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antiyourwokehomophobia2 · 1 month

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Man, this pisses me off so bad. If you're a woman who relates more to males than other women, it's because you've decided to focus more on how you're different from other women rather than how you're like them. You will literally never have more in common with males, and males do not feel the same way about you. These cute little posts that you write about how you love males more than your fellow women? They do not write the same thing about you. They hate and mock you constantly. Anyone remember "Cis women need to shut up"

"As a cis woman, I agree"

"You need to shut up, specifically"

Yea, that's how they feel about you and your solidarity.

The difference between lesbians and trans women in female spaces is the fact that lesbians do not have high rates of violence. There is no group of women that outclass men in terms of violent tendencies. Trans women retain the rates of male violence that regular men do. I'm not saying you have to treat trans women like they're all violent beasts, but if you can't see why female people would be uncomfortable with male people in their spaces, you're either naive or genuinely unsympathetic towards the very real fear that women have of being subjected to male violence. You can't say trans women and lesbians are similar because, unlike males, there is no statistical evidence that lesbians are highly likely to take advantage of a woman. If it turned out that 98% of rapes were committed by lesbians, I would 1000% understand why straight women don't fucking want to be around me. Have some fucking empathy, holy fucking shit. Even if you are completely on board with trans women being in female spaces, at LEAST acknowledge that it makes sense for women to be concerned about who is allowed in their spaces. It's crazy how I could tell someone I have a fear of dogs because one bit me when I was a kid, and they'd put their sweet pooch up, but God forbid a woman be cautious around a demographic who commit 90% of all violent crime. Oh no. That woman is suddenly a terf bitch.

I have nothing in common with trans women. I don't care how much pain they have experienced. We are not the same. When I was twelve, I cried and I cried as I put my palms together to pray to a God I hoped would be able to take away my homosexuality. I didn't even grow up in a particularly homophobic family. Both of my parents were accepting of me, but I still sat in the dark of my room, tears streaming down my face, as I prayed to have my sexuality changed.

Two years later, one of my friends made a joke about me dressing to impress my crush. She said my crushes name---a feminine name. A girl sitting in earshot heard her, turned to me, and asked me with disgust if I was gay. I said no without even thinking about it. It absolutely did not help that we were in a locker room with other girls. I was aware of my sexuality by that point, but I was 14 and unable to hold my own against a girl looking at me like THAT. For a few weeks after that, that girl made comments about how she was "watching me".

I know pain, I know discomfort, I know what it's like to feel predatory. Seeing feminine women, especially if they're white, makes me feel like an alien. I look at them and think "how are we so different? I see none of myself in you."

Sometimes I'm right. Sometimes we're not similar at all. But guess what? That doesn't mean I'm similar to a straight male. Fucking hell, sometimes I'm not similar to other lesbians. That's completely normal. I think OP needs to read better work by cishet women. If you think that there is not a single piece of cishet female writing that can move you more than something written by a male, you're not looking in the right places at all. I don't understand why some LB women seem to think that the very act of someone being a straight woman makes them incapable of relatability. Of course it makes sense for you to be cautious. Lesbians deal with a lot of alienation and predatory feelings, but if the very ACT of a woman being cis and straight makes you feel like she has absolutely nothing in common with you...? The issue lies with you. YOU are the one othering THEM. Not the other way around. You're the one who has decided that a few cis straight women othering you means that they ALL will so you'd better beat them to the punch. You're the one who has decided that your relationship to womanhood is so astronomically different from straight women that nothing they say speaks to you. That's INSANE. Do you realize how much you have to alienate yourself from womanhood to feel more relatability with a male person than a female one? Idk how to tell you this, but it is highly probable that the most cis, most het woman you have ever met has had a period. It's highly likely she's been harassed by a man. It's highly likely she's been made to feel inferior by way of being born female. No, they can't relate to the experience of being a lesbian who is made to feel predatory for no reason, but to say that nothing a cis het woman says/experiences can move you at all? Nothing they say can make you feel like your experience with womanhood and hers are similar? Do you realize how you sound? "Trans women have been harassed by men and made to feel inferior, too!!" Okay! So you should be able to relate to cis women in the way you do trans women, right?

I told my discord server that I was nervous about my future roommates. I showed them photos and someone said "all this tells me is that they're feminine and white" and I literally think about that all of the time. I was projecting. I was so scared that these white, feminine, probably straight women were going to judge me for being a black lesbian that I didn't even realize that I was the one violently judging them based off of nothing but their skin color and their femininity. I knew nothing about them. I STILL know nothing about them. I've barely spoken to them. But already I had labeled them as unrelatable judgemental women because of how they looked. Hold on. Wasn't I the one afraid of them judging ME? How could I be so afraid of them judging me for being a black lesbian when I was the one judging them already? What sense does that make?

You guys are so busy writing off cis straight women as unrelatable bigots that you've failed to see that you're the one who is extremely prejudiced against them. And I absolutely fucking know someone is gonna read this and say "well, you can't say that all trans women have male violence patterns and dahdahdahdah" and it's like. But YOU can say that cis straight women are so unbelievably different from lesbian women that you'd rather say you're more similar to a straight up fucking male???

I'm not saying it's not a little jarring to see women who are so different from me. I'm not saying I haven't been burned before and there's no reason for me (or other lesbians) to be cautious. But I will literally ALWAYS have more in common with cishet women than I ever will a man pretending to be a woman.

One time I had a professor. She was on the older side (I'd say 40's) and white. Not the type of person I'd think I'd click well with. She was straight and married with children. One day we talked after class, and the only thing that ended our conversation was the fact she had an event she had to go to. We would've talked longer if not for that. She emailed me a little while later to tell me that she enjoyed our chat. After that, she actually hugged me on two occasions. You wouldn't think we'd have common ground. An older, straight, married white mother and a young black lesbian. Both of us are "cis" but I can tell you I relate to her much better than I ever could someone born male.

I once had a personal trainer who was a feminine woman. She had acrylic nails and everything. One time she said that she couldn't hug her male friends anymore because she had a boyfriend (he wasn't the one enforcing that rule. That was something she personally felt). Also not someone I thought I'd click well with. But we did. One time we had a really productive discussion that was actually derived from the conversation with my professor. I felt very close to her in that moment. Our conversation came to a close because she had another client, but I still think about that convo.

There have been so many fucking times where I thought "this woman is not like me. Look at her." But what I realized was that I was the judgmental one. I was the one deciding we were different, not her. I was the one writing her off. I was the one convinced we had nothing in common.

I am BEGGING you not to alienate your fellow women. There are no inherent traits that make you unable to relate to other women. No amount of whiteness or cisness or straightness can make a woman completely unreachable. I am NOT talking about political parties or views so don't fucking try me with that shit. Obviously that puts a wedge between people, but someone simply being born cis and het does not make them alien from you. For God's sake, look at the fucking MeToo movement. Women from all fucking backgrounds who share an experience that an unfortunate amount of women go through. Women from all different races, sexualities, etc. who came together to talk about how they've been subjected to sexual violence. Ellen degeneres was one of them. How does that fit into your "lesbians and cishet women cannot relate to each other" spiel?

OP's post has 130k notes and it makes me fucking sick. Holy crap y'all, we need more solidarity than this. Other women are not your enemy. I'm begging you to reconsider your approach to women who are different than you. You are missing out on people who can love and support you in a way that literally no male can. You are depriving yourself. Just because a few cishet women in the past alienated you, does not mean that you have to continue their legacy. Let it go. Everyone on earth can see you embracing your hatred of women, and you wonder why your fellow women never hug you? They fucking can't! Put your hatred down and make space for the love that comes with realizing that you absolutely are like other girls!

#You guys think you're so progressive but you're just in a woke version of not like other girls #Stop comparing lesbians to literal males #Jesus fucking Christ #I actually hate you guys so fucking much #I'm never telling anyone I'm gay every again bro #I hate all of you #I should've prayed to be asexual man #Maybe god would've taken me more seriously

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ohara-n-brown · 2 months

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[WARNING: Rant]

Sometime made a post going 'Love the trans women in your life while they're still here'

Someone added 'Trans men and Nonbinary too!'

And this was the response.

My response: Cut this shit out, you're acting literally ridiculous.

First of all - no it's NOT an All Lives Matter moment.

ALL LIVES MATTER was created by white people who DON'T experience racism to silence the experiences of those who DO experience racism and die at the hands of it.

A transmasc or nonbinary person saying 'Us also!' is a not the same.

It's a group of people who DO experience transphobia adding to the experiences of those who ALSO experience transphobia.

It's A LOT MORE like a black person going 'BlackLivesMatter' and sometime commenting '#StopAsianHate too :)' and OP going 'wow fuck you read the room you're being racist.'

That's like a Gay person speaking out against homophobia and how it's wrong. And then a trans person says 'Transphobia too!' and suddenly it's 'Read the room. This isn't about y'all. Why do y'all have to bring yourself up always. This isn't about gender. Read the room-'

Sounds familiar to y'all? It should. I'm reading the room and the room is saying you just fucking hate another group of oppressed people lol

Another oppressed person who experiences the same violence as you adding their voice to your choir is NOT the same as white people using their privilege to silence others who experience racism when they themselves don't.

SECOND OF ALL - (tw death mention under cut)

YEAH THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO ADD 'Celebrate your trans brothers while there here' on a post you know..

considering a transmasc non-binary person got fucking beat to death on school grounds exactly a month ago.

Remember that??? The one whose death is being actively covered up by school, law, and state officials on a systemic scale??

Also - a fucking trans man from NJ is still missing as we speak (Elliot Ganiel)

But calling attention to that is like being a MRA??? Talking about a children deaths in a school bathroom and missing people are like being MRAs whose main concerns are women playing video games or some shit?

No. No it isn't.

Y'all misusing terms like MRA and yelling 'That's like all lives matter!!!' clearly show youdon't understand how oppression works in the slightest.

If you try to compare any white racist movement to an oppressed group of people - YTA.

One of us gets fucking killed with no justice, LGBTQ crisis line calls skyrocket, and when asked about it state officials say and I quote 'We don't want that filth in our state!!'

- and when we talk about it amongst people in our community it's 'read the room!!' or 'wow really MRA like'

Fucking bite me.

And before - 'Oh but they didn't have to put it on THAT post, they could've made their own'.

Did you not hear what I just said. A transmasc teen was beat to death and misgendered publically statewide.

Maybe transmascs would like to feel included by the community at this time? So they can feel safe? Safety in numbers? And maybe want to feel like the wider community cares when shit like this happens - which clearly.. y'all don't.

Cause when a transmasc kid is literally killed - and we see a post saying 'Love your transfemme friends whine they're here!' and add the same - only to be told to read the room - it tells us 'You only have a month or so to morn. They died last month? Why are you bringing it up now on a post about appreciating trans people before their death??? Read the room. That was for us only. Stop trying to hog all the attention'.

Like damn sorry for wanting to feel like my community would care if I got wiped off this fucking earth silly me. Silly us.

When we start the conversation on our own we're ignored. When we try to contribute our experiences to other conversations we're told to shut the fuck up and read the room and then compared to actual racists and sexists.

You constantly compare us to people who DO NOT face oppression - cis men and white people - in order to silence us, despite the fact you know we face oppression in ways both groups could never even imagine. You think you're slick. You're not.

BITE ME. HARD.

#'thats so aLl LiVeS mAtTeR'#as a black person: no it isn't and it's insulting you think that #'all lives matter' isn't just annoy derailment it's about the fact that white people are not opposed so they don't need ALM #ALL LIVES MATTER is fake solidarity because white ppl don't need the solidarity #Transmasc people DO #DO BETTER HOLY SHIT #a lot of y'all are fucking heartless and do not understand intersectionality in the goddamn slightest #no takesies backsies I said what I said #queer #ftm #transmasc #transandrophobia #transphobia #transgender #nonbinary #enby #transphobia mention #tw death #tw assault

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f1minist · 1 month

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Feminist Youtube Videos for Every Topic

A collection of feminist content, organized topically for ease.

Separatism:

on separatism and heterosexuality

why separatism is good

we're gonna die sometime. might as well be separatists.

stop choosing patriarchy

separatism is a choice

biggest impact, but most won't do it

on vetting men

the benefits of separatism are endless

men cannot be rehabbed

of course the slave is full of rage for her slave master

Lesbian Stuff:

who can use the word 'lesbian'?

on defending gay rights and spaces

what are lesbians supposed to do about het women?

gender critical lesbophobia

the constant rage for gold star lesbians

Political Lesbian Critique:

a simple breakdown of political lesbians

political lesbians... are you ok?

political 'lesbians' are not actually lesbians

i didn't 'come to lesbianism'. i was always here.

homosexuality is not a choice

for those who confuse polilez vs febfem

Comp Het Critique:

comp het isn't a thing

lesbihonest-art (RIP) on comp het

on lesbian experience, by @sunlight-beauty

on comp het, by @rakastiikeri

sespursongles (RIP) on comp het

Preferred Pronouns:

on 'cis' and other language

pronouns are rohypnol

preferred pronouns? no.

what are your pronouns?

Anti Make-Up / Beauty / Femininity:

3 years without makeup: 5 benefits i've experienced

sephora girls: why are ten year olds wearing make-up?

marked women

makeup isn't empowerment

why i stopped wearing makeup

bimbofication: a dangerously idiotic trend

empowerment? no.

give the middle finger to patiarchy

radfems in eyeliner

makeup infinity

on makeup and radical feminism

maintaining the status quo hurts all women

the audacity of the bare-faced woman

critiquing is not shaming

why do women do beauty?

choice feminism is a lie

actually gender critical

Anti Surogacy / Natalism / Procretion:

about mothers

forced pregnancy is involuntary servitude

egg "donation" is exploitation

on sperm giveaways

motherhood is not untouchable

homosexuality does not include reproduction

why i don't want kids

why i'm childfree

on procreation and patriarchy

Porn / Sex Work Commentary:

instagram vs porn

'sex-positive feminism' benefits men (and hurts women)

the influence of porn on the trans trend

on 'sex work'

speaking out on prostitution

'sex work is work'? no, not really.

let's stop acting like 'sex work' is empowering

is porn 'for women' okay?

porn is apocalyptical

'ethical porn' cannot exist

stop glamourizing 'sex work'

porn is the pinnacle of evil

is r/antiwork pro exploitation?

Trans Critical:

mainstream, revisionist, queer nonsense

why transwomen don't have 'female brains', from @ilistened2transwomen

why the hate?

why i decided to stop using the term 'transwoman'

on trans rights activists

TRAs loooove white men

the untouchable male creep - AGPs on parade, from @ilistened2transwomen

'intersectional' does not mean 'trans inclusive'

non-binary is deeply rooted in misogyny

25 questions for trans activists

women's sports are not a dumping ground for mediocre men

on "identifying as" women

stacia samaya on 'non-binary'

why sex is binary

trans rights, or trans privileges?

always chasing the dragon

27 ways in which trans activism is harmful

the actual human rights law

on 'trans women are women'

is transitioning ever 'the best' option?

autogynephilia - a brief overview

the rise of the heterosexual queer

phobia indoctrination

transing away the gay

5 tips for talking gender critical, by @runawaysiren940

the transing of language

autogynephilia, not dysphoria

rainbow-washed progressivism

transwomen are not women

how i became gender critical

autogynephilia explained

#feminism #youtube #transgender #lesbian tag

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demonic-shadowlucifer · 1 year

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Let's talk about Exclusionists and how they harm the community they claim to protect: A collection of hate.

Welp! Pride Month is just around the corner, and with it, exclusionist and TERF rhetoric. A few disclaimers before we get into this: -While this is about the harmful things Exclusionists have done, I would like to add that the Inclusionist Community can be *just* as guilty of doing the things I'm about to mention. -Furthermore, I believe that both the "Inclusionist" and "Exclusionist" labels are kind of pointless tbh, since being inclusive is just the bare minimum, y'know? -TERFs and their variants will also be mentioned since TERF Rhetoric is a frequent thing in Exclusionist communities, especially in Longsword Lesbian communities. -This is not intended to be a discourse post at all, this is mostly for educational purposes and awareness. Furthermore, I don't think being queer should be controversial at all.

-And of course, HEAVY trigger warning for the following: Exclusionism, TERF Rhetoric, Ableism, Suicide Bait, Encouragement of Violence and more. For this post, I have collected screenshots of many hurtful things exclusionists have said, and evidence to prove links to rhetoric from non-queer homophobes. These are screenshots from Tumblr, Twitter and Instagram as well. I give credit to @/animefacialreconitionsoftware01 on Tumblr, Exclusionist Struggle Tweets on Twitter, exclusmoment on Instagram and many others for these screenshots.

So, hang on, what even is an exclusionist?

An exclusionist is a group of mostly queer individuals who attempt to gatekeep the LGBTQ+ Community by claiming certain groups aren't truly queer or "not queer enough".

Exclusionist can be used on it's own, but also as an umbrella term for other groups, such as: Mspec Exclusionists (Battleaxe Bis) - A group of exclusionists that believe that other Multisexual labels outside of "Bi" are harmful, or that they're the same as bisexual. Their primary targets tend to be pansexuals and panromantics. Transmedicalists - A group of mostly exclusionists (Mostly trans people, but occasionally cis people), who believe that you must meet a certain number of requirements in order to be Transgender. While every transmedicalist has different views, the most common opinion is that dysphoria is required to be trans. One well known Transmedicalist is Kalvin Garrah. Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERF) - One of the most recognizable Exclusionist groups. While TERFs aren't inherently queer, their rhetoric can overlap with many other groups (Especially Longsword Lesbians and Transmedicalists on some occasions), so they get a mention here. There's not really much to say about them, outside of the fact that they're simply transmisic feminists. Their primary targets include trans women, but they may also target trans men, nonbinary folks, bisexuals and other mspec groups, intersex folks and sometimes ace/aro folks. The group also has *several* links to white supremacy. Longsword Lesbians - Speaking of Longsword Lesbians, this is a group that intends to fight lesbian erasure. This one might have had good intentions at first, but then started excluding other lesbians, becoming an exclusionist group, though I can't get much information on it's origins. Their primary targets include Nonbinary Lesbians, Mspec Lesbians and PNC Lesbians. They may also exclude GNC lesbians and trans lesbians, though not all of them do. Gravity Knife Gays - Exclusionists that target other gay men, primary nonbinary gays, Mspec Gays and PNC Gays. They may also target GNC gay men and trans gay men, though not all of them do. Aspec Exclusionists - I don't think I need to explain this one. So, why are they bad?

Well, there's evidence on how it's bad. Outside of erasure and gatekeeping harmless identities, a lot of exclusionists have a straight up habit of harassing other queer folks or calling for harassment. And there's plenty of evidence to prove it as well. I'm going to warn you, some of these contain suicide bait and slurs. Please proceed with caution if that sort of thing stresses you out. Some words are censored to avoid getting banned (and for my own comfort as well). Obviously, you have the ones that are simple gatekeeping, which is almost always bad.

(Image ID: A Tumblr post from user "alpinestag". The text reads "REAL lesbians don't date or sleep with men in their past lives! Let's be real, if your soul married a man 1000 years ago, you're bisexual"). I *was* originally going to give this person the benefit of the doubt and assume they were joking, but when I looked they had a *lot* of TERFy shit on their blog, so they were definitely serious.

(Image ID: A Tumblr post from user "didcourze". The text reads "on asexuals having sex, why would u want to have sex with someone if not attracted to them? i get it u still have a sex drive even if ure not attracted to people sexually but how could you justify using someone that u clearly have no interest in solely for sex, ur own pleasure, like that's so fucked??") And then, there's folks that will take it to more extreme levels, like these fellas. This one might not be calling for harassment, but it is *heavily* implied.

(Image ID: A screenshot from a Twitter post in dark mode that shows another screenshot of a Twitter user's bio, also in dark mode. Some information is blacked out in red. The primary tweet has the text "Fucking trenders. Excluse do your thing 💖" The screenshot of the twitter bio below the text contains many plant emojis and heart emojis, and shows the text "I genuinely want to be nice to you all", "hy/him/hers", "transmasch butch boi. OMNIGAY", "'TRENDER" on T" and other information about their location, age, followers and following and the join date. End ID). This one on the other hand... this is blatant harassment.

(Image ID: A screenshot of a Tumblr ask from an anonymous user. The message reads "transwomen are men and if they were really women you wouldnt have to be screaming it 100 times. also k yourself.". A word that starts with k is also blocked out in red. End ID). "Asexuals don't experience oppression" ....Are you sure about that?

(Image ID: A screenshot of a Tumblr dm by a user named "aphobickaito". Some words are blacked out in red. The messages read "D bitch.". Did your daddy r you so hard that your brain got fucked too and you think this dragon cake shit is funny? Because that's some shit". End ID) For those wondering, the last censored word is the r-slur. Some posts will also advocate for straight up violence, like these ones below.

(Image ID: A screenshot of a Tumblr post from a user named "aletheius". The text reads "I love being aphobic. if you don't want to bed the love of your life you should be beaten up and stuffed in a locker".)

(Image ID: A screenshot of a twitter message/post from user "gowonstiara". The text reads "asexuals deserve to d*3". End ID).

(Image ID: A screenshot of a twitter user's bio in dark mode. Some information and words are blocked out in either red or blue. A scribble of blue has the words "Irrelevant stuff here". The rest of the bio reads "k all bi/pan lesbians". End ID).

(Image ID: A screenshot of a twitter post from user "brontydownunder" in dark mode. The text reads "'They're putting asexuals in concentration camps in China' good. Put more". End ID).

(Image ID: An screenshot of a post containing an image of a cropped Asexual flag. The text on the flag is slightly edited, and reads "START KILLING US". End ID) A lot of exclusionist posts also have a *lot* of suicide bait in them as well, such as these ones shown below. Again, scroll with caution if you are sensitive to these sorts of things. There is also an f-slur being used with malicious intent in one of these.

(Image ID: A twitter post from user "beebies" in dark mode, with the two e's replaced by 3. Part of the text has been blocked out with red. The text reads "if u go by they/them go k ll urself no offense lol 😍". End ID). I was going to censor the slur in this one, but decided not to just to show how malicious exclusionists really can be.

(Image ID: A screenshot of a tumblr notification. Part of the text is blacked out in red. The text reads "net-angel reblogged your post: asexual faggots sh t yourself challenge". End ID) And then there's some that will just straight up admit to hating certain groups and even harassing them. Others will admit to being fucking proud of their bigotry.

(Image ID: A screenshot of a twitter post from "sinboundhaibane" in dark mode. The text reads "i hate trans men, yes. if you understood the material realities of the situation, you would hate them too".)

(Image ID: A screenshot of a twitter post from an unknown Twitter user. The text reads "does anyone have edits they want views on i'm about to bully a bi/pan lesbian supporter 🏃‍♀️". End ID)

(Image ID: Two tweets from Twitter users "pipcrgrace" and "ssapphrodite". The text on the first tweet reads "just say you hate he him lesbians and move on...", the text on the second tweet has four variations of "i hate he/him lesbians" and "i ha" at the end. End ID).

(Image ID: A Tumblr post from user "jwjdhdjsksks". The text reads "The panphobes are out in full force today and I'm so proud". End ID). It should be obvious on why this is bad. Advocating for harassment or straight up violence, or telling someone to hurt themselves over their identity is NEVER a good thing no matter how you look at it. No buts, whats or ifs. And that's not even the end of this either. There's also some exclusionists who will restate the *same exact* rhetoric that Anti-LGBTQ+ people spew around. Here's a look.

TERF rhetoric (And invalidation of nonbinary identities)

(Image ID: Three tweets from three users with their names blocked by red, yellow and teal respectively. The screenshot is taken in light mode. The first tweet reads "I've spoken to many girls on here who did transition due to bullying/pressure. Lesbians are also attracted to girls." The second reads The two aren't mutually exclusive, either. Some trans men and trans women identify as lesbians, too.". The third tweet reads "Lesbians are female only.". End ID). Hmmm, I wonder where I've heard THIS before.

(Image ID: A Tumblr post from an individual who's username is pixeled out. The text reads "I really hate the Blue's Clues pride video. They are literally forcing their mogai shit on to little kids. Why do they have to feed kids bs like "nonbinary gender identities" and "pansexuality" on to children!? Why? (Just to clarify: I am not against teaching children about LGBT stuff, I am against teaching children bs)." End ID). Some will admit to straight up misgendering people as well. Again, seems familiar?

(Image ID: A Tumblr post from user "feminismnightmare". The text reads "Hi if you claim to be trans and tell me you're not dysphoric I'm going to use your biological pronouns". End ID). *More* TERF rhetoric (I would also like to point out that the saying "men are trash" is almost always a red flag, no matter the intent, due to it's high usage with TERFs).

(Image ID: A screenshot from an unknown Twitter user. The text reads "Lesbianism is understandable because men are trash. Gayness is fair because trash like trash. Bisexual = greedy. Trans = mental illness. All the others.. nonsense". End ID)

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, a *LOT* of Exclusionists I've seen are also incredibly ableist and racist as well.

Many Exclusionists claim that some queer groups harm neurodivergent folks and POC, but... are we *really* sure about that?

(Image ID: A Twitter post from user "annadoescare". The screenshot is taken in dark mode. The text reads "i don't care about your mental illness. it's not my problem. stop making up these genders that embarrass the lgbt". End ID)

(Image ID: Two tweets from two users with usernames blocked out in red and yellow respectively. The screenshot is taken in dark mode. The first tweet reads "There are lesbians who like men. There are lesbians who are men. There are lesbians who are straight. There are lesbians who are bisexual. There are all this and more". The second tweet reads "This is why I hate autistics". End ID). ...Excuse me but what the actual FUCK. /neg

(Image ID: A Tumblr comment from user "trans-wojak". The text reads "being racist towards whites won't change slavery" with an analog winking emoji at the end. End ID). Straight up eugenics, TERFism or both? You decide! (I'm also slightly convinced this person has internalized ableism as well, but that's not really my say).

(Image ID: A Tumblr post from user "posttraumaticspacelesbian-blog". Part of text has been blocked out with red. The text reads "as a disabled womon i would like to point out that all disabled men should b k ed" End ID.)

Some will also compare some queer groups to arguably worse shit. Exhibit A:

(Image ID: A post from Twitter user "sinboundhaibane" in dark mode. The text reads "new poem: bi lesbianism is a fascist dogwhistle eat my shit". End ID). Exhibit B:

(Image ID: A post from Tumblr user "postmodern-baseball". The text reads "cops aren't class traitors, nonbinary lesbians are." End ID) And there's a SHITTON more too. But I could never do it justice in this post, especially with TERFs. Now, before you exclusionists come at me with "But NOT ALL OF US ARE LIKE THAT!" or "Inclusionists do this too!" First off, I am fully aware that inclusionists are guilty of some of these as well, which is why I don't use the inclusionist label. But that's besides the point, I don't care if you're not like the folks in this post. I don't care if not every exclusionist is like this. THIS is what Exclusionism promotes. THIS is what Exclusionism encourages. Exclusionism is always going to encourage harassment and infighting. No matter how civil you are, no matter how "chill" you are, no matter how "nice you are, it doesn't matter in the end. By excluding other queer folks from queer spaces, you are actively condoning harassment. No, I don't want to hear any excuses. Exclusionism has and always will be harmful to other queer communities. Still don't believe me? Here's some videos that show and explain the exact same thing, as well as some other educational videos thrown into the mix. Transmedicalism: An Investigation. Breaking my Silence on Kalvin Garrah: Part One, Part Two , Part Three. Inside a Cult: A Series about Gender Criticals. Why is Queer Discourse so Toxic?

Addressing my "Lesbophobia" - A Rant about Mspec Lesbian Exclusionism.

What are TERFs?

The problem with Radical Feminism.

And of course, here's my Mspec Lesbian Exclusionism analysis post.

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catgirlforeskin · 1 year

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Hey, I just saw the "(Trans) Men are oppressed for being men. Its just that the most visible men in society usually aren't." post and I'm kinda confused by your response - can you elaborate?

My first impulse was to agree w the post and then I crashed into your reply at the end and wondered if I'd missed something important along the way

Yeah, my main issue with it is that it’s willfully misinterpreting how oppression happens so it can write misogyny out of existence.

No man is oppressed for being a man. Trans men are oppressed for being trans, gay men for being gay, disabled men for their disability, and so on and so forth.

Do gay men sometimes experience homophobia in a different way than lesbians? Absolutely. But the reason lesbophobia is a term is because homophobia and misogyny are intersecting forms of oppression that lesbians face, and that isn’t the case for gay men. They’re oppressed for being gay, not for being gay and for being men.

The same goes for misogynoir or transmisogyny. Black men experience racism differently than black women, but black women face racism and misogyny and those intersect and compound each other.

We live under patriarchy, men are an oppressor class and women are an oppressed class. We also live under white supremacy and in a systemically homophobic and transphobic society, so the same applies there, with white people, straight people, and cis people being members of an oppressor class.

The reason intersectionality is important is so we can understand how these systems interact with each other. Gay men and disabled men are still men and benefit from that, while gay women and disabled women don’t benefit from being women. But being white or able-bodied does give you benefits.

I assumed this was all like, basic stuff for activism, but a lot trans men on this site hate the idea of intersectionality because they benefit materially from patriarchy in ways that trans women don’t, and they don’t like admitting it, or admitting that they’re capable of being misogynist.

It’s the driving force behind all “men are oppressed too” “reverse racism against white people is real” type shit. It’s people who want the benefits of being an oppressor class but don’t want to admit they’re part of it or that it exists.

#transmisogyny #this got longer than planned lol

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runs-red · 2 months

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𝑹𝒆𝒅𝒔 𝑷𝒊𝒏𝒏𝒆𝒅

Discourse blog for discourse stuff. Lots of reblogs aren't tagged. Also, I don't necessarily agree with every single part of the posts I rb, esp the language used in fiction discourse.

Inbox is open for civil discourse.

No DNI but:

If you think fiction discourse is just about fictional characters that are minors and fictional incest, unironically use the term "proshit", this isn't the blog for you.

Pro-fiction. This probably doesn't mean what you think it does, don't force your assumptions onto me.

Tag: reds.shipcourse

I have a lot of opinions on fiction and can't fit them all into here. In short snippet, I don't believe fiction has a to one:one impact on reality (reading can influence you, doesn't mean it's going to make you replicate it) and that sexual content isn't more likely to corrupt you than gore and violence in fiction.

I can't believe I need to say this but, no, this does not mean I support real life abuse or condone the actions of your abusers!

Pro-endogenic. Plurality exists outside of DID/OSDD and endogenic plurality needs to stop being made about DID.

Tag: reds.syscourse

I don't really have an issue with people being anti-endogenic by itself. You can believe whatever you want. I have an issue with hateful people.

I don't use the terms endogenic or traumagenic for my system but sometimes I'll refer to us as endogenic simply for convenience.

In queer discourse I mostly talk about gender stuff. LGB discourse isn't really my ball park.

Tag: reds.queercourse

Misandry (the powerful ingrained hatred against men) is not a real thing. I'm just getting that out there. If you think I sound like a men's rights activist, you probably aren't listening to what I'm actually trying to say (which is probably something about how gender roles hurt everyone).

I'm an altersex gay person. I have a hard time dunking on people's identities when they seem genuine, so I'm an inclusionist.

Anti-Radqueer. Ex-radqueer who now thinks the community is bad, here's a post on that.

Just the general discourse tag: reds.discourse

I think theres a lack of understanding around the issue.

Radqueer is the name of the community. Transids and paraphiles can be seperate and not be "a radqueer thing".

A lot of radqueers are genuinely/'cis' traumatised, mentally ill, POC, and disabled. Even if they were lying about this, I don't think these things interfere with the real issues with the community at all. DIarace/trace has the same issues whether or not the person is white, transED is still harmful if the person has an ED.

I don't think this is "for fun" for a lot of radqueers. It's a complicated issue, but I think a lot of them are doing it for reasons like mental illness or searching for a community.

Overall I feel like it's full of vulnerable younger people (as well as predators, not a good mix) and the issue should be more about helping people than prosecuting.

#reds.vent #reds.syscourse #reds.discourse #reds.queercourse #reds.shipcourse

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stickthisbig · 8 months

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I fucking loathe hearing "this is why I hate musical theater." You know why I loathe it? Because I've loved musical theater since I was a child, and sometimes I hate musical theater.

I hate stunt casting, and I hate people who complain about stunt casting. I hate that everyone dismisses it as the gayest of professions when it runs on white gay cis men who are pretending to be straight discriminating against people who are browner and/or queerer than them. I hate that the best way to be a gay star is to be a handsome masc with only the tiniest, tiniest fruit flavor. I hate that lesbians have just been dropped from the discussion. I hate that Hamilton doesn't mention Cato Howe. I hate that every show about/starring people who aren't straight and white has to be all things to all people or completely dismissed. I hate all that fucking bullshit that happened on Jagged Little Pill. I hate reading yet another article from a gay man who has been horribly betrayed by the theater because he didn't pretend to be straight. I hate performing Sondheim. I hate it when people only think music is erudite when it is bad to listen to. I hate that Kimberly Akimbo ever fucking got made, let alone in the 2020's, and I hate that Broadway had the audacity to congratulate themselves on it. I hate that A Strange Loop is such a good idea but sounds like it needs two more editing passes. I hate that Steve Martin didn't finish his EGOT because of Lin-Manuel Miranda, who didn't need it. I hate Love Is Love merch. I hate people who blame all the problems of the theater on Lin-Manuel Miranda because he's the only musical theater professional they can name. I hate that the musician's union will never let us have an electronica musical, and I hate that the reason is that producers cannot be trusted to do the right thing. I hate that my favorite musical falls into antisemitic tropes when it could have done better. I hate watching Idina Menzel sing. I hate the reworked version of "Schadenfreude". I hate what happened to Jeff Whitty. I hate that my favorite King Herod is Chris Moyles. I hate people who defend the Bridgerton musical. I hate having to learn things from TikTok. I hate that Diana was half of the smoke test for proshot streaming. I hate that there are hundreds of shows with archived recordings that none of us will ever, ever, ever see. I hate that there's never been a credible attempt at theater as a streaming service or event cinema, even though opera pulled it off. I hate 1776; I don't have a reason, I just think it sucks out loud and I've never made it all the way through.

But whenever someone says "this is why I hate musical theater", they mean that it's embarrassing to watch a bunch of faggots prance around and burst into song for no reason, and what's worse, theater people have the unrepentant gall to take it seriously.

That's why I like musical theater. Get on my level or get out.

#me me me me me #this wasn't actually motivated by a new event #nor any of my mutuals #I just got het up

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musical-chick-13 · 1 year

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Okay, no, sorry, I’m still mad about this. “Be critical of the media you consume and examine why you react to it in the way that you do, support marginalized and stigmatized identities.” Yeah, until it’s about mental illness.

A woman (or even man, if he’s deemed over-emotional) makes music about suffering from mental illness and people just go, “What are they complaining about, that’s so immature, hashtag wangst.” (And then, sometimes, inexplicably, if the mentally ill woman gets better and writes happier music, they then talk about how artistically bankrupt she is now and that she should go back to hating herself.) People LOVE cis white pRoBLeMaTiC (straight) fictional men until they are realistically mentally ill, in which case they’re “whiny” and “insufferable” and deserve to die violently, apparently (or, if fandom is merciful, they’re ignored). (And then they celebrate when they DO inevitably get killed off.) “Do your duty and watch [thing I, mc13, personally find insufferable] For The (white) Gays because it has Gays.” Sure, will you watch c4 Pure, the ONLY show specifically about OCD, then? (No, the answer is no, it’s always no.)

I can’t get anyone to watch Doom Patrol. I couldn’t get people (in general-I did convince a few irl friends thank GOD) to watch Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. One of the most popular and acclaimed shows right now has a character with schizophrenia who was turned into the Big Bad Villain for no fucking reason. One of the most commonly-cited examples of Iconic™ queer media involves a mentally ill man being broken over and over and over again before The Ship™ can reasonably happen. DW introduced a major character who was at one point suffering from mental illness in her past, AND THEN ALL MENTION OF THIS WAS COMPLETELY DROPPED IN THE FUTURE, WITH NO BEARING ON ANYTHING TO THE POINT WHERE I FORGOT IT EVEN EXISTED??!?!? R*tched was a thing that existed despite the Sad Sympathetic Backstory treatment being IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION OF WHAT PURPOSE THIS CHARACTER SERVED IN One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. THEY GAVE. A SAD WOOBIE VILLAIN TREATMENT. TO THE /LITERAL PERSONIFICATION/ OF ABLEISM. THAT IS HER FUNCTION. TO EXIST AS A SYMBOL OF ALL THE WAYS SOCIETY OPPRESSES THE DISABLED AND MENTALLY ILL.

I am!!! Literally!!!!! The only one!!!!!!!!! Complaining about these things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has said ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one is talking about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m so tired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#*OBLIGATORY COMMENT ABOUT HOW REPRESENTATION/FICTIONAL DISABILITY IS NOT THE END ALL BE ALL OF ACTIVISM*#*OTHER OBLIGATORY COMMENT ABOUT HOW LIKING '''pRoBLeMaTiC''' CONTENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD PERSON OR A HORRIFYING ABLEIST*#THIS WAS JUST ME GETTING MAD IT'S NOT THAT DEEP #In the Vents #the real horror was the ableism we found along the way #like. in some of these cases yes I /KNOW/ it was not meant to come across like that!!! but y'all accept that as a valid type of media #criticism when it's about anything else!!!!!!!! just not this apparently????!?!!!!#I do not understand how there is such an ABYSMAL treatment of the subject of mental illness in fiction when this is the #memetic Mental Illness Website like genuinely I do not get it I am scaling my walls and banging pots and pans and growling like a rabid dog #IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE MESSAGE A STORY IS TELLING YOU GOTTA APPLY IT HERE TOO #I AM ALSO THE LAST PERSON TO SAY THAT YOU'VE GOTTA ADD A DISCLAIMER OF SOMETHING'S LAUNDRY LIST OF FLAWS BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT #BUT JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ON SOME LEVEL EVEN IF IT'S JUST TO YOURSELF THAT THINGS HAVE FLAWS #YOU'VE GOTTA BE AWARE OF SHIT #WHEN WILL WE HAVE THE OUTCRY OVER BURY YOUR DISABLED THAT WE DO OVER BYG (WHICH IS ALSO BAD BTW)#I GUARANTEE YOU WE WON'T BE GETTING A SEPARATE FUCKING CON OVER FANDOM OUTCRY THAT'S FOR SURE #I'm making a rule: if you can prove to me that you've started cxgf after reading this and/or if you can prove to me #that you've watched pure (channel 4/hbo max-the one with charly clive) I'll write a fic for you #let's see if I get sniped for criticizing both the beloved sacred mads show AND the plane crash girls show #if I see ONE more comment about how either of those is a perfect show that Gets What All The People Want I will in fact spontaneously #combust.#(and before you @ me yes I have any and all permutations of show tags blocked I'm not just being mean to be mean)#my god remember what happened the last time I tried to talk about this a;lsdfkajs;ldfkj #good thing I turned off anonymous asks!!#this is not even getting into some of the SMALLER fandoms #like I do not ever want to think about the takes I saw for ctrlz EVER again

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runthepockets · 8 months

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Tbh I'm really tired of battle of the sexes wars. Like, if it isn't cis men and women arguing over who has it harder, it's trans men and women doing the same shit. It's article after article of (rightfully) angry women talking about swearing off dating and sex forever due to dudes being so perverted and invasive, and the worst men you've ever met having their voices amplified in retaliation, both further alienating the women whose approval and affection we so desperately crave and making it harder for other men to talk about legitimate anxieties and struggles we have navigating the world. I hate that articles about high suicide rates and high rates of isolation and depression in men has brought out women who say things like "oh wah wah men's feewings I cannot BELIEVE I have to take RESPONSIBILITY for this CRAP again men are lonely cus they SUCK MEN'S FAILURES are the reason they're miserable", even when none of the studies are implicitly or explicitly blaming women for this problem (and even if they were, there's gotta be a way to deescelate / point out the entitlement of these accusations without victim blaming).

I hate that I end up dating and befriending a lot of feminist women who routinely encourage men to be vulnerable, and then my vulnerability immediately triggers an argument or a shitty dissmissive attitude or me being accused of manipulation, and I hate that those same women having (understandable) biases against men have gotten me up in arms reacting in pretty similar ways. I hate the way men talk about women's bodies when women aren't around. I hate the way women talk about male sexuality when there are no men around. It all feels awful. And I hate that voicing this to queer friends hasn't really gotten me anything but "lol thank god I'm not straight" or something of that nature. I hate how straight relationships have the potential to be just as beautiful and vindicating and empowering as any other human relationship but we're all barred by socioeconomic factors and poor / vastly differing communication skills.

This is why I got so into Men's Liberation two years ago. It gives me a space to vent my feelings and greivances as a straight guy without feeling like a total jerkoff while also being sympathetic to feminist ideals and views. It's very grounding. I can practice run and analyze my greivances after properly grieving in a safe and educated space, then I can approach the women in my life without the cotton between my ears and my defenses lowered instead of immediately shutting down at the first sign of discomfort. It's why I'm so loud about a lot of these issues; I believe everything is connected, and if men and women's lives and experiences and socioeconomic statuses are so deeply intertwined with each other under cishet capitalist white supremacist patriarchy, they need to be intertwined in the process of abolishing it, too. But I can't do that with my trauma and anger dictating my politics, nor can the women that find themselves in my sphere. It's also part of why I stopped hanging out in woman dominated spheres as often; while I'm not going to deny women their right to vent, the anti-male sentiment was debilitating, and I deserve a life free of any more neurosis around my manhood than I already may have (there was also nothing there for me anymore anyway, being a straight dude and all).

I think this is another thing I like about being straight; as nice as it I'm sure it is to never have to worry about these seemingly trivial aspects of "straight culture", and as much as I support gay people having spaces to feel at home in their own skin and to vent about their oppressors, it also seems like it sometimes blinds you to the fact that the "opposite gender" isn't really going anywhere (or that the opposite gender even exists, generally) and gay seperatism isn't a realistic or helpful solution, even for other gay and trans people.

#men's liberation #chronicles

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menderash · 1 year

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Continuation of my tags on my last post, but I do find it helpful to do thought experiments wherein I say to myself, okay, what if terfs are right about biological reality? What does that change about my beliefs and activism? Let's follow that line of thought and see where it ends up.

First of all, I have to discredit my own lived experiences as a trans person who knows and loves and even hates some other trans people. I have to forget that intersex people exist and like to be treated as people, not medical tragedies. Bam, done, okay, we're now prepared to pretend terf logic is sound.

Terf logic dictates that biological sex is an immutable binary. (This is easily disproven by peer reviewed modern science past fifth grade, but shh, we're pretending, remember?) Alright, immutable binary. This binary means that trans women are really men, and trans men are really women.

Now here's where the thought experiment runs out of disbelief to suspend. Because where in terfish Biological Reality does it make room for Social Reality? Because yes, you can group people together based on genital configuration. That's about where that ends. Because when you blame trans women for the violence of cis men, you have zero actual statistical evidence to confirm your bias, because you are incorrectly grouping SOCIAL CLASSES of people together.

I think of it this way; would terfs blame a brown or black man for the KKK? The founders are also men, after all. Hold a gay man accountable for the homophobia perpetuated by straight men? Logic dictates not; because the social categories between white man and man of color, between straight man and gay man, overlap little enough that the minority has no real power in the perpetuation of racialized or homophobic prejudice. Similarly, as a minority, trans women cannot and, proven statistically, DO NOT reliably wield the same power as the social class that oppresses them. This is observable sociological fact. We love facts here, right radfems?

Now, of course, we can allow for nuance. (Most terfs don't like things like nuance, but we're still playing pretend.) Some may say "but if a trans person doesn't transition, they retain the privileges and/or oppression of their biological sex." True! If a mixed race or light skinned person of color dyes their hair or wears contacts, they could technically access white privilege. If a gay person never leaves the closet, they access straight privilege. If a Jewish person converts to xtianity, they get christian privilege. And if a cis woman is rich, she gains class privilege. If she's white, she has white privilege. And so on. (These nuances are addressed in something called intersectional feminist theory. You should check it out sometime.)

Anyway, let's get back to "if you do [x], you'll still get [y] privilege." This is where it gets tricky, because how do you ethically dictate that someone has to act or look a certain way in order to gain broader societal approval? Certainly you can't CODIFY it into LAW, because we've all agreed that it's overreach for the government to tell you what you can and cannot do with and to your own body, right? So, you'd have to start leaning into what the conservative right does; associate those aesthetics or lifestyles with unsupported claims of moral degeneracy. Gays wanna diddle your kids. Brown ppl wanna steal your money. Transes wanna watch you piss. But that'd be ridiculous, because terfs aren't CONSERVATIVES, and they love FACTS, right?

Right?

#just a fun liddol thot experiment #if youre radfem aligned have you considered: listening to vagina owners outside of your own culture? listening to two spirit folks?#researching how sex history and race history intersect? and maybe not using racist language all yhe time?

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adhbabey · 2 years

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I want to love women and talk about women without transphobes and radical feminists taking over and taking very queer love out of context.

I fucking hate women who try to co-opt my very gay, sometimes sexual (if theres greyspec ppl reblogging this, just ignore this part), often times unpalatable, love of women, as a way to further white supremacist/hate-fueled agendas.

Like, can I have posts about how women are hot, without people talking about how "miserable and awful" it is to be a woman and how men are "evil" and responsible for very atrocity ever?

Like... Maybe I want to reblog a post about women without having to search for fucking crypto terfs. Terfs fucking ruin queer spaces. Terfs ruin wlw/sapphic spaces.

Stop co-opting gay/queer experiences to talk about gender essentialism and similar bullshit.

Also, stop co-opting gay/queer experiences if you're cishet. If I hear one more fucking cis straight woman talking about how they "love women" and get offended when I suggest that she is possibly bi, I will punch her in the goddamn nose and knee her in the gut. I want to make out, hold hands with, and/or cuddle with a woman, we are not the same.

(this is NOT about closeted queer people.)

#babey posts #queer relationships #queer #wlw #sapphic #women loving women #nblw #queer love #stop taking my love out of context #i am not like you #there's this one person i know that really says she likes women but she says she's straight #whenever i try to suggest that she could be bi #WHICH IS IT MF??? BRUHHH #do you actually like women or do you like the idea of women

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limeade-l3sbian · 2 months

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i am extremely anxious bc on one hand, i never held any hatred for trans ppl/trans women but i do have a brain and so i do know what a male and a female is, and i also know what a lesbian and a gay man is, so i understand that most cis lesbians only want pussy bc the act of sex and sexual attraction is centered around the body and same-sex attraction is a real thing. however, i feel like im being gaslit every time i interact with the average (usually white) queer person bc i have to pretend like i dont know what i know, like i dont have eyes, like homosexuality doesnt exist, like biology isnt real actually, bc if i dont, i’m labeled a bigot. im tired.

i believe that trans ppl deserve to live in peace. however i don’t believe that homosexual cis men and women have to fuck them to validate their identities. and i feel like the average off-line person believes this. i feel like the average person both believes in trans rights and also maintains that homosexual people are same SEX attracted. hell, i have a nonbinary friend that only likes pussy.

idk why i’m ranting in ur inbox. mainly i’m frustrated. im frustrated bc i don’t see gay men being policed the way lesbians are being policed when it comes to how they speak about their attraction. i’ve never heard someone refer to males as ppl with dicks. and i’m frustrated bc i can’t call it misogyny without being accused of victimizing myself as a cis woman. and im even more tired that black women are always used as talking points during these trans debates.

it’s making me upset bc i feel like most trans folks don’t hold these beliefs. i’ve seen a trans man go on reddit and admit that he doesn’t enjoy being in the community bc of these backward beliefs and policing and sometimes predatory behavior, and i’ve seen other trans folks admit that they agree. yet i have to pretend like i don’t see it? like what we call ‘queer theory’ doesn’t have real ideological, misogynistic, and often racist issues? and i can’t call this without being called a terf when i don’t even hate trans women? i just want women to be able to talk about the oppression they face without giving several disclaimers (and yes, this includes cis women bc they still face oppression like hello), and i want black women to stop being used as talking points when we’re real people, and i want everybody to leave lesbians alone…

anyway sorry for going off. i’m drunk and thinking a lot and i feel like this is where i can get my thoughts out without being shot on sight.

No apology needed. I'm just sorry I got to this so late. Talk your shit, girl.

#ask

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calzonekestis · 2 years

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No, tumblr is not glitching. There is a a screen shot of a Marvel gif set in an unrelated fandom’s tag.

Tis a screen shot so as not to derail the notes of OP’s post with said unrelated fandom’s discourse.

If OP would like me to delete the screenshot and simply leave the link to the original post, I will happily do so.

It’s just.

I’ve been thinking a lot about just. The misogyny of fandom. Not particularly the Marvel fandom, or Stranger Things fandom, but like. Any fandom?

Cause despite what gatekeeping dudebros may want to believe - so much of Fandom culture thrives on women. Them and their creativity, and their engagement.

And I realize that as a cis man I should tread carefully asking this, but then… why is it that fandom is so misogynist towards actresses just doing their jobs?

The likes of Emily VanCamp and Grace Van Dien get viscous attacks online because people don’t like their characters, their relationships to their male faves. The actress merely living and breathing in real life is somehow a threat to their favorite fictional pairing.

Meanwhile, like. Joe Quinn talks about Eddie and Chrissy, people ignore him and say he doesn’t know what he’s saying. That he’s being pressured into saying it.

David Harbour talks about how he read Jopper fanfic, and how he and Winona adlibbed their second kiss. He’s a King for this. Fandom loves him.

Grace Van Dien just shared cute fanart to her social media accounts. She talked about how she and her scene partner approached the scene.

That’s literally all this poor woman has ever done. And suddenly she’s labeled the antichrist.

Like, ok, the screenshotted gif set. I like Sebastian Stan. I like that he Ships the Thing. I’m not saying we should tear him apart for shipping the thing - not at all, by any means.

But like. Can you imagine how opposite the response would be if he was a woman?

Saying he wants his character to marry/date/sleep with a dude? Making sexual innuendos?

Can you imagine if Grace said any such things pertaining to Eddie? I mean I know she was put on the spot with that Date/Marry/Kill game at various cons, but like.

She wouldn’t, because she has more tact - but if she was like “yeah I wish Chrissy had lived so she and Eddie could bone.” Like. If those were her words.

Like if she didn’t go all “be a weird/uncouth couple” about it, but if she was just like “girlie deserves to get it.”

I’d be snickering and cheering her on, frankly. I wouldn’t see anything wrong with that. Dear God though, could you imagine how twitter would react?

Like. Come on. Again, we’ve seen how the woman is treated just for sharing fanart and talking about how she approached her craft. If she did any of that?

Could you imagine?

A white man can get away with it, though. Be praised for it. Why is that? Is it because he’s conventionally attractive?

Like. Is that it?

Cause like. Again. Women hold fandom up on their shoulders like they’re Atlas. So why is misogyny so damn prevalent, especially when it comes to shipping culture?

I’m not even getting into acting like you’re some progressive ally just because you have a slash ship - because I think I covered that in previous posts. Its not actually caring about m|m or our representation. In many instances, you’re just horny. Or you just want to fetishize us as your “uwu soft gays”.

No, I mean like. Not even talking about the erasure if female characters, the shaming people for shipping m|f ships… why is it that the women making the content like ships? Why can’t they validate them? When you love it when the men do - at least, when they validate the ones you like. The women though, they better just keep their mouths shut. They’re so creepy, I bet they’re lusting after their costar! We aren’t projecting at all!

Again. Cis male. So like. I’m self aware enough to know I’m maybe not the best person to call this out/the person who should call it out but. Does fandom hate women? Cause it sure seems that way sometimes, and like. That makes little to no sense to me, not only because ayyy women 😩🤌 but like.

This is your house. Women built this house. Y’all are the ones who keep it running, it would be an even uglier and much more boring place without you. A patriarchal white echo chamber of dudebros complaining about a Star War.

So like. I’m sorry, but the shaming actresses for shipping a thing, cyber bullying them for daring to breathe your white blorbo man’s air.

While also building that white blorbo man on a weird little Hey Arnold style shrine in the back of your closet, so to speak.

It makes no sense to me. Y’all should be better than this. I know that you are better than this, the majority of you - that it is just a heinous vocal minority who attack actresses online but like.

What the fuck is up with that, pray tell?

I’m not blaming all this bullshit on all women - that’s stupid and I have more self awareness.

Again, white man. If I blamed you personally for this, you could blame me personally for like… I don’t know, nearly every horrible historical event in the history of history.

I don’t mean to play the blame game here, I just. I don’t understand.

Like you can tell it to me why this happens - I understand what all the words mean. Jealousy and bitterness and internalized misogyny. Yeah, I know, that all checks out.

It still. Doesn’t make sense. Going back over a decade to dig through a person’s trauma and recovery, their posts from when they were a minor… doctoring them in an attempt at defamation and libel.

All that. Over fictional characters. Over ships. Over your obsession with an actor who doesn’t know you exist and if he did would be disgusted by how you’re treating his friend and coworker.

Nothing about any of that makes sense.

#hellcheer #grace van dien #grace is loved #chrissy appreciation day

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souryogurt64 · 2 years

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i think some people never get out of the bandom dome because pete never gets lauded for anything, especially not his sexuality. recently there was a whole video calling what he (and other musicians of his sphere) used to do on stage "queerbaiting" and calling his lyrics "misogynistic" while the same person talked about the importance of whatever harry styles thinks he's doing (nevermind the fact that they kept forgetting how race and sexuality play such a big role in pete's work and just called him part of the white straight cis man entourage). i wouldn't even say get out of bandom and take a look, you can just look at mcr fans who want to distance themselves from fob with an air of superiority about who's the queerest frontman in bandom lol. pete was never praised for being not straight, and acting like he is, simply because some bisexual 17 year olds on tumblr feel happy they have someone they can relate to, somehow equals him getting any kind of praise or respect is ignoring how most men of color get treated about their sexuality

Yeah I do think Pete can be sexist and has a history of treating women terribly but I don't really think any Fall Out Boy lyrics cross a line, I don't think TTTYG rises to the level of being misogynistic. I do think some of the things being conveyed in *67 and My Heart Is The Worst Kind Of Weapon are a bit concerning given his history but those are just kinda obscure demos, they aren't like actual songs anyone is referring to when they talk about it. Additionally, Patrick wrote a lot of TTTYG. Even in terms of songs that are """misogynistic""" it's like art or whatever, it's often not literal, I don't think there should be like .... a ban on "misogynistic" or "problematic" lyrics or that the songs are inherently bad and not good or whatever.

With literally any celebrity whatsoever that has said they'd prefer not to explicitly identify their sexuality publicly or spoken in ambiguous terms about it-- that's not queerbaiting, that's a real person, and real people don't need to have a certain number of oppression points to be touchy with their friends or wear the clothes they want to or write gay or sexually ambiguous lyrics/books/tv/whatthefuckever. Even if they do say "I am straight," and almost no celebs accused of ""queerbaiting"" do, that's still a real person and real people experiment and sometimes experience feelings they aren't sure about.

I do think there's some weight to the idea that actual gay/trans artists do not get the same praise/recognition as people who are ambiguous but that like.... doesn't mean it's the fault of artists who choose to be ambiguous. When I was younger and figuring out I liked girls my mom and therapist accused me of attention-seeking and faking it and mental illness and doing it to get guys to like me-- not that being gay was mental illness, but the doing it for attention part because I didn't seem "really gay" and there were actual gay people out there suffering. It was just a shitty way to treat a kid that was getting called slurs at school. And I wonder how many Twitter leftists who froth at the mouth with rage and rail against band guys or singers or whatever wearing dresses or guys painting their nails black are going to turn out to treat kids in their lives that way because in 20 years when theyre a mom they think their 12 year old son is only wearing a skirt/painting his nails to "prey on young women and make them think hes safe" or whatever freak opinions people pretend are woke

I mean like I think Pete has done some stuff that's really, really not cool and if anyone wants to hate him or hate me for posting about him that's fine with me. But I think because MCR do way more "playing characters" and keeping their personal lives separate and Gerard does not use social media at all people are able to project their ideals onto him and they/Gerard "get away" with more. I also think bands are like their fans and MCR are kinda pretentious so that's to be expected.

I also do think the only people calling him bi are 17 year olds on Tumblr and the only people complaining about him or even talking about him at all in 2022 are former 17 year olds on Tumblr but anyway yeah the race thing is shitty, I agree with that.

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hjellacott · 1 year

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The term TERF is simply stupid (and it's completely absurd to think otherwise).

You can't be a Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist, just like you can't be a White-Exclusionary BLM activist, a Straight-Exclusionary lesbian, or a Cis-Exclusionary Trans activist. The reason is that these are focus groups, meaning, collectives that put the FOCUS on a category that's under threat, that needs a bit of an extra nudge, extra protection. Being a feminist doesn't mean you're excluding anyone, it just means you're FOCUSING on feminist, femme-related, female, problems, activism, issues, laws, and so on.

It's like, would you criticise BLM because they don't talk anything about white people's issues? No. Because it's fucking ABSURD. That's not what the group is for. Therefore, why the hell would you criticise Feminism for not talking about issues about people that do not, by their own choice, identify as females? Feminists aren't excluding trans people, trans people exclude themselves by not identifying as females. It's all in the prefix "fem". Much like Men are "excluded" from feminism by... not being females? Have you even met many trans people who identify as feminists?

And being "excluded" doesn't actually mean being excluded. Like, nobody is telling anyone you can't be an activist of that thing, fight for that thing, and support that thing. BLM activism is FULL of white allies who want to help and make it better for them. Feminism is FULL of men who have some empathy for their female friends, wives, daughters, or just females in general, and want to support them. LGBT activism and collectives are also FULL of straight people who want to support and help. And Transgender activism is full of non-trans individuals who simply want to support. So actually, none of these collectives exclude anyone.

Collectives exist to focus on a certain population, and do not need anyone whining about why they're not included. Like, can you imagine how stupid it would be for straight people to whine about LGB activism not fighting for straight individuals' goals? how incredibly absurd it'd be for white people to whine that BLM doesn't say a word about white people's rights? In fact, you don't even have to imagine it. When people began saying White Lives Matter, we all hated them with passion and criticised them.

But somehow the absurdity of calling someone Terf is OK. And let me ask you, why should a female, in a collective called FEMINISM, be discussing trans rights? Like, what the fuck they've got to do with that? That's not to say that a feminist cannot be caring about trans lives or black lives or whatever, because feminists tend to be in more groups or collectives than simply feminism. So a feminist will focus on female stuff in their feminist activism, then go to their BLM activism and focus on black lives, then go to their LGB activism, and focus on fighting for gays, lesbians and bisexuals, and then go to their trans rights activism and fight for those. Like, I don't go to a protest about BLM with a giant poster saying "you can't pray away the gay", you know what I mean? You have to do each thing in its place.

If you don't identify as female, why, oh why, would you expect FEMINISM, a collective that per definition, focuses on female stuff, to be discussing your rights? you wouldn't expect gay rights to be discussed in BLM activism, would you? Another matter is when feminism sometimes discusses BLM, because the experiences of POC women are often ignored, and are often drastically, different from white women's experiences, so in some collectives, some issues might intertwine. Putting myself as an example to make things a bit clearer, I'm a feminist, an immigrant where I live, and bisexual. Also, I support BLM, and being a leftist, also democracy, freedom of religion, and so on. But if I'm making a post about a racist attack in my city, for example, I'm not going to be adding some paragraph talking about the importance of respecting people's sexual orientation, because it just doesn't fit there. And as much as I support trans lives, I'm not going to be discussing them in feminism, because it doesn't go there, and it's important to give each thing it's space to FOCUS on that thing, to give them a full stage, not a quarter of it. That's why we have so many different activism collectives.

And the same happens with protests on the street. Easy example. The other day I went to an NHS protest. A couple days earlier I went to a protest for the right to protest. I wasn't bringing NHS banners to my right to protest march, and I wasn't bringing feminists banners to my NHS protest. Logically. Similarly, I won't bring transgender banners to my feminist protests. I might bring lesbian banners, because lesbianism and feminism go hand-in-hand, or female BLM banners, but that's about it.

Complaining that one doesn't go to a feminist meeting to talk about trans rights activism, and calling us terfs, is simply a way to try to demonise feminism and demonise women. It's a way to support female erasure. It's pretty much like calling a feminist, misogynistic against men. And it's specially appalling and stupid when you consider that trans people run away from identifying as females, and from the idea of sex, both of which are KEY to feminism (as feminism is about sex-based oppression). Like, how would you feel if we went to meetings focusing on getting trans rights and we started talking about feminist problems?

So of course I laugh when I get called a Terf, because I find it as incredibly absurd as if I was called racist against the whites for supporting BLM.

If you don't want to be considered female, don't complain when your problems aren't discused in feminist meetings and collectives. And besides, some trans problems are discussed in feminism. For example, one of feminism's fights is about spreading awareness about female health, related to female sexual organs, which inevitably affects trans men (who haven't transitioned), therefore including trans people to an extent.

#terfs #transphobia #transgender #feminism #feminist #women #women's lives matter #blm #lgb activism #activism

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