#ca tfa meta

[blindtaleteller]

MCU Asgard Canon Observation Research [Part 1]

Firstly and before I even start in on the subject, keep in mind that this is what it says: a collection of research into actual Canon Lore from the Marvel Cinematic Universe: not the comics, or the Nordic lore twice removed from it.

Secondly and alongside that, also keep in mind that even back at the start of the MCU as a long term project, while the MCU is based on the Marvel comics universe: the creators made a point of making it a completely different universe: for many varying reasons, including the spaces lacking continuity in the comics over the years that the MCU as a project wanted to pursue from it's first conception.

This is a large part of why there are phases and why they were numbered from it's creation. (And yes also why my tags recently mentioning counting phases are what they are elsewhere, but that's a whole other post.. or set of them.)

These are important to remember because, I would like to avoid previous iterations of people wasting their time trying to insert comics-universe lore and more excessively into or onto this requested post purely for the sake of, well; being argumentative or just trolling:as much as possible. I do try to take some time to respond to comments and reblogs as much as possible, but I can and will ignore or yes, at times point out people unable to manage these things.. and respond as necessary.

I normally wouldn't bother to mention this except yes, that has happened before so: consider this your disclaimer.. I ain't dealin' with you if you're gonna be a trolly shit disrespectful enough of the time effort and willingness to share what research and observations I have, by shitting on it or me in your pursuit of whatever flimsy excuses might be given for any inhuman reactions posted passive aggressive or worse.

More frankly: be respectful on my posts or get lost. I don't tolerate harassment on my blog whether it's aimed at me or others. Passive aggressive or otherwise. I'll discuss stuff, am happy to have any valid references I might miss added to and pointed out. Just don't be an asshat about it, and you'll get the same from me. That's how basic-bitch Karma, and I; both work: you'll get what you give along those lines, while in my space.

The necessary now out of the way... Next!

More as a side note with that mentioned; while I may mention some meta/theory in the form of the most probable (as that's how my meta in particular is formed) it is again: based on the facts of the canon lore and contexts confirmed presented in it; visually, in dialogue, and out of the mouths of the very people who made all that themselves, at the time that lore was given to us on screen: and will be mentioned as the theory and supposition that is 'meta' rather than 'canon'. I have gone out of my way as a fan of world, universe, and character building as a part of the creative process in particular: to watch, rewatch, rewatch again and again, and hunt down all this stuff (often lol purely out of my own curiosity.) All in all Meta is theory, Canon is story/film-established fact; and I do try to keep a clear line between the two of them. The early world and character building in the MCU has always been interesting enough to me alone, to do all that with my free time.

And that's especially true with Asgard in particular, as a main story driving force in one form or another as far back as 2010 when both Thor and CA: tFA's scripts were being filmed and their sets/settings picked out and created.

Final few bits before we get into it..? As Asgard lore (and even a lack of it's presence at times) is directly and appropriately attached and or in relation to the lore of several races, species, and massive events in the entirety of the MCU's first three phases.. I will be touching some of those cultures and places too, where important. Probably not in this particular part, but yeah. It's gonna happen.

As with the research post into Loki and his year of absence prior to Avengers 2012: (yes that's a link to an ask that contains a good chunk of info and years of interviews on that particular subject) this might not be an entirely complete compilation: for the same reasons. As I said, i didn't just watch, I rewatched repeatedly from differing personal mental angles: not just three or four times, but and as I wrote my own fanfiction.. I would also re-watch once or twice just prior to fleshing out an outlined story of my own to refresh my memory, seek out interviews official and otherwise from the creators and actors who made that lore and put it on screen for us to enjoy as part of the stories we enjoyed (or not, depending lol) and well.. the resulting organization of the whole outside of this post is less than comprehensive for anyone else. You can see the explanation for how that happens in the foreword of that thread if you're curious.

As a result, I may or may not exclude the actual interviews if this gets too long. Much of the visual in this first part especially are pretty self explanatory, as I did find some of my dissection pics too.

All said (I think? Gods I hope so that was a lot wasn't it? XD) and as suggested/requested recently in discord?

This one is gonna be expansive.. and hellaciously so: so grab your drinks and your snacks and still be prepared for this series of posts to be going for while (not kidding, may be compiling this properly between jobs for weeks) so yeah..

Here we go again!

The major forgotten fact of Asgard's depiction in the MCU is this:

We the audience are only shown a very tiny fragment of Asgard as another separate planet in space, and: they do show us we're missing as much, from the very first film.

That gif directly from the movie I used at the top? I'm using it again, because...

..look at that.

With topography, perspective and size in mind.

That tiny golden triangle in the middle is the Palace at the center. The little golden bar along that tiny portion to either side? Is the city attached to it proper, with the Bifrost, and as far as we've seen the 'Heroes Road' (as soem are calling it) and city walls cupping the Bifrost Bay directly facing the camera.

This is a space shot (of course,) and that tiny itty bitty moving spec that is still shrinking as it gets further from our perspective and closer to Asgard at the bottom, is the Bifrost in use.

And, they do give us a few views of that as early as five to six minutes into the first movie in 2011, as seen in the first clip below. I've set it to share at the first view of Asgard itself.

Hopefully that works. If not, the timestamp you're looking for is 2:04.

I recommend shutting off the audio, as it's a bit distracting. Trust me, we will get back to the very interesting audio from a world builder's perspective, when we get to the History and Relations section of Asgard's break down.. there are several tons, of that and in that opener alone, to examine later.

IMPORTANT!! When looking at any of these images or videos, keep in mind and look at the scale. Not just in the scene on screen at that moment, but also in reference to previous shots. Distance is a thing. The size of trees and people are a thing. This place in the MCU is much more massive than where it's very cloistered story parts take place.

This is not a city-planet like and for comparison: Coruscant, from Star Wars... though I am very aware that some people will throw out Asgard's concept art to try and 'debunk' that (yes its' been done and proven pointless in other threads).. that does also bring us to another couple of facts that slip by in their context.

In fact, you know what? I'll throw it in here right now myself:

This concept art: does still apply, if slightly adjusted with the topography and likely under ground portions taken into account.. because Asgard is the name of both the planet AND the city as separate entities of the same locale.

In other words, the concept art is VERY valid as a map of the city itself: but not the outlying locations outside of Asgard as a Capital City Proper, of Asgard as a disk planet.

And again.. they do show us this, and not just in the first film: although that first shot going into the city says as much too, being that..

A. Asgard is established as a society greatly more advanced than Earth and most others, and;

B. there are whole swaths of land (and especially mountain they like to build into) without structure between the edge panned through and the City itself. (see still image below: not the best quality but it's also in the video.)

Which.. we'll touch again a little more in a bit (and probably the biggest lol) part of this breakdown set; digging at History, Culture, and Relations.. as the fact they do prefer to build INTO their environment much more than on top of it is also shown in the shot of the canyons and canals on which not only that city is built, but even what buildings are shown outside of it on that panning-in shot.

We can see in the one above though: that while they did redirect some of the water through canals in the lower shot; they also kept and built into the natural(?*) lay of the river canyons below.

This theme is kept even before we get into the city though with the first part of the shot above the water.

Want a more visual view of the breakdowns as I do them?

Here you go, here's one example from out of my crazy folders and docs, that I made in paint back in 2013 (LOL yes I know. XD) while once again re-watching that same scene.

I would highly suggest clicking on it, as tumblr does downsize images making text on them hard to read otherwise. Crappy in-motion quality screen cap but, it was made more for breaking down the visual elements on screen for what it told us about the land, and more; on it.

----[?*] As a set of side/foot notes to that last bit and the image..

A. the top left corner yes: does reference some of where I use certain observations of canon in my own fics; and how they would have grown or evolved depending on that story. In this case, and at the time: the pink text is making note to utilize those observations in outlining Hvedrungr (Loki from Uni 0) and Flykra's (Loki from Vesti1 Uni 14) universes in particular: both of which return to Asgard at VERY different times and in different situations: while the history and culture I've been able to glean and expand on in some cases is still part of their and the location's background. As I don't have the patience to remove the text from an old paint shop cut.. I thought I would at least explain it's presence left there. These things are, ultimately connected by the culture that originated on and created them on that planet after all.. and why there's an entire section dedicated to the varied aspects of Asgard's presented Cultural, Relations, and History lore. B. The '?' at the 'natural' mention in parenthesis above, also takes into account that Asgard is much older than Earth's culture and has to be: if only because as only three generations have come and gone over the passage of what to us is five thousand years! (see the next installment Thor the Dark World: Bor and Darkalfheim, or just watch the movie with info gathering in mind.) In other words, between Bor's War, and Odin's Asgardian Great Wars: we cannot be certain whether or not 1. those canyons are actually natural or the now aged result of one of many previous interplanetary wars, or 2. whether Asgard at this stage of it's showing timed at 2011 more than a millennia later, has even always been this size, given their advancement in technology and study of magic as presented OR left in question, either. For my part, as there's no conclusive dialogue from that era to state otherwise in the MCU or it's interviews that I know of, and knowing the context of Malekith and Darkalfheim's familiarity with Asgard itself during their raid to reclaim the infinity stone: I tend to veer towards a mixture of the two. While it's very likely at least some of the canyons are indeed natural; the great age of the culture and planet both, along with the nature of Bor and Odin's rules alone as we've seen them: leaves a HUGE and LONG period of time and opportunities for some of those nasty fights to come directly to them... or even their predecessors. Which would also explain why they had that shield for the palace too. You don't build and more importantly upkeep something like that without a very good set of reasons or examples experienced, to do so after all. Much of that is meta though, however based on canon fact it may be: and as many of the creators were not asked publicly during that era, and have been dismissed or moved on to other projects since.. it's hard to know if we'll ever see a *genuine* answer from the people who actually made it all starting sixteen years ago.

Anyway, let's look at a few more shots of Asgard with that breakdown going. Some of these are all old, from as far back as about ten years ago when I first started writing outlines for the varied universes in my Lokiverse Project: but they do still hold up. theer are some from TDW in this bunch too. I heavily dissected these scenes knowing I was going to do whole chapters in multiple differing universes, and wanted to have the presented layout and feel laid out in my head, before I started adding in locations on the planet not yet shown on film. And given my first Book was already going to be DREAMS.. where Asgard has been blown to bits post Endgame? I really wanted to get it right so I could deconstruct it as many times as I and the muses wanted to. Laufeyson (Universe 10 Loki) was pretty insistent too with the opening chapters on his end focusing partially on that chase with Abell through Asgard's blown apart ruin

Sorry for the ramble of an explanation, but that's how it is and how it works over here...? XD

..uhmmmm. Yeah lol! When I said I watch and re-watch from differing mental perspectives..? That's what I mean. I don't usually share those at all... only the unedited pics. Genrally I will take caps or take existing raw caps and pick out piece that catch my eye. I've been told they do help put your brain in the right mode for those who have difficulty processing them in that way, like I do when in that mode. Also yes, trees and fish ...bruh. lol!

It's there, has been for years in some cases; and I'm not messing with it now.

That basic bit out of the way (doesn't sound so basic does it.) Let's backtrack a bit, specifically to Asgard's shape and the placement of it's location and the locations on it.

As I first write this, I don't have the talks I had with a few wild meteorologists and geologists back then directly on hand (as this is a part I still don't focus on too much; but:) shaped as it is, those I did talk to theorized that between the shape and placement of planets as well as the nebula they're partially inside, that Asgard may be shaped and in rotation as it is because of its' placement in it's system: or because of late interference by Asgard's inhabitants to keep it stable.

^ That one scene in particular from Thor 2011 really made my eyes pop. Not because of what's going on in it so much as trying to answer the whys and hows and what the actual fricks man: because..

Can you imagine, the conversation: trying to pitch that spinning death ball to the King there OR anywhere else on the planet before Bor or even his great grandfather?

Or, trying to talk the royalty down from the idea of putting it anywhere NEAR the palace, or other people's homes?

How about testing that house sized death-by-velocity-alone gilded mess? (Yes I still laugh thinking about that. Some poor scholar/engineer type trying to dissuade Bor's grand-daddy from building what would definitely become a giant pinball of death in the canyons and canals, if that thing ever came off it's anchors even once in the city. Good gods! lol!) Who knows; maybe that was when people started moving to Vanaheim... XD! Just (mostly) kidding.

Cray-cray thoughts of high velocity gilded pinball hell that was probably somewhere way back in the Bifrost's likely development and evolution as tech/normie science boosted by magic, and or vice versa, aside:

You probably notice I've mentioned the nebulae and the planets in their rotation more than once. And with good reason.

Backing up a bit; Asgard is interesting well before you hit her shores.

Not only is she a top-shaped disk-planet: but with the way the sky is shown: Asgard has a very interesting rotation if she has any left at all. There's very little we know, but what we do know is she is not alone in her systematic rotation either way.

(Asgard's sky from Thor's personal Hall in Thor: the Dark World)

In fact and as seen in the screen caps above: Asgard has an incredibly close relation to at least three planets in her nebulous solar system. At least one of which is absolutely massive: massive enough that it's close proximity is theorized as being pretty likely to be the only way Asgard experiences night cycles as seen in Thor: the Dark World... mainly through eclipsing the nebulous sun by passing between it and Asgard as a planet.

Which is both cool -and- scary when you take things like degrading orbits, space debris and projectiles like comets and other space science into account.. but also very, very interesting.

It also begs the question either way: why didn't Asgard at their earlier establishment of a greater technological level, colonize or move to those planets sooner? Of course.. the first obvious answer is.. they probably couldn't, at first. And even more probably were past trying by the time the Bifrost was built, prior to Bor's time (I say prior because we have seen Bor use it in Thor the Dark World: and on a massive scale moving whole armies, the same as his son Odin. See some of the scenes from Bor's seizure of the Aether below.)

But yeah, Asgard is a pretty unique place even before you get to the water fall's edge: or questioning what kind of condensed mass it has to retain gravity at it's very small size.

Or, whether that gravity and the shape is in fact generated in some form or another after millennia upon millennia of just the Wars we do know about in their history.

(At current we know about Darkalfheim and the series of Wars including Jotunheim and Muspelheim that they call the Great Wars. While they are definitely aware of the extensive millennia of intergalactic war between the Xandarian based Nova Corps and the Kree Empire put front and center in GotG.. there hasn't been any actual confirmation as to whether Asgardians fought in that war on either side: only that they are at that stage at least loosely allied with Asgard.. if not a more separated protectorate being considered among the nine realms in the MCU.)

Why do I keep pointing out trees, and perspective; or teh size of the city in that first little gif again?

Because.. that is our repeated visual evidence of just how much of Asgard as a planet; the story did not take place in.. huge parts of the place we haven't seen. And that makes sense.

Power plants or generators, smithys, and even schools can be easily placed in the city proper, at this stage.

But what about BEFORE, they got to this stage.. because that is a thing in the MCU in regards to Asgard: and a major plot point for three movies of script running, from 2010 all the way to 2015 when Taika Waititi was hired (unfortunately, for those of us who know the root of what happened there.)

What about food, for thousands of 5000 year lifespans and their kids. And their grandkids. And.. the food for the livestock, or the wild game

Or the bilgesnipes and dragons--well we can guess what happened to the dragons of Asgard in particular actually. If they were anything like Muspelheim's; and on a planet that size..? It doesn't take much to figure out Odin, Bor and their predecessors probably couldn't excuse not hunting a predator big enough to swallow people to extinction: not for much longer than they absolutely had to anyway.

What about fibers and leather for clothes.

How about waste management, for both the city and suburban areas? Sewers? Water filtration? Factories or slaughterhouses to process it all, and the means to support those things. Everything man made, is grown, processed or made somewhere.

We know they have these things, because we know they have and make their own alcohol (fermentation of grains, fruits, and more); as well as other things to eat: displayed in both T1 and TDW.

(The top image is from Thor's table flip scene in Thor 2011; while the one below it is from the tavern scene in the beginning of Thor: the Dark World.)

Meat, vegetables, fruit, grain, herbs, and seasonings are all represented on the tables above. While some might be imported (I really do wonder about the platters of golden apples myself:) it's not very likely all of them are. And it wouldn't make sense for them to have been imported from off world throughout their species development either. After all and again: they would have had to have survived and developed enough to GET TO, that stage in the first place.

You're also looking at Varnish in the shine of that table; smithing and metal working and ceramics in their table ware. Weaving either plant or animal fibers in their clothes, as well as the likely production of tannin (or it's equivalent) and leather working in every leather piece on screen. Candles can be made from varied sources, whether that's actual wax of some form, or condensed animal fat.

Oh, and if you find the enlarged version of those images: you'll also notice things like fine engraving and metal sculpture to the goblets and platters on the Thor 2011 table in particular.

Either way, the images above show us directly that unsurprisingly, they have come to understand whole other sub-levels of production: before you even get to the high-tech and magic ends of any of that to be able to reproduce it in that modern era.

As another side note related to that: the booze alone is pretty telling as to how far off the "Loki" series is on this mark, as well. Creators of current content 'conveniently forgot' that this is supposed to be a space faring, technologically advanced society (even if they're the social equivalent of medieval imperialist thugs .. lol sorry not sorry! That's literally how they're depicted... and honestly that really weird twist IS some of Asgard's most interesting and strange development) whose friends, allies and other examples of places visited DO and HAVE included Earth, Xandar, and six other 'realms' as their etymology names them: for literal millennia. Even taking the other, long established cultural influences and visitations aside? For a society who 5000 years ago was still porting whole armies to other planets to kick peoples asses? The idea they never discovered honey; or sugar especially even on the inside of a fermentation barrel for wine; OR how to process it into something like candy? Is more than just a -little- dumb in the stretch. Sugar often naturally starts to separate and crystallize during the fermentation process. Ask a vintner, or look it up if you don't believe me. Just sayin'.. just on Earth alone, we know sweets were discovered more than 8000 years ago. Eight thousand. And the only reason we haven't been able to confirm people older than that finding things like bee's hives?? Is because well.. that kind of thing rarely survives even that length of time at all, to be found in archeology in order to tell us more. I'll touch that and how it's pretty damned near impossible that 'Loki doesn't know wtf candy is' being 1k+ years himself, and a guy raised as an Asgardian prince & spymaster to boot later into the culture section I think, but mmm.. that whole bit still reeks of stupid, to me And more so after their own DB Cooper scene. Gonna say candy wasn't a snack in that era either? Cause if so; I got big shocking news, for those who think so... XD

In closing.. for this part?

As far as the world of Asgard goes, we have only been allowed to see a very small part of it: and even then? It is still undoubtedly massively larger than even what's implied: and definitely capable of supporting it's comparatively small base population of less than 10k people.

(Odin's subterranean vault reference: exterior)

The only reason we don't see even more of it; is the fact that films have a limited time to give you everything, and the story focuses on the royal family from the get go. And they live, in the heart of Asgard's capital city... so we largely don't see as much of that as weirdo world building fans like me would absolutely love to see in the process... and frankly; they gave plenty enough to start us off with.

The films would have suffered for having too much more of that, rather than the stories they were trying to tell.

The same.. I would love to know more: and I do wish the current teams paid the previous ones more respect by using what was already there and expanding on it: instead of making mismatched new things up, as they went.

The early creative teams really knew what they were doing back then.

(Asgard's defensive cannons defending against the Darkalfheim air raid in Thor the Dark World.)

And no, this isn't all they showed us, in the show and tell they did manage to give us over the course of years of work... far from it.

Hope you enjoyed part one! Maybe you learned or saw something you missed.. or have been inspired to watch the older films again..?

I know I often am.

#MCU #Asgard #MCU Asgard #Lore drops #research #scene dissection #location and culture dissection #world building #universe building #Lokiverse references #writing references #writing research #Youtube #MCU Lore #part one: #about the land more than the people on it #don't worry: we'll get to that #:3

[rosettyller]

Do people ever think about what it was like for Bucky between his rescue from Azzano and falling off the train? We don't see much of it in the film, but think about it. He's dealing with the trauma of being a POW and being tortured and experimented on, but also, he's got to deal with the serum

Does he actually know what they've injected him with? His conversation with Steve suggests he does, but even if he didn't he'd work it out. And now he's got to deal with the fact he's stronger, faster, heals quicker, etc. If Steve, his best friend didn't notice anything was up, then no one would have, and Bucky must have kept it pretty hidden. Did he hide all his injuries - all the times he got shot, stabbed etc. - because he knew if someone found out about his injuries, they'd notice how fast he healed? Did he pretend to be a normal person, with normal abilities? And maybe one day, someone died that he could have saved if he hadn't been hiding. How would he have felt. Constantly fighting a battle between 'I can't tell anyone' and 'I could save more lives'. And how would he think Steve would react about it? Would he think Bucky's trying to steal his limelight? (No, but would Bucky know that?)

Maybe he starts accidentally breaking things, because he doesn't know his own strength. Maybe he's always hungry (more so than before) because his faster metabolism burns up food a lot quicker but it'll be suspicious if he eats Steve-sized portions.

Maybe one day he accidentally shows too much strength in front of someone - like when John Walker bent that pipe in front of Sam. How does he excuse that. Are they going to find him out? Surely, at some point, they'll see him get injured, shot. How does he explain away the fact he's good to go in a quarter of the time it should take?

The pain meds they give him don't work - he burns through them immediately, but he can't say anything. He can't drink at all or they'll wonder why he doesn't get drunk like the rest of them.

How would it feel, no one but him knowing the truth? Having such an important secret bottled up inside? The fear that he can't hide forever. The fear of what will happen if someone finds out. The fear that he doesn't actually know for certain what's been done. The fear that he might end up like the Red Skull. The fear of Zola coming after him to reclaim his experiment.

#bucky barnes #captain america: the first avenger #ca tfa #tfa #meta #bucky barnes meta #ca tfa meta #winter soldier

[rightisntalwayseasy]

The MCU stop using Peggy for Steve’s man pain instead of the amazing character she is? That’d be the dream

MARGARET “PEGGY” CARTER IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN JUST STEVE’S ETERNAL SYMBOL OF MAN PAIN. AND IT MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE FOR STEVE TO BE PINING AND MOPING ABOUT HIS BEST FRIEND OF HIS ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE THAN OVER THE FIRST WOMAN TO EVER SHOW HIM ANY KIND OF AFFECTION OTHER THAN FRIENDSHIP. 

please don’t get me wrong. i 100% ship peggy and steve. but the reality is is that more than likely that kiss was the only thing they ever shared, and the promise of a date. I love their ship. I have written so much about them, even if it was just in my head.

but for steve, bucky barnes is the beginning and the end. he’s been there for steve through literally everything, he’s seen steve when he was a scrawny nothing fighting for someone’s honor in a back alley and he saw steve when the world only saw a bond symbol. he saw steve and supported steve and loved steve through it all. he’s the one consistent for steve. 

so let peggy carter be a fucking badass and stop forcing her to be only a thoroughfare for steve’s emotional turmoil thanks.

and LET STEVE SHOW LOVE FOR HIS BEST FRIEND AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN HIS LIFE WITHOUT HAVING TO CODE IT AS TWO HETERO DUDES BEING DUDES.

#sar rants #marvel meta #sar writes things #peggy carter #bucky barnes #steve rogers #ca: tfa #sar bitches about marvel being fucking cowards #Anonymous

[salty-ironstrange-shipper]

I’m finally getting around to writing MCU fics and I was wondering gif you had any advice

not sure if you mean specifically for mcu fics or fics in general but I'll give it a go

(also this is all based on what I do and what mostly works for me; feel free to deviate as suits you)

for multi-chapter give yourself a posting schedule (ex. 1/week, 2/week, 1/2 weeks, etc.) and have a few chapters or so ready before you start posting to give yourself a bit of a buffer. I started doing this because I have a tendency to write a ton when I first start a fic, but then slow down a lot once life butts in

hm actually I don't have a lot of just fic writing advice that I haven't talked about before. here's are links to previous advice I've given

MCU specific

rewatch movies/series with the characters you're writing about. for ironstrange, I rewatch the Iron Man movies, Doctor Strange, and Infinity War (I don't rewatch endgame and probably never will) (that also sounds like a lot but I enjoy those movies, lol). Take note of lesser-remarked upon character ticks or emotional scenes when they let their guard down. Everyone likes to talk about Tony being an arrogant (bleh) billionaire playboy, but the scenes where he hangs out with his friends (ie Rhodey and Pepper, not the Avengers), where he speaks to Obie, where he interacts with his employees are much truer indications of his actual character, as opposed to the mask (ha) he wears in public or around people he doesn't know/trust well.

(continued for space) The scene in Iron Man where he sits alone working on a gauntlet while watching the news about a village being held hostage (which he blames himself for) is also extremely telling. A couple of character ticks are that he doesn't like being handed things (but might allow someone to if they're close enough), wears/puts on his sunglasses when attempting to hide his vulnerability (and takes them off when he's being open), and usually drives with someone else at the wheel unless a scene wants him on his own or just talking to a particular other character

(focusing on Tony a bit because he has so many more movies right now that focus on him than Stephen so it's a bit easier to pick up on patterns)

another way to get a good feel for a character is to read other fans' metas, which can expand on a particular character's personality, movies, specific scenes, specific behaviors and/or psychology. there are some on my blog tagged #meta, #ironstrange meta, #mcu meta, #tony stark meta (I actually don't have any for Stephen rn that I could find sorry, though there are probably plenty floating around on tumblr)

tvtropes, which I've mentioned a couple of times particularly on one of my other blogs, is a resource I use a lot to get a stronger feel for characters I'm not as familiar with. They have a whole thing for the MCU, and the character list is here, with some characters with a lot of info. having entire pages devoted to themselves (including Tony and Stephen). I'd also check out their "fridge" pages for the individual movies (Iron Man, CA: TFA, Doctor Strange, Infinity War, etc.) ("fridge" here meaning something like an epiphany about the brilliance/horror/stupidity of a certain plot, character, scene, motivation, etc.)

read other fics to see how other people write characters and see what you do and don't like, what does and doesn't feel right to you. I'm not saying to outright plagiarize from other people, but it can help you get a feel for character traits, motivations, history, how they talk, etc.

and finally, in spite of everything I said before about doing research and looking things up - don't be afraid to do something that deviates from all that. especially if you're writing an au! If it makes sense for your story or world to make Tony shyer than he is, do it! If you want to make him an asshole for the character development, do it! No one's paying you, might as well have fun with it

#asks #writing advice #writing #fanfiction #mcu #marvel #mcu fanfiction #fandom #incorrect-ironstrange

[bettsfic]

do you know anything about like, the development of the purity rhetoric that now seems to be ubiquitous in fandom and how it got there? i used to be on tumblr in like, 2014 and only recently came back to fandom and i remember everyone being generally kind of cool with things like incest ships and morally grey characters (speaking specifically re the frozen fandom and elsa/anna here lmao) whereas now it seems like the conversation about those things has drastically shifted and i am..puzzled by it

this is what i imagine that experience was like for you:

according to fanlore, purity culture started in the homestuck fandom which. based on what i know of homestuck, that tracks. however i’ve never been in homestuck so i’m not sure what that transformation was like. all i know is my personal experience with the disk horse. afaik there’s no cohesive timeline of events across fandom, and i lack the time and resources to be able to make one myself. if anyone knows of one, or wants to make one, please let me know.

i do know that purity culture is a movement started by very young teenagers, who were maybe 13-15 in 2014 and are now 18-20. they were 8-10 when ao3 was founded, and therefore seem to have a limited knowledge of fan history, censorship, and critical thinking. i’m hoping that since they’re now entering college, they’ll get some insight and broader social awareness, and this movement will finally die out in the next few years. 

on any other platform, at any other time, their toxic rhetoric would not have gained traction. but here and now, on tunglr dot com where anyone can gain a platform, where mob mentality thrives and inciting an anonymous dogpile is as easy as hitting Post, where the brokenness of this place makes it difficult to control the content you’re exposed to -- it’s the perfect storm. we live in an age of hopelessness. young people grow up with social media as an extension of their identities, tethered to devices that hold all the information in the world. i think it’s fair for them to be afraid of their futures, and i can understand the desire to control the online spaces where they have the most agency, where their voices are the loudest. 

that may explain why, but not how. as in, where did they pick up this mentality at all? @freedom-of-fanfic (whose work is a necessity in understanding the disk horse) connected anti-shipping to TERF rhetoric. i’ve linked the fanlore page because it has all of the links and some of the responses. i honestly do believe that the language surrounding purity culture has its ugly roots in TERFdom. at its core, purity culture -- the policing of female and queer sexuality -- is misogyny. 

when i started writing destiel circa 2014, fandom was as you described. wincest was a juggernaut on par with destiel. teen wolf was full of underage and noncon. a/b/o was on the rise. it seemed like fandom was a genre without restraint -- anything you wrote, if it found the right audience, would be celebrated unabashedly. people who have been following me for a long time know that i was addicted to adderall at the time and pounding out all sorts of manic nonsense. i remember living on the validation of comments (and at the time, there were lots of comments. not so much anymore, but that’s another story). i got critical comments only rarely, and they were the type that i admired -- readers without judgment thinking through the story, reacting to it earnestly. i made some of my best friends because they left long, critical comments on my work. sometimes they didn’t like it, sometimes they did, but ultimately, they were engaged, and that’s what counted.

i remember my first policing-type comment, i think at the start of all the purity nonsense. it was a destiel fic, and someone very angrily told me i should tag my bottom!cas because it was triggering. i’ve thought about that comment a lot over the years. top/bottom discourse is nothing new, but to say that bottom castiel is triggering? that was ridiculous. but then i realized -- there was a writer in fandom at the time i won’t name, who was known for being extremely sensitive (for bottom!cas especially, which they found triggering), and their very dedicated following offered fic that was safe for their fave to read. i have nothing against this person at all. they were not part of the purity discourse, they were up front about their sensitive nature, and as far as i knew (i believe i met them at a con once?) they were very kind. 

but that commenter had been clearly influenced by this person and believed that a specific fictional character receiving anal sex from another specific fictional character was actual, real triggering content, and it was my obligation as a writer to tag for it. which i did, because i felt bad, and i was baffled by that request. at the time, i wanted more than anything to be liked, and conformed wherever i could. if i got such a request now, i would ignore it because it was rudely written and honestly kind of bonkers. i’d happily add a tag for something i may have missed, or even something i’d never considered before, but there’s no reason a person can’t make that request politely. 

this situation isn’t about purity discourse proper (the commenter didn’t tell me not to write the fic, and it had nothing to do with morality), but it’s the earliest example i can think of where the process of policing had occurred: a person of influence on tumblr affected their follower’s thinking, and that follower felt entitled to command another writer to conform to that ideology.

i could be completely wrong about making these connections. maybe that commenter truly believed bottom!cas was a legitimate widespread trauma. they did not say the fic was triggering to them, but that it might be to some other people, in the same way purity police say “think of the CHILDREN” when in fact they don’t give a fuck about children at all. 

after destiel i moved to stucky, which was, at the time, a juggernaut ship where anyone could write anything. this was also the time when the term “cinnamon roll” became incredibly popular, circa 2015. it was a fun and seemingly innocuous meme, but it positioned the ideas of “purity” and “wholesomeness” in sharp relief, and cemented these ideas by beginning to give it a distinct vocabulary. “trash” was pitched as its opposite. stucky is where i first came into contact with “antis.” in destiel, there had been ship wars, sure, but it was of a different flavor than antis. destiel vs wincest wasn’t about morality in 2014. it was about everything but.

in stucky in 2015, however, the disk horse was running rampant. the MCU had a sub-section of fandom called HTP (hydra trash party) in which steve and/or bucky have dubious or nonconsensual relations with various or many members of hydra. this is the first time i remember being aware of morality becoming a cornerstone of shipping. HTP was loathed by purity police. by the time i wrote a stucky bdsm au, i’d accumulated multiple nasty anons, rude comments from entitled readers, and other nonsense that all said the same thing: your filth is not welcome here in our space of purity. go away.

but the release of the force awakens is what really turned the tide. TFA offered three major ships: stormpilot (as it was called at the time, now finnpoe), reylo, and kylux. the fandom that developed around the sequels was firmly divided. franzeska wrote an amazing meta about this phenomenon which gives some insight into the seeds of purity policing. in short, stormpilot should have been the primary pairing of the sequels, but instead many of the badwrong writers from other fandoms (and HTP specifically, which was how i entered the fandom) flocked to the blank slate of kylux. 

it took a long time for the ship to gain traction. a friend told me that kylux had started with angry star wars racists who hated that there was diversity in the sequel trilogy. and i told them no, i was there, there were twelve of us and a cornchip, and all we cared about was the dirty/darkly comedic potential of these two ridiculous villain characters in one of the biggest franchises of all time. it wasn’t that complicated. i don’t mean to dismiss the discussion of race in fandom; i think it’s important to acknowledge that racism, as franzeska describes far better than i can, plays a huge part in fandom, particularly in star wars, and it’s an important and ongoing discussion to be having, especially given what kelly marie tran has gone through, and how it affected (presumably) rose tico’s extremely limited presence in TROS.

the early fics of kylux weren’t particularly taboo. they were post-TFA hurt/comfort mostly, then slowly the bdsm and power dynamics crept in. those of us who wanted to get away from purity discourse had finally found a new home. for a while. 2016 was the golden era of kylux. we were all very happy.

i remember talking to a friend about how there were certain things i couldn’t write in certain ships. being from ye olden days of fandom, she was appalled by this idea, and told me i could write anything for any ship i wanted, wasn’t that was the whole point of transformative works? and i agreed! but i tried to explain, if you post badwrong for a fandom of purity police, you’re going to, at best, get dogpiled in your comments/inbox. at worse they will find you, call your employer, and try to ruin your life. people will tell you to kill yourself. they’ll report your tumblr and try to get your blog shut down. there are real-life, harrowing consequences to writing taboo fic, and many who write fic as a hobby don’t have the emotional energy to field these risks.

around this time, discord became popular, which offered a private space for badwrong writers to congregate. i had started grad school and didn’t have much time to write fic. metoo was happening. tromp got elected. kylux was slowly turning mainstream so a lot of us turned our attention to gradence in fantastic beasts. some went on to hannibal and other fandoms that hadn’t yet caught the attention of purity police (but it was, as it is now, just a matter of time). kylux, i feel, was specifically decimated by a single fan creator, who was like a police chief. they would get wind of someone writing underage or noncon and write a call-out post about them, and that writer/artist would get pitchforked. a few times, my comments or posts got screencapped, and posts were written urging people to stop reading my works because of how heinously immoral i was. this happened to several of my friends too. 

the great tumblr tittyban of 2017 happened, which only added fuel to the fire and further legitimized the purity movement. i shifted hesitantly to the 100 fandom, which seemed small in comparison to supernatural, marvel, and star wars. i thought it was a chill place. i was wrong; it was just as toxic as other fandoms. but i also didn’t care anymore, and i appreciated that i was mostly left alone. more importantly, i found a lot of support from other people who were as tired of the purity as i was, and @the100kinkmeme was reborn. 

the state of things is pretty abysmal. there are some really amazing writers out there writing under multiple sock accounts, keeping their fandom identities shattered so as not to call attention to themselves. as much as i understand why writers do that, and i respect that decision, i also think it’s sad. it deprives readers the chance to read that author’s other works. it limits the sense of community and our ability to make friends. it fractures the future of the genre.

what’s most important to acknowledge is that none of this is happening solely in fandom. i went to a writers’ conference where 2 of 3 panels were about the history of moral policing and censorship in art. it is worth noting that of the 40-ish visiting writers on faculty, only one (1) was a woman of color (jaimaica kincaid). naturally, older rich white people who have spent their life in the arts are all about death of the author, separation of art and artist. they’re on the total opposite side of purity police, and they won’t acknowledge at all that racism and sexism are a problem in the creative world. they don’t have any nuance on the discussion, or modern perspectives in light of metoo or popular culture. 

this went on longer than i anticipated. i neglected to mention YFIP (your fave is problematic) an old blog that started the idea of call-out culture by pulling receipts on celebrities, and how call-out culture led to cancel culture, which also aided in the purity disk horse. i think a lot can be said about how some of this stuff is genuinely good (metoo and holding men accountable for their bullshit) while also being profoundly toxic (punishing criminals via mob mentality, ruining their careers and livelihoods through social media, rather than giving them their due process in court. i understand it -- the judicial system is built by the hands of the very predators we seek to condemn, but still. the jury of the internet is never a fair trial). 

if you want to read more, my tag is tsatp (the sacred and the profane). i’m sure i’ve left out a lot, but i can only speak to my experience. i think it would be good if people would share their experience dealing with purity policing, too, so we might get a cohesive timeline in place. feel free to reblog and add your story.

#tsatp #my fic #Anonymous

[iamnmbr3]

Ok but real talk. Even without the serum, if skinny!Steve heard that Bucky was captured behind enemy lines, he still would have been determined to walk to Austria to save him.

#my post #my meta #meta #stucky #steve rogers #bucky barnes #ca: tfa #MCU #Marvel #steve rogers/bucky barnes #captain america #captain america the first avenger #skinny!Steve #stevebucky

[sparrow30]

3 Fandom Facts

I’ve been tagged by the lovely @yakoucchu​ and this looks super fun, so lets give it a go!

RULES: choose any three fandoms (in random order) and answer the questions. Then tag some friends.

I choose - Glee - Captain America - Yuri on Ice

The first character you loved - [Glee] Kurt. I’m pretty sure it was the moment he and Rachel battled it out with Defying Gravity that I fell in love with him and the show. Before then Glee was a fun guilty pleasure, after then ... I was hooked.

- [CA] I actually think the first time I watched Captain America I fell in love with Peggy before anybody else!

- [YOI] Yuuri. Come on, he’s the narrative focus and he’s adorable - was it really ever going to be anyone else?

The character you relate to the most - [Glee] Hmmm, this is a hard one! It’s actually really hard to remember what all the characters were like before the later seasons turned them into exaggerated caricatures of themselves (#stillbitter). I’m gonna go with Sebastian, because I always find him the easiest to connect with emotionally when I’m writing, and I know that’s a total cop out because he’s in like...four episodes, but shhh!

- [CA] Spiderman in civil war? I think he shows exactly the right amount of excited awe that I would if I was in his shoes!

- [YOI] Yuri. Definitely. We both have too many emotions for bodies that are not nearly large enough to hold them all!

The character you’d slap -[Glee] Rachel. Dear god woman, you’ve just landed your dream job as the lead in a musical at eighteen, and now you’re complaining about how monotonous it is?!?

-[Captain America] Tony in civil war. Not hard to pick a side on that one! 

- [YOI] Probably JJ. I don’t actually dislike JJ as a character, but the boy definitely needs to learn when to just. be. quiet!

Three favorite characters (these are in order of preference): - [Glee] Sebastian, Kurt, Blaine

- [CA] Bucky, Steve, Natasha

- [YOI] Yuri, Otabek, Victor

A character you liked at first but not so much anymore: -[Glee] Will. I’m pretty sure the entire fandom agrees that no character has ever experienced a more sudden or more abrupt fall from grace as William Schuester

-[CA] Dum Dum Dugan. The bowler hat was fun for a while. Then it got tiring.

-[YOI] I refuse to answer! They’re all my precious babies!

A character you did not like at first, but they’ve grown on you: -[Glee] Sebastian. I hated him just as much as everyone else when he popped up on screen and tried to break up Klaine. Then fandom got its claws into me and now I see the terrible terrible error of my ways.

-[CA] Captain America. I know, ironic right! Seriously though, the first time I watched TFA I was decidedly meh about the character as a whole. Then TWS came along. Then I started reading all the amazing meta the fandom has come up with over the years. And the rest, as they say, is history.

-[YOI] Chris. His ‘Mature Eros’ performance made me SO uncomfortable the first time I watched! It still makes me uncomfortable to be honest, but fandom has convinced me he’s a sweet summer child who is just a little bit too forward, so I forgive him.

.3 OTPs: - [Glee] Kurtbastian

-[CA] Stucky

- [YOI] Otayuri

(I don’t think any of those will come as a surprise!) This was fun! I tag @pepperroxd, @wingsofwriting and @lilinas next!

#3 fandom facts #fun stuff

[naivelocus]

Molecular demultiplexer as a terminator automaton

Cell culture and MTT assay

K562 human chronic myelogenous leukemia suspension cells were cultured in 25 cm2 culture flasks containing DMEM (Gibco, 11971-025) supplemented with 20% fetal bovine serum in a cell culture incubator at 37 °C, 5% CO2, and 60% humidity. The main functional goals of the current study are to study the cytotoxicity of T-1 under illumination and its staining ability of the apoptotic cells. Since phosphate in the growth media can interfere with experimental results, we used DMEM w/o phosphate supplemented with 20% fetal bovine serum that has been dialyzed extensively at 4 °C against isotonic saline (0.15 M NaCl) using dialysis tubing (Sigma-Aldrich, USA (D7884)), since the viability of the cells cultured in such conditions is known to be not hampered for periods even more than 24 h28. This cell culture medium was also utilized for analyses with flow cytometry and confocal laser scanning microscopy to study cytotoxicity and cellular staining.

The compound was diluted in cell culture medium and assay concentrations were freshly prepared. Cell viability/death was evaluated by MTT assay. Briefly, 50 µl cell suspensions in culture medium containing 3 × 104 K562 cells were plated in 96-well flat-bottom culture plates (Corning, MA, USA) and incubated for 12 h to recover from handling. Varying concentrations of the chemical compound in cell culture medium were added into each well (the final concentrations were 187.5 nM–1.5 µM) in quadruplicate. The experimental group of the cells were illuminated with a green light source (λ = 522 nm light-emitting diode array, 98 µmol m−2 s−1 photon flux, distance between light source and cells: 10 cm) for a continuous duration of exactly 12 h in a culture incubator (37 °C, 5% CO2, 60% humidity). This 12 h period of illumination was followed by 12 h of incubation solely in the dark (total 24 h) also in the incubator. The control group of the cells were incubated in the dark, for the exact duration of 24 h under identical environmental conditions except illumination. According to the assay protocol, 25 µl of the MTT reagent (Sigma-Aldrich, MO, USA) was added to each well in order to assess cell viability (final concentration: 1 mg ml−1) at the end of the 24 h of incubation period. Following 4 h of incubation of the cells with the MTT reagent, the generated formazan precipitates were solubilized by the addition of the lysing buffer (80 µl, pH: 4.7), which is composed of 23% sodium dodecyl sulfate (SDS) dissolved in a solution of 45% N,N-Dimethylformamide (DMF). After an overnight incubation at 37 °C, the absorbance values (of each well) were measured at 570 nm in a microtiter plate reader (Spectramax Plus, Molecular Devices, CA, USA) at 25 °C. Cells incubated in culture medium only (without the compound) served as the control for cell viability both for the illuminated plates and for the ones kept in the dark; whereas dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO; 50%, v/v) was used to observe maximum cell death (positive control). Cell death (%) was assessed with the normalization of the values calculated by the formula 'optical density (OD) of control cells − OD of treated cells'. The CC50 values of the compound under illumination conditions were estimated by fitting a model with non-linear regression.

Flow cytometry

Illuminated and control K562 cells (in the dark) were stained with PE-Annexin V, as described in the technical data sheet (BioLegend, USA), and were analyzed by FACS Aria II (equipped with 488 nm and 635 nm lasers) using FACS Diva software.

Confocal laser scanning microscopy

Illuminated and control (dark) K562 cells were analyzed under a confocal laser scanning microscope (Zeiss LSM 510 META, Germany) at the excitation wavelengths of 488 or 543 nm to view the green (T-1) and red (PE-Annexin V) fluorescence, respectively, in order to investigate the correlation of staining of the cells with T-1 and Annexin V; operating in the sequential (multitrack) excitation/recording mode to eliminate a possible cross-talk between the channels with recording the fluorescence signal in the green (BP 505–530 nm) or red (LP 560) channel. Annexin V serves as a sensitive marker for detection of cells that are undergoing apoptosis. Images were captured at a magnification of ×63, 1.4 numerical aperture objective and a scan speed of 400 Hz.

Synthesis of T-2

TFA (0.22 ml, 2.87 mmol) was added dropwise to a vigorously stirring solution of 4′-formyl-2,2′:6′,2”-Terpyridine29,30 (0.5 g, 1.91 mmol) and 2,4-dimethylpyrrole (0.473 ml, 4.58 mmol) in 500.0 ml argon deaerated dichloromethane (DCM). The resulting solution was left to stir at room temperature in the dark for 1 day. p-Chloranil (0.47 g, 1.91 mmol) was added in one portion and reaction was left to stir for 2 h. Diisopropylethylamine (8.0 ml) was added dropwise to this mixture over a period of 15 min, and the resulting dark brown solution was allowed to stir for an additional 30 min. BF3.OEt2 (8.0 ml) was then added dropwise over a period of 15 min and the resulting dark red solution was allowed to stir at room temperature in the dark for 1 day. The slurry reaction mixture was washed with water (3 × 300 ml) and dried over anhydrous Na2SO4. The solvent was evaporated and the residue was purified by using neutral Al2O3 using DCM: Hexane (1:1, v/v) as the eluent to afford compound T-2 (0.37 g, 40.4%). 1H nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) (400 MHz, CDCl3): δH 8.70–8.73 (m, 4H), 8.57 (s, 2H), 7.92 (td, J = 1.9, 7.6 Hz, 2H), 7.37–7.40 (m, 2H), 6.01 (s, 2H), 2.60 (s, 6H), 1.56 (s,6H). 13C NMR (100 MHz, CDCl3) δ 156.4, 156.1, 155.3, 149.4, 145.3, 142.8, 138.8, 136.9, 130.5, 124.3, 121.6, 121.1, 120.6, 30.9, 15.2 ppm. High-resolution mass spectrometry (HRMS) (time-of-flight electrospray-ionization (TOF-ESI)): m/z: calculated: 479.22019, Found: 479.22179 [M + H]+, Δ = −3.21 ppm.

Synthesis of T-1

A sample of T-2 (0.05 g, 0.10 mmol) was dissolved in 3.0 ml DCM. Triethyleneglycol monomethyl ether (0.168 g, 1.0 mmol) was added to the reaction mixture which was stirred at 45 °C. The reaction was started with the addition of AlCl3 (0.031 g, 0.23 mmol). The progress of the reaction was followed by thin-layer chromatography (neutral Al2O3, DCM:MeOH [98:2, v/v]). When all the starting material was consumed, reaction medium was cooled down to room temperature and filtered. The filtrate was concentrated under vacuum and the residue was purified by using neutral Al2O3 using DCM: MeOH (98:2, v/v) as the eluent to afford compound T-1 (0.068 g, 88.3%). 1H NMR (400 MHz, CDCl3): δH 8.75–8.70 (m, 4H), 8.54 (s, 2H), 7.95–7.90 (m, 2H), 7.41–7.37 (m, 2H), 5.95 (s, 2H), 3.66–3.54 (m, 2H), 3.39 (s, 6H), 2.59 (s, 6H), 1.52 (s, 6H). 13C NMR (100 MHz, CDCl3) δ 156.6, 156.2, 155.4, 149.3, 146.1, 144.5, 141.1, 140.7, 138.3, 137.0, 131.2, 124.3, 121.5, 121.2, 120.8, 96.4, 73.1, 72.3, 71.9, 70.7, 70.5, 70.4, 60.7, 59.0, 15.3, 14.9. HRMS (TOF- ESI): m/z: calculated: 789.39940, Found: 789.40056 [M + H]+, Δ = −1.47 ppm.

Data availability

The authors declare that the data supporting the findings of this study are available within the article and its Supplementary Information files.

— Nature Communications

#Nature Communications #Molecular demultiplexer as a terminator automaton