#drowley for ts

[remythologise]

really funny to be absolutely neutral towards a longstanding ship in a fandom you've been in for ages and then over the course of a few months and a few dozen fics become a hardened This Is The Superior Interpretation of Canon convert

#me remembering something that happened in canon and nodding saying he was in love with him there #kira for ts #I should clarify this is not about supernatural. but how funny would it be if I was talking about drowley #in fairness. he (crowley) literally was in love with him (dean) there #don't ask me what ship / fandom because I will ignore you or lie #not because it's problematic just because it's [spins wheel] homestuck (lie)

[archived8253]

SPN Hiatus Creations | Week Six ↳Crowley

#spnhiatuscreations #supernaturalartistsnet #crowley #spnfanart #ackleholics #vinnie-cha #JUMPS IN AT THE LAST SECOND #fuck i was so busy this week #my doodles #drowley for ts #does anyone even blacklist it

[thetruthpdf]

crowley ✗ camera roll - kacey musgraves

#seeing her perform this song on snl just like crowley supernatural #drowley #deancrowley #crowley #dean winchester #spn #zozieposy for ts #web weaving #spnclownpals #spn parallels #parallels!!!

[brsb4hls]

Just imagine someone who is used to actual queer rep in media starting to watch SPN because Tumblr told them it has a bi male lead with 3 male love interests.

They expect queer as folk and get busty Asian beauties and Dean jerking it to anime...

Guys, just enjoy your ships and stop claiming they went canon every hot minute just because you're bored...

#supernatural #wank for ts #anti denny #anti destiel #anti drowley #queer representation #dean winchester #bi Dean discourse

[orionsangel86]

Part 2 - Episode Review of 12x15

Part 1 for 12x14 review

Of the past three episodes this one was my favourite, but of course it was, it had Cas in it - however small his part was. I think it was the best structured for the story as well though and for where it left us in terms of speculation and meta. Basically I have a lot to say.

Davy Perez returns for 12x15 and I think he had a lot of fun with this one. Lucille makes an appearance and I am sure that fans of the Walking Dead recoiled in horror watching Dean Winchester carry that horrid bat, I also enjoyed poor suffering Castiel dealing with the crazy “lizard people” man and the Queen making an appearance (much to Misha’s delight I’m sure).

Other smaller moments I liked – the overlapping conversations both Dean and Sam had to Cas and Mary respectively that led to a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it moment where it was easy to mishear Dean saying “I love you too” to Castiel. In a Perez episode. When his last episode was 12x12. Which was the episode where Cas confessed his undying love? Yeah that ain’t a coincidence guys.

Also Gwen was a totally awesome character of the week who was twice able to fight off a hellhound that she couldn’t see. Please keep giving us these awesome female characters show. We are starved and scramble for this kind of stuff.

Final small point - Winchesters in glasses *drools*.

For the longer meta points however I’ll start with something that grinded my gears on first watch...

Dean Winchester – No longer a Germaphobe?

Yeah this bothered me.. When did DEAN “bathing in purell tonight” Winchester not care about showering after getting covered in monster goop? There is only ONE OTHER time in the whole series that that was the case… Purgatory. Perez sure loves his call backs to previous seasons. I didn’t pick up on it at first and basically huffed a “that’s out of character” at the screen. But I have since thought about this and re-watched the episode a couple of times and well, its clearly a purgatory callback now. I had to kick myself for getting grumpy at first.

So why are we calling back to Purgatory Dean? Where it “felt pure” and his mission was to “find the angel” at all costs? I know Davy Perez is new, but I can’t imagine him getting the characterisation so wrong here, especially after what he has given us so far. Dean is in purgatory mode. He is going from hunt to hunt unknowingly from the BMOL’s leads and thriving in the kill. Could this be because after twice being told “you’re a killer Dean Winchester” he’s decided to accept it? The last time he truly embraced that killer side of him was in purgatory after all (the mark of cain does not count since he fought against it with every fibre of his being). I think the nod to Lucille also kinda comes into this here. Dean with a distinctive weapon, being the thing that the monsters fear most, it’s some very strong imagery. We are being lead to believe that Dean truly IS the “killer”, the “American Ketch” if you like. So of course I fully expect him to defy the BMOL expectations and fight against that eventually. Dean is on a journey of self-acceptance after all. When he realises he is SO MUCH MORE than just a “killer” (no matter how pure he felt in purgatory) his journey will be complete.

Sam and Lying

I have already covered this briefly in part 1, but Dean is our token excellent liar in this show and yet right now he really is on an honesty kick. Sam however, is not. “Oh so we lie?”  “Yeah. A lot” The interesting thing about Sam’s lying is that when he does lie, he generally thinks it is for the best. This is the case with their lies to Gwen and it is also the case with his lies to Dean about the BMOL. He thinks it will give his brother “peace” to just keep it to himself for the time being. Then he has this conversation with Gwen where she says:

“If I’d just told him, why couldn’t I just tell him the truth”

“but I didn’t, I lied, I lied to make things easier”

This show does love its character parallels after all. This one was pretty obvious. Marcus is Dean getting ripped to shreds by the hellhound, Gwen is Sam lying to make things easier.

Now aside from the uncomfortable wincest implications of such a mirror this is a good point. Because as I said about 12x14, Sam chooses the objective path rather than the emotional path pretty much all the time, because it is easier for him. He may be emotionally intelligent in how he deals with difficult situations generally, but when it comes to his brother and potentially difficult differences of opinion, he would rather keep things quiet.

(I will talk more about Gwen and Marcus as mirrors a bit later)

It is pretty clear to the audience that this conversation with Gwen is what makes Sam decide to tell Dean the truth about working with the Brits. It is evident of how far the boys have come that we are no longer seeing such a  toxic relationship of lying and sacrifice etc etc so much anymore (since it was getting super old). Though he still hasn’t told Dean all the details, and whilst Dean warns that “the minute something feels off we bail” I can’t see Sam actually bailing now. For some reason I reckon Sam has picked his side and is determined to set things right. I expect to see his relationship with Mick develop into almost trust by season end and I ALSO expect that another wedge will be formed between Dean and Sam because of this.

Crowley – rubbing off on everyone

I’m sorry I couldn’t help but make a joke about that line. Which I will never get out of my head! Crowley was really the star of this episode (mainly because Cas only had a small part and even my extremely biased self couldn’t give this one to him and that hot angel dude who was manipulating him). Nope Crowley wins it. He was brilliant. Crowley is still desperately trying to pull his “I don’t care about the Winchesters” act. I’m glad to see that EVERYONE sees through this at this stage.

I was talking to @purplesummer91 after watching this episode (we watched it together with pizza) about how I was so infuriated with Bucklemming for writing Crowley so fucking dumb in 12x13. For choosing to put Lucifer into a purpose built vessel and chain him up in a way that was clearly not going to go well for Crowley. We were both super pissed off about it. Even all the painfully cringe worthy exposition couldn’t save Crowleys character in 12x13. Bucklemming probably had some stupid plan for Lucifer to get out and rape a few more people before finally doing something really stupid and out of character for Lucifer and move to LA to solve crimes… pfft…

Davy Perez however, is now the hero who has saved the script, and Crowley, from their slimy incompetent hands. What he managed to do in this episode was actually have Crowley’s plan make sense again. His “ten steps ahead” speech was really clever of Perez. Giving Crowley the upper hand and putting him right back where his character belongs – as the smartest character in the whole fucking show. Now, I get bored of generic suit wearing demons and angels as much as the next person, and the weakest part of this episode was those two idiots trying to barter with Lucifer and set him free (everyone in hell should really know by now that you stick with Crowley if you actually wanna live at least a little while longer) and whilst I am really bored of Lucifer (and don’t like the season 12 rendition of him at all) I enjoyed watching Crowley beat him down again. It felt like some spiteful revenge on Bucklemming and their idiocy – your next job Davy is to bring Charlie back and have her joke about how terribly stupid her supposed “death” was and how only an idiot would really believe her quick thinking glamour magic from Oz to put the Stines off her trail (if you haven’t noticed already, I’m still super bitter).

Let’s talk about Drowley for a moment though. Because as @purplesummer91 and I discussed after watching, we still can’t believe this is still a thing. I mean, okay, sure. They had their fun together in early season 10, but the fact that the writers continuously bring this back and shove it rather graphically in all of our faces is something else. Never let a hater tell you that Bi!Dean is all in your head, or that you only want it for your ship… because NO ONE ASKED FOR FUCKING DROWLEY. The show chose that. They chose to shove that down our throats and practically make it canon. The fact that it is so fucking obvious in canon is still unbelievable every time we get another Drowley joke.

“Maybe you rubbed off on me, maybe I rubbed off all over you”. Thanks Crowley for that mental image. Where is Sam so I can borrow his brain bleach?

If you are doubting the impact of this line from a shipping perspective, ask yourselves this:  would that line have had as much impact if he had said it to Sam?

Yes, Crowley talks in innuendos, and loves to be overly sexual with the boys, BUT since season 10 and Crowley and Dean’s “summer of love” his sexual jokes have been almost exclusively to Dean. Because Crowley, being the intelligent guy he is, knows that they would have far greater effect on Dean – Since they are fucking true and there is nothing Dean can do about that. Crowley has been Dean’s subtextual ex-boyfriend for two and a half seasons now. This is not something we as fangirls wanted or needed, but the show went there. I’m never getting over that. Ever.

The other important Crowley point to talk about is how he was actually validated this episode for the good he has done. Dean’s sincere thank you for saving Cas, even though Crowley tries to brush it off as wanting to spare himself from the man pain, it is obvious at this stage that he cares for Cas (we talked about this in 12x12 anyway so I won’t go into detail). Sam’s thank you was even more heartfelt, and genuine and sincere, and Crowley didn’t even come back with a snarky remark that time, nor did he brush off Gwen’s hug which was extremely heartwarming. Oh Crowley, you big softy. We all know you still just want to be loved.

Castiel – Angel of Earth – Hunter of Lizard People?

Why is it every time Cas graces our screens I grin like an idiot in love. I was a bit sad that Cas’s role in this episode was so small baring in mind we don’t get him for another three episodes (which I’m slightly pissy about FYI) and we didn’t get him for the last two either. But, Perez seems to be becoming the next Robbie Thompson for giving us a lot of info and meta content in a short space of time.

Cas was so freaking adorable in this episode. Who would have thought that it was canon that Cas is a Beyoncé fan to start with – enough that he knows the name of her sister and used it as his alias. Honestly I can see Dean rolling his eyes but still gazing at him with heaps of affection. The upside down FBI badge really has become a running joke. Cas just isn’t quite there yet in his hunter skills. (all this means for me is that I hope by the end of the series we will get an episode where Cas swoops in like a skilled hunter, flashes his badge in sync with Dean and is perfectly able to interview a witness without any issues whatsoever – AND give them a classic flirtatious wink at the end.)

His utter exasperation over the conspiracy theorists lizard people story was hilarious. As was Cas banging his head against the door. Cas was so done with this guy. But at least he got his Kelly Kline lead.

I think it is important to point out that at this stage, Cas is so disillusioned with his siblings that the moment he sees one he pulls out his blade to defend himself. It breaks my heart but the Dean Winchester in me wants to scream out “Damn right you defend yourself sweetheart. You stab that dick with wings!” As hot as Kelvin is I just don’t trust him one bit. Nor do I buy what he is selling here. What I LOVE is that we are getting MORE unanswered questions to Cas too add to the heap we already have.

“You ever miss it? Upstairs?”

“I love Earth, smells like hay, but it’s not home is it?”

“imagine it Castiel, for you to come and go as you please, be part of your family, your true family again”

Castiel doesn’t answer ANY of these questions, he diverts them. And this is so so interesting to see happening in a script written by the same writer who gave us “Knowing you has been the best part of my life, you’re my family, I love you, I love all of you”. We KNOW as an audience that Cas has chosen who his family, his home is, and it’s not heaven. But the fact that the angels don’t know this, that they STILL think they can manipulate Castiel with talk of acceptance and power… I can’t wait for him to turn to them and basically say “fuck you guys. I am going back to my boyfriend because HE LOVES ME.” And honestly this is where all the coming out/non accepting family of a queer kid metaphors come into play and I LOVE THEM.

In fact the ONLY part of Kelvins whole little speech there that perked Castiel’s interest was mentioning Joshua and this:

”the gardeners got a plan, all we ask is that you hear him out for the greater good.” And at that moment we know Cas is done for, because his second biggest weakness (next to a certain Mr Humanity) is doing the right thing – doing it for the “greater good”.

Cas isn’t going back to heaven for acceptance, to get his ‘home’ back, or for power. He is going back because Joshua has a plan that may help ‘the greater good’ and that is a pitch that Cas can’t say no to. His face when Kelvin asked him if he was ready at the end, again, no answer. He didn’t look ready at all, and I HATE seeing Cas in pain. Especially since apparently we ain’t gonna see him again until 12x19 which I am super pissed off about. Urgh.

But I just need to mention that final moment, Dean Winchester looks down at his phone after Cas hung up and says “he sound weird to you?” we don’t get an answer from Sam but I would bet money on that answer being “no?” because only Dean has that connection to Cas that means he can tell if something is wrong over a fucking PHONE CALL. They are such husbands OMG. Dean is gonna be so upset when he finds out Cas has gone back to heaven. This is gonna hurt to watch.

Gwen and Marcus – Parallels?

The last point I wanted to talk about was how Gwen and Marcus appear to be a mirror for Sam and Dean’s relationship in the show. This was obvious when Gwen spoke to Sam in the car and Sam clearly took her experience and advice and was inspired to tell Dean the truth. The show does this A LOT with various MOTW characters being some way mirrored with the boys in order for the boys to learn a lesson of some kind. There are often multiple parallels in place however and the other parallel here was Dean and Cas. Yes, there are both Wincest and Destiel readings in this doomed couple. Am I happy about this? Not really, but the interpretation is there.

Now, obviously the wincest parallel is easily disregarded as a legitimate romantic thing because the show is NEVER gonna go there. Don’t stress people. That’s not what I’m saying. If it was I’d quit watching in a heartbeat. *shudder*. The meaning of the mirror here is that our Sam character Gwen, kept lying to the Dean character Marcus, which ultimately lead to Marcus’s death. Gwen blames herself for his death because she lied about her feelings for him.

There are multiple layers to this reading. Marcus was clearly in love with Gwen, he wanted her by his side and dreaded her leaving him to go to college. (this all plays nicely with the Winchesters history and Sam leaving Dean to go to Stanford). The main point of takeaway here is that Gwen didn’t feel the same way about Marcus that he did about her. Gwen wanted something more in her life, she wanted to pursue a future that she didn’t feel she could have with Marcus by her side. Is this foreshadowing of the Winchesters going their separate ways? Dean always has been the clingier of the two, and I have been saying throughout this entire post that Dean is emotional whereas Sam is logical. The situation matches Gwen and Marcus. Marcus was holding on to a dream ruled by his feelings, whereas Gwen was far more logical and rational about their situation. Is Sam going to break away from Dean? If he doesn’t break away? Could this lead to Dean’s doom?

Ultimately I don’t think this season is gonna end well for Dean – call it a hunch, but with the way Ketch was eyeing him up and the differences between them I dunno, I can just see a clash in the future that I think will involve Cas somehow… but that is pure speculation. I also think that this could foreshadow Sam choosing to go to the UK to learn with the BMOL…

The other parallel is similar. In this episode Cas struggles with choosing to leaving earth and going back to heaven. Leaving Dean. The difference is that unlike Gwen, we KNOW that Cas loves Dean. His feelings have been laid out in the text. But poor self-hating Dean doesn’t know that. Will Cas keep the fact that he went back to heaven/is working with heaven again from Dean? How will that affect their relationship? We know that Dean loves Cas, but we have yet to have the moment where he admits to Cas that he loves him too (which I will put money on happening by season end). Dean could EASILY view Cas’s heartfelt confession as platonic familial love and therefore feel rejected, especially if Cas now leaves him for heaven once again. Dean’s main issue throughout pretty much ALL OF THE SERIES prior to Cas’s break up with heaven in season 11 was that Cas kept leaving him. Ironic since they are now paralleled by a couple where the Cas mirror NOT leaving him and telling him the truth lead the Dean mirror to his death.

Basically this is how I see it. If Cas and Sam chose to stay by Dean’s side and keep secrets from him, then Dean is likely to die. If they are honest with him, and leave him, then he will live. Could this be foreshadowing an ultimatum somewhere along the way? If you leave Earth, return to heaven and stay away from OUR territory, then we won’t kill the man you love.

OR, If you go to London with us, work with us there, then we won’t kill your brother?

This is pure speculation of course, but I liked the parallel, and how it foreshadows Dean ending this season very much alone and feeling like he was rejected by choice.

How very heartbreaking indeed.

#supernatural #destiel #dean winchester #castiel #spn meta #sam winchester #episode review #12x15 #season 12 #spn spoilers #spn speculation #destiel dreaming #crowley #drowley #dean x crowley #drowley for ts #wincest for ts #parallels and mirrors #british men of letters #my meta #my review #my thoughts

[elizabethrobertajones]

you ever think about how they hired twins to play the triplets that dean and crowley have sex with. I feel like that right there is proof that they're not queerbaiting, because no one could possibly be baited by that because 99 percent of everyone didn't even notice it. They just put it in there cause dean's bi and they write him as bi.

It’s funny, for whatever reason I was thinking last night about how my own personal definition of the way the show may or may not queerbait has changed over the seasons, and it’s not just to do with personal growth but the way the show is written and the way they are handling things. 

My impression of how it all felt in the start of season 10 was utter disbelief that they were so on the nose about Dean and Crowley, and I know not everyone wants to/does think that they hooked up, but there’s some stuff the show pushed there that in some ways it would have no other excuse to do and I went cold on Drowley several times after feeling like the handling was sweeping it under the rug, writing it off as villainous queerness or other ways to distance Dean from it like suggesting he wasn’t in control or roofied by being a demon, that thankfully at least was not how Crowley died on the show, with 12x15 giving us the last example of how that dynamic had matured, and it WAS matured, and at least in terms of respecting that Dean n Crowley had once eloped, was about as good as it could get. And I think owning that the dynamic wasn’t a sense of that time being abusive was important given how much Dean and Crowley interacted and behaved towards each other AFTER, as well as exactly how we were supposed to read whether Dean should feel violated or smug or nostalgic about it all (and he did flash between them depending on the season or episode in the time after). But at the start of season 10 this whole journey was really only just beginning. 

Obviously people had written about the queercoding and Crowley’s seduction before then, but in very careful metaphorical terms, and as much as it was suggestive in season 9, the fact is that without season 10 it could easily remain a metaphorical ~seduction to evil~ where this was written in terms of romantic seduction - except for where it was fatherly or brotherly - but 10x01 smashed that and made it really really clear that you could read that Dean and Crowley had been hooking up, even independent of the twins/triplets subtext. Specifically when Crowley is annoyed Dean and Ann-Marie hooked up in his bed, and Ann-Marie tells him and Dean to get a room, and he’s like, we had one. Of course you can pretend that not everything Crowley says is innuendo (and room = specifically the bed), but that exchange had a lot of jealousy and a lot about his and Dean’s *personal* relationship, as much as the other stuff was about the more wild stuff they shared with others while howling at the moon. Which was part of the longer term emotional game Crowley was playing about their business relationship and Dean being his scary consort and them sort of going exclusive >.> 

And in that context, Crowley mentions they’d done some memorable stuff to triplets together, and on rewatching you catch they’re hanging out with twins in the bar before that, but the wider context was this absolute explosion of queer subtext and borderline text and a dynamic that needed concentrated work to not come to the conclusion they’d been fucking all summer, with and without buddies of whatever gender with them. Focusing on the male twins in the background as a hint that Dean had had sex with men is ignoring where Crowley directly implies they’d been hooking up and now he wanted to go exclusive with Dean as the hugest neon sign that, yes, Dean has been having sex with at least one man, regardless of the gender of the triplets. Like, I know people were like hurr blurr the triplets could have been women, #no homo, sometimes men sleep with triplets together like bros. Which traps us into hyperfocusing on what the triplets were and using them as the definitive proof, when in fact the reason triplets were being banged in the first place was because Dean and Crowley were banging all the time everywhere up and down seedy bars in America, and Dean didn’t want the good times to end, while Crowley wanted the d all for himself now pls. 

And considering that’s the thing under the paper thin surface that you can remotely pretend that Dean only slept with women and he and Crowley were just hanging out the entire time, regardless of no matter how much more subtext the show piled on later, less close to the surface but with more confidence that everyone knew Dean had banged Crowley and the only way any of this worked any more was that that had happened, even just when we only had 10x01 to work with, the whole Dean n Crowley thing was so enormous that you can’t just speculate on what the twins were to approach to what degree was this queerbaiting or not. The twins are a detail that you can pick up on and speculate on if you look deeper, as they know we sometimes do. I’m not saying they’re NOT an aspect of this, but they’re a relatively buried easter egg of subtext compared to, say, Crowley sobbing over his flickr albums in the next episode :P

To what degree Drowley was queerbaiting is the real question, and since Crowley is now consigned to the show’s history books, we have the full story in a way. In the context of what we have now, I don’t think overall, all comments included, the show ever pretended, even when distancing Dean from it, even when painting it as abusive or Dean having diminished responsibility, that Dean and Crowley did *not* bang. I think there are multiple comments which as long as you are permissive that Dean would have could have probably did, that in seasons 11 and 12 pretty clearly indicate a memory of having slept together one point or another, especially 11x23 and 12x15 with overt references to sexual things from Crowley to Dean, or 11x07 and the implication that over a year later Dean still has Crowley’s answerphone messages from howling at the moon, and knows and remembers details of his personal life fondly. (I don’t think that’s the only time Bobo wrote them like that but that’s the one that springs to mind :P)

Buuut they never showed them on screen in such a way that could be seen from the moon as them together, like actually showing them IN a sexual relationship while Dean was a demon, or having Dean confirm Crowley’s innuendo with more than the usual reactions where he gets plausible deniability to any gay stuff going on. And SOME of that I think MAY be to do with the problems with the villainous queerness slant, and the way it was at times framed as abusive/Dean lacking control. Because they would not commit to exploring the aftermath of that relationship SERIOUSLY, i.e. making it clear they had slept together when Dean was a demon, and him on-screen dealing with how that made him feel and how he felt about Crowley, and even, god forbid, his own sexuality, the best they could do to resolve it was to establish eventually a sort of civil exes dynamic, both aware of their history, but not harping on it, even if Crowley remained somewhat to entirely besotted by Dean for the rest of his time on the show. The lack of handling it seriously means it stays as a somewhat jokey subtext later on, and they can play it off as no harm no foul by the end of season 11 and through season 12. 

I think in that vein it also eventually contributed to Crowley being sidelined and eventual downfall, because he was trapped in the subtext of being Dean’s ex and all the enormous complications that made between them and for his personal life, again without being able to explore it or leave a lasting, openly discussed impact on him. He no longer directly antagonised them, but he couldn’t cross any lines which made him human or part of the team for more than passing moments because the longer he was around Dean the more awkward it got and the more it would beg them to explore what, exactly, were Dean and Crowley now, and the obvious issues that would have/could have arisen if we discussed this like adults and we were allowed to just textually state in a frank and open way that Dean had been seduced by Crowley that one time. 

And I think in terms of where that puts us, it means that Drowley was very much a stifled relationship, officially over and no chance of getting it back, which in some ways is as large as or larger then Destiel in the weight it puts on the show when it comes to answering queerbaiting charges, because it could never be addressed openly while Crowley was alive, still ISN’T acknowledged, and Dean is as closeted as he was before, despite in his actual living human memory, knowing what it’s like to bang Crowley on the side for 3 months of his life with no direct personal growth (that is: now banging Cas, happily, or even banging other random guys, no angst, just for fun hook ups, equivalent to the textual times he picks up women) to show for this wild college experimentation metaphor phase of his life. 

At this point you really can only change the final judgement on it by making Dean canonically bi and then giving him the character growth, acknowledging the role Crowley had played in it, and allowing him to live what had just been subtext as a textual part of his character. In all other respects, I think the fact that Dean subtextually has hooked up with Crowley, and presumably other men probably other than the male implied triplets we saw on screen as well, but it’s relegated to this one particular part of his story and locked up in the subtext box, is going to look absolutely like one of the show’s worst sins of queerbaiting if we get to the end and that box is never opened again. And not to say it all looks rosy while we wait until the hypothetical what if of textualising Dean’s bisexuality and trying to live a positive life of hoping that will happen. As it stands, the handling in the text is depressing, and speaks of how far the show will currently allow any queer relationship for Dean to go. Meaning a worst case scenario is that his borderline subtextual marriage to Cas may never move beyond a similar point if this remains the high water mark of the show’s willingness to show Dean in a genuine, sexual relationship with a man. And that’s something you have to at least think about, in terms of how it looks now, and how it might look one day, no matter how positive you are about the endgame of the show, when it comes to being realistic about the show’s queerbaiting, or at least perceived queerbaiting if you don’t believe they are. That’s what other people are seeing, both with Drowley and Destiel. 

I mean, that deleted scene in 10x14 says it best: Cas and Crowley trapped together, frustrated and living in angry despair in their competition over Dean, where he is busy not picking either of them, while they vie for his attention and consider each other his boyfriend in all but name, and yet he will not commit to either of them in the way they desire. And this is the same frustrated wall that Cas is still stuck bouncing up against, even when his romantic rival is *utterly* vanquished and removed from the narrative, and hadn’t even really been competing for Dean for like 2 seasons before that.

#Asks #10x01 #dean x crowley for ts #this isn't meant wankily at all because I love the show and I'm forgiving and permissive of all this as anything #but still #I have to see this and call it when I do #regardless of how I feel in general about the show #so I am writing from as neutral a point of view as I can here #dean is bi #and you know I personally celebrated each and every nugget of Drowley subtext they gave us :P

[tinkdw]

I think anon was upset because you and your friend treated Drowley as if it was positive queer rep. It shouldn't be celebrated as "rep"

I’m gonna play devils advocate here and state why not?

I’ve repeatedly said that I do not see this as non-con given my meta reading of Demon!Dean being entirely if not more than normal Dean’s true self and Crowley never coerced him / lied to him.

It was consensual. So what exactly is the problem? 

If Dean consents and Crowley consents and their relationship has changed forever into slightly antagonistic but friendly allies who do actually watch out for each other, to the point that Crowley sacrifices a powerful weapon to save Cas FOR DEAN “you’re welcome” then sacrifices himself to give Dean and the others a chance, then why is it not positive rep of any kind.

Why is this different?

I see people shipping Sam with Rowena left right and centre. It’s not really any different on the antagonistic but allies lovers scale when you consider Demon!Dean is Dean and there’s no manipulation here.

If they were consenting adults who happen to have an interesting queer relationship that creates an interesting dynamic within the show, then why is it bad?

Hm?

Side note: you know my real issue with this is that it takes away from others who are ACTUAL rapists/non-con in the show (a shit ton of women by the way and many written by the terrible duo like it wasn’t rape when in fact it was so fuck them) and makes them seem less bad if you lump them in with Crowley who was redeemed. Crowley did a lot of shit and he did terrible things (he did get a relatively good redemption arc to be fair, but not fully, but again this was the opposite of Rachel, issues with Mark, so narratively we can see that he was set up as supposed to be getting one so I pretty much count it). He did a lot of bad stuff, he raped other people, sure, but this is not one of them and lumping him in with actual rapists re: TFW just doesn’t fly with me because it dumbs down the real ones that we really should take issue with if you’re going to go down that route.

#devils advocate #like #im treating everyone on a level playing field here #regardless of gender/orientation #are YOU #rape for ts #drowley #Anonymous

[deanirae]

awright kids! i took the pills that make you stare at garbage and here’s what i saw aka 13.01 condensed bc boy i sure dont do meta anymore, so fuckle up for the short ride:

- general experience: it wasn’t rotating on a cactus terrible. it was more like throwing bars of soap on a road, watching cars flatten them to the ground for approximately 35 minutes, at the same time thinking well at least i didnt shove them up my ass so thats something ... [im sure the german language has a word just for that]

- expectation vs reality: i avoided every single tiny spoiler for the whole summer and i didnt even have to be on my dash last night (and i wasnt) to immediately guess the papa cas schtick is a-go. now were it anyone else i would say “try harder” but its dabb we’re talking about so i dont want to give him any ideas. 

...andrew dabb, if youre reading this, please, this is not a challenge. also, stop bootleging my ideas. im doing the better. i got this, andy. u can stop. please stop

- other things that are worth noting:

u dont get to call people crazy if u got uncle jessie hair in 2k17 dude

i loved the friessssssss angel so much, gonna miss her. i just love angels with some personality to them. too bad they all die lol

all the cas is fam talk and they ditched his body lmao. i mean duh i know they came back but like.... they had no guarantee nothing uh-oh would happen with the corpse so... ha ha? thats so sad

 i also  really liked the sherriff but i just love sherriff ladies thats what i doo

dean u shouldve prayed to amara she liked u better

dean:

*pulls sheet off, goes :/, pulls sheet back on*

me:

u know what? same

oh look now dean had a chair to sit by cas’s resting place what a morbidly nice touch

for all i care sam and jack can grab hands and straddle a passing asteroid together assuming it means leaving dean in peace

8.22 called, said nephilim arent immortal... that was ur episode dabb, the fuckseriously where the hell is loflin. bring him back he was doing damage control

why was... the shitty car.... so important...  in the prayers scene.... [meta writers dont interact, i honestly dont wanna hear it]

“even crowley” TRY PRYING THAT FROM MY CROOKED HANDS FUCKERS

“goodbye crowley” DEAN LOVED HIM TOO AND NOW U KNOW THIS

also i am sooo against this constant benny erasure so i assume everyone means him too yanno

- special award i honestly didnt expect to give but here we are: cheesebutt ...all these months i spent as a mcdonalds cook and it never  crossed my mind? i am full of regrets now

#supernatural #13.01 #13x01 #dean winchester #drowley #spn spoilers for ts #i can go to classes now and focus on nicer things like antibiotics #Koment

[finaledenialist]

absolutely stoked to see someone else embrace the ts/spn crossover we all deserve in 2021. if i may, what are her top 5 songs u think fit best w our freakish boys? (im talking specifically cas, dean, and sam here, but also would be thrilled to hear. well. any take on this lol)

well hello there and thanks for the follow! 💕 this is a tough question but here's what i think:

Dean: this is me trying, come back be here, marjorie, dear john, haunted, this love, shake it off, stay stay stay, the archer, cowboy like me, breathe, daylight, afterglow, gorgeous

Cas: you are in love, my tears ricochet, tolerate it, fearless, sparks fly, cruel summer, style, i think he knows, happiness, tell me why, enchanted, false god, call it what you want

of course love story, endgame, change, lover, ours, i am only me when im with you and the story of us are obviously destiel songs. and dress! like i am sorry but those lyrics?! of course these are not all but i have to stop somewhere

actually no, almost the whole red album is about dean and cas. from track 1 to the very end, i mean state of grace, sad beautiful tragic, holy ground, treacherous, the last time, all to well, everything has changed, i almost do, i knew you were trouble?!

i never thought about taylor's song from Sam's perspective though and I don't want to come up with some dumb answer here. maybe 'mine' and 'never grow up' and 'mean'? 'never grow up' also fits for jack. claire is dean so 'shake it off' once again.

and not that long time ago someone pointed out to me that you can look at the whole 1989 album from crowley's (and drowley summer of love lmao) perspective and i agree completely 'all you had to do was stay' or 'i wish you would' or 'wildest dreams' even 'welcome to new york' and 'blank space' (maybe its a little crack but why not: 'bad blood' haha)

also ivy is a dean/benny song, wonderland and out of the woods are about purgatory

thanks for this question as you see i can talk about this forever!!!

#ask #taylor swift x destiel

[thekingsparty]

I’ve got an aching head Echoes and buzzing noises I know the words we said But wish I could’ve turned our voices down

This is not black and white Only organized confusion I’m just trying to get it right And in spite of all I should’ve done

I was not mad at you I was not trying to tear you down The words that I could’ve used I was too scared to say out loud

If I cannot break your fall I’ll pick you up right off the ground If you felt invisible I won’t let you feel that now

You didn’t get your way And it’s an empty feeling You’ve got a lot to say And you just want to know you’re being heard But this is not black and white There are no clear solutions I’m just trying to get it right And in spite of all I should’ve done.

Invisible - Linkin Park

#drowley #leт'ѕ тaĸe a нowl aт тнaт мoon ( crowley/dean ) #//because this is so drowley #if you ... make dean actually realise he treated crowley like crap #and then he's dead..gone #long post #long post for ts #this is pretty much me and #damnatiinfinem #our boys

[f-ckyeahfutbol]

@postmodernmulticoloredcloak While we’re on this: I haven’t seen people talking about how Crowley’s Mark Sheppard vessel has just him inside. Which is something the show does when he has a Winchester have sex with someone with a vessel.

I mean, how fucking dare you!

(I meant to post this earlier, have some Starbucks.)

We’ve seen that Crowley’s vessel is unoccupied in Road Trip, First Born and Hell’s Angel (three is a pattern!), and if the original occupant of the vessel wasn’t dead before, he certainly died by Castiel’s hand in Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire (if I had to guess, I’d say the vessel’s occupant has been dead at least since Caged Heat).

#drowley for ts #crowley #dean winchester #dean is bi #dean x crowley

[archived8253]

What do you think of the Deanmon/Crowley summer of love? Do you think there was some sort of romance there? I personally consider it canon even tho i know the writers just wanted to make a joke :]]

(based on ‘the hammer is my penis’ scene in Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog)

I’m pretty sure the writers were making a joke, but I totally headcanon that something went down there. They did do some extraordinary things to triplets, after all. 

#q and a #ask for ts #drowley for ts #Anonymous

[neven-ebrez]

Hey, how are you? I was wondering if you saw any significance in the fact that Cas/Crowley said essentially the same thing to Sam/Dean, respectively (one scene after another). Cas: "You know, Sam, WE COULD USE ALL THE HELP WE COULD GET to find Metatron and Gadreel." Sam: "...We got this." (cut to Crowley/Dean) Crowley: "Listen up! Even with the blade, WE COULD USE ALL THE HELP WE COULD GET against Abaddon." Dean: "...Go find the blade." Am I blind or still crazy? Sorry to bother you! :)

I talked a little bit about this in another ask: how Crowley was being used as a Cas substitute in the narrative.  This just layers onto that IMO.  ^_^

#ask zerbe #drowley for ts #LOL #dean/other for ts #9x11 #what is up with crowley? #Anonymous

[tinkdw]

I think the Drowley thing is a bit more nuanced than that. I don’t think it was rape because demon dean consented, but I can’t help but feel like human Dean feels a bit violated in hindsight. Does that make sense?

Yeah it is nuanced but also it’s not like it’s even a middle ground that some people wouldn’t see but is still entirely rape like rape by deception you know? It’s not anywhere near as bad as April x Cas or Ruby x Sam, which a lot of people don’t count as rape which um no. It is legally rape, but whatever.

Crowley didn’t do this. He didn’t have ulterior motives that Dean wasn’t aware of or was hiding anything big from him like wanting to actually kill him, if anything he was trying to help him by sating he mark etc. Sure some of it is that he wanted Dean as his Queen/King by his side but he genuinely liked him and they had fun, he liked Dean, it was just that Dean himself was different and making different choices. It’s not the same situation at all.

It therefore comes down to how you view Demon!Dean and per the meta perspective Dean wasn’t NOT himself, in fact he was even more himself than usual in many ways, unrepressed etc so this concept that he was misled isn’t valid, and he made these choices himself and he was entirely in control of himself too, plus he was more himself than ever in many ways.

It’s not an easy topic for sure but it’s also nowhere near as black as he was raped, that’s the least correct of the options when you believe Demon!Dean was still Dean. Which is the whole point of this arc, to expose things about Dean himself. Even then Demon!Dean still made the choice based on truths and wasn’t misled or lied to by Crowley so it just isn’t anyway. It’s icky because Dean is kind of embarrassed by it / doesn’t what to really think about it, but hey I’ve had my fair share for those amiright?! But that’s it.

#rape for ts #1. #2. #3. #4. #5. #drowley

[f-ckyeahfutbol]

You will pry the theory that the first crossroads demon was the King of the Crossroads himself from my cold dead hands, I don’t care which demon flunky Sam killed later.

#dean x crowley #drowley for ts #crowley #dean is bi