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nono-bunny · 6 months

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"The Fortuneteller" is such an interesting episode to me because like? Aunt Wu is never wrong in the end, kinda like how in "Jet" Sokka's instincts are always right as well- the show tries to play it off in the end by saying "sometimes they're right and sometimes they're not", but throughout the whole episode his instincts led him to eventually save an entire town! If they never ran into Jet, he WOULD have destroyed that town, not to mention how Jet does eventually change through his experiences with the Gaang, but! This isn't about Jet rn

Aunt Wu not seeing anything about romance for Aang while she DOES see it for Katara is strange to me if we're to assume he's the man she's ought to marry, because like? Wouldnt their fates be intertwined? Which is why it's a good thing I fully don't believe she WAS talking about Aang, and this episode unintentionally serves the anti-Kataang narrative so well its not even funny (well, okay, it's a little funny, seeing Aang get subtly rejected over and over is very healing). Even if we take out the fact that I believe she was talking about Zuko because, c'mon, he's a fantastic bender who already loves Katara a bunch by the end of the show (platonic? romantic? nevertheless they share an incredible bond)... The Avatar isn't the only "great bender" in the world by a long shot, and I'd argue Aang doesn't even qualify because of his poor work ethic and lack of interest in bettering himself, like- Aang is acknowledged by more ATLA fans than just me to be the weakest bender in the group (until he enters the Avatar state, at which point, he's just the weakest Avatar because he has no control of it) and? Yeah being born with the Avatar Spirit is never gonna be enough to become a great bender by itself, which is something even all the other Avatars aside from Aang seem to recognize, y'know?

I forget who it was, but I saw a post saying that in a better written show, this episode that has such a big focus on unreciprocated feelings would be when Aang recognizes his situation for what it is, recognizes seeing his own lack of interest in Meng when looking at Katara and her lack of interest in him, and have him start to accept that and move on, but... Aang ALWAYS shows himself to either be incapable of understanding or just straight up ignoring Katara's nonverbal cues, not to mention how he goes on to ignore her express vocalization of her discomfort with him, so.

This episode also has Bryke use Sokka as a mouthpiece to give a very incel-y feeling pick up artist lesson and? Yeah, what could I have possibly expected? For Sokka to show some consistency? He fr never takes his own "advice" here, it's so weird! He's always been very forthright about his feelings, so him teach Aang to play coy is so ooc for him unless the point they want to end up making is "love makes fools of us all", which. Doubtful

It's yet another episode with a morality lesson about "Destiny", but fr this one feels so weak when compared to Zuko's whole thing later on about CHOOSING his destiny, where we actually see him do it when he defies and upends his harmful legacy in favor of peace, because here? Here everything plays out as foretold, with a "you control destiny" messaging tacked on at the end- the cloud bending was cool, but I hate the implication that Aang legit goes on to twist and bend Katara to a shape he sees fit, right by his side forevermore, but... Yeah, that's fully what he does, so? Thanks a lot, I guess, Aunt Wu! Look what you did! He was the closest he ever comes to giving up in this episode, some tough love would've done the trick!!! But noooo, god forbid Aang has to face and acknowledge any sort of REAL rejection, Katara simply... Doesn't yet understand that her ultimate role in life is to end up as his trophy wife, that's all! God, fuck comics and LOK Katara!!!

#avatar the last airbender #atla #anti aang #anti kataang #anti bryke #atla critical #the fortune teller #katara deserved better

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burst-of-iridescent · 1 year

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hey, so i saw your post about the atla comics and was wondering if maybe you could tell me roughly when in them aang proposed anti-miscegenation?? it's not that i don't believe he did that, it's just been a very long time since i read the comics and hated them so much that i immediately forgot almost everything from them, and now i feel like i need to find that scene again and see it for myself because it just sounds so ridiculous lmao. i do remember him agreeing to kill zuko, which i firmly believe aang would never actually do and idk how anyone could ever think he would. the comics being so bad is part of why i'm skeptical of every new atla project that gets announced.

aang says it in the promise, part 3! the relevant portions are attached below in case you don't want to read the whole comic to find it (which i strongly recommend, just avoid this comic like the plague):

and of course, the only reason he changes his mind is because katara reminds him that separating the nations would mean aang can’t be with his “forever girl”:

the wonderful writing of the promise: in which aang forgets that his people were nomadic, and lived amongst all four nations, that he himself had (and has) friends from all the nations, and that he’s yknow, the fucking avatar, aka the literal embodiment of the unity and harmony of all four elements in one.

so anon, being suspicious of any new atla projects helmed by bryke? i’m right with you on that one.

#anti atla comics #anti kataang #anti bryke #asks

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i-draw-zutara · 2 years

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The biggest thing with the anti zuko/zutara takes that always has meh like 'wow' is how they ignore the 'we are friends kumbaya' convo in the finale between their boy and zuko

Hello hello!

(I started talking about TSR, surprise surprise.)

Just like Zutarians sometimes choose not to think about how sweet and thoughtful Books 1 & 2 Aang can be (because we usually just talk about how bad he got in Book 3 and beyond), anti-Zuko folks often choose not to think about how much of a hero Zuko becomes by the end of the show. He's definitely flawed, he's no saint, and he's a character with questionable at best morals for the majority of the show. But it is a canonical fact that this is how Zuko and Aang started:

And this is how Zuko and Aang ended:

They have two separate episodes that are pretty crucial to their character development and dive into their similarities, despite how different they seem to be. The show alludes to the fact that these two are fated to be friends by as early as the 12th episode of the show, 40 episodes before they are on the same team. Zuko arguably got more focus and depth by the time Sozin's Comet rolled around than Aang did, though.

Aang was never once portrayed as the antagonist of an episode, so it requires some attention to the writing to notice something like The Southern Raiders "accidentally" painting him in a really bad light. But to be fair, most anti-Zuko people will only ever see that episode the way Bryke wanted us to. I know I talk about The Southern Raiders every 17 seconds on my blog, but it's a hugely controversial episode and one a lot of people reference when talking about Zutara, Kat.aang, Zuko's redemption arc, and Aang's growing superiority complex. I really feel like that episode is one of the biggest contributors to this issue that you're mentioning, and it's really a huge shame.

Zutarians have a nearly endless list of reasons we mostly don't like canon Aang because we get to dip into the comics and Legend of Korra to see how he turned out and what he inevitably did to Katara's entire character. But once Zuko joins the Gaang, the only thing he did that can be seen as "villainous" was help Katara on her little murder trip. And everything before and after that doesn't matter because anti-Zuko peeps can brush off his entire character development by the fact that he was indirectly and unspokenly advocating for murder, which is something Aang is very much against.

I mean, you can disagree with your friends on big things while still being friends. I'm sure we all have at least one friend with that one opinion, but it doesn't mean we suddenly hate them. Same goes for Zuko and Aang. You don't need to be actively against one to like the other.

They disagree on quite a few things throughout the show, like methods and morals. But it's really important to remember that they shared one of the most special moments in the show with each other:

They met the only two dragons in the world face to face and got their very souls judged by them. These things also judged Iroh and believed him to be worthy, and we don't call him a bad person for all that he's done. The fact that these two were both read and deemed worthy by these ancient masters is honestly enough proof for me that Zuko and Aang are both good people at heart, despite everything they've done in canon.

Do I hate on Aang and what he's done while tagging "anti-aang" in 40% of my posts? Yeah of course. But am I anti-Aang? Do I think he's inherently a bad person? Not at all. Bad father, bad husband, yeah. Bad guy, nah.

It's important to distinguish between a bad belief/decision and a bad person, which is something anti-Zuko people either don't know how to do or don't want to do. The whole show is basically a love letter to Zuko, and his redemption arc spans all 61 episodes. So ignoring that Zuko and Aang become great friends with similar histories and a unique bond that they don't share with any other character is definitely a weird choice, but I understand (to an extent) the thought process to end up there.

#zuko #aang #didn't really talk much about shipping #atla #zutara #i'll tag it anyway #anon ask #zutara-galore answers

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justanotherthrowaway1950 · 1 year

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Zuko and Azula Were Raised Differently

A common argument that people make in order to support their claim that Azula was born evil and/or that Zuko was always a naturally good person was that they were raised in the same household in the same way, and yet, even before Zuko got banished, he had empathy and was generally a decent person while Azula never showed any empathy towards others and was well on the path to becoming the monster she becomes later on in life.

However, in my opinion, this argument fails because its central assumption, that Azula and Zuko were raised the same way, is not true at all.

For even notwithstanding WoG statements by Bryke all but saying Azula is a product of nurture, not nature, the comics not only show that Azula and Zuko were not raised the same, but also explains why that is the case.

This is because Azula and Zuko were literally conceived to help Iroh's line's continued dominance from Azulon's POV, or to help Ozai gain and maintain power from Ozai's POV.

However, Zuko appeared to be dud due to lacking the spark while Azula was everything that Ozai wished for in a child. So Ozai put all his efforts into raising her into the perfect conqueror and absolute monarch while essentially neglecting Zuko, only really interacting with him in order to emotionally abuse him for not living up to his standards.

Or in other words, Azula was the golden child while Zuko was the scapegoat, meaning that Ozai not only encouraged anti-social behavior in Azula, but also emotionally abused Zuko, often in front of Azula, whenever Zuko tried to act in a prosocial fashion.

Meanwhile, Zuko’s status as Ozai’s scapegoat meant that it was easier for Ursa, and later Iroh, to influence him down a better path since Ozai wasn't invested in him while it was impossible for Ursa due to being a powerless sex slave and Iroh deeming her too under her father’s influence to try.

In fact, Iroh in the Legacy of the Fire Nation all but says that Ozai neglected Zuko and stoked the competition for his favor between Zuko and Azula while at the same time lavishing Azula with “praise” whenever she acted in accordance with his values.

Also, it is implied in the “Zuko is a bastard letter” that Ursa resents Azula for justifying everything the Royal Family did to her since it appeared that, for most of her childhood, Azula was the child of prophecy that led Azulon to find her family and force her to marry Ozai.

“So are you trying to say that how Azula turned out and all of the horrible things she did was not her fault?”

No, because while I was showing how her environment explains her actions and behavior, it does not excuse them. For she was sane when she committed most of her heinous actions, and even when she is insane, the whole existence of “Ursa” shows that what knows what she is doing is wrong.

In fact, I think it reflects poorly on Zuko and Aang that they agreed to Azula’s terms in regards to the search for Ursa before having the unmitigated gall to lose custody of her.

Especially Zuko since he knows how dangerous Azula is and the threat an escaped Azula presents to the post-war order he is supposed to help protect, and yet disregards all this due to his understandable, but selfish, desire to find Mommy, even though a major part of his redemption arc was learning to put the world’s needs over his desire to have a happy and whole family.

Moreover, I think they are idiots for not dropping everything to bring her in, have a moral imperative to arrest and/or stop Azula again, and would deserve all the scorn in the world if she hurts anyone permanently before they can stop her for good.

“Come on, even if your interpretation of the “Zuko is a bastard” letter is correct, Ursa never let her resentment towards Azula and/or her fear of Ozai affect her parenting towards Azula. For she treated Azula the way she treated Zuko. And if she didn’t, it is because she saw Azula’s latent darkness and decided to save the one child who she could save: Zuko.”

Well, I don’t think Ursa parented Zuko the same way that she did Zuko.

For when Zuko threw bread at the turtle ducks in an attempt to emulate Azula, presumably since Ozai would approve of such behavior, despite not hitting innocent animals being something that should be obvious, Ursa took the time to explain to him why that was wrong in a calm manner that was easy for a 11 year old to understand.

Meanwhile, when Azula burns flowers in the Royal Palace gardens in an attempt to get Ursa’s attention since acting violently gets Ozai’s (positive) attention, Ursa tells Azula to respect the flowers, never once paying attention to Azula saying she burned them because they weren’t perfect, or in other words, I am “perfect”, yet why do you not give me (positive) attention while lavishing Zuko with it?

And while Ursa was more than right to punish Azula by sending her to her room after she burns Zuko for snitching on her, there is never any indication that Ursa ever talked to Azula about why burning flowers is wrong, or why burning them because they aren’t perfect is wrong.

Or in another example, when Zuko fails in his impromptu bending display, Ursa immediately reassures him and praises him for his performance while she says nothing to Azula after her perfect performance.

For while I know that Zuko needed more reassurance, not only in that moment, but also in general, since Ozai had it out for Zuko from birth and Azulon is displeased with Zuko at best while Ozai and Azulon are more than happy with their prodigy/eugenics experiment, Azula is not privy to these dynamics, nor should she since she is a 9 year old.

So it appears to a 9 year old Azula that perfection is not enough to get her mother’s attention while Zuko can be a “screw-up” and still get their mother’s attention.

Or how about when she says out loud what is wrong with that child after Azula disparages Azulon and wishes for his death so Ozai can take the throne, even though she knows that Azula is all but parroting Ozai’s words.

For it might seem obvious to readers and a former peasant like Ursa that wishing for your Grandfather to die so your father can gain more power is utterly vile.

But to a nine year old who has been repeatedly told that such desires are more than ok, and in fact are natural, it seems like from Azula’s POV that Ursa is berating her for no reason other than because something wrong with her notwithstanding her thoughts, like maybe the fact that she is monster….

(Yes, I know we never see Ozai ever directly talk to Azula about his feelings in regards to the line of succession pre-Azulon’s death, but considering the TTRPG says that Ozai made it a point to teach Azula that conquest is all that matters, even though we never see that on screen or on panel, I don’t think it that much of stretch to assume Ozai in private vented his thoughts about Azulon, Iroh, and Lu Ten to Azula.)

And in regards to the argument that Ursa saw Azula’s inner darkness, and therefore rightfully distanced herself from Azula? That is not supported by text.

For it is true that Noriko might have been motivated by self-preservation when she told Azula that, if she was her mother, she was sorry for not loving her enough, it still does not change the fact that an amnesic Ursa knew by looking at Azula’s face and hearing her raving that Azula’s issue was not that she was born evil, but that she never experienced unconditional love and proper guidance from a parent or parental figure.

And during Smoke and Shadow, Ursa expresses her worry about Azula and acts overprotective towards Kiyi because she did not want to lose another daughter on top of acknowledging during her confrontation with Ozai that Azula never had his love, only his approval.

So to conclude, while it doesn’t excuse any of her actions, the truth of the matter is that Azula turned out differently from Zuko because they were raised differently. For Zuko could not live up to Ozai’s standards for what an imperialist, colonizing, absolute monarch should be, and so was discarded by Ozai, thus allowing Ursa, and later Iroh, to be the primary influences in his life.

Meanwhile, Azula was everything that Ozai wanted, and so he poured all his time and attention into her, with Ursa and Iroh being unable to counteract it short of killing or imprisoning him.

So while it may be true that Azula is irredeemable as of current canon, it is because of how she was raised that led to her becoming irredeemable, not because she was born evil.

#azula #zuko #fire siblings #atla #atla comics #legacy of the fire nation #avatar legends rpg #fire siblings meta #atla meta #atla comics meta #azula is not a demon #azula is not a demon child #azula is not a product of nature #azula is a product of nurture #azula is a victim of indoctrination #azula is a victim of grooming #azula is a child solider #justanotherthrowaway1950meta

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fakeikemen · 4 years

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The "Cave of Two Lovers" foreshadows the Zutara interactions in "Crossroads of Destiny"

[And maybe after that too; (yeah this part will be purely based on speculation)]

(See also: A meta that everybody has already written but I haven't because I was living under a rock and watched Avatar very recently)

Like seriously, it is so obvious? I see people try to interpret "The Legend Of Oma and Shu" in so many other ways; like yeah, you're free to interpret it however you want but— most people try to make sense of it while thinking that the tale is just a random occurrence? But it's not.

And here's why:

(I'm so sorry, I tried to add the "keep reading" link here because this gets kinda long but it just won't work) (Also click on the pictures if you want better resolution).

The tale of Oma and Shu is about two lovers who belonged to villages that were at war against each other. To continue meeting each other, they learnt earthbending to create caves in the mountain that divides the two villages. But one day Shu didn't come to the caves. He'd died in the war. So Oma unleashed a terrifying display of her power. And then when people were willing to listen to her, she called off the war and strived for peace between both the villages. As a result the city of Omashu was created— as a monument in remembrance of their love.

So in comparison:

1. Two people belonging to the opposite sides of the war

(Other than the 100 year old war that has been going on, Zuko and Katara are involved in a very fundamental conflict: Capture the Avatar Vs. Protect the Avatar.)

2. With the same colour scheme:

3. Share intimate moments in a cave lit by green crystals:

A popular argument for this comparison is that; Oma and Shu had a positive impressions of each other when they first met. Unlike Zuko and Katara where Katara's first impression of Zuko was pretty negative because he invaded her village.

Zuko and Katara's first proper conversation happens in "Crossroads of Destiny" i.e.; the scene I'm talking about here. After this interaction that they have, I think it's safe to say that they did have positive impressions of each other. (Until Zuko made the wrong choice.)

Other than that, about the colour scheme being a coincidence: Here and here are posts by @marsreds about how the colours are definitely not a coincidence.

But seriously guys? Oma and Shu were the FIRST EARTHBENDERS and yet, instead of greens and yellows they were designed with RED and BLUE?!? (I'll take about Oma's green dress below.)

And on that note, why were Zuko and Katara the only ones who were thrown into the catacombs when everybody else was being held at the dungeons? The dungeons wouldn't have been easy to escape, neither for Zuko nor for Katara.

It's because Zuko and Katara were meant to share an intimate moment in a cave that was supposed to jog our visual memory to remind us of the caves built by Oma and Shu.

(Seriously though, I wasn't really paying attention during CoTL and thought that the Omashu legend was just put in to consume screen time, so I missed the red/blue thing. But then I watched CoD and saw the catacombs and I was like: "Isn't this like that cave made by the lovers?" And then I proceeded to have an oh shit moment because, I knew that Zutara was not canon so I never even considered the possibility of the narrative hinting at anything between them but then this happened. I mean, it's pretty darn obvious).

The colour of the crystals being the same in both caves is no coincidence either— if they just wanted two random caves with crystals, then they could've used a different colour because crystals of different colours exist:

Moving on,

The Visual Cues:

According to the colour coding Zuko = Oma (red) and Katara = Shu (blue).

So,

EXHIBIT A:

I feel like this one speaks for itself.

(I personally think that in this parallel Oma is in red because Katara at this point still sees Zuko as the face of the Fire Nation.)

EXHIBIT B:

This sequence of frames show Oma (dressed in green, like Zuko was in the catacombs) and Shu (dressed in his usual blue), standing on neutral territory and reaching out to each other and then being torn apart by the war.

Pretty much like:

The first time they are in each other's presence without the cause of their conflict (i.e. the Avatar), Zuko and Katara reach out to each other empathetically and attain bone deep understanding of each other within a matter of minutes. This whole encounter is in Ba Sing Se, which counts for the neutral territory because it hadn't been completely taken over by Fire Nation at that point.

And honestly? The raw vulnerability and intimacy of this scene and the high emotional energy of their powerful dynamic is just— wow. (I put off my binging spree for a whole day because I didn't have the heart to see Zutara not become canon after all of this.)

And soon after, Zuko and Katara face each other in battle, their tentative friendship torn apart, as they fight from their respective sides of the war.

EXHIBIT C:

Whenever Oma and Shu appear in the same frame during the visualization of the legend, Oma is always on the left half of the frame and Shu is on the right.

Similarly, throughout all their interactions in the Catacombs, whenever the frame exclusively includes Zuko and Katara, Zuko (like Oma) is on the left half of the frame and Katara (like Shu) is on the right.

The parallels (or foils rather):

In CoTL, we see Song who is a healer (cures Iroh of his poisoning). She mentions that she hasn't seen her father since a Fire Nation raid took place in her village. Zuko empathises with her and says that he too hasn't seen his father in a long while. But then he refuses to say anything else about it.

Later Song tries to reach out to Zuko and tries to touch his scar— which Zuko prevents her from. She shows Zuko her own scars to show that she understood him.

And yet, Zuko doesn't open up to her.

After a while of life-changing and eye-opening experiences, in CoD, when Katara has her meltdown and cries while saying that her mother was snatched away from her by the Fire Nation; Zuko sees an opening to offer an olive branch and he takes it, he empathises with her and tells her that how his mother was snatched away by the Fire Nation as well.

Then Zuko opens up to Katara in a show of complete vulnerability. He openly talks about his scar and what he feels about it. In response, Katara offers to heal his scar and then Zuko lets her touch his scar.

It was nothing but a deliberate choice to make Song slightly parallel Katara (a healer, lost a parent because of the war) and then making Zuko not open up to her and not let her touch the scar, only for Katara to be the one he opened up to and allowed to touch the scar.

After being trapped with Aang in the cave in CoTL and sharing an intimate moment with him, as soon as they find their way out, Katara runs straight ahead without looking back.

But after her time with Zuko, trapped in the Catacombs in CoD, while leaving she turns back to look at Zuko.

Judging by the amount of time the animation puts into showing us Aang's disappointment at Katara running off and into making it clear that Katara did look back at Zuko and that Zuko looked right back at her, to me, it feels like the choice to show this was pretty deliberate.

(Turning back to look at a person while leaving is a romantic trope that has been overused to death? Or is it just bollywood?)

Also I wouldn't have paid this much attention to this small detail if not for the fact that just a hint of the Omashu legend theme is played here?

No, I swear I'm not making it up.

The Omashu legend theme is used in CoD:

The Omashu legend theme is largely dominated by the music of a stringed instrument (forgive me, I don't know what it's called) alongwith a steady melody playing in the background.

In CoD, when Katara and Zuko start conversing for real, (i.e.; when Katara says: "I'm sorry I yelled at you.") what sounds like a variation of the background melody in the Omashu legend theme, starts its subtle ascent as the background score, but sans the music of the stringed instrument.

It is when Katara says: "Maybe you could be free of it." [About Zuko's scar], when then first hint of the stringed instrument is heard. It is only a single note of the strings but it's there. And this "single note" sound keeps on repeating at regular intervals with the melody building up until Aang and Iroh burst into the catacombs.

But then, when Katara is leaving with Aang and she turns back to look at Zuko, this time the music that plays for a few seconds at best, is dominated by the stringed instrument again and this time it's unmistakable.

Also I don't think this music is used anywhere else in the course of the whole show? So it can't really be a coincidence? But I don't really know. I'm saying this on the basis of as far as my memory can reach.

And this is as far as canon stands testimony to what I am trying to say here.

But what about the second half of the story yk, the dying thing, you say?

Well this is where the speculations come in.

Speculation Time:

As a thumb rule, a romance foreshadowed by a tragic tale is meant to have a happy ending.

So this time when Katara's (Shu) life is in danger (Azula's lightning bolt), Zuko (Oma) steps in at the nick of time to save her life (by jumping infront of Katara to intercept the lightning).

(Since I have crossed the limit of images in a post, here is a post by @araeph which illustrates this point.)

Yes, I am completely aware that Zuko taking the lightning bolt for Katara is not his declaration of love for her. What I mean to say is that the whole scene was so very painfully obviously romantically framed (the immediate change in music when Zuko realises where the lightning bolt was headed, both of their expressions, Zuko's agonized "Nooooo", the slow-mo throughout the shot).

I am also aware that Zuko would've taken the lightning bolt for anyone. But it is the narrative that demands that Zuko take the lightning bolt for Katara and Katara only. Because this has atleast 10 different payoffs (a direct callback to the Book 2 finale where Azula had shot Aang with the lightning; the grief of which was for Katara to bear but this time Zuko himself stands between the lightning and Katara instead of being the silent spectator, the culmination of both Zuko and Katara's personal character arcs, Zuko's scar would parallel Aang's: Aang got it because he chose Katara over the world and Zuko got it because he was willing to give up the world to save Katara, etc, etc).

Tl;dr: The lightning scene wouldn't hold all that much weight if it wasn't Zuko taking the hit for Katara because the narrative literally demands it.

This is where we start wading into really murky waters.

From mucking around on Tumblr due to Zutara feels™, I came across this post where some of the ideas for Book 4 were written:

• The Southern Water Tribe experienced the longest series of attacks from the Fire Nation. Zuko and Katara become political partners and work together to help end the animosity and repair relations between their two nations.

• Just like how Zuko learned to appreciate the Earth Kingdom, he would learn to appreciate the Water Tribes. Katara also learns to respect the complexity of Fire Nation culture. There is no such thing as an “evil” nation.

And that basically means that Zuko and Katara would've been working together to de-escalate the hostility between their respective nations and improve the relations between the two nations, while learning about each other's cultures simultaneously as the world would be in the process of being rebuilt after the war and they would be major role-players in shaping the new world.

Which is quite similar to how Oma strived for peace between the two villages and then as a result of the improved relations between the villages, the city of Omashu was built as a monument to the love story of Oma and Shu; which might just be symbolic of building a new world where both the villages could live in peace due to the initiative taken by Oma on behalf of herself and Shu.

The story would've come a full circle; that's all I'm saying.

If you've stuck around for this long, thank you for taking the time to read this long ass post with points that you may already have read ♥️

#i just have a lot of feelings about zutara #i mean this was being built up so perfectly but then bryke ruined it by not making canon #oh and they said that zutara was never even supposed to be a thing #i mean everything was just there in the context #atla #zutara meta #atla meta #meta analysis #oma and shu #oma and shu parallels #cave of two lovers #crossroads of destiny #into the inferno #avatar #anti bryke #zutara #ira's posts

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hello-nichya-here · 2 years

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Why is Azula such a misunderstood character? Is it because she's the most complex one? Or is it because she didn't get enough screentime for people to fully understand things from her perspective? Sadly I feel like she'll always be living in Zuko's shadow because of the fandom and the way the creators of the show treat her...

Azula is misunderstood for the same reason that has many characters, themes, and stories being misunderstood: Unwilingness to actually look at what happens in the story, think about it, and question if it makes sense.

From what I've seen, there are a few main reasons (besides just laziness) why people are unwiling to actually look at the text and think about it and what it all means for Azula's character and arc (these often overlap)

Overly-Simplistic Views On Morals (And Narratives)

This is by far the main reason why people hold Azula to different standards than the ones they have for characters like Iroh and Zuko. A pretty big portion of the fandom seems to think that people are either 100% good or 100% bad, and that nothing can make one really “change sides”. They assume characters can also be split into these two categories, which is why you see people going “Zuko was never a villain, he was a victim!” and ignoring the fact that Azula is literally a child soldier just because she’s fighting for the wrong side. These people constantly say that Iroh and Zuko were always good and always would be good, while Azula was always evil and always would be evil - even though that point of view just doesn’t fucking work for a story like Avatar, that has some of the “evil” characters turning good (Iroh, Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee), and shows good, innocent people losing their way and doing morally abhorent things (Jet, Hama)

Anti-Azula-Bias

This one is so big of a problem that it has it's own post:

https://hello-nichya-here.tumblr.com/post/657365088451313664/can-you-please-explain-the-azula-bias-effect-its

The "You're Just A Hater" Syndrome

That is basically the “Annoying fan-boy” problem. These people that, if you like the show, you can’t ever criticize it, or the comics, or literally anything done by Bryke. “They created these characters! They know better than you!” It’s a cheap appeal to authority because that, to be a fan, you need to like EVERYTHING about Avatar. No questioning of anything is allowed, not even a simple “It was kind of a horrible idea to make Iroh call Azula crazy for doing the same shit he did, and having his refuse to kill his own brother but telling Zuko to go kill Azula makes him look awful. The writers should not have done this (or at least not shown it as something good) since they clearly wanted Iroh to be seen as a wise, kind character”

Conclusion

People should stop regurgitating whatever convenient bullshit they see on the internet and actually use their brains, and also learn that their preferences are not inherently superior to anyone else's. (Also Bryke and Yang shouldn’t be allowed to touch things again until they manage to understand how they fucked up every single character, arc, and theme of Avatar)

#asks #azula meta #azula deserved better #azula bias #avatar fandom problems

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allnewalldifferentwildspider · 3 years

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Zuko & Katara's Relationship Dynamic

This is like the third or fourth time I've tried to write up this post so please bare with me.

Oh wow. That video. Hopefully everyone has seen it now. Not only did it articulate arguments I've been making for years, but it also brought up ideas I had never thought of or noticed before. Watching that and watching the second half of Book 3 again (because it's my favorite) made me want to redo my zutara dynamic post.

I'm going to be using the tiny bits and pieces the show gave us to see how Zuko and Katara's relationship looks and how it would look if they gave us more because...Bryke really fucking hated zutara. I mean, I guess they did.

Katara is compassionate; Zuko is empathetic

A lot of anti-zutara arguments have said that Zuko and Katara could never be together because they would constantly fight and hate each other and it end sooner than later. Not only does this actually describe maiko, but that argument would need to ignore the characters' actual character.

One of Katara's biggest character traits is how compassionate she is. She has a drive to help others and ease their pain. Whether it's getting Aang out of the iceberg or healing a Fire Nation fishing village, Katara will go out of her way to help someone in need.

Katara: No. I will never ever turn my back on people who need me.

Zuko is very emotional and passionate person. As much as he tried to hide it to appease his father, Zuko does want to open up and connect with people. Unfortunately, aside from his uncle, most of the other people he knows are like Zhao and Azula. Not the most understanding of crowds. But because of this he can pick up what people are really thinking and feeling. Think of it as a defense mechanism he developed growing up around people like Azula.

Get these two kinds of people together and you get the crystal catacombs scene. Katara lashes out at Zuko until she breaks down. When she does Zuko opens up with empathy since they have something in common. This creates the beginning of an understanding between the two. Zuko uses that to finally open up to someone who isn't his uncle and Katara listens and reaches out to help. Contrast to the first episode of Book 3 when Zuko tries to voice his thoughts and concerns to Mai and she...doesn't really care.

Something similar happens during The Southern Raiders. Zuko figures out that Katara is taking out her anger of being separated from her father by The Fire Nation onto him and even connecting her mother's death to him.

It's not the first time Zuko has done this either. He easily figured out that Sokka was planning on going to The Boiling Rock. He does it again during Sozin's Comet when he tells Katara that Aang needs to figure out what to do about Ozai by himself.

There's a noticeable pattern of behavior by the time Sozin's Comet arrives. Zuko voices his concerns about meeting his uncle again and Katara is right there to help him through it.

Zuko's empathy combined with Katara's compassion creates almost a cycle of understanding and emotional vulnerability that the two can't really get with anyone else. One notices the other having concerns or problems and goes to give comfort by words or by actions.

Zuko still has a temper but so does Katara

Even after Zuko's fever dream character change thing, even after The Day of Black Sun, he still has it in him to yell at anyone who commits even the slightest transgressions against him:

Aang: That one felt kinda hot. Zuko: Don't patronize me. You know what it's supposed to look like. Aang: Sorry, sifu hotman. Zuko: And stop calling me that!

Sokka: So all we have to do is make Zuko angry. Easy enough. *pokes him with his sword* *annoying laugh* Zuko: All right! Cut it out!

Maybe it's the firebender in him or maybe he really is just like that. Basically if you annoy him, he'll let you know. What people sometimes overlook is that while it takes Katara a bit longer, she also gets worked up when people upset her.

Toph: What's the matter? Can't handle some dirt, Madame Fussy Britches? Katara: Oh, sorry, did I splash you, mud slug?

And remember, it was Katara getting angry at Sokka that even broke the iceberg that revealed Aang.

Katara: Ugh, I'm embarrassed to be related to you! Ever since Mom died I've been doing all the work around camp while you've been off playing soldier! Sokka: Uh... Katara? Katara: I even wash all the clothes! Have you ever smelled your dirty socks? Let me tell you, NOT PLEASANT! Sokka: Katara! Settle down! Katara: No, that's it. I'm done helping you. From now on, you're on your own!

The point is that it is both Zuko and Katara that are very passionate and emotional people. One of them isn't emotionally dominating the other because they both wear their emotions on their sleeves.

This also comes in to play when they set goals for themselves. When Zuko sets a goal, he puts everything into it. Katara is the same way. The difference is that Zuko's drive sometimes gives him a one-track mind while Katara is more flexible. Like for example Zuko being so focused on finding Aang before Sozin's Comet that he ignores Toph's story about her childhood versus Katara wanting to go to the North Pole but taking time to stop and help whoever they come across.

This passion also fuels their values and how strongly they stand by their beliefs. I already put The Painted Lady quote up above but Zuko's morality is what is making him so angry at himself during The Beach. He knows what he did was wrong, but he couldn't face it yet.

Sometimes their emotions get the better of them, but it's only because they are passionate about what they're doing.

Their natural teamwork is amazing

I can't provide a lot of clues in this bit because it's more of a visual thing. Just consider how flawlessly their plans worked during their attack on The Southern Raiders. Especially when you consider that it was a stealth mission so they barely even said anything to each other during and it still went incredibly well.

You could see it again during their mock battle with The Melon Lord. Sokka must have noticed because he paired them together to deliver some "liquidy-hot offence." And they pulled it off, again, without having to say anything.

They've only been a team for a few weeks(?), days(?) but they act as if they've been doing it for years.

They trust each other's judgment

Piggybacking of the previous point, Zuko and Katara have only been a team for a while but there seems to be a level of understanding in terms of judgement. They both know that whatever the other chooses is going to be a well-thought out decision. Maybe it's because they see each other as the mature members of the group even though Sokka is the same age as Zuko? I don't know.

Aang disappears right before they embark on their fight against the Fire Lord, and out of nowhere, Katara puts Zuko in charge.

Zuko: Get out of the bison's mouth, Sokka. We have a real problem here. Aang is nowhere to be found and the comet is only two days away. Katara: What should we do Zuko? Zuko: I don't know. Why are you all looking at me? Katara: Well, you are kind of the expert on tracking Aang.

and that wasn't the first time in that episode that she went along with one of Zuko's decisions

Katara: Aang, don't walk away from this. *She begins to walk towards him as a hand touches her shoulder to stop her from doing so.* Zuko: Let him go. He needs time to sort it out by himself.

As a lot of people have pointed out during the entirety of The Southern Raiders, Zuko never gives a suggestion on what he thinks Katara should do. Aside from making it a stealth mission, he follows her lead the entire way.

Katara teases Zuko (and he lets her)

The fun one. This one has two parts: pre and post The Southern Raiders.

Before The Southern Raiders, Katara was tolerating Zuko. She was still angry with him about the betrayal at Ba Sing Se. Getting little jabs at him was the only thing that was really helping her from loosing her cool around him.

Katara: I'm sorry. I'm just laughing at the irony. You know... how it would have been nice for us if you lost your firebending a long time ago? Zuko: Well it's not lost. It's just weaker for some reason. Katara: Maybe you're just not as good as you think you are. Toph: Ouch.

He just finished yelling at Aang and Sokka but all he does is glare at Katara. She does it again, but to be fair, he kind of set himself up for it.

Zuko: It's a sacred form that happens to be thousands of years old! Katara: Oh yeah? What's your little form called? Zuko: ...The Dancing Dragon.

Then comes post The Southern Raiders and...yeah, she's still picking on him and he still lets her. Granted it's a lot more playful this time around.

Zuko: They make me totally stiff and humorless. Katara: Actually, I think that actor's pretty spot on. Zuko: How could you say that? Actor Uncle: Let's forget about the Avatar and get massages. Actor Zuko: How could you say that?! (Cut back to Katara wearing a satisfied grin on her face and she looks to an expressionless Zuko as he slouches in his seat.)

I love pointing it out every time. She teases him and he does nothing about it.

Katara: Er, no. I was looking for cooking pots in the attic and I found this. Look at baby Zuko! Isn't he cute? Oh lighten up, I was just teasing.

And she admits it!

So what can we take away from this? From what little time they were given together (thanks, Bryke) it seems that Zuko and Katara really understand each other on an intimate emotional level. They can sense when the other is distressed and offer comfort. They're both passionate in and out of combat, for better or for worse. They're comfortable with each other as if they've known each other for years even though it's such a short time. Katara also likes to add a little bit of playfulness in there with Zuko letting her have her fun, again, showing how comfortable they are with each other.

I do think their relationship could have gone to romantic sooner than later if you would have given it a bit more time. Like first half of a hypothetical Book 4.

To me, at least.

#zutara #zuko #katara #anti kataang #anti bryke

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the-badger-mole · 3 years

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I just saw the most infuriating IG post romanticizing the fact that Katara is the only one who can coax Aang out of one of his super-powered rage-outs. I'm not sorry, but I must rant.

That is such an unhealthy relationship dynamic, and the fact that that's Katara's fate in canon is one of the biggest injustices in fiction that it's ever been my misfortune and displeasure to witness! Imagine for a moment that someone you love, a friend, a sibling, your child, dates- or heaven forbid marries someone who frequently loses control and goes on a violent rampage. Now imagine that person you love tells you that they are the only one who stop their significant other from hurting people or themselves. What would you do?

You'd try to intervene, right? Of course, you would because eventually, that person you love (or the children that result from that relationship) is going to get themselves hurt! So why do we romanticize it in fiction? Why are we okay with seeing Katara put herself (and her kids) in harm's way like that? Is it because she's fictional? Because team Bryke hasn't actually had Aang hurt her intentionally (yet, but I remember that lava fissure incident).

The fact that Aang even "needs" Katara in that capacity means he has failed as an Avatar. He's supposed to master the Avatar State, not swing it around like a cudgel anytime he doesn't like something. It was...not okay, but understandable when Katara had to do that for him in the main series. But that he still needs that from her when he's allegedly "mastered" the Avatar State is neither okay nor understandable. It's certainly not romantic that Katara- after everything she's been through- is reduced to being a nanny for an overgrown man-child who can level cities with his tantrums. It's dangerous for Katara. What happens when- not if- he hurts her before she can calm him down? Will there be IG posts talking about how Aang "didn't mean it. You can't hold his lack of self-control against him because he's been through trauma"? Honestly, I think there will be, and isn't that just the saddest thing you've ever heard?

How did Bryke accidentally write such a textbook abusive relationship? If you're reading this and you're a Kataang fan- well, first of all, adjust your blacklist. This is tagged 'anti-kataang' for a reason. Second of all, heed my words- if you are dating someone and they put you in the position of having to calm them down from a rage out, that's a red flag. That's not your job. That's not your responsibility as their significant other. If they can't control their temper (magical or otherwise) get out! Run, don't walk for the nearest exit. And if they threaten to hurt themselves or others, call your nearest mental health facility and let the people whose job it actually is to prevent that harm take care of it.

#atla #anti-kataang #anti-aang #anti-bryke #anti kataang #anti aang #anti bryke #Katara would never have to do this for Zuko #aang is that REAL villain #if that makes you mad adjust your black list and call my lawyer #don't ever date an aang #i say that with love #stop romanticizing this crap!#it's not romantic!

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firelxdykatara · 3 years

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Let me start by saying I've never watched Legend of Korra. like, the most I've watched was any bending scenes/fights and all the Zuko and Toph clips (admittedly, I didn't watch any of the Katara clips because..well..honestly I didn't want to see her be so meek). But I've always felt kinda...bad for liking Mako since the few posts I did read made it seem like both Korra and Asami were better off without him and I didn't want to accidentally fall into the category of sympathising with a man who didn't treat women right. Even when I watched what few clips he was in -Mako seemed a little serious but not anything bad- I thought it was just because I didn't see enough of him to see why he was so bad for Korra and Asami.

And then I read your post on Mako and how he had to do anything and everything to take care of Bolin and my heart kinda broke. I don't know if this is right, but it kinda feels like Mako is being treated a bit like Katara's being treated. Like, they both fit the sibling-turned-parental-figure roles and some of the fandom seems like they can't accept that both are still teenagers who...well, still act like teenagers. seriously, I'm gonna be mad if I ever see another 'take' about how Katara is bad for acting more teenager than mother 😤. And the parallels between the non-con kisses that their respective Avatars gave them, with both Mako and Katara shouldering the blame (though in Katara's case it's more of a "she's supposed to like it! She's the Avatar's girl uwu") . It just rubs me the wrong way how neither of them get any slack for acting less than amazing when they both spent years carrying their trauma and shielding their siblings from that same hurt.

Sorry if this is bothering you or if it doesn't make sense; I'm just kinda fed up of seeing people side with the Avatar no matter what the situation was, especially when Korra and Aang were actually in the wrong *coughnon-conkisscough*

You're not bothering me at all, don't worry!

Honestly all of this makes a ton of sense, someone who's never seen the show and only has fandom's word to go on could be excused for thinking Mako's a fuckboy who was intentionally leading the girls on rather than a kid who'd been raising his baby brother alone on the streets since he was eight years old and maybe not the best at navigating personal relationships and didn't know how to deal with the fact that he had feelings for two incredible girls at the same time. That shit's hard to deal with even when you have parents and had a happy and comfortable life and are just in high school trying to get through the day, but you throw that in the mix with 'became a parent at eight years old' and 'struggled to get enough to feed his brother, nevermind himself, while they lived on the streets' and then everything that happened during the series, and it's like, cut this kid some slack maybe????

Also the comparisons with the way the fandom treats Katara are also spot on. Obviously in Katara's case there's also an added element of racialized misogyny, because she's a dark-skinned girl and the only dark-skinned girl in the main cast, so that gets added to the fact that she was also the gaang's 'mom friend' and you get fans unironically calling her a 'bitch' for -checks notes- getting reasonably upset after being pushed to her limit and losing her cool--but in Mako's case, he actually fills the same niche in the krew that Katara did in the gaang, and he gets a lot of the same treatment, which I think winds up coming at him from the opposite side of the fence so to speak. Because he's a boy, he automatically gets the blame for anything that goes wrong with the love triangle--up to and including the avatar violating his boundaries and kissing him without his consent--because Korra and especially Asami are precious girls and could do no wrong.

And the thing is that it gets kinda complicated because Korra did also get a lot of racialized misogyny flung at her by the racist&misogynistic dudebros of the fanbase who hated that a brown girl was now the avatar, but that wound up overshadowing the very real and reasonable criticisms that can be made of her character and her behavior. Especially in Book 2, where she gets angry enough at Mako for -checks notes- doing his job and not wanting to jump to conclusions that she TRASHES HIS OFFICE!!!!! IN A FIT OF RAGE!!!!!! (which of course Mako gets blamed for and a lot of fans will frame that as Korra getting 'reasonably upset' which lol no)--and the fact that this occurs in the same season as Bolin getting trapped in an explicitly toxic and abusive relationship with a Water Tribe girl (who happens to be Korra's cousin) that is played for laughs the entire fucking time makes me think that Bryke just have very troubling ideas about how it's ok for women to treat their significant others, particularly if they happen to be men.

(Although let it not be said that they didn't write toxic relationships from the other side, Varrick spends the entire series mistreating Zhu Li and then at the end he decides he's in love with her and they get married [in a very Western ceremony, incidentally], and nothing is ever mentioned of the awful way he treated her for the entire show.)

So yeah like, it really, really bothers me that Katara and Mako share similar niches in their respective teams and both of them get a whole lot of untoward hatred for -checks notes- being teenagers and having feelings and sometimes expressing them. They both deserve so much better from their respective fanbases, and I think the biggest reason Katara has a bigger and more devoted defense squad is because atla is still pretty widely regarded as the best installment of the franchise and a lot of people just don't care to even watch lok. The bulk of the lok fanbase is anti Mako and it's hard to maintain any resilience as a fandom in the face of that lmao.

But I'm always happy to talk about how much I love him and if I can only turn the tide one anon at a time then that's ok.

#mako #atla #lok #lok fandom salt #lok critical #lok salt #salt for ts #Anonymous #asked

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waywardavatarenthusiast · 3 years

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Azula Will Never Be Redeemed-at the hands of Bryke or the writers

It’s as simple as this. Take a look at this post. To summarize it, the writers hate Azula. But it runs deeper than that. Look at the writers whom we have evidence from. What do we notice? First of all, they’re all well into adulthood. Second of all, none of them are both POC and a female. Let’s take a look at the person who is by far the most ableist, misogynistic, entitled, and rude writer to work in that franchise. No, it’s not Bryke.

Gene Yang no longer works on the avatar comics, thankfully. But let’s take a look at his track record while he was there.

He is a huge Zuko fan. So? It’s important that the writer likes their characters. But I’ll tell you why Gene’s interpretation of Zuko is so incredibly problematic.

Zuko appears in every. single. comic. All the ones that Yang wrote. The gaang doesn’t show up in Smoke and Shadow. Toph doesn’t show up in the Search. His favorite character to use is obviously Zuko because I can’t tell you the amount of times he has unnecessarily been included in scenes.

He gave Zuko everything. If you asked Zuko what he wanted at the end of the series, it would be his mother and a relationship with his sister. Yang? He’s pulls Ursa from the ground below and gives Zuko a brand new perfect and angelic sister. But more on her later. He even gives him dragon fire which is just dumb because it doesn’t actually do anything but look cool unlike Azula’s fire. Which is why he did it, to level Zuko up with Azula.

There can(’t) be Zuko with Azula. Every single time Azula showed up in those comics was to serve Zuko’s goals literally or in terms of plot. Yang has explicitly stated that it isn't possible for Azula to find happy closure and the dynamic of Zuko and Azula was explicitly intended to be like that of a severely mentally ill person and caretaker. He exacerbated her mental illness for Zuko's narrative. The whole thing horrified me because it was like one of those movie scenes where hero says the villain can’t get away with his actions but the villain smirks and says, “I already have.”

He goes out of his way to demonize Azula. He makes Zuko have nightmares of his three year old sister and makes her seem awful for stealing food at a sleepover. He makes her kidnap children to help Azula’s agenda. Honestly, it’s just stupid writing.

Bryke

They simply don’t understand Azula. They call her a soulless crazy mess and someone commends Azula’s sympathy and complexity they take credit.

Honestly, the others are minimal and sound like antis I could find on tumblr.

So what then? Is this the end for Azula? Not quite. Avatar Studios is Azula’s last chance at canon redemption. But the only way it will happen properly is simple. Female writers, people. Several of them. Tired of watching female characters be mauled by the plot and narrative while they’re male counterparts are glorified.

#Azula #azula avatar #Azula deserved better #azula redemption arc #atla azula #azula and zuko #zuko avatar #atla zuko #atla comics #avatar the last airbender #anti bryke

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hishoukoku · 3 years

Note

"your opinion on _____Kataang" . I genuinely wanna know why altho ik hate itYou can even choose not to answer this..

Okay...I've seen this one coming as I've thrown in hints (and anti posts) without fully explaining myself, so here goes.

I understand the things I might say may not be new, it's just my own POV as well.

Why I don't ship Kataang:

1. The crush:

Atla has thrown in crumbs of Aang developing a crush on Katara from early on, too early on. They set it up in a way that Katara is indifferent towards him, as anyone would be, there are bigger things at stake than romancing a child she just met.

Even so, you might think hah that's cute, except the forced crush narrative went at great lengths so that we don't forget who Aang's crush is and for whom he would foil the actually neatly setup main plot narrative (yk the one that should be more important)

It's almost as if there's no way to 'show not tell' this narrative, it's like there's no romantic spark or connection that would speak for itself in this relationship. Spoiler: there isn't.

Bryke needed to constantly remind us that "Aang likes katara (likes her 'like that..') don't forget guys, otherwise the ending we planned will make no sense." Spoiler: It doesn't!

2. Katara being Aang's guardian:

At the exact same time the big crush happens, we see Katara repeatedly being portrayed as Aang's motherly figure. If you think "wait I thought that was cute too" then I need to ask "In which way exactly?"

The sad truth is, women being written as their male partner's motherly figure has been happening ever since cishet male writers picked up a pen for the first time. Some people view this as typical normal behaviour.

I think it's unfair.

Unfair to whom? Mainly & more importantly, to Katara.

They deliberately set it up so that Aang is her rebellious child (but then also lover? helpno) that needs discipline and her 100% unbridled attention as to not stray from the right path or to lift him up when he's down.

Of course that alone is fine, Katara doesn't complain, she's the strongest of the group, she's been doing the same with Sokka since they were little, the responsibilities she carried, she did so proudly without question, for her brother.

So, is Aang her child when he loses focus and track of the real objective, when he's moody and afraid, when he can't tell right from wrong...and THEN her lover when he 'saves the world'?

Because 1. that's a bit F-ed and hypocritical and 2. that sounds like Katara would be his prize for having defeated the villain and carrying him all the way.

3. Lack of mutual trust and understanding:

Sure, they've known each other since episode one, sure they've been next to each other all the way, as we're all constantly being reminded...so how come after all that Aang cannot truly understand Katara's feelings and is so quick to judge and offer subjective advice when she's in real need of moral support, comfort and understanding.

I'm not saying he took her for granted when he himself had troubles but he took her for granted when h-

Aang dismissing and brushing off Katara's feelings and forcing his own views and beliefs, isn't proof of him caring for her. It's proof of him (most likely unknowingly, due to inexperience) belittling and suppressing her grief, until she forgets and forgives.

Which isn't what she needs, which is unhealthy.

I'm not blaming him per say, because he couldn't do better. He didn't understand her enough to do better in that situation. He never saw that side of Katara, because she wouldn't let him see it. She dealt with everything herself and took on with dealing with his problems and the responsibility he carried instead. (like a mother should). And that's fine, when the narrative is intended to show you this is who they are (see point 2) ), but it's not fine when the narrative has plans for them to have a 'love story(?)'

4. Inappropriate kissing + storming off like a child who has just shown his parent he's mad + cut to married ending?....... - need I say more here?

Anyway this got too long and I also tried to keep each point short. I admit, I wanted to do this for a while. So thank you for the ask, nonetheless.

ask game

#anon #ishidareplies #phew this was a lot #before the antis find my askbox #I'm writing this as objectively as I could based on observing these 2 characters interact #please take note of how i didn't mention my own ship here #before you come at me for what I ship instead of what I said #atla meta #kinda salty ig but what can u do #anti kataang #aang #katara #atla

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silima · 3 years

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opal actually calls bolin out in his bullshit whereas suki’s “feminism” was just like “i can fight too” and boom! light skinned (white passing actually, she literally has red hair and blue eyes like wtf) girl is the feminist icon whereas dark skinned girl is just rude. didn’t sokka ruin katara’s life ever since kya died? like yeah suki kicks ass and that’s cool, but does she call sokka out in his shitty behaviour towards his sister?

of course it’s not women’s job to teach men but like?? then don’t idolize a ship where both parts are performatively feminist over a ship where the woman isn’t silent about man’s shitty behaviour??

why is bryke so obsessed with writing toxic relationships😭 can’t i see some wholesome relationships

also why does suki date him in the first place?? why would suki fall for sokka when katara was out there being badass, gorgeous, feminist, compassionate and literally everything good😭

this rant started as pro-bopal, anti-sukka and it ended as anti-bopal, anti-sukka and pro-sukitara LMAOO my sukitara agenda took over it excuse me

(in reference to this post)

to be honest i don’t understand pieces of your ask like idk how suki is supposed to teach sokka to be better about how he acts toward katara when suki barely even interacts with katara in her early appearances much less knows her well enough to get involved in that, i’m not sure who the “rude” dark-skinned girl ur talking about is, et cetera. but mostly i meant that sukka has a lot of scenes that are legitimately cute and charming whereas bopal tries to do that but it comes out weird as hell instead

look at those eyes. she wants out

who thought this was cute

#i stole the screenshots from syd’s twitter threat thank u syd for ur lesbian opal agenda we love to see it #ask #anon #**THREAD NOT THREAT 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

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aroace-mako · 3 years

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what's your take on antis hating mako for being a cop

this post talks about my thoughts on that a bit at the end! but there’s a far better post by @avatar-state-kate on the subject. i have it somewhere on my account but this is the second time i’ve lost it:/

but the gist is that copaganda and romanticism of authority figures (i.e. the government) is an incredibly big issue throughout the entire show. and frankly people ignore all those issues in favor of just saying “acab i hate mako!”

i generally think it’s just an excuse to hate on an obviously traumatized character who doesn’t act traumatized in the way they would like, or else they would be applying that same standard to lin beifong and the rest of the show.

mako was probably written as a cop to indicate he’s self-sacrificial and cares about doing the right thing, which is obviously the exact opposite of what cops actually are. again this is copaganda, which has everything to do with bryke’s biases and very little to do with his actual character.

thanks for the ask!

edit: here it is

#anon #mako #lok fandom crit #cops tw

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i-am-extremely-mad · 3 years

Text

It shocks me over and over again when I come across blogs that extremely aggressively, absolutely HATE LOK, Korra, korrasami and practically every character and aspect of the show. I have to share this horror with others because these are just a small part of the awful views from that blog (supposedly feminist and lesbian), interestingly, attitudes about LOK and korrasami were mostly positive or at least neutral in 2014-2015, and then abruptly changed sometime in the middle of last year which coincides with LOK finally being on Netflix, I will probably respond to if I am in the mood for a toxic discussion...

Anonymous asked:

“I think it's a bit hypocritical that you hate Korra's personality and not Zuko's.Zuko is arrogant asshole bitch and you like him. I never see you criticizing him like you do with Korra”

“Zuko is an arrogant asshole bitch, but he’s not annoying. Korra is an arrogant asshole bitch and is very annoying. Hope this helps!”

#asks#anti lok#going to absolutely BLOW YOUR MIND to find out that the quality of the media itself determines how much I like a character#as well as the quality of the characters development#also this isn't math there is no transitive property for liking characters#some hit and some don't#get over it#Anonymous

Anonymous asked:

“As soon as I heard “I’m the Avatar; you’ve gotta deal with it!” I knew I would fucking hate that show. I naturally hate people who are like that. If Bryke was still smart they would have thought to make Korra’s personality more like water similar to Aang with air, not “haha fuck you, I’m avatar haha!”

“LOL YEP like 3 seconds into the show you hear that, and understand EXACTLY what the rest of LOK is going to be like. Not only is a jarring contrast to Aang and every other Avatar we’ve seen, it directly contradicts everything we know about the Avatar cycle from ATLA. All the other Avatars have to be TOLD that they are the Avatar, and have to work hard to master their non-native elements. Korra just naturally being able to bend 3 elements when she’s like 5 tells you everything you need to know about how the creators of LOK went about making their show: worldbuilding and logic don’t matter, it’s all about flashy visuals and one-time gags.”

#asks#anti lok#DISGOSTING#'meh meh if korra was a MAN you wouldn't call her arrogant' I absolutely would#korra being a dickhead is not okay just because she's a woman#Anonymous

Anonymous asked:

“Korrasami is shit,a joke, boring af, they don't have romantic chemistry, asami acts like a big sister towards korra. there I said it for you.”

“OOP! Well, I certainly didn’t say it!”

#asks#anti lok#but ur right#ACTUALLY I disagree on one point#asami doesn't act like a sister to korra#they act like work colleagues that only ever hang out during their lunch break#they act like very distant cousins that only talk on facebook#they act like people that share mutual friends but don't know each other that well#okay I'll stop#Anonymous

“Korra: 1/10, I will see myself out the door to be CANCELLED! Not only was her character very unlikeable, but the way fandom reared up to defend this (quite frankly) terrible character under the guise of “wokeness” when it is clear that the creators sprinkled in just enough ~representation~ to get brownie points without actually saying anything meaningful is just EMBARRASSING. Korra defenders are being manipulated by those cishet white men they hate so much, and they do it gladly. Anyway, I find Korra boring, disrespectful, and underdeveloped.”

#asks#ask game#character ask game#anti lok#SORRY YALL LOK'S CHARACTERS ARE BAD#also korra gives off 'mean feminine lesbian who calls gnc women slurs' vibes#korra and asami would bully me and then call me a homophobe#and kuvira gives off such heterosexuelle vibes I simply CANNOT with her#thetpot

“IT’S SO VILE! Korra is barely even an active character in her own show! She’s just a vessel that gets beaten and broken over and over again. She doesn’t actually get to LEARN from any mistakes that she makes, she’s just forced to recover from these external traumas that have literally nothing to do with her.

Ugh, tbh I feel NOTHING for korrasami. Korra and Asami don’t speak about anything except Mako for most of the show, and only really start actually TALKING to each other in the last half of season 4. None of Korra’s friends really spend that much time together throughout the runtime of the show tbh.

But yeah, it’s frustrating that people tout LOK as this amazing show staring a queer WOC, but the people making the show HATED Korra and HATED developing her in a meaningful way.”

Anonymous asked:

“Korra was like Zuko at the beginning of the show, now she in season 4 is like Aang. Bryke gave kuvira a redemption bc team avatar was missing a Zuko. now she is the new zuko and not Korra.”

Sorry, my brain short circuited. You think Korra???? Is like Aang???? That might be the most offensive thing I have ever received in this askbox.

#asks#anti lok#KORRA IS LIKE AANG#IN WHAT UNIVERSE#HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY BOY LIKE THIS#I WON'T STAND FOR IT#Anonymous

“also lock me in lesbian prison but korrasami is WEAK! they didn’t have a single conversation that wasn’t about mako for 3.5 seasons!!! they had zero moments together to indicate that asami would be the only person that korra would write to!!! yall tricked me, I thought I was getting some gay shit.

#anti lok#I SAID WHAT I SAID#korra had more chemistry in her one scene with opal than she ever did with asami”

Anonymous asked:

What do you think of korrasami?

no thank u, I don’t feel like being called a homophobe by a bunch of straight women today.

#asks#anti lok#a hornet's nest I will not be swinging at on this Monday lmao#I hate everything in lok you do the math#I'm sure I've talked about my issues with korrasami on my blog SOMEWHERE#have fun!#Anonymous

Not me seeing posts giving LOK and Korrasami credit for queerness in animation when Steven Universe, Adventure Time, and She-Ra were doing it unapologetically, openly, right from the very beginning....

#anti lok#TESTING MY GODDAMN PATIENCE#if korrasami was individually influential for you as a queer woman that's FINE#but do NOT give this insane credit to the cishet writing team of LOK!!!#not when these other shows were made by ACTUAL QUEER WOMEN#DISGOSTING

Anonymous asked:

if ur looking for an actual well-written canon wlw pairing in the atla verse, there’s rangshi. fc yee works so hard to fix all of bryke’s garbage, bless his soul. i have no hope for anything avatar studios related, but if fc yee is in the writer’s room, then there may be a very marginal chance that the stuff coming out is at least somewhat worthy of being associated with atla. the worldbuilding that he’s done in rise of kyoshi is insane.

I have heard good things about the Kyoshi novels! Unfortunately, LOK is the drop of shit that has poisoned the entire water supply. All ATLA-related works are going to have to be LOK compliant now, which is so deeply restrictive and contradictory to what I liked about ATLA in the first place. I feel like pre-canon stuff is safer (and again, heard AMAZING things about what FC Yee has done with a pre-ATLA world), but I guess I’m too cynical to get really invested in any more ATLA stuff anymore.

#asks#atla#anti lok#put Nat in charge of Avatar Studios and THEN we'll talk#finally get the thotty aang and amazing worldbuilding THAT WE DESERVE#Anonymous

I know, this was awful to see...

#LOK #r/ant #personal r/ant #this fandom sometimes is just... ugh #some people are just so... ugh #some people are just disgusting #Haters gona hate #horrendous #disgusting #pathetic #UGHH

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hello-nichya-here · 2 years

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Sorry for being abrasive, but why is it that you avoid any works that try to deal with the comics? Because, and this is directed towards Azula stans in general and not just you, if we keep avoiding the comics &/or engaging in canon denialism in general, doesn't it feed into Azula Anti's beliefs that Azula stans just only like the image of Azula in their heads as well as allow the antis to control the discourse? 1/2

2/2 And this is bad since Bryke is obviously influenced by social media and thus us allowing the antis to control the discourse will led them to continue portraying Azula in a "bad" way? Or at least continue to portray Azula as the one dimensional power hungry Joker clone that they have been doing post-TV show and not as the complex character that we fell in love with?

***

I fucking wish that the whole disaster with Azula was my only problem with the comics. That is just a symptom of why I don't consider them canon - the actual reason for it is because the writers completely lost track of who the characters and themes in the story are.

Aang is a pacifist, one of Zuko's closest friends, and spared Ozai's life, even though the fucker is one of the most evil people ever. The comics made him agree to kill Zuko if he turned into a second Ozai, even though he was still refusing to kill Ozai.

Mai and Zuko's relationship became a shitty attempt a doing a Will-They-Won't-They romance, and in true Ross and Rachel fashion only made the two of them, especially Mai, look like horrible people.

Ursa was canonically willing to kill for her children, and despite her mistakes as a mother you could still see that she WAS trying to guide Azula towards the right path. In the comics she basically acts like Azula isn't even her kid, writes letter (that she KNOWS Ozai is going to read) saying that Zuko is actually a bastard, goes away without saying a single word of goodbye to Azula and only accidentally having one last interaction with Zuko (which directly contradicts what we saw in Zuko Alone with her intentionally waking him up to say goodbye), she chooses to forget everything about her life despite telling Zuko "Never forget who you are", and when she recovered her memories she didn't give a shit that Azula (who is mentally unstable) is running around all alone, and doesn't even fucking ask how the hell Zuko got that scar on his face.

Ikem, Ursa's new husband and alleged good guy, deliberately tries to prevent her from regaining her memories, even though he knows there's two traumatized kids that just want their mother back, because what if she likes the kids she had with Ozai more than the one she had with him?

And last but not least, Zuko and the Gaang, the supposed good guys, the characters we all grew to love, throw Azula, a 14-year-old girl and Zuko's little sister, in an abusive asylum where she's constantly being physically abused and restrained even when she is not doing anything, forget about her for an entire year, immediately start partaking in said abuse once they finally see her - because they need something. Azula is then shown as the bad guy for thinking they're full of shit when they say they want to help her, even though anyone with half a brain can tell she is 100% right. This isn't justice, and considering Azula can't tell what's real or understand why they're doing what they're doing it isn't even revenge. Is the Gaang being cruel for the sake of being cruel - which is completely out of character for every single one of them. I remind you that this was written by the same men who, even when Zuko was at his lowest, made sure the audience never forgot that the abuse he endured wasn't okay just because he was antagonist. That was completely lost in the comics AND was replaced by a fuck-ton of ableism and victim blaming, because "Well, she is a bad guy, so it makes sense that the Gaang is supporting her being abused"

I love Azula, but even with her sympathetic background and redeeming qualities, the whole time I was watching the show I was rooting for the Gaang whenever there was any conflict between them. In the comics, I was 1000% on her side, and the most satisfying moment was seeing her redirect Zuko's lightning right in his fucking face. All because that storyline assassinated the heroes' characters so badly, that Azula, even at her worse, became the sympathetic underdog by default.

Bryke are grown ass men. If they can't separate entitled fans from genuine criticism, and will "punish" all the fans by reducing the characters to shitty parodies of themselves, essentially acting like two toddlers throwing a tantrum because their mom didn't let them have cookies before dinner, that's on them. I'm not gonna stop complaining that they ruined Zuko's character out of fear that they'll undo his redemption arc and/or decide that it was actually his fault that Ozai abused him. The same applies to what they're doing to Azula.

I won't pretend their retcons are canon and that the terrible writting decisions they made are actually good out of fear that they'll do something worse. I don't care if they created my favorite characters and my favorite show, if their writing gets so bad that it makes me wish I was watching the Shyamalan movie, I'm gonna call them out on it because holy shit what the fuck happened?

#asks #azula meta #azula deserved better #atla comics #the comics suck #bryke critical #atla fandom problems #fuck this fandom #there are no comics in ba sing se #ableism #abuse mention #zuko deserved better #the gaang deserved better #i deserved better

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