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#wait how did it never occur to me that he died specifically 7 times. faith of the seven sweep????? please????
sowthetide · 2 months
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“i work as a high school substitute teacher” oh shit. now i have to live with the horrific implications that my teachers could be on tumblr. what have you done.
I'M ONLY 22!!!!!! Y'ALL GOT ME FEELING LIKE BERIC DONDARRION OUT HERE!!!!!!!!!
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robin-christine · 3 years
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The Day My Life Began
On June 27, 2018, I tried to commit suicide. This is my story.
I’m thankful that I’m here to tell it.
There was no one specific reason that caused me try to kill myself, rather it was a combination of factors; I was experiencing a major depressive episode at the time, the red flags exhibited by my fiancé who was living with me suddenly surfaced from my subconscious all at once, and I had just begun taking a new anti-depressant I had never taken before. The side effects anti-depressants are ironic; they can actually INCREASE thoughts of depression and suicide, and for the first time in almost 20 years of taking various anti-depressants, I experienced this potentially fatal side effect from the new anti-depressant I had recently begun taking.
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your reasoning almost three years later my memories of that day are still few, fragmented and incomplete; I can only remember bits and pieces, and I’m sure those memories didn’t occur in the correct order in reality.
I remember having a screaming match with my (ex)-fiancé, I remember him using my mental illness to insult me, and I remember taking a hammer and destroying my laptop.
I remember going up to my mother’s apartment (at the time we were living in the same building) and screaming at her, likely nothing nice or loving.
I remember emptying an entire month’s worth of medication into a big pile on my bed, swallowing pills by the handful, and then casually thinking ‘what did I just do?’. I remember contemplating vomiting up the pills and then discarding the idea.
I remember going down to the lobby and waiting outside for the ambulance.
I remember yelling at my mother, who had come downstairs and was sitting silently on a bench in the lobby staring at the floor, ignoring my repeated screams of, “What the f*ck is wrong with you? You obviously don’t care I tried to kill myself since you’re sitting there, not saying a f*cking word! You won’t even look at me!”.
I remember getting into the ambulance and talking to the paramedics, but I must have lost consciousness, because the next thing I remember was being in restraints in the ER, screaming and cursing at everyone, and
struggling frantically to break free. All I accomplished was cause severe bruising on both my wrists that took months to heal properly.
I remember overhearing one of the doctors who had helped save my life in the ER say to another doctor as they walked away from my bed, “I hate treating personality disorders. They’re the fucking worst”.
That’s all I remember about June 27, 2018 before I once again lost consciousness, and even after having my stomach pumped with charcoal, I remained that way for the following three days. It didn’t take long before I needed the help of a ventilator to breathe, and at one point the doctors weren’t sure I would make it. My mother told me that she had sat by my bed for those three days, crying silently while stroking my hair, telling me how much she loved me.
On June 30, 2018 I finally regained consciousness.
Again, almost three years later my memories of that day are still few, fragmented and incomplete; I can only remember bits and pieces, and I’m sure what I do remember isn’t in the right order.
I remember seeing my mother and sister sitting next to each other, holding each other’s hands when I opened my eyes. When they realized I was waking up, they both jumped up, my sister ran out the room to get a doctor, and my mother sat down next to me on the bed to hug me as tightly as she could and whisper how much she loved me, crying.
In what could have seconds, minutes, or hours my sister returned, accompanied by a doctor introduced as Dr. Richards, who checked my vitals and conducted the first of numerous psychiatric assessments I would undergo over the next few days.
I spent a total of seven days in the hospital, including the three days that I was unconscious. Once I regained consciousness, I was assessed physically, psychiatrically and psychologically daily during the remaining four days I was hospitalized. I had blood taken so often that the nurses ran out of veins from which they could get blood; my veins are very small, difficult to find, and collapse easily, so as a result I had numerous bruises all over my hands and arms. Combined with the bruises on my wrists I gave myself trying to free myself from the restraints when I was in the ER, they served as a reminder of what I had done for months as they slowly healed.
During those four days I was forbidden by the doctors from being alone, and had caregivers watching me 24/7. When my mother and sister would visit the caregiver would leave the room so we could talk privately, but as soon as they left, the caregiver returned. Originally I wasn’t even allowed to close the door to the bathroom in my private room, but after my first psychiatric assessment by Dr. Richards, he gave the caregivers permission to allow me to close the door, but not to lock it.
The psychiatrists who assessed me ended up re-diagnosing me almost completely; for years I had been diagnosed as Bipolar and had been prescribed medications that I didn’t need and shouldn’t have been taking. I was weaned off the majority of the medication I had been taking, and left the hospital with a prescription for only one anti-depressant I had taken before without any fatal side effects, one anti-anxiety medication, and a new diagnosis of Personality Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (PDNOS). After I left the hospital, I continued working with my psychiatrist on finally properly diagnosing my mental illnesses because very often people suffer from more than one, and e many mental illnesses have overlapping symptoms, making a proper diagnosis sometimes very difficult..
After my overdose, I called off my wedding since it was one of the reasons I had tried to commit suicide. I finally acknowledged all the red flags that my fiancé had exhibited but I had subconsciously repressed; he had anger management problems, was extremely controlling and had absolutely no understanding of mental illness, even though he thought he did. He thought he knew everything. He would make comments like ‘stop exaggerating’, ‘you don’t need medication’, and my favourite, ‘it’s all in your head’. No kidding! I suffer from mental illness; where else would it be? My arm? My leg? But I’m ashamed to admit that I allowed him to treat him with ignorance and arrogance, that I allowed him to use me as a figurative mental punching bag for his anger, and that I allowed him to control my every move, much in the same way that my abusive late father had; unfortunately I’m proof that the expression “women tend to be attracted to men like their fathers” is true.
My overdose drastically changed our family dynamics. Immediately afterwards, me, my mother and my sister became closer as a family, and for the first time ever, my sister and I got along and actually had serious talks. Unfortunately, the joy that had come with my survival only lasted a few months before my depression returned, and my mother and sister
both blamed me for causing our’s mother’s anxiety to become worse, and for our mother having to move out of her apartment our building and into an “Assisted Living” apartment. My sister, my cousins both in Toronto and in Israel, and my mother’s few friends saw how depressed and anxious she had become after her had mother passed away, and how my suicide attempt had made her depression and anxiety worse.
Six months before she moved, my relatives were in town from Israel and my sister was in town from Toronto, and the three of them helped my mother visit and decide into which building to move; I was only told less than two weeks before she moved. Before my overdose, my mother was one of my best friends to whom I could talk to about absolutely anything. After my overdose, she avoided talking to me as much as she could. So although I didn’t cause my mother’s depression and anxiety, I did make them both worse for her.
I have to accept to consequences of my actions, but I didn’t expect my mother and sister to hate me as much as they do for attempting to commit suicide, for relapsing into a severe depression within a few months that from which, two years later, I’m still struggling to recover, and for causing them so much pain.
My sister eventually decided she’d had enough of my depression which manifested as anger and bitchiness, decided that she didn’t want or need me in her life, and didn’t want or need to deal with me any longer because my of anger, jealousy and resentment towards her, and blocked every possible method of communication to prevent me from contacting her.
When she had emergency gallbladder surgery a few months ago, I sent her a ‘Get Well’ card with what I thought was a nice message, but she never acknowledged receiving it. She’s made it clear that she has cut me out of her life completely, and I doubt I’ll ever see or speak to her again. I don’t know if it was easy or painful for her to cut all ties with me, but we haven’t spoken in at least 18 months.
My suicide attempt also changed my perspective about life, both positively and negatively. I finally forgave my father for what he did to me and the resulting negative psychiatric consequences he caused, 15 years after he had passed away. I believe that he, and the rest of my family and friends who have already passed helped save my life.
I started believing in G-D again; I regained my faith in a religion I felt had abandoned me years ago, but had been wrong. I should have died three times; in a car that flipped numerous times on the Trans-Canada highway into a ditch separating westbound from eastbound traffic lanes, in a grease fire in one of my apartments and by overdosing.
Obviously I’m here for a reason, and will gladly remain here until I’ve accomplished what I was put on this earth to do.
Finally at age 44, I have been properly diagnosed with numerous mental illnesses: Depression, Severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), Personality Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (PDNOS) with traits of Borderline (BPD), Avoidant (AvPD) and Narcissistic (NPD) Personality Disorders, Adjustment Disorder (AjD), Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).
Unfortunately, Personality Disorders can’t be treated with medication but they can be managed with specialized therapy. So I take medication and have done Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT) which has helped tremendously.
Now I take pleasure in the smallest of things; a good cup of coffee, a sunny day, a good book, losing half a pound, having clean socks and underwear, a good movie, sleeping late, among other things.
I know that medication and therapy will never completely obliterate my illnesses, I’ll have relapses of depressive episodes and I’ll have thoughts of suicide, but I know I won’t act on them. I’ve learned to enjoy life.
I will never again attempt to commit suicide.
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thatkatiecooney · 7 years
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The 15 PLOT POINTS of Story Structure
To all the writers who have ever been told they need to outline their story, and privately thought “Great. But how do you DO that? What exactly does that mean?! Is there a map? WHAT IS THE SPECIFIC DEFINITION OF THE VAGUE WORD ‘OUTLINE’?”
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Good news. Stories have structure. Structure that can be learned. And a fantastic place to start learning structure? 
Save the Cat: The Last Book on Screenwriting You’ll Ever Need by Blake Snyder. This book gives a simple outline that most stories follow. And as an introduction to story structure, it can’t be beat. 
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In Save the Cat, 15 plot points are spelled out in something called a beat sheet. During the outlining process, these “beats” or plot points can be used as an armature or skeleton that your story is built upon. 
So what are those 15 plot points?
Opening Image: A snapshot of the hero’s problematic ordinary world, right before the story starts and changes everything. 
Set-Up: Further establishing that ordinary world and what the hero does every day, impressing upon the audience or reader what’s wrong, and the idea that something needs to change.
Theme Stated:  The truth that the hero will learn by experiencing the story, the statement that will be proven to the audience. But upon first encountering this truth, in this story beat right in the beginning, the hero doesn’t understand or outright refuses to believe it. The theme stated is asking a question, a question which the story will answer.
Catalyst: The ordinary world is shattered. Something unexpected happens, and this event triggers all the conflict and change of the whole story. Life will never be the same after this moment. This is the Call to Adventure. 
Debate: But for a moment, the hero won’t be quite sure about answering that call. Leaving behind the ordinary world is difficult – even if the catalyst has come along and disrupted everything – because the ordinary means safety, it means not being challenged, it means avoiding conflict and heartache. Yes, that existence they’re stuck in might be stagnant and unpleasant, but it protects them from facing the intimidating task of growth, of becoming something better.
Break Into 2: And this is when the hero decides to answer the call and cross the threshold of act two, determined to pursue their goal. 
B Story: This is when the relationship – which usually carries and proves the theme – starts in earnest.
Fun & Games: This is just what it says: the premise promised a certain type of pure entertainment, and this beat is where we get to experience it fully. 
Midpoint: This is either a false victory or a false defeat. Something really really good happens. Or something the exact opposite.
Bad Guys Close In: Forces of opposition and conflict begin to converge on the hero and his goal. Everything begins to fall apart for the hero, the defeats piling up one after another, the main character punching back.  
All Is Lost: This is the sequence where absolutely everything falls apart for the hero. The plans fail, the goal is lost, the mentor dies, the villain wins. All is, quite literally, lost. 
Dark Night of the Soul: The hero’s bleakest moment is right here. In addition to all of the tangible things that have been lost, hope and the gumption to continue with the story have also vanished. There is usually a hint of death here, of some kind. An actual death, or an emotional or spiritual death. 
Break into 3: Ah, but there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. Inspiration occurs, hope is rekindled, courage to pursue the story returns. Usually, this is the moment where the main character learns what they NEED, the truth which will heal them, and allow them to fix their own lives. With this, they are able to snatch victory from defeat.
Finale: And in here, the story goal is pursued once more, but this time from the stronger version of the hero – the version that has learned the theme, and committed to act accordingly. 
Closing Image: The opposite of the opening image. This is a snapshot of life after the story, the problems of the ordinary world solved or banished, a new world opening up for the hero. If the opening is the equivalent of “once upon a time” this is saying “And every day after … " 
So let’s see how that works! And to see it, let’s look at my favorite short film of all time – Paperman  (because this gave me an excuse to watch it several times and listen to the music while writing it.)
1) Opening Image
We see George, a twenty-something in a sixty-something’s suit and tie, obviously on his way to work, and not looking at all enthused about it. He stares straight ahead, expression bored, lifeless, right on the edge of depressed. Wind from a passing train pushes him slightly, and he lets it, demeanor unchanging. 
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2) Set-Up
But then a sheet of paper, caught on the wind, hits his shoulder. The paper flies off again, and a young woman appears onscreen, chasing after the paper, as the surprised George watches.
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 After catching it offscreen, the girl returns, tucking the paper into the stack she carries, smiling slightly. They both face forward, waiting for the train side-by-side, in silence. She’s glancing sideways at him, he’s smiling and fidgeting nervously, but still resolutely facing forward; they’re both aware of each other, seemingly hoping the other will be braver, but neither able to overcome their shyness and the unspoken rules of everyday life. 
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3) Theme Stated 
As a train charges into the station, a paper from George’s stack is snatched by the wind and lands flat on the woman’s face. When he pulls the paper away, she laughs: her lipstick left a perfect kiss mark on the sheet. When George spots it, he laughs too … 
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but when he opens his eyes, she’s gone. She’s boarded a different train. The kiss-mark paper flaps in the wind as the train begins to move, taking her away. He watches, crestfallen. She glances back. Looks of regret and disappointment are exchanged, both a little wistful. The paper, the symbol of their fleeting memorable meeting, waves goodbye. 
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Through this little sequence of images, the question of the whole story is asked: Was there a connection between them? Will they find each other again? And on a wider level: What does it take to find love? 
Further Set-Up:
And cut to George behind a desk, in a gray office, dark file cabinets towering behind him, clocks on the wall ticking away his life. Miserable again, he stares at the lipsticked paper. A stack of documents slams onto the desk from on high. The grim-faced boss of the office scowls down at him. George frowns at the stack, then at his boss, who stomps away.   
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4) Catalyst 
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Breeze pulls the kissed paper off his desk and out the open window. He catches it just in time, breathing a sigh of relief. And then he sees something. The girl! She’s there! She’s right across the street! 
5) Debate 
He needs to get her attention! He dithers for a moment, then throws the window wide and enthusiastically waves his arms.
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 An ominous "ahem” from the boss brings him back inside, and back to his desk. But his attention is still on the girl, and the need to get her attention. He folds a paper airplane, stands before the window, poises the airplane to fly … but he glances at his boss’s office before he throws it. Should he? 
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6) Break Into Act 2
Yes. Yes, he should. He sends the little airplane messenger to bridge the distance between himself and the girl. 
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7) B Story
What he should have done while waiting for the train, he’s committed to do now. Talk to her. The relationship of the story has started officially. 
8) Fun & Games
In this moment, he becomes the “paper man” of the title. He folds and throws paper airplane after paper airplane. The boss shows up, shoves him back and slams his window. George pauses until he’s gone, then just keeps sending airplanes. They sail over the street, but are intercepted or miss their mark every time. 
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9) Midpoint
He reaches for more paper … and knocks an empty tray off the desk. He’s run out. Except for one paper, the kissed one, the only one he’s held onto. With a determined look, he folds it precisely into an airplane, stands before the window, breathes to steady himself … 
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And the wind steals the airplane from his hand, sending it spiraling to the street below, George reaching out pointlessly. On top of this defeat, the girl leaves the office.  
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10) Bad Guys Close In 
Immediately, the boss emerges from his lair. The other office workers hurriedly return to their scribbling, hunched to avoid drawing attention. The girl is leaving the building across the street! George turns from the window … and finds the boss looming above him, glowering, delivering another tall pile of meaningless work. 
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George sinks into his chair, defeated. But something happens as he watches his boss walk away, as he sees the office workers in neat rows; all of them older versions of George, reflections of what he will become … if he doesn’t do something right now. 
He runs, sending paper from the perfect stacks flying in his wake. 
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11) All Is Lost
But when he escapes the building, and attempts to cross the street, cars nearly kill him. And when he finally makes it to the opposite sidewalk, the girl is nowhere in sight. She’s lost again. 
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And all he manages to find is the little traitorous paper airplane. The paper he’d believed might mean something, might have signified something important and maybe a little magical. Which it obviously never did. 
12) Dark Night of the Soul
Angry, he grabs the plane and throws it with all his strength.  He’s lost his job, he’s lost the girl, he’s lost all faith in the magic he’d just started to believe might be real. He stomps towards the train station, returning home. 
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13) Break Into 3  
But fate has other plans. The airplane glides over the city, almost supernaturally graceful and purposeful. It dives between buildings, and lands in the middle of the alley where all the paper planes have collected. 
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It sits immobile. Then it moves. Moves again. And jumps into flight. The airplane flies over the rest, stirring them into motion, into the air. In a place where not even a breath of wind could reach, there is now a whirlwind of George’s airplanes. 
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Though the forces of mediocrity tried to keep them apart, something greater has recognized George’s efforts and is going to see things through. 
14) Finale
A parade of airplanes follows George down the street. 
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The leader attaches to his leg. He brushes it off, mad. A flurry of them attach to him, then carry him down the street, unfazed by his fighting. 
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The leader airplane rockets over the city purposefully, finds the girl, then lures her to follow.
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 She chases after. 
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Somewhere else in the city, George is being pushed wherever the paper airplanes want him to go. We switch back and forth between George and the girl, as the airplanes push him and beckon her. 
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Until they’re both on different trains, which stop simultaneously, on opposite sides of the platform. The girl gets out. She fiddles with the airplane, like she’s trying to get it to work again. And just then, a breeze brings hundreds of paper planes skittering all around the platform.
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 She looks up …
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15) Closing Image
And there’s George, covered in paper planes. 
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He lurches towards Meg, and the airplanes falls away, their work done. 
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George and Meg face each other, smiling, the barriers of routine and shyness overcome. Exactly what should have happened, exactly what was meant to happen. Putting effort into connection and love prevailed in the end, defeating the allure of life spent in safety and mediocrity. The closing image is the opposite of the opening: he’s not alone, he’s not facing the train leading to his mundane job, he’s not looking miserable and hopeless. He’s facing the girl, his bright and meaningful new future. ***
So! Those are the 15 plot points. This is a fantastic way to begin learning what story structure is, why it works the way it does, and how to precisely pull it off. 
For a more in-depth explanation, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Save the Cat. (It holds a special place in my heart; it was the first screenwriting book I ever read, and started obsessive study of storytelling.)
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"No One has Ascended to Heaven"by Eric Lyons, M.Min. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus regarding the need to be “born again” (John 3:1-8), He also sought to impress upon the mind of this ruler of the Jews that His words were from above. Jesus spoke of spiritual things that no man knew (Matthew 13:35; cf. 7:28-29; Luke 2:47). One of the reasons Jesus gave for being able to expound on such spiritual truths is found in John 3:13. Here, the apostle John recorded Jesus as having said to Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:13). According to the skeptic, this statement by Jesus is severely flawed. Since the Old Testament reveals that Elijah escaped physical death and “went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11; cf. Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5), allegedly Jesus could not truthfully tell Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven.” Is the skeptic right?For Jesus’ statement to contradict what the Bible says about Elijah, one first must presuppose that Jesus was referring to the exact same place to which Elijah ascended. For a contradiction to exist between two Bible passages, one must prove that the one doing the speaking (or writing) is referring to the same person, place, or thing (see Jevons, 1928, p. 118). Can the skeptic be certain that the “heaven” to which Jesus referred, is the same one into which the body of Elijah ascended? The words “heaven” or “heavens” appear in our English Bibles about 700 times. And yet, in many of the passages where “heaven(s)” is found, the inspired writers were not discussing the spiritual heaven with which we most often associate the word. For example, in Genesis 1 and 2, the Hebrew word for heaven appears 15 times in 14 verses. Yet in every instance, the word is referring to something besides the spiritual heaven where God dwells. The word “heaven” (Hebrew shamayim, Greek ouranos) is used by Bible writers in basically three different ways. It is used to refer to the atmospheric heavens in which the airplanes fly, the birds soar, and the clouds gather (Genesis 1:20; Jeremiah 4:25; Matthew 6:26, ASV). “Heaven(s)” also is used in the Bible when referring to the firmament where we find the Sun, Moon, and stars—the sidereal heavens, or outer space (Genesis 1:14-15; Psalm 19:4,6; Isaiah 13:10). The third “heaven” frequently mentioned in Scripture is the spiritual heaven in which Jehovah dwells (Psalm 2:4; Hebrews 9:24), and where, one day, the faithful will live forevermore (Revelation 21:18-23; John 14:1-3; cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3). [NOTE: The word “firmament” (meaning expanse) is used in the same three ways “heaven” is used. Thus, what is said about heaven also can be said of the firmament (cf. Genesis 1:20; Genesis 1:17; Psalm 150:1).] The context of John 3 clearly indicates that Jesus is referring to the spiritual heavens wherein God dwells (cf. John 3:27). 2 Kings 2:11, however, is not as clear. The writer of 2 Kings easily could have meant that the body of Elijah miraculously ascended up high into the air never to been seen by anyone on Earth again. Nowhere does the text indicate that he left Earth at that moment to dwell in God’s presence. He definitely went somewhere, but we have no evidence that he was transferred to the actual throne room of God Almighty.The Bible indicates that when God’s faithful servants leave this Earth, their spirits are taken to dwell in a place referred to as paradise (or “the bosom of Abraham”—Luke 16:19-31). Recall when Jesus was fastened to the cross, and told the penitent thief, “Today, you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). The word paradise is of Persian derivation, and means a “garden” or “park.” Where was it that Jesus and the thief went? Neither of them went to heaven to be with God the Father on that very day, for in John 20:17 after His resurrection, Jesus reassured Mary that He had not yet ascended to the Father. So where did Jesus and the thief go after dying on the cross? Peter gave the answer to that question in his sermon in Acts 2 when he quoted Psalm 16. Acts 2:27 states that God would not abandon Christ’s soul in hades, nor allow Christ to undergo decay. So while Christ’s body was placed in a tomb for three days, Christ’s spirit went to hades. [NOTE: The word hades occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the receptacle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await for the Lord’s return and judgment. One part of hades, where Jesus and the thief went, is known as paradise.] Peter argued that David, who penned Psalm 16, was not referring to himself, since David’s body was still in the tomb (Acts 2:29), and his spirit was still in the hadean realm (Acts 2:34). Acts 2 indicates that a faithful servant of God does not go directly to be with God the Father when he dies; rather, he goes to a holding place in hades known as paradise—the same place where Abraham went after he died (Luke 16), and the same place where the spirit of Elijah went after he was caught up from the Earth. In short, the Bible does not teach that Elijah left Earth to begin immediately dwelling in the presence of the Father (where Jesus was before His incarnation—John 1:1). Thus, technically he did not ascend to the “place” whence Jesus came.For the sake of argument, consider for a moment that the skeptic is right, and that Elijah’s spirit did not go to paradise, but was taken to dwell in the very presence of God. Could Jesus still have made the statement He did, and yet not be inaccurate? I believe so. Notice again the response to Nicodemus’ question, “How can these things be?” Jesus said: “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:12-13, emp. added). It may be that Jesus meant nothing more than that no one has ever gone up to heaven “by his own act” or “on his own terms” (see Bullinger, 1888, pp. 281-282). Elijah and Enoch had been taken by God, which is different than freely ascending up into heaven on one’s own terms. Furthermore, Jesus’ words, “No one has ascended to heaven,” also could have meant that no one has ever gone up into heaven to then return and speak firsthand about what he saw, and to spread the same saving message that Jesus preached. Jesus was emphasizing to Nicodemus how no one on Earth at that time was revealing such spiritual truths as Christ was, because no one ever had ascended to heaven to then return and talk about what he had seen and learned. Such seems to have been the main point Jesus was making in John 3:13. No one on Earth had seen what Jesus had seen, and thus could not teach what He taught.Truly, the skeptic’s accusation that Jesus either lied or was mistaken regarding his comment to Nicodemus about no one having ascended to heaven, is unsubstantiated. Perhaps the word heaven used in 2 Kings 2:11 was not meant to convey the idea of the spiritual heavens in which God dwells. Or, considering the Bible’s teaching on departed spirits of the righteous being in a holding place known as paradise, and not in the actual presence of Almighty God, Jesus could have meant that no person has ever ascended to the throne room of God from which He came. Furthermore, it also is interesting to note that Nicodemus, being “a man of the Pharisees” (John 3:1), and thus one who would have been very well acquainted with the details of the Old Testament, did not respond to Jesus by saying, “Wait a minute Rabbi. What about Elijah and Enoch? Isn’t it written in the law and prophets that they ascended to heaven?” Surely, had Jesus contradicted something in the law and the prophets, it would have been brought to His attention, especially by a Pharisee. Yet, the apostle John never records such a statement.Admittedly, at first glance, it might appear as if the statements, “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and, “No man has ascended to heaven” (John 3:13), are contradictory. However, when a person considers all of the possible solutions to the alleged problem, he must admit that such an interpretation is unjustified.REFERENCESBullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).Jevons, W. Stanley (1928), Elementary Lessons in Logic (London: Macmillan). Copyright © 2004 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved. We are happy to grant permission for items in the "Alleged Discrepancies" section to be reproduced in part or in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) textual alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden; (5) Some illustrations (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, etc.) are not the intellectual property of Apologetics Press and as such cannot be reproduced from our site without consent from the person or organization that maintains those intellectual rights; (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, excepting brief quotations, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken. For catalog, samples, or further information, contact: Apologetics Press 230 Landmark Drive Montgomery, Alabama 36117 U.S.A. Phone (334) 272-8558 http://www.apologeticspress.org
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stevefinnellp-blog · 5 years
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"No One has Ascended to Heaven"by Eric Lyons, M.Min. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus regarding the need to be “born again” (John 3:1-8), He also sought to impress upon the mind of this ruler of the Jews that His words were from above. Jesus spoke of spiritual things that no man knew (Matthew 13:35; cf. 7:28-29; Luke 2:47). One of the reasons Jesus gave for being able to expound on such spiritual truths is found in John 3:13. Here, the apostle John recorded Jesus as having said to Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:13). According to the skeptic, this statement by Jesus is severely flawed. Since the Old Testament reveals that Elijah escaped physical death and “went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11; cf. Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5), allegedly Jesus could not truthfully tell Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven.” Is the skeptic right?For Jesus’ statement to contradict what the Bible says about Elijah, one first must presuppose that Jesus was referring to the exact same place to which Elijah ascended. For a contradiction to exist between two Bible passages, one must prove that the one doing the speaking (or writing) is referring to the same person, place, or thing (see Jevons, 1928, p. 118). Can the skeptic be certain that the “heaven” to which Jesus referred, is the same one into which the body of Elijah ascended? The words “heaven” or “heavens” appear in our English Bibles about 700 times. And yet, in many of the passages where “heaven(s)” is found, the inspired writers were not discussing the spiritual heaven with which we most often associate the word. For example, in Genesis 1 and 2, the Hebrew word for heaven appears 15 times in 14 verses. Yet in every instance, the word is referring to something besides the spiritual heaven where God dwells. The word “heaven” (Hebrew shamayim, Greek ouranos) is used by Bible writers in basically three different ways. It is used to refer to the atmospheric heavens in which the airplanes fly, the birds soar, and the clouds gather (Genesis 1:20; Jeremiah 4:25; Matthew 6:26, ASV). “Heaven(s)” also is used in the Bible when referring to the firmament where we find the Sun, Moon, and stars—the sidereal heavens, or outer space (Genesis 1:14-15; Psalm 19:4,6; Isaiah 13:10). The third “heaven” frequently mentioned in Scripture is the spiritual heaven in which Jehovah dwells (Psalm 2:4; Hebrews 9:24), and where, one day, the faithful will live forevermore (Revelation 21:18-23; John 14:1-3; cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3). [NOTE: The word “firmament” (meaning expanse) is used in the same three ways “heaven” is used. Thus, what is said about heaven also can be said of the firmament (cf. Genesis 1:20; Genesis 1:17; Psalm 150:1).] The context of John 3 clearly indicates that Jesus is referring to the spiritual heavens wherein God dwells (cf. John 3:27). 2 Kings 2:11, however, is not as clear. The writer of 2 Kings easily could have meant that the body of Elijah miraculously ascended up high into the air never to been seen by anyone on Earth again. Nowhere does the text indicate that he left Earth at that moment to dwell in God’s presence. He definitely went somewhere, but we have no evidence that he was transferred to the actual throne room of God Almighty.The Bible indicates that when God’s faithful servants leave this Earth, their spirits are taken to dwell in a place referred to as paradise (or “the bosom of Abraham”—Luke 16:19-31). Recall when Jesus was fastened to the cross, and told the penitent thief, “Today, you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). The word paradise is of Persian derivation, and means a “garden” or “park.” Where was it that Jesus and the thief went? Neither of them went to heaven to be with God the Father on that very day, for in John 20:17 after His resurrection, Jesus reassured Mary that He had not yet ascended to the Father. So where did Jesus and the thief go after dying on the cross? Peter gave the answer to that question in his sermon in Acts 2 when he quoted Psalm 16. Acts 2:27 states that God would not abandon Christ’s soul in hades, nor allow Christ to undergo decay. So while Christ’s body was placed in a tomb for three days, Christ’s spirit went to hades. [NOTE: The word hades occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the receptacle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await for the Lord’s return and judgment. One part of hades, where Jesus and the thief went, is known as paradise.] Peter argued that David, who penned Psalm 16, was not referring to himself, since David’s body was still in the tomb (Acts 2:29), and his spirit was still in the hadean realm (Acts 2:34). Acts 2 indicates that a faithful servant of God does not go directly to be with God the Father when he dies; rather, he goes to a holding place in hades known as paradise—the same place where Abraham went after he died (Luke 16), and the same place where the spirit of Elijah went after he was caught up from the Earth. In short, the Bible does not teach that Elijah left Earth to begin immediately dwelling in the presence of the Father (where Jesus was before His incarnation—John 1:1). Thus, technically he did not ascend to the “place” whence Jesus came.For the sake of argument, consider for a moment that the skeptic is right, and that Elijah’s spirit did not go to paradise, but was taken to dwell in the very presence of God. Could Jesus still have made the statement He did, and yet not be inaccurate? I believe so. Notice again the response to Nicodemus’ question, “How can these things be?” Jesus said: “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:12-13, emp. added). It may be that Jesus meant nothing more than that no one has ever gone up to heaven “by his own act” or “on his own terms” (see Bullinger, 1888, pp. 281-282). Elijah and Enoch had been taken by God, which is different than freely ascending up into heaven on one’s own terms. Furthermore, Jesus’ words, “No one has ascended to heaven,” also could have meant that no one has ever gone up into heaven to then return and speak firsthand about what he saw, and to spread the same saving message that Jesus preached. Jesus was emphasizing to Nicodemus how no one on Earth at that time was revealing such spiritual truths as Christ was, because no one ever had ascended to heaven to then return and talk about what he had seen and learned. Such seems to have been the main point Jesus was making in John 3:13. No one on Earth had seen what Jesus had seen, and thus could not teach what He taught.Truly, the skeptic’s accusation that Jesus either lied or was mistaken regarding his comment to Nicodemus about no one having ascended to heaven, is unsubstantiated. Perhaps the word heaven used in 2 Kings 2:11 was not meant to convey the idea of the spiritual heavens in which God dwells. Or, considering the Bible’s teaching on departed spirits of the righteous being in a holding place known as paradise, and not in the actual presence of Almighty God, Jesus could have meant that no person has ever ascended to the throne room of God from which He came. Furthermore, it also is interesting to note that Nicodemus, being “a man of the Pharisees” (John 3:1), and thus one who would have been very well acquainted with the details of the Old Testament, did not respond to Jesus by saying, “Wait a minute Rabbi. What about Elijah and Enoch? Isn’t it written in the law and prophets that they ascended to heaven?” Surely, had Jesus contradicted something in the law and the prophets, it would have been brought to His attention, especially by a Pharisee. Yet, the apostle John never records such a statement.Admittedly, at first glance, it might appear as if the statements, “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and, “No man has ascended to heaven” (John 3:13), are contradictory. However, when a person considers all of the possible solutions to the alleged problem, he must admit that such an interpretation is unjustified.REFERENCESBullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).Jevons, W. Stanley (1928), Elementary Lessons in Logic (London: Macmillan). Copyright © 2004 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved. We are happy to grant permission for items in the "Alleged Discrepancies" section to be reproduced in part or in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) textual alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden; (5) Some illustrations (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, etc.) are not the intellectual property of Apologetics Press and as such cannot be reproduced from our site without consent from the person or organization that maintains those intellectual rights; (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, excepting brief quotations, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken. For catalog, samples, or further information, contact: Apologetics Press 230 Landmark Drive Montgomery, Alabama 36117 U.S.A. Phone (334) 272-8558 http://www.apologeticspress.org
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stevefinnell-blog · 5 years
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"No One has Ascended to Heaven"by Eric Lyons, M.Min. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus regarding the need to be “born again” (John 3:1-8), He also sought to impress upon the mind of this ruler of the Jews that His words were from above. Jesus spoke of spiritual things that no man knew (Matthew 13:35; cf. 7:28-29; Luke 2:47). One of the reasons Jesus gave for being able to expound on such spiritual truths is found in John 3:13. Here, the apostle John recorded Jesus as having said to Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:13). According to the skeptic, this statement by Jesus is severely flawed. Since the Old Testament reveals that Elijah escaped physical death and “went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11; cf. Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5), allegedly Jesus could not truthfully tell Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven.” Is the skeptic right?For Jesus’ statement to contradict what the Bible says about Elijah, one first must presuppose that Jesus was referring to the exact same place to which Elijah ascended. For a contradiction to exist between two Bible passages, one must prove that the one doing the speaking (or writing) is referring to the same person, place, or thing (see Jevons, 1928, p. 118). Can the skeptic be certain that the “heaven” to which Jesus referred, is the same one into which the body of Elijah ascended? The words “heaven” or “heavens” appear in our English Bibles about 700 times. And yet, in many of the passages where “heaven(s)” is found, the inspired writers were not discussing the spiritual heaven with which we most often associate the word. For example, in Genesis 1 and 2, the Hebrew word for heaven appears 15 times in 14 verses. Yet in every instance, the word is referring to something besides the spiritual heaven where God dwells. The word “heaven” (Hebrew shamayim, Greek ouranos) is used by Bible writers in basically three different ways. It is used to refer to the atmospheric heavens in which the airplanes fly, the birds soar, and the clouds gather (Genesis 1:20; Jeremiah 4:25; Matthew 6:26, ASV). “Heaven(s)” also is used in the Bible when referring to the firmament where we find the Sun, Moon, and stars—the sidereal heavens, or outer space (Genesis 1:14-15; Psalm 19:4,6; Isaiah 13:10). The third “heaven” frequently mentioned in Scripture is the spiritual heaven in which Jehovah dwells (Psalm 2:4; Hebrews 9:24), and where, one day, the faithful will live forevermore (Revelation 21:18-23; John 14:1-3; cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3). [NOTE: The word “firmament” (meaning expanse) is used in the same three ways “heaven” is used. Thus, what is said about heaven also can be said of the firmament (cf. Genesis 1:20; Genesis 1:17; Psalm 150:1).] The context of John 3 clearly indicates that Jesus is referring to the spiritual heavens wherein God dwells (cf. John 3:27). 2 Kings 2:11, however, is not as clear. The writer of 2 Kings easily could have meant that the body of Elijah miraculously ascended up high into the air never to been seen by anyone on Earth again. Nowhere does the text indicate that he left Earth at that moment to dwell in God’s presence. He definitely went somewhere, but we have no evidence that he was transferred to the actual throne room of God Almighty.The Bible indicates that when God’s faithful servants leave this Earth, their spirits are taken to dwell in a place referred to as paradise (or “the bosom of Abraham”—Luke 16:19-31). Recall when Jesus was fastened to the cross, and told the penitent thief, “Today, you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). The word paradise is of Persian derivation, and means a “garden” or “park.” Where was it that Jesus and the thief went? Neither of them went to heaven to be with God the Father on that very day, for in John 20:17 after His resurrection, Jesus reassured Mary that He had not yet ascended to the Father. So where did Jesus and the thief go after dying on the cross? Peter gave the answer to that question in his sermon in Acts 2 when he quoted Psalm 16. Acts 2:27 states that God would not abandon Christ’s soul in hades, nor allow Christ to undergo decay. So while Christ’s body was placed in a tomb for three days, Christ’s spirit went to hades. [NOTE: The word hades occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the receptacle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await for the Lord’s return and judgment. One part of hades, where Jesus and the thief went, is known as paradise.] Peter argued that David, who penned Psalm 16, was not referring to himself, since David’s body was still in the tomb (Acts 2:29), and his spirit was still in the hadean realm (Acts 2:34). Acts 2 indicates that a faithful servant of God does not go directly to be with God the Father when he dies; rather, he goes to a holding place in hades known as paradise—the same place where Abraham went after he died (Luke 16), and the same place where the spirit of Elijah went after he was caught up from the Earth. In short, the Bible does not teach that Elijah left Earth to begin immediately dwelling in the presence of the Father (where Jesus was before His incarnation—John 1:1). Thus, technically he did not ascend to the “place” whence Jesus came.For the sake of argument, consider for a moment that the skeptic is right, and that Elijah’s spirit did not go to paradise, but was taken to dwell in the very presence of God. Could Jesus still have made the statement He did, and yet not be inaccurate? I believe so. Notice again the response to Nicodemus’ question, “How can these things be?” Jesus said: “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:12-13, emp. added). It may be that Jesus meant nothing more than that no one has ever gone up to heaven “by his own act” or “on his own terms” (see Bullinger, 1888, pp. 281-282). Elijah and Enoch had been taken by God, which is different than freely ascending up into heaven on one’s own terms. Furthermore, Jesus’ words, “No one has ascended to heaven,” also could have meant that no one has ever gone up into heaven to then return and speak firsthand about what he saw, and to spread the same saving message that Jesus preached. Jesus was emphasizing to Nicodemus how no one on Earth at that time was revealing such spiritual truths as Christ was, because no one ever had ascended to heaven to then return and talk about what he had seen and learned. Such seems to have been the main point Jesus was making in John 3:13. No one on Earth had seen what Jesus had seen, and thus could not teach what He taught.Truly, the skeptic’s accusation that Jesus either lied or was mistaken regarding his comment to Nicodemus about no one having ascended to heaven, is unsubstantiated. Perhaps the word heaven used in 2 Kings 2:11 was not meant to convey the idea of the spiritual heavens in which God dwells. Or, considering the Bible’s teaching on departed spirits of the righteous being in a holding place known as paradise, and not in the actual presence of Almighty God, Jesus could have meant that no person has ever ascended to the throne room of God from which He came. Furthermore, it also is interesting to note that Nicodemus, being “a man of the Pharisees” (John 3:1), and thus one who would have been very well acquainted with the details of the Old Testament, did not respond to Jesus by saying, “Wait a minute Rabbi. What about Elijah and Enoch? Isn’t it written in the law and prophets that they ascended to heaven?” Surely, had Jesus contradicted something in the law and the prophets, it would have been brought to His attention, especially by a Pharisee. Yet, the apostle John never records such a statement.Admittedly, at first glance, it might appear as if the statements, “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and, “No man has ascended to heaven” (John 3:13), are contradictory. However, when a person considers all of the possible solutions to the alleged problem, he must admit that such an interpretation is unjustified.REFERENCESBullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).Jevons, W. Stanley (1928), Elementary Lessons in Logic (London: Macmillan). Copyright © 2004 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved. We are happy to grant permission for items in the "Alleged Discrepancies" section to be reproduced in part or in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) textual alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden; (5) Some illustrations (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, etc.) are not the intellectual property of Apologetics Press and as such cannot be reproduced from our site without consent from the person or organization that maintains those intellectual rights; (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, excepting brief quotations, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken. For catalog, samples, or further information, contact: Apologetics Press 230 Landmark Drive Montgomery, Alabama 36117 U.S.A. Phone (334) 272-8558 http://www.apologeticspress.org
0 notes
Text
"No One has Ascended to Heaven"by Eric Lyons, M.Min. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus regarding the need to be “born again” (John 3:1-8), He also sought to impress upon the mind of this ruler of the Jews that His words were from above. Jesus spoke of spiritual things that no man knew (Matthew 13:35; cf. 7:28-29; Luke 2:47). One of the reasons Jesus gave for being able to expound on such spiritual truths is found in John 3:13. Here, the apostle John recorded Jesus as having said to Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:13). According to the skeptic, this statement by Jesus is severely flawed. Since the Old Testament reveals that Elijah escaped physical death and “went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11; cf. Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5), allegedly Jesus could not truthfully tell Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven.” Is the skeptic right?For Jesus’ statement to contradict what the Bible says about Elijah, one first must presuppose that Jesus was referring to the exact same place to which Elijah ascended. For a contradiction to exist between two Bible passages, one must prove that the one doing the speaking (or writing) is referring to the same person, place, or thing (see Jevons, 1928, p. 118). Can the skeptic be certain that the “heaven” to which Jesus referred, is the same one into which the body of Elijah ascended? The words “heaven” or “heavens” appear in our English Bibles about 700 times. And yet, in many of the passages where “heaven(s)” is found, the inspired writers were not discussing the spiritual heaven with which we most often associate the word. For example, in Genesis 1 and 2, the Hebrew word for heaven appears 15 times in 14 verses. Yet in every instance, the word is referring to something besides the spiritual heaven where God dwells. The word “heaven” (Hebrew shamayim, Greek ouranos) is used by Bible writers in basically three different ways. It is used to refer to the atmospheric heavens in which the airplanes fly, the birds soar, and the clouds gather (Genesis 1:20; Jeremiah 4:25; Matthew 6:26, ASV). “Heaven(s)” also is used in the Bible when referring to the firmament where we find the Sun, Moon, and stars—the sidereal heavens, or outer space (Genesis 1:14-15; Psalm 19:4,6; Isaiah 13:10). The third “heaven” frequently mentioned in Scripture is the spiritual heaven in which Jehovah dwells (Psalm 2:4; Hebrews 9:24), and where, one day, the faithful will live forevermore (Revelation 21:18-23; John 14:1-3; cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3). [NOTE: The word “firmament” (meaning expanse) is used in the same three ways “heaven” is used. Thus, what is said about heaven also can be said of the firmament (cf. Genesis 1:20; Genesis 1:17; Psalm 150:1).] The context of John 3 clearly indicates that Jesus is referring to the spiritual heavens wherein God dwells (cf. John 3:27). 2 Kings 2:11, however, is not as clear. The writer of 2 Kings easily could have meant that the body of Elijah miraculously ascended up high into the air never to been seen by anyone on Earth again. Nowhere does the text indicate that he left Earth at that moment to dwell in God’s presence. He definitely went somewhere, but we have no evidence that he was transferred to the actual throne room of God Almighty.The Bible indicates that when God’s faithful servants leave this Earth, their spirits are taken to dwell in a place referred to as paradise (or “the bosom of Abraham”—Luke 16:19-31). Recall when Jesus was fastened to the cross, and told the penitent thief, “Today, you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). The word paradise is of Persian derivation, and means a “garden” or “park.” Where was it that Jesus and the thief went? Neither of them went to heaven to be with God the Father on that very day, for in John 20:17 after His resurrection, Jesus reassured Mary that He had not yet ascended to the Father. So where did Jesus and the thief go after dying on the cross? Peter gave the answer to that question in his sermon in Acts 2 when he quoted Psalm 16. Acts 2:27 states that God would not abandon Christ’s soul in hades, nor allow Christ to undergo decay. So while Christ’s body was placed in a tomb for three days, Christ’s spirit went to hades. [NOTE: The word hades occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the receptacle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await for the Lord’s return and judgment. One part of hades, where Jesus and the thief went, is known as paradise.] Peter argued that David, who penned Psalm 16, was not referring to himself, since David’s body was still in the tomb (Acts 2:29), and his spirit was still in the hadean realm (Acts 2:34). Acts 2 indicates that a faithful servant of God does not go directly to be with God the Father when he dies; rather, he goes to a holding place in hades known as paradise—the same place where Abraham went after he died (Luke 16), and the same place where the spirit of Elijah went after he was caught up from the Earth. In short, the Bible does not teach that Elijah left Earth to begin immediately dwelling in the presence of the Father (where Jesus was before His incarnation—John 1:1). Thus, technically he did not ascend to the “place” whence Jesus came.For the sake of argument, consider for a moment that the skeptic is right, and that Elijah’s spirit did not go to paradise, but was taken to dwell in the very presence of God. Could Jesus still have made the statement He did, and yet not be inaccurate? I believe so. Notice again the response to Nicodemus’ question, “How can these things be?” Jesus said: “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:12-13, emp. added). It may be that Jesus meant nothing more than that no one has ever gone up to heaven “by his own act” or “on his own terms” (see Bullinger, 1888, pp. 281-282). Elijah and Enoch had been taken by God, which is different than freely ascending up into heaven on one’s own terms. Furthermore, Jesus’ words, “No one has ascended to heaven,” also could have meant that no one has ever gone up into heaven to then return and speak firsthand about what he saw, and to spread the same saving message that Jesus preached. Jesus was emphasizing to Nicodemus how no one on Earth at that time was revealing such spiritual truths as Christ was, because no one ever had ascended to heaven to then return and talk about what he had seen and learned. Such seems to have been the main point Jesus was making in John 3:13. No one on Earth had seen what Jesus had seen, and thus could not teach what He taught.Truly, the skeptic’s accusation that Jesus either lied or was mistaken regarding his comment to Nicodemus about no one having ascended to heaven, is unsubstantiated. Perhaps the word heaven used in 2 Kings 2:11 was not meant to convey the idea of the spiritual heavens in which God dwells. Or, considering the Bible’s teaching on departed spirits of the righteous being in a holding place known as paradise, and not in the actual presence of Almighty God, Jesus could have meant that no person has ever ascended to the throne room of God from which He came. Furthermore, it also is interesting to note that Nicodemus, being “a man of the Pharisees” (John 3:1), and thus one who would have been very well acquainted with the details of the Old Testament, did not respond to Jesus by saying, “Wait a minute Rabbi. What about Elijah and Enoch? Isn’t it written in the law and prophets that they ascended to heaven?” Surely, had Jesus contradicted something in the law and the prophets, it would have been brought to His attention, especially by a Pharisee. Yet, the apostle John never records such a statement.Admittedly, at first glance, it might appear as if the statements, “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and, “No man has ascended to heaven” (John 3:13), are contradictory. However, when a person considers all of the possible solutions to the alleged problem, he must admit that such an interpretation is unjustified.REFERENCESBullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).Jevons, W. Stanley (1928), Elementary Lessons in Logic (London: Macmillan). Copyright © 2004 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved. We are happy to grant permission for items in the "Alleged Discrepancies" section to be reproduced in part or in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) textual alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden; (5) Some illustrations (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, etc.) are not the intellectual property of Apologetics Press and as such cannot be reproduced from our site without consent from the person or organization that maintains those intellectual rights; (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, excepting brief quotations, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken. For catalog, samples, or further information, contact: Apologetics Press 230 Landmark Drive Montgomery, Alabama 36117 U.S.A. Phone (334) 272-8558 http://www.apologeticspress.org
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dailyfeed reports new and opinions
Menu Bizarro-World Media It’s obvious that the media abides an institutional racial double standard in how mass shootings and terrorist acts are reported. This double standard has the appearance of a coordinated operation, but it needn’t be to achieve the same effect. All you’d require is a media vastly overstaffed with shitlibs who think alike. Over at Sailer’s, Anonymous[396] calls this Bizarro-World media, Watching the MSM reaction to the Christchurch Massacre is like watching the Bizarro-World reaction to Islamic Massacres. 1) As soon as it happened everyone started calling the perpetrator a terrorist, which was 100% accurate given his elaborate streaming setup. But a Muslim can hack people to death while shouting Allahu Ackbar and we really need to wait until all the facts are in, preferably until people forget about it. 2) Muslim terrorists are lone wolves who have nothing to do with Islam but any time a white(or even partly-white guy) engages in terrorist behaviour, it’s part of a worldwide movement that somehow combines Islamophobes, White Nationalists, incels and 4chan, no matter how tenuous the links are. In fact, many Islamic terrorists in the west are the exact equivalent of Breivik and apparently this guy-people who got all their ideas from a specific messed-up corner of the internet but never attended a training camp of any kind or are part of a large network of co-conspirators. 3) MSM gatekeepers are doing their best not to give viewers any information that might cast Islam in a negative light. During a Canadian round-table on the CBC, the talking heads pointed out the unmistakable reference to Alexandre Bissionette on the terrorist’s gun case, while leaving viewers to wonder what “For Rotherham” meant. I find that the reporting on these mass shootings follows a trend. If shooter was nonwhite, it’s a news blurb then quickly forgotten. If the shooter was white, it’s a few days of “diversity & inclusion” sanctimony and goodwhite virtue signaling, plus candlelight vigils, but no in-depth, exploratory reporting of motives. The media isn’t keen for normies to know too much about what motivates White vengeance shooters. (In the case of the NZ shooter, he was motivated in part to avenge the death of a Swedish girl who was cut in half by a truck driven by a moslem terrorist. Steve Sailer thinks the shooting may have been blowback from the illegal Kosovo War from 20 years ago.) The media DOES NOT WANT anyone to know that the Whites who died at the hands of moslem terrorists is what motivated the NZ shooter. That muddies the anti-White narrative more than a bit, because it calls attention to a fundamental question: If there wasn’t so much moslem terrorism, there wouldn’t be an occasional White backlash. Likewise, if there weren’t so much diversity forcibly imposed on Whites in their own nations, there might not be so much intertribal violence. Normal Whites might begin to reasonably wonder about this whole forced diversity project. Just think how many lives would be saved if White nations were left to be homogeneous. All of anon’s points are spot on. The media gives the benefit of the doubt to nonwhite perps even after all the facts prove otherwise but is quick to indict White perps even before a single fact is known. The media excuses the nonwhite collective for the violent actions of many nonwhites, but blames the White collective for the violent action of one White person. The media hides evidence that undermines the anti-White narrative, but concocts smears to bolster that narrative. We dissident renegades know the score; now we just wait for the great bloated mass of inert normies to catch on to what is already very clear to us: Mass media is the enemy of White people. Polling over may years clearly shows that a significant minority to an outright majority of moslems all over the world say in surveys that they support the actions of islamic terrorists who target infidels. In stark contrast, there is barely a tiny fraction of a percent of Whites who support the actions of lone wolf White terrorists. Islamic terrorism feeds off a vast network of social support and leaders who will excuse their violent foot soldiers. Many islamic terror operations are the result of coordinated operations involving multiple family and clan members and even state level support, occurring within a social context that tolerates violent extremists when not outright arming them up and encouraging them to attack westerners. White reactionary terrorism enjoys none of that. They are almost entirely lone wolf attacks with no support from kin or clan, and no supportive social structure or tacit state encouragement to energize them. Therefore, it’s far more accurate and truthful to blame islamic terrorism on the moslem collective than it is to blame White reactionary terrorism on the White collective. But shitlibs do the opposite, because it’s not about accuracy or truth, it’s about scapegoating Whites for the dysfunction of nonWhites. J. Ross exposes the dark intentions of bizarro-world media, They are moving very strongly to censor social media and criminalize speech. BBC Radio in the immediate aftermath talked about the need to monitor thought in almost those words. No one considers that people might be reacting to what they see around them with their own eyes — there is always this faith that folks are captured by some conjuration and mighty magic, in other words, the thoroughly trashed premise of the SPLC and the ADL which led them to attack Gibson’s Passion of the Christ and Bavarian Easter celebrations. The mainstream national and international news already censors crimes against whites, and police agencies across Western Europe spent about half a year pretending that nothing happened on New Year’s Eve in Cologne. They must be looking at places like this next. Left-wing censorship, exemplified by media whorenalists calling for speech restrictions, is another case of psychological projection. Media shitlibs accuse their foes of fooling people with agitprop that media shitlibs themselves engage in to force an unnatural conformism to their anti-White worldview. The media cries out for censorship of political dissidents because they know the power of propaganda; they’ve been doing it for decades and have largely succeeded, until now, at keeping certain topics of discussion out of mainstream discourse. But the pressure built up way too much; the safety valves are blowing all over the anti-White hate machine. Media shitlibs know normies are “captured by [the media’s] conjuration and mighty magic”, and they want to keep that power out of the hands of the people and for themselves. Thus, Globohomo’s ramped up calls for tyrannical speech restrictions and Big Brother thoughtcrime censorship. By the commutative property of psychological projection, when the media says that dissidents must be monitored, what they’re really saying is “the media must be monitored”. Share this: Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)2Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)2Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window) Related That's An Imam, Baby!In "Beta" Yes We Khan....Send Them BackIn "Current Events" Freelance Comment Of The Week: The Jihad-Hashtag CycleIn "Comment Winners" March 17, 2019 54 Replies « Previous Next » Leave a Reply Your email address will not be published. Comment Name Email Website Notify me of new comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email. stg58animalmother on March 17, 2019 at 4:07 pm My dad was calling them the Prostitute National Press in the 60’s. They’ve been at it a while. Liked by 4 people Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:40 pm Your ol man is(was?)BASED AF bro! Liked by 2 people Reply stg58animalmother on March 17, 2019 at 11:25 pm Yes he was Like Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 11:35 pm Did u not make it to being professional Athlete? Did he go out hard? Like Looch El Sicario on March 17, 2019 at 4:23 pm I doubt normies will ever have a sense of racial solidarity as long as whites are a majority. Liked by 1 person Reply P.K. Griswold on March 17, 2019 at 5:56 pm Normies won’t have a sense of racial solidarity until they are *scared*. Becoming a minority in your own country might do that. Then again it might not. Like Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:42 pm You’ve seen these twats…..they won’t. Like Jay in DC on March 17, 2019 at 7:00 pm What he said… there is already precedent well established. Every single one that has been killed even children, the family members put up their tail feathers with the bright virtue signaling plummage. They sacrificed their own flesh & blood on the altar of die-versity to wash the original sin of RAYCISS off of them. The brainwashed are religious zealots more than willing to die for their faith. This is nothing new and has repeated many times in history under different radical banners. Mass culling is the play here. Like NeoChronopolis on March 17, 2019 at 8:37 pm The most bizarre part of all is the ritual of self-abasement parents go through when their kids are slaughtered. Explained as an actual Jonestown-level psychosis actually explains alot. It’s remarkable that these killers haven’t, by sheer coincidence, killed a kid of an Ellie Nesler-type. Only a matter of time, I guess. Like Lichthof on March 17, 2019 at 8:10 pm White babies born today in the US are a minority Like Reply snarkwolf on March 17, 2019 at 4:37 pm It is worth noting that the perp shot nine people in the first mosque, then moved on the second mosque. Why did he switch? There must have been plenty more congregants! Then, at the second mosque, he killed about 40 people. Why the early switch??? Anser: Because one of the congregants at the first mosque starting shooting back. Liked by 3 people Reply Mr Meener on March 17, 2019 at 5:01 pm who cares Liked by 1 person Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:44 pm I do. It shows that an UNcucked populous FIGHTS BACK. We can despise them all we want, but we can’t call them cucked……… Theres a lesson in that. Liked by 1 person Lichthof on March 17, 2019 at 8:12 pm Snark…did you watch the video? Like Reply LOL on March 17, 2019 at 4:38 pm I don’t want to sound alarmist here, but it’s plainly obvious to me that the *only* thing that will shut Islamic forces up is more force. Even after 9/11, No-one dared respond with force (in the states at least). Force – even in its mildest form: academic critique -was actively condemned. in the absence of any force these fucks grew bolder. For the first time in years, these fucks are shitting their bitch pants. Rightfully so. Liked by 1 person Reply Corinth Arkadin on March 17, 2019 at 5:57 pm I think that’s only a taste of what’s to come. The genie’s out of the bottle. NZ, Australia…Europe? Or perhaps some enterprising American decides that enuff, no more. Liked by 2 people Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:48 pm Explaining his rage to a(((well placed))) nigress….this is why we lose. Liked by 1 person Corinth Arkadin on March 17, 2019 at 8:46 pm It’s just a clip. Context of the stream is what I was going for Like dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:45 pm YUUUUUPPPPP Like Reply NeoChronopolis on March 17, 2019 at 8:40 pm No one dared? Tom Tancredo used the bully pulpit of a congressional seat to call for the nuking of Mecca in retribution and even Ron Paul called for the issuing of letters of marque and reprisal (an excellent idea BTW). (((Someone))) muzzled, drugged and threw the raging momma bear down a well – and we’ve been there ever since. Well, until Brievik… Like Reply Ironsides on March 17, 2019 at 4:53 pm Well, the jews, the left, and the invaders have been sowing the wind for decades now. Can’t be surprised when the seeds eventually yield a harvest. And the original suggests the nature of what will grow. Liked by 1 person Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:49 pm H3il V1KTORY!!!!!! Like Reply Captain John Charity Spring MA on March 17, 2019 at 5:03 pm Brenton Tarrant did what Breivik didn’t do. He created a live stream of his terrorism and that means the press have literally no story to report and no ability to lie about. Liked by 3 people Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:49 pm You underestimate our foe, sir. Like Reply Mr Meener on March 17, 2019 at 5:16 pm I wonder if the muslims will get billions from homeland security like the jews get Liked by 1 person Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:50 pm Count on it. Like Reply NeoChronopolis on March 17, 2019 at 8:42 pm A millions Somalis in the Twin Cities and Fargo say “DurkaDurka amawahnajihad” which means “Yes” in Skinny. Like Reply Jack Archer on March 17, 2019 at 5:23 pm Do you really believe people are so inattentive so as to fall for media misdirection? C’mon, goys, that all nonsense… Liked by 1 person Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:54 pm WELL PLAYED, JA! Bet that guy gets endless puddy. Like Reply Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 7:19 pm Talked so many orders so fast Touched him so many Times Had him jumping through his own Asshole Liked by 1 person Reply P.K. Griswold on March 17, 2019 at 6:10 pm “They are almost entirely lone wolf attacks with no support from kin or clan, and no supportive social structure or tacit state encouragement to energize them.” Total paradigm shift with Brenton Tarrant. I was personally stunned by the general indifference so many people expressed and even outright support the guy received from A LOT of people. Liked by 2 people Reply Lichthof on March 17, 2019 at 8:15 pm Yep. Shitlib media sites had to disable comments. The scum at the Guardian never opened a comment section. I read the manifesto and did not see Trump mentioned. Did I miss it? Like Reply NeoChronopolis on March 17, 2019 at 8:47 pm Totally surprised this Christmas talking to a certain Boomer of my acquaintance. He asked “Ever heard of Anders Breivik? What do you think of him.” “Meh, did what needed to be done, it seems,” says I. “Norway’s in better shape than other Scandi nations, now.” I was surprised when he said “I can’t really disagree with any of that.” His churchmouse wife was nodding silently in the background. Former hippies, a Unitarian and Catholic schoolgirl, earlier in life. We’re in a shift for sure. Gen Zyklon will bring the fire whether we’re ready for it or not… Liked by 1 person Reply Blue pill society on March 17, 2019 at 6:15 pm Attitudes are shifting regarding this. People in public are scared to speak their minds for fear of reprisal of loss of employment. The whispering voices supporting this are growing. Western civilization is starting to see through the BS. When you force a nation to accept multiculturalism it usually leads to a resurgence of nationalism. When the west rises this time we may not stop like in previous instances where we had enough. Liked by 2 people Reply Jay in DC on March 17, 2019 at 7:03 pm “When the west rises this time we may not stop like in previous instances where we had enough.” This must occur and in the ways most people are very uncomfortable with which includes women and children. In the same way that you wouldn’t look at a roach carrying an egg sac and think ‘well, they haven’t had a chance yet’. This is no different. They outbreed us geometrically and their women are the vector of that. The next generation will simply be more of the same. If this were to pop off it would have to be scorched earth until none remained. Liked by 2 people Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 7:51 pm You are welcome in my foxhole bro. Liked by 1 person NeoChronopolis on March 17, 2019 at 8:49 pm Balkans c. 1990s were the pregame. We’re in the top of the first inning of a global-scale Rourke’s Drift now. Like dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 6:38 pm “Mass media is the enemy of White people.” My stupid cunt of a daughter in law has a home tee-shirt applique machine and this WILL BE printed and worn by me out n about. OT buuuuuuutttt…… MAD PROPS to the Proprietor for scouring his bl0gs kk0mments section and recognizing his pupils greatness. Like Reply Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 7:08 pm The enemy of all people Liked by 1 person Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 7:17 pm I get your point GSG but I only care about my own kin and kitlth Like walawala on March 17, 2019 at 6:42 pm First thing Western YTs do is try to separate themselves from this act. First thing Muzzies do following an attack or when a child sax grooming trial is revealed is cry wacism. Like Reply Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 7:28 pm Nogs give a bitch crack heroin Then cut them off till do what they want No grooming needed really Drugs perfected pimping Like Reply JOSEPH ANGEL on March 17, 2019 at 7:41 pm So, when you say ‘Media’, you are trying to tell us something? It was on the tippy-tip of my tongue. It will come to me. Liked by 1 person Reply Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 7:47 pm Not all jews in media Just some of them Like Reply dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 7:54 pm GSG, you’ve seen too much and give too many a pass bro Like Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 7:56 pm Not all of the jews are in media Like dblr619 on March 17, 2019 at 7:53 pm Jooing intensifies….. Like Reply Pingback: Bizarro-World Media | Reaction Times X on March 17, 2019 at 8:15 pm “I find that the reporting on these mass shootings follows a trend. If shooter was nonwhite, it’s a news blurb then quickly forgotten. If the shooter was white, it’s a few days of “diversity & inclusion” sanctimony and goodwhite virtue signaling, plus candlelight vigils…” In either case, the “trend” also includes the inevitable demands to ban and confiscate guns from the white population, leading them disarmed and defenceless against the brown hordes… Like Reply Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 8:55 pm Yea Better take up swordfighting and buy bulletproof armour Its pretty cheap online Put rock filled cement Plates n Bullets richoche off Like Reply Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 8:58 pm Bout three inchi cement rock combined Try it at range Like Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 9:02 pm Used to shoot cement trashcan like the with ak rounds when young Made little dents in it didnt come close to Going through now a car door yea go through Metal go through But not prob three inches Not Eastwood ahead of its time when he put metal plate over his chest to detect bullets A rope and piece of metal Of world can create own bullet proof body armour by hand Make knights great again Like Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 9:06 pm Hollywood told US how to defend in a western a long time ago Ironic shit Like Gunslingergregi on March 17, 2019 at 9:24 pm The army didnt really teach me shit bout Fighting i taught myself Just like i taught myself computers Excel and shit Up to other people id of been a moron Just like them lol Like Copyright © 2018. 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stevefinnellp-blog · 5 years
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"No One has Ascended to Heaven"by Eric Lyons, M.Min. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus regarding the need to be “born again” (John 3:1-8), He also sought to impress upon the mind of this ruler of the Jews that His words were from above. Jesus spoke of spiritual things that no man knew (Matthew 13:35; cf. 7:28-29; Luke 2:47). One of the reasons Jesus gave for being able to expound on such spiritual truths is found in John 3:13. Here, the apostle John recorded Jesus as having said to Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:13). According to the skeptic, this statement by Jesus is severely flawed. Since the Old Testament reveals that Elijah escaped physical death and “went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11; cf. Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5), allegedly Jesus could not truthfully tell Nicodemus, “No one has ascended to heaven.” Is the skeptic right?For Jesus’ statement to contradict what the Bible says about Elijah, one first must presuppose that Jesus was referring to the exact same place to which Elijah ascended. For a contradiction to exist between two Bible passages, one must prove that the one doing the speaking (or writing) is referring to the same person, place, or thing (see Jevons, 1928, p. 118). Can the skeptic be certain that the “heaven” to which Jesus referred, is the same one into which the body of Elijah ascended? The words “heaven” or “heavens” appear in our English Bibles about 700 times. And yet, in many of the passages where “heaven(s)” is found, the inspired writers were not discussing the spiritual heaven with which we most often associate the word. For example, in Genesis 1 and 2, the Hebrew word for heaven appears 15 times in 14 verses. Yet in every instance, the word is referring to something besides the spiritual heaven where God dwells. The word “heaven” (Hebrew shamayim, Greek ouranos) is used by Bible writers in basically three different ways. It is used to refer to the atmospheric heavens in which the airplanes fly, the birds soar, and the clouds gather (Genesis 1:20; Jeremiah 4:25; Matthew 6:26, ASV). “Heaven(s)” also is used in the Bible when referring to the firmament where we find the Sun, Moon, and stars—the sidereal heavens, or outer space (Genesis 1:14-15; Psalm 19:4,6; Isaiah 13:10). The third “heaven” frequently mentioned in Scripture is the spiritual heaven in which Jehovah dwells (Psalm 2:4; Hebrews 9:24), and where, one day, the faithful will live forevermore (Revelation 21:18-23; John 14:1-3; cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3). [NOTE: The word “firmament” (meaning expanse) is used in the same three ways “heaven” is used. Thus, what is said about heaven also can be said of the firmament (cf. Genesis 1:20; Genesis 1:17; Psalm 150:1).] The context of John 3 clearly indicates that Jesus is referring to the spiritual heavens wherein God dwells (cf. John 3:27). 2 Kings 2:11, however, is not as clear. The writer of 2 Kings easily could have meant that the body of Elijah miraculously ascended up high into the air never to been seen by anyone on Earth again. Nowhere does the text indicate that he left Earth at that moment to dwell in God’s presence. He definitely went somewhere, but we have no evidence that he was transferred to the actual throne room of God Almighty.The Bible indicates that when God’s faithful servants leave this Earth, their spirits are taken to dwell in a place referred to as paradise (or “the bosom of Abraham”—Luke 16:19-31). Recall when Jesus was fastened to the cross, and told the penitent thief, “Today, you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). The word paradise is of Persian derivation, and means a “garden” or “park.” Where was it that Jesus and the thief went? Neither of them went to heaven to be with God the Father on that very day, for in John 20:17 after His resurrection, Jesus reassured Mary that He had not yet ascended to the Father. So where did Jesus and the thief go after dying on the cross? Peter gave the answer to that question in his sermon in Acts 2 when he quoted Psalm 16. Acts 2:27 states that God would not abandon Christ’s soul in hades, nor allow Christ to undergo decay. So while Christ’s body was placed in a tomb for three days, Christ’s spirit went to hades. [NOTE: The word hades occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the receptacle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await for the Lord’s return and judgment. One part of hades, where Jesus and the thief went, is known as paradise.] Peter argued that David, who penned Psalm 16, was not referring to himself, since David’s body was still in the tomb (Acts 2:29), and his spirit was still in the hadean realm (Acts 2:34). Acts 2 indicates that a faithful servant of God does not go directly to be with God the Father when he dies; rather, he goes to a holding place in hades known as paradise—the same place where Abraham went after he died (Luke 16), and the same place where the spirit of Elijah went after he was caught up from the Earth. In short, the Bible does not teach that Elijah left Earth to begin immediately dwelling in the presence of the Father (where Jesus was before His incarnation—John 1:1). Thus, technically he did not ascend to the “place” whence Jesus came.For the sake of argument, consider for a moment that the skeptic is right, and that Elijah’s spirit did not go to paradise, but was taken to dwell in the very presence of God. Could Jesus still have made the statement He did, and yet not be inaccurate? I believe so. Notice again the response to Nicodemus’ question, “How can these things be?” Jesus said: “If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man” (John 3:12-13, emp. added). It may be that Jesus meant nothing more than that no one has ever gone up to heaven “by his own act” or “on his own terms” (see Bullinger, 1888, pp. 281-282). Elijah and Enoch had been taken by God, which is different than freely ascending up into heaven on one’s own terms. Furthermore, Jesus’ words, “No one has ascended to heaven,” also could have meant that no one has ever gone up into heaven to then return and speak firsthand about what he saw, and to spread the same saving message that Jesus preached. Jesus was emphasizing to Nicodemus how no one on Earth at that time was revealing such spiritual truths as Christ was, because no one ever had ascended to heaven to then return and talk about what he had seen and learned. Such seems to have been the main point Jesus was making in John 3:13. No one on Earth had seen what Jesus had seen, and thus could not teach what He taught.Truly, the skeptic’s accusation that Jesus either lied or was mistaken regarding his comment to Nicodemus about no one having ascended to heaven, is unsubstantiated. Perhaps the word heaven used in 2 Kings 2:11 was not meant to convey the idea of the spiritual heavens in which God dwells. Or, considering the Bible’s teaching on departed spirits of the righteous being in a holding place known as paradise, and not in the actual presence of Almighty God, Jesus could have meant that no person has ever ascended to the throne room of God from which He came. Furthermore, it also is interesting to note that Nicodemus, being “a man of the Pharisees” (John 3:1), and thus one who would have been very well acquainted with the details of the Old Testament, did not respond to Jesus by saying, “Wait a minute Rabbi. What about Elijah and Enoch? Isn’t it written in the law and prophets that they ascended to heaven?” Surely, had Jesus contradicted something in the law and the prophets, it would have been brought to His attention, especially by a Pharisee. Yet, the apostle John never records such a statement.Admittedly, at first glance, it might appear as if the statements, “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), and, “No man has ascended to heaven” (John 3:13), are contradictory. However, when a person considers all of the possible solutions to the alleged problem, he must admit that such an interpretation is unjustified.REFERENCESBullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).Jevons, W. Stanley (1928), Elementary Lessons in Logic (London: Macmillan). Copyright © 2004 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved. 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