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#anti-kataang
yourhighness6 · 24 days
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I mentioned something about this awhile ago but it is absolutely incredible to me how Mai is an interesting and important character when the writers chose to explore her relationships with Ty Lee and Azula and the trauma she suffered when her parents tried to shove her into the role of perfect Fire Nation lady, but looses all of her dimensions the moment she was paired romantically with Zuko. It kind of reminds me of what happened with Katara in the comics.
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the-badger-mole · 5 months
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It is baffling to me how Kataang shippers interpret that couple. How can you be a fan of Katara in specific and see how little agency she got in that relationship yet still be satisfied with how that whole mess turned out. Katara never gets to express her feelings.
Let that sink in. Katara, who challenged a waterbending master with decades of experience on her, who started a prison riot and freed captive earthbenders, who went out of her way to help a village of Fire Nation citizens. Who made a flower hat for a really cute guy she was into. THAT girl didn't get to express her own feelings for Aang. After their last two disastrous encounters- one in which he violated her consent after she tried to let him down easy said she was confused. After he had opened a lava fissure in her face because she didn't want to talk about his feelings for her. She didn't even get to speak. Her final line between the Agni Kai and that final scene was about Sokka's drawing.
She doesn't get to talk to Aang about how his treatment of her upset her. She doesn't get to express what changed between EIP and the finale. She doesn't get to confront Aang on his habit of running away when things get tough. She doesn't even get to hear what Aang likes about her (I mean, we the audience know that he thinks she's pretty, but beyond that?). The way the finale sets up Kataang it makes it seem like Katara is only into Aang now because he's Th3 r3@L H3r0!!!! (lies, but that's another rant). It makes her look either like she feels obligated or she's incredibly shallow (which, we know she isn't). But somehow this feels like a satisfying culminating moment for Kataang shippers???
And let me be clear, I don't care. I don't care if you are reading this now and you like both Kataang and Aang. I don't care if you truly do think their story is the height of romance. I am not here to debate you on the story merits of Kataang vs Zutara or change your mind on anything. You can like or hate whatever you want in good health as far as I'm concerned. Just know that if you try to argue with me, this is my opinion; Aang is fetid trash. Kataang is somehow both the most boring and the most toxic relationship in the show (yeah, I'm including Maiko). All trying to argue with me will accomplish is to stir up more examples in my mind about why Kataang is a terrible ship and Aang is an awful character/friend/SO/father, so jump into my inbox if you want that. But wouldn't you rather go talk to your fellow shipper fans about it?
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cleverheroine · 15 days
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Honestly at this point if you still don't know Zuko and Katara are soulmates......blink twice if you're being held against your will.
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miss-sweetea-pie · 6 months
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Zutara lens vs k.ataang lens.
I been thinking about how some of the messages in avatar Change if you watch them through a k.ataang lens vs a zutara lens.
The big one is Jet.
In the zutara lens, jetara can be seen as foreshadowing for zutara. Jet and zuko have alot in common. Rugged teenage boys with traumatic back stories. They both betray katara and test her character, katara’s biggest strength and weakness is her companion. Katara is extremely trusting and it’s really satisfying to see her grow but she never loses her ability to love. The one difference we see is Zuko working to earn her forgiveness. jet could have had this arc too but his untimely death cut it short. I don’t think jet was all that bad of person he was consumed by grief and bitterness, and I think he did feel bad for hurting katara, when his life flashes before his eyes she was a big piece of it. He even told her that he changed. He just didn’t have the time to show her.
Taking it a little deeper jet dying could also foreshadow Zuko almost dying from lightning. It’s a bittersweet lesson how we waste time holding grudges and sometimes people don’t have the luxury of apologizing to the people they love. Just a thought.
So from a k.ataang lens it leads more towards the lesson that katara need to stop letting these “bad boys” break her heart, “dumb girl your too trusting just give the sweet guy a chance”. And some will feel these types of lessons have aged poorly, but they were quite common in the early 2000s and targeted at kids especially for shows with male leads. But I do believe that this contradicts the overall message of avatar as a whole. In the episode the avatar and the fire lord, it explains how all people are capable of good and evil. And people need to be given a chance. People are complex. But I guess not if they are a “bad boys” who want your forever girl those guy are just bad. Also I think this is why a lot of people misunderstand the southern raiders episode and why Zuko gets characterized as the manipulator and katara is misguided and need the “nice guy” to save her.
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occupyvenus · 2 months
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Guess who's started to watch the Atla liveaction remake, only to be swept away by a massive wave of nostalgia for the original, stopped watching the remake half-way-through and decided to do her first proper OG Atla rewatch since before TLoK aired instead?
Yes, me. It's me.
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Get ready, cause I'm gonna blog about Atla the way I would have back in 2000-fucking-8 if I had had access to a functioning internet connection.
Blacklast #zutara and #anti-bryke RIGHT NOW if you don't want daily updates on why Zutara should have been canon.
Welcome to the twisted mind of 15-year-old me.
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PS I just reached The Storm and I AM NOT OKAY
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pink-concorde · 1 year
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And although I’ll be out of sight, dear Know I'll be right here Right here forever, ever, ever, ever
When you look to the night skies Don’t think of goodbyes Think how I’m right here ever, ever, ever
Come
No, you can't come with me Stay
I wish I could -“The Goodybye Song” from Smash
…so this is angst (Aangst) and the closest I’ll probably ever get to canon compliant. The sad tale of Fire Lord Zuko and Master Katara; forever pining after each other while they put the greater good first.
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dyingroses · 1 year
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linnoya-writes · 1 year
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Kataang “But it’s only a 2-year age difference!” argument
Ah yes.  The amount of times KAs bellow this, along with “...but Katara was a mother to everyone!” can wallpaper my entire apartment.  
Let me deep-dive as to why a 2-year age difference is actually much more significant between a mature teenager like Katara and a carefree kid like Aang, particularly in the universe of ATLA.
The ATLA world isn’t structured like our modern day, where 14/15-year-old girls worry about Algebra tests and Homecoming dates, or 12/13-year-old boys only have to skip down a couple blocks from their junior high to the big-kid school to meet their first crush “forever girl” for some ice-cream and Instagram Selfies after her friendly tennis practice, and French Kiss under the bleachers before her big brother catches them and nearly vomits from Oogies.
Oh no.  The ATLA world is very much a dystopian, post-war world... where children like Katara, Sokka, Suki, Jet, Yue, Azula and Zuko had to forfeit any sense of normal childhood and instead take up more mature responsibilities for themselves and those around them.  Toph even had to learn to be independent and raise herself for survival, despite being the same age as Aang.
What separates Aang from the other young characters is that he actually got to have a normal childhood.  
Aang lived in the air temples, where monks lived in isolation and cultivated their own food and treated living things differently from the rest of the world.  They travelled everywhere, but kids like Aang were shielded from any sense of conflict or confrontation, and they definitely weren’t raised to see the world as a societal, economical hierarchy.  The pre-ATLA AirNomad world raised carefree innocent kids who got to take their time to grow up, because they never had to prepare for a brutal, cruel, unforgiving world where people and creatures they loved could die outside of natural causes.
Aang mastered airbending naturally, and for fun.  It wasn’t to prepare for war, but for his proud cultural heritage.  On the other hand, Katara worked herself to the bone to master waterbending... not for fun... but to fight in a war, to help train the Avatar to end this 100-year-war, and to maintain a delicate connection to her cultural heritage that has all but died out.  
Katara and Aang’s perspectives have been different since the beginning.
And the “2 years is not that big a deal!” argument totally overlooks their maturity gap as characters.
Katara was a girl raised in a remote war-torn village in the South Pole.  She lost her mother in this war and had to internalize that grief for years as she took up more adult responsibilities to help her small village.  By the time she was Aang’s age, she cooked for people, cleaned for people, helped raise other people’s children... and, as seen in the S.2 episode “The Serpent’s Pass,” she didn’t flinch when having to deliver babies out of women’s vaginas.
Katara is 14, going on 25.
Aang, not having been raised in a war, was a kid.  He was that carefree, playful, innocent soul up in the Southern Air Temple who loved games, and recess, and pulling pranks on his teachers.  At the age of 12, Aang still hasn’t had to learn to be responsible in an economical world that functions through jobs, currency, and self-sufficiency (and he’ll probably never have to, since the Avatar title rewards him with free-loading hospitality anywhere he goes).  When Katara someone isn’t willing to cook for him, Aang’s instinct is to dumpster-dive for lettuce, as seen in the S.3. episode “The Headband”.  This is also the episode where, not only is Katara comfortable enough to dress up as Aang’s (pregnant!) mom, but Aang gleefully shows off his grade-school crafting skills with dried-macaroni collage artwork of Ozai-- you know, the kind that children usually give to their parents to proudly post on the refrigerator?  And this wasn’t sweet-innocent doe-eyed Aang from Season 1.  This was kid-emotionally-processing-some-real-world-shit-Season 3 Aang.  His maturity was still lacking.  And let’s not forget that, before the iceberg... the most horrifying thing Aang had to deal with was cleaning his own room.
Aang was 12, going on 8.
Even in the final scene of the show, Aang is still that kid, sitting on the ground and playfully teasing his pet lemur with a toy while the older teens mingle with tea and paintings and critical-thinking games like PaiSho.
The maturity gap was very much present through the end.
And I have a hard time believing Aang even knew what a vagina was, by the time he and Katara french-kissed in the finale. 
Look.  The point is not whether or not Aang did know.  The point is, you, a hypothetical Kataang fan... had to stop for a moment to consider that.
And that’s what makes Kataang weird.
Now excuse me while I grab some more wallpaper glue. :P
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snogards · 1 month
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I think it's really telling that the only ships I actively dislike and express disdain for in atla are 2 of the 3 canon ships
And sukka isn't one of them.
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perfectlypanda · 2 years
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AtLA Ship Poll - Vote Buying? (A humorous hypothesis and experiment)
Disclaimer 1: I’m tagging this anti-Kataang not because it’s actually against the ship, but because it could be perceived as such, so it’s getting the precautionary tag. It’s really not looking at the ship, but looking at what seems to be one... unusually enthusiastic fan.
Disclaimer 2: If there are errors it’s not because I’m purposely trying to prove something but because I’m not a mathematician, so just kindly let me know and I’ll update the numbers.
Disclaimer 3: No matter how many people will claim I must be really upset that my ship lost because “wow you spent so much time on this”, I must emphasize this is just the exact kind of ridiculous thing that I find incredibly funny. 
If you’re in the shipper side of the AtLA fandom, then you’ve probably seen the AtLA Ship Tournament poll on Twitter that’s been running the last few days. I voted in the Zutara/ Kataang poll, saw my ship lost, and promptly was about to stop caring when I saw this post by the Twitter account running the poll: (edit to clarify- the $2000 here isn’t specifically in reference to the AtLA polls. The Twitter account running the poll was retweeting someone else’s post about spending a lot of money on vote buying as a cautionary tale. No idea how much the AtLA vote buyer is spending.)
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Winning or losing might not have been that interesting to me, but the idea of someone being petty enough to pay real money to buy fake votes for an unofficial poll about shipping cartoon characters from a children’s television show was hilarious. 
Now, I didn’t want to make any assumptions without proof, because hey maybe there was an actual influx of voters. Which is when I was struck with the idea - what if, assuming someone did buy those votes, that same person bought votes to win the Kataang vs. Sukka poll, which Sukka was currently winning by a substantial margin? And what if, some other person were to collect data in order to test the hypothesis that someone was buying votes? Spoiler alert - it’s me. I’m that person.
Roughly every hour, I’d take a screenshot of the poll numbers, and then I could use the numbers to see if there was a genuine steady upward trend in one direction or if there was a sudden last minute surge of votes for one side. I recruited my friend A, who lives in a different time zone and is frequently kind enough to indulge my particular brand of crazy, to collect screenshots for me for the hours after I’d be away from my computer (hence why some of the screenshots are in dark mode). Our collection is missing a shot from the 12, 11, and 1 hour out marks, but otherwise captures hourly data from 13 hours until the end of the poll, and the results are wildly entertaining.
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First, the percentage of votes for Sukka vs. Kataang is consistent from 13 hours left through the 2 hours left mark. Sukka hovers around the 65% mark and Kataang hovers around the 35% mark the entire time.
Untilllll the last two hours. I wish I had a screenshot for the 1 hour mark, but alas, we must go without one. Leaving out the number of people between the 13th hour and the 10th hour (as it’s a multi-hour span), the poll averaged 21.75 new voters every hour from 10 hours left until 2 hours left. In the final two hours, the poll received 795 new votes. That’s 34% of all total votes, or slightly over 1/3, happening in the last two hours. Funnier still, of those 795 votes only 34.15 were for Sukka. The other 760.85 were for Kataang.
Serendipitously, all our screenshots happened to capture the Zukka vs. Azuki poll that was posted just below the Kataang/ Sukka match up. If you find the average number of votes per hour from the 10 hour mark to the 2 hour mark for that poll, you have an average of 26.85 new votes per hour. Which is only slightly higher than the 21.75 on the Kataang/ Sukka poll. To me, this indicates that it’s likely the numbers up to that point were genuine, because that’s roughly about the same number of people showing up to vote. In the final two hours, the Zukka/ Azuki poll had 40 new voters. The Kataang/ Sukka poll had 795.
Is it possible that this happened naturally? Yes. Is it kind of improbable? Yeah. But! It was a pattern, as something similar happened in Kataang’s previous match up (Zutara/ Kataang). Is it even more improbable for this to happen naturally twice in a row? You be the judge.
Some final thoughts - Thank you random shipper who is buying votes, because I have been giggling about how ridiculous this whole thing was all day. I’m very excited to see if the vote buyer continues their trend for the final round and slides in with some votes for a last minute win, or, realizing that the jig is up, doesn’t buy more votes and must come to terms with how they’ve unintentionally harmed their ship’s chances in the final by making many voters choose Zukka simply to spite the person buying votes. I care very little who actually wins, because the poll’s accuracy is already unquestionably tainted by this whole affair, but I’m very excited for the chaos.
The poll creator made some follow up posts on the topic, which pretty accurately sum up my other feelings on the matter:
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If you’d like to see the screenshots of the polls, I’ll put them under the read more since this post is already long enough.
They’re unedited except for cropping them, and hiding the mark that would show which sides my friend and I voted for:
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yourhighness6 · 3 months
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It's so funny to me how kat@ang shippers will praise canon like gospel but don't actually seem to understand or remember correctly what happened in the show
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the-badger-mole · 7 months
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In the debate between pro-aang-kill-ozai and anti-aang-kill-ozai. Which side are you on and why? If it's the anti then did you like how it was done or do you picture something else?
I think I've mentioned before, but I am not inherently against Aang not wanting to kill Ozai. Some of my favorite heroes have a no-kill policy. I don't even mind the lionturtle solution itself. What I didn't like was how it was handled. There was plenty of time to address Aang's reluctance to kill before the second to last episode. I can think of three points in particular where it would've been thematically appropriate and given Aang's bland, two-dimensional character some depth.
First, right after the siege at the Northern Tribe. Aang may not have technically been the one who killed all those Fire Nation soldiers, but it couldn't have happened without him. You would think that someone who is both committed to pacifism and also the one the entire world is relying on to end a war that people have been fighting and dying in for a century wouldn't just be able to shrug off what happened. Aang did, though. Didn't even cross his mind when he was whining about people expecting him to kill Ozai.
What should have happened was the next season should've opened with Aang grappling with what happened and his part in it. He should feel guilty about it, not because he was actually wrong, but because it should feel wrong to him. Then, Katara and Sokka should comfort him and tell him he did nothing wrong. Build it up that their word are comforting him a little, then drop the bomb when they start talking about how cool it was. How amazing it was to see all those soldiers running in fear for once. How relieved they are that so many of them died. Then have Aang snap on them about the sanctity of life. He needs to be angry and hurt, and this should be the point where he decries the powers of the Avatar. He'd call himself a monster, and maybe he would call Katara and Sokka monsters, too. Then they (probably mostly Sokka) would argue with him that they aren't monsters, they're just trying to survive, and the Fire Nation is a threat to be taken out. This would be the first time it's brought up that Katara, Sokka...the entire world expect Aang to kill Ozai. I think it would be perfect as a season 2 opener. Season 1 was light and goofy, and Zuko was their biggest immediate threat. The siege raised the stakes, and season 2 should continue on that rising. Aang should also have started looking for another solution here. In the library, Aang should've asked Wan Shi Tong if it was possible to end the war without more violence. We should've seen Aang coming to terms with the fact that the world is suffering and he is the one they are looking to to save them. One thing I think the Harry Potter movies in particular did well was that shift from goofy and whimsical to darker and more frightening (as far as kids movies go) as the story went on and the stakes got higher, and the danger felt more real to the characters. Aang never gets that realization. He has moments when the danger feels real, but he's goofy and whimsical for pretty much the entire series until the plot of an episode needs him not to be.
The second place they should have brought up his reluctance to kill was DoBS. This really should've been a no brainer. Aang was loosing sleep over facing Ozai. He had his anxiety about losing- though not really what losing would mean for his friends and the world- but he didn't even consider what winning would take. If DoBS had been successful, there's no way Ozai would've been able to be taken alive. Logistically, killing him would've been the easiest, safest option. You mean to tell me no one brought it up? No one asked Aang how he was planning to take Ozai out? No, instead we get Aang proving he knows what enthusiastic consent looks like and taking away his excuse for what happened later, but nothing about Aang weighing his personal beliefs against the needs of the world. That training montage and confrontation that he has with his friends in the second to last episode should've happened here. This should've been when his tendency to run away should've been challenged, too, because half a season before he was crying about how he abandoned the world again. Now his instinct would be to run, but his friends would challenge him, calling back to that moment. They could demand that he present an alternative to killing Ozai. I don't think any of them would object to him living to stand trial, but Ozai is a rabid dog, essentially. He needs to be put down. Aang's got nothing, but not for lack of trying. When he tells his friends about all his efforts to find a non-lethal way to defeat Ozai, they are unmoved. They are at the doors of the Fire Nation, and now is not the time to be indecisive. He has to go face Ozai. And he's probably relieved when the plan fails. This whole situation would have the added bonus of skipping that first Kataang kiss because no way would Aang want to kiss Katara after her insisting he terminate Ozai with extreme prejudice.
The third place Aang's no-kill policy should've come up is TSR when Zuko asks him what he's planning to do when he faces Ozai if he's so against killing. This should scare Aang, and it should be his focus for the rest of the season. He should be more withdrawn from his friends, because with all the training he's doing (and he would still be training on all the elements because he's not that good at any of them), talks about the most efficient way to kill would be unavoidable. Katara might actually try to teach him bloodbending. Toph would just tell him that a big rock is just as effective as some fancy bending move. Zuko would be warning him about his father's ruthlessness and cunning. This would be where Aang looses his patience with his friends and insists that he's a pacifist and Ozai doesn't deserve to die. This would piss Katara in particular off because by this point, Aang knows what happened to her mother. He would get an earful about how Ozai's plan is to do to the Earth Kingdom what his grandfather did to the Air Nomads and how he's going to let millions of people die because of his refusal to kill one. Now, Aang can take off, only instead of just running away from his friends because he doesn't want to hear them anymore, he could be making one desperate last ditch attempt to find a solution that both ends the war and keeps him from having to kill Ozai. EIP could still happen in this circumstance, but instead of getting mad that he's being played by a girl, he would focus more on how eager for his death the Fire Nation is. That would come up in the argument about killing Ozai.
Now, for the lionturtle. I'm about to blow some minds. I have been vocal about my hatred of the Lionturtle/Rock of Destiny desu-ex-double team, and I do still hate it with a passion. However, as a concept, I don't mind the lionturtle. This is a fantasy adventure. You expect a bit of magical intervention. What I wanted was Aang grappling with this problem for more than half an episode. I wanted him working on a solution the entire time, starting from right after the siege. I wanted to see him take initiative. To actually think about the problem. Maybe have him specifically looking for the lionturtle. Then when it shows it, it could be because it knew Aang was looking and decided he was worthy of a meeting. Aang could still have his meeting with his past lives, and that could still go the way it did. Then the lionturtle could speak up. Instead of poo-pooing the idea of killing Ozai, it could agree that it was the most effective way to make sure that the war would end. Then, when Aang is despairing that he'd wasted all that time trying to find a different solution, the lionturtle could offer the spirit bending. But it would have to come at a cost, and it might not work the way that Aang hoped. Now Aang has to make a choice. Sacrifice something for this spiritbending ability (I'm thinking he loses his airbending, because it seems poetic) that might not have the outcome he's hoping for, or give up his pacifism- one of his few connections to his heritage- and kill Ozai. He chooses the spiritbending. Instead of the conveniently placed rock, Aang would actually have to give up his attachment Katara. I think he would be half-way there, having finally realized how little he understood her. He "loved" her because she was pretty and took care of him, but he's come to realize there's a lot more facets to her that he hasn't gotten to see because they don't fit his narrow view of her. He also understands what Guru Pathik was trying to tell him about one person not being able to replace everything Aang has lost, and he realizes how unfair to her he had been. He still loves her, but as a friend and caretaker. This will actually lead to a deeper friendship between them. Aang defeats Ozai without killing him, but now he has to deal with the loss of his airbending, which only now does he realize was a much of a connection between him and his people as his beliefs. He still has spiritbending. He can still airbend in the Avatar State, but he's effectively cut off a limb to keep his integrity. He will go the rest of his life wondering if it was worth it, especially after Ozai goes to trial and is sentenced to execution anyway. The effects of that on his children could be explored in LoK.
TL;DR I don't have a problem with Aang not wanting to kill Ozai. I just wanted to see him deal with it before the last minute. I think the show would've been better for it, and Aang would've been a more interesting character.
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cleverheroine · 2 months
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Not Cave of Two Lovers being for Sokka and Katara and not Kataang. XD
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#winforzutara
But the character assassination of Bumi. Turning him from "so wise that other people haven't caught up." To a petulant butthurt bratty child.
I refuse to stand for.
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night-heron-writes · 2 years
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The way ATLA should have handled the non-con EIP kiss was Katara reminding Aang that she fished him out of that iceberg and she can put him back if he doesn’t shape up
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withgirl-sq · 1 year
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For the send a character game Katara
Thank you!
1: sexuality headcanon - Bi-sexual
2: otp - Azutara (Azula + Katara)
3: brotp - Either Katara with Toph or Zuko after they deal with their 'issues' lol
4: notp - In terms of romance, Zutara and anyone that she is related to - I also dislike Kataang (not sure if this is controversial?)
5: first headcanon that pops into my head - Katara hates that she is the 'mom' of the group but she can't help being worried about everyone
6: favorite line from this character - A simple one but it's 'You can't knock me down' from her fight with Pakku
7: one way in which I relate to this character - I also worry unnecessarily about everyone else in my life
8: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character - Her attempts to make jokes lol
9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave? - Cinnamon roll
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zuko-always-lies · 2 years
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Honestly, now I’m getting inspired to do a write up on how few Kataang scenes there are relative to amount of time Katara and Aang are together on screen, compared to every single other canon ship.
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