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#and we understand that putting a queer character in situations that erase that queerness is shitty! until it comes to aspec characters!

itsclydebitches · 10 months

Note

On the topic of the Curious Cat: As an enby, I don't know how to feel about the fact that the first major characters in RWBY who were canonically enby were a) animals from a whole different world b) killed off in the same volume that introduced them.

Actually, no, I do know how I feel about that.

Little: A mouse who has, by their own admission, no purpose in life and thus swears to help the group on their quest... except they don't. No time is spent developing Little or demonstrating how they're beneficial as an ally. They're squashed to death by the villain during a pseudo-suicide scene and then magically reappear as a totally different person, which is presented as a good thing. They're left behind by the story, presumably never to be seen again.

Curious: A cat who is first presented as an annoyance that the group doesn't want to deal with, then as an outright villain who has been manipulating them this whole time. The story refuses to engage with the ways in which their situation is both relatable and sympathetic, instead having them suddenly gain the power of possession/physical transformation for a lackluster fight scene. They're torn apart by the illusion of another villain that only existed for one episode and, for obvious reasons, will likely never be seen again.

Yeah. I wonder why fans, particularly enby fans, would be unhappy with this representation...

You know, I've brought this up before but I think it's really important to keep in mind that RWBY is an ongoing series. Any representation that's introduced to the canon is, for a significant length of time, the only representation we have and that severely colors our feelings towards the show as a whole. Lately there have been some angry posts about people calling Blake/Yang queerbaiting and they're right, by definition it can't possibly be queerbaiting because they were made canon... but we thought it might be for several years. That's the criticism. The later you're introduced to RWBY and the more you have to binge watch, the less likely you are to understand the issue with these portrayals—especially with a fandom that will talk up what you have to look forward to if you just keep watching to X Volume. Why would I be upset with a stalker, villain lesbian when Saphron and Terra are so cute and just around the corner? Why would I think trans rep is an issue when Mae is arriving in Volume 7? How can anyone possibly claim that the queer rep is bad when the flagship, main character couple kissed on screen and I've already seen the beautiful, romantic GIFs of the moment? Putting aside other issues here (how long queer characters last, the lack of rep for men, etc.) fans ignore the staggeringly long time we were not only waiting for rep, but then waiting for what many would consider positive rep. For years all we had was a lesbian who wanted to kill the parents of the woman who didn't return her affections (notably with the implication that Blake was might be straight...) and a super duper minor character who isn't actually gay because they wanted to kill him off. For years all we had was Coco leering at women behind her sunglasses in the novels, or the hint of gay side-characters in other teams, while Blake and Yang continued a multi-Volume will-they-won't-they dance. For years we've had queer character appear for a few episodes only—the cute couple, the trans activist—before disappearing from the story because they're not important enough to make a core part of the tale. The fact that we have Blake/Yang now doesn't erase those feelings leading up to their canonization.

Now here we are again. "How can you be unhappy with the nonbinary rep?" someone might ask in a few years time, if RWBY continues and we've gotten another cute, minor, short-lived character who uses they/them pronouns. Well, it's because in 2023 everyone was waiting to see if the show would even return and in that uncertainty all we had for rep were two literal animals who were horrifically killed by the story and then left behind, one a full-fledged villain whose death we're meant to celebrate. I'm all for a diversity of representation—I'm by no means saying all your queer characters have to be heroes, or even decent people. I love me a queer villain—but when that's all you've currently got in a show that's struggled both with its rep on screen and its treatment of queer employees... it doesn't feel great.

#rwde #rwby #mymetas

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butmakeitgayblog · 10 days

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Another anon here and regarding straights enjoying queer fiction, there's a perspective I think is worth sharing (for the record, I'm not straight).

So there's a huge fanbase consisting of straight cis women who enjoy mlm content. It's a thing to the point where there's gay shows made specifically targeting this fanbase.

I got to talk to one of my friends who dabbled in this stuff. I asked her why? What's the draw? She pointed out sth I thought was pretty interesting.

She said that for straight girls it can be pretty hard to enjoy straight pairings because they will always experience the story through the eyes of the female character, who is also limited by societal rules or even gender roles. By watching/reading a mlm, there's no female perspective, which takes away all the irl problems.

For example, take the "if guys get sex it's a flex, if girls get sex it's a shame" bullshit. By watching mlm instead of mlw and watching through one or both male characters, they can escape the whole stigma altogether.

To take a step further, since there's an inherent safety/advantage in being a guy in many situations. They can sort of experience that freedom through taking the female character out of the equation. It's sort of like getting gender euphoria but instead it's gender role freedom euphoria???

Theres also the male gaze problem. The majority of straight shoes have gender roles to varying degrees, which skewers the power dynamic within the pairing. This makes it hard for straight girls to enjoy pairings bc they will always be put into a position where they notice inequalities toward them. So again escape.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, I agree that this topic is pretty complex.

It is! It's very complex. But just to kind of comment on some of your points - a lot(not all) of the straight women who consume mlm media tend to consume it to the exclusion of everything else.

I could possibly understand the points your friend made better if they also consumed things like mlw media and fics written by women, or wlw fics/media at all. But they generally don't, especially not the latter. Often times a lot of straight women mass-consumers of mlm fic and commercial media, in my experience at least, tend to treat wlw content with disgust, ridicule, or flat out indifference. Perhaps not to the same vitriolic degree straight men tend to treat mlm content compared to wlw content, but it's still there. So that kind of... makes me question if they're actually being entirely honest with themselves as to why they're consuming the specific content that they do.

I'm just saying, straight women can be just as guilty as straight men when it comes to how and why they approach the specific queer media that they do, especially when it's to the exclusion of other kinds of queer pairings.

Because I pose this: if it really all falls down to power dynamics and releasing themselves from the male gaze, then why focus exclusively on a gendered pairing that just erases the woman entirely? Why a pairing that focuses solely on a basic personal sexual preference? Makes women irrelevant to existence? Why not gravitate toward more straight women writers who thwart or rewrite a lot of those societal gender inequities that effect women within their work? Why not give respect or audience to wlw content that makes the male gaze and male/female power dynamics irrelevant as well?

See what I'm saying?

That being said, it's still not my job to police that consumption for all the same reasons I said in that last post. And to reiterate, I'm not saying your friend is wrong for feeling how she feels or that she's making it up. I don't think that at all! People have a lot of complex feelings, which is why this topic is inherently complex. I just think two things can be true at the same time, even when we may not realize those biases about ourselves

#anon

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seytazen · 2 years

Text

Looking For Transformers Roleplay Partners!

If you’re interested DM me!

Must meet the following criteria

Must be between 18-26 (Note: I am 19 and if you’re 17 going on 18 in a matter of months or weeks we can talk about it or something like that and just avoid NSFW topics)

Okay and Willing to play with queer relationships. I don’t tolerate “F x M ONLY” very well.

Literate and Paragraph style. I’m talking grammar, speaking in full sentences, using punctuation correctly, and at least a small paragraph of content to work with typically.

You must be willing to play more than one character

You must be willing to play cannon characters outside of an OC

Must be willing to go outside of cannon plot.

If you meet these requirements then read on to see if you are interested!

Rules I have For RPing

For the both of us!

Communication is key outside of Roleplay.

If you’ll be absent for longer than usual, give me a heads up if you can. Note that I won’t be mad if you can’t, I’m just anxious lol.

If you aren’t doing well enough mentally to roleplay, let me know. We don’t gotta go into detail, just keep me in the loop to know you’re okay.

If you loose interest in roleplaying with me, that’s okay too. Just let me know. I’m just happy we had the chance!

Did I do something to upset you? We should talk about it!

2. Commutation is key inside of Roleplay

Wanna kill off a character for the drama? Run it by me. Chances are I’ll be all over it. Let’s talk about who cries the hardest.

Feeling like ripping apart a relationship? Let’s talk about it and what kind of consequences it could have on everyone else and what they did to make it get that way.

Not feeling smut suddenly in the middle of a smut scene? Let me know and we’ll just fast forward it.

A scene triggers you? Not on my watch. We’ll erase it out of the narrative and find something else. It’s cool. We can decompress with fluffy shit or take a break whatever ya need.

Things I am NOT triggered by (we’ll avoid them COMPLETELY if you would like, but the subjects on this list do not bother me when placed in fiction)

This list is a list of things that simply don’t bother me in fiction. If they are applied to fictional characters in backstory or plot wise- it doesn’t bother me to refer back to it, to put a character through the aftermath of it, or for a character to have trauma from these categories.

If you have something in mind that isn’t on any list, ask me! I would like to add in that These are things that some people don’t do, but I have no issues doing them. If something triggers you on this list and you still want to roleplay, just let me know and we won’t touch it.

Mpreg

Smut

Kink

Gore

Medical scenes

Torture

Battle scenes

Mental health

SHarm

Sewerslide

Abusive Situations

SA Situations *

Substance Abuse

R**e *

* situations that will fade to black if they happen in story line.

A little bit about my Roleplay style

I’m okay with any transformers continuity, but I really like to drift between continuities. IE: we start with Prime-verse in mind, but maybe we find the characters turning a little bland and we introduce a ship crashing to Earth with Prowl, Jazz, and Rung on it.

I also tend to want to roleplay in chunks with multiple things going on in real time. It ends up looking something like this.

Me: Ratchet shook his helm, muttering angrily to himself as he listened to the pedsteps retreat away from him down the hallway. Why could anyone understand what needed to be done? Why did he alway have to fix everything? He grabbed the bin from the counter and started filling it with solvent. He was just frustrated, honestly. He knew this feeling would pass- it always did- but it still felt unpleasant. He shut the tap off and dumped the pail of tools that needed to be cleaned into the bin and began scrubbing away.

Optimus strolled across the smooth pavement. The air felt empty and cold around him. Regret was starting to rise in his chest. He tried to keep it down the best he could but it was a fruitless battle. He turned his optics to the foreign stars that twinkled down at him. When would he feel like he belonged here?

Arcee chuckled bitterly. “Is that really what you think?” She kept her back turned. “I don’t think you really understand then. Leave me alone.”

And then you would reply in kind to each section. If a scene came to a natural end, we would simply drop the paragraph. I’m also open to learning a new style if you have something different in mind!

Genre

I’m open to pretty much anything. As long as it’s entertaining I’ll do anything from action to slice of life. Of course I live by the idea that a good roleplay has a little bit of everything in it.

Triggers

So I don’t really have any when it comes to roleplay. Truly, I’m good with a lot of ‘dead dove: do not eat’ shit. Just let me know what you’re wanting to avoid!

Things that I don’t do

I don’t like Cybertronian x Human. At all. Not willing to budge. Nope.

I’m not interested in Humanformers AU where they’re all just humans and that the AU. (If there’s an interesting twist you have in mind, then I might budge on this one.)

MerAu (This one can change in the future, just really haven’t been appealed by it lately)

Optimus/Bumblebee. Not budging on this one. It just ick for me. Might compromise but not promising.

Ratchet calling his significant other “kid.” It just weirds me out in roleplay, I don’t know why. (We can compromise on this one with a different pet name)

Tropes I really Like

I crave a lot of phycological stuff. Really digging into internal struggles.

Finding Love and developing a deep connection

Inopportune Families. I love whoopsie sparklings, found this child in the rubble and there’s literally no where else to put him and bots making it work.

I do like Mpreg with Transformers for the pure drama of it. I love it but the one above this is also a great alternative.

Grieving a major loss and trudging though it (agnst agnst agnst)

Hurt/Comfort I am weak for.

“Things are shit right now, but we’re gonna make it through… maybe..” attitudes

Therapy.

Where I RP

(In order of preference)

Discord (This is the best)

Tumblr DM

Text

Quotev

Will download and make an account for elsewhere. I’m flexible.

Plot

I tend to treat my roleplay just like I do my DND campaigns. We talk about what kinda things we’re in the mood for and we build as we go. Have a brilliant idea of what if this happened? I’m interested. Tell me about it and we’ll go from there.

We can start with a few characters on Cybertron pre-canon and go from there. We can go and do the war and really focus on individual things that didn’t get shown in canon and go from there.

We can even do an AU if ya want! Some cool plothooks I’ve thought are interesting are

Slice of Suburban Life - The war never happened and they all lead suburban dull lives with some twists and turns. Potential to turn out Vibing like Breaking Bad, the Office, Weeds, Good Luck Charlie, etc.

Royalty AU - More centered around Optimus. When he’s named Prime he gets inserted into leading the Cybertronian Empire and it’s a lot to learn. Potential to lead into a War arc, lean more into politics, exploring Optimus’s character development and the pressures leadership causes. Potential to build from slice of life to action.

Rebuilding Cybertron - After the war tensions are high as they rebuilt and try to move past a war that they’ve lived in for eons. Things are difficult, bots keep coming back to Cybertron expecting glittering buildings and structure and they’re finding settlement among the wreckage and only a few bots keeping everything together. Possible leans more into Cyberverse.

Shattered Glass - Megatron leads the Decepticons and Optimus leads the autobots, but the one who’s lost sight of what the war was supposed to achieve isn’t Megatron this time.

Galactic Council - The war sort of simmers down and eventually the galactic version of the UN catches up to Optimus and Megatron. They send in their representatives and things get messy between negotiating, addressing war crimes between the two leaders, and the humans inexplicably being exposed to the entire cosmos of otherworldly beings. Potential to evolve into a high stakes political game. House of Cards esque, Handmade’s Tail ish. Potential to get to more The Office-ish.

Time Travel - Perhaps something happens and someone that survived most of the war gets zapped back to months before everything fell down in a ball of fire. Perhaps it’s Optimus back in Orion’s body preparing to stand before the council.

Start of the time line - Maybe we start with the day Megatronus and Orion Pax meet and go from there. Potential to be more Build-Your-Own-Continuity ish.

Any more questions for me that I didn’t cover? Ask me! My DM is open or if ya wanna stay anonymous until you’re comfy, then you can ask me anonymously too!

#seytazen’s drabbles #daily does of headcannons #Transformers #transformers prime #transformers rid15 #transformers idw #TFP #optimus prime #megatron #roleplay #fandom roleplay #transformers roleplay #transformers rp #fandom rp #rp #discord chat #transformers au

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shkspr · 3 years

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hi. on your post where you may or may not have ended on 'moffat is either your angel or your devil' did you have maybe an elaboration on that somewhere that i could possibly hear about. i'm very much a capaldi era stan and i've never tried to defend the matt smith era even though it had delightful moments sometimes so i wonder where that puts me. i'd love to hear your perspective on moffat as a person with your political perspective. -nicole

hi ok sorry i took so long to respond to this but i dont think you know how LOADED this question is for me but i am so happy to elaborate on that for you. first a few grains of salt to flavor your understanding of the whole situation: a. im unfairly biased against moffat bc im a davies stan and a tennant stan; b. i still very much enjoy and appreciate moffat era who for many reasons; and c. i hate moffat on a personal level far more than i could ever hate his work.

the thing is that its all always gonna be a bit mixed up bc i have to say a bunch of seemingly contradictory things in a row. for instance, a few moffat episodes are some of my absolute favorites of the rtd era, AND the show went way downhill when moffat took over, AND the really good episodes he wrote during the rtd era contained the seeds of his destruction.

like i made that post about the empty child/the doctor dances and it holds true for blink and thats about it bc the girl in the fireplace and silence in the library/forest of the dead are good but not nearly on the same level, and despite the fact that i like them at least nominally, they are also great examples of everything i hate about moffat and how he approached dw as a whole.

basically. doctor who is about people. there are many things about moffats tenure as showrunner that i think are a step up from rtd era who! actual gay people, for one! but i think that can likely be attributed mostly to an evolving Society as opposed to something inherent to him and his work, seeing as rtd is literally gay, and the existence of queer characters in moffats work doesnt mean the existence of good queer characters (ill give him bill but thats it!)

i have a few Primary Grievances with moffat and how he ran dw. all of them are things that got better with capaldi, but didnt go away. they are as follows:

moffat projects his own god complex onto the doctor

rtd era who had a doctor with a god complex. you cant ever be the doctor and not have a god complex. the problem with moffats era specifically is that the god complex was constant and unrepentant and was seen as a fundamental personality trait of the doctor rather than a demon he has to fight. he has the Momence where you feel bad for him, the Momence where he shows his humility or whatever and youre reminded that he doesnt want to be the lonely god, but those are just. moments. in a story where the doctor thinks hes the main character. rtd era doctor was aware that he wasnt the main character. he had to be an authority sometimes and he had to be the loner and he had to be sad about it, but he ultimately understood that he was expendable in a narrative sense.

this is how you get lines like “were the thin fat gay married anglican marines, why would we need names as well?” from the same show that gave you the gut punch moment at the end of midnight when they realize that nobody asked the hostess for her name. and on the one hand, thats a small sticking point, but on the other hand, its just one small example of the simple disregard that moffat has for humanity.

incidentally, this is a huge part of why sherlock sucked so bad: moffats main characters are special bc theyre so much bigger and better than all the normal people, and thats his downfall as a showrunner. he thinks that his audience wants fucking sheldon cooper when what they want is people.

like, ok. think of how many fantastic rtd era eps are based in the scenario “what if the doctor wasnt there? what if he was just out of commission for a bit?” and how those eps are the heart of the show!! bc theyre about people being people!! the thing is that all of the rtd era companions would have died for the doctor but he understood and the story understood that it wasnt about him.

this is like. nine sending rose home to save her life and sacrifice his own vs clara literally metaphysically entwining her existence w the doctor. ten also sending rose with her family to save her life vs river being raised from infancy to be obsessed w the doctor and then falling in love w him. martha leaving bc she values herself enough to make that decision vs amy being treated like a piece of meat.

and this is simultaneously a great callback to when i said that moffats episodes during the rtd era sometimes had the same problems as his show running (bc girl in the fireplace reeks of this), and a great segue into the next grievance.

moffat hates women

he hates women so fucking much. g-d, does steven moffat ever hate women. holy shit, he hates women. especially normal human women who prioritize their normal human lives on an equal or higher level than the doctor. moffat hated rose bc she wasnt special by his standards. the empty child/the doctor dances is the nicest he ever treated her, and she really didnt do much in those eps beyond a fuck ton of flirting.

girl in the fireplace is another shining example of this. youve got rose (who once again has another man to keep her busy, bc moffat doesnt think shes good enough for the doctor) sidelined for no reason only to be saved by the doctor at the last second or whatever. and then youve got reinette, who is pretty and powerful and special!

its just. moffat thinks that the doctor is as shallow and selfish as he is. thats why he thinks the doctor would stay in one place with reinette and not with rose. bc moffat is shallow and sees himself in the doctor and doesnt think he should have to settle for someone boring and normal.

not to mention rose met the doctor as an adult and chose to stay with him whereas reinette is. hm. introduced to the doctor as a child and grows up obsessed with him.

does that sound familiar? it should! bc it is also true of amy and river. and all of them are treated as viable romantic pairings. bc the only women who deserve the doctor are the ones whose entire existence revolves around him. which includes clara as well.

genuinely i think that at least on some level, not even necessarily consciously, that bill was a lesbian in part bc capaldi was too old to appeal to mainstream shippers. like twelve/clara is still a thing but not as universally appealing as eleven/clara but i am just spitballing. but i think they weighed the pros and cons of appealing to the woke crowd over the het shippers and found that gay companion was more profitable. anyway the point is to segue into the next point, which is that moffat hates permanent consequences.

moffat hates permanent consequences

steven moffat does not know how to kill a character. honestly it feels like hes doing it on purpose after a certain point, like he knows he has this habit and hes trying to riff on it to meme his own shit, but it doesnt work. it isnt funny and it isnt harmless, its bad writing.

the end of the doctor dances is so poignant and so meaningful and so fucking good bc its just this once! everybody lives, just this once! and then he does p much the same thing in forest of the dead - this one i could forgive, bc i do think that preserving those peoples consciousnesses did something for the doctor as a character, it wasnt completely meaningless. but everything after that kinda was.

rory died so many times its like. get a hobby lol. amy died at least once iirc but it was all a dream or something. clara died and was erased from the doctors memory. river was in prison and also died. bill? died. all of them sugarcoated or undone or ignored by the narrative to the point of having effectively no impact on the story. the point of a major character death is that its supposed to have a point. and you could argue that a piece of art could be making a point with a pointless death, ie. to put perspective on it and remind you that bad shit just happens, but with moffat the underlying message is always “i can do whatever i want, nothing is permanent or has lasting impact ever.”

basically, with moffat, tragedy exists to be undone. and this was a really brilliant, really wonderful thing in the doctor dances specifically bc it was the doctor clearly having seen his fair share of tragedy that couldnt be helped, now looking on his One Win with pride and delight bc he doesnt get wins like this! and then moffat proceeded to give him the same win over and over and over and over. nobody is ever dead. nobody is ever unable to be saved. and if they are, really truly dead and/or gone, then thats okay bc moffat has decided that [insert mitigating factor here]*

*the mitigating factor is usually some sort of computerized database of souls.

i can hear the moffat stans falling over themselves to remind me that amy and rory definitely died, and they did - after a long and happy life together, they died of old age. i dont consider that a character death any more than any other character choosing to permanently leave the tardis.

and its not just character deaths either, its like, everything. the destruction of gallifrey? never mind lol! character development? scrapped! the same episode four times? lets give it a fifth try and hope nobody notices. bc he doesnt know how to not make the doctor either an omnipotent savior or a self-pitying failure.

it is in nature of doctor who, i believe, for the doctor to win most of the time. like, it wouldnt be a very good show if he didnt win most of the time. but it also wouldnt be a very good show if he won all of the time. my point is that moffats doctor wins too often, and when he doesnt win, it feels empty and hollow rather than genuinely humbling, and you know hes not gonna grow from it pretty much at all.

so like. again, i like all of doctor who i enjoy all of it very much. i just think that steven moffat is a bad show runner and a decent writer at times. and it is frustrating. and im not here to convince or convert anyone im just living my truth. thank you for listening.

#sorry if this is repetitive or makes no sense or if i got some details of the show wrong #i simply couldnt be bothered to put too much effort into this post #lest it become a research paper and take me several weeks to answer #anyway thats all my opinions #dw #ok to rb

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vickyvicarious · 3 years

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Leverage Redemption Pros/Cons List

Okay! Now that I've finally finished watching the first half of Leverage: Redemption, I thought I'd kind of sum up my overall impression. Sort of a pro/con list, except a little more just loosely structured rambles on each bullet point rather than a simple list.

This got way out of hand from what I expected so I'm going to put it all under a cut. If you want the actual bulletpoint list, here it is:

PROS

References

Continuity

Nate

Representation

Themes

New Characters

General Vibe

CONS

'Maker and Fixer'

Episode Twins

Sophie's Stagefright

Thiefsome

You might notice the pros list is longer, and that's because I do love the show! I really like most of what it does, and my gripes are fewer in number and mostly smaller in size. But they do exist and I felt like talking about them as well as the stuff I loved.

PROS

References

There is clearly so much love and respect for the original show here. Quite aside from the general situation, there's a lot of references to individual episodes or character traits from the first show. For example, Parker's comments on disliking clowns, liking puppets, disliking horses, stabbing vs. tasing people. The tasing was an ongoing thing in the original, the stabbing happened once (S1) but was referenced later in the original show, the clown thing only had a few mentions scattered across the entire original show. The puppet thing was mentioned once in S5, and the horses thing in particular was only brought up in S1 once. But they didn't miss the chance to put the nod to it in there; in fact with those alone we see a good mix of common/ongoing jokes and smaller details.

We got "dammit Hardison" and "it's a very distinctive..." but also Eliot and Parker arguing about him catering a mob wedding, and Eliot being delighted by lemon as a secret ingredient in a dish in that same episode (another reference to the mob episode). Hardison and Eliot banter about "plan M", an ongoing joke starting from the very first episode of the original show. We see Sophie bring up Hardison's accent in the Ice Job, Parker also makes reference to an early episode when describing "backlash effect" to Breanna, in an episode that also references her brother slightly if you look for it.

Heck, the last episode of these first eight makes a big deal out of nearly reproducing the iconic opening lines of the original show with Fake Nate's "we provide... an advantage." And I mean, all the "let's go steal a ___" with Harry being confused about how to use them.

Some of the lines are more obviously references to the original show, but they strike a decent balance with smaller or unspoken stuff as well, and also mix in some references between the team to events we the audience have never seen. If someone was coming into this show for the first time, they wouldn't get all the easter egg joy but most of the references would stand on their own as dialogue anyway. In general, I think they struck a good balance of restating needed context for new viewers while still having enough standalone good lines and more-fun-if-you-get-it callbacks.

Continuity

Similar to the last point, but slightly different. The characters' development from the original to now is shown so well. I'm not going to go on about this too long, but the writers clearly didn't want to let the original characters stagnate during the offscreen years. There was a lot of real thought put into how they would change or not.

It's really written well. We can see just how cohesive a team Parker, Hardison, and Eliot became. We get a sense of how they've spent their time, and there's plenty of evidence that they remained incredibly close with Sophie and Nate until this past year. The way everyone defers to Parker is different from the original show and clearly demonstrates how she's been well established as the leader for years now - they show this well even as Parker is stepping back to let Sophie take point in these episodes. Eventually that is actually called out by Sophie in the eighth episode, so we might see more mastermind Parker in the back half of the show, maybe. But even with her leading, it's clear how collaborative the team has become, with everyone bouncing ideas off one another and adding their input freely. Sometimes they even get so caught up they leave the newbies completely in the dust. But for the most part we get a good sense of how the Parker/Hardison/Eliot team worked with her having final say on plans but the others discussing everything together. A little bit more collaborative than it was with Nate at the helm.

Meanwhile Sophie has built a home and is deeply attached to it. She and Nate really did retire, at least for the most part, and she was living her happy ending until he died. She's out of practice but still as skilled as ever, and we're shown how much her grief has changed her and how concerned the others are for her.

There's a lot of emphasis on how they all look after one another and the found family is clearer than ever. Sophie even calls Hardison "his father's son" - clearly referring to Nate.

Nate

Speaking of Nate! They handled his loss so, so well. His story was the most complete at the end of the last show, and just from a narrative point, losing him makes the most sense of all the characters. But the way he dies and his impact on the show and the characters continues. It's very respectful to who he was - who he truly was.

Nate was someone they all loved, but he was a deeply flawed individual. Sophie talks about how he burned too hot, but at least he burned - possibly implying to me that his drinking was related to his death. In any case, there's no mystery to it. We don't know how he died but that's not what's most important about his death. This isn't a quest for revenge or anything... it's just a study of grief and trying to heal.

Back to who he really was real quick - the show doesn't eulogize him as better than he was. They're honest about him. From the first episode's toast they raise in his memory, to the final episode where Sophie and Eliot are deeply confused by Fake Nate singing his praises, the team knows who he was. They don't erase his flaws... but at the same time he was so clearly theirs. He was family, he was the man they trusted and loved and followed into incredibly dangerous situations, and whose loss they all still feel deeply.

That said, the show doesn't harp on this point. They reference him, but they don't overwhelm new viewers with a constant barrage of Nate talk. It always serves a purpose, primarily for Sophie's storyline of moving through her grief. Anyway, @robinasnyder said all of this way better than me here, so go read that as well.

Representation

Or should I say, Jewish Hardison, Autistic Parker, Queer Breanna!

Granted, Hardison's religion isn't quite explicitly stated to be Jewish so much as he mentions that his "Nana runs a multi-denominational household", but nonetheless. He gets the shows big thesis statement moment, he gets a beautiful speech about redemption that is the emotional cornerstone of that episode and probably Harry's entire arc throughout the show. And while I'm not Jewish myself, most of what I've seen from Jewish fans is saying that Hardison's words here were excellent representation of their beliefs. (@featherquillpen does a great job in that meta of contextualizing this with his depiction in the original show as well.)

Autistic Parker, however, is shown pretty dang blatantly. She already was very much coded as autistic in the original show, but the reboot has if anything gone further. She sees a child psychologist because she likes using puppets to represent emotions, she stims, she uses cue cards and pre-written scripts for social interactions, there's mention of possible texture sensitivity and her clothes are generally more loose and comfortable. She's gotten better at performing empathy and understanding how people typically work, but it's specifically described as something she learned how to do and she views her brain as being different from ones that work that way (same link). Again, not autistic myself but from what I've seen autistic fans find a lot to relate to in her portrayal. And best of all, this well-rounded and respectful depiction does not show any of these qualities as a lack on her part. There's no more of those kinda ableist comments or "what's wrong with you" jokes that were in the original show. Parker is the way she is, and that allows her to do things differently. She's loved for who she is, and any effort made to fit in is more just to know how so that she can use it to her advantage when she wants to on the job - for her convenience, not others' comfort.

Speaking of loved for who you are.... okay, again, queer Breanna isn't confirmed onscreen yet, and I don't count Word of God as true canon. But I can definitely believe we're building there. Breanna dresses in a very GNC way, and just her dialogue and, I dunno, vibes seem very queer to me. She has a beautiful speech in the Card Game Job about not belonging or being accepted and specifically mentions "the way they love" as one of those things that made her feel like she didn't belong. And that scene is given so much weight and respect. (Not to mention other hints throughout the episode about how much finding her own space meant to her.) Also, the whole theme of feeling rejected and the key for her to begin really flourishing is acceptance for who she is, not any desire for her to be anyone else, is made into another big moment. Yeah, textually that moment is about her feeling like she has to fill Hardison's shoes and worrying about her past, but the themes are there, man.

Themes

I talked a bit about this yesterday, so I'm mostly just going to link to that post, but... this series so far is doing a really good job in my opinion of giving people arcs and having some good themes. Namely the redemption one, from Hardison's speech (which I'm gonna talk a little more about in the next point), and this overall theme of growing up and looking to the future (from above the linked post).

New Characters

Harry and Breanna are fantastic characters. I was kind of worried about Harry being a replacement Nate, but... he really isn't. Sure, he's the older white guy who has an angsty past but it's in a very different way and his personality and relationships with the rest of the crew are correspondingly different. I think the dynamic of a very friendly, cheerful, kind, but still bad guy (as @soundsfaebutokay points out) is a great one to show, and he's got a really cool arc I think of learning to be a better person, and truly understanding Hardison's point about redemption being a process not a goal. His role on the team also has some interesting applications and drawbacks, as @allegorymetaphor talked about. I've kind of grown to think that the show is gradually building up to an eventual Sophie/Harry romance a ways down the line, and I'm actually here for it. Regardless, his relationships with everyone are really interesting.

As for Breanna, first of all and most importantly I love her. Secondly, I think she's got a really interesting story. She's a link to Hardison's past, and provides a really interesting perspective for us as someone younger who has grown up a) looking up to Leverage and b) in a bleaker and more hopeless world. Breanna's not an optimist, and she's not someone who was self-sufficient and unconcerned with the rest of the world at the start, like everyone else. She believes that the world sucks and she wants it to be better, but she doesn't know how to make that happen. She outright says she's desperate and that's why she's working with Leverage. At the same time, Breanna is pretty down on herself and wants to prove herself but gets easily shaken by mistakes or being scolded, which is a stark contrast to Hardison's general self-confidence. There are several times when she starts to have an idea then hesitates to share it, or expects her emotions to be dismissed, or gets really disheartened when she's corrected or rejected, or dwells on her mistakes, or when she is accepted or praised she usually takes a surprised beat and is shy about it (she almost always looks down and away from the person, and her smile is often small or startled). Breanna looks up to the team so much (Parker especially, then probably Eliot) and she wants to prove herself. It's going to be so good to see her grow.

General Vibe

A brief note, but it seems a fitting one to end on. The show keeps it's overall tone and feeling from the original show. The fun, the competency porn, the bad guys and clever plans and happy endings. It's got differences for sure, but the characters are recognizably themselves and the show as a whole is recognizably still Leverage. For the most part they just got the feeling right, and it's really nice.

CONS (no, not that kind)

'Maker and Fixer'

So when I started writing this meta earlier today, I was actually a lot more annoyed by the lack of unique 'maker' skills being shown by Breanna. Basically the only time she tries to use a drone, the very thing she introduced herself as being good at, it breaks instantly. I was concerned about her being relegated into just doing what Hardison did, instead of bringing her own stuff to the table. But the seventh episode eased some of those fears, and the meta I just wrote for someone else asking about Breanna's 'maker' skills as shown this season made me realize there's more nuance than that. I'd still like to have seen more of that from her, but for now the fact that we don't see a lot of 'maker' from her so far seems more like a character decision based in Breanna's insecurities.

Harry definitely gets more 'inside man' usage. His knowledge as a 'fixer' comes in handy several times. Nonetheless, I'm really curious if there are any bigger ways to use it, aside from him just adding in some exposition/insight from time to time. I'm not even entirely sure how much more they can pull from this premise in terms of relevant skills, but I hope there's more and I'd like to see it. Maybe a con built more around him playing a longer role playing his old self, like they tried in the Tower Job? Maybe it's more a matter of him needed distance from that part of his past, being unable to face it without lashing out - in that case it could be a good character growth moment possibly for him to succeed in being Scummy Lawyer again down the line? I dunno.

Episode Twins

This was something small that kind of bothered me a little earlier in the season. It's kind of the negative side to the references, I guess? And I'm not even sure how much it annoys me really, but I just kinda noticed and felt sort of weird about it.

Rollin' on the River has a lot of references/callbacks to the The Wedding Job.

The Tower Job has a lot of references/callbacks to The White Rabbit Job.

The Paranormal Hacktivity Job has a lot of references/callbacks to the Future Job.

I guess I was getting a little concerned that there would be a 'match this episode' situation where almost every new Redemption episode is very reminiscent of an old one. I love the callbacks, but I don't want to see a lack of creativity in this new show, and this worried me for a minute. Especially when it was combined with all three of those episodes dealing with housing issues of some kind. Now, that's a huge concern for a lot of people, and each episode has its own take on a different problem within that huge umbrella, but it still got me worried about a lack of variety in topics/cases.

The rest of the episodes failing to line up so neatly in my head with older episodes helped a lot to ease this one, though. Still, this is my complaining section so I figured I'd express my concerns as they were at the time. Even if I no longer really worry about it much.

Sophie's Stagefright

Yeah, I know this is just a small moment in a single episode, but it annoyed me! Eliot made a bit of a face at Sophie going onstage, but I thought it was just him being annoyed at the general situation. However, they started out with her being awful up there until she realized the poem was relevant to the con - at which point her reading got so much better.

This felt like a complete betrayal of Sophie's beautiful moment at the end of the original show where she got over her trouble with regular acting and played Lady Macbeth beautifully in front of a full theater of audience members. This was part of the con, but only in the sense that it gave her an alibi/place to hide, and I always interpreted it as her genuinely getting over her stagefright problems. It felt like such a beautiful place to end her arc for that show, especially after all her time spent directing.

Now, her difficulty onstage in the Card Game Job was brief and at the very beginning of being up on stage. @rinahale suggested to me that maybe it was a deliberate tactic to draw the guy's attention, and the later skill was simply her shifting focus to make the sonnet easier for Breanna to listen to and interpret, but he seemed more enraptured when she was doing well than otherwise in my opinion and it just doesn't quite sit well with me. My other theory was that maybe she just hasn't been up on stage in a long time, and much like she complaining about being rusty at grifting before the team pushed her into trying, she got nervous for a moment at the very beginning. The problem there is that I think she'd definitely still get involved in theater even when she and Nate were retired. I guess she could've quit after he died, and a year might be long enough to make her doubt herself again, but... still.

I just resent that they even left it ambiguous at all. Sophie's skills should be solid on stage at this point in my opinion.

Thiefsome

...And now we come to my main complaint. This is, by far, the biggest issue I have with the show.

I feel like I should put a disclaimer here that I had my doubts from the beginning about the thiefsome becoming canon onscreen. I thought the famous "the OT3 is safe" tweet could easily just mean that they are all still alive and well, or all still working together, without giving us confirmation of a romantic relationship. Despite this, the general fandom expectations/hopes really got to me, especially with the whole "lock/pick/key" thing. I tried to temper my expectations again when the character descriptions came out and only mentioned Hardison loving Parker, not Eliot, but I still got my hopes up.

The thing is, I was disappointed pretty quickly.

The very first episode told me that in all likelihood we would never see Hardison and Parker and Eliot together in a romantic sense. Oh, there was so much coding. So much hinting. So much in the way of conversations that were about Parker/Hardison's relationship but then Eliot kept getting brought into them. They were portrayed as a unit of three.

But then there was this.

I love all of those scenes of Parker and Hardison being intimate and loving and comfortable with one another and their relationship. I really do. But it didn't escape my notice that there's nothing of the sort with Eliot. If they wanted a canon onscreen thiefsome, it would by far make the most sense to just have it established from the start. But there aren't any scenes where Eliot shares the same kind of physical closeness with either of them like they do each other. Parker and Hardison kiss; he doesn't kiss anyone. They have several clearly romantic conversations when alone; he gets important conversations with both but the sense of it being romantic isn't there.

Establishing Eliot as part of the relationship after Hardison is gone just... doesn't make any sense. It would be more likely to confuse new viewers, to make them wonder if Parker is cheating on Hardison with Eliot, or if they have a Y shaped relationship rather that a triangle. It would be so much clumsier.

Still, up until the Double-Edged-Sword Job I believed the writers might keep it at this level of 'plausible hinting but not quite saying'. There's a lot of great stuff with all of them, and I never expecting making out or whatever anyway; a cheek-kiss was about the height of my hopes to be honest. I mostly just hoped for outright confirmation and, failing that, I was happy enough to have the many hints and implications.

But then Marshal Maria Shipp came along. And I don't really have anything against her as a character - in fact, I think she has interesting story potential and will definitely come back. But the episode framed her fight with Eliot as a sexyfight TM, much like his fight with Mikel back in the day. And then his flirting with her rode the line a little of "he's playing her for the con" and "he's genuinely flirting." The scene where he tells her his real name is particularly iffy, but actually was the one that convinced me he was playing her. Because he seems to be watching her really closely, and to be very concerned about her figuring out who he really is. I am very aware though that I'm doing a lot of work to interpret it the way I want. On surface appearance, Eliot's just flirting with an attractive woman, like he did on the last show. And that's probably the intention, too.

But the real nail in the coffin for me was when Sophie compared herself and Nate to Eliot and Maria. That was a genuine scene, not the continuation of the teasing from before. And Sophie is the one whose insight into people is always, always trustworthy. She is family to the thiefsome. For this to make any sense, either Eliot/Parker/Hardison isn't a thing, or they are and Sophie doesn't know - and I can't imagine why in the hell she wouldn't know.

Any argument to make them still canon leaves me unsatisfied. If she knows and they haven't admitted it to her - why wouldn't they, after all this time? Why would she not have picked up on it even without an outright announcement? Some people suggested they wouldn't admit it because they thought Nate would be weird about it, but that doesn't seem any more in character to me than the other possibilities. In fact, the only option that doesn't go against my understanding of these people and their observational abilities/the close relationship they share.... is that the thiefsome is not a thing.

And furthermore, the implication of this conversation - especially the way it ended, with Eliot stomping off looking embarrassed while Sophie smiled knowingly - is that Eliot will get into another relationship onscreen. Maybe not a full-blown romantic relationship. But the Maria Shipp tension is going to be resolved somehow, and at this point I'm half-expecting a hook-up simply because of Sophie's reaction and how much I trust her judgement of such things. Even if she's letting her grief cloud her usual perceptiveness... it feels iffy.

It just kinda feels like I wasn't even allowed to keep my "interpret these hints/maybe they are" thiefsome that I expected after the first couple episodes convinced me we wouldn't get outright confirmation. (I mean, I will anyway, and I love the hints and allusions regardless.) And while I'm definitely not the kind of fan who is dependent on canon for my ships, and still enjoy all their interactions/will keep right on headcanoning them all in a relationship, it's just.... a bummer.

Feels like a real cop-out. Like the hints of Breanna being queer are enough to meet their quota and they won't try anything 'risky' like a poly relationship. I dunno. It's annoying.

That's the end of the list! Again, overall I love the new show a lot and have few complaints.

#leverage #leverage redemption #leverage spoilers #leverage meta #my meta #this turned into a BIG ol ramble #i planned to write like a couple of sentences for each point but noooo

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prettyblfan · 2 years

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Alright I take it back we don't need to cancel Pat's friends however I still think we need to cancel Pran's friends in particular Wai. Actually this is all about him.

Here's a list of reasons why (probably a lot more but all I could think of):

1. Wai is an emotional manipulator.

Okay I'll admit that I dout he does this intentionally, it's probably something he does unconsciously for what reason idk. But at this point it's a horrible habit that he needs to see and get rid of. Like he completely erases the things that he does wrong from his brain, like its always the other person's fault and never his.

That being said I could really see that he was hurt not because Pran was dating Pat but because he hid it from him. And that is a good sign however, I hate how he uses the title as Pran's best friend and holds it over him. Yes you are his best friend but you put him in a situation where he didn't feel safe enough to tell you.

2. He outed him.

A real best friend doesn't out the other just cause he's mad. Like what??? NO, I'm sorry but as a queer person this is my biggest nightmare I would have cried on the spot. I'm glad tho that Pran handled it soo well, like the character development is god tier. The Pran from the past could never (which is understandable who handles getting outed well)

Where's the remorse cause I don't see it, like look at how content with himself he looks afterwards.

3. His anger issues.

This reinforces point 2; I'm surprised his temper hasn't ruined all of his friendships already. He needs help, he just constantly acts on impulse all the time. This is toxic and unhealthy behaviour. He doesn't know how to talk about his feelings or discuss things civilly, I get it if those were never an option to begin with but to some degree he always had them as choices. Sure he gave Pran the chance to tell him, he asked about it civilly but with the way he behaves I wouldn't tell him either. Like I get just a tiny bit, but I don't get his automatic responses.

4. He knew.

Or atlest had some suspicion, yet he never asked. He saw Pran getting into Pat car, so just confront him with that evidence and ask him, or just wait for him to tell you. Wai why do you do the things that you do, this just makes you the bigger asshole. Like I get you felt shook and betrayed but we don't out people, you literally could have done anything else like ignore him or something but noooooo. Always outing the homosexuals

5. They just don't care

I'm pretty sure I've said this before but Pran's friends don't seem to understand the gravity of their actions at all. Like did they not think about the hard time Pran must have had emotionally after all of that. Cause Pran isn't strong I'm going to say it he puts on a brave face but I know he cried in his dorm alone. As he should cause that shit is bound to hurt, but as usual they only think about themselves. (Wai helping out Pat and Pran at the end of the episode is not enough to redeem him after all the things that he has done)

6. Zero apology.

Pran probably didn't want one, all he wanted was his friends back especially Wai but the fact that at no point did Wai apologise for his actions leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Yes I know we have the next episode for him to do so, but it's like he doesn't see anything wrong with what he did, Pran even apologised for nothing. He did absolutely nothing wrong yet he was the one saying sorry, this burns because I was in this position so many times with my ex-friend and it's so toxic. We get it Wai, Pran never told you but talk to him in private about it.

*************************************************

Anyway this has been my rant, all the shade to Wai.

No but on a less harsh note I get to a very small degree why he does some of the things that he does and that at least most of his feelings are genuine, like he really does see Pran as a friend but he's kinda just a shitty person.

Period.

#bad buddy #bad buddy the series #pat x pran #boys love #patpran

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waffles-for-brunch · 3 years

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This project began as an indirect response to a few negative tweets in the days following the Valentine's Day Destiel wedding. During such time that “certain sources” chose to speak against the impromptu "wedding" and state that the direction of the show never included sexuality or romance. Since this argument has sparked a bit of discourse as to the validity of Dean Winchester and Castiel's relationship and sexualities, I began this edit as an exploration of observations throughout the entire 15 season run of the series. (That's not to say that Sam does not also have his own impactful romances throughout the show -he does have several notable ones- but in his case they are never debated upon or erased.)

There are three complete edits linked below. The differences are explained in their descriptions. (I also recommend downloading for best quality rather than simply watching in the browser, but it’s your choice)

BiDeanEdit: (Click here to download)

Runtime: 18:04:44

File Size: 10.0 GB (10,741,415,805 bytes)

Series long compilation edit (in sequence) of Dean Winchester and Castiel’s relationships and intended expressions of their sexualities (ie interest in both genders). This edit focuses on their relationship as it develops with one another, their other notable relationships (DeanxBenny, CasxMeg, DeanxLisa, etc), and the framework around their sexualities with small scenes of expression (ie Dean in ‘Playthings’ or ‘Everybody Hates Hitler’, or early seasons Dean & his transgressions with women, or Cas in ‘Caged Heat’)

BiDeanMLMEdit: (Click here to download)

Runtime: 14:40:57

File Size: 8.05 GB (8,649,798,685 bytes)

Series long compilation edit (in sequence) of Dean Winchester and Castiel’s relationships and intended expressions of their sexualities. This one is the same as the last but with only MLM content (Otherwise referred to as ‘only the gay parts’). We focus on this more repressed side of their sexuality and see these clues laid out altogether in one fluid edit (these examples are also available in the previous edit, however are just not aligned beside any heterosexual content). DeanxCrowley, DeanxBenny, DeanxLee, DeanxCas, etc.

DestielOnlyEdit: (Click here to download)

Runtime: 13:08:49

File Size: 7.17 GB (7,709,560,696 bytes)

Series long compilation edit (in sequence) of only Destiel related content. The same as the above edit, just simplified even more to only focus on Dean and Cas’ relationship over the years.

Keep reading below to find my full analysis of the complete edit regarding these guys sexualities, relationships, and the parallels we can draw.

To understand why it is that so many queer fans of Supernatural and other similar shows read queerness in characters and their relationships, we should look at the hays code established in 1930. At this time this certain code was established to monitor what was allowed to be depicted outright on film. Within the margins of what was to be stifled, was homosexuality. As such, filmmakers had to plant “queer-coded” seeds into the writing and subtext so that queer audiences watching could interpret these characters and relationships in this manner without the words and actions stating so outright. (At this time homosexuality could be depicted on film as long as said gay character was either a villain, caricature, or met an untimely end- feeding into the blossoming of the kill-your-gays trope. But that’s another topic for a later time.)

As film changed over the years and times became more accepting of lgbt characters portrayals on screen outside of simple coding, this did not make the code obsolete. Queer-coding and queer-baiting are often used in media in present day as a way to pull in viewership. Networks are able to garner the best of both worlds, in a sense. They can draw in heterosexual audiences that may not want to watch queer media, whilst also drawing in queer audiences by coding some characters and relationships just enough to pull those viewers in. This works simply because there is such a lack of queer representation in most media that we’ll take what we can get.

This is where Supernatural comes in. There is a reason that Supernatural and thus “Destiel” is known by some as “The Great American Queerbait.” This twelve years long gay slow-burn between one overly masculine character and his awkward angel best friend did not begin with the intention of romance or baiting, as many of these things generally don’t. However, once fans realized the chemistry between these two particular actors and characters, it became something blatantly written into the show. Sometimes jokingly, other times as legitimate moments of emotional intimacy between two characters. So to say that the show’s direction never included sexuality or romance is, to put it bluntly, bullshit. Just because something is not written in clear and concise wording right in your face, does not mean that it is nonexistent and that the writers did not know what they were writing into the show. (Not even to mention the actual love confession in 15x18, but I digress).

We know very well that queer content has been written subtextually into media for the better part of seventy years. It is a language in media just as much as lighting is a language, just as much as certain camera angles, color design in costumes or set decor, and music design are languages. All of these, outside of the simple words said on screen, make up our media and these characters and our shows. Tv is a world of color, not black and white.

[[ further readings on the above topics: X X X X X ]]

I decided upon this full edit encompassing both the female and male aspects of Dean Winchester and Castiel’s relationships & sexualities because oftentimes when we’re looking into potentially queer characters we tend to focus on the same sex attraction and neglect the opposite sex attraction. Both are very important to acknowledge and compare, if at the very least to view where they may overcompensate, where toxic masculinity may come into play, compulsory heterosexuality, trauma responses, etc. Sometimes what a character doesn’t do is just as important to interpret as what they do do.

For instance, Dean Winchester. If we are to operate under the assumption that he is bisexual, any repression we witness throughout the series as to his male attraction is likely to be a result of his difficult upbringing, similar to most queer identifying people with childhood trauma. His father is a marine, the picture of manliness in which Dean himself blatantly embodies in an effort to impress and make his father proud in any way he can. Dean is already unlikely to seek out activities in any aspect of life of which might make John look at him in a different light (ie, in an every day setting, even simply watching Finding Dory- this is not something S1 Dean would have admitted to liking, but we see Dean in later seasons standing up for himself and his appreciation for it).

Is it perhaps for this reason that we see Dean as an overly blatant and flirty ladies man in season 1 when John is still alive, while this side of him steadily declines as the series continues? It even becomes established in season 3- in light of Dean’s fears surrounding going to Hell, he enters an attitude for coping that Sam recognizes- hypermasculinity, promiscuity, deflection. Heightening the idea that this caricature of himself that he embodies is a mask that he wears in order to cope with something else. He is donning the image he assumes others think he should fit into. Sam calls him out on this through the years, and eventually this becomes something we see in him less and less as he feels more comfortable simply being himself.

If we take into account the time of which this first season is filmed, this is 2005, a time where gay jokes were still funny and an overcompensating character was a joke attached to it. We see Dean built up in these first couple of seasons through this lens of jokes about a hyper-masculine character being mistaken for gay, however instead of this building up the masculinity to encourage a raging heterosexual characterization, this overcompensation is exactly what inadvertently sows the seeds of queer-coding. To queer watchers this reads as a deeply repressed character with childhood trauma who overcompensates when faced with observations of gayness and uses hypermasculinity to counteract these accusations.

It is through circumstances such as “Bugs” in S1 or “Playthings” in S2 that we first see these ‘jokes.’ The brothers are mistaken as a gay couple. Dean being the more “masculine’ of the two characters has a blatant reaction to these situations (Overcompensating), and Sam’s lack of a reaction is what solidifies his own straightness all the more. Neither brother is homophobic (this becomes established as time goes on) so why would either have a problem with this mistake? Sam wouldn’t care because he’s clearly not gay- in fact, he usually just laughs it off. Dean would care because he wonders what about him looks gay? Do other people see it too? Do they know? What’s wrong with him?

We also see another blatant example of this type of freakout in season 8. “Everybody Hates Hitler.”

(Images: “Playthings” S2xE11)

(Image below: S8 “Everybody Hates Hilter”)

We frame these situations in early seasons around girl of the week scenarios and brief bar flirtations. Have to make it clear that our manly straight character looks as manly and straight as possible. Dean is also in his 20s, he’s more carefree/not as traumatized yet, and he is a sexual man so he does sleep around quite a bit. What is notable, however, is how much this drops off in later seasons. As time goes on Dean seeks out less and less the fleeting encounters of one night stands, in favor of genuine connections- even if he himself frequently doubts his own ability to ever have a settle-down type of relationship or life. Lisa is the only long-term female romantic relationship Dean ever has throughout the series run, and this tentatively begins in season 5 and ends in season 6.

Dean and Lisa’s relationship is founded more in a dream of something that Dean wants to be rather than who he actually is. Although he loves her, their bond is made through trauma and their relationship overall is reminiscent of a soldier who returned home from war with heavy PTSD and begins to burden the family that he will come to realize he doesn’t quite fit within anymore.

Outside of this, his closest relationships from thereon out are between Benny, and Castiel.

Let’s start with Benny. Throughout season 8 Benny is framed as an ex and his relationship with Dean directly parallels Sam and Amelia’s. Both brothers must confront their relationships with their ‘significant others’ and decide whether to cut them off or proceed. Both brothers found these people under circumstances in which they did not get along with them at first but were pushed together. Another person comes in the middle of their relationship (Amelia’s husband for Sam, or Cas/Sam for Benny). The brothers each resent the other’s significant other or the circumstances surrounding the relationship. Sam hates Benny because he is a vampire and Sam does not understand why Dean continually trusts him (which is a circumstance inherently queer-coded in itself for comparability to an unaccepting family). Dean does not care for Amelia simply for the fact that Sam chose her over looking for him in purgatory.

Other instances we see parallels between Sam’s romances and Dean’s:

“Sex and Violence” S4 siren: Nick(Siren)/Dean parallel to Sam/Dr Lady

Season 4: Ruby/Sam and Cas/Dean teamup parallels

S1 Dean pulling Sam from the fire away from Jess vs S12 Sam pulling Dean away from Cas who may die approaching Lucifer to fight

Season 8: Dean/Benny vs Sam/Amelia. Dean and Benny, since they’re essentially going through a breakup, are directly paralleled to Sam and Amelia and their breakup. See “Larp and the Real Girl” for Charlie and Dean’s conversation about Sam’s recent breakup and Charlie picking up on the fact that Dean might also be going through one.

1x05 vs 8x07: Sam seeing Jessica on the sidewalk as they drive down the street vs Dean seeing Cas on the side of the road as he drives down the street

S11: Perhaps this one can be interpreted loosely and not necessarily romantic (esp on Sam’s end), but “O’ Brother Where Art Thou” both brothers are drawn to forces they actively fight against being drawn to. SamxLucifer and DeanxAmara.

S11: “Beyond the Mat” not a relationship but with crushes/infatuations. Dean with Gunner Lawless and Sam with Rio.

S15: Cas telling Dean that “We Are” real. vs Eileen being unsure what’s real and Sam kissing her and saying “I know that was real.”

S15: “The Trap” Dean loses all hope following the death of their friends and primarily Cas. Sam loses hope after Eileen’s death. Directly paralleled in the episode. (We also see Sam lose Eileen in 15x18, where Dean also loses Cas)

Additional parallels between Dean/Cas with anyone else:

Season 9/10: Cain/Colette vs Dean/Cas. “She only asked for one thing. To stop.” vs Cas asking Dean to “Stop”. Both circumstances referring to the Mark of Cain.

S12 “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” Lily (human)/Isham (angel) vs Dean (human)/ Cas (angel)

Led Zeppelin: This music means something within John/Mary’s relationship, which Dean directly acknowledges in 12x01 with Mary. We find out Dean has gifted Cas a mixtape of his “Top 13 Zepp Traxx” in 12x19. (the implications of Dean having made a mixtape for Cas, being its own point in a different discussion)

When Lucifer contacts a person to try and get them to open up to him, he uses their dead lover as a ploy. SamxJess, NickxSarah, VincexJen, DeanxCas - 15x19 when Lucifer calls Dean using Cas’ voice.

The parallels of unreciprocated love/infatuation. DeanxCrowley and CasxHannah. Dean likes Crowley but clearly not the way that Crowley likes Dean. Cas likes Hannah like a friend or sister, but she keeps putting the moves on him for awhile and he appears deeply uncomfortable and has to shoot her down more than once.

Parallels between Dean’s own relationships:

Dean in “Let it Bleed” torturing demons to find the location of Lisa and Ben vs Dean in Purgatory torturing monsters to find the location of Cas “The angel”

“The Rapture” opens in Dean’s dream which Cas visits and says he’s in trouble and gives Dean an address to go to immediately. “The Song Remains The Same” opens in Dean’s dream which Anna visits and says she’s in trouble and gives Dean an address to go to immediately.

S6 Dean dodging calls from Lisa vs S12 Dean dodging Cas at the beginning of “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” (notable also how Sam treats both circumstances the same)

S11: “Into the Mystic” 11x11 Mildred tells Dean the key to living a long and happy life is to follow your heart. Later in the season “All in the Family” 11x21 When Casifer is still captured by Amara, she puts her hand to Cas’ heart and is able to connect with Dean to contact him. Hinting at the link between Cas and Dean’s “hearts.”

Not necessarily a parallel but an observation. 7x01 when Cas is loaded up on God juice, and Dean has given up but Sam hasn’t and wants to talk to ‘the guy’, Dean says, “He’s not a guy, he’s God.” But in 11x18 Dean refuses to give up on Cas and let him continue to be possessed. Sam keeps speaking about Cas like he’s just a vessel and Dean says, “It? It’s not an it, Sam. It’s Cas.” Mostly this shows the development of their relationship and Dean’s willingness to continue to fight for him.

Dean’s dream world with Pamela in S14, she says to Dean “How come you only want what you can’t have?” and in S15 during Cas’ confession scene he says to Dean, “The one thing I want, is something I know I can’t have.”

Before we delve into Dean and Castiel specifically, let’s explore a few more things regarding Dean.

Let’s start with Cassie. This is Dean’s first romantic relationship we see on the show, and is arguably his first love. What is notable about her is her characterization and Dean in relation to her. We haven’t seen him in a relationship before, and thus this is the baseline to which we can draw how he is in this type of vulnerable state.

We see here that he is drawn to strong individuals. Cassie is a very strong willed character and can hold her own. She has a boldness about her. Dean appreciates that. We see similar in his next framed love interest: Jo Harvelle. Jo is another strong character, and though Dean sees her more as someone he needs to protect because she doesn’t have as much experience under her belt, he respects her intellect and strong will all the same. They connect through a love for hunting and mutual daddy issues. Personally, this is a relationship I view more as a little sister dynamic in a similar vein to Dean and Charlie, however this pairing is still worth noting because as it was written it was intended to potentially flourish into a romantic relationship. This did not pan out, though the seeds are still there.

Next up is Anna. Again daddy issues are a solid connection these two hold, and while this relationship is more of a one-night-stand than anything else, there are still important points to be taken from this encounter. The first is just how much Dean cares. We don’t see very many sex scenes with Dean throughout the series, but of the ones we do see, it is apparent that he is a gentle and tender man. He cares. About even a single night with a woman. (Cassie, Anna, Lydia ’The Slice Girls”) This is a contrast to Dean’s general persona of the masculine straight promiscuous lady’s man. He has all the bravado of a man who ‘loves em and leaves em’, but in reality that is not who he is. This is another example of the faces Dean wears in front of certain people (and what he thinks they expect of him), and the person he is once he lets that mask fall.

It may be important to note as well that Anna, (it is rumored) was originally meant to be more to Dean than this simple one night stand and connection. She was intended to become a romantic interest but, as it turned out, Dean and Cas had more chemistry so the arc that Anna was meant to follow was instead given to Castiel.

It is another year until the apocalypse comes along, Sam dies, and Dean falls back into Lisa’s lap. While Lisa is another strong-willed woman who rolls with the punches, her lifestyle deviates from Dean’s usual romantic interests simply because of her offering of a normal life outside of everything he’s usually known. A life with her is dipping his toe into a life he could have had if he didn’t hold the weight of the world on his shoulders and hunt the things that go bump in the night.

This is Dean’s last “official” relationship of the series. After putting Lisa and Ben in danger by being someone that he cares about, Dean accepts that he’s simply not a guy that can have a normal life or a normal family. He cares about people and they get hurt. This is a weight he holds on his shoulders for the remainder of the show. He loves someone, or more accurately, they love him, and they’ll get hurt. End of story. It doesn’t help that immediately following this, Castiel “dies” too.

Maybe it’s Lisa, maybe it’s Cas. Maybe it’s a combination of the two at this point in time, but Dean is never again the same when it comes to relationships after these events at the end of season 6. He becomes more cautious, tries to keep people an arm’s length away, and we even begin to see less and less promiscuity and flirting with miscellaneous women from this point on.

Let’s talk about Castiel.

Although Dean has had various queer-coded moments throughout the beginning of the series and up to Castiel’s entrance in season 4, his minimal relationships up to this point have all been with women. Simply exploring the evolution of this relationship from Dean’s side of the picture, Dean doesn’t start to truly warm up to Castiel until perhaps the end of season 4. He begins the season unsure of the angel, perhaps even a bit afraid of him, before the two garner a sort of mutual respect as Dean begins to see that there’s more to him than simply an agent of heaven.

They’re friends in season 5. The quirky, strange angel that doesn’t understand social cues, stands too close, stares too much, and says things like “we’re making it up as we go” and “tonight you’re my little bitch.” He’s a far cry from the ethereal entity that showed up in Bobby’s kitchen just a year ago and threatened to toss Dean back into Hell. What really turns the curve, however, is “The End.”

5 years in the future in the midst of an apocalyptic war, Cas is still around. He’s human and he’s stuck by Dean’s side through it all, even though this Dean is just a shadow of his former self. Then again, so is this Cas. But still, they stuck together. Dean isn’t used to that. He has very few people that have stuck by him for this many years. Could probably count them all on one hand at this point. Bobby and Sam at the top of the list. Everyone else either dies or leaves. And in this future, Bobby and Sam are dead, but Cas is still there.

Dean has abandonment issues. His mother died when he was four, his dad was in and out emotionally and physically his entire upbringing, Sam left for Stanford the first chance he got. He’s got strings of dead friends and lost relationships surely in tow for years at this point, and half the time Dean has become accustomed to pushing people away before they have a chance to push him away first. (Ie Cassie, Lisa, often even Sam too at times). Cas won’t make these issues any better during their run together, but up to this point Cas hasn’t let him down. The simple fact that in this one future universe Cas had stuck by him, I’m sure that makes a big difference to Dean and actually may be imperative for their relationship going forward and the trust that forms between them.

Something that becomes a large part of their relationship is Cas and Dean’s ability to have conversations with just their eyes. This is a shorthand that Dean is known to have with Sam on occasion, especially during times of combat. It takes a certain amount of intimacy and knowledge of the other person to be able to have a shorthand like this. The first instance we see this between them is quite possibly “It’s the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester,” when Dean convinces Cas that they can save the town. We see it again in the ‘beautiful room’ when Cas slams Dean up against the wall and Dean seems to understand what’s happening. Another instance, “The Song Remains the Same.” In a way, it’s a locking of eyes that just seems to say “trust me,” and they do.

Sam wonders if Anna may be right. If killing him and scattering the pieces will stop this whole Lucifer vessel business. Sam asks Cas, Cas looks to Dean, they share a look, and Cas shuts Sam down. In all likelihood that plan could have worked, but Cas wouldn’t do that Dean. He wouldn’t do it to Sam either but at this point he’ll do anything at all for Dean.

If we take a moment to consider Dean and Cas’ relationship here, it is unlike any of Dean’s previous ones. Dean never has this same kind of shorthand with any of his other relationships, save for possibly Benny to a certain extent. Cas is an odd guy, and Dean frequently describes him as such, but he finds it endearing (if “Free to be You and Me” is any indication this early in their relationship). The previous women in his life all had the same thing in common, that they’re strong willed, brave, and don’t put up with Dean’s shit when he’s being a shit. Cas does fit all this criteria, but he’s also someone that Dean has a hard time reading. Cas is so literal sometimes that Dean can’t tell what’s literal, what’s deadpan, and what’s just Cas’ personality as an angel. But at the end of the day, simply put, he likes him and he trusts him. Getting Dean Winchester’s full trust as quickly as Cas gets it is an anomaly all on its own.

Dean’s female relationships are fairly surface level. They’re easy and fairly uncomplicated. Boy likes girl, girl likes boy. Girl gets mad at boy, relationship ends. Easy. Expected. His relationship with Cas isn’t easy. But the big endgame relationships seldom are. There’s blood, loss of trust, rebuilding, and there’s a pull that at the end of the day always brings them back to one another no matter how incredibly messy things get.

And boy do things get messy. If we touch back into the end of season 6 where things end with Lisa and blow up with Cas, Dean is at an all time low in the relationship department.

Dean takes Cas’ betrayal hard. Breakups are one thing. Leaving Lisa was expected. It was bound to happen eventually. Dean always knew that somewhere inside. He mourns leaving them, but knows it’s for the best. But with Cas’ betrayal at working with Crowley, he’s devastated all over again.

Dean never expects his relationships to last forever, but again there’s a choice few people in his life he lets take up space on the list of those who might stick around. Bobby, Sam, Cas. I don’t think Lisa was ever on this list, as much as Dean wishes he could tell himself she and Ben were. But they weren’t. That relationship was a ticking time bomb. And when they nearly die because of his life and the creatures surrounding him every day, that’s the end of it.

Fast forward, season 7 is a time of mourning. He’s lost Lisa and Ben, he gets Cas back for all of 30 minutes before losing him all over again and never being able to repair that relationship. But he keeps the trenchcoat. Fishes it out of the lake, bundles it up, and keeps it in the back of every single car that he and Sam drive that year.

Dean doesn’t keep mementos. Not of Cassie, not of Jo, Not of Anna, or even Lisa and Ben. No pictures, no items, just memories. You know what he does keep? He keeps his dad’s leather jacket, Bobby’s flask, pictures of he and Sam and his mom. Is keeping the trenchcoat in the back of the car for a year similar to those familial keepsakes? Maybe. But it’s also more than that. It’s covered in blood and lake water, and I’m sure Dean would explain it away that Cas was family and that’s why he kept the coat. Probably even believes that too.

Then we have purgatory.

Dean prays to Cas every night. He could get out of that place just on his own, but he stays there for months in full combat just to look for the angel and get him out with him.

“First we find the angel”

“Cas, we’re gettin’ out of here. We’re going home.”

“Cas, buddy, I need you.”

“Let me bottom line it for you. I’m not leaving here without you. Understand?”

“Cas, we’re gonna shove your ass back through the eye of that needle if it kills all three of us.”

“It’s gonna work. Nobody gets left behind.”

When we meet Benny, Dean’s only other primary male pairing of consequence, he is not trusted. This team-up is one of strategy and a mutual goal only- at least at first. Dean and Benny fight well side by side, but the trust only runs so far. That is, until during one particular fight with leviathans in which Cas nearly bites it, Benny saves the angel’s life. This is the main turning point for Dean’s entire trust in Benny from here on out.

“Benny has never let me down.” Dean says later to Sam. And he never did. He saved Cas, got Dean out of purgatory, and then later on he gets himself sent back to purgatory just so he can help Dean’s brother get out of there.

Dean and Benny’s relationship was “pure” in purgatory. They didn’t have to worry as much about the fact that Benny was a vampire and Dean was a hunter, they were just brothers in arms who earned one another’s trust, respect and love. There’s no way you let a man kill you and send you to purgatory to save his brother if you don’t love him.

Their relationship once they broke out of purgatory is where things began to sour, not because of anything either of them did to the other, but more the space they let grow. Regular Earth was different from purgatory and these men had to go back to their roles and say sayonara. “What happened in purgatory stayed in purgatory” and all that. Benny was a vampire and Dean was a hunter. That kind of thing mattered here despite the fact that they did care for one another.

Dean and Benny’s tumultuous relationship in relation to the people in Dean’s life could be reminiscent of a queer experience in itself. A lack of acceptance from Sam, Bobby, Martin- Dean’s family. Not because of who Benny was, but what he was. Pair this with the already established fact that Amelia and Sam were a direct parallel to Dean and Benny, Season 8 has been one of the most blatantly queer-coded seasons as of yet.

Which brings us to “Goodbye Stranger.” It is established early on this season that Dean feels that there’s something wrong with Cas, something off about him. The fact that they don’t know how he popped out of purgatory is just one part of it. It’s in the way he acts, how spacey he is, the fact that he doesn’t answer Dean’s prayers. “I always come when you call.” Cas once said. And he did. Until now.

This is another aspect of their relationship which is simply there and not spoken about much- similar to their staring and eye communication thing they do. Dean started their relationship unable to read all of Cas’ quirks very well and unsure of the guy. Now, he’s fluent in the language of Cas. He knows by tone of voice, by shiftiness, by his expressions- when something is up. Maybe he started paying more attention after the whole Rafael situation until he could read Cas like the back of his hand, or maybe he just started paying attention just to pay attention.

He’s known something is wrong for months while Cas has been under Naomi’s control. Just the same as years later, he knows something is up when Lucifer is taking a ride in Cas’ body. And he knows in 12x15 just by the way Cas speaks on the phone that something is off with him.

They come upon the angel tablet in the crypt, and Dean does fight back when Cas starts in on him, but he spends even more energy trying to get Cas to come back to him and fight whatever force has him under control. He never once stopped to think that this was just Cas. “This isn’t you! Fight this!” Dean would repeat over and over as Cas beats him nearly to death.

There was a moment he certainly thought that Cas would kill him, and it seemed like he was more bothered by the fact that it was Cas that would do it more so than the thought of dying.

Cas breaks through the mind control, heals Dean. Then he leaves. So, again, Cas leaves. He keeps doing that to Dean. I stated before that Dean’s abandonment issues come into play in this relationship, but unlike at the beginning where Dean saw a future that Cas stays in, this Cas keeps coming and going. This makes it difficult for Dean to trust him fully, to rely on him. But the fact of the matter is that he does still trust him completely, and that’s what bothers Dean.

When Cas does come back again, collapsed and bloody in the middle of the street, Dean puts up a wall. He’s hurt and he’s tired. He doesn’t want to trust him as much as he does and he definitely doesn’t want him to keep coming and going without a thought. (What’s interesting to note here, though, is Dean’s change in character as this occurs through the years. Because while here he may simply give Cas the cold shoulder and not talk much about his hurt in this situation, we see later on in 12x19 after Dean has been fretting for days about where Cas has gone off to, and Cas finally does return, he voices his side of things. “With everything that’s going on, you can’t just go dark like that. We didn’t know what happened to you. We were worried, that’s not okay.”)

Naomi hits the nail on the head when she visits Dean after Castiel disappears and she notices Dean still hasn’t warded the boat against angels. It is moments like these that we realize just how much everyone else around these two also notice their chemistry and their deep devotion to one another, always seeming to fall back to one another.

“I think you have me confused with the other angel. You know, the one in the dirty trenchcoat who’s in love with you.” - Balthazar S6

“The stench of that impala is all over your overcoat, angel.” - Crowley S6

“Castiel? Oh, he’s not here. See, he has this weakness. He likes you.” -Uriel S4

(to Dean) “Go ask him, he was your boyfriend first.” - Meg S7

“I have tiptoed through all your little tulips. Your memories, your little feelings, yes. I know what you hate. I know who you love, what you fear.” - The Empty S13

“And then after a rousing speech, his true weakness is revealed. He’s in love... with humanity.” - Metatron S9

“I’m sorry, did you just say that you lost a Winchester? Because, one, that’s... interesting. And, two, how is it that you lost Dean? I thought the two of you were joined at the... you know, everything.” - Kipling S14

“And for what again? Oh, that’s right, to save Dean Winchester. That was your goal, right? I mean, you drape yourself in the flag of heaven, but ultimately, it was about saving one human, right? Well, guess what? He’s dead, too.” - Metatron S9

“Don’t lose it all over one man.” - Hannah S9

“The very touch of you corrupts. When Castiel first laid a hand on you in Hell he was lost!” - Hester S7

“Oh, sweet. Almost anything. Castiel? He’s dead. All the way dead. Because of you.” - Miriam S13

“And then you’d kill the angel, Castiel. Now that one, that I suspect would hurt something awful.” - Cain S10

“He should know this- Lucifer, his favorite, isn’t doing so well. Say nothing of the vessel, your friend Castiel.” - Amara S11

“I’m gonna cure you of your human weakness, the same way I cured my own. By cutting it out.” - Isham S12

Bonus: Dean to Sam about Garth’s baby Castiel- Dean: “This Cas keeps looking at me weird.” Sam: “So kinda like the real Cas.”

It is time and again that opposing forces recognize the relationship between Dean and Castiel, and it’s commented on and used against them frequently.

As we move forward to the angels falling and human Castiel, this season opens up with dean in the hospital with a very ill Sam. The first thing he does before contacting anyone else is pray to Castiel. There’s a moment in 9x03 where Castiel walks into a church and speaks with a woman there. He expresses his lack of faith and she says, “I guess that’s why we pray. You need something stronger than yourself.” Dean never prayed until he started praying to Cas. He prayed to Cas during the apocalypse, in purgatory, when Sam was sick during the trials, now in this hospital. Dean might not have faith in God, but he does in Cas.

Castiel is human, and while Dean tears apart the grid trying to find him while angels are on Cas’ ass, he still watches him die, then has to kick him from the safety of the bunker the very same day. Up until this point, Cas has been a genuine part of their family regardless of their squabbles over the past months, but kicking him from the bunker damages that. Once the reasoning comes to light, however, Cas is forgiving immediately. He’d forgiven Dean even before that. That’s one thing about Cas that Dean never seems to get over either. Dean can get angry and take things out on him, kick him from the bunker, make stupid decisions and nearly kill himself, holler at him, blame him, but Cas comes back every time. He forgives him every time. It’s already overwhelming when Sam does this, but the ease at which Castiel consistently forgives Dean is a lot.

Dean gets the Mark of Cain. It’s a means to an end, he says. When he becomes a demon as a result, this is when his relationship with Crowley is deepened. This relationship is an interesting one because it’s essentially an unrequited example. Dean likes Crowley, and when he’s a demon he has a good time, but Crowley’s feelings appear to go much deeper- even if he tries not to show it.

It is very possible that Dean and Crowley’s relationship is a formation more as a result of a joke than anything else- where the writers are concerned. But whether that was the intention or not, this is a relationship that continues to affect Crowley’s actions towards Dean for the rest of the series. He doesn’t let Dean kill innocents as he’s a demon, he saves Castiel from certain death as his grace drains, he gives Sam the information to find Dean so he can be cured, and he aids in getting the mark removed from Dean even as Sam attempts to kill him in the process. In return, Dean gives Crowley the benefit of the doubt more often, and they share a sort of mutual respect. What differs here, however, from Dean’s relationships with Benny or Castiel, is Dean’s actions. It is clear that Dean doesn’t feel as deeply as Crowley does, so this is an interesting relationship to compare side by side with the others.

Not only this, but DeanxCrowley in these first few episodes can be seen as a parallel with CasxHannah. Two unreciprocated relationships which do not last long in this particular phase, but do result in a friendship within these pairings as time goes on.

Still with the Mark of Cain, Dean and Cain have a few things in common. Cain had said that his wife, Colette, before she died had asked him to stop. Stop the killing. It’s several months after that that Dean is going off the rails and Cas, behind Dean as he’s walking away, asks Dean to stop. He nearly kills Cas then, almost fulfilling Cain’s words just weeks earlier: “And then you’ll kill the angel, Castiel. And that, I suspect, would hurt something awful.” This is a direct romantic parallel written into the show.

When the darkness is released, Amara and Dean are immediately drawn to one another through some sort of connection as a remnant of the mark. This relationship is another interesting one, because it ties in to true desire and consent. Dean is drawn to her, yes, and she is sold as a sort of potential love interest this season, but Dean himself doesn’t want anything to do with her. He’s hypnotized when he’s around her, but as soon as he’s away this energy dissipates.

So in light of this storyline let’s talk about consent and the sexualization of Dean Winchester for a second, shall we?

Dean is an often highly sexualized individual. He plays along more in his younger days, but the older he gets the more frustrated he becomes with the whole situation. I’m sure there are more but here are some tentative examples (This is also something that happens to Sam a decent amount as well.):

Wendy at the psych ward in “Sam, Interrupted” kisses Dean

Pamela touching Dean’s inner thigh in “Lazarus Rising”

Ezra in “Time After Time” kisses Dean without consent

Gets turned into a vampire because he’s “pretty”

Pamela in “Dark Side of the Moon” kisses Dean

Almost becomes a vessel for Sandy’s mate in “The Thing” because she “enjoys looking at his face”

Amara kisses Dean in “O’ Brother Where Art Thou”

Mildred gropes Dean’s leg in “Into the Mystic” and continually makes advances even tho he’s uncomfortable.

Random girl slaps Dean’s ass in “The Last Call”

Ellie in S8 wants to sleep with Dean and even kisses him randomly

Meg kisses Dean as he’s being held against his will in “Sympathy for the Devil”

Granted, there aren’t a plethora of examples, but it’s still a lot and it is interesting to see how often Dean has been sexualized for someone else’s pleasure. It is bound to work into his characterization as well, and his sense of self-worth. He’s often described as the pretty one of the brothers, and seeing as he is the more promiscuous of the two, it is assumed that he welcomes all of or most of the attention that comes his way.

It is for this reason in particular that the situation with Amara is bothersome to me. Not only is Dean taken advantage of physically, but his mind is essentially hypnotized whenever she is near, not giving him total control over his actions or desires. Amara is in part meant to be sold as a romantic interest, but throughout the season Dean continually expresses his discontent. He’s even ashamed to admit these feelings to Sam and Cas, even though he knows it isn’t his fault he still feels responsible. (Which, if we think about it, this is could be a queer allegory too. The lack of choice, feeling shame, etc.)

What is notable, however, is the day that they attempt to capture Lucifer and speak to Cas to get him to expel Lucifer from his body. Amara makes a surprise appearance and captures Lucifer/Cas herself. Dean yells to Cas. This catches Amara’s attention and appears to confuse her, and even Lucifer, seeing as when Dean is around her he’s meant to have eyes for just her because of their “bond”. His link to Castiel appears to be stronger, however.

Amara uses this connection between Cas and Dean when she wishes to contact Dean, simply by placing her hand over Castiel’s heart. She says to Dean, “If you should cross paths, if (god) should reach out to you, he should know this - Lucifer, his favorite, isn’t doing so well. Say nothing of the vessel, your friend Castiel.”

If we backtrack a moment, Dean finding out that Castiel is possessed in the first place is a very emotional time for Dean. He doesn’t want to accept that Cas would make such a decision, put himself in that kind of danger, and choose to leave once again. Sam, the arguably more rational thinker at this current time, tries to rationalize that Cas may not come back willingly since he chose to let Lucifer in. “Not possible.” Dean says. It’s simply not possible that Cas doesn’t want to come back to them. It’s not something he can accept.

The next several episodes are begun with Dean either losing sleep trying to figure out what to do about Cas, or simply moping about. Sam has to comfort him each time. This is notable behavior as well, because Dean isn’t often one to wear his heart on his sleeve this frequently. Certainly he has his moments, but much of the time when he’s distressed he simply buries it all down and puts up a front. He doesn’t do that here. In fact, once they do begin to put together a plan with Crowley, Sam thinks they should still utilize Lucifer in the fight against Amara but thinks it’s foolish to move him into a new vessel.

((I actually counted up the mopey Dean scenes- between finding out Cas is possessed, to getting Cas back.))

There are four convos with Sam (multiple episodes) where Sam has to comfort Dean and say something along the lines of “we’ll get him back.” (Just as an aside, I don’t think there has ever been a scene in the series where Dean comforted Sam about Cas, it’s always Sam having to comfort a freaking out Dean)

Then, of course, there’s the scene where Dean comforts a victim and she says “I watched the man I love die. There’s no normal after that.”

There’s the “It’s not an ‘it,’ Sam. It’s Cas.” scene.

There’s Dean trying to get through to Cas when they capture Lucifer.

There’s the Dean yelling “Cas?” to Casifer when Amara is in the room.

There’s two more scenes where Sam comforts Dean again.

There’s “The Chitters” episode with the gay hunter couple. (This isn’t a direct relation, but more of an honorable mention because it seems abstractly relevant)

Amara connecting to Dean through Cas’ heart.

Dean freaking out about making it to Cas in time and again talking to Sam about it.

Dean asking “what about Cas?” as they’re planning the attack with God against Amara.

Someone has said once that you can tell that Dean is in love with Cas because Sam isn’t. It’s in moments like this that this becomes readily apparent. Yes, Sam cares about Cas, of course. But it’s just different than the way that Dean cares about Cas. When Dean cares about certain people, this love weaves into the very fabric of his being and he just feels it so completely and overwhelmingly, he can’t simply not fight for it.

“Dean, it’s a strong vessel, it’s held Cas for years, and we know what he’s been through.” Sam says.

“It? It’s not an ‘it,’ Sam. It’s Cas.”

Dean appears almost shocked that these words would pass through Sam’s mouth. He’s confused that Sam wouldn’t fight for Cas just as much as Dean would. The type of love they each have for the angel is just different. Visually, action-wise, reaction-wise. This conversation in “Hell’s Angel” highlights that.

You know what else highlights it? The fact that when they do trap Lucifer, it’s only Dean who gets through to Cas and talks to him to get him to come back and expel Lucifer. It’s Cas only seeking Dean’s forgiveness in S7 when putting the souls back in Purgatory. It’s Dean in S6 being the only one to defend Cas in “The Man Who Would Be King.” It’s Dean later in that same episode being the one to get through to Cas in the circle of holy fire. It’s “I did it, all of it, for you.” It’s Dean carrying around that trenchcoat for a year and mourning when Sam doesn’t. It’s Bobby checking in on Dean mourning Cas, but doesn’t check in with Sam about it. It’s Sam pulling Dean out of the apocalypse world in season 12 as Dean screams for Cas and physically fights against Sam to get to Cas. It’s Sam seeing Cas dead on the ground minutes later, but still able to walk away while Dean is frozen in place, frozen in shock. It’s Dean being the only one to wrap up Cas’ dead body. It’s Sam always having to reassure Dean that Cas is probably fine, whenever he goes missing for a little while. It’s Dean hardly able to function in S13 with this encompassing grief over Cas’ death and yelling “It got him dead! Now you might be able to forget about that, but I can’t.” It’s S15 when Rowena tells Dean and Cas to fix their quarrel before it’s too late, and later Dean in purgatory not sure of it is too late as he’s praying for Cas to be okay and crying against a tree.

Sam’s reactions are important to take into account. Sam cares, yes, but Cas isn’t as wholly encompassing in his life as he is in Dean’s. If anything else is to prove that, it’s the way that Dean grieves (I mean, if you were to put Sam in Dean’s place in 15x09 in Purgatory and their fight, there’s no way that Sam would react this extremely).

There are three different points to highlight Dean’s grief. The first is season 7 with the trenchcoat, which we’ve already talked about. The second is when Cas is possessed by Lucifer, which we have covered as well. The most damning, however, is Dean’s season 13 grief arc following Cas’ death. Dean also loses his mother during this time and a few other friends, but considering how he reacts when Cas comes back, a great amount of this grief has to do with Cas. Dean completely loses hope and faith in anything at all during this time. He hates Jack for giving Cas false hope and getting him killed. He doesn’t believe in their mission anymore. He doesn’t believe anything matters at all. “Right now, I don’t believe in a damn thing.” Dean admits to Sam. When Cas comes back from the dead, however, he pulls a complete 180. He has hope again. He has faith. And all of it begins with Cas.

Lastly, Dean never hooks up with anyone again after Castiel’s final resurrection. We can go through an outline of the steady decline of Dean’s hookups and relations outside of Cas as the decade goes, but during this three year window specifically, Dean’s only pairing is Cas. Sure, he might flirt with someone every now and again, but this never goes anywhere. (Arguably the person he flirts with the most in any episode in these final three seasons is Daphne, but idk if that even counts much considering she is a cartoon.) And as Pamela says once in Rocky’s bar: “Besides, you don’t want me. You just like to flirt. I’m psychic so I kinda know.” And that was just in Dean’s head anyways so it’s probably even more true than had Pamela actually said it herself.

When Jack comes in the picture in season 13, and Castiel comes back from the dead, this makeshift little family is formed. All three men act as father figures to this half-angel kid at different capacities, and amongst this dynamic another is formed a bit further between Dean and Cas. They’ve already been acting a bit as an old married couple in recent years (Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets, anyone?) but this co-parenting scenario they’ve found themselves in has solidified this dynamic all the more as they collaborate on the issues that arise with Jack. In “Lebanon” when John Winchester comes back for a brief period, John even says to Dean that he’d hoped he would get a family someday and get out of hunting and such. Dean replies, “I have a family.” Sam, Cas, and Jack are his family. Cas has been family for a long time, but here and now Dean just isn’t looking for anything else or anything normal. He’s happy with himself and the people he’s surrounded by. He’s not looking for anything else or anyone else.

For a change of perspective, let’s check out Castiel’s relationships over the years.

Unlike Dean, Castiel’s queerness and interest in Dean has been officially canonized. We can speculate all we want on the legitimacy of Dean’s love for Cas, but we can speak in certainties about Castiel. Castiel is in love with Dean Winchester. Speculation can come in when we consider, just how long has this love existed for him? Let’s start from the beginning.

Right off the bat when we meet Castiel, he’s a semi-emotionless soldier of heaven who works under strict orders and doesn’t have much free-will. Dean begins to change this. We can see even in their first couple encounters that Castiel is interested in Dean- in what he has to say, intrigue in the fact that Dean talks back to the angels (despite that these angels are unkillable beings and could smite him on the spot), the fact that he’s snarky and brave and questions everything. Where Uriel finds Dean annoying and blasphemous, Castiel finds the back-talk fascinating. Dean’s words impact Cas, and it’s not long before he starts to have doubts about Heaven. Following these orders blindly and unquestioningly starts to seem foolish when Dean puts things in a different perspective.

Even after Cas undergoes what some have funnily dubbed “conversion therapy” in “The Rapture” (when Cas had finally decided on going against Heaven and to help Dean stop the apocalypse) it’s still not enough to stop him completely. A bit more time with Dean and he’s convinced yet again to help this one human man stop the apocalypse with his brother. He even dies for him and this new mission of his.

Castiel throughout this first season is interesting because we see firsthand his struggle to understand beginning to feel emotions and accept thinking for himself. “For the first time, I feel...” He says to Anna. He wants her to tell him what to do. He wants orders because that’s all he knows, and he doesn’t understand why suddenly he cares. It hurts him to send Dean in to torture Alastair. It hurts him even later when in the beautiful room Dean dismisses him with a “What do you care, you’re already dead. We’re done.”

It’s possible that in these first several months, or even these first couple seasons, that Castiel follows Dean around and does as he asks because he’s allotted Dean as the new being he serves. Because serving is what he knows. But it’s also through this that he begins caring more and more. He learns more how to express certain emotions, he learns more about humanity, he learns more about what is important in life and what is worth fighting for. As Cas will admit himself 12 years later, “Ever since we met, ever since I pulled you out of Hell... Knowing you has changed me. Because you cared, I cared. I cared about you. I cared about Sam. I cared about Jack... I cared about the whole world because of you.”

We start to see sprinkles of this especially throughout season 5 as Cas begins to come to terms with caring and adopting Dean’s mindset to care. Consider Sam for a moment. He and Cas don’t necessarily get along a lot and mostly just tolerate one another in these early days. However, as we see in “Abandon All Hope” when Castiel is captured by Lucifer, Cas gets visually upset at the concept of Lucifer taking Sam as his vessel. “You are not taking Sam Winchester. I won’t let you.”

Sam and Cas don’t have much of a relationship at this point, but Cas cares because Dean does. In “The Song Remains the Same” not long later, he even refers to Sam as his friend.

By the time S6 rolls around Castiel is in the midst of a civil war in heaven entirely because he has adopted the Winchester’s all encompassing mindset on the importance of free-will. Castiel is making his own choices, and he does everything he can to protect the Winchesters from harm as he does so. He decides not to seek out Dean’s help while he’s raking leaves because Dean had already sacrificed too much in Castiel’s eyes. He raises Sam from perdition because he feels it the right thing to do. He re-sinks the Titanic to keep the boys from being killed by Fate.

Personally, I think Castiel has been slowly falling in love with Dean this entire time, he’s just not aware what this feeling is. But this becomes even more plausible to me when we get Castiel’s perspective in “The Man Who Would Be King.” Cas cares what Bobby and Sam think of him, sure, but all he focuses on is Dean. Dean’s happiness and ensuring he not sacrifice more. Dean’s loyalty even as Cas seems to be guilty. Dean’s words when they capture Cas in holy fire.

The problem is, their relationship this season is also rocky. Cas seems to think that he’s merely a tool at the Winchester’s disposal and not much else. But he doesn’t mind because he cares about them so much, so what do his feelings matter? He sees himself as their protector. Their guardian angel. A role he’s fine with filling regardless of how they feel in return.

But when things get bad, Dean says to him “Next to Sam, you and Bobby are the closest things I have to family. You are like a brother to me. So if I’m asking you not to do something... You’ve gotta trust me, man.” and Cas seems genuinely surprised at this admission. Emotional, even.

As time goes on, Castiel’s actions nearly primarily revolve around Dean

After Cas realizes his error and is sending the purgatory souls back to their place, he tells Dean repeatedly that he’ll find some way to redeem himself to him. That’s the most important thing to him then.

When Cas smites the demons outside of the mental hospital in 7x17, all of his flashes of memories coming back were memories of Dean.

Partially to aid Sam and partially to redeem himself to Dean, Cas takes on Sam’s Hell brain in the asylum and goes crazy.

Cas runs in purgatory to keep the leviathans away from Dean.

Cas breaks out of Naomi’s mind control/brainwashing because of his feelings for Dean.

Let’s talk about that final bullet point for a moment. The Naomi chapter is damning in “Goodbye Stranger.” It isn’t copies of both Sam and Dean that Naomi trains Castiel to kill hundreds upon hundreds of times. No, it’s ONLY clones of Dean.

“What broke the connection?” Dean will ask after Castiel heals him in the crypt and takes control back over his mind. “I don’t know.” Cas will say. It wasn’t the angel tablet. That may have unwound the last of Naomi’s control over him, yes, but he’d dropped that angel blade before that. It was Dean that broke that connection. Even if this remains unsaid, it doesn’t make it any less true. Maybe Castiel starts to have an understanding of what his feelings are and what they mean here, but he won’t be truly sure until he soon becomes human.

Before we get there, though, we’ll take a brief pause to explore Cas’ heterosexual explorations and connections.

First is Meg. Cas’ relationship with Meg is born of sexual exploration more than anything else at its conception. He’d just been watching porn in his downtime and when Meg kisses him, he goes with it enthusiastically. Later, he seems to have a certain infatuation with her in his “crazy” state, and seems to trust her perhaps simply because she had been watching over him in the institution.

This is interesting because in his “crazy” state, Cas is a lot more raw and unfiltered and optimistic than he ever has been before. He compliments her, is concerned with her safety, and trusts her. On the contrary, with Dean, Cas is a lot more hesitant and even fearful when talking about certain subjects with him because of his past failings. He tries to keep the peace without directly getting involved because his direct involvement in the past had failed them all so spectacularly.

He and Meg continue to have a sort of connection whenever they cross paths until her demise the next season, and he still holds a respect for her years later, continuing to use her nickname for him “Clarence” as an alias at various times.

When Castiel becomes human in S9, he’s a bit lost and overwhelmed. April takes him in for the night. Although this is a short-lived romance considering she tortures and kills him the next day, for a brief enough time Cas starts to become acquainted with human romance and sexual desire. He loses his virginity to her. It is estimated by some that this is merely sexual experimentation on the part of a very confused newly human Cas, and others have used this to say that Cas is not gay but pan or bi. The conclusion in any regard, in my opinion, is purely up to the viewer.

If I’m to offer my opinion, however, seeing as he has shown interest in both sexes, though remains unlabeled, I consider him simply an unlabeled queer person. Sexual identity and orientation has never seemed to matter much to Castiel, so I don’t see why it should matter to me. He loves who he loves, simple as that.

When we get to Hannah, she provides an interesting foil to Castiel for a time, and an emphasizing expression on just how much he’s changed since his introduction to Earth and the Winchesters. Where Castiel has been open to a plethora of new emotions and experiences through the years which have made him a bit more human than angel at times, Hannah is still new to humanity and the range and movement of emotions that come with it. Just how little she seems to understand proves how much Castiel has grown and does understand by comparison.

As such, he seems to pick up on the fact that Hannah has an attachment to him that appears to be forming into a romantic or sexual interest. He gently turns her down multiple times, not expressing interest in her behavior although he does respect her greatly as a person. Though this relationship isn’t considered romantic from Castiel’s perspective, its unrequited nature again is a good parallel to Dean and Crowley’s relationship at this same time. Angel x Angel and Demon x Demon. Both one sided.

Now, let’s get back to Dean.

Up to the point that Castiel turns human, for however brief a time, he finally gets a look behind the curtain of human emotion. Now, we all know that Cas is in love with Dean already here- and probably has been for some time. Years, even- but it’s my personal belief that during this time turning human is when he actually realizes it and understands where these emotions come from.

Maybe it’s the heartbreak of Dean kicking him from the bunker, maybe it’s seeing Dean again when he shows up in line at the Gas n Sip, or maybe it’s somewhere in between when he sees two people on the street looking at each other and realizes “oh, that’s love. I know what that is. I felt that, too.” And every moment from then on he realizes what that feeling was in his chest when he looked at Dean for a little too long, or why it hurt so much to see the pain in Dean’s eyes at something Cas had done, or why hearing Dean’s prayers to him just felt different than they did with Sam’s. Why everything that he’d done since he rebelled from heaven was in the name of doing the right thing, muddled alongside doing the right thing for Dean. Caring because of Dean. Caring for Dean.

It’s during this time when he realizes what these feelings are, that he also must come to terms with the fact that they’re unreciprocated (or as he believes, anyway). This is for two reasons. The first, he still believes at this time that Dean kicked him from the bunker just because. And the second, if there’s anything that Cas took to heart from Dean’s example as strongly as the concept of free-will, it’s self-loathing. He doesn’t see himself worthy of love. Dean doesn’t see himself worthy of love either. They’re both messy piles of self-loathing that breeds into a blindness to the depth of care they hold for one another.

Now that we’re on the topic of self-loathing, this leads into Castiel and his decision to become Lucifer’s vessel in season 11. Much like Dean, Cas has a consistent issue with seeing his own personal self-worth, so when the opportunity comes along to “be of service to the fight” and become Lucifer’s vessel, he takes it on easily. He considers himself expendable, and he won’t see just how much Dean struggles with this fact while he’s possessed. In fact, Cas never knows just how much Dean struggles with his absence at all, which is just one of the many divides between the two of them that could easily be resolved with communication, if either were ever good at that.

Once Lucifer is shoved from Cas’ body, however, Dean makes a point to let Cas know just how important he is in his life. He’s said Cas was family before, but that was before the falling out at the end of season 6. Dean makes it clear that he and Sam both consider Cas family, once again, during a ride in Baby. “You’re our brother, Cas. I want you to know that.”

Now, here, simultaneous heartbreak and love occur. Because while Cas is likely very much in love with Dean here, and very much aware of it, to hear that Dean simply thinks of him as a brother must ache a bit. However, we’re also talking about Dean Winchester, and for him to call someone a brother is an immense depth of love, probably the most the man is even capable of. Dean never says the words “I love you” to anyone, so this is about the closest anyone could get. Cas knows this, he’s well-versed in the ways of Dean Winchester by now. So, while it aches, his heart is also full.

Comparable to:

“We need you, Cas. I need you.” 8x17

“We’re gonna shove your ass back through the eye of that needle if it kills all three of us.” 8x05

“Don’t make me lose you, too.” 7x23

“Don’t do anything stupid”

The entire purgatory confession/apology prayer in 15x09

Cas returns this love just hours later, offering to go with Dean to die taking out Amara.

If we jump forward to the divorce arc of season 14-15, we can hit upon the next great heartbreak of Castiel’s sad little love life. While the Winchester brothers, Castiel, and Jack have all become a family unit, Castiel never wants to lose that. But two things happen. First, Cas’ deal with The Empty is made, and somewhere along the line, silently, he becomes aware that allowing himself to be happy, and that happiness, somehow involves Dean. The second thing that happens is Jack kills Mary Winchester, and Dean says Castiel is dead to him.

So, The Empty won’t take him, but his family is broken apart. Castiel never gives up on a single family member, though. That’s the thing about Cas. The same way he consistently forgives Dean for all his behaviors over the years, he never loses faith in anyone in this family. And when they come to reunite, he’s happy simply in appreciating any and all time they have together, however brief.

Then, in true Castiel fashion, he sacrifices himself for Dean Winchester in 15x18.

Their relationship has always left things unsaid, but I don’t think there’s ever been a question on whether Dean loves Cas or Cas loves Dean even if they don’t talk about it. You can’t look at Cas and Dean’s faces seeing each other again for the first time in weeks at the end of “The Last Call” and say that there wasn’t love and heartbreak there. On some level I think that Cas knew that Dean loved him back, but Dean was so buried in trauma at that point that it might take him years more to realize what he actually felt and what he needed. But Cas is such a selfless lover that he was absolutely 100% fine with just being around Dean for the rest of his life, even if he never got a chance to tell him how much he genuinely cared for him, and never got that reciprocation back. Castiel’s love for Dean is so pure and selfless it’s overwhelming to even consider, but for someone like Dean it would be a hundred times harder to accept or even fathom someone caring about him as much as Cas does.

So Castiel never pushes Dean further, never suggests, barely even touches him. The only liberties Cas takes are small touches to heal him (even though he doesn’t need to touch a person to heal them), a few small hugs through the years, just sharing comfortable space inside the impala, small moments watching Dean’s favorite movies with him, or sharing a moment over beers in the kitchen. And Cas’ happiness was in telling Dean how much he loved him likely because then maybe Dean would actually see how much he was worth. Cas wanted Dean to know how much he loved him and how he viewed him, because Dean deserved to love himself and was worthy of it.

The five types of love languages are as follows:

Words of affirmation

Physical touch

Gift giving

Acts of Service

Quality Time

One of the reasons Dean and Cas miss the mark with one another so often could simply come down to love languages. A lot of the time, what a person needs in love language is often what they also give. I don’t think this is the case where these two are concerned, though. They’re both so sacrificial that it’s difficult for them to accept this in return, even though this is what they each offer to the other and anyone else around them.

Both Cas and Dean’s giving love language is “acts of service” which translates into sacrificial actions much of the time, though it can also be more domestic than that as well. It’s Dean grabbing an extra beer for Cas or making food, or it’s Cas healing Dean without any prompting, Cas loading up on pie and beer at the Gas n Sip when Dean’s mad at him.

What they each need, however, is different. Dean needs “quality time.” He needs his people close, he needs them to answer calls, and he needs to know where they are. This clearly ties in to his abandonment issues, and it hurts his relationship with Cas significantly when the angel just keeps leaving, or disappears without answering his phone for days at a time. And when he dies, obviously. He always comes back, though. And half the time when he’s gone it’s because he’s trying to get a win for Dean against whatever issue the team is facing at the time.

What Cas needs, best I can tell, is “words of affirmation.” Cas has a consistent problem with thinking that he’s worth less than he is, and is less important to the people around him than he is. Dean obviously has this issue, too, but with Cas it’s somehow infinitely worse, if that’s even possible. Frequently, what he needs to get him going in low points is a few words from Dean or encouragement in general. To name a few:

“Maybe to fix it.” 7x17

“I’d rather have you, cursed or not.” 7x23, Cas then goes with Dean to find and kill Dick Roman

“I’m not leaving here without you.” S8 in purgatory when Cas wanted Dean to leave him behind but Dean was having none of it.

“You’re our brother, Cas.” 11x23, after Cas was possessed by Lucifer and thought he was expendable.

Over time, Dean does get a bit more vocal with Cas about issues he’s having or just with encouraging words as well. Cas, too, sticks around a lot more. They’re not perfect but they do begin to grow and work with one another in these later years to give one another what they need most to see how much the other is loved.

In conclusion, there is a significant amount of romance and sexuality written into this show, and simply interpreted as well. And that’s the thing, when a queer person says that they interpreted a certain piece of media as queer, it’s not up to someone else to say that they can’t, or shouldn’t, or that they’re interpreting something wrong. That’s the thing about media, it can have so many different interpretations and meanings to so many different people.

It’s my personal interpretation to see the queerness embedded in the text here. Maybe it’s not there for another person, and that’s cool too, just don’t tell me how I should see it. The fact is that it was written into the show to be interpreted, and interpret is what we did.

I’d love to hear any feedback that others may have regarding this. Any other theories, different interpretations, things I may have missed. I hope you enjoy the edits, and the endings I put together for them. We all need a little bit of happiness after that ending, so I hope it leaves you with a lighter heart. :)

Much love,

Taylor

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alsaurus-loves-dean · 3 years

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okay i'm sorry in advance for this vent, but i have a shitton of thoughts about the absolute mountain of vitriol being thrown at jensen, and i want to say thank you so much for putting your neck out there and being so calm and sane about it. i think it's ridiculous that the conversation is basically only on jensen and not on j*red's extremely shitty and offensive and hurtful rant. jensen did the best he could with the stressful, uncomfortable situation he was given. do i think his answer was perfect? no, i don't, but i think it was definitely on a great track, and i have a HUGE issue with what people are saying about this. why does it have to be about sex? i don't personally really hc cas as ace, but i know a lot of people do, and i actually see him as demi, most of the time. attacking jensen and saying the reason why he chose to avoid the topic by saying it was "undefinable" and "didn't include lust" (which. jesus, that was a GENERAL thought, it was the fact that romantic doesn't necessarily mean lustful, and that was a great point to make) was because he "thinks gay men having sex is gross" genuinely fills me with so much discomfort. i'm a bi guy, so i perfectly understand the issue of society portraying gay sex as gross. yes. thank you, i live it every day. but why would a love that is all-encompassing, that goes beyond what we could possibly understand, and doesn't necessarily include lust, be deemed "less-than"? why are people angry about it? jensen's answer wasn't complete, both because he doesn't necessarily understand cas' character as much as misha does, and because of j*red's interruption, but i agreed with him on a lot of points. i find it hurtful that cas' queer love (because it was about love, the conversation was about Love, not whatever other feelings cas may have for dean, which includes lust. again, romance =/= lust.) is downplayed by the fandom. loving beyond comprehension, as an angel, is a positively beautiful thought. loving a man, as a non-binary cosmic entity, so much that it can't be described by human terms, is a beautiful thought. LOVING FOR THE SAKE OF LOVING is a beautiful thought, and sex has no place here. yes i do think "carnal desires" are also present in the relationship. but i don't think it should be entered in the "love equation". queer love, in-and-of-itself, is beautiful. the confession scene wasn't about cas telling dean he wants to fuck him then and there. it was about love. and i find it hurtful to see that erased the second the conversation is solely about the concept of cas' love. then it becomes "suspicious", surely the reason behind talking candidly about a love confession *has* to be because he finds gay sex disgusting, right? it *has* to revolve around sex one way or another, and can't be about the sheer beauty of what the most powerful love in the universe can be like, and how hard a concept that would've been for dean to understand. naaahhhh. i'm demi, so it definitely hurts to see that in some way shape or form, a huge piece of my identity is seen as "not good enough", or even just "not enough" to be real. i'm tired of that. they say that removing lust from the equation infantilizes gay love? well i say, why are yOU infantilizing and downplaying queer acespec identities? there are adults out there, me included, who have been told we're childish, or ridiculous, for not feeling/not feeling a lot of lust. but it's not ridiculous. it's not childish. adult romantic love IS enough, and it IS valid. and in the case of cas, that love, whether or not it's paired with lust, IS special, and it IS incredible, and it IS enough, and it made me so happy to see jensen separate lust and love, and call cas' love beautiful. fuck off with your "okay but castiel has gay sex and jensen must find that disgusting if he doesn't agree". fuck. off. i'm genuinely sad and pissed off. why aren't we talking more about the first part of his answer? before j*red started a shitshow? why aren't we talking about the fact that jensen said dean didn't know *until the end*, implying he DID end up acting it as

though dean understood this was a declaration of love? because that, to me, was crucial. i'm just so tired of being told, directly or indirectly, that loving romantically or platonically isn't loving fully. that's it's not complete. that i, in turn, am not complete. they hc other characters as ace, but get upset when someone doesn't mention sex when talking about another character, proving the fact that they don't actually think a main character can love be fulfilled AND be ace, or demi, or aro. those are identities they slap onto the characters whose sex life they don't want to deal with, either because they don't like them, or find them childish. so yeah. jensen gave an unsurprisingly hazy answer, because this is in public, and he has to protect his career, and jared was there, and the cw, and whatever other bs restrictions were present in the room in spirit and physically, but i was content with it. of course dean and cas having gay sex doesn't make them disgusting, of fucking course not. if you find that idea freeing, then i am so glad you have an outlet to think about their relationship as centered around their sex life. i wholeheartedly disagree, i think there are a thousand other facets to their relationship, but if it makes you happy, then please go ahead. just don't fucking spit at me vicariously through a post about jensen because some people don't think about them the same way. (i'm using "you" but it's not directed at *you* you btw lmao) anyways. rant over i think. i'm sorry for how long it is kjfhjs

I’m sorry that this discourse has been especially difficult for you. 😔 Yours is a perspective I haven’t seen much throughout all of this, so thank you so much for explaining your thoughts in this message.

#❤️❤️❤️#anon

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ouyangzizhensdad · 3 years

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i've debated with myself so much about madam yu and saw you rt that post defending her and i read it but it still didn't sit right with me, i'm not chinese but i am from one of those taugh love mom cultures and still find her extra bad, i asked a few chinese people who don't stan the book and they were horrified at the defense and said that it was not normal, sure she shows regular ch mom characteristics but she's like the hyperbole of a ch mom so does anyone own the monopoly of wha's normal?

Hi there anon,

This is only my pov and I cannot speak from the perspectives of Chinese and Chinese diasporic people, nor for the people who wrote on the topic of Yu-furen (I can only speak of how I interpreted the posts I came across).

My understanding of the situation, however, is that they are not attempting to do with these posts what you are suggesting. You ask “does anyone own the monopoly of what’s normal”, which suggests you believe the posts meant to give a definitive answer on what is ‘normal’ behaviour, when in reality the posts seem to have been made with the opposite aim in mind: to remind people who do not share the cultural background of the intended audience of MDZS that there does not exist a single definition of what constitute “normal” behaviour and that fandom discussions dissecting every single action or word of Yu-furen’s toward any character to portray them as “clear signs of abuse” has been difficult to stomach and might even feel imperialistic for people who have been raised by parents who came from a cultural background where some of these very behaviours are not regarded as abusive.

These posts, in general, have also seemed to attempt first to explain the nuances of Yu-furen’s relationship to WWX, which often gets wrongfully portrayed as her unequivocally being his adoptive mother or a legal guardian. She is not a mother figure to him and does not act toward him from that position. These have also aimed to remind people that the behaviours and care we feel are “owed” to “children” as a group are spatiotemporally specific, and influenced by a variety of factors--in this case, WWX being the child of a servant and a disciple of the sect. By reminding people that, in her position, in that specific spatiotemporal moment, Yu-furen would have been allowed to be much more extreme in her disciplining or could have simply refused to let WWX stay in Lotus Pier, what I feel these posters are doing is not telling Westerners that they personally think it would be appropriate behaviour towards a child, but rather highlighting that this means something wrt how Yu-furen is characterised in the context of the novel considering that the intended audience of the novel would be aware of that reality. Differently put, that it suggests a framing of Yu-furen as someone that does bark more than she bites even if she does bite. And aside from the irrelevant surface-level readings of Yu-furen as a sort of “girlboss” that seem to originate mostly from the CQL-verse in any case, I’ve never seen anyone suggest that she is irreproachable. All the serious analyses I’ve seen acknowledge that Yu-furen is meant to be a complicated figure or acknowledge that she abuses her authority in the sect by giving WWX punishments she does not bestow on other disciples. What they seem to disagree with is the ways western fans make sweeping generalisations and accusations without the relevant context, which comes off to them as insensitive and coming from a place of cultural ignorance.

Maybe it is time for a discussion that humanist thought, that which underlines so much of our modern understanding of rights and social progress, flattens spatiotemporal differences (or, as they often talked about, cultural differences), staying deeply rooted in Western supremacy when it aims to provide a single answer to what is right and what is a right. It can verge very easily into the evangelical and the imperialistic: we have only to look at the influence of the “global” LGBT movement has had on erasing localised social organisations and identity markers by superposing themselves unto them as more intelligible ideas through which to barter for rights with the political class. Or worst, by having the “global” LGBT movement frame localised expressions of queerness as not progressive enough or harmful (sometimes I think back at Gaudio’s ethnography of queer men in the Hausa-speaking region of northern Nigeria, and how the men who took on the penetrative role in sex generally switch to self-reference and being referenced in a feminine way and using “women’s talk”, and thinking “wow, they would be so cancelled or condescended to by tumblr kids 😬”).

The point of this tangent is not to underline that everything about humanism or its influences on modern life are bad, but that it is an intellectual “tool” that can be do harm and be imperialistic and racist (since it is generally the White, Christian-adjacent, Western standards that are posited as the moral truth that defies differences in cultures and material contexts). And most of the discussions of what “adults” owe to “children” (ideas that are generally treated as homogeneous and clear-cut across time and space, as apriori categories), of what rights are owed to children, exist within these frameworks. Or, they might exist within the framework of “science,” as if science itself cannot be influenced by Western imperialism and researchers’ biases. Reading western language acquisition research and comparing it with cross-cultural ethnographic sociolinguistic research on language acquisition really highlights how some of the science that informs “good parenting” in the West is incapable of realising how much the material and cultural context of the West influences the results that are supposedly controlled.

Or, again, the idea that science can help us define clearly and once and for all where the line between shitty actions and abuse, or discipline and abuse, should be drawn, is to me one that cannot be dissociated from a belief that science can provide us with definite truths about our existence as social animals as if these sort of truths were not inherently positioned and negotiated. It is an uncomfortable idea, isn’t it, to realise that two people can be against abuse but at the same time not draw the line at the same place? How do we best grapple with the discovery that “abuse” is not an apriori category but rather one that is constructed according to varying forms of positioned and shifting knowledge and experience? I do not have an answer, but I certainly think that fandom arguments will probably not be the best place for that level of philosophical discussions.

To conclude, anon, I do want to acknowledge that your ask seems to come from a place of concern and perhaps even hurt. And that is perhaps why the posts from Chinese diasporic people in the fandom might appear to you as dismissive or flippant towards the interpretations of other fans of the novel. But perhaps without this prism of concern and/or hurt through which your perception of these analyses are filtered, you might have been able to notice a lot more nuance to their points than what your ask suggests. And that is not a criticism per se, but simply a reminder that, sometimes, some topics are difficult for us to approach clear-headed and to receive differing perspectives in good faith. In any case, I am certainly not the arbiter whose opinion on the topic will finally settle these debates, as such you might want in the future prefer to direct your questions (politely of course) to people who penned such analyses or who can speak from the relevant cultural perspective. If your aim in sending me this ask (because I reblogged a post you disagreed with) was to judge whether I passed your litmus test for being “morally just” to decide whether anything I have to say on any other topic is still worth paying attention to, well I suppose you now have your answer.

#anon ask #abuse cw #fandom discussions #yu-furen #long post

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bunsndoofs · 4 years

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Why Lumity Is Important to TOH

So recently, I saw an argument playing out in a comment section, in which one of the people involved states “why do we need luz and amity to get together so badly, just focus on having Luz become a witch”. So putting aside the whole “its Disney first proper form of queer relationships so yes its important” debate and ignoring the fact its even gay so anyone cant say “you only like it because its gay” Lumity is an integral part of the story and its theme. Mainly, one of its themes of taking your flaws and seeing them as a source of strength rather than weakness

Lets first analyze the very first episode, where we have Luz in the office after clearly messing up and releasing snakes in the school. Now this clearly isn’t supposed to be a positive thing, and of course her mother and the principal try and figure out how to help her. The issue with this though is the way they decide how to help her, they focus on trying to get rid of her creativity and energy in its entirety as well as try and enforce reality on her heavily. They see this flaw of her, and encourage her to erase it away using force to get rid of at once, all the while while ignoring the most positive element about this: her creativity. And while yes, it was what caused the issue. They don’t try and offer help to Luz other ways that maintain her creativity while allowing her to understand what she did was bad, they instead choose the option that gets rid of her flaw in its entirety. They lack the ability to see potential and growth and only see that flaws are an issue rather than something to use to better someone

This is countered when later in the boiling isles, Luz is allowed too see her flaw as something of a source of power. When shes there, everyone is quick to point out how shes human, and how that flaw weakens her from doing magic. instead Luz uses that very flaw to find new magic in the form of drawing out the spell and finds strength in that, which even is something that gives her advantage when facing the monster in “First Day”, and thus creates something out of the very title of being human that originally made her weak.

This is shown throughout the show with many characters, willows whole arc in episode 3 is about taking her weakness in abomination magic and using that to find that shed rather do plant magic. When King struggles with his relationship with Luz and in “Really Small Problem” when the friendship bracelet between them breaks, signifying the weakness and collapse in their relationship, he then uses that broken item to save everyone and then uses the broken pieces to share the bracelet between everyone. Hell the whole story of “Adventure in the Elements”, is Luz taking this area after it being deemed useless, and then using it to save everyone and gain even more power and strength

And then, there’s Amity. Amity who’s whole character is based around the fear of being perceived as weak. Her relationship with Willow was tarnished because she was “Too weak to be her friend”, and then there’s Grom where Amity’s whole fear was being to scared to fight her own battle. And this is where her relationship with Luz comes to play. Because Luz is the one who breaks down those walls and has Amity actually display weakness.

“Convention” displays this theme perfectly and Luz and Amity’s relationship, where the two try their hardest to be seen as the stronger one. This getting to the point where both Lilith and Eda get them to cheat, just because they want to establish superiority. And when they find out, Amity is displayed to be vulnerable completely, in one of the lowest moments on the show. She even states that Luz made her look like “Fool”, to say that even then, all she cares about is what others perceive her as and whether o not the crowd saw her as a coward. So she hammers down, continuing with her debate and shunning for Luz weakness of the fact shes human and how she isn't a witch. But then Luz accepts it to Amity’s surprise saying “I’m not a witch, but im training to be one” she shows optimism and proceeds to show off her light spell, in which Amity first comments on how its beginner magic. bUt she appreciates it BECAUSE Luz’s humanism, something that previously made her weak.

From there, its because Luz was there that Amity was able to show off the sides of her that she was ashamed of. She publicly shows affection towards her favorite book character in front of Luz, after in the beginning of the episode denying her reading for kids rather than admitting she enjoys it. Understanding Willow shows this further, where Amity goes from hiding her faults and mishaps in how she treated Willow to Luz, being heavily pessimistic because of the fact she caused all of this, and due to Luz’s motivation that “We can do this together,” she was able to confront her fears, ACCEPT that she was too weak, and while it didnt fix everything it bettered their relationship. Which, without Luz, might not have happened if Luz wasnt there to support her and believe in herself. And Wing it like Witches even shows Amity frustrations with her past mistakes as grudgby captain where Luz then gives her the opportunity to use that and better her past mistakes and use it to support the team rather than do hat makes her happy, even hurting her leg and letting Willow score.

And with Luz, the support and acceptance of weakness goes far as well. Luz complains about her queasiness and fear in grom, in which amity then goes on about how Luz is incredibly brave and is able to do stuff she never could. And in Wing it like Witches Amity even states “She can be so stupid, which I LOVE” which just shows her support, even after Luz messes up, and hurt her teammates and is stuck in a bad situation, amity still believes in her and loves her REGARDLESS of her flaws.

They both need each other as opposite ends of a spectrum, amity is a character who is depicted as perfect and luz is constantly seen as a failure. But these two NEED each other, Amity so Luz can accept the positives in her her flaws to have more confidence, and Amity needs Luz to accept that its okay to be flawed and to accept who she is to become a better person. Lumity is needed in this regard, and just the plotline having Luz becoming a witch isnt possible because in order to grow physically in terms of power Luz needs to first grow emotionally, and Amity is the best character to do this through. They need each other, you cant just erase that and have the same show because their love is that important in the theme of self acceptance.

#lumity #lumity analysis #toh analysis #toh #the owl house #toh amity #toh luz #reposted cause it wasnt showing up in tags #spent a good hour on this not about to screw myself over like that lol

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amwritingmeta · 3 years

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Hello there! So, fellow destiel shipper here, read all about the finale a few hours ago... I just saw your destiel queerbaiting analysis (LOVED IT!) and... what are your thoughts on Carry On? (canyoutellimshamelesslylookingforsomecatharticrants)

Hello my dear!

I’ll admit I’m in a ranting mood, so you’re in luck. Catch me in a few days and I’ll probably be less ranty, more level headed, more oh they think they can shove Cas out of the narrative and hint he’s running around fixing Heaven with Jack without actually giving us a visual establishing of TFW 2.O reunited and of course especially Cas and Dean reunited and we’ll all just be absolutely understanding of that and nod and go, mh, makes sense because the show was always about the brothers wasn’t it, mh, mh hmh, hmmmmmmmmh let me present you with my slideshow of why and how of course we shall not go any form of mh at it.

This is not a few days from now. (look out for that slideshow though) (it will be spectacular)

Queerbaiting. Such a hotly contested topic in relation to this show. If you read my analysis then you know the faith I’ve always had. For four years. Unwavering faith. I’ve seen it so clearly in this narrative because I’ve wanted to see it, because it got me excited for what this narrative might be moving towards ripping apart, which is how the American manly man is represented in media such as this, the one that mildly glorifies the violent, repressed, WHITE middle-class male. The not quite well-educated but street-smart WHITE male. The modern cowboy WHITE male.

For someone representative of all these things to flip the switch and reveal himself to be bisexual would’ve been... well, glorious. It would have been utterly glorious.

So were we - was I - queerbaited into thinking this would happen? That we’d get queer representation, in full, on Supernatural through the stated love story of Dean and Cas?

I. Still. Don’t. Know.

I’m serious. That’s the truth. The ugly fucking annoying frustrating goddamn truth. Dammit!!

(I may have had wine and whisky and a bit of beer so pls ignore me if this turns from rant to ramble) *drunk af* *that’s not true* *I’m tipsy at best* *aiming for drunk af though*

I don’t know if “queerbaiting” is what these writers engaged with for over a decade because I don’t know if they knew for sure that they would never be able to deliver it, or if it’s possible that all the showrunners and all the writers throughout all the seasons that have played around with the Destiel subtext HOPED that it might come to fruition once the finale rolled around.

Here’s another question, though:

Was I queerbaited into watching this fucking disaster of a finale because I was left with the hope that Cas was going to return?

I would, at this moment in time, say ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY I WAS.

I didn’t get to grieve Cas when I was supposed to BECAUSE I HAD NO INDICATION FROM THE CAST OR SHOWRUNNER OR ANYONE CURRENTLY ON THE SHOW THAT THE DEATH WAS STICKING AND HE WAS NOT COMING BACK OMFGGGGGG THIS IS THE WORST THING THEY’VE EVER FUCKING DONE!!!!!!!!!!

I swear to Jack. I’ll never forgive them for this. Not that they want any forgiveness or expect it or would ever even seek it. Obviously. All they cared about was the fucking ratings for the finale, which would’ve been lower if we knew for sure there was no Cas in it.

I wouldn’t have watched it as eagerly, I’ll admit that. I would’ve watched it, though, which is what makes me sad. At least I could’ve been prepared for the badness, for the utter pit of horrors that awaited me, at least I could’ve been in acceptance mode and nodded and laughed a little, maybe shook my head like, yeah, makes sense. But no.

Nope.

And yes fine Cas is in Heaven with Jack so it’s not like they didn’t HINT that maybe at SOME POINT these men will all be reunited but omfg.

The finale.

Does not.

Exist.

I refuse to acknowledge it’s existence. It existed for about an hour and a half while I was going through every single stage of grief with my pal @natmoose and then I moved into laughter at the absolute ridiculousness of this whole situation, and acceptance, and now I’m just drinking. And chilling.

Here’s where I take proper offence.

I take offence at 15x18. I take offence at the episode beginning with two queer characters having their relationship torn apart by one disappearing, and then the person remaining lamenting the fact that she dared open her heart and then this happened - her person is just GONE - only for Charlie to then die as well. Visually. Disappearing from sight. Erased.

I take offence at a straight couple consisting of one deaf character getting torn apart, yet more representation just inexplicably erased.

And then I take offence at this love story I’ve followed and adored and hoped and embraced as the possibility for healthy representation and healthy progression for Dean and for Cas for four years, a love story others have embraced for well over a decade, ending in Cas finally reaching a moment of true happiness, and that happiness requiring a self-sacrifice so great that his I love you literally means death.

I take offence at all this. It makes me fucking angry. It’s dismissive of what representation means to a lot of people and it MAKES NO SENSE since it’s written by a writer who has always seemed extremely sensitive to these things.

So. Queerbaiting occurred, to my mind, for sure for the first time in these two weeks after 15x18, where the lid was put on Cas actually dying, and there were enough hinting that he did for everyone to throw their hands up and say but we thought it was OBVIOUS, but not enough of it there to put us off watching the finale, because we might’ve been put off had we known, for sure, hands down, that Cas was not going to come back.

Or perhaps that hope wasn’t wide spread and most people accepted his death for what it was. I know some people immediately saw it for what it was, I saw a few posts on Instagram and Twitter to that effect, so, you know, idk. Maybe it’s just me. Being hopeful. Yearning for hopeful endings. The fact that the show didn’t deliver the ending I was hopeful for isn’t, end of the day, the show’s fault.

To me, the way I view this narrative, the way I’ve always read it, this ending makes no sense, regresses both brothers in horrifying ways, underlines the codependency as the healthy option (which makes me feel physically ill btw), and leaves us with the moral of the story being... what? What was it for? What was it all about?? WHAT WAS IT ALL ABOUT PEOPLE???

Anyway. Finale does not exist. So it’s about love, and growth, and identity, and freedom, and finding peace with who you truly are.

Dean did not get impaled. In a vamp den. In a BARN. Like how DARED THEY KILL HIM IN A BARN?? OMFGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

Sorry.

Does not exist.

Okay, this is already long. Did I... rant enough? Did I talk about queerbaiting enough? I’m not going to throw queerbaiting shade on the entire narrative. I just can’t. But queerbaiting shade on 15x18? Yah. Thrown.

Sigh.

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chaoticlarrie · 3 years

Text

Watching spn for the 1st time in 2020 - Bisexual Dean

or,

How supernatural queerbaited itself into destroying the bi-erasure pit of darkness and i think it’s beautiful (in its own fucked-up way).

(apologies in advance for my crude language)

So I’m still in mid season 8 of spn and haven’t watch the rest but I had some thoughts about the clusterfuck that is Dean’s sexuality.

It seems like Dean was meant to be straight? I don’t think the creators/producers/writers, in the beginning, meant for Dean to be queer. To be honest I don’t even think they questioned it one second. If I’m wrong please correct me. Did the creator, Kripke, ever made a comment about Dean’s sexuality?

So the character is heavily presented as liking girls, wanting girls, banging chicks left and right (and all the girls he meets want to fuck him?? though i get it...). He wants to see female strippers, go to brothels, likes magazine porns, video porns, anime porns...

But at the same time Dean, actually, genuinely, regularly checks out guys ??

So we have : the guys he checks out, the doctor sexy thing, the fetish for male cowboy wear, the seducing of a guy with his words when the lesbian couldn’t do it ?? the siren who lures him by being a guy who’s into led zepplin and it works ????

So the creators didn’t meant for Dean to be queer and apparently the actor neither yet he is heavily queer coded ??

Apparently you can unintentionally be queercoding your own character ?!

Also, all of this is even without bringing up Castiel, so ...

And almost every time we have a brief apparition of queer Dean, you have in the next scene or so a big reinforcement of the “Dean wants to bang chicks” narrative.

And here’s my theory (as I said before, I haven’t seen the whole show yet so I may be wrong here, it’s just an outsider of the fandom pov but i’m open to corrections):

When realizing the potential of queerbaiting that they could do with the destiel situation, they reinforced the queercoding on Dean so the shipper audience could hope for a not totally straight Dean, while the general audience kept perceiving a totally, 100% straight Dean (queerbaiting at its finest, you’ve got to give it to them).

And it worked thanks to a marvelous little thing called bi-erasure. Almost every straight person do not understand that bisexuality is a real thing and not a stepping stone towards more gayer things. (Sadly enough, it’s also the case of a lot of gays and lesbians but that’s another conversation). So in their mind, (the general, straighter, public), as long as Dean was interested in girls, he couldn’t be possibly interested in guys. You could show him eye fucking Castiel all you want, if he reads an asian ladies porn magazine in the next scene, it means he’s straight (bi-erasure is a powerful thing I tell ya).

And if you think that’s not true, that people know about bisexuality and are able to put 2 and 2 together, well you would be wrong. The visibility of bisexuals really improved in the last 3/2 years but here I’m talking about 2013 and before (season 8 and before) and trust me, the kids were not that woke, I was one of those erased bisexual.

I even suspect the creators, writers, producers, not considering that bisexuality was a serious possible sexual orientation and therefore queercoding Dean “risk free” of being perceived too gay.

It probably sounds crazy for the gen-z (and thank god) but I swear that I lived my teenager years in a time were all bi guys were secretly gay and all bi girls just straight attention whores (you can notice how this joyful narrative comes from males being persuaded that everyone secretly want their dick...). Anyway, at the time, the general idea is that a guy who genuinely wants to bang chicks can not possibly want to bang dudes.

And that’s how they made the “totally straight eye fucking dudes Dean Winchester” work.

And here i’m extrapolating cause I haven’t seen the later seasons but my guess is that the years pass, the seasons keep being produced and they just kept the destiel queerbainting to cater to the hardcore fans (and the shippers, in every fandom, are always the hardcore fans, let’s not kid ourselves) without ever having the intention to make it canon.

But in the end, we come to a point where Dean has been queer coded for so many years, his relationship with Cas so emphasized, the general public made aware of the possibility of bi characters, that the only logical explanation is that Dean is genuinely in love with Castiel, and bi, and at this point, not making Destiel canon feels weird and homophobic.

Also, the idea of Dean being a kinda-repressed, semi-closeted, complete disaster bi makes SO much sense considering the character background, upbringing and current environment (like, seriously, the hunter community is not lgbt friendly...). Hell, I live in a big city in europe with liberals all over amongst family and friends and I’m not even fully out yet well in my twenties. You can’t expect childhood trauma, emotionally abused, ultra conservative and “manly” environnement Dean to get his shit together right away when he realizes he likes guys.

Anyway, all of that to say, that I don’t care if Dean is meant to be canonically bi or not, to me he is. Because I identify with the character heavily, and I love him and want to protect him and I don’t take arguments on that. I love the character that was created and evolved throughout the years, no matter if it is what he was meant to be or if it was unintentional (I did not expect to get emotionally involved in my “ironic” watch of spn in 2020 but fuck.)

As always, my sympathy to the spn fandom and my ever lasting admiration for the bullshit they endured through the years.

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sweet-croissants · 3 years

Text

Julie and the Phantoms Character Appreciation

Part 1 - Alex

I’ve never seen a character like Alex. No I don’t mean I’ve never seen a gay character/ character with anxiety. I’ve never seen a character where it’s not their entire personality or a show handle it the way they do. They didn’t have his “combing out scene” be this huge dramatic moment, they didn’t stop the spin of the earth so they could “reveal the truth about his sexuality!” No, it’s was said in a way that you could have almost missed it if you weren’t paying attention and it was said so casually that I almost forgot how important the representation he symbolized was. It was normal. They didn’t wait till the the 7th season, or even the end of the season to say it, so there was no queer baiting and no hesitation to embrace who he was in the show. Finally, the guys don’t ever, not once, talk about it to him as if he is going to burst out into tears if they say a word wrong. They don’t treat him as if he’s fragile about it, and I get it for some people it’s a sensitive topic and should be talked about carefully, but they know how Alex doesn’t want to be treated as if he’s weak. (E9 when they are in the hug circle thing “I feel stronger....not that I was ever weak”) And because of this, they don’t treat him like it. Obviously they aren’t insensitive but they don’t act as if they are walking on a minefield. His anxiety is relatable too. It’s not over done, exaggerated, or enhanced so they can get the point across that he has it only to drop in 10 minutes later to never mention it again. And both his anxiety and him being gay I’d done in a way that little kids can understand I think that we think topics like these to hard or difficult for kids to understand, but the truth is they can. You just have to be blunt in a way. Boys can like boys, girls can be boys, you can be whoever you wanna be, and it’s okay to worry over things even if they seem like you shouldn’t because “they are simple”, it’s all okay and natural.

Part 2 - Reggie

Reggie makes me happy to see because it shows certain things about kids who’s parents are divorced and are neglected. At the very least he was emotionally neglected, but neglected non the less. And obviously, not all kids handle this the same way, and that’s why Reggie is so important to me. Reggie obviously rebelled, even a little by joining a rock band and I don’t think he took on all the responsibility to take care of himself. Reggies not dumb, he’s oblivious and half the time I think he’s not as oblivious as we think he is. And he’s only oblivious when he thinks he can get away with it, like when he asks where Luke is going on his birthday as if he doesn’t know what happened. He also does something I found I used to do when I was lonely in a room full of people, and that’s ask dumb questions. Yes, he must know the answer but it’s puts a little attention on himself, and you can guess that he didn’t get a lot of that from his parents. Even if it’s at his expense, he’s willing to dell included in what they are talking about. He still has his serious moments though, which are usually right after he realizes that he can’t just play dumb to get out of the situation. You can also see that it hurts him a lot when he gets played off as being the dumb one, but it’s probably what he thinks of as his only way to get people to listen to him (everyone treating him like he’s an idiot also probably hurts his confidence leading to this too). Another thing I’ve noticed is his attachment to Ray. He knows how amazing of a father Ray is because of how much he loves Julie and Carlos. This is why he respects Ray so much, because even though he’s going through his own thing with his wife’s death, he never forgets to be their for his kids and that’s probably something Reggie never had.

Part 3 - Luke

Like is kinda special. I’ve seen characters similar to him but something about him sets him apart from everyone else I’ve seen. I’ve seen character that are cute and don’t take advantage of it but instead are super nice, I’ve seen that before but the difference is how he does it. In the first episode, right after Julie kicks the out, he’s not even mad or angry with her. Maybe he’s upset, but not at her. He’s upset because he just found out he died and then lost what he considers his second home. So, he explains that to her, but he doesn’t argue it he just wants to tell her his side of the story. And when she explains hers, he’s sorry and apologetic for her bad day and you can tell he’s being genuine. Before it’s obvious he likes her, he helps her get back into her music program because he knows how important it is. He gives her a song that he wrote and talks her up when she doubts herself. You can also tell that he never stopped loving his mom, no matter how many times they fought. He knows that she cared about him, which is why they fought in the first place. His only fear, the reason he never truly apologized, was he was scared he finally blew it. That he had officially messed up and she would want to hear from him, that he couldn’t fix what had happened. One more thing, I’ve never seen a character as passionate about something as him. I’m sure that character exists, no doubt, but personally I’ve never seen it. He doesn’t care about the money, yeah it’s a bonus but not the main focus. The main focus is putting a smile on people, making a difference to people, to not be alone. The entire reason he’s mad at Bobby for stealing is music without credit is that no one, including his mom, got to know his dream was worth it. He died and time erased him.

Part 4 - Julie

My love for Julie is astonishing. She’s a Hispanic girl, with gorgeous hair, and beautiful skin, and an amazing tooth gap. I almost fully expected it to be used as a thing she was bullied for, teased about, and made fun of for and when she fixes it, it shows that “she was always secretly beautiful/she could be beautiful all along” and all that junk. The fact that it’s not mentioned once is so wonderful because all people have flaws! People have tooth gaps, stretch marks, and different body types. No one is perfect and neither are their bodies. It also shows that Carrie, the “mean girl” of the show isn’t going to be like all the other mean girls in teen shows and it makes me appreciate her character more. It shows how they used to be friends and even thought Carrie can be mean, it’s never to the extent of making fun of what she looks like. One more thing with Carrie, Julie has never said a mean thing about her in the show. When Flynn makes the comment on the dance routine, she says “well it payed off” and she even complemented the song and choreography for All Eyes On Me. Not once has she said anything mean back and it shows how kind of a person she is. Even though Carrie humiliates her, she never has it in her to truly insult her back. Also, having a Hispanic girl as one of the main characters is wonderful! Representation is always heartwarming to see and this is no exception. They don’t try to shove it in your face in an unrealistic way, but it’s definitely in there consistently, it’s really nice. On top of all that, how she handles her mom‘s death is just as terrific. She’s right, playing music reminds her of her mom and that’s exactly why she should play music! It encourages others to know that it may hurt but it gets better. That there will come a point when smiles and joy filled where sadness and tears used to be when you think of those memories. She’s such a powerful person and it shows.

#jatp theory #julie and the phantoms #jatp songs #jatp #jatp analysis #jatp netflix #jatp alex #jatp reggie #jatp luke #jatp julie

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caden · 4 years

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Analysis of how “Tiger King” represents what it means to be deviant.

I just reblogged a post about how Tiger King ignores one of its character’s identities as a trans man— and the more I think about it, the more unfortunate that seems to me. It was a missed opportunity to further flesh out what I believe is documentary series’ biggest theme: deviance.

Every member of the cast is someone who has been othered by society. They are queer, homeless, impoverished, addicts, victims of abuse, ex-cons, disabled, cult leaders, etc. The show hits you over the head with how starkly out of the ordinary its cast is. The minor characters have a clear through-line: they were made deviant by society, and thusly made vulnerable— the major players have taken advantage of that in order to extract unconditional labor from them. Their bosses and husbands treat them with the same level of dignity they treat the animals. They are deviant, but they don’t have the power to do anything about it. The major players, however, have a different conflict— each of them is attempting to reintegrate their deviance into broader society. They want to be acknowledged, accepted, even celebrated for it.

This is why Joe Exotic slides into the role of protagonist so well-- he has a crystal clear goal, and that is simply to be accepted. This goal obviously springs from Joe’s upbringing as a gay kid living in dangerous, homophobic conditions. We know from episode 1 that Joe attempted suicide at a young age, and that he has never been able to function well within the confines of his society. However, the only path he sees to rejoining society is to play up his deviance, to become acknowledged as an idol of ‘weirdness’. He is always acting, always turning his personality up to 11. He starts fights, opportunistically chases power, manipulates the people around him with money and drugs all in the pursuit of being recognized. Initially, we might think that he wants to exist outside of society’s boundaries… but in the end, we realize that what he really wants is for society to extend its boundaries to him. He thinks, maybe rightly, that the way to accomplish that is to become famous— or notorious, if that’s easier. Once Joe starts pouring time and money into running for president, and then governor, we can see clearly that this pursuit is entirely self-defeating. But he can’t help himself.

This is put in contrast to Carole Baskin, Bhagavan Antle, and Jeff Lowe— all deviants themselves, but deviants who have carved out areas in which they can exist more comfortably than Joe is capable of. Carole is a victim of abuse who probably murdered her second husband, but she is still capable of joining society as a “normal” person, because she is very very good at erasing the parts of herself that most would see as deviant. Bhagavan is a fucking cult leader, but he plays up his personality and business effectively enough that society is interested in extending itself to him. Jeff Lowe, fascinatingly enough, is one of the most evil, self-serving men you’ll ever see— almost definitely a worse person than Joe— but he’s a straight white man who was born into money. He is able to selectively choose deviance in ways that benefit him. He quite literally commodifies his ability to be deviant in a way that Joe can’t: Joe is just too deviant, too outside the norm— he desperately wants the power and influence that Jeff Lowe seems to have, but is unable to grasp it.

What I appreciate so deeply is that this show doesn’t treat deviance the way a children’s movie would. It doesn’t just say “being born different is great!!”. It says “being born different can be deeply damaging— it can force you into situations that you don’t want to be in, and it can force you to become a person that you don’t want to be”. We understand that this isn’t the fault of the people who were born deviant, it is the fault of the systems that made them the ‘other’. There is SO MUCH in this show about masculinity, femininity, queerness, and class— I could write about it forever.

The last thing I want to say, though, is how perfectly this discussion is echoed with the animals that Joe, Jeff, Bhagavan, and Carole own. These animals are the ultimate symbol of deviance. We know, instinctively, from just one look, that they DO NOT BELONG within our society. Tigers should not be kept like cattle in backyard zoos. We shouldn’t pet them, we shouldn’t feed them expired meat from Walmart. The way each of these people treats their animals is a perfect representation of how they relate to deviance. Bhagavan uses these animals to gain money and influence for himself, and he’s savvy enough to do that in a flashy way— one that society is excited by, and willing to accommodate. Carole gives these animals dignity, but does not breed them, or allow them to be touched— she lets them die naturally. She is willing to responsibly manage the deviance that will inevitably crop up, but her goal is not to celebrate it. Jeff sees these animals as nothing more than objects— something to be bred when convenient, killed when inconvenient, organized in the most efficient way to maximize the amount of money and sex they can bring him.

Joe, characteristically enough, can’t fit into any of these boxes. He wants to care for the animals, but he isn’t equipped to handle the responsibility that it would entail. He wants to commodify them, but he isn’t a good enough businessman. Ultimately, he can only view the animals as an extension of himself— and it’s fitting that those extensions must sometimes be bred, and sometimes be shot, and sometimes be shoved into filthy cages and starved.

And we are reminded, ultimately, that none of this would have been a problem if our society had simply held different values— was structured in different ways. If we could have just left these animals the fuck alone, and let them be tigers.

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tamsong · 4 years

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keefe meta post

(i use the word queer as an umbrella term in this, not aggressively, but if it makes you uncomfortable i recommend skipping out on this one.

this is going to be a Very controversial opinion but i think keefe would be a much more interesting and compelling character if he were gay or otherwise lgbtq+. not because it’s inherently better for him to be gay (though some representation would be nice), but because it would add some interesting nuance to the pre-existing storyline.

i believe that keefe is a little queercoded, even if shannon didn’t intend to do so. here are some examples:

- he has a poor relationship with his family. his dad is verbally abusive to him, and expects him to live up to a standard that does not go along with his personal values or enjoyments, a classic “homophobic parent” trope. as a result, keefe rebels against his dad by becoming a class clown, showing he doesn’t care about status or success if it means he doesn’t get to live authentically. this is a big choice a lot of queer have to make- pretend to be cishet and be safe but unhappy, or come out of the closet and live their truth but also potentially place themselves in great danger.

-keefe gets along better with his mom, but at least in the beginning before gisela skrts off to do evil things, she isn’t very vocal about this and doesn’t stand up to lord cassius much. she wants him to be happy, but isn’t yet willing to go the whole mile and risk her own place. half-assed support from a parent is better than none, but still allows for a kid to be put in dangerous situations. in later books, it’s clear that gisela loves keefe, but goes about this in a very manipulative way, doing things that she thinks will be beneficial for him rather than asking him what he wants.

- if keefe were gay, it would put a lot of the subtext surrounding his family situation into text that is relevant in the modern day environment. we do love fantasy children’s literature that isn’t afraid of addressing real life problems!

- keefe is known for using humor to cope and not being very good about talking about his personal issues. it is well known that gay people are the funniest p- i’m kidding, but if you’re lgbt you’ll know what it’s like. additionally, if someone is queer in a generally homophobic society (or even just in a group where everyone else is cishet) it’s often hard for us to talk about our experiences, either out of fear of rejection, knowing people won’t understand, or not wanting to be a burden.

- keefe is good at art, which is a talent that his dad (who is representative of the bad parts of elven society as a whole) does not find value in and shames keefe for putting effort into it. while the world has gotten better about the existence of queer people as a whole, it still does not value us as an essential part of society, and would rather discourage us from talking about our experiences than acknowledging them as genuine and valuable, as lord cassius treats keefe’s talent in art.

also, here are some reasons that making keefe gay would help the plot of the series as a whole!

- would erase the love triangle entirely, or at least shannon would have to pick a different person. there could be more focus on the actual plot, potentially even shortening the series- i know shannon’s said she lives in fear of having to resolve the triangle. it would also make more room for friendships and familial relationships to be more in the forefront, such as the vacker legacy subplot (the love triangle does not do justice to fitz’s character when he’s relegated to one side of a capitalism-created battle) or dex’s character arc

-this is more personal wish fulfillment than anything else, but it would be totally interesting to see a romantic storyline between keefe and tam- they’re both so similar yet so different and romantic tension would make their interactions even spicier!

the only cons i could think of for this:

- a loss in sales for shannon (which would suck as she deserves only the best)

- an influx of kam, keefex, and kitz shippers, which in itself isnt bad but could lead to some of the fetishization of gay guys that our fandom has largely avoided

let me know what you guys think!! i wanna know if there’s anything i missed, especially in the most recent books. also if you disagree, tell me about that too- i want to see where the differences in our opinions are. thank you for coming to my ted talk and have a good night

#keefe #keefe sencen #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #kotlc analysis #kotlc rant

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