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awesomestarfighter · 5 months

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I Should Have Known Better Then To Debate My Brother On Star Wars But I Did It Anyway

That's a lengthy way to start a post, I know, but I'm in a very riled up mood right now.

I remember the first time I argued with him about this. Our family did a rewatch of the Star Wars series (prequels than originals) at my request (and I usually never get emotional, so they were very concerned when I started crying my eyes out during Order 66 and asking if we should stop) and afterwards we talked.

Since I'm an avid Pro Jedi fan, there was a lot of arguing about 'The Jedi could have done this/should have done this!'. A bit with my family, but mostly with my brother since we're an argumentative pair and he's the only one who's watched extra materials such as TCW to further why the Jedi failed/should have done more.

We had to agree to disagree, so it ended there. Now here I am years later, having already talked to him about why glorifying this particularly abusive M/F is not peak romance or good writing, what defines bad writing, and general amatonormativity, and since I'm back in a SW swing, I thought about bringing it up to him, hoping he'd gotten a little more flexible since the last time we talked about it.

Clearly, I was too optimistic to think that.

Cue the usual tangent of (which I've already seen from. . . So many fans):

-The Jedi should have known Palpatine was a Sith.

-They should have treated Anakin better.

-They should have made him a Master.

-They shouldn't have given him that advice about death.

-Obi-Wan wasn't ready for a Padawan.

-They should have investigated Sifo-Dyas's murder.

-They should have investigated more.

-That's just the way the story is written and how the characters would react in real life, so of course Filoni is a good viewpoint on the Jedi.

. . . And just the general, 'they should have done more' statement that's been uttered countless times before.

I tried to point out the flaws in this way of thinking, I really did.

-It's established right in TPM that the Sith have been extinct for a very long time, and they verbally acknowledge that they don't know whether the one killed was the Master of the Apprentice, so it wasn't like they just up and forgot about the enemy that could still be out there. And it's literally stated in the very next movie that their ability to use the Force has been diminished, so it's not like they could have seen the Sith in plain sight in the force. Minor note, I know Force Signatures are mentioned a lot in fanon, but I don't remember anything like that ever being mentioned in canon (I know there's Legends but that's a separate continuity). With all that to keep in mind, why would they think he was a Sith? We have a different view of things because we're the audience, but they don't! Even though they didn't magically know he was the Sith Lord, that doesn't mean they're blind to his dealings or the corruption within the Senate, unless I completely hallucinated the part where the Jedi Masters were on their way to arrest Palpatine even before they learned he was a Sith Lord.

-Questioning a kid to see how he would respond to your ways of life is not being nice enough apparently (people can debate about his trauma and the authorial intent all day, but the basis is that the Jedi are not supposed to be framed as the bad guys). Apparently adopting him and treating him as a part of their family just isn't enough. Clearly, they should have coddled him even more, maybe then he wouldn't have murdered them down to the last child! (This is sarcasm because they never treated him differently or anything, even the Chosen One thing is barely brought up, and all his darkest moments are ones the Jedi were never made aware of). I know people will just say to put him in therapy because I've seen them say that many times before, but the truth is that he's already in therapy with the Jedi, he just doesn't absorb any of it because he doesn't want to.

-Yeah, because an adult throwing a temper tantrum when he's been appointed to a leading authority by a shady government leader who should not have any authority over their organization isn't sketchy as fuck, that response alone proves he WAS not ready, because he still didn't understand what the Jedi were about, much less mastery of himself. My brother at least admitted that was a good point when I outlined it, so score for me, I guess.

-People give Yoda grief all the time for his advice, but they always seem to forget that, firstly, Anakin is asking this during a war they've been fighting for three years, one they've lost many friends and family to, and secondly. . . Anakin was really fucking vague when he brought this forward. He doesn't even specify who he's talking about isn't a fellow Jedi, clone, or otherwise (And I can't help but draw a parallel to how he didn't tell Obi-Wan about his visions of Shmi and people will blame Obi-Wan when Anakin's the one who can't bother to properly fucking communicate) and he doesn't listen because it's not what he wants to hear. He doesn't just want to save Padme; he wants to cheat death because he's possessive and greedy and doesn't want his loved ones to ever leave him. Yoda's advice was actually very useful, but since when has Anakin ever listened to good advice? Once again, my brother admitted that was a good point, so the second score went to me.

-I know fandom loves to portray Obi-Wan as this self-hating mess that's barely keeping it together (who also does a lot of medic dodging for some reason?). . . But that's not who he is in canon? The real Obi-Wan is controlled and capable, and he was a young adult when he was Knighted, not a kid, who went on to become the youngest member of the Council when he became a Master. It wasn't like he was left to teach Anakin alone, because he had the Order, and they're canonically big on communal teaching. Even just in the movies, we frequently see that Obi-Wan's the one who reaches out to Anakin and Anakin's the one who shuts him out. Obi-Wan was a great teacher, Anakin was just a shit student.

-The Jedi learned about Sifo-Dyas's unauthorized role in the creation of the clone army literally right before the war broke out, so it wasn't like they were in a position where they could look more into it. Even before that, they were under the impression that he died during a failed peace negotiation. My brother still said this even though there was a literal WHOLE ASS ARC IN TCW WHERE THEY INVESTIGATED HIS DEATH. He watched that arc to, and he still says they should have investigated his death even when they literally did. I have no words for such a contradictory way of thinking.

-I know it's easy to say stuff like that, but Star Wars isn't written for adults who want all the messy bits, but for kids for a good vs evil story, so of course investigation stuff is shoved to the side. Even in TCW where we do see them investigating, they're hampered by the Senate, by Palpatine, by the war, and by the narrative. Even ignoring that, Anakin literally said in ROTS that Palpatine was the Sith THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, so that means they were investigating even though we didn't see it onscreen.

-Filoni. . . God just thinking about him makes me angry. I could write a whole essay on how he's twisted the narrative for Star Wars so badly, and I hate essays, but plenty of people have already done it better, so I won't.

-But still, I think it's hilarious that I can point out certain things he's written terribly (TCW, TOTJ, TTB, and Ahsoka) to show that he doesn't like the Jedi, and my brother is still saying, 'well that's just how the story is written and how the characters will react so he doesn't really hate the Jedi with that sort of evidence and blah blah blah.'

-Of course, for TCW, my brother brought up that stupid arc where AsHoKa iS pErSeCuTeD - I just think it's funny how, with trying to make his special oc look good and the Jedi Council unlikable, Filoni accidentally made her unintentional unsympathetic and made the dOgMaTiC lEaDeRsHiP unintentionally sympathetic. And of course, who could forget the infamous s7 moment of her not being fair to Obi-Wan? I know people will say she's a teenager and she's confused and she's still feeling betrayed - but the thing is, that doesn't hold up because the narrative never follows up on it. It's not a personal flaw of hers, it's solely there to frame Ahsoka (and Bo-Katan/the Mandalorians by proxy) as right and Obi-Wan (and the Jedi Council/Order by proxy) as wrong. I'm sure there are more examples that can be noted, but those are definitely two of the biggest offenses in my book.

-Tales of the Jedi wasn't even about the Jedi, it was about two specific individuals who LEFT the Jedi. One who went on to become invincible/immortal/a sanctimonious prick/even more of a mouthpiece then she already was, the other went on to become the undisputed head of an enemy who went full throttle on genocide, slavery, and war crimes. Mace's treatment and Yaddle's treatment was more poorly veiled racism and even more poorly veiled Jedi hate. And of course, the super special training from Anakin that allowed Ahsoka to survive Order 66 unlike those useless unprepared Jedi who were too soft on their kids - but really just made him look like an incredibly abusive parent. Frankly, while I do hate Anakin and can see him pushing too hard as in character, even I can see that it could have been written a lot better than it was. Tales of the Jedi was a fucking joke because it should have been titled 'Tales of The Super Special Creators Pet OC and the Asshole Who Falls And Spearheads A War', and if we ever get Jedi content that is actually positive for them without the usual criticisms coming up (Kenobi's the only one so far that's come the closest) I'll be throwing a fucking party.

-Of course, I have to point out TBB's whitewashing, consistently carried over from TCW except even whiter, though I forgot to mention how that show just completely fucking forgot the Jedi existed. Though frankly, I wouldn't want them to be mentioned in the utter waste of time that TBB is.

-Ahsoka was made into even more of a mouthpiece in her show then she already was. I didn't even watch Rebels in its entirety because I don't care for it, but even with some of the more frustrating decisions with her in that span of time she never said the Order wouldn't have fallen if they had just brought in more non-Force Sensitives to train them into being Force Sensitive (another part of canon that Filoni has fucking taken a hammer to) singing Anakin's praises after she's 'saved' by him (though even in Rebels it got pretty egregious how she just fucking abandons the Rebellion and the Jedi because she won't leave him again) just being a general fandom anti on how the Order was at fault for everything and Anakin was actually predestined to become a Sith (instead of defying his destiny by attacking Mace and siding with Palpatine as per Word of God) so everything he did was justified. All written and directed by Filoni, just as the other pieces where he's had narrative control will label the Jedi as arrogant, as forgetful, as unworthy, as not ENOUGH. And as soon as he can, he shoves them aside for characters who are 'to cool to be a Jedi, a cooler Jedi than those useless old Order jerks who spent too much time playing politics and being too stringent because they were cautious rule followers and not plucky rebels and weren't loving enough to poor widdle Anakin and -'

Though frankly my brother had some pretty ludicrous takes in general. There was this whole tangent we had about how since Rex removed his chip and voided death, that makes him gray/puts him in a gray zone. I just bluescreened at that, because while I've never cared for morally gray characters/storytelling, a character stepping out of their slated place in the narrative so obviously isn't gray it's not even funny, it's infuriating. While I know a part of me being a writer is what helps me look at stories more critically, it still makes me feel so confused how people will just take in bad writing or come up with bullshit takes like this. Whatever happened to thinking critically for the good of storytelling?

. . . I don't usually write my own posts (even though I'm usually better at wording things than actually voicing an argument as it started with my brother) because I prefer to just reblog stuff on my blog, I wrote this primarily as a vent post because my argument with my brother really got me stirred up, but I've been in a salty sw mood lately so it was kind of cathartic to get this out.

Also, if any Jedi anti or fan comes at me with 'but actually the Jedi should have -' no. Please just don't. I always try to tag stuff properly so people who won't agree will know what my blog themes are about, I'm never in the mood for the run of a mill gotcha takes that infest this fandom and I will not hesitate to block you if you come onto my post for that.

#good guys over bad guys #How to not write #sw #Anti Ahsoka #Anti Anakin #Anti Bo-Katan #Anti Dooku #Anti Filoni #Anti Mandalorians #Anti SW Fanon #Yoda #Obi-Wan #Rex #Pro Jedi #When it comes to terrible Star Wars takes and liking the heroes of the franchise I swim through an ocean that's more salt than actual water

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random-letters-i-just-thought-of · 10 months

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Clones mourning the Jedi

Ok, so, bear with me, my brain is constantly making up scenarios that I want to happen in Bad Batch Season 3. Most of the time I don't do anything with them, but this one today was especially emotional, so I just can't keep it to myself. Even though it doesn't fit into the story at all and is probably also very out of character. So… I need the connection between the clones and the Jedi to be appreciated, right? So my brain was like: How about we have the clones collectively, in their little community that they built, (which will also totally happen, right? I mean… clone rebellion?!?…please?!!), mourn the Jedi? And I was just: Umm… I don't think… And my brain went: Shut up, I've already made up a whole fucking ceremony and the precise camera angles and shots it will be shown in. So anyway, it starts with the Bad Batch needing Rex's help for a mission or something, so they go to him, and Rex is like: "Sure, but not today." So Hunter asks why, and he just says: "It's Empire Day." No missions till tomorrow morning." "Why? You're celebrating?", Wrecker asks jokingly. Rex huffs and flashes a sad little smile: "We're mourning."

Empire Day would be roughly the day Order 66 happened, right? I mean, I have no idea how space time works so I just assume that. So anyway, they go inside and meet all the other clones from Rex's little Network who sit together, talk and laugh, and many of them, most of them, are doing some sort of pottery. Echo is also there (which doesn't make sense because at this point he would have been back with the Bad batch already, but honestly, I don't care when this happens. Could also be way earlier. Actually, that would maybe be even better, so we can have Tech and Omega on board as well) so after some big hellos, of course the Bad Batch asks what's going on with this pottery stuff. Rex has excused himself at this point, but Echo shows them they're making little bowls and explains that it is part of the ceremony to honor the Jedi. At this point, it becomes a bit awkward for the Bad Batch since they never had such a connection to the Jedi and also experienced order 66 differently. But it gets better when Wrecker asks if he can make one for the little Padawan (Caleb), even though he hopes he survived. Just to remind of him. And Echo beams and says "sure" and shows them the bowl he's making for Ahsoka. He started it, still thinking she died during Order 66, but then Rex found out, teared up, and told him everything. He still makes her a bowl. To remember her. Because wherever she is now, even though she survived, the sassy, lighthearted, funny little commander he knew is definitely dead. So the Bad batch mixes with the other Clones. Wrecker makes his little bowl; maybe Hunter and Omega (if she's there) make one for Shaak Ti and Tech (if he's there) helps with the technical preparations for the ceremony and makes some valuable improvements. (Um, yeah, I have no Ideas for Crosshair. I'm open for suggestions! As said, not following any continuity/timeline here.) In the evening, everything is ready for the ceremony. It goes this way: Everyone who wants to has made a bowl for a specific Jedi, or several bowls for several Jedi, one bowl for multiple Jedi at once, or just one for all of them or no one in particular. They fill the bowls with a special material that will create a colorful flame when burned. Normally, they choose the color of their Jedi's lightsaber.

So for the ceremony, one after another lights up their lanterns, takes them to the little shrine or altar they built, says the name(s) of the one(s) they want to honor/remember maybe adds a little prayer if they feel like it, and then returns to the group to watch the flames leaping up to the sky. A colorful, beautiful mess, so bright, so hopeful, just like the Jedi were. Many bring blue ones for Shaak Ti, their beloved guardian on Kamino, who was killed by the ones she protected and watched over so lovingly. I'm thinking some of the Ryloth clones, the ones from Howzer's squad, maybe served under Mace Windu before they were stationed on Ryloth after the battle, so we get a few beautiful, strong purple flames. Wollfe brings one for Plo Koon, and his hands, ever shaking, now that his mind is no longer trustworthy, are steady when he sets down the bowl. His eyes, that are now mostly clouded by thoughts he can't voice, are clear for once as he remembers the brave man he fought side by side with, that he knows died wrongly even though his mind, corrupted by the chip for far too long, won't let him believe it. Cody's Hands (of course Cody is there, why wouldn't he be?) on the other hand are shaking as he brings forth the bowl he made for his general. It's not the only one for him on their little shrine, but it is probably by far the brightest and the most detailed. "Obi Wan Kenobi", he says, his voice is not shaking, but it's oh so quiet. He swallows hard and thinks for a moment before he adds: "Wherever you are right now… be safe. I miss you. I'm so sorry, love." And he wants to say so much more, but he doesn't know how, and now it's too late anyway. Echo's lantern for Ahsoka burns bright in the yellowish green he remembers, so fresh, so young, and so free. Rex is the last one to set down his lantern. "Anakin Skywalker", he says, making sure to place it right in the middle of the shrine, next to the bright blue flame that is Cody's lantern for Obi Wan and in front of the green one that is Ahsoka's. His voice does not shake, his steps do not falter, as he walks back to the group and turns around to watch the lights. (We see Hunter shooting Rex a quick, slightly worried, slightly curious glance because he's still convinced Anakin and Rex had something going on after that very suspicious scene in season 7.) We see the Bad Batch exchanging glances because they kind of feel like intruders. Because they suddenly feel grief over something they never even really knew. But then again, did any of them? We see Omega holding on to Hunter, deeply moved but not completely understanding why or what this is all about. We have a wide shot of all the clones standing in front of the lights, watching them with varying stages of grief. Some of them look deeply hurt; some of them smile sadly or even relieved as they watch the bright light resembling their friends, their mentors, their comrades, their idols. Only a very few of them are crying. Because even after all that's happened, they're still so strong. So used to the losses. Most of them watch the lights and gain strength. Grow a determined look on their face. They're going to make up for this. If there's one thing they can do, it's fight, so you bet that's what they're going to do. Cut to Rex staring into the flames and putting on his brave face for his brothers. His strong face as the leader. The determined face that makes it so easy, natural to follow him. He stares into the lights and knows this is his fight, the role he plays, the task he is set to fulfill. He is setting himself to fulfill. Their destiny is in their own hands now. And they're going to use it to make the galaxy the Jedi couldn't. It's what they owe them. And, most importantly, it's what they want to do, too. They were made to protect the galaxy, and damn well, they will. Because the Jedi gave them hope. Showed them that it can be different. Taught them to believe in themselves. In the human in every single one of them.

Cut to the Lanterns burning on the table, the colorful dancing flames, and it slowly zooms in on the bright blue flames of Anakin and Obi Wan burning next to each other.

But it doesn't stop there. It continues zooming in on Anakin's flame. And slowly, through the flickering light of Anakin's flame, we catch our first glimpse of Darth Vader. I'm thinking a Kenobi-like reveal. With dramatically swelling music and then just…breathing.

And then the screen goes black, bam episode over, bam Vader is the villain of Bad Batch now.

I know none of this makes sense, but it made me emotional, so….

Anyway if somebody else is having feels now, go listen to "Goodbye" by Ramsey, it's the song that was stuck in my head while writing this and it makes everything 100 times sadder :).

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