#fandom debunking

[mybrainproblems]

hello, i'm finales georg...

i don't want to further clutter up the notes on this post while responding to the tags below but the persistence of the "finale is short/scenes are missing/extra ad break” conspiracies drives me absolutely bananas when i've watched the finale ten times and have posted about this A LOT trying to clear things up. (disclaimer that yes, i'm a goddamn destiel shipper but i care about Facts above all.)

ok but this is weird because i'd swear the episode was shorter (11 missing scenes!) but okay. maybe we all mandela effected ourselves into #beleving that. because it felt shorter. but i will die on the hill that it had another ad break. i understand this person has the thing #recorded with ads so i am thinking maybe different ad breaks in different idk time zones??? #because the finale did air an hour earlier in canada so maybe idk i am reaching here but maybe different states or whatever had different #ad breaks??? as for the last minute changes - wasn't the cover band asked for permission to use their version of carry on like a week before #the thing aired??? so even if the episode was 42 minutes and had no additional ad break - which i am side eying but lets say all was normal #i will always say they were changing thing until the absolute last minute (carry on my wayward son X 2 #the crew on the bridge which is not only giant 4th wall breaking but also wow they really got all those people in one place in times of #covid???) #anyway. tinfoil hat stays on sorry guys :/ (via @officialmisha)

short and snarky: there are plenty of real and sourced examples of network homophobia and scripted/directed destiel scenes being cut to point to. we don’t need to make this stuff up just bc the finale wasn’t what we wanted. so it’s not the mandela effect — it’s ppl repeating a conspiracy/rumor bc it supports their narrative and it’s easier and more fun to repeat something that supports a narrative they already believe (misha or something destiel was cut) vs the boring act of fact checking.

longer circumspect answer with links bc like many ppl i am in my debunking era and i rewatched "roblox_oof" last night.

like i said. i've watched the finale ten times. i’ve gone over the episode with a fine toothed comb and posted a detailed breakdown of timing marks on my blog. it’s actually extremely obvious where the ad breaks are once you know roughly where to look for them (they have a longer fade to black instead of a quick cut scene change). there’s no room for extra ad breaks and i think this conspiracy/rumor persists in part bc the episode feels so sparse in terms of cast and the fact that the episode’s momentum hits a barn post (and rebar) less than 20min into an hour-long programming block.

also i’m begging ppl to actually look at that timing mark post. it’s very straightforward and i spent a lot of time on it. i don’t care if ppl plagiarize it at this point if it means this conspiracy stops. i've got almost every second accounted for.

the "eleven missing scenes" that you're thinking of are probably from the finale script of questionable authenticity that @spnscripthunt acquired back in 2021 which can be found here. it's dated as the “final draft” from 11 sep 2020 and filming on 15x20 wrapped on 10 sep 2020. as noted at the bottom of this superwiki page "[the] script came from someone claiming to have been the person who did the closed captions for the show in Russia. There are some indications that it possibly may not be authentic, but this has not been confirmed."

if we go with the possibility that this was a transcript meant for subtitles, the "omitted" scenes were probably written but never filmed since it's the "final draft" and not a color revision (blue, green, yellow, etc). unfortunately, i’ve lost track of where i read it and a preliminary duckduckgo search isn’t bringing it up bc there's a program for script writing called final draft, but iirc the “final draft” version of a script is a transcript of what was filmed (e.g. there are parts of that 15x20 script that ended up being deleted scenes on the DVD). spnscripthunt also has an example of a confirmed final draft for 09x02 (funnily enough, also a dabb-penned ep). if anyone can confirm with a source that i have the purpose of the “final draft” version designation wrong, please let me know! i love being proven wrong with Facts.

i do want to acknowledge that the two “final drafts” do look different from each other and the 15x20 one doesn't look like a “real” final draft script since it lacks the revision/versioning dates that a script would normally have on the cover page. it could be that it was intended for subtitles; there's the chance it's been re-typed to anonymize it if there was anything indicating who the "owner" was, tho that seems a wee bit cloak and dagger to me. and again: it's considered of questionable authenticity. there are some things that don't quite line up but oh dear god i don't want to get even further out into the weeds than i already am.

i won't disagree that it's weird as hell that neoni only got asked about using their cover seven days prior to the episode airing (tiktok here). my personal theory is that they were hoping to get a more expensive song (maybe a zepp song, idk) and didn't manage to secure the rights in the end. again: this is pure conjecture on my part! but i could absolutely see someone working on the show hearing neoni’s cover and liking it and then maybe they were using it as a placeholder until it got down to the wire and they had to make a call/send the ep to networks. because yes, it is baffling they played a song and then a cover of it with only a 40 second break between. (i do actually really like the neoni cover! the placement is just weird and i think it could have worked if they had the kansas version at the beginning and closed with neoni's full cover.)

as to the 4th wall break COVID stuff: robert singer talked with variety magazine about filming the last two episodes and the logistics of filming during a pandemic. whether they should have been filming during a pandemic is a separate discussion but their use of office vs set pods, strict quarantining and daily testing meant that they had zero positive tests in the month they were filming (18 aug to 10 sep). so given all that, i personally don’t think it’s totally out of pocket to have everyone standing outdoors on a bridge for maybe an hour to get a drone shot of them together. (i won’t get into incubation periods and viral load, but if everyone tested negative that day and every day for a month prior, it was a fairly low risk scene to film outdoors and for all we know everyone was masked until the last possible second. there were plenty of outdoor masked protests in 2020 that weren't superspreader events.)

and before anyone brings up “but misha was in vancouver!” i know someone who looked into it and they said no dice, nothing matched up between the backgrounds in those pics and places in vancouver. his statements about “us” going back to set over the summer were pretty generic in hindsight and “we”/"us" could be him or the spn crew generally. unfortunately i’m not able to find those tweets but the use of “we” was likely so as not to give away he wouldn’t be returning to set. (bc we were absolutely casbaited!) and bc it comes up a lot: the "onion field pic" was from when they were filming 15x17 and was not taken while filming 15x19 and 15x20.

besides, it would be ridiculous to go through the financial and logistical headaches of bringing someone into the country to film during a pandemic, only to cut their scenes in the end! honestly, the script is pretty tight when the scenes are given so much breathing room! the only thing i could see being further cut down is The Monologue and even then, i don’t think there was any intent to cut it down given it was filmed in fairly long takes.

i’ve said it many times before, but i believe the finale was fucked long before they returned to set. walker got the green light in sep 2019 and it was being marketed heavily as a “follow on” show to spn given jared’s involvement. the demo they were courting for walker has little to no overlap with the demo for destiel fans — why would they want a finale that catered to a demo they weren't interested in courting? we just went through a historic double strike that exposed so much of the rot of business interests overriding creative vision. this isn't completely unfounded conjecture.

i will not apologize for the length of this bc i wanted to be thorough, but i do want to give context that i think the reason these conspiracies and rumors grind my gears so much is because anyone can fact check all of this. the truth is out there and absolutely none of it is that hard to find. the most time consuming/difficult part of this was finding someone who had a DVR’d copy of the finale from when it aired live and they actually found me themselves after i’d been low key asking around for a year!

and like. i get it. conspiracies are fun. but there are so many sourced instances of network homophobia and destiel being cut that it's like. why is this something folks are hanging onto? the cw is notorious for having upper level meddling with finales bc there's a follow-on show they want to shuffle fans along to and spn is no exception.

#this is my personal bugbear / debunking hill to die on #it's so easy to disprove and has been disproved for so long at this point and it just keeps. on. getting. repeated. #finales georg #destiel #spn #unfortch most destiel folks don't venture outside the ship harbor and this has been LONG debunked by w/incest blogs #as in like. days after the rumor first started circulating in nov/dec 2020. (and it takes next to nothing!) #i'm a more recent arrival to the fandom (feb 2021) which i think gives me a bit more distance being able to watch the finale 10 times lol #but like. it is RIGHT THERE. folks don't even have to watch the ep. just pull it up on netflix/DVD/whatever to see the runtime. #the 'new post' button is right there. screencap my post and dismiss the effort i've put in somewhere i don't have to see it. #fandom debunking #i heard tommy tallarico was the first american hired to work on supernatural (his mother is very proud)

[casualartisanninja]

This was a long time coming.

So, first of all I’m sorry that this took me so long to make, but there was a lot of information to sift through. I’m not planning on coming back to Tumblr in any capacity beyond this but the truth needs to be out there. (And if you're curious about the profile picture/description/etc, I had to dress this blog up a bit so it didn't look like a bot and trigger any algorithms.)

Content warnings for this post: 

Heavily discusses kinks and has screenshots of fetish art

References grooming/pedophilia accusations

References transphobia/harassment accusations

This is going to be an EXTREMELY long post with lots of screenshots, so the rest is under a cut.

Edit: Here is the end of the post so you can read it all at once. https://www.tumblr.com/casualartisanninja/747977941832613888/loose-ends

The incident in Hobqueer’s server

I think a good place to start would be the spark that set off this whole chain reaction. 

I’m not sure how long I’d been in that server for when the NSFW in general incident happened. But one thing’s for sure - I didn’t start the conversation about NSFW topics. Like I mentioned on the Reddit post where someone had found me and started accusing me under my comment on the Janitor.AI post, I saw the people there discussing mpreg and oviposition. I looked at it and thought “wow the rules are a lot more lax than I initially thought!”. Yes, I know, looking back, that should’ve been a huge red flag. I also know that, looking back, I should never talk about NSFW in the general chat- even if everyone else is doing it. “If so-and-so jumped off a cliff” and all. I’m really sorry that I did that, and it was definitely a lesson for me.  But I really wasn’t thinking about that at the time. It wasn’t my intention to hurt anyone, and I especially wouldn’t have done it if I knew minors would be there. I know it wasn’t an 18+ server, and it was just a frankly idiotic move on my part. I just saw “Sniper pregnant” and pictures of the mercs with big bellies, and let my better judgment and reasoning get clouded.  However, the way that they’re portraying this incident is extremely intellectually dishonest. Gabriel failed to mention in his callout post that those minors were looking at and sharing fetish art of the mercs, leaving out most of the context for those. Thankfully one of my friends from Chipspeech (who I’ll leave anonymous) joined the server to check and see if the fetish art was still there. It was. Hobqueer and the moderators never deleted any of the discussion, and worst of all they left the fetish pictures up in full view of everybody. One person, who later admitted to being a minor in a dm, even gave a pretty graphic description of a tentacle hentai/mpreg comic. Be warned, this contains NSFW content. I blurred the names of anybody who isn't mentioned in this post.

I've run out of room for images, so I have to add the rest in another reblog. This will be a very long thread with a lot of images, so please bear with me.

#mavisposting #xxcherenkov-gremlinxx #allegations #accusations #explanation #debunking #tf2 fandom #chipspeech fandom

[myuwus]

I have a theory that the Hazbin Hotel is actually Charlie's childhood home

Firstly the location:

On the outskirts of the pride ring overlooking the whole city there just HAPPENED to be a old building?

2) Lucifer & circus imagery plastered all over

3) Abandoned library?

Idk about u but I've never been to a hotel with a library, but in media mansions tend to have a library/study room.

4) Flashback in trailer?

This one is probably a stretch, but if the scene of baby Charlie looking at her dad is one whole scene (& not just Lucifer at the hotel party), then the stair case is the same as the hotels. I couldn't find a whole picture so correct me if I'm wrong. But on top of the stair case in Lucifer's scene looks like a family portrait, while in the present there isn't.

And since I'm already talking about that scene. I also think it was Charlie's birthday? (balloons & party decorations in the back) but Lucifer did something wrong so Lilith took Charlie away

~

Not a super important theory, but it's fun. The hotel was too fancy it made me suspicious xd

#Or maybe Lucifer made it for Charlie & it's not that deep #I haven't been in the fandom long so if this has already been debunked or confirmed lmk #hazbin hotel #Hazbin hotel theory #charlie morningstar #lucifer morningstar #my post

[alaynestone]

SLIPPERY SLOPE, BROTHER.  JUST WAIT AND SEE.

#spnedit #samedit #samrubyedit #sam x ruby #debunking the myth that sam was mainly concerned with saving victims of possession in s4 #i really hate how often this storyline gets flattened in either direction because it's one of my favorites #and this is mainly a fandom thing though the show does skirt around some issues #like how sam's obsession with killing lilith necessarily implies also killing the child she is possessing #there's a general unwillingness to discuss a lot of the implications here #the goal was killing demons not the exorcisms. instead of reciting it when he fails to do it with his mind he lets ruby kill the guy #even ruby is impressed with how much this boy can lie to himself #supernatural #the boy with the demon blood #you had it in you the whole time dumbo #s4 #*

[thejakeformerlyknownasprince]

Errors, “Errors,” and Animorphs

So in a different post I ranted about how a tiny non-distracting unfixable difference between two shirts is not an error in Jurassic Park.  IMHO, a continuity gap is only an error if:

It draws attention to itself and distracts the audience

It could’ve been fixed pretty easily in-story

It makes character, plot, or setting nonsensical

Animorphs has continuity gaps of its own.  And I have opinions about what we readers do and do not count as “error.”  First, an example that’s clearly an error:

I wondered if Tobias had heard my thought. I concentrated. Tobias, can     you hear me?

«Yeah,» he said, «I hear you.»

“Did you hear my thoughts before that?” I asked.

«No, I don’t think it works that way.  You have to think at me for me to     hear.»

—#1: The Invasion

Tobias briefly hearing Jake thought-speak in #1 breaks the rules of the setting; several other books (#2, #23, #31, #33, #46) clearly state that it’s impossible to thought-speak if one is human and not in morph.  It’s an easy fix; the re-releases and audiobooks delete this moment, and the graphic novel makes Tobias unable to hear Jake.  It distracts the audience; I’ve gotten 5 or 6 separate asks over the years of people going “I was rereading #1, and the weirdest thing...” It’s an error.  I can’t say what happened behind the scenes — K.A. Applegate toyed with a thread that was later dropped, or decided to introduce a limitation for plot fuel at a later time.  But it’s an error.

Second, an example that I don’t think counts as an error:

I returned to my life, feeling strange and out of place. That night Jake came over. We went outside.

"I tried morphing the Tyrannosaurus," he said. "Nothing. Didn't work."

"You could ask Ax. He may know why."

Jake laughed. "Yeah, but even if he explains it, I still won't understand it."

—MM2: In the Time of the Dinosaurs [Cassie’s narration]

The kids not being able to morph dinosaurs outside of the Cretaceous Era makes a lot of sense in context.  The whole book series would fundamentally change if they could use T. rex — that would become heavily a favored morph for many of them.  It kicks off all kinds of plot questions that demand answers: Where do the controllers think the “andalite bandits” got dino DNA? What anti-dinosaur measures would they be forced to adopt? Would the Animorphs’ whole strategy change around having those morphs? How would Rachel feel about everyone but Tobias suddenly having a much stronger morph than her? Would they even bother with contemporary animal morphs afterward?

If the kids are morphing dinosaurs all the time after ~#18, then the series loses a lot of its uniqueness.  Applegate has said that most of the inspiration for the series was about trying to help kids understand what it would really be like to be inside an animal mind, with as many animals as possible.  That’s part of why so many of the plots hinge on giving the Animorphs an excuse to learn a new morph (e.g. #4, #17, #27, #47, #52) so that we can experience the coolness right along with them.  That’s why the war is explicitly about fighting for Earth, nonhumans and all (#7, #23, #53).  If it’s not a menagerie of six different critters — including one immigrant from space — rolling up to battle, then it’s not Animorphs. No, it makes no dang sense that sario rip morphs stop working once the rip gets unripped.  But the series acknowledges it, and it allows us both to have a unique animal-based story (dinosaurs! Heckin dinosaurs!) without ruining its own premise.

Third, one that I find fascinating because it’s kind of right on the margin:

"What I don't get is why I have to be a girl wolf," Marco grumbled.

"We had one male and one female," Cassie explained for the tenth time. "If two of us morphed into the male, we'd have two males. Two male wolves might decide they had to fight for dominance."

"I could control it," Marco said.

"Marco, you and Jake already fight for dominance, and you're just ordinary guys," Rachel pointed out.

—#3: The Encounter

Later, Tobias’s narration uses the word “alpha” to describe Jake’s morphed behavior — howling and peeing to mark territory, challenging another wolf pack to protect his own.

There is scientific consensus right now, as of the 2020s, that the term “alpha” is an inaccurate descriptor of pack-lead behavior, and that dominance fights between adult males are almost nonexistent.  That although wolves usually run in a phalanx-like shape with one middle-aged male and female at the point, this isn’t the result of dominance fights but rather an effort to have the physically strongest wolves absorb blows from rogue prey animals or rival predators.  That the dominance fights observed in captive wolves in the 1970s were the result of an ecology error, putting wolves from rival packs into single enclosures.  Fox (1972, 1973) gave a reasonably accurate description of how wolves behave if you put a bunch of adult strangers in a zoo together: the young adult males fight, the winner of that fight wins first access to food, and the mate of the winner gets the most resources for her puppies.

However, time rolls forward, and advances like hidden cameras (and the resurgence of wild wolf populations) allow us to watch wolves without needing to capture them first.  Mech (1999) follows some such wolves around, and quickly realizes that dominance and submission aren’t nearly as important among wolves who chose to make a pack.  Stahler et al. (2002) figure out a better way to introduce stranger wolves in captivity, and get full cooperation among young adult males.  Nowadays drones and radio collars get 1000s of times the wolf data Fox had to work with, and reveal intense cooperation with little more than play-fighting among puppies.

The Encounter comes out 1997.  Mech publishes the first big takedown of the alpha concept 1999.

Did an error occur anywhere in this process?

No, in that Applegate presumably doesn’t own a Time Matrix and published a book based on the scientific consensus at the time about how wolf social dynamics worked.

Yes, in that the error is pretty distracting — I get drawn up short by it every time I reread #3, and I know others have too.

No, in that the error was corrected in the graphic novel adaptation.

Yes, in that the error is still present in the audiobook, and Michael Crouch delivers the moment about Jake being backed into a dominance fight with all of Tobias’s exasperated humor.

No, in that the error allows for some character moments, both silly (Jake peeing on trees) and sweet (Jake being ready to take on an entire rival pack alone, over a rabbit he doesn’t want).

Yes, in that the error takes away from one of the series’ most fundamental purposes, to educate kids about animals.

Anyway, books are great, science is imperfect, and I think the more we all engage with amateur criticism the more we’re all going to learn about what counts as an error in fiction writing with inspiration in scientific reality.

#animorphs #animorphs meta #continuity errors #retcons #fandom #lit crit #3 #1 #mm2 #there's a related question: if the third graphic novel is also set in 1997 #then how does cassie know about the alpha wolf hypothesis being debunked in 1999? #but again #answering that question would make the book worse not better #so i don't worry about it

[bookishtheaterlover7]

Before I disappear for a bit, in order to finish something I've been working on for months and am REALLY passiona about, it's time for one of my favorite things to do... DEBUNK AND EXPOSE AB, and by extension, her relationship with Chris too!!! 🤭

Last chance for you haters of mine to leave before ugly words come out to the surface...

Alright, let's begin!

We all unfortunately saw this photo, right?

Well, without fail, albabaptistastylefiles uploaded and brokendown her outfit, just like pap walk 2.0... let's not forget the time that they somehow knew what exactly was the red dress that she was wearing, based off of two inches of it peaking out...🤔

No surprise that this time, she was able to identify, and credit ALL outfit pieces...

Quick question,how did they know that that is really AB's purse?! You can't even see the actual purse, just the strap. Unless it's a very one-of-a-kind purse (which I doubt) that she and only a select few own, then I'd buy it...

But that purse looks like any other formal purse you could buy at Shein or the mall... 🤭

You may think I've forgotten about her main outfit... I most certainly haven't, and neither has the GP...

Unoriginal, with a dash of Cultural Appropriation... Wow, AB, you've really outdone yourself.

And before any of y'all deny or try to talk your way out... Here's a little bit of receipts for you 😉

🤭

Anyway, I'm done talking about her what she is wearing, and I'm almost done. So, let's go to the photo. Or rather A photo, that was uploaded to Vogue and then was suspiciously deleted... I'mma let y'all read and see for yourself.

Strange... If you were really there, at the after party, and happier than ever, dressed to the nines...

Why would your photo be deleted from something as high profile as Vogue? 🤔 Now, that's something I'd love to know 😉😁

Anyway, that's it from me. Just wanted to let out my thoughts and suspicions on the whole GG photo fiasco. Honestly, anything with them is a fiasco 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Thank you, 👸 and 😎 for the photos! 🫶

Hope this pretty much summarized a ton, and revealed certain things, and I'm not even gonna mention how weird Chris looks in the photos, or how sus it is that his hand on AB's back is blurry, or why AB's neck looks like a giraffe's in the missing Vogue pic... That's something for my fellow Fans of the Fandom to question, analyze and voice. 😉

Talk and see you soon! Hopefully when one of my passion projects gets uploaded 🫶❤️😊🤗

#booky reacts #chris evans #chris evans fandom #alba baptista #alba baptista style files #debunking bullshit #Hate anons are on standby right now #y'all really are itching to spew some hate and get deleted or blocked 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 #anyway hope you enjoyed my rant 🫶 #booky's rant post

[susie-dreemurr]

Carmilla is an Angel theory

Okay, I know this might not be made canon, but hear me out—

She killed an angel

Killing an angel was established as a groundbreaking achievement, to the point where nobody thought any demon could be capable of doing so. Where would Carmilla have gotten all this power from? She’s just an overlord, which may be powerful but not anywhere enough for this.

She is an overlord who hadn’t killed before

I shouldn’t have to explain why someone who’s part of the group of the most dangerous and powerful sinners not wanting to “cross that line” is odd. Especially because the one other sinner who always felt more moral than the others turned out to have been a fallen angel.

If Carmilla had originally gone to heaven, it’d make more sense on why she had clung to her morals even in her type of business. She may be an Overlord now, but she’s not used to shedding her morals away yet.

Design similarities

There are three other characters who look very much like Carmilla, with very similar color palettes, and all of them are angels. The most similar one to her is a fallen angel, Vaggie, and her design serves to hint her true identity to us.

Speaking of her similarities to Vaggie,

The two of them have a whole duet of them singing in separate contexts but harmonizing on their similarities on personality, and in devotion. Not only would this be weird to do for characters who have no relation whatsoever to each other, but it also solves the problem with her family.

It’d be easy to assume that, since she has kids in hell (who don’t have her white hair), she really is just a sinner. But imagine that maybe her kids were sent to hell and she, to heaven… I believe that the mother who would do “whatever it takes” for her children could be willing to follow them anywhere, so she damned herself to hell for them.

What do you guys think?

#hazbin hotel #hazbin theory #carmilla carmine #happy hotel #reminder that i didn’t interact with this fandom before the show aired #so if this was debunked by the creator I wouldn’t know #mine #hazbin hotel spoilers #actually even if this is debunked I will die in this hill

[dotthings]

Anti bi-Dean stans will pull out an ancient con video that’s already been debunked about a thousand times, including by the fan who asked the question, to claim Jensen hates bi Dean, when it’s clear Jensen didn’t even hear the question from a bi fan who said she related to Dean’s journey because the crowd was being so loud and so rude the second they heard the word “bi” everything devolved into chaos and the bodyguard had to escort the fan out while Jensen continued to be utterly confused about what had just happened and why the audience was yelling.

The same people who complain about the accusations some Destiel shippers make about Jensen will lie and distort something that’s on video to try to prove he’s biphobic because they hate bi Dean therefore Jensen must hate as well. But only those Destiel shippers accuse him, okay, sure Jan.

And that’s the story of how Jensen got blamed for the loud-mouthed poorly behaved phobic element of the fanbase at a fan convention and the bi Dean haters who are biphobic keep trying to falsely twist Jensen into being their champion when he was never with them in the first place.

lmao at these people still trying to make this a thing in the year 2024.

#dot trolls fandom #i’ve already debunked this several times but a reminder can’t hurt #seriously did these people burn all their remaining braincells having rage aneurysms about bi Dean #biphobia

[atla-recluse]

Throne-Stealing Where?

It's always hilarious to me when I see/hear someone calling Azula anything along the lines of "power-hungry despot".

Hungry for power? More like hungry for family/relationship harmony and rules. If anything, she gives power away to others! She helped Zuko get back the throne and (conditional) fatherly appreciation that he so desired, with her only request being that he side with her and their nation (that's not asking for very much, from her POV, mind you)! She gave Mai a higher position than even her noble parents had and a chance to become a Fire Royal Consort through marriage to her long-time crush, Azula's brother, Prince Zuko! She (albeit after first forcefully taking her away from her preferred surroundings) gave Ty Lee another, more exciting way (based on how much fun we see Ty Lee having) to feel different/special and like "her own person"! She never used more force than was necessary when fighting her adversaries and only went "too far" when the situation seemed to call for it due to the risk to her person if she did nothing! (Which may have been a soul-destroying choice for everyone that was there [except Zuko]. Even Azula is implied to have felt like a monster for killing Aang, during that conversation they had on Ember Island!) A 14 year old felt forced to kill, people! That affects the one doing it, too! Why does next to no one ever ask what Aang was even planning on doing once in the avatar state while they were in the catacombs? Especially from the POV if one of his enemies? Play hopscotch and do super gymnastics? Doubt it!

Now, please correct me if I'm wrong but, wouldn't a despot be preoccupied with looking for ways to change the surrounding cultures that they come into contact with? Instead, after she leaves Ba Sing Se, for example, she keeps it exactly as she found it; with the only change being the new Earth Kingdom-originated ruler she places in charge. The people of the EK didn't have anything change for them for better or worse, as far as I can recall. Yes, we do see her trying to break through the wall of Ba Sing Se with that more advanced technology and she is imperialistic (which is something wrong in itself and which can be very brutal). But that's not automatically the same as being a dictator or snatching up bits of power from others in any way she can. And in the end she conquered it by instead using the true, least offensive (in multiple ways) means possible.

As for that period just before the final agni kai we see in show, where she was going to be crowned? She was granted that title by the current Fire Lord aka her father, after her back-on-the-clock brother defected (so willingly left).

u·surp

/yo͞oˈsərp/

verb

take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force. "Richard usurped the throne"

Based on that dictionary definition, how can she be usurping Zuko's position if, again, the FL himself is giving it to her and if Zuko gave it up? She's literally getting it "legally" (the FL is the law) and without using any force!

Now of course there's a rabbit hole argument that some may try and use by saying that because Ozai himself took his brother's throne without Iroh's consent (was it without his consent? Iroh seems to never be in a rush to be FL), that Azula getting the throne is therefore usurpation. Ummm, I hate to nip that point in the bud so soon but, Zuko is Ozai's son, not Iroh's. That means that (assuming the child of the by-birth king/queen is the only one that should gain the throne next if the king/queen is unable or unwilling) based on that logic, neither teenager should be allowed to sit on the throne.

Kinda hard to usurp a title from someone who "legally" shouldn't have it either, right? Oh Iroh, if only you'd just done your damn job.

All that being said, literally all this girl was doing is finding ways to handle her job and fulfill the tasks of it that she's been given at such an inappropriate age, while amassing the least amount of damage possible. And along the way she tried to extend a hand to her family and friends too, almost as a sort of "sorry for the inconveniences/thank you for your cooperation and loyalty". (She may have even learned some things about herself and others along the way—or could have, if she had been allowed just one more minute of screen time and the writing choice of change that the other Fire Nation kids got.)

Yet somehow many people come away from this show with the idea that she's trying to purposely take control of or harm as many people as possible in every way possible without any care at all for others' wants. I know at least two characters that that partly or fully applies to, and neither of them are Azula.

#Azula #Zuko #Iroh #Ozai #debunking fandom #common misconceptions #momentarily Tumblr-subtweeted two of these characters #Guess which ones #ATLA

[floradinterlunium]

The “In the Soop” Conversation...To Be or Not to Be True?!!? That is the Stupid Question

There are many lies that fly around the fandom. Lies that become so common people start to believe them or see them as true. I want to debunk some of these lies with facts! Feelings change...facts never do!

The first lie I want to tackle is that “The in the Soop Conversation between Tae and JK was staged.” Perpetrators of this lie claim it was staged for two reasons (A)Taekook said they never fought so that statement alone proves that conversation was staged and (B) There is no evidence that Tkk drifted apart so Hybe forced them to lie to cover their relationship.

Now there is a whole lot to process with those “justifications,” or “proofs” so let’s expose the lies in each point.

First, tkkers claim the “In the Soop” conversation between JK and Tae was a lie because Tae and JK said they don’t fight. As I write that claim I want to laugh but before we get to the utter nonsense of such a statement let’s look at the content of tkks actual discussion.

In this heart to heart Jungkook admitted that him and Tae were close as trainees but as they grew and started spending time alone things became awkward with Tae. Tae became became more quiet and reserved. JK also stated that they hadn’t had a heart to heart of late.

Tae reminded JK of a conversation they had as trainees where Tae asked JK to speak more casually with him because he wanted to be friends. But JK refused, his reasoning being it would have led to a lot of fights back then. Tae responded even though we would have fought more we would have also hung out more (if he had spoken casually).

The conversation basically ended with JK saying yeah but that was the decision he made then (implying you can’t change the past).

Now that we all have the gist of the conversation let’s review Tkkers first claim that “this conversation must be staged because Tae and JK don’t fight.” I ask you where in this conversation do either of them say that their relation changed because of a fight? JK said they drifted because Tae became more reserved and they became awkward. Tae said he thinks the reason they don’t jive as well is because JK didn’t speak casually with him when they were trainees which led to them not hanging out as much. Does any of that sound like they drifted apart because of a fight???!!!

Just a quick analysis of the actual conversation debunks the first claim. Tkk’s relationship didn’t drift because of a fight...it drifted because they grew apart due to personality and difference of preferences. Plain and simple. So the whole they don’t fight claim doesn’t prove that the conversation was staged! Because their relationship didn’t change due to a fight!

Secondly, Now that we’ve squared the first claim away and exposed it for it’s nonsense, let’s dissect the second claim, the “In the Soop” conversation was staged because there is no evidence that tkk drifted apart. Hybe forced them to say those things.

I remember back in 2016 commenting on the fact that Tae and JK didn’t seem that close. I had recently joined the fandom and as is tradition when you are knew you are fed the lie that Tae and Jk are the closest..I pushed back. I said in many private chats, anonymous post (I was a lurker) and youtube comments that Tae and JK actually didn’t seem close at all. But why take my word for it?

Take Tkkers own words.

For YEEEAAARS (starting in 2015 but amped up in 2016) Taekookers cried that Big Hit/Hybe were cutting out Tkk moments from BTS official content. They later rationalized that the reason for this was Big Hit was hiding tkks relationship by excluding their moments from official content.

Then when BTS Memories of [Insert year] started being released annually,  Tkkers cried more. These tears weren’t just about the fact that there was minimal Tkk moments or interactions it was that there was too much Jikook content. JK and JM were always shown together...with every memories starting with 2017 their interactions increase...if JK was being filmed JM was there...if JM was being filmed JK was there. Tkkers didn’t like this and started claiming that JM was Tkk beard. That the absence of TKK footage proved Big Hit was hiding Tkk and promoting Jikook

Taekookers THEMSELVES...For years acknowledge that Tae and JK weren’t seen together often. There was hardly a moment between Tae and JK between the years of 2016-2019. This lack of footage of the two of the together hanging out was very much so acknowledged but instead of jumping to the logical conclusion “they don’t hang out much” they made up a theory that Big Hit was hiding Taekook’s relationship with Jikook.

Years later the “In the Soop” conversation gives reason for the years of no footage showing Tkk. They simply weren’t that close. However, even though Tkkers THEMSELVES acknowledged back in 2015-2019/20 there was a hardly any tkk footage, they are now claiming they never saw a difference in Tkk’s interactions they’ve always been the closest.!?! 🤔 

I could cite for days the moments where Tae and JK prior to In the Soop alluded to the fact that they weren’t that close anymore. Tae in Run BTS episode 10 said JK always ignores him. In BV S2 JK says he doesn’t really have deep conversations with Tae...same season he said all love was loss a long time ago between him and Tae (he was clearly being dramatic but the sentiment was there). Muster (2016 I believe) Tae complains that JK hits him too harshly all the time. Let’s not mention their awkward lives where they barely spoke to each other. But I don’t have to really give anymore proof than that because TKKERS own past theories debunks their present one...In the Soop Conversation lines up perfectly with events...and they know it and saw it. 

Taekook said they drifted apart and relationship became awkward->for years we have Tae telling us JK ignores him, JK is too harsh with him, JK saying he didn’t speak to any members other than JM and Hobi during one of their loong breaks from work--meaning not Tae. Awkward lives where they even admit it’s boring.

Taekook say they will work on their friendship--> we see them hanging out more..their on camera interactions are still awkward but you can see them working on it. We even learn they are now hanging out together more.  

The In the Soop Conversation was a genuine discussion, which I’m 100% certain they fleshed out more of the raw details off camera. Their recount of events, facial expressions, JK’s awkwardness all scream honesty.

Hybe would have to be criminal masterminds and BTS the best actors ever to keep this charade going for so long while maintaining this much consistency.

Now I can’t end this post without addressing an elephant in the room...I am actually restraining myself from keeling over with laughter at this one: Tkkers really claimed that TKK never fight.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What person on the planet can honestly think that two people who’ve known each other for 10 years have never fought!!!!! I cannot understand how people who can’t even understand basic human relationships gained so much power and popularity in this fandom!!

Yes, JK and TAe said they “never fight” after Jin accused them of arguing all the time. But to have taken that as anything other than playful banter is ridiculous! Also to find that statement more believable than them admitting to drifting apart is equally if not more ridiculous.

Friends and lovers....they all fight at one point or another. I don’t mean screaming match type fight I mean getting upset, disagreeing , arguing, needing distance etc. are all parts of 100% of human relationships. To believe that someone can know someone for longer than a year and never so much as get into an argument is beyond me! If you aren’t disagreeing or arguing with your friends or partner then I would question how close and comfortable the two of you are with each other! Like it makes zero sense that anyone would find validity in the claim that they don’t fight. Doesn’t seem like Jin believed them either...he called JK fire and Tae Ice...meaning polar opposites when in contact destroy each other. Like...I know Jin was playing but there is more truth in his words than an outrageous claim like “we never fight”

We are arguing constantly with people that possess the logic and reasoning skills of a third grader.

#jikook #kookmin #im being generous they are not smarter than third graders #jimin #jungkook #debunking fandom lies

[bancaishi]

since there are still new people liking and reblogging my tally hall art/posts, old and new(ish), i figured i should make my stance clear. joe hawley has proven time and time again that he cannot be trusted to foster safe and appropriate interactions with his fans, especially those who are underage. and this is to say nothing of the extremely harmful and bigoted views he has repeatedly expressed surrounding race and gender.

any past art i have made of him or any appreciation i have for tally hall and their work does not include any support for him and his actions. in fact, it's more reason to condemn his behavior, for using the importance this band has to his underage audience to take advantage of them. i would advise any fans, minors or not, to take caution and avoid him, and to not put him up on a pedestal for the sake of others as well.

#tally hall #joe hawley #it makes me sick how intent the fandom has been for years on 'debunking' the accusations that have been levied against him #i regret the amount of faith i gave him at the beginning of my appreciation for the band #i know i already had this disclaimer on my interests page #but this needs to be said somewhere more public i feel #also adding this since i've seen people in the tags questioning the veracity of the document. #i'm a relatively older tally hall fan and i can say that this is a pattern of behavior that has been documented to varying degrees #and in multiple instances #his awful views on race have even made it into tally hall's discography (see banana man) #of course you don't have to take it from me just saying this #look into things on your own. think and draw your own conclusions #but i am not trying to present an argument. i am not trying to argue whether he is personally good or bad #and neither is the document. it was created as a warning for other fans of a credible danger

[ackerbabezzz]

Saw an interesting post on Twitter that prompted me to post this but the JJK fandom has an internalized misogyny problem when it comes to certain women being involved in certain ships, and I think it’s time we wake it up

#just from my observation y’all are so quick to debunk a woman being involved #why is that? 🤔 #jjk fandom #jjk season 2 #jjk geto #jjk gojo #jjk shoko #sashisu #jujutsu kaisen fandom #jujutsu kaisen #gege akutami #shoko ieiri #gojo satoru #geto suguru #stsg #nanago #satosugu #itafushi

[leikeliscomet]

I like how if u wanna anything about the doctor being aspec you gotta have video clips, interviews quotes, 5 links to the AVEN website and Sylvester McCoy holding the asexual flag or something but if u wanna say he isn't aspec you just have to say he isn't or "Moffat era" lmaoooooo

#siri please read the paragraph from Refusing Compulsory Sexuality where the parameters of asexuality are subject to change #in “ace discourse” and asexuals aren't allowed determine what those parameters are #PLEASE dont try to debunk/debate me every i post the words “asexual” “aromantic” and “doctor who” together I can't be asked #you not being convinced enough about the doctors asexuality and aro coding is not my problem I just wanna make my analysis posts bye... #asexual #aromantic #doctor who #dr who fandom #dw fandom #aspec #aspec representation #asexual representation #aromantic representation

[helpallthenamesaretakenblog]

Ok, I was reading TLT again…

Sally is described as having eyes that can change colour in the light. Piper, daughter of Aphrodite, has eyes that can change colour in the light which is probably a feature of Aphrodite’s kids…

And Percy is the only demigod in CHB that we’ve read about talking and understanding Latin, if I’m not wrong. I saw a post, about this which theorises that Percy has a Roman lineage from Sally’s side.

Conclusion: Percy could be the descendant of Venus from his mom’s side

#fully allowing people to debunk this lol #percy pjo #percabeth #percy jackson #pjo fandom #rick riordan #annabeth chase #heroes of olympus #pjo #pjo tv series #pjo tv show #percy jackon and the olympians #percy jackson theory #pjo hoo toa #riordanverse #pjo series #camp jupiter #camp half blood #Hoo

[outlanderfandomfollies]

This isn't real--it's Outlander PR!

What a difference 8 years makes in how Outlander sells the show!

OUTLANDER SEASON ONE WAS ABOUT "ROMANCE": Back in April 2015, Outlander PR wanted to play up the chemistry of Sam and Cait in order to sell the romance between Jamie and Claire--which was what the show was all about in season 1.

I recall shippers being over-the-top with joy because they interpreted this photo of Sam and Cait in a BED 😱 as evidence that they must be a real life couple (overlooking the fact that they were wearing street clothes and most likely there was a tech crew in the room.🤦🏻‍♀️)

IT'S JUST PR: Of course, the shippers didn't realize that what Sam and Cait were doing in the bed was just a PR pitch that has been used with other romantic (or potentially romantic) leads.

For instance, in the gif below, we see Gillian Anderson (Dana Scully) and David Duchovny (Fox Mulder) from The X-Files in bed as part of a tweet for a charity fundraising auction that the show was sponsoring.

OUTLANDER SEASON SEVEN IS ABOUT "FAMILY": Fast forward to June 2023. Outlander PR appears to want to sell the show using the appeal of the Fraser extended family--because now that is largely what the show is about.

So unless Sam, Cait and John Bell are involved in a triple 😱, I think it is safe to say that this is all just PR.

By the way, yes, John Bell said, "I just walked in to see what [Sam and Caitriona] were doing, and they were both just lying there in bed." However, he left out the part that they were WEARING CLOTHES. He also left out the part that there was (at least for the photo with the furry blanket at the top right of this post) SOMEONE TAKING PHOTOS (possibly even a camera crew).

How clueless do you have to be to continue to believe in the SamCait ship nearly four years AFTER Cait married Tony?🤦🏻‍♀️

I guess pretty clueless. 🤷🏻‍♀️

_________________ Photo/gif sources: 01*, 02*, 03*, 04*, 05, 06; *these photos/gifs were modified from their source

[edited]

#samcait debunk #outlander fandom #sam heughan #caitriona balfe #it's only pr #my edits #my edited gifs #my gifs

[ouatsnark]

So.

I've seen people compare Hook killing his father, Brennan, to the EQ killing her own dad, Henry 1.

Which, yeah, technically it is the same thing on surface level but I feel like people ignore the circumstances.

EQ apologists will claim that EQ murdering Henry was his own fault because he allowed her to be abused her entire life (which... While I would argue Cora is abusive, I don't really agree with because the man himself never abused Regina and even tried to advocate for her from what I remember) and because he owed it to her so she could be happy.

They then say she made up for it by naming her kid after him (which awww sweet, naming your kid after someone you MURDERED. Isn't that such a nice way to make up for what you did?).

They say his afterlife was too good for him/was given by Regina and he should be thankful he didn't get worse when he was a 'shitty' dad.

But they then turn around and go:

Oh Hook is a MONSTER because he murdered his own FATHER.

They point to the flashbacks in a swan song, ignoring the part where he abandoned them. Saying him lighting the lantern means that he was a good dad and him abandoning them couldn't be helped.

They say his actions didn't parentify Liam 1. They say he was sorry because he named his 3rd son after his first and that should have been enough.

That Hook was an asshole who orphaned his half brother out of jealousy and showed no remorse, ignoring the fact they eventually made up.

I just... don't see how?

The number one thing with Regina apologists is that they HAVE to make Regina into the biggest victim so that they can justify their love and defense of her indefensible crimes. In short, Regina Apologists are the biggest double standard hypocritical losers I’ve ever seen.

They have to insert their head canons about Regina’s childhood, demonize Henry Sr and then lie about Killian’s father, Brennan’s and Killian’s motives, ignore canon instances of Killian’s remorse just to lift up their tyrant queen.

They then come up with these ridiculous reasons to absolve Regina and Brennan of their crimes while ignoring the fact that if we use their logic, Killian should also be absolved of his (if they’d accept canon fact of Killian’s remorse). No, naming a child after your victim doesn’t absolve you of crimes. What good does that do anyone but Regina or Brennan? It doesn’t. The naming was solely for their own benefit.

How is replacing your first born making up for abandoning your children into slavery? Oh and if they say Brennan didn’t have any choice then why does he need to make up for anything? Can’t have it both ways peeps! No, Brennan naming his third son Liam doesn’t mean he is sorry it just means he’s giving himself a second chance and assuaging his own guilt just as Regina did with Henry Jr.

How about the truth: Villain Regina and villain Killian were both monsters for killing their respective fathers? Why can’t we leave it at that? But sure if they want to play the game of which one is worse, well, I have bad news for them. Regina was.

1. Regina murdered an innocent man. Killian killed his scumbag fugitive father.

Henry Sr was a loving doting father that stood behind Regina no matter what she did. No, Henry Sr did not “allow” Regina to be abused her entire life

Anon is absolutely right when they say Henry Sr did try to advocate for Regina and did his best to stand up to Cora (1x18). Besides. What did they want him to do? She was a powerful dark magic user that could kill him with a snap of her fingers.

I find it interesting that Regina Apologists use the excuse that Regina fixated her revenge on Snow and not Cora because she was afraid of her powerful mother. Like ya wanna think about this for a second, RAs? If you claim that Regina was so afraid of her mother her entire life (even tho she snooped in her desk with no fear etc etc) then do you all think maybe her dad might have been too? What could Henry Sr have done against a powerful wife? He had no powers himself. So if he was scared of Cora, he put Regina before his own fears and stayed for Regina’s sake. He never abandoned her to face Cora alone because no matter what happened at least he could be there for his daughter? Just a food for thought there.

Bottom line was, Henry Sr never abused Regina but he was always there for her, no matter what atrocity she committed, even while she was killing him. So no, adult Regina being abused by her mother over who she marries does not justify murdering the father who loved and supported her and it sure as hell doesn’t justify murdering him so she can get a happy ending and curse an entire kingdom to a life of misery.

It’s like Regina Apologists can’t think past her heaving cleavage.

Brennan did abandon his kids to slavery and to suggest otherwise is a lie. No, him naming his 3rd son Liam doesn’t make up for his abuse

He may have left a lantern on but that means jack crap the moment he abandoned his children to save his own skin. He had a choice. His choice was to die protecting them or at the least ensuring their own escape at his expense. But he chose to save himself and left his sons to face an unimaginable fate without him. Escaping your crimes and leaving your children to face your consequences is most certainly child abuse, neglect and abandonment.

And just so we are clear: Killian’s feeling of betrayal doesn’t justify leaving his half-brother an orphan. But which crime is more understandable? I can sympathize a lot more with the pain Killian felt in the face of his father’s betrayal than I can with Regina murdering a man so she can destroy the lives of an entire kingdom.

2. Regina committed her crime to destroy the lives of an entire kingdom. Killian’s crime effected three people.

Regina committed cold-blooded premeditated murder of an innocent man for the sole purpose of ruining the lives of an entire kingdom. Her goal was to punish Snow for a crime she didn't even commit! The only person that Regina was taking into consideration here was herself.

Killian wasn’t even going to go through with Regina’s test of killing Brennan, a crook and a child abuser, until he learned his half-brother’s name. It became a heat of the moment crime. A crime that only effected three people: himself, his scumbag father and his half-brother.

"You named your boy Liam. After my brother, after the son… you abandoned. Was he really that easy to replace? I saw what you said to him in there! It's the same thing you said to me! It was a lie then, and it's a lie now! … you would leave me." - past Hook 5x11

And despite what Regina Apologists say, Killian didn’t kill Brennan out of jealousy. To frame this as simple as jealousy diminishes the gravity of the situation here and Killian's pain. Put yourself in Killian's shoes for a moment.

You can think Brennan is telling the truth in this scene but I don't blame Killian for not believing him. The man callously left his sons to be enslaved, an act that eventually led to his beloved brother’s death, and here he finds out that his father has simply replaced his brother with a new son. When faced with this, Killian's walls go back up.

Brennan naming his son Liam was not an apology. It was to assuage his own guilt and give himself a second chance. Brennan claims he was honoring Liam 1, and maybe he thought he was, but it doesn't mean that Liam 2 wasn't a replacement for the sons he abandoned.

Lastly, it's a lie to say Killian never showed remorse.

The fact that he made Regina swear never to speak of this shows how immensely guilty and wrecked Killian was over this.

He was also willing to die for Liam 2. Even in the past, he wanted to help his brother turn from the path he was on and not make the same bad choices he'd made. If Henry hadn't returned, Killian was ready to let Liam have his vengeance.

So I have some questions for the Regina Apologists:

If Henry Sr is a shitty father and doesn’t deserve an afterlife for not being able to protect his adult child from his powerful wife, then what does Regina deserve for emotionally abusing the son she illegally adopted and putting her curse and her happiness before his welfare? And yes, she abused Henry. Yes, she is to blame for how she treated him. This isn’t up for debate.

How is naming a child after your victim showing remorse and making up for the act? but Killian Jones can’t be forgiven when he actually expresses remorse and was willing to die for his half-brother and made peace with Liam (as Anonymous pointed out in the ask)?

if being a coward that didn’t stand up to someone more powerful means you don’t deserve happiness in the afterlife then what should murdering, raping and abusing children get you? Yeah, Regina did that.

So please answer the question Regina Apologists!

#fandom asks #anti regina mills #killian jones hate debunked #ouat brennan jones #ouat henry mills sr