#discourse & drama

[tyetknot]

*carefully tosses a golden apple labelled 'TO THE LEAST PROBLEMATIC' into the middle of witchblr discourse*

#Witchblr #Drama #The discourse #KALLISTI #Wicca #Witchcraft #Pagan

[b0bs0ndugnutt]

Because the “shrodinger’s queerbait” nonsense will never go away, indulge me an analogy (and a long post).

wlw ships are the “made from scratch” cake in a world where we only ever expect cake mix from the box.

Say you have a show where, in the first interaction between a male and female character, there is a red box. It could be a Betty Crocker box of cake mix. Because all it takes is just one smile — one wink — one raised eyebrow— and the fans don’t question it. We’re clearly making a cake here. The box is red.

Meanwhile, you have two female characters building their own relationship that have elements that could build to romance. There are eggs in the fridge. A few more episodes, there’s flour in the pantry. Sugar. Baking powder. Queer fans start whispering…we could be making a cake here. Other fans scoff “you will read into anything. They’re just eggs! Everyone has eggs in their fridge!” Maybe so, maybe not. They are written off as discrete ingredients, nothing to see here.

That red box is still sitting in the pantry. Obviously we’re going with that one, and it’s definitely cake mix. That guy and girl stood next to each other again.

The wlw relationship is now full-on batter. It was a cake recipe all along, but it’s not baked yet. The crowd that wrote off every ingredient is now saying the writers are just going to “squander” that box that could be ready-made cake mix or that they’re being “forced” to bake a cake with the very ingredients the writers deliberately bought and put in their pantry.

Now it’s in the oven, the cake is baking. That crowd will still insist it’s forced, or maybe its actually something else, or it’s rushed, or it’s pandering. Whether the writers painstakingly built a pantry to make the cake they truly wanted or they were cultivating good ingredients and realized they had the fixings for a more decadent cake and went there, it doesn’t matter. It’s still a recipe. One that fans who always have to piece together ingredients had hoped for or saw from the get-go, despite being scoffed at and disparaged. Just because that crowd didn’t see (or refused to see) those ingredients as part of a whole, doesn’t make it any less of a recipe.

And wlw fans shouldn’t have to keep writing essays to demonstrate that the wlw “cake” has all the ingredients every cake mix does, or keep pointing out that fans were ready to believe a cake was being baked when they saw a nondescript box, but that they’ll do anything to discredit or doubt the cake from scratch that’s now cooling off on the counter.

It is partly a function of heteronormativity from the audience in immediately seeing romance in any whisper of interaction between m/f characters and passing off all charged interactions between female characters are sisterly or platonic. And it also comes from writers, who are either being cautious so as not to spook corporate overlords or audiences, or who are preserving plausible deniability.

To take the analogy further, box cake mix is fine! It works! It is, practically speaking, what a lot of folks know by default. I thought I was a Duncan Hines girl once myself. Vanilla cake mix has the ingredients measured out, it’s a safe bet, it tastes like cake.

But it doesn’t mean every red box is cake mix. And it doesn’t make the cake that had to be pieced together from scratch due to censorship, caution, time, narrative build-up, what-have-you, any less of a cake.

#Also this is a pillsbury cake mix hate blog so it doesnt count. The good ones have red boxes. #are we discoursing on this fine evening? Why not. #This could be about literally any wlw ship #but as someone who binged 8 volumes of rwby before 9 and missed all the drama but sees the vestiges of it years later somehow #its wild to me. Because as someone who saw the narrative in one gulp #it is very obvious they have put a lot of love and attention into Bumbleby #anyway this applies to #Bumbleby #korrasami #clexa #bubbline #harlivy #i could keep going #Having to defend a wlw ship like it’s a dissertation EVERY TIME is exhausting #And the fact that wlw fans have been burned before shouldn’t be wielded as a sword and a shield every time a wlw ship is viable

[edenfenixblogs]

Well Drawfee is officially no longer safe media for me :(

Karina liked multiple tweets conflating a PSA for antisemitism with Israeli propaganda and claiming that Israel planned its assault to coincide with the superbowl…

Julia liked posts claiming that the war isn’t a war. Nobody has liked anything about antisemitism or even acknowledging Jews are in danger right now.

TBH I’m devastated.

I have Drawfee art all over my home. I was actually gonna become a patron this year. I’d literally been saving to make it feasible. This is crushing. I feel sick.

#leftist antisemitism #antisemitism #drawfee #heartbroken #debated putting this in the Drawfee tag or not #but ultimately I think it’s important #I don’t wanna start fandom drama or Discourse TM #I just want there to be a record of how their silence on antisemitism #and liking of conspiratorial tweets #is affecting a very fragile community #and Nathan being Jewish doesn’t change this for me #his Jewishness does not shield me from his coworkers antisemitism #even though I wanna believe that antisemitism is unintentional #and I’m so happy for Nathan if he feels supported by his friends and coworkers #he obviously knows them better than I ever will #and I’m not calling in Jews to take sides over this or anything #I’m happy that Nathan doesn’t seem to be affected by this #it must mean he has a wonderful support system and that his friends and coworkers are better #at showing their support irl than they are online #and that is important and valid #but it doesn’t change how it affects Jews like me who only experience them through a screen #and do not have a support system #they don’t owe me anything #I don’t expect anything from any of them #but I also cannot deny that I am harmed #by the fact that they didn’t acknowledge the conflict until it affected people who aren’t Jewish #and have still not acknowledged that it affects people who are Jewish #and I especially cannot handle Karina’s clear support for the idea that a Super Bowl PSA for antisemitism prevention #is somehow a sinister Israeli plot and not evidence of the terrible time that Jews like me are having rn #I feel like I lost a friend tbh

[werewolf-cuddles]

Gotta love how "If a character was introduced to us as a minor, then they are FOREVER a minor, even if they canonically grow up" is just accepted as a normal thing to think by some weirdos.

Like, i stg, there are still people who insist Korra is a minor because she was 17 in Book 1, despite the fact that she's 18 in Books 2 & 3, and 21 by the end of the series.

And I'll never forget that one screenshot where some dipshits on Tik Tok said it was creepy that the characters from Naruto canonically grew up and had children.

Anti-ship discourse has fucking warped people's perception of what's normal to a ridiculous degree.

#fandumb #ship drama #fanpol drama #art police #age discourse #proship

[skrifores]

“You have to at least consider the interpretation of Ed as an abuser…”

I don’t have to do shit, hope that helps.

#ofmd fandom #ofmd #our flag means death #edward teach #the drama the discourse the pain #fandom is suffering #for fucks sake though

[hot-take-tournament]

HOT TAKE TOURNAMENT!

GREATEST HITS!

Submission 474

vocaloids (and all similar non-Yamaha-owned vocal synths) are bad. all of them.

It's a mockery of the human voice. Frye from Splatoon 3 of all things is the closest we will ever get to having any interesting vocal technique in a voice synth bank. Singing styles around the world are so interesting and take so much skill and you abandon them for a glorified MIDI file? I also blame them for the rise of AI-generated covers, because they first started the devaluing of the human voice and the usage of it as an instrument - a really boring one that will never know advanced or diverse technique. Congrats, Miku made Minecraft, now all of SpongeBob has sang Billie Jean by Michael Jackson. At least the SpongeBob characters have distinct and interesting voices.

[from follow up asks]

hello. vocaloid take submitter here.

i didn't expect my submission to gain as much traction as it did, i thought it was lukewarm at best. i thought there were more vocaloid haters out there. this is tumblr, though, so i guess not. still think vocaloid is ass though.

i will say, it might add context to my take that i myself am a singer and have natural perfect pitch. while i haven't sang in any professional capacity, i've still done some voice training and lots of lower level performances. i have very strong feelings about singing, and hold what the human voice can do in high regard.

i also have a better ear for picking up smaller things in the human voice (re: natural perfect pitch) and the difference between humans and vocaloid is extremely striking to me. no amount of tuning can make a vocaloid not sound lifeless to me, because i will never, ever hear a human voice, and instead of letting the lead of the song Not Be Vocals - which has never been a novel concept - they HAVE to put the voice bank in.

also, re: "frye isn't a voice bank dumbass", congrats! you took away something i felt was actually interesting! god i wish more people knew about more singing styles that they couldn't easily replicate!

while now i know that AI voices are not a continuation of vocaloid, sorry, still think it's bad, go to hell and learn to compose a song without lyrics.

also - still the vocaloid take submitter - to continue:

i will eventually send a link to a playlist of all of the Vocaloid songs i have ever listened to, because i am sure most of the people who think i submitted that think that i do not even know what Defoko is, or that i've heard exactly two Hatsune Miku songs. i know what Defoko is. i know she's entirely computer generated. i've listened to her voice. i still think it's bad. have any of you big shots heard of Big Al? i've listened to him. also bad. it's bad.

Submission 111

I think chicken breast is disgusting and I would rather blend it up into a shake than eat it with my teeth

It’s fast, it’s efficient, it’s nutritious if you add fruits and vegetables. It’s easy to prepare and you can drink it on the go. I need the protein but chicken breast tastes disgusting either way, and I’m tired of putting in so much effort to make the joyless rubbery meat taste good.

My friends and family are wrong, this is the future.

I see some of you not voting! That's cheating!

It's ok if you agree with neither take! Just choose the take you agree with slightly more!

Think of it like choosing the lesser of two evils!

Propaganda is always encouraged, and remember to reblog your favourite polls for exposure!

#tumblr glitched the first time sorry #tournament poll #hot take tournament #tumblr poll #tumblr tournament #tumblr bracket #hot take #unpopular opinion #hot take greatest hits #hot take matchup #vocaloid drama #vocaloid #hatsune miku #miku #voice synthesizer #vocal synthesizers #vocal synth #chicken #chicken smoothie #food #cw food #you did all ask for this #tumblr polls #vocaloid discourse

[clingyduoapologist]

Me waking up to another day of not being a twitter boober

#sorry I wanted to participate it drama but also I have no good points to bring up #that someone else already had so #here #discourse

[curiositysavesthecat]

Tap here for a poll about whether or not writers mimic other writers’ writing styles and/or take inspiration from other writers’ works

*this poll was submitted to us and we simply posted it so people could vote and discuss their opinions on the matter. if you’d like for us to ask the internet a question for you, feel free to drop the poll of your choice in our inbox and we’ll post them anonymously (for more info, please check our pinned post)

#incognito polls #writing #writer #writers #writeblr #ao3 #archive of our own #artists #writers on ao3 #writers on tumblr #whump #angst #blorbo #comfort character #fandom #fandoms #fanfic #fanfiction #writing community #whumpblr #fandom culture #fandom police #fandom discourse #fandom discussion #fandom drama #tumblr polls #poll #polls #tumblr poll #tumblr

[bitsbug]

I don't know if this is an exclusively me thing, but I don't think I'll ever get over how just, completely pleasant tumblr is. People leave nice comments on my art & I get to see funny tags in my notifications & I get to make more friends & I'm allowed to gush/infodump as much as I want & there's no pressure to keep up with others ... Even with all the janky design, it's a very calm experience.

#my majority-positive experience is prooobably just luck #but I do have a very good record of avoiding fandom drama/discourse/whatever #My easygoing and slightly oblivious nature allows me to seamlessly slide past interpersonal confrontation #also this place is the singular social media I use so that may colour my judgement #obligatory talk tag

[miicycle]

What upsets me the most about the whole James Somerton scandal, of course aside from the actually terrible shit he did and what that lead to, is that people are calling others "idiots" for being "fooled".

I'm sorry to say, but the human mind can be fooled, no matter how hard you train it. Maybe not by James ofc, but anyone, and I mean ANYONE, can be fooled into believing ANYTHING when talked to by someone who seems legit. Especially since James stole from other actually good creators and writers, hid credits around, lied, showed SOME credit at times but sometimes not, his words seemed genuinely legit.

What sucks too is that this also belittles those who may be disabled. As someone who has severe ADHD and autism, it fucking sucks to hear "you shouldve been able to tell" or "how did you fall for it, his videos are garbage".

I never went on witchhunts, I didn't even know he got accused of stealing until a friend told me to watch the hbomber video (which I'm slowly working through).

I, a queer person, watched the videos on queer issues to learn more, the easy way (I have a hard time just reading things and like having the background noise of someone telling about incidents and events). It's a fucking accessibility thing for me. So God forbid I watched some of his videos and thought he was legit.

Insulting anyone isn't going to get you anywhere. Especially those that just watched his videos and didn't attack people. I hate that I easily fell for the ruse, I don't need people calling me stupid on top of it. I shouldn't feel ashamed for watching some godamned videos.

#james somerton #hbomberguy #ableism #video essayists #james somerton drama #text post #discourse #mii talks #serious

[celestialspritz]

PSA for fans of pleasantsims

i don’t like to talk drama at all but considering the majority of cindy (pleasantsims) fanbase are teenagers just getting into the sims, just an fyi that she’s 1) a very icky person, read about it on the snark subreddit that’s up (there’s verified evidence of her abusing her ex husband there) and 2) her new boyfriend is planning to doxx many people who criticise her (on that snark subreddit) by hiring a digital detective. this is a grown man btw. please be safe people, this is really some disgusting work by the hands of cindy 🫂

#drama #discourse #ts2 #feel free to unfollow if this is not the sort of content you followed me for #but I rarely engage in such topics nowadays #this is just really gross and there is no coverage of it here on the biggest sims platform #pleasantsims #lifepluscindy

[anachronistic-falsehood]

i don't even care who wins. i hope they all collectively snap. i want bad to hunt down charlie and kill him over and over and over until he rage quits. i want fit to lavacast red and blue's spawnpoints until they're screaming bloody murder at him. i want cellbit to eat pac's other leg. i want tubbo and phil to kill each other a thousand times over. i want tina to relentlessly hunt down cellbit for killing bagi. I WANT THIS PLACE TO LOOK LIKE 2B2T BY THE TIME THE TWO WEEKS IS UP!!! from a storywise standpoint i just want all the characters to go batshit and i'm not even going to look at the qsmp tag anymore i want to go crazy all on my own with my cubitos with not even a HINT of discourse on my dash

#qsmp #this is the only post i'm gonna make that's even remotely discourse related and i'm not gonna reblog any more of them either #i'm here for the fictional drama not the internet drama #let's all go crazy hand in unlovable hand like red team on the first day <3

[scarefox]

The way some people straight up deny soft criticism of the BL industry (stuff that isn't even a secret if you don't close your eyes and ears!!!) Criticism by literally LGBTq people working in said BL industry in Thailand..... basically one of the only ones who's voice are most valid here in this discourse. That's not hypocrism of people working in the industry to open their mouth! That's called self-awareness and using this genre to convey a message and trying to fix issues. This is about Step by Step and Lovely Writer atm. But those are not the only dramas who brought up some critic but somehow people get salty now about that little poke from SbS? Did you sleep the past 3 years?? And it's not a coincident that it's always the same topics certain BL dramas brought up!

I feel like some people here don't get that you can criticize your own work place, your own industry, your own country WITHOUT hating, shaming or demonizing it completely! Yall need stop this black & white thinking and the constant urge to feel personally attacked by something like this...

Especially the message of LW (the same people who make SbS now) was that there is nothing wrong about loving BL stories and they do like producing them. BUT that there are some things in the industry that are bad and harmful NOT ALL OF IT, SOME THINGS! Like the treatment of actors and certain topics by companies and producers. And the main theme of LW: the toxic overstepping and overcontrolling shipping culture that can (and did) destroy real life relationships / friendships under the weight of the pretend relationship (pretend as in they are not dating for real (everyone knows that! or should know that! this is also not even a secret if you watch interviews outside of the fun and couple game shows) at least in most of the cases.... in some rare ones yes, in some very rare cases some actors actually date but they are too afraid to come out due to homophobia and the way the industry & fandom treats those cases (source Dr. Thomas Baudinette who studies the industry as a form of queer asian media and interviewed companies and actors since years... somewhere in this he talks about actor relationships, I can't find the time stamp atm))

ALSO the point about exploiting the LGBTq community is NOT about the fans or LGBTq audience who love these dramas. But about businesses and literal Thailand itself. For using those stories and actors / couples for advertising, for marketing, for tourism even. BUT at the same time some don't care for real life LGBTq issues and rights or the fact that Thailand is still not agreeing on equal marriage (which is not just about them not being able to marry but they get denied a lot of things married couples get. alone the fact that they can't see their partner in the case of an emergency in the hospital because 'they are not family'). In the said SbS scene they were literally discussing which pretend couple has the most fans and how they could use their fandom and fan clubs to gain profit. Don't you guys get how fucking frustrating this is for the LGBTq people and allies who work in the BL industry, to get paraded in front of the camera for money and image but still don't get treated equally??? THAT is what they mean with exploiting.... And it's a lot of producers, writers and some actors who voice those points, not just these few self-aware BL dramas. But doing it through the medium they adress is the best way to reach the right people, to make the right people aware and ask for their support. Since they can't say such things directly (even though they should) unless they want to lose their job, they still like to a degree.

And I am sorry but the opinion of actual thai people who are inside that industry is more valid than some random fan who just doesn't want to understand those things in order to enjoy their shows without feeling bad.... What if I tell you that you can do both and that this is not about shaming you or making you feel guilty (unless you participate in toxic overstepping behavior or are actually LGBTq-phobic, then yes feel guilty)! Acknowledging issues, supporting to fix those issues and still have fun with these dramas and actors.... Those things can and do coexist and nobody said otherwise!!

#damn i said i stay away from discourse and I am not here to discuss but I have to say something about this since I saw some bs #sorry my patience is very thin the past months and I am so damn tired of stupid discourse #rant #bl drama #bl actors #step by step the series #Tee Bundit Sintanaparadee #tee bundit #salt post

[st-dionysus]

it's nobody's business too police labels and identities for other people but I will say the reason you might be getting backlash for calling yourself a dyke is because it is insensitive to lesbians who do get called that in a derogatory way so it's those people who can reclaim it, it's something that though used interchangeably with lesbian and used as a specific lesbian identity is a reclaimed slur so I think it's something that can and should be used but with grace and understanding for those who are sensitive to it.

I get called Dyke as a slur. I have been beaten and faced SA from and by people who have called me a dyke. I have been called dyke when I was a lesbian and I have been called dyke after coming out as a trans man, because to cis society I am a dirty filthy dyke, to lesbian separatists, I am a traitorous self-loathing dyke.

It is insensitive and transphobic to police the language that trans men have reclaimed. It is insensitive and transphobic to refuse to acknowledge that trans men can come from and still exist in the lesbian community. Furthermore, it is insensitive and transphobic to presume that trans men exist on a binary and that we are unable to have complex relationships with are sexuality and gender. Trans men, having been reclaiming dyke for as long as it has been used a slur. It is not a specific lesbian identity -- it has been used by ALL queer women and ALL transmasculine people, including trans men. When I go to the dyke bar, guess what? They have trans men there. When I got the dyke march, guess what? They have trans men there. There are trans men in every single dyke community space that hasn't been overrun by TERFs, Lesbian separatists, or libfems.

It is only online that I have EVER been told that I am not a dyke, that I can not reclaim that identity, that I should be understating/sensitive of the people who attack me and try and police my gender, sexuality, and identity.

Hell, even the TERFs I've dealt with in person, call me a broken deadbeat dyke, and I've reclaimed that. When someone tells me I'm a dyke while they try to misgender me, whether they're just a run-of-the-mill transphobe or a TERF. Guess what? I get to say "Yes I am, and that doesn't make me less of a man, you don't know me and you don't get to choose who or what I am." And I will tell that to anyone who decides they get to police any aspect of my identity.

I do not owe anyone Tumblr/Twitter an explanation for who not only am, but for who I am accepted as by my community.

I am sorry if the tone of this answer comes off as angry, but I am angry, and I have the right to be.

#Answers #Saint Speaks #Dyke Drama #Slur discourse #transandrophobia #FTM dyke #discourse

[braxiatel]

I like to think none of my followers would do this, but I’m so stunned it continued to happen that I just have to say it anyway: please don’t ask mcyt creators about fandom drama - especially not when they’re livestreaming.

No, you do not need their opinion on the discourse of the week. It is incredibly inappropriate to bring internal fandom issues to them. They are not part of the fandom, their work is the the subject of it.

For context this was brought on by people repeatedly asking Scar (Goodtimeswithscar) about shipping on stream using the text to speech bot.

If anyone doesn’t understand why it’s bad here are some of the reasons:

You’re approaching someone at their workplace to ask them their opinion on a controversial topic. Would you go up to an employee at a supermarket to ask them their opinion on politics? On official store policy? Would you ask them to announce it over the call system? I sure hope the answer to all of those is a resounding no!

You are asking them to answer a nuanced question they do not have any context for on the spot. Would you like it if anyone did that to you in front of a large crowd? Would you want an answer you made to a question you don’t fully understand recorded and paraded in front of your entire audience?

When they are live the are doing their job as entertainers, providing entertainment. You know those people who heckle comedians who are live in stage? That’s you. That’s what you’re doing and it sucks.

Their career and livelihoods depend on them creating a positive experience for the audience. That means when you pay them to pay attention to your question using the tts bot they have to come up with an answer on the spot that is entertaining and doesn’t leave the audience uncomfortable

If it really does make them uncomfortable and you want to protect them from that… bestie you’re the one putting the uncomfortable information in front of them? You’re the one making them think about it?

Not only is it inappropriate to ask and disrespectful towards your fellow fandom members to put them on blast, you are very unlikely to get a response that actually reflects the creator’s opinions. Very few of them are immersed in the fandom to the point of knowing about the fandom discourse, and if they really are incredibly uncomfortable/angry/upset with something they’re not going to express that fully because that would absolutely suck to watch and alienate their audience.

So just… don’t? You’re just making an ass of yourself and you are heckling creative professionals just trying to do their job

#mcyt #mcytblr #discourse #fandom drama #negativity #those last three are meant as content warnings ftr #the void collection

[heretherebedork]

This is an entire conversation explaining the concept of shipping actors as well as using their status to sell products and about the use of the queer identity in their selling point is just... it's glorious because it's real but also because it's the discussion that happens so often with fans... what is the actor's job? Is it to sell a ship? Is it to act? What does it mean to cater to fans and when does it go too far?

(I am fascinated by them discussing this using some real stars and real acting pairs and it's honestly fascinating. @absolutebl I love this discussion happening in a show that isn't about actors in the industry but rather the industries adjacent and the discussions inherent in both the fanbase and the non-fans as well.)

But also this line is even more fascinating because it does bring up the question... if his ex-boyfriend is a BL actor and thus part of the LGBTQ community is he exploiting his own identity? What about the writers, directors, producers and other actors who are also in the community? When does it stop being exploration and become another form of expression? Is there a line to be drawn? Or is there an inherent distinction between queer works and BL works that cannot be crossed as a line?

There's so much to breakdown and I absolutely cannot do it but it's such an interesting question to ask and a lot of interesting discussions that are possible from it.

#step by step series #step by step bl #step by step the series #step by step #bl series #thai bl #bl drama #thai drama #thai series #thaibl #asianlgbtqdramas #asian lgbtq dramas #thai bl series #thai bl drama #asianlgbtqdrama #asian lgbtq drama #fascinating discourse