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roosterforme · 1 month

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Covering the Classics Part 3 | Bob Floyd x OC

Summary: When Anna finally agrees to meet her new friends at the bar, she learns pretty quickly that the hot guy from the bookstore is actually Bob Floyd. But the fact that she ran and hid from him, thinking she'd never have to see him again, leaves her feeling mortified, and Bob is left to draw his own conclusions.

Warnings: Fluff, angst, adult language, eventually 18+

Length: 3700 words

Pairing: Robert "Bob" Floyd x Female OC (this story is part of the Beer Boy/Sugar and Jake/Jessica universe)

Covering the Classics masterlist. Check my masterlist for more! Thank you to @mak-32 for the beautiful banner!

Anna took a deep breath as she swiped on some mascara and found her tube of lipgloss. She finally caved and agreed to go to the Navy bar that her friends couldn't stop talking about at lunch every day. She only had about five dollars in her wallet to buy a drink since she sold her car for rent money. She couldn't believe was going to take an Uber all the way to Coronado just to make an absolute fool of herself in front of this Bob character. And worst of all, she was still thinking about the hot guy with glasses from the bookstore.

"It's okay," she told her reflection in the bathroom mirror. "At least you're absolutely killing it at work. And you're having a good hair day." She dabbed at her lips, but skipped the concealer. Kevin used to love it when she covered up her freckles which made her never want to do it ever again. Every time she thought about him, her heart skipped a beat, but not in the fun way.

She counted to five and said, "Kevin isn't here." Then she put her makeup away and made sure her computer was plugged in so she could mess around online when she inevitably returned to her miniscule apartment within the next hour and a half. "Let's get this show on the road," she muttered.

The ride to the bar was uneventful, as she was sure the rest of her evening would be as well. Bob sounded like an absolute dream when Advanced Calculus and Advanced Physics talked about him. Anna couldn't imagine him being outright rude to her after the two of them said he was sweet and had perfect manners, but she could already tell what his reaction would be: a kind but forced laugh, and maybe a halfhearted smile. And then Anna would probably get to watch him pick up a different girl instead if she didn't leave right away with her proverbial tail between her legs.

Maybe she should have stayed home.

"Here we are," the driver said as he pulled into a beachside parking lot as the sun started setting over the ocean. "The Hard Deck."

"That was quick," she murmured, wishing she could stay in the solitude of this backseat a bit longer as she climbed out. "Thanks."

The fact that every day in San Diego was warm and beautiful was going to take some getting used to. The weather almost never wavered here unlike back at home. Anna opened the weather app on her phone and scrolled to her saved location in New Jersey, and sure enough, it was raining there. She nibbled on her lip and checked her work email, dragging the toe of her beat up sneaker on the gavel parking lot.

She was just stalling now, wondering if her friends would even notice if she didn't show up. They just met her two weeks ago; they probably didn't even really like her that much. Her thumb hovered over her rideshare app as she thought about the two other women just going about their business like normal if she never went back to the weird tree at lunchtime. She was inconsequential to their day.

Anna pressed her lips together and tapped the app. There was a car two minutes away, but the guilt of having wasted eighteen dollars to come here in the first place was eating away at her mind. "Damn it," she whispered as she closed out of the app and shoved her phone into the pocket of her snug jeans. She started walking up to the sand covered wood planks that led to the entrance of the bar, and she didn't stop until she was inside.

Slow Ride was blaring from the sound system, and the place was pretty packed. It took a few seconds for her eyes to adjust so she could get the lay of the land, and when she did, she realized she was surrounded by mostly men. "Great," she mumbled, earning a few looks, probably because she had barely taken a step beyond the entryway before freezing up.

But as Anna made her way closer to the bar, a big guy in a khaki uniform winked at her and called out, "Hey, Red!"

She felt her cheeks warm up which was certainly not going to help with that nickname. "Oh no." Deftly, she squeezed her way through the many bodies until she had one hand resting on the bar. Why were all these men so attractive? And why were they looking at her?

When a different guy next to her turned and saw her, he stuck out his hand and said, "Hey, I'm Jackson."

"Anna," she replied, slipping her smaller hand into his very briefly before trying to take a step back. But she just ended up bumping into someone else.

"You gotta let me buy you a drink," Jackson told her with a grin. "Seriously. You're already the best part of my night."

Anna swallowed as she looked around for her friends, but she didn't see either of them. "Um... not yet. I'm not a big drinker."

Jackson laughed merrily. "Aww, honey. You came to the wrong place. Hey, Penny!" Anna watched the bartender turn around with her hands full of two martini glasses. "Can you get this one anything she wants on my tab?"

Penny laughed, and said, "You'll have to get in line, Jackson. You're number four on her roster already."

"Damn it!" Jackson complained with a laugh.

Anna's eyes went wide as Penny delivered the two drinks and then came back and leaned on the bar right in front of her. "By the looks of things, you won't have to pay for a single drink all night. So what'll it be?"

Penny had friendly looking eyes that made Anna feel a little more comfortable. "A ginger ale?"

"Coming right up," Penny replied, reaching for a pint glass and the soda dispenser gun without looking away. "I've never seen you in here before, so I feel like it's only fair to warn you that these guys can get a little relentless."

That was literally the last thing Anna wanted to hear right now. Even Jackson hadn't moved an inch away from her, and her hands were starting to sweat as the ginger ale came gliding across the bar. When she wrapped her hand around the cold glass, she told Penny, "I'm actually supposed to meet some friends here. But I don't see them?"

She smiled and said, "Give me a name."

Anna looked down into the bubbles of her drink and muttered, "Jessica Reed?"

The response was immediate but kind. "By the pool table. Where she always is. Oh, and do not challenge her to a game, because she will kick your ass."

Anna laughed as she picked up her drink. "Thank you so much. And um... could you thank whomever paid for my ginger ale?"

Penny nodded as Anna started to head for the pool table. Jackson pouted at her, and the big guy in the uniform called out, "Come back, Red!" She ignored both of them as she fought her way through the crowd, desperately trying not to spill her drink on anyone. There were a lot more khaki uniforms and even some one piece jumpsuit type things that had patches sewn onto them. She read a few of the patches as she got closer to the pool table. Harvard. Omaha. Halo. Those were some weird names.

"There she is. Anna!"

She turned her head when she heard her name, and she saw Jessica waving one hand in the air as she juggled a beer and a pool cue in the other. Jessica actually looked happy to see her as she stood there, all wrapped up in the arms of a guy that Anna couldn't fully see yet. And then her other friend was waving both hands in the air, too, so she waved back. "Hi."

Both women squealed, "Hi, Anna!" in unison, and it was honestly one of the nicest sounds Anna had heard in recent memory. She already felt better about being here now, and that's when she caught sight of who she assumed was Jake. And she was momentarily struck dumb.

The blonde man kissed the side of Jessica's neck and whispered something before releasing her, and then his green eyes met Anna's as he smiled. She decided immediately that he looked like a GQ model, and that was actually pretty fitting for what would pair well with Jessica.

"Hey," Jessica said, reaching for her hand and pulling her closer. "This is my boyfriend, Jake." She gestured over her shoulder to the GQ model who reached his hand out.

"Hi, Anna," he said with a southern drawl. "I've heard a lot about you."

"Oh. Same," she replied, biting her tongue before she told him she'd never heard of a man who was sweet enough to pack his girlfriend fancy sandwiches and also had the nerve to look like he belonged on a magazine cover.

"And that's Bradley," Jessica said mildly.

"My god," she whispered to herself. Her other friend was wrapped up in a pair of thick arms that belonged to a man with a mustache and alluring scars that ran along his left cheek and down the side of his neck into his floral shirt collar. He was every bit as good looking as Jake, but he had dark hair and eyes and looked decidedly a little bit rougher around the edges.

She blushed as she remembered the comment about how he and his wife liked to use math as foreplay in the bedroom. Right now, he kept pulling his wife closer for another hug and kiss while she playfully tried to escape his grasp, and Anna had to look away, because a flash of jealousy hit her like a brick.

"Hey, Anna," came Bradley's gravelly voice as he finally released his wife, and she shook his hand as well. "Sugar told me you're from New Jersey."

Sugar? Anna was definitely beat red in the face now. "That's right."

He laughed and reached out again for a fist bump. "Way better than all these west coast losers," he said over his shoulder, earning a middle finger from another seriously good looking guy.

"Stop trying to make her think you're cool, Beer Boy," his wife told him with an eye roll before he turned away to talk to the other guy.

The problem was, Anna already thought they were all devastatingly cool, and now she was standing here like an awkward fifth wheel. "Do you want a beer?" Jessica asked with a smile. "They have Sam Adams."

Anna didn't want to tell her about the scant five dollars in her pocket, and she also didn't want to have to thank one of the random guys who told Penny they wanted to buy her a drink, so she just shook her head.

Then her other friend said, "Well Bob is up at the bar right now. You just missed him, actually." She was smirking as she added, "He's probably getting himself a ginger ale, but if you want a beer or something else, he'd be happy to get it for you."

She made like she was about to call out his name when Jessica said, "Bob also likes ginger ale. And the bookstore in North Park."

Anna met her eyes before turning and craning her neck. "He does?" she asked softly, thinking about those pretty eyes and wire rimmed glasses and the smell of tea leaves. And then she saw him. He was here! "Oh," she gasped. He was Bob?

---------------------------

"Thanks, Penny," Bob said as he accepted his drink. Two of the guys at the bar were talking about a cute redhead, and all he could think about was the girl from the bookshop who decided after probably four minutes and seventeen seconds that she didn't want to talk to him anymore. He wanted to look around for this mysterious, new redhead, because if he was being honest, that was something he really thought was pretty, but what was the point? She was probably already over trying to talk to Bradley or Jake or Mickey.

Yesterday, Bradley told him to start wearing his uniform to the bar if he wanted more girls to talk to him, but Bob wasn't that desperate. He still had this fantasy where he met the girl of his dreams kind of organically. But maybe wearing a Dungeons & Dragons shirt wasn't the best thing he could have paired with his jeans tonight. Jake took one look at it thirty minutes ago and told him to go home and change into something else.

"Your girlfriend likes it," Bob had told him with a smirk, and sure enough a minute later Jessica was making a fuss over it.

But now he was making his way back to the pool table where the two couples were most likely on the verge of being indecent. Seriously, if Bob had to watch Bradshaw's hands all over his wife's rear end for one more minute, he was going to scream.

Then he saw her, and he nearly dropped his glass of ginger ale on the floor. It was the girl from the North Park bookstore. Red hair, brown eyes, freckles, kissable lips. She was looking back at him in disbelief.

Oh my god. He was hallucinating. He must be. Jessica was talking to the redhead who wasn't paying an ounce of attention to her, because she was focused on Bob. Her lips curled into a smile, and he thought he'd better make sure. When he glanced to his left and then his right, he didn't see anyone else who could be on the receiving end of that smile besides him.

"Bob!" called Bradshaw's wife. "Come meet Anna!"

Anna. That was the name of their new friend from the university. They talked about her all the time even though they just met her. They told him he would like her. But this was the girl who wanted that horrible Vonnegut book last weekend. This was the girl Mickey thought he imagined.

Apparently he hadn't stopped walking, because now he was right in front of the three women, and he had three pairs of wide eyes trained on his face. "I remember you," he said softly. "From the classics section." Her lips parted softly, and her pupils went wide as Bob asked, "Are you Anna?"

She nodded, her cheeks tinged with pink beneath her freckles. He almost groaned, because she was so much cuter in person than what his memory supplied. Nothing about her was flashy, which he almost preferred, but there was no way she wasn't the hot girl that those guys at the bar were talking about.

"I am," she replied. "And you're Bob?"

He glanced at the other two women, wondering what exactly they told her about him. They looked like they were both holding their breath as he held out his hand and said, "I'm Bob Floyd. It's nice to meet you. Again."

"I'm Anna Webber." She bit her lip, a look of embarrassment overtaking her features as she shook his hand gently. Then he remembered that she ditched him last weekend, leaving nothing but the book he'd already devoured in her place like some sort of parting gift. He released her hand abruptly and cleared his throat.

Now she looked a little hurt, but he didn't know what to say. He ran his fingers through his hair, his nerves getting worse by the second as the other two women practically vibrated with excitement on either side of Anna. "Uh, thanks for that book recommendation. I loved it," he said, barely meeting Anna's pretty eyes.

She gasped and asked, "You read it? You actually read it?"

Bob was trying to formulate another coherent response, but the urge to walk out of the bar was very strong. He was already embarrassed right now, and then he heard Mickey's voice as his friend walked over. "Holy shit, she does have red hair and brown eyes."

Mickey seemed to capture Anna's attention for the time being which really grated on Bob's nerves. Nat would never do this to him, and he couldn't wait until she got home from being deployed. Then Bradshaw's wife was in his personal space along with Jessica. "So she was the girl? From the store in North Park?" she whispered, squeezing his hand.

"The one you had instant chemistry with?" Jessica added hopefully.

Bob swallowed hard. "Yeah," he murmured. "It was Anna. But the two of you need to knock it off now, because it's probably not going to happen. There's just something about me that doesn't translate well. She kind of ditched me at the bookstore."

"What do you mean?" Jessica practically shrieked, and Bob had to hush her. "You're perfect for each other!"

He closed his eyes and shook his head, letting his awkwardness wash over him. "I don't know, Jess."

When he opened his eyes again, Anna was looking at him while she talked to Mickey, and Bob knew it would take even longer to get over the mystery woman now.

--------------------------

Anna couldn't believe Bob was the mystery man from the bookstore. Their chance meeting read like a piece of poetry that had no business being in her life, but the fact that she was meeting him for the second time felt something like fate. And she didn't like it. Not one bit.

He was so handsome, just like Jake and Bradley. Now Anna was wondering what they fed these men in the Navy, because Mickey was very good looking as well. But the more she spoke to him, the more irritated Bob seemed. And she didn't like how his brow was pinching above his glasses. Not compared to the way he'd looked at her in the bookstore.

Her mind was a mess right now. And then she remembered that she actually ran and hid from Bob last time she saw him. She started to panic and look around, silently coming up with an escape route, but it was too late.

"Let's play pool?" Jessica asked a bit cautiously, and that was when Anna fully pieced it all together. Her new friends from work were going to think she wasn't attracted to Bob, but that couldn't have been further from the truth right now. Frankly she didn't know what she should do, so she followed everyone over to the pool table.

Well, everyone except for Bob. He remained at the bar alone, and she couldn't really blame him for not wanting to talk to her after the stunt she pulled in the bookstore. But she was only trying to protect herself. Maybe she could explain that to him.

She was trying to decide if she would have hid from the most attractive man who had given her the time of day in years if she knew it was actually Bob. That's when she set down her empty glass of ginger ale because she was being handed a pool cue and told to team up with Bradley. She went through the motions, playing as well as she could while she chatted with everyone, but she found herself hoping to catch Bob's pretty eyes looking at her. Once she lost and handed the cue to Jessica, she saw him heading her way, and he had a glass of ginger ale in each hand.

"Anna," he said softly in that voice that left her shivering. She took the drink he offered her and tried to act normal, but she was still so startled by what he said earlier.

"Did you really read A Room with a View?" she asked quickly before she lost the nerve.

Bob smiled softly and met her eyes briefly before glancing at the floor. "Every word of it."

She bit her lip to keep from screaming. Kevin never once read any of the novels she suggested for him, preferring modern horror monstrosities instead. And then he went and actually turned her life into a horrific monstrosity which she should have probably seen coming. But right here in front of her was Bob who she had actually already met and formed a pitiful crush on, and she couldn't bring herself to say more than, "I'm happy you read it."

He was blushing now as he sipped his own ginger ale before saying, "Yeah, it was great. I wouldn't mind some more of your book recommendations, honestly. As long as you don't try to get me to read that Vonnegut."

"Cat's Cradle," she said with a laugh that had his gaze snapping back up to hers. His eyes were hopeful as she smiled at him, but she rubbed her hand along her forehead and said, "I'm sorry I... vanished. The other day."

"What happened? I told Mickey I needed a minute, and you were just gone."

She wanted to be honest with him, but she didn't know how to explain herself. And now she was starting to feel like she and Bob were in a fishbowl; so many pairs of eyes were looking their way with next to no subtlety. She cleared her throat and decided to avoid his question. "Have you read any Jane Austen?"

He looked a bit disappointed by her response, but he said, "I have not."

"I think you'd enjoy Persuasion. Or Northanger Abbey. What about Virginia Woolf?"

Bob shook his head. "I feel like I'm about to embarrass myself again like I did last weekend at the bookstore, but no, I haven't read either."

Anna practically moaned at his bashful expression and pink cheeks. He smelled so good, it was unbelievable. Why did she feel so drawn to him? Why couldn't she stop herself from taking a step closer when he muttered, "As soon as you said you knew what Cat's Cradle was about, I figured I was in way over my head. The classics kind of elude me. I'm actually more of a poetry buff."

"Poetry?" she gasped, heart pounding at an overwhelming rate as he swirled his glass of ginger ale around with nonchalance. As if he hadn't just said the sexiest thing any man had ever told her.

"Are the two of you just going to stand here and play footsie all night?"

Anna looked up to see Jake with a smirk on his face right in front of her. She didn't even notice anyone else in her vicinity before he spoke. Bob was shaking his head and already taking a step away from her when she asked, "Do you want me to text you some more recommendations?"

Bob froze and turned to look at her with a soft smile. "That'd be great." When she handed him her unlocked phone, he quickly added his number before handing it back to her. His calloused fingers felt even more exhilarating this time, which was very bad, because she'd already been thinking about the way he accidentally touched her at the bookstore on repeat.

"I'll send you some of my ideas," she muttered, pocketing her phone again before allowing Jake to pull her away toward the pool table again. She tried her best not to let her attention return to Bob over and over again, but she mostly failed. Sure enough, after a while, she saw another woman break the perimeter of the pool table and make a beeline toward Bradley before eventually turning toward Bob.

She was really pretty with shiny brown hair, and it made Anna uncomfortable when she touched Bob's arm. It wasn't fair. He was so lovely and soft spoken and handsome. He was even wearing a shirt Kevin would have never been caught dead in, but it made Anna smile. In another version of her life, she would have gone for it tonight. Instead she got to watch the brunette woman hand him her phone just like she'd done a few minutes prior.

"It's pretty late," she said suddenly even though she had no idea what time it actually was. "I'm going to head out."

Advanced Calculus and Advanced Physics both looked a little alarmed. "Already?"

"Yeah," she said, setting down her ginger ale and trying to skirt past Bob and the unknown woman. She gave both of her friends a quick hug and said, "I have a lot to prepare for my upcoming classes this weekend."

"Let me walk you to your car," Bob replied immediately, slipping away from the brunette to be closer to Anna. "Maybe you can give me the titles of the Jane Austen books again?" His cheeks were flushed, and the other woman looked annoyed now which did make Anna smile.

"Persuasion and Northanger Abbey," she repeated for him as she started to walk past the bar sending a wave in the direction of the pool table. Bob was following her now as she added, "And I don't have a car, so there's nothing to walk me to."

"Persuasion and Northanger Abbey," he repeated softly to himself. "Will you let me drive you home then?" he asked hopefully. "All I had to drink was ginger ale."

Anna let herself look up at him before she shook her head. "I'll get an Uber, but thanks for offering. It was nice to meet you. Again."

"It sure was," he agreed as he continued to follow her all the way to the door.

With one last glance over her shoulder, she noticed the dark haired woman on her tiptoes looking around for Bob. "Your brunette friend is looking for you," Anna said softly before slipping outside into the cool night air and opening the rideshare app on her phone. Bob didn't follow her any further, and she rode home with disappointment and sadness thrumming through her body. She was out of cheap wine, but at least she had her favorite poetry website to keep her company.

-------------------------

Bob groaned as he nudged his glasses up his nose and pressed his fingertips to his eyes until he was seeing stars. "But I like redheads," he moaned to himself. He could not believe it. He really just couldn't get over the fact that tonight of all nights some random woman started to chat him up. Anna could barely look at him to begin with, but now he'd be damn lucky if she actually texted him the book recommendations at all.

His dream girl was Anna. Anna was the perfect woman he met at the bookstore. Anna was the one he'd been thinking about nonstop, but now he had confirmation that she wasn't into him. That's why she vanished last weekend. That's why she gave him the cold shoulder tonight when he was practically tripping over himself at the sight of her. She was perfect. He was just hopeless. He could keep thinking about her, but what was the point? Now that he knew she worked with his friends, he had to stop this crush in its tracks and try to save face.

"There you are, Robby." A hand snaked around his side to his abs, and he almost jumped a foot in the air. He hated being called that, and he hated that Anna saw this woman talking to him.

"Hi," he said cautiously, taking a step away from her.

"Is the redhead your girlfriend?" she asked, clearly annoyed now.

Bob sighed and said, "I wish."

She rolled her eyes and vanished back into the crowd, leaving him alone again. He never imagined he'd have such an eventful night involving the fairer sex. "Damn it," he whispered as he made his way back toward the pool table to his friends.

"There he is!" Bradley called out with his hands cupped around his mouth. "Big ol' Bob! Did you just give your phone number to not one but two women?"

His wife and Jessica both looked mad now. "I thought you liked Anna," Jessica snapped. "Once we realized she was the redhead from the bookstore, we thought you'd probably end up sneaking off with her or something."

Bob could feel the heat rising in his face. "Come on," he replied, giving Jessica a look. "There's no way that would have happened. And I didn't give that other woman my number. I didn't even want to talk to her." In a softer voice, he added, "She just started touching me for no reason."

Bradley's wife pulled Bob in for a quick hug as she said, "Pretty soon, you'll be as good at dodging them as Bradley is." She looked him in the eye and quietly asked, "Now what happened with Anna?"

"I don't really know." That was his honest answer. "I was excited to see her again. I guess I imagined she vanished in the bookstore like some sort of romanticized Cinderella fairytale or something stupid when in reality she just... kind of got tired of talking to me. She seemed a little uncomfortable when she saw me again tonight, so that must be it."

"I think you're wrong," she said with conviction that almost made Bob believe it himself. "Jess and I will ask her about it next week."

"Please don't," he groaned, shaking his head. "I'm going to go home. See you at D&D tomorrow," he told Jessica before stopping by the bar to pay for the ginger ales, but Penny just waved him on. He left her a ten dollar tip and walked out to his truck.

It wasn't even that late, and when he parked in front of his duplex, his elderly next door neighbor was still awake with her door propped open for her cat to come back inside. As Bob trudged up the shared walkway with his key in hand, she called out, "Robert! Is that you?"

"Hi, Suzanne," he replied with a laugh. "It's me."

She was sitting on her couch, and he could hear game show reruns playing as she loudly said, "You're home pretty early for a Friday night. Still haven't found a girlfriend?"

Bob groaned. He could kick himself for even mentioning that he wished he had a girlfriend a few weeks ago when he took dinner over for her one Sunday evening. "Still single," he confirmed as he headed for his front door which was all of ten feet away from hers.

She scoffed, and Bob saw her massive cat, Sylvester, streak back inside. "You must not be trying very hard, Robert. Handsome, strong thing like you."

It was like arguing with his grandma, so he just avoided it completely. "Okay, I saw Sylvester run inside, so I'm going to close your front door. Make sure you lock it before you go to sleep. Good night, Suzanne."

He pulled her door closed for her and then unlocked his, and he walked inside to find his copy of A Room with a View sitting on the coffee table. It seemed to be taunting him like it knew he'd seen the adorable redhead again. And struck out a second time. He was confused and hurt and annoyed, and he just wanted to go to bed and pretend like he wasn't as hopeless as he felt.

-----------------------------

These babes need to get themselves straightened out! Anna, he thinks you're not into him! Bob, she's scared to admit she is! Thanks @mak-32 and @beyondthesefourwalls

PART 4

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katyspersonal · 7 days

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who do you think fucked up worse…gehrman or maria?

This is an interesting question, and I kind of didn't think of it before! Time to take a closer look at their crimes I guess. Some of these will be held on the possibilities and 'safe assumptions' though and addressed for the full picture!

1) Both were involved in Fishing Hamlet massacre!

With Maria, we can conclude as much because she discarded her weapons in the well at the place specifically. Her version in the Nightmare realm, a Hunter again, is supposed to be what punishes her, and she is focused on keeping Kos/OoK away from rummaging through. Considering the nature of the Nightmare, as well as the Doll who has spiritual connection with her, it should come from her guilt and regrets rather than.. I dunno, discarding the hunt over natural 'character development' and just picking a cool place to forsaken her past!

Gehrman sleeps better according to the dialogue Doll has after you kill OoK and free it's soul, so if it tortured him so, I think it is safe to say he had to be personally involved too rather than stay back while his students did the job:

They both were involved with Byrgenwerth, following their quest for obtaining the eyes of the dwellers from their skulls, and I suppose cord of OoK?

The thing about this point is that the description is written as though it was Gehrman's curiosity which ruined Maria's "idealisation" of him, or WOULD ruin it had she learned of it! This makes me wonder whether she was really involved in Byrgenwerth all that much, or whether she was aware of the real purpose of Fishing Hamlet massacre beforehand? Her goal, within the Nightmare, is stated to mercy-kill us so we don't allow that curiousity corrupt us to the point of "rummaging through corpse" and similar things, further supported by her visceral attack being an embrace if it is lethal!

I am just saying that here the balance might slightly shift towards making Gehrman 'worse' than her. Maybe she was not aware that it all was not just killing "monsters" but also a pregnant mother with her divine baby, but "well you didn't ask :/". Maybe Gehrman deceived her to use her aid. Maybe he didn't think it would be a big deal for her seeing that Maria was also interested in evolution through talking with Great Ones, and assumed she'd be just as callous about which means to accomplish the goals with?

2) Both were grave-robbing, or at least okay with that!

This one is a little less obvious, but Tomb Prospectors were not the first to go to the Chalice Dungeons! ...It were actually Willem, Dores and Gatekeeper lol:

BUT ALSO it were Old Hunters! We can see the remnants of it by Old Hunter Vitus being one the summons in Chalice Dungeons, hear Gehrman encourage us to go into the Chalice Dungeons to become stronger as via "tradition" of the Old Hunters,

and the fact that one of the things that torture Maria (again, remember that Nightmare Realm is Hell that punishes) is a Chalice:

(A video ( x ) for a better look at the Chalice from a figure)

I'd say that it is not very nice to disturb the undead Pthumerians just struggling in remains of their civilisation! Interesting thing: we can conclude they are even staying there to protect the Great Ones or their remains!

There has been some sort of civil war between ancient great-ones-respecting Pthumerians and who late became Cainhurst nobles! Maria, ironically, fell onto the side of "entitled guys" descendants! But yes, I could see why bullying zombie guys to get more history and archeology relics from them might not seem like much for her at start. Experience in the Fishing Hamlet likely retroactively ruined this period of her life for her: delving into Chalice Dungeons was likewise 'not leaving the corpse alone'. The remaining Pthumerians were right having some honour and dignity. So, that came to haunt her in the form of Pthumeru Chalice. Gehrman is.. well he's here too I guess dfshfdhs

3) Both knew a little too much about Laurence's shady business and did nothing?

Old Hunters used to be friends with Healing Church's Hunters and even had their workshops located close to one another! Gehrman was friends with Laurence and Ludwig, who are both quite strongly involved with Moon Presence (Ludwig's sword and guidance, Laurence's affiliation being known since Byrgenwerth times), as well as the key figure in creation of Hunter's Dream:

This was most likely a bait-and-switch, seeing how the cord itself is still in the real Workshop, and not in the grasp of Moon Presence (unlike, say, Wet Nurse taking Mergo's cord)! I think the purpose of creation of the Hunter's Dream was to "buy time" for the research conceived by the scientists! Remember: Gehrman was known to have "madness of curiosity" that Maria resented, or at least would resent had she known! He might have been fully aware of what Laurence wanted to do and support it! My point here, that with such proximity, he must have known of all Laurence's crimes and agreed with them!

Maria was at least overseer of the Clocktower's Research Hall, which, again, was just beta!Choir.

This last line IS a bit confusing, because it makes it sound as though the nerds looking for the Eyes Inside and the Blood Ministers got split. Laurence and Ludwig make it weird, as Moon Presence is also an Eldrich creature and Ludwig is for sure full of eyes! What also makes it strange is that Choir, and then School of Mensis, are both upper echelons of the Healing Church, but Laurence is supposed to be above both of them.

I think this can be worked with! Let's say what if Choir formed after Laurence's death, which also happened after Maria's death, and Vicars after him were somewhat "powerless" and walked over by Choir and Mensis, only leaders in the name! But that still leaves the bit that the mentioned "division" happened after Choir was formed! Maria and Adeline, however, are locked to the existence of the Research Hall, so, the timeframe when doctors and blood ministers were 100% working together! We find the Eye Pendant that opens the access to the Research Hall in Laurence's hand, and human Skull of Laurence on the platform that hides the secret elevator to that Research Hall. Again, by the Nightmare Logic, they must be connected with Laurence's sins: he started this research, or sponsored it, or was overseeing it, and so on.

This point is not an absolute thing though, because one or both of them might be freed from guilt here. Maybe Gehrman was not as informed and agreeable as we could assume and Laurence did lead him around? Maybe Maria wanted but could not do anything being caught in the web of complicated connections, blackmail and risks for the people she cared about?

4) Both are willingly involved in questionable practices (Maria with research, Gehrman with the cycle of Dream and Hunt)

This point I feel like transcends the morality a little bit, as it touches the matter of 'it is bad if you do it, but it is also bad if you DON'T do it'. I really love Soulsborne universes for having guts to say "you can't win, just pick your poison", but I think it is still worth addressing!

It is up to interpretation in which quantity Maria is involved with the Research Hall! Nothing states whether she founded it, joined in the research later, stepped in and turned the tides (ba dum tss) of the research, or simply was a caretaker/nurse/etc of the broken mess while Research Hall was getting ready for a bit of rebranding. She can be very guilty, or she can be barely guilty but in either case if that was her "redemption arc" that was a pretty bad way to go about it. ...or was it?

Fauxsefka turns people into Celestial Emissaries so they physically can't become beasts instead, and is even stated to be a hero / heroic researcher by Miyazaki:

First, I don't do Death of the Author (in terms of interpreting media I mean, not in terms of a style of writing)! Like, nope. Never. It is just not for me. Creator's word is the final for me; Fauxsefka is the good guy in the story, apparently, and it makes sense considering the fundamentally broken place characters are in! Maria has similarities with Fauxsefka: not only both of them have Cainhurst roots, but also both of them seem to favour 'Stars' line of evolution for humans!

Whereas other patients are afraid of the horrors of the Deep Sea, a concept Miyazaki could not get over well into DS3, Adeline desires them! Other patients seems to have gotten it right, and you can see one of them also clings to Maria mentally to "not drown"; Adeline "didn't understand"! The balcony that Maria wants Adeline to go to so she can forsaken the Deep Sea and seek something "happier" holds unique kind of patients who can shoot cosmic arcane spells:

Herself, Maria is associated with these lumenflowers: their petals are all over her boss arena, and the way to her lays through a much bigger batch of flowers, where Living Failures, other 'Stars' Kin are, whose song lyrics also feature lines 'ave stellar' and 'ave Maria'!

So, how this is different from what Fauxsefka is doing, who is stated to be as much of a good person as possible within this context and with the burden of her knowledge? Fauxsefka was doing more or less rinse-and-repeat practice, with maybe a few patients not surviving the procedure but we don't know what happened: maybe that person was already at the brink of death and she tried to make them live like this.

^ This guy I mean. Maria, on the other hand, is in the time period where the doctors and scientists were only testing the waters (BA DUM TSSS) (ok I will stop) and it was not SO certain what was at the stake, what were the alternatives, what was awaiting the humanity. It is even possible that the beasts problem was not yet bad to the point of "you'll either become a beast, be eaten by a beast or become a Kin, humanity is DONE for!" ! This was an unethical research at the cost of real people! The weight of Maria's sin here really depends on the interpretation, though

As for the cycle of Dream and Hunt, this is complicated and lingers on one's interpretation of what the purpose of the Dream even IS! Its existence provides two things: 1) a hunter who is immortal for the night, thus can sustain the beasts with efficiency like no other, but also effect the continuity of the night ( x ) and 2) supposed sustenance to the Great One Flora of the Moon, who holds the hunt as a concept!

I used to be a bit more set on the idea that if beasts are not sustained and hunted, they will simply overpower those who are yet humans and eat them! It is a self-feeding cycle of people needing to self-defend from beasts, thus having to consume the blood as urgent means of healing and power-up since beasts are too strong, thus risking to become beasts themselves because the blood they consumed during that hunt corrupts them. So, the Hunter's Dream would be a good thing, as it'd help to 'buy time' during nights of the hunt in which not only beasts are more active but Great Ones too! While the Dreaming Hunter holds everything together, the greatest minds of the Healing Church can efficiently study the ways to end beasthood, or ANY problem of humanity, once and for all! It is just better to throw the hunting resources on the Dream, so the scientists don't worry about the beasts and can focus on research. However, I almost forgot that:

This implies that had there not been Mensis Ritual ongoing, people WOULD have the chance to simply 'wait away' the beasthood problem. That, since Rom is not stopping Mensis Ritual but just conceals it, what really makes the inner beast within everyone who consumed the blood inevitably come out is Mergo's cry that draws the Bloodmoon close!

So yeah, the point about Hunter's Dream being helpful for the research of evolution still stands, especially under assumption that the deal with Moon Presence helped to bring more Eldrich Arcane close for "feeding" her. The point about how if the beasts are not hunted they'll simply eat everyone, though, is vague. It is safer to assume that the Hunter's Dream and Research Hall both are both example of hubris of man even if approached differently. Attempts to draw in something dangerous and horrifying, but it is "justified risk" because if you manage to 'tame' arcane/blood, sure, humanity will prosper!

Like... yeah, sure, there IS dangerous and undesireable nature of man that ruins everything and might or might not still linger in humanoids' genes after Loran. But did humanity ASK any of you guys to keep trying to fix it with so many victims and sacrifices? Like, was it WORTH it?

This point is closely tied to 'knowing Laurence's bad antics and doing nothing', yeah. Maria didn't seem to like blood ministration very much, as she disapproved of Adeline becoming a Blood Saint, but she also didn't even approve of blood antics of her own clan! I am not sure what would be her opinion on the Hunter's Dream had she lived to the point when it was created, just that she herself is not willing to ever hunt, so I am leaving this point aside. Is this just blood ministration that she opposes but proximity with a Great One Moon Presence would be something she can see the potential of? Or would she and Gehrman have a pointless cat fight about whose methods are better when they are both hubris of man? In both versions they are 'guilty'! Besides:

In the end none of THIS matters either and everyone was fooled ( x ). The blood offering is a blood offering in any way; whether it is through spilling blood violently during the hunt, or offering the blood's 'red' with how celestial Kin all bleed red. Moon doesn't care what paints it red, in the end.

___________________________________

My conclusion is: both of these characters fucked up almost equally! I think the balance shifts just a little bit and Maria is slightly better than Gehrman since she had some limitations set on how far she was willing to go. Her motivation was not in "curiosity" but strictly in helping humanity, even if in unfair ways, which is apparently not the case for Gehrman?

I'll say this though, NOW I am hooked on the idea of Maria and Gehrman being petty "rivals" ideologically (for as long as they could before Maria's own demons caught up with her). Especially since neither approach is better than the other and they are both cringe loosers! Again, lost comedy gold over Fromsoft making Gehrman's tender and warm feelings for her before and after her death plain. What is not lost, however, is the fact that the two should just kick Laurence and go home :pensive:

#bloodborne #lady maria of the astral clocktower #gehrman the first hunter #again: blaming laurence is a solid strategy #honorable mention: even more of maria's blame might be lifted depending on how strong gehrman's influence was on her #we don't know when he started training her. maybe it was since very young age? so a lot of her actions as a hunter were unwise #again it depends because as of now she is a grown thinking woman and could have processed it BEFORE pregnant mother got killed-#-and her child stolen!#so I am on 'maria's agency' side here!#I think it is more like gehrman FEELS as though he 'ruined' her with the hunt #like you know how sometimes when we feel guilty we become illusioned about how much impact we had on another person's actions and feelings #we need to be TOLD that it was that person's choices in the end because we might feel like we 'controlled' them #and of course his guilt would be amplified and impossible to reason with considering she took her own life!#(as far as we can assume)#ask replies #bloodborne observation #bloodborne headcanons #analysis

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grvyrd-drms · 7 months

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Any hcs for female Creepypastas?? 🫶

the girlies 💞💞💞

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A/N: i chose just a few off the top of my head, if you want specific characters don't be afraid to ask <3

characters: nina, sally, natalie, zero, nurse ann

CW: some of these are so angsty for no reason lmao sorry guys

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-nina 1000000000% bisexual you literally cannot change my mind at all. girls are too pretty to ignore and jeff. exists.

-i like to think that nina has slightly gotten over jeff, but not completely. its like that one ex that you just can't get out of your mind no matter how long ago it was. she's still obsessed with him but doesn't make it her whole personality (she is in fact a human being with her own thoughts and feelings).

-sally is afraid of men. people love to show her being friends with E. jack or toby or ben, but i guarantee she's still petrified of any and all males in her life.

-not to feed into the fanon family idea but all the girls of the manor 100% understand sally and let her linger in their rooms when she's upset or frightened. most of them haven't been treated right either.

-natalie is like that one cool older coworker thats incredibly intimidating but incredibly cool at the same time. you wanna be friends so bad and she's like a fucking rabid dog.

-but nat can braid hair like a fucking PRO. she'd NEVER admit it but she would kill for a classic girly sleepover where they all do each others hair and nails.

-every single crp girl is sickly jealous of 'normal' teen girls. they want the relationships. the high school experience. the makeup. the gossip. the boys. the girls. their first car, their first job, research colleges. go to football games, get fast food late at night with friends. first dates to the movies, sleepovers with friends, all nighters binging netflix, shopping at the mall. all of it. every single crp girl dreams of it all.

-kate is selectively mute. in the time that she's been a crp she's only spoken a handful of times. she's just in a constant state of stress and fear basically.

-zero is SO ANNOYING and SO LOUD. she's like ben on steroids. she needs to make her presence known and you WILL acknowledge her (this comes from a deep down fear of her being forgotten and left behind but we don't have time for all of that).

-nat practically lives on a steady diet of beef jerky, red bull, and doritos. she has the cravings of a teen boy and it's petrifying.

-nurse ann is a WOMAN LOVER. have you SEEN those boobs and thighs. those are FOR WOMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! duh!!!!

-kate does and will bite. toby has the battle scars to prove it.

-sally is such a brat and everyone fucking loves it lmao. she guilt trips and throws tantrums and she'll swear every other sentence just because it's all things she's picked up around the manor.

-nurse ann's voice is like melted caramel and velvet. that shit is smooth and silky and she literally could seduce anyone without even trying (me).

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god i love women

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jedi-valjean · 1 year

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I think George's intended reading of Padmé in AOTC is not that she's creeped out by Anakin (except maybe when he says stuff like "you're exactly the way I remember you in my dreams" because there's no right way to react to that) but that she's got a crush on him from the beginning of the film. She wasn't prepared for him to be hot and she's a little flustered over it when they first meet. She's always liked Anakin as a friend, but now she likes him as that hot friend you secretly fantasize about without the intention of acting on it.

He couldn't be with her anyway because he's a Jedi, so it's not as if she's being presented with a difficult decision, Anakin or her career. He's not an option in the first place. That's why Anakin's advances make her uncomfortable— the choice isn't hypothetical if he's interested. Being with him is supposed to remain a private fantasy; her career is at stake if it bleeds into reality, not to mention his own position. She might even be afraid that she's encouraged this— after all, she does want him to like her, as you do when you have a secret crush. Even if you never intend to confess your feelings to them, you don't want to embarrass yourself and make them think awkwardly of you. (That's why she covered the cameras— what if she made a weird face in her sleep or her hair got messed up or something? Every time they interacted she'd wonder if he was thinking about how weird and unattractive she looks when she's asleep.)

Basically, Attack of the Clones isn't about an obsessively lovestruck boy winning over a woman who isn't initially interested, it's about two people who are crushing on each other like schoolchildren for the whole movie— Anakin's crush having been nurtured for ten years, Padmé's having come on suddenly when she laid eyes on Anakin all grown up. They're both trying to look good in front of each other, but their chemistry is best when they're genuine. Anakin can come off as very mature when he's not trying to prove it, and Padmé even acknowledges it. (Then he promptly ruins it by sulking about his teachers— Anakin hooking Padmé and awkwardly killing the moment is a running gag throughout the film, like when he said she was just as beautiful as he remembered in her dreams and they both cringed and tried to pretend he didn't say that.)

I think Anidala being mutual from the beginning (of their adult relationship) is better than "Padmé was mind-tricked," as it gives both characters more agency. Yes, Anidala is extremely codependent, but from both ends. Yes, Anakin is worryingly possessive, but he tries to conduct himself appropriately in social situations and is sheepish and apologetic when he crosses a line. Yes, Anakin slaughtered men, women, and children, but he's torn up with guilt over it and that tugs at Padmé's heartstrings. He demonstrates real maturity throughout the film— moments of it, anyway. This is what convinces Padmé to marry him. This is what convinces Obi-Wan and Yoda that they don't need to interfere in his relationship with Padmé, because he's shown he can be trusted to put his duty above his feelings. We know, of course, that Anakin is still just as much of a hot mess as his teachers fear he is— more, in fact. Occasional, even frequent moments of maturity do not indicate that he's actually emotionally stable or selfless or responsible, only that he has the capacity to be in certain situations.

#star wars #anidala #attack of the clones #aotc #anakin skywalker #padme amidala #anakin #padme #padmakin #meta #star wars meta #anidala meta

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booasaur · 8 months

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Can you imagine the horror Cruz felt the past few days, every day, unexpectedly falling deeply in love with this beautiful, lovely and kind woman and then the knowledge that she has to kill her father, actually take the life from someone this kind girl who loves her cares about. And having this conflict, this horror eating at her, corrupting her love for Aaliyah until she couldn't touch her without feeling all the guilt and disgust at herself. Now she also has regret to live with.

Oh, anon, I've been thinking of nothing else!

I was actually afraid after we left Cruz watching Joe's supercut of Amrohi's biggest hits, ep 8 would have her buying into the mission so it'd be more of an action oriented spy thing with Aaliyah only eventually adding a last minute conflict, but that wasn't the case at all! My girl remained cold to it and it stayed only a mission she had to carry out, nothing she believed in.

What's really struck me is that despite Joe and Kaitlyn's years more of experience and close dealings with the politicians and businessmen who showed this was all a game, Cruz saw the truth of the situation more clearly than they ever did, just by listening to Aaliyah. She was able to contrast both versions she was hearing and extract the reality in a way they never could because they never cared about the other side.

Cruz is terrible for undercover work because she treats her target like a human. That's really what it comes down to, right. She saw Aaliyah as a person and valued what she thought and felt and now here we are. And the worst thing for her is that Aaliyah didn't get through to her by being a funny, charming smokeshow (or not JUST that, lol), she was kind and vulnerable. Cruz may be bad at being a spy but she's a great soldier (as we saw in that kitchen, whew) and Aaliyah's exactly the kind of person she wants to protect. Credit to the show for letting us see how agonizing it was for Cruz to go against all her morals and instincts and everything in her to do this mission. The fact that she fell in love, needed and was needed by this one person, the tragedy of it all.

And actually, credit to Laysla De Oliveira as well! I've been praising Stephanie Nur a lot so far and as I mentioned, no shade to Laysla, but Cruz has been quite opaque and hard to read, as intended, I'm sure, she's supposed to be this tough marine AND is playing an undercover role, she mostly just reflected what Aaliyah threw at her. But these last two eps, gosh, she really brought ALL these additional layers. It really sold the romance, like, first, she was NOT faking in those last two eps, but just how guilty and anxious she was, and the anger and self-loathing at the end? Even that moment on the balcony looking out where she was all rueful, it was more subtle but still so expressive:

Honestly, I've actually really loved Aaliyah's character and was waiting for the finale to see if she lived so I could add her to my fave characters list, because I'm not gonna add a character who's built up just for an extra tragic death, but I've ended up adding BOTH. The strength of character Cruz showed in the end to realize and accept what's she'd done, and the kindness in believing both Aaliyah and even her dad deserved more grace, I found myself genuinely loving her by the end.

I really can't tell if she's going to return, but I hope so, she deserves more closure than that, they both do.

#replies #femslash related stuff #Anonymous #sent on 20230904 #5 #special ops: lioness #special ops lioness #special ops lioness 1x08 #aaliyah x cruz

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96percentdone · 4 months

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It is deeply frustrating to me that it is a relatively common opinion that Amame murdering Uru was a moral good because it was "justice", and she "stopped Uru." To be clear, they're right that he needed to be stopped. His plan was evil, whether he has the sanity to parse that or not (and he demonstrably does not), but I think that's entirely beyond the point of the claims about the morality of Amame's actions. Whether or not Uru was in the wrong (he was by every possible metric) is not a worthwhile question to ask when it comes to evaluating what justice is.

First, and I cannot emphasize this enough, Amame literally didn't stop him. She just objectively didn't! Yes, he died, but the present day half of the plot plays out fucking anyway because it turns out the genocidal maniac had contingency plans to carry out his scheme! His guys do it for him! He says in his own tapes he planned for this just in case! Is that stopping him? The Nirvana Initiative gets as far as the genocide missile launching before his plan is actually ended. I cannot stress this enough; ya boi straight up almost won at KILLING EVERYONE posthumously. Sorry, but the in universe team "Amame did nothing wrong" is like suffering terminal hindsight bias, which is hilarious, because all of them were literally there when Uru almost killed everyone on the earth from beyond the grave.

Moreover, because Amame (and Gen who is helping her) spend that entire period of time trying to keep the murder a secret, she ends up actively getting in the way of stopping his plan until on the day of the initiative she finally steps forward because she can't take the pressure and the guilt any longer. She keeps critical information about the exact problem they are dealing with--like the fact that the guy they're looking for is fucking dead--a secret on purpose! Whether or not the police would have gotten anywhere faster if he lived is irrelevant; her actions for what actually happened made things worse. And there's a good reason for this! It's the same reason she is utterly ravaged by guilt for her own actions, despite how hard she tries to convince herself and the world she has no regrets: murder is always wrong, and Amame wanted revenge.

Revenge murder really isn't this incredible healing force people can hype it up to be in their heads. Amame says she went because she wanted to hear what he had to say. She wanted closure. Now of course he's severely out of his mind and everything he said in that moment pissed her off, understandable, and she'd have to wait like 100 years for him to maybe parse he was wrong, so okay, but did the revenge work? "I'm going to make you suffer the same pain..." She waits for him to be conscious when she kills him, she is explicitly out to make him hurt, but like...was it actually effective? No, lmao. The funny thing is, that first line we see of that flashback where she kills him is Uru referencing his own torture: "Yes, this world is an imperfect one. I was put through much hardship." At this point, even if he didn't tell her the details, we the players know he was held prisoner in a cell for over two decades and had his organs harvested so frequently anesthetics stopped working on him. We are being deliberately reminded of this fact so that when Amame says her classic one-liner, we'll know it was for nothing.

Revenge isn't justice. You can convince yourself that it will be satisfying, it's what he deserves, it's what you deserve to do, but what's left when it's over? What did you really gain? Amame didn't gain anything. This didn't heal her at all. She still mourns her father the same, only now she has to deal with new, worse problems of her own making. She spends the last of her free days catatonic from fear and guilt, she hates that she betrayed Shouma and Gen and her actions will force her to leave them, because she lost sight of what matters most in the name of punishment. It will never matter that Uru was wrong. Amame killed Uru for the same reasons he killed her father, and Horadori, and Jin; how could she ever be right? The fallout of her actions on her own psyche and on the world at large is the greatest proof of that.

If your definition of justice is just "we destroyed the bad guy most responsible for the problem" your definition of justice is worthless. The world is not meaningfully made better by punishing wrongdoers, but by healing the social and political ills that lead to their creation and that ravage to the victims they left behind.

#hope.txt #doi amame #amame doi #aini #nirvana initiative #aitsf #my meta #truly the most frustrating part of this is this is a common opinion with amame likers #and its like #do you guys actually like the character that was written or what #do you respect her story at all #do you respect the immaculate tragedy to her writing at all or just the idea of sad killer girl uwu #i forgot to tag uru #to be fair to me tho im the only bitch who posts in there #uru somezuki #somezuki uru

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sapphire-weapon · 9 months

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me in the shower, just tryna shave my legs and have a normal night: you know, I'm really proud of that Leon and Ada boat scene meta post that I made earlier today. the biggest problem with Ada's character has always been that, outside of RE2, we never get a peek into her actual emotions at any point. she just seems to be a Sexy Spy Robot going on autopilot. but this is like, layered and nuanced and shit. it's interesting. my brain: hey me: ... uh oh my brain: you know what's really interesting about Leon and Ada's dynamic in the Remake series? me: ... oh god what is it just say it because this razor is very sharp and I have no wiggle room for bullshit. my brain: in OG, Leon always came off as naive and even a little bit childish due to his attachment to Ada. Remake is flipping that on its head. this time around, Leon is the mature adult in the room, and Ada is the one with a naive, almost childish worldview. me: ... what, you mean the whole "Leon is more comfortable with silence than Ada is" thing? I already did that part. my brain: bitch would I have piped the fuck up if that was it my brain: no, I mean the fact that people -- even you up to this point, dumbass -- have been misinterpreting the genesis of her redemption arc. it isn't that Ada discovers that she has a moral line in the sand that she won't cross. it's not like she reunites with Leon and, out of nowhere, has the epiphany "maybe killing people is bad, actually." me: ... go on... my brain: it's that she reunites with Leon and sees what he's become and feels incredible guilt over it -- and that's probably the very first time in actual literal years she's felt guilt over anything. me: ... so she... wants to avoid feeling guilty again...? is that what you're saying? my brain: yes, and the reason it's been so long since she's felt guilty about anything is because she doesn't ever ask why. she has no real sense of object permanence when it comes to what she's doing and who she's doing it for. she does her job and she shuts up and moves on to the next. it's an almost child-like mentality of "I just do what I'm told." and that's why Wesker is surprised to hear her ask for more information. when he says "I do not pay you to ask questions" it sounds like the very first time he's ever had to say that to her. ever. me: back up. how do you get from "feeling guilt over what happened to Leon" to "she's never questioned Wesker"??? my brain: Ada is extremely intelligent and, as a spy, curious and investigative by nature. if you think about how completely bewildered she was by Leon's change in attitude and demeanor, it only makes sense that she'd have a moment of "how the hell did this happen" followed up by the question of "what's driving him to fight so damn hard for a government that did what they did to him?" with the found answer that Cid gives Benedikta about Clive: "he's fighting for something he believes in." it's not about the government. it's about stopping something like what happened in Raccoon City from ever happening again. which then culminates in the thought: "why am I doing any of the things I'm doing? where are my efforts going, exactly? I guess I can just ask Wesker about it." me: holy shit me: you're right, it's not about drawing a moral line in the sand at all. that moral line has always been there. she just had no idea how close up on it she actually was. my brain: exactly. if not for her guilt over Leon, she would have never been inspired to ask Wesker what he plans on doing with the amber -- so, he would have never told her, and she would've handed it right over to him and been responsible for the deaths of billions. Ada is essentially learning for the very first time that her actions have consequences, like a toddler sticking a penny in a light socket. me: aight aight I feel u. but one thing to tack on: it's also probably not just Leon's influence at play here. there's probably something of Luis here, too. my brain: OH COOL I CAN MAKE IT EVEN WORSE THEN me: gODDAMN IT NO

#resident evil 4 #ada wong #leon kennedy

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rotisseries · 1 year

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not a fan of how ellie's agency is being talked about in this situation. obligatory disclaimer that everyone involved takes away her agency and that DOES include the fireflies and I DON'T support what they did either, because I obviously am a supporter of informed consent, and also from an emotional standpoint I am on joel's side because I do not want ellie dead and I wouldn't want him to make a different decision. but I will still probably talk about joel's decision more because that's the one that had a larger emotional effect on ellie.

anyway. baseline facts we need to establish here are that BOTH parties did. not. care. about ellie's agency. the fireflies do not ask her if she'd like to die for the cure, because they don't care what the answer is, they plan on getting that cure either way. joel ALSO does not care about ellie's agency in this situation. I've seen people say that he wasn't doing that because the fireflies "started it" or whatever, and that he was simply rescuing her from the inability to make that decision. and this is not entirely true, because he argues with marlene a fair amount, and if that mattered to him he probably would've tried to insist that marlene wake ellie up and ask her, but more importantly, even if ellie had been awake and said yes, he still would've taken her out of there, because she's his daughter, and he's not gonna let anyone take his daughter again. in that moment, for joel, it is very much about him and about how he does not want to lose another daughter. so both parties took away ellie's agency in this situation. the fireflies didn't give her an option to say no, and joel would not have let her say yes, so ellie had no agency here due to BOTH. PARTY'S. ACTIONS.

moving on, I've seen a fair amount of talk about how joel is in the right because as a parent he's the only one who should be able to make that decision. I've seen things about how ellie is 14 and traumatized, and so she could not truly consent. and it's not that I disagree entirely with those points, ellie IS traumatized, and a large part of her desire to give her life for a cure comes from her survivors guilt. I also generally wouldn't want to put the fate of the world on a 14 year old's shoulders. where I'm having the problem though, is that in this situation, to me, even with those points, ellie is STILL the only one qualified to make these decisions about her life. not marlene. not joel. just ellie.

first of all, I feel like this is a situation in which no one, no matter age or trauma level, could truly consent. "die for this or doom the world" is an inherently coercive situation, so true consent just can't be reached honestly. but with that established, I don't see why ellie isn't equally as capable of consenting as anyone else. there's no saying she doesn't truly get the gravity of this situation, she gets it probably better than most, she's seen lots of death. and we also can't hold a 14 year old in the apocalypse to the standards of a 14 year old in our world. ellie should not have gone through the things she's been through, she shouldn't have the world on her shoulders, but she's in this situation regardless, what difference does another 4 years make here? and I think it's incorrect to say this makes her incapable of deciding what happens with her life. "she's traumatized and has survivors guilt" what if this was joel? joel has canonically suffered survivor's guilt, and he tried to kill himself. if he was the one who was immune, could he truly consent? or would he not be in the right mental space for it? if this were a 14 year old in our world with a medical condition of some sort that put them in a situation where they had to decide whether they wanted to live or not, I would still want that 14 year old to have the autonomy to decide. I wouldn't want that decision to be just up to their parents, it's not the parent's life!!

and most critically, who other than ellie should even be allowed to make this decision? if you think a parent should be allowed that agency over their kids life, that's fair, but joel, as much as he loves her, is not her parent. they care about each other a lot, but he is still just a man she's traveled with for a year. she's been alone her entire life, and now, when it matters most, should decisions about herself, and her life, go to someone else?

#just. idk. “joel as the parent made the decision he had the right to” he is not actually her parent though #idk. just. feels like it's veering into “ellie viewed only as an extension of joel” territory sometimes. idk #this is a bit long winded isn't it. sorry #tlou #tlou hbo #the last of us #the last of us hbo #ellie williams

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darkpoisonouslove · 7 days

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💛 Yellow

Hi! Thanks for the ask!

💛 Yellow: Do you ever alter, highlight, or de-emphasize certain canonical traits in a character? If so, why and describe how.

Since you didn't send a specific character and I already did Valtor, I'll go ahead with Griffin. I intensify pretty much every part of her character if we're being honest. But let's look at the main things:

I'm of the opinion that they made her too nice post 1x17. It almost feels like she's a different character afterwards. The only time we see her doing some truly questionable shit is when she kind of used the Winx as bait for the Trix in 2x18 (which the RAI dub tries to deny but that is pretty much what happened). I think she should be allowed to be ruthless and scathing but she'd have to be a force that the plot has to take into account for that to happen in canon so I see why they didn't really do it (though it was somehow okay for her to almost kill the Winx in 1x06). So fics will have to do. I try to show that she's calculative, kind of always scheming or at least analyzing a situation to figure out what the other party wants from her (the exception being most of her interactions with Faragonda because I don't think she'd feel the need to be on guard around her outside the periods of time when they're basically enemies).

I definitely lean very firmly into her familiarity with Valtor, which I think was absolutely something they should have done on the show. Forget shipping but the fact is that she worked with him and he himself - even after she betrayed him - speaks very highly of what they could do together. Showing the similarities between them and how well she knows him - even through a little dialogue with the Winx ffs if they didn't want to devote a lot of screen time to that - would have set up Valtor and his story better. But forget canon! I like to really make her specifically very familiar with his methods (when it comes to him, I don't think he'd know her that well anymore after his imprisonment in Omega but he could definitely read her very well before). I try to show that by making her have a pretty easy time figuring out what he's planning and seeing through his words.

Since she was hinted to show remorse and guilt over the situation with the Trix, I can't imagine her existing without some kind of leftover guilt for her actions in the past as well. Especially when she's faced with Valtor and her former partnership with him. This I don't really begrudge canon for ignoring (they did imply she felt guilty for working with him) since it's been 17 years and Griffin is bound to try to repress that shit when Valtor is around and would have a field day poking her about it. And in general, she'd probably try to keep it locked down as much as possible. Seeing her fail a little would have been nice but this is a lot more pertinent to the CoL era so I'm not complaining too much that they didn't do anything with that in the show. It is somewhat a cornerstone of my fics though because they focus on her almost exclusively (not to mention that it also annoys Valtor).

#winx club #winx griffin #griffin x valtor #ask #dariaslore #winx meta #kind of

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lady-murderess · 1 year

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I don't think Wednesday and Eugene's relationship gets spoken about enough.

It's wholesome.

It's nice that she's taken him under her wing and the fact that he reminds her of Pugsley makes her that little bit more human - regardless of whether she'd like that or not.

Clearly, she took Eugene under her wing because she felt she had some sort of relation to him, which would be the fact that the two of them are outcasts among outcasts. They don't fit in. Even though Wednesday would much prefer not to fit in with the crowd, she perhaps saw that it was much different for him and he was on the outside looking in, wanting to belong. It's like one of his mums said, "He hasn't had the best time fitting in." And he couldn't stop talking about Wednesday joining the bee club because he was finally not alone. He had someone.

To be honest, the whole dynamic is sweet when you think about it. She sticks up for him and is more than willing to drag him along on her little investigation.

During Outreach Day, she involves herself and protects him from Lucas and his cronies, and once she's pulled him aside, she wipes off the vomit from his face and goes on to admit: "You remind me of my brother. Sans the desire to strangle him every waking moment." Despite being reminded of her brother, Wednesday doesn't have the same feelings towards him as she does Pugsley. She doesn't feel the need to torture him, perhaps she feels that he goes through enough in Nevermore? And maybe when it comes to Pugsley, she feels she can be evil to him because well... that's what siblings do in a way, and it's sort of the same premise of how Wednesday and Pugsley are towards Pubert in Addams Family Values (1993).

And when it comes to Eugene... Hummers stick together.

Wednesday is quick to go after Eugene once she gets that vision at the Rave'N. Yes, if she had a vision of anyone else getting attacked by the Hyde, she would of course go. But it would be out of curiosity of the monster and how it killed its victim. But because it's Eugene, it's personal. There's more of an urgency to go as she does not hesitate to go to him, she isn't going to do a full inspection of a crime scene, it's to try and help him.

Not only did she ask Thing to monitor him once he was admitted to the hospital, she also harvested the honey and brought him it. Wednesday visited him in hospital frequently and talked to him regardless of the fact that he could not engage in conversation, and clearly regretted not realising he'd go into the woods anyway, or even the fact that she didn't go with him. "The bees miss you, Eugene. We all do." is how she tells him she misses him as she uses the word "we" instead of "I". Perhaps some others do miss him too, but it isn't really all that deep. Yes, there is most likely empathy and concern among the people who know him, but there's no personal connection there.

And it's clear that Wednesday holds the guilt of what happened to him on her shoulders. "It should be me in that bed." she tells Thing, and has a look of guilt that she wears every time we see her visit him, she is remorseful.

And look, she's more than willing to even to call Weems out for him too. Because what is she doing to protect Eugene? Turning a blind eye to what's happening around the school isn't helping anyone and got him into danger.

It's the fact that she's relieved to see him awake too. It's in her eyes.

I could say more but we'd be here all day. So, all I'll say is that I look forward to seeing them together again in the next season.

#i fucking love their dynamic #wednesday addams #eugene ottinger #wednesday netflix #lady murderess #gamsgifs #my gifs

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rms10 · 3 months

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Assuming Azula ever manages to work through her issues and get de-Sozinized, do you think Azula is ever capable of reconciling with Zuko, Ursa, Mai, Ty Lee, Ursa, and/or Iroh?

Because it seems pretty clear from her solo comic that she did care for them, or at least wanted them in her life, and was/still is deeply hurt by their "betrayals." So it seems highly likely that once she worked through her issues and indoctrination, she would be willing to do anything to have them back in her life, this time on healthier grounds.

And this is supported, at least in regards to Mai, by the canon cookbook, which happens if I remember correctly around 15 years after the end of the war and has Mai and Azula on such good speaking terms that Mai can tease Azula about her "cherry-pit incident."

But on the other hand, her solo comic strongly suggested that part of the reason why she rejects redemption is because she doesn't want to deal with the pain that would come from acknowledging she hurt her loved ones.

So it is seems equally likely that she would avoid reconciling with them due to a mix of guilt, self-loathing, and, in regards to Mai and Ty Lee, not wanting to force herself upon them again. Especially since, in regards to the latter proposition, is implied that Azula didn't punish the Fire Warriors for leaving her since she didn't want to repeat her mistakes with Mai and Ty Lee.

However, even if she was willing to reconcile with her loved ones, they may not want to reconcile with her, even if she did everything humanly possible to make amends to them, after everything she did to them and/or their loved ones, with Ursa in my opinion being the only one who would have true, unconditional love, and thus forgiveness, for Azula.

In fact, in my opinion, the comics and extended lore have all but said this is be the case for Mai and Ty Lee, and I think Zuko after the events of S&S would feel the same way as well.

So do you think Azula is ever capable of reconciling with Zuko, Ursa, Mai, Ty Lee, Ursa, and/or Iroh, and if so, to what degree?

This is an interesting question, and really feeds back into whether Azula can be redeemed and what any redemption for her will look like. At the end of the show, we see her broken down, severely damaged and traumatized by losing at the only thing she still pictured herself as being superior at. It left her on the edge, where her story could be take anywhere. In fact, in many ways she has the most open-ended future of anyone at that point. Our central protagonists mostly have fairly well defined futures for them, and of course those are largely confirmed in LoK.

The comics really didn't do Azula any favors because of how she was written in S&S. (The comics were fairly poor on staying true to representation of all the characters, so she isn't unique.) However, they weren't wrong in painting Zuko as wanting to reconcile with her, and I think he'd welcome her back with open arms, so long as he's convinced she's not a threat to his family. As you note, Ursa would reconcile at any level she can with Azula. Despite having little choice in all the damage Azula received in her upbringing, Ursa still harbors guilt over it. She'll even take risks for herself if there's any opening for reconciliation.

Really, Mai's acceptance of Azula is going to be largely driven by Zuko's interest, since they'll reconcile at some point in the future. (The comics really made a hash out of maiko, but also made it pretty clear that they'll reconcile.) For Mai, it'd take an actual apology and proof that Azula recognized how horrible she'd been in the past to have any chance of a real reconciliation. Given that Azula was about to kill her, Mai would keep her distance and probably be a bit overprotective of Izumi around Azula, without some kind of full acceptance of her guilt by Azula.

Ty Lee goes off to join the Kyoshi Warriors, so she's in a different position in that she doesn't need to interact with Azula at all, if she doesn't want to. She found her new sisters (where she's part of a chosen matched set, lol) and may not travel back to the Fire Nation that much. She's so happy and bubbly that it's easy to assume she'd just accept Azula back, but I'm not certain that would really happen when she gets away from that toxic "friendship" and finds a real group to interact with. She might be willing to forgive, but at the same time have no real interest in reconnecting.

Thanks for the ask. These Azula asks are interesting in that she's not a character I've ever thought all the deep about post ATLA, so an aspect of those show to go explore a bit more now.

#avatar the last airbender #azula #zuko #ursa #iroh #mai #ty lee

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darksidescorner · 5 months

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1, 4, 5, 6, and 7 for the trauma ask game plez :)) (with ur doc ock variant oc)

1. She's from a single parent, her mother. She and her mother are very close. They look VERY similar, and talk the same. Unfortunately, due to Alchemax, they aren't as close anymore. Turns out, being broken down to zero empathy isn't good for your social life regardless of who they are. Last time they saw each other, V. was in the middle stages of her "breakdown".

Her mother is proud, but worried. Then there was just a straight up loss of communication when Olivia went to prison/therapy (prison reforms in 2099 <3)

4. Considering how I'm about to rewrite ATSV with my OC, I'm not sure. But I'll use the old one.

It has to be either the time she realized all the safeguards are off, or the chase scene aftermath.

The safeguards gave her control over the tentacles instead of vice-versa. The moment she realized the consequences of her complacency, she was a WRECK. She lived in fear for a long time, before she began to embrace the cold of barely any human connection.

The Chase Scene aftermath has to be up there because she saw Miguel, someone she loves so dearly, lose his shit. Fair enough, the pressure has been ever-mounting since the death of Gabi. But... she's also pissed. In her own words to Miguel,

"You went harder on a TEEN than you did ME! AND I'VE KILLED PEOPLE, MIGUEL!"

There's a lot of guilt and "What ifs" from her regarding Miles. She had no clue it would have gotten this bad, there was no way for her to know (in this AU, the garbage can throw doesn't happen. Miguel isn't as harsh). But here we are. She swears to protect Miles. She'd rather have the blood of trillions on her hands, just like Miguel, than not try.

Needless to say, it's on sight if they see each other.

5. YEP. MANY.

I'm going to put a photo in here of the doc I have of her that explains it.

She does not want to kill. In fact, she doesn't fight for the Spider Society AT ALL (subject to change). She feels extremely guilty for the deaths of those subjects, after therapy of course. Coming to terms with that is hard.

However, if she had to, she will kill again.

6. Going back to what she was. She's terrified of being the monster she once was.

She never wants Spiders to be afraid of her. Unfortunately, due to factors that aren't her fault or the Spider's, that doesn't always happen. She reminds a lot of Spiders of their own Doc Ock.

She's scared that if she ever goes back to fighting, she'll like it. Just like she once did. She's a major pacifist in that regard.

Every once in a while, there might be an anomaly variant of her. One that never recovered. One that remains cruel. Olivia usually stays out of the Go-Home room that day.

7. Semi-easily.

For simple, sometimes silly things? Incredibly easy. Miguel has caught her with tears running down her face because one of her snails was holding an algae pellet and eating it. He has also caught her quietly happy crying in her office because one of the Spiders warmed up to her after being previously afraid of her, and even asked her for help (she's basically the mom of everyone at HQ, especially the teens).

When it comes to the heavy shit? She is really good at not crying until later. She doesn't even do it on purpose, she just can't cry initially.

In fact, she usually just glazes over for a bit. When it's happening/the news is being delivered to her. She's very straight faced about all of it, allowing her to handle the situation a bit. As soon as she's alone and can begin breaking it down, she fucking SOBS.

Example: Gabrielle's death. She stayed strong for Miguel. Think Selina for Bruce in Injustice after Dick Grayson died. But after Miguel inevitably cried himself to sleep, she went to the living room and cried as well. She's VERY good at silent crying. But that night? She wasn't completely silent. That's how hard she was crying.

#V. Octavius #spiderman oc #miguel o'hara

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manderleyfire · 1 year

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i was hoping you're gonna be on board cristonalicent with me *sad noises* all that repressed sexuality and false uprightness... delicious

but i am??? kinda?? like i definitely on board with him being that fanatically loyal mad dog seeking redemption at her delicate royal feet? (it seems suddenly so hard not to bring alicent's feet into conversation, lol) and yes, it's almost delightful to observe his frustrated lust and worshipful love towards ali, especially when they're both so eager to convince the audience (and each other) that they are the mother and the warrior themselves, walking the earth in mortal flesh, lol. i love how they're always SO close but still not enough, playing their parts oh just perfectly because they share but never ACT on that forbidden intimacy, which is there, right between them. exactly because of these reasons i find this ship (just like you said) delicious in their own falsehoods and hypocrisies, but it's not a lie if you believe it and both of them are ... supreme believers as we know, xddd.

here comes the 'but': that's yearning, repressed carnal desire, soft mutual understanding (aren't they both betrayed by rhaenyra?) and respect they obviously have to each other for being (it seems) the only ones who know their place and duties by heart... it only works if their relationship is gonna be as it is – pious and chaste. they want one another because they fit their parts like a glove: devoted, handsome lord commander of the kingsguard and virtuous noble queen. break those boxes and they would die from shame, guilt and self-flagellation. but alicent looooves her box, she'd never ever try to shatter it, in fact that's precisely why she's comfortable with him willing to spill blood right in front of her (she even saved him simply because he would be loyal to HER for that forever) but simultaneously she despises larys for doing the same. cole is a perfect knight, her sworn protector, who's devoted to her and to the safety of her family, so killing for alicent's sake is his duty but larys... larys kills for her with no mask to hide under (well... that's not entirely true; but let's talk about the shady strong another time, what i mean here that blood on criston's hands is dignified by his looks position while on larys' it's blindingly red red as her hair) , he sees through her and that's why she can't fully pretend with him (but she needs to pretend, always, 24/7, to herself as well, that's what the iron throne requires, that's what her son -- the king -- needs and don't forget, she's the only one who's actually capable of being a perfect daughter queen).

so yes, on the 'you're sworn to me' path their journey is on – i'm so here for this ship but on the big picture i think ali is too hot and young and messy to be admired as a saint.

#ask #criston x alicent #in other words criston loves the queen alicent that he has created in his mind and so does she #he would die for her kill for her shake the earth and conquer the whole essos for her approval and attention #but he would despise her just like he's looking down on rhaenyra now if alicent falls of that perfect queen's pedestal #that's why i enjoy them in that religiously platonic way they're serving so well unhinged yet soft pretending of an almost married union #he's a perfect image of absent father to her kids and a husband she's never known #she's an ideal lady in his eyes the maiden and the mother joint in one woman #they need their little 'performances of virtue' to trust each other and to be attracted to each other too #and it's all gonna end up in flames if they discover the ugly parts of true selves #let them pray for their sins in the sept for hours instead #bad for their knees good for their souls or so i heard

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writingf3 · 7 months

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Did you know that years repeat themselves at a weird pattern, but one of those loops is Every 6 Years? 6 years ago my friend hung herself on Monday the 23th, died on Wednesday the 25th, and I saw her body before organ transplant on Friday the 27th. I always thought that the days of the week just progress by one day each year, like, Halloween sometimes is on Thursday, the next year it'd be on Friday, and so on. But somehow it syncs up every 6 years. This year Monday is the 23rd again and I feel particularly close to her-- find myself wondering if she knew she was going to do it now but 6 years ago, on only the 14th.

There are many things I could say about the ordeal, how a few hours before seeing her body I had to go to the orthodontist because I needed to get my braces off before college and it was very hard to reschedule with him. I remember telling him I was in a hurry and he asked if I had any fun plans and I thought about saying "I have to go see my friends dead body" but I ended up saying nothing. I could talk about how none of our parents drove us two hours to the hospital so we crammed in our rich friend's new Mercedes that she could barely drive, and on the way home we were so in shock and so distraught that she drove on the wrong side of the freeway and we almost got in a head on collision. Even at the time it was funny-- we were starving, hadn't eaten in a week and decided to go to a buffet instead of arguing about different types of food-- and we sat at the table and picked at the soups and salads and laughed about the imaginary headlines: "5 friends dead driving home from seeing their friend's dead body."

There's an incredible rawness in these moments, us laughing a the table when only an hour previously we were holding her dead hand, our eyes swollen, no way to grasp at all that this was the situation we were in except to simply bare it. There were so many weird, cheesy-highschool-movie scenes that year. Me, sitting in english class the morning after hearing the news, the popular girls whispering that they wish they knew what happened, me practically feeling the camera zoom in, the dramatic lighting, an acknowledgement that I knew exactly what had happened and they didn't. Being excited that I found my funeral dress for $5 on sale at Holister, being revolted by the outfit they had decided she'd wear in the coffin. The pastor saying people who commit suicide don't necessarily all go to hell, and laughing because I had never even heard that myth before. Watching 13 Reasons Why, which had just come out, because I was too numb to feel the plot that I had basically just lived through. Visiting her grave on prom night, long silhouettes of dresses against the grass, getting back in the car and resuming the dance music.

It's easy to wallow in the misery of grief and less easy to talk about the other emotions-- the laughter and anger-- though they're certainly experienced in tandem. My last conversation with her was about using bandaids as pasties, and now I think about her every time I do that. I wore that $5 dress to my high school graduation and to my college graduation because she was the only reason I got good grades to begin with, we were horribly competitive, but she killed herself the day before her Princeton Admissions interview. I have to love her yet simultaneously live with the fact that she ruined all of my important milestones, prom, both graduations, and that I can blame her yet can't in any logical sense, this was something she never could have foreseen, her 17 year old brain clearly not working correctly to begin with. I don't feel guilty about this anger, though. She was my friend and not a saint, and I find myself feeling angry at her as if she was yelling at me in track practice (which she often did-- "I'm going to die" "No you're not, you need to go faster.") The guilt I did develop was a sense of survivors guilt. She was only the second of my three friends who killed themselves, and I often wonder why I haven't done it myself, wonder how I survived whatever was happening in my town socioeconomically. When people bring up their high school jobs I have to fight the urge to tell them that the only person I knew with a job in high school killed herself, that all of us were so focused on grades and internships and clubs and sports that when she added that last element it was too much, she had gone too fast.

6 years later, I guess, a perfect daily match, though there is an invisible threshold I'll never know, the turning point of when it switched from suicidal ideation to active suicidality. I can live in the 23rd-27th but I can't live in the present moment, can't know when or what she thought about right now, just 6 years prior. And I'm angry about this, angry about the 23rd-27th, angry that any of this had to happen at all, wish she would have spoken up, wish an adult had noticed, wish everything had been different entirely.

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myriadof-fandoms · 2 years

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Please give us the essay 🥺

damn thank you for indulging me 👉👈 i'd love nothing more so:

let's start this of with probably my fav thing about stranger things: subtext. so much of this show, of these characters is subtext. especially when it comes to billy. there is not a lot actually explicitly stated in the show about his character. a lot that is treated as a fact is made up by the fandom by what really is more subtext of the scenes we see with him. particularly from season 2.

apropos season 2 billy. definitely not a great brother figure i think we can all agree. a reckless 17-year old with a lot of anger issues. i have a whole essay about the different possible characterisations of him too, someone stop me. his interactions with max? not great. absolutely not great. i personally think calling it abusive goes a bit far but that's just me. i also think there is a lot to be said for his actions maybe being screwed up ways of showing affection but that again is another essay in itself.

however as it is in season 2 we have: no kind words between max and billy, no real emotion unless it's anger or fear or frustration, max specifically talking with obvious disdain about him.

what do we have in season 3? none of the above.

i mean even s2 ends with billy looking at max in something that looks like contemplation, there's no disdain, and i would venture to say even affection in his look but obviously that's subjective. what isn't subjective is that despite max taking him out before, the season doesn't end violently between them. it ends just with them looking at each other.

now in s3? things are vastly different.

when max talks about billy in s3 it's in a way that just screams annoyed little sister. "wrong is kind of his default" said while smiling. to her friend. no reason to be pretending. and while they are in his room. listen my good dudes idk but that's not really what you'd do if you were being abused by someone.

especially bc in s2 max was clearly scared of billy and what he'd do. she was visibly scared when he held her arm in the car, she made lucas stay behind in the arcade, she turned the steering wheel, "he'll kill me, he'll kill us". if she'd been feeling that fear in s3 still she probably would not have gone as far as to enter his room. she was actively trying not to aggravate him before and in s3 it doesn't seem at all like she fears any consequences from him.

another important point: she is obviously upset by the idea of billy being flayed. she says so multiple times. she denies the chance of it. not particularly how you'd expect someone to react if they were feeling indifferent or hateful towards someone?

she also offers him up to be spied on by el in the first place. again why'd she do that if she were feeling as upset by him as she was in the previous season? also the only thing she warns eleven of is billy potentially being with a girl. like that's the worst she could imagine him doing.

max is also not particularly surprised by how nice billy acts when they find him with the holloways. when he is being perfectly polite, introduces her as his sister, and is nice to her. sure she looks a bit confused in the moment but ultimately summarises the evening to mean he's normal.

the sauna scene. honestly. the main point. she at first doesn't even want to do it. my baby is deep in denial. "i hope it's not you." and then she is visibly upset when they do put him in the sauna. before he's activated billy is begging her to believe him. and listen my dudes if he was feeling spiteful or disdainful towards her? he probably wouldn't be doing that. "please believe me max" he trusts her. when she asks him to explain further, he does. she wants to help him. there's enough affection between them that seeing him completely breaking down makes max cry.

moving onto my least favourite scene: his death. max' shock upon seeing him dying and begging for him to stay alive. mh. yeah idk. her guilt in s4 as well (i'm not gonna go into what else went on in s4 bc i'm not yet done with my rewatch) oh also just that she touches him without hesitance when he's on the floor. and sure he's clearly wounded but there is no hesitance on her side to get in his space at all. same as before when she was trying to get through to him when he was coming towards her, eleven and mike. she stands there and talks to him right until he is in her space and doesn't flinch away from him. yes abuse or hate are different and don't show for everyone the same way but also. this is very atypical behaviour, at multiple times just saying.

then there is the obvious grief. (granted i think grief itself doesn't necessarily mean that the person who's gone wasn't abusive or just shitty, simply bc it's not as black and white as people would like to make it out to be.) and then i mean obviously people grieve differently but also i personally think the fact that she is shown in his room does kind of point towards a better relationship too, it's a clear admittance at least to herself that she is missing him to a degree. she is seeking out his presence in a way? from what i know about grieving someone you didn't particularly want around the part of missing them is hard to accept. but again not my main point and also not a fact just yk my personal thoughts.

lastly i could also bring up my favourite thing ever: in s2 max knows how to drive the camaro and someone has to have taught her. it was billy and you can't change my mind. so even before s2 maybe there was a better relationship? .. there could be other clues for that too but yeah no i think i've made my point:

billy hargrove and max mayfield had an at least decent relationship by s3, thank you for your time. @ the duffers i'll meet you about this in a parking lot somewhere and i'll bring my k*ll nancy instead of steve presentation.

#.. i put too much thought into this show #sigh #thank you anon #i appreciate getting to talk so much lmao #i have so many feelings about billy hargrove #stranger things #billy hargrove #max mayfield #my favourite siblings #ask #anon

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