#it's that i've seen an all to common trend in this fandom where people ask other people for their opinion | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

queerly-autistic · 2 months

Text

I've seen some concern about the fact that the BBC has double-billed the last four episodes of Our Flag Means Death and bumped it up later in the schedule - concerns that this means it's not doing well for the BBC - and so I'd just like to allay some of those fears, if possible? To start with, it's important to recognise that the BBC does this all the time. I was in EastEnders fandom for many years, and nonsense schedule changes were a regular annoyance. When I shared OFMD's schedule change with my little group of friends from that fandom, everyone rolled their eyes and went 'oh yeah, typical BBC shenanigans'. As an example: the BBC was really pushing EastEnders last year, they'd been hard-marketing towards the big iconic Christmas episode since February, and then, around comes Christmas, and the BBC inexplicably sticks it on at 10pm (when it's usually broadcast at 7.30pm).

So this isn't unusual. This is extremely common. There's often very little rhyme or reason to the BBC live broadcast scheduling. To try and accurately read between the lines of this is like trying to analyse the written output of a cat walking across a keyboard.

But another big thing to remember is that Our Flag Means Death is a streaming show. The BBC dropped all of the episodes in one go because they know that it's the streaming audience where the show is successful. It's the same with What We Do In The Shadows - we know that the show does well for them, because they keep renewing their contract to show it, but because it does well specifically with a streaming audience the live episode broadcasts are perpetually bumped to a weird time (sometimes one in the morning!!).

The BBC is under contract to do a live broadcast of these shows, but that's not where the audience is. And that's why the episodes get shuffled around or bumped to a late timeslot or double-billed together. Them not necessarily getting spectacular overnight live broadcast ratings is not a big barrier to potential pick-up - streaming numbers is the important metric. And, just yesterday, the BBC dropped a card for the show over the credits of House of Games, a very popular (and mainstream!) afternoon gameshow, asking people to go stream it on iPlayer. if you haven't seen it, I managed to screen-record and post it on Twitter here (subtitles included): https://x.com/QueerlyAutistic/status/1762913455051325888?s=20. This is a really, really good ad to get - a very mainstream slot that potentially brings attention to the show from new audience demographics. The fact that they put an ad-read for the show in this particular slot is more indicative to me of the fact that the show is doing well for the BBC than any predictable shenanigans around live broadcast times. They advertised the 'niche' queer pirate comedy to a very mainstream middle-of-the-day audience! That's not nothing! And the fact that they were specifically advertising it as being on iPlayer - not the live broadcast - indicates to me that that's where it's doing well: that's where they know their audience is, and they don't care about the live broadcast, because the streams are where it's at. The live broadcast is probably just a contractual obligation at this point.

Our Flag Means Death is still regularly listed under 'trending' on the iPlayer website, and the Parrot Analytics for the show in the UK are excellent. And that's what we want. That's what we need to convince streamers. Remember: the YouGov survey about the show specifically asked questions about it in the context of streaming services. Overnight figures are lovely to have, too (so keep tuning in!) but this is a show made to stream. It was all dropped on iPlayer first for a reason; they're specifically pushing it on iPlayer for a reason. And, at the end of the day, it's streamers we're currently trying to convince to pick up the show, not broadcast television networks.

So, don't read too much into it. We're still doing good, UK crew!

#ofmd #our flag means death #our flag bbc #save ofmd #save our flag means death #renew ofmd #renew our flag means death #adopt our crew #erin waffles

150 notes · View notes

olderthannetfic · 11 months

Note

Ok, I've seen someone mention it, so now I just have to ask: why is it that, when there's an m/m ship with a POC and a white character, the POC one has to be a bottom because otherwise the writer and whoever enjoyed the fic is racist?

I've seen it happen in multiple fandoms, and they all bring out shit like "imperialist culture" and other vague, rambling, explanations written by social media activists who spent too much time online, which are really not fucking answers, are they?

So, from someone who has spent most of their life in fandoms in which the main m/m ships were made by two white men (think BBC Merlin, Kingsman, etc), could someone with more expertise give me a better view of this part of fandom wank?

Well... you have to think about what it means to be the "bottom" in a fanfic. I mean the broad trends across fandoms.

If you've been in plenty of m/m fandoms, you can't tell me you haven't seen it:

The bottom (in a variety of senses) is the one the fic cares more about. Their feelings are the ones that need to be catered to. Their needs drive the plot. In the worst-written fic, the top is little more than a walking dildo and support prop.

Sure, it's not every fic, but it's reasonably common.

In a ship with two white guys, one of whom is a buff jock and one of whom is a willowy nerd, the willowy nerd will generally be Fandom's Favorite. If you happen to like the buff jock better, it can be kind of irritating to see that 99% of the fic doesn't really care about his feelings and assumes the reader is vastly more invested in the other dude. You're like "It's my pairing... but somehow not..."

It can make a person feel alone and unseen.

Now multiply that annoyance with identity stuff that makes it feel more actively hurtful and meaningful.

People phrase it as being about topping and bottoming, often because it's easy to browbeat people over writing a racist stereotype of a black guy with a big dick (never mind that this stereotype is pretty specific and the characters may not actually be of identities where it applies or where the fic writer is likely to apply it). But what they frequently are really getting at is:

I want my fave to be fandom's.

82 notes · View notes

pianostarinwonderland · 1 year

Text

Azul's Vulnerability

Happy birthday to me, and as a way to celebrate this, I'm going to be talking about my biggest gripes on how people view Azul in general 🤩🤩🤩 ok I'm not gonna attack anyone but I do want to speak about something that has been on my mind for a while

Having exposed myself to a lot of Azul content, I've seen a very common trend in the fandom when it comes to how people write about him. Much of the written content I see always has something to do with Azul being a so-called crybaby, particularly in x reader fics and headcanons. Reader would comfort Azul as he's crying, and they'd wipe his tears away while assuaging his insecurities. This also influences the NSFW content that Azul has as well. Reader would be the one to top Azul, and they would be the one in control in the bedroom.

I want to preface first that this is all valid. Write whatever you want. I don't have the right to stop any of you from writing Azul like this. NSFW especially is something that's really valid because a lot of the times, females want to experience having agency in the bedroom (let's not deny it, a majority of x readers are fem readers). In fact, fics and hcs where readers can comfort Azul stem from a desire to be the person to give him the comfort that Twisted Wonderland never gave him. We all want to be that person whom Azul can feel vulnerable to. We want to comfort him and to be close to him, and this is the best way we can do that.

But with that in mind, those fics and hcs also reflect the way people see Azul. People tend to write him as that crybaby. Whenever people talk about Azul, that's the one trait that they tend to attribute to him. I've heard people say it as an insult to him or to make fun of him as well. I'd even say that in the NSFW space, people choose to bottom Azul for that reason. And as someone who loves Azul, I really want people to see that Azul is more than just "a crybaby".

In fact, I would argue that the Azul we know now is not a crybaby. After his overblot, when everyone compliments his notes, Jade and Floyd comment on how Azul looked like he was about to cry. But pay attention to the way that they comment on it:

Floyd: What now? Azul, are you getting a little misty eyed? Jade: My my, have you gone back to being the ink-spitting crybaby? [shel_bb book 3 chapter 35]

The kind of wording in Jade's comment implies that Azul hasn't cried in a while. If he still cried often, Jade would have said something along the lines of "are you going to cry again".

And besides, if one is ashamed of crying, there would be a resolve built to stop themselves from crying. Personally speaking, I have a hard time crying unless something big happens because I had family either telling me to stop crying or laugh at me for crying over something trivial. Azul had been made fun of for the way he cries as a child—that has to have some traumatic impact on him, and it would make him hate crying and tell himself to never cry again. People who can cry easily are those who don't think it's a bad thing to cry.

There's this one anon ask that I will never forget that is related to this topic. It was one that a friend received, and it was a hc request to write Azul and Vil "being their vulnerable selves". As in, they explicitly said that the kind of confidence they exude is all a facade to hide the real emotional vulnerability underneath them, thereby saying that their vulnerable insecure selves are the real Azul and Vil and their confidence is faked.

A Vil essay can be made another day and probably by another person, but for now, we focus on Azul.

First of all, this will never be forgotten from memory because it shocks me that someone thinks Azul's confidence is wholly faked just to hide his insecurities. Now I'm not saying there's no merit to it nor that it's totally wrong. It's true that Azul's charm feels plastic. It's true that Azul does have a strong front that hides a painful past. But it doesn't mean that the Azul now who makes deals, runs a restaurant, and achieves high grades is not the real Azul.

What I want people (and most especially Azul himself but that's another post entirely) to realize is that he's grown to be so much more than the little octopus who used to be bullied and made fun of by other merfolk. The charisma and confidence he has is real. He worked hard to develop his social skills, and that hard work cannot be faked. I think if anything, the part that would feel fake is the part where he chooses to be Azul the businessman and not Azul as in Azul.

And Azul as in Azul is not just his insecurities. It's Azul with his wit and his strategical mindset. It's Azul with his joking remarks and his anger. Chapter 6 and Glorious Masquerade show Azul's real self the most in the game. When he shows his enthusiasm over City of Flowers' food culture in GloMas. When he teases Riddle during the part where the OB boys were playing video games after their experiments in ch6. When Azul roasts Deuce in response to a comment Deuce made about financier cake matching Azul in GloMas. When Azul gets mad at Riddle because he disagreed with his way of doing things in the tower chapters of ch6. There's just so much to Azul.

And lastly, I want to address the idea of Azul's vulnerability. Loads of times, when we think about vulnerability, we think about the sides we wish to not show to people, but we tend to associate those with insecurities and tears. Maybe it's just me, but Azul's vulnerabilities don't always have to manifest in the form of tears. Look at how he acts in narrating his flashback in 3-34 and in the way he reacted when Riddle in chapter 6 says that he can never be top 1 in their year because Azul runs his restaurant too. He's not bursting to tears as he's face to face with the insecurities—he's angry. He's angry about the circumstances he was placed in, angry at the people who hurt him. He's angry at Riddle for essentially saying everything he does was a waste.

It's also important to remember that to the general public, Azul keeps a certain image of himself. Capable of helping. Unable to be stepped on. So in a sense, anything that contradicts his image or even has the potential to harm it is in some way a vulnerability for him.

I think giving Azul a bunch of cuddles as he's crying is really cute. But you can also write about how Azul would open himself up to you—late night rant sessions about certain people, a secret about himself that not many people know. Something to remember as well is that he likes to be in control. Azul will have a tight hold on the kind of image he shows to people. Azul will choose carefully what people should hear and should not hear. So imagine him just letting himself be around you, with little thought about keeping that control of himself... that in itself is a sign of Azul opening up to you.

I acknowledge that this is a little bit messy, but I do want people to see that Azul is more than the breakdown that he had in chapter 3. He's got a more vibrant personality than that. And I would love to see more fics that explore his character a lot more, especially in romance fics.

#twisted wonderland #twst #azul ashengrotto

195 notes · View notes

avelera · 1 year

Note

10. Worst part of fanon(sorry if this has been asked before)

I think there’s a general trend in fanon where all the sharp edges and unique features of the character get scrubbed off in the sort of general jostling of characters bouncing between people’s various headcanons and personal lived experience and art styles.

That's one reason I try to keep an eye out on things Hob (or Dream) does that I wouldn’t, because for me therein lies what I find most interesting about the character. I think, for example, that it's natural for a normal person to imagine immortality and losing everyone they love periodically and the stresses of constantly reinventing yourself and be horrified! To feel the tragedy of that preemptively and imagine that an immortal existence would be filled with sorrow. Indeed, that is exactly what Dream thinks when he accepts the wager with Death in the first place.

Except Hob constantly surprises him. Hob as a character is specifically the anti-standard immortal. He doesn't feel those sorrows, or at least he doesn't wallow in them, yet he doesn't detach either, he still feels deeply about those he lost. He still goes out there and dates and marries regularly in the comic, he doesn't shy away from those experiences, and it never dims his fervor to live. That's really hard to imagine! That's what makes him so interesting! He doesn't do what we would expect.

(Even more controversial takes under the cut)

There is also a tendency to make the characters more... in line with the values and worldview of a good portion of the fandom, which is often young (under ~40, but 20-something is a more common median), usually but not exclusively female-presenting, politically progressive, tolerant (or at least aspirationally so), heavily engaged with stories and media and things like mythology (especially in the Sandman fandom), openly queer, concerned with social justice, and in general concerned with trying to be a nice person.

This personality profile is often where I see Hob and Dream's characterization drifting over time. And by the way, this is not unique to Sandman, it's pretty much par for the course in every fandom and it's totally natural that writers would drift towards their own lived experience when depicting characters.

For my own part though, I prefer writing characters who aren't me. I'm bored by me. I live me every day. I want to write characters who do things that I wouldn't do.

For example, I find Hob more interesting to write when he's not a mythology buff like I am. I don't think Hob is overly concerned with social justice until 1789 and even then, I don't think he became a crusader on the behalf of human social advancement. I find it more interesting if he's been a businessman through the ages more often than he was a soldier or anything more artistically inclined, because we see evidence of it on the page and because it's not what I would have done and I like to explore the mindset that leads to that choice.

And along these lines with regards to Dream, there's a personal...eh, to call it problem or even a squick would be too strong a word. "Difference of opinion" shall we say of a trend I've seen lately, which is Dream's gender fluidity and even the prevalence of him taking the more feminine role lately (thankfully, Hob and Dream seem for the most part balanced in which of them the fandom decides to depict in a more stereotypically feminine way from one creator to the next, even if I personally prefer to keep them both as masculine as is possible for my lived experience, it's not like Bagginshield where it was a 90/10 split on Bilbo being the one always feminized). I think this too arises out of the large percentage of queer writers in this space and it makes perfect sense to me.

However, personally, I see Dream as male. Which is funny considering I think I wrote one of the earlier "Fem" Dream fics with "Come live with me" but I vociferously stick to male pronouns for Dream in that fic even when he must present as female. Presenting as female is a source of difficulty for Dream in that story, he is not comfortable with it and would not do it if not for the requirements of the wager.

That said, in my fic Dream frequently presents with female sexual characteristics, like having breasts or a vagina or stereotypically "feminine" facial features. That's because, in my opinion, those things have nothing to do with whether Dream is male. I don't switch to female pronouns even when Dream is presenting as female, except when it is needed for the ruse, because having a cock or a pussy should have nothing to do with being male.

Dream is apathetic towards sexual organs, in my mind, but he has chosen to identify as male. (Edit: and just to be clear, I'm not saying gender as in "Gender is a choice" I'm saying this more along the lines of "right to self knowledge" which - Dream has determined himself to be male, therefore he is, and that deserves to be acknowledged and accepted without argument because it is his decision and his existence and no one else's) I think there's been a move in Sandman fanon towards saying that because the Endless should see gender as beneath them because they're eldritch, all-powerful beings, that they do. I actually find that much less interesting because it's so expected. I find it much more interesting that theoretically genderless beings choose to define their gender or lack of gender. If in our society someone can choose not to have gender define them, I think it is equally relevant to allow technically genderless beings choose the opposite, and I find it much more interesting if Dream chooses to be male and that, therefore, he is male.

Even in the scene in Overture when we meet all the different aspects of Dream, we have something like a 99-to-1 ratio of male-presenting (as far as we can tell) to female presenting Dream's in that milieu. And I find that intriguing. On the one hand, we could take that to mean that internally Dream is very male, but only has a 1% portion of him that defines herself as female. But I would go so far as to take it a step further and say if I was writing that version of fem Dream from Overture, I'd still have him use male pronouns, because appearing as female or having a stereotypically female appearance has nothing to do, in his mind, with who he is at his core. The Dreaming might be genderless, but I find it much more interesting and thematically relevant in Dream's struggle to find or resist his own personhood within his function if he has a strong sense of his own gender that is immutable across whatever form he takes, which is at odds with his function as the Dreaming not having a gender. It lends to the idea that Dream isn't just a function if he has a gender he has chosen. It lends to the theme of his independent personhood, which I find more interesting to explore.

And that's not necessarily a thing fanon gets "wrong" by the way, except insofar as I would point out that on the page, in the show and the comic, Dream isn't fluid. Of the Endless, only Desire is fluid in their presentation, the others present as male or female in contrast with Desire's identity. It's an intriguing fanon to say that all the Endless are fluid but it's not canon, it's not on the page, and for my own part, since I don't identify as male, I find it much more interesting to write Dream's experience as male, even when he has, for example, sexual organs I find more familiar.

#sandman meta

74 notes · View notes

sprout-fics · 7 months

Note

Good morning beautiful friend! Let me tell you, I went through and read every. single. thing. on your master list over the last week or so, and holy guacamole am I obsessed! You write so eloquently ❤️ All of these amazing writers (your lovely self included of course) inspired me to start posting my own writing. I wanted to ask if you had any tips on getting started? Where do I start? What's the best way to get my work viewed, what's the best way to tag stuff? Any other tips? I have some projects I've been working on, but I wanted to ask a few people for some tips before I posted anything. I'll appreciate anything you have to offer. Hope you're having the most amazing day. You deserve someone bringing you surprise flowers, no traffic on your way home, and a lovely breeze to keep you cool 😘

Hello dear! Thank you so much for your lovely ask! I’m so glad you’re enjoying my works, and thank you for reaching out! I’ve written a few posts on writing advice so far, but I’m happy to share more. Here’s some stuff I’ve written already:

Characterization for Characters

General Fandom Writing Advice

How To Conquer Writer’s Block

And here’s a few other posts by some other folks I’ve found helpful:

Writing Inclusively

Writing for Fun

In terms of getting started, here’s some general advice:

Write the stories you want to write. I’ve said this before but I cannot emphasize it enough. I’ve seen so many writer’s get burnt out by chasing trends and changing tastes of their followers, and as a result neglect the stories that are important to them. The best works are the ones that come straight from your heart, and your own personal passions. Ignore fandom trends and stay true to your own inspirations.

Curate your own space. This means creating a blog for your writing, figuring out what you do and do not want on it, who you do and do not want to engage with, and making sure these boundaries are clear to others. A great way to do this is through an FAQ or about post. I have mine linked in my masterlist if you’d like to take a look.

Additionally- find other authors and writers you enjoy, and try to make friends! It helps to have someone to share hobbies and ideas with. Whenever I’m running short of inspiration, I often approach my other writer friends to run an idea by them, and it is extremely helpful. Finding your own community is key.

Tag appropriately. Know common triggers, and be open to folks asking you to tag stuff you perhaps forgot to mention. Some common stuff includes sexual assault, noncon, major character death, specific traumas, self harm, etc. This helps folks filter the stuff they do not wish to see from you.

Use readmore/keep reading. I try to keep my posts pretty short, giving the tags, warnings, summary, header, and a brief intro to the piece. It’s common courtesy to shorten long posts to avoid making others scroll past over 500 words. (I often dismiss fics if they break this rule, and I’m certain others do the same)

Know what to tag and not tag to get your works seen. One thing I’ve noticed about he x reader side of fandoms is that they will spam the main tags, when a lot of folks are not looking for x reader fics. I’ve stopped posting any x reader content in the mw2/cod mw2/modern warfare/mwII tags, or if I do I always include an ‘x reader’ disclaimer so folks can filter it out

Also, in terms of tags, tag only the characters included in your writing. It doesn’t happen often, but I do see folks making a fic and then tagging it as every character under the sun to get it seen. Do not do this. It is spam.

That being said, there’s a bunch of ways to get your works seen. Taking up ideas from other folks (with permission) about headcanons, participating in writing challenges (@glitterypirateduck has a FANTASTIC few writing challenges, and more to come from what I can tell) and simply tagging your works so folks can find them is a great way to get started. Also, feel free to open requests as well. I find a lot of inspiration in folks coming to me with ideas they’d like to see written.

It helps to make your works visually attractive. I spend a lot of time on headers and creating banners for my works. It’s a lot of fun! It also helps you develop a good eye for visual design, which is a useful skill in general. If you are making banners, remember to request permission from artists if you are to use their art in your designs, and respect their wishes if they say no. Also, don’t just find art from Pinterest and include it. Try to find the source and ask there.

Finally, have fun! Writing fic shouldn’t be an obligation, it should be a joy and a gift. If you aren’t having fun, what’s the point?

I know this set of advice is a little scattered, but I hope you found it helpful! Feel free to ask more questions if you’d like. I might come out with some writing tips I’ve found helpful for my own particular style, as well as a guide to some common writing tools/programs/resources I currently use, and have used in the past. I hope this helped!

#writing advice #writing resources #writing tips #writing help #Always happy to share advice! Thank you dear!#faq

30 notes · View notes

somewhatsentientspellbook · 1 year

Text

Personal Take Incoming (Critical Role)

Consider this a diary entry explaining some of my thoughts on a few Critical Role characters. Avoid reading this post if you don't want my takes on Keyleth, Fjord, Ashton, Orym, Imogen, Percy, and Caleb.

So, I've noticed a common trend with my favourite characters across a variety of fandoms. I personally am an individual who gravitates towards characters with integrity, and rules for themselves that they follow. Characters that have lines in the sand that they can draw and then defend. It doesn't necessarily have to be rules put in place by society, it can be ones they made up for themselves. These characters oftentimes end up becoming the moral centre of their party, which adds another fascinating angle as they try to navigate maintaining their morals with a wider group filled with diverse opinions.

I suppose that is why Keyleth was my favourite Vox Machina character from pretty much the get-go! Her integrity was what endeared me to her throughout the entire campaign. She had opinions of what she thought was right and wrong, and she tried her hardest to enforce that view. Were there times when she learned she was wrong, yes. But she kept what she learned in mind and adjusted her internal monologue to see fit. Keyleth's integrity and unwillingness to engage in the overly amoral actions of Vox Machina created a lot of interesting dynamics.

In campaign two, Fjord quickly became my favourite for very similar reasons. He was the one to ask Beau to apologise to Toya and insist that the party help the Schuster kids so that they wouldn't be put in an orphanage. He also maintained a certain level of honesty with the rest of the party about his history and his mysterious dreams. In this case, Fjord wasn't necessarily 'good' (as he was comfortable with doing some pretty shitty stuff), but he still had expectations of himself and rules that he would not break.

I guess that is why Asthon and Orym are currently my favourite members of Bells Hells too. They both have convictions that they will not stray from and a certain level of integrity that the party honestly needs. Now, whether or not they are right is another discussion entirely, but the point is that they have the courage to stick to their guns even when the group is leaning in another direction.

People have been complaining that the takes on Imogen Temult are unfair, and some of those takes are unfair! But I won't shy away from the fact that Imogen is my least favourite member of Bells Hells (I still think they're all fantastic - including Imogen herself). She is my least favourite for exactly the reasons above. Imogen supposedly has internal rules, but we've seen her be more than happy to break them when they don't suit her at a given moment. She's said that she hates to pry into people's minds and that she avoids it wherever possible - but we see her willingly dive into the minds of people like Dorian without their consent. Imogen has stated that Laudna is the most important person in the world to her and that she loves her more than anything - but Imogen cannot look Laudna in the eyes and tell her that she won't side with Laudna's murderer. That doesn't make the character any less interesting, but it definitely makes it harder for me personally to like her.

I've seen a handful people across socials imply that if you like Percy or Caleb, but not Imogen - it's because she's a woman. This is where I wholeheartedly disagree. While the overly negative opinions of Imogen are harsh and unwarranted, Imogen is the first character whose allegiances I am genuinely uncertain about. Percy and Caleb have said and done truly awful things; I think we can all agree on that. And while they have considered leaving the group, it was under very different circumstances. For the longest time, Percy had nothing waiting for him outside Vox Machina, so the only time I feared he would leave the group was when he died (since Tal confirmed he would've been happy to stay dead). Caleb too, had very little beyond the Mighty Nein and he considered leaving them on multiple occasions. But never once did he consider leaving them to join their enemy. Now, had the M9 faced the Cerberus Assembly earlier in the campaign, that might have been different - but I never feared that Caleb would switch sides in the campaign we did get.

The thing is, Imogen does have something waiting for her: Lilliana and Predathos. I'm not sure about her allegiance, and that's where Imogen, Percy, and Caleb are different. While what Imogen has said/done has been tame compared to what Percy and Caleb have said/done - I know that the line Imogen is toeing is one neither of the others had dared to cross. Percy would never have considered joining forces with the Briarwoods, Thordak, or the Whispered One. Caleb would never have dared to join sides with Avantika, Obann, or Trent. But Imogen might.

That is fascinating. And dangerous. The future isn't set in stone, and all I can do now is bite my tongue and wait for episode 50.

#this has been in my drafts for so long #i didn't know how to word it in a way that would make it clear that this is all my personal opinion #these characters are all so fascinating #personal takes #cr meta #critical role #critical role spoilers #keyleth of the air ashari #fjord cr #orym of the air ashari #ashton greymoore #imogen temult #percy de rolo #caleb widogast #btw no one is obligated to agree/disagree - this has just been on my mind for weeks #but this is the first time ever that a character has a reason to change sides

73 notes · View notes

knightkneeler · 1 year

Note

hi i was wondering if you could explain your found family tweet? like are you saying it's ok to ship adopted siblings or? i'm sorry i just don't rly get it

I'm gonna be real, the way you've phrased this makes me think you're probably not asking it in good faith. I will try to explain anyway. those tweets were about two separate but related issues.

re: the shipping: I like a couple of ships in my primary fandom (Fire Emblem: Three Houses/Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes) that are sometimes considered to be pseudo-familial relationships by some people who don't ship them romantically. I'm specifically thinking of Edelgard/Lysithea and Dimitri/Felix. it's completely fine to not see these relationships as romantic. it's completely fine to see them as platonic or pseudo-familial. it's even completely fine to dislike the ships on the basis of reading them as pseudo-familial! this is very common with Edelys in particular, for a number of reasons I don't care to get into. I don't have a problem with it on its face.

however, there have been cases where people have posted in the ship tags or directly messaged artists & writers of these ships to harangue them for shipping them, or try to "correct" the shipping interpretation, because of their personal interpretation that these characters are "like siblings." I recall a few big incidents in Dimilix fandom where someone or other who didn't ship them tweeted in the tag that they were like brothers. a friend of mine received a message a couple of months ago about Edelys in the same vein. I often get replies to tweets about Edelys (or other Lysithea ships like Hilda or Leonie) from people saying they see Lysithea as the other character's little sister. this tendency is what I was bitching about. Edelgard and Lysithea do not canonically consider one another sisters. they are not related, not adopted, not step-siblings, not even childhood friends. they met as teenagers in war crime school. again, it's fine to interpret or headcanon their relationship as sibling-like! but that is one interpretation/headcanon. their relationship in the text can be interpreted any number of ways. I personally see it as romantic, and I think it's annoying when people try to tell me that interpretation is incorrect or morally wrong, somehow.

the other issue is that the popularity of interpreting close-knit social circles as "found families" has led to a trend in fandom where rather than a non-hierarchical network of unconditional love and support, the "family" is a recreation of the nuclear family; one or more characters are designated the "parents" of the group. this doesn't happen all that often in FE3H, probably because the groups are really big and the characters are generally close in age, but I've seen it in other fandoms that I'm not in, and it's bled over into media in general. a lot of people have held up the manga/anime Spy x Family as a "found family" narrative when it is literally a mother character, a father character, and a child character who (afaik, I haven't read/watched it) are not married/related. this is just a nuclear family with the serial numbers filed off.

the concept of a chosen family is that these are peers you can trust and rely on for anything, but who are not your biological family. my irl best friend is like family to me. I don't consider him to be "like a brother," but the heart of our friendship is unconditional love. we're always welcome under the other's roof. if we need to talk, the other's willing to listen. nuclear families have direct power structures. the child(ren) is/are subordinate to the parent(s). a parent has direct and absolute authority over their child. a circle of peers who provide unconditional love is not the same, and people should stop trying to draw analogues between "chosen family" and the heteropatriarchal nuclear family.

I hope this helped.

#asks #anon

13 notes · View notes

utilitycaster · 11 months

Note

Am I wrong in thinking that this latest Orym discourse seems to be a misunderstanding? I don't think the majority of people saying he's "going dark" are saying that as a criticism of him or his moral value, I don't agree with all of their speculation, but they seem to be excited about it more than anything.

I agree that probably the majority of people are using "going dark" simply to mean a loss of innocence/idealism and are interested in it (and while I don't agree that taking a more pragmatic approach is dark, I'm not addressing people who generally agree with me and are just phrasing it differently).

There have been a handful of people treating this as an extremist, hateful, or morally absolutist choice; people who interpreted "die trying" as Orym having a death wish rather than just a statement of fact; and someone with a significant Twitter presence referred to Orym's behavior as "bloodlust". I think it's certainly a minority, and it's much quieter today than it was on Friday-Sunday, and I'd even go so far as to say we're seeing the response to that far outstrip and outlast the initial statements, but yes, there were some extremely harsh criticisms of Orym.

I have to admit this is one of those things where it's like... unless something is really egregious or I do have actual proof otherwise, I generally assume that if people are responding to something I don't recognize, I simply missed it for whatever reason. Some of the most unpleasant asks or reblogs I've gotten (to be clear - not this ask, you're good) have been from people who got mad at me for making a post responding to a common trend I was noticing because they claimed to have not seen that trend and then jumped to various conclusions on why I'd say such a thing. I think we'd all be happier if we recognized that thanks to curation, platforms, and people who have us blocked, we all see slightly different cross-sections of the fandom and should assume good faith.

#answered #Anonymous #cr tag

19 notes · View notes

bedlamsbard · 1 year

Note

For the ask game, 1 and 24.

the character everyone gets wrong

I said Steve the last time I did this (and I do think he gets it the worst) and while Loki is the obvious runner-up, I find that the Thor films (+ A1, IW, Loki) are so inconsistent that tbh, that's more understandable. So -- Natasha. There's a huge tendency throughout the fandom to flatten Natasha out in ways that are wildly inconsistent with her actual portrayal in canon, some of which is spillover from comics, some of which is just taking her at face value, some of which is just being unwilling to pay attention to what's onscreen. Like, the number of times I see people being unwilling to acknowledge that Natasha is Clint's best friend? A lot! Or that Natasha is (minus five minutes in CACW) consistently on Steve's side, not even in a shippy way? Also a lot! Or -- this might be a more cosplay-specific one, but I've seen it in fic and edits and art as well, the idea that Natasha is very...I'm probably going to use the wrong word here, but that Natasha is very, very femme, in a "always wears bold makeup, paints her nails, red lip, has her tits out" kind of way. The only time we see Natasha do that kind of, mm, performative femininity is IM2 and the beginning of The Avengers when she's literally not being herself and I'd also make a strong argument for AoU here, though with AoU I do think she's deliberately presenting herself in that specific for PR purposes. (Besides, you know, Joss Whedon being terrible about her.) Obviously there is a certain amount that's there because this is a movie and everything is a little more exaggerated. Like, even though in all movies but one Natasha is in heels or wedges in her tactical gear it's at least partially because they have to get 5'3" ScarJo into the same frame as all their six-foot tall boys as well as being ~sexy; Natasha is probably not wearing 3-inch wedges into a fight, and we know that because none of her shoes in BW have a heel/wedge on them. (I also strongly suspect BW may be the only film where she's wearing a sports bra in the suits.) Some of it is probably spillover from comics, because comics Natasha is more femme fatale-ish than MCU Natasha.

(Obviously for cosplay purposes do whatever the hell you want, these are just trends I've noticed; I am in this community too, which is why I see it come up over and over again in the first place. This is the only time I've gone "wow, I do not have the tits for this," which is actually quite disconcerting if it's never come up as ~something to be self-conscious about before.)

Some of it is also fandom's general propensity to flatten female characters in general -- the team mom thing, the only one with the braincell thing, the femme fatale thing, etc. Like, yes, it's funny the first ten times, and then it's "...we're really not watching the same movies, huh?"

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

this is more like a "top five" topics than a single one SO in no particular order

was baby Loki kidnapped or rescued (child abandonment was and is a real thing, but in ancient/medieval cultures it is both (a) real and legal and (b) a common mythological trope, have you never heard of Oedipus)

Sokovia Accords and everything surrounding them (even canon regretted this one, which is kind of a shame because I would have liked to see the MCU treat it seriously after CACW -- only Ant-Man and the Wasp and Black Widow actually started to deal with it, and it got resolved offscreen years later in She-Hulk)

did the Asgardians deserve to be genocided (what the hell is wrong with you people, why have I been in real fandoms where this is a real question)

Loki/Sylvie (not my ship, I don't care, but hoo boy)

is Endgame good or bad (woof)

#windona #bedlam replies #bedlam watches the mcu

8 notes · View notes

runephoenix6769 · 8 months

Text

There's a trend I've been noticing a lot lately to do with tagging, and culture around it. We all know that its a system that goes both ways, in that you tag stuff so its easier for other folks with similar interests to find, and also folks can be responsible for their own online experience (like you're supposed to do) and block tags they don't wanna see. This becomes really difficult when folks don't have common courtesy. I've seen numerous posts lately where an anon has politely asked if someone can tag their shit, and the replies have been quite frankly hostile. I've seen replies where the OG poster have said that they don't see anything wrong with their posts or its not that gory, or and in a good few cases what boils down to them saying they cannot be arsed. (paraphrasing) ''sucks to be you, you didn't want to see spoilers' <- on things that haven't been released yet. "I'm gonna be posting about this for while, and I'm not gonna tag my shit so go ahead and block me!" <- says you can't be bothered., and you're a bit of a dick. An explanation for your posts is not the point, folks don't have to explain or defend what they are posting, but you are not the arbiter of what someone else can or cannot handle. If someone is coming to you and politely asking for you to tag things correctly, that's not a judgement or an attack, its a polite request that says "Hey, I mostly enjoy what you post, and I want to keep following you. Its cool you've got another interest, thumbs up, no judgement I'm not great with <insert whatever here> and I'm trying to responsibly curate my own space, as fandom/internet etiquette encourages." Its becoming increasingly difficult to do the thing we've all been harping on about and encouraging people to do when the push back is folks refusing to tag their stuff because they can't be bothered, or being plain rude about being asked. (I'm 100% certain those same people would be frothing at the mouth if they came to read a fanfic and found it incorrectly tagged.) Is tagging and being responsible for your own experiences, and common courtesy not the backbone of shared fandom spaces? We've all seen the posts over the years to do with tagging on fics etc, an if you ignore the tags on a fic then be it on your own head if you get triggered/butt hurt. Well, it goes both ways. Folks cannot responsibly curate their own internet experience if shit ain't tagged. What makes it even more vexing is often the bloody tags were put there previously by someone else, and reblogger just cannot be bothered to scroll down, and take a few seconds to click a few things. We're all here in the same wonderful space, sharing wonderful things, it costs nothing to tag stuff correctly. Think of it as a shared public space, and ask yourself, are you the asshole on the bus playing music through your phone's speaker full blast?

#tagging culture

6 notes · View notes

whereistheonepiece · 1 year

Note

i'm both extremely late and extreeeemely new to this discussion, but here i am, regardless.

[ this is in relation to a post you made last june about zoro's feelings being disregarded in a lot of zs content / zoro being more of a glorified prop. ]

i completely agree, though i don't know if things have gotten any better or any worse i am /very/ new to one piece. but from what i've seen, a lot of the jokes surrounding zoro or using zoro as the butt of the joke have a tendency to fall flat with me.

this is because he's such a stoic character, but i get uncomfy when he's made the butt of the joke - either literally, he's the chosen target of a prank or well-meaning jibe, or even just with his running gag of getting lost, or the idea that zoro is stupid or dumb. i get iffy when he's not laughing along, mostly, since the trend of it across a lot of zosan content / fics / discussions nudges it into something more akin to bullying for me.

i'm not sure if this is what you were getting at, please forgive me if i've gone off the rails, but it does bug me quite a bit.

pretty much since i joined this specific ship's fandom, i've been collecting zs content where zoro gets cared for, like a dragon with a hoard. it's such a shame that it's not more common / it's so hard to come by and you usually have to actively dig for it, if you don't just happen to run across it, but there's so much mileage to be found there, i think.

zoro is a wonderful character with his own depth and feelings, and as much as i adore sanji, i think we would only benefit from zoro getting some of the spotlight too :)

( sorry for the long ask, i have several feelings about this )

Okay! Sorry it took me so long to respond to this!

So I wasn't even thinking about the "Haha Zoro dumb!" jokes when I made that post, but they do annoy me. A lot. And I'll admit that there's probably a bit of projection going on there because I don't think Zoro is dumb just because he thinks differently than people and has different priorities. And I'm probably projecting because I tend to get treated as stupid because my brain works differently from other people's. ADHD mind and all that. So I tend not to talk about my disdain for the jokes and the general fandom attitude towards Zoro's intelligence, but I don't add to it.

Idk if I can say if it's gotten better, at least in fic. I haven't read Zosan fic in a while since I find that a lot of the popular stuff does what I mentioned, ie, making Zoro a prop and not considering his own feelings and needs. I'm curious about the fics where Zoro gets taken care of, though. I've had to write my own fics where Zoro gets cared for since it feels so rare.

Anyway, the short version of how I still feel is I think the fandom should portray Zoro with more care and keep in mind that, like you said, Zoro is his own character with his own feelings. So I'm just gonna have to be the change I want to see and make my own food.

#i've decided not to put this in the tags this time around #feeling less controversial today #save #asks #anonymous

4 notes · View notes

bookofmirth · 2 years

Note

see on one hand i totally agree that you shouldn’t waste your time on being negative about characters or ships you don’t like but majority of the time i see these type of comments it’s from feysand stans that are upset that nesta stans are able to use the strange moral code sjm uses in her writing to point out nesta ain’t all that bad in the grand scheme of things and compared to majority of the characters

a lot of the time it’s feysand stans that reblog cute feysand art but 70% of their blog is shitting on nesta and calling her an abuser and saying that anyone who likes her is a horrible human but when a nesta stan posts anything criticising the inner circle or feysand then it’s immediately ‘don’t read these books if you don’t like rhys and the ic’ or ‘get out of the fandom’ or just in general shitting over any opinion that criticises the inner circle and rhysand and says it’s pointless writing anti posts and to get out of the fandom but at the same time writing anti nesta posts for the majority of their blog

i think it’s honestly quite clear that nesta is held to a higher moral standard than most of the other characters. for rhys, for example, his actions utm are majority of the time justified by his stans because acotar is ‘enemies to lovers’ and he’s ‘morally grey’ but saying that nesta’s behaviour at the beginning of acotar is excused because nesta was an evil sister cardboard cut out villain and that she’s morally grey is not allowed because then you’re invalidating feyre’s abuse. i love rhys AND nesta (i know, not common) but it’s clear he gets a lot of leeway where nesta absolutely doesn’t which is why i think her stans are as aggressive as they sometimes are. because for the longest time nesta was hated on so badly and anyone that liked her was immediately an abuse apologist and a red flag so it’s not surprising to me that some stans have become super defensive when they defend her and have an answer for everything

I respect where you are coming from anon, and I know that people have been saying things that are rude and inflammatory, but I think you are illustrating what the anon and I were talking about in that ask. I can speak for myself for sure when I say this is what I meant when I said that in addition to the ship war, we have the Nesta versus the IC war.

(I am using your ask to address something that I have seen in the fandom at large A LOT this past month or so. My comments aren't just about this ask, it just gave me an excuse to talk about it.)

People get called an abuse apologist for liking tamlain, for liking Tamlin in general, for liking Nesta, Lucien, let's see... oh if you dislike Elain you're misogynist. My point in that post was that it's hard just existing in the fandom without encountering people complaining or just being outright rude. And I think that was anon's point too, that it's nearly impossible to say anything without people jumping in with an accusation of some kind, and refusing to accept any other opinions. Which it sounds like you have experienced! I wasn't pointing any fingers, though I know that doing so is practically the newest fandom trend that everyone *must* try at least once. It annoys the shit out of me, personally.

It's the way that the fandom is taking the ship war behaviors and applying it to something that shouldn't be a war in the first place. Instead of elriels vs gwynriels, it's Nesta stans versus IC stans and I HATE it 😴 The rhetoric ends up sounding eerily similar, to the point where we can't escape the ship war vibes no matter how hard we try.

So back to the whole finger pointing thing - oh, this random asshole you've never met said something you don't like? And did they hold a weapon to your head and make you respond in kind, with equal if not worse insults, slurs, and bullying? No. They didn't. (This is not "you" as in you, anon, this is a general "you".)

All these excuses that I've seen - primarily in the ship war - saying "well we did that as a reaction" 🤣🤣🤣 are you kidding me???? Is that not what toddlers say when they get caught punching their siblings? "Don't hit your sister" "but she stole my Barbie!" I- I just cannot with the things this fandom says with a straight face.

So yeah anyway. Our feelings are valid. The actions we take based on those feelings are 100000% our responsibility. I recognize that it's hard to turn the other cheek and let things go. Trust me. I do it regularly when I delete a rude anon, or when I see a ss of someone being a complete dingus on Twitter. I don't even have a perfect track record with how I respond (see: me defending Mor on occasion with more vehemence than is probably necessary). But saying "well I did it because they did it first". And if gwynriels/elriels/nesta stans/your mom jumped off a bridge, would you do that too?

says it’s pointless writing anti posts and to get out of the fandom but at the same time writing anti nesta posts for the majority of their blog

Gah, do people really not understand the difference between just disliking something and being an actual, full on anti?

(This is again a general "you" in this paragraph, not you directly, anon.) Perhaps, what would be more useful, is addressing everyone as individuals with their own opinions and reasons behind them. I absolutely agree that there are trends within fandom that can be misogynist or homophobic or what have you. (Case in point, everyone lusts over Az and Eris, the professional torturer and the man who left Mor to die, but they talk shit about Elain and Mor, two of the least problematic people in the whole series. What's that trend driven by? I'll give you one guess.) But that's a cultural problem, not necessarily an individual one. Are there people who are more guilty of this than others? Yes. So you block those people. You feel whatever it is that their words made you feel, and then you decide how you want to react. Because your reaction? You own that. No one else does.

Okay anyway, back to you anon 😂 I also like both Rhys and Nesta. Rhys pissed me OFF a few times in acosf with how he treated her, but she pissed me off in that fight with Elain. I totally get what you mean when you say that Nesta doesn't get forgiveness as easily as Rhys. Especially considering their age differences and the fact that he's a High Lord who now has everything he ever wanted, and she's a traumatized woman spiraling into self harm.

I guess the thing I wish could happen, is that people either 1) read the things that are actually being written and take that person as an individual without assuming right away that they are pro this character and anti that character, and 2) just move along if they really are just an asshole we don't want to deal with. The way people see everything in black and white terms means that there are two options. We either end up in a circle jerk with people who think the exact same way we do, or we scream at people we think we have absolutely nothing in common with.

#acotar fandom #ask #anon

5 notes · View notes

jjheejz · 3 years

Text

About Internet Water Army in the case

This is an ongoing update about the case from start to development. List of all related posts can be found on this blog's pinned post (link provided at bottom of each post as well).

19 August 2021 update: Added the scale of his success for reference, before bonus below

18 August 2021 update: Added timeline of events, orange title in post, found out the official English term for Immoral Media = Internet Water Army)

Major updates since first draft: Added bonus, added disclaimer, certain info details

Originally posted on 16 August 2021

[The purpose of this post is to provide a perspective as to why the Media is raised/blamed regarding the issue. Especially for international fans, as all the encounters happened on Weibo. Also, those who were on weibo, do read through if you will. So although it's lengthy, do try to read all, at least if not the last two parts].

The Media referred by most, is not the common perception of the Entertainment Industry (celebrities, directors, shows, channels, staff etc), but the dark side of the Entertainment industry: Antis, toxic fans, toxic marketing accounts. They are called Internet Water Army💧.

Toxic Marketing Accounts is one of the things they do, these accounts on Weibo has millions of followers, each of their post likes are in the hundred thousands (buyable) to give credibility to passer-bys. Some use similar names to Official accounts, some use similar logos. Their posts are usually subjective or aims to steer view points of a certain celebrity/movie/show. Before the latest update of this post (18.08.21), I just group them all together and term them as Immoral Media*.

*Below is my original post using my original term because at point of first draft, I did not know the official term (so have changed/added the term from Immoral Media to Internet Water Army in content below but retain the content based off first draft).

If you have chased before celebrities, or just simply passed by an article about certain celebrities, recall how some title that caught your attentions were like. Clickbaits is one of the many things they do. If GZ is your first and you do not have Weibo, then this read(link) is good enough.

Just as the term Immoral Media (Internet Water Army), it’s immoral and unethical, but they exists because they are paid to do so. Who pays them? Entertainment Companies, and maybe other Organisations

Normal Media/Marketing vs Immoral Media/Toxic Marketing/Internet Water Army

When a show or movie comes out, the normal Marketing department will generate outreach and buzz so that people know a show is airing soon/know the show exists etc. Official announcements are not enough, because there isn’t much context (limited content to put up as well) so having some other Marketing accounts do the buzz in a planned period to gain awareness through posts, some articles about the casts, the plot summary, the production details etc is normal. This is Marketing, bigger companies will probably have stronger Marketing departments (aka influence) and can hire more Marketing accounts to generate buzz. Celebrities (aka casts) themselves, are also Marketing point.

Then we have the Internet Water Army/Immoral Media, these are what they mainly do:

Create Fanfiction-rumors: Creating rumors about celebrities to shift audience perception of them. [eg. XX was seen with XX leaving a hotel, XX was drunk on Event Y and did ZZZ to AA, XX is dating BB and has been in a relationship for N years etc]

Honing their brain degrading skills: Come up with titled clickbait headings/ trending topics with negative written contents. For articles, exceptionally out of heading content related to the celebrity. [Refer to Baidu, it’s a winner of these, feel free to Google Translate]

Regressing their common sense and understanding skills: Take everything a celebrity does completely out of context in a negative way and create a topic out of it [eg. XX said AA is a ---, “XX raised his finger, a sign of ---?”, XX pushed BB aggressively on Variety Show Y - A competition variety show, XX is in beef with CC because XX was caught giving CC the eye]

Using their fingers to stir shit and bathe each other in it: Escalate all smallest form of possible tension created by fans/themselves into a huge thing by acting as the fandom's fans/lurk in fandom chat groups, and voicing their disguised opinion to spread tension/exaggerate severity of the issue [eg. XX fans mocked AA - in groupchats: tbh I've never liked AA before, AA just gives off a vibe that I dont like and now this? It just disgusts me even more > Yea, i feel this way too. AA has problems / XX Lurkers expressing views on XX about NN, slowly to NNMHFXW - XX did NNMHGT - I cannot accept NNmHfHw, I'm leaving = multiply by 1000++]

Epitome of a self-deteriorate: Creating something out of nothing and react to that something negatively to gain massive attention/reaction [eg. “XX raised his hand on show Y” - dk what XX fans are thinking, are they literally blind? XX fans are tasteless just like XX hahaha / “XX did community service” - they are acting / “XX breathed” - From the start, i thought XX was NN, but I am so ZZZ that XX breathed. Goodbye fandom, i’m leaving. Those who still want to stay I urge you to rethink your life choices] - if I may add, Xiao Zhan’s fanfiction case as well.

Metaphor - Ability to use bare hands to collect paychecks from the urinal/toilet bowl where their boss/client peed in: Doing all of the above.

Apologies for any term offense, but not apologetic of the term context. This is what they do for a living. Any normal human being who do not like anything, will generally not be interested at anything about it in the first place, so to have some antis/toxic fans knowing certain things and inside jokes/references in their posts questions their goal.

On involved in Internet Water Army/Immoral Media 💧

Fans on weibo during these few months witnessed many of the above on GZ. From rumored girlfriend (spammed with articles) to mean and nasty comments on trending topics, to bouts of insults and fake emotional cryouts by certain fan accounts that GZ's office has to release a number of Lawyer’s letter to them.

Aside from WOH there were also a few other BL adaptation films that were actually released this year but they did not reach exponential success like WOH. BL adaptations are so highly followed by because this is the key to wealth. Literally. Successful BLs like The Untamed and Dao Mu Bi Ji saw the amount of wealth fans are willing to spend on the celebrity as compared to say BG or idols (younger fan groups). This is why when WOH shot up exponentially, Immoral Media start to sweat.

Major anticipated adaptations were supposed to air this year eg. Hao Yi Xing(HYX), Sha Po Lang(SPL) etc but was severely held back due to the stricter change in BL adaptations submitting their scripts for approval regulations (WOH manage to submit earlier before the change). Because of this, most final films were rejected and they have to keep re-editing, by then WOH was already months into reaping tonnes of major brand endorsements, shows/movie casting, variety show appearances etc, something that is seen as too successful in the Immoral Media’s eyes, because they have to create buzz for other celebrities, some are specific celebrity oriented and thus circulate rumors about having endorsement opportunities shifted from celebrity X to GZ (think fanfiction-rumors and shit stirrer) causes tension in celebrity fandoms. - A real event just in July:

The Untamed’s cp fandom is called BJYX which had always been in the Top 1 of Cps for 2 years dropped for awhile to Top 2, over taken by LLD. Both of them had a war and hated each fandom, one fandom is somehow not allowed to like the other fandom even casually after everything broke out because it started out with some BJYX toxics photoshopped GZ on of portraits .

Also another case of which he wore the same costume as WYB did in a previous photoshoot and it became a useless comparison of who wore better, who looks better, degrading the other. (Finger stirring shit).

Now apply all of the above things the Internet Water Army do and we have them earning money, while both fandom reacts and hate each other.

In LLD, our own fans started suspecting each other on who is a spy from BJYX and what not.

The first few months of Internet Water Army saw LLDs mostly mocking them because the average age is 30-40s, they know and see through all of their intentions so nothing was big. They were trumpeting and LLDs didn’t even care, what with all the doing tedious stats was not even important to them.

Over time, as the issues they create became more and more serious LLDs did start to care, reporting Toxic Marketing accounts/toxic fans became a daily task, go vote for GZ at certain polls etc, solo fans, and LLD fans also split apart. Solo fans think cp fans use GZ to furnish their fantasies, and cp fans thinks they are the ones furnishing their dreaming-girls fantasy with (aka my boyfriend).

There was also a period where LLD had a habit of continuously mentioning “we are in the 30-40s so we can see through everything about the media, we are all fans for the first time, we are good at spending money (because of purchase power compared to other fandoms)” it was prevalent for so long it felt odd, ‘chasing celebrities the first time’ in particular sounds more vulnerable as a weakness than a strength / sth to be proud of.

Gradually, more secretive/insider confirmed ‘sweets’ were flying around. Fans advised each other to not circulate, and the mindset of “if you know, you know, dont tell.” (This is a problematic mentality, of which fans will still be curious to know and search for it themselves, but this secretive hook is unhealthy. Over the long term, it becomes hard for existing fans to know a lot of things properly to judge for themselves, especially those who knew and publicly reacted, but blasting those who ask and telling those who know to keep quiet, this did not help some to understand why on certain things, even so for international fans, dont know and dont understand, causing misunderstandings. Yes, certain information should not be shared, so why should you react about it publicly in the first place? - Internet Water Army effect)

The last few months (for example the July fan war) created a tonne of seriousness and anger. A period even broke out with a tonne of ‘insider confirmed sweets’ (which is LLD’s daily dose of happiness), it was hard to tell what was real and what was fake. Trending topics became negative and everyone warned each other not to enter because it will give the trends ‘views’ and trend statistics, in reality entering there is to enter an exhibition by the self-deteriorates, collecting the fandom's traffic data (it's a sure lose for fans each time they enter the topic). Everyone even starts thinking that the trend’s popularity was caused by each other (it's true but it can be bought daily and not caused by fans). There was a raise in the number of fans who were getting emotional because they want to protect but Internet Water Army kept coming and got worse, because fans, tbh, not just GZ fans, every other celebrity’s fans are always fighting with an Army, getting played and plotted in that Army's calendar.

Even so, despite all of these, LLD is actually a fandom Internet Water Army may find the hardest to break because they understand GZ so much, they could tell what are fake news regarding GZ, because among everything above, there are still plenty of logical fans to stop many fans from drifting too far and debunking them. Why? 30-40s are grown up adults.

Why 13.8.21 and the Japan issue is plotted?

First of all, in the political climate of China, there are many political dates in a month that is NO-Entertainment news. Because it’s the honoring of certain important political events. It’s like Remembrance Day, thus the sensitivity is higher. On these days, there are usually no news and even the Internet Water Army zip their pants. This year also marks the 100th year of the Chinese Communist Party(link)

Secondly, he had no work schedule on 13 August 2021. A great full day to focus on any other news (because if he had schedules, everyone will turn their attention to his events, what trumpeting outside is just bird chirps).

Thirdly, when the news broke out, especially about the shrine, the reception was actually quite serious within the fandom so the scale of this might be big but to what extent in reality?

Lastly, 15.8.21 marks the 76th anniversary of the announcement of surrender of Japanese in World War 2(link). Also a day of NO-Entertainment news.

Timeline of events:

13.8.21 - [His rest day, Eve of Chinese Valentine's Day, Japan News broke out] His rest day, no schedules = increased attention about him online. Lowered guard among fans because they are getting ready for tomorrow's Chinese Valentine's sweets = Caught off guard = Huge break out of fans' reactions

14.8.21 - [Chinese Valentine's Day, Eve of the 75th Anniversary of the announcement of Japanese surrender] Keep a wishful and happy demenaor to not destroy the mood, suppressed thoughts about ZZH's Japan news

15.8.21 - [75th Anniversary of the announcement of Japanese surrender, Official announcement of ZZH's boycott and all China social media account ban] NO-Entertainment news day, Solemn day, not allowed to voice anything so the fandom can only wait for tomorrow to start voicing out/debunking but before they can wait out, the boycott and social media ban happened, every official accounts about him was gone overnight, fans had no time to react

17.8.21 - [All official fandom accounts related to ZZH and JunZhe were locked/removed]

Forced to be silent since the day his matter broke out, over the course of official news release with everything taken down in a day because of the Japan correspondence, his accounts banned overnight across the Chinese media and the overnight cancellation, fans could not speak anything about it. Overnight cancellation like this scale happened for the first time in China, leaving no time to react by the fandom, by the time they can, they are silenced.

When the period of events occured within a set of special dates, it’s not coincidence.

Conclusion

Because he was too successful and had many actually honorable past things, and a hard to influence fandom, Internet Water Army view him as a huge threat enough to want to destroy him, because it’s hard to defeat. With a chance they have, they will hold it till the end, bringing up this issue to the Government during this period also shows a sign of how scared they were of him and perhaps his fandom to plot something like this.

Updated on 19 August: Here's a screenshot of assumed calculation on the scale of GZ success for reference while chatting with a fellow fan, assuming GJ also has 27 brands, and there are 1000 brands. Rationale of numbers used: Only big brands can hire big celebrities.

Bonus

Mentioned in the first post, will mention again in case. After the news broke out within 2 days, there was a drop on his weibo followers from 18.9mil to 18.7mil. 200k+ drops, if the politics was such a big national issue, there should at least be a huge drop, even at least a million right? Because weibo is a China-Chinese majority right? Nope, we get a puny 200k drop.

What's funny? The self-deteroriates:

Translation: "Are his fans bought? Why didnt he drop fans? Those people got brainwashed to this point?" / "I've never entered his weibo and today i feel like having a look yet it showed I've followed him. All his fans were bought right? It disgusts me, i immediately unfollowed. This kind of process is worse than WYF..." / "i dropped fans because of him...no...I just reposted 2 posts and I've dropped 4 fans?"

Isn't the tone and regressing brain cells, all too familiar and same?

Added above, will remind again to read this link. It has an even more in-depth knowledge on who are paying them.

So what should we do? Link here