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absolutebl · 1 year

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This Week in BL - When good chemistry goes bad

May 2023 Wk 3

Being a highly subjective assessment of one tiny corner of the interwebs. Organized by which ones (in each category) I’m enjoying most.

Ongoing Series - Thai

La Pluie (Sat iQIYI) ep 4 of 10 - yes it jumped to the top of the standings, the kiss was THAT good, best of the year so far. So soft and yet so sweet and yearning and with a proper chemistry - body, breath, everything. Also... there was plot happening this ep, but who cares about that? Some additional thoughts, now my brain has rebooted from that kiss. I do suspect Pat of still being a player: he is awful smooth, and he may want revenge for being jacked along for 2 years (I would). Ep 4 is early for a kiss like that, which means pacing-wise we may be in for a separation/break up around ep 8.

Step By Step (Thai Tues WeTV & Gaga) ep 5 of 10 (MDL still says 12, but Gaga still says 10) - Pat, dear, your gay is squirting all over our screens. Meanwhile… That is the smallest presidential suite bed I’ve ever seen. Lucky for us of course. And lucky for Jeng. Me with the side dishes = UH OH.

Our Skyy 2 (My School President) eps 9-10 - Alt reality where Tinn is in charge of the music club and Gun is the school president with the crush. Basically, it’s an excuse for them to play each others’ parts (which just highlighted how well they were cast, originally). Ultimately, Gemini is a better piner, and Fourth is a better tsundere. Although the reversed “holding it over his head” was v funny & Fourth IS a decent seme. (I also realized what I like so much about Fourth, like Saint he’s one of those rare full body actors.) Sound was a great uke and I loved how they changed his makeup for the role (did you notice?). TiwPor were as adorably ridiculous as ever. I liked the minor baby pairing for Aun, too. Still my NO SIGNING holds (although there was lots of dancing to counterbalance). In the end, all this really did was make me wanna rewatch the original. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. FYI The MV was a parody of HCTM, BB, 1k*. 8/10

A Boss and a Babe (Fri YouTube) ep 12fin - It was a cute sappy ending for a cute-ish sappy-ish show. I cannot abide that the mom who condoned the rape of her daughter got forgiven. No. Stop it GMMTV. Review below.

The Promise (Thai Weds YT & WeTV) ep 9 of 10 - I'm in trouble when I'm rooting for everybody BUT the main couple. I guess Nan doesn’t have a NO SINGING policy. Also I guess Nan was waiting for Phu all along? This show. ALSO could we not have just ended it here?

Past-senger (Thai Weds Gaga) ep 11 of 12 eps - I don’t understand. What? Where did all these new characters come from? Do we care about the hets? Not even slightly. What is anyone doing? What’s going on? do I care abotu anyone anymore? No. Please make it stop.

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

Our Dining Table AKA Bokura no Shokutaku (Japan Thurs Gaga) ep 7 of 10 - OMG so adorable, so repressed, so reserved, so soft, so awkward, so special. Heart melting. Also. Hungry. The WAY Minoru looks at Yutaka when he’s eating (now that he knows the history). The way we got to see the exact moment that Minoru realizes he is in love. Perfection.

Star Struck (Korea iQIYI & Gaga) ep 1-2 of 8 - Zuho (Kpop SF9 - noted good egg) opposite rookie actor Kim In Sung (the one with the crush). icky is being weird about it but it looks like Gaga also picked it up? Depends on your territory I suppose. Anygay: Friends since childhood, jock/nerd, puppy/cat and I sense bi-himbo confusion and pining introvert gay. There’s family strife plus class issues and it has some interesting things to say already about the nature of friendship, romance, and jealousy. I like it, weirdly reminds me of something that might have come out of China. Not early CBL, but some of the later stuff that was censored but hearkened to Addicted. This has the feel of what China could have made now (were things politically different). Because of this feel, I’m not confident in this being an HEA or even a true BL but it is interesting enough for me to bump it way up the ranks.

Happy Merry Ending (Korea Thurs Gaga) eps 7-8fin - I get why SJ pushed JH away, but I kinda agree that SJ is too much work. Abused or not, I wouldn’t put in the damn effort - so I guess I’m glad SJ took a year off to figure his shizz out? Far be it from me to agree with a year break in a Kdrama, tho. I didn’t even mind that they were separated most of these 2 eps: it was nice to see a Seme told no, who actually backed off and did as he was told. Plus the running of the gays (how Japan of you SK). I’m assuming that this was the final episode and that Viki thinking that there are 2 more is bonkers? Because this felt like a finale. For me this one had a stronger finish than any other aspect of the show (odd when the couple spent the bulk of it apart). Oh! And someone give Shin Myung Sung (the surfer bestie) his own damn BL, m’kay? Review below.

Love Mate (Korea Thurs Viki) eps 5-6 of 8 - Longest elevator ride in the world. Honorifics discussion! My favorite! And, “there is only one bed but they slept together on the floor anyway” trope. A BL staple. Also the tie/lanyard grab. Another fav. Still pushy puppy stalker remains creepy manipulative obsessive warped hotness. Basically KBL version of trash and… I’m into it. We all got our kinks, I guess.

Vian the series (Vietnam YouTube ) - Such a cat. I’m reminded of Milk. It’s cute. They cute. I like it.

Naked Dinner AKA Zenra Meshi (Japan Fri Gaga) ep 6 of 12 - So is the nude dining meant to be some kind of weird allegory for repressed gayness?

It’s Airing But ...

My Story (Pinoy Sat YouTube) 10 eps - I bounced at ep 4. Someone will tell me if I should bother with the rest.

House of Stars (Thai Mon iQIYI) 12 eps - I bounced at ep 3. Will binge if told it is worth it at end.

The Day I Loved You (Pinoy YouTube) eps 6-7 of 10 - Terminal illness for the sunshine. I bounced at ep 6. DNF.

Ended this week

Love Syndrome finished its run on WeTV (I stopped at ep 2) - anyone wanna weight in with thoughts on the ending and whether I should binge or not? I do love Lee Long Shi.

Happy Merry Ending - Stars Lee Dong Won (KNK) as an ex-idol turned wedding singer with an abusive ex and a panic disorder + the sunshine pianist who falls in love with him. Timid tsundere & sweetheart gay is an interesting match. They’re gentle together, almost kindly and there is a calm ache to their pairing. However, it lost its way as a BL, being more about the main character’s struggle than the romance. It had a strong finish but ultimately the premise & characters meant this was never going to be one of my favorites. 8/10

A Boss and a Babe - With an inconsistent narrative and self-sabotaging characters this was not the Thai BL office romance I was hoping for. I spent most if it feeling manipulated without good reason and sorry for ForceBook. They did their best with a shoddy script (AGAIN!) and none of its flaws were their fault. This show was all over the place and so am I about it. It’s better than Enchanté but that’s not really saying much. 7/10 I guess

In Case You Missed It

BL Express reported that Taiwanese production companies have announced 7 new BLs (4 of these from Vidol.) Stories range from office romance to crime drama.

Someone did a survey on KBL watchers.

Build Jakapan has been cleared of all charges.

Next Week Looks Like This:

Starting this week:

5/26 Be My Favorite prev title: You Are My Favorite (Thai YouTube) Adapted JittiRain y-novel (2gether, FUTS, ToL, Vice Versa) one of those “rewrite the past to change the future.” Stars Krist (SOTUS) + Fluke Gawin (DBK, Not Me). Expect this to be v low heat, full of LIES and manipulation.

5/27 The Luminous Solution (Thai ????) 10 eps - Thana is having trouble at work and in his relationship. He can't seem to catch a break. So he makes a wish to change everything. The wish has a price.

5/27 Takumi-kun Series 6: Nagai Nagai Monogatari no Hajimari no Asa (Japan) - NO ONE ASKED FOR THIS (but that has never stopped Japan before) and no, I have no idea where to get it, why would I ????? (Say it with me everyone: Oh Japan, must you?*)

2023 forthcoming BL master post (see comments, some are inaccurate, NOT KEPT UPDATED)

This Week’s Meta Moments

naturellement (Step By Step naming its trope.)

The Promise calling out the uke archetype, Mary Sue much?

ALL THE DANCING. Live the dream! Live the trend! Live the trope!

4 tropes in one! Drinking, piggyback, feed him, product placement. Very nice GMMTV & GeminiFourth. I’m impressed.

nash

(all My School President’s Our Skyy - kinda a masterclass in using ALL THE TROPES and ALL THE BL references.)

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

The unmitigated irony of so-called fans of ZeeNunew coming after this show for this moment (not to mention the self sabotage). Truly mind boggling. (Step by Step)

The two boys who didn’t win the boy but totally should have. This show makes me wanna drink too. Next week... soju! (The Promise)

Yes please and thank you GMMTV. (My School President)

I do love the kinkification of Phi. (Boss & Babe)

These tiny idiots it turns out are, in fact, totally hilarious. La Pulie (side dish friendship group)

(last week)

Current Kpop earworm? Key & Taeyeon’s Hate that... (which if it wasn’t an OST SHOULD have been)

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olderthannetfic · 8 months

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/726901861182996480/ a lot of the Richard Siken response is honestly so homophobic, trying to come up with some sinister reason for why a gay man would be interested in writing or reading sexy fanfic about attractive men in a TV show. There was a viral post going around here by some person with a Stranger Things username (not insinuating that fandom is especially weird or anything, just that I remember this person had one of the characters from that show as their username) that suggested he was a creep or groomer or something because he had not responded well to a teenager basically wanting him to do her homework for her, but “he happily writes fanfic of shows for her age demographic” (or something like that) which is both a truly bizarre description of Supernatural, a show that’s always been aimed at adults even if it also has a fair number of teenage fans, but also is really clearly trying to invoke some sort of Groomer Panic in a time when that’s rising as a form of violent homophobia toward LGBTQ+ people especially those who are AMAB. And it’s just such a bizarre statement: even if we were talking about a drama that was aimed at teenagers, in what ways is it “groomer” for an adult to watch this show (lol, on the website that is full of adults freaking out over kids’ shows) or for that adult to find the adult characters played by adult actors attractive enough to write sexy fanfic about them? It’s just really obviously reaching for an excuse to call a gay man a groomer.

In general, I feel like this website has a serious problem (it’s been the case at the very least since the panic over CMBYN, and before anyone gets pissy, I’m not talking about anyone taking issue with the content of the film itself, but the people making weird insinuations about gay/bi men for liking it or “the gay community” for embracing it or over the bi male novel author’s own sexuality or reasons for writing it, etc.) where a lot of people who are not gay/bi men think it’s okay for them to make weird homophobic assertions about it, and generally not bother to question their homophobic beliefs about gay and bi men, because they themselves are some other kind of LGBTQ+. I’m a cis lesbian and a lot of this particular seems to come from cis lesbians and bi women, often trying to couch it in a general sort of skepticism that women as a marginalized group might have toward men as a privileged group, but then it only ever seems to be directed at men who are also marginalized such as gay/bi men (and also MOC) and specifically for things that are a result of those marginalized identities and that don’t affect women — NOT a situation where a man is using his marginalized identity as an excuse for misogyny or anything like that. Anyway, people need to knock that shit off. Not every person in the LGBTQ+ community has the same experience, and being, say, a cis woman who is queer doesn’t necessarily make you any better of an authority on gay or bi men’s lives than cishet people if you aren’t making an effort to talk to them or read stuff by them or learn about their lives, and certainly doesn’t mean you can’t be homophobic toward them — just like how in turn, queer men can be bigoted toward lesbians and/or bi women. I don’t understand how people can be aware of other kinds of intra-LGBTQ+ bigotry — cis gay or bi people being transphobic, gay people being biphobic, etc. — and not be aware that this is also a thing that can happen from other LGBTQ+ people toward gay men.

And being ANY kind of queer absolutely does not give you a get out of jail free card for buying into and disseminating the moral panics about groomers, “kink at pride,” “drag is problematic and always sexual” etc. which are used by the right wing to hurt all of us. This was bad enough in like 2018 as part of the perennial brain worms people on this website have about Pride (that are because way too many of them don’t leave their houses and actually go to a Pride parade) or when people could plausibly believe that “groomer” was purely about shipping discourse and maybe the occasional actually kind of creepy older adult in fandom spaces who spends a little too much time glomming onto teens specifically. But in 2023 you don’t really have any excuse for not being aware of how those terms have broken containment and are now part of regular right-wing propaganda, and particularly a concerted right-wing campaign to try to re-mainstream homophobia in places where it had become socially taboo. Your discomfort around a real adult gay man just enjoying fanfiction, which does not affect you, is not justified and you need to work through that. Using terms like “groomer” for fucking fandom discourse when it’s come to mean what it does in the broader culture is just completely morally reprehensible. Get a fucking grip

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kanmom51 · 11 months

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Felt like I had to bring this back

Please forgive me @juliapark13 for hijacking your post, but I just had to, it being the perfect example of not only how stupid people are, but also of how there is no problem for people to make assumptions as to the members sexuality when it's about assuming they are straight. It only works in one direction though.

This ask:

And this post linked:

Because, I too feel for either of their non existent girl friends, former (past 7 years), present or future.

With all the noise about the word girl maybe or maybe not being in a snippet of a maybe JK song on his maybe album, I thought it fitting to bring a few posts back.

All part of my hardcore expose proving once and for all that, you guessed right, JK ain't gay.

RB - the Jikook conversation transcript.

Hickey-gate.

It's true. They have been covering for each other for years.

JK ain't gay pt. 1

JK ain't gay pt. 2

JK ain't gay pt. 3

JK ain't gay pt. 2 of pt. 3

And if talking about the gf...

I'm guessing that now with this shit circulating it's time for a part 4 of this expose then, right? I mean the word girl in lyrics to his song (maybe). That would surely mean he's straight, right? Cause Ricky Martin is 100% straight, always was.

Wait, he's not?

But surely he was when he was singing:

"Woke up in New York City

In a funky cheap hotel

She took my heart, and she took my money"

No?

Shite.

Could it possibly be that a queer artist sing a song with lyrics that have zero to do with his own personal life? Could it be?

Could a queer artist create art (song, dance, paintings, acting etc.) that has nothing to do with his sexual orientation?

And now I'm being dead serious. This is total bull. Of course queer artists create art that is not necessarily personal. Queer singers singing songs about loving women, queer actors playing roles being in love with a woman all while they are gay. Queer artists painting women.

Now about this song snippet specifically:

We don't know if this is an actual song or perhaps a guide song.

We don't know what he is actually saying there (I've literally heard so many different versions of it, some with girl some without).

We don't know the full lyrics of this specific song.

We don't know if this song is on his album.

We don't know what this album consists of, how many songs, how personal it is as a whole, who wrote the lyrics to some or all of his songs.

We just don't know.

If the song or songs on his album have female pronouns and talk about love and attraction to females, and if JK tells us the album and all songs on it are personal to him, only then will people be able to come around to our blogs and claim some sort of proof that JK might be interested in women.

But does that rule out him being queer?

Heck no. Cause you know, bisexual is a thing. Pansexual too.

But there is no talking to these people. When you are a brainless moron it's hard to understand that love is love is love. You also can't possibly see what these two have been up to for the past 7 years or so. You can't see, you can't hear everything they've showed us, told us. What a kick in their gut it was when JK came live in the past couple of months with JM on the mind. And what a kick in the gut it will be for them if we have a Letter like song on his album. Here's hoping. Yes, that's me being as petty as fuck.

#Jikook #Kookmin #minkook #Jungkook #JK #Jimin #JM

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daisiesonafield-blog · 2 years

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seems every reviewer had made up their minds about Harry Styles being a queerbaiter

English novelist E.M. Forster never married, and why would he? The author of “Maurice” and “Howards End” was gay, reportedly maintaining relations with a much-younger police officer over the span of four decades. That man did marry, and history has it that his wife knew their secret. In “My Policeman,” this unconventional arrangement lends itself quite nicely to one of those slightly stuffy yet respectable period pieces of the kind that Ismail Merchant and James Ivory have made of Forster’s novels, jumping back and forth in time between the sexy stuff (featuring Harry Styles, fully embracing the ambiguity of his queerbaiting brand) and the maudlin way it resolves itself so many years later.

“My Policeman” comes alive during its 1950s-set segments, focusing first on the origins of Tom and Marion’s relationship before diving even deeper into the past to reveal how Patrick got there first, hitting the deliciously innocent young cop with the line, “You know, I’m an amateur artist.” When Tom shows up a short time later to be sketched, he’s wearing his full uniform — but not for long. Patrick follows his lead (it’s Tom who makes the first move), and the ensuing sex scenes are tender yet genuine, and they don’t skimp on the nudity, which is somewhat surprising, since the film seems to have been made for audiences who identify with Marion more than either of these men.

What gives that away? Well, so much of the film is told from her point of view, and even the flashbacks — which are fleshed out (so to speak) by what she reads in Patrick’s journals — reflect the naivete with which their marriage began.

The present-day portion of “My Policeman” is all about what remains unresolved, like the movie “Atonement” with much drearier everything: The sets, costumes and so forth are all perfectly appropriate for the period, just a bit more mothlike and gray than we might want. Alas, the older actors don’t have all that much to do (editor Chris Dickens keeping cutting back to McKee reading), but the younger trio are strong, albeit restrained, in their roles. Corrin, so great as a wife betrayed in “The Crown” (she played Princess Diana), could do this role in her sleep, while Styles has the tricky task of making Tom’s betrayal feel tragic for all involved.

In the end, it’s probably for the best that Roberts decided to fictionalize everything, rather than treating this as Forster’s actual story. Doing so allows the novelist to focus on the poetry of her interpretation rather than the psychology of how relationships actually work. Whether its “Brokeback Mountain” or “My Policeman,” the trouble with straight women writing gay love stories is that they tend to conflate sex and romance — that is, they think of them as love stories — while treating bisexuality as a threat, as opposed to a liberating identity unto itself. There are a lot of people out there who have wives and children at home and lovers on the side (same-sex or otherwise), and this doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re unfulfilled. They may, in fact, be more satisfied than those in heteronormative relationships.

In “My Policeman,” Marion assumes that her husband has always preferred Patrick to herself, and that it would be an act of love on her part to reunite them. For any nonstandard arrangement to work, however, communication is key. Rather than dictating the terms in the climactic scene, she might have saved them both a lot of trouble by having a conversation. Keep the Kleenex within reach — you’ll still want it. Just know that a more meaningful version of this story would have involved less time reading alone and more talking together.

Variety - not full review. Read it here (spoilers).

[I'm unsure what movie Peter here watched, because he seems to think it was one dissing bisexuality. It isn't.]

#my policeman reviews #Peter Debruge #variety #i honestly don't think these people actually watched the whole movie #wtf is this #long post

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castielmacleod · 2 years

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I was reading that post about the 12x23 Crowley conundrum and. It’s not that I necessarily disagree with the actor man on his own character but……. lol I kind of do actually. I feel a bit insane over how he doesn’t seem aware of how. Soft? He actually played Crowley sometimes. I mean Crowley definitely likes winning, but idk you can’t convince me that it’s ALL he cared about, especially toward the end. And I think that the growth of the character from just wanting to win, along with the instances where he actually does care about other things are actually very important?

Like I actually do genuinely believe he cared about Rowena. Not on a personal level, maybe, but on a deep traumatised level where he is still desperate for her affection and approval despite everything. I do think that he felt so incredibly, painfully lonely and unloved that he formed a genuine romantic attachment to Dean that haunted him right up to his suicide. I don’t think he ever actually hated Cas at any point, and past season 8 he is actually an surprisingly reliable ally to Cas whenever Cas needs his help. And I truly believe that Crowley actually did on some level want to better himself, to be different. In 10x23 he says he thought that by doing better and making changes to himself then maybe he’d feel something again. He doses himself with human blood throughout season 9, also presumably to feel something—feel things more deeply, at least, than he’s able to as a demon. And of course 8x23 is where we learn that underpinning all of Crowley’s actions is actually an overwhelming desire to be loved. It’s actually kind of notable that it ISN’T the desire to win that comes up in that scene, because he could have had the same break down, cried about how he deserves to win, he just wants to win. It still would have been kind of sad, at least to me. But instead that scene was about love and it instantly added so much more dimension to him. And I think “ultimately just wants to be loved” is a way more deep and compelling thesis for Crowley than “literally does not care and only wants to win” could ever be.

Mark seems to have a very divided view of where Fergus ends and Crowley begins, and in some ways I agree—Fergus is not Crowley. But I think Crowley is Fergus. To me Crowley is, when it comes down to it, still the 8 year old boy who was abandoned by his mother all those centuries ago. You can literally see that little boy on his face when Rowena is talking to him sometimes. That’s why it’s like… even if Crowley thinks he doesn’t care about Rowena, even if he tries to compartmentalise her as Fergus’ mother, not his—he very much actually does care. Visibly. It’s weird to me that of all the people to not really recognise that, it’s the guy actually standing in front of the camera making it so that Crowley visibly cares. Not just about Rowena, but about Cas, and Dean. All people he can’t get over.

And I mean Crowley’s plotlines definitely started getting worse in his last few seasons. By which I mean just fucking awful and unbelievably stupid. They really did strip him completely of his cleverness and charisma and temper and it is a brutal defanging honestly. It’s hard to believe smug permasmile unblinking sits-in-chairs-backwards blatantly gay “under a frigging spotlight” clean-shaven Crowley is even the same physical person as later seasons Crowley and I don’t mean that in a “wow character development” way but in a “oh they literally just stopped writing him” way. And like I’m a very melancholy person so I actually don’t even hate the whole depressive spiral Crowley ends up in, it breaks my heart in just the right way and it’s part of the reason I am so especially attached to Crowley as it is (like I always loved him but as soon as they started making me THAT fucking sad about him. Whew.) I think his depression is something that could have been meaningful to his character development and actually done well if 1. it hadn’t come at the cost of at LEAST his smarts (and I know very well how depression can wipe the floor with you and hollow you out into a shell of your former self, but they literally could have at least let him keep his bloody wits about him if nothing else) and 2. it had actually been acknowledged by the show that yes, he is depressed, and 3. it had led into a real proper resolution to the redemption arc they literally put him on instead of letting it putter out into nothing by making the Winchesters continuously refuse to give him the time of day despite everything he kept doing and giving up for them. If the writers had kept ACTUALLY writing him then the depression would have felt purposeful and not this anticlimatic wasting away until Crowley just kills himself.

(Furthermore not a single one of his interactions with Lucifer should have happened and I mean not a SINGLE one. Just throw all of that out. At a minimum though if Lucifer were to end up in Crowley’s captivity then he would have hacked the bloody hell out of him like he did to Samandriel and Gadreel and that’s that.)

And…. please forgive me for saying this but I actually. God I’m sorry. I actually agree with removing the “even when I lose I win” line in the canon context of Crowley’s death. If Crowley had been better written in s12 I would have no issues but I cannot stress enough that there was literally no winning for him at any point in that season, and ESPECIALLY in his death. I very strongly read his suicide as due to him being miserable and repeatedly rejected by the people he cares about and I think that spell was a convenient excuse for him to get it over with. If that’s just my take then okay, but that is really how it comes off to me. And I mean the spell doesn’t even work right away—Lucifer still has time to come out through the portal and murder Cas before Mary pushes him back in but he literally could have escaped! (And later does escape, when the Winchesters reopen🫣 the portal 🫣🫣🫣 to rescue Mary). And ultimately it all makes Crowley’s entire sacrifice kind of pointless. I’m sorry to say that when he lost he lost. And I will never not be bitter about it

#Crowley spn #Tw suicide mention #My posts #This is not like a well composed essay or anything just Thoughts

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potteresque-ire · 3 years

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More ask answer about Word of Honour (山河令, WoH) and the so-called “Dangai 101 phenomenon” under the cut ~ with all the M/M relationships shown on screen, does it mean improved acceptance / safety for the c-queer community?

Due to its length (sorry!), I’ve divided the answer into 3 parts: 1) Background 2) Excerpts from the op-eds 3) Thoughts This post is PART 1 ❤️. As usual, please consider the opinions expressed as your local friendly fandomer sharing what they’ve learned, and should, in no ways, be viewed as necessarily true. :)

(TW: homophobic, hateful speech quoted)

After WoH had started airing, I had waited for one of China’s state-controlled media to publish opinion pieces about the show. Specifically, I’d like to know ~ what is the administration’s current take on Dangai (耽改), as a genre? How does it characterise the closeness of the same-sex leads—the closeness that is suppressed when the original IP, of the genre Danmei (耽美) was converted for visual media presentation?

This is important, as China is a country where the government’s attitude becomes the official public attitude. The state opinion pieces will be quoted and parroted, especially if they come from heavy-weight sources (state-controlled media also have their importance/influence hierarchy). Production of the upcoming Dangai dramas will adjust their scripts accordingly. Marketing tactics will also adjust, make sure it doesn’t spread “the wrong message”; Dangai and Danmei dramas have both been pulled off shelves during or immediately after its airing before (Addicted 上癮 and Guardian 鎮魂, respectively), despite having already passing the censorship board.

If a heavy-weight state opinion piece pans the one-lead-fawning-over-the-other scenes in WoH (there are a few of them), for example, scenes / lines of such suggestive nature will likely disappear from the upcoming Dangai dramas for at least a year or two. If the critique spills over to a harsh stance against the presence of queers in Chinese media, all future Dangai dramas can become strict “socialist-brotherhood” stories, their “no homo” message reinforced by, for example, by inserting a female lead (or changing one of the leads to female).

Whether the official public opinion equates the true public opinion or not, public behaviour in China is quickly driven by the official public opinion. Example: the Xi regime’s conservative stance on queer issues has already translated to a quick deterioration of queer tolerance in China; open expressions that were tolerated, even welcomed, just several years ago are now met with significant hostility in the public.

This is a reflection of the nature of their government. A quick thought experiment may explain this. Take … jaywalking. It’s probably fair to say we’ve all committed this “crime” before?

Will you still jaywalk if your government declares it immoral to do so? Where I am, in the United States, the answer is definitely a no. The public will probably laugh at (and make memes about) the poor official who made the declaration, kindly ask the government to do something useful for once (f*** off), and keep jaywalking.

Now, what if the declaration comes with a law that includes a one-year prison term + lifelong criminal record for jaywalking? Let’s say this law is fully executable and irreversible, given this being a thought experiment—nothing you, or the public, can say or do can contest it.

Will you still jaywalk, even if you disagree with government’s stance that the act is immoral? You’ve got a neighbour who continues to defy the law. Will you think twice before letting your young loved ones go out with them?

Very soon, jaywalking becomes “bad”—even though such “badness” had little moral basis at its origin. It is bad because the government has “characterised” it to be so—an authoritarian government that doesn’t allow challenge of the characterisation.

The retention of queer elements in Dangai is the jaywalking in the example. The Chinese government stepping in to characterise (定性) an event, a phenomenon etc is common, and the people know the drill well that they fall in line quickly.

If a powerful state-controlled media publish a negative opinion piece on the queer elements in Dangai / Danmei, therefore, those elements can disappear overnight.

My question had been: will the state do it? The Xi regime has made its distaste for LGBT+ representation in visual media abundantly clear with its NRTA directives. However, while the Chinese government typically puts ideology (意識型態) as its Guiding Principle, exceptions have always been made for one reason. One word.

Money.

TU is a legendary financial success story every production company (Tencent itself included) wants to replicate. As a result, there are ~ 60 Danmei IPs (book canon) with their copyright sold for Dangai dramas; this long line of Danmei dramas in the horizon has been nicknamed “Dangai 101”, after the name of the show “Produce 101” Dd was dance instructor in. These dramas are all competing to be the next TU by profit.

Adoration from fans is nice, but money is what matters.

C-ent is currently in a financial bleak winter. The anti-corruption, anti-tax-fraud campaign started by the Xi regime in 2018, which cumulated to a sudden (and unofficial) collection of 3 years of back-taxes from studios and stars, has drained a significant amount of its capital; the number of new TV dramas being filmed fell 45% between 2018 and 2019, and production companies have been closing by the tens of thousands. The tightening of censorship rules also means production is associated with more risk. The commercial sector outside c-ent is also eager for replications of TU’s success—they need more “top traffic” (頂流) idols like Gg and Dd whose fans are sufficiently devoted to drive the sales of their products. Such “fan economy” would benefit the government, even if it doesn’t have direct stakes in the companies in and outside c-ent. People’s Daily, the Official State Newspaper, previously published a positive opinion piece on fan economy in 2019, estimating its worth at 90 billion RMB (~13.7 billion USD) per year.

But if the state allows the queer elements in Dangai’s to pass the censorship board (NRTA) for profit, how can it do so with the current “No homo” directive in place? From previous experience (scarce as it may be), the queerness has to be sufficiently obvious for the shows to make the profit everyone is wishing for. Dangai dramas in which the leads’ romantic relationship remains subtle have not sold the way TU does, even if they are well-reviewed and feature famous, skilled actors (as Winter Begonia 鬓边不是海棠红 last year.)

NRTA, and the government behind it, can’t just say I’m turning a blind eye to the flirting and touching for the money. What can it say then?

Here’s what I’d thought—what it can say, or do, is to “characterise” these Dangai dramas in a way that leave out its queerness. It did so for TU. TU’s review by the overseas version of People’s Daily devoted a grand total of two characters to describe WWX and LWJ’s relationship—摯友 (“close friend”). The rest of the article was devoted to the drama’s aesthetics, its cultural roots. (The title of the article: 《陳情令》：書寫國風之美 Chen Qing Ling: Writing the Beauty of National Customs).

How could it do that? The State’s power ensuring few questioning voices aside, I’ve been also thinking about the history and definition of Danmei (耽美)—Dangai’s parent genre as the causes. Based on the history and definition, I can think of 3 ways the queer elements in Danmei (耽美) can be characterised by the state, 2 of which provide it with the wiggle room, the movable goalposts it needs should it choose to want to overlook the queerness in Dangai.

The 3 characterisations I’ve thought of, based on the history and definition of Danmei (耽美) are:

1) The queer characterisation, which focuses on its homoerotic element. * Summary of the characterization: Danmei is gay.

2) The “traditional BL” characterisation, which focuses on BL’s historic origin as a “by women, for women” genre. The M/M setup is viewed as an escapist protest against the patriarchy, a rejection of traditional gender roles; displays of M/M closeness are often “candies” for the female gaze. * Summary of the characterization: Danmei is women’s fantasy.

3) The aesthetic characterisation, which focuses on beauty—from the beauty of the characters, the beauty of a world without harm to the romance. * Summary for the characterization: Danmei is pretty.

The queer characterisation (1) is well-understood, and likely the default characterisation if it is to be made by the fraction of i-fandom I’m familiar with. Most i-fans I’ve met, myself included, would likely and automatically associate the M/M relationships in The Untamed (TU) and WoH with queerness.

The “traditional BL” characterisation (2), meanwhile, equates Danmei with BL as the genre of homoerotic works developed in 1970’s Japan for women comic readers, and has been widely interpreted from a feminist point of view.

Under such interpretation of “traditional BL” works, the double male lead setup wasn’t meant to be an accurate depiction of homosexuality. It wasn’t about homosexuality at all. Rather, it was about the removal of women and along with it, the rage, the eye-rolling, the unease women readers had often felt when attempting to interact with mainstream romance novels of the time, in which the female leads had mostly been confined to traditional women roles, and their virtue, their traditional feminine traits.

The M/M setup therefore acted as a “shell” for a het relationship that allowed removal of such social constraints placed on women. The lead with whom the woman audience identified was no longer bound to the traditional role of women, such as being the caregiver of the family. The lead could instead chase their dreams and roam the world, as many contemporary women already did or aspired to do; they were no longer limited to playing the passive party in life and in the relationship—and they enjoyed such freedom without risking the love, the respect the other male protagonist felt for them.

BL, in this traditional sense, has therefore been interpreted as an answer for, and a protest against the heteropatriarchal gender norm still dominant in societies deeply influenced by Confucianism, including Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, China. The M/M setup is, at heart, (het) women’s fantasy. The inclusion of two young-and-beautiful male leads also satisfy “the female gaze” ~ the popularity of BL among het women has therefore been compared to the popularity of lesbian porn among het men. In both cases, the audience is drawn not for the homosexual element but by the presence of double doses of sexual attraction.

(Please forgive me if any of my wording comes as disrespectful! I’m not used to talking about these topics.)

The availability of the “traditional BL” characterisation (2) is key to bypassing queerness as a topic in the discussions of Danmei (耽美).

The aesthetic characterisation (3) is very closely related to 2) in origin, but deserves its own point as a characterisation that can stand on its own, and may be more obscure to the English-speaking fandom given the common English translation of Danmei (耽美) as Boy’s Love.

Boy’s Love, as a name, amplifies the queer characterisation (1) and de-emphasises the aesthetic characterisation (3); Danmei (耽美), meanwhile, does the reverse.

Where does the name Danmei come from?

When BL was first developed in Japan, it used to have a now out-of-fashion genre name: Tanbi. Tanbi was borrowed from same name describing a late 19th century / early 20th century Japanese literary movement, known as Tanbi-ha and was inspired by Aestheticism in England. Aestheticism “centered around the doctrine that art exists for the sake of its beauty alone, and that it need serve no political, didactic, or other purpose”. Along the same line, the core belief of authors of Tanbi-ha was that art should celebrate beauty and reject the portrayal of ugliness in human nature, the darkness of reality:

…Tanbi writers argued that the ideas of naturalism writers such as “objectivism,” “truth is more important than beauty” and so on would “oppress human beings’ desire” so as to “lose beauty and human nature.” Accordingly, they insisted on “acute mental and emotional sensibility” [Ye, 2009].

(Source, with more details on Tanbi.)

Neither romance nor homosexuality were requirements for works in the original Tanbi-ha genre. BL borrowed the name Tanbi because its early authors saw their work created under the same principles: the emphasis on the beauty of their characters, their love (romantic and platonic), in a world that was also beautiful and untouched by ugliness such as sexism and homophobia.

The stubborn persistence on keeping one’s eyes trained on the beautiful, the willingness to turn a blind eye to reality for the sake of the beauty is built-in in the genre’s name. Tanbi meant more than beauty, aesthetics; its kanji form was written as 耽美; 耽 = to sink, drown in, to over-indulge in; 美 = beauty.

Tanbi, therefore, literally means to drown in, to over-indulge in beauty.

Over time, as the genre expanded its writing style, Tanbi eventually fell out of favour as BL’s genre name in Japan. However, as it gained popularity in the Sinosphere in the 1990s, starting with Taiwan and Hong Kong, the kanji of Tanbi was retained as the Chinese name of the genre.

In Mandarin Chinese, 耽美 is pronounced Danmei. A hyperfocus on the aesthetics, the utopian aspects of traditional BL is therefore retained in Danmei by its name. People’s Daily could therefore devote its review of TU on its aesthetics. Realism, including politics and all discussions of social issues, can therefore be swept aside in the name of respecting the genre’s tradition.

I’ve mostly been reading about and observing c-fandom, and I believe these 3 characterisations have all attracted its own kind of fans. Fans who care and talk about queer issues even when it isn’t encouraged by their sociopolitical environment, who shine a light upon these issues in their fan works. Fans who treat the M/M leads as if they were a traditional cishet couple, such as calling one of the leads 老婆 (wife) and assigning him biologically female functions when needed (via, for example, the ABO trope). Fans who insist the works must meet their beauty standards, rejecting those that fail (for example, if the leads are not good looking enough) by claiming they’re there for Danmei, not Danchou (耽醜, “over-indulgence on ugliness”). Fans who are drawn to the genre by a combination of these characterisations.

By the history and definition of the genre, all the above reasons for fanning Danmei are as valid, as legitimate as one another.

I thought about this related question then: are c-fans of the second (traditional BL characterisation) and third (aesthetic characterisation) groups homophobic? When I first asked this question, I—a fan whose fandom experience had been entirely in English-speaking communities—assume the answer was yes. I thought, in particular, the insistence of treating Danmei’s M/M couples as cishet couples in a homosexual shell had to be conscious queer erasure. How can anyone ignore the same-sexness of the leads? How can anyone talk about Danmei without associating it with homosexuality?

However, as I read more—again, specifically about c-fandom, and in Chinese—I realised the answer may be a little more complex.

Previously, I had largely thought about homophobia in terms of individual attitudes. This has to do with my current environment (liberal parts of the United States), in which the choice to accept or reject the queer community has become a close to personal choice. Pride flags fly all over the city, including the city hall, every summer, and most churches welcome the LGBT+ community. I hadn’t considered how an environment in which queers have never enjoyed full social exposure, in which education of related topics is sorely lacking, would affect Danmei’s development as a genre.

In such an environment, it is difficult for Danmei to evolve and incorporate up-to-date understanding of RL queerness.

The consequence I can see is this: Danmei is more likely to be “stuck” in its historical characterisation as (het) women’s fantasy inside than outside the Great Firewall, with its queerness de-emphasised if not erased—and it draws fans who are attracted to this kind of characterisation accordingly. This is, perhaps, reflected by the fact that the (het) women-to-queer ratio of Danmei / BL fans is significantly higher in China than in the West (Table 1 in this article summarises how Danmei / BL fans have split between different genders and sexual orientation in the Sinosphere vs the West in different research studies).

Another driving force I can see for Danmei to retain BL’s traditional feminist and aesthetic characterisations: women in China are not free from the social pressure that led to the birth of BL in 1970’s Japan. While many of them have achieved financial freedom through work and have high education, the young and educated have been subjected to immense pressure to get married and have children especially in the past decade.

In 2007, the China’s state feminist agency, the All-China Women’s Federation (中華全國婦女聯合會), coined the term 剩女 (literally, “leftover women”) for unmarried, urban women over 27 years old. The government started a campaign that, among other things, associated women’s education level with ugliness, and their unmarried status with pickiness, moral degeneracy. The reason behind the campaign: birth rates are plummeting and the state wants educated women, in particular, to nurture a high quality, next generation workforce. More importantly, the government sees a threat in the M/F sex imbalance (high M, low F) that has commonly been attributed to the country’s “one child policy” between 1979-2015, which encouraged female infanticide / abortion of female foetuses in a culture that favours surname-carrying boys. The state fears the unmarried men will become violent and/or gay, leading to “social instability and insecurity”. Therefore, it wants all women, in particular those who are educated, to enter the “wife pool” for these unmarried men. (Source 1, Source 2: Source 2 is a short, recommended read).

For Chinese women, therefore, patriarchy and sexism is far from over. Escapist fantasies where sexism is removed—by removing women from the picture—are therefore here to stay.

Danmei is therefore not queer literature (同志文學). The difference between Danmei and queer literature is highlighted by this reportedly popular saying (and its similar variations) in some Danmei communities:

異性戀只是傳宗接代，同性戀才是真愛 Heterosexuality is only for reproduction. Only homosexuality is true love.

The attitude towards heterosexuality is one of distaste, viewed as a means to an end the speaker has no interest in. On the contrary, homosexuality is idealised, reflecting the disregard / lack of understanding of some Danmei fans have towards the RL hardships of c-queers. The ignorance may be further propagated by gate-keeping by some Danmei fans for safety reasons, keeping queer discussions away from their communities for fear that their favourite hangouts would meet the same uncertain fate of other communities that previously held open queer discussions, such as the Weibo gay and lesbian supertopics. Such gatekeeping can, again, be easily enforced using tradition as argument: the beauty 美 is Tanbi and Danmei (耽美), remember, includes the beauty of utopia, where ugly truths such as discrimination do not enter the picture. A Danmei that explores, for example, the difficulty of coming out of the closet is no longer Danmei, by its historical, aesthetic definition.

[I’ve therefore read about c-queers viewing Danmei with suspicion, if not downright hostility; they believe the genre, by ignoring their RL challenges and casting them as beautiful, even perfect individuals, and in some cases, by fetishising them and their relationships, only leads to more misconceptions about the queer community. Dangai, meanwhile, has been viewed with even more distaste as potential weapons by the state to keep gays in the closet; if the government can shove the Danmei characters into the “socialist brotherhood” closet, it can shove them as well.

I haven’t yet, however, been able to tease out the approximate fraction of c-queers whose views of Danmei and Dangai is negative. The opposing, positive view of the genres is this: they still provide LGBT+ visibility, which is better than none and it would’ve been close to none without Danmei and Dangai; while Danmei may skim over the hardships of being queer, fan works of Danmei are free to explore them—and they have.

This article provides insights on this issue. @peekbackstage’s conversation with a Chinese film/TV director in Clubhouse is also well worth a read.]

That said, Danmei can only be dissociated from the queer characterisation if there’s a way to talk about the genre without evoking words and phrases that suggest homosexuality—something that is difficult to do with English. Is there?

In Chinese, I’d venture to say … almost. There’s almost a way. Close enough to pass.

The fact that M/M in traditional BL has been developed and viewed not as queer but as a removal of F also means this: queerness isn’t “built-in” into the language of Danmei. The name Danmei itself already bypasses a major “queer checkpoint”: it’s impossible to refer to a genre called Boy’s Love and not think about homosexuality.

Here’s one more important example of such bypass. Please let me, as an excuse to put these beautiful smiles in my blog, show this classic moment from TU; this can be any gif in which the leads are performing such suggestive romantic gestures:

How can I describe this succinctly? In English?

Two men acting in love? Er. That’s… the definition of gay, almost.

Two men acting gay? Well. GAY.

Right. Fine. Let’s go negative. Queerbaiting? … Still gay, because the word “queer” is in there.

[Pie note: for the record, I don’t think TU or WoH is queer-baiting.]

Personally, I find it impossible to describe the GIF above in English that I do not automatically associate with RL romantic love between two men, with homosexuality. But can I do it in Chinese?

… Yes.

There’s a term, 賣腐 (pronounced “maifu”), literally, “selling 賣 the rot 腐”, derived from the term known among i-fans as fujoshi and written, in kanji, as 腐女. Fujoshi, or 腐 (“rot”) 女 (“women”), describes the largely (het) female audience of the Japanese BL genre (>80%, according to Wikipedia). Originated as a misogynistic insult towards female Japanese BL fans in the 2000s, fujoshi was later reclaimed by the same female BL fans who now use the self-depreciative term as acknowledgement of their interest being “rotten”, for BL’s disregard of the society’s traditional expectations on women.

賣腐 is therefore to “sell the rot” to the rotten women; ie. the suggestive romantic gestures, exemplified by the GIF above, between the M/M leads are catering, performing fan service to their target audience.

[賣腐 is also a term one will see in the state opinion pieces.]

There’s nothing gay about this term.

I’ve therefore found it possible to talk and think in Chinese about Danmei while giving little thought to queerness. The history and definition of Danmei allow that.

Again, I’m not saying any of this to excuse homophobia among in Danmei and Dangai fandoms. The point I’m trying to make is this — given that Danmei has three potential characterisations, two of which can be discussed without abundantly evoking queer concepts and vocabularies, given that history of Danmei, as a genre, already favoured characterisation 2 (traditional BL), the government addressing homosexuality in its opinions on Danmei and Dangai is far from a given.

By extension, the popularity of Dangai may mean a lot or little to c-queers; by extension, the state can approve / disapprove of Danmei and Dangai in a manner independent of its stance on homosexuality, which is itself inconsistent and at times, logic-deying (example to come…).

This is both good and bad, from the perspective of both the government and the c-queer community.

For the government: as discussed, the “triality” of Danmei allows the state to “move the goalpost” depending on what it tries to achieve. It has characterisations 2 (the traditional BL characterisation) and 3 (the aesthetic characterisation) as excuses to let Dangai dramas pass the censorship board should it want their profit and also, their promise of expanding the country’s soft power overseas by drawing an international audience. These characterisations also allow the state to throw cold water on the popularity of Danmei / Dangai should it desire, for reasons other than its queer suggestions—despite the Xi regime’s push against open expressions of queerness (including by activism, in media), it has also been careful about not demonising c-queers in words, and has countered other people’s attempts to do so.

Why may the government want to throw cold water on Danmei and Dangai? They are still subculture, which the state has also viewed with suspicion. In 2018, a NRTA directive explicitly requested that “c-ent programmes should not use entertainers with tattoos; (those associated with) hip-hop culture, sub-cultures (non-mainstream cultures), decadent cultures.” (”另外，总局明确要求节目中纹身艺人、嘻哈文化、亚文化（非主流文化）、丧文化（颓废文化）不用。”).

Subculture isn’t “core socialist values”. More importantly, it’s difficult to keep up with and control subculture. 環球網, the website co-owned by People’s Daily and Global Times (環球時報), ie, The State Newspaper and The State Tabloid, famously said this on its Weibo, on 2020/03/04, re: 227:

老了，没看懂为什么战。晚安。 Getting old. Can’t figure out what the war is about. Good night.

The State also cannot stop subculture from happening. It doesn’t have the resources to quell every single thing that become popular among its population of 1.4 billion. What it can do to make sure these subcultures stay subcultures, kept out of sight and mind of the general public.

Characterisation 1 (the queer characterisation), meanwhile, remains available to the state should it wish to drop the axe on Dangai for its queer elements. I’m including, as “queer elements”, presentation of men as too “feminine” for the state—which has remained a sore point for the government. This axe have a reason to drop in the upcoming months: July 23rd, 2021 will be the 100th birthday of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and the state may desire to have only uniformed forces and muscled, gun-toting “masculine” men gracing the screens.

What about for c-queers and their supporters (including group I fans)? What good and bad can the multiple characterisations of the genres do for them?

For c-queers and their supporters (including group I fans), their acceptance and safety are helped by the Dangai genre, by the Dangai 101 phenomenon, if and only if the state both characterises the queer elements in these dramas as queer (characterisation 1) AND their opinions of them are positive.

Personally, I had viewed this to be unlikely from the start, because a queer characterisation would mean the censorship board has failed to do its job, which is embarrassing for the Chinese government.

Characterisations 2) and 3) are not bad for c-queers and their supporters, however, and definitely not “enemies” of Characterisation 1); they can not only serve as covers for the queer elements in Dangai to reach their audience, but also, they can act as protective padding for the LGBT+ community if the content or (very aggressive) marketing of the Dangai dramas displease the government — with the understanding, again, that the “traditional BL” arm of the Danmei community is itself also highly vulnerable by being a subculture, and so its padding effect is limited and it also deserves protection.

The downside to achieving LGBT+ visibility through Dangai is, of course and as mentioned, that these dramas are, ultimately, deeply unrealistic depictions of the c-queers. The promotion of these dramas, which has focused on physical interactions between the male leads for “candies”, can encourage even more fetishising of queers and queer relationships. The associated (character) CP culture that makes and breaks CPs based on the dramas’ airing cycle may also fuel negative perception of queer relationships as attention-seeking behaviour, something that can be initiated and terminated at will and for the right price.

Finally, with all this said, which characterisation(s) have the government taken re: Dangai and/or WOH? And what opinions has it given to its characterisations?

PART 1 <-- YOU ARE HERE PART 2 PART 3

#pie metas #yizhan #bjyx

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itoldsunset · 3 years

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so i never posted this but a while ago i translated parts of this podcast episode (linking it here just so y’all know where it’s from, but there are no subs) where they’re talking about thai bl and the lgbtq community.

a lot of this is stuff we already talk about in the fandom but i wanted to share this since we consume a lot of thai content/bl here and i like hearing directly from lgbtq folks in thailand too:

there’s very little representation of various sexual orientations in thai bls, such as pansexuality and bisexuality.

most thai bl series are adapted from bl novels, which are essentially fantasies written so that people can access some happiness they don’t get in real life. because of the fantasy-like nature of these novels, it doesn’t always translate well to the screen, especially if the series producers didn’t make an effort to adapt the script. so that’s why sometimes the story is weird or the lines have a cartoonlike quality when they’re being delivered.

beauty privilege still plays a huge role in bl series. what we see happen is usually, the series can be whatever, but we hear “please support the actors, they’re good-looking,” whereas the content of the series often isn’t the thing that gets praised. and after the series ends, oftentimes the thing that remains is the image of the actors, not the series itself.

homophobia: “i’m not gay, i just like you”--it doesn’t make sense, being gay doesn’t mean you love every man in the world. they try to paint it in a romantic light in the sense of polyamory, like you only love this one person, but it ends up confusing people on what it means to be gay.

sexual harassment: not just in bl, but in all thai series and has been there for a while. like when one character puts their face up really close against another character who’s not into it, but the audience expects in their minds that they’re gonna end up together so some may allow it. and some also allow it because they’re attractive.

heteronormativity + gender roles, top/bottom dynamics: thai bls usually have the more feminine character be the one who is passively being pursued/hit on. part of this is because the writers are usually women and end up writing characters who are closest to them, as part of creating their fantasy. thai bls also replicate the gender binary in that there’s a tendency to have one person (the “top”) be the one to go out to work more, while the other one tends to do household chores, cook, etc. also, one of them mentioned having been approached by a woman who asked him who was the top/bottom in his relationship, and he said he felt like, “why is that question necessary? we’re the same gender, we’re both men.” he said we need to disconnect gender expression (femininity/masculinity) from sex positions (top/bottom), since one doesn’t necessarily reflect on the other.

also some comparison to yaoi (since that’s the origin) and they mentioned some research about how yaoi was born out of escapism from being part of an oppressed gender so that you could escape into a fantasy where you were as equal as possible in the fiction.

the term ‘y series’ (bl) is a way of avoiding saying gay or queer, reinforces the fantasy nature of the genre that it’s not about what it actually means for men who like men, and it tends not to explore their experiences beyond ‘i have a crush on you’--focuses on the gratification of shipping/imagination more than anything else.

do boys’ love dramas help the lgbtq community? thailand has so many bl series, so people might think thailand is accepting of lgbtq folks, but is that true?: “we can look at who makes up the majority of the fanbase, and we see that it’s mostly women. when the stories are about relationships between men, why are there fewer mlm fans than women?”

do bls hurt the lgbtq community?: in terms of reproducing stereotypes, like the way trans women are often depicted; also, the tendency of thai television (including bls) to devalue feminine men by using them as comic relief, so if you’re a man with a feminine gender expression, you have to be funny, you have to be obsessed with men, you have to entertain others, you have to exaggerate your femininity.

the treatment of women in thai bls: if they’re not just extras who are holding signs and screaming for the male leads, they’re the third person or the obstacle. even if they’re not doing anything wrong, they’re made into the person that the audience will hate. it’s as if there are no women allowed in bls because the presence of a woman will break the fantasy.

the bl industry is profiting off of a group of people who are still oppressed in society. as bl audiences, you can’t just consume bl for your own fantasies/personal satisfaction without thinking about what it means for the communities that are being impacted.

#thai bl #thai bls #textpost #other translations #lgbtq representation #media representation #my favorite way to waste time is scouring the internet for thai media critiques

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half-filled-inkpot · 3 years

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Go Stream Your Name Engraved Herein NOW

I’m tired of people dismissing the depth and beauty of works because they don’t understand the cultural and historical context and are unwilling to delve deeper. I’ve heard the vocal confusion and dismissal of the short film Bao and the complaints that the Mahjong scene in Crazy Rich Asians was too long and too difficult to understand for people who’ve never played Mahjong. But I won’t let this mentality negatively frame the reception of Your Name Engraved Herein. I’ve read too many interpretations of the movie that will influence how many people will watch it and hinder appreciation for it and I cannot sit idly by. So here’s why I appreciated and loved Your Name Engraved Herein and think that what other people interpreted as shortcomings are actually in fact strengths.

In 2019, Taiwan approved same-sex marriage, marking a step of progress in Asia. Reviews of the film Your Name Engraved Herein view that this forward direction should be celebrated more throughout the film, believing that the heavy mood and painful scenes of bigotry hindered the potential of the film. Many have thought that the toxic values of the past dominated the film’s atmosphere, casting a somber mood and making it difficult to stomach. But I think these elements were essential in reminding us that not everyone had the opportunity to love openly and celebrate, and although Taiwan has made progress, what about those that grew up under a time where such rights were denied?

I think the film is an intimate and beautiful homage to the people who lived through such a difficult time and had to fight for such rights--the director’s own experiences, the reference to activist Chi Chia-wei. Despite the tough topics and the painful bullying that we see, I think the film ends with beautiful light and hope.

Spoilers ahead

Where critically acclaimed and famous Taiwanese films like Us and Them and You Are the Apple of My Eye use flashbacks to create an air of nostalgia and to remind us that maybe all we have to share is our past, untouchable memories, Your Name Engraved Herein uses flashbacks and time leaps to instead paint a more hopeful future. Their first love was an epic story. It’s painful realizing that they never got the same privilege as so many of us to have a happy family or spend life together, growing old. But where the protagonists in Us and Them and You Are the Apple of My Eye only have the past, our Jia-Han and Birdy have the future for the taking. Jia-Han’s younger self once held reservation and denial but he has instead transformed into one willing to accept his love and act on it, searching for Birdy despite the years. Despite the time and distance, they still share the same lively and youthful banter. While one may interpret the ending scene of what could’ve been and what they were cheated of, I like to think of it as a reunion instead. They are finally able to return to maybe the most tumultuous but also happiest time of their life. Now, with the recent change in Taiwan, they finally have a chance to make more memories together.

I loved the framing of the story and think it demanded audience engagement. The movie opens with Jia-Han meeting Birdy. We then see that Jia-Han is reminiscing about his story with Birdy to the priest from Montreal that works at the Catholic all-boy’s boarding school. Immediately, Jia-Han’s and Birdy’s connection is apparent. They have furtive glances, genuine concern, and intimate moments. Birdy at first seems free-spirited, without fear of the opinions of others and authority. He’s vocal, righteous, and a bit rebellious. Jia-Han, in contrast, is more timid, constantly aware of the opinions of others and the rules. While he knows what is wrong and feels bad about it, he often follows or acts as a complacent party. But as Birdy and Jia-Han witness the detaining of activist Chi Chia-wei, we see that Birdy is more introspective and serious, unable to turn a blind-eye of the issues still prevalent despite the recent end of martial law in Taiwan. And Jia-Han, in the presence of Birdy, is more carefree and happy. It’s as if they have switched and turned off their outside persona. Birdy’s impulsivity gives Jia-Han joy and only Jia-Han’s presence can qualm Birdy’s inner thoughts and worries. We get to see how these characters deeply value each other. As the evening sets and the world around falls to slumber, it feels as if they are the only ones in the world and we, as viewers, are fully immersed in their story. The cinematography is halting as we see them zoom around in the city alone, untouched and in their own worlds.

Jia-Han feels as if the world revolved only around them. So when Ban-Ban walks into the picture, I was awed by Jia-Han’s portrayal of jealousy and felt his pain because he was unable to walk by the side of Birdy in the way that he wanted to. The actor’s body language sells a stellar performance, but it is the dialogue and outburst at the father who is attempting to tend to Jia-Han’s wounds that show Jia-Han’s raw and powerful emotions. Whether or not it was intentional by the director, I think at this moment we question the timeline and framing of the story. What events led up to this moment with Jia-Han’s major head wound? When the priest says “If he doesn’t love you, don’t force him to” and “care doesn’t necessarily mean love,” I was stunned by this exchange, thinking that it was quite evident that Birdy and Jia-Han had love for each other. But then it made me ponder if this narrative told only from Jia-Han’s point of view was a deliberate choice made for us to question perspective and reality, how our vision becomes tainted when our feelings are involved. The powerful performance and film raised such immediate questions, causing wonder as we viewed the film in real time instead of afterwards, which made for a delightful and thought-provoking experience.

In a truly climatic point, we finally see how all of the events led to the current moment. We see how Jia-Han gets a head injury and how the priest becomes his confidant. This pivotal mark not only has an approximately two hour momentum, but it is also powerfully performed by our two leads who at this point are passionate, protective, and broken-hearted. We witness a full range of love. Initially, at the beginning, we saw subtle and restrained affection, fleeting touches, and silent companionship. But as the story progresses, we see that these feelings can no longer be bottled. There are moments of visible and passionate concern and instinctual attempts at protection. This development shows the complexity, beauty, and pain of love. It is truly a breath-taking thing to see come alive on screen. While Jia-Han at this point becomes ready to vocalize and admit his feelings, Birdy is unable to and their lives diverge.

A time leap gives us privy to Jia-Han’s closure. After he visits the resting grounds of the priest from his high-school days, he is able to offer his support to who is hinted to be the priest’s lover, reassuring that he was a good man, that the love was true, and that he will go to heaven. The reveal that the priest is gay encourages viewers to rewatch the dialogue with this new information to help drive our new interpretations.

Already, I have re-watched this tear-jerking film a number of times. The steady pacing makes each scene seem essential despite the long 1 hour and 54 minute run time. Yet it passes quickly and we are left yearning for more. Aesthetically pleasing, the beautiful shots underscored by the accompanying, swelling music provide stunning visuals. As the camera focuses on the two leads, their outbursts don’t appear as overly done or too dramatic. Rather, the performances feel heart-breakingly real. In part, I think this is built on the focus on the details. The camera seems to linger a little longer on the faces of the actors, making us fully digest what they are conveying to us. This attention to detail highlights everything spoken and unspoken.

I highly recommend this film. It reminds us that not everyone is fortunate and we all still have room for progress. But simultaneously it is tender and heart-warming, moving and touching, poignant and thoughtful. The powerful dynamic between the leads, the artistic filming, and the strong performance elevate this film to a truly inspiring, epic love story. Everything about it feels deliberate, personal and handcrafted gift for us to truly treasure. So I will cherish it and share it and I hope you do too.

#Jia-Han #birdy #your name engraved herein

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lesbiancolumbo · 2 years

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jj is one hundred percent part of the game. i find it funny how much their game is about the weird detached cruel facade but it always implies their familiarity and care. which of course are also weird and cruel but in a very different way. and how sidney's relationship with jj is definitely a large reason of why he's so evil all of the time but he also falls short of true monsterousness precisely for it, given that desire and that conversation and that kind of half admiration half love half distaste is very human. and he's very much learning to walk the walk still and he's not quite yet fluent in that extortion-manipulation-violence sort of dialect. but then on the other hand you have jj who is very much the master of the house and visibly has an edge and a ruthlessness to him. which perhaps somewhat surprisingly means he doesn't need the secrecy and many faced beauty sidney uses and that almost everyone knows not only that he's not someone you want to be an enemy to but also that he's kinda straight up evil and violent. where sidney relies on coming off as disarming jj comes in guns blazing because jj is powerful and so far removed from anything even resembling morality that he isn't gonig to and doesn't want to bother. big fan of him and his liarman act also on an acting note i love the way burt lancaster always plays very physical characters (not in the sense that he's big and strong though don't get me wrong im a fan of that #gay rights to me i mean in the sense that his characters always move and position themselves in very specific ways and that a lot of his acting doesn't necessarily hinge on his voice or expression but rather pn his movement and pose or lack thereof. which is a style i greatly enjoy) and jj is so physically and viscerally held back. like you can tell on him that he is extrmely intentional in his manner.

they're kinda like, they both saw snakes. and sidney was like, i'm going to be the king of slithering and shedding skin. and jj was like i'm sitting in the sun and i have so much venom and i am so so good at biting. and they both sucked. and they're in love❤️ isn't it grand.

i’ve been thinking about this for hours now anon. you get it…….. youuuuuuuu get it.

there’s a good essay on burt that is on my blog i’m just at work and can’t track it down rn but it’s about his physicality as an actor specifically his hands and the most notable thing about jay to ME and to this author was that like. jj is so fucking still all the time. he sits in a moment of silence while he thinks he doesn’t scramble all over the place like sidney does. he seems to glide right across the scene the way mrs danvers does in rebecca - he is the exact opposite of sidney’s (and tony’s, because that was a very clear acting choice he made knowing burt was playing it this way) nervous energy.

anyways i am insane now <3

#asks

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that-stone-butch · 3 years

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Hi can I ask for some general advice? I’m femme and single and every day that I don’t have a lovely butch in a leather jacket smooching me is another day wasted. I just want a older butch to call me sweetheart, change my oil, and roll us a joint while I make them dinner while wearing a pretty dress so when I bend over they can see I’m not wearing anything underneath! Is that so much to ask!! Where are they?? How do I flirt with butches when my friend turns into Silly Putty around hot women?

Or, more specially, how would YOU like a femme to approach you/ask you out/express interest? Granted, most of it is online at the beginning, cause there aren’t very many if any queer spaces in my area that are open, and even then they were 97% gay men anyway. I’m very much a bottom and a sub so being the one to break the ice and get the ball rolling is very strange and difficult for me, but I also know that a lot of butches can be shy at first so I gotta Just Do It. Help me Jasper, you’re my only hope….. to get laid.

I'M your only hope? oh NO! i'll do my best! obviously i'm not every butch but i'll do my best to bring my perspective into this. i've never participated in hookups and casual sex, all of my flirting experiences have been geared towards building a relationship. but for the most part, i'd wager the 'showing someone you're interested' credits transfer. on that note, if anyone has input on more casual experiences, i genuinely invite them to add on to this post.

okay so it seems like we should separate the advice into online flirting, and irl flirting. let's start with online.

it's always better to make a good first impression rather than come on too strong, in my experience. start with a compliment, keep it light and respectful. in general, i find that the best compliments are things that someone *chose*. as someone who gets constant online 'compliments' (spoiler alert it's actually catcalling), i'm NEVER flattered when someone opens with talking about my body. 'your jawline is incredible' isn't the ice breaker it sounds like; maybe i'm self-conscious about my jawline! you don't know, you're literally introducing yourself with this. like so many people compare me to men and male actors, and they think i'm going to take it as a compliment? the very POINT of opening with a compliment is that you DON'T know what people do and don't like about themselves. maybe you like tall girls, but just because you do doesn't mean the person you're interested in is proud of the fact they're tall. ESPECIALLY in trans and gnc spaces, you just don't know what relationship strangers are going to have with their own bodies, and opening with that is just going to display a level of entitlement that is a bit of a turn-off, personally. so compliment people on things they chose, like their attire or aesthetic or tastes. it's really flattering to hear someone say 'hey, i also like that thing you *chose* to make part of your whole deal.' from there it might be the case that someone likes and enjoys hearing compliments about things they didn't necessarily choose, but you really should test the waters first.

additionally, compliments like this break the ice because it's also a thing you would say to a friend? it's my experience that good relationships always grow from good friendships. even if your conversations don't end up in a relationship, or casual sex or whatever, you can still end up with a friend which is a great thing (butch/femme friendships are something we don't talk about a whole lot as a community, because we focus a LOT on sex, but they're life-changing like my femme friends make my fucking day). it can be difficult online to make your intentions known; you don't have the subtext, body language, all the things that help you further communicate your intentions in person. that's why, online, it's good to make your intentions known after you've built up a good rapport with someone. strike up conversation, find things in common, and after a little bit it's perfectly respectful and okay to tell someone you're interested in them. however, and i cannot stress this enough, do NOT be vague about your intentions online. at least in my case, it's very easy to misinterpret people over text. (who am i kidding, tumblr is the internet capital of people misinterpreting each other). be plain about your intentions. from there you might talk logistics, trade phone numbers (use encryption! use signal!), agree to focus on building a friendship together, part ways, etc. get to know people, ask them questions about themselves, show them you're engaged and interested.

i want to take a second here, especially for younger people reading this, just because someone is gay and/or you're into them doesn't mean you should be unsafe with your information. play it close to the chest, if you're going to meet up meet up in a neutral location. DON'T meet people from the internet in your home, or theirs. exchanging addresses is something to do well after you know you're in a safe situation. ALWAYS be ready to bail. be safe.

as for in-person, i'm sorry to say but in my experience you ARE likely going to have to make the first move. for a lot of butches (and femmes) being out and about is kind of a gender battleground. the LAST thing i want to do is make someone uncomfortable, especially as a masc woman. a misread signal can be dangerous. additionally, i want to say you should NEVER hit on someone who can't leave the situation. never hit on someone just doing their job (unless they're stating very clear intentions toward you from their position. it's sometimes okay to flirt *back* with people on the clock, but still give them space to back off) because you're putting them in a VERY uncomfortable situation.

in-person flirting for wlw is kind of fraught with some difficulty in that you need to signal that you're gay. for me, as a butch, if someone hits on me and they don't signal very hard that they're gay, i'm left wondering if they even knew i was a woman. i've had straight girls hit on me, it's the weirdest fucking thing. now, i'm not equating femme presentation with looking plausibly straight or whatever femmephobic brainrot is floating around out there, femmes ARE gnc and do so in a unique and beautiful way. but being wlw, especially what feels often like a 'gender outlaw,' you're often plagued with self-doubt. sometimes it's easier to believe you're misreading someone as gay and they were just being friendly (or just being friendly AND are gay, as i said earlier that happens and that's a GOOD thing).

i find, in person, it's a good idea to open with a compliment that specifically recognizes someone's butch presentation. if someone says 'i love your hair, by the way' i'm IMMEDIATELY in blush mode. it feels so good to be recognized when i'm out and about, when so many people just decide i'm a man to validate their own worldview, or think they have to compensate for my presentation, assure me no i'm pretty i look very feminine, to validate me as a woman. meeting someone in-person, that you're interested in, it's validating and refreshing to just be seen and shown that someone's interested in the way i'm putting a lot of effort into presenting.

that said, never push people. if you see someone at a coffee shop, campus diner, bookstore, etc. that you're interested in, as with online it's a good idea to aim to leave a good impression. chances are, you might see that person again. i'd rather have someone see me, flirt a little, and then approach me *again* the next time they see me, then go all-in intense the first time. obviously it's smart to play it by ear but if you feel like you're coming on too strong, it's a good idea to back up a little. but that's just me.

above all, remember to have fun with it! flirting is fun, and if you're trying to tactically align your flirting with someone too hard toward a relationship, it kind of loses a little something? i find it's usually a good idea to approach people with the genuine intention of making a connection, and seeing where that takes the two of you, rather than trying to *get* someone to reciprocate. keep it fun! keep it light!

i hope that helps! i'm sorry i don't have more experience, if anyone has something to add, they're welcome to!

#ask #advice #anonymous #long post

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variousqueerthings · 3 years

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some thoughts on queerness in narrative (using cobra kai as a main point)

1. intro

It’s interesting getting to engage with pop culture right now versus even five years ago, where there was something kinda sordid and undercover about queer reads of text and even just talking about being into stuff very passionately while being queer in spaces that included creators was considered somehow icky (supernatural is always a good example, but definitely was just the most visible of these types of interactions between fans and cast/creators). Obviously that’s where a lot of modern definitions about queerbaiting and bury your gays comes from.

A lot of this kind of drama centred on queer ships rather than queer characters in their own right (dean/castiel, merlin/arthur, derek/styles and maaaan just a lot of white brunette/blond pairings, which is another post and I acknowledge that Lawrusso is also literally that... the irony)

But also this isn’t so much about “shipping.”

There’s a danger of flattening out the ways in which we create a dialogue with text when it becomes just about whether or not our ships become canon (in general the way fandom discourse revolves around ships can be incredibly unhelpful for engaging critically with text) – for context I am queer and I’m queer through my transness and aromanticness and asexuality, and I also write a fair bit of shippy fanfiction and analysis, but personally am not (always) thaaat bothered about how the connections with queer-coded people are realised in text, as long as those connections are acknowledged in a queer way. How that works varies from text to text. There is no one-size fits all proper queer representation.

An example: SE Hinton (because I just read The Outsiders/watched the movie) being really dismissive of people reading her characters as gay on twitter (why do we ever try to do this sort of deep textual analysis on twitter, why do creators – like Hinton – think that they ought to espouse opinions on twitter, why twitter folx?)

I wrote – kinda for the void, because I write a lot and I like posting some of that on tumblr, but I don’t expect people to engage necessarily – about how The Outsiders is absolutely a queer text, whether or not the creator intended for it to be. Long story short, queerness has been – and often still is – illegal and/or frowned upon in canon text, so a semiotics was created to make something queer if you knew how to read it. The fact that cis-straight creators play with and use those semiotics without knowing doesn’t negate the fact that that language is there and was deliberately created for that purpose.

That also doesn’t make it queerbaiting. Maybe cis-straight dumbassery, idk (wouldn’t be if you just went “huh, didn’t think about that, cool read”)

Intentionally playing with and acknowledging those semiotics also isn’t necessarily queerbaiting.

Definitely queercoding though.

Anyway this is all a bit murky territory, so let’s talk about Cobra Kai, my current little obsession, and about Star Trek, my always-obsession. Time-was you could get sued for your Star Trek fanfiction. Nowadays that fanfiction can get turned into a for-fun zoom play and read out loud by the two actors who played the original characters (Alexander Siddig and Andy Robinson). This is very fun, new territory for a lot of us.

Meanwhile Hayden Schlossberg and the other writers of Cobra Kai are openly aware of the fact that lots of people read their lead characters – Daniel LaRusso and Johnny Lawrence - as probably bisexual (and probably as in love) and are on good terms with several active members of fandom and fic-writing. This is… so fucking fun. And it doesn’t have that weird overtone of shit like Teen Wolf (“We’re on a ship” winky-face, followed by that about heel-turn “just think it’s weird and strange” or however tf it was described later on - that shit: definitely queerbaiting).

In Star Trek there’s a slim-to-none chance that these characters will ever become canonically queer in the main text, but the acknowledgement and the light-hearted open engagement with it makes such a massive difference (not that Siddig and Robinson weren’t talking openly about it as far back as the 90s).

In Cobra Kai there is no obligation to make Johnny or Daniel canonically bi because there’s been no promise to do so – there is, in my opinion, an obligation to create a world in which queerness exists and not just on the sidelines. In the same way as there’s an obligation to generally create a world that accurately depicts what LA looks like in multiple other ways (cough, not mainly white, cough). If a part of that were through exploring how 80s era toxic heteronormative masculinity could throw people deep into the closet for most of their lives, hey, that’d be a neat storyline (such a neat fucking storyline), but it’s not the only way to do it.

While I do like canonically queer couples in stories, I also think it’d really limit what queerness can do for a text if that were the only way it was represented - sure I ship Lawrusso, but I find the above-mentioned analysis of toxic masculinity’s effects on the characters-as-queer-coded to go much deeper than whether or not they get together.

I also would love trans and/or other-gender characters - we all know Johnny needs his “gender-what?” ignorance challenged and the potential for characters like that to fit into a narrative around trauma, loneliness, and misfit-families is kinda perfect (and when I say characters, I mean that plural, we’re not a one-size fits all).

Lastly I think there is also an obligation to do exactly what the showrunners are doing - what didn’t happen with Hinton or SPN or Teen Wolf or Star Trek of yore or so much other popular fiction: say, oh yeah, that language is absolutely there, we recognise it, we can read it and it’s not weird or sordid or something to be judged. So that’s already a massive thumbs up/promising start.

4. some final thoughts:

Idk where all this’ll go. I’m still missing a lot of canonically queer representation - and when I say representation I mean more than just shoving in a queer character into a scene and not thinking about how that affects the world that’s been established. But I’m feeling a lot better about queerness and story than I used to.

I’m hoping that whatever comes moving forwards in culture in general it’ll have some thought put into it. I’m hoping that queerness and queer allegory and coding will be recognised more and more as important reads of text and will go into informing how something is made (Hannibal, Black Sails, Sense8, Pose). I’m just hoping this’ll mean some interesting, intelligent, wildly varied narratives.

Just very excited.

#cobra kai #lawrusso #johnny lawrence #daniel larusso #my writing #garashir #ds9 #st: ds9 #julian bashir #elim garak #alexander siddig #andy robinson #i made an on purpose choice here to talk about m/m ships in my examples #to be very Precise in my comparisons #funnily enough all four shows i mention at the very end have more (and all canon) queer rep than that #i also had a tangent about the current weird discourse on what-you're-morally-allowed-to-ship but that isn't quite the point here #although in general i will reiterate that i find the focus on shipping to be very unhelpful and limiting and y'all need history lessons

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itsfunorwhateva · 3 years

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Sweet Creature

Hi! I’m back with some more of an analysis type post! I hope this helps with a deeper understanding. I’ve provided sources where I got my information. I really tried to set this up and write this in a very informational/analysis way so it isn’t strictly an opinion. Also I want to say I haven’t read the entirety of Othello, but I have read some scenes and read complete analysis of the play to write this. Without further ado... Sweet Creature.

While it seems that some people have a general understanding that Sweet Creature by Harry Styles references the tragedy, Othello written by William Shakespeare, most people don’t get why that is huge, not only in terms of Harry making this decision, but also in support of Sweet Creature being about Louis Tomlinson.

So I’m going to break this into three parts to help make this make the most sense.

1. The reference Harry Styles makes in his song, to the play Othello

2. Why an Othello reference is huge; more on the play

3. William Shakespeare and his sexuality/coding in other works

These will make more sense with further explanation(duh), but I’m hoping this will connect the dots. Also, a quick disclaimer before we begin, this information is coming off of google searches, and analysis that I’m reading, and some from information I researched for a research paper on William Shakespeare. I am in no way an expert on song analysis, literature analysis, or on William Shakespeare and his personal life. I really just hope to give people a base to start themselves on more research, and understanding of the topic. Happy reading!

1. The reference Harry Styles makes in his song, to the play Othello

Now there is not much to dig up or uncover here as the reference is actually pretty obvious. The term Sweet Creature, in which the song is titled, is said to have originated from the play Othello. Act 3, Scene 3, specifically is where the term of endearment (this is important to note, Sweet Creature is used as a term of loving, endearment) is first seen.

“In sleep I heard him say ‘Sweet Desdemona, Let us be wary, let us hide our loves.’ And then, sir, would he gripe and wring my hand, Cry ‘O sweet creature!’ and then kiss me hard“ (Othello III, iii ,428-432).

Some context for these lines of dialogue Act 3, Scene 3 is Iago telling Othello about his wife cheating on him. The scene has multiple instances of Iago expressing love for Othello, basically saying how Iago would not be telling Othello this if he didn’t love him so much. More on that for our next section. This first appearance of the term “sweet creature” is Iago telling Othello what he heard a man speak to Othello’s wife while the two were in bed together, all in a dream. Now the idea of cheating is not something to be too hung up on, but this is the context in which sweet creature first appears. While the term, Sweet Creature, is said form man to women - it is revealed to the husband from another man. Iago in which it is said may have homosexual desires/feeling towards Othello in this play. Personally I believe that Iago almost uses the term as a way to convince Othello that his wife is being loved by someone else, and maybe Othello should leave her to be with someone, like Iago, that could love him better.

Sources for this section!

Harry Styles References Othello in new Single, Sweet Creature

https://genius.com/a/harry-styles-references-shakespeare-s-othello-on-new-single-sweet-creature#:~:text=The%20song's%20title%2C%20%E2%80%9CSweet%20Creature,originate%20in%20William%20Shakespeare's%20Othello.

Othello play

https://www.sparknotes.com/nofear/shakespeare/othello/page_166/

2. Why an Othello reference is huge; more on the play

Deeper meanings behind the characters and the play obviously take a bit more time and effort to really understand. Depending on what angle and the kind of understanding you have about the characters and situation in Othello you’ll think one way or another. Othello is partially about homosexuality (in a way that it is not the whole plot, but it does play a major part if you understand the context/characters). Not everyone thinks this and it’s normally not brought in class discussion/normal educational settings, but the fact remains.

There are a few things throughout the plays that hint towards the characters sexualities. When looked at in the right light and context it can help make sense of not only Harry Styles’ reference, and way choosing Othello to reference is kind of a big deal, but also a better understanding of the play. One article writes, “In William Shakespeare’s The Tragedy of Othello the Moor of Venice Shakespeare leaves the character of Iago’s sexuality to be questioned. Although Iago has a wife, he drops slight hints throughout the play that he has homosexual thoughts or feelings toward other characters, but he uses his position in the military and his fear to suppress these feelings. These “hints” are shown through his wildly questionable story about Michael Cassio, his word choice when describing Othello, and his discourse with Rodrigo” (Homosexuality in Othello).

The character Iago is a military officer, and it shouldn’t take a genius to understand that being in the military and being homosexual only equal no good. The American policy in the military of “don’t ask, don’t tell” was/is a more modern day policy but still shows how military personal were/are expected and required to act in regards to being homosexual. Simply speaking, don’t. Now thinking even more to Shakespearean time, an even greater restriction was likely in place for homosexuality and the military. This part of the character, Iago, is likely a huge reason people overlook any thought of the character having homosexual desires/thoughts.

Even if you remove the circumstances surrounding Iago, and him being a military officer there are some others things throughout the play that hint towards possible homosexual desire/feelings. Iago is constantly informing Othello of his love for the other man, claiming to always be Othello’s, should he want him. Some of this can be chalked up to the language of the time, in being, love was used for both friend, and lover, but the extent in which Iago professes may hint towards something deeper. Others things include, Iago claiming to have “lay with” Cassio, another male character, and while some say this is simply in the barracks as fellow soldiers, others think this could have been to hint at being lovers.

One other thing that isn’t necessarily the play at face value, but still supports the idea of Iago being homosexual, is that actors throughout history have chosen to play him either as a straight or gay characters. While, this could simply be a creative decision based on an actor individually, it still seems a bit huge. If nothing in the text supported Iago being gay, there would not be actors playing him this way.

Sources for this section!

Homosexuality in Othello

https://www.cram.com/essay/Homosexuality-In-Othello/P3Z2W7LCX5Q

Is Iago Gay in Othello?

https://www.arogundade.com/homosexuality-in-shakespeare-is-iago-gay-in-othello.html

3. William Shakespeare and his sexuality/coding in other works

Final section is really just me helping you understand the feasibility of William Shakespeare writing his characters this way. There’s essentially two parts to understanding this and I’m going to try and help this make the most sense without going too overboard. One part is going to be how William Shakespeare has written other works. I’m going to focus more on his sonnets because I’ve already researched them for a paper in school, but they still stand with this point. The second part is going to be William Shakespeare’s own sexuality and why this is going to affect his written work.

Ok, so the sonnets.

“The sonnets have a contrasting set of subjects - one set chronicles the poet's lust for a married woman with a dark complexion, known as The Dark Lady, while the other describes a conflicted or confused love for a young man, known as the "fair youth."‘ (William Shakespeare, his Life, Works, and Influence).

So the sonnets were pretty revolutionary, exploring concepts such as love, lust, and even same sex relationships. This is observed in Shakespeare’s use of gender neutral terms and male pronouns, depending on the sonnet. This is pretty huge. When I did a sonnet analysis I chose two sonnets, which I’ll provide (Sonnet 18 and 29 - both are pretty well known and brought up in regarded to hidden messages/meanings). Both used pronouns that were either male or neutral, something that has been used forever to queer code in works, so do with that information what you will. A common analysis, is that William Shakespeare often wrote from personal experience, more so in his poems and sonnets, then in his plays, but nonetheless.

Second part, Shakespeare’s own sexuality. William Shakespeare was married to a women, but that doesn’t exactly say much. Men were known to get married because it is the thing to do, without necessarily having any feelings or desires towards said women.

When Shakespeare’s sexuality comes into question there a few things that are addressed. I definitely recommend reading the first source for this section, “Was Shakespeare Gay?”, it gives you a really good analysis and explores so many faucets of the question. I’m going to sum up the article and you can either read more or just take what I’ll explain.

The article explains that when looking at Shakespeare’s works he is really good at getting into the minds of his characters, without necessarily having the experience to match the character, i.e. writing from Cleopatra’s perspective, or from a gay man’s perspective. However on the flip side of that, when Shakespeare writes of same sex experiences, he seems to have a wide variety of knowledge of very specific references and experiences, maybe leaning towards him having these experiences. People point out that Shakespeare’s sonnets are his most personal works, and imagine that, they are also the ones that reference same sex attraction and love. Now of course there is way more in the source, but here’s what I think are the most important/key points. It’s important to remember that sexuality is only able to be labeled by the person, but from different works, and cultural ideals, there are certain things to be said about Shakespeare himself.

Sources for this section!

Was Shakespeare Gay?

https://www.shakespeare.org.uk/explore-shakespeare/podcasts/lets-talk-shakespeare/was-shakespeare-gay/

William Shakespeare, his Life, Works, and Influence

https://www.williamshakespeare.net/

Sonnet 18

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45087/sonnet-18-shall-i-compare-thee-to-a-summers-day

Sonnet 29

https://www.williamshakespeare.net/sonnet-29.js

Finally

Thank you for reading and I hope this made you think a bit. I want to repeat that I am in no way an expert, nor am I claiming to be. You are more than welcome to think whichever way you want about this information and I invite you to do your own further research. I hope this helped explain the reference and the importance of said reference in Harry Styles’, “Sweet Creature”. Thank you for reading, let me know what you think, and as always TPWK. xx

#harry styles #louis tomlinson #louis and harry #harry and louis #larry stylinson #larry is real #sweet creature #shakespeare #is shakespeare gay #queer coding

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hopefullystillatheatrestudent · 3 years

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okay so i’ve been going crazy these past few days. all about cockles/jensmish and obsessively watching their panels or reading the transcripts BECAUSE. THEY ARE LOUD. LIKE. i saw some fancams on twt and i thought people were just exaggerating but noooooooooo!!!???? so, getting to the point. you said that how do we know that jensen is performing masculinity? because jared isn’t and THAT IS A BIG BRAIN MOMENT. ON POINT. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. a particular moment from gag reel that jumps out (which you’ve talked about) when jensen goes ‘cas, you are my baby daddy’ and misha goes, ‘i know i love you too’ and jensen goes, ‘i didn’t say i love you’ and misha goes, ‘i know you wanted to’ and jensen says, ‘i love you’ WHAT THE FUCK! that was NOT a joke. yes, people took it as a joke and had a good laugh BUT I HAVE WATCHED IT TOO MANY TIMES AND IT LIVES IN MY MIND RENT FREE BECAUSE IT WAS NOT A PERFORMANCE. THAT WAS JENSEN. THAT WAS MISHA. jensen has a had trouble with the pda and being all touch feely (the breakup theory) and he gradually grew into it, accepted it and misha was right there all along, never pushed it. it was like a deancas au but tbh, 99% of destiel is because of cockles and we all know it. i just. jensen has latched onto dean as an emotional support because he tunes with it. understands it. projects on to it. yeah, i just had to say it and get it off my chest. (and what about those poetry pages on instagram? alma? what is your opinion?) btw, you have a lovely blog and your analysis are right on target.

so there is a LOT i’m going to address here(how dare you bring up [gunshot] i HAVE to talk about it now) so again!!!! under a cut it goes but i hope you appreciate my rambles anon it seems like you do :,)

1. jared vs. jensen and performing masculinity. hell yeah man. jared and jensen are both just ‘guys from texas’ but they are still so vastly different. today i actually had a revelation that i’m pretty sure has to do with me being bi. and it’s that i have a group of straight friends(that i love dearly but they care too much about hockey and pitbull imo could not be me) and i have a group of queer friends(who are also batshit[affectionate]). and it’s like whichever group i hang out with a different side of me emerges? they’re both me, it’s just that certain aspects of who i am as a person only surface depending on who i am around. however, i will say i feel like i watch what i say around my straight friends more. i see that very clearly in jensen as well. around jared during panels and on set, he’s definitely putting on an air of machismo and engages in typical guy talk. i do think an element of it is performative, because he wants validation from jared that they’re still just two dudes from texas taking on the world together despite his sexual identity. does that make any sense??? i hope so. but when he’s with misha he is an entirely different person and his sense of humour becomes wildly different. the machismo fades away, he’s way less caught up in what people think about him, lets his guard down, etc. to go back to my original point which is how j2 are different in that regard....jared does not do this. he is a constant. he does not flip a switch between ‘performing masculinity’ and ‘not’ because he isn’t performing any part of who he is. he just IS. so yeah these two are similar in many regards but there’s somewhat of a dissonance between them when it comes to how they perform masculinity because one of them is putting on a show and the other is merely being.

2. that crypt scene blooper(here just in case you need to see it again. do it. as a treat.) when i tell you i have easily seen this over thirty times??? since it first came out??? i mean it. it is such an overlooked(r*mantic) moment and it means so much more than people think it does. i’ve talked about the context behind it, and i think that’s why this blooper was so meaningful, so i’ll mention it again. jensen and misha had a LOT of trouble with this scene. the reason is that jensen couldn’t wrap his head around why dean would be saying these things, if i remember correctly, and both of them sat down and scoured over how they should play it for a while before filming(teamwork ;) teammates *ahem*). [to be honest we all know why jensen had a hard time with that scene and it is because it is blatantly romantic. rip to him but i would simply give in to it at that point but oh well] so anyway, their heads were scattered going into shooting, which is NEVER a good headspace to be in for a scene, ESPECIALLY not a pivotal one. but they had each other to help them through said weird energy on set that couldn’t possibly have invoked the best feelings, especially considering jensen STILL doesn’t think he played that correctly(but he praised misha on his performance :,) ). and with that context every single part of that video hits haRD

-’stop pulling my face towards your crotch’ i think this is objectively hilarious because it really really looks like jensen is pulling HIMSELF towards misha’s crotch. again, you’re fooling no one, jensen. misha’s wheezing laugh and the way he wraps himself around jensen is also,,,sweet??? like i don’t know how else to describe how i see it but this moment really reads as jensen, in his weird ‘constructing elaborate rituals’ way is asking for security through a physical touch from misha and he happily obliges and gives jensen what he needs. because i mean...watch it again. jensen ‘fights back’, but not really at all, actually. pretty wimpy counterattack. he literally lets himself be smothered by misha, and i would literally describe what they end up doing as cuddling.

-’i need you, cas. you’re my baby daddy’ i love having an actor’s perspective on things bc i think i can explain what’s going on here. jensen just delivered what was(in his own mind) a rotten take of the lines he’s most scared of delivering. so the scene was already messed up. therefore; ensuing fuckery is warranted to help him feel better. but there’s also for sure more than meets the eye for what he says here because of misha’s reaction after??? like he seemed genuinely touched. first of all, he’s saying ‘you’re my baby daddy’ as half-jensen, but not necessarily dean either(because he didn’t say the previous lines as true to his character...you get it), to misha, not cas. i think i’ve made this point before, but every single innuendo in the gag reels is to misha specifically, never once cas. therefore; logical conclusion: ‘you’re my baby daddy’ was for misha and it meant something deeper than we think because of what follows it

-this part. jensen’s giddy ass smile after he sees misha crack and then misha says ‘yeah, i know’ (can i just say his voice when he says this is so intimate???? like am i intruding guys??? sorry i’ll let myself out) also he is smiling SO BIG

- ‘i know’ ‘why are you laughing?’ ‘no i know i love you too’ this analysis is already so long but i still want to get into what THAT whole exchange means. ‘why are you laughing?’ to me sounds like jensen’s pretending to be affronted by misha laughing at something that is serious. and it’s serious because he quite literally meant ‘i love you’. he did. misha knows it. misha’s really REALLY good at cutting the bs and just getting to what people are actually trying to say. he has an innate sharpness to his sense of humour. so yes, misha is being 100% accurate when he says ‘i know, but you wanted to say it.’ misha isn’t lying here. jensen did want and mean to say ‘i love you’. and then he actually does say it(in a jokey way but not really).

- so yeah. it is actually so romantic??? like in a weird way jensen was professing his love for misha here?????? and that’s why this clip will NEVER. ever. get old.

3. jensen having trouble with pda and projecting onto dean: we can all call ourselves dean coded cas girls but NO one deserves that title more than jensen ackles himself. he is dean winchester but marginally less repressed because he actually did admit he was in love with his best friend and let himself be happy, and pretty early on too. one year and two months as opposed to twelve years. so. happy deancas au is correct. and yes about the pda thing: one day i want to write my own post about both of their body language when it comes to each other, but all i can tell is jensen, even in the early days, couldn’t help himself from flirting with misha, but if misha ever crossed a line, jensen would not be happy. clearly he’s come around, however. what i find sweet is that misha always follows jensen’s lead when it comes to how much affection they’re allowed to show each other onstage. it touches my soul

4. destiel is cockles fault. yeah. and the thing is everyone knows it, too. even non-cockles shippers will explain early destiel as entirely dependant on jensen and misha’s wild chemistry. and that chemistry is easily explained by the fact that misha and jensen are literally just wildly horny bisexuals who were crazily attracted to one another and were falling in love on screen before our very eyes. and when you have THAT insider info(which sounds cray doesn’t it!!!! the destiel actors are in love irl??? huh???) everything really does click into place. why destiel got SO popular when the show and actors never ever intended for it to happen.(i know some people think misha was playing cas as gay the whole time for shits and giggles, and i won’t deny that[especially considering he found out early on that destiel was why he was staying on the show], but i don’t think he really wanted it to amount to anything, nor did he care??? i mean he has the real thing with jensen, for one, so their characters aren’t really as important. for two, he loves joking about destiel because it’s a cultural phenomenon and it’s fascinating, and i’m sure he did ship it because he’s unhinged, but i don’t think it was vastly important to him either way.) destiel got popular because everyone was and is unintentionally reading into the real deal. i could pull up countless gifs that people have used as destiel proof that is actually just jensen and misha being messy. mainly jensen. if i’m being honest. the symbiotic relationship between destiel and cockles is why i’ve stayed onboard the destielcule and shellerscape for three solid months now; because it is utterly fascinating to witness and kind of super beautiful, too.

5. alma(and others). so. i do NOT want to really REALLY get into this in its entirety here and now so i will just give you my opinion on if i think alma is misha or not. also; i don’t want to mention the other poetry accounts here bc i feel like that’s a bigger breach in privacy, but a lot of people do know about alma now. way too many, actually. this is why we can’t have nice things. anyway-to answer your question-there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that yes, misha is running that alma poetry account. i am 100% certain. some people think it’s actually three people and they’re all connected to misha in some way but that is so needlessly complicated. as it goes in psychology; the easiest explanation is probably the right one. it’s just one person running that account, and it is misha collins. i don’t know why it’s so hard to believe KNOWN POET misha collins(who is known to spend most of his free time writing poetry anyway) would have created a secret poetry account to write about his intense secret relationship under an alias and also get legitimate feedback since no one used to know it was him. oh and the handwriting is identical??? you are blind if you do not see that i am sorry. and a million other things prove it’s misha too but yeah all you need to know is yes. it’s him. it would take a literal livestream from a random woman on that account to convince me otherwise. and honestly not even that because a random woman could technically still log in if misha asked her too. so. it would take a hell of a lot to convince me otherwise, clearly. that said DO NOTTTTTTTTTTTT GO ONTO THAT ACCOUNT WITH A SUPERNATURAL RELATED USERNAME AND COMMENT THINGS THAT ARE COCKLES RELATED. ARE YOU BRAIN DEAD WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT’S OKAY. sorry i got heated but god please just don’t be dumb so many people have already gone way too far

6. thank you for your lovely compliment on my analyses!!! i love doing them but i don’t know if people actually like reading them so i really appreciate it

#liz answers #cockles ask #mini analysis #spec #mine

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fromthedeskofthecaptain · 3 years

Text

Ghosts Empire Online Spoiler Special final part...

Ben, Larry and Martha.

Martha notes Fanny’s character development. They are planning to show more of her soft side in series three.

Ben wants to hold back from the Captain’s death, partly because it’s not the most interesting thing about him. He’s very aware that the tone needs to be quite carefully balanced between comedy and genuinely heartfelt emotion and doesn’t want to get too “heavy” with the Captain’s storylines, while still injecting drama and focusing on why he is as he is. Larry says they knew very early on how Cap died, but some of the characters have not been worked out fully or have changed because they realized something else has more dramatic possibilities.

Episode 1 -

Larry makes the point that the ghosts are like toddlers “with their hands tied behind their backs” in that they can do very little for themselves and Alison now has a morning routine revolving around setting them up for their days. He felt they had to do a ghost hunter episode at some point because it was obvious and a reversal of series one’s “cynicism” about the existence of ghosts from the living characters.

Cap’s fitness obsession is in there in part because Ben is really into running but Larry points out that his own run through woods in episode five was harder on him than filming the Captain’s short jog was on Ben! Ben had a stunt coordinator to help him do a tiny jump onto a crash mat when he was leaping to save Lady Button from being seen. They all found this hilarious because it was such a minor stunt and they’d all done loads of falling over in Horrible Histories.

Episode 3 -

They talked about the level of explosion they needed to have to warrant the Captain’s concern about the buried secret (once we discovered it wasn’t wholly a metaphor) without it being something that would’ve killed everyone. Larry finds it funny that Ben was so into war films as a child that he immediately said “oh, you’d need a limpet mine!” (These are attached to ships to create holes below the waterline).

Captain’s viability as a character comes from his internal conflict over being gay. He thinks the Edwardian era until the 50s was probably harder for gay men than prior to that. He doesn’t elaborate on why, but seems to say there was something about that time period in particular.

(Ed: He doesn’t say why he thinks this. I speculated on a few ideas

1. Perhaps the late Victorian surge in the power of the national press and use of the camera reduced people’s sense of privacy and enabled people to be the subject of campaigns and notoriety, e.g Oscar Wilde.

2 Perhaps he meant the 1885 Labouchere Amendment to the criminal law that made “gross indecency” short of proven anal sex a crime as well. Prior to that the law on male homosexuality was from Tudor times and required evidence of anal penetration proven to a legal standard. Any other sexual or intimate act between men had been legal (albeit not necessarily socially accepted). The amendment meant anything that could be considered foreplay or “coming on” to someone was now illegal. No definition was provided in the Act, which made it easier, not harder, to prosecute.

3. The First World War and all that surrounded it led to the particular construction that can be summed up as “patriotism requires battle-readiness, which means skills and virtues of traditional masculinity which are predicated on heterosexuality.” This is a drastic simplification, of course.

Aaaannnd back to Ben...

He says he never expected the degree to which the Captain has been adopted as significant character that embodies how so many people feel. Larry says that he thinks this is because Cap is a character who is gay, not a gay character and the majority of his story is about his functioning as a personality. His personality affects how he processes being gay and how he processes many other things too, but it isn’t that being gay IS his personality. (Ed: This is so important! As a gay woman I really struggle with characters who are written as “scene” because often that does mean that their entire personality is their sexuality, which I find reductive and alienating. It’s also exhausting when people have this self-portrayal in real life.)

Larry says he thinks the Captain would never have “allowed himself the possibility” that he’s gay because what could he have done about it in his time with his personality and attitude to risk, etc. Ben says Cap’s sexuality has never been treated as a joke in itself.

Fanny has a sexual awakening over Mike that the host described as “going Benny Hill”. Martha can’t watch it because it’s too much. They had to edit it a bit because she went over the top.

Larry says Robin being a conspiracy theorist is because he has no frame of reference for any of the things being discussed so he just believes everything that auto plays on YouTube.

They have to check about swearing and sexual references with Compliance. Ben says it’s funny what they will have problems with and what will be fine. (He seems to say it seems to lack internal logic.) Larry thinks being a quite daft show with a lot of overt silliness helps them get away with e.g. Pat saying “bullshit.”

Martha and Larry love that Simon puts a word in when he is making a noise of exertion when he’s moving things. He’s done Shawaddywaddy, Nixon, and has moved on to footballers’ names. He ad libs them all. They realized that with the burglary episode Julian would have to do everything because otherwise the plot wouldn’t work but thought it’d be ok if they had him be overtly annoyed about it and showed him to be the work shy layabout he thinks poor people are.

Initially, in their first pitch, Julian was dressed in PVC with a ball gag etc and they realized (Ed: thank god!) that they just couldn’t put that on television, so suggested what had happened in a much more likely to be allowed on TV before midnight way.

The hitchhiker Alison meets gave them pause due to its bleakness. Larry says they kept it to remind the audience that ghosts are everywhere and it is a horror comedy. He likes to keep the tone shifting and keep things unexpected. They reference how eager Fanny was to help the burglars, in that she can’t bear to see people do a task badly.

Mary and Kitty work as a team because the actors get on together, plus Kitty is so naive and Mary is such a “wildcard” that “if they only have each other to keep themselves on track” it’ll all go wrong (Larry). They joke about Cap being excited to have a moment to fight off insurgents. Ben calls it “frontline stuff!” and notes that Cap is an appalling military leader “in the wrong job.” This is partly because of leaving those two to do an important job, but generally, too. (Show some respect, Willbond).

Kitty’s song for Music Club was going to be “Saturday Night” by Wigfield, but they couldn’t get clearance. Larry also mentions not being allowed “Come on Eileen.” It’s clearly affected them all very deeply!

The End! (Until the last episode of the podcast, which I think is just about the Christmas special.) x

#bbc ghosts #ghosts christmas special #the captain #ben willbond #martha howe douglas #fanny ghosts #larry rickard #robin ghosts #empire online spoiler special

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