#<- because i didn't read the actual odyssey

[svetochey]

fanart i drew of odysseus

#odysseus #epic the musical #<- because i didn't read the actual odyssey #yet #update i did read it it was great now tackling the illiad

[avelera]

thesis about the sea peoples you say? may i request an infodump about the sea peoples?

Heya!

So, basically in college (undergraduate) I got really obsessed with the questions around the Collapse of the Aegean Bronze Age, mostly because I wanted to set my big Magnum Opus historical fiction novel in that time, and the deeper I dug into the rabbit hole the more it appeared that no one, absolutely no one, actually knows why the civilizations around the Mediterranean all fell from a state of pretty sophisticated internationally-trading civilizations to literal Dark Ages (all except for Egypt which was substantially weakened and never really recovered), all at once around 1200-1100 BCE.

The Sea Peoples are the names of the only contemporary (Egyptian) account we have that names who might have been responsible if this collapse was due to an invasion. It's a popular theory because a viking-style invasion is a much sexier reason for a civilization to collapse so we all gather around it like moths to flame. But the thing is, there's a lot of contradictory evidence for and against and shading that hypothesis.

Suffice to say, literally no actually knows what happened and almost every answer comes up, "Some combination of these things, probably?"

But what makes the Collapse even more interesting from a modern perspective is that if there was a historical Trojan War (and I think there was) as fictionalized in the Iliad and the Odyssey (and Song of Achilles, for the Tumbrlistas), then it would have taken place within a generation of the entire civilization that launched the Trojan War crumbling to dust.

So like, if you're Telemachus, your dad Odysseus fights in the Trojan War, some even manage to get home, and then like... everything goes to shit. Catastrophically. And doesn't recover for 400 years.

Seriously, they lost the written word, like how to actually write things down and read them and it took 400 years to get it back. That's how fucked shit got during the Collapse of the Bronze Age.

So my thesis was asking: what if these two things were related? What if the Trojan War either led to the Collapse or it was part of the Collapse or it was a result of the Collapse? Because the timeline is so unknown and muddled that it really could be any of those and again, that's if the Trojan War isn't entirely fictional (which I don't think it is, but many academics disagree, it used to be a whole thing up until Schliemann dug it up, and many doubted it was ever a historical event even after that.)

Ok, so at the risk of writing 75 pages on this again, let me just say:

My conclusion (more of a hypothesis proposal ultimately since there are so many gaps in our knowledge) was that the Trojan War took place before the Collapse of the Bronze Age. But, it might have been launched in response to a wider breakdown in trades routes and resources, causing the Greeks to launch the campaign basically as a bid to replenish their own coffers because they were getting squeezed by what they didn't know was the first rumblings of a global domino effect.

Therefore, since taking out Troy didn't solve those larger trends and forces, they all went home and then got slammed by the REAL problem, which was all the people who had been displaced from further away by this rolling drought or invasion or whatever that was disrupting these delicate international trade routes.

But the Greeks might have been part of the Sea Peoples too! Our only record of the Sea Peoples is from the Egyptians in a highly propagandistic text which makes them sound like this big fearsome foe but that might have been because saying, "We slaughtered a bunch of desperate refugees at our border who were looking for shelter," didn't sound as cool. If the Greeks (or Achaeans or Ahhiyawa) got swept up in this slow-rolling collapse/displacement of people, then they absolutely could have been among those refugees who crashed against the shores of Egypt.

A lot of my evidence was based on looking at how Troy was sacked (it was stripped literally down the nails and there was a lot of evidence of a long-term siege, like what we read about in the Iliad) vs. how Mycenae (Agamemnon's city) or Pylos (King Nestor's city) was sacked, where they were burned and stuff was stolen but they weren't stripped, it looks more like a standard looting hit-and-run type thing. Which led me to believe that it was different turmoil that rocked Mycenae and Pylos than what led to the sacking of Troy, despite the fact these things happened within about 20 years of each other. (Helen being a made-up reason for a resource-driven war would only be the oldest trick in the book, as far as propaganda goes, after all.)

But really, the craziest detail I'll leave you with is: we just don't know! And then it gets weirder. Because the Hittites fell at the same time so the Hittites scholars say, "Nah, the Sea Peoples weren't Hittites, they were probably Greeks." And the GREEK scholars say, "It wasn't us, it was probably the Hittites or someone else. " and the EGYPTIAN scholars say, "Yeah it was someone north of Egypt, maybe the Hittites or the Greeks." and the LEVANT scholars say, "It wasn't from the Levant, we know what was going on there, it has to be from somewhere else."

Literally every single possible source of the Sea Peoples has the scholars who specialize in that location saying it's not them and it must be the guy next door.

It's maddening!

And then there's a big ol' gap around Bulgaria and the Black Sea because, oh yeah, the Soviet Union forbade archaeology in those areas to quash any local pride so those places that were behind the Iron Curtain are decades behind on scholarship that would allow them to say, "Oh hey, it was actually us! Yeah, the invaders came from Bulgaria and got pushed down by a famine." or something to that effect.

We also have some histories from the time saying that the Sons of Heracles returned not long after the Trojan War to lay Greece to waste! And it's really evocative and sounds like it fits what we've got of all these burned cities that happened right after Troy fell! Except that's in doubt now too!

The latest theory is that it was climate change that led to a massive drought. You can read about it in the latest and most popular book on the subject, 1177 BCE which I highly recommend because if it had existed when I wrote my thesis, I wouldn't have had to write it.

But I disagree with the conclusion! Or rather, I'm skeptical. Because very decade, the problems of the day have been hypothesized as being the cause of the Collapse. Like, in the 60s, there was a theory that maybe it was internal strife around a labor strike, like the French Revolution. And y'know when there's a world war, they think it's an invasion. And there was a theory that it was 'cuz of an earthquake (I think that one is nonsense, Mediterranean civilizations famously bounce back quickly from earthquakes.) And now that climate change is on our mind, I'm a little weary to see that it's the new theory because it feels way too much like we're just projecting our problems onto this giant question mark.

Was climate an aspect! I think so! I think it might have contributed to the break down in trade routes that made everyone in the Mediterranean really stressed out and hostile and warlike and led to a lot of displacement. I'm not sure if it's the only reason though and I think the book just kinda reiterates everyone else saying, "I think it was this but in the end, we just don't know, and it was probably a lot of things." which we've known for ages so it's just repeating all the same conclusions. *sigh*

... Like I said, I wrote my thesis on this so yeah, I could go on for a while lol.

#ancient history #bronze age #collapse of the bronze age #sea peoples #lots of generalizations here for brevity so don't jump down my throat if you are also familiar with this era plz

[olivsie]

Something I like about epic the musical is that it Gives it's changes to the original text an actual Purpose

( The first couple paragraphs are basically a rant regarding retellings. If you only want to hear about epic Skip to paragraph 4)

1. I am a bit annoyed by the lack of. Understanding as to why RETELLINGS aren't the most historicaly accurate things in the world. Sorry to break this to you, but that's both just how they work and I would guess how they reach success. Ancient Greece is a much different culture than our own, And most of us would be terrified to actually live back then. When you are Trying to create content That is based on ancient Greece And you want it to be successful/ At least reach a wide, and notably, MODERN audience. You're likely going to have to take some creative liberty And change a few things. Don't get me wrong, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE RETELLINGS KNOWING THAT FACT ( Me personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Miller's novels Even though I do like epic) BUT IT IS SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF. And because of that I don't think I would ever expect a retelling to be perfectly accurate And I don't. I had interest in mythology LONG before epic the musical But I didn't actually read the Odyssey until getting into epic. I did not expect it To be just like the musical, I knew Odysseus was going to be much more of an asshole, along with other characters. The odyssey and epic are different pieces of media to me And I am not less of a mythology nerd for liking epic ( Though I will admit that sometimes I take tiny little fun facts of mythology And like to think of them in the context of epic, but that's just for fun.)

2. The Only time being a fan of retellings is wrong as if you genuinely believe they are perfectly accurate And refuse to listen to anything else ( Which has definitely happened, And mythology nerds have the right to be annoyed at that)

3. Some people only like to consume real mythology media, Others like both real mythology and retellings, Others only like to engage with retellings (I would hope they have the self-awareness to know It's not real mythology, From what I've seen some do and some don't, Unfortunately)

4. Ok. now on to what the title of this long ass rant says

I like that epic the musical Retells the story, Not only to both cater to modern audience But Also with its OWN purpose of man versus monster.

Obviously, this is not the point of the original text. Mythos Odysseus does not give a single fuck About the stuff that epic odysseus does. I don't know why the creator Decided to rewrite it this way, (If he's ever said why let me know) But I would assume he wanted to make something about the oddessy And this was simply a very creative way to Translate that for modern audience.

I like this because, yes, holy damn. It does have changes from the original text. But it's not JUST changing it. It's changing it with a purpose

It feels reminiscent of some kind of Dramatic play. the way that epic characterizes.

Polites' kind nature is Representative of the Concept of being merciful Represented in his lines such as " This life is amazing when you greet it with open arms" /"There is so much guilt inside your heart, So why not replace it?"

While in contrast you have eurylochus with more ruthlessness and cautious nature, this is Found in some of his lines such as "You rely on wit, and people die on it" /"we don't know what's ahead" / "I say we strike first. We don't have time to waste so lets raid the place-" /"Let's just cut our losses, You and I and let's run"

And then you have Odysseus, the man/monster. The first act of this Musical is his internal struggle With what He should be On that scale. And the other characters Represent this struggle in the song monster

" Is the cyclops struck with gilt when he kills, is he up in the middle of the night? Or does he end my men to avenge his friend and then Sleep knowing he has done him right?

When the witch turns men to pigs to protect her nymphs, is she going insane? Or did she learn to be colder when she got older and now she saves them the pain?

When a God comes down and makes a Fleet drown Is he scared that he's doing something wrong? Or does he keep us in check So we must respect him and now no one dares to piss him off"

He then Applies this to himself

" Does a soldier use a wooden horse to kill sleeping trojans cause he is vile? Or does he throw away his remorse and save more lives with guile?"

And this marks his turning point of deciding that Ruthlessness It's ultimately worth it if it means Getting home, as aeolus says "The end Always justifies the means"

It's in my opinion, a very creative way to go about retelling a myth. Is it accurate? Absolutely not. For example, circe (From what we know) is not protecting When she turns men into pigs, For all we know, she could just do it because Shits and giggles.

Her character and most others in epic is changed from the original. But it's not ONLY changing for the sake of apeling to the modern Western audience and being successful like Many other retellings. It is also and mainly changing for the sake of influencing the plot that Jorge Rivera herrans crafted For the sake of Retelling epic. It is creative and I enjoy it despite knowing it's not accurate.

#epic the musical #odysseus #the oddyssey #tagamemnon #the iliad #greek mythology #again you do not need to like epic the musical or any other retellings #you are allowed to only like greek mythology itself #as a history enjoyer i understand the frustration and think its COMPLETELY valid to be annoyed when someone uwu's a figure #hell i would be annoyed if someone did that to the EPIC THE MUSICAL version of odysseus #he's still an asshole he's still a killer and a liar in epic just a lot more guilty about it then he would be in the oddessy #if all retelling fans had self awareness that its just a retelling and didn't “soft boi” either myth or retelling #i think we'd all be much happier

[lexi-the-demon-69]

My CRK hot takes (character edition)

Yeah, you knew this was bound to happen. So, here are my Cookie Run Kingdom hot takes! Please do not read beyond this point if you are easily offended by someone else's opinion because I do not feel like listening to some of you guys whine in the comments.

So, here they are lol:

Ok, now let me explain my takes! I couldn't really fit everything into the comic, because they're just too small and I don't think I can do it justice. So, here are my explanations!

1.) "Black Pearl is an overrated character and didn't deserve to be Cookie of the Year."

I honestly do not understand why she’s so popular, other than that her design is pretty and she’s VERY good skill-wise. Other than that… there’s nothing really that I like about her. Don’t get me wrong, she’s not criminally offensive compared to other characters, but all she is to me is a simple rehash of Dark Choco Cookie’s character, but worse. If anything, Sherbert Cookie should’ve been Cookie of the Year and not her! He’s an amazingly written character compared to her and I actually feel very sorry for, unlike Black Pearl. The only reason why she got Cookie of the Year is that she’s pretty. That’s it.

2.) "Clotted Cream can go fuck himself."

I despise this character with a passion. I also do not understand the appeal of Clotted Cream. There is just something about him that I just do not like! The moment I laid eyes on him in Cookie Odyssey, I immediately thought he was the man behind the slaughter and I feel like that was also half of the fandom at the time when Cookie Odyssey was released. Do I even need to mention the scene where he confronts the ancients with Dark Enchantress Cookie’s identity? I mean, yes, it should’ve been said, but holy fuck he could NOT shut his fucking mouth! Besides, HE started the whole damn thing! If anything, Dark Cacao should AT LEAST knock some fucking sense into him. I would not be even mad. Also, he’s fucking annoying to me. Why does he not have a British accent?! WHY?!-

3.) "LicoPom is a good ship"

I stand by this and I shall explain myself now. Both Pomegranate and Licorice Cookie are shitty people and they both treat Dark Choco like garbage. The ONLY reason why people say this ship is bad is because Pomegranate is shitty towards Choco. Y'all, you DO realize Licorice also uses Dark Choco as a punching bag too, right? Not only does Licorice throw Dark Choco under the bus by mentioning him to get him in trouble, but ALSO calls him names. Not to mention that Licorice is treated the best by Pomegranate, compared to the others, and you can see that they care about each other (at least, Licorice does, at the end of episode 14, where he tells her that she's hurt and they need to retreat.) They deserve each other, honestly.

4.) "The Heroes of the Dark Cacao Update is THE BEST CRK Update."

Do I really need to explain why? I mean, this update is CARRIED by its story ALONE! Not to mention we got Dark Cacao: One of the BEST written characters in the entire game, Affogato Cookie, Caramel Arrow Cookie: Dark Choco's wife/j and certified Girlboss, and we got to learn more about Dark Choco Cookie as a character! Whoever says this update is bad is a liar-

5.) "Sea Fairy is a mid character"

I don't think I need to explain why. We know very little about her, even after the Mermaid update we only know that she's connected to the Mermaids and that's kinda it. I mean, I don't hate her at all, but I wish we had a little more info about her.

6.) "Pudding Cookie should be introduced into Kingdom for the next Krima update"

Ok, not much of a hot take but more of an opinion. I mean, c'mon! Look at her!! We need an update where she's introduced along with other Christmas Cookies with their own little story, like in ovenbreak! Please, Devsisters, do it-

----

Ok, that's all of my hot takes I have so far. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna lose some of my followers for these takes- (thank you for 400 followers btw!! It really means a lot!!) but I say it's worth it. If any of you guys have any hot takes of your own, please let me know in the comments or ask box! I'd love to see them!

#cookie run #cookie run kingdom #dark cacao cookie #licorice cookie #clotted cream cookie #sea fairy cookie #pudding cookie #dark choco cookie #licopom #licorice cookie x pomegranate cookie #black pearl cookie #sherbet cookie #hot takes

[jamisonwritestf2trash]

Mercs favourite books? Doesn't have to be written in the time the game is set ofc

The TF2 Mercs Favorite Books!

teehee and all that, I love this prompt. Thank you for sending it, Anon! We're also going to have to assume half of them can even read. I kinda stuck to the classics just for funsies. Also, I added their favorite quotes from the books!

But, anyway, here we go!

————————————————————

Spoilers, maybe? Probably not.

————————————————————

Demo- The Anarchist Cookbook (William Powell)

Now, let's be honest. This man went through the table of contents like a checklist. I personally think Demo and Soldier took a particular liking to the entry, "Converting a shotgun into a grenade launcher." They're just so silly like that. Anyways, once he started making mustard gas, the other mercs decided that it would be a good idea for the book to go missing. Little did they know he had eight separate copies of this book. He was very proud when he finished the book. Everyone was concerned at the new horde of weapons and drugs Demo had, until he offered to share, then they were thrilled.

“If a man is to be a man, a free spirit unto himself, he must arm himself not only with weapons but with ideals and concepts he is willing to die for.”

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Engie- Charlotte's Web (E. B. White)

Hear me out! Even though this man has eleven PhDs, he doesn't like to read long drawn out novels. He doesn't like most of the "classics" or even most new books. Don't get me wrong, he loves to read. He just doesn't get why books can't be simple. He read Charlotte's Web when he was a kid, and it just kind of stuck with him. It was one of the only books he read that didn't really feel like a chore to read. He finds himself rereading it frequently. You'll catch him reading it to Pyro too, I personally think him and Pyro read books together a lot.

“I don’t understand it, and I don’t like what I don’t understand.”

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Heavy- The Odyssey (Homer)

Would you believe me if I told you this man is a huge fan of Greek mythology? He has no clue why, he was never interested in it when he was younger, or even up until he read the read The Odyssey. He picked it up from a library, it had a really pretty gold cover, so he read the description and figured why not? When I tell you this man was so obsessed with this book while he was reading it for the first time. He just like, wouldn't stop reading it? Like the other mercs were slightly worried that he was reading all the time. Because, sure, he probably reads more than the others, but this was excessive even for him. He loves the escape it provides, he likes the adventurer, he likes the fantasy. He just really loves this book.

“For a friend with an understanding heart is worth no less than a brother”

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Medic-The Tell Tale Heart (Edgar Allan Poe)

Are we really super surprised that Medic is a fan of The Tell Tale Heart? He's also just a fan of Poe in general, but alas, I will put that away and focus on the book itself. Medic loves reading the main characters' descent into madness. He also loves the idea of someone who seemingly has a lack of guilt be riddled with it, though a different medium than actually feeling guilty. (i hope that made sense) He's just a huge fan of artists using their mediums to inflict psychological torture on their creations. Also lets be honest if Medic ever went fully insane he'd be like the main character from the book.

“Now this is the point. You fancy me a mad. Madmen know nothing. But you should have seen me. You should have seen how wisely I proceeded...”

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Scout- Romeo and Juliet (William Shakespeare)

HEAR ME OUT AGAIN! This man doesn't read, he has ADHD and dyslexia, how can you expect him to? But! When he was in high school it was required reading and this man struggled with like the first page, but it was really important for his grade so he tried literally everything to read it, and once he actually found out a way to be able to read the book, he was hooked, as weird as that seems. He thinks old English is hilarious, and actually liked the romance, he cried when Romeo and Juliet died. He can't tell you why he loves it so much though, it just stuck in his brain and never left. He even went out and bought his own copy of the book, it remains hidden as to not alert the other mercs to his love of it, reads it once a month.

"I defy you, stars."

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Sniper- The Outsiders (S. E. Hinton)

So, I know this is Snipers headcanon, but..... I gotta talk about Scout really quick. So Scout has read The Outsiders, and he loved it! (Not as much as Romeo and Juliet, but enough to also have bought the book.) So one day, he's talking to Sniper about books, and is utterly shocked at the idea that not everyone has read The Outsiders, so he literally reads this book with such conviction to Sniper, (Sniper claimed he would read it on his own but Scout know he absolutely would not.) So Sniper begrudgingly listens to the book, and actually finds himself drawn into the story.

“He sure put things into words good.”

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Spy- Dracula (Bram Stoker)

Spy would be a vampire if he could be, wouldn't ever admit that though. Okay I'm half kidding. I think Spy really likes this book for the drama of it all, the fact that it never stays the same for long, the way it borders on actual horror, but is too dramatic to actually be scary, he just ugh, he loves it so much. I think he first found the book by it just being in his home when he was a kid. His mom just left it sitting somewhere and he just went and picked it up because he was bored and just started reading. I think he was originally scared by the book, probably cried the first time he read it. Then years later, he just remembered the book that traumatized him as a kid and he was like, it can't be that bad, I'll read it again to prove younger me was a coward. So he reads it and just falls in love with the book.

"I am longing to be with you and by the sea, where we can talk together freely and build our castles in the air."

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Soldier- Pride and Prejudice (Jane Austen)

Uh, so, do I need to put a hear me out for the third time? So I already headcanon that he likes Jane Austen, I'm so torn between him actually understanding and grasping hidden meanings and deep plot point and him just smiling and nodding along to the silly drama unfolding. Maybe both? His mom actually read it to him when he was younger, because it was her favorite book. The memories of his mom talking about and reading the book also contributes to the reason he likes the book so much. He has his mom's worn copy of the book and loves it. He'll reread it at least twice a month, always thinking about the first time he was introduced to it. Loves everything about the book.

"There is a stubbornness about me that never can bear to be frightened at the will of others. My courage always rises at every attempt to intimidate me."

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Pyro- Alice in Wonderland (Lewis Carroll)

Dont get them started with all the things they love about this book. If they could talk, they'd rant for hours. Who am I kidding they still rant for hours even though no one can understand them. They love the whimsy and insanity of Wonderland. They love the Cheshire cat and the Mad Hatter. They read this book every day. It's not even just their favorite anymore. It's the only book to ever exist 😭 On days when Pyro isn't able to read the book, they beg Engie to read it to them. Engie doesn't mind. He loves to see Pyro get all happy when he agrees.

“Imagination is the only weapon in the war with reality.”

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So that took forever to churn out for some reason, maybe because I had to actually remember reading some of these books and actually read others 😭 Sorry it's not super long or detailed! I tried not to spoil the contents of the books.

Regardless, it was fun to do, and I think I'm finally back in the swing of things! I feel more motivated, uh tons of asks came in after this sooooo expect lots of uploads after this, I think I have at least six asks right now?

#tf2 #team fortress 2 #tf2 headcanons #team fortress headcanons #tf2 hcs #tf2 demoman #tf2 engineer #tf2 heavy #tf2 medic #tf2 scout #tf2 sniper #tf2 spy #tf2 soldier #tf2 pyro

[writings-of-a-hufflepuff]

Odyssey - an opinion on Odysseus

Tw: reference to sexual assault, coercision, rape in abstract terms as themes.

Currently reading the Odyssey for the first time and there are 2 interpretations it feels like you can make with Odysseus and his intereactions with characters like Calypso.

He's an unloyal twat who willingly sleeps with everyone woman he can (I feel like this seems to be the most popular female oriented take from what I know of a lot of modern retellings)

That actually, Odysseus has very little choice. The women he sleeps with are goddesses who entrap him in someway and the reality is that his one consistent goal is to get back to Penelope, the clever wife he loves. In effect Odysseus pretty much is being coerced and forced into these sexual relationships. Take Calypso for example, he can't kill her, can't leave, can't persuade her to let him go. He spends the years he's there crying, sobbing, desperate to leave but lays in her bed at night when she asks him to. This to me doesn't seem like a man who wants to be doing that, wants to be betraying his wife, but instead a man who has little choice. Admittedly as well, it's made clear that the goddesses (Calypso and Circe) have a sort of magic when it comes to coercing and getting people to do what they want and it's made clear that Calypso's goal is to have Odysseus stay as her husband forever. The moment he has a chance to leave, after Hermes forces Calypso's hand, he does so, refusing to stay and turning down immortality and by all accounts one of the most beautiful creatures on the planet. There are multiple women, mortal and immortal, in the books who are described as desiring Odysseus and as extremely beautiful. The immortal he sleeps with, but the mortal he does not despite the opportunities afforded him. This to me suggests he only sleeps with the immortal ones because he has very little real choice, who is he to go against a goddess? I personally believe that if he had a real choice, he would have been celibate for those 20 years until he returned home.

I think it's really easy to judge Odysseus at face value, that he's a cheat and liar and that he didn't have to do these things. But to me, my personal interpretation (which is what it is, you can have a different one and that's fine!) is that this man, this highly intelligent man, adores his wife, wants to be back home, but has very little choice. That at best he sleeps with these goddesses knowing that it will enable his survival and at worst he's literally forced through the coercive nature that is a goddess and her powers. It doesn't seem to me, especially with Calypso, that he wants to be there, that he really wants her or cares for her or desires her, it seems like a motion, something he has to do because he's forced to. This man spends his entire time crying and I suspect if he could have he would have killed her, but who can kill a goddess? A daughter of Atlas? Certainly not him.

It strikes me as well, that if he really were that much of a rake, then the mortal women he comes across who are described as beautiful and desiring him, he would also sleep with or even marry and stay with. But he doesn't.

It may be an unpopular interpretation, but I actually really like Odysseus and I personally believe he has little choice in these flawed actions and that in reality he's a victim, I don't believe Homer puts it forth as some sort of romantic ideal or the hero being rewarded.

Obviously, you don't have to agree. You can have your own opinion and that's fine.

#That being said I've only just got past Circe so maybe there's other parts of the story I haven't gotten to yet #but I'm a penelope/odysseus stan and I 'm tempted to rewrite the odyssey with odysseus very clearly a victim #it doesn't feel like he's this rake that people put him as in my opinion #the odyssey #odysseus #odysseus/penelope

[dootznbootz]

"Ithaka by Adele Gaaras" AKA. I got Mindboggled by an Odyssey-inspired novel, get Boggled with me.

THis is just a little vent!! Do not harass this author or people who like this book! I'm not sharing this to necessarily hate on it but just wanted to share because...Mindboggle. (Also please note I have not read the book all the way through. BECAUSE OF SAID MINDBOGGLE. As I don't think it's good to "hate-read")

Also note, that the author says "it's not a version of Homer nor a retelling of the Odyssey, but a novel written under the influence of stories that I first read as a young child and that I've loved ever since."

Found this book in the "discarded" box at the library, probably should've taken that as a sign and since it was for free and no one else had taken it, I thought I'd grab it!

And I got excited because the book is supposed to take place during the years Odysseus is away and it's PENELOPE'S perspective. Penelope raising Telemachus and cute toddler moments? Her, Anticlea, Laertes, (Maybe even Ctimene!) trying to cheer each other up as a family? Her ruling? So many cool things to explore!

But then I started to read and it was okay at first... But it skipped 13 years, which saddened me as, like I said, I wanted "young mother and child bonding together" But I went along with it.

But then there were other moments I didn't really care for. Weird "bad mother-in-law" Anticlea, ENOUGH WITH THAT. It happens to Demeter already! Stop it! Penelope says that she'll be a mean mother-in-law someday as well as "No one will be good enough for Telemachus" (???), Euryclea has a granddaughter who is the "main character", has AGAMEMNON be the one to put Telemachus in front of the plow >:( and a couple other moments that felt off so to see if this was "worth the read", I went ahead and went to the end as I won't lie I really wanted the "Reunion moment" 🥹

And here comes the Mindboggle.

Penelope has an affair.

She has an affair... WITH FUCKING LEODES!!!

THAT'S THE GUY WHO BEGS FOR HIS LIFE BEFORE GETTING BEHEADED BY ODYSSEUS.

Honestly?? Like, I know it's supposed to be a "feminist" story. (says so on the reviews on the back) You never know with those if they're gonna villainize the male characters. I sadly was already expecting the whole "Even though text from the Odyssey states otherwise, Odysseus is clearly a womanizer"😮‍💨BUT AN AFFAIR?! WHAT IS FEMINIST ABOUT AN AFFAIR?! AND WITH LEODES?!?! WHY NOT MAKE A NEW CHARACTER?! A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON? Who's actually cool?

The worst part is? Odysseus is so fucking in love, as he should be. You would expect him to be "bad" to make her affair "okay". Especially as it kind of makes it out like he had "affairs" when it's known to someone with reading comprehension that he was SA'ed.

But he's complimenting her constantly, even as a beggar, and dotes on her and respects her. This novel ALSO makes Odysseus "nicer" and "polite" in an "I don't want to kill all these men but it's what I have to do". Which No! Let that man be PISSED. Get tf away from his wife and child! He can be an asshole and still adore his family!

This is supposed to be her introspecting during the morning after. Not explicit in any way but giving heads up anyways.

[...] she could not prevent herself from thinking of Leodes as Odysseus kissed her mouth and her hair and the soft places behind her ears. "Is this hard for you, wife? Is it strange? There's no hurry...I'll be gentle. I'll wait until..." "No,no...not strange. Kiss me again." "But you're crying..." "I can't help it. My feelings. I can't govern them, Odysseus."

(Page 354)

Like he's incredibly sweet. It makes it sadder because he's crying thinking about how much he missed her. BUT PENELOPE THINKS ABOUT HOW SHE'S CRYING BECAUSE SHE MISSES LEODES!!!

I couldn't stop thinking about Leodes. Remembering how it had been with him. And that made me cry. Odysseus didn't know. I don't think he knew. He thought the tears were for him. Tears of joy. Tears of passion. "Cry, my sweet wife. Let out all the tears that lie within you." "I'm so sorry...you deserve better than a sobbing woman after your journeyings. It will be better, I promise." "Don't say sorry. There's no need. I understand what you are feeling."

(Page 355)

Like you're taking away from Penelope AND Odysseus from something that is so fucking important to their story! HER STORY!!! The fact that they love each other so fucking much!!!

Not only that but the Father/son reunion was very lackluster.

Lots of Argos content though. :'D

LIKE?!?!!? I'm just mindboggled. I don't necessarily "hate" this book. I'm more flabbergasted as I kind of find this whole situation funny. Although I am sad as I wanted moments of her being a young mom, her being with family, her ruling. etc. I just...wanted to VENT!

Again! Don't be mean to the author or people who like this book! I just had to vent about my mind getting boggled for my sanity!

#(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ #how fucking dare you do that to Penelope?! She's cool af being a sneaky lady who's just as shady as her #husband that she loves so much and loves her as much in return! #I don't know how I feel about this book. It's actually strange. like that expression that Shrek has is probably the best way to describe it #rant #odyssey rant #idk I want to have this tagged for my OWN tags but I don't necessarily want to bog down the other tags with this. #Mad rambles #vent #greek mythology retelling #retelling #shot by odysseus #essay

[alice-ar-na]

UNDERWORLD SAGA- MY THOUGHTS

My goodness you guys do I have thoughts.

FIRST- the way this is such an ensemble heavy saga the 'all i hear are screams' in the first song WOW. Its because they have the whole crew back. They're singing with everyone, and I hadn't realised how much independent and almost quiet it had gotten during the circe saga, which speaks as a metaphor in itself

SECOND- Polites is back!!! Thank youuuuu actual tears were falling, the way odysseus' voice breaks when he says his name, similarly to his mother (regarding his mum, holy moly [pun intended] he didn't know she was dead- the guilt he must feel 'i took too long' broke me) polities that sweetheart, I can imagine even his ghost is so encouraging to the crew that's left on the journey, they needed that guy for morale big time.

THIRD- aight onto the prophet, anyone who read the odyssey is screaming rn, the foreshadowing is soo good but mysterious and twisted enough that it fits greek prophecies soooo well. Piggybacking off that 'palace in red' when we get to the suitors that shit is going to POP OFF damn it I cannot wait. Mentions of penelope being under pursuit. The WHO?!?!?!? Oh. My. Gods YES THAT WAS BRILLIANT. he's so angry and he loves his wife so much, I will never stop gushing over the two of them. Perfect.

FOURTH- the third song, pretty sure I screamed. The tension. The foreshadowing. The regret. The guilt. IT HAS EVERYTHING. All the references back to previous events, giving perspective from the other characters to stop portraying them like the enemies is so so important for the legacy of greek mythology. Perspective is everything. Onto THE BRIDGE!! HELLO? THIS MAN IS BOTH A GENIUS AND ACTUALLY INSANE. HE IS A MADMAN AND I LOVE IT. Drop another infant from a wall..... I actually have no words that is insanely cool. Odysseus has changed so much. Athena needs to hit him up again, now he'd kill for his people, you can see just how tired he is and how much he wants to go home. He's scared for penelope and telemachus, literally nothing else matters anymore.

Overall. 10/10 and this is only HALF WAY can it even get better than this??

#pretty sure my jaw was dropped the whole time walking to school while listening #hed better hurry up because i cannot wait for where this is going #i need to re read the odyssey now #the odyssey #epic underworld saga #epic #epic the musical #polites #odysseus x penelope #epic musical

[uselesstaroth]

Over two weeks ago I made this post

And here it is.

Sonic gets attacked by new eggman robots that he cannot damage in any way, and he gets separated from all his friends.

His only leads are:

The robots are similar to the ones from Starfall Islands

A gut feeling that Sage might be involved

A mysterious medallion he found after nearly drowning to death appears to reveal a map to a location he's never been in

Creative process beneath the "read more"

So, Sonic Underground came out in between the JP and US releases of Sonic Adventure, meaning it is completely divorced from moder Sonic media.

I always wanted to make a post-frontiers story that didn't involve some form of Evil Sonic or dead/missing Sonic.

I also noticed how few appearances Sonic makes in my usual stories, so I thought him as a focus would have been fun and a change of pace.

I watched Sonic Underground a lot as a kid, and I have held to this day that the most interesting thing that show did was giving Sonic two siblings to bounce off of that are the same age as him.

Now for the actual fic:

Most of my fics are LARP'd / music daydreamed before I write them down, which is why most of them are based on songs, and this one is... Actually an exception.

The post linked at the top is essentially how I came up with if this one. "What if Sonic Underground comes after Frontiers", and that's it.

That means that Sonic, Manic and Sonia have been apart for many years after their childhoods and that influenced how I wrote them.

I wrote Manic as a sort of community pillar vibe because of his scrappy upbringing evolving into a sense of community and activism. It also complemented with the decision to make a cymbal shield his main weapon of choice which does appear on the show. Him always breaking silences will be a running gag, don't you worry.

Sonia is a little more stick in the mud, mostly because right now she's in "business" mode, and I do plan to have her relax a bit as they make progress in saving the world. Also, the keyboard gun is not my invention, it's in the show, and that influenced her personality in this first chapter for sure.

Sonic is Sonic. Self explanatory in my opinion. The main changes from canon I suppose is that he's a lot more awkward around the other triplets, which just came about naturally, the fact that he's careful now (I imagine because Tails eventually gave him an earful about his attitude in Starfall Islands). Changing the laser guitar into a guitar sword is my firm belief that's how they'd do it if Underground had come out after Sonic and the Black Knight. It also helps him stand out from Sonia who also shoots lasers.

The most important thing I avoided was making the triplets eager to call eachother siblings. There's no way they get there quickly, they've lived their own lives for far too long. Manic being excited about it probably says something about his character.

The ending of this chapter comes from me realizing the seven chaos emeralds aren't a thing in Sonic Underground, and wanting to incorporate that in some way.

Also Infinite! What's he doing here? Not too sure.

And that's the gist of it

#manic the hedgehog #sonic the hedgehog #sonia the hedgehog #queen aleena #aleena the hedgehog #sonic underground #sonic underground odyssey #really like this one #miles tails prower #my creative process is a mess #sonic underground au

[the---hermit]

22|11|2023

Today I was super lucky to have my lecture finish eaflier, so I managed to run and get an early bus and unexpectedly had lunch home. In the early afternoon I got super tired I almost fell asleep, which is not good because my body does not take naps well. Unless I am very sick and end up falling asleep during the day, it's something I try to avoid at all costs. The few times in which I end up taking a nap I wake up feeling sick and my heartbeat feels like when I am on the verge of panic, all of this for no apparent reason, so you get why I avoid naps. Since I was feeling my eyes closing I decided to try and be a bit active, and it actually worked very well. I ended up fixing and highlighting the notes I took in the morning, and I read the introduction to the second book I'll have to study for my philosophy class which is Sade's La Philosophie Dans Le Boudoir. Having to focus on tasks that didn't need too much brain power definitely gave me some new energy, and now I feel much better.

Cozy hobbit autumn activities and productivity:

Read first thing in the morning

Daily Irish practice on duolingo

History of the philosophy of the Enlightenment lecture

Power-walked through the city to catch an early bus and succeeded in my goal

Had lunch at home by myself in a way that kinda reminded me of when I was in high school, surprisingly enough not in a bad way

Fixed the notes I took in the morning

Started reading another uni book

Crochet + tma relistening

Today's self care:

Moisturized my tattoos and did a face scrub (I am focusing on some body self care today, also because I am a fool and forgot to take my meds this morning)

📖: Odyssey by Homer, Philosophy In The Bedroom by Sade

#studyblr #studyinspo #uniblr #university #student life #studying #journal #journaling #notebook #productivity #self care #cozy hobbit autumn #mine #the---hermit

[pelideswhore]

Heyyy, hope you're having a good day!!

I wanted to ask why you didn't you like Circe or The song of Achilles? /gen

I have not read neither of them but I've heard positive reviews from almost EVERYONE so I thought it'd be good to see a different opinion about them, I don't wanna get my hopes up too much and then get disappointed, yk?

hello!! thank you for the ask :)

i’ll be honest— i haven’t read circe (because tsoa made madeline miller irredeemable to me) but from what i’ve heard of it, it seems to really be pushing radical feminist ideology. in the odyssey, circe (if anyone) is the one to rape odysseus, but madeline miller flips the narrative and puts the blame on odysseus. this is obviously very harmful for male victims of rape. other than that, i’m just really not a fan of any of these feminist retellings. it’d be too much to put in one ask, but it erases history, takes credit away from the real women that lived in these times and isn’t even good feminism to be pushing now

as for tsoa….. omg <33333 i hate it. i have a whole long post about it here, but in short, i hate all the rape that is glossed over, the erasure of achilles’ and patroclus’ actual sexualities, the cardboard of a main character that patroclus is and the vilification of apollo. that’s just to name a few things. even apart from storytelling, her style is just simply not for me. way too extravagant.

#apollos-lyre-here #greek mythology #greek myth #anti tsoa #achilles #patroclus #circe

[hamartia-grander]

20 questions for fic authors!

I was tagged by the lovely @ugetelynx and @wisecrackingeric-2 <3 so sorry it took me so long to do this hfsgjhdj

1. How many works do you have? - currently posted on ao3 I have 57 works total. However I have almost twice as many wips it's bad

2. Ao3 word count? - 395,068 ..... I've got a wip that's almost over 100k but it's also been there for years so I doubt that'll change anytime soon

3. What fandoms do you write for? - of the fics I have on ao3, I have written for detroit become human, star wars, resident evil, assassin's creed, and the last kingdom. The fandoms I've written for that are not on my ao3 include lotr/the hobbit, bbc sherlock, bbc merlin, marvel, voltron legendary defender, percy jackson universe, and whatever the Carry On by rainbow rowell fandom is called. Most of those I will never ever write for again lmao

4. What are your top five fics by kudos? - In order:

Sapphire Moonlight (Tequila Sunrise) (Serennedy)

We Look So Good (Reed900)

Hold Fast, the Suns Will Rise (Stay) (Dincobb) (also, my first fic ever posted, and still the fic I hold most dearly in my heart to this day)

We Are Home (Hank and Connor family content)

Tomato Soup (Serennedy)

5. Do you respond to comments? - every single one. I'm obsessed with comments. I have them all saved and stored so I can reread them at any time. Thank you everyone who has ever commented I love you

6. What fic did you write the angstiest ending for? - I only write angst with a happy ending. But I did write You Should Have Killed Me for a friend's dbh x hunger games simulator result and it had an angsty ending by result of being a hunger games simulator.

7. What fic did you write the happiest ending for? - I write many fics w happy endings, but I personally think my fic series Din and Grogu | the Clan of Two Trilogy has the happiest ending because it happened against all odds. It's a fic about Din and Grogu's found family (before BoBF and Mando s3 came out, so it's not canon accurate) and it ends meaningfully to me.

8. Do you get hate on fics? - I have before, but it was all bullshit that showed me the person commenting didn't actually read what I wrote but chose to get mad at something that didn't exist. So it was discarded easily. Otherwise, I've had people try to tell me how to write things, but I ignore them all

9. Do you write smut? - yes. badly.

10. Crossovers? - I wrote a dincobb fic that was set in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, with Din as Kassandra and Cobb as Anais. I also started a serennedy fic set in the detroit: become human universe but never got anywhere close to finishing it.

11. Ever had a fic stolen? - not that I know of lol.

12. Have you ever had a fic translated? - I had someone ask to translate one of my fics, and I said yes, but I don't think they've done so yet, which is fine. Other than that, no. But I'd be honoured!

13. Ever co-wrote a fic before? - I started a dincobb fic with a friend years ago but we never got around to finishing it. Someday I still hope to.

14. What's your all time favourite ship? - that's genuinely impossible to pick tbh I've had so many that rewired my brain. top three are probably bagginshield, simarkus, and shadowzel, not in any particular order.

15. What's a wip you want to finish but doubt you ever will? - ehhhhh probably the klance fic I started when I was like 15. I don't go to voltron anymore and literally couldn't care less about it. In fact I actively hate it.

16. What are your writing strengths? - I've been told that I'm good at characterisation and plot. I think I suck at plot severely. As for characterisation, I study characters really hard and take a long time to write fics so they remain in character so I'm glad people appreciate that. I also prefer writing dialogue to anything else.

17. What are your writing weaknesses? - Writing. haha I mean exposition.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language? I have before, I find it fun but also intimidating.

19. First fandom you wrote for? - The Hobbit :') my first ever fic was a bagginshield fic I started when I was 13. I still mean to finish it someday.

20. Favourite fic you've written? - *sighs* I guess I should say Another Time. It was the most fun to write, and everyone's responses have made all the difficulties of writing it endlessly worth it. It took me months but I'm so happy I finished it, and I'm working on p3 rn I PROMISE. But again the fic I hold most dearly in my heart is still Hold Fast, the Suns Will Rise (Stay)

#thank you friends this took me down memory lane in a great way #fanfiction #fanfic

[oldshrewsburyian]

I just started reading Inanna, by Emily H. Wilson (not the same Emily Wilson that translated The Odyssey) and it's wild. It's at once charmingly naive and extremely jaded. Inanna is going to be a badass when she wakes up from this fog she seems to be in, and I think it's actually going to be a trilogy? anyway in case you didn't know about it I just wanted to share because it seems like it might be your thing - retelling of Akkadian/Sumerian myths and a heavy dose of plot from the Epic of Gilgamesh

Ooh, that does sound interesting, thank you! I didn't know about it; I've been enjoying Sophus Helle's Enheduana, though.

#ancient literature #asks and answers #retellings #inanna #mythology #book recommendations #historical fantasy

[xerith-42]

Esmund and Shad/Araphel? Araphel and Menphia/Kulzak?

I already did a whole post about Esmund and Araphel on my side blog (shameless plug), but Araphel and his relationship with Menphia and Kul'zak is one of my favorite things ever.

I've already established that Menphia and Kul'zak are siblings in my brain, because they are, but this does lead to some... Interesting arguments. Kul'zak is the Divine Warrior who practices polyamory, while Menphia fantasizes about it. Menphia dreams about being able to be with Araphel and Irene at the same time, about being a part of whatever beautiful fucked up thing they've got going on. Kul'zak hooks up with Irene when she wants and teases Araphel so much that it turned into like. Begrudging friends with benefits.

Kul'zak is a cheeky little shit, only matched by Enki, and Araphel doesn't get what he's saying a lot of the time. Kul'zak will hit him with the most biting insult and Araphel doesn't get it because he's actually not read the Odyssey and The Iliad front to back twice for fun. Their relationship is the one that outsiders would see as openly toxic, they're often bickering during quests, sometimes even getting heated enough to turn into physical fights.

Araphel can't stand Kul'zak's lax attitude towards everything, and Kul'zak can't stand how Araphel doesn't know how to take a joke. At first this is playful banter, but like all things with The Divine, it turns bad over time. But it doesn't turn bad because of Araphel's jealousy, or because Kul'zak is a petty fuck, or anything like that.

It's because of Menphia. Because of Kul'zak's dearly beloved sister who is utterly heartbroken to see the two people she loves with her whole heart fighting. Menphia had fallen in love with Araphel before he even got the relic, and she fell for Irene hard and fast. She loved them both so deeply and despite her expression of this love, things still fell apart. Araphel and Irene started fighting, and eventually they didn't stop.

Menphia was thrown into despair, trying so hard to pull them back together, to keep their little fucked up family from falling apart. Her desperation was the catalyst for Kul'zak realizing that Araphel has been the cause of a lot of problems for the Divine. If Araphel was out of the picture, the rest of them could be friends, could have peace, fuck they might even have love. It's just Araphel and his baggage in the way.

After a particularly rough crying session with his sister, Kul'zak starts to formulate a plan. He starts asking Enki for specific resources. Starts studying artifacts. Starts experimenting with his relic in a way no one else has. The thing is, Kul'zak at first wanted to keep Araphel alive, just get rid of his relic. But as the relic consumed and transformed him into the monster he became, Kul'zak knew it wasn't possible. He knew he was going to have to kill his once friend.

Except... He can't do it alone. And nobody else is on board with Araphel dying, not even Esmund. So it gets downgraded to destroying his relic. But even if the relic is destroyed, Araphel is still a threat. He could still try to kill any of them for destroying it at all. So, the next step is throwing him into another realm. And thanks to the wyverns, Kul'zak knows exactly how to do that.

It was Kul'zak's idea to nearly kill his friend just so he could see a smile on his sister's face. Did Menphia actually want this?? Probably not! Would Kul'zak have listened if she objected?? Probably not! But she went along with it. She made the choice she never wanted to make. Kul'zak always told her that she shouldn't have to choose, that she could love them both at the same time, but when the chips are down he makes the impossible request of her. He asks her to choose. And she chose her brother.

Both of them were punished for this. Kul'zak was dealt a blow that would never heal, mangling the left side of his face and making it so his eye would never heal. Menphia was caught in the crossfire. When Esmund and Enki shattered Araphel's relic, Menphia was still fighting him off. She tried to get out of the way, but she was too late. While his relic was shattered, hers split as well. Fewer pieces, pieces she was eventually able to find (mostly), but still in pieces.

Kul'zak got what he wanted. Araphel is out of the picture. But so is a wounded Menphia, who takes the remnants of her relic to Tu'la and is never seen by the rest of the world again. Araphel is gone, but so is Kul'zak's eye and no matter how hard Enki tries, he's never getting it back. In the end he succeeded.

He grew to regret that success.

#aphblr #minecraft diaries #text post #answering asks #divine warriors #menphia the fury #kul'zak the wanderer #Araphel the realm breaker #enki the keeper

[blubushie]

My fucking mate (love u bb) got me hooked on Epic: The Musical because my primary school arse was pretty big on Greek mythology (not in a Percy Jackson way, in a "I literally read the entirety of The Odyssey over the summer break when I was 14" way).

Anyway my favourite song so far is Ruthlessness. Also Just a Man because it strikes home in ways I don't wanna discuss. Also also, Monster. For the same reasons as Just a Man. And Get in the Water. Besides Odysseus, who I heavily sympathise with, my favourite character in the musical is Poseidon (compared to The Odyssey, in which case it's Athena).

I was talking about it in Blucord yesterday even!!

Something also that I hadn't pointed out is that Poseidon actually is angry about what happened to his son, but he's angrier that Odysseus didn't kill Polyphemus but instead dishonoured the son of a god by leaving him forever blinded and dependent on his brothers. If he'd killed Polyphemus, and even better gone to the effort of giving him a burial (which would've shown him proper respect as a worthy opponent) then none of this would've happened.

Also on the same vein as #5, when Poseidon says "If only you'd killed my son," further in the song he says:

And now it is finally time to say goodbye, today you die Unless, of course, you apologise For my son's pain and all his cries

(Which Odysseus doesn't do, by the way--he just gives excuse after excuse. Not once does he actually express regret and apologise. He only attempts to justify his actions to Poseidon, who is not having it.)

When Poseidon says "pain" he doesn't mean the pain Polyphemus felt in the moment of losing his eye, he specifically means the entire life of pain and hardship Polyphemus will now have coupled with him being a burden upon his family--the pain of someone who was denied a good death and honourable burial. When he says "cries," he doesn't mean Polyphemus' cries about the loss of his eye, but specifically Polyphemus' cries to his father Poseidon, asking for him to enact vengeance on his behalf.

In this song it's quite literally Poseidon reminding Odysseus that he is a warrior of Greece, that Greek war is a matter of cunning but also honour, and that this is something that Odysseus has forgotten despite Athena trying to teach him. This is Poseidon telling Odysseus that he is going to teach him a lesson the literal goddess of war failed to teach him about honour in battle. This is Poseidon being very pissed off that he had to come settle petty mortal bullshit because Odysseus was feeling guilty and didn't kill his son so his son came crying to him about it, and furthermore that he heckled him about it from his ship.

So as punishment, Poseidon does the same thing Odysseus did--he scuttles his fleet at sea, he permanently cripples him emotionally and spiritually, dishonoured and denied a warrior's death this time. He leaves him with only 43 men left out of the original 600. Can you imagine how Odysseus felt? He brought 600 men into Troy, brought 600 out--didn't lose a soul in battle--only to lose 6 men to a cyclops, then piss off a god by his own hubris (going against the warnings of the literal god of wisdom) and lose 551 more of his men to a raging sea.

And furthermore, when Odysseus escapes using the bag of winds, Poseidon looms in the distance and watches him leave, choosing not to pursue for now. But he parrots Odysseus' last words to Polyphemus: I am your darkest moment. Remember me.

Polyphemus pleaded of Poseidon that he chase him like a hound across the sea. That Odysseus be cursed to return to Ithaca alone, that he lose all 600 of his men on his journey, and that he return after many years only to find his kingdom in turmoil. And Poseidon complied.

#bluposting #epic: the musical #i don't reckon i need a musical tag considering this is a Rare Occasion #blu tunes #do have the music tag tho! so we're using that

[callisteios]

Hey you seem to know a lot more about this than I do so I’m hoping you can help. Was Homer actually real? I’ve heard contrasting stories and I know what my emotional attachments would like to be the truth but I don’t actually know what the scholarly consensus is. Additionally if he was real, did he/they/whomever write more beyond the Iliad and the Odyssey? Trying to expand my Greek epics beyond the two big ones (although to be clear, I love them both). Thanks for any help you can give!

woahh hey anon. love that you've come to me for this. the person my greek lit prof did not love because i would only read the texts and none of the context...

this is not a question that has a yes/no answer unfortunately. from what i remember (when i studied this like 6 years ago??) sure (!?!?!) is the simplest answer. because long before the epics were written down (8th/7th cent BCE) they were oral poems for possibly many hundreds of years.

the yes scenario:

imagine for a moment that you're a guy homer and it's the 11th century BCE. you compose 2 (or more) really cool epic poems. they're so good that other bards learn them and they're repeated long after your death. all the way until writing is invented and everyone is like. my gods, this will be perfect to finally immortalise homer's poems.

In this scenario there's problems, particularly; are we really certain that the words written down in the 8th century are the exact same ones uttered by a guy generations earlier?

that's not a hypothetical we're quite sure it's a no. there were different versions floating around in antiquity, i believe (though may be wrong) that the versions of the iliad and odyssey we have today were codified in athens somtime in the 6th (?????) century.

so even in the 'yes, homer is a completely real guy who wrote 2+ poems, the version that we have today is not the work of one man, but countless communities and people who have all added and changed the stories to fit meter, culture, and current events.

The no scenario is simpler:

homer didn't write the original epics. maybe he's just the guy who wrote them down. maybe a disciple of homer did. maybe he wrote one but not the other. maybe homer was a woman. maybe homer never existed but by spending millenia attributing the poems to him we've made a god and homer is real but only because we believe. maybe a million things.

I'm really sorry that my answer is essentially ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but it is what is. pick the answer you like the most, argue it to the death with everyone you know. that's the classics way

As for other homeric works,

you're in more luck. i must confess to not be super well versed in the entire homeric cycle or the homeric hymns. I don't believe any of these works are actually attributed to homer but they're all written about similar topics/in the same style.

most are lost i'm p sure which is super sad, i have however read the homeric hymns to demeter and hermes, i thought they were super fun. love demeter nearly damning humanity to eternal winter, love hermes being born and immidiately deciding to cause problems.

if anyone more knowledgable than i wants to let me know if any of that was horribly wrong, do let me know!

#ask #anon #again sorry for the utter centrism of that answer but anyone who tells you we know anything for certain about homer is lying #i think i like to believe that homer is the poet who maybe didn't compose the epics but rather the guy made them into their best versions #homer #the iliad #the odyssey #OMG i nearly didn't post without saying #READ THE AENEID #it's not greek #it's not homeric #it might not even be as good as either of the originals (it is to me) #but it's massively inspired by them and a roman version which is a fun concept which is executed very well imo