just started your disappointment NOW, since his character writing already deteriorate in civil war. what you said about steve, "move on, fight the good fight, never give up on anyone" is gone already - he's written as a man who indulge in his past, which is totally okay. y'll don't complain about it in civil war only because it centers your fav boy and fav ship, but when he went to another his past - Peggy y'll get FURIOUS. Isn't that double standard?

Listen anon you sent me a hate message, but I’ve got time. Now sit back while I go into details. fyi, this is gonna be LONG. Anything for my Steve. I didn’t survive and throw hands at people in 2016 too to see this bs lol. I didn’t think I’d see the CW discourse in 2019 but here we are…

First of all, I’ll need you to understand that in storytelling (or in this case a character’s narrative), the character’s personal feelings (faith, love, hate, etc.) and said character’s moral rights are NOT mutually exclusive… because even in real life, we all have to balance out our personal feelings and what’s plausible. We have to find the balance between following our heart and following our brain.

 But, we’re talking about heroes here—they’re obliged to do the morally correct thing. However, good writing and a good character comes about when the character can balance out these traits (feelings and thoughts), just like we do in real life, and still end up doing the right thing. Sometimes it’s perfectly balanced: half-and-half. But, it doesn’t always have to be like that; it just has to balanced in some manner. These heroes are people we’re supposed to look up to and seeing them battle against their feelings and still choose the morally correct thing is what makes a hero a hero. 

Let’s list a few examples throughout Steve’s arcs, shall we? under the cut..

CA:TFA

* Steve initially set out to walk to Austria in order to save Bucky, his best friend, even though he wasn’t sure if Bucky was alive or not. That’s when his feelings and morals come in play. He chose his feelings, first. But, that’s okay. He’s still developing. But then, he checked in with Pegs to see if he was right. “You told me you thought I was meant for more than this. Did you mean that?”

* When Bucky “died,” his morals were bounded by guilt. That’s when Peggy came in to warn him to be a person of reason (at that moment, especially), to tell him to move on, and that they have a war to win. And so, he did. Yet, he chose both his feelings and his morals here. “I don’t wanna kill anyone” became “I won’t stop until all of HYDRA are killed or captured.” His morals are still right, but his feelings of guilt and anger encouraged them. feelings and morals, balanced.

CA:TWS

* He told to Pegs that half the reason why he’s working with SHIELD is because she built it. You see the “half” there? Half of the reason is because of his faith and respect for Peggy; the other half is because it’s the right thing to do; SHIELD was helping people… (or so he thought of course). perfectly balanced.

* Then, he took down shield. It broke him when he found out about Bucky being brainwashed and turning into The Winter Soldier. He probably wanted to kill all of HYDRA again for hurting his friend. But, once more, he did the right thing. Steve could’ve just found and taken down HYDRA and ignore the infestation of SHIELD. He could’ve gotten Bucky back that way and been done with it, but he knew better. “How many paid the price?… SHIELD, HYDRA, it all goes.” That’s why TWS Steve is the best Steve. It shows that he’s a tactician: he observed and observed and observed throughout the film. He saw what was happening around him and made a decision based on that (his brain, his logic). And that decision combined with his own feelings (his heart) about Bucky made for the deadly destruction of SHIELD. “The price of freedom is high. It always has been, but it’s a price I’m willing to pay. And if I’m the only one, then so be it. But I’m willing to bet I’m not.” He did what’s right, but also let his own feelings take over and have a say. (Read: He couldn’t hurt Bucky.) He stopped Bucky until he completed his mission, but after that, he dropped his shield for him; he let his heart take over once his morals were satisfied. still balanced.

CA:CW

* First, the accords. Steve, from the beginning, NEVER agreed to the accords—far before Bucky came into the picture. There. I said it. When Ross was talking about the accords, Steve knew he couldn’t trust them. He was let down by the government twice already. He set his mind on not signing it right then and there. Then, after the funeral, Nat came up to confront him about his decision and he still stuck by it. Notice that he was encouraged by Sharon’s speech (my fav Steve quote given to Pegs and then delivered by Sharon… anyway moving on). Steve made his choice based on his own morals and stuck with it. (By the way, he moved on from Pegs here.)

* Next, Bucky comes into play; and, Steve went on to protect his friend. Remember when he almost signed the accords because of Bucky? (Tony’s bargain was that he would make sure Bucky would not be turned over to the Wakandans.) Steve was tempted, yes, but when he heard about what Tony did to Wanda, he got proof that that the accords were wrong. He wanted to help Bucky badly, but in the end he kept those particular personal feelings from affecting his morals-based choice; he used his feelings of anger towards Wanda being trapped instead. “If I see a situation pointed south, I can’t ignore it. Sometimes I wish I could.” again, balanced.

* If you look at airport scene, you’d see how Steve was only talking about the other winter soldiers. Of course he’d his best friend, but he didn’t let his selfishness and feelings take over. He’s also doing this because it’s the right thing to do. To stop Zemo (the real villain here, by the way) and the other winter soldiers before they cause harm to the public. He’s fighting the good fight.

* Him not telling Tony about Bucky… This was because he knew Bucky was going to get hurt or even worse, killed, if he did. He considered the consequences and here he chose his feelings. He knew it wasn’t right, so he apologized to Tony via the letter. He paid the price for choosing his friend and following his feelings for this one; he became a fugitive. (Yet, remember that he rescued the avengers who were thrown in jail and kept on avenging secretly.) He’s still morally correct in the end.

* Remember when he whole-heartedly believed that Bucky did not bomb the UN? It’s because his faith is in people, not in systems or rules—he learned this the hard way in CATWS. He knew Bucky pulled him out of the river; and, his feelings came into play. But, he still checked out the facts with Sam and Sharon. And he was right: Bucky didn’t do it.

A:IW

* There wasn’t much Steve to begin with; however, I just want to point out that he’s still helping the avengers, protecting them despite the conflict. He went to the avengers compound (even though he wasn’t in good terms with the government) because they needed help (the earth was under attack and Tony was gone). but most importantly, because they are also his family. he has a life here.

And then, A:Endgame did that.

* I’m not saying Steve would never consider that life… I’m just saying that he would never choose to go back if he had the chance because he knows how to balance his feelings and moral compass. Our Steve would deal with his own trauma instead of running off to a better place (or so he thought it was a better place).

* Adding up the time travel logic, he can’t change the past. He’s creating another timeline—meaning… those people are not his people. Also, what would he say to them? Would he lie? Steve “I’m always honest” Rogers would never be able to live a life constructed by a web of lies. He certainly wouldn’t steal another Steve’s life. He considers the moral aspects of everything he does, not just his feelings. Creating another timeline just because he wanted to have a supposedly good life isn’t that.

* Adding another time travel theory (thanks markus), Steve staying in the shadow while hydra was infiltrating shield? While Bucky was being tortured? it’s bs okay. a joke. there’s no way Steve Rogers is gonna sit there and do nothing. If you want receipts, reread this post. Pick up any Captain America comics.

* Also, “He earned that” is such a problematic take. He didn’t do all this for a prize. He did all this because he is a hero… because he is someone who never gives up. and most importantly, because he cares.

Steve’s arc is NOT about indulging in the past. It’s about still connecting to the past, while adapting to the future. Times changed but the problems are still the same. Making a better future—that’s what he does and what he strives for. 

And that’s why we’re angry. I hope it sums up. It’s long, but it’s worth it. You can call me whatever names you like; it doesn’t matter. I know my value. I was angry at first, but you made me realize why Steve is my hero and the one I’ve always believed in. In conclusion, endgame!Steve is #NotMySteve. My Steve will always come back… do the right things, as he always does and always will.

#long post #answered #anti endgame #endgame spoilers #steve rogers #meta

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sineala · 6 years

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I'm a different anon but I want those paragraphs of why you don't ship Steve/Bucky. I got into Stony by way of MCU!Stucky, so something I struggle with Stony fics (of any fandom) is feeling the Stony chemistry when Bucky is present as a character. With my very selective gay-ified memory of a very small slice of Marvel canon, I just feel like Steve probably wouldn't go for Tony if Bucky is an option? But I recognize I have very little evidence for this opinion other than shared 1940s life exp.

Okay. For the five of you who, I guess, sincerely want to know why I don't ship 616 Steve/Bucky. Here goes.

I get why people ship MCU Steve/Bucky. They had a lot of comics material to draw on when deciding how to present Captain America in the MCU, and they intentionally chose and shaped a story that would make Bucky incredibly important to Steve; the combination of factors they arranged is such that no one else in the MCU is going to be able to be what Bucky is to Steve, although certainly other characters can be meaningful to Steve in different ways.

The MCU started off by borrowing from Ults, as they did for much of the MCU, and making Bucky Steve's childhood best friend as well as WWII teammate. They structured the plots of the Cap movies so as to make Bucky very important to Steve in all of them. In CATFA, rescuing Bucky was Steve's motivation to finally become Captain America, in the sense of actually going off and using his newfound abilities to fight evil. And then Bucky dies, which they arrange so that we can actually see Steve grieving for him (rather than a scenario closer to 616 in which they both go down at the same time). They also had the advantage of knowing that they next wanted to adapt The Winter Soldier arc, a storyline in which Bucky comes back -- so, since they knew that, they were able to take the "man out of time" quality of Steve and refine it and aim it, narratively, so that Steve is adrift in this strange future, and even though he connects with Sam and Natasha in CATWS (as well as the other Avengers in the team movies) they really set it up so that for him Bucky is the person who represents his past, who knows the "real" Steve who isn't Captain America, who has all this shared life experience that no one else can match. After Peggy dies in CACW, there is no one but Bucky who knows Steve from before the ice.

Recently I saw while checking fannish news sites that Chris Evans described Bucky as Steve's home. And, man, if that's what they're going for, I can see it. I mean, they've done three movies where one of the major things that drives the plot, in each of these movies, is the fact that Steve has some intense feelings for Bucky -- the rescue in CATFA, the, uh, entire plot of CATWS, and Steve trying to find Bucky and keep him safe in CACW. Bucky clearly means a hell of a lot to him, and Steve's plots have centered on having Bucky as his friend and ally. Why shouldn't you ship Steve with this guy who is his home? I get the impulse.

And I feel like I should start out by saying all this because I see all these things that people like about MCU Steve/Bucky. This is my understanding of what people like about MCU Steve/Bucky. What MCU Steve and Bucky have are all extremely romantic things for your OTP to have; if this is what you see in them, I see why you ship it in the MCU. But I don't think any of what people like about MCU Steve/Bucky is there for them in 616. At all.

I'm not saying this because I don't like 616 Bucky, because I do. I like him a lot! He's great! But... I don't ship him with 616 Steve. I don't really see it, not when there are other choices I see a lot better. (Like Tony.)

Where I am coming from in terms of my familiarity with comics: I've read some but not all of Golden Age Cap and none of the fifties Commie Smasher stuff. I've read a fair amount of Silver Age and Modern Cap comics, including the 1970s Invaders run, which is my primary point of reference for pre-retcon WWII Steve & Bucky. After v1, I've read Waid's v1/v3, most of the parts of Brubaker's run that Steve was alive for (including WWII-set work like The Marvels Project), and, God help me, most of Remender and all of everything after. So I acknowledge that I haven't read everything with Steve & Bucky and it's possible that there's something with 616 Steve/Bucky content that I haven't read that would really sway me, but if there is, I haven't heard about it.

Right. So, first off, one of the big differences is that Steve and Bucky aren't childhood friends, did not grow up together, and in fact did not meet until Steve was already Captain America. Steve's best friend as a child, in a retcon from the early 80s, was a kid named Arnie Roth. Not Bucky. So right there, if one of the things you like about Steve/Bucky in the MCU is the intimacy of the fact that Bucky knows who Steve was before the serum -- well, he doesn't in the comics. They don't have that.

I don't know if Bucky's age in WWII was ever explicitly given, pre-retcon -- Brubaker has put his age at sixteen -- but he was very definitely depicted as a kid sidekick, pubescent if not pre-pubescent (to me, he looks like he's about twelve), in the vein of Golden Age kid sidekicks everywhere, until Brubaker's run in 2005. MCU was working with the age retcons already in (actually, more like the ages from Ults), so if you're a MCU fan, Steve and Bucky have always been close to the same age, and their relationship has been one of equal or near-equal teammates and close friends. The retcons have pushed 616 Steve/Bucky closer to the same age -- when they met, now Steve would have been 20 and Bucky 16 -- but this really hasn't been the case for the majority of the years Marvel Comics has been going. Bucky has spent the majority of his fictional 616 life being Steve's (dead) kid sidekick, and if you're going to slash them in 616 you have to either accept that this does not bother you and you're going to use evidence of their friendship from that kid-sidekick time period to lend credence to your shipping, or you're going to restrict yourself to only material published after 2005, of which there... isn't much. (More on this later.)

This is personal preference on my part, I am aware, but the mentor/kid sidekick dynamic is not one that does a lot for me in terms of a romantic pairing; I think I'd have a hard time seeing pre-retcon 616 Steve/Bucky in a way that wouldn't paint it as, uh, kind of a fucked-up thing for Captain America to do with his kid sidekick, on account of the age/experience gap. It is a squick for me. And, yeah, I know that Bucky's not a kid now, and that the retcon evens out the age gap, but I think the fact that there's so much canon (even recent canon ignoring the retcon!) in which Bucky is a kid makes it hard for me to... just ignore it. That's a me problem. I know. And even when he's not an actual kid he's still a sidekick, which is that same dynamic, just less extreme. It's just hard for me to get over that in 616; in MCU, the Steve/Bucky fans have never had to get over that.

And, okay, yes, Steve does have some intense feelings about Bucky in 616 -- but they're essentially a one-sided relationship, because Steve's intense feelings are basically "being sad that Bucky is dead." He feels personally responsible for Bucky's death; MCU Steve mourns Bucky, certainly, as a lost friend, but 616 Steve's power differential over Bucky is a lot greater. He was a kid, Steve was supposed to protect him, and he let him down. It's different. Anyway, we see a lot more dead Bucky than we do live Bucky. One of Steve's major characterization points, especially in early Silver Age canon, is that he regrets that he couldn't save Bucky. Bucky is basically a narrative trope, a source of pain for Steve, not a living character with motivations and agency and so on and so forth who Steve is regularly interacting with. Prior to Brubaker, Bucky was dead. Dead dead dead. Not coming back, never going to come back. So the comics weren't really structured like the MCU films are, where this hanging thread of Bucky's death in CATFA is neatly resolved by his return to life in the next movie -- in the comics, he died, he was dead, and he was gonna stay dead forever. MCU viewers didn't have to wait nearly forty years, real-time, to see Bucky come back after his death was retconned into Avengers #4. Comics readers did. This has some pacing consequences for the comics.

So, yeah, sure, 616 Steve grieved Bucky's death. He made Rick Jones dress up as Bucky and be his new teen sidekick (side note: what the fuck, Steve?). There are a bunch of plots where he thinks Bucky is alive again but it isn't really Bucky and he's sad all over again. Or plots where he's a man out of time and he misses the past and misses Bucky. I'm not saying those don't exist, or that they're not evidence that Steve cares, because Steve certainly cares. But the thing about the pacing of all this is that eventually they stop doing those plots. Over time he connects with new people, modern people, civilians and superheroes, his fellow Avengers and his new sidekicks. Eventually Steve settles in and lives in the present and his life is no longer about missing the past and he's finally accepted who he is and when he is. (I feel like this is something MCU Steve hasn't really had the chance to do.) And it's long after he's accepted this that Bucky finally comes back into his life. If they’d brought Bucky back to life in, say, 1965, it might have been different, but as it is Steve definitely has a place in the modern world by the time he meets Bucky again, and he doesn't have to cling to Bucky as the sole focus of the past he desperately wants to return to -- because that's not who he is anymore. So if one of the things you like about MCU Steve/Bucky is Bucky being particularly special to Steve in this way, as a continued focus of intense feeling, you're not going to find the exact same thing in 616. There's grief, but then there's acceptance, and then there's... a whole lot of time Steve doesn't spend thinking about Bucky. There is a lot of Cap canon and it's not all about Bucky. Or even mostly about Bucky.

Building on that, the idea of Bucky as the best possible romantic partner for Steve specifically in terms of shared life experience is one of the big draws of MCU Steve/Bucky, as I understand it -- the idea that no one else has this shared life experience. And this is also another one of the things that is absolutely not true of 616. When Steve came back to life in 616, it was 1964. World War II had ended less than twenty years ago. If Steve hadn't gone into the ice he would have been in his early 40s. There were a whole lot of people walking around with shared life experience, and the comics knew that and used it. Pretty much everyone he served with other than Bucky was still alive! His childhood friend Arnie was still alive in the 1980s! Over the years, Steve builds various friendships with a bunch of people he served with or otherwise knew in the war: Fury, Fury's Howling Commandos, Logan, Natasha, Namor, the rest of the Invaders! Granted, some of this has gotten more and more improbable as we get farther out from World War II time-wise but that doesn't make it canonically untrue. Bucky definitely isn't the only person hanging around Earth-616 who has served in World War II. If that's Steve's criterion, he has options, is what I'm saying. There are other people out there who understand where he's coming from. He's not alone if he doesn't have Bucky.

While I'm at it, the commonality of Steve and Bucky being super-soldiers together also isn't a thing that exists in 616 in exactly the same way. Bucky was never experimented on in captivity; he did get the metal arm and was naturally an excellent sniper. In Fear Itself he is, IIRC, boosted to peak-human when Fury saves him with the Infinity Formula, but this isn't a thing that makes him and Steve unique, because there are plenty of super-powered people running around Earth-616. I mean, if you're going to say that Steve should date someone who's a super-soldier because only a fellow super-soldier can understand that aspect of Steve, then that's a lot of people in 616, up to and including Tony at certain points in his life. (Because, yes, Extremis was a super-soldier program.)

There's also the fact that, well, if you want to ship Steve and Bucky in 616, they don't exactly have a lot of canon together. If you ship 616 Steve/Tony, they have a lot of canon. The Cap-IM Slashy Moments List has about 200 moments, and those are just the bits people think are the absolute slashiest -- Steve and Tony have been in, at this point, close to two thousand comics together. This is not the case for Steve and Bucky. If you're willing to consider pre-retcon Steve/Bucky, you have the Golden Age Cap comics, and you have the 70s Invaders comics, as well as a few flashback issues of Cap here and there. I really enjoy the Invaders comics -- they're a whole lot of fun -- and they do portray Steve and Bucky as great teammates who get along well, but not, I think, in a particularly slashy way. If you want to look only at post-retcon Steve/Bucky, you are limited to comics after 2005. Steve unfortunately died pretty soon after Bucky came back to life -- so they don't really interact -- and then Steve stays dead until 2010, and after that they... still don't really interact much. They never serve on an Avengers team together. Bucky appears only infrequently in Steve's book. I never finished reading Brubaker's run so there may be some canon I am missing but no one has told me about it being particularly slashy for Steve/Bucky; I am told they do interact some in Brubaker's Winter Soldier run, if you want to read them in a book together, but I have not heard anything particularly slashy about it or, indeed, most of their other interactions. As far as I can tell, Brubaker goes straight for the Bucky/Nat in terms of romance, when Bucky comes back, right from the very beginning.

It's clear when Steve and Bucky do interact that they're good friends and that they have fond memories of serving together, and Bucky is closer to Steve than the rest of the Invaders are, probably, but you're not going to find a deep relationship where Bucky is everything to Steve. To the best of my recollection, the last time I saw them together on page in a non-WWII setting having any kind of prolonged conversation was in Avengers Standoff and then Secret Empire, and for most of their interaction, Steve was Hydra. I guess there was that scene at the beginning of Standoff where Bucky cooked him eggs in that diner. That was Real Steve. And that was two entire years ago.

(Okay, the bit after Fear Itself where Steve punches Fury in the face because he's mad Fury lied and didn't tell him Bucky was alive again is pretty great. I will give you that.)

I know that there are two 616 miniseries that MCU Steve/Bucky fans enjoy. One is Captain America: White, and the other is Captain America: Man Out of Time. Cap White is a WWII-set miniseries but it is also one in which the creators have definitely gone hard for kid-sidekick Bucky, so I feel like it's hard to really get a lot of slashiness there. And then there's Man Out of Time, which as we all know tackles Steve's origin story, and it shows how important Bucky is to Steve and how poorly Steve initially fits into the modern world by making him determined to go back in time to the forties. And he does, in fact, go back in time, albeit to a time after Bucky's death. But the thing about Man Out of Time, for me, is that ultimately, Steve chooses the future. When he has to pick between the past and the future, he picks the future. He picks the Avengers. And at the end we see Steve at the Grand Canyon, where Bucky always wanted to go, and, yes, he's obviously thinking of Bucky... but he has, in the end, made a choice to stay with the Avengers, and that's one of the things I actually love the most about Man Out of Time. Steve gets an opportunity to stay in the forties and he instead makes a conscious choice to go be an Avenger.

(There is also the recent Cap annual if you want to see them interacting in WWII in recent canon, which is very good but... it's not, like, super-slashy.)

And then there's the question of how long Steve and Bucky have known each other. Being childhood friends in the MCU gives them a long, long time to know each other, longer than anyone else in the MCU could. At this point in the MCU, Steve has only known the Avengers for, what, six years? He's known Bucky for way longer than that. By the time he meets Bucky again in the MCU he's only been an Avenger for a couple years, right? The Avengers are the new guys. The situation is reversed in 616. Steve meets Bucky in 1940 and they serve together until 1945. That's five years. Depending on what you believe about Marvel's sliding timescale, by the time Steve and Bucky meet again, Steve has been an Avenger for somewhere between ten and fifteen years. If you think about the other founding Avengers (Tony, Thor, Hank, Jan) or the rest of the Kooky Quartet (Clint, Wanda, Pietro), Steve has known them two to three times as long as he's known Bucky -- and the lower bound here is an entire decade. He's known Sam for at least as long as he's known Bucky, and probably longer, since he met Sam in 1969 and that is way closer to the beginning of modern Marvel than it is to the current day. There are all these people whom Steve has had years and years to form deep and enduring friendships and relationships with, before Bucky ever came back into the picture.

So as you can see, the situation in 616 for Steve/Bucky is really, really not the same as it is for MCU, and as far as I can tell, everything that MCU fans like about Steve/Bucky just doesn't play out the same way in 616 for a variety of reasons. If you want a 616 Steve ship with the goddamn single-minded intensity of MCU Steve/Bucky, honestly, 616 Steve/Tony is going to be your best bet, because I can point to multiple major comics events that basically revolve around Steve and Tony and their epic feelings for each other, with the proviso that sometimes these feelings involve them trying to murder each other. But I figure if you like CATWS you are probably okay with that. Also, hey, if you enjoy extremely intense fight scenes in which one character, beaten badly, is lying there, unresisting, staring into the eyes of his former friend while his friend readies the final blow, begging his friend to finish it -- well, let me introduce you to 616 Steve/Tony in Civil War:

So, you know, there's that.

You might ask at this point, okay, well, what would 616 Steve/Bucky look like on its own merits? If it doesn't look like MCU Steve/Bucky, what would it look like? Honestly, post-retcon, I think it would look a hell of a lot like shipping Steve with, say, another one of his fellow Invaders or other WWII teammates. Something like Steve/Namor. (Although probably with less "I resent all the times you tried to murder my friends" than Steve/Namor would have. So maybe Steve/Logan is a better comparison, except I don't remember how much of WWII Logan remembers.) Buddies from World War II, a lot of camaraderie and positive feelings and shared memories to bond over, and it would be sweet, but there wouldn't be any kind of unique dynamic that Steve only shares with Bucky, and I don't think there'd be the intensity that Steve and Bucky have in the MCU. It would be fun. It would be nice. It would be the kind of rarepair you'd request in exchanges. But it probably wouldn't be a juggernaut ship.

Until they start pulling all of MCU back into 616, you're just not going to get a dynamic in 616 where Bucky is Steve's home. You're really not.

Also, uh, if you want to talk about 616 Steve's feelings about home, and who he associates with home, I think we all know that there is a canonical statement about this:

In 616 Steve chooses the future, and I'm going to keep on shipping him with the futurist, the guy whose voice was the first voice he heard, coming out of the ice. The one who's been there for him since he woke up. The one who gave him a home.

So that’s why I don’t ship 616 Steve/Bucky. It’s really, really not the same dynamic as the MCU, and if you’re looking for 616 characters that Steve has repeatedly demonstrated deep and intense affection for, as well as a lasting friendship and partnership... well, there’s Tony, right there.

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