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romance-incubomp3 · 2 years
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SZPD/NPD Comorbidity
This is mostly me being obsessed with talking about myself online and psychoanalyzing myself, but I thought it could be useful for people curious as to how these two disorders could manifest together, especially for people questioning having either/both.
Social Interaction/Relationships
NPD: I require other people for validation and helping provide me with a sense of self. I desperately need to be liked by others and thrive off compliments and praise (especially from people I’m not close to). Other people are the primary provider of my self worth, and if they’re not around I start to lose myself. I am primarily concerned with my own interests and my own life. I will talk about things I care about or something funny or good that happened to me all I want, but am easily bored when others talk about themselves, and I have to pretend to be engaged while the entire time silently wishing they would stop talking and move the topic back to me or my interests. Other people provide me with a outlet to talk about myself and things I care about.
SZPD: I need to be alone. Other people are intrusive and overwhelming. I hate being emotionally close to others, and if other people want this from me I have to distance myself and isolate. That being said, I can spend time and do activities with a few friends and immediate family without trouble. However, I am strongly averse to any form of emotional intimacy, even in these relationships that others may see as naturally “close”. Even around these people, I often remain detached and am not very engaged. I may seem present, but in reality I’m usually off in my own world. I am most engaged in relationships when we’re involved in something of my own interest (talking about my interests, intellectual discussions, watching shows/movies I like together, etc). I have zero desire to make new friends and meet people.
Overall, I am an asocial person who nevertheless often interacts with a few “close” friends and immediate family while remaining sequestered in my own world. I function best interacting with my friends online (living far away from all my friends now is a blessing in many ways) as it allows me personal space and I don’t feel intruded upon and I am not required to be physically or emotionally present. However, my chronic boredom and dissociation makes it so I’m inclined to be physically around people, hoping it will ground me and alleviate my boredom. Unfortunately, I will still remain bored and detached except for engaging in certain activities/discussions, although the presence of others can make me feel more grounded and alive. Additionally, even if I don’t miss people when they’re not present, I know it would hurt my friends and family to break off communication, so I spend time with and interact out of obligation and care as well.
My reasons for interacting with others: Boredom, shared interests, desire for validation and attention, obligation.
Reasons for avoiding others: lack of interest in others, feelings of intrusion, extreme aversion to intimacy, fear of dislike or criticism
Inferiority/Superiority
NPD: As a narcissist, I face the dilemma of feeling special and above others, while also being very prone to low self esteem. I fluctuate between the two depending on the praise or criticism I receive from others. Receiving praise, especially for traits or talents I actually care about (acting, singing, ice skating, fashion, etc) cause me to feel elated and self confident. Receiving any form of even minor helpful criticism causes my self esteem to spiral and my anxiety to skyrocket. I begin to hate myself and feel stupid and worthless, or, alternatively, I tell myself the person who criticized me is the one who’s stupid and doesn’t know anything, or they’re too full of themselves (a hypocritical thought for me to have). The director who didn’t cast me was just choosing favorites and ignoring my talent. The classmate or coworker who lent helpful tips is trying to undermine my abilities and make me feel inferior. When faced with criticism, my inferiority and superiority complexes are both prone to rise to the surface. In order for my self esteem to go back up after criticism, I need to receive even more positive attention and validation. When I do, it can shoot back up and bring me back to feeling elated and sure of myself.
SZPD: Inferiority and superiority can manifest around my schizoid nature in ways as well. I’ve always known myself as socially inept and looked down on myself for it. Because of my social awkwardness caused by my autism, I began to see myself as inferior to others and not as functional as those around me. When I was a teen, this manifested as full-on AVPD. I believe these traits shifted into SZPD traits, which is now what defines my personality better. I’ve read of schizoids feeling a hidden sense of superiority. Other people are incapable of understanding us, therefore we’re better left alone.
Overall, I fluctuate between elated and flattened self esteem depending on the praise or criticism I get from others. I also have found it easier to tell myself I’m superior to others to explain my avoidance of and disinterest in them.
Praise/Criticism
This is an area where NPD and SZPD really seem to contradict each other. Narcissists base their self worth and identity on praise and criticism, whereas schizoids are generally indifferent to it. I definitely lean way more towards the former, but relate to the latter in certain ways.
NPD: I already explained in depth above.
SZPD: Despite my identity being tied into praise and criticism from others for the most part, I also do experience some indifference to praise depending on the context or who it’s coming from.
A stranger at the ice skating rink tells me I’m really good at skating: I feel incredibly elated at this. A person who doesn’t even know me noticed that I, in particular, out of all the people skating, have skill and talent in this area. My hard work has paid off. I’m good at something that other people aren’t, and someone noticed this and was impressed with and in awe of me. I smile brightly and thank them. I’m having the best day ever.
My mother praises me for getting good grades in school: I don’t care about school. I’m relieved I’m successful because it saves me a lot of problems, but it holds no special meaning to me. I don’t see anything special about me for this. Plenty of people get good grades. What am I being praised for? Why does it matter? It also means nothing coming from a person who already loves me and knows me. I even feel a bit uncomfortable and awkward. I politely force a smile, but I don’t really care.
SZPD also gives me blunted emotions and less excitement, making me struggle to gain happiness from praise unless it pertains to something that actually matters to me.
Praise means way more to me the less close I am to the person. Why would a stranger go out of their way to compliment me unless they were actually impressed? A loved one will tell me nice things about myself because they care about me. I can’t trust that. It doesn’t convince me that I’m actually special or talented. Additionally, I am unaffected by praise for things that don’t matter to me. However, criticism will devestate me regardless of the circumstances.
Emotions
Another way NPD and SZPD seem to contradict. The former is associated with strong emotional reactions, whereas the latter is associated with being unemotional. I somehow experience both of these things.
NPD: As I already explained, I am very sensitive to praise and criticism. My emotions are very much tied into both of these things. Praise (in the right context) makes me feel overjoyed, while slight criticism or rejection sends me into anxiety and depression, to the point where I can break down sobbing. I am very reactive to this. I need to be admired and liked by others, and I can not be the subject of dislike or disapproval or disappointment.
SZPD: I am often numb and I tend to repress my strong emotions. Unless I feel strong excitement (usually in relation to my autistic special interests) or deep distress (usually criticism or failure or rejection), I struggle to feel anything at all. I suffer from anhedonia (inability to feel pleasure). I also have alexithymia, meaning I struggle to recognize and identify my emotions. I do have emotions, even very strong ones, but I tend to repress them and I rarely express them, both because I don’t want to and I don’t know how to.
Fantasy
Both narcissists and schizoids have elaborate fantasy lives.
NPD: I have spent a lot of my life fantasizing deeply about idealized success and fame, and believed I was dreaming of what was destined to happen to me in the future. I have fantasized about giving interviews as a famous actor/singer/filmmaker/playwright, and have imagined these lives in detail, including being associated with real life members of these professions. I created entire future lives for myself, full of success and fame, despite these things being unrealistic and out of my reach. I genuinely believed I was fantasizing my future. While I draw or write or sing, I fantasize about what praise I would receive from it.
SZPD: I often choose to fantasize rather than fully engage with the external world, including when I’m spending time with friends/family. I will imagine elaborate, fake conversations with anyone, ranging from actual friends and family, acquaintances, random strangers, or even famous people. I will have idealized, in-depth conversations that go the way I want them to go. These will even be recurring conversations I have in my mind. I have created imaginary relationships with people I don’t know well, or whom I only know online. I have had strong “crushes” on people in the past (I’m aromantic), and imagined conversations with them and being their lover, despite not even being close to them. These have often been intense and short-lived. I will often be more absorbed in these fantasy relationships than I am in my real life relationships happening in front of me.
Empathy
Low empathy is a shared trait in the two disorders. While I always used to think I was hyperempathetic, I’ve realized recently I actually generally have low empathy towards people. I have a difficult time relating to others and their emotions. I feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable when people are upset or sad around me, but this is due to fear of emotional intimacy that these situations risk. I do not feel sadness for whatever the other person is going through. I don’t feel happy for people’s good news and achievements. I pretend to be interested or happy for them, but in reality feel nothing.
Overall…
I lack interest in relationships and other people. That being said, I also need other people to reinforce my self worth, and to make me feel grounded. Being around others makes me feel trapped and intruded upon, but being alone makes me struggle with keeping my sense of identity and self worth. I enjoy engaging in shared interests with people, but I am highly averse to emotional closeness and vulnerability. I need praise and attention and validation from people to maintain my self esteem, but I can also feel indifferent to praise from loved ones. I feel strong elation from being praised for things I want to be good at. Criticism or rejection shatters my self esteem. I fluctuate between feelings of superiority and feelings of inferiority. I can go from feeling special and important and talented and interesting, to feeling worthless and grossly inferior. I can have strong reactive emotions, while at the same time having a strong tendency to repress emotions and I struggle to express them. I have an elaborate fantasy life that has ranged from fantasizing about fame and success to basic relationships and interactions with people. I am engrossed in these fantasies and focus on them more than the real world. I have low empathy towards other people.
SZPD and NPD have a lot of very different traits, but there’s also a lot of overlap and ways in which they can manifest together. Despite some contradictions, they are very much disorders that can be and are comorbid. There are also a lot of different ways people can experience these symptoms, and this won’t necessarily describe the experiences of everyone with the disorders.
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skoofie · 2 months
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Friendly reminder that you should
Write that fic
Draw your OC
Redesign that blorbo
Plan that comic how you want
Create the content you want to see
Be cringe
Be free
The only thing that matters is you having fun! Not what others think!
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sanamustdie · 2 months
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🇵🇸 ZINE FOR PALESTINE GOING LIVE 🇵🇸
ZINE4PALESTINE.BIGCARTEL.COM
Z4P is a non-profit artistic initiative aimed at raising funds for Care For Gaza, an organization providing direct support to families of Palestine. The zine showcases exclusive creations from 10 French artists from diverse backgrounds, all contributing their talents to support Palestinian families.
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with the participation of @heuffopla @towwypng @1bt1cem-blog and many others who don't use tumblr
Aware that many of you would like to contribute providing humanitarian aid in the face of the atrocities Palestinians are enduring, we've chosen to create art. This way, you can still be a part of it –essentially, you make a donation by purchasing, and in return, you receive cool art made with love while helping a great cause!
Individual prints of the artworks are also available on the website —reblogs and shares are deeply appreciated!
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bytebun · 6 months
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my piece for @thecodywanzine! thanks to the mods who let me go completely ham and cheese on this bad boy. this one's about living longer than you ever expected and not knowing what to do with it
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flamingpudding · 4 months
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His son's children
When Alfred looked into the security video of the front gates, he froze for a moment. Taking in the image of the two children there. One was a tall, red haired girl with a teal headband, confident but with a look of wary in her eyes. Behind the girl was a younger boy, black haired and wearing a NASA shirt, appearing to be reluctant like what they were doing was a bad idea. Alfred's stomach dropped just a little when he saw the boy and his familiar features.
A second later worry flitted accross his face, but still, because of protocol, he asked them for their reason for this surprise visit. No one expected any visitors this late, and Alfred knew if he looked over his shoulder, he would find one of the children snooping, trying to find out who their visitor could be.
Yet when he heard the girls request to see him, not Bruce Wayne, but him, Alfred Pennyworth, his stomach dropped even more. Knowing now for sure that he hadn't seen wrong with the boy's features. He buzzed them in, while his mind remembered old cherished memories of two you black haired toddlers playing together, growing up together until that one day. When he chose to stay and his significant other chose to leave. Sometimes, he wondered if Bruce still remembered the one that could have been a brother to him if things had gone different.
He doesn't regret his decision, but when he looked at the two worn-out children, no his own grandchildren, before him he mourned the fact that he had let his own son become astranged from him and Bruce. Having believed it to be the best with what Bruce had started to get up to.
But maybe it wasn't to late to make amends he thought as the young girl, clearly of the same vibes as Richard, like someone who had grown up to fast and taking on responsibilities that shouldn't be theirs, tried to explain that they won't call him grandpa if it made him uncomfortable and that they would only need a place to stay for a couple of days before they could move on.
Alfred's heart broke for them as he listened to the girls, Jasmine's hurried explanation.
During her explanation, he studied them more closely. Marveling at how much the boy, Daniel, looked like him when he had been younger. But also noticing the clear signs of injury he was trying to hide. He suppressed a huff, years of taking care of his reckless charges and other grandchildren, and their wounds had made him an expert in spotting these things. But it also gave him a sickening feeling. The injuries Daniel tried to hide did not appear like your average kind of injuries.
They were going to stay, Alfred would make sure of it and he would also let Bruce know of his findings. There was clearly more to his grandchildren sudden appearance than Jasmin was willing to explain.
Whatever endangered his grandchildren from his own estranged son. He would ensure that nothing would hurt them ever again.
His granddaughter did not need to list reasons to convince him to let them stay for a couple of days. And his grandson did not need to look this cautious and wary of him like someone was going to attack him any second.
Alfred was going to give them a home if his son couldn't. And if Bruce had a problem with it, he could take it up with his children. Clearly, if he looked over his shoulder at the noisy little ones, all of his other grandchildren could see that these two before him needed a home to stay.
Besides from the looks of it, they would fit right in with this family.
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broomsick · 3 months
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To those of you who worship obscure divinities: there are no rule that bind you except your own. Go worship that obscure deity. Go invent that festival from scratch. Go make that offering even if it’s unusual. Go write that prayer even if you’re the only one who gets it. Go play around with your freedom as a practitioner and explore! Even in a spiritual context, creativity is a gift.
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my-autism-adhd-blog · 3 months
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Reassuring Thing to Say to and Autistic Person
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Neurodivergent Girl
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devxoid · 18 days
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regarding dr ratio's team join voiceline with aventurine
idk where it originated from but i've been seeing this notion that the ENG voiceline is horribly mistranslated and ratio is much more caring and friendly in the original CN. THIS IS LITERALLY NOT TRUE HE IS JUST AS BITCHY IN BOTH LANGUAGES
as a native chinese speaker i actually really love hsr's localisation and i would like to clarify the misconception + explain the cultural nuance/context behind this particular voiceline
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i think this tweet might've been the original source for this misconception? op's translation of the CN line is very literal and completely lacking in cultural nuance. while the sentence 管好你自己 does literally translate to "take care of yourself", it lacks the automatic positive connotation that this sentence has in ENG. CN is a high context language -- aka the meaning of a sentence can be totally different based on context clues like tone, body language, etc.
ratio's tone in this line is not the tone of someone who is concerned for a friend. it's standoffish. when said in this kind of tone, the meaning of 管好你自己 is closer to "mind your own business", making the ENG "keep to yourself" a more accurate localisation.
in addition, the word 管 has connotations of controlling/managing something -- directly translating this to "take care of yourself" means it's missing a lot of important nuance.
granted, the second half of the line is a bit unnecessarily aggressive in ENG. the CN is more like "I have no need for your concern", and explicitly saying that he believes aven's concern to be "false" in ENG is definitely a lot ruder than the original line.
However. in my opinion it's not Too far off base. the way he emphasises the second half of that voiceline in CN carries an implication that he actually disdains aven's concern; we can extrapolate from context clues that he feels this way because aven's concern is just an act. tldr; eng line explicitly saying "false display" does make it ruder than CN but it didn't just come from nowhere -- the implication is already there in CN
this is not to say that ratio doesn't care about aven or see him as a friend. imo the reason ratio is so standoffish in this line is because any display of concern from aven here has the clear intention of teasing ratio. they both know ratio can take care of himself perfectly well. this is just how their dynamic works -- aven makes silly playful comments and ratio deflects them by acting cold.
in conclusion: ENG voiceline is not a mistranslation. hsr localisation is definitely not perfect but in this particular case i feel they've done a fairly good job of conveying the original meaning. thank you for coming to my ted talk
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gay-otlc · 11 months
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Recently, it seems like there's been a pushback in the trans community against the "typical" trans narrative- someone who always knew they were a [binary gender] trapped in a [other binary gender] body and has always experienced dysphoria and plans to or has transitioned fully and is gender conforming. And there should be pushback against this narrative, because this is far from the only way to be trans! Trans people who don't fit into this way of being trans absolutely deserve recognition and celebration.
However, some members of the trans community sometimes go too far in their attempt to defend and celebrate non-typical trans people, and end up being hostile to trans people who do fit that "typical" narrative.
"Trans people don't have to medically transition!" and "trans people can still present as their assigned gender!" are both true statements, but it's inappropriate and offensive to say this to a trans person to try to change their mind about transitioning, or the way they present. When a trans person says they plan on going on hormones or getting surgery and someone says "Oh, you don't need to do that to be trans :)", it sounds like you are trying to convince them not to transition, which is the exact same thing transphobes do. And while some trans people are comfortable wearing clothes that are traditionally for their assigned gender, many of people have faced a lot of dysphoria and trauma from people forcing them or pressuring them to wear those clothes. "Pronouns don't equal gender!" is a good way to support pronoun non conforming folks, but it should never be used as an excuse to misgender someone, or tell them that they have to think about their pronouns differently. The "born in the wrong body" description of transness is outdated for many, but it resonates with some people, and that doesn't mean they're making the trans community look bad.
All this is to say, there are so so many diverse trans experiences, and we should absolutely make an effort to support trans experiences that differ from the "norm." However, trans people with experiences that do fit the "norm" are often treated as though they are responsible for transmedicalism, or for cis people's misconceptions about transness. This is untrue and an unfair way to treat them. In supporting the diversity of trans experiences, we shouldn't throw any under the bus.
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noodlesarecheese · 12 days
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So Watcher is launching a Dropout (it's not called Dropout but they're clearly using the same template format platform thing idk what it's called, and the same pricing structure), and the reaction so far has been wildly different than what I remember from Dropout's launch. I was curious about why that was or if I was just misremembering the Dropout launch, so I went back to the Dropout launch video to compare them and I think I can see where some of the difference is coming from.
If you want to make the comparison yourself: Watcher's Video, Dropout's Video.
I wanna clarify first though that this isn't a knock against Watcher or the fans who are reacting one way or another or anything like that, I genuinely am just fascinated with how different the reactions are to what seems to be the same business decision. This also isn't a 'wow watcher sucks and dropout is so much better' I'm just using them for comparison because they did the same thing with different results. ALSO this isn't about the business decision itself, just the presentation! Disclaimers out of the way, here's the analysis.
Title and Thumbnail So the Watcher.tv announcement video is titled "Goodbye Youtube" and the thumbnail is Ryan, Shane, and Steven sitting on a couch looking serious, with a dark background. That really makes it seem like they're quitting (which, ok, they are quitting youtube but not quitting quitting). Viewers are already primed to be upset, and it's easier to go from upset to angry than upset to excited, curious, or neutral.
Compare to the dropout announcement video: "How the Internet is Ruining Comedy" - inline with other collegehumor video titles, might make you curious. Thumbnail - Big News! with Sam smiling and a bright background. We know its big news, but he looks happy, and the exclamation point let's us know they want us to be excited. Viewers are primed to be curious and excited.
Tone The Watcher announcement has 2 main tones. The first half is very sentimental, almost sad or wistful at times, and while there are parts that veer into pride at achievements, it's mostly bittersweet and sentimental. The second half is a bit more uplifting, but still quite serious. It reminded me of a tech announcement, like when they introduce the new iphone or something like that. Very professional, sleek, and serious, which isn't automatically a bad thing! But I do think that's not the vibe a decently-sized chunk of the audience expected or wanted. Many people watch Watcher for the cast's dynamic with each other, humor, and the more relaxed/conversational/friendly feel that most of the series have.
Compare to dropout - excited and comedic tone. Still professional, but also fits the expectations of the viewers. People watch collegehumor for the humor (it was in the name, after all). They also poke a bit of fun at themselves, which lightens the mood, shows self-awareness, and alleviates some of the bad feelings about paywalling.
Focus The Watcher announcement focuses a lot on the creative journey of the cast and company, as well as how this move will benefit them. Which isn't a bad thing, that's actually quite interesting! The problem here, I think, is actually more about what isn't here - a solid explanation of how this will also benefit the viewers and why the viewers should be excited. There's a brief description of one new show, and the promise that existing shows will get an upgrade, but we weren't given many specific details about how they'll be improved, and there's only one new show to tempt us into subscribing. Some people will be excited for that, some people won't, and some people will be excited but not enough to subscribe. Having 2 or 3 series (even if it's 1 fleshed out plus a few teasers of what's in production or what is being planned) plus some more details about how existing shows will be improved would've helped. Without that, it really does seem like it'll just be the same stuff viewers were getting for free, but now paywalled, rather than new and exciting stuff. That makes a big difference. I think with the fans not getting as much focus, this also led to some (accidental, I hope) hurt feelings. Based on what I've seen from fan reactions, all the talk about hitting the peak of what they can do on youtube and wanting more, translated for many people to 'youtube isn't enough' which became 'you (the current viewers) aren't enough.' Which I don't think was their intent! But I also don't think fans are wrong for feeling hurt by that.
Compare to dropout: They clearly explain how the move will benefit fans, and reassure viewers that existing content will stay where it is, and only new content will be behind the paywall. (Watcher clarified this too, but in a comment. It's not in the video itself, which is a huge problem.) They include clips of several new (at the time) series that would be premiering on dropout, including things that specifically could not be made on youtube (due to weed, violence, and sexual humor), so the reason for the shift is clear to the audience.
Advertisers Both videos contain the sentiment that being monetarily successful on youtube means working to appease the advertisers, and that over time what the advertisers want and what the creators want drifts further and further apart, putting strain on the creators.
However, I think the message gets lost a bit in the Watcher vid. Instead, it leaves viewers with the idea that the main problem is just ads are annoying instead of advertisers putting constraints on content. I'm not even sure what the specific constraints are for watcher, because they didn't give any examples. And the focus on ads being annoying leaves viewers frustrated because people typically either don't mind ads or they already have an ad blocker.
Timing and Size Okay, this isn't exactly about presentation, but it is still a factor that impacts perception so I'm tackling it. And I'm actually going to do dropout first. CollegeHumor launched dropout in September 2018. Pre-pandemic, but also pre-Sam Reich as CEO. The company was still owned by IAC. It was a Company, and while it wasn't huge it wasn't tiny either. So launching dropout was a Company Decision, a Business Strategy. Some people were upset about, but it wasn't a personal betrayal (generally, anyways). If I remember correctly, this was also not a high point for the company. They kinda needed dropout to do well to keep things running smoothly (which is why they shut it down and sold it to Sam just 1 1/2ish years later), so the sudden shift made sense.
Watcher Entertainment is a company, but it doesn't feel like one. Ryan, Shane, and Steven own and operate things, but they're also the faces, and they're youtubers. Which makes every business decision they make feel more personal to viewers, especially those who have been watching for a long time. They've also seemingly been doing well on youtube, which makes it more difficult for viewers to understand why the sudden change is happening now. They do talk a bit about it, about the company expanding and wanting to do things that advertisers don't like (which I've already covered). However, mostly the choice to start a streaming platform is framed as 'the next big step' without much clarification on why it's the next big step. Plus, it's post-pandemic, and a lot of people are still struggling financially with the ripple effects of that. Yes, $6 isn't a wild amount of money, but there have been some months where $5 absolutely meant the difference between paying all my bills or not, and I know I'm not the only one. This, coupled with a lack of clarity about why exactly they're doing this, leads to fans feeling hurt, betrayed, bitter, and frustrated.
Now, presentation and framing isn't everything. No matter how perfect your announcement is, some people are still going to be upset. It's a big change, of course people will be upset! But I do think a more careful presentation would've alleviated some of the hurt and anger that fans are feeling. While I do think a lot of the reaction we're seeing is due to the decision, I think (based on what I've seen) that some of it is also based on the poor communication in the video itself, and that could've been avoided!
So I'm gonna get a little speculative and describe what I would've done. In this hypothetical, they've decided to launch the streaming service and brought me on just for the announcement.
Firstly, switch the title out. If they're married to Goodbye Youtube then add a (and hello...?) after so it's at least obvious they aren't fully quitting. The dark color scheme of the thumbnail fits their regular vibe, but they want everyone to be excited so they should look excited. Next, let's lighten the tone up. Being proud of what they've done so far is great, but we don't need the sentimental music and bittersweetness. Remember, the goal is to get viewers excited about what come's next - so let's focus on what actually comes next! Talk about specific show plans and mention why they wouldn't work on youtube. Then, take some time to reassure the fans. Predict a few likely worries and address them in the video. Acknowledge that it's a big change, that it will take time to get used to, and that not everyone will be onboard, and let the fans know that it's ok if they aren't onboard.
Like I said, this wouldn't fix everything. There are a few differences in between dropout and watcher that don't have anything to do with presentation. Dropout launched with primarily new shows rather than new seasons of existing shows, and they continued uploading to youtube relatively regularly in addition to the content behind the paywall, which I do think went a long way to keeping fans happy. At this point it's unclear if watcher will do either of those or not. But, while I don't think it would fix everything, I do think improved communication in the announcement would've helped.
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moony-2001 · 5 months
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The real-world impact of Lore Olympus
i.e. do your research Rachel
Trigger warning: racism, fetishization, appropriation, mentions of SA
Long post ahead
A while ago, someone told me that Lore Olympus was just a silly little comic written out of boredom. That it was made to be "funny". They told me that "[I] can't hope [for] an extremely [well-written] story when it was just made with the intention to make something goofy" and that if Rachel actually wanted to make something serious like I had, she would write a book and not a comic.
At the time of this exchange, it was past 1 a.m. and I was exhausted. I did not want to argue with this person and it simply wasn't worth my time or energy in the moment.
But looking back at that (mostly one-sided) interaction, I can't help but think that there is so much wrong with that point of view. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion about Lore Olympus, whether good or bad. But Lore Olympus isn't just some silly little nothing comic about nothing important. It is a comic that actively appropriates and erases Greek Culture. It is a comic that has no respect for the actual stories that have been passed down over thousands of years whether by word of mouth or written text. It is a comic that perpetuates a false narrative and harmful stereotypes about characters or certain groups of people. So, no, it's not just a silly little comic.
Incorrect information
Here’s an example of what I mean:
When I was doing research for my post about the 10 year time skip, I looked up Leuce to reconfirm the little information I knew about her. Wanna guess the first thing that popped up about her?
A Lore Olympus Wiki article.
Okay. How about Minthe? Hundreds of pictures of her from Lore Olympus and a LO Wiki article as one of the top 3 results. Both character are horribly represented in LO and unfortunately there isn’t really any documented stories or records that can refute how LO paints them. Because of this, other characters in Greek Mythology like Leuce and Minthe, whose stories have little to no documentation, stand to suffer the most harm from deliberate misrepresentation on Rachel’s part.
Of course well-known and better documented figures in Greek mythology face slander as well. What about Thetis or Leto? How about Apollo? All of their portrayals in LO are HORRIBLE. I have seen people online absolutely drag them to filth not because they're upset about how the character is portrayed compared to their mythological counterpart, but because they have no knowledge of how they are actually portrayed outside of LO. They just assume that's how the characters are. Similarly, people who have either very little or no prior knowledge of Greek Mythology and Culture would look at the comic and go "Yep, sounds legit. It must be true." and go about thinking that what is portrayed in LO is accurate to what was transcribed thousands of years ago.
Creative interpretations and racism/fetishization within LO
Don’t get me wrong. Creative interpretations and artistic liberties can be great. When they’re done tastefully. I personally think if done correctly, a Greek myth spun in a modern way has the potential be very good. But that's not what we were given.
Characters like Minthe, Leuce, and Thetis (all nymphs btw) are portrayed as trashy tramps who put out and are used as a foil sabotage Persephone and/or her relationship with Hades. Compare that to Greek Mythology where in the Iliad, Thetis is very well-respected by the gods, particularly Hera. Unfortunately, other similar characters like satrys (and basically any character that isn’t a god) are usually portrayed as a low-class POC that can be easily exploited, manipulated, or used as a temporary villain/lover/pawn to “get back” at Persephone, our white-coded protagonist who can do no wrong.
Additionally, there is a clear race/class bias against characters like nymphs in LO. We see many cases scattered throughout the comic of gods like Hera or Aphrodite referring to nymphs as "trash" or "low class" or the idea that nymphs do not belong with gods being heavily implied if not outright said. I cannot tell you how often I've seen Minthe be called some variant of "cheap" by the readers of LO. Even Persephone (who created the flower nymphs) treats them with such disrespect. She frequently calls them some variant of "stupid" or "simple" like saying how they're not the sharpest crayons in the box even though she's the one WHO MADE THEM. However, it's so odd not really to note that nymphs like Echo, Amphitrite, or Psyche (who was previously disguised as a nymph) are not discriminated against. This is because they are liked or trusted by the gods they are around and ergo are often portrayed as the "good ones", which is a disgusting mindset to have.
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We also see the fetishization of nymphs in the comic that is disturbingly similar to the fetishization of women who are Black, Asian, or Latina. It is a known fact that Hades has a flower nymph fetish. Not only is this implied in the comic, but Rachel stated it outright in an old Patreon post. Nymphs are also generally treated as sex-symbols, disposable, and as a lesser-than. Zeus frequently displays this behavior by abandoning nymphs he knocked up in the mortal realm.
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For example, when Persephone finds out Apollo is dating Daphne, she isn't upset he's dating her friend. She's upset he's dating a flower nymph, beings that are generally considered to be "rare", "dumb", and objects of sexual desire. Ew.
Even on the Lore Olympus website (loreolympians.com) nymphs are regarded as "beautiful", "desirable", and "very exotic". And when they're not described in a sexual manner they're say it with me now regarded as "low class" or "workers" for some kind of god/goddess.
Final thoughts
So not only is the characterization of characters like Minthe or Thetis harmful to Greek culture and the stories that are so ingrained in their society, but it is also perpetuating harmful stereotypes about people of color and women who are confident in their sexuality.
Of course, the characters within Greek Mythology had their own issues. Zeus was a serial rapist, many of the goddesses deemed to be "feminist" by today's standards were actually horribly misogynistic looking at you Athena. But 1. that's just how things were back then (but that does not make it right) and 2. all of the good, the bad, and the ugly is still there in Greek Mythology. They're not denying how fucked up it is, but they're also not changing their history to better fit their own narrative or the narrative of the modern world. It exists, it happened, but now it is studied and called out by historians.
Rachel, on the other hand, is doing exactly that. She is actively changing the Greek's cultural history to better fit her fic's narrative. She is constantly sweeping things under the rug or going "No this is how it ACTUALLY happened". Lore Olympus is marketed as a "feminist retelling" yet somehow, it takes allllll the ugly parts from Greek Mythology (rape, incest, problematic age gaps, dubious consent, etc.), mixes it with a majority of the issues we have in the modern world (white feminism, rape-apologists/rape culture, grooming, fetishization of certain minority groups, etc.) and then amplifies the concoction to 20. Lore Olympus cannot be a "progressive, feminist, retelling" and also have characters that are morally apprehensive/come straight from the ancient myths. It does not work. In fact, IMO it makes all the problems from both eras worse.
News flash: actual cultures that are still thriving today are not your toys. They are not "made up". They matter. Do better.
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poorly-drawn-mdzs · 6 months
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Creative Hubris takes another unsuspecting victim.
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makalyta · 8 months
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Seeing Brynjolf alone at the Ragged Flagon as he brushes everyone off, stating that he's busy when he is clearly not, is... frustrating. I had to give this behavior an explanation, so I put myself in his position: Brynjolf has just handed over his life and afterlife to a Daedric Prince. Was there really no other choice to avenge the Guild, did he really have to sacrifice his freedom forever, even after death? Empty chests can be replenished with gold, a new Guildmaster can be elected, but he will never have his future back. Maybe he even starts to understand Mercer Frey's choice to betray Nocturnal. There at the tavern, drinking ale and keeping his face hidden to conceal the pain, Brynjolf realizes that there is no escape from the fate he was forced to accept.
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sainzinnorris · 28 days
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to the f1 community i can reach out to, we all can collectively agree williams has screwed over logan (intentionally or unintentionally). so can we all, by the power of unity, vote for logan as driver of the day for the gp? because he's had it rough for so long, I'd kill to see him happy.
our boy; what he deserves to do;
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girlinlavender · 1 month
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i love how yj tries to present jackie as this leading lady, popular girl, makes-shauna-live-in-her-shadow type character, but that’s literally not her character at all ??
they act like before the crash jackie had some intense friendship power over them, and they did whatever she said, and then after the crash it all fell apart… girl no ??? she’s a girlfailure ??? hello ???
“oohhhh look at her leadership skilzzzzz, eveyone listens to herrrrr, ohhhhhh she’s so POPULAR that she MANIPULATED her BESTIE into joining soccer !!”
meanwhile jackie before the crash: “guys pleez say something nice about each other 😠😞😔 heeehee shauna i like you 😙 lolz you suck at dancing but you’re my best friend and i love you and i’d do literally anything for you you’re the light of my life 😭😭😭 please don’t be mad at me 🥺🥺🥺 you’re not mad at me right 🥹 okay 🥰”
like pls- be so fr rn.
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icantdothistodaybruh · 2 months
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just wanted to draw him in something cute🛐
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