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deimagines · 2 years

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Sparks (A Barry Allen & Y/N Daughter Imagine)

Imagine your and Barry's daughter, the prodigy speedster and hero Sparks, was traveling through time to check up on Nora. Even though she hates time traveling, she loves Nora enough to let her go through with staying in past to get to know their father as an apology for the years of secrecy. But it was a disturbing visit for Team Flash due to her terrifying resembles of you, her mother.

Note: I do not own anything from the DC or CW. Or anything from the Flash.

Two years old Etta was the apple of Barry’s eye. Named after his father, Henrietta was the last gift that was left to him and his friends and family after the great demise of his great love, Y/N.

The day Barry met Y/N was the same day he met the Arrow, Oliver Queen, and Felicity. Y/N accompanied them to a crime scene in Star City and Barry couldn’t take his eyes off of her. Which annoyed Oliver very much.

And when Barry got his powers, Oliver sent Y/N to keep an eye on him and prevent him from doing anything stupid. Barry didn’t think that he would ever fall out of love with Iris, but from work to hero business Y/N did the impossible. She was the impossible.

Eventually, they fell in love and Barry asked her hand in marriage. And at some point, Y/N became pregnant.

But one night, when she went to help Oliver’s battle with the League of Assassins, she was killed.

That night broke Barry into a mental state that would then seduce him into creating the Flashpoint which gave him back his beloved.

Unfortunately, his happily ever after wasn't to last and he had no choice but to fix his mistakes. But either way, he was glad he did.

The aftermath of flashpoint gave him his daughter. Born a month before Y/N’s death.

It took a while for him to repair all the damages he ‘caused and accept the fact that Y/N was gone. And when he finally made peace with it, he found the courage to move on and formed a relationship with Iris like he dreamed of before ever meeting his soulmate.

“Okay, let’s try this again. Explain.”

Nora squirms in her seat as her parents stare down at her while the rest of the team watches them.

They had just returned from their fight with a metahuman who was strong enough and cunning enough to capture Nora in his arms and threatened Barry to let him go otherwise he’d kill her and then suddenly she wasn’t in his arms anymore. In fact, she appeared on the other side of the fight and Barry was quick enough to outsmart the villain and bring him to the meta prison.

What really frightened him was that he couldn’t find any explanation for how Nora escaped and when he and Cisco did, they all led to the same answer. Nothing.

And the way Nora was acting and fidgeting, the team could easily tell that she knows how.

“Well, I. . . maybe have an idea. But it is not a sure idea because it is literally a thought that I just came up with. Which is really the definition of an idea.”

“Nora.”

“You know what, all this thinking is making me hungry, are you hungry? “Cause I’m really hungry. Maybe we can get that new combo that Big Belly Burger released today! I hadn’t had that meal in weeks and it’s my favorite.”

Her parents shared a look.

“Nora-”

“Actually let's see if Etta is still awake. Family night! Right? Right! Let's go!”

She was about to leave her spot but Iris stopped her and gestured for her to sit back down.

“Nora Allen, I may not have raised you yet but you are a terrible liar, just like your father.”

Cisco and Caitlin then shared a look.

“So spill.” Iris crossed her arms and waited.

Nora fidgets her hands and sighs as she closes her eyes in defeat. “Fine. Look, this is going to be difficult to explain. But I’m really trying, honest!” She assures them after she was getting doubtful looks from them. “I just don’t know how to explain it.”

Barry narrows his brows at her. “Explain what?”

Nora didn’t get a chance to answer when the emergency red lights were flickering on and off and the alarms were blaring from the speakers.

“What’s happening?” Ralph asked.

“Securities have been breached.” Caitlin explains as she and Cisco rushed over to the monitors and checked the security cameras.

After a moment, the red lights turned off and the alarm went silent.

Suddenly, green lighting was glowing the Cortex and the familiar sounds of the winds of a speedster stopping were heard.

And there, in the middle of the room, stood a hooded figure with a scarf and goggles hiding their face. The suit that they were wearing was all black with green details lining her arms, chest and legs. It hugged their figure very well for Team Flash to deduce that the speedster was indeed in fact a woman.

Barry pulled on his mask and glared at the female speedster as Nora stood up and Iris stood next to her in an attempt to hide her from the intruder's view.

“Who are you?” He demanded in a strong tone.

The black and green speedster ignored Barry and focused all her attention on his daughter, causing Barry to lose his cool and yell at her.

“WHO ARE YOU?!”

She remained silent, which enraged Barry even more. The red streak's face finally catches her eyes after she takes a step forward . Though it is somewhat calm, rage can be easily read from it. And when he couldn’t hold back any longer, Barry made the first move and sped over to try and catch her, but she ran away.

So he chases her.

“Dad! Wait!” Nora calls in worry. But it wasn’t for her father.

She chases after them.

“Nora!” Iris yells for her daughter.

Meanwhile, Barry chases the female speedster all over S.T.A.R. Labs, trying to catch up to her. But as hard as he didn’t want to admit, she was faster than him by a second. They ran from the meta prison to the Speed Lab. He thought he had the upper hand when he jumped from the wall and reached to catch her from behind. He was unsuccessful when she turned swiftly and caught his wrist and grabbed his shoulder to maneuver his body and throw him against a concrete wall.

At his impact to the solid surface, he groaned painfully and fell to the floor. He propped his elbow to look up at her. She stops and looks at him in what he believes to be a taunting move. As soon as he stood up and found his balance, he was going to lunge at her.

Nora however stops him by appearing in front of the female speedster with her arms up. Shielding the masked intruder from her father.

“No, no, no, no, no, dad! It’s okay! It’s okay!” She tries to calm him down.

Team Flash manages to catch up to them and enters the room. Cisco, Caitlin, and Ralph readied themselves in case Barry needed help.

“Nora, what are you doing? Get away from her!” Barry exclaims. Fearing for her safety.

“She’s good! She’s good, I promise! She’s not going to hurt us.” Nora assures him.

Barry shakes his head at her in disbelief. “How can you know that?!” He didn’t mean to snap, but he couldn’t care less either.

Nora hesitated, she placed down her arms to her side and slowly turned to the female speedster behind her.

“Because she’s not a stranger.”

At her answer, the black-and-green speedster pulls down her hood to reveal a shade of Y/H/C locks and Y/S/C skin. She removes her mask, and then her goggles, placing them on top of her head.

The training room was still dark, but the light from the corridor was enough to identify the face of their new ‘friend’. But when she steps into the light more, they sort of wish that she could’ve done it sooner.

“It can’t be. . .” Cisco whispers.

Caitlin's eyes started to cloud. “I don’t believe it.”

Barry's breath caught when he stared into the familiar pair of Y/E/C eyes that once belonged to the woman who held his heart with all of his existence.

“. . .Y/N?” He croaks.

“No,” Nora says and quickly corrects him. “Etta.”

Barry looks between Nora and Y/- Etta as the realization finally hits him. This woman, who could be a carbon copy of the love of his life, was his daughter. His baby was not a baby. She had definitely grown into the woman that he had hoped for. To be beautiful like her mother.

“Etta.” He says with wonderment.

Etta wasn’t fazed by the way he was looking at her. “Sorry about that. I was. . . actually that’s not important.” She returned her attention to Nora, her step-sister, and gave her a kind smile.

“Hey Sis.” Nora smiles happily and gives her big sister a bear hug.

Etta laughs a little, which sends a little shiver inside of Barry. She even sounds like her, laughs like her, and yet she wasn’t. She was still his little toddling Etta.

“Hey,” She says and pulls back to look at Nora, up and down before placing a hand on her cheek. “You okay? When I saw that douchebag touching you I couldn’t help but want to rip his arms off.”

“Yeah, she’s definitely her mother.” Cisco comments, but is still content, and a bit freaked out, that future Henrietta was here.

“I’m good.” Nora says. Assuring her sister that she wasn’t harmed.

Etta sighs in relief and taps Nora's chin. “Good.”

Suddenly she grabs Nora by the ear and pulls down hard.

“Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow,” Nora expresses her pain loudly.

“What the hell were you thinking??” Etta said angrily.

Everyone watched as the eldest Allen child dragged her sister by the ear and out to the corridor. They all shared a look and then they follow the girls behind, listening to Etta's ranting as Nora continues to moan in pain.

“Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow-”

“I thought we agreed that you would stay and get to know dad, instead you decided to play hero??”

“Ow, ow, ow,-”

“I specifically told you not to interfere with any of their battles and yet you still couldn’t follow that one rule?”

“Should we help her?” Ralph asks.”

“No, I think it’s best that she settles this on her own.” Joe councils.

“I-is that a good idea?” Barry asked.

“OWWWWW!”

“Maybe?”

***

Once again, Nora found herself sitting on a chair while rubbing the sting on her ear away.

Her sister Etta was still trying to avoid her father’s gaze ever since she calmed down. Well, everyone’s gaze really. And she knew why.

“Uh hi,” Cisco was the first one to break the tension in the room. “Sorry, but I just wanna say how creepy it is that you look like your mom. I mean, the resemblance is so. . .”

Etta looks at him and he just shakes his head.

“Creepy.” He finishes.

“Yeah, you and the rest of the people in my life say so.” Etta mutters.

“What are you doing here, Etta?” Nora asks in a tired voice, but mostly like she was accusing her.

“Uh-uh, you are not using that tone with me.” Etta points at her. “You stopped sending in your routined messages-"

"You send messages to the future?" Ralph asked.

"Gideon." Nora says the AI's name.

Barry finally broke his gaze away from Etta. "Gideon?"

"He sends out my messages to Etta in the future to let her know I'm okay."

"Who's Gideon?" Ralph asks, being more confused by the second.

Cisco was the one to answer."Gideon's the AI that Barry built in the future and was-"

Etta was clearly losing her patience."Can we please stop talking about Gideon."

But she left Ralph in a mental crisis.

"I got worried." She points to herself.

“You shouldn’t be.” Nora interjects. “I was with dad."

Etta scoffs. "That doesn't give you a pass to not let me in the know."

"Why should I?" Nora glares up at her.

"Because you are still just a child and as much as it hurts to hear it is the truth."

Nora pursed her lips to keep her from shouting.

Etta sighs tiredly and pinches the crook of her nose. "Look, Nora. You are smart. So smart that I shouldn't even have to remind you that you are still new with your powers. That’s why I agreed to let you learn from dad."

The youngest Allen child looked down in frustration and it was not because she was being scolded, but because of herself. Nora knew that Etta was right, but she wouldn't be where she is with Barry if she hadn't made the choice that would ruin their sisterhood.

"When are you gonna realise that I'm not gonna be there all the time whenever you make a mistake?"

Etta turns around and begins to walk out the Cortex.

"Where are you going?" Cisco asked as she passed him.

"The lounge.” She responded and disappeared through the corridor.

***

Central City, 2049.

“Sparks.”

Etta looks up at Clark Kent, Superman who broke her out of her gaze.

“You okay?”

Etta nods. “Kind of. Just feeling a little homesick.”

“I can understand.” Clark places a comforting hand on her shoulder. “You must miss them terribly.”

The speedster smiles sadly. The Justice League had just come back from one of their missions at Coast City. Her three month old son Don was the highlight of her life whenever she came back from a mission or a battle in Central City. “Now I know how my dad feels whenever he’s out doing missions for the Justice League.”

Clark snorts. “Are you kidding me? He was a complete mess compared to you during the Crisis. Trust me, you are handling this better than he did.”

She smiled, but not because she was humoured. Clark drops his smile slowly, apologies quietly.

“I’m sorry. Your father was a good man.”

She only gave another nod before standing up from her chair, her father’s chair. After his disappearance, Etta trained to be Central City’s protector and had taken her father’s place in the Justice League at the age of eighteen. It wasn’t as easy to understand her powers alone, her aunts and uncles were there to help, but she wanted to learn from her father once.

The first memory she has of him that popped into her head was when she was four and had a nightmare about a black ghost with red eyes. She woke up and her father came into her nursery, shushing her lovingly and told her she was okay. Once she calmed down, she told him about the monster and he had a sad look on his face but it was only brief before he told her that he would scare all the monsters away so that his little princess would sleep peacefully. Then, he picked her up from bed, took her to the kitchen and made them both ice cream sundaes. They had to be quiet since they didn’t want to wake up Iris and get in trouble.

“Thank you.” She says to Clark. “I better get going, Micheal and Don are waiting for me.”

“Tell Michael I said hi.” Clark says before giving her a parting hug.

“I will. See you at the next meeting.” She waves and runs out of the Hall of Justice.

Her physical home in Central City was a penthouse that she and Michael had brought after three years of their relationship. She met Michael, Ryan Choi’s apprentice at Ivy University, when she needed an upgrade on her suit and they just clicked. They crossed each other’s paths again and again until Michael had the courage to ask her out for coffee. And as secretive as she was, Michael still figured out that she was the speedster hero Sparks.

They married two years after buying the penthouse and had their son, Donatello 'Don' months after their wedding.

Her true home was being with them.

***

Central City, 2018.

Etta studied the buildings from the balcony of the lounge, admiring the night skies and listened to the cool winds against her ear. Reaching into her pocket, she grabbed a device that’s the size of her thumb and clicks on it. A small holopic of her husband holding their son in his arms appeared.

She smiles at it and reaches out to stroke the image of her son’s cheek. It glitched by the touch but she ignored it as she imagined her son’s touch when she held him in her arms. Her husband would be there holding them together as he had many times.

“They're beautiful.”

Etta turns as she closes the holopic and sees her dad changed into his normal attire.

“Hi.” She waves lamely.

“Hi.” He rasped, feeling nervous by the second as he steps closer to her. It was still strange to see her standing, looking like Y/N would’ve been if she was still with him, alive.

His staring was similar to the ones she received all her life whenever she first met someone who knew her mother. The same stare of awe and grief.

“Will you stop looking at me like that.” She says with a deadpan expression.

He tilts his head. “Like what?”

“Like I’m gonna disappear.“

Barry looks down at his shoes and up to her again. “I’m sorry, it’s just. . . I always envisioned what you’ll look like, all grown up. I mean, you were born with her eyes and hair.” He shakes his head lightly and walks up to her while looking down at her with tears beginning to form in his eyes as he smiled. “You look so much like your mother.”

Etta looked up at him awkwardly and shifted in her spot. “You know, sometimes, I get tired of hearing it.” Her voice wavers a bit. “Getting compared to my mom.”

Barry nods in understanding.

She crossed her arms. “But weirdly hearing it from you. . . it’s different.”

Barry smiled more brightly. “Is that a good thing?”

She nods and steps back to rub her arms. They walked to the edge of the balcony and leaned on the bars with elbows.

“So, who are they?” Barry couldn’t help but ask.

“I’d rather not answer.” She wanted to avoid it. “Timeline thing, you know.”

“But-”

“Look, I really don’t want to sound mean,” Even if she is. “But I’m only here to see how Nora’s doing. That’s it.”

He stayed silent for a while, looking at her like a sad puppy. But respects her decision either way. “Okay. How long will you be staying?”

“A day.” She answers.“I still have duties to attend in the future.”

“What duties?”

She didn’t say, only placing a finger on her lips mischiefly and walked back into the lounge. “Night dad. Kiss baby Etta goodnight for me.”

Barry watches her leave the lounge. Fighting the urge to follow her, wanting to spend more time with her. But he has a feeling that she wants to either be alone or go back to Nora.

***

Central City, 2049.

“Who else knows?” Nora asks angrily at her mother.

“Everyone.” Iris whispers.

“Everybody?” Her daughter quietly. “Everyone that I love has been keeping this from me? Why?”

“Because I told them to.” Iris tries to reason with her.“Nora, I was trying to protect you.”

“From what?”

“From this city. From meta-humans. From. . . From. . . Yourself.”

Nora scoffs and looks away from her. Unbearing to look at her right now. “Wow.”

“Nora, you don’t understand.”

“No. I don’t understand. How did I get my powers? What do you have against speedsters, against Spar-”

And then her mouth opens with the smallest of realisation in her eyes. “Etta?”

Iris closes her eyes again.

“That’s why she’s alwaysdisappeared away. She’s Sparks isn’t she?”

“Nora-”

“Why didn’t you tell me?!” Nora snaps.

“Nora, I have already lost so much. I can’t risk losing you too.”

Nora shakes her head and shrugs. “Well. . .you just did.”

And she disappears. Leaving Iris to her sadness, but she didn’t have any regets of protecting her daughter.

Nora ran through all of Central City to go to her sister, but what she found at her home was a nightmare.

CCPD was there along with an ambulance. Nora feared the worst and ran at a normal pace to the scene. She showed her badge and was about to head into the building until two paramedics rolled a stretcher. Her breath caught her throat when she saw the person on it.

“Etta? Etta!” She cries and runs up to the paramedics.

“Are you family?” One of the paramedics asked.

“She’s my sister. What happened?” She asked and gasped when she saw a pool of blood wetting the blouse on her sister. They lifted her into the ambulance and stepped inside as they answered her question.

“Multiple stab wounds and a head concussion. Get in.”

Nora didn’t need to be told twice and immediately went into the vehicle. She sat beside the paramedics and reached out to hold her big sister’s hand.

“Etta please, don’t leave me. Please.” She cries. “There’s so much I need to know. Please.”

After they got to the hospital and rushed Etta to the OR, Nora paced around the waiting room.

Soon, when she was on her third cup of coffee. Loud footsteps were heard from the corridor and a strong yet familiar voice was called out.

“Henrietta Henrietta Allen-Jude. Where is she, is she okay?”

“Any relations?”

“I’m her husband, now tell me where she is!”

Nora stood up from her chair. “Michael?”

Michael turned and saw her. “Nora! What happened, is she okay?”

Nora shakes her head. “I don’t know." And she breaks down into a crying fit which leads Michael to catch her in a hug.

Luckily, Etta recovered from the attack, but the surgeon doesn't know when she’ll wake up. That left Nora into a deep spiral of sadness. Once again, she felt alone. So to take her mind off her sister’s condition, she decided to spend her time trying to catch Godspeed and continues to meet with the only speedster she knows, Eobard Thawne.

After finally catching Godspeed, who was identified as August Heart, Nora began her training as the ‘Fastest Woman Alive’ which she shouldn’t use that title since her sister held it first. Thawne taught her how to become a proper speedster despite knowing that he was her father’s archnemesis. But what was she supposed to do? She couldn’t wait on Etta forever and she needed to find a way to use her powers to become a hero. A choice that was taken from her mother.

Then, one faithful day, Etta finally wakes up.

Etta opened her eyes and blinks rapidly to adjust the bright lights above her. She looks around her surroundings and deducts that she was in a hospital. She turns when she felt a heavy weight on her lap and sees her husband sleeping peacefully there, laying his head on his arms as a pillow.

Not stopping the smile that was forming slowly on her face, she lifts her hand and rests it on Michael's head, stroking his hair.

Micheal stirs then opens his eyes. He looks up and suddenly stood straight. “Etta,” He whispers. “Thank god.”

He leans over to press a long kiss on her forehead, grabbing her hand and held it tight, not ever wanting to let go.

She laughs quietly at his love, savouring the moment. “Someone misses me.” She jokes.

Micheal pulls away and began planting small kisses on her face. Once he was done he wipes the hair away from her face and places his forehead against hers. “You have no idea how happy I am to see your eyes open, Runner.”

She smiles but then quickly becomes serious. “How bad is it?”

Micheal sighs. “Not bad. Thankfully, your Aunt Caitlin came to see you and everything seems to be fine.”

“Good.”

“Etta!” A voice behind Micheal cries in joy.

Etta looks over and sees that Nora was here as well. Awoke from her sleep on the chair.

“Hey XS.” She says happily as Nora continues to cry under her breath.

“Are you okay? Do you feel any pain?” Nora asks but Etta just waves.

“Nah, I’m good, hungry, but good.” She then sent a look to Michael and he immediately understood.

“I’ll go see the doctor.” He squeezed her hand and gave her one more kiss and swoops out of the room.

“How are you. Really?” Nora held her hand and stroked the back of her hand.

“Fine.” Etta says. “I’m fine. . .” She tried to comfort her but failed miserably as her lips quivered.

“Hey. Hey. What is it?” Nora panicked and manages to hold her calming voice to ease her older sister.

Etta let out a small sob. “I-I. . .”

“Shhhhh. It’s okay. It’s okay.” Nora consoles her. Whatever God Speed did to her, she’ll make sure that he’ll stay in the pit hole. Forever.

The older woman shakes her head. “It’s not. It’s not.” She grips Nora’s hand tightly. “Nora. . .”

Nora then understands. Etta was going to tell her.

Etta takes a deep breath to control her emotions. “Nora there’s something you need to know.”

“Etta-”

“No, Nora, please listen-”

“Etta.” Nora repeated her sister’s name more loudly. Etta stops her babbling and looks up at her.

Nora smiles and petted Etta’s hair. She took a deep breath. “I know.”

Etta shakes her head again. “No, no you don’t. Listen to me-”

“Etta.” Nora cries too. “I know.”

Etta’s breath shakes. A sudden wave of relief rushes through her body and she closes her eyes.

“I wanted to tell you. For so long.” She sniffs. “But Iris. . . she wouldn't let me.”

“Why?” Nora rasped. “You are Sparks. “ She whispered. “You’re Central City’s Heroine. You’re part of the Justice League. What power does mom have over you?”

The speedster sniffs. “She’s a mother. Something that we both have in common.”

“Hey. There’s something you need to know.”

Etta watches as Nora lifts her hand and vibrates it to a familiar speed. She gasps.

“You’re. . .”

“Guess I’m a late bloomer.” Nora says and they both burst into quiet laughs. “There’s a lot you need to catch up on.”

She sniffs again and grabs her sister’s hands with excitement. “Tell me.”

#barry allen #iris west #joe west #barry allen imagine #flash imagine #cisco ramon #dc #arrowverse #caitlin snow #ralph dibny #barry allen x reader imagine #y/n #dcdomics #central city #nora allen

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squijim · 1 year

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I always think of this comment by you about if Wally did come back. And like, I always would have wanted Wally storming away from everyone else and just ending up where else but….keystone city, feeling like he’s hit rock bottom but willing to dig and just so happens to run into Hartley Rathway and Linda Park and that’s when you realize he’s always gonna have that five year gap from his old friends but that doesn’t mean…he can’t truly start over.

And Wally’s powers have always had a element of clap if you believe to them so I think a part of him needs to get away from others to come into his weird speedforce powers, maybe run into Max or something. Like he needs to fight Zoom behind a Dennies, and uncover like 10 cults in 2 months like Wally does in the comics.

Plus, like Jesus Christ in heaven all I want is for Wally and Linda (and Hartley) to be known as besties again

i just want wally and the flashfam to be taken more seriously by the young justice writers. literally every single family unit in yj has had its moments in the sun; this last season had a big emphasis on the supers and martians, the previous season with the arrows, s2 with the atlanteans... surprisingly the batfam has had little screentime but dick has always been a main character and i think the batfam's strong presence in pretty much every other dc property makes up for it.

but the flashes?? i'm racking my brain. there was "coldhearted" in s1 which featured mary and rudy eating breakfast with wally. they showed up again in the season when the adults were sent to a different dimension,, and they showed up when wally died. bart had one conversation with jay about being an outsider but that wasn't even one-on-one. the flashes appeared here and there in season 2 when bart was first introduced and then nothing really happened, nothing about the tornado twins or bart's past or anything...

the flashes are all about family but when has that ever been represented? every single episode or scene featuring them aside from the wally + wests moments has had some element of tension. bart and jay's convo, bart's interactions with barry, even wally's interactions with barry, but they're supposed to be like father and son!!

and then you add the fact that the characters are never in central, the only flash villain (aside from Grodd who never shows up) who's around is Captain Cold but he barely has any lines and is never solo. there's been no zoom, no rogues, no trickster or reverse flash or weather wizard. max mercury has never showed up. no mention of hartley or linda.

i love spitfire and i love them together and i love wally's friendships but i want the emphasis on /him/. his origins were briefly discussed in the denial episode and in a comics attachment but we never talk about wally's insecurities, or his backstory, or why he retired, or his idolization of barry— all of the things that have been historically key to understanding Wally West. I'm still upset that every other character got a good therapy session with Dinah after "Failsafe" but Wally. Why deny the audience a chance to learn more about the serious sides of him only to make a joke about him being in denial which we already know?

Ugh.

I agree with everything you said, Anon. I want Wally to figure out who he is away from the others on the team. What place does he have in the world now? How much catching up is there to do? Can he still get his degree, his dream career? How does Wally, whose pride is so easily hurt, come back from these blows?

#my first ask :')#i love it please keep sending in your thoughts on wally in young justice #yj writers hire me challenge #wally west #young justice

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sparrowsabre7 · 2 years

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Legends of Tomorrow is... sorry, was... a complicated show with a very uncomplicated premise. It was technically a sci-fi/superhero show about a bunch of misfits travelling through time to fix anomalies. The reality was much more than that, it was a show that was at once better and worse than Doctor Who, funnier and more inventive than many standard comedies and more heartfelt and sincere than many Emmy winning dramas.

It was also absolute nonsense and one of the dumbest shows around, but one thing it never was was boring. It began life with a fairly rote premise, picking up strays from existing DC superhero shows that were airing at the time (Arrow and Flash) and brought them together under the Captaincy of Rip Hunter, a British space cowboy who wanted to stop the man responsible for the murder of his wife and child. A remarkably straightforward mission statement which then evolved over the seasons to become fixing time anomalies, fighting the Legion of Doom, sending time exiles back to their proper place, fighting resurrected evildoers of history, magical beasts, and aliens before finishing on a final season with the very simple plot of finding their way home from the 20s... whilst fighting evil versions of themselves.

For all this high concept malarky, Legends had two key strengths:

1. Its prescience to use lesser known characters as its ensemble, allowing for an easy rotation of cast and allowing them to take (sometimes extreme) liberties with the source material and avoid becoming predictable.

Many characters came and went but all had incedible chemistry and the crew of the Waverider ( the Legends' timeship) always felt like family. Additionally, throughout its run, Legends accumulated perhaps the most diverse and representative cast of any show on a major network, featuring a female bisexual main character from the get go, promoted to Captain from season 2 onwards. By the end of its run the main cast was predominantly female, with a number of sexualities, ethnicities, and religious backgrounds represented.

2. Its willingness to completely throw out the core concept of the show almost every season. All that carried over through all seven seasons was time travel and the team righting wrongs (along with stalwart Captain Sara Lance and AI turned real person Gideon). It seems almost appropriate for a show that has always defied convention (and critics) should end so abruptly, cancelled before given a chance to officially end, on a cliffhanger for the crew (though not without giving us a cheeky glimpse of what the future held for them in the penultimate episode) wherein our brave heroes find themselves arrested for crimes against time (Monty Python would be proud). It ended not with a bang but a literal groan, also conveniently working well as a place to very easily pick up where they left off, should the show ever get picked up in the future. "Where were the Legends all this time?" "Time prison." "Oh ok, moving on."

Regardless of what it was, what it is now, is over and it will leave a very bizarre gap in my life unlike perhaps any other show has or will. It was not the best show, nor even my most beloved show, but it nonetheless holds a very special place in my heart.

This is a show that I started watching with my then girlfriend in 2016 when we had not long moved in together in our first place together, a dingy, very small flat with what could charitably be called five rooms, but was essentially two rooms and three cupboards masquerading as rooms. It was one of the few shows we discovered together and started watching together as a couple and over the course of its run we moved out of our flat, into a new house, got engaged, got married, travelled to four countries, survived a global pandemic, new jobs, and the birth of our first child.

Showrunners Phil Klemmer and Keto Shimizu described the Waverider as a kind of "halfway home" for individuals in need of help, be that moving on, working out issues, growing as a person, or just finding their own sense of peace. It is perhaps fitting then that it is now that we bid farewell to the crew of the Waverider, this show that has carried us through relationship firsts, joys, and heartache; we are whole now, we no longer need them. But we will miss them.

#legends of tomorrow #tv #personal #thoughts #dc #comics #sara lance #the waverider #dcs legends of tomorrow

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hotdadslade · 4 years

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DC’s Failed Shared Continuity

This is a subject that I see touched on a lot but not really addressed, so I wanted to break it down.

DC’s core comics (That is, Batman, Superman, Justice League, etc, and not the elseworld style books like DCeased or White Knight) are generally understood to be happening in a shared continuity. That is, what happens in one book reflects in the other. The series cross over, because they take place in the same universe.

Only that isn’t true anymore.

There are a lot of plot holes that don’t really make sense, but that isn’t what I want to talk about. Instead, I want to talk about the fact that DC has absolutely no timeline, the absolute glut of events happening in and out of main books, and the fact that each DC comic is effectively its own universe, rather than shared between it.

I’m going to address the following examples, just to give people an idea of what’s going on and exactly what I mean when I talk about a shared continuity:

The fact that Alfred Pennyworth’s funeral happened before he died.

The fact that Bruce Wayne was in at least three places at once at the start of Perpetua’s invasion.

DC’s insane event schedule through 2019.

The lack of impact events are having with the readers, such as the fact that fact that the entire of South America went to war, China engaged in mass orgies, and the entire of Britain stared at the sky for days on end and almost no reader has heard about it.

City of Bane’s complete lack of impact in the larger DC universe

And last but not least: Why does this matter, and where does DC go from here?

Alfred’s Funeral is before his Death:

Alfred Pennyworth dies during City of Bane. We see his funeral in Pennyworth: R.I.P., where we see the family come together and share stories before immediately getting into a slap fight over it.

This unquestionably happens after City of Bane, because City of Bane is when Alfred died. Despite this, Ric is still around:

That little note in the bottom left makes it clear that this happens before Nightwing Annual #2.

The majority of Annual #2 is a flashback, but it specifically ends with the Court of Owls telling Cobb (that is, Talon) that Dick will soon be his, and telling him to move in. This happens in Nightwing 63, when Cobb shows up (aided by Apex Lex’s gift), and starts screwing with Dick’s life. I’ll skip over the most of it: what matters is that Talon brainwashing Dick Grayson appears the same night Perpetua’s symbol appears over the city (in Nightwing 66 and a number of other issues), Dick attacks the Nightwings, fights Condor Red, and then is freed from the mind control all in one night.

Which is great. Except this can’t happen after Alfred’s death, because the symbol of Perpetua (which appears everywhere at once) appears over Gotham during City of Bane (in Batman 81):

So we have one event happening simultaneously in Nightwing and Batman, only one happens before/during Alfred’s death, and the other supposedly happens well after.

Which leads us into...

Batman apparently can be everywhere at once

So up above we have Batman 81. Bruce is, at this point, in the city rushing to beat Bane when the symbol pops up.

Here’s the symbol popping up in Detective Comics (1014) while fighting the Freezes (the city, I’ll note, is normal Gotham at this point, not controlled by Bane):

Bruce is in Paris (in theory, after his coma) in Outsiders #6, and then arrives back in Gotham just in time for the symbol to appear in the sky in issue 7:

Even just while researching this, I realized that it happened in other issues too. The symbol appears in the sky in Batman/Superman issue 3 while Bruce is being attacked by the infected:

It also happens in Justice League, but I can’t be bothered to get pages.

This is all taking place in a shared universe, so the fact that there’s three or four different Bruce’s in three or four different books who are all doing completely different things in different areas is... baffling. DC has always played a bit fast and lose with Detective Comics and Batman, rarely defining which is happening first or what their exact order of events is, but this takes it a step beyond that.

It also leads into...

DC has how many events? and What happened to the infected?

2019 was a year. Specifically, it was the year of the Villain, but it really should have been year of the event, because DC had so many events happening almost concurrently that it was impossible to figure out what was going on when.

You had Heroes in Crisis running from late September 2018 to May 2019 (acknowledged in Batman, Flash, Green Arrow, Red Hood, and Titans, but largely inconsequential and rarely referenced again).

Year of the Villain itself spanned the whole year, with two dedicated series (YoTV and YoTV: Hell Arisen), a huge Justice League arc (14 issues!), literally dozens of tie in issues in main books, and 8 oneshots focusing on specific villains and their upgrades.

This also tied into The Infected storline, where the Batman who Laughs infected six heroes and sent them out into the universe to torment people. This, too, got a number of oneshots and tie-in issues.

You had Event Leviathan, a six issue series which then got a spinoff and soon a sequel through the second half of 2019, which promised to ‘stretch across the DC universe and touch every character’, which has been, outside of Action Comics (which spun it off), a complete non-entity.

You also had Doomsday Clock, which launched all the way back in 2017 and only finished in late 2019. This was intended to ‘impact the entire DC universe’, with the idea that when the series ended, the rest of the continuity would catch up to it and you’d see the repercussions. It’s effectively been rendered non-canon, taking place outside the universe in a single line in Justice League.

So many things were happening, and they were all stressed as extremely important, but when the chips were down...

Most of them weren’t.

Half the Villain upgrades went away with the blink of an eye (Black Mask hasn’t shown up since his oneshot, and Riddler threw his retirement out in favor of being cRaZy in Batman). Heroes in Crisis had almost no affect. Event Leviathan is waiting on its sequel, having meant almost nothing despite the fact that an entire country was taken over. Doomsday Clock is now effectively out of canon.

Many of these (mostly YOTV itself) lead into the Death Metal event happening now, but that’s the thing: they only lead into that. There’s minimal acknowledgement of those events happening in other books. Even when huge things that should be impossible to ignore happen, they have minimal to no effect on the wider continuity. When is Death Metal happening, in continuity? No idea. What about the infected arc? What about Justice League?

Who knows? DC doesn’t seem to.

Which leads into the finale, the great big ‘are you kidding me’ moment:

Remember that time hundreds of thousands of people died, the whole of South America went to war, and China descended into mass orgies?

No?

Neither does anyone else.

In Wonder Woman issue 50 (and some issues around it), a series of dark gods emerge from (you guessed it) the dark multiverse. Each takes control over a single country, enacting their dark bidding.

(Brief Suicide CW in the description below)

The goddess of war causes the entire of South America to literally go to war, invading and murdering each other. The mob god causes the whole of Britain to walk outside and stare up at the sky, not eating or drinking until they started to drop dead. A god of indulgence causes the entire of China to engage in bacchanalia, which is effectively a frenzied orgy of celebration and dancing. The nameless god has taken over Saint Petersburg, causing those within to commit mass-suicide impulsively.

And of course this has been happening world wide. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands are dead. We see shots of other places - mass murder in the streets of Hong Kong, for example.

We actually see other heroes in this. The whole arc actually starts with Supergirl fighting Diana, and then while she's briefly out of commission, the Justice League (Bruce, Arthur, Barry, J’onn, Victor, and Kendra) show up to help only to get absorbed by the big bad. That’s when the above panel happens, and then even more heroes get thrown at the problem.

In the end, Diana ‘wins’ - by sacrificing her brother Jason to the Dark Gods. The gods return the Justice League, and undo the damage they’ve caused on Earth. Those dead aren’t actually dead, for example. Time gets rewound... partially. We see the Justice League who only partially remember what happened, but the damage around the area is still there.

This should be, by any metric, a huge fucking deal. Literal gods appeared from the multiverse and fucked over huge chunks of the planet. Hundreds of thousands died and then were, in theory, un-killed. The heroes are aware of this, and have at least partial memories.

And yet it’s never acknowledged.

This is supposed to be a huge event. The stakes literally could not be higher, and yet I’ve never seen this arc even acknowledged in any other book. This isn’t even a unique thing, either: all of New York (and most of the world) flooded in Doctor Fate and no one noticed outside that book.

So what about City of Bane?

But by far the most significant example of this is City of Bane itself. City of Bane was a huge event. Some of the top selling issues of 2019 were the City of Bane issues. It received numerous ads in other books, as well as major attention. It was the culmination of Tom King’s entire run, and lasted for more than half a year. It involved Gotham taken over by the titular Bane, ruling it with an iron fist and using mind-controlled villains as his own personal police force. It was a huge, game-changing event.

And outside of the pages of Batman (and Gotham City Monsters), it might as well not have happened. Any time it is acknowledged, it’s in the most awkward and confusing manner possible.

Batman and the Outsiders, Issue 6, Bruce is in Paris, Alfred gets a callout from Ra’s, and calls Bruce home:

Bruce immediately gets on a plane and flies home, landing at the end of issue 7 when the Perpetua symbol goes up.

In issue eight, taking place immediately after, we are lead to believe that the entire City of Bane arc happened in between Bruce flying home from Paris and arriving in time to help:

This is far from the only example. City of Bane tends to be acknowledged exclusively in terms of ‘this issue takes place before City of Bane’ editor notes. The only real thing that gets acknowledged is Alfred’s absence: Detective Comics skips over City of Bane entirely (The YOTV issues taking place before, and then going straight to ‘after), Red Hood and the Outlaws ignores it, and Batgirls acknowledgement is effectively skipping City of Bane itself to go right back to talking about ‘cleaning up the city’ with a one line mention of ‘what Bane did to Gotham’. Plenty of other books either don’t mention it at all, or the mention is so minor I completely missed it.

So why does this matter?

Early on in my time in this fandom, I noted that the more a fan is into DC comics (not the fandom, but specifically the comics), the more they’d hate the comics themselves. This extends beyond what most people on tumblr would consider the ‘fandom space’ - I’m talking reddit, league of comic geeks, comic review sites, etc. The fact is that DC has created a scenario where the more you read their work, the worse it gets. Any individual comic from the examples above reads just fine on its own, but when you read multiple comics you start getting confused about why nothing makes sense. There’s no order to things, no continuity. Things are said in one issue and ignored in the next. Major events are trumpeted as changing the status quo but don’t change a thing. DC is actively pushing away their most dedicated readers, the ones who are going out and buying 5+ issues a week.

So what comes next?

The original reason this all came up was the news that DC’s upper editorial staff had been hit with major layoffs. While nothing yet has been confirmed (this happened only three days ago), the general rumors is that DC is going to be majorly cutting back the number of titles. With Death Metal almost certainly heralding a continuity reboot ala Flashpoint, now is the perfect time for DC to figure out what it’s doing with its continuity, and realistically, they have two options.

Option One: Forsake Shared Continuity.

I’m sure a lot of people would hate this idea, because shared continuity is such an intrinsic part of DC’s history, but looking realistically at sales numbers, there’s some major appeal. There’s far less work to it (important with the loss of their editors), and this isn’t to say all the books will be separate, just that they won’t all be inherently linked. Maybe they keep TEC and JL in the same canon. Maybe Nightwing, Batman, and Batgirl share too. The point is, though, that the fact that Gotham is burning to the ground will no longer reflect on Clark, who is apparently just out of earshot with his thumb up his ass doing nothing.

There’s precedent for this as well. Injustice, DCeased, Criminal Sanity, and White Knight are all stories in their own world that are selling (or have sold) extremely well. DC’s top fifteen issues sold for January to March of this year include seven issues of Batman, one issue of Wonder Woman, one issue of Flash, and then two issues of Unkillables, the Robin 80th oneshot, Strange Adventures (its own continuity), and an issue of Batman: Curse of the White Knight. If you go farther down, it’s more of the same - you have to go through every issue of Curse of the White Knight released, as well as Criminal Sanity, to get to Batman/Superman, Detective Comics, Justice League, and Superman.

I’m not sure this is the best choice, but I can’t imagine it’s not an appealing choice just the same.

Option Two: Fix Shared Continuity.

Without question, DC’s going to be (at least temporarily) paring down the number of books they have, and there’s never been a better time for figuring out what’s going on with their continuity. Less books means less to organize. A reboot and one very determined editor could help establish a baseline to work from, but that would require DC to focus on it as a priority.

I’m sure this is the choice most people will lean for, but it’s definitely the more intensive option, and we can only hope DC decides it’s worth it.

#analysis #dc critical

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astrid-goes-for-a-spin · 4 years

Link

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: The Flash (TV 2014), Supergirl (TV 2015), Batwoman (TV 2019), DC's Legends of Tomorrow (TV), Arrow (TV 2012), Black Lightning (TV) Rating: Not Rated Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Iris West & Kate Kane, Barry Allen/Iris West Characters: Iris West, Kate Kane, Kara Danvers, Ava Sharpe, Thea Queen, Sara Lance, Wally West, Kendra Saunders, Ray Palmer, Nate Heywood, Nia Nal, Samantha Clayton, William Clayton, Barry Allen, Mary Hamilton (mentioned), Alice (mentioned), Alex Danvers (mentioned), Laurel Lance (mentioned), Chloe Sullivan (mentioned), Gary Greene (mentioned), Cisco Ramon (mentioned), Peter Gambi (mentioned), Jennifer Pierce (mentioned), Perenna (mentioned), Superman (mentioned), Lois Lane (mentioned) Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Coffee Shops & Cafés, Coffeeshop AU, gratuitous crossovers, full on mixing all five shows here, and stealing from Smallville, Women Being Awesome, Iris is a spy, spy Iris West, Jitters is a front for the JLA, boss Kate Kane, Kate runs the coffeeshop, Alex and Ava and Lyla run the JLA, kid William Clayton, William's love of the Flash, Fluff without Plot, friendship fluff, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, Cisco and Gambi are buds, who run the world, women, time bros, i have squeezed every possible reference in Series: Part 5 of Iris Week 2020 Summary:

Iris Week 2020 Day 5: Coffeeshop AU!

Iris’s paycheck might say she’s a barista, but it’s been a long time since she’s had any reservations about her real job: taking the temperature of the crowds they use to mask the underground Justice League headquarters.

@iriswestallenweek

____________________________

for the tumblr crowd, here’s the full text!

“Don’t tell anyone,” Iris repeats mockingly to herself, “But I have it on good authority that one of the regulars here is Batwoman.” Scoffing, Iris slams the cash register closed. She gets a few of these fringe people every week, insisting to her that the data shows that Jitters just has to be the locus of all the superheroes Iris can imagine.

Iris is great at customer service: she’ll smile and ask “Oh, really? Should I be watching out for Black Canary in the morning rush?” and scooch into the unoccupied chair across from the newest theorist, and this is almost always a good strategy to get the down-low.

Ripping the rag off her shoulder, Iris goes through the kitchen, dodging colleagues, and raps at Kate’s door.

“Yeah?”

“Your sister thinks Batwoman’s a regular here,” Iris says, rolling her eyes as Kate stares over the computer screen. “Are you ever gonna tell her? Because one day she’s gonna tell that theory to the wrong friendly face.”

Kate lets out a very small groan. “Mary?”

“If it was your other sister we’d be in a lot more trouble, because I think Kara would’ve vaporized her,” Iris says. “Kate, we need a better front. Literally anything. Casino?”

“I’ve been telling her,” Kara says herself, materializing at Iris’s elbow. Iris doesn’t even jump anymore. “Alex says the funds just aren’t here.”

“You have no idea how much money my family is worth,” Thea shouts from the depths of the kitchen, clearly eavesdropping.

“Are you even working?” Sara shouts back.

“Like you’re one to talk, babe,” Ava says, stepping off the elevator and appraising Sara’s makeshift pull-up bar in the freezer doorway. “Iris, did you say you have a new conspiracy theorist?”

“Kate still hasn’t told her sister, and now Mary’s telling me about it,” Iris reports. “Other than Mary, I’ve still got crazy Chloe Sullivan, who fully believes Superman works here, and Gary Greene, who is becoming uncomfortably...Gary.”

“Can someone help out front, please?” Kendra calls through the kitchen. “It’s getting very busy!”

“I’m comin’!” Wally says, juggling hand-whipped milk and fancy batter for pastries Iris can’t name – one of the many perks of a speedster on the staff. Kara snatches the bowl of batter as he passes and disappears off toward the ovens, heat vision starting to glow.

“Yeah, I’m heading back out,” Iris sighs, rapping Kate’s door again. “Seriously. We could be anything, this is just exhausting. Gambi and Cisco have a petition running around the lower levels to switch to a tailor’s.”

“Too many people come through here to ignore,” Ava says. “If you really need, I’ll ask around to see if we can get someone else in here to lighten your load.”

“I hear Lois Lane is great at this kinda thing,” Iris snarks. Kara barks a laugh from the other side of the kitchen. It’s a good point; Lois is pushy and brassy and all wrong for this kind of work. Iris needs spies. Or therapists. Would Jen’s meta-therapist – Perenna, right? – be a good source? “Yeah, I’m going.”

When Iris reemerges into the hustle of the coffeeshop proper, she takes a moment to readjust. While they do hate the conspiracy theorists, it’s because they are right; if a hero isn’t working at Jitters, they’re definitely connected here in other ways. Iris has a panic button on her phone and her keys for just that reason: she’s a walking compendium of secret identities.

“You take the orders, Ray,” Iris says as she passes him, patting his shoulder. Ray is perhaps the only person Iris knows who actually enjoys customer service, and he makes an excellent human shield for just this reason. “I’m going to call out orders.”

For a bit, Iris can just lose herself in the flow of the work. It’s nice, at least, to be paid a living wage and know she’s safe and that she works among friends. Ray cheerfully listens to what Iris considers to be ridiculous names for beverages, Nate makes them, hip-checking Ray every other order, and hands them off to Iris, who calls out names. Nia is on cash register, and Iris can’t believe she’s been as patient as she has with them high-fiving over her head.

“Two hot chocolates for Samantha?” Iris calls. A woman she vaguely recognizes hurries up to the counter, and Iris stares at her face, trying to memorize the details in case they’re the key to Iris’s memory: long dark hair parted exactly in the middle, wide, tired eyes, thin nose, pale skin. It’s not until Iris notices the little boy tucked into her side that it clicks.

“Hey, what’cha got there?” Iris asks conspiratorially. William Clayton looks up at her with adorable gentle curiosity. “Is that a Flash action figure?”

“He loves the Flash,” Samantha says, and Iris nods sagely. “We went to the parade this year and William saw him run past, I think it was the happiest moment of his entire life.”

Now that Iris is looking, she sees a lot of other Flash-related details on Oliver’s son: a backpack full of the lightning insignia; red-and-gold shoelaces. His fingers worry and worry at the figure; he drops it and quickly picks it back up.

The bell at the door tinkles, and when Iris sees who’s coming in, she smiles wide.

“Hey,” Iris whispers. “You really love the Flash?”

William nods eagerly. Iris looks over his head and makes eye contact with her boyfriend.

“I can promise you,” Iris says, her gaze still pinned to Barry, “He comes through here at least every Tuesday.”

#iwaw2020 #iris week 2020 #iris west #coffeeshop au #iris is a spy #and jitters is a front for the justice league #the flash #legends of tomorrow #batwoman #black lightning #arrow

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tangled23works · 4 years

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Way Down We Go Pt 2

Read on Ao3

or keep reading here:

The emergency lights kicked lending the space an ethereal glow. Under other circumstances it would be considered romantic. If they didn't mean that she was now trapped in a metal box with Starling City's prodigal son. Her glasses had fallen off somewhere but she had to untangle herself from Oliver Queen in order to find them. Felicity gasped as she tried to get up. This however meant that she had to put more weight on the Mayor’s body. Needless to say, she ended up touching him in places other women would beg to touch.

“Why are you so hard?” she asked trying to figure out if he was really as much a fitness freak as the tabloids reported.

He made a weird noise like he was choking. Felicity looked at him perplexed as she finally located her discarded glasses behind his head and put them on. Then she replayed her last words in her mind.

“Oh!”

Mayor Queen just pressed a hand to his mouth. Felicity began a heartfelt - if somewhat - incoherent apology before she realized that he wasn’t mortified. Nope. The bastard was actually laughing.

“Oomf, let me get up, you..." She struggled to find an appropriate insult, "You’re so immature Mr. Thick Thickety Thickface!”

“What did you call me?”

He hadn’t stopped laughing and his blue eyes were sparkling with amusement and mischief.

“Thickface. You know. Like from Doctor Who.”

“Who?”

“For TARDIS’s sake, I’m stuck in an elevator with a man who hasn’t even heard of Doctor Who.”

She paused for a second looking around. She was actually stuck in there, wasn’t she? Odd, she hadn't considered herself claustrophobic but the fact that she was closed-in and had no way to escape made her hyperventilate. Felicity tried to get a deep breath but realized she couldn’t. Being familiar with panic attacks since her college days didn't mean she could easily defeat them. She hugged herself and backed away.

“What’s wrong?”

He sounded completely serious now. He was even using his mayoral voice. It was deep, full of concern and really attractive, not that she would ever tell him that.

“I can’t help you if you don’t tell me what’s the matter.”

“We’re stuck here, you dufus! And I just realized something. I think I’m afraid of narrow cramped spaces.”

“You think?”

“Fine. I know I’m afraid. Happy?”

He muttered something unintelligible and pulled out a slick iPhone. Technology! Felicity had left all her things at the office but surely he hadn’t. Why hadn’t she thought of that? Instead she had gone from insulting the Mayor to panicking in front of him.

Great, Felicity. Just great.

Relief flooded her body and she sat down in the corner. She might as well get comfortable while waiting for rescue. Judging by his ‘hello’ the Mayor managed to get somebody on the line. Probably poor Denise who was the most efficient person Felicity had ever met. Which was good because it meant that their time together was coming to an end. Quite literally since this was Felicity’s last day on the job.

“How soon can you get us out of here?”

Whatever the other person’s reply was, he didn’t look pleased.

“Fine,” he said and pinched the bridge of his nose. “Can you call Makayla and warn her? Tell her she can wait at the loft. I’ll be home as soon as I can.”

Felicity grimaced. Of course he had a date. It was Friday night, the man was single and half of Starling was in love with him. Women must wait in queues for the chance to go out with the mayor. Makayla must be a supermodel or influencer. Or perhaps a youtuber? Felicity shuddered at the thought.

While she had been pondering Makayla's profession, he had put the phone back in his pocket and he didn’t look happy.

“So, we’re not leaving anytime soon huh?”

“Unfortunately, no.” He rolled his shoulders and crossed his ankles. “Do you still feel anxious?”

“Don’t talk about that! I’m fine talking literally about anything else. Just don’t remind me-”

“That you’re stuck in an elevator with me. I heard.”

His voice wasn’t that soft now. He actually sounded prissy. Felicity had to admit that she hadn’t been very welcoming in the past but she had a good reason for that. Also, she never said that she minded being trapped with him specifically.

She cleared her throat. “It’s better that you’re here to be honest. It would have been so much worse if I had been stuck all by myself.”

He stared at her in surprise. “Do you know that’s the first kind thing you have ever said to me, Miss Smoak?”

Felicity smoothed her polka dot dress to avoid looking at him. “Umm, you can call me Felicity you know. After all, I already called you a dufus and a thickface.”

He smiled. And not his fake ‘everything will be okay’ politician’s smile but a real one. She could tell from the way his eyes crinkled at the corners and an adorable dimple appeared on his face. Felicity smiled back feeling absurdly pleased.

“And you can call me Oliver, Felicity. I prefer it to dufus anyway.”

She almost shook his hand but since she had been working at City Hall for more than two years it would be totally crazy.

“Just keep talking to me, Oliver. So that I don’t panic again.”

He loosened his tie and considered her.

“Shall we play a game?”

Felicity gave him a sideways glance. It wouldn’t do to forget that this man was a notorious playboy.

“What kind of game?” she asked, narrowing her eyes.

He lifted his arms in surrender. “Hey, I live with an eleven-year-old these days. We play guessing games in the car to school so that he doesn't get bored. What did you think I was talking about?”

Felicity winced. She had put her foot in her mouth. Again. People tended to disregard the fact that he was the father of a young boy and not the man who frequented Verdant, getting drunk and sleeping with pretty socialites. Apparently she was guilty of making the same mistake.

“How about twenty questions? I would suggest ‘I spy’ but we would be done in about thirty seconds in here.”

Oliver flashed her a half-smile and nodded. “Me first.” He was quiet for a few moments. “What is Doctor Who?”

Felicity tsked. “Your knowledge of popular culture is sorely lacking if you don’t know the answer to that. Doctor Who is a British science fiction show. It would take me years to properly explain it because it’s been running since 1963.”

“1963?” he asked, full of awe.

Felicity giggled at his expression. “Fans of the show are called whovians.”

“Now you’re pulling my leg.”

“Nope.” She couldn’t help but add, “There is a time machine on the show. Also, aliens and monsters.”

“And I thought that Keeping Up With The Kardashians is the weirdest thing on TV.”

“You don’t know Doctor Who but you know the Kardashians?”

He laughed openly at her outrage. “Your turn, Felicity.”

“They say you have a tattoo. True or false?”

“True.”

“Where? What is it?” Felicity had always been fascinated by tattoos. She was too afraid of needles to ever consider getting one herself but the thought that Starling City’s mayor was hiding a tattoo underneath those Armani suits… It was hot. Undeniably hot.

“The one they’re talking about is on my left shoulder. It’s a dragon.”

“You got more than one?”

“Yes.”

“Curiouser and curiouser!”

“That I recognize. It’s from Alice in Wonderland, right?”

Felicity was surprised he recognized that iconic line. “Your son likes fairytales?”

“No. Thea went through a whole fairytale phase when she was little. Mom had to read her this one for a bedtime story everyday for a year. We had Alice in Wonderland tea parties and I was always the Mad Hatter.”

She tried to picture him wearing a top hat and sipping from a delicate teacup and failed. The man the city had voted as mayor two years ago was too serious and too sexy to play dress up with a little girl. Although the fact that he was willing to do that for his sister earned him a lot of brownie points.

“Are there incriminating pictures?”

“No.” He answered so quickly that his denial had to be a lie. “That was your fifth question, Felicity. It’s my turn now.”

“Ugh, fine.”

“You’d rather be the one asking the questions, wouldn’t you?”

“I can’t help it. You’re kind of intriguing.”

“Yes,” he said, accepting the compliment because it was true, “but it’s more than that.”

“I’m not that interesting, Oliver.”

“I beg to differ. You’re very interesting. And you owe me three more questions before it’s your turn again.”

Wrinkling her nose, she crossed her arms and silently gave him permission to go ahead.

“Do you have any brothers or sisters?”

“Mr. Mayor that is the most boring question in the history of this game.”

“Humor me, Felicity. You know everything about my family,” his voice slightly mocking, “but I know nothing about yours.”

“Well, since you told me about your Alice in Wonderland tea parties…” she began. Oliver chuckled in a way that showed he enjoyed her teasing so she went on, “I have no siblings. That I know of.”

He tilted his head and a furrow appeared on his forehead. “What is that supposed to mean?”

“That’s a story for another time.”

She thought that her refusal to answer the question would bring a hundred more. But she should have known that being a Queen meant that he had spent most of his life avoiding noisy people and indiscreet questions.

“What’s your favorite color?”

“Blue. Red. It depends on the day. Yours?”

“Green. But it’s still my turn, Felicity.”

“Okay, okay.”

“What is your favorite superhero?”

“The Green Arrow.”

“Who?”

“Really, Oliver? You haven’t heard of the Emerald Archer?”

And as he shook his head she proceeded to tell him the story of one of the most underappreciated superheroes of all time. At least in her opinion.

What followed was the most comfortable and fun conversation she had ever had with a man. She tried (and failed) to educate him about Marvel and DC. He tried (and miserably failed) to educate her about sports and his favorite team, the Blue Jays. Who would have thought that the guy she had been avoiding like the plague was so easy to talk to? Most of all she was impressed by the way he was able to laugh at himself and his previous lifestyle. He answered everything she threw at him (even the one about the infamous cop incident) and she purposefully stayed away from questions revolving around his son. Since he had respected her privacy before, it was no hardship for her to respect his. They discussed everything you were supposed to talk about on a first date but without the pressure and sweating that usually accompanied first dates. Felicity felt free to be herself without worrying about being too awkward or annoying.

Oliver glanced at his watch. “I think the fire department will be here soon.”

“Oh, right.” Felicity hadn’t even thought of the time for the past twenty minutes.

“Can I ask you something personal?”

“Okay,” she replied, feeling a bit apprehensive.

“Is this really your last day? You’re leaving us?”

Felicity gulped and nodded.

“Are you going to start your own company or something?”

She pressed her lips into a thin line.

“No. Actually, I got an offer from PalmerTech.”

He scoffed. “Ray Palmer?”

She crossed her arms defensively. “What’s wrong with Ray Palmer? He’s a good guy and a wonderful boss. Not to mention that his company is on the top of Fortune 500.”

He removed his jacket with a little bit more violence than the action required. “He’s a douche, Felicity. Plain and simple. Did you know that last month he approached me about renaming the city? As if we would change the name of a whole city just because Ray thinks Star City sounds more modern than Starling?”

“Star City is not a bad suggestion.”

He ran a hand through his hair and glowered at her. “Do you know what a starling is?”

“Sure. It’s a bird.”

“History says that there were no starlings in the United States until a man released 60 of them in Central Park back in the 1900s. According to legend, a shepherd was walking across a field when he heard someone calling for help. He ran towards the voice but couldn’t see anyone. Then the voice called to him from the top of a tree. It was a small bird who could speak like a human. She claimed-”

“The bird was a woman?” Felicity asked, fascinated.

“Of course it was a woman. Wouldn’t be much of a legend otherwise. Anyway, the woman said that her name was Jocelyn and that an evil queen had cursed her to become a bird when she had refused to marry her son. The problem was that the son was the Devil himself.”

“If the Devil looked like Lucifer she wouldn't have said no.”

Oliver didn't pay attention to her irreverence and went on, “So the hero promised to fight the Devil himself and the evil queen for her. He only asked for one thing in return.”

“Let me guess. She had to marry the shepherd when the fight was over.”

“Correct.” Oliver rolled his sleeves up, totally derailing Felicity’s train of thought. There was a vein running along his forearm which drew her gaze like a magnet. “Once they had an agreement, he tapped the ground twice with his crook. It opened to reveal a downwards path leading to the gates of Hell. While the little starling was waiting, the shepherd went down the path and entered Hell. He didn’t return for 320 days.”

“Should have been named Penelope and not Jocelyn,” Felicity muttered.

Oliver let out a startled laugh but continued with the story. “Of course, he came back victorious and proud of himself. The little bird was free and was now a beautiful woman. She married him and they spent the rest of their days raising a family here and building a town called Starling to commemorate the way they met.”

Felicity scrunched her nose. “It’s not a bad story.”

“That’s not the point.”

“Then what is the point, Mr. Mayor?”

“That we come from somewhere. Our city may not be old itself but it is deeply rooted in history. We don’t want to forget that, Felicity. Forgetting where you come from means you’ll eventually forget where you are headed.”

She didn’t say anything out loud but his words had hit a nerve. Wasn’t she guilty of that? Hadn’t she moved a thousand miles away from Cambridge just to avoid the past? Wasn’t she doing the exact same thing every time a man asked her out? She exhaled slowly, suddenly feeling very disappointed in herself.

“I didn’t tell you the story to make you sad, Felicity.”

She peered at him over her glasses. “It’s not your fault. It’s just… Having an epiphany while being trapped in an elevator sucks.”

Oliver gave her another one of his genuine smiles.

“Anyway, I’ll make sure to tell Ray that our city doesn’t need a name change.”

He ignored her comment. “Did you have big plans for tonight? Seeing that this was your last day working here.”

“Big Belly and red wine.”

"I have never tried Big Belly burger," he confessed.

"But you must! The moment we're out of here you should ask Mr. Diggle to take you. It's in the Glades though and I know that the previous Mayor rarely ventured there but you have to try it at least once. It's full of grease and salt."

"Ah, the secret ingredients," he teased.

Felicity laughed. "What about you? Do you have any big plans for tonight?" she asked even though she wasn't sure she wanted to know more about his date with Makayla, the supermodel.

“My son has,” he stole a glance at his watch again, “well, had to present a science project this evening. I was supposed to be there for him.”

“I’m sorry.” An inadequate sentiment but she meant it.

“It’s okay. He’s used to being disappointed by his parents.”

The offhand comment prickled her curiosity. "What does that mean exactly?"

"You've heard the story. My family paid Samantha - William's mother - a lot of money to disappear. And she did for about ten years."

"But she's back now, isn't she? You live with William after all."

"Samantha decided that she had enough of being a single parent. Last year she left William with me and moved to Central City. She visits him every other weekend."

There was more to it of course. Felicity thought over his words. He didn't say that he paid Samantha Clayton, he said that his family paid her. The press considered it the same thing, but the distinction was important to Felicity. Also, the fact that the boy's mother had chosen to abandon her child with a father he barely knew was incomprehensible. Fathers were the ones who were not reliable based on her experience. People could count on their mothers to always be there. Come hell or high water.

One thing was for sure. She had grossly misjudged Oliver Queen.

#olicity fanfic #way down we go #part 2 #my fic updates #elevator trope #stay safe people #and keep reading

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jbuffyangel · 5 years

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Entertainment Weekly Arrow Article

We never get any big articles of Arrow, so yeah I am posting the whole damn thing. There were some interesting little tidbits and of course discussion around Emily Bett Rickards’ exit. Is it wrong that I am low key pissed that of course Arrow gets the cover of EW after she leaves? Is it also wrong that while I’m happy Arrow is getting some attention, I’m annoyed it wasn’t an Olicity cover? Cuz that’s where I am at. (X)

How Arrow saved the TV superhero — and why it had to end

As 'Arrow' prepares for the end, Stephen Amell and the producers reflect on its origin story and preview the 'Crisis'-bound eighth and final season.

Stephen Amell is dreading the eighth and final season of Arrow, though you wouldn’t know it on this hot, sunny July day in Los Angeles. Wearing Green Arrow’s new suit, the CW star seems perfectly at ease as he strikes heroic pose after heroic pose on a dimly lit stage. But once he’s traded heavy verdant leather for a T-shirt, jeans, and baseball cap, his guard drops and the vulnerability starts to creep in as he contemplates Arrow’s last 10 episodes, which was set to begin production in Vancouver a week after the EW photoshoot took place and premieres Oct. 15.

“I’m very emotional and melancholy, but it’s time,” Amell — who is featured on the new cover of Entertainment Weekly — says as he takes a sip from a pint of Guinness. “I’m 38 years old, and I got this job when I was 30. I’d never had a job for more than a year. The fact that I’ve done this for the better part of a decade, and I’m not going to do it anymore, is a little frightening.”

Developed by Greg Berlanti, Marc Guggenheim, and Andrew Kreisberg, Arrow debuted in the fall of 2012. The DC Comics series follows billionaire playboy Oliver Queen (Amell), who, after years away, returned to now–Star City with one goal: to save his home-town as the hooded bow-and-arrow vigilante who would become known as Green Arrow (it would take him four seasons to assume the moniker). What began as a solo crusade eventually grew to include former soldier John Diggle (David Ramsey), quirky computer genius Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), lawyer-turned-hero Laurel Lance/Black Canary (Katie Cassidy Rodgers), and the rest of Team Arrow. Together they’ve defended their city from a host of threats — dark archers, megalomaniacal magicians, and the occasional metahuman — while Lost-like flashbacks revealed what Oliver endured in the five years he was away, first shipwrecked and then honing his skills around the world to become someone else, something else.

The premiere gave The CW its most-watched series debut since 2009’s The Vampire Diaries. But before they launched Arrow, Berlanti and Guggenheim had to suffer through a failure: 2011’s Green Lantern, starring Ryan Reynolds. The duo co-wrote the script but lost creative control of the film, which flopped. So when Warner Bros. Television president Peter Roth approached them in late 2011 about developing a Green Arrow show, they were wary. After much deliberation, Berlanti and Guggenheim agreed, on the condition that they maintain control. Says Guggenheim, “As long as we succeed or fail on our own work, and not someone else’s work then maybe this is worth a shot.”

Their take on the Emerald Archer — who made his DC Comics debut in 1941 — was noteworthy from the beginning. Taking cues from films like The Dark Knight and The Bourne Identity and series like Homeland, the writers imagined a dark, gritty, and grounded show centered on a traumatized protagonist. “As we were breaking the story, we made very specific commitments to certain tonal things, such as ‘At the end of act 1, he has his hands around his mother’s throat.’ And, ‘At the end of act 2, he kills a man in cold blood to protect his secret,’ ” says Guggenheim.

A hero committing murder? That was practically unheard of then. Having Oliver suit up in a veritable superhero costume by the pilot’s climax was radical too. Sure, the Marvel Cinematic Universe was deep into Phase One when the producers were developing Arrow, but TV was traditionally more apprehensive about comic books. Smallvillefamously had a “no tights, no flights” rule and only introduced superhero costumes in the last years of its 10-season run, and there weren’t any masked avengers running around NBC’s Heroes or ABC’s No Ordinary Family, the latter produced by Berlanti (Let’s not even mention NBC’s The Cape, which was essentially dead on arrival and never did get its six seasons and a movie). But Arrow not only fully committed to the idea of someone dressing up like Robin Hood to fight crime with a bow and arrow, it introduced a second costumed rogue, the Huntress (Jessica De Gouw), in episode 7.

“It’s just comic book to the extreme and the fans seem to really love it,” says Batwomanshowrunner Caroline Dries, a former writer on Smallville. “They still maintain it very grounded, but it’s very different with everyone in costumes. The appetite for superheroes has changed in my mind in terms of like they just want the literal superhero [now].”

Not that the team wasn’t meticulous about creating Green Arrow’s cowl. “We had to have so many conversations to get it approved, but that’s why we got [Oscar winner] Colleen Atwood [Memoirs of a Geisha] at the time to [design] the suit,” says Berlanti. “We were determined to show we could do on TV what they were doing in the movies every six months.”

“It’s really easy to make a guy with a bow and arrow look silly. We sweated every detail,” says Guggenheim, who also recalls how much effort it took to perfect Oliver’s signature growl. “I actually flew up to Vancouver. On a rooftop during reshoots on [episode 4], Stephen and I went through a variety of different versions of, basically, ‘You have failed this city,’ with different amounts of how much growl he’s putting into his performance. [We] recorded all that, [I went] back to Los Angeles, and then sat with the post guys playing around with all the different amounts of modulation.”

That process took eons compared to the unbelievably easy time the team had casting Arrow’s title role. In fact, Amell was the first person to audition for the role. “It was Stephen’s intensity. He just made you believe he was that character,” says Guggenheim, recalling Amell’s audition. “We had crafted Oliver to be this mystery box character, and Stephen somehow managed to find this balance between being totally accessible in a way you would need a TV star to be, but he’s still an enigma.” After his first reading, Amell remembers being sent outside for a short time before being brought back into the room to read for a larger group: “I called [my manager], and I go, ‘I know this is not how it’s supposed to work, but I just got that job.’”

In the first season, the show’s chief concerns were maintaining both the “grounded and real” tone and the high quality of the stunts, and investing the audience in Oliver’s crusade. Beyond that, though, there wasn’t much of an over-arching plan, which allowed the show to naturally evolve — from introducing more DC characters, such as Deathstroke (Manu Bennett) and Roy Harper (Colton Haynes), sooner than they initially intended (the shot of Deathstroke’s mask in the pilot was meant as a harmless Easter egg), to promoting Emily Bett Rickards’ Felicity from a one-off character in the show’s third episode to a series regular in season 2 and eventually Oliver’s wife. Even the whole idea of a Team Arrow — which, over time, added Oliver’s sister Thea (Willa Holland), Rene Ramirez/Wild Dog (Rick Gonzalez) and Dinah Drake/Black Canary (Juliana Harkavy) — was the result of the writers allowing the best ideas to guide the story. “Greg used to say all the time, ‘You have a hit TV show until you don’t, so don’t save s—,’ ” says Amell.

Also not planned: Arrow spawning an entire shared universe. “We went on record a lot of times during the premiere of the pilot saying, ‘No superpowers, no time travel.’ But midway through season 1, Greg started to harbor a notion of doing the Flash,” says Guggenheim. “I’m a very big believer that it’s great to have a plan, but I think when it comes to creating a universe, the pitfall is that people try to run before they can walk. The key is, you build it show by show.” And so they did. First, they introduced The Flash star Grant Gustin’s Barry Allen in the two-part midseason finale of Arrow’s second season. From there, Supergirl took flight in 2015, then DC’s Legends of Tomorrow in 2016, and Batwoman is due this fall. “It’s like the hacking of the machete in the woods and then you look back and you’re like, ‘Oh, there’s a path,” says executive producer and Berlanti Productions president Sarah Schechter. But even though Arrowis the universe’s namesake, Amell doesn’t concern himself with the sibling series outside of the now-annual crossovers. “I never think about any of the other shows,” he says. “I want all of them to do great, but they’re not my responsibility. My responsibility is Arrow, and to make sure everyone from the cast to the crew are good.” His sentiments are seconded by Flash’s Gustin: “I don’t understand how he does it — his schedule that he maintains with working out, the conventions he goes to, the passion he has for it, and the love he shows towards fans. He’s always prepared. He cares more about that show being high quality than anybody else on the set.”

That said, the universe’s expansion precipitated what is widely considered to be Arrow’s best season, the fifth one. After focusing on magic in season 4, the show returned to its street-crime roots as part of “a concerted effort to play not just to our strengths but what made the shows unique,” Guggenheim says of balancing their four super-series in 2016. “Because Arrow was the longest-running Arrowverse show, we were able to do something that none of the other shows could do, which is have a villain who was basically born out of the events of season 1,” he explains of introducing Adrian Chase/Prometheus (Josh Segarra), whose criminal father was killed by Oliver. “That gave the season a resonance.”

It was midway through season 6 when Amell realized he was ready to hang up Oliver Queen’s hood. “It was just time to move on,” the actor says of pitching that Oliver leave the series at the end of season 7. “My daughter is turning six in October, and she goes to school in L.A., and my wife and I want to raise her [there].” Berlanti persuaded him to return for one final season, which the producers collectively decided would be the end. “We all felt in our gut it was the right time,” says Berlanti. Adds Schechter, “It’s such a privilege to be able to say when something’s ending as opposed to having something just ripped away.”

But there’s one integral cast member who won’t be around to see Arrow through its final season. This spring, fans were devastated to learn Rickards had filmed her final episode—bringing an end to Olicity. “They’re such opposites. I think that’s what draws everyone in a little bit,” showrunner Beth Schwartz says of Oliver and Felicity’s relationship. “You don’t see the [love story of] super intelligent woman and the sort of hunky, athletic man very often. She’s obviously a gorgeous woman but what he really loves is her brain.” For his part, Amell believes the success of both Felicity and Olicity lies completely with Rickards’ performance. “She’s supremely talented and awesome and carved out a space that no one anticipated. I don’t know that show works if we don’t randomly find her,” says Amell, adding that continuing the series without Team Arrow’s heart is “not great. Arrow, as you know it, has effectively ended. It’s a different show in season 8.” And he’s not exaggerating.

The final season finds Oliver working for the all-seeing extra-terrestrial the Monitor (LaMonica Garrett) and trying to save the entire multiverse from a cataclysmic event. “[We’re] taking the show on the road, really getting away from Star City. Oliver is going to be traveling the world, and we’re going to go to a lot of different places,” says Guggenheim. “Every time I see Oliver and the Monitor, it’s like, ‘Okay, we are very far from where we started.’ But again, that means the show has grown and evolved.” Adds Schwartz, “This is sort of his final test because it’s greater than Star City.” Along the way, he will head down memory lane, with actor Colin Donnell, who played Oliver’s best friend Tommy Merlyn in season 1, and Segarra’s Adrian Chase making appearances. “Episode 1 is an ode to season 1, and episode 2 is an ode to season 3,” teases Amell. “We’re playing our greatest hits.”

But season 8 is not just about building toward a satisfying series finale. “Everything relates to what’s going to happen in our crossover episode, which we’ve never done before,” says Schwartz. Spanning five hours and airing this winter, “Crisis on Infinite Earths” will be the biggest crossover yet and may see Oliver perish trying to save the multiverse from destruction, if the Monitor’s prophecy is to be believed. “Oliver [is told] he’s going to die, so each episode in the run-up to ‘Crisis’ has Oliver dealing with the various stages of grief that come with that discovery,” says Guggenheim. “So the theme really is coming to terms, acceptance.”

If there’s one person who has made his peace with Oliver’s fate, it’s Amell. “Because he’s a superhero with no superpowers, I always felt he should die — but he may also not die,” says Amell, who actually found out what the show’s final scene would be at EW’s cover shoot. “I cried as [Marc Guggenheim] was telling me. There are a lot of hurdles to get over to make that final scene.” Get this man some more Guinness!

#arrow #arrow season 8 #stephen amell #marc guggenheim #arrow interviews #oliver queen #olicity #emily bett rickards #felicity smoak #arrow spoilers #spoiler theoretical

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frostygar · 4 years

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Arrow S7 Ep2 Thoughts

- Oliver’s so annoyed with this dude calling himself his friend lmaooo

- The gang back together (almost) we love to see it! It’s low-key kinda sad that they’re much better without Oliver… like they’re more interesting and flow well.

- Laurel using her powers to ditch her security detail, I’ve missed her 😜😜

- RENE AND LAUREL’S FUCKING KNUCKLE BUMP YESSSSSS we stan this friendship!!!! I love Curtis being all worried, it’s cute. And yes overaggressive Felicity is low-key annoying but I can pass over it because at least it’s not because of her relationship with Oliver (that controls everything) it’s HER. Anyways… now they’re in deep shit by compromising ARGUS’s active investigation and I hope that doesn’t affect Curtis’s job there 🥺🥺

- Okay it’s been awhile since I worked on this and I like… these four thoughts are from like HALF an episode??? Wow either I don’t care to comment on everything like I do with Riverdale or basically nothing is happening. Anyways, let’s hope I can get through this!

- And THIS is why we work TOGETHER. A.R.G.U.S. is such a weird company or whatever like they work with these kinds of people but then they don’t and also keep them in the dark… like you really have to make everything harder than it needs to be huh lol

- I never wanted to hear “WWGAD” but to answer: he’d be a hero, yet not at the same time then whine about how he WANTS to be a hero but can’t because of something holding him back that’s usually just himself……… Riverdale has me salty (even if the last musical episode was literally the best episode they’ve ever made) and forgetting how I feel about Arrow lmao SORRY

- LMAO OLIVER REALLY JUST WENT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE FLASHLIGHTS AND THEY JUST LET HIM PASS. I know he’s supposed to but I just found it hilarious

- Ahh, there’s that “here’s something I don’t have a skill on but for plot sake I’ll suddenly have it” :) Reminds me of Iris suddenly knowing how to do shit and “leading” the group and I despise it thank you and goodbye

- OH YEAH THE FLASH FORWARDS WITH WILLIAM AND ROY!!

- Why is Diggle giving up on saving Oliver—

- Not Diggle thinking it’s selfish of him for not putting on the Hood to save his family. It’s not, at all. It’s actually very smart of him.

- Oh we fucking KNOW Felicity is too impulsive to not go off on her own despite saying she’d do it the A.R.G.U.S. way. She’s going to get greedy and fuck everything up. How I know? This is DC and it’s exactly what Iris would do.

- That Laurel bit of her stepping into silence? Fucking AMAZING. AND THEN SHOWING DINAH WITH NOISE AND GOING BACK? I don’t even know why I like it so much… god I am PATHETIC

- DINAH AND LAUREL USING THEIR SONIC SCREAMS TO DESTROY THE SILENCER WHAT A FUCKING POWER MOVE!!! They should work together more instead of having Dinah be like the good enemy kind of person if that makes any sense

- JUST FUCKING KILL DIAZ YOU HAVE HIM IN YOUR FUCKING SIGHTS JESUS

- The length of that fire gun is not fair but it’s okay because Diggle just did the coolest fucking move—

- Now how is Felicity going to fuck this up for no reason??? Ahhhh,,, well thankfully Curtis isn’t a dumb bitch blinded by an obsession with Oliver.

- William watches as Roy burns the paper and does nothing to even TRY to stop it lmao okay

- Why does Dinah helping Laurel make Laurel want protection from the SCPD??? It makes no sense… Also I just thought about Diaz, and why not just send people to collect him and the others on the train cart that would have to slow down before they get off—

- Oh 👀👀👀 anyways is there a ship name for Dinah and Laurel so I can jump on the train that’ll definitely not go anywhere because I clearly hate myself lol

- OH MY GOD I WAS NOT EXPECTING THAT?!?!?!! OLIVER YOU FUCKING KING!!! But lmao I love that no one helps Oliver at all—

- Not Felicity working for that bitch…….. can Felicity have anything other than obsessing over some guy she shouldn’t be with and barreling into everything head first without thinking? I’m getting Betty Cooper vibes and I hate it because Felicity can be so GOOD if everything of hers didn’t revolve around Oliver and Oliver only…….

- Anyways thank god I’m finally done with this episode…

#Arrow #Oliver Queen #Felicity Smoak #William Queen #John Diggle #Roy Harper #Dinah Lance #Laurel Lance

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radarsteddybear · 4 years

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I stopped watching all the DC superhero shows something like two seasons ago, BUT my dad successfully convinced me to watch the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover with him (it was the Burt Ward cameo at the beginning that did it), so here are some (spoiler-y) thoughts:

Overall, they did a good job of utilizing the characters from each show and crafting a big, five-episode-long story that happened to span five different TV shows without trying to make each episode an episode of the show it technically was (i.e. this one’s Supergirl, so it just has Supergirl characters with some brief appearances from the others, this one’s Batwoman so it just has Batwoman characters with some brief appearances from the others, etc.). While each episode did include side characters specific to the series/superhero, it was seamless enough that I had trouble keeping track of which episode was which series. Big improvement over some past crossovers.

The constant references to this being a crossover were weird. These are not the right type of shows for fourth wall breaking (except maybe Legends of Tomorrow. maybe).

Kevin Conroy as future!Batman was phenomenal. I love how we heard his voice before seeing him as a nod to his long history voicing Batman, and after 30 years of voicing him, he did an incredible job as a live-action Batman. I know it isn’t likely to ever happen again, but I’d watch anything more with Kevin Conroy playing a live-action Batman in a heartbeat (and now I want to rewatch the Justice League cartoon).

It was a little weird, though. I know what Kevin Conroy looks like from following him on Twitter, and I know very well what he sounds like as Batman, but putting those two pieces together was…weird.

There were a lot of things in the crossover that didn’t get enough attention/screen time:

Turning Oliver into the Spectre without any explanation as to who/what the Spectre is? “Hi, I’m Jim Corrigan, and you get to be a Spectre now that you’re dead.” “I have absolutely no idea what that means, and my family came down to the afterlife to bring me back to life, but sure, why not?” What the actual heck??? The whole thing was a bizarre plot device that not only wasn’t properly explored in Crisis, but surely can’t be properly explored in the two remaining episodes of Arrow. Also, the Spectre is a literal ghost; how the heck did he manage to DIE?

Though being the Spectre does make Oliver the ultimate “hood guy.”

The whole getting-Oliver-to-recognize-them-now-that-he’s-dead bit was rushed, too. Why bother to have an entire conversation about it (that probably lasted longer than it took for Oliver to recognize them) if Oliver’s going to recognize them almost right away?

The Monitor giving Cisco back his powers. Talk about a plot device. I don’t know the story behind Cisco giving up his powers, since I stopped watching long before that happened, but the Monitor just shows up, forcibly turns Cisco back into Vibe, and aside from some brief protestation from Cisco, everyone just…goes with it, as if this is a completely normal, non-boundary-crossing thing to do. And, unfortunately, knowing The Flash, I doubt they’re going to give enough screen time to it on that show, either.

The appearance of the “Earth-90” Flash, aka the Flash from the old 90s TV series? AMAZING. In all honesty, I kind of wish our Earth-1 Barry died instead of him (😅). Man, that was a good show. The inclusion of that clip of 90s!Barry and Tina? 👌 And the revelation that Barry and Tina eventually got married? 🎉

I know that Dean Cain has already appeared on Supergirl as Kara’s adoptive father, and Teri Hatcher already appeared as the Daxamite queen, but if John Wesley Shipp can play at least three different characters on The Flash, the two of them (or even just one of them) could have made a cameo as one of the Supermen Lex wanted to kill or something.

Ezra Miller’s cameo seemed to serve very little purpose other than to be a cameo by Ezra Miller, and it was weirdly-placed. An interesting interaction, for sure, but there was absolutely no rhyme or reason to Miller’s presence. Those five minutes would have been better spent explaining the Spectre situation or something.

The cameo of the actual comics Earth-2 at the end??? Incredible. I’m not entirely sure why they went through all the trouble of having a massive, universe-consolidating event only to still have a multiverse at the end of it, but…another appearance by the JSA would be 🔥🔥🔥

The cameo of the Green Lantern Corps was super cool, too (though the IMDb trivia says it’s supposed to be the Corps from the Green Lantern movie, which is less cool).

The president says that Oliver Queen was their first superhero when announcing his death to the world, which…even if we assume that the existence of the Justice Society is a secret, we still have Superman and Batman, who certainly predate their respective cousins’ shows and seem to have fairly long histories*, and now that they’re all of the same Earth…I don’t think Oliver is the first (in-universe) anymore.

I love that everyone’s on the same Earth now! That has so much potential (though I’m still not planning on going back to watching any of those shows). I hope that there are more crossovers, however brief, though I doubt that there will be, based on how tricky that is behind the scenes.

Gleek’s cage at the end! I don’t know what this abandoned Star Labs building is doing with the Wonder Twins’ pet monkey (trapped in a cage, no less…that’s a bit worrying), and I’d be surprised if they ever do anything with him, but it was a nice touch.

*I haven’t seen a single episode of Batwoman so I could be wrong on that front, especially given that the DCTV Universe has been going on for 8 years now. But still.

#/#//#///#////#/////#DC Comics #Crisis on Infinite Earths #Arrow #The Flash #Batwoman #Supergirl #Legends of Tomorrow #Teddy Bear musings #original post

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that-shamrock-vibe · 4 years

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TV Review: Crisis on Infinite Earths (Spoilers)

Part 3: The Flash

Spoiler Warning:

Overview:

Okay, now that is how you do a cliffhanger! While this crossover may not be delivering on a couple of really built up plot points, I’m talking 5 year build-up, as a whole the episode has still managed to kick the gear up and, quite fittingly being The Flash episode, accelerated the story and the anticipation for what is to come in the two-part finalé next month.

But with all but several individuals remaining in reality, is it really down to seven Paragons to save the Multiverse?

Vibe Returns:

I can’t decide whether I’m thrilled or annoyed Cisco has his Metahuman powers back, because whether or not he wanted them...let’s face it he didn’t, he now has them and I don’t think they’re going anyway.

On the plus side, I am happy with this as it gives him something to do, I mean seriously if you’re just going to have a non-powered tech whiz, bring back Felicity Smoak. Cisco is Vibe and he should always be Vibe.

Also he didn’t seem to contribute much to the science in this episode, I mean okay he seemingly helped Ray with his Paragon Detector when Team Flash arrived, who by the way contributed nothing in their own episode as a whole, but even when they were down in the Anti-Monitor’s lair...the reason for him to have his powers back was simply to open the door? Because he didn’t contribute any assistance in destroying the Antimatter Speed Cannon.

I am still waiting to see what The Monitor’s dynastic plan is for bestowing Vibe with his powers again because, we know he’s not a Paragon and as I said all he did was open a door.

I don’t know whether or not Carlos Valdes has served his purpose in the Arrowverse and after de-powering should have simply left last season, but I don’t really see a use for him anymore.

A Flash of Black Lightning:

Alright so Flash, Vibe and Frost go to the Anti-Monitor’s lair where Pariah arrives to bare witness to great pain because that is his job now.

It’s not until we get into the lair that we realise what this great pain is because it is revealed that powering the Antimatter Speed Cannon is The Flash...of Earth-90. John Wesley-Shipp is back after randomly disappearing during Elseworlds but I choose to believe it was for this purpose.

Barry saves Earth-90 Flash from the treadmill of torture but the Anti-Monitor has a fail safe of simply having the cannon blow up wiping out reality instantly if no one is powering it, this leads to what could have been quite an emotional moment had I not predicted the outcome as soon as we saw who was originally on the treadmill.

So Earth-1 Barry sees this moment as his time to “Vanish in Crisis” by reversing the speed of the treadmill thereby destroying the cannon.

While this is going on, Pariah brings in Jefferson Pierce aka Black Lightning from “His Earth”...despite being on the same network his is the only Earth we don’t get a number for...and to temporarily prevent the cannon from blowing up and wiping out reality, he is instructed to either absorb the energy or stabilise it.

As Earth-1 Barry says his “emotional” farewells to Cisco and Caitlin, Earth-90 Barry seizes the opportunity to temporarily steal his speed so that he can be the one to return to the treadmill and “Vanish” stopping the Antimatter...because as he pointed out that newspaper article that we have seen now for 5 years and been reminded of constantly said “The Flash Vanishes in Crisis”, it didn’t say which one...

I call bull! I am sorry but they built this moment up for 5.5 seasons, numerous mentions and the last half a season has been all about the emotion of Barry destined to die in Crisis...yet now he doesn’t die and John Wesley-Shipp’s version who has only been in it once before does?

This “emotional” moment of Earth-90 Barry remembering his wife Tina with a clip from the 90s Flash series was only serving to those who remember that series and as someone who was born a year after it finished I have to say I did not. I contemplated it after the crossover last year but decided not to.

So Earth-90 Flash is now dead and was the prophesied one who “Vanishes in Crisis”, Earth-1 Flash reunites with Iris and Black Lightning joins the crusade.

Dealings With the Devil:

Meanwhile Diggle finally learns that Oliver died and was brought back by the Lazarus Pit as well as Lyla going missing and the need to find Oliver’s soul...because you miss out on two episodes and suddenly you’re out of the loop.

He, Mia and Constantine travel to Earth-666 in the City of Angels Los Angeles, why? Well it seems Tom Ellis is a rather good liar despite his character never lying because Constantine is acquainted with none other than Lucifer Morningstar.

Now I saw an interview just after watching this episode that Tom Ellis did with ET which I will link to here, basically how they’ve made up for the fact that Lucifer is supposed to be ruling hell is that where we meet Lucifer here is during that 5-year period before the start of Season 1 of Lucifer and before he meets Chloe Decker and starts working for the LAPD.

Anyone thinking this is simply a Lucifer doppelganger is incorrect because while there can be doppelgangers of Earths, Humans and Aliens, there is only one Heaven, one Hell, one Limbo, one God and one Devil just as there is only one Monitor and one Anti-Monitor.

Lucifer presents Constantine with a tarot card which grants temporary passage to Limbo but expires quickly which would damn the users souls for all eternity. Oliver’s purgatory is, surprise surprise, a version of Lian Yu and when the trio reunite with Oliver it is Diggle that breaks through to him.

The only issue with bringing him back however is that a new player appears Jim Corrigan, now as Constantine points out this is not Earth-1 Jim Corrigan as that is Emmett J. Scanlan from Constantine and you don’t mess with Scanlan...although it would have been cool to see Lobo in some form here.

No, this is Stephen Lobo...ironic...and he has become The Spectre...who I know absolutely nothing about other than Corrigan is the first of three hosts of Spectre in the comics with the other two being Hal Jordan and Crispus Allen and that one of his enemies is the Anti-Monitor.

However, Lobo seemingly passes on the Spectre to Oliver through a flashing eye sequence and the trio who risked their souls to come and save his vanish leaving Oliver to wander off with Corrigan...what does this mean? We shall find out hopefully.

Paragon Peril:

Alright so, I have no clue how to feel about the Paragons, I said I would wait to make up my mind until all seven had been revealed and now they have.

In addition to the Paragons of Hope, Courage, Truth and Destiny being Supergirl, Batwoman, KC Superman and Sara, Ray’s Paragon Detector reveals that the Paragon of Honor is Martian Manhunter, the Paragon of Love is Earth-1 Flash and the Paragon of Humanity is Ryan Choi...who?

I will get to him shortly but I want to point out that Mar Novu in his rather expositiony voice stated “These Paragons are spread across the Multiverse”...well his dress is clearly on too tight because four of these Paragons are from Earth-1, two are from Earth-38 and one is from Earth-96...how far spread is that exactly?

As for Ryan Choi, who lives in Earth-1 Ivy Town, all I know about him in the comics is that he is the second Atom and an admirer of Ray Palmer. I know him best from Injustice 2 and to be honest think as much of him as I do Ray so...not a lot.

Also the fact he has a wife and daughter reminds me too much of Scott Lang’s Ant-Man, He doesn’t even have a family in the mainstream comics and the fact this is one comparison where Marvel did it first it’s annoying.

My other note is I know Ray is at least stepping down as a main character in Legends of Tomorrow this season, so if they’re setting up Ryan to be the new Atom they’re going to need to establish his likeability a whole lot better.

Anyway, Iris, Ray and Elongated Man...because he needs something to do, go and recruit Ryan Choi who only agrees after Iris reasons with him on a human scale.

Back at the Waverider, everyone reunites as Barry, Cisco and Frost return to inform them all that Earth-90 Flash saved the remainder of the Multiverse, Earth-1, by sacrificing himself. KC Superman has been trying to save other Earths but failing, Constantine, Mia and Diggle return to tell everyone they failed and the attention turns to the fact they now have all seven Paragons.

However, this is where it gets interesting!

So Lyla/Harbinger has been missing all episode and we as fans know she’s with the Anti-Monitor. When she does eventually appear on the Waverider she originally seems to be fine...but then it goes horribly wrong as she is revealed to have been taken over by the Anti-Monitor and, just like in the comics, kills Mar Novu and uses the energy from that to wipe out the rest of reality.

But just before his death, Mar Novu encourage Pariah that this is what he is truly meant for and Pariah discovers he has the ability to transport all seven Paragons to a place the Anti-Monitor cannot reach, the Vanishing Point.

So the seven chosen are saved while everyone on board the Waverider is obliterated. But then it gets even twistier as it is revealed that while in possession of the Book of Destiny, Lex Luthor foresaw the seven Paragons in a safe space and so decided to rewrite himself as the Paragon of Truth which causes KC Superman to switch places with him...meaning Lex Luthor is now the Paragon of Truth...

So just to clarify that is now 4 Paragons from Earth-1 and 3 from Earth-38...the main Earths heavily featured in the Arrowverse in a crossover that features literally every DC Continuity in film and TV...can you see why this plot point pisses me off yet?

This is the cliffhanger we are now left on until June 14 when Arrow and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow return, all I can say I hope for right now regardless of the outcome is that we see Martian Manhunter actually be Martian Manhunter because so far in this crossover I have just seen John Jones/Hank Henshaw.

So that’s my review of Crisis on Infinite Earths: The Flash, what did you guys think? Post your comments and check out more DC TV Reviews as well as other TV Reviews and posts.

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arrowdaily · 5 years

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Stephen Amell is dreading the eighth and final season of Arrow, though you wouldn’t know it on this hot, sunny July day in Los Angeles. Wearing Green Arrow’s new suit, the CW star seems perfectly at ease as he strikes heroic pose after heroic pose on a dimly lit stage. But once he’s traded heavy verdant leather for a T-shirt, jeans, and baseball cap, his guard drops and the vulnerability starts to creep in as he contemplates Arrow’s last ten episodes, which was set to begin production in Vancouver a week after the EW photoshoot took place and premieres October 15.

“I’m very emotional and melancholy, but it’s time,” Amell—who is featured on the new cover of Entertainment Weekly—says as he takes a sip from a pint of Guinness. “I’m thirty-eight years old, and I got this job when I was thirty. I’d never had a job for more than a year. The fact that I’ve done this for the better part of a decade, and I’m not going to do it anymore, is a little frightening.”

Developed by Greg Berlanti, Marc Guggenheim, and Andrew Kreisberg, Arrow debuted in the fall of 2012. The DC Comics series follows billionaire playboy Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell), who, after years away, returned to now–Star City with one goal: to save his hometown as the hooded bow-and-arrow vigilante who would become known as Green Arrow (it would take him four seasons to assume the moniker). What began as a solo crusade eventually grew to include former soldier John Diggle (David Ramsey), quirky computer genius Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), lawyer-turned-hero Laurel Lance/Black Canary (Katie Cassidy-Rodgers), and the rest of Team Arrow. Together they’ve defended their city from a host of threats—dark archers, megalomaniacal magicians, and the occasional metahuman—while Lost-like flashbacks revealed what Oliver endured in the five years he was away, first shipwrecked and then honing his skills around the world to become someone else, something else.

The premiere gave the CW its most-watched series debut since 2009’s The Vampire Diaries. But before they launched Arrow, Berlanti and Guggenheim had to suffer through a failure: 2011’s Green Lantern, starring Ryan Reynolds. The duo co-wrote the script but lost creative control of the film, which flopped. So when Warner Bros. TV president Peter Roth approached them in late 2011 about developing a Green Arrow show, they were wary. After much deliberation, Berlanti and Guggenheim agreed, on the condition that they maintain control. Says Guggenheim, “As long as we succeed or fail on our own work, and not someone else’s work then maybe this is worth a shot.”

Their take on the Emerald Archer—who made his DC Comics debut in 1941—was noteworthy from the beginning. Taking cues from films like The Dark Knight and The Bourne Identity and series like Homeland, the writers imagined a dark, gritty, and grounded show centered on a traumatized protagonist. “As we were breaking the story, we made very specific commitments to certain tonal things, such as ‘At the end of act one, he has his hands around his mother’s throat.’ And, ‘At the end of act two, he kills a man in cold blood to protect his secret,’” says Guggenheim.

A hero committing murder? That was practically unheard of then. Having Oliver suit up in a veritable superhero costume by the pilot’s climax was radical too. Sure, the Marvel Cinematic Universe was deep into Phase One when the producers were developing Arrow, but TV was traditionally more apprehensive about comic books. Smallville famously had a “no tights, no flights” rule and only introduced superhero costumes in the last years of its ten-season run, and there weren’t any masked avengers running around NBC’s Heroes or ABC’s No Ordinary Family, the latter produced by Berlanti (let’s not even mention NBC’s The Cape, which was essentially dead on arrival and never did get its six seasons and a movie). But Arrow not only fully committed to the idea of someone dressing up like Robin Hood to fight crime with a bow and arrow, it introduced a second costumed rogue, the Huntress (Jessica De Gouw), in episode 7.

“It’s just comic book to the extreme and the fans seem to really love it,” says Batwoman showrunner Caroline Dries, a former writer on Smallville. “They still maintain it very grounded, but it’s very different with everyone in costumes. The appetite for superheroes has changed in my mind in terms of like they just want the literal superhero [now].”

In the first season, the show’s chief concerns were maintaining both the “grounded and real” tone and the high quality of the stunts, and investing the audience in Oliver’s crusade. Beyond that, though, there wasn’t much of an over-arching plan, which allowed the show to naturally evolve—from introducing more DC characters, such as Deathstroke (Manu Bennett) and Roy Harper (Colton Haynes), sooner than they initially intended (the shot of Deathstroke’s mask in the pilot was meant as a harmless Easter egg), to promoting Emily Bett Rickards’ Felicity from a one-off character in the show’s third episode to a series regular in season 2 and eventually Oliver’s wife. Even the whole idea of a Team Arrow—which, over time, added Oliver’s sister Thea (Willa Holland), Rene Ramirez/Wild Dog (Rick Gonzalez) and Dinah Drake/Black Canary (Juliana Harkavy)—was the result of the writers allowing the best ideas to guide the story. “Greg used to say all the time, ‘You have a hit TV show until you don’t, so don’t save s—,’” says Amell.

Also not planned: Arrow spawning an entire shared universe. “We went on record a lot of times during the premiere of the pilot saying, ‘No superpowers, no time travel.’ But midway through season 1, Greg started to harbor a notion of doing the Flash,” says Guggenheim. “I’m a very big believer that it’s great to have a plan, but I think when it comes to creating a universe, the pitfall is that people try to run before they can walk. The key is, you build it show by show.” And so they did. First, they introduced The Flash star Grant Gustin’s Barry Allen in the two-part midseason finale of Arrow’s second season. From there, Supergirl took flight in 2015, then DC’s Legends of Tomorrow in 2016, and Batwoman is due this fall. “It’s like the hacking of the machete in the woods and then you look back and you’re like, ‘Oh, there’s a path,” says executive producer and Berlanti Productions president Sarah Schechter. But even though Arrow is the universe’s namesake, Amell doesn’t concern himself with the sibling series outside of the now-annual crossovers. “I never think about any of the other shows,” he says. “I want all of them to do great, but they’re not my responsibility. My responsibility is Arrow, and to make sure everyone from the cast to the crew are good.” His sentiments are seconded by The Flash’s Gustin: “I don’t understand how he does it—his schedule that he maintains with working out, the conventions he goes to, the passion he has for it, and the love he shows towards fans. He’s always prepared. He cares more about that show being high quality than anybody else on the set.”

It was midway through season 6 when Amell realized he was ready to hang up Oliver Queen’s hood. “It was just time to move on,” the actor says of pitching that Oliver leave the series at the end of season 7. “My daughter is turning six in October, and she goes to school in LA, and my wife and I want to raise her [there].” Berlanti persuaded him to return for one final season, which the producers collectively decided would be the end. “We all felt in our gut it was the right time,” says Berlanti. Adds Schechter, “It’s such a privilege to be able to say when something’s ending as opposed to having something just ripped away.”

If there’s one person who has made his peace with Oliver’s fate, it’s Amell. “Because he’s a superhero with no superpowers, I always felt he should die—but he may also not die,” says Amell, who actually found out what the show’s final scene would be at EW’s cover shoot. “I cried as [Marc Guggenheim] was telling me. There are a lot of hurdles to get over to make that final scene.” Get this man some more Guinness!

#stephen amell #beth schwartz #marc guggenheim #greg berlanti #cast #s8 #interviews #news

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house-of-nevs · 5 years

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LAUGH, they nearly SUED.

On the whole, we're inclined to leave the majority of new comics alone. Any clown can pluck the latest offerings from the shelf, say '$7!! For this?!' and be done with it but Joker 10 is something of an anomaly that deserves greater inspection, to say the least.

In the 70's, The Joker was granted his own title as he was extremely popular due to a number of still influential Batman stories of the time. In theory 'What does The Joker get up to in his spare time?' ought to write itself.

Problem was, The Comics Code and it's judgements still carried weight back then, and both writers and editors had to be cautious about the content of their comics, because The Code ruling against you could mean the majority of newsstands just wouldn't carry your book. Presumably newsstand vendors just kept an eye out for that little white square and that was the end of gauging whether this month's Batman Family wouldn't turn little Johnny into a foaming, homicidal pervert or whatever.

So, DC were in a bit of a fix. There's no way The Joker could ever be perceived as any kind of hero or even a sympathetic protagonist, therefore he had to be shown paying the price for his activities and securely locked up at the end of each issue. Which really just underscores how inefficient the security of Arkham Asylum had to be.

'The Joker' ran 9 issues and was..alright? Certainly readable but nothing to bother paying more than cover price for. No Neal Adams, Michael Golden or Marshall Rogers art to turn them into classics. Even Mike Gold qualified the reprinting of Joker 3 in 'The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told' as something of a necessary chronological inclusion rather than being regarded as any kind of greatest story.

Joker 9 was the final issue for decades, although confirmation existed that a tenth issue had been completed and just wasn't published due to the book's cancellation. An entirely reasonable and believable until, well, you read the thing but trust us, we'll get to that.

So, for quite a few years, we have this lost Joker comic. In retrospect it seems a bit odd that DC never find a place to publish it given how many times The Joker has been in vogue, and they're certainly not averse to putting out other lost works, such as the Legends Of The DC Universe title kicking off with a previously unseen Crisis On Infinite Earths story, The JFK/Teen Titans annual and a Neil Gaiman Green Lantern book.

So then, FINALLY, as part of the never ending wave of omnibus books that DC insist on abusing bookshelves with, they announce 'Joker:The Bronze Age. To include Joker 10.

The obvious response from the average reader who doesn't want to plonk down $100 for one new comic is 'Any chance of knocking this out as a separate comic?' Given both the DC Dollar and Facsimile Editions are doing a bit better than new comics at the moment, Joker 10 would probably have blown away any other new comic in pre-orders for any given week in 2019.

As of this writing, Joker 10 isn't being offered as a single hard copy comic any time soon, but imagine our surprise when flipping through the Joker promotional sales on Comixology to see...

Joker 10. No hype, no fanfare. Just 'Oh by the way this is in our library now.' An odd way to promote the first monetised publication of a lost comic featuring one of pop culture's most significant icons.

Again, until you READ it.

Joker issue 10 is mental.

Not in a 'well, it features a lunatic so of course there's going to be a twinge of insanity going on.' way. Look. We're old. We've seen The Joker shoot and potentially physically assault a young woman, play poker with Mr MxyStupidnamex for the right to control reality, kill Jim Gordon's wife dead in the street, continue an abusive relationship with Harley Quinn, become the U.S. Ambassador fot Not Iran, batter Jason Todd to death with a crowbar, slice his own face off because reasons and even break his own neck just to frame Batman for murder.

Still, though, this is The Joker at his most literally insane and murderous. If we have this correct, The Joker kidnaps a doctor and explains to him the story of being coerced into destroying a serum that would literally stop death. By Satan. Who looks an awfully lot like Elton John with the word 'POOF' signifying John's arrival at a time where Elton was still very much in the closet.

Joker recants his gleeful, methodical murder of each member of The Justice League, including hanging Wonder Woman by her own lasso from a Jokerised Statue Of Liberty, sending The Flash insane by shooting him up with some kind of..Super Amphetamine that burns his system out and leaving Green Arrow to die in a Hyena cage in the zoo. He also possesses superhuman powers never seen before, including the ability to be at several places at once!

At the end of the issue, we see Joker in possession of The Justice League's bodies, 99/100 ths dead but not dead. Just what in Chief O'Hara's name is going ON here? What happened to the serum? Or Elton John? Why can The Joker do all these new dastardly deeds?

Guess what?

We'll NEVER KNOW.

Joker 10 finishes on a cliffhanger. This is part 1 of 3. Are there at least scripts knocking around the DC offices that could be drawn up, because this is truly the Twin Peaks:The Return of comics. An answer to a long awaited question that only creates question upon question with it's existence.

Was this really going to be submitted to The Comics Code, because The Joker is working with Satanic Figures, enjoying the fruits of his evil deeds, happily murdering superheroes (that whole '99/100ths' thing reads less like a plot point and more like a 'covering that whole killing women Code violation' addition.) and somehow we're seeing, well, issues with this issue.

So we have to turn this over to you; there has to be more to this story. Are there scripts for 11 & 12? Latest rumours as we write this is that The Joker Bronze Age Omnibus may not even make the shelves (although the preview book is out this week at all good comic shops.) UPDATE: The book is out in good comic shops now. We looked in a bad one.

We hope to see you with more on this on The Funnyiest Of Page's!

#joker #dc #comics #1979 #batman #flash #superman

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ruwithmeguys · 5 years

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The chances of an eighth season of Arrow is high, but beyond that… I think the chances have dropped for more than 8 but I could be wrong.

Why I think it’s ending after S8 (and why it may not):

Both Stephen and Emily have stated they want to write and direct but haven’t, despite the chances. They may want to work on new things after next year.

Though he’s agreed to an eighth season, Stephen has made several comments the last 12 months indicating his acceptance of the end and how Oliver really only has one true goal left to accomplish.

The show doesn’t just feel like it’s hitting a new milestone: it feels like it’s preparing us for something (unless it’s just a shocking SL and I’m very wrong)

The interest in superhero tv shows is starting to dwindle because of the sheer number of options available. This however, is open to change. Especially after the last avengers movie hits the cinemas. They may turn to shows like Arrow as an alternative.

Unless the show comes up with a brand new focus to pit Oliver against, beyond his own darkness, then… what? What’s the story?

Indications that John may become the GL means he’s available for other shows after Arrow ends.

Where Oliver goes, Felicity goes. The indications that Oliver will eventually step back from the hood keep ramping up.

They are leading the show towards the future: it’s an obvious passing of the baton.

They are limited in terms of comic origin as there’s only so much story they can pilfer from the comics before DC stop them.

They will need an intense, captivating original story to keep Stephen/Emily and the audience on board past S8 and where they go, the audience go.

We know Arrow won’t live past 10 seasons anyway.

Why I want Arrow to end after 8 seasons:

Too many new characters – unless the show axes at least two of the regulars, we’re never truly going to get the depth we deserve in the scenes focused on our mains… HOWEVER. You can also argue that they don’t need more depth because we basically know them inside out. Another reason right there.

Run its course - Arrow is that show. It isn’t even that good to be honest – the script is either amaze-balls or ridiculous and illogical, the action sequences take up too much space at times and continuity is a huge issue – however we love it as if it were made of gold. Despite our complaints, we watch it because it gave us something that most shows don’t. It gave us a love story for the ages that wasn’t supposed to exist and demanded acceptance of it. It dared so it has our respect.

However, Stephen said something recently. He said, all that remains of Oliver’s story is to leave a legacy. He doesn’t have to die for it to happen, but it has to happen. There two ways for this to be possible: have a baby with Felicity and become a legend. He’ll do both, huzzah! But, barring the immediate concerns of this story, there isn’t a whole lot of character building left to accomplish (suck it Barry/Kara) for Oliver. It’s all outside material. His sister is an issue too, but after this season, focus on him for her story won’t be required. I’m here for Oliver, then Felicity. Just them and in that order.

Thea’s story is done folks, save the peripheral. Whatever happens next for her doesn’t have to be on screen, though I will be stunned if she doesn’t come back for the finale of the series. I have no wish to see more of it, unless it’s Roy inclusive. Why? Because so much of her story kind of… IT BLEW, OKAY? I was bored to tears with her after season 4 and only season 2 and 3 interested me for her character and Roy was entwined in that.

Building a legacy doesn’t mean characters just… disappear - and they don’t have to. So regardless of the end, Felicity will be out there. So will Oliver.

Diggle. This is a big one for me. He’s been changing since Oliver and Felicity left 3.23, since he killed Andy. But we haven’t seen the Dig we know and love since 5.23. That’s 32 episodes. For me, if what was broken isn’t fixed by 7.22, then I truly won’t care what occurs for him in the future, beyond simple curiosity. There’s been too much damage. There’s changing into a different person and then there’s being likeable. One episode is all I’m asking. Believe it or not, I’m actually enjoying his progression, but it’s progression that falls away from the man we dearly miss. Since the chances of him becoming the green lantern has risen… I have to say, I’m not surprised at the idea that John could leave his family behind both literally and figuratively. He’s done it before. He’s doing it now, but it has less impact if his ties are loose and not taut. I need them tightening. 13 episodes are left on S7. He needs to take steps. So either Dig becomes the green lantern… or he dies. If either occurs next year, then S8 will most likely be the end anyway. OTA are the main fixture: they know it, they’ve said it. Once one of them leaves, it’s a ticking clock.

The longer the show lasts, the more time they have to screw up.

I can’t stand another crossover where Oliver is verbally battered for existing.

Too many birds give me hives.

Dinah has become the new boring and siren, the cordelia: I can live without both.

Curits is such a poor example of a human being, it makes me rage, which is unhealthy

Rene is finally interesting to me again, even if I don’t trust him because he’s a fickle sod… which means I never will. So, I can’t like his storyline.

I’m so done with watching Felicity be friendless and treated with disrespect by people that she has to refer to as heroes whether they’ve earned the title or not, I feel like writing fiction where she kills them all and Oliver just stands there in approval.

The longer Arrow lasts, the longer Flash lasts and… NO.

The longer Arrow lasts, the longer Supergirl lasts and… NO.

Since they aren’t doing a thorough Constantine Drakon villain – an enemy with the potential to be amazing since he very literally crucifies the green arrow – I really do miss the big villain. I miss Malcolm: he was twisted but he was effective. You were supposed to hate him. I miss Slade: he’s still my favourite villain. Adrian was the best but they took too long introducing him so he falls short of the tension pedestal for me. Despite being sucktastic, Diaz presents a decent conundrum: he’s supposed to be an arsehole that won’t die so he’s a constant threat. We don’t have to like him. So I desperately need Stan to return. I need that creepy/psychotic enemy that throws everyone for a loop. Without it, I’m not sure about the show’s moral integrity goes to that isn’t about revisiting old ghosts since it’s based on good Vs evil etc. I need to wait and see where they go with this: it could become an organisation or an idea (vigilantes for the people: who watches the watchman type thing) instead of a person and I’ve given up hope on a woman villain who doesn’t irk me. I don’t need 1950’s cheese ball KC: it’s not effective.

Felicity. Now… I love what they’ve done with her character, even in S6 for the most part! However, this whole idea that her wearing a mask would undermine the meaning is pathetic. You had a street kid and a lawyer wearing one after less than a few months of training, but sure: Felicity wearing one would destroy the significance. Now, in one part, this elevates her character: she is the character that all others must work off at least once. It makes her too important to loose: Oliver, Barry, LL, Siren, Ray etc. On the other hand, it limits her capacity and keeps her boxed in which is why S7 has been such a relief to may of us. But I would have loved to have seen this woman suit up: at least she’d be convincing. Any chance of us seeing it happen now are slim to none which is a shame because, to me, her potential is limitless. What we would have given to have everyone else react to her kicking ass and taking names in a mask, with a moniker, and a headset/vice that details the logistics of buildings, sends out Trojans etc. She’d be a nightmare.

I think one more full season (20 to 22 episodes) on top of the 13 remaining, is enough to close Oliver’s legacy if done right which… is a stretch to hope for.

With so many superhero movies in play, if gone on long enough, Arrow will no doubt attempt to copy them as they have done in the past to ill effect.

Another year of rude anons/haters making claims, demanding I do as they tell me, being ridiculous and being constantly wrong in my inbox would be a welcome subtraction in my life.

…And why I want it to live forever:

This show was the show that made me aware of social media. It’s also the show that I needed at a dark time in my life: I was jobless, friendless and things were happening with my family that were less than desirable: it was a grand distraction that borderlined obsession. Or passion. Hm.

Despite certain plotlines, illogical character progression, overused devices, and faulty scripts; it truly is a one in a million show. Very different from all other shows.

The actors can ACT… for the most part.

The CGI effects are good.

It’s angsty x 10

The love story is worth the angst

There’s always more story to tell with good characters!

Once Oliver achieves the status he deserves, I want to see him revel in it.

…A 10 episode season 9 that focuses on olicity alone because I want it so bad?

The chance to bring back Tommy somehow

The wonderful people I talk to online daily JUST because of this show

The genuine friends I’ve made JUST because of this show.

The fanfiction that will continue longer if the show does

The posts and metas I don’t want to live without

The asks in my inbox that I enjoy answering and the anons I enjoy engaging with

TUMBLR – (with the smut please)

If the show has a chance of lasting past season 8, then what I want to see is a season that focuses ONLY on Oliver… and I’d have it elsewhere. I’d have the government involved. Felicity too. Dig. Just them three (it won’t happen).

The chance to see Curtis crash and burn

The chance to see Dinah crash and burn

The chance to see Rene crash and burn

The chance to see siren… go away somewhere

Felicity in a mask

An actual 9pm slot that’s used to it’s fullest extent

A crossover that focuses on what could have been on another earth and you KNOW they’d have Felicity be the vigilante, with Oliver as the guy who loves her despite her violent escapades. OR another life where they’re regular people that fall into an elaborate conspiracy or something.

There currently isn’t another show that can fill the void that Arrow will create when it ends.

A crossover where Oliver/Felicity kiss no one but each other… please.

A crossover- nay, an ENTIRE SEASON, where Oliver is praised for alllll his hard work and sacrifice.

An episode that marks Felicity, truly, as irreplaceable, necessary and needed for every other character to shine.

An episode arc that allows Felicity to be the one that defeats the bad guy.

You know… YOU KNOW that at some point they’ll deliberately have DC and marvel intersect.

Unfortunately, the cons currently outweigh the pro’s. And if so, if S8 is the last, then that’s an AMAZING run time for a show that was supposed to be only 5 seasons. And the story had enough meat in it for me to be happy for it……… though when that occurs, I’ll probably need to book time off to recover because oh my god I can’t even imagine.

The idea, if true, is a sad one. But again, if true, it won’t be till 2020. We have some time.

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pinkletterday · 6 years

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Oh thank God they aren't waiting till shit goes down to brief Team Flash.

LMAO Iris "what the newspaper says some shit? That's like Tuesday for us, bro."

Seriously though I'm tired of Iris being "tough". The best thing, maybe the only good thing, about Season 3 was that she was allowed to be soft and vulnerable and scared and sad. We badly need to roll back on this stoic tough chick trope. LET WOMEN BE EMOTIONAL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

I miss Soft Princess Iris. :(

SINGH. I missed Captain Singh. He's like Barry's number one stan. "You got an intern working a crime scene without going through any hiring protocol whatsoever, Allen? Good job!"

Incidentally how can you "hire" interns if you don't pay them?

So. Now that we've seen a man become compressed into a block of meat, can we have some PG 13 post-coital Westallen nookie? This show's attitude to sex is so fucked up. Shishkebab people 96 times per season but zero hints of a sex life between a loving, committed couple.

Nora, I love you but you may actually be worse than your Dad at showing up to crime scenes with flimsy excuses...*flashes back to introductory episode on Arrow 2x8* nvm

That block of meat is making me hungry. Need breakfast.

"Please stop caring about me" LOL

Ralph is sort of growing on me. Granted, so could fungus.

Okay that was mean.

I really hope Barry also tables his family drama for five minutes to be there for his best friend. Caitlin and Cisco keep being deprioritized since S2 - S3 and its grating on me. Be there for your friends too, Barry.

Excuse you, going to Thailand and painting your toes is a great way to get over a break-up. However, I strongly advise against any drastic hair decisions.

Oh. Poor guy. Be gentle, Mad Dog West-Allen

(Get it? Mad Dog Lane? TNAOS? Ok then)

I do like when they show civillian casualties. It makes what they do seem more impactful.

Is Joe on paternity leave?

I like these West family subplots. Joe and Cecile are v cute.

Cecile reading the mind of your child without their consent is the opposite of being the perfect parent. Wait till she's out and raid her room for drugs like everyone else.

Barry is like me with teenagers. "When I was your age it took five minutes just to connect to the internet and your search history turned up on your phone bill shut your gob."

Oh Nora. *facepalm*

Idk why Barry always calls his villains out. He's a speedster with the advantage of surprise. Its stupid.

"Denser than people who still believe in love." I feel you so much Cisco.

I see the CW is still forcing us to be minutely acquainted with people's chins.

SERIOUSLY just let Barry take five seconds out to give Cisco a comforting pat on the back Im so tired of this.

LOL Barry you're giving Nora math homework? That's just harsh.

Lmao Cisco is getting Anne Hathawayed HANDS OFF THE HAIR BRUCE. **proteccs lush beautiful Cisco curls*

"Does that mean you think there's something wrong with me?" NO BABY YOU ARE THE MOST PERFECT AND BEAUTIFUL

"You cut my hair I cut you" YOU TELL HIM

Oh. Oh my. Oh.

I have never been so attracted to Cisco Ramon before. Clearly I have been a fool.

Heee she raised her hand. "But Dad, I wanna punch stuff!" Most precious bean.

Errm pretty sure your Dad killed the Sand Demon, Nora. I don't care about DC's no-kill rule but that was not his finest moment.

Lmaoooo welcome to fatherhood, Barry.

Maybe a stern little talking-to wouldn't hurt at this point.

Whenever she says "Dad" my insides melt a little more.

Okay, Barry and Iris need to draw some hard lines between their professional lives. The investigative journalist cannot just waltz into her husband's CCPD lab and look through his laptop. Literally you could have done this at home instead of the lab. One day they're going to be accused of evidence tampering.

Shit like this takes me out of a scene unnecessarily.

Barry: "NORA ISN'T LISTENING TO ME SHE THINKS SHE CAN DO ALL THESE THINGS BUT SHE CAN'T, NEMO!"

Joe: *internally laughs himself stupid*

So this is why parents want their kids to reproduce. The sweet, sweet karmic payback. xD

(Fourth grade? Barry came to live with them when he was eleven. Also pretty sure Barry kinda hated Joe for a while what with having arrested his Dad and being traumatized. I can see him hero-worshipping Joe a couple of years later maybe.)

I can't get over how hot Cisco is. Bruce better not have burned his iconic t-shirts tho.

Aww, Caitlin. That sucks. :( I know the theme this season seems to be fathers and daughters but you should really talk to Iris about absentee parents who faked their deaths.

No seriously this is a great bonding opportunity for them! I need to see a solid friendship between the two main female cast members so bad it's been four seasons please throw me a bone

Oh, step twenty seven is hitting me hard too. I think I might actually like Ralph soon.

Okay, real talk. Yeah the superficial stuff can't distract you from the truth that your relationship tanked. But that whole cry on your couch for two weeks, get away to a seaside with friends, getting a makeover, buying new clothes, redecorating your living space - these are also rituals of grief and helps you cope till you get enough emotional distance to deal with reality. Superficial stuff is what makes life bearable, okay?

The other thing is to give relationship advice nobody asked for

Moving on.

I love that Cait and Cisco are always there for each other.

Awww Barry's showing Nora what a fuck up he truly is loool.

Oh my God. Season 1 Barry. "Sometimes for people with our abilities the most impressive thing is restraint." WE HAVE COME SO FAR. I'M LOVIN' IT! *prouds*

Yessss Iris being as smart as the nerd herd!

GO TEAM WEST-ALLEN!

Young lady, you roll your eyes at your mother one more time and we're gonna have words.

Kinda hate that in order to give villains a chance against speedster powers you gotta significantly bring the latter down several IQ points.

Baby got moves! Nice!

Barry! What about those moves you used to lay out the ARGUS guards??

This fight would be more impressive is I could see jackshit. Lighting, people!

Hmm. Did Cicada just have a "Save Martha" moment?

Nora is so scared and worried for her father, poor babb.

YES MARVEL REFERENCE!

Wait, so they got their powers back?

Y'know he didnt have to vibe that to realize the obvious next step is confronting Caitlin's mother.

Actually that sounds like respiratory problem. New villain - Halitosis.

Oooh Future Spoilers Girl knows who Cicada is

Aaand that's a wrap folks.

Ngl I had hoped for more "West" in Team West-Allen but this was a solid ep.

Please have Nora call Barry "Dad" as many times as possible k.

#the flash #the flash spoilers #liveblog #the flash 5x2

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bigskydreaming · 6 years

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I know nobody here’s surprised by The Flash constantly undervaluing Cisco’s powers, intelligence or story potential, but like, its not even in regards to the Flash he’s got so much wasted potential....its the whole DCTV universe.

Like, his power to portal to other realities is literally what they’ve used to bridge multiple Earths in past crossovers or major storylines, but c’mon Berlanti and Co....stop looking at that in terms of a plot device to service other characters and look at it as a story vehicle for Cisco and literally EVERY OTHER STORY YOU’RE ITCHING TO TELL.

I mean, you guys have been adding a DC show a year to the CW lineup because there’s so many characters and premises you want to play with from the comics, but bottom line, the CW only has so many hours of television to fill. Sooner or later you’re going to run out of room.

Cisco is literally your answer to all of that.

Set him loose in the DCTV multiverse and he can go to any Earth, be part of any comic book storyline. Come up with a basic premise to explain why he’s roaming the multiverse instead of sticking around Earth-1′s Star City (like just off the top of my head, say Cisco’s show starts with some mysterious figure informing him that alternate versions of his brother Dante are being targeted on every other Earth, and when he understandably sets out to figure out why, he’s led to evidence that there’s an ‘extra’ Dante out there in the multiverse somewhere....and it might actually be the original Dante from Earth-1, snatched out of the original timeline before Flashpoint retroactively erased the present day version of him from reality, and BAM, there’s your premise, cue Cisco world-hopping in search of clues to who took Dante from Earth-1 before Flashpoint erased him and why, like, they have plans for Cisco and his powers and want Dante as leverage, idk, I’m spitballing here work with me.)

ANYWAY. Point is, instead of monster/villain of the week format, you’ve got Earth of the week format. Literally ANY DC superhero, villain or side character can star in an episode of VIBE, whenever you come up with a pitch for a DC character you’re just dying to use and the CW’s like sorry, we have no room to give them their own show or add them to our already crowded ensembles.

And the best part is it NEVER has to contradict the movies or ruin the possibility of adding that character to another DCTV show later down the line when they do have room....because with all the other ways you guys have played fast and loose with time travel and multiple Earths already, it’s the easiest thing in the world to make up some reason for why a character looks different on different Earths. The actor you get to play Ted Kord on Earth-25 in an episode of VIBE doesn’t have to be the actor you hire to play him as a series regular if you ever add him and Booster Gold to one of the Earth-1 shows....just handwave that cascading probabilities/choices somewhere in the past of Earth-25 resulted in a different person marrying into his family line and thus he has the same name and grew up in the same area in both realities but with different genes. Look, whatever. It’s alternate realities. None of us CARE how all that is ‘supposed’ to work, its not like your take on time travel makes any more sense.

Cynthia’s still his star-crossed lover, sometimes enemy, sometimes ally, as some mysterious benefactor employs her to alternately help or hinder Cisco from week to week and Earth to Earth (just give her a different codename already plz). Any of the other DCTV shows’ characters can guest star as the alternate version of themselves in an episode here or there, other dimension-hopping characters like Black Siren could become regular companions for Cisco for their own reasons.

And aside from all the potential for stories for Cisco, from a purely business standpoint, this show would let you do SO MUCH. The CW or WB overseers aren’t sold on your pitch for a new character you want to add to ARROW, FLASH, SUPERGIRL, etc? Test them out as a guest star on VIBE first, see how audiences like them and if the reaction’s what the CW wants, you can then introduce their Earth-1 counterpart in whatever show you were looking to do that. Want to revisit a dead or departed fan-favorite when their actor’s schedule or plot logistics don’t allow for them to show up in LEGENDS? They can go to VIBE. Want to use a DC character who can’t be worked in to another show b/c of long range plans for that character elsewhere? They can guest star on VIBE. Want to revisit a storyline you wanted to take a different direction on one of your other shows but couldn’t at the time because of actor availability, coordinating with other shows or WB or CW mandate required you make a certain creative choice? Have Cisco visit an Earth where events of that storyline played out differently.

The potential is both macro and micro. You can have episodes where Cisco portals to an Earth where things are fundamentally different on a global scale, like a zombie apocalypse happened ten years ago and he’s got to help a group of survivors make it to a legendary sanctuary. You can have episodes where he visits an Earth that looks exactly like that of the other shows....except maybe its one where it was Kal-El’s clone Superboy in the pod at the end of Supergirl’s S1, not Mon-El, and Cisco teams up with Conner Kent for an episode. Or an Earth where Oliver, Barry, Kara or the Legends DIDN’T manage to defeat their villain at the end of a season and shows the aftermath of what kind of world would have resulted from the hero of that show losing in a season finale instead.

He can face literally any villain in the entire DC arsenal, without you having to justify a way to work that villain into a show’s overall mythology or season long arc. He can team up with any hero to ever appear in a DC comic, and you can worry about recasting that hero later if you ever get around to using an Earth-1 counterpart. Hell, he can portal back to Earth-1 to catch up with his friends and casually name drop all these other superheroes they’ve never heard of....and he can literally pop back to that Earth to recruit that hero for help in the annual DCTV crossover events.

He can visit worlds where Atlantis flooded most of the Earth in WWIII or where Amazons are invading New York b/c that Earth’s Lena Luthor stole some legendary artifact from Themyscira. He can be his own worst enemy when running into versions of himself that make Reverb look like a sweetheart, or have “It’s A Wonderful Life” style episodes that show him what a world looks like where he chose a different career path, or didn’t impact a certain person’s life in the way he did on his own Earth.

All the story possibilities that LEGENDS’ time travel premise gave that show are amplified by a factor of 1000 here because with Cisco dimension hopping, you don’t have to worry about time travel logic or the consequences of things unfolding so differently it’d dramatically alter the rest of your shows. You’re not limited by creating ‘what-if’ premises that have to be undone by the end of the episode in order to line up with what actually happened on ARROW or FLASH.

And at its core, regardless of all the other opportunities a Sliders-style alternate reality show called VIBE would provide for your other shows....at the end of the day, you still have the compelling saga of a superhero who saves an entire world each episode but keeps going week after week, because what really drives him is his quest to find the brother that was taken from him by some time travel, reality-altering loophole that meant he never got to say goodbye.

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