#post iliad technically?

[katerinaaqu]

Continuing from Part 2

Guilt (P3 + Footnotes)

"Odysseus" Meriones approached him, "Are you alright?"

Odysseus winced in pain. He hadn't realized he had clenched his fist so hard that it hurt him. He unclenched it.

"Yes..." he whispered, "Yes, I'm fine..."

Odysseus moaned. That baby...the look at that infant's face...Astyanax was gone...he had given his place to Telemachus. Priam's slain face was Laërtes...mourning Andromache was his wife... He grasped his head with both hands.

"Damn you Neoptolemus! Damn you Helen for starting it! Damn you Menelaus for dragging me into this... Damn you Palamedes! Damn you all! Why should I have taken this blood upon me?! Why did it have to be me?!"

He sighed.

"Polites...I want to be alone for a little while..."

"Do you think that is wise...?" Polites asked with hidden meaning.

"Wise!" Odysseus voiced like an echo, "No, perhaps not but I got tired of being wise for now..."

Polites sighed.

"At least add some water to your wine...please Odysseus"

Odysseus dismissed him with a move of his hand. He wasn't much in the mood for anything at that moment. He knew war wouldn't be pleasant but these events of just one night were taking the cake. He was exhausted; sleepless for two nights and a full day and right now the Sacker of Cities, the Man of Many Ways was terrified. He collapsed again and his tears overflowed from his eyes, wetting the table below. He grasped his wet hair with his fingers as if he was ready to uproot them.

"Gods! Please Athena, please, I beg of you...if you love me...p-protect my son! Let the miasma fall on me! Not him! I-I...I just wanted to g-go home! I just wanted to see them again...my Penelope...my Telemachus...! I-I never meant for this to happen! P-Please...! I beg of you if you love me...p-protect my son! Don't let the gods' wrath fall upon their heads! P-Please...! F-Forgive me! I...I just...I just wanted to go home!"

He couldn't decide what to pray for first... Words cascaded out of his mouth without any coherent way or syntax. He only prayed desperately, wetting with his tears the table. Sun was already setting and Troy was taken...but at what cost...

*

Menelaus and Agamemnon entered Odysseus's hut one after the other.

"I gotta give it to you, Odysseus!" Agamemnon said, "You WERE telling the truth when you said you could take Troy in one night!"

Odysseus was collapsed upon his chair, looking at them with an unreadable expression to his face. The jug was resting empty somewhere after the feet of his seat.

"Hm..." he hummed, "That's me. I am the trickster, remember? I lie, I scheme and I trick. That is what I do"

Agamemnon raised a brow.

"Are you drunk?!" He asked in disbelief

"One more shame to add to the events of this night..." Odysseus replied bitterly.

"Shame? I do not understand. We finally sacked the city. You can finally go home."

"Home..." Odysseus whispered, "I wonder...what shall I say to Penelope when she asks? Or Telemachus? If he asks 'father what did you do and you were away?', 'I was at war, my son', 'did you fight honorably and sack many cities?'... What shall I say for what we've done...?"

"I do not understand you Odysseus. It was your idea"

"Yeah somehow I do not doubt it..." Odysseus mumbled bitterly, "I was wrong, Agamemnon. This was not what I imagined...what I planned..."

He sighed shifting his position a bit to his chair.

"Priam is dead, you know that..."

"Yeah, like we expected to-..."

"On the altar. On the freaking altar, Agamemnon..."

"Yeah I heard..."

"Imagine that happening to any of us...in our homelands. If one cannot respect the holy laws then what?"

He played a bit with his empty cup.

"Priam murdered on the altar...Cassandra raped mercilessly and now Ajax looks for shelter to the very same altar he dragged her out of, to avoid being stoned to death..." the king of Ithaca rubbed the bridge of his nose, "...death...death and fire everywhere..."

"Odysseus..." spoke Menelaus, "I understand that you are grieving, it was not easy or pleasant but..."

"The boy...he was the same age as my son! Thrown off the wall..."

"Odysseus" Agamemnon spoke again, "I honestly don't understand you. Others would fly from joy with your glory. You had a good plan and it worked. Thanks to you we can all go home."

Odysseus's eyes became bottomless. Even Agamemnon had to lower his gaze against it.

"The blasphemy put us under the anger of gods, Agamemnon. Remember that. Listen..."

Agamemnon seemed like indeed trying to listen something.

"The Trojans are not the only ones mourning. We lost many good men too. We lost Achilles. Or have you forgotten?"

Agamemnon sighed deeply.

"His loss...was tragic indeed" he finally said, "we had our differences but his loss was a great price..."

"Quite so..." Odysseus whispered, "was it really worth it? The price we had to pay to sack Troy?"

He shifted his weight to his chair lethargically. He rubbed his forehead with his free hand for a second. The dizziness bad settled for real in his brain. He leaned his head back again, earning a small cracking sound from his neck.

"And since we are at it, I have a question for you, Agamemnon, son of Atreus, the first among the Greeks... What did the Trojans REALLY do to us to deserve such an end?"

"You're drunk! You don't know what you're talking about!"

Odysseus snorted humorlessly.

"Oh, I am drunk, alright. But I know exactly what I am talking about. And you do too. They took Helen, sure, or at least one of them did. But their real crime against us was that they protected their lands...from us. That's what we would have done as well..."

Agamemnon was ready to speak again but Menelaus stopped him.

"Brother, that's enough"

He then turned ti Odysseus sympathetically.

"Look, Odysseus, I understand that it hurts and I am sorry too that I put you through that indirectly, but please do not melt away. No matter what the actions of others was not your choice."

Odysseus said nothing. He only sighed.

"Will you join us at the games later? You are the hero of the day. Your presence is asked for."

Odysseus scoffed.

"Oh I will be there, alright. I never miss a good party!"

Menelaus smiled sadly.

"Thank you, Odysseus...for everything. I really mean it... I will see you later, when you sober up a little..."

He looked at his friend and added;

"And...we shall mention none...of this" he pointed at him indicating his condition.

Odysseus soullessly nodded as if wanting to attempt some humor.

"Thanks...I appreciate it"

Agamemnon was ready to say something but apparently he decided against it. He only sighed and turned to leave before finally asking;

"Will you come to take a pick from the spoils? You deserve it given it was thanks to you we got in"

The tired king made a dismissive move with his hand.

"No. I'm fine with whatever. Just include me to the next lottery" he replied indifferently

"Are you sure? You deserve a better share"

Odysseus smiled humorlessly.

"Last time I chose and defended my choice, we lost Aias the Telamonian. I think we lost enough for one decade, don't you think?"

It was a failure of attempt for humor and he knew it but Agamemnon only sighed.

"Suit yourself" he said defeated, heading for the exit

Menelaus was about to do the same but apparently something made him stop and turn around.

"Odysseus?"

"Hm?"

"Thank you...truly... You gave me back my honor

Odysseus snorted again.

"With the cost of mine..." he whispered bitterly, "Not that anyone ever thought I had any..."

The king of Sparta, though, shook his head negatively.

"To me you will always be the greatest of all Greeks"

The man who endured all torments looked up and for the first tike a small smile rose to his dry lips. That word of kindness was what he needed for his tormented heart to feel some sort of hope. At least there was finally one who neither blamed him nor glorified him. Menelaus saw his torment and responded. That was enough.

"Thank you..." he whispered

Menelaus nodded his head in return.

"Now rest, my friend. We have a long way before us...we are going home..."

Home...the tormented king of Ithaca thought. Yes, finally they could go home. After 10 endless years they could finally embrace their families. Just few more months of journey and Odysseus could finally go home... All he had to do was to learn to live with what he did... He watched both the kings through his cloudy vision, getting out of his tent and Polites coming back in.

"I am sorry, Odysseus! I couldn't stop them!"

Odysseus dismissed him with a hand gesture once more.

"Don't sweat it, Polites. Stopping a king seems impossible. Gods help us with two!"

Polites smiled softly. At least he would gain some of his humor back, he thought.

"Help me get to my bed, Polites..." sighed Odysseus hoarsely, "I need to rest... I am very tired..."

~~~~

Oh gosh what have I done?! Hehehehe well not sorry...not really! 😆 I hope you enjoyed this ride.

As you see I tried incorporating some of the Epic Cycle to the situation but I did tamper around with the timeliness. The Epic Cycle is a lovely mess anyways and holds many contradictions with the homeric poems but it includes many things.

Now the fragmentary poem Iliou Persis is sven mentioned how Odysseus throws Astyanax off the walls but most sources have Neoptolemus donit and I do agree with those more. Now in Trojan Women by Eurypedes the messenger Talthybius tells Andromache that Odysseus schemed so that her son would be thrown off the walls and that he persuaded the Greeks they couldn't raise the baby. Odysseus doesn't strike much as a baby killer in Odyssey or even the Iliad although he is known for being cruel in his punishments (see the excecution of the 50 conspiring slave girls) but nowhere jn Odyssey does Odysseus refer to that fact even if he does speak of his regrets for other actions of his and if he HAD thrown Astyanax off the walls himself I doubt he wouldn't have made any reference to it so I believe that Iliou Persis should he treated like Telegony when it comes to the homeric poems; a bit contradictory to the homeric epics (unless there is some lost fragment that tells us how Odysseus went on a rampage he could not remember lol 😆 ) so I made a mixture of all the above to show how Odysseus "killed" Astyanax or subconsciously persuaded the Greeks to do it and I added the role of Talthybius here too.

Iliou Persis seems to also be the most violent form when it comes to the Greek side such as that they offer Priam's daughter Polyxene to Achilles's tomb as a sacrifice, thus causing the rage of Athena (I swear the thing was written by a Trojan lol 😆) Eurypedes mentions how Polyxene was offered as slave to Achilles symbolically so she should serve his tomb. I also added the detail of Odysseus trying to persuade Neoptolemus to choose her as his price to speak Andromache but his attempts are a failure.

Drunkenness was severely discouraged in ancient geeece thus the concern in Polites's words when Odysseus uses it as a coping mechanism for the traumatic events of the night. Moreover the Greeks always mixed their wine with water (thus having the modern name for wine in Greek κρασί which comes from the verb in ancient greek which means "to mix") the wine that was not watered was called άκρατον and it was qlmost never consumed unless dipped in bread. The analogy between wine and water depended.

In this story I depict Neoptolemus as somehow a nemesis to Odysseus. Similar to what Agamemnon or Hector were for Achilles. I have no idea why but the idea stuck with me especially since the two are the two candidates for the murder of Astyanax. Somehow I imagined them again as the polar opposites thus the two of them having tension.

Odysseus mentions Thersites who was beaten really badly by him in the Iliad. In other sources it is mentioned that Odysseus has him stoned to death after Theraites attempts treason. In this story Thersites was already dead.

I know that for Palamedes the most famous version of his end comes from Hygenius who writes how Odysseus frames him for treason. However Pausanias mentions from the Epic Cycle that Palamedes drowned at a fishing expedition and that "he believes the murderers were Odysseus and Diomedes". 🤔 somehow I wanted to use a lesser known version plus give a bit room to doubt for instance did Palamedes really fell by accident and Odysseus is guilty for not helping? Or perhaps Odysseus pushed him? Maybe he held him under? Dunno. Leave it to your imagination. I know is not so spicy as the framing story but bare with me hehehe

Talthybius here simply hears "it was Odysseus who planned it" thus sending that information yo Andromache without the rest of the details..

Astyanax uttering a word was totally random. If he were an infant a few months old or almost a year old in Iliad that means he would be around 1 to 1.5 years old when Troy fell so I thought it would be more impactful if the poor baby uttered a word before his end.

The interaction with Andromache was placed there for the dramatics and the impact. When Andromache screams "MY BOY!" I was inspired by the series "The Tudors" when Anne Boleyn laments her final miscarriage (by the way I think Natalie Dormer would make an amazing Andromache!)

The story with Palamedes was also added to make the connection between two mothers and their impact to Odysseus. Plus I thought it would make more sense if Odysseus was furious not only for being embarrassed or that he has to go to war but because Palamedes put his son in danger. (Of course Penelope would be part of that scheme!)

Odysseus refusing to participate at the choice of spoils was just a random detail but as a general rule from Eurypedes it seems that he eats the old Ekavi (Hecuba) as his slave (probably she would be to serve Penelope( so I imagined Odysseus wouldn't want to choose but getting whatever would be lucky for him to further implicate that he wouldn't want anything further to do with the war. He also mentions the incident when Telamonian Aias (aka the great Ajax) went mad when Odysseus won Achilles's armor from him and then he killed himself in shame.

I also wanted to portray the friendship between Menelaus and Odysseus which seems to be really strong since Menelaus always talks with the warmest words for Odysseus.

For further questions and analysis please ask me to the comment section or reblog etc!

I wanna also tag some of my best friends commenters rebloggers etc! Thank you guys! Sorry if I forget anyone!

@loco-bird @aaronofithaca05 @tunguszka20 @doob-or-something @jarondont @prompted-wordsmith @simugeuge @fangirlofallthefanthings

#greek mythology #odysseus #the odyssey #the iliad #greek myth #odyssey #the odyssey 1997 #polytalas the one who suffers too much #polytalas #post iliad technically? #iliad fanfic #iliad fanfiction #sacking of troy #massacre of troy #odysseus was severely traumatized #trauma #odysseus of ithaca #polites #agamemnon #menelaus #tagamemnon #homeric poems inspirations #homeric poems #homeric epics #homer #odysseus and penelope #epic

[faustandfurious]

Look, the most chilling part of the Iliad is definitely how the gods interact with the war and the mortals caught up in it. Their complete disconnect from the reality of death and grief. They’re like cosmic authors more concerned with narrative themes, interesting character arcs and fated moments of glory and tragedy, than with the blood and sweat and grit and stench of the battlefield. The gods are Homer. The gods are the readers. The readers are complicit in the cosmic horror being played out before their eyes.

#the iliad #cosmic horror odyssey #technically not the odyssey but this is my tag for those posts now

[dootznbootz]

Menelaus really is the type of man who would just decide to adopt you if you asked. In Book 6 of the Iliad, some goober named Adrestus faceplanted into the dirt and begged for his life so Menelaus just took him for ransom and Agamemnon had to remind him "Hey! You're too nice! You're being hospitable towards the Trojans when they already disrespected your hospitality?". And even then it's technically Agamemnon who kills Adrestus. Literally one of Menelaus' epithets is "War Loving". He's definitely a warrior but he's also just really nice 😭

#I know 'war loving' is probably because of the fact that it's technically on his and Helen's Behalf that they're fighting the war for #but still. the irony!!! #I'm not saying Menelaus 'isn't a fighter' as he absolutely is. He's just a good man who probably would choose kindness if he could #and it's just really endearing #Menelaus of Sparta A.K.A. Your new dad. #Modern AU of Menelaus teaching random kids how to ride their bikes #honestly I'ma just ramble and post constant little bits of the Iliad that I love >:D #Mad rambles #shot by odysseus #menelaus #iliad #the iliad #tagamemnon #greek mythology

[wolfythewitch]

Another hi, also could you tell me more about your love for Odysseus? I think this is super interesting. I always struggled to like him. I mean he lived through so many adventures but he also seems to forget his family and live his life happily with other women. I always pitied Penelope so much. So I always wanted to strangled him. I mean I love bad characters but how he he basically says "wife son kingdom I missed you so much. I never forget you." feels super wrong because at the same time he tasted so much half the women of the Greek islands. :/ So idk I simply want to know why you feel in love with him? That would be super interesting for me. But you don't need to answer this if you don't want to. I understand if you don't want or don't have time.

I'm not going to lie I kept trying to answer this and then getting mad lmao

Anyways. "Tasted half the women of the Greek islands" is a gross way to say he slept with two goddesses, one of which he did under hermes' reccomendation

and the other blatantly against his will. The latter of which, by the way, kept him trapped on an island for 7 years, in which every day he would go to the shore and cry for home.

Technically in some version he was also given hecuba after the war? Though she isn't present in the Odyssey so I'm not really counting that

Insert this fun little passage

What a fun passage.

Here's another one where he stayed up for 9 days straight to make sure he got home

You know how he lived many adventures? It's because he kept trying to go home. He did not live his life happily with other women. He stayed one year on Circe's island and that's maybe the closest you can attribute to that, but he had also just lost 11 of his 12 ships and men so I'm inclined to give him a break. 7 years were spent trapped on Ogygia. The other 2 years were spent sailing around trying to get home

He also constantly talks about his son in the iliad, as well as Penelope. Not as much in the Odyssey because you don't talk about your son and wife to strangers

Here are some more fun passages for fun

Very fun.

I'm not really sure why I keep getting asks like this considering I Am a blog primarily that posts about Odysseus, or why so many people think he was prancing around Greece fucking women left and right but okay

#personally i like him cause hes funny and depressed #but also #my eye was twitching this entire ask so i forgot to mention that #wolfy tedtalks #dream about dancing

[littlesparklight]

There's been some amount of academic discussion about Paris' two names - usually in terms of which is earlier and where they come from and what epithets are used with which name. (Most of his epithets "belong" only to Alexander, if you're curious.) But, a small branch of it is "who uses what name, in-story, in the Iliad" ; Ann Suter (this woman, uhh her ideas are pretty crazy so approach with awareness of that), I.F. de Jong and, commenting on especially the latter's article, Michael Lloyd.

I lean more towards Lloyd's assessment that de Jong's premise (that "Paris" is between the Trojans and "Alexander" for the Achaeans as a sort of 'international' name) can't really be supported. But! That doesn't mean you still can't have fun with the split in names and get something in terms of character and worldbuilding out of that!

So, first of all, in the Iliad, "Alexander" is used far more than "Paris". Only Hektor ever uses "Paris" in direct speech, about or to him (we'll get back to Hektor).

Everyone else, Achaean or Trojan, uses Alexander.

Both Suter and de Jong would, in various ways, either ignore this or explain it away as a "this only happens when the Trojans are talking to Achaeans" (Hektor, before the duel), or "what is said is going to be said to Achaeans" (Priam, telling Idaeus what to report to the Achaean commanders). Honestly, that seems overly complicated and not very reasonable to me. Especially in the case of Priam, if Paris was the name he's most used to using, there is no reason for him not to use Paris and then Idaeus simply switches when reporting the speech to the Achaeans. Yes, reported speech/instructions are usually relayed verbatim, but switching a name wouldn't be changing what's actually been said.

And, anyway, coming back to Hektor, who is the one to most consistently use Paris? Also uses Alexander, when thinking to himself, in his own head. (He also uses Paris to Achilles.)

Myth-wise, in various later sources you get the very logical conclusion of "one name was given by his foster father, the other by his royal parents". (Though there's not necessarily any consistency, even with one writer, which name was given by whom.)

Given the way the Iliad prioritises Alexander, I'd go with that Alexander is the name Priam and Hecuba gave their son, even if he was going to be exposed, before giving him away. Given how Alexander is used by basically everyone to address him, this would make good sense, I think. The Achaeans would only know of Alexander, prince of Troy, and that is certainly the name most/all Trojans would use. Paris is then the name given him by his foster father. Hektor using it can be turned into a look into their relationship, because what you see is Hektor using the name of the "outsider" (by a bare technically "not" his brother), to insult his brother, when he's angry. A verbal distance to add to the emotional one, if not one that's complete and sometimes blurs.

(This doesn't take into account post-Iliad sources, where 'Paris' vastly outnumber the uses of 'Alexander'.)

#the iliad #paris of troy #greek myth thoughts

[that-nerd-who-writes-fanfiction]

Hello....If you don't mind, can I ask, what are your top 10 (or top 7) favorite media (can be books/ manga/ anime/movies/tv series)? Why do you love them? Sorry if you've answered this question before......Thanks....

I can’t remember if I’ve done this before but it’s changed again recently. Most of these are gonna be books because I’ve had way too much time sitting around lately so I’ve had enough time to actually enjoy books without destroying my sleep schedule for it.

1. BBC Merlin is my all time favourite, I don’t feel like I need to elaborate, it’s pretty much all I post about on here.

2. Song of Achilles is still my all time favourite book and number 2 behind Merlin. I think I’m nearing 20 rereads total for it by now. It’s never boring and keeps me interested every time. Cannot recommend enough. I’d give anything to be able to read it again for the first time.

3. I’ve been reading quite a few classics recently, I had a lot of free time. I met another Greek mythology nerd so Iliad and Odyssey make my top ten again because they’ve been on my mind a lot more than I care to admit. (I know it’s technically two books but I always read them together)

4. And I finally got around to reading Iron Heart (sequel to Crier’s war) and it’s amazing. One of the best books I’ve read recently. I’m gonna leave it at that or I’ll start ranting but I can’t recommend it enough so definitely go read that if you get a chance.

5. BBC Musketeers is also really good, I started watching that recently. I’m only on episode 6 but it’s great so far. Santiago Cabrera’s hair is fucking gender. Also the show got me researching 17th century weapons and now I know a fair amount about capes so that’s fun. BBC is still shit at historical accuracy, but no surprise there.

6. The Great Gatsby because I’m that kind of nerd and I’ve been mostly rereading recently. Everyone is such an arsehole in that book but it’s so interesting to analyse and annotate. I read it in year 7 and hated it, then again in college and it wasn’t bad but 3rd times a charm I guess. I found it really interesting from an analytical perspective, but I wouldn’t read it for light reading or fun.

7. I’ve been avoiding anything new other than musketeers, just because I haven’t felt like getting to know a new set of characters and a new world. That being said, I rewatched the first season of Good Omens, Crowleys still one of my all time favourite characters and the show is great.

8. I rewatched Stars Align, always a fun one. It’s a great show and the art style is really cool.

9. Seraph of the end because I love vampire stories. The plot is really interesting, I still need to read the manga but the anime is brilliant so I want to read that soon. Also no romance (ignoring shipping) which my aroace self appreciates.

10. The Tempest because my cousin was studying it in school and asked for help so I reread it for her and got a little bit hyper-fixated for a few days, now it’s still just sort of in the back of my mind and I’m a Shakespeare nerd so might as well add it.

Thanks for the ask!

#asks #bbc merlin #the song of achilles #the iliad #the odyssey #iron heart #criers war #bbc musketeers #great gatsby #good omens #stars align #seraph of the end #the tempest #shakespeare #books #i’m bad at tagging

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

I know I'm very late to this compared to everyone here (I'm 30) but I just finished reading the odyssey for the first time and I'm... my heart can't handle it. I already want to read it again. Why did I get to this this late? Anyway, I wanted to ask if you have any recommendations for interesting articles or other books about Odysseus, apart from the Iliad? And Penelope, of course. I just love them. I'm asking you 'cause I saw your posts about Odysseus and Calypso / Circe, and found them very interesting and insightful! Thanks in advance

There's no bad time in your life to read the Odyssey for the first time! I'm so glad you found your way to it and enjoyed it!

In terms of books and articles about the Odyssey, I've been out of the academic world for long enough that I feel like I'm no longer a particularly good source of advice, but I'll toss out a few old favorites:

the film O Brother Where Art Thou - a retelling of the Odyssey set in the Deep South during the Great Depression

the novel the Penelopiad by Margaret Atwood - a feminist retelling of the Odyssey from Penelope's point of view

technically it's more about the Iliad, but Somewhere I Have Never Travelled by Thomas Van Nortwick is a scholarly work that's informed my thinking on Homeric storytelling a lot

And I found some articles on the Odyssey that look fascinating freely accessible (no login needed) on JSTOR! Since some of these are public domain, they may not closely track modern scholarship, but if you're just kinda vibing with the Odyssey right now and are looking for more food for thought on the subject, this ought to get you going in interesting directions.

Rose, Peter W. “Ambivalence and Identity in the Odyssey.” Sons of the Gods, Children of Earth: Ideology and Literary Form in Ancient Greece, Cornell University Press, 1995, pp. 92–140. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7591/j.ctvn1tbcw.6. Accessed 14 May 2023.

Coulter, Cornelia C. “The Happy Otherworld and Fairy Mistress Themes in the Odyssey.” Transactions and Proceedings of the American Philological Association, vol. 56, 1925, pp. 37–53. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/282883. Accessed 14 May 2023.

KAMUF, PEGGY. “Penelope at Work.” Signature Pieces: On the Institution of Authorship, Cornell University Press, 1988, pp. 145–74. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7591/j.ctt207g60p.11. Accessed 14 May 2023.

Bassett, Samuel E. “The Proems of the Iliad and the Odyssey.” The American Journal of Philology, vol. 44, no. 4, 1923, pp. 339–48. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/289255. Accessed 14 May 2023.

Gregory, Andrew. “Circe: An Extract from Homer’s Odyssey (c. 900–800 BCE).” Women in the History of Science: A Sourcebook, edited by Hannah Wills et al., UCL Press, 2023, pp. 23–34. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv2w61bc7.11. Accessed 14 May 2023.

Also, if you liked the Odyssey, I think you'll love Greek tragedy! I recommend starting with Sophocles' Electra, Sophocles' Oedipus the King, Aeschylus' Oresteia, and maybe Euripedes' the Trojan Women.

Thanks for the ask, and happy reading!

[encrucijada]

you’re right you’re right you’re righttttt. Pia your anti Greek myth retelling posts are soooo big brain mwah. Also I just saw your post on the technical little details Miller fucked up and I’m goin feral please tell me there’s more stuff you can point out. Like not just the blatant character assassinations but also those small factual errors that are easy to miss but if you’re well read up on and familiar with the myths you can catch the mistakes (eg if madeline writes x was the first to die in war, but ancient texts actually state that it was y)

i have not braved the iliad chapters of tsoa in like a year. i'd have to do at least a superficial reread of the poem itself to find any problems i might have missed in miller's book as i haven't reread the iliad in like... three years lmao. but from the iliad chapters a technical issue that fester literally until the end is the absence of the funeral games in honour of patroclus... the achaean army liked patroclus. the final conflict of his shade being stuck could not exist

this was maybe the first major incorrect detail i noticed while reading. i cannot believe miller got this wrong because whom thetis' parents are is right there in her classification within the mythology. thetis is a nereid (aka a sea nymph). her parents are nereus and doris. proteus is the shapeshifting man of the sea who, in the odyssey, tells menelaus his friends are dead while his fleet is stranded in egypt.

^ here are the sources

okay this one is a matter of "depends on the sources" but a lot and i mean a lot of the "gods fucking up the lives of mortals" stories come from ovid's metamorphoses... a roman source. a roman source written during the reign of imperator augustus by a guy who didn't like augustus very much and so naturally he wrote about beings in power fucking up the lives of those beneath them. so really my problem with this line is the use of never, because never say never

that's all that comes to mind rn. i would love to say more but i would have to actually reread some of tsoa for that (or reread my annotations) and i always try to make sure what i say is backed by a source so i don't become part of the problem and i'm feeling a bit lazy lmao. but yeah!

#answered #tsoa #anti tsoa

[katerinaaqu]

@prompted-wordsmith

This is for you because your small story was amazing so I want to create one in return! And since you want Helen to speak up more here is a little interaction pre-departure from Troy between Helen and Odysseus because why not!

The city hadn't yet stopped smoking from the night of massacre. Helen feared it never would. The smell of burning wood and asbestos was sticking on her clothes and hair; bitter reminder of the events of the night before. Helen didn't want even to think of the lingering smell of blood; metal and water that she had touched. It was as if everything was red now; hands and heart and bloodshot eyes. She hadn't slept that night or the night after it. She feared she never would again.

She could still feel that this was partially her fault; both the beginning and the end of it. She knew the Horse was a farse; a well-staged plan. She chose not to alert the alarm. She had chosen her side once more. And now women and children and men at Troy were laying down dead or worse. She remembered seeing Andromache being dragged out of the city in chains along with other women. They were to be sold as slaves or given as prices to the kings of the Acheans. The once proud queen was now crying woefully; mourning her husband who was killed. She had been dragged out of her husband's tomb where she went to seek sanctuary. That was the ultimate hubris along with her father-in-law Priam who she heard from a conversation had been slain upon the altar he hoped would grand him his life. She heard it was Neoptolemus, the young man who carried the blood of Achilles in his veins and apparently his rage and temper. Who would have known that a child like that could be so cruel and blasphemous? So full of rage? Helen could not see her infant son in her arms as she was taken away. She didn't even dare to ask. For a brief second Andromache raised her head and her honey eyes stuck within her blue ones. The look was almost accusatory as the tears had given her face reddish lines. Or perhaps it was the self inflicted scratches that she had made in her woe. That second lasted longer than it should be before the queen was dragged away.

"That could have been me..." she thought

However her position was not much different. As she was standing at the peer, she was always guarded by a soldier; obviously her husband wanted both to protect her but also obviously he didn't trust her. Helen couldn't say she blamed him but it still hurt. She was seeing Menelaus talking to Odysseus, sorting out the details. Helen watched her husband and her former fiance in wonder. Indeed how strange fate was! How different the two men were! She could tell Menelaus's auburn hair from kilometers away as they were held together by a band around his head. He was well built and strong, seemed dressed in sunlight. Odysseus next to him seemed the opposite. He wasn't tall. He was barely average, a few decent inches shorter than her husband and a good head shorter than her brother-in-law however he seemed wider in shoulder and his chest resembled a wall dressed in a coat of dark curly hair. His head was adorned with black hair that seemed golden under the setting sun: bushy and curly like a ram held together by various little bands that held his curls tamed under his leather headband. His beard was equally bushy and shaggy even if he had obviously tried to make himself more presentable from the night before. His onyx eyes were bottomless holes. The man seemed tired; prematurely aged that day. Helen knew that he had a similar burden to bare with her. How strange indeed, she thought. The man seemed like coming from the night. And yet he seemed darker now; his shoulders seemed heavier than before.

"Take her home safely"

Odysseus's voice drew her out of her daydream. His voice was hoarse and tired. He seemed aged before his years. Helen remembered again the flamboyant young man that was supposed to court her. Sure his eyes filled with premature wisdom and intelligence gave him an aura of age but she could remember his laughter and smile seemed those of a teenager as if trying to persuade people of his actual age. Now that teen was gone. He was a man now; long past that first youth; a Sacker of Cities.

"Otherwise all this would have been for nothing!"

The timbre in his voice; the seer accusation, hurt her much more than anything besides her husband's distrust. No, at least Odysseus...the wise and prudent Odysseus should understand. Menelaus nodded to his loyal friend and shot her with yet another look. Helen couldn't decide if it was angry or closer to sad. As he walked away she turned again to look at Odysseus. The man barely saw her with the corner of his eye but spoke nothing. Helen couldn't bare the silence any longer.

"Odysseus..." she finally spoke, "Why? How can you be so cruel?"

"Cruel?" His voice was full of disbelief, of anger that made his chest rise like the tide

He turned to her walking like a lion ready to pounce. Helen stood her ground though. She stuck her ocean blue eyes deeply within his black ones.

"Cruel?" He repeated, "I've lost my son's first 10 years because of this war!"

"This war wasn't my choice!" Helen felt the need to defend herself against him.

"It commensed because of you!" The accusation was finally spoken outloud, "Menelaus started this because of you!"

"I didn't know he-..."

"YES YOU DID!" Odysseus finally bellowed making her take a step back, "yes you did...you just didn't think!"

He turned her back at her. He was about to leave but he didn't seem done yet.

"The blood of many brave Acheans is on your hands..."

That was way too much. Odysseus should know better than hurt her this way! This was unfair even if spoken through pain and anger. Bravely Helen held back the tears that burnt her eyes. He wouldn't see her weep!

"If I told you..." she began with the best voice she could master, "...that gods play games with us all the time...that they cloud our judgment... Would you believe me?"

Odysseus looked over his shoulder but spoke nothing.

"You of all people should understand" Helen whispered

"What does it matter what I'd believe?"

"It matters to me!" Helen replied firmly. "Please, Odysseus...at least you...at least you should believe me..."

Odysseus seemed ready to reply but the last minute he stopped himself. He chose silence; cruel and cold silence. He began walking away. Two angry tears ran down her white, rosy cheeks. No she couldn't leave it this way!

"ODYSSEUS!" She yelled after him, "you're a hypocrite!"

That stopped him to his tracks as he turned around.

"What?" He asked almost scandalized

Helen was shivering from top to bottom and her knuckles turned white from clenching them too hard.

"Do you think you're any better, Sacker of cities?!" The last one was spat like an insult like a curse, "do you think your hands are clean? You say that the war commensed because of me! That so many Greeks died because of me! Then what about you, Odysseus? What about all the Trojans killed in the city in that bloodbath?! What about all these women and children that are now piled up to be burnt or eaten by dogs and vultures? Who is to answer for THOSE Odysseus?"

Odysseus of Ithaca was frozen in place, shaking in anger but so was she. And she wouldn't be stopped now. She was Helen of Sparta, Helen of Troy, Helen the daughter of Zeus!

"It was your plan, your scheme that got the Greeks inside the holy city of Troy! It was your idea that gave them the way to sack it!"

Odysseus, the eloquent man seemed now unable to respond. He seemed stripped out of his furious anger although some of it was burning inside. Instead he managed to utter

"This massacre wasn't my choice..."

A sound between humorless and mocking laughter and cry came out of her mouth.

"Oh so you tell me you didn't know? You didn't know that the Greeks who were away from their homes, wives and children wouldn't unleash all their piled hatred? Didn't you know they would burn the city that kept them away from them to the ground so it wouldn't rise again?"

He didn't respond. Helen knew he couldn't.

"You say the blood of the Greeks is on my hands. Then the blood of Trojans is on yours!"

Odysseus seemed to have trouble breathing. She had hurt him and she knew it. Perhaps she had simply voiced everything he had in his mind all those days. She could remember how tenderly he spoke of his wife and son. Her husband used to say he identified himself as father of Telemachus not son of Laërtes. Women and children...his son and wife... He seemed ready to either lash at her or leave. However as always The Man of Many Ways sighed and did the unexpected; he spoke again.

"It doesn't matter whether I believe you or not, you know. What it matters is if he does"

Helen took a glance towards Menelaus from a distance. He was preparing the ship. She sighed and returned her gaze towards the man they called "equal to gods".

"But do you?"

"Yes" he finally admitted, "yes I believe you"

Helen sighed in relief. It was her thanking to him

"There is fate between us, Helen..." Odysseus said hoarsely.

Helen didn't need to see his face behind his wide back to read his expression.

"Yes" she replied, "you could have been my husband"

"I am glad that I'm not"

That husky whisper made her look up in wonder. She didn't expect that answer.

"You don't deserve me" the son of Laërtes said, "and I don't deserve you"

He barely looked at her again over his large shoulder.

"I see now why my cousin loved you" whispered she

"And I see why he loved you." Replied Odysseus, "why he started a war for you. Not for his pride; for you. You were indeed worth it..."

He looked at her again for the first time for a while.

"You and I have both blood on our hands" he said grimly, "you, the starter of war, hold the blood of many brave Acheans upon you...while I, the one who ended it, the Sacker of Cities, will have to live for the rest of my life carrying the deaths of Trojans upon me... Women and children..."

He covered his face with his large hand and turned around. He was sobbing.

"Women and children..." he whispered again, "Penelope...my sweet Telemachus...children... infants no older than he was..."

Helen was afraid to ask. She didn't want to know. She had met enough horror for a lifetime. She wanted to move on. She wanted to forget.

"Get home safely, Odysseus" she wished to him, "Husband to Penelope...father to Telemachus. I hope you will get what you wished for..."

"You too, Helen, kissed by the sun like golden Aphrodite...daughter of Zeus. Farewell Queen of Sparta..."

He walked away. Helen heard his voice yelling orders to his men like the expert sailor he was. Helen sighed and smiled so slightly. The title he used...was addressed to her. Odysseus had recognized her admitted her but also signaled her, her fate. She knew now she had a second chance to rectify everything; first for herself and next for everyone else.

The journey had come to an end. A new one was about to begin.

Okay guys I am so sorry I have no idea why or how but yeah...this... I hope you liked it.

#greek mythology #odysseus #the odyssey #greek myth #odyssey #iliad fanfic #homer's iliad #post iliad technically? #helen of troy #helen #helen of sparta #helen and odysseus #him and helen are working through it #the odyssey 1997 #odysseus the master mariner #odysseus of ithaca

[baejax-the-great]

For the never have i ever game: have you written a fix-it fic? Or a crossover between fandoms?

If you squint very hard, Sunset could be considered a fix-it fic. Sure, everything in the Iliad happened and then some, but now Achilles can freeze to death in Chicago, too.

I'm not sure if my rewrite of the first time between Garrus and Shepard is technically a fix-it, but it kind of feels like one. What if sex in Mass Effect was fun instead of just sad? Lmao.

I shudder to think of The Depth of Fear as a fix-it fic, but it is about rescuing the Warden from being left in the Fade so I guess on a technicality it gets that title. It is also, to an extent, a story that fixes the relationship between Bethany and Hawke after everything that happened. i mean it breaks it worse first, but yeah.

As for crossovers, the closest thing I have is Take a Chant on Me, which is the DA2 crew 20 years after that whole Kirkwall thing living out the events of Mamma Mia! However, I learned after posting this that setting one set of characters in a different universe does not qualify as a crossover. What makes it a crossover is that the younger generation in this fic consists the Mass Effect Crew.

#take a chant on me is still one of my faves #like god is it silly #man did I jam as many abba lyrics into that fic as I could

[nonexistentbooks]

random rec list :)

These are various things that I have enjoyed a lot over the years. Check under the cut for more thorough notes/warnings, because some of these are really built for specific audiences. Linked to book titles is the storygraph page, where you can also find TWs. Link to poetry are the poems themselves.

books

House of Leaves, Mark Z. Danielewski

Piranesi, Susanna Clarke

The Trial, Franz Kafka. (I don't have access to my copy anymore, so I don't know the translator of my edition, unfortunately)

The Brothers Karamazov, Fyodor Dostoevsky. I have read both the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation and the David McDuff translation. Don't have a preference between the two, I think.

An Iliad, Lisa Peterson and Denis O'Hare.

Beloved, Toni Morrison

poetry

If You Call a Wolf a Wolf, Kaveh Akbar

Hanif Abdurraqib's writing, particularly They Can't Kill Us Until They Kill Us and A Little Devil in America.

"Miss You. Would like to take a walk with you." Gabrielle Calvocoressi

"I Didn't Apologize to the Well," Mahmoud Darwish, tr. Fady Joudah

"Angels," Russell Edson

"On the Death of Friends in Childhood," Donald Justice

"Chou Nu Er: Composed on Wall at Mount Bo on Way," 辛弃疾 Xin Qiji, tr. unknown.

Poem 66 in Hidden Music, Rumi, tr. Maryam Mafi and Azima Melita Kolin.

manga/comics/etc.

The following works by Nihei Tsutomu: BLAME!, NOiSE, Abara, Biomega, tr. include: Melissa Tanaka, Stephen Paul, Sheldon Drzka, John Werry.

Mushishi, Urushibara Yuki, tr. William Flanagan

Witch Hat Atelier, Shirahama Kamome, tr. Stephen Kohler

Uzumaki, Ito Junji, tr. Yuji Oniki

Mob Psycho 100, ONE, tr. Kumar Sivasubramanian (might not be the only translator, but I'm not looking through all the volumes)

shows/movies + one podcast:

Revolutionary Girl Utena, dir. Ikuhara Kunihiko

Angel's Egg, dir. Oshii Mamoru (in collaboration with Amano Yoshitaka)

Cowboy Bebop, dir. Watanabe Shinichiro

A Writer's Odyssey, dir. Lu Yang

Wolf 359, produced by Kinda Evil Genius Productions, LLC

notes on book selections: For HoL, TBK, and Beloved, I'd recommend checking out the trigger warnings. None of these books are especially light, and definitely with HoL, Piranesi and a bit with The Trial as well, you don't know a lot going on. So you have to be okay with putting in the effort to understand these stories and going along with the ride. The Trial was technically unfinished, so after a point, it's the chapters we have from Kafka and in kind of out of order.

notes on poetry: I know some people may not like Hanif Abdurraqib's style, but I personally adore it. I have not read all of his works either, but he is a very solid poet and writer for me.

notes on manga and such: The thing you have to understand about Nihei's works (those that are listed) is that there aren't clear answers for a lot. Especially BLAME!, where there's very minimal dialogue. You won't understand everything on the first on the first read for BLAME! and that's good! NOiSE also doesn't answer a lot and Abara, for some, may seem like it ends on a cliffhanger. Biomega is the iffiest one here because the ending is really rushed. There was clearly meant to be more, but there just wasn't the space to take care of it before it had to end. In all his works listed, there is a lot of violence. WHA is in progress and I haven't caught up in ages, but it's a really solid story so far. Uzumaki is horror, so check out the warnings for that before going into it, if needed. MP100 is also pretty solid. Not without some faults, of course, but I greatly enjoy it and also have a fond spot for the REIGEN spinoff in my heart.

notes on shows and the rest: Ok. So. RGU. really look at the tws for this. The more comprehensive post I can't find, but this is a good summary. Definitely would not recommend it to everyone and there are aspects I am not a fan of (to say the least) but it is a very impactful story and means a lot. Angel's Egg is also not for everyone, but more so because it's a very silent movie and you will not get answers. It's a movie where you craft your own meaning and enjoy the experience. It can also feel very slow. Cowboy Bebop my beloved. That is all I will say. It can also feel slow to some people, but the ending. omg. A Writer's Odyssey may not be the most put together narrative-wise BUT I watched it when sick and fatigued out of my mind, so it takes a place here for being a movie I still remember pretty well. A father will do anything to find his daughter again, even if it means killing this random guy who only seems to be a novelist... except, isn't it strange how his story seems to impact reality as well? Wolf 359 is a podcast but MY GOD is it good. Listen to it. please.

#recs: #poetry #books

[mask131]

Fantasy read-list: A-1.5

I thought I had concluded the whole “A” part of my big fantasy read-list last spring... 

... BUT FATE WOULD HAVE IT OTHERWISE! In between then and now I found a collection of articles covering the evolution and chronology of fantasy literature, and they added a lot more of titles and informations that I think I will add to my “Fantasy read-list”. 

My original “A-1″ post dealt with works of fiction and poetry that, beyond being masterpieces of the Greco-Roman literature, were the key basis of Greco-Roman mythology as we know it today, and massive inspirations for the later fantasy genre. Here, I will use an article written by Fabien Clavel asking the question “Is there an Antique fantasy?” to add some names to this list.

Not the names of works written in Ancient Greece or Ancient Rome however. No, when it comes to the great classics from “before Christ”, the same names are dropped - Hesiod’s Theogony, Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, Virgil’s Aeneid, Ovid’s Metamorphoses... The only antique work Fabien Clavel mentions that I did not mention was Lucan’s Pharsalia. Also called “On the Civil War” it is, as the name says, an epic poem retelling the actual civil war that opposed Julius Caesar and Pompey the Great. Why would a historical work fit into the world of fantasy you ask? Because this epic retelling is pretty-fantasy likes, with several omens and oracles of the gods (including trees that start bleeding like humans), and even scenes of necromancy where the ghosts of the dead answer the protagonists’ questions. 

Fabien Clavel’s article, however, focuses much more on the modern fantasy inspired by the Greek and Roman myths, that he classifies into four categories.

1) The retellings. Works of fantasy that retell classic legends or well-known myth of Greco-Roman antiquity. You find in this category the works of the fantasy author David Gemmel, be it his Troy trilogy (retelling of the Trojan war) or his Lion of Macedon trilogy (a more fantastical version of Alexander the Great’s life). You have Gene Wolf’s Soldier of the Mist, about the titular soldier, cursed with both retrograde and anterograde amnesia, and forced to find his way home through mythical Ancient Greece. There is C.S. Lewis’ last novel, Till we have faces, his retelling of the Cupid and Psyche myth from The Golden Ass. And in French literature, you have Maurice Druon’s Les Mémoires de Zeus, an autobiography of Zeus himself. 

2) The “feminist” works - which technically are a sub-division of the “retellings”, since they are retellings of ancient legends and tales, but with the twist that the focus is placed on female characters, often side-lined or pushed away from Greco-Roman narratives. In this category you will find Margaret Atwood’s The Penelopiad (the Odyssey through Penelope’s eyes), Maron Zimmer Bradley’s The Firebrand (the Trojan War as told by Cassandra), Ursula LeGuin’s Lavinia (an exploration of the titular character, from the Aeneid). To get out of the  English literature, you will also have the work of the Hungarian writer Magda Szabo, The Moment, or the Creusiad, another Aeneid retelling focusing on the character of Creusa. 

3) The “appropriation” works. No, this is not used in a negative way but a neutral one. In this category, Clavel places all the works that are not a precise retelling of a given myth or legend, but rather a fantasy story reusing the elements, tropes, characters and settings of Greek or Roman mythology. You have Thomas Burnett Swann’s Trilogy of the Minotaur, Guy Gavriel Kay’s Sarantine Mosaic series - and in French literature you have Rachel Tanner’s Le Cycle de Mithra, an uchrony imagining what the world would look like if Mithraism had become the official religion of the Roman Empire instead of Christianity. 

4) The “interaction” tales - aka, fantasy works that take elements of Greek mythology and have them be confronted by elements not belonging to Greek mythology. For example, there is the Merlin Codex series by Robert Holdstock, describing how Merlin the Enchanter resurrects Jason and the Argonauts in the Arthurian world. There is also in France Johan Heliot’s Reconquérants, an uchrony fantasy about a group of lost Roman colonizers who built a second Roman Empire in Northern America, and fifteen centuries later try to return to the “old world” they left behind only to find it overrun with mythical creatures. Finally, Clavel adds the Percy Jackson series, the new best-selling series of teenage fantasy fiction/urban fantasy a la “Harry Potter”, describing the adventures of an American teenage boy discovering the Greek gods moved to America, that he is the son of Poseidon, and that monsters of Greek mythology are trying to kill him. 

Clavel concludes his article by saying how hard it is to pinpoint exactly where the influence of Greek mythology stops in the fantasy world, since elements of Greek legends are omnipresent and overused in the fantasy genre. To illustrate this he mentions the centaurs, that appeared in four of the classic works of fantasy for children that are however VERY different from each other: Harry Potter, the Narnia Chronicles, the Artemis Fowl series, and The Neverending Story. 

As a personal note I will add to this list the recent success of Madeline Miller’s Greek mythology retellings, which I have seen regularly pop up in book shops and that some of my friends fell in love with (I never read them though) - be it her Song of Achilles (the life of Achilles told through the eyes of Patroclus) or her Circe (a novel about the life of the famous Greek witch). 

#fantasy read-list #fantasy reading list #fantasy #book list #greek mythology #roman mythology #greek mythology retellings #greek myth retellings #aeneid #trojan war #ancient roman literature

[thebreakfastgenie]

Asking in good faith and curiousity — is something not considered fanfiction if what it is based on is in public domain? Like the Song of Achilles isn’t fanfiction since it’s based on the Iliad?

The definition is a little loose, but typically if you can publish something and profit from it because the source material is public domain, it is not considered fanfiction. It may not be technically incorrect to refer it that way, but it's not what is generally meant or implied by "fanfiction." Song of Achilles is not generally considered fanfiction as far as I know. There are many books based on mythology and they are not considered fanfiction.

There are other gray areas, too, such as expanded universes for large franchises. Those novels are authorized by the holders of the IP, so legally they're a different beast, but functionally the content isn't different from fanfiction. In the 70s, a couple of collections of Star Trek stories were published that were fanfiction, written by fan authors, but published by the owners of the IP.

In general I find it easiest and most functional to reserve the word fanfiction for unauthorized, self-published stories based on existing intellectual property. So if Wicked had been uploaded to AO3 instead of published as a book, I would call it fanfiction. This does get a little messy with source material like The Wizard of Oz or Pride and Prejudice or Shakespeare, and in many cases there exists both published "fanfiction" and fanfiction on AO3 or other sites. But traditionally published books go through an editorial process that fanfiction does not so I think it's worth making the distinction.

Additionally, many of these older public domain works have well-known adaptations that are not yet in the public domain. "Fanfiction" that is traditionally published and sold cannot include details from these adaptations. To take Wicked as an example, the shoes in Wicked are not ruby slippers. They could not be, because the ruby slippers first appeared i the 1939 movie, which is not yet in the public domain. Pride and Prejudice fanfiction that includes details specific to the 2005 film can be on AO3 but cannot be published and sold. I have not read Song of Achilles, but it would not be able to use specific details from the movie Troy for example (although I doubt the author would want to) but a fic posted on AO3 could.

I don't have a problem referring to these thing as fanfiction in a colloquial sense, but in more serious conversations I prefer to make the distinction.

so tl;dr I would not consider Song of Achilles fanfiction because the Iliad is public domain.

[castielmacleod]

Incomplete list of spn fics that live in my head

A Game of God. Magnum opus character study/rewrite of the god!Cas arc in the form of an Iliad-esque epic tragedy and political drama detailing Cas’ rise to power and fall from grace through the post-apocalyptic angel civil war, all from Cas’ pov. Featuring angel siblinghood, black trench coat Cas, cosmic battles for dominion over heaven, a thematic exploration of what it truly means to love and be loved, and most importantly: sincere, earnest, non-toxic Crowstiel :’)

Rowena MacLeod Versus the Forces of Love. Character study slash dark comedy chronicling major events from all three centuries of Rowena’s life, from sleepy medieval Scottish peasantry to standing as the most powerful witch of all time, and her journey through closing herself off to all forms of love and connection in order to pursue power before eventually, slowly, opening up again. Canon divergent in her reunion with Crowley and relationships with the other characters.

The Merry Misadventures of Death and the Devil. Gen fic about my concept of Billie’s friendship with Crowley through the years, from her reaping of Fergus MacLeod’s soul in the 18th century all the way up to the days just before Crowley’s suicide, and all the things they got up to in between. Split pov between the two of them.

The Apocalypse According to Kevin Tran. AU where Kevin is the first prophet instead of Chuck, and the Supernatural stories are posted on his Wattpad account. Follows Kevin’s efforts to stop the world from ending, as well as a budding friendship with his protector, the archangel Raphael. Also features Tran family bonding and a more developed concept of what it means to be a prophet and the struggles that come with the constant visions and voices and such.

Claire Novak Has Some Regrets. My angel hunter Claire AU where she has powers like Lily Sunder. She travels around saving people who have been possessed by angels and hunts Cas all through the events of canon. Explores the after-effects of angel possession, and plays with Claire’s complicated relationship with Cas by complicating it EVEN further. Possible Claire/Patience?

So Tell Me (Where To Put My Love). Thee Caswena bearding fic, another character study set indistinctly after Funeralia. Closeted gay Castiel is exhausted with Dean constantly trying to set him up on dates with women but is too terrified to come out, so Rowena offers to be his (very extravagant) beard. Hilarity ensues, Winchesters are made uncomfortable, and Cas and Rowena forge a strong if unlikely friendship while learning a lot about life, love, and self-worth along the way. Features shared grief over Crowley (with past Crowstiel), discussion of Dean’s abuse toward Cas, and exploration of both Cas and Rowena’s issues.

Gaol Ise Gaol I. Gen MacLeod character study, split povs. Rowena rescues Crowley from the Empty and things get awkward fast. Turns out this romanticised idea of a son in Rowena’s head, who she thought she was ready to love, doesn’t look quite the same when he’s standing in front of her again. And turns out the death Crowley brought so willingly upon himself, that he swore was the only solution to his pathetic life, might not have been what he wanted after all. Deals with Crowley and Rowena’s broken relationship and the mental effects of surviving a suicide attempt (technically) amongst other things.

Calamity Song. AU where Max and Alicia Banes replace Dean and Sam respectively, picking up in the equivalent of season 4/5 ish. Cas saves Max from hell, and the three of them work to avert the apocalypse. Basically exploring the base concepts of Team Free Will and D*stiel but making them actually good and real and meaningful and wholesome instead of *gestures to canon* whatever the fuck that’s supposed to be. Other major characters include Tasha Banes (roughly analogous to Bobby), Crowley, Billie (as Death), Ruby, Kevin (replacing Chuck), Eileen, and Cas’ garrison. Multiple povs plus Alicia/Eileen and Cas/Max.

Devil Is Fine. AU dramedy that follows dogged newspaper reporter Cassie Robinson as she investigates various strange and supernatural happenings and exorcises a few demons along the way—saving people, helping things. Includes cameos and run-ins from a whole bunch of our favourite side characters. Overarching plot still in development, but endgame Cassie/Billie.

It Gets Better. Serious short expanding on Cas’ offscreen time in the bunker in early s11 and examining the effects that Dean’s abuse and the enforced violent hunter lifestyle has on him. Ties into the panic attack he has to flashbacks of Dean beating him when trying to leave the bunker that one time. Canon divergent ending where he gets the hell out or so help me.

Space Oddity. Alone in the bunker, Crowley bandages his hand and makes a decision. Kind of dark due to themes of suicide but I need to put what the s12 finale makes me feel into words or I’ll explode.

#Just needed to dump all these somewhere #I want to write all of them so badly 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 #Tw suicide mention #Tw abuse mention #My posts

[littlesparklight]

Technically speaking Persephone's suitors are sons of the current king for them to be worthy to propose to her. It's odd though that I can only imagine Apollo being earnest, since Ares has Aphrodite,  and Hermes is a free spirit. Do you have any thoughts about Persephone's relationship with the three of them, reason enough for them to consider marriage?

Hmm, I don't think any of them need to really have a relationship of any sort of with her to consider marriage - it's not like Hades had any prior to the abduction.

But, for Ares for example... if he is interested in her for herself (and we should allow that he is), there is ALSO the possibility of his marriage lending some distraction to his relationship with Aphrodite. Like this: if we go with how the Iliad/Odyssey structure things, what we have is that at some point prior to the last year of the war, Hephaistos as married Charis/Aglaia - so at some point earlier than that the golden net incident that Demodokos sings of has happened, with Hephaistos afterwards divorcing Aphrodite. If we also use the snippet of myth from The Pelops Incident, that Demeter was the only one who took a bite out of the son stew because she was distraught over Persephone being kidnapped, then we also have a point at when Persephone becomes unavailable for anyone else to marry. (This doesn't quite match with, say, the Hymn to Demeter since she's withdrawn from all the gods during that whole debacle until Persephone comes back up so the cycle starts. I suppose one can say it's also the first winter Persephone is down in the Underworld, which, even if they each know Persephone IS coming back up come spring, would surely be upsetting anyway.)

Presumably there might be a space of time before Persephone's marriage where Ares and Aphrodite haven't yet been found out, and a marriage to someone else might offer a further smokescreen to "they're totally not fucking" for our erstwhile lovers. And, for Persephone and Ares specifically, maybe Ares is picking up on the traces in Persephone that will have her as a major force in the Underworld later, the dread queen of the house, and so is attracted to this? He might in that way even be more serious about it than either Hermes or Apollo.

I'd honestly say Hermes and Apollo are just as much free spirits as each other (as much as it's fun to attach Apollo to all the Muses, he's not... actually married to any one of them, even less ALL of them; Cyrene he made a nymph (so she might or might not die at some point), and is potentially a more steady companion, but she's also, like, definitely not considered an official consort like other married couples are, and if we allow Hyacinthus his post-mortem apotheosis, he still can't be an "official" consort as such). Presumably both Hermes and Apollo are for one reason or another - maybe even just shallow ones, as that she's beautiful - attracted to her and, even if they're not ardently in love with her, she is a good match, and they are good potential husbands if only in position alone (Apollo probably more than Hermes). Why not consider it? Apollo might not want to choose a single Muse, Hebe is yet too young, Eileithyia maybe simply out of the running like Athena and Artemis, etc and so on.

But one could wonder if either of them were honestly serious about any suit of Persephone, because in the end they are, honestly, "quintessential" young, unmarried men (setting aside that Hermes can be/was presented as older, with a beard sometimes, much like Dionysos was).

#greek myth thoughts #asks