#and why not have Octavian be that person? | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

pandoratheprocrasticreator · 1 year

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idk if this is A Take or anything but as much as i dislike characters who read as "creator's pets" - characters that the writer obviously wants you to think is a great person but maybe don't adequately SHOW instead of TELL - i find it more irritating when the writer seems to be trying to tell me HATE a character.

i know the "fun to hate" thing is a trope and obviously a lot of villains do need the audience to hate them somewhat. and the problem with both the characters that the writers want you to like and the ones they want you to hate that don't work well, is that they make the audience's opinion on the character hinges more on the "tell" part instead of the "show."

but idk it's one thing to really love your oc. but if you're purposely writing your character to be hated without giving them adequate characterization it just feels meaner? they're not a real person that could be harmed by being shit on but my feelings about them are real! like you're not even TRYING to make them an actual character this is just a punching bag! now im going to scan the character for any redeeming qualities bc clearly the author doesn't want to.

in conclusion:

creator: you should hate this character

me:

#i felt this in middle school and couldnt put it in words #and this is why i wrote two fics giving redeeming qualities to drew tanaka and octavian from heroes of olympus #this is why i keep rotating odalia blight in my head #this is why i hated the iron widow #60% of the characters are either literally plot devices you have to treat them like actual characters and like them bc the author said so #or theyre literally just plot devices but you have to treat them like actual characters and hate them bc the author said so #if you want me to hate a character make them do things in the story to actually earn it #and i dont mean hate like i dont want to see this character in the story ever again #if you write a character like that then why are you putting them in the story #if the character is to be hated they need to invoke the 'holy shit this guys so fucked up' button in me #i dont have to 'like' a character as a person but if theyre not meant to make the audience think about the story then #why do they exist #make an actual conflict not a strawman #shut up pandora

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navree · 1 year

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"cleopatra faced oppression" the fuck she did oh my god i hate y'all so much

#personal #i thought we couldn't get any stupider than 'cleopatra was culturally black' because like....no #because a) someone's idea of 'culturally black' varies from country to country #and b) what an american for instance would consider 'culturally black' is based on idea that's at max a hundred years old #but no cleopatra the literal queen descended from an incestuous colonizer dynasty ruling one of the richest countries on the mediterranean #did not 'face oppression' where was she facing oppression she OWNED SLAVES #the closest that woman ever came to facing oppression was like maybe the last week of her life when octavian was in alexandria #but even then not really???#and they're so clearly not talking about any gender discrimination that she dealt with because this whole thing #is a defense of that stupid 'no cleopatra was black actually we promise'#god i'm getting anti cleopatra pilled by ahistorical bullshit i'm gonna end up hating her before the year is out at this point #also can we please focus on like any other egyptian queens ever #why's it always cleopatra's macedonian ass in the spotlight egypt has thousands of years of history #and a good chunk of those thousands of years did actually have female primary rulers #who were ethnically egyptian to boot #like goddamn there's more to egypt than just the cleopatra show and a lot of it is much more interesting

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memories-of-ancients · 17 days

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Just curious, why do you think Rome fell?

OMG do you really have to ask such a big question right before I was going to bed anon? Well, here are the primary reasons IMO as a Roman history buff.

Lots of Civil Wars --- The Romans going way back to the days of the Republic were constantly fighting over who was going to be boss. Sulla fought a civil war and took over Rome and declared himself dictator, ditto Julius Caesar, and of course Octavian did the same and became the first emperor. During the empire there were many civil wars over who would be emperor as the Imperial system often lacked rules for succession resulting in dynastic struggles and civil wars. Not that it would have mattered if they did, as they probably would have just ignored the rules. In the 3rd century the empire underwent a 50 year period of near constant civil war known as the Crises of the Third Century. Constantine became emperor after killing all his opponents in a civil war. The later half of the 4th century had more civil wars. Even in the 5th century factions were fighting each for control of an empire that was collapsing all around them. No side wins a civil war because they are bloody, destructive, there are no spoils of war. There is only self destruction, they are about as helpful to a country as would a person shooting himself in the foot. All the money and resources that went into fighting civil wars and rebuilding after the war was money and resources not being used to maintain infrastructure, maintain public works, regulate the economy, defend from outside threats, and maintain the government.

2. Political Instability --- Most emperors did not die of natural causes, most emperors were murdered, or committed suicide, or died in battle, or died in a prison cell. Roman government was chalk full of power hungry psychopaths who were willing to murder their way to the top. Sometimes emperors could come and go quickly, with reigns lasting 2-3 years or less in the 3rd century.

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Roman political history was rife with intrigue, assassinations, and coups occurring all the time. It was like Game of Thrones except instead of lasting 8 seasons it lasted 500 years.

3. The Army Became a Powerful Interest Group --- If you were a Roman emperor the army was a double edged sword. They were good in that they maintained peace and order in the empire and protected it from invaders. They were bad for you in that they could revolt and murder you, replacing you with someone they liked more. Even your own guard, the Praetorian Guards, couldn't be trusted as they could easily slit your throat in your sleep and declare someone else as emperor. To make sure the army was happy, you gave them big pay bonuses called donatives. Basically official bribes paid to keep the soldiers of the army loyal and happy. With each successive emperor the annual donative became bigger and bigger and thus a greater strain on the Imperial Treasury. If an emperor didn't pay up, he could be murdered by his own soldiers. Thus a lot of public money was paid just to keep the army happy so they didn't end up starting another civil war.

4. A Fucked up Economy --- Maintaining a large standing army to defend a large empire is expensive. Fighting civil wars is expensive. Rebuilding after civil wars is expensive. Constant regime change is expensive. Political intrigue is expensive. Eventually it got to the point where there just wasn't enough money to pay for all that. So emperors just minted more money, decreasing the silver content and minting more copper coins until eventually Roman money became worthless.

Today Roman money is still worthless. Go on ebay and find the cheapest Roman coins you can buy. Except for rarer collectibles Roman coins are still very plentiful and thus very cheap to collect. Worthless money made trade and commerce difficult, and thus the economy suffered. Not to mention constant bloody and destructive civil wars were damaging the economy. Political instability also damaged the economy.

5. Growing Disparity in Wealth --- Over time with civil wars and political instability the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. Eventually wealth became so concentrated in the upper class that the middle class disappeared entirely by the late 4th - 5th century. By then the average Roman was in a bad way. They had no opportunities and most Romans were forced to live as tenant farmers, essentially sharecroppers.

6. A Corrupt Tax System --- Meanwhile the wealthy became so powerful that they were able to wield that power so that they did not have to pay taxes. They could exploit loopholes, manipulate laws in their favor, or bribe their way out of paying. To try to make up the revenue, tax collectors attempted to squeeze the lower classes, which of course, didn't have any money. Thus by the late 4th - 5th century the empire was severely underfunded. This resulted in the degradation of infrastructure, public works, the army, the weakening of the government, and less investment in the economy and commerce.

7. Patronage --- By the 5th century the average Roman was out of opportunities and the middle class was gone entirely. More and more the lower class Roman was being squeezed for tax money, money which they didn't have. So in order to survive, Roman lower classes sold their services to a wealthy patron. The patron would house you and protect you and take care of your tax problems. If you were lucky and had special skills like a craftsman or artist you could make a good living under a patron. If not, you probably ended up a tenant farmer tied to the land of the patron, essentially a sharecropper, a serf, or a peasant. Due to this change in the socio economic system power was drawn away from the Imperial government and was redirected to the wealthy patrons. Thus the empire was becoming decentralized.

This would become the basis for medieval feudalism.

8. No One Wanted to Join the Army --- Why would you? You're dirt poor and have no opportunities. If you joined the army you may not even get the opportunity to defend the empire, as you're gonna get killed in a stupid civil war fighting a fellow Roman who is also dirt poor and has no opportunities. Your government is corrupt, your emperor is a snobbish entitled incompetent dipshit who was out of touch with reality, the tax man is trying to squeeze you for money you don't have, you have no rights, you've been forced to become a peasant to a proto-feudal lord, and it is clear the empire is dying. By the mid 5th century most Romans were like, "let it fucking die". As a result, the army suffered severe manpower shortages. Right at the time when Goths and Franks and Vandals and Huns are going to start swarming into the empire.

These to me are the primary reasons for the fall. Anyone have anything else to add in addition to this?

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somewhereincairparavel · 29 days

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🐚 Daughter of Neptune headcanons list 🌊 part one..

Note: I've never done a pjo hcs post like this with the aesthetic pictures and everything- but I've been Itching to make a daughter of Neptune one, since I consider myself as a Neptune child. So this is sort of a self insert haha, and I thought it'd fun cuz I have so many hcs abt this, I've only over seen ppl do a daughter of Poseidon one.

Also this one has reader x Jason Grace as romantic pairings, but it isn't the main focus. Like I said, this is a self insert, and I love my bb jason ;) + imagine having Percy as a big brother, goals fr

• Okay so you'd come to Camp Jupiter at the age of 8-9, so you definitely have a considerable amount of childhood before you came to camp. Which only made it harder for you to adapt to the barbaric ways the Roman camp worked.

• Also, Since Neptune was not a very respected Roman god, your arrival was considered bad luck. Octavian made you go through an intense trial (that motherfucker was like 10 years old and an augur, and was already such a bitch lol) + forced a newly elected praetor Reyna (who was also just 10 at the time) to hold a senate meeting before you were even offered a position at camp.

• Neptune is very feared by the romans though, since he represented the harsh brutality of the ocean, so you got the Roman Nico di Angelo treatment from camp. Everyone was scared of you, flinched when you walked passed them. this was to your advantage tho, since you never got bullied, mostly out of fear.

• so Neptune temples in Camp Jupiter are only taken care of by you, if you left for a quest or something then the shrines would be in such a horrible state, bc no one cares enough to offer Neptune anything or even clean up his shrine. You'd do the cleaning and offering.

• and the worst part? Your dad wouldn't even notice you even after your efforts.

• okay, your powers are quite similar to Percy's butt I feel like since Roman/Greek siblings always have powers that compliment eachother, you'd have better control over the earthly side of the domain. Like you can cause longer earthquakes, control seismic waves, and make volcanos erupt + cause bigger avalanches, Stuff like that.

• Your water control was actually a little limited, up until Percy arrived and helped you enhance your powers. And you helped enhance his control over earthquakes, since his earthquakes usually only lasted for a few seconds, his dad is more water dominant. So when you met him, you knew he was a missing puzzle piece in your life. You'd even be able to communicate telepathically to Percy underwater, a power you both never knew you needed.

• Seriously tho it would be hilarious to look at, bc to the others, you both sound like squeaky dolphins but in reality you are just telepathically speaking with one another. The others wouldn't understand, and poor Frank would be so confused as to why you both are making strangled fish noises

Leo would troll you guys so bad for this lol

• your eyes would actually be black. Not blue, not sea green, just black. Your eyes would literally glitter like black obsidian rocks. because Poseidon is the calm side of ocean, hence sea green eyes for Percy, Neptune is the dark and scary side of the ocean, so that's black eyes for you. that difference would clearly reflect in your guys's eye colours AND personality (I'll expand on this more in part 2)

• but your scariness comes with a downside, you had no friends. No friends, except Jason and Reyna. it's just your dad's naturally strict aura surrounding you that makes your overall personality a Lil grumpy and moody tbh. You did have such a resting bitch face that wasn't helping either.

• Jason, being the noble boy he was, knew you were going to be his friend the moment you made a dramatic entrance to camp for the first time, getting scouted by the waves to New Rome. He knew what it was like to have a powerful, scary dad, but he acknowledged and empathized that you had it harder than he did. He was considered a golden boy, while you were considered a scary bad luck charm. But regardless of that, Jason was your first best friend. And eventually, your boyfriend.

• Reyna on the other hand, badly wanted to befriend you because she admired your mental strength, you were 9 years old and you were openly scoffed at by the legionnaires simply because your father was a scary man. Yet you handled it all so well. But she befriended you a little later than Jason did. Since she was so busy, she barely had any time to chat with anyone. You, Jason and Reyna bonded as a trio when you guys had your first quest.

• Reyna secretly shipped you and Jason from the very beginning lol, bc a Jupiter x Neptune union? Y'all were powerful and cute af together. The mutual pining drives her crazy though, like kiss already smh.

• Also, Nicknames! Your nickname was ALWAYS "kelp head" because your hair was wavy and shaped like seaweed lol. As much as you hated to admit it, the name fit a little too well.

• okay enough with the friendship stuff, let's talk about how much that bastard Octavian makes it his mission to make your life a hellhole. It isn't even funny anymore, he hated you from the very beginning. Not only because you were considered bad luck, it's because he envied that you were a direct descendant of such a powerful God, he couldn't even handle Jason's arrival, yours was just the last straw for him. He opposes your opinions in front of the whole senate + prevents you from getting elected as Centurion + attempts to prevent you from going on quests, bc he can't handle someone else taking the glory.

• He was also the reason you were put into the unpopular twelfth legion. The underdog legion. But Jason? That sweetheart made it worth being in the twelfth legion so you weren't complaining tbh.

• honestly? Octavian and you are famous in camp for your bickering though lol it's just always a back and forth between you and him, such burning rivalry and enmity. You LOVED roasting him and you were fucking great at it too. He deserved that for making you go though hell. You'd laugh like a maniac when he trips and he smirks when has the upper hand against you in senate discussions.

• Reyna is the only reason you both didn't beat eachother up at this point tbh

• once, Reyna came running up to you all panicky because Octavian went missing from camp. In response, you beamed and told her that you'd get the balloons ready in the dining hall for a grand celebration. Jason would burst out laughing lol.

• you'd steal his teddy bears and give them to younger campers, asking them to hide it from octavian. So the younger campers absolutely adore you, unlike the older ones.

• you are also quite the rebel in camp, JUST like Octavian predicted you would be, when you first came to camp. It was actually written in his auguries that the new child of Neptune arrival would be always shafting the rules, since the sea can't be controlled. It's in a nature for a Neptune child to walk their own pace (lol have you seen Percy??) That gave another reason for him to hate you.

• Even some of the lares in CJ would call you an abnormal roman bc you never acted like one. You were wild and temperamental.

This rule breaking tendency you had did earn you lots of punishments that included scrubbing the whole camp with a toothbrush. But it was worth it for you. Camp Jupiter sucked. And you were already in trouble, so what's a little more, right?

• you'd sneak out at night to explore New Rome, because again, the Romans had this weird bedtime curfew like. they have rules for every. Fucking. Thing. It pissed you off so bad. They wouldn't even let you explore the city at night? They were seriously wasting the beauty of the city, You'd definitely rope Jason in to break the rules with you. Like don't be such a goody two shoes smh. I feel like that's what attracted him to you in the first place. He's a goody goody boy with such a boring life, youd just make it interesting for him.

• besides, sneaking out is SO much easier when you can fly. So Jason is your personal airplane. The Jason Grace airlines.

• okay so after all your hardwork in the legion, you'd finally get elected to Centurion, after you successfully finished a quest to retrieve a lost Roman artifact, which was formerly Jason's position and he would become a co praetor with Reyna. But you were still very much disrespected in camp tbh, it just became an internalised thing for everyone to hate you at this point, Octavian was also great at putting your reputation under dirt, but you didn't really care anymore.

• now here comes the catch, Jason and you were sort of in a half-pining half-relationship situation, Before that jerk goes missing. because neither of you knew how to confess, and camp was SO strict when it came to relationships for some reason?? Like even dating has to be lowkey.

• you and Jason are totally the grumpy x sunshine trope lol except you're the grumpy, snippy and batshit one and jason is calm, levelheaded and optimistic one.

Perfect balance. Gosh your dynamic would be so cute :(

• you'd just be grumpily stomping around while jason stalks behind you, laughing lightly. You're super short compared to him aswell, so yeah it makes it funnier.

• You were in charge of welcoming Hazel to camp, since Jason and Reyna had some serious meeting stuff about the new prophecy Octavian told them about.

• poor hazel would be scared to death while meeting you, not just bc it's you, it's bc she just came back from the dead, so this is all rlly new for her.

• That's where you met him. Nico di Angelo. You'd bond over your shared mistreatment in camp. So you became homies w him fairly quickly. He saw you as this cool big sister he could have happy meals with talking abt life.

• you would be a little curious when he keeps disappearing off to somewhere tho, you knew he was lying about where he came from.

Okay part 1 of this is done, this was so long lol, part 2 would drop later, that's where you and Percy meet and stuff.

Update: part two is out! https://www.tumblr.com/somewhereinhogsmeade/746489087922520064/daughter-of-neptune-headcanons-list-part-two?source=share

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obsidianstrawberrymilk · 10 months

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A short list of things I would have changed in HoO

It takes place ten ish years after the end of PJO. Percy and Annabeth aren’t a part of the seven but instead appear as cool older mentors to help out the Lost Hero trio. They both have careers and live in New York and go to Sally’s house for dinner every weekend.

Caleo isn’t a thing. In fact, let’s not even mention Calypso. At most we mention she was freed after the last war as idk proof demigods have some power or something.

More than 1 Asian character. Give this one ADHD and dyslexia bc shocker Asian kids can be disabled as well.

For that matter a properly disabled character. I have a deaf OC I would use if I rewrote the series.

Leo is aroace. His arc is about learning that his self worth doesn’t have to be tied to the people around him and his friends love and care about him and he doesn’t need romance to be complete. His flirting is overcompensation bc he doesn’t feel romantic or sexual attraction and is afraid he’ll be alone forever.

Drew and Piper become friends. Drew’s mean girl bullshit is outdated and boring and it would have been a lot cooler to see her icy exterior thaw and her help Piper with her charmspeck (explaining how Piper learned how to use it to begin with) and take on an older sister role

Neither Leo nor Piper become head councilors to their cabins because that’s dumb

Keep the chapter title style from PJO. It was so fun and one of the highlights of the series for me. The relatable nature of PJO in general was kinda lost in HoO and it’s a shame bc there was such a variety of characters for people to identify with there.

Give Reyna a girlfriend or at least a homoerotic friendship that can become an actual relationship in the next series or something

Frank is 14 and he and Hazel aren’t dating, they just have mutual baby crushes on one another.

For that matter what the fuck was ‘Frank is magically not fat due to Mars’s blessing’ bullshit? Frank is a fat character who stays fat but learns to be confident in himself and his body type.

Stop The Adultification of Hazel 2k23. Hazel is 13, she’s the youngest member of the seven and despite her trauma I think that should be obvious. I think emphasizing her relationship with Nico could be fun here - he’s in his 20s so him taking a more ‘that older sibling who toes the line between parent and sibling’ role here could be fun.

Also, I don’t want Hazel to have Hecate’s blessing or whatever. Between her being a magical horsegirl and the daughter of Pluto there’s already a lot of room to expand on her powers that was never used - I think doing more with her cursed jewels and metals powers and her learning the other aspects of her powers, like Shadow Travel, would be fun.

Instead I think having a daughter of Hecate as a part of the Seven would be cool, because we could still have a witchy character with mist manipulation and magic powers.

Give Jason an actual personality, please. Bro’s been a child solider practically since age 2 and has spent his whole life with the weight of other teenagers’ lives on his shoulders as praetor - give him perfectionism issues and anxiety. We’re told that he’s spent his whole life helping others compromise instead of being his own person - show that. Let his arc end with him deciding to try and live a mortal life and find out who he is beyond being a war general.

Show us that Octavian’s a piece of shit, don’t just tell us.

Leo and Piper are the ones who fall into Tartarus. Nothing romantic ever happens but we get heavy emphasis on their friendship and we get to see their grief over Leo’s mom and Piper’s grandfather respectively

Piper’s grandfather has died a few months ago and she cut her hair herself when her dad didn’t want to let her due to that (correct me if I’m wrong but it’s a tradition in Cherokee culture to cut your hair when a loved one dies, correct?), which is why it’s all uneven. A lot of her insecurities stem from going from growing up in rural Oklaholma (not in a reservation bc there aren’t any there) without much money to suddenly being catapulted into a millionaire Hollywood lifestyle and having everyone criticize everything about her and be really racist, all while her Dad drew farther away from both her and her grandfather. Her arc would be reconnecting with both her culture and Dad and learning to find who she is and her self worth again.

They defeat Gaea in a way that isn’t so anticlimactic and fucking stupid

#if anyone else wants to add on feel free to #heroes of olympus #percy jackson and the olympians #pjo #hoo #riordan universe #piper mclean #leo valdez #jason grace #percy jackson #annabeth chase #hazel levesque #frank zhang #reyna avila ramirez arellano #reyna arellano #heroes of olympus critical #hoo criticism #octavian

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child-of-helios · 25 days

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Calypso x Leo SUCKS, here is why

Look, I get why that sounds harsh, and it is, but hear me out.

First and most importantly, Calypso is a pedophile. We see her fall in love with 14 year old Percy, then 15/16 year old Leo. Already weird, right? And look, if we got some explanation as to why it would ever be okay for a titaness who is thousands of years old to fall in love with CHILDREN, maybe I could see past it.

BUT in the odyssey myth, Odysseus was MUCH older than a teenager. He was already noted to be an old wise king (who was old enough to feign madness from old age) at the START of the Trojan war. Now that war lasted 10 years and add to that the multiple years he spent traveling to Ithaca, and you got an old-ass man. So either Calypso was already a mature adult, or a child thirsting after some old dude. Sure, it happens, but weird. Let's not forget that Odysseus was married and very much still in love with his WIFE Penelope, but Calypso basically kept him hostage on her island and would not let him leave at all.

Now let's get to Percy, he got blamed for not making sure that the gods kept their promise??? Good sir that is a 16 year old who just got out of a WAR and had his memory stolen, of course he didn't check with the gods. ITS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY! He shouldn't be held accountable. Also let me remind you that Calypso wanted him when he was 14. Not a good look.

And finally, we get to Leo. Poor poor Leo. A boy who was oh-so starved for love that he took anything he could get, and that's my explanation as to why Calypso x Leo ever happened. Honestly, I adored Leo. I had a crush on him (still kinda do shhh), I won't lie. However, I also adored Annabeth but since her and Percy are amazing together, I could get behind Percabeth. But Caleo? Hell no. Sure, they have a fun dynamic, but it's more of a sibling dynamic in my opinion. I would've rather had Leo x Khione or something. Maybe Leo x Echo cause that would've been adorable. But Caleo??? No. He should've never gone back for her. Leave her to rot.

Secondly, Calypso is simply a jerk. And I'm the type of person who adores asshole characters when done right. Octavian is great because he's an irredeemable asshole AND he gets karma. But Calypso? She's a bitch and gets such a kindhearted boyfriend in return. Like I said, she tried to pressure a (married) man into sleeping with her and is simply a dick to Leo (HER BOYFRIEND) and I could understand if they were siblings, cause siblings are dicks to eachother with love underneath, but she just sucks. She immediately hated him, which she has reason to do after what happened to her, but even after that she was just horrible to Leo. I seriously don't see why he loves, likes, or even tolerates her.

In conclusion, I hate what Rick did to Leo. I adore his stories like no other (which is why I'm so passionate about this), but he really fumbled the bag here. Calypso is just not a good fit for Leo.

Personally I really do prefer Leo x Jason, Leo x Nico or even Leo x Echo. And yes it does sound weird for me to say that considering that I call Calypso a pedo, but I could see Echo not being able to age normally because of being stuck with Narcissus. Echo x Leo is in my opinion much better than Calypso x Leo.

Um sorry- that was really mean but I needed to say that.

On a lighter note I saw this really long worm which was cool! :D

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ricep0pp · 4 months

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already having to relive the Octavian/Luke comparisons and i think i may in fact spontaneously combust.

the blatant misremembering of Octavians character simply because readers just went along with whatever the main cast thought is honestly a little bit infuriating. he's the most spectrum coded character in HoO and most of his actions up until he is literally *brainwashed by Gaea* are justifiable.

"b-but he destroyed Percy's pillow pet comfort item!!" okay, maybe think about how he has to do this with his own comfort items every day? it's literally his job and it's very likely that nobody has ever gotten upset with him over it before. and *Reyna told him to do this* so why are we mad at octavian if it was an order from the praetor to do an augur thing and the easiest way to do that was with an item that had a connection to Percy?

i will also never get over the banquet scene at the beginning of MoA. Octavian literally does nothing wrong here but the characters decide that they just really want to make him the butt of every joke simply because they find him 'annoying'.

after Reyna does the toast and Jason is recounting their rescue of Hera/Juno, Octavian interrupts him in an exclamation of disbelief that they hadn't noticed that the queen of the gods had been imprisoned in a location that was very important to the romans. is interrupting rude? yes, but he obviously seems distraught over the fact that Juno was unknowingly imprisoned. instead of politely explaining the full extent of the situation, what does Piper do? immediately use charmspeak on him.

next, when Percy praises Jason's skills ("No wonder they made you praetor."), Octavian immediately brings up the fact that they have three praetors now that Jason has returned. this is really important, especially from his perspective since he's such a stickler for rules and regulations. Percy decides to immediately abtagonize him, and then completely dismiss his frustration over Percy choosing to step aside for Jason. Octavian has every right to be offended over this, even if it's not necessarily the most correct time to bring it up. Percy antagonizes him, and then basically blatantly insults him by treating the position he's worked his entire life for as if it's nothing important.

after that, Reyna has Octavian recite the great prophecy, ignoring his hesitancy (that is entirely warranted considering greece and rome have been at war for literal millenia). when Annabeth recites the last two lines of the prophecy and Frank brings up her parentage, Octavian has a right to be skeptical. in rome, Minerva isnt even a war goddess, and doesn't have children. without understanding how the gods operate in their seperate forms, it's reasonable, considering they arrived in a war ship, are being lead by a child of a war goddess that they are wholly unfamilliar with in more ways than most of the other major gods, and are, in fact, greek, to be suspicious of the groups intentions.

when Annabeth and Percy list the seven demigods they believe should go on the quest, Octavian is again rightfully upset. There are rules and procedures that are being completely ignored, and by visitors that are already suspicious to him and have made it very clear that they do not care about his opinion, even though he's on the senate and *the fucking augur.* he is once again interrupted, but this time by the book itself as Tyson shows up.

Ella then recites the 'mark of Athena' prophecy, which Octavian *once again* has every right to know about. prophecies are his job, and his entire *personality* as far as camp jupiter is concerned. i understand that it basically says 'Annabeth will destroy rome' but her secrecy in regards to the quest her mother gave her has never once made sense and is not justified in any way. instead of even saying something simple along the lines of 'Athena made me swear to secrecy', Percy for some reason is made to be the character that needs rescuing (in a situation that has nothing to do with him) and Annabeth takes the opportunity to make Octavian into the fool in front of all of his peers. it feels even worse later on when Annabeth and Reyna discuss the prophecy but only to agree that it even *is* one, and for no purpose beyond that for several paragraphs.

THEN when Leo offers a tour of the Argo II to Octavian and Reyna *once again* dismisses his suspicions, she winds up partly to blame for the resulting attack, as well as Leo for never telling anyone about gaea, and Annabeth for not saying anything when she noticed Leo was acting off. when Gaea attacks CJ and Octavian relays to Annabeth that he saw Leo open fire on the city, she assumes he's pulling some trick to get them to fight each other. she had known him for all of maybe a few hours and for some reason, watching her friends and boyfriend openly bully him has convinced her that he could be evil?

mind you, all of the above events happened over the course of *two* chapters, both of which are from the perspective of Annabeth who had only just met Octavian.

he only really began doing things you could consider 'evil' once gaea had fullt brainwashed him and driven him mad. and even then, he gets a fucking joke death?? as the only character up to this point that i was ever able to identify with on an ASD level, that feels really shitty! and the fact that the fandom just jumped on the Octavian hate train really drives home how people cannot handle spectrum coding/writing/*people* unless its presented in a cutesie helpless way.

but back to the original point of Octavian being compared to Luke; Luke was scheming the *entire* time we knew him. He did not want to protect his home, he did not have any real morals or self imposed rules. all he cared about was getting back at Hermes for not showing he cared about him (which is kind of bs considering Hermes is one of the busiest gods in the pantheon but as a fellow neglected kid i get it.) Luke was willing to do this in any way, even if it meant literally destroying the world. Octavian was just trying to keep his home safe in the way that any historical roman would have.

You also kind of have to consider his background. he was left at camp as an unwanted baby. we dont even know if his parents named him or if the camp did. his only identity is that he's a legacy of Apollo with a gift that is incredibly useful to CJ. this, along with his very clear coding (whether intentional on Rick's part or not), only shows me a character that was always unwanted and outcasted from the only place he even could call home. he doesnt want to be praetor for power, he wants to be praetor to prove to everyone (and himself) that he's worthy of being one of them. if he wanted power for the sake of power he could easily use his augur position to manipulate his way up, but never once do we see him attempt this. it doesn't help that he's named after THE Gaius Julius Ceasar Augustus, the man that founded the fucking roman empire in the first place. imagine how that must feel? to have your identity tied to such massive, larger than life people? imagine feeling like you have to live up to that in a place that seemingly fucking hates you for existing and only keeps you around because youre useful??

i really wish people would stop blatantly villainizing Octavian, dudes literally just an 18 year old autistic kid that was victimized by Gaea. give him a break, please.

#percy jackson #percy jackon and the olympians #pjo #pjo spoilers #pjo series #pjo hoo toa #heroes of olympus #octavian #pjo octavian #luke castellan

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nepobabyeurydice · 7 months

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wait actually let me explain how stupid the timeline for CJ is.

Jason is given to Lupa at 2

We time skip and Jason already in the fifth cohort this happened sometime between his 4th birthday to twelfth.

Reyna arrives one year later, Octavian is presumably a already there too along with Dakota, Gwen & Bobby.

The Charleston quest happens with Reyna and Jason and (?) either Jason or Reyna are already centurion or (?) is

Jason strangles the Trojan Sea Monster

…Either Jason or Reyna become Centurions or both if the (?) was the centurion on the quest.

At ~15 Jason is scouting with several others to storm mount Otherys, Reyna is presumably a few months into be being praetor despite it being only three years despite long-timers Jason and Octavian who are very influential just not having that position.

Same three days as TLO the Romans storm Mount Otherys, presumably losing many people and having no ‘hey claim your fucking kids’ should lack the ability to make up the numbers.

~Jason is made Praetor, probably after hacking Krios to bits with zero godly intervention except maybe Hera at one point. (save jason and kill thalia type of deal which fits her)

~Two weeks later Nico shows up with Hazel and Thanatos goes missing around the same time (no one died in that time? Not from festering wounds or attempted suicide after the battle they just witnessed??)

~December, Jason goes missing could also be late November for Hera to properly gaslight Leo and Piper and get them in place.

No one goes looking for Jason despite it being 3 days to a month of him being gone outside of California because *superstition*

Presumably, the Camp continues to function for 7-9 months without a 2nd Praetor especially one of their more powerful ones with direct ties to Juno just not being there

Hazel becomes a full blown member (the good shit)

Frank arrives two weeks after his mom’s funeral….That’s not long enough?? Percy probably stayed with Lupa for at least a month for him to learn all that, Frank should be there later than Percy, the same time as Percy or Rick should fix his timeline issues.

All of Jason’s work for the past 6-12 years has just vanished into thin air in 7-9 months and no one tries to hold on to his ideas for camp.

Yeah, I don’t completely understand the timeline either. The first 10 years of Jason’s CJ is so mysterious and we don’t even know what was Reyna’s cohort or centurion despite it probably playing a role of why she so quickly rose to praetorship. I personally go with her Cohort being the Second and her centurion being a descendent of Jupiter and later on Bellona giving him some weight to put behind Reyna as his successor.

Frank’s little timeline weirdness is mostly not taking into account the distance between Canada and California along with the timeline Rick gave Percy who is usually the prodigy in picking up skills. This is why i’m trying to pepper in events in my HOO collection on Ao3 because there is nothing. Fucking nothing and it’s stressing me out.

#heroes of olympus #jason grace #reyna avila ramirez arellano #camp jupiter #hazel levesque #frank zhang #hoo #octavian hoo #dakota hoo #meta

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demigods-posts · 6 months

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You have to revive one.

Octavian or Gabe?

Personally, I'd let Gabe rot in agony in the Fields of Punishment, and gladly bring Octavian back to life if it meant not seeing Gabe.

Explain why you chose one over the other.

Gabe because I want to see Percy beat his ass

#pjo #percy jackon and the olympians #answered

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massiveladycat · 9 days

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i just wanted to talk about how, just before octavian's death, will called octavian an anemic loser. let me remind you what being anemic IS. Google -

thAnemia is a problem of not having enough healthy red blood cells or hemoglobin to carry oxygen to the body's tissues. Hemoglobin is a protein found in red cells that carries oxygen from the lungs to all other organs in the body. Having anemia can cause tiredness, weakness and shortness of breath. anemia may also be considered a disability in certain situations with the person or in the environment. i ask you now why calling someone anemic as an insult is somehow made into an iconic quote. if will wasn't such a loved character and octavian wasn't hated so much, you all would be lunging at will every chance you got. someone please justify this to me because i really don't want to dislike will (because it was actually so out of character for him?? i LIKE will you guys) also this is just my opinion dw!! if you feel about it a different way or see it a different i respect that fr, just don't argue with one another about it and try keeping insulting people off the list when you are justifying it ! you can get your point through without insulting someone and i'll understand it the same way

#heroes of olympus #hoo #octavian #octavian is a complex character #octavian is my anchor #octavian hoo #octavian pjo #pjo spoilers #pjo hoo toa #pjo fandom #pjo series #percy jackon and the olympians #rick riordan #this isn't even biased #will used a literal disability as an insult you guys #thought he was a loving caring doctor of a child soldier #that was sarcastic by the way lmfao

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ilikepjo24 · 4 months

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Octavian is not the villain all of you make him out to be.

He's annoying. He slices open teddy bears to supposedly see the future. He's a rich boy (although we never actually see him brag about that). Out of context, he sounds like a demonic toddler. He's a blackmailer. He's a fucking asshole. But that's all.

Not trusting Percy? Perfectly normal. If all your life you were told that there's this group of people that you've been in war with ever since before the Roman Empire was a thing, that this group of people hates you with a burning passion and wants nothing more than to see your doom, that you've hurt and humiliated them and they've hurt you and humiliated you back, that they inferior to you in every way, and then a person from that group showed up at your doorstep, chased by monsters and started making friends with a suspicious looking guy that turned out being a spy and an undead person, would you trust them?

Personally, I wouldn't. Remember, the audience knows and loves Percy, but to a stranger Percy is a random, aggressive, powerful dude that causes chaos everywhere he goes and is the main suspect in multiple cases of terrorism. To Octavian, a person he knew and had worked with and might have enjoyed the presence of suddenly went missing, and then this troublesome, forbidden kid shows up and hangs out with a spy and a zombie. What reason could he possibly have to like Percy? How is he a villain for not trusting Percy? He's just being a freaking sane person dude.

Not go mention that Percy was also a forbidden child, one that typically everyone is wary of. And what does the greek forbidden child that causes chaos and develops friendships with spies and zombies do? He goes in one quest and is immediately granted the position that Octavian has wanted and has been working for for years, which happens to be the same position that Octavian's... Friend (?) had before he literally went missing. Doesn't it sound a bit suspicious when your powerful friend disappears, and a powerful potential enemy with questionable company shows up and steals your friend's job?

What luck, am I right? For a powerful enemy to show up as soon as there's a position of power open that needs to be filled by somebody who has power? Who's to say that Nico, who was later on proven to be a spy, wasn't send there by Percy? Who's to say Percy wasn't the one to kidnap and maybe even kill Jason, so that the position of the praetor would be open for him to take, and then allow Greeks into the camp so that they can destroy it and win this endless, centuries old war between Romans and Greeks?

And isn't that exactly what Percy ended up doing? He was granted praetorship, allowed Greeks into that camp on a heavily weaponed, flying warship, and they ended up blowing up part of the camp!

And what excuse do they give him for that? "This dude you don't know and don't trust and has built this warship got possessed by a ghost who we claim is rising but have no real, solid proof to support this claim. But she is rising and she did posses Leo, he didn't want to do it, he's a good guy that just happened to walk into your property with a huge weapon and blew up your house by accident. Despite all you've ever been taught about Greeks and despite that all the history books have told you about how much they hate you, and despite the extremely suspicious circumstances surrounding the situation, and despite blowing up your home, Greeks actually love you and want to work with you. Trust me bro." And this was coming from the dude that was friends with a literal spy that lied and kept secrets from everyone.

You know guys, you're right, I'm starting to see why all of you hate Octavian so much. He's being so unreasonable and overreacting over such small things. 😐 /sarcasm.

And then you were all upset that he gathered an army to go to war against the people that threw bombs in his house to defend himself.

Octavian was a dick, that's out of the question. He manipulated and blackmailed people. But the only thing he did that crossed the line of "dick" and entered "villain" territory was being the primary suspect for Gwen's murder. And she didn't even stay dead, so even that is not that bad.

This proven.

And for scientific reasons, I want to see if I actually convinced anyone.

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navree · 6 months

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"cleopatra movie starring zendaya as cleopatra and timothee chalamet as octavian" i was having a good day and now i have an anger headache

#personal #i like zendaya and chalamet as actors and they have good chemistry #and i'm honestly fine with anything that focuses on the relationship cleopatra and octavian had with each other specifically #i think it's underdiscussed and a great source of drama and narrative storytelling #but not like this #for one i will say it until i'm blue in the face: cleopatra was white as bread. palest woman to have ever lived in egypt.#you know what with the THREE CENTURIES OF ONE GREEK FAMILY INBREEDING OVER AND OVER THAT LED TO HER CONCEPTION #for two: why are octavian and cleopatra gonna be the same age she was a decade older than him #that's important!#she was an adult in a relationship with his great-uncle when they first met in rome and HE was a teenager barely a year into adulthood #(by roman standards)#like she can't be his age and have a relationship with caesar #and even more importantly him being younger is probably a key part in why she might have underestimated him #along with listening to antony but that man was just stupid #it's a recurring theme in octavian's early career: the people around him were older and because he was young he wasn't taken seriously #until he was at their doorstep burning down their house and killing everyone they knew and by then it was too late #i cannot believe hollywood is apparently finding it hard to cast a white woman who can play midtwenties to early forties!!!#denis i know you like these two but pls just executive produce and give the project over to me and let me overhaul it #(where i then scrap the cleopatra focus and make it either a three way show focusing on cleopatra octavian and herod)#(or i just get to make the octavian biopic show i've had in my head for like two years)

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reuben-7991 · 3 months

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Octavian’s treatment is one of my least favorite things about HoO because it isn’t his character, it’s his lack of one.

We COULD’VE had an excellent character who was a look into what could truly go wrong with blind devotion like Octavian’s, drawing an excellent parallel to Luke’s blind hatred in the original series (Percy even says Octavian reminds him of Luke).

We COULD’VE had a fantastic contrast into a follower’s descent into insanity after making empty promises of power whilst under the influence of a massively elder being, thus leading to said follower’s death.

What makes me especially mad is that Octavian has no backstory. This is a problem with a lot of Roman characters, but Octavian especially. He doesn’t even have a last name. All we know is:

- He’s a legacy of Apollo.

- He used to be sane and probably very charismatic, due to Reyna stating she used to have a crush on him in TTT.

That’s it! One of Rick’s gold stars is that his human characters are just that: human. They have motivations and flaws, deeply personal origins and ideals that affect their actions and their outcomes. None of the villains are just plain villains, evil by birth. They have motives to back up their actions (now weither those motives make sense or not, that’s another story, but they’re still there.) There’s Luke, Medea, Lityerses (who is an entire other can of worms), Circe, Loki, Gunilla, Randolph, hell, even Kronos and Gaea. All of them have reasons for the shitty stuff they did. Octavian is a glaring exception. We know he’s power-hungry, but we don’t know why. We know he’s violent, but we don’t know why. We know he hates the Greeks, but we don’t know why. You may argue ‘oh, he’s a minor character, he doesn’t really get a reasoning’ which is just blatantly untrue on both fronts.

1: Octavian is NOT a minor character in the slightest. He has major roles in the plot throughout the books.

2: Him being a ‘minor’ villain wouldn’t have anything to do with his motivation. Chris from the OG series has stated motivation, and he’s way more minor than Octavian.

Another thing is that Octavian’s insanity is played off almost comically. He’s relatively well put together in SoN, only being super dramatic and reportedly blackmailing Hazel and probably other legionnaires, but by BoO he’s absolutely broken. He’s utterly obsessed with being a hero to the Romans, with being Pontifex Maximus, with killing Gaea and almost proving himself to Apollo (who is utterly disgusted by him), but it’s all either framed as ‘hate this guy more plsplspls’ or brushed away to the side.

I’m torn on his death scene, because it’s a good scene overall but too much of it is humorous in my opinion. Between Will calling Octavian an ‘anemic loser’ (which like. what.) and Leo describing his screams as a little girl’s, it seems almost too light for such a pivotal point in the story. Octavian has truly lost himself to madness, ranting and raving and insisting no, HE has to be the one to kill Gaea, HE has to be a hero.

His death is horrific, yet it’s framed as a silly oopsie.

What the fuck.

Overall, Octavian is a shining example of missed character potential. We could have gotten the Riordan special and made to empathize more with our villain, like what happened with Luke or Randolph from MCGA, but all we get is a crazy blond kid, character so shallow he could count as a tide pool. It infuriates me to no end how in a sea of good, properly motivated antagonists, Octavian is the outlier.

It’s a real shame.

#there’s more but it’s 2 am rn #so #heroes of olympus #the heroes of olympus #hoo #percy jackson and the olympians #percy jackon and the olympians #octavian #hoo octavian #octavian hoo #character potential: WASTED #rant post #character rant #pjo hoo toa #i really hope i got my point across #this is kinda all over the place #and stupid #really stupid

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pigfacedbitch · 8 months

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You Like... Who?!

summary : you tell your sister that you're in love with Octavian.

word count : 1.02k

type : headcanons

pairing/s involved : Sibling! Annabeth Chase / Piper McLean / Hazel Levesque / Reyna Avila Ramirez-Arellano x Reader, Octavian x Reader

warning/s : is Octavian considered a warning?

here is my masterlist!

Note : I find him hot... sometimes. I know, I have a problem. Octavian likes you back, by the way. For those who have no idea what Amokinesis means, it's the ability to control emotions of love and desire.

Annabeth Chase

You are a child of Athena but she will look at you like you're the dumbest idiot she knows.

Just kidding, Annabeth is intelligent and will analyze this situation logically.

Best believe this Wise Girl will interview you. However, instead of an employer to an employee, it's more like a lawyer questioning a witness.

What qualities of Octavian do you like the most? When did you start liking him?...Do you love him? DO. YOU. LOVE. OCTAVIAN? Gods, answer (Y/N)!

After her interrogation, she will want to know what are you going to do about it.

Annabeth will give you the pros and cons of dating Octavian if you want to ask him out. She has long list of cons; he's arrogant, condescending, cruel— and many more.

"And the pros, Annabeth?"

Her face morphs into this 'zoned-out' look as she tries to think of any desirable qualities Octavian has, making you laugh.

"Wow, I can't think of anything."

Whether you like it or not, Annabeth will be there when you tell Octavian about your feelings. She'll be hiding (with the help of her invisibility cap), carefully watching his reaction.

She is flabbergasted when a sweet smile slowly forms on Octavian's lips before takes you in his arms, whispering into your ear promises of love.

She is happy for you but she will not hesitate to put Octavian in an onager catapult and throw him across Camp Jupiter if he screws this up.

Piper McLean

To be honest, Piper will genuinely think that Venus cursed you.

Her initial reaction is this; "What in Jupiter's name is mom planning now? Is she insane?"

Will she call out to your godly parent? Hell yes.

Venus appears right before the two of you with an intrigued look on her face. Being the goddess of love, of course she knows of your feelings towards Camp Jupiter's augur!

"Cure her of whatever curse this is."

"Our darling (Y/N) is not under any enchantment."

"It's Octavian, what is there to like?"

"Even the most dreadful of creatures deserve love, my dear. Besides, apart from me, no one else can control where love grows or where it falters."

This reminds her of Jason, silencing her.

Venus, realizing this, gingerly kisses Piper's forehead before placing a hand on your shoulder, telling you how Octavian feels the same.

"He does?"

"Of course, you're my child! Now, go and get him."

You look at Piper for support, you look unsure.

While she doesn't look as enthusiastic as your mother, she nods in encouragement.

You hug both of them before exiting the cabin. By the window, Piper and Venus sees you approach Octavian.

A few minutes later, you kiss him (something that still makes Piper want to barf) and he eagerly kisses you back.

"I will make his life a living hell if he hurts her." Piper whispers to Venus before your mother disappears into the thin air.

This made Venus proud. No matter how beautiful her children are, they are capable of terrifying things.

She just hopes that day will never come or else Octavian will surely meet his end.

Hazel Levesque

We all know Hazel is a very calm, sweet girl who will do no wrong unless she really has to.

But once you tell her about your feelings, she may act on impulse and confront Octavian immediately.

Why, you ask? Because like Piper, she'll think your under some spell. Except it's his doing.

Octavian has an evident malicious nature, a person who's willing to do catastrophic deeds to get what he wants.

So there's no way that someone like you could ever feel something for that oaf other than hatred and disgust...right?

You try to reason with her but she was determined.

She finds Octavian having a conversation with Reyna at the Garden of Bacchus.

Hazel promptly aims her spatha at his chest, demanding what he had done with you and how she will kill him if he doesn't solve it.

"What is going on?"

"(Y/N) likes him, it must be Amokinesis."

Both Reyna and Octavian's eyes widen as they look at you for further explanation.

Hazel didn't miss the blush on Octavian's cheeks and how the way the corners of his lips quirk into a small grin as he looks down, flustered.

"It's not Amokinesis, Hazel!"

"And I wouldn't do anything like that to (Y/N)."

Octavian replied, looking at you with such sincerity Hazel hasn't seen before.

Reyna looks back and forth between the three of you, delicately thinking of what to do. She settles the issue by getting you checked.

If there were no signs of Amokinesis then your feelings for Octavian are true.

After it was confirmed that it is, he didn't waste time and told you he shares your affections.

As much as Hazel loves you, she can never accept Octavian.

The two of them will remain in a bitter feud, only tolerating each other's presence for you.

And if Octavian hurts you? Let's just say Hazel (+ Nico) will make sure he spends eternity in Tartarus.

Reyna Avila Ramirez-Arellano

Reyna will say she's happy for you and urge you to speak more about your feelings.

As you ramble about; from when you realized you like Octavian to your daily interactions with him, Reyna will look for anything suspicious.

Octavian may be obnoxious, though no one can doubt he is a brilliant orator that can manipulate and charm people in his favor.

What if he used the same tactic on you?

Once your done, Reyna will just observe. She will take note anything; how Octavian acts, speaks, or talks about you.

After some time, she concludes that Octavian appears softer with you. Despite his reputation, you bring out another side of him; clement, calmer, more humane, and less evil.

I don't think any of them will particularly approve of him, especially Reyna.

Dating you will not completely change him. In fact, this makes her even more wary than ever.

What will she do if Octavian hurts you? Well, nothing really.

She would just smile, sit back, and enjoy the sight as you destroy him. You're a child of Bellona, after all.

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thatcrazypercyjacksonfan · 10 months

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Now, I’m not sure if anyone in the TOA fandom has ever mentioned “Tongs A Lot, Dad”, a short story found in Camp Half-Blood confidential, but I strongly believe it adds (or perhaps reinforces) a lot when looked at with the additional context and characterisation the Trials of Apollo provides.

An almost diary entry like addition in the short book, the story is told by Connor Stoll, following him and his brother as they poke around the old attic where the Oracle of Delphi remained for decades in the interest of scoring loot. At this they are semi successful, as they are made almost ridiculously vital to the canon plot of HoO with the find of celestial bronze tongs, which are inscribed with the instructions “for plucking the Tartarus Napkin from fire”. And if you are reading this post, you probably have a pretty good idea of why that’s important.

Now, what does this have to do with Apollo? Well, I find it highly probable that this was Apollo’s doing, for multiple reasons.

1. The tongs were found in the oracle of Delphi's old abode, which is obviously Apollo’s domain, a place you would think he’d be very familiar with- the original place of the Oracle of Delphi was sacred ground, in fact, and even if that doesn’t quite translate to modern day... there is that theory about him being Camp Half Bloods Patron, pioneered by @tsarisfanfiction, I believe. Whatever hold the ancient laws have on the gods, I think we can somewhat assume that places such as these allow more wriggle room.

2. This notably happened basically simultaneously with Rachel becoming the Oracle, as seen here, “While everyone else was waiting to see if Rachel, the new Oracle, would survive....we made our move around to the back door of the Big House.” At this point, we’ve just wrapped up PJO. How would Apollo of known to set this up now? Well, we already know from Octavian in SoN that Apollo talked to him personally, and that their talk must of happened before Olympus closed, because he was stuck on Delos after. So if Apollo can put that into play, why not set up this? After all, Apollo is the god of prophecy - he could of understood it was needed. He obviously knew there was a threat.

3. In the books (before ToA) we only see Apollo in Camp Half Blood twice- once to take Percy’s group and the hunters there in TTC, and once at the end of PJO to, as Conner so delightfully puts it, wait to see if Rachel would survive the Oracle. He was right there. And if that’s not enough for you, the reason Conner picks out the bag with the tongs? A “beam of golden light, shot upward from the floor” startles him. We find out later in another story that Apollo is directly confirmed to have been the one to do this- gifting Rachel the famous tripod stool of the Oracle. It fits almost to well.

“But!” You might say, protesting, “The title confirms who did it! I mean, it’s not like Apollo is Connor Stoll’s dad!” And to that I say- although the title does suggest that Hermes is responsible, it’s never confirmed, and more importantly- it’s in Connor’s POV. Why shouldn’t he assume it’s his dad? And why would he know otherwise? Perhaps you could make another connection with Hermes due to his shrine in Tartarus and point at that as his involvement, but wouldn’t it make more sense if Apollo knew it was a Child of Hermes who had to have the tongs, and acted accordingly? Afterall, last we saw Hermes he had a significant grudge against Annabeth, and more importantly has done nothing to suggest he’s capable of such foresight, especially at this point.

Now that I have (hopefully) convinced you of Apollo’s involvement, another titular question must be answered- why does it matter? What’s the ramifications of this? Well, considering that this napkin basically ends the civil war between the Greeks and the Romans... a lot, actually. Specifically, it allows Annabeth to communicate that reconciliation can be reached if Reyna, a Roman, returns the Athena Parthenos, an important Greek statue to the Greeks. (Also interesting to note she addresses this to Rachel, Apollo’s Oracle... another subtle connection).

In ToA, Zeus punishes Apollo mainly for two stated reasons: Revealing the Prophecy to soon, which becomes pretty clear is not how prophecy works. And encouraging Octavian to declare war on the Greeks. But wait? If the Napkin succeeds due to Apollo, that means that he is trying to stop the war, which in my opinion follows more along with his characterisation in ToA. So what happened with Octavian? The fact of the matter is, people more clever then me have attempted to solve this question, such as @zazzander and @fearlessinger (Highly recommend this post if you are interested in the topic!)

The tongs (and thus the potential for the Napkin) was put into place months before any true threat would be realised by most characters. So it wasn’t a frantic backpedal of trying to fix his mistakes to avoid punishment by Apollo. It was deliberate. Premeditated. Now, it could be that Apollo just knew the tongs would be needed, but not what for. Unfortunately, we don’t know how his powers work. But that’s boring. However, if you take the view that Apollo’s communication with Octavian was part of a larger strategy to reunite the camps... (again, see the linked post). Well. Funny thing, because that’s exactly what the Napkin facilitates. The two camps stop fighting because of this one, simple message, and the effect it had. They focus on the true enemy. Gaia.

What does this tell us then about Apollo, then?

Well...not much new, surprisingly. ToA does it’s job well. We know Apollo cares, deeply, about his kids and demigods as a whole. We know he often acts subtly, through quiet actions that he’ll never admit to. It’s maybe the final piece of evidence you could point to and say definitively that Zeus’s punishment was unjust, but we already knew that (although funnily enough, Zeus doesn’t- and even if he did, he’d probably just point to the violation of the interference laws and punish Apollo anyway.) What it does is add on to a very firm characterisation that ToA finalises, and showcases how once again Apollo is so much more then he first appears.

#Did I focus way to much on a story of dubious canon?#Yes #Do I regret it?#No #Apollo meta #Apollo #ToA Apollo #Pjo Apollo #PJO #TOA #Trials of Apollo #lester papadopoulos #I have been meaning to do this for ages #I just think it's a really neat detail... but it just kept getting longer #Oh well #this meta is just me being insane for #roughly 1k words erbherf

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