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gwenllian-in-the-abbey · 3 months

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Anyone who thinks that Rhaenyra calling Helaena "my sweet sister" means anything positive about their relationship or about Rhaenyra's feelings for Heleana needs to go back and re-read the main series (or read it period, because trust me you will understand F&B a lot better with ASOIAF as context).

In ASOIAF "sweet sister" is that phrase is used disparagingly the vast majority of the time. A quick search reveals it is used 82 times, and the character who uses this phrase by far the most is Tyrion when speaking about Cersei (an example from ASOS Tyrion I):

There are also multiple examples of Jaime using it about Cersei too, especially when he's unhappy with her (a random example from AFFC Jaime V):

Other people also use it referring to Cersei, again sarcastically. "Your sweet sister did X." Which makes sense! Cersei is pretty notorious and people gripe about her to her brothers pretty often.

Beyond various people talking about Cersei, the top offender is Viserys, who uses it quite a bit when addressing Dany, usually with a bite of malice (AGOT Daenerys I):

Interestingly, Viserys later calls out to his "sweet sister" when he is begging for his life. I can't imagine that reminding her of all the times he threatened her with those same words helped his case very much.

There's one instance of Arya using it about Sansa when she is giving an insincere apology (AGOT Sansa III):

Here is Theon using it about Asha (ACOK Theon V):

Lysa also uses it about Cat, and her feelings about her "sweet sister" at this point are pretty negative (ASOS Sansa VII):

You get the picture. At the very best, it's used with a fond sort of sarcasm, at worst it's actively spiteful. You can count on one hand the number of times it is used sincerely in the whole entire series, and really there's only one instance, from Edmure to Cat, that I would read as 100% sincere without even a tiny hint of sarcasm. F&B doesn't have anyone's POV to indicate the tone with which Rhaenyra said those words, and although it's possible this might have been the second time in the whole of ASOIAF that we were meant to treat those words as unquestioningly sincere and loving, I think this is a bit like the discourse around "sharply questioned." Those words, in-world, tend to carry a connotation beyond their surface meaning. It would not be something reassuring to hear terms for surrender given using the phrase "sweet sister," and in fact, given that we have no other indication that Rhaenyra has any sort of relationship with her siblings whatsoever, Helaena would be entirely justified in interpreting her words as spiteful or sarcastic. After all, if you're using a quote from the book to speak to Rhaenyra's intentions, the character you're referring to is book!Rhaenyra, who is not shown to be an overly nice person. Even by the most charitable reading, we can safely assume that those words were included by Gyldayn in his history knowing that in-world readers would read them as insincere. They are not intended to portray Rhaenyra and Helaena's relationship in a positive light.

#sweet sister discourse #helaena targaryen #team green #asoiaf #rhaenyra targaryen #fire and blood

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daenystheedreamer · 2 months

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Why is Sansa so hated?

there's different kinds of sansa haters. first would be the reddit crowd, predominantly male and guys who kin tyrion or jon. predisposed to disliking female characters and probably also hate cat. sansa is a little girl who is nobly born and hence a little entitled and naive, which is like double combo target of hate. pretty clearly a case of sexism and media illiteracy. probably also mommy issues.

second group would be the tumblr crowd, predominantly female and really strongly project onto dany or arya. the arya stans especially. there's definitely a lot of media illiteracy going on here and a heaping dose of sexism but it's a lot more about how they projected their personal experiences and insecurities onto these characters. morally neutral and of course its beautiful to relate to and love fictional characters. but the flip side of loving one character who maybe represents you is hating another who represents everything that has made you sad or insecure in life.

usually a character only gets one of these groups of haters, but sansa gets hate from both demographics. sorry babygirl!! youre literally eleven years old!!! im pathologising a lot and usually people just dont like characters for whatever reason but is me connecting the dots.

#ask #Anonymous #sansa stark

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jackoshadows · 11 months

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One of Arya’s canonical relationships often ignored or minimized, because of fandom sexism, is that of her and Rickon Stark. Despite the text mentioning several times that Arya loves to play with babies, this is ignored simply because her character is often critiqued - by both feudal Westeros and fandom - for not performing femininity as per patriarchal ideals.

Arya had loved nothing better than to sit at her father's table and listen to them talk. She had loved listening to the men on the benches too; to freeriders tough as leather, courtly knights and bold young squires, grizzled old men-at-arms. She used to throw snowballs at them and help them steal pies from the kitchen. Their wives gave her scones and she invented names for their babies and played monsters-and-maidens and hide-the-treasure and come-into-my-castle with their children. Fat Tom used to call her "Arya Underfoot," because he said that was where she always was. She'd liked that a lot better than "Arya Horseface." - Arya, AGoT

Arya has a closer relationship with both Bran and Rickon, right from when they are babies - it’s not just a case of her hanging around the boys. When Robb takes Sansa, Arya and Bran down into the crypts to prank them, it’s Arya’s hand that baby Bran clutches when he is scared.

Her brother Robb had taken them down, her and Sansa and baby Bran, who'd been no bigger than Rickon was now. (---) Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. "There are worse things than spiders and rats," he whispered. "This is where the dead walk." That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya's hand. - Arya, AGoT

Sansa’s only nostalgic memory of Rickon in her POV appears when she thinks Arya is safely back in Winterfell:

Once in a while, Sansa even missed her sister. By now Arya was safe back in Winterfell, dancing and sewing, playing with Bran and baby Rickon, even riding through the winter town if she liked. - Sansa, ACoK

And when Arya misses her family back home:

She wanted to tease Bran and play with baby Rickon and have Robb smile at her. - Arya, AGoT

After going on the run, Arya is concerned and worried for Rickon and wonders how tall he would have grown:

A whooping gang of small children went running past, chasing a rolling hoop. Arya stared at them with resentment, remembering the times she'd played at hoops with Bran and Jon and their baby brother Rickon. She wondered how big Rickon had grown, and whether Bran was sad - Arya, AGoT

For a moment Arya forgot to breathe. Dead? Bran and Rickon, dead? What does he mean? What does he mean about Winterfell, Joffrey could never take Winterfell, never, Robb would never let him. Then she remembered that Robb was not at Winterfell. He was away in the west, and Bran was crippled, and Rickon only four. It took all her strength to remain still and silent, the way Syrio Forel had taught her, to stand there like a stick of furniture. She felt tears gathering in her eyes, and willed them away. It's not true, it can't be true, it's just some Lannister lie. - Arya, ACoK

She watched the parchment twist, blacken, and flare up. If the Lannisters hurt Bran and Rickon, Robb will kill them every one. - Arya, ACoK

So canonically it’s Arya who played with baby Rickon, misses him terribly in KL, wonders how tall he has grown and worries over what is happening to him in Winterfell. All this is Arya, not Sansa.

Note: This is not a critique of Sansa and how much she thinks of her family. There is nothing wrong in not wanting to be near babies or not wanting to play with babies. There is nothing wrong in not wanting to hang around little children or not wanting to care for them. Especially as Sansa and Arya are themselves children!! They are only 9 and 11 when the story starts and are now 11 and 13.

This is a critique of a fandom that twists Arya into some ‘NLOG’ caricature, ‘male-coded’, masculine, being violent, impulsive, too damaged, going around biting people, who can only fight or kill, wanting to sail away instead of being home with family, cannot become Lady of Winterfell because she is not the right kind of lady, has internalized misogyny etc. - all because her character disliked a few activities like sewing, singing and dancing. And all the while projecting qualities like motherhood, maternal feelings, womanhood, romance, marriage, children on 11/13 year old Sansa.

Things get even worse with the Jon/Sansa shippers, who turn Jon and Sansa into some masochistic, twisted idea of Ned and Cat (Because of course Jon Snow is a self-loathing, pathetic, shallow, sad sack of shite craving Catelyn’s approval and falling for the daughter who looks like Cat and acts a snob towards him simply because she’s too beautiful to resist at 11 years old 😭) and therefore Rickon is going to see them together and think they are his parents....

Like I said, taking from Arya’s canonical relationships in the books and giving to Sansa because the tradfem section of fandom are unable to read Arya as having a loving and caring relationship with her little siblings.

And then there’s Rickon Stark himself. First of all, Rickon would surely remember Jon Snow and Sansa as his siblings? Why would he think they are Ned and Cat? They are not clones!!

Secondly, Rickon and Shaggy were mirroring each other’s wildness before they even left Winterfell. It’s Shaggydog who was biting people! Rickon then grew up during his formative years with Osha in Skagos or Cannibal Island. Osha is of the Freefolk and the Skagosi, like the Freefolk, talk in the Old Tongue. They live in caves and perform human sacrifices. This Rickon is going to see Jon and Sansa and go all ‘Mama and papa!’ and think he is their baby?! 😂😂😂

Then there’s all these future speculations and theorizing about how Sansa is going to become Rickon’s regent in TWoW. Again, how? Sansa is 13 in the TWoW sample chapter. Is she suddenly going to magically grow 3 years in the next chapter and turn 16? Additionally, the regent should have a good know how of the North to help the Lord of Winterfell run WF and the North - again, canonically it’s Arya who knows how Winterfell works, who refers to her father’s advice and teachings and who follows her father’s idea of Northern justice.

The only Stark/Snow who currently has the age and experience to become anyone’s regent is Jon Snow. And I don’t even see him being appointed as one, rather it’s more likely he is made KITN.

So after Bran, the Stark closest to Rickon is Arya. And then it’s most possibly Jon Snow. Jon who tells Tyrion to take a message for Rickon in Winterfell and Rickon who stopped to tell Jon hi at the feast and kept asking Bran why Jon was not sitting with them.

The only reason 13 year old Sansa keeps being connected to Rickon as some kind of maternal mother figure is because of fandom sexism and their rigid ideas of gender, femininity and even toxic masculinity.

#Arya Stark #Rickon Stark #asoiaf #Fandom sexism

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asongofstarkandtargaryen · 1 month

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Her mother used to say she would be pretty if she wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress, the way her sister did

ADWD, THE BLIND GIRL

This is exactly the backhanded compliment that parents should never use with their children. Parents should consider their kids beautiful and tell them so unconditionally, not only when they meet some specific criteria of theirs.

In context it makes sense that Arya has a low self esteem and doesn't consider herself beautiful since her own mother never told her so. Right before this quote she mentions that the only people who called her pretty were her father ( the other parent who also should unconditionally consider beautiful - and thankfully Ned did so) and ometimes Jon,too (her brother, not obligated to act as a parent should but he did a better job than her mother on this matter).

Also, parents shouldn't compare children to their siblings. Especially not when they try to teach their kids how to improve on something. It only creates more hostility between siblings and develops antagonism between them. On this aspect Catelyn isn't only failing Arya (who is the person mostly affected by that comment) but Sansa, too.

In Arya's case, after that comment she can only feel lesser than her "perfect" sister. There is no child who is perfect. Sansa and Arya, like any other kid, have both stregths and weaknesses. However, when Catelyn is highlighting the things Sansa is succeeding to make Arya improve this only serves to reinforce to Arya that Sansa has achieved perfection to her mother's eyes and since she's not like her sister (because different people, different skills) she will always be a failure. It makes her self worth to drop and makes her jealous of her sister who get their mother's approval.

In Sansa's case, if she is also present when those backhanded compliments are given to Arya then it reinforces to her that she's superior to her sister(because she's successful where her sister fails). This isn't a good lesson for a kid because instead of learning about acceptance of people who have different skills, she is taught that only her own skills matter and that she's superior to others (and not just any other, her own sister). It doesn't help their sibling bond if she starts considering her sister inferior to her.

Even in case she's not present when Catelyn gives these comments to Arya and she's spared the above ( wrong ) lesson, she's still affected by it. Because her sister will be jealous of her supposed superiority ( according to their mother) and be hostile towards her. Her mother's comments isn't something she can control but still will affect her relationship with her sister, in any case.

#Arya stark #Catelyn stark #sansa stark #asoiaf meta #valyrianscrolls #a post of ice and fire

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sad-endings-suck · 1 year

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GRRM Loves Convoluted Succession

Stark Succesion

Bran is technically heir to Winterfell except he is believed to be dead and cannot father children/heirs.

Which would make Rickkon heir to Winterfell, but he is also believed to be dead.

So Sansa is heir to the North, but she has been disinherited due to marrying into the Lannister family. However, if Tyrion is believed to be dead then she could potentially be restored to succession as the Northerners know her Lannister marriage is the only reason she was removed from the line of succession.

Though if that never comes to pass, then Arya is heir, but she is also believed to be dead.

Ah, and Jon has been legitimized by Robb, which makes Jon heir to the North, but only if the Northmen come out of the war victorious with a Stark monarch. Because only a King can legitimize a bastard (and whether or not Robb was a proper King is debatable and depends on if the North successfully achieves independence). Not to mention how Jon’s Targaryen blood could further complicate things.

Targaeryan Succession

If Young Griff can actually prove he is Aegon son of Rhaegar, then he would be heir to the iron throne (never mind the Targaryen’s were usurped). However, Rhaegar and his children were taken out of the line of succession and Viserys was made Aerys heir (whether or not this is valid who knows).

If it is valid, then that means Daenerys’ claim is the best. Plus, she can actually prove she’s who she says she is, and more importantly she has dragons and possibly lots of powerful backers in the near future.

Jon would have a solid claim if Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, except even if they were no one would see that marriage as valid (the show was so dumb for that). Because Rhaegar had consummated his marriage to Elia and produced heirs with her. Ah, but if Young Griff is a Blackfyre then Jon’s claim would potentially still be better than his. Also, regardless of his bastardly, if Jon were to become consort to Daenerys that could strengthen both their claims and Young Griff would be in a very poor position politically if they did so.

Lannister Succession

Jaime would be heir to Casterly Rock, except that he is a member of King’s Guard and cannot hold lands or titles. However, he could potentially be released from his King’s Guard vows (due to the precedent set by releasing Barristen Selmy), and in that case he would be heir to Casterly Rock.

Tyrion would be next in line in Lannister succession, except that he is a kinslayer and for all intents and purposes an exile with no real claim. Unless of course the throne was usurped again, and the new monarch restored Tyrion as heir to Casterly Rock.

As it stands right now, Cersei is the rightful Lady of Casterly Rock. However, as stated above, that is likely subject to change once she no longer possesses the Iron Throne. Plus, if Jaime were released from his vows he could challenge her claim (he probably wouldn’t, but who knows).

Greyjoy Succession

So technically Theon is the heir to the Iron Isles, except that he is believed to be dead, was presumably passed over in favour of Asha, and cannot produce heirs himself.

Which leaves Asha with the best claim. Except that a Kingsmoot was called (fuck you very much for that Aeron) and Euron was declared King of the Iron Isles.

Except, that due to the fact that Theon is actually alive (and has the best-ish claim) but was not allowed to press his claim at the Kingsmoot, that makes the Kingsmoot, well, moot. Seeing as Theon is alive and was not allowed to be “voted for” so to speak. Making Euron’s claim via the Kingsmoot invalid. Also, it’s already tricky enough for a brother to press a claim against a daughter, but for a brother to press a claim against a daughter and a son is a hell of a lot harder. Especially when your whole claim relied on, A) a man having more rights than a woman, and B) a one night popularity contest. Still, he’s a King as of now and will be hard-pressed to give it up.

Victarion… lmfao

Aeron. This is even more pathetic somehow.

Martell Succession

Arrianne was heir to Dorne, but then (presumably) she was betrothed to Viserys with the intent being for her to be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. But Viserys died, which means she is again first in line for Dorne.

Quentyn was (presumably) meant to rule Dorne until Viserys died and he was pushed back in succession.

Tully Succession

Edmure is now Lord of Riverrun, except that he has no heir. So if for some reason he and his wife Roslin Frey die before they have children, then one of Catelyn’s kids would be heir to Riverrun (as she is the next in line due to seniority, but dead herself).

Arryn Succession

Robert Arryn of course, has the best claim, but if he doesn’t make it to the end of the series then Harry the Heir is next up. And who knows who would be next after him.

Baratheon Succession

As Robert and Renly are dead, Stannis is definitively Lord of Storm’s End. However, he only has one heir, Shireen. Who GRRM has confirmed will die, likely quite soon. Which leaves Stannis without an heir.

As such, Stannis could legitimize one of Robert’s bastard, probably Edric Storm. Since he has two high born parents, that like Shireen, are a Baratheon father and a Florent mother respectively.

However, that hinges on Edric Storm making it out of the series alive, because if he doesn’t, then the claim to Storm End’s is going to be a bloody free-for-all between all of Robert’s bastards, cousins and other relatives. And at this point the realm can’t survive too much more in-fighting.

The Tyrells are the only ones who have their shit together. For now.

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iaminfourthwing · 24 days

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The Generals Daughter

Chapter IV

Xaden had the same thoughts in Battle Brief because his question was kind of based on mine. The fact that we were thinking the same way gives me a boost of confidence. Not that I would rely on his opinion but since he is the wingleader (and that for a reason) it kinda makes me happy.

“You two are seriously something else. You knew everything in history and in Battle Brief you were badass, especially you Arya.” Rhiannon says with an exciting glint in her brown eyes.

Clad in our sparring clothes (a short sleeved black shirt with tight trousers) we’re currently standing next to the sparring mat where Aurelie and Ridoc are fighting each other. Today is just assessment, that means we figure out where everyone’s skills lay, or if some even have skills.

Sawyer found his way next to me, Violet and Rhiannon on my other side. I quietly observe the match but it`s obvious that both of them already had their fair share of training in the past.

Violet and Rhiannon talk about helping each other out, Vi with academics, Rhiannon with sparring. Sawyer joins the conversation. “I could give tips to survive combat training.” Right, he already has some experience.

A tooth goes flying. Ew. “Enough!” Professor Emetterio shouts.

“What about you, Arya?” Rhiannon asks curious, her eyes not leaving the match in front of us but it's Violet who answers her. “She is good in everything. No, not just good. Magnificent.” I scoff as Emetterio calls out the next match. “Hardly. I may have some training, but there are always fighters who are more dangerous than I am” I say to Violet. A certain cadet from First Wing for example.

A tall, bulky guy from our wing, but second year from another squad stands on the mat. Since we have an uneven number of cadets in the squads someone will have to step into that match with him.

A sickening crack echoes through the hall as Jack Barlowe snaps the neck of his squad mate. Sweet “-Malek” Violet whispers horrified. He seriously is crazy, more than that. I don’t even want to know what goes on in that head, but what I know is, that he is dangerous. We really have to watch out, especially if he’s after Violet.

Emetterio scolds him but Barlowe obviously doesn`t give a flying fuck about what the professor has to say.

Emetterio turns back around and his eyes find mine. Shit. “Melgren, your turn.”

“That will be good. Don`t hurt him too much, Arya” Violet says with a exiciting grin while the others wish me good luck.

I walk over and step onto the mat. “Must be my lucky day to be the first one here to have a chance beating you up, Melgren. Are we allowed to break bones beside the neck?”

Is he- is he dumb?! Even though it's just assessment and Emetterio wants to see what we can do, it is not forbidden to break some bones. We just shouldn`t overdo it, that`s what the challenges are for. Best example of what we shouldn’t do is Barlowes match, if you can even call it a match. Was pretty one sided if you ask me.

Emetterio must think the same because he scoffs and but looks unimpressed at him. He explained the rules of assessment two times before.

I decide to rile him up a bit. “Why? You want to make an appointment with Nolon beforehand for you? You know, just in case.” The right corner of my mouth lifts up. A murmur goes through the crowd and a few laughter can be heard.

Pissed, he turns my way and takes his position and god help me – that must be the worst starting stance I have ever seen. “Don’t worry. I`ll make it short” I tease him further.

That gives him the rest and he storms towards me like an angry bull. I dodge a few of his punches which he clearly doesn`t like and only makes him madder. He may be tall and muscular, but he lacks agility. His movements are uncoordinated, he moves with pure strength, not with logic.

Okay, enough of that. Time to show what I can do.

He takes a step forward; I dodge his fist and punch him square in the face onto his nose. A sickening crunch can be heard, and with the way his nose is deformed, it is definitely broken, but I don`t care. I smack my fist into his jaw, hard, and he falls over, unconscious. HUH?!

Well fuck, that was not the plan. Did I really punch that hard? I stand over his unconscious figure, eyes wide open, mouth dropped in disbelief.

My stunned face finds Emetterios with a similar expression and notice how most of the other cadets stopped what they were doing. Violet looks proud (she saw me sparring more than just once), Rhiannon, Sawyer and the rest of our squad are wide eyed, speechless. “What the fuck?” Someone shouts.

“Well … I think he yields.” I say with a confused smirk on my face.

Emetterio scoffs but I can see the proud glint in his eyes. “Damn Melgren, that was certainly a new record but next time, please let them stay awake.” he says.

I step down from the mat and walk over to my squad. Aetos is the first one to greet me. “That was really good, Arya. I have to give you that, you seem to be an excellent fighter.” A compliment, from Dain Aetos? My face must show the confusion and amusement because he just rolls his eyes but doesn`t say anything else.

Ridoc gives me a fist bump. “That was incredible” Sawyer says, still in awe. “The way you were assessing him and kept your focus on the way he moved. You studied him during the fight and never lost control,” he adds. It was something my father taught me personally when he had the time (which wasn`t often) to fight with me.

“And the way it only took you two punches to knock him unconscious” Rhiannon grins. “Yeah, that was certainly not the plan. But you just have to know where you have to punch” I explain. “I can teach you, if you want.” All four of them nod their head furiously at my offer. Laughing I turn around and find Emetterios gaze fixed on Violet, Imogen Cardulo, a pink haired second year with the relic adorning her arm, next to him. Uh oh.

“Sorrengail, your turn.” Shit.

#fourth wing #iron flame #fourth wing x reader #bodhi durran #xaden riorson #bodhi durran x oc #bodhi durran x reader #violet sorrengail #fourth wing by rebecca yarros #rebecca yarros #booktok

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laurellerual · 4 months

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Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I would rather Jon have Dark Sister than Arya because its his bio dad's family sword and because I think it's sexist to assume Arya will get Dark Sister just because she's a girl, especially when there have been male wielders like Bloodraven and Jon's male ancestors Balon and Daemon, plus Jon has a more Visenya-like personality than Arya does. Also, I think older Arya is gonna be more like Queen Nymeria, more of a leader and strategist than an actual warrior.

It would make sense for Jon to have Dark Sister, but… only in case he loses Longclaw. Valyrian steel swords are few and far between and are needed for the zombie apocalypse, and a person can only use one sword at a time. For this reason it makes perfect sense to expect that all the main characters capable of fighting will be armed in some way. And since Jon has already done this for Arya once, I don't see why he wouldn't do so a second time. Especially considering that Needle is useless against the dead and the others, and that already in affc it's described as "hardly more then a toy".

I also agree in seeing Arya more as a leader/strategist than an actual warrior, but even if she isn't deployed on the front line I can still see Jon deciding to arm her in an attempt to protect her, because the chances of failure are very high. (Imo the first real battle of the Long Night will be lost and with it Winterfell).

I've never heard anyone argue that Arya will have Dark Sister because she's a girl, that's a bogus argument. The Dark Sister/Arya association exist mainly because of the name. Secondly, Dark Sister is the only "important" sword to be described as more slender than usual, which is reminiscent of Needle.

But if there is a wielder of Dark Sister that I would associate with Jon, my first thought goes to Brynden Rivers but maybe is because of this amizing song!

#arya stark #jon snow #dark sister #asoiaf #brynden rivers #ask laurel

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the-king-andthe-lionheart · 10 months

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Book Gendrya Month 2023 - Day One - Trust

Arya has shown several times that she trusts Gendry, but I think one of the biggest examples comes when she divulges her plan of escaping Harrenhal to Gendry, even though he is angry with her at the time and could have very well told someone if he was a less loyal and trustworthy person.

At the forge she found the fires extinguished and the doors closed and barred. She crept in a window, as she had once before. Gendry shared a mattress with two other apprentice smiths. She crouched in the loft for a long time before her eyes adjusted enough for her to be sure that he was the one on the end. Then she put a hand over his mouth and pinched him. His eyes opened. He could not have been very deeply asleep. "Please," she whispered. She took her hand off his mouth and pointed.

For a moment she did not think he understood, but then he slid out from under the blankets. Naked, he padded across the room, shrugged into a loose roughspun tunic, and climbed down from the loft after her. The other sleepers did not stir. "What do you want now?" Gendry said in a low angry voice.

"A sword."

"Blackthumb keeps all the blades locked up, I told you that a hundred times. Is this for Lord Leech?"

"For me. Break the lock with your hammer."

"They'll break my hand," he grumbled. "Or worse."

"Not if you run off with me."

"Run, and they'll catch you and kill you."

"They'll do you worse. Lord Bolton is giving Harrenhal to the Bloody Mummers, he told me so."

Gendry pushed black hair out of his eyes. "So?"

She looked right at him, fearless. "So when Vargo Hoat's the lord, he's going to cut off the feet of all the servants to keep them from running away. The smiths too."

"That's only a story," he said scornfully.

"No, it's true, I heard Lord Vargo say so," she lied. "He's going to cut one foot off everyone. The left one. Go to the kitchens and wake Hot Pie, he'll do what you say. We'll need bread or oakcakes or something. You get the swords and I'll do the horses. We'll meet near the postern in the east wall, behind the Tower of Ghosts. No one ever comes there."

"I know that gate. It's guarded, same as the rest."

"So? You won't forget the swords?"

"I never said I'd come."

"No. But if you do, you won't forget the swords?"

He frowned. "No," he said at last. "I guess I won't." (Arya X ACOK)

Some may argue that Arya only risked telling Gendry, and by extension Hot Pie, because she needed them, that she needed Gendry’s swords and Hot Pie’s food, but this isn’t the case at all. Arya is the one to plan the entire escape. She is the one to dress accordingly for travel, as well as steal a map and a dagger from Roose Bolton. She is the one who manages to get the stableboy to saddle three horses for her to take, and she is the one who kills the guard when she realizes she isn't going to be able to trick the guard in order to escape. She didn’t technically need Gendry or Hot Pie. Arya already had the dagger, which is what she used on the guard, and she already knew how to scavenge for food and to hunt small animals.

Arya even acknowledges later that Gendry and Hot Pie were slowing her down, but because Arya cares about them, especially Gendry, she couldn’t just leave them behind in Harrenhal, no matter how much she insists Gendry and Hot Pie would have been safe in Harrenhal when she’s faced with the reality of what may happen to them all if they are caught, even though we know first hand Gendry and Hot Pie likely would have been killed with most of the people in Harrenhal, like we saw when Jaime came and took the castle once again.

She would make much better time on her own, Arya knew, but she could not leave them. They were her pack, her friends, the only living friends that remained to her, and if not for her they would still be safe at Harrenhal, Gendry sweating at his forge and Hot Pie in the kitchens. If the Mummers catch us, I'll tell them that I'm Ned Stark's daughter and sister to the King in the North. I'll command them to take me to my brother, and to do no harm to Hot Pie and Gendry. They might not believe her, though, and even if they did . . . Lord Bolton was her brother's bannerman, but he frightened her all the same. I won't let them take us, she vowed silently, reaching back over her shoulder to touch the hilt of the sword that Gendry had stolen for her. I won't. (Arya I ASOS)

And we see that Arya was willing to risk revealing her identity to the Northmen at Harrenhal, who she didn’t even trust, if they were caught, all in the attempt to spare Gendry and Hot Pie. And considering she didn’t trust them she couldn’t even be certain her revealing her identity would have kept her safe or her friends.

In the end, Arya may have exaggerated what the Bloody Mummers were going to do once they took control of the castle in order to get Gendry to leave with her, but Arya’s heart was in the right place. She knew nothing good would come from leaving Gendry and Hot Pie behind, however, she also couldn’t bear to go on by herself, as she needed her pack beside her on her journey forth to find her mother and brother, hoping that when they did, her pack would be able to stay by her side.

#arya stark #gendry waters #gendry #gendrya #asoiaf #bookgendryamonth2023

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turtle-paced · 10 months

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If the Tyrells were always so serious about making Margaery the Queen, even before AGoT, would it make sense for them to try to get rid of their biggest competition, Sansa, by offering to marry her to one of their sons? Maybe not for Willas because of the age gap, but Loras has just the perfect age. I think that it was obvious to everyone that Robert would try to take one of Ned’s girls as a bride to Joffrey, but if Sansa was already betrothed and therefore unavailable, i doubt that Arya, as a second daughter and very young, would be considered as much, so Margaery would be the next best choice. In this case, do you believe that Ned and Catelyn would consider the offer?

One of the big sticking points here is that Ned was not considering offers. It took the king's in-person offer of his own eldest son, and a stern talking-to from his wife, to get Ned to arrange a marriage for any of his children. So no, I do not think Ned is considering Tyrell matches. Especially not to third sons.

On a side note, I wouldn't discount the possibility that Arya might have been lined up to marry Joffrey so easily (in the bizarro world where Sansa was already betrothed). The age gap between her and Joffrey is actually pretty similar to the age gap between Joffrey and Margaery. Most people wouldn't have been thinking royal wedding now, or next year, or the year after - but on paper, had the plot of the series not been a thing, it's not an outrageous suggestion.

#asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #ned stark #sansa stark #arya stark #house tyrell #catastrophe averted and all it took was ice zombies invading

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goodqueenaly · 9 months

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Not me going down a rabbit hole yesterday thinking about what sort of timekeeping/calendar system Essos (or, maybe more specifically, western Essos) uses. I’ve always headcanoned that the (majority of the) Free Cities count years using a system like “ab urbe condita”, and that they borrowed this system from (or have simply used it since) the time of the Valyrian Freehold. With Rome a very clear major source of inspiration for Valyria, I could believe that some Valyrian scholar in the five thousand-odd year history of the Freehold calculated a date (accurate or not) as to when Valyria as a city (and/or as a political state) was founded, and that subsequently this year became the starting date for all Valyrian calendars. Consequently, I think the Free Cities (especially those specifically founded by the Freehold, like Tyrosh and Lys, and especially especially Volantis, which prides itself on being the first daughter of Valyria) would have naturally utilized this system for their own calendars - and when the Doom happened, these city-states may simply have continued measuring time by a well-accepted, (virtually) worldwide standard which, perhaps, had been in practice for so long.

Braavos is an interesting case, not only because it would have no ideological incentive to use the standard of the Freehold, but also because it canonically uses a different timekeeping system from that of Westeros: Arya in AFFC thinks that “it was hard to know for certain” if she had passed her birthday because “[t]he Braavosi counted days differently than they did in Westeros”. We do know that Braavos has a definite idea of its own foundational date (since “Uthero Zalyne …proclaim[ed] the existence and location of Braavos, and invite[d] men of all nations to celebrate the 111th festival of the city's founding” during what became known as the Unmasking or Uncloaking of Uthero) and annually celebrates the festival of the Uncloaking, so either of these dates might be the first year of the Braavosi calendar. (Bonus points if this comes up when, as I theorize, the Unmasking of Uthero celebration occurs in TWOW and we might get clarity on this point.) Too, when it comes to Braavos counting days, weeks, and months, I wonder whether Braavos invented a completely new calendar specifically to distance itself from the legacy of Valyria. Perhaps the inspiration here might be something like the French revolutionary calendar, where - in an effort to scrub the new republic of any Catholic and royalist vestiges - republican leaders literally reworked time itself, creating a new 10-day week, renaming the months, and shifting New Year’s Day to the middle of summer

#asoiaf meta #worldbuilding #timekeeping #valyria #braavos

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daenystheedreamer · 1 year

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Do u want to talk about cannibalism in asoiaf

i luuurve the way cannibalism is portrayed in asoiaf. it makes me a bit crazy.... the way stannis, a man shown to be the epitome of justice and law, kept men imprisoned just in case they ran out of food. wartime murder, rape, civilian casualties, etc are portrayed as bad but almost necessary/unstoppable symptoms of war, yet cannibalism is this one taboo they still keep.

it is DEEPLY linked to the old gods, it's this primal, ancient horror, next to/linked to guest right and kinslaying. bran eating jojenpaste/coldhands' shady game, the warg starks (inc. robb!) all probably eating people while skinchanging, arya maybe eating human at THOBAW.

i like the way its often class based. king's landing's poor are fed and fuelled by literally eating each other THAT is the true naked face of feudalism. while the red keep has a constant revolving door of huge feasts, arya is eating the brown of flea bottom.

i love the ouroboros of it all, the endless cycle. a lot of it is also linked to the riverlands! frey pies, nymeria, robb and greywind, vargo hoat, the historical mention of danelle lothston.

checking the AWOIAF page for cannibalism (which yes, exists), the amethyst empress myth is linked with it. i'm not much of a GEOTD theoriser but hmm much to consider, especially it's links to azor ahai and nissa nissa.

in summary i think its a great narrative device and metaphor. i think grrm uses it very well! i hope we get 6/6 on starklings eating people (skagosi are rumoured to eat people come on rickon just one finger eat one finger bro come on everyone else is doing it...)

#THREE acronyms on this post. i wonder what the average is...#asoiaf #ask #anonymous #anon thank you for letting me talk my shit. love u. youre my everything. kissing you on the temples.<3

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catofoldstones · 6 months

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Its funny to me that the common thought I see repeated is that ‘sansa was disinherited!!! She cant ever get winterfell, plus the northern lords would never trust her bc she was married to a lannister!!’ As if George would just cosign that in his writing like yep sorry girls arent equipped to rule🤷🏻‍♀️ he continuously criticizes sexist ideologies thru out asoiaf

Sansa wasn’t disinherited, she was overridden in favour of Jon. And so were all of her living siblings btw, which will be all of them once they are found/come back home.

Plus, the content of Robb’s will is pure speculation. We genuinely don’t know what there is in Robb’s will. Maybe he has declared the eldest living son of Eddard Stark as the heir to winterfell and after all is said and done, that would be Bran Stark. Maybe Robb said that it will go to Jon Snow and Jon Snow only. Even then Sansa and her siblings will have a right to Winterfell by way of social custom, especially after the R+ L = J reveal. What if Jeyne Westerling is pregnant? Then what? The will goes to whack, stark siblings get pushed down in the line of succession and we finally put an end to this already tired and beaten debate. My boy Jon did not stand there and say Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa for shits and giggles, social customs and inheritance rights are important. Moreover, if Westerosi history shows us anything it’s that Sansa’s kids will still have a claim to winterfell even if she is expelled from the will.

On top of all of this, her marriage to Tyrion isn’t even going to last courtesy Mr. Lancel Lannister of the faith whose life she saved in a brave act of kindness. And that’s where it becomes funny to me too because what leg do they have to stand on now.

Though I doubt the fandom is saying girls can’t rule, they’re saying Sansa can’t rule. They can’t say girls can’t rule because then that punishes their faves Arya and Dany too. But all of that too is rooted in misogyny because to favour one type of woman win over another is deeply problematic (okays favouritism at best and excuses racism at worst). But yes, you’re right because George seems to be calling out this type of misogyny too. We have women leading Houses (the Mormonts), we have women leading (or having a very strong claim nonetheless and fighting for it) kingdoms (Asha and Arianne). Stannis asks for Shireen to be on the Iron Throne in case he dies fighting for it, so clearly women can be heirs and hold leadership positions in their own right.

In the end, yes the Westerosi culture can allow women leadership positions (though not easily and in very limited circumstances) and Sansa Stark is absolutely still an heir to Winterfell.

#I’m sorry if it looks cluttered and haphazard it’s because I typed all of this in 5 minutes after a round of good coffee #so I am vibrating at the speed of light and my emotions are clearly heightened #in any case #sansa stark #anti sansa antis #anti asoiaf fandom #couldn’t be bothered with the citations and the evidence and the footnotes because we’re beating a dead horse at this point #cannot keep having the same argument again and again #anon ask #edit: added some lines and corrected some grammar #anon asks t

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jozor-johai · 5 months

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Revisiting the Rat Cook, part 3: "Just Eat"

The third part of my ongoing series in which I examine how the themes and symbols present in the "Rat Cook" story, as relayed in ASOS Bran IV, and how those elements reappear throughout ASOAIF.

Part one is here and part two is here, but hopefully these also stand alone as well.

To anyone who is reading this part first, "Revisiting the Rat Cook" is a series that is built on the understanding that GRRM's use of metadiegetic legends provide a "road map" of symbols and meaning, used in their abstract form, which we, as readers, can use to better understand the relationships between symbols, motifs, and themes as they reoccur throughout ASOAIF as a whole. The Rat Cook story is about a rat which eats rats, or a cook who serves kings; The Rat Cook story is about fathers and sons, about cannibalism, about trust, about vengeance, and about damning one's legacy.

"Just Eat"

Last post, I talked about various moments where the flesh of men and the flesh of pigs were compared: times where dead pigs evoked dead sons, where dead sons evoked dead pigs, and where human victims would "become" pork in death. Finally, at the end, I talked about what some part of that transformation said about guest right in particular, a key part of the "Rat Cook" story. I pointed out how guest right is a social construct, necessary to maintain peace in a community, where those feeding and those being fed can both trust that they will come to no harm.

In this part of the series, I'm going to reach a similar conclusion about guest right, approached from a different angle. This part is about the relationship between "hosts" and "guests", and what it means when a character is being forced into the role of the "Andal King" from the Rat Cook story, who was unwittingly fed his own son. What does it mean, in ASOIAF, when a character cannot trust the provenance of their food, especially in the most extreme case: being fed human flesh.

Recognizing the dynamics between the Rat Cook and the Andal King, the inherent trust between those who feed and those who are fed, the host and the guest, and the power dynamics between a liege and a lowly cook, we see that the fear of the unwilling cannibal in the Rat Cook story is also a fear of the betrayal of those dynamics.

The fear of being turned cannibal unwillingly is referenced in AFFC Arya II, when Arya is being hosted—and fed—-by the House of Black and White, and when, after preparing dead bodies, she suddenly considers the similarity between eating human flesh and eating pork:

Once, as she was eating her supper, a terrible suspicion seized hold of her, and she put down her knife and stared suspiciously at a slice of pale white meat. The kindly man saw the horror on her face. "It is pork, child," he told her, "only pork”

This interaction is mirrored with another reassurance that meat is only pork, when Coldhands offers Bran and his party a “sow” in ADWD Bran I. Bran does not make the connection with cannibalism explicit, nor does anyone else present, but the reality of the meat’s provenance is far more clearly suspect:

Meera Reed was turning a chunk of raw red flesh above the flames, letting it char and spit. "Just in time," she said. Bran rubbed his eyes with the heel of his hand and wriggled backwards against the wall to sit. "You almost slept through supper. The ranger found a sow."

This scene is particularly haunting, perhaps because this is a rare instance of actual cannibalism, rather than imagined cannibalism. Martin creates this moment's unsettling atmosphere by highlighting each of party in turn, using gruesome language to describe them eating:

Behind her, Hodor was tearing eagerly at a chunk of hot charred flesh as blood and grease ran down into his beard. Wisps of smoke rose from between his fingers. "Hodor," he muttered between bites, "hodor, hodor." His sword lay on the earthen floor beside him. Jojen Reed nipped at his own joint with small bites, chewing each chunk of meat a dozen times before swallowing. The ranger killed a pig.

In this instance, the meat is notably never directly called pork—it is “chunks of meat”, it is “hot charred flesh” still running with “blood”, which evokes Victarion’s hot pork-crackling arm as well.

Bran’s internal affirmation that “the ranger killed a pig” is given its own sentence and its own paragraph—it’s a connected idea, but it’s not what’s happening. Still, a man—once butchered—may become a “sow” in the same way that the Rat Cook, too, became as “big as a sow”, just as we saw with the butchered butcher’s boy, Micah.

Bran, for his part, nearly puts the ideas together. Without eating, he drills Coldhands as to what happened to the men chasing them, whose disappearance comes simultaneous to the appearance of the “sow”.

"What happened to the men? The foes behind us?" "They will not trouble you." "Who were they? Wildlings?" Meera turned the meat to cook the other side. Hodor was chewing and swallowing, muttering happily under his breath. Only Jojen seemed aware of what was happening as Coldhands turned his head to stare at Bran. "They were foes." Men of the Night's Watch. "You killed them. You and the ravens. Their faces were all torn, and their eyes were gone." Coldhands did not deny it. "They were your brothers. I saw. The wolves had ripped their clothes up, but I could still tell. Their cloaks were black. Like your hands."

In the midst of the questions about the men, our attention is again drawn each of the party eating in turn, further strengthening the connection between a slain man and a slain sow. These were men of the Night’s Watch, as was Coldhands, we presume, so they are Coldhands’ “brothers”, and so again this is the slaying and serving of family. And again, for the rest of the party, already eating when Bran wakes, it is unwilling, unknowing cannibalism. Coldhands, like the Rat Cook, has offered a meal and called it pork; mimicking the Andal king, the recipients don’t question its origin—for, at this point, they trust the "host" they are with—and instead, they find it delicious, just as Sam feared he would while Bannen burned. After all, turning cannibal is one thing, but as shown in the passage from the last post with Sam and Bannen, it is a sickening thought to come up with on one’s own. To be an unknowing cannibal, though, is always possible, but only so long as there is a stark betrayal of trust.

This scene with Coldhands, especially if we suspect that Coldhands is feeding Bran's friends the flesh of men, is a harsh reminder of that same essential idea from the Rat Cook story: that the sharing of food is always an exchange of trust in its very nature. As I've said before, the notion of “guest right” reflects that—you must trust the person feeding you to eat the food they serve you, and you’ll only feed those whom you trust and want to welcome. The Rat Cook story, of course, is the pinnacle of betraying that trust, and the cook himself is punished for exactly that; the Andal King, for his part, believed he could accept what he was served, which is how the Rat Cook was able to enact his vengeance.

We are also reminded of this relationship between shared food and trust when Quentyn is in Meereen, talking to the Tattered Prince. This exchange notably uses pie as a metaphor, too, doubly prompting the reader to recall the Rat Cook story here.

In ADWD The Dragontamer, Quentyn is faced with a life-or-death moment of trust over the Brazen Beasts’ code word. Quentyn doubts the veratity of this information, wondering whether the Tattered Prince really knows the code words... and he receives this in response:

“But a prince should know better than to pose such questions, Dornish. In Pentos, we have a saying. Never ask the baker what went into the pie. Just eat.”

As Quentyn points out himself:

“There was wisdom in that.”

In this moment, we may be given an insight into the mind of the “Andal king” (even if Quentyn is only a Rhoynar Prince). If this is the Pentoshi version of “don’t look a gift horse in the mouth”, then its phrasing is curiously resonant with the Rat Cook story, with pies of unknown provenance. Quentyn is reminded here of the importance of the unspoken rules of trust between allies; the trust is mutual, and he must trust the Tattered Prince if he is to be trusted himself. Similarly, just as the Rat Cook should have been bound by the laws of hospitality, the Andal King was bound by those same laws of trust, and didn’t question what was happening. Did the Andal King ever learn the fate of his son? We don’t hear that side in the version that Old Nan tells Bran.

As for Quentyn, it’s worth noting that this trust turned out to be ill-fated.

Seemingly, the code word did not help, and perhaps Quentyn’s skepticism was worthwhile. Of course, even that isn't the full story—it’s possible that the Tattered Prince was being true, and the plan was only ruined by the machinations of the Shavepate and some rat-masked Brazen Beasts. (I may return to this idea in a later part, but only if I feel confident enough to tackle Dany and Meereen, which really is quite a knot.)

If this scene with the Tattered Prince provides an in-world reminder of how the exchange of food provides a metaphor for the dynamics of a given scene, then when the stakes are possible cannibalism, then the stakes of that metaphorical comparison are heightened as well. Unwilling cannibalism is, in a way, the pinnacle example of betraying that host-guest trust.

It makes us reconsider our scene with Arya:

Arya questioning the origin of the meat in the House of Black and White is just as equally a valid question to ask about her entire wellbeing in that setting—she has no true reason to trust that the House of Black and White wants the best for her, nor that she is safe in their care. This concern is a concept allegorically played out in the serving of the food. Metaphorically, she has doubts as to whether she can trust what the Faceless Men are “feeding” her—are they feeding her lies, or the truth? Are they feeding her pork, or dead men?

The Kindly Man is reassuring, as he always is, but all he can offer is reassurance—like Arya questioning the food she is being served, this moment suggests that she ought to be questioning the hospitality she is receiving in the House of Black and White in its entirety.

Returning to the scene with Bran and Coldhands, we can apply the same thinking, and that context illuminates the direction the conversation takes. First, it is about the meat that Coldhands has served them. Then, it is about the men who Coldhands has killed, whether they were allies or foes, and whether they were brothers. This pairing of ideas links serving the suspicious meat of the alleged “sow” with the question of whether to trust Coldhands; Bran considers the Night’s Watch his allies, and is rightfully suspicious of those who would kill Night’s Watchmen, not knowing that these particular Night’s Watchmen were foes. Finally, though, the conversation turns to Coldhands himself, continuing where we left off in ADWD Bran I:

“Coldhands said nothing. ‘Who are you? Why are your hands black?’”

This, immediately after the prior discussions, continues to link these major ideas of the Rat Cook story—the slaying of family, the unwilling cannibalism, and the trust that is necessary to end up in such a terrible fate. Bran’s party is blindly trusting Coldhands to take them somewhere, as they trust him to feed them pork, not human flesh; as they continue to follow him north, Bran’s party metaphorically does not know what they are being “fed”, in a sense—is it the destination they believe, or is it something else? Further confirming this thought process, linking the unknown meat with the unknown journey, the questions continue to the logical conclusion:

"Show us your face." The ranger made no move to obey. "He's dead." Bran could taste the bile in his throat. “Meera, he's some dead thing. The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night's Watch stay true, that's what Old Nan used to say. He came to meet us at the Wall, but he could not pass. He sent Sam instead, with that wildling girl." Meera's gloved hand tightened around the shaft of her frog spear. "Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?"

Bran is faced with the same fears that strike Arya in the House of Black and White:

If they cannot trust what they are being fed, can they trust where they are being led?

The notion of finding a sow in the tundra may be as likely as finding a benevolent wizard in the wastes of the far north, but that is what Bran still believes even at this moment.

Coldhands feeding them human meat under false pretenses, and his refusal to be honest or direct about the source of the meat, therefore marks a betrayal of that trust—and possibly portends a betrayal of the other trust as well. The question of their journey’s end, and whether they are being told the full story about their destination, naturally follows the question of whether they are being fed false “pork”.

Did the Andal King have similar misgivings that he similarly ignored, believing instead in the social covenant of guest right that he had entered into? If the Andal king had denied the pork pie, would he have been in the right for his skepticism, or in the wrong, as the Tattered Prince says, for “asking the baker what went into the pie”? Is it, as Quentyn says, wiser to trust? The Rat Cook story that Bran recalls moves on from this question without answering it. We never learn if the Andal King ever learned the truth. "The Rat Cook" instead goes on to focus on the aftermath of the incident, and the fate of the cook, whose punishment, again, was not for forcing cannibalism but for betraying the trust of guest right.

In the next few parts, I'm going to stray away from eating men for a while and focus on eating rats—what I think rats symbolize in ASOIAF, espcially when paired with the action of eating. After all, it's in the story's title: the "Rat Cook", and "rats" are as key a symbol as cannibalism, pork, and pies. Later, though, I'll be returning to this issue of trusting in a social contract, like guest right, so it's good to keep this idea in mind, as well as the power dynamics inherent in eating and being fed, when considering what it means to eat rats, too.

#a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #rat cook #asoiaf analysis #asoiaf meta #arya stark #bran stark #coldhands #quentyn martell #RtRC

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fromtheseventhhell · 7 months

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Sometimes I wonder if it even makes sense for Arya's first stop back in Westeros to be in the Riverlands. I feel the same way as Arya's response to the Kindly Man when he offers to get her on a ship leaving for Duskendale and Gulltown. She just got there from the Riverlands, what point is there to go straight back? Especially with the way it seems to become a meandering hell for every POV there lol. What developments in TWOW would motivate her to go there? I can really only think of wanting to reunite with Nymeria, or if the faceless men are touchy about cheating death and put a mark on either Lady Stoneheart or Jon that she either has to fulfill or prevent.

It's just when I see actual Arya fans speculate on her TWOW arc it's about running into Jeyne and finding out what's been going on in the North through her name, finding out about Jon's death or resurrection, something to do with the Hardhome wildlings, Bran watching Nymeria through the trees and maybe contacting her the same way he did with Jon, discovering what's going on with the Sealord and maybe getting in his favor, anything involving the keyholders and the Iron Bank, potentially discovering secrets about the red door or even the Sailor's Wife being Tysha, a climax involving the Uncloaking of Uthero... almost everything I can think of would point her back north, to claim herself as the true Arya Stark or getting revenge for Jon's death. Or wanting to reunite if she hears of his resurrection before leaving Braavos.

The only benefit I can think of for landing in the Riverlands first thing is going up through the Neck and meeting Howland Reed. He could give her Robb's will and laugh if she tells him she found out Jon's mother is Wylla through Ned Dayne lol. I want her to meet Lady Stoneheart as much as anyone, but I would prefer Lady Stoneheart stick around long enough to reunite with both Arya and Jon. I don't want the gift of mercy to be given to her before that happens.

See, the tricky part about speculating on Arya's TWOW arc is that she has so many plot connections that it's difficult to imagine that she'll be able to fulfill them all. Arya going to the Riverlands first and ending her story in Winterfell/The North is a way of hitting as many of those connections as possible. I don't think that Arya going to the Riverlands is confined to her antis because a lot of Arya stans make the same speculation, but I do think too many people discount the possibility of her going North. She has several plot connections there in her proxy marriage, Jon dying for her, her connection to Bran (seemingly highlighted in ADWD and hinted at in TWOW), her personal connection to Roose, the likelihood of her encountering Jeyne, her connection to the magical plot, etc. It's also, like you mentioned, unlikely that she intentionally sets out to travel to the Riverlands. George could continue her "never seemed to find the places she set out to reach" and she could get knocked off course, but even then there are other places she could end up. There's a good case for her traveling to both places, or even somewhere new, but there's just too much in the air to say definitively.

#ask #anon #arya stark #personally I think there's a good chance she goes North but a better one that she goes to the riverlands #because I doubt she'll set out to make it to the riverlands again unless she somehow? hears about Lady Stoneheart #In TWOW she'll learn Bran + Rickon are alive that Jon has died and of /her/ marriage to Ramsey which are all connected to the Northern plot #and I think that would do more to push her plot forward just as well as going to the riverlands #I do think th elong night will filter into the riverlands though and that makes me think that she'll be going there first #or she could find herself somewhere inbetween #my best guess is that she sets out for the North gets knocked off course and finds herself closer to the riverlands #there's just a lot to speculate and we won't KNOW until we get TWOW so it's hard to say #either way she's gonna have a whole arc in Braavos and I'm so excited to see it after the slop D&D gave us #speculating for Arya is so hard and fun cause there are so many ways that it could go #either way I need a reunion between Arya and Nymeria at some point

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