ok I have A Lot of thoughts about the staircase confession (well really about Edwin's whole character arc, but all roads lead to rome) but for now I just wanna say that, yes, I was bracing myself for something to go terribly wrong when I first watched it, and yes, part of me was initially worried its placement might be an uncharacteristically foolish choice made in the name of Drama or Pacing or Making a Compelling Episode of Television but at the expense of narrative sense--
But I wanna say that having taken all that into account, and watched it play out, and sat with it - and honestly become rather transfixed by it - I really think it's a beautifully crafted moment and truly the only way that arc could've arrived at such a satisfying conclusion.
And if I had to pinpoint why I not only buy it but also have come to really treasure it, I'd have to put it down to the fact that it genuinely is a confession, and nothing else.
That moment is an announcement of what Edwin has come to understand about himself, but because it takes the form of a character admitting romantic feelings for such a close friend, I think it can be very easy, when writing that kind of thing, to imbue it with other elements like a plea or a request or even the start of a new relationship that, intentionally or not, would change the shape of the moment and can quickly overshadow what a huge deal the telling is all on its own. But that's not the case here. Since it is only a confession, unaccompanied by anything else, and since we see afterward how it was enough, evidently, to fix the strangeness that had grown between him & Charles, we're forced to understand that it was never Edwin's feelings that were actually making things difficult for him - it was not being able to tell Charles about them. 'Terrified' as he's been of this, Edwin learns that his feelings don't need to either disappear completely or be totally reciprocated in order for him to be able to return to the peace, stability, and security of the relationship with which he defines his existence - and the scale of that relief a) tells us a hell of a lot about Edwin as a character and b) totally justifies the way his declaration just bursts out of him at what would otherwise be such a poorly chosen moment, in my opinion.
Whether or not they are or ever could be reciprocated, Edwin's feelings are definitively proven not to be the problem here - only his potential choice to bottle it up - his repression - is. And where that repression had once been mainly involuntary, a product of what he'd been through, now that he's got this new awareness of himself, if he still fails to admit what he's found either to himself or to the one person he's so unambiguously close with, then that repression will be by his own choice and actions.
And he won't do that. Among other things, he's coming into this scene having just (unknowingly) absolved the soul of his own school bully and accidental killer by pointing out a fact that is every bit as central to his self-discovery as anything about his sexuality or his attraction to Charles is: the idea that "If you punish yourself, everywhere becomes Hell"
So narratively speaking, of course it makes sense that Edwin literally cannot get out of Hell until he stops punishing himself - and right now, the thing that's torturing him is something he has control over. It's not who he is or what he feels, but what he chooses to do with those feelings that's hurting him, and he's even already made the conscious choice to tell Charles about them, he was just interrupted. But now that they're back together and he's literally in the middle of an attempt to escape Hell, there is absolutely no way he can so much as stop for breath without telling Charles the truth. Even the stopping for breath is so loaded - because they're ghosts, they don't need to breathe, but also they're in Hell, so the one thing they can feel is pain, however nonsensical. And Edwin certainly is in pain. But whether he knows what he's about to do or not when he says he 'just needs a tick,' a breather is absolutely not what's gonna give him enough relief to keep climbing - it's fixing that other hurt, though, that will.
Like everything else in that scene, there's a lot of layers to him promising Charles "You don't have to feel the same way, I just needed you to know" - but I don't think that means it isn't also true on a surface level. It's the act of telling Charles that matters so much more than whatever follows it, and while that might have gone unnoticed if anything else major had happened in the same conversation, now we're forced to acknowledge its staggering and singular importance for what it is. The moment is well-earned and properly built up to, but until we see it happen in all its wonderful simplicity, and we see the aftermath (or lack thereof, even), we couldn't properly anticipate how much of a weight off Edwin's shoulders merely getting to share the truth with Charles was going to be, why he couldn't wait for a better, safer opportunity before giving in to that desire, or how badly he needed to say it and nothing else - and I really, really love the weight that act of just being honest, seen, and known is given in their story/relationship.
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What is your opinion on Babdick/dickbabs? I personally hate it because it doesn’t look like a healthy relationship especially when Barbara doesn’t seem to love dick all that much
It's not and she doesn't and I don't like them together at all.
Oracle Barbara was mostly fine but I CANNOT STAND Batgirl Barbara and Dick.
Take this comic for instance, Dick and Barbara have broken up (as they always do) and Dick is thinking about it and being sad about their relationship. He calls Barbara to say sorry as he always does
DC's Crimes of Passion
But Barbara's feelings on the breakup?
DC's Crimes of Passion
When Barbara says she's scared of needing someone, I can totally understand that. It's a immense feeling and perfectly acceptable reason but-
"I don't know what to call us. I don't even really know what I want us to be. Or what we're supposed to be."
Really?
This isn't the sound of a girl in love, this is the sound of a woman stringing along a man.
She doesn't want to be together with Dick but she's doesn't want to be away from him. She loves him but can't stand the idea of loving him.
And truthfully? I get this too - because I almost did it myself. A guy I'm good friends with asked me out on a date and to be honest I didn't even feel the same about him that way. I was just friends with him and when he asked me I thought about accepting. He's super kind, good looking, and smart and he's an absolute catch. I thought about saying yes - not because I had a crush on him or anything, but I just wanted to be in love. But I didn't because that's a terrible thing for me to do. I didn't have any attraction for him romantically but if I started going out with him just because I wanted someone that would super, duper crappy of me. He's an awesome guy and he deserves way more than that. I didn't want to string him along. It would make me an awful person if I had done it.
To go out with them just because I wanted someone.
DC's Crimes of Passion
It's the constant back and forth between that I can't stand.
Nightwing (2011) Annual 1
What. Timing.
I genuinely don't understand what's she trying to get at here. I thought love was about working through the hardest times in your life together, achieving successes together, and always being there for each other. I didn't think love was about falling apart during every crisis big or small. I didn't think it was about breaking up when you felt like it and not bothering to resolve the issues that caused you to break up in the first place.
Later on in the comic, Barbara talks about talking it out later and goes to meet Dick but he had to leave cause he got called for a case.
Really. Now it's on the both of them here. They can't be together because then it's going to be a long distance relationship?
Frankly Dick in a semi and Barbara in a vest is...is there some stereotype about trucker families not working out that I'm missing here? what is this.
That's another thing that bothers me about Dickbabs. They never resolve the issue that caused them to break up in the first place. Sometimes I'm reading them and all of sudden Barbara's like "we should stop seeing each other," and I'm like why??? There's literally nothing going on??
Barbara cares a lot about Dick. She cares about his safety and sometimes his emotional wellbeing but she doesn't love him for who he is. She loves the idea of him but not him.
I swear I used to root so hard for them but it's exhausting to like them together when Dick is dumping buckets of love over Barbara's head while she's holding up an umbrella. And then she takes the umbrella and stabs it through his heart.
She can be super toxic when it comes to Dick.
Nightwing (1996) Issue #86
She literally blames Dick for trying to make her happy. In the comic he's doing acrobatics all over the place, fixing her computer so it's easier for her, and generally being overly cheerful for her so she'll forget her pain and become happy at least for a moment and in turn-she literally Gaslights him??
"You can't stop reminding me of what I once was. You can't stop flaunting your own health. You still think you're immortal, Dick, and you're not."
Are you for real?! If someone is walking and you're in a wheelchair, you want them to be in one too because you feel sad about yourself?
And the constant way she talks down to him.
But even this I can sort of understand. Let's throw the blame on Dick here for a split second even though it's not his fault. Barbara is recently put into a wheelchair so she's depressed. Dick is being overly helpful. He wants to do everything for her so he can make her life easier, to alleviate her pain and she's tired of that. That's understandable and honestly they did need a little break here so Dick could turn down his enthusiasm and let Barbara be the strong woman she's known to be. BUT WHY IS SHE BLAMING HIM?? Just tell him you want some time apart to figure out yourself without throwing the blame and breaking the heart of your boyfriend who loves you so much.
Dick here reminded me of family members after their child has been diagnosed with cancer. They want to do everything they can but they don't know how so they keep smiling through the pain and being as positive as possible.
Here's my main issue with Dickbabs. Writers are incapable of writing the two of them together in a way that lifts both of them up.
They got it into their heads that to make Barbara look smart, they have to make Dick look dumb. That to make Barbara look skillful, they have to make Dick look incompetent.
But hey it's unfair of me to use Nightwing comics only (DC crimes of passion isn't a nightwing comic but the point still stands) to talk about Dickbabs.
I'm not saying all Dickbabs is bad. There's a couple that are good like this one
Batgirls Issue #8
They're so cute!!! They look so hot together too
but. Writers as always are incapable of writing Dick as a strong independent character that relies on Barbara.
Batgirls Issue #8
Sorry, Dick - who has beaten Batman, destroyed Justice Leagues, runs superhero teams with some of the strongest metas in the world and has beaten them without breaking a sweat - just lets himself get kicked and punched around for fun? Are you trying to tell me that Dick only fights because people insult Barbara? I can't believe I'm saying this but Tom Taylor has written better than this.
Their love can be so one sided.
She abuses Dick as an emotional outlet for her anger and resentment.
Nightwing (1996) Issue #87
Context: She's blaming him for being sexually harassed by Catalina. Catalina earlier broke into their date night, beat Barbara up in the wheelchair, kissed Dick and kneed him to surprise him before Dick beat her off Barbara.
And not only is she busy victim blaming him, she's also busy calling him incompetent. And Dick's rightfully mad that as a vigilante of nearly two decades she's telling him he's pathetic.
And what does Bruce have to do with anything here? From the Titans, we know that Dick's greatest fear is turning into Batman. They fight so hard to protect him from it, and what does Barbara do?
"Congratulations. You've managed to turn into Bruce."
This makes me the most mad though-
"Bludhaven was managing a long time before you got here."
The anger I felt was incandescent. Why do people fight crime Barbara? I guess Bruce should just call it a night and take Batman for a nap forever. Why was Batgirl created if Gotham was managing before Batgirl even existed? In one sentence, she's managed to trash the multiverses of superheroes.
No wonder Wally wants Kori and Dick together. Barbara's mad at him for protecting her against Catalina. If Dick had just kept sitting and waiting for the bodyguards in that fancy place then Barbara wouldn't be severely injured. But oops. His bad.
After he punches the board she gets mad and leaves and Dick's emotional well-being goes on a downward spiral.
I have other issues with them because Dick's relationship with Barbara diminishes his canonical relationships with the superhero community.
Again - writers' problem.
So...complicated. They could be amazing if written right but right now I'm wavering between being indifferent to them and disliking them. They should seriously just be friends instead.
I need to clarify something first. Barbara Gordon herself is fine. She's cool. But when she's with Dick? The way writers write them as well as her own personality comes out in the worst, most toxic ways.
And that's not even getting into what writers did to Kori's personality and Dick's morality. They just dashed decades of Teen Titans comics to make both of them look evil.
That's not even touching the atrocity of their Dark Nights: Death Metal scene or the way Barbara victim blamed Dick for having amnesia.
Batgirl (2016) Issue #50
This is so unfair. She can victim-blame Dick for having amnesia because she's mad at bruce but if Dick even yelled at her when he's mad at Bruce, it would be an International Incident in the fandom. Where's the equality in this?
I know Barbara is pretty mad at other things in this scene but she has a tendency to use Dick as an emotional outlet
Batgirl (2011) Issue #3
She's literally beating him up because she's upset at losing her fight against some villain and thinking about her own insecurities. He just dropped in to show her some love and help.
If Batgirl Barbara only acted this way in Nightwing comics, then I would be inclined to say that the writers have a preference against her. BUT she's acts like this in the Nightwing comics, the Batgirl comics, the Batman comics, the general DC comics, and practically every comic that has them together. Given that DC is rooting for Dickbabs and trashing Kori for it, there is literally no reason for her to be acting this way. And the thing is, Dick's other relationships have been fantastic. Not just the big ones, but the minor ones too that people forget have been full of love. So why can't they write Dickbabs that way?
I didn't even know how bad they were together until recently. I just kinda glossed over all the toxic components of their relationship because, you know, "girlbossing" right? But there's only so many plot holes you can sell to your readers before they start questioning the legitimacy of your product. Thus my feelings about them have changed.
This being said, I don't like them romantically but I love them as friends. When Barbara is just working with dick as crimefighting partners or friends, they make an awesome team and they're so fun to read. I just can't stand them together as lovers anymore. And really, even their good Batgirl/Nightwing lover moments just seem like it's them being good friends.
They have the potential to be great.
Nightwing (2016) Annual #1
Batgirl (2016) Issue #16
But usually they're just not.
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