#celebrian meta

[demonscantgothere]

Is Celebrian as Sauron's daughter just a crack theory or is there any merit to it?

Oooooooh, I'm so glad you asked, anon, because let me explain something very interesting to you!

The rings of power were roughly forged in the Second Age between the years 1500/1600. At the time, it is explained that Celeborn and Galadriel were together.

Tolkien had a lot of discrepancies with Celebrían. A lot. First of all, what little he wrote of her is mostly not even official canon but from unfinished manuscripts and letters. For instance, in some stories she has a brother Amroth, but those stories were de-canonized because Tolkien changed his mind and later made Amroth the son of Amdír instead of Celeborn and Galadriel.

The first mention of Celebrían is around the Second Age 1350-1400 when she was traveling alone with her mother, Galadriel, through Khazad-dûm. At this time, Celeborn was not with them. Mind you, the very first mention of her, there's no father involved. Her and her mother, Galadriel, are traveling alone together. IN FACT, Celebrían and Galadriel wander alone together for a couple hundred of years, looking for Celeborn. The next mention of Celebrían is in the Second Age in 1700, after the forging of the Rings, and it is mentioned specifically by Tolkien that they were trying to find Celeborn, but Tolkien never explains why Celeborn isn't with them in the first place. Dude just goes missing for a couple hundred of years! (Hmm, sounds like the show, doesn't it?)

Celebrían isn't mentioned again until the Third Age when she marries Elrond in 2500. At this point, Galadriel and Celeborn have finally been reunited.

So, yes, there's lots of juicy discrepancies with Tolkien's timelines involving Celebrían because it was just all over the place and Celeborn was nowhere to be found.

#saurondriel #haladriel #sauron x galadriel #galadriel x sauron #galadriel x halbrand #halbrand x galadriel #celebrian #sauron #galadriel #celeborn #the rings of power #rings of power #trop #j.r.r. tolkien #celebrian meta #celebrian as sauron's daughter meta

[havenotwillnotreadthebooks]

Something something Adult Elrond wanting his daughter to stay with him and be safe and alive even if she may be unhappy, and manipulating his daughter into making a huge decision to fit that by not telling her his entire Vision

Something something Tiny Elrond and Tiny Elros being somewhat-forced to listen to Maglor & Maedhros, because the brothers wanted them to be safe and alive even if not happy

Something something generational trauma and Adult Elrond accidentally treating his children like he and his brother were treated as children sometimes

Something something Arwen knowing how much her dad loves her and loves him back anyways, even though she had to break free time of his safety eventually to go her own path.

Something something Arwen being less Luthien-Reborn and more reflection of her uncle Elros (who broke his fathers’ rules more than his brother ever did)

Something something Elrond being more Maglor than Thingol, and Celebrian more Maedhros than Melian

M&M letting the twins go in the end for their own safety. Elrond letting his daughter go in the end for her own happiness.

#silmarillion #tolkien #elrond #arwen #maglor #maedhros #peredhel fam #kidnap fam #kidnap dads #generational trauma x3 for elrond ksksk #Celebrian being tortured and then being too distant (across the ocean) to rlly parent and keep her co-parent in line #something about maedhros letting primary caretaking fall on maglor without rlly checking in on them #history repeating itself but not how you think #tag.words #peredhal fam + kidnap fam #silm #silm meta #ig

[viola-ophelia]

let me know what your favorite is in the tags! ^w^

#silm #the silmarillion #tolkien #lord of the rings #maedhros #maglor #feanorians #sons of feanor #feanor #celegorm #eol #aredhel #huan #mairon #elwing #celebrian #eru #gollum #celeborn #galadriel #turin #oropher #ungoliant #silmarillion poll #jrr tolkien #tolkien meta

[hollowwhisperings]

Justice For Celebrian!

Celebrian is a Character of Absence in Tolkien's Legendarium: we never truly meet her and yet her absence lingers throughout the text, affecting most every major actor of the Third Age (the eldar most of all).

How-so it this? Through this: the devastating grief, unspoken yet doubtless, of those who knew & loved her.

For Celebrian was this: to Celeborn & Galadriel, their daughter and only child; to Elrond, the Great Love of his life; to Elladan & Elrohir, a mother whom they failed to quickly rescue; to Arwen Undomiel, the mother whom she was never to meet again for choosing the Path of Man.

Celebrian was the Lady of Imladris, the princess in all but name to Lothlorien. She was kin to two Ringbearers and yet neither Ring could save her. We know only that she was gentle and beloved, by some of the most crucial players in the events of the Second & Third Ages of Middle-Earth.

Why Celebrian is Absent

Celebrian's status as one "beloved" by the eldar creates a formidable motive in their hatred of The Shadow. For the means by which Celebrian was "absented" from Middle-Earth was entirely of Its Reckoning: in the 2509th Year of the Third Age, Celebrian was "waylaid by orcs". She was "captured and tormented" until she was, at last, found and rescued by her twin sons.

This Fate is one of Horrific Implication, one that Tolkien's Appendix B avoids elaborating upon (beyond her "receiving a poisoned wound").

Fans have Imagination Enough to consider what Hurts could be beyond even Lord Elrond's means to Heal, beyond any of Galadriel's many powers, beyond the careful comforts found in Imladris & Lothlorien. Whatever befell Celebrian by the creations of Sauron, it left her so wounded that Sailing West (& thus Away from most everyone she had ever known) was her only Hope for recovery.

"Justice" within the Legendarium

The Fate of Celebrian was yet one blow more in a long list of Personal Grievances borne by her Kin against Sauron. The vigilance and ample assistance of Celebrian's Kin during the War of The Ring was undoubtedly inspired, in no small part by her Fate & subsequent Departure.

While Elrond & Galadriel would doubtlessly have aided The Fellowship without this most recent grievance to drive them, the otherwise reclusive eldar of Imladris & Lothlorien would certainly have found Celebrian's Fate "inspiring" enough to take arms once more, "postponing" (or hastening) their Leave of Middle-Earth to seek Justice for their Lost Lady.

"Injustices" in Adapted Works

The Injustices that adapted Tolkien works have done unto Celebrian are many: they have erased her very existence (TROP); they have denied her her Epic & Untold Love Story with her Husband (TROP, again); they have Lessened the person she chose to love by making him a Minor Antagonist (both of PJ's film trilogies); they have stolen the kinship between other characters that they share for her existence (PJ's trilogies imply her existence but fail to utilize its possibilities, many of them comical: Elrond is Galadriel's Son-in-Law; Gimli's Championship of "Grandma Galadriel"; Arwen's Looks being inherited not from Celebrian but from Elrond; etc).

The effects the Live-Action Adaptions have had on the Modern Tolkien Fandom are also Significant: Hugo Weaving's portrayal of Elrond is the most commonly known, despite its OOC-ness; the relationships between Celebrian's Family are unrealised or dismissed; the "Last Homely House", a title probably earned by Elrond & Celebrian both, is considered falsely named; the Many Incentives for Galadriel to Hate Sauron & to have ALWAYS Hated Sauron are... forgotten to enable a "will-they won't-they" romance(???).

To erase Celebrian is to remove from the Second Age one of its silliest love stories: she & Elrond were silently pining for each other for almost 2000 years! This surely amused her mother, who had become afflicted with Sea-Longing some few years prior, & caused Conflict at the Court of King Gil-Galad (for, by wedding Celebrian, Elrond's Claims for High Kingship of the Eldar would become even stronger). The politics are, perhaps, the primary purpose of the would-be couple's long silence: audiences do not know as the potential of their love story has had little attention dedicated to it.

Injustice to Celebrian exists also in the mischaracterization of Elrond: what impression must an audience have, afterall, of the one to love & be beloved by someone so antagonistic to those most in need of "The Last Homely House"? The hostility, the begrudging "hospitality" exhibited by the Elrond of PJ's film trilogies tarnishes not only Elrond but the Legacy of Celebrian as that House's Lost Lady.

(It also creates some varyingly minor/major Plot Holes, such as Elrond's ability to host a Council of the "Free Peoples" in the first place. If his hospitality is so poorly to non-elves, why on Arda would he so frequently be sought for counsel? Furthermore, the Elrond of the Third Age has made himself a Healer: how many elves of this Age would ever need his skill?)

More, varyingly serious charges of "injustice" to Celebrian are sure to follow: my discontent began in the rendering of her husband into a petty antagonist; it has been reignited upon my learning of Amazon's choices in its adapting of the Second Age. Mostly, however, my rallying cry is made in jest: "failures" of adaptions to make Elrond sufficiently pretty for his wife; the lack of "Celebrian/Elrond" content in tumblr feeds; melodrama over how many elven names start with "Celeb".

#celebrian #tolkien meta #silm #house of elrond #elrond meta #galadriel meta #justice for celebrian #let elrond be hot #let galadriel be a grandmother #let gil-galad have headaches over the political clustercluck possible were elrond to ever admit to pining for celevrian #srsly how stressful must it been for gil-galad when maglor tagged him as elrond's new guardian? #maglor: i found this in a cave plz look after them #gil-galad: the missing princes of doriath??? #elrond&elros: so when will you be abandoning us for a silmaril? #gil-galad: oh no they have anxiety #i wonder how elrond reacted to hearing galadriel gifted gimli three strands of her hair #srsly the guy was abandoned by parents over silmarils THREE TIMES #and then people started calling his daughter evenstar & luthien reborn #i imagine that celebrian spent most of her kids' early childhood pointedly telling them that she loved them more than the stars #and keeping her mother from going around in her recreated swanboat #galadriel sending the fellowship off from a swanboat while singing in quenya was peak pettiness at the valar #her exile was lifted so she just went all in with noldolante references #celeborn: why are you like this #galadriel: do you remember where i put that tunic with a star of feanor on it #galadriel powerhoused through the entire exile powered by spite & thirst for celeborn

[runawaymun]

Building on the idea that the searches for Celebrian took so much time - how much of the family do you reckon were out in force looking for her? We know the twins were the ones to *find* her, but that doesn't say they were the only ones looking. It feels safe to assume Glorfindel and Elrond were out, but I also like the idea that Arwen, Galadriel, Celeborn, Haldir and tons of other parties were also out there. I would imagine that their reprisal as they scoured the mountains was terrible to behold - we don't know what they did to those orcs that had her when they found them, it's not mentioned, but I think almost more chilling is the fact that the orcs they found that *didn't* have her aren't even mentioned.

Perhaps that's how they eventually found her. The true culprits ratted out by their fellow orcs and goblins who *just want the fucking elves to go away*.

Oh I absolutely think there was a host searching for Celebrían. I don't think you could have kept Elrond in Rivendell if you tried. Naturally Glorfindel would go with him. In my brain they would have left Erestor and Arwen to manage Rivendell-- not because anyone doubts Arwen's capabilities but purely because Elrond could not take it if Cel had died and then he lost Arwen as well somehow.

Galadriel and Celeborn would have been out in full force, definitely aided by Haldir and their host of Galadhrim. And actually? I genuinely think the Dunedain would have helped as well. They know Elrond and his family. It's likely they know Cel. Many of them have probably met her personally. They're known for their skill with hunting & tracking and they have the numbers to be an immensely valuable asset.

As far as what happened to the orcs... I genuinely think that Elladan and Elrohir did do some awful things to orcs to figure out where their mother was. There's a reason they earned the epithet orcsbane from the orcs themselves. Not just because of how many they hunted, but I personally think because of the actual malice they hunted with. This is their mother and these orcs, to them, are monsters and they are going to stop at nothing to bring her home. Elrond would take issue with this. But in my brain the twins went first and Elrond, Glorfindel, &co followed, and so Elrond wasn't there.

I think also at some point Thranduil probably sent in supplies and resources. They all know each other. They're all friends. They're in this together.

But in the end I think that the twins got the information about where she was being held and just didn't wait to meet up with the other parties before going in to get her out. They probably told Elrond & everyone else (either using osanwe or by some other means), and then just booked it through the mountains to the orc den. And I think by the time Elrond, Glorfindel, Galadriel, Celeborn &co all met them there, the whole place was already nearly gutted (minus a few stragglers) and the twins were bringing Cel out for immediate medical attention.

And yeah. I do think absolutely every single orc in that entire den was slaughtered.

#meta #celebrían #elrond #elladan #elrohir #galadriel #glorfindel #celebrian's torment #out of uniform

[effervescentdragon]

Do you have any hcs about eldritch Peredhil, considering they are part Maia?

hi friend! i think we talked about this a long time ago, and im pretty sure i had something written for you about luthien before my computer crashed the first time, but by valar i cant find it anywhere, i just looked for it.

this is a wonderful ask and imma put the stuff i have under the cut bcs this just inspired me and somehow crystallised some things for me and i tend to ramble a LOT! so thank you! <3

okay so i think our convos probably influenced me without me noticing it somehow, or it was just universe or my brain being weird or whatever. i have a hc that finrod and galadriel are very eldritch in like. half opposite directions. they are both terrifying and they both kinda. see and understand some things but only with hindsight. and it's not the sight, as one may argue cirdan has, but i think they just. know stuff and see stuff and cant make sense of it very much. so id say that celebrian maybe either carries the genes or is herself like that. actually pretty sure she herself is like that bcs in that elrond character study i did, i know that she knew she wasnt going to see arwen again, and she knew it, but elrond didnt.

and elrond himself, ive written him in that fic as seeing things, which i do believe now in hindsight was partially influenced by the way you wrote arwen. i think that the mix of maia and finwean blood in him gave him some powers, but he actively resisted them because they've always given him only heartache (with elros first, then erieinion, at least in my fics) so he chose not to look for what happens, preferring not to know and spare himself some heartache at least. i believe this also gives him grief a lot, because he is always torn between knowing and not knowing.

now i imagine, and im literally developing this as i type, that mixing these powers from nolofinwean, arafinwean, AND melian's sides in celebrian and elrond's children is. well. a lot. i havent given it that much thought if im honest, but im gonna do it now.

so. twins. i think the gift is, not dilluted in them as such. i just think they chose, when they were younger, to disregard it. i imagine them reading accounts of other twins in their family, or listening as erestor and glorfindel perhaps conversed about elrond and elros (in my hcs, erestor was echtleions half brother and went w earendil and then stayed w the twins when they were w maedhros and maglor) and about all they know about ambarussa and elured and elurin and just. decided together not to separate and decided to like. not defy fate but just. to choose eachother always and never allow fate to separate them? if that makes sense. and perhaps one of them can see further than the other, but they choose to supress it and to devote themselves to other endeavors that arent so. fated? like, they want to do stuff because they've put work into it, and not because something was given to them.

arwen, on the other hand. arwen i remember thinking about, grandchild of luthien, every bloodline possible converged in her in a way that's more fated than most tbh, which is a lot to say about a tolkien character. i think she.. hm. i think she knew she was going to walk the steps of luthien, and i think she never even contemplated another choice. i think this knowing came directly from within her, and i think she was aware of much more than anyone else. i also think she had help from irmo especially. now, im connecting the dots for my personal headcanons so bear with me.

i hc findis as having dreams she does not remember that are filled with knowledge. she wanders irmo's domain and he always sends her back without the knowledge she acquired, because it would be too much for her and she'd go insane. i think arwen is exactly like that too. i think they meet in lorien, and i think they get along really well, and i think findis may be the biggest support arwen has ever had. now, findis is feeling guilty about her own sister and how she judged lalwen for leaving with feanaro, whom she still cant stand, so she tries to be for arwen what she never got to be for lalwen. and i think they walk the fields of lorien and findis tells arwen evrrything she can think of and everything that bothers her, and arwen does the same, and yet they never really know it, nor do they know each other when they wake up. i think arwen is stalwarth in her beliefs and her decisions in part because of findis, because findis was always the one with her feet solidly on the ground, and arwen finds that reassurance comforting even without knowing where it comes from. so when she chooses a mortal life, none of the peredhel were ever as sure in that decision as she was, aside from luthien, who was objectively insane for bullying namo, but also so very valid.

hope this answers your question and if i think on anything else, imma add it! also, thank you for inspiring me to brainstorm! :)

#akira answers asks #silm meta #tolkien meta #this got long #arwen #elladan #elrohir #elrond #celebrian #findis #galadriel #finrod #the silmarillion #lotr #lotr meta #tolkien #effervescentdragonrants #ilya-boltagon

[starsofarda]

So I am now going off with the meta I promised to @tolkien-feels aka:

Has anyone ever written meta comparing Rivendell, Lothlorien and Mirkwood to Gondolin, Nargothrond and Doriath respectively? Because if nobody has, somebody definitely should

And yeah, I usually suck at essays, so please don't ask me to put this in essay form. I will do my very best to expose everything as best as my undiagnosed ADHD mind allows me :)

I would like to start by saying that being able to write meta about what I love and actually being read is something that does not happen to me usually and I am so happy, but I am already digressing.

Everything will be under cut, I apologise in advance if this has too many words, no one usually listens to me blabbering about my special interests.

I am now going to mention this other post, because of the very good points and keys in my analysis, thanks again to @tolkien-feels for the insight and the big galaxy brain <3

To be able to digest the whole thing I am going to pick up the elements for comparison two by two starting with Gondolin and Rivendell, then Lothlorien and Nargothrond and finally Mirkwood and Doriath.

GONDOLIN AND RIVENDELL

Elrond, heir of Turgon: I am going to go to this hidden valley and build a place of safety and lore, the last refuge if all else falls to ruin - @tolkien-feels

To be able to compare the two I think it is important to define what these places are, who lives/lived there and what they represent.

Gondolin was built during the First Age of the Middle Earth by Turgon, and whilst I am not going to dwell for long on its history, whose summary you can find here and in more detail in The Silmarillion, I am going to take into account that Turgon was an exiled elf. He saw the Light of the Trees and although originally he had been against, he followed Feanor and ultimately stayed behind due to "Fingon and Turgon were bold and fiery of heart, and loath to abandon any task to which they had put their hands until the bitter end, if bitter it must be".

Basically he had a whole lot of pride, which really does not surprise me all things considering.

But the thing is, even though you are fare from home and cannot/decide not to go back, you do get homesick - I know the feeling, I have constantly this feeling due to me having had to abandon my country to be able to live.

You still want to find something you can call home even in a foreign land and I think that Gondolin was exactly that for Turgon. A place of solace, where he could find familiarity in what he saw. Because at the very beginning he did not want to leave Valinor and stayed in Middle Earth out of pride.

Gondolin itself was not ever heavily armed, the defenses were relying mostly on the fact that it was hidden in a valley and that barely anyone knew about it outside the valley. So we can more or less safely say that Gondolin definitely was not mainly a place built by warriors, so when it fell it was indeed a tragedy.

And here we can talk about Elrond, Turgon's great-grandson. He is an Elf who has lost a lot of things and people in his life.

He lost his friends, he lost his home, he lost his family - Elros, his twin, decided to take the mortal path, as they are both only half-elves due to his father being the child of an Elf and a mortal (an Edain).

His father became the Polar Star - and I deeply suggest you listen to the Song of Earendil by Clamavi de Profundis because it is an Experience(C). Anyway, I am digressing, but I am also sure that when Bilbo made Elrond listen to the song he cried a lot. His wife Celebrian, daughter of Celeborn and Galadriel, was kidnapped and tortured by orcs and then left for the Immortal Lands and ultimately Arwen became a mortal.

Now I am sad for Elrond.

There is more, like Isildur betraying him and being very much nearly one of the Elves decimated in Eregion, Gil-Galad dying (?)*, but this is to make the point of "Elrond lost so much that he does not want anyone else to experience what he has passed through and therefore Rivendell is born as a Homely House, where you can find solace, knowledge and ultimately a place he can call home.

Huh. Not so different from Turgon - and Elrond surely knows about Turgon. Tolkien is always pointing out parentages and genealogic trees, I am 100% sure none of his characters is immune to the Genealogic Tree Explanation.

So, to be concise: a place to call home, full of knowledge, solace and house for all exiled and lost ones, full of memories, full of nostalgia and magnificent, a remembrance of past times. Tolkien loves doing parallelisms and I apologise because were it not for the post mentioned I would have overlooked it.

And due to these similar motives both Gondolin and Rivendell were born. If we are looking also at the geography even Rivendell appears to be sitting in a valley, although it seems a little better defended considering how much waste Elrond lays of the orcs following Thorin & co. in The Hobbit, so I consider this a lesson learned.

After all, aren't the new generations always a bit more savvy

And I am so sorry, but this analysis hit a bit too close to home for me and I have to go and scream for 15 years. And possibly call my dad.

Anyway, I am now back.

I am going to keep going on my analysis in a different post, once I have gathered again all the knowledge I have on the topic.

#the silmarillion #the lord of the rings #meta #tolkien #tolkien meta #middle earth #jrr tolkien

[sanisse]

You talk about bonds in your writings a lot? What are these exactly? Like sexual, matrimonial, familial? What do they do and how are they formed? At least in your opinion or even maybe textually?

I’m so curious!

aaaa! I love meta and lore questions, thank you!

I do make use of Bonds a lot because I find them to be such a fascinating concept. Tolkien really didn't say much other than the fact that elves form "indissoluble bonds" when they get married and have sex. He also heavily implies that elvish children have similar bonds with their parents. Tolkien writes "therefore... [a child's soul]... draws nourishment from their parents before the birth of the child: directly from the mother...and mediately from the father" (Laws and Customs).

As far as I'm aware of, that's really the only definitive information we have there. Pretty much everything else floating around is fanon. My own headcannons are as follows:

I take "indissoluble bonds" to mean spiritual bonds, linking souls to one another inextricably.

Every soul has a certain color. This is just my personal preference when I'm writing to distinguish them. For instance, Celebrian is silver-colored. Elrond is starlight-colored before he receives Vilya, but post-Vilya, it is gold. Gil-Galad is kind of an indigo color. So, kind of like auras, I guess? It's hard to explain.

For sexy reasons (and because it makes things a lot less complicated), I headcannon that Elves can withhold bond-forming when they're having sex if they just want to have casual sex.

I apply the theory of Quantum Entanglement from physics to Bonds, because I think it's Neat. -- "groups of particles are generated, interact, or share spatial proximity in a way such that the quantum state of each particle of the group cannot be described independently of the state of the others, including when the particles are separated by a large distance"

So, just from a fun fantasy play application, I like to say that Elves who are bonded to each other have access to and basically simultaneously feel (more or less) each other's thoughts, wishes, desires, emotions, and sometimes even physical experiences. Bonds can cause internal (mental, emotional, etc.) pain if strained or stretched, either under emotional duress, conflict, long periods of physical distance, or long periods of emotional distance. This feeling gets worse and worse the more times that passes.

This applies to both married couples and parents and children. So, say your SO or child is in distress or particularly wants/needs/is looking for you, you can feel that, and it'll prompt you to go to them and see what the matter is.

In terms of other sexy applications: couples act as facing mirrors. Pleasure is volleyed and amplified in bonded sex (vs unbonded sex where it's just normal). Partners feel each other's orgasms as well as their own.

Bonds can be formed intentionally for children which are not biological -- so adoptive bonds! You can also just have this be a platonic sort of Bond between adults, too. The process is a little different (romantic bonds are formed during sex, but platonic bonds I kind of headcannon as...like walking through a door, if that makes sense? Like the adoptive parent will step up to the child's psyche & soul and just sort of knock, and the child can choose to let them in or not to form the bond). Both parties must be willing, though.

Bonds are webbed. So, for instance, Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen are all bonded as siblings, and bonded to their parents. Via their parents, they are also bonded to their grandparents (and would be to aunts & uncles if they had them). I headcannon that bonds get weaker the farther along the tree you get, but they all do link together.

In the case of adoptive bonds - in order to fully hook up to the rest of the family group chat, you have to be bonded to both living parents. If you're only bonded to one, then you only receive the bond to that person, rather than the whole family. It just feels very Tolkien to me.

Bonds can't be dissolved, but they can be shut down by either party. This is very painful and stressful, but it does happen -- usually when one partner is in a great deal of physical or emotional pain and wants to shield the other party from it.

I feel like there's definitely more here that I have to say in terms of how I use Bonds when I'm writing but that's all of the top of my head, lol!

#sanisse speaks #tolkien #tolkien meta

[welcomingdisaster]

Maedhros, Celebrian and Turin for the character bingo thingy if you want!

hii!! here are my thoughts

maedhros:

all time best character ever written!! very many facets and character nuances & a lot of different eras you can write him in. many many mistakes and a LOT of issues!! integral to SO many different plots. presence is felt even after his death. love him dearly!!

i think the fandom IS too nice to him. i feel like i read a lot of canon divergent fanfic/meta set towards the end of his life that shies away from having maedhros just fucking stab people. i think there are definitely points in his life where he was a very responsible older brother/the most reasonable feanorian but i also do think a lot of portrayals ignore his decline into violence and madness. (sidenote: dark!mae writing coming... hopefully soon. if i can manage it. the wip's been a wip for a looong time.).

unrelated controversial take; the more i think about it the more i prefer a maedhros that has a complicated relationship with having a prosthetic and often does not wear one. i kiiinda wanna write more exploring his relationship to his missing hand throughout his life.

celebrian:

i like most fandom portrayals i have seen!! geeky celebrian supremacy, here for elrond getting PEGGED, etc etc

LOVE fic exploring her choice to sail and her slow recovery.

she's not a character i tend to seek out content for but i love to see her when she pops up!

turin:

honestly i enjoy him but i'm much more invested in the characters around his story than him specifically! most of my love goes to finduilas, gwindor, beleg, morwen, and nienor.

that being said i think his relationships with all those people are very juicy & fun & i enjoy them a lot <3

#thank you for the ask! #turin #maedhros #celebrian #lena speaks #theworldisquiettheretooquiet

[undercat-overdog]

Aaah, artist anon, I am so sorry for responding a couple days late - I didn't see your ask till now; many apologies!!

I am so honored and pleased that you wish to gift me illustrations! And I'm very happy to hear you enjoy my fic and meta, and so very glad that it helps you! My heart expanded several sizes <3

For Annatar and Celebrimbor designs… my mental picture of Annatar is the Shadows of Mordor one, blond with golden eyes. He's a little taller than Celebrimbor in my mind (as is Celebrian, and Galadriel, and Elrond, and Finrod: poor C was born into a very tall family, though he's taller than the average elf). I do enjoy him with prehensile hair.

For Celebrimbor, I have a faceclaim here - a hair claim as well lol, since in Bones he has short hair. But if you want a different period, pre-hair cut of angst, he did have the standard elven long hair. Black hair too, though theoretically he could have any hair color than Elves have.

If you're curious about clothing, go with whatever you want; it's been several thousand years so I'd say pretty much every fashion has been in at some point. Under the clothing, I think both are built.

But if you are called to some other design, do as you wish!

(I can't claim credit for Meowron! I think it was aipilosse who came up with it originally a while back, but I am a fan of all Sauron-morphs and the kitty of him you drew was soooo round and adorable; my heart melted into a million stars to see him.)

You have the loveliest of days and end of years too, anon! And the doggo is doing well :)

#let me know if you want me to delete this after you read it #and :hugs: on the social media stuff #you are so sweet #and all fans of squidron have excellent taste <3

[outofangband]

Hey Nelyo! I know that whump and captivity headcanons are your thing, and I was wondering if you had written anything about Celebrian?

Hi anon! I wrote about her on my post about trauma and food and I have a bunch of drafts have stuff about her because I’ve been expanding my complex trauma metas to include other characters too

I don’t think I currently have any fiction about her posted but Celebrían is actually one of my favorite post first age characters so if you want me to write anything about her I’d be happy to take prompts/requests

#the silmarillion #lotr #Celebrían

[demonscantgothere]

Annatar/Sauron, Galadriel, and Half-Maia Celebrían Theories:

Tolkien's timeline goes as such.

S.A. 1200 — Annatar arrives in Eregion, meets with all the Elves.

S.A. 1350/1400 — The very first canon text mention of Celebrían. She was traveling through Khazad-dûm with her mother, Galadriel.

S.A. 1200 to S.A. 1500 — Annatar dwelt with the Elves for three centuries before leaving.

S.A. 1500/1600 — The forging of the rings of power, and the forging of the One Ring. Annatar leaves Eregion.

So, the very first canon mention of Celebrían is smack in the middle of the three hundred years that Annatar lived with the Elves.

. . . Do with this information what you will.

#celebrían #sauron #galadriel #saurondriel #sauron x galadriel #galadriel x sauron #haladriel #galadriel x halbrand #halbrand x galadriel #half-maia celebrían #celebrian meta #i made this timeline because of the greatest slavery #but y'know sharing is caring

[emyn-arnens]

"that's how she got her name" DIDNT Celeborn, you know, her husband, the one i'm pretty sure amazon is ignoring for the sake of girlboss galadriel, give her that name? 😭 theyre so stupid *sniffles* 2nd age Galadriel should also be a mom. but i guess you cant be a sexy girlboss when youre a mom 🤡

Yeah, that quote is a giant leap. :/ Although it looks like that’s just the VF journalist’s words, since she’s not quoting or paraphrasing the showrunners there. (But the journalist also says that she’s a big Tolkien fan, which I’m doubting based on that error and other things she says in the article, so I’m not trusting her judgment that the first three episodes she and the other VF writer saw were as lore-accurate as she says they were.)

My hope for Celeborn having any meaningful role is dwindling with each bit of info that comes out. I’m wondering if he’s even going to be in the show at all (or have anything other than a very minor role, if he does end up making it into the show), since there haven’t been any casting announcements or leaks about him. I don’t see how they could include him if Galadriel is spending all her time road tripping with the new Halbrand guy, crisscrossing Middle-earth hunting orcs, and visiting Númenor.

And definitely no Celebrían if Celeborn gets chopped, which is really unfortunate because Celebrían would add more female representation (like they say they want) and would be an interesting character to explore. You’ve already got the built-in romance with Elrond to add a romantic subplot, and I would love to see a depiction of her in her youth, before her torture in the Third Age.

Honestly, I just don’t get the point of young, angry Galadriel (besides its obvious Girlboss Points) because she’s already old in the Second Age. She’s already crossed the Helcaraxë and refused the summons to Valinor; she’s past her rebellious stage at this point, really, and already shows the wisdom and the makings of the “elder stateswoman,” as the showrunners call her, that she'll become, with her distrust of Annatar and her counsel to Celebrimbor to hide the Elven rings. There’s just…no reason for portraying her as being so brash and bitter this far into the Second Age.

All I can say is that this condensed timeline ain’t it. :/

#lotr on prime #trop #trop crit #rings of power #galadriel #celeborn #celebrian #my worst (hopefully very unfounded) fear is that they'll try to make something happen b/w her and the halbrand guy she's road tripping with #esp because I'm getting potential villain vibes from him (I'm thinking proto-annatar or one of the nazgul) #but hopefully I'm just being paranoid #meta #my meta #asks #anonymous

[celegormworm]

Some notes on Celebrían’s family, for my own writing purposes but also thought I’d share

As we know her parents are Celeborn and Galadriel

On her father’s side, her uncle is Galathil, and her grandfather is Galadhon. Nimloth is her first cousin, so Eluréd, Elurín, and Elwing are her first cousins, once removed. Elrond is her first cousin, twice removed.

If Elmo is the brother of Thingol, then she’s related to Lúthien’s line twice over. This relation is more complicated and not really relevant for my purposes, but talk about a family wreath. That would make Dior and Nimloth second cousins, once removed.

On her mother’s side, her grandparents are Finarfin and Eärwen, her great-grandparents Finwë, Indis, and Olwë. This makes her related to Lúthien’s line a third time over, albeit more distantly.

Her first cousin is Orodreth, and any children Finrod might have with Amarië. Finduilas is her first cousin, once removed, along with Gil-galad if he’s the son of Orodreth. Celebrimbor, Idril, Maeglin, and if he’s Fingon’s son, Gil-galad, are her second cousins. Eärendil is her second cousin, once removed.

This came about because I wanted to know how closely related she was to family she might find in Aman. Forgot how much of a mess the elven royal lines are. Stop intermarrying, weirdos

#tolkien meta #celebrian #the silmarillion

[hollowwhisperings]

Justice For Celebrian: Galadriel POV

To my Ignorant Dismay, I have learned that the Injustice to Celebrian so writ into PJ's live-action film adaptions of LOTR & The Hobbit have been expanded in the latest live-action Tolkien adaption, TROP!

Where PJ's films "merely" rendered Celebrian's Great Love rather Unlikeable (putting him to blame for the failures of The Last Alliance! PAINTING HIM AS INHOSPITABLE! rendering him grim and severe!) & Un-"Yassified"... TROP has ERASED CELEBRIAN FROM EXISTENCE!

For, you see, in choosing the Lady Galadriel as their primary protagonist... Amazon decided to write out her family. Galadriel, even in the condensed version of events in TROP, would have been with her Great Love, Celeborn, for 2035 years¹ () & customs aga severalmarried. whom she met & wed AND ALL TO GIVE ARTANIS A ROMANCE WITH SAURON??? Nevermind that Galadriel only gained the epesse of "Galadriel" as an endearment from the Besotted Celeborn. Nevermind that she & he were smitten at first sight upon meeting in Doriath, becoming betrothed in wartime! Nevermind that their love story began TWO AGES AGO, by the time TROP is set!

No, the worst consequence of TROP's erasure of Celeborn is that Ongoing Grievance I hold against the live-action Tolkien Adaptions, the one for which my Agenda is named: INJUSTICE TO CELEBRIAN!

Note: Celebrian is NOT to be Mistaken for the Similarly Named "Celeborn" or "Celebrimbor".

Celebrian is Galadriel's Daughter. She & Elrond pined over each other for nearing 2000 years, not wedding until the Third Age. Celebrian bore three children: twins, Elladan & Elrohir, and Arwen.

Celeborn is the Father of Celebrian, the Husband of Galadriel. He was a Sindarin Prince of Doriath:

Celebrimbor was Galadriel's Cousin, thrice-removed. He was a grandson of Feanor, Galadriel's Least Favourite Uncle.

It is Celebrimbor who forged the Rings of Power, as unwittingly abetted by a disguised Sauron. Celebrimbor was tortured to death while keeping secret the names "Galadriel", "Cirdan" & "Gil-Galad".

Celeborn's "role" is within the Legendarium is minor yet he does serve as the vehicle for several Rather Significant Effects:

Gives Artanis a Pretty Husband to link arms with & highlight how Tall she is when introduced.

Gifts Artanis the endearment that becomes her Name thereafter: "Galadriel".

Fathers Galadriel's daughter, Celebrian, and so joins the lineage of Oropher to their House (though Celeborn's exact kinship to Oropher, Thranduil & thus Legolas is never really elaborated upon).

Becomes Elrond's Father-in-Law.

Becomes the Grandfather of the children of Celebrian & Elrond: Elrohir, Elladan... and Arwen Undomiel.

Is Rude to Gimli, prompting the Chiding of him by Galadriel & so encouraging in Gimli his Championship of the Lady of Lothlorien (though her genuine shared grief for the fate of Khazad-dum was probably more key to their quick friendship).

Becomes the Great-Grandfather of Arwen's children with King Elessar (Aragorn of the Nine Walkers).

Celeborn, Elladan, Elrohir & even Celebrian herself are "minor" characters within the Legendarium. Yet! The nature of Elves is to feel deeply for those they love: to erase them from existence is to Change those most Affected by them. Those Changed by the Loss of Celeborn, of Celebrian & her children, are some of the most plot-significant characters of the Legendarium: Artanis, Elrond Peredhel, the Kings of Numenor, the Kings of Gondor, the Dundeain & Aragorn of the Nine Walkers.

There is Greater Issues where "Galadriel/Sauron" is concerned: Artanis HATES Sauron, for VERY VALID REASONS!

Sauron's Master, Morgoth, killed High King Finwe of the Noldor (her grandfather) in the second ever death in Elf Heaven Valinor. This, alongside the Burning of The Trees & the Theft of the Silmarils, prompted the events of the Noldolante.

Artanis was no Kinslayer (the First Kinslaying was that of Feanaro's Noldor against the Teleri of Alqualonde: Artanis is a Princess of both) but, in choosing to follow the Host of Fingolfin East across the Helcaraxe, she too was Exiled from Valinor. Another reason for her to Loathe Morgoth (Sauron's Lord)... but mostly her Uncle Feanor, whom she was determined to Spite thereafter.

Upon reaching [Middle-Earth], her Uncle Feanor was long dead (killed by Balrogs, PLURAL) & her eldest cousin (Maedhros, the only Feanorion to oppose the Burning of the Ships) had been captured by Morgoth&Sauron, [tortured] by both & subsequently hung up as a gruesome ornament.

Cousin Fingon rescued Cousin Maedhros, allowing their family to behold the extent of What Had Been Done to Maedhros by Morgoth... but mostly by Sauron. This would not be the only time Sauron put one of Galadriel's immediate kin to Torment.

Artanis seems to havre absented herself from the Long Besieging of [Morgoth's Stronghold], where Maedhros acted as the First Line of Defense for Middle-Earth. Instead, Artanis settled in Doriath & became a student of its Queen: the maia Melian (Elrond's Great-Great Grandmother). She very probably became friends with Melian's daughter, Luthien (Arwen's Great-Great Grandmother, whom she is said to have greatly resembled: Galadriel & Celeborn are the likeliest source for that comparison, having known both of them). It is here, in Doriath, that Artanis met & became Smitten with the Sindarin Celeborn. Sauron's deeds would be learned by Artanis throughout the First Age, none of them Good.

All three of Galadriel's brothers were killed in the First Age by Morgoth & his foul armies (many "created" courtesy of Sauron).

Galadriel's eldest brother, Finrod, was one of the 10 members of Beren's Quest for a Silmaril (King Thingol's Impossible Brideprice for the Hand of Luthien, his daughter & Beren's Great Love): ultimately, their Quest turned to Horror & Tragedy. Sauron saw through them, bested Finrod in [Bard Battle] and imprisoned the company with some of his personally created werewolves. One-by-one was the Company maimed and devoured by these werewolves, 'til 10 became 2: Finrod & Beren, sole survivors. Finrod sacrificed himself to save Beren, Beren then rescued by a Furious Luthien & the [Divine Doggo Sidekick], Huan. Huan defeated each werewolf (including Finrod's murderer) whilst Luthien [Bard Battled] Sauron himself. Together, Doggo & Half-Maia Princess bested Sauron, stole a Silmaril from Morgoth himself & fled (greatly wounded) back to Doriath with Beren. Finrod remained Very Dead: Sauron was now a personal Enemy of Artanis.

Doriath is destroyed twice-over (Artanis & Celeborn having long since noped out for Lindon), The War of Wrath happens & half the continent sinks into the sea, Sauron dodges prosecution by hiding, hangs out in Numenor to corrupt & enthrall, flees for Mordor as the Numenorians finally catch on... and, in the third millennium of the Second Age, disguises himself as "Annatar, Emmisary of the Valar". He shows up at Lindon in disguise but is Turned Away by King Gil-Galad & his Ward, Elrond Peredhel. He goes to Eregion & is a smash success, only Galadriel realising him as "Sus".

"Annatar" (Sauron) endears himself to Galadriel's Cousin thrice-removed, Celebrimbor, the Feanorion "disowned" for his own good & thusly the only one to survive (Elrond was never officially adopted & Maglor is only technically "alive"). We Know what Happens to Celebrimbor. That is incentive for Galadriel to want Sauron dead several times over, even without taking his role in Finrod's Fate into account.

The War of the Elves against Sauron happens & Eregion destroyed: Galadriel, as bearer of Nenya, likely kept her involvement to a minimum (lest Celebrimbor's resistance be in vain).

Shortly after that War, Galadriel becomes afflicted with Sea-Longing but, as a Noldor in Exile, she cannot Sail. More incentive to rue the continued existence of Sauron. Celebrian (who's been alive for a good thousand-ish years by now) escorts her mother from the shore, through Khazad-dum and thereafter to Celeborn. They reside for a time in "Imladris", a new safehaven established by Elrond. Celebrian & Elrond meet: cue nearly 2000 years of silent pining.

The Third Age features Galadriel's gaining a son-in-law & becoming a Grandmother. She spent this Age journeying about with Celeborn, checking on the Defenses of Middle-Earth & the whereabouts of Nazgul, and then [a balrog] shows up in Khazad-dum & the nearby settlement of [Lothlorien] becomes kingless. Galadriel & Celeborn take up joint rule but refuse any crowns... in Year 2510 of the Third Age, their daughter Celebrian Sails West: she had been captured by Orcs. Orcs, of course, were created by Sauron: they were first elves, elves captured and tormented by Sauron until he could twist them to his liking.

For her brothers and Finrod especially; for Gondolin & Belereiand; for Celebrimbor & Eregion; for the fallen kingdoms of Men; for the Seven Dwarven Kings... and now, in the cruelest blow yet, for Celebrian. Galadriel would ensure Sauron's Ruin.

Yeah. Celebrian is Kind Of Important?

Footnotes

¹"Together" but not necessarily wed: they were either "long betrothed" due to customs against Wedding in Wartime (535 years at longest, postponed 'til Morgoth's defeat in The War of Wrath) or got hitched soon after meeting (at the court of King Thingol & the maia Melian, 52 years after Artanis arrived to Middle-Earth). I favour the former interpretation due to its better explanation for Celebrian's birth being "early in the Second Age" (sometimes dated to SA 300).

#tolkien crack #tolkien meta #celebrian #elrond peredhel #grandma galadriel rights #celeborn x galadriel #trop dismay #lotr film trilogy dismay #feanorian apologist undertones #house of elrond #house of finwe

[runawaymun]

So I have written a lot about food and food insecurity in the aftermath of trauma and I focused mainly on Maedhros, Húrin (who there is actually some canon examples with), and Morwen (a different kind of trauma) and I know you posted some about Maedhros too so I was wondering if you had thoughts on how this affected Celebrían. I really love all your ideas and writing on her and I had some of my own thoughts but I wanted to ask!

-@outofangband (sorry if this is disorganized, I wrote it right after waking up)

aaaaaa!

@outofangband 

Thank you for the opportunity to ramble about this!

Buckle up. This ain't a fun one, guys. And it's so so so long.

CW: discussions of suicidal ideation, force-feeding, eating disorders, & unhealthy relationships with food due to trauma under the cut.

Celebrían post-torment kind of lives rent-free in my brain. It actually really bugs me how little I see of her in the fandom from this period in her life, and usually when I do see content about this it's about how her torment affected Elrond which is very unfair to her. It's her trauma, after all.

I tend to describe Celebrían's relationship with food post-torment with three words: repulsion, obsession, and disinterest. (Unlike, say, Maedhros where I would describe his relationship with food post-Angband as being characterized mostly by insecurity, anxiety, and compulsion).

In regards to Cel, let's talk about repulsion first.

Food Repulsion

The issue of Cel's repulsion to food post-torment is really complex. The first and simplest part is that it's strictly biological. I really don't think she was given much to eat during her torment that would have actually agreed with her. When the body goes for extended periods of time without food, the stomach shrinks and becomes very sensitive, and it takes a while for it to acclimate to digesting things again. This also feeds into disinterest-- it was genuinely hard for her to want anything to eat when she was ill post-torment-- in the "nothing sounds agreeable and everything I eat makes me nauseous" sort of way.

And then there's the less fun aspect of why I suspect she has repulsion to food post-torment, and that comes down to force-feeding.

Tolkien mentions (I think) more than once instances of orcs force-feeding disagreeable substances to their captives. Chiefly I'm thinking of Merry & Pippin and the weird "orc draught" the Uruk-hai gave them. I can't think of any other specific instances currently off the top of my head, but I remember reading that part as a kid and being viscerally disgusted and freaked out, and that part still haunts me every time I read it. Force-feeding is such an intense form of psychological control. I'm thinking of the times during the women's suffrage movement when women went on hunger strikes and then were force-fed with tubes/funnels. It's a violation of bodily autonomy. It's even worse when you're being forced to consume a substance which may have an altering effect.

And it's clear from the scene with Merry & Pippin that the orc draught had an altering effect and tbh I always read it as being something the orcs enjoyed doing.

And just in general, orcs seem to enjoy torture and infliction of distress. So firstly, I believe Cel was force-fed this orc-draught, seeing as it has an "invigorating" effect and possibly would have essentially made her last longer to be toyed with and tortured. Secondly, I think they probably force-fed her some gross stuff (i.e. stuff orcs like eating. Raw flesh/blood etc.) because they found her reaction funny.

So naturally, this is traumatic, and naturally, Cel isn't really going to have an appetite for anything but, perhaps, water when the twins get her home.

It was very difficult for Elrond to get her to take any medicines. She logically knows this is her husband and that he's very safe and that he's trying to help her, but Cel isn't going to want anything that may alter her mental or physical state. On top of that, being fed anything is going to be triggering. This is made especially worse in the very likely event that during her early recovery she has to be fed, which is re-traumatizing.

This is distressing for everyone around her, obviously, especially Elrond who is only trying to help. This is especially distressing for Cel because she knows, she knows that everyone is trying to help her and that she has to eat to stay alive, but the act of swallowing has become so utterly traumatic that it probably sets off a gag reflex and causes her to vomit most (if not all) of what she's being given.

This takes a long time to work through.

-

Obsession (and Compulsion)

Okay let's talk about obsession. For Cel, the repulsion actually feeds into the later obsessive and compulsive behaviors which she develops to cope with her repulsion and anxiety. This is going to be a shorter section because I just don't want to linger on this for very long.

Once she is able to keep food and medicine down, she develops an obsession around making sure she knows exactly what she is eating and exactly how much she is eating. She doesn't develop a hoarding issue like Maedhros did. She begins to pick apart and count everything she's eating. It takes hours to finish even the smallest meals. As this progresses she refuses to eat anything that she hasn't seen prepared in front of her or she hasn't prepared herself. She isn't being intentionally difficult, it's that the anxiety around not knowing what's in her food makes her physically ill & makes her reflexively vomit.

This carries over into Valinor.

She doesn't eat at group functions anymore. She doesn't eat meals with others anymore. She is aware that her behavior doesn't make sense, that it's "strange", that it's unhealthy. She has a great deal of shame around this that she can't manage to get rid of. Very few people in Valinor understand this trauma and she has no desire to talk about it. So she just doesn't socially eat anymore. It's very isolating.

This eases with time and intentional help and work. Again, I'm not sure if she ever really heals herself of this anxiety. That shit lingers with you.

-

Disinterest

Now let's talk about disinterest.

This may seem to be in conflict with obsession, but it's not.

This goes hand-in-hand with her repulsion, but mostly it's caused by intense depression, and is a problem that gets worse and worse in the months leading up to her departure.

As it becomes more and more clear that Cel just....isn't getting better, she really begins to feel guilty, I think, of the toll that she's taking on her family. She feels like a burden. She doesn't want to cause them any more distress. She is tired and ill and sick at heart.

So as things progress, she just...eats less and less. Part of this is because she just hates food and hates what it makes her feel and hates the distress all of her trauma around food causes everyone around her, and a good chunk comes down to the nausea and visceral repulsion.

The other part is that she just...

doesn't want to be here anymore.

And Elrond just will not let her go. He's trying so hard to help her heal. And Cel feels guilty because that's really unfair of her, she feels, to not work so hard herself when he is putting his entire being into saving her.

This is when their marriage bond starts to fracture (I don't think it ever broke entirely, but I think there was a moment where they were on the verge). Intentionally, on Cel's part. She doesn't want to cause him pain. She starts distancing her from him as much as she can.

And this is when she really, truly stops eating.

Because she can't bear to tell him that she wants to die. How could she do that to him? When he's doing everything he can to save her? Literally giving her pieces of himself? I headcannon he was using Vilya as a last resort, here, at risk to himself. It's literally breaking him and Cel can't bear that. Not when she just feels numb. She doesn't feel like she's worth saving and she doesn't know how to ask him to stop trying.

So she just...stops eating.

And she withers and withers and withers.

And she begins to fade.

And that's when Elrond truly starts to panic.

I think there's a moment where he asks her, very bluntly, if she wants to die.

And Celebrían very quietly says yes.

And I think that destroys him.

I think it's Celeborn, actually, over everyone that suggests that she sails. Because there's really nothing else to be done. Either she sails, or she fades. Maybe she fades anyway. Either way, no one can save her except Celebrían herself.

And there is one tiny feeble spark somewhere deep inside Celebrían that wants to live. So she tells her husband, and her mother, and her father, and her children goodbye, and she leaves everything she has ever known to sail to a place she's only heard about in her bedtime stories.

Does she ever fully recover from any of this?

No, I don't think she does. I don't think her appetite every fully comes back to her. I think she's always just a little too-thin. I think she still has a difficult time eating with others. I think she just can't eat certain foods anymore. But she manages, and she heals, and she lives. That's the important part. That's what matters.

Despite it all, Celebrían lives.

#celebrian #elrond #galadriel #celeborn #celebrian's torment #meta #headcannons #lotr #silm #out of unform