This is definitely what happened.
Loki: can i marry Sigyn?
Odin: bless you.
Loki: did you hear that, Sigyn? he blessed us!
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ok but the idea of jonah referring to himself in the third person is now making me imagine him saying this whole post out loud musingly
and then peter probably rolls over like ‘it’s 2 in the morning. who cares who you are? it’s all meaningless anyway. go to sleep’
It’s interesting to think about how Jonah views himself in the bodies he takes.
Like, does he view Elias, James, Richard, etc. just as vessels and masks while his conciousness is the only thing that is him?
Or does he become Elias? How does he refer to himself in his own head?
He’s so used to referring to himself in the third person (“Jonah Magnus did [x]. He was [x].”), does it take him a moment to recognize that someone is referring to him when they call him by his name (does anyone call him by his name anymore)?
How has his perception of self changed over the years? Does he have a true perception of self anymore?
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I’m very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very tired.
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The problem with showing Loki as really powerful is that this would raise the question as to why he has never been seen using his powers like that in the MCU before.
Although... it's not like anyone really seems to care about continuity anyway, so...
There are a couple different approaches to dealing with this issue. (The show so far seems to have opted for none of these options and instead just de-powered Loki further. The poor guy has been reduced to fighting with a roomba!)
1) Make it part of the plot. Maybe Odin locked Loki's full powers when he locked him into his Aesir form, in order to make him easier to control. TR's new take on Thor's powers and Mjolnir made me wonder whether in-universe Odin might have tried to tie Thor's power to the hammer in order to prevent him from getting too powerful and being able to challenge him.
2) Explain it with the context of past canon appearances. When Loki fights Thor he's not going all out because he doesn't want to kill him. Thor is also holding back. Those fights are more about emotional confrontation rather than a full-on duel to the death with both using their deadliest abilities. Remember in TDW Loki did actually fight and defeat Odin. It just happened off screen. So presumably in that fight (which we were tragically robbed of) he did call upon his full abilities...and triumphed against a very powerful opponent.
Also, Asgard has a warrior culture that doesn't appear to respect magic that much so it makes sense that when possible Loki wouldn't use his full range of abilities and would only use them to supplement his more traditional fighting methods (so that would explain what we saw in the fight on Jotunheim for example). The show could've even had an arc about Loki coming to accept himself and his abilities and learning to use them and be proud rather than trying to conform to Odin's ideas of what worthiness means.
3) Take the usual Marvel approach of 'lol continuity?! don't know her. friendship with old canon ended. retcon is my friend now!' And you know what. Just this once I would've allowed it.
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My brother named the Loki of the series "Luky" bc it sounds similar to the original and for someone who doesn't bother listening, it may even sounds the same. I think he has a big brain, what do you think?
lolllll. your brother has a bigger brain than anyone at disney. that's for sure.
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I apologize for making it sound like fandom policing. I get triggered by some of the things the fandom does, but what bugs me the most is when someone ships something and gets mad at me for NOT shipping it. I believe in "ship in peice" meaning, ship whatever don't it doesn't give anyone the rights to get in someone else's face for not sharing their opinion. I guess I should have phrased it better.
Ah no worries! <3 And yeah it is definitely 100% ok to be squicked by a ship for any reason. No one should ever feel obligated or pressured to engage with content they dislike or that makes them uncomfortable. And curating your own fandom experience so that you engage in the ways that make you feel comfortable and that are enjoyable to you is a great thing to do. As long as we are all respectful of each other fandom can be a great place for everyone. I don't get antis harassing people over ships. But I also equally don't understand what is wrong with people who demand that others ship something they do or interpret a character a certain way. Both are equally unacceptable.
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I think it could also just be his efforts at getting to the truth. I think if he did say “why did you lie” she might very well just respond by saying she was only carrying out Odin’s wishes.
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At this point I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if the few times we've seen Loki fight in the trailers, or looking like he's about to fight, end up actually being the only times they have him defend himself and/or use his skills lol. 🙃
Disney: We heard you guys didn't like Loki being de-powered and going up against Thanos with a butter knife. Well now he's even more de-powered and he doesn't even get a knife. He gets a roomba. That'll teach you guys to shut up! Remember. It can always get worse. :))))
also is it just me or did the fight choreography in the trailers look weird? loki should move with the practiced elegance of a warrior. we see that in Avengers and also in his fight scenes in other movies. but in the trailer fight scenes his movements feel less practiced and controlled. and the scenes look more like a regular guy fighting than a trained warrior.
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In my opinion the bubblegum scene would have been funnier if Loki took a piece, recognizing it as candy, and chewed it up for just a few seconds before swallowing it, Mobius responds, "Wait, you're not supposed to swallow it!" and Loki snaps, "Why not? It's candy, is it not?" and Mobius is like, "Yeah, but it's gum! You don't swallow gum." and Loki rolls his eyes and says something like "Why would anyone invent a candy you spit out?"
aslkjdfk why didn't the show hire you? oh right. because you're actually funny.
there are so many potential fixes for that scene. but that woudl require having someone actually edit the script...and having it be written by ppl who can write lol. (also. consider that given Loki's formidable biology his stomach is far strong and he can actually digest gum with no problem).
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"I would be thrilled to have even some background Loki content. I'd take 1 hour of Loki or even half an hour of Loki, over 6 hours of Larry."
I would even take a refinished release of all Loki's deleted scenes. Pretty please can we have OG Loki back?
please! Also some of the unused footage from TR seems to have a version of Loki more in-line with the og characterization so maybe they can throw that in too? pretty please with a cherry on top? I just want some Loki content and so far all I've gotten is that Hyundai commerical.
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Why does this fandom insist on shipping Loki in toxic as hell relationships? Loki x Thor, Loki x Grandmaster, Loki x Mobius.
I'm tired of this shit!
I have to say. I very firmly believe in ship and let ship. I don’t believe in fandom policing and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with exploring dark or problematic or morally complex topics in fiction. If ‘problematic’ ships aren’t allowed, why should anything else problematic be allowed? Better get rid of any fics that portray violence or death or immoral actions too right? Better ban it in mainstream media too. No more Star Wars guys, bc war is bad. No more Macbeth because being a despot is bad. And hey better ban Death Note too, because what if someone reads it and thinks murder is ok? And better ban Wuthering Heights because oh no, it depicts a twisted and toxic relationship. And if you’re mad about thorki you better be equally mad at George RR Martin for writing a story that depicts incest and at HBO for airing it.
I don’t mind dark content or morally complex content at all. But there’s a reason that a dark fic is called a DARK fic. It’s intentionally dark. Contrary to what antis might imagine, the writer and readers are all aware of this fact and are specifically trying to explore dark themes and content.
My issue with Loki/Mobius is not with people shipping a dark ship or with people making fluffy AUs of a dark ship. My issue is that I find it concerning how many people, regardless of whether they view it as platonic or romantic, are characterizing Loki and Mobius’s canon dynamic as healthy and fluffy. Mobius is not Loki’s friend. He’s his captor and his torturer and he is complicit in the TVA’s horrific acts of genocide, murder, police brutality, etc. etc. and their mission to end free will. And he has a lot of power over Loki right now since he’s enslaving him so that is not a positive or equal dynamic at all in canon. The reason a lot of people are characterizing it that way is that that is how the show presents it. People are therefore encouraged to accept Mobius’s behavior as acceptable when it’s not and this is a very toxic and harmful message that I think Disney is very irresponsible for perpetuating it.
Ultimately it’s not up to me to decide what people can and cannot ship or how they should interpret it. Fandom policing never leads anywhere good. What I’m focusing on is the problematic messaging in the show itself and how it promotes harmful attitudes by encouraging people to view scenes of torture as therapeutic for the victim.
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You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain.
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Great analysis. He doesn’t want it exactly but at the same time he feels hurt and angry and resentful because he was never considered for it, because no one wanted him to have it or considered him worthy even when Thor was dangerously unready. He didn’t want it but he didn’t want to be considered less worthy than Thor. Especially in Thor 2011 when Thor was still problematically reckless, rash and immature and Loki was far closer to being what a future heir should be and couldn’t understand why no one saw that or cared. Odin was furious with Thor’s hotheadedness and yet net he never showed any sign of appreciate for Loki’s much cooler head or more thoughtful approach. Even when Thor was disappointing him, Odin still never seemed to see his second son or value him. And inside Loki burns with confusion and hurt and resentment over it.
I think Loki very much did want the throne l, for the same reason Thor wanted the throne: he was a prince, and princes are trained from birth to want thrones.
I dunno. I don’t think he wanted it that much since he offered it to Thor in Dark World. He also says in Thor 2011 that he never wanted the throne and the fact that he goes out of his way to just try to delay Thor’s coronation rather than permanently stop it either by displacing him in the line of succession or outright killing him lends weight to this. Also remember he never expected Thor to be banished or for Odin to fall into the Odinsleep so he had no reason to expect to end up on the throne in that movie. Similarly, in TDW he had no reason to think Thor would turn down the throne.
That said, I do think it’s a bit complicated because while Loki may not crave the throne or power per se I think he does crave being Thor’s equal and receiving the respect and validation that Thor constantly gets. Part of that is being considered worthy of the throne. So in a sense I think while he doesn’t want the throne itself he does want what it signifies.
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even if you break me a thousand times, i will come back to you
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I firmly believe all film critics are paid off these days and avengers endgame having above 80% on rotten tomatoes is all the proof I need
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I've never really thought of Loki in a critical sense but after seeing your posts about him it hasn't left my brain. I do have a question tho, we know Loki doesn't want the throne but *why* doesn't he want it?
Yayyy! Join me in the pit of Loki brain rot. xD Seriously tho I'm so glad you've been enjoying the analysis posts about him. Loki has definitely taken over my meta tag lately.
Now, as to your question. Utimately I think the simple answer is that what Loki really wants is acceptance. He doesn’t have a grand agenda that he wants power to achieve. And he’s not selfish so he also doesn’t want power in order to gain access to perks. He just wants to be seen. And he wants to be loved and valued in the way Thor always has been. And I think he especially wants Thor’s regard and respect. If he could have all that, what would the throne matter to him?
But yeah. To answer a bit more in-depth. I think there are a couple things going on. (As is usual with Loki!) Partly, Loki doesn’t want the throne because he has been raised as a second son knowing that it isn’t his to inherit and for all that Loki acknowledges Thor’s many flaws in ways others cannot or will not, he also sees his strengths. In Thor 2011 he believes in Thor enough to think he can do better, and to think that he can be a good king one day. Despite all the resentments and difficulties and bad blood between them, Loki does love his brother and he does admire him and I think he believes in Thor’s ability to be a good king and he’s not willing to take away Thor’s rightful position either by displacing or killing him.
Even in the beginning of Thor 2011, although Thor is very aggressive and warlike, those traits are accepted and encouraged in his society; compared to others Thor has many positive traits - for example he doesn’t seem to have the bigoted attitudes towards humans that are apparently common in Asgard given that Odin likens Thor’s relationship with Jane to romancing a goat. So I think Loki saw in Thor the potential for kindness and growth. I think Loki felt that Thor could be better than he was, and better than the friends who just encouraged his worst traits. He knew Thor would be a dangerous king in that moment and tried to delay his coronation, but he saw his potential.
Although Loki resents Thor and doesn’t blindly view him as without flaw I think he too is to some extent dazzled by him. So much of his identity is tied up in the idea of needing to measure up to Thor and in viewing worthiness only in terms of how close he is to being Thor that I think to some extent he couldn’t imagine anyone else actually being on the throne. Of course, at the same time he feels a contradictory sense of resentment because he is never seriously considered despite having many skills that Thor lacks (especially in the beginning of Thor 2011) and he is also keenly aware of this fact.
I also think he doesn’t want the throne because it’s not how he likes to operate. I think he simply doesn’t have that particular ambition. Not everyone wants to hold that kind of power. He wants respect and love and in that sense he wants the throne for what it symbolizes, but he doesn’t want the throne itself. If he could have all the approval and adoration that he craves and be viewed as Thor’s equal, just an equal skilled in different ways, I think he’d be happier acting as an advisor and a diplomat rather than the actual ultimate authority and head of state. If Thor valued him and encouraged the rest of the Asgardians to also treat him with respect, I think Loki would be perfectly content.
On a more practical and sadder note, I think Loki knows that he would have a hard time being accepted on the throne. Loki’s strengths are not appreciated in Asgardian society and he doesn’t appear to be well liked. He’s not the kind of person the Asgardians want as their king so it’s not something he ever really planned to seek out. And btw that’s why I think he makes it a priority to rehabilitate his image with that play in Ragnarok. I know it’s intended as a joke, but it actually makes a lot of strategic sense. He knows if he is ever going to be able to drop the illusion and rule as himself he’s going to need to change societal attitudes about him. (And to his credit he doesn’t try to make up a false narrative. Instead he presents the truth, including his heritage, but tries to change how people perceive it.)
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now im just imagining an AU where Loki really does manage to kill the Grandmaster and he’s already succeeded by the time Thor arrives on Sakaar. so Thor shows up to find Loki ruling over Sakaar, watching a play in the former gladiator ring (now converted to a theater) dramatizing how he defeated the Grandmaster and subsequently liberated the slaves. and Loki’s just like ‘about time you showed up’ and Thor, who of course doesn’t know about time passing differently on Sakaar is just like “???! How ?!?!?!” bc as far as he knows he and Loki fell only minutes apart. Loki finds this way too amusing to immediately disabuse him of this notion.
who asked for a Loki “ruler-of-sakaar” version? no one?
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"Give it some time! It's only the second episode! The series just started!" Okay but... not really. It's episode 2 of 6. That's one third. Next week it will be half over. It's fine to reserve judgement (I prefer that route myself) but I think complaints about OOCness, lack of magic use, or whatever else, are also perfectly reasonable.
Oh absolutely. I think a lot of people forget that the point of entertainment is the be entertaining. It's not an obligation. This isn't a duty or a job or a religion. I don't owe Marvel anything. I am the customer. A show is supposed to be entertaining - sad or scary or funny or dramatic or complicated or whatever it is I seek to get out of a specific work. If I'm not entertained I'm not gonna watch and I shouldn't have to. Don’t let anyone guilt trip you or harass you into feeling otherwise. Fandom is a hobby and tv shows are entertainment. Engage or not as you want. You should never feel you HAVE to watch a bad comic book show.
Most people make a decision whether to watch something or not based on the trailer or the beginning of the first episode. I want to see a Loki show. I don't see Loki in this show. I see a bad slapstick parody of the character I found so fascinating and emotionally evocative. Why would I watch that?
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