I am absolutely loving your Danyal Al Ghul au. While I have a soft spot for the whole plotline of Danny becoming his canon personality almost right after breaking away from the LOA all because of Jazz, I'm just as much for your take in which he goes through the same character development as Damian.
Now I'm curious. You already tackled his relationship with Dani, will you eventually take a stab at when he, Sam, and Tucker meet Gregor? Given that it's one of my hated episodes as I couldn't stand Sam's infuriatingly hypocritical attitude to Danny's suspicions of him, I'd kill to see your spin on it.
Aw, thank you! Danyal Al Ghul aus are what got me into DPDC first, so I have a major soft spot for them. That being said, uh, its exactly that soft spot that causes me to have Many Opinions about the trope you just mentioned. Like the trope is all fine and dandy, i don't blindly hate it, my main issue with it is that most aus i've seen treat his backstory as an ex-assassin more like a pretty cosmetic accessory rather than something that actually should have had an impact on him. Especially if he remembers being in the league.
Like i cannot stress enough the fact that being in an ecofascist assassin cult (regardless of his standing in it) should've left him, in some way or another, screwed up morally and psychologically because that's just how development works. Nature vs. Nurture is like a game of tug-o-war that never ends, where they are constantly fighting against each other and one side usually has the upper hand or greater influence. Children model the behaviors of the adults around them (ex: bobo the clown doll experiment), and what impacts them in childhood can stick with them permanently.
Like how my psychology professor put it: a baby's brain is like wet cement; if you slap your hand on it, it leaves an imprint, and the cement dries that way. The same rings true for small children.
I could go on, but I frankly have so many thoughts on that alone that I would end up completely derailing from the second half of your ask, and I don't want to be more critical than I already have. Especially since you just mentioned you have a soft spot for the trope.
[Okay, hold onto your hats because this is long. Naturally lmao.]
Gregor! Man, I'll admit I last watched the show back in middle school on a dodgy illegal website (it had surprisingly good audio and visual graphics, and full episodes. But really annoying porn ads.) but I only made it to like season 1 before my hyperfixation faded and I lost interest. So I never actually saw the Gregor episode.
But... it is relatively easy to find free websites that stream Danny Phantom :), so finding the episode took me like. Thirty seconds. Plus the Tv.Tropes recap page because my damn earbuds just died and im out in public as of rn.
I'm not sure if I'll write something for the gregor episode like I did with Dani, since Dani's a bit of a special case in that she's a clone and tends to be a reoccurring presence in DPDC, and I thought the new dynamic with Danyal would be interesting.
Plus, I'm not a big amethyst ocean shipper for the pure reason of I'm just not all that interested in it; its kinda bland to me. I'll admit I've entertained the thought in this au due to the whole balcony scene i wrote, but I would've entertained the thought anyways if it was Tucker in that position instead. Big multishipper, me.
But, if I had to make it official? Danyal is not interested romantically in Sam when the Gregor episode happens, regardless of his relationship with Valerie. Who, speaking of I'm trying to think about how that would go, and I'm torn between including him almost-dating Valerie or not.
Because on one hand it helps point out Sam's hypocrisy (and i love her but i am always happy to point out her flaws and address them in au) in this episode in terms of Danny spying on them, but on the other hand I'll want to include a lot of set up in order to make Gray Ghost work in this au and wow will that take a while.
Especially with the Flirting with Disaster episode because it happens due to Technus' meddling, and Danny is, well, the son of the Batman? A trained assassin? An ex-assassin nonetheless, but still an assassin? A prodigy child in this au? He might not have needed to use most of his skills in the last few years, but like... there's just a bunch of 'what if' and 'well technically...' and 'would he? he could, but would he?' things that is getting in the way of my thought process and making my head spin.
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Mmm. Okay. Flirting with Disaster occurs relatively the same as canon with a few exceptions; like Danyal noticing the strange coincidences, and he might take the idea into proper consideration because Sam has a point it is strange, especially out of nowhere.
However,,, he really enjoys Valerie's company, and he does really like her. He's been adjusting to civilian life for the last four years and while he's made a lot of progress, he's still. an ex-assassin child living like a wolf amongst sheep. This is normal, typical teenager stuff, and usually his friends like to encourage him doing normal teenager stuff.
So he's stubbornly holding out on the thought that this is normal, that ghost stuff isn't interfering here. He's a little hurt that his friends are discouraging this, he's not bothered by the fact that Valerie is a ghost hunter and he a ghost -- his mother is an assassin, and his father is Batman, and they still had a relationship. (Granted, he's not gonna tell them that)
If anything, being diametrically opposed to each other but still being in love is part of the family! Granted, usually both parties are aware of said opposition to each other, but he'll make a special exception this time around.
(And man now that i'm thinking about gray ghost, im now thinking about various like. scenes i could write between the two of them. maybe in a reblog.)
Anyways uhhh things relatively go the same as canon. Yeah. I think Sam still has a crush on Danny and still spies out of jealousy with Tucker.
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Now, the Gregor episode! With that out of the way; the TVTropes recap for this episode isn't the best because it doesn't go into detail about the entire episode like it does with Flirting With Disaster and Shades of Gray.
(which i looked at earlier because I made a section of this post talking briefly about what changes I'd make to the Shades of Gray episode to help set up Gray Ghost, but ended up deleting because it was kinda irrelevant for the matter at hand.)
So I'm taking in bits of the episode clips at a time, I'll try not to get too nitpicky about how each scene goes because then it's gonna take me a longer time to write this.
But! First thing's first; since Danny is not romantically interested in Sam, he is also not jealous of Gregor. He is however, a bit eyebrow-raisey at him in their first introduction, but that's because Gregor is coming off as obnoxious.
Danny thinks he's kinda annoying, and it doesn't take a genius to see that Gregor is trying to impress Sam. But since they've only known him for five minutes he takes the good faith assumption and assumes that Gregor is genuinely trying to show interest in Sam's interests too because he likes her, so he keeps mum. The fake hungarian accent is weird, but it's overall harmless, so he doesn't point it out.
He does do the spying thing when he starts suspecting that Gregor might be working for the GIW. The episode only has this happen twice, but for the au this happens a handful of more times over the course of the week, with Danyal's suspicion steadily rising more and more each time.
Hah, when he brings up wanting to spy on Sam and Gregor because of this reason, Tucker still does his "woah! you wanna spy on Sam?" thing.
Danny immediately turns to him, completely unimpressed, and crosses his arms. "Tucker," he says, deadpan, "you and Sam spied on me and Valerie."
He uses a combination of his ghost powers and his regular stealth ability to spy on them. He's hiding in a tree when they're skipping rocks, close enough that he can use his powers to hear them talk but far enough away that he has a good view of their surroundings.
He's invisible in the cinema, but doesn't accidentally get in front of the projector. He checks the inside of the room for the GIW, and then waits outside the actual room itself, keeping an eye on the area and occasionally flying in to watch the movie out of boredom. It reminds him of being back on a recon mission with the League, but it doesn't end with him orchestrating someone's death.
Then when they're at the mall he stays in human form, blending in with the crowd. He runs into the GIW there, but realizes that they're not there because of Gregor; they're just shopping. They didn't show up at either of the last two locations, and he follows them to make sure they're not also trying to blend in. But they're literally just there for shopping.
Danny is rather pleased with this turnout; so far Gregor isn't a spy, he's just annoying. The next day at lunch he asks Sam how her date with Gregor went, and that's how she figures out he spied on them, because well, she didn't tell him that.
"Have you been spying on me?"
Danny messes with his food a little bit, and Tucker is sinking into his seat with embarrassment. He frowns, "Only last night. Those incompetent government dodos--"
His lip curls up; he gets all 'Shakespeare-y' (as Sam and Tucker put it) when he's insulting someone, "--kept appearing whenever Gregor did. I followed you and him last night to make sure he wasn't a spy."
A roundabout way of saying, "I was worried".
Sam is, as canon, furious. Danny understands why, he knows generally speaking that people don't like being spied on. But he's confused on just how angry she is, and is a little irritated by it.
"Why would you do that!" She exclaims, "That's way out of line, Danny."
"How? You spied on me when I was going on dates with Valerie." He narrows his eyes, and points his fork at her, "I'm not blind, I noticed."
"That's different, we told you why we were suspicious. And we don't have ghost powers like you do."
"I don't need ghost powers to sneak around, Sam, you've seen this firsthand. And I just told you why I followed you, I thought he was working with the guys in white--"
"So you think someone can only be interested in me if they're after you?" (this is a paraphrased quote, folks ;D)
"No! If that was the case I would have voiced my concern the moment I thought it. I don't get why you're so angry, you spied too."
Iiits.... a mess. Sam storms off with Gregor, Tucker tags along because okay, yeah, maybe Gregor isn't with the GIW, or maybe last night was a fluke. Either way he ends up tagging along. Danny overhears that conversation between the GIW and Mr. Lancer, and maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong; but something is up.
I've gotten to that scene in the locker room where Gregor tells Danny that he knows he doesn't like him, and I've paused at Danny's reply to say this: Danyal doesn't even bother trying to deny it.
"I know you do not like me."
"You're right; I don't."
"Ah, let me finish. I know you do not like me because you want to protect your friend, Sam, and I respect that."
"...That's correct."
"Good! Because I am going to ask her out."
"I had a feeling you'd say that," he stands up, claps his hand tight on Gregor's shoulder, and leans close to him with a threatening smile, "so you understand me when i say; if you break my best friend's heart, you're as good as dead, right?"
"Ah,, yes. I am so glad we got that cleared out of the way, and now I hope after we can.. how you Americans put it, hang out?"
In the episode he hugs Danny and gives him a la bise (which is that french greeting where you kiss someone on the cheek two or more times) after they end their conversation. But here, when he goes to do that to Danyal, Danny leans away, points an accusatory finger at him, and says; "Absolutely not; we are not close."
The next scene after that is like, end of day. Sam, Tucker, and Gregor walking away. Sam looks over her shoulder to glare at Danny, then gets forlorn. Tucker looks back and just looks forlorn.
(When did I start narrating each scene?? Eh, I'm writing this in brief spurts of time throughout the day. Don't fix what's not broke)
After that there's this whole scene with the two GIW agents that have been chasing Phantom all episode. They're there because they have Tucker's PDA that Skulker took, and it's got the information of their purple backed gorilla assignment on it. They've been going around seeing who Tucker associates with in hopes of catching Phantom.
Uhh ahaha and that is where this gets a little interesting imo, and also allows me to mention that im retconning Danyal's (already) redesigned ghost form. Which I've wanted to retcon even before this moment bc it was just too busy. I'll get to that in a moment.
The GIW suspect Gregor for being the Phantom because of his white hair and green eyes, which is all fine and dandy until you remember: Danyal (and by extension Phantom) has that very noticeable, rather identifiable facial scar that goes across the middle of his fucking face. The GIW could easily suspect that Phantom hides his scar with makeup if he's in disguise, but if they meet a kid with a seemingly identical facial scar and similar disposition? Hoo boy.
Solution? I've got two: Gregor is canonically a kid from Michigan who faked everything to impress Sam. Considering he knows she's gothic and knows that she's ultra-recyclo vegetarian? He probably watched her from afar or got information on her somehow. His hair is dyed, his eyes might just naturally be green, but if he notices that she's got a crush on either Danyal or Phantom? A little sfx makeup could help him recreate a similar looking scar.
My second solution that's gonna happen anyways bc its that suit redesign; Danyal does hide his face as Phantom. Ghosts are emotional creatures and its a popular headcanon that their interests, ambitions, etc, influence the way they look as a ghost, not just their death. A big reoccurring theme of my au is that Danyal did not leave the League unscathed, and that being an assassin is an important part of his identity.
So i'm discarding the hazmat suit look entirely and leaning into the 'assassin' thing. But the general (stylized) feel is like, white ribbon/cloth vambraces that he has used as a garrote at some point, a hood, a gaiter scarf-type thing. I'm keeping the cape. I did a doodle a few days back that's not the official redesign, but a redesign for Phantom. I may reblog this post with that attached because it's got the general feel down. There's very little white involved, but the inside of his cape flares out and looks like the night sky.
Now, the hood and gaiter scarf gets rid of most of the problem, but Danny's hood doesn't stay on all the time, so the GIW have likely seen the upper half of the scar. :] Gregor's own drawn-on scar doesn't have to be 1:1, but it looks close enough, right? A small scar cutting through the edge of his brow and ends right below the corner of his eye. A 'cool, badass' one opposed to Danny's 'garish' scar.
But! Back to the episode scene. Canon Danny gets written off as being 'too prepubescent' to be Phantom, and honestly it'd be hilarious if Danyal was written off for the same reason (he's calling them idiots in his head if they do). But instead -- leaning into the GIW's incompetence here -- he gets written off as being too mature or too talkative. Or something equally as absurd.
Sam breaks up with Gregor for canon reasons, but when Gregor does his "i really like you, but, come on-!" and gestures to tucker, he adds on "and that scary friend of yours too, seriously!"
Things go relatively the same as canon after that. Danny does end up apologizing for spying, however. Sam does it first. Sorrows, prayers, all that.
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Things usually end up changed or different when I actually write it down, so I'd likely add more or adjust different scenes according to the flow of the oneshot. This is just like, a general vibe of how things would go, and where some of the more obvious changes would be if I did write this oneshot.
Hope you enjoyed! Thanks for the ask :]
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A Jonathan Byers Meta
I’ve been thinking so much about Jonathan Byers and I have some thoughts (again). (Feel free to reblog if you want but please be nice if you do so!) Jonathan is a person whose core trait, one of them at least, is that he responds so strongly to context and specifically to the kind of context he understands and wants, a trait of many oldest siblings I think. And in that context he can be so many things he is not necessarily in every area of his life. So much of that forward moving momentum he has in the first couple episodes of the show where he’s doing so much so powerfully is caused by it being a context he understands and has chosen to embrace and live out to the fullest- the context of him being the most responsible/capable member of the family. He loves Joyce and Will; he hates Lonny and is going to keep him away from his family at all costs; he considers himself the one in charge. And there is a softness and strength to that that feels absolutely luminous, that feels like nothing can shake it. And so as the show goes on and the lens widens to include more characters and perspectives it feels like Jonathan loses power/feels a little lost/drifts out of the center of the story. And for a long time I considered that a failure of the writers. They paid attention to him at the beginning, I thought, but then dropped him and that wasn’t his fault. But I rewatched Stranger things (seasons 1 and 2) this past spring and actually the thing I saw that surprised me is it makes sense on a character level that he loses that central ground and power so to speak because he is put into a context he no longer really understands or just as importantly doesn’t really want to be in. And yeah I’m talking about his dynamic with Nancy. His dynamic with Nancy in those first few seasons confused me the most and for the longest time because it began so powerfully and then felt like it veered off course. I loved it so much, shipped it so completely, and then lost interest as the show goes. And again I blamed that on the writers (in a way I still kind of do because they’re clumsy but more on that in a minute.) But I think there’s more going on on a character level.
The first beats of Nancy and Jonathan’s story feel so powerful because it’s actually part of that same context of compelling power in which we first meet Jonathan (and if you’re me fall in love with him fast). Will is missing and Nancy steps in to not exactly his place in Jonathan’s family but the position he occupied--and that’s because a) she is trying to solve a problem that is connected with Will’s disappearance, b) she needs help while doing so. Jonathan responds to that context effortlessly and powerfully. He joins forces with her and without any question or hesitation takes care of her physically when she’s in danger. It’s surprising and it’s moving and it feels at first like just an extension of that quiet competence and force of personality we witnessed in the first couple episodes but this time in a romantic context. But actually, it still isn’t romantic with him. It isn’t for him for a long time. Basically until the writers force his hand. And that’s because ---and this SHOCKED me when I rewatched the first two seasons a month ago, almost to the point of anger and quitting the show forever--the show never actually succeeds in establishing that he likes Nancy as a person! It’s clear that the writers intend the audience to pick up on that subtext (or I think it’s clear that that’s what they want) but they bungle it badly if so. The actual basic cues that would tell us Jonathan has a crush on Nancy and have us buy it as a believable emotional experience are missing. There isn’t a scene or even a moment where in any way Jonathan expresses any kind of romantic interest in Nancy at the beginning of the show. It’s not part of the establishing his character. His reasons for taking pictures at the party are muddled from the perspective the show is trying to force and it doesn’t work because all Jonathan has done is be vaguely polite to Nancy at school, caught her eye (quite frankly ACCIDENTALLY that one time), and disappeared down the hallway at the speed of light every time she turns around. She was far more intrigued than he was. The show gives us that moment with tears in his eyes where we’re supposed to believe (I think?????) that he’s so upset she’s with Steve but it’s incongruous and feels so weird and jarring you kind of have to throw it out. Because the show hasn’t done any work of telling us why that would be the case at all. No pining gaze! No mention! No conversation! The conversation they have in the hallway doesn’t communicate longing on his part, only a desire to be away from the cool kids. There isn’t even a time where someone else teases him about his crush on Nancy, the easiest way to introduce the fact of one character liking another. It’s not much of a stretch to believe that he hasn’t really thought about Nancy romantically at all. In fact it’s honestly a stretch to think he does. And there other reasons for his being there that make more sense--though I do think it’s bungled from a writing perspective. He misses Will, he’s out looking for Will, photography is his passion (lol), he doesn’t like the cool kids, he stumbles on their party “eh might as well take a picture and be the cool outside observer that he is.”
And because the writers didn’t give us a clear and unambiguous liking of Nancy from Jonathan as a starting point everything that comes after between them, even romantically or romantically-adjacent in that first season, hits differently once you watch it patiently and closely. It becomes clear that all of Jonathan’s care-taking of her is response not to her as a person he is romantically interested in, but response to context, to being the responsible one, the helper. He gets out her sleeping bag and puts it on the floor because he’s really not thinking with any part of his brain about how he’s in the room of the girl he likes. Because he’s not! He’s there as a larger part of the context the show established for him in the first couple episodes--his family, his role as caretaker. And of course that doesn’t mean that Jonathan couldn’t fall in love with her later just because the story never actually established that he liked her romantically when it thinks it does. Of course that could come later, come OUT of their interactions. but .... it doesn’t. It never really comes through. The most powerful part of their story together is the first part because it’s the only time in their relationship where Jonathan is moving with that characteristic firm decision making and competence. He’s very powerful when he’s saving her life. But everything else feels flat. And part of that is because he’s not a person who changes easily or very much at all. There are things about him that feel powerful and real and RIGHT and then there are things that just feel like him doing what the writers want him to do and those aren’t the same. Everything having to do with Nancy romantically feels like the second thing, like something the writers are making them do. The show even has to use Murray to get their romance actually jump-started because these aren’t really characters electrically drawn together. And so some of the stuff he says, the romantic stuff--it’s easy to handwave. And/or to find other reasons. And no this doesn’t have anything to do with shipping bias, though my shipping has been influenced by paying close attention to his behavior and actions. Because despite the power of Charlie Heaton in a gray sweater backlit by the red light of the darkroom with his hair falling over his face, nothing about it hits the way a Jonathan emotion should hit. And it should hit! The right stuff does! He’s brilliantly and truthfully acted and he’s layered and the right Jonathan moments SING. He’s not really a talker, not fundamentally, he doesn’t show his heart that way but in actions and only some of his actions with Nancy, the ones that really are just part of the context he’s comfortable with, really ring true. The point that I’m trying to get at is that when you look at those first few episodes really closely, emotionally there are only really three things that are actually--in character and in truth-- established about Jonathan’s heart.
They are. One- he loves Will. Will is his person, his world, the center. The one he’s always going to protect first, think about first. Will tells us he doesn’t have friends and Jonathan protests it but that probably came from somewhere. His favorite person in the WORLD is Will. The context of Will’s disappearance highlights that so clearly of course but I think we’d see it even without that. The second thing is that he loves Joyce but he doesn’t particularly trust her judgment, considering himself more of an authority on what this family needs than she does. This establishes a distinguishing quality in him, a pickiness and choosiness and prickliness that is essential. He won’t love blindly and he certainly won’t let just anyone in. (When he says he doesn’t like people we should maybe perhaps believe him and not pass him off as a secret softie.) Joyce is part of his inner circle (I love their relationship a lot actually) but he is not uncritical even of her. This is someone who likes to keep people out because this is someone who doesn’t have endless patience for people and the way they do things. He wants things HIS WAY. His way is domestic and so is the context- he’s frying an egg and it feels so homey and good you want to say he’s a softie and a cinnamon roll- but it comes out of a character who knows what he wants. And the third thing, hilariously enough, is that he hates Steve! Somehow the Duffer brothers DO establish this in a far more convincing way than they establish him liking Nancy. He tells Nancy “he doesn’t like most people” and this is true but Steve is a little bit of an exception in a worse way, as the leader of the popular kids. He’s the figurehead for all that Jonathan dislikes and despises and wants to keep out of his inner circle. The fight that Jonathan and Nancy have in the woods feels far more about his disdain for the cool kids than it does about him really liking her and wanting to rescue her from that. The nerd lecturing the girl who wants to be cool and telling her she’s better than that is a stupid trope and one far less romantic than it thinks it is but because the show has established, intentionally or not, that Jonathan doesn’t really care about Nancy romantically all that comes through in a truthful way is that he doesn’t like popular kids. That emotion, that dislike and almost disdain that lives at Jonathan’s core, is expressed far more authentically than any warmth towards Nancy and it’s so telling that it’s that dislike that collides with the other strongest feeling of his life, loving Will, and leads him to half-killing Steve in the street. The warmest Jonathan ever acts towards Nancy is the warmth of context and the warmth of Will (in his absence) and when those reasons fall away you’re left with something curiously cold. And Jonathan, when he loves, is not a cold person. He’s not a chill person. And so watching him do things like give Will Nancy’s gift to him (a hilarious moment), make Nancy leave out the window (actually very dark and strange considering that Joyce knows they’re sleeping together), literally forget Nancy exists when Will comes back and it’s him and Joyce and Will again, ---you can try to tell yourself that that’s just how he loves. But it isn’t. Because we know his warmth in his hatred and in his loves. And for Nancy it really is just kind of “ehhh.” It’s indifference.
tl,dr; the show thinks that it’s telling a convincing love triangle for sure. But because they don’t establish liking Nancy as a person as part of his character early enough and because he isn’t a character whose fundamental traits change or change easily they don’t actually build a convincing enough romance. It’s because Jonathan is a person who responds to context, even the wrong one, and because Nancy has her own journey and insecurities to work through (a different meta) they stay together for a long time. But it isn’t satisfying and it doesn’t work because it doesn’t actually strike deep enough in Jonathan’s heart. It’s not a context he really wants at his core. If he falls in love it’ll have to be with someone he wants to allow right into the very center of his life and heart and right now he’s not interested in anyone being in that place except his family. And so because he’s kind of stuck in this situation (of his own choosing, I’m not absolving him of that) because Jonathan likes routine and to keep doing the same things and is not self-motivated in the most powerful way to be able to get out of this romance—-he drifts to the edges and stops really doing anything interesting at all. He starts doing pot, won’t go visit Nancy on her spring break etc. He’s not really the boyfriend he could be in any way because I think fundamentally he doesn’t want to be. And the show may put other words in his mouth about this, I kNOW that the show doesn’t completely agree with everything I’ve written here. But it seems to me the only true way to read him in light of what he actually does and how different it is when he’s acting with his whole heart and when he’s not.
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