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trashlie · 1 year

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Manifesting Stalkyoo~

Just to get it out of the way: PLEASE KNOW THIS IS ALL IN GOOD FUN! I don’t want anyone to take this in a weird way or like it’s some ridiculous demand I’m making lmao. I’ve just been having a delightful time talking to other Stalkyoo shippers and just romanticizing silly things we want to see so again: THIS IS JUST FOR FUN! I know fandom has been weird about shipping stuff because of the... ugly past lol so I feel a weird need to remind people that my shipping is just secondary enjoyment of ILY and that I will continue to love and read ILY wherever it goes.

With that out of the way lol please also note there are spoilers all the way up to 224, so if you don’t FP episodes, this post is not safe for you! (unless you like spoilers. i don’t judge people, I like spoilers, too)

Look, I’m not good at writing fanfiction. I’d love to, but I always feel like it’s difficult for me to portray characters the way the original writer does. I think about it, every now and then, dabble in a little idea, something I might like to see, before the storyline plays out in a different way, but I just never trust myself, so this is about the closest I ever get to that. And even still, I think of these little musings, these silly little “oh I’d love to see ______” very inline with fanfiction, wherein I acknowledge that what I’m hoping for or imagining is very likely to not happen. It’s just the fun of exploring story and the what-if’s and little AU tangents where ONE little thing tweaks.

For me, the fun of shipping is just playing with those character dynamics, which is another reason fic is so difficult for me - I enjoy my pairings, my characters, within their circumstances. That’s not to say AU fics are unfathomable to me (I LOVE THEM), but more so that it’s hard to write something knowing that I don’t know everything, that quimchee will pull out a surprise and I’ll be like oh my god I should have realized! And again, I guess that’s where musing is fun. You get to play out those little what if’s for yourself, get to imagine a scenario that probably will never come to pass. That’s the fun of fic + canon, to me! Not once has quimchee done something with her characters and their story that really surprised me in an “oh i don’t like this” kind of way. I can say “Oh I’d love to see xyz scenario play out” but when instead abc plays out, I’m not mad.

I also fully admit that I tend to compartmentalize my shipping thoughts and whims separately from my general commentary, and I guess for the previously mentioned reasons: this fandom has an ugly, nasty past with shipping and even still, there are a lot of people who demand romance from ILY and don’t seem to care about the actual story at play or even weirder, seem to think that it detracts from the romance they think should be happening???? (”when is she going to choose one of the brothers it’s been so many years and episodes waaaah) And I guess, yeah, I get a little self-conscious, because (and this is feels so embarrassing to actually word) I acknowledge a lot of people read my commentary and my opinions! And I’m so happy for that, I love being so communal with everyone! But I do get worried someone is going to take something out of context and be like “omg can you believe she’s one of those weirdo romance demanders” or something lmao, hence this weird long useless diatribe. But yeah, basically, I’ve been talking with people lately and god just thinking about my shippy feels and how much I love the current story - one step forward, three steps back; the struggles to open up; the struggles to deal with feelings in the face of much heavier, scarier elements; etc. etc.

Sometimes you just wake up and you’re like: I WANNA SCREAM ABOUT STALKYOO so you do it because you have a birdbrain and you know is screaming afljkfkjafkjakfjaf LMAO

If you’re reading this, chances are you aren’t new to my blog so you’ve probably read the likes of my Foundations of Stalkyoo, Why I Ship Stalkyoo, and Further Thoughts on Stalkyoo (I just never shut up huh) posts, so I’ll try not to like, completely repeat everything but if it happens well. It can’t helped, can it? lol

Anyway something I’ve been talking and thus thinking a lot about is where we stand with Stalkyoo, now that we are getting more confirmation of actual budding feelings. I always reiterate that anything can change, but I also like to remind myself that something quimchee has said in the past (and this is loosely paraphrased) is that whenever it does come to a pairing, it will be made obvious before it gets there, because this is NOT a primarily romance-focused story which means there aren’t as many storylines that deal with just the will-they/won’t-they and the likes, and I think likewise, there won’t be a real love triangle the way most fans tend to think of them. So often a love triangle gets boiled down to someone being torn between two people for whatever reason and i just don’t get the sense we’ll be seeing that? Thus, I do feel like we might well be moving into a territory where we will see some kinds of scenes setting up, or maybe better put, enabling the possibility of a relationship between Shinae and Nol?

But first. I always say I don’t really try to predict things because I’m always proven wrong, but I still like to try for fun lol, just because that’s part of the joy of reading an on-going story, I think! I’ve waffled a lot on it, but I still feel like when we reach our big time skip (not the first one taking us to graduation, but rather the one that jumps us a few years ahead), there has to be a REASON. Narratively it’s hard to imagine what that reason might be beyond the likelihood that we’ll see our three main characters on separate paths. It’s the only thing that makes sense, because otherwise you end up with a lot of story happening off page, right? If Shinae were to go to Japan with Kousuke, we’d end up missing their reconciliation and Kousuke earning her trust (or if it were to go the opposite, becoming cold acquaintances). Thus, I think Kousuke will go to Japan, but Shinae will take Rand’s advice begrudgingly and take up Yui on her “offer, while Nol will probably go to college abroad. He wasn’t denied admission to Oxford - it’s just not guaranteed there will be a spot for him.

I know people take umbrage with the idea of Shinae taking up Yui’s offer, but hear me out. I don’t think it’s meant to turn Shinae into some kind of conniving, cunning person in the likes of Yui, as much as just introduce her to this world, give her a better understanding of how people in this society and business work and thus, start to get an idea of how Yui works. While I don’t think it’s easy to ever be one step ahead of Yui, I do think developing an understanding of her world helps to at least defend herself from Yui - start to see traps in advance and how to avoid them, find ways to evade her clutches, that kind of thing. I do think the idea of Yui holding that over Shinae’s head is terrifying and it’s feels more dangerous than going to Japan with Kousuke, BUT again, the idea is that she would become better equipped to defend herself and fight back.

Of course, I don’t think Shinae in this moment is prepared to make that choice, and it may be a choice that comes after Yujing’s big scoop is revealed. Perhaps realizing how much more dangerous and powerful Yui (and the Kims) is would make her see what Rand was trying to tell her. I think she hasn’t fully figured out just what is going on with Yui and Rand, either - why would he be pushing her against his wife? But I think the information Yujing has compiled could help her see that bigger picture. If someone like Rand has spent twenty-five years struggling in this battle with her, how could Shinae ever hope to stand against her with even less understanding, with no sense of WHO Yui is or what makes her tick.

The thing about this that I always struggle with is: how would Nol regard that? We know he feels vehemently about Alyssa idolizing Yui and taking advantage of her connection to the Hiraharas - and yet he stayed with her, knowing that she benefits from him (but that he does, as well). Would he feel the same, if he found out who was enabling Shinae to go to school? Would they talk about it, since Shinae knows how he feels about it? Would he be able to understand, when even he himself doesn’t seem to realize that his father finds himself trapped by the Hiraharas? That’s... stuff I can’t try to predict, because I think everything is possible.

I promise I’ll get to that a little more.

The narrative benefit of separating the main characters is, of course, that first off, no major development happens where we can’t watch it. Sure, they’ll go about their lives and things will happen, but I don’t expect it to be major things that would make us go WAIT WHAT?! Otherwise, what brings us back itnto the story after time passes? For a long time my idea was that they’d all go their separate ways and maybe even their relationships would be a little damaged, so that when they come back into each others’ lives, part of the story is recovering that, reconciling with the past and maybe finding new futures together.

Especially regarding Nol and Shinae, I’d wondered if we would see him leave without reconciling with his friends, and that we’d see him and Shinae meet again after some years and Shinae would have to contend with their unresolved past, with feelings she never had a chance to really identify, let alone explore, and the aching beauty of having to figure out who each other after now that they’ve grown and changed, and if there is room in each others’ lives for one another, if they fit in with who they’ve become. And don’t get me wrong - i do like that kind of bittersweet ache, haunted by the ghosts of what never came to be, having to relearn each other. But the more I’ve talked about this (especially a lot with @bittrbuttr, the more I realized that’s not exactly what I want with them.

Like, it’s good and achey, it really pulls at your heartstrings. But I think that better suits an actual romance story, where the focus of the story and plot is on those feelings and untangling them, on finding their ways back to each other. I don’t think that’s the story of ILY, though.

I keep dancing around my point and I apologize, but we all know I’m nothing if not circuitous and I promise we’ll get there!

Here’s the thing: we know that Nol and Shinae are not in the space to become romantically involved. The feelings are there. They are drawn to each other, we know Nol finds comfort and peace in Shinae and that he always struggles to really push her away. We know that Shinae cares so deeply about him that no matter how much he hurts her, she still wants to try, she still wants to be there for him. I find the hope-tinged pain of 223 really poignant in that way - she wanted to SEE HIM, in a moment that was so special, she wanted to share that joy and get a glimpse at who he REALLY is, and he was unable to do that for her. But still she hopes for the best, still she intends to keep trying, to be as persistent as he was, even if she has to find a different approach.

They are so important to each other, and I’m hoping that might be a catalyst?

I understand what Nol’s struggle is. It isn’t easy to be vulnerable, to feel weak, especially when those parts of him have been used against him the last 6 years of his life. He is full of so much self-loathing and isn’t comfortable with his own weakness and vulnerability, thus he can’t show it to Shinae, he doesn’t want her to see him like that. He’d rather let her think he just doesn’t need to see what exists between them, that he doesn’t need to see her indulging because it’s enough to just bring her joy - and that itself hurts enough! But I want him to at least be honest about it - tell her that you don’t want her to see that part of you. Will it change things? Probably not significantly, but it puts her one step closer to understanding doesn’t it?

And so the thinking is - or rather, the hope - is that maybe Nol will realize this?

We see some of it in 224. Upon Dieter’s arrival, instead of a hey welcome back or anything, it’s an immediate “Did you bump into Yoo?” and when Dieter reassures him that she’s fine, it’s just stuffy, he knows a. it’s not fine and b. he feels bad. I think he felt that regret immediately, when he noted that she’s angry and he took off the blindfold and she wasn’t there. Nol is so used to pushing people away, it’s his first line of defense, but when it works? When he succeeds at driving that wedge? Again it’s that battle of will vs want - he thinks that pushing her away is the right thing to do for her sake, but he doesn’t ACTUALLY want it.

It’s so difficult to go back to how things used to be having gotten a taste of something better. It’s so difficult to push out everyone when you’ve allowed yourself to indulge in being loved and cared about, and and I think that’s what Nol’s biggest hurdle is.

Don’t get me wrong; there’s a lot of hurdles with him lol and clearing one doesn’t exactly make the others any easier to clear. But something we’ve seen from Shinae and that I think the story has tried to impress upon is that things are easier when we aren’t alone. Burdens shared are burdens that weigh a little less. We’ve Shinae and her father talking about being a team - about sharing that burden so it’s not so hard for just one of them and distributing that burden more easily. We’ve seen it in Shinae opening up about her problems with her friends, her insecurities that made her doubt her friendships. Her realization that as scary as situation as her sister breaking into her home was, it was made more bearable with a ragtag group of goofs who will protect her.

Nol needs to learn to share that burden. He’s spent so long treating himself like an island, he hasn’t had the opportunity to remember that it’s easier to endure something when you aren’t exhausted from shouldering that burden all by yourself. There is strength in numbers. He’s been so run ragged from just trying to endure, trying to get by, trying to survive and how is he to ever fight back against Yui when he’s exhausted just from treading waters?

I mean, ultimately Nol needs to learn to love himself, but I think it’s easier to tackle allowing others to love him, first. Allowing himself to share the burden, to show those weaknesses and let people have his back. Be able to slump over and know that someone will help keep you standing, you know? And maybe through that, he can find it in him to start loving himself. Of course, he has other problems he needs to address; in order to love himself, he has to forgive himself, and I hope that Yujing’s article can help in that area. I’m sure he carries the guilt of his mother’s alleged suicide, and maybe he was even made to believe that. It wouldn’t surprise me if the time he spent in the mental facility only served to make him feel worse about his existence, made him believe he was the root cause of the bad. Maybe even, like Nana, he had an argument with his mother before he death and felt that if they hadn’t argued, maybe she would never have made that choice?

Clearly that’s still a little complicated for us to fully dig into, but as horrible as learning that maybe her death was not a choice she made is to learn (I cannot imagine having made this peace with someone I loved reaching a point so dark they made that choice, only to find out that it was, possibly, murder. How do you deal with that? What do you do with all that new grief, that new anguish?), I think maybe, if he learned that she didn’t choose that, it might help free him from his shackles of guilt.

But I think until he can learn to forgive himself, until he can make that peace, couldn’t letting people love him help? Wouldn’t it be better for him to move forward knowing that he has people who will not only defend him, but who can ease the weight of his burdens?

As dramatic as Nol and Shinae separating on these rocky grounds, unable to fully reconcile, makes for a good, dramatic romance, I think it’s much better for Nol to move on as a team. To let himself rely on others isn’t something he can learn over night, of course, but isn’t it better for him to enter a scary phase of his life knowing that there ARE people who he can talk to about it? There ARE people he can eventually let see those weak parts of him?

So my ultimate hope for Nol’s extension is that in that time, he and Shinae find that peace after all. I still can’t help but feel like the three-day-extension is significant, because why else include it, if it was to pass without event? Especially because, depending on how it works (is it 3 additional days INCLUDING the 22nd or 3 days extra, beginning the 23rd?) we’ll hit the holidays. That just feels... too significant, right?

I want Nol to grapple with his feelings, let his fear take over a little. Is he really as ready to lose Shinae as he tries to be? He seemed to regret hurting her, hanging his head after Dieter reassured him she was fine, even though she refuses to come back in to the room. And I can’t help but feel like it’s significant that she’s still lingering in the waiting room. My thinking is that Nana will get involved - she knows that Nol is upset about someone, she knows other friends have been watching over him, she knows there’s a friend who isn’t coming back in. She can read him well, so it’s not like it’s difficult to read that maybe they had a fight, that he was brusque and brushed her off the way he tries to do even to Nana. Will she go out there to see who this friend is? Will they talk? I feel like they HAVE to - not just because the fandom has waited for it, but because I think Nana can probably glean that Shinae (”Yoo” lol) must be someone important, if he’s acting like that.

And look. Did Nana see the blush? *I* saw the blush, I’m not getting over that. I’m sorry but he lmao pushed her away, regretted hurting her, and he’s still getting flustered because he pictured her mouth. BUDDYYYYYYYYYYYY. YOU’RE A MESS.

I don’t expect her to fully intervene in like, trying to make things happen way lmao I think it’s more like... Nana knows better than anyone that Nol is a difficult person to love. I say this with affection, because it’s true. He pushes people away, he deflects from himself, he never opens up, it’s hard to read what’s going on in his head. And Nana also knows of the darkness that looms. She was right there when he pleaded guilty, concerned about his reasoning. She’s listened to him talk about how maybe everything would be better if he didn’t exist. She knows that the darkness has a strong grip on him. So who better than her to encourage Shinae, to thank her for her patience and tenacity, for sticking with Nol even with the way he acts? I’d like to see a little bit of that comfort between them, some reassurance that Shinae is, in fact, making the right choice. She oscillates so wildly between her extreme emotions; sadness and melancholy that caring is not enough and how it sometimes comes out as anger when she can’t find a better way to channel it. We know she doesn’t really regret planning that birthday celebration - she’s just hurt. And I think it would be a big help to have Nana tell her how much it means to see Nol with friends who care about him despite how prickly and difficult he is, how she worries about him and is glad there are people who care about him. I think it would really encourage Shinae that her resolve is right - that she just has to find another way to approach him, that it’s worth the effort.

And at that same time, yes, I want Nol’s fear to kick his ass. I want him to realize he faces the very real reality of losing someone who cares so much about him, who is willing to put up with him because of how much she cares and how special she is to him - and that she wants him to see it, too. I want him to fear losing the comfort and peace she brings him. I want him to have to finally face head on his want vs what he thinks he deserves, and see what a future without someone like her is like. Can he bear to return to that kind of loneliness? Can he bear losing her concern? How it feels for her to take notice of him, to probe, to listen?

Like, at the risk of getting really corny and dramatic, that’s what it comes down to. I don’t want Nol to come back in a few years and decide he’s ready to face all of that. I want him to move on from this point knowing he’s not alone. I want him to be able to face prison knowing that he’s not so alone, that there is someone who will always be there to support him. I think that’s what makes the most sense. Leaving on their current circumstances works great if it’s a romance and that’s the main story - but making up, talking, being honest? That makes more sense for THIS story, where Nol starts to grow NOW, where he starts to make those important steps that will help him find his way to healing, and more important, that will help him face the forces that taunt and haunt him.

He doesn’t have to be completely honest with Shinae, because I don’t think he’s ready. I don’t think he’ll tell her that his mother took her life, and that he believes it’s his fault. But I think it would be enough to tell her the truth he couldn’t stay to her face - that he doesn’t want her to see him like that, that it’s still hard for him to open up that way, that it’s still SCARY - but that he doesn’t want to push her away, that he’s sorry he keeps hurting her. We could even go more dramatic with a callback to the hospital scene - that he’s sorry he isn’t good enough and is undeserving of her (AND LET HER REASSURE HIM THAT’S NOT TRUE THAT HE IS). BUT JUST. IDK I WANT HIM TO FACE IT. ADMIT IT.

He doesn’t have to tell her he likes her. That’s fine. Just reiterate what she means to him! One moment he’s telling her she’s special to him, that he cares about her, next moment he’s telling her it’s okay he doesn’t have to look he’s fine like this. STOP JERKING HER AROUND ;~; lmao like don’t get me wrong. I GET IT. I UNDERSTAND HIM!!!!!!!!!!!

But I also want to see them move into our time skips with a sense of understanding and peace, you know? I don’t want want Nol to face his fears alone anymore. I want him to let someone stand by his side. I want him to accept how good it feels to rest on her shoulder and know that it’s okay, she’s there.

I HAVE FEELINGS OKAY I JUST. I WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO FIND T HAT STRENGTH IN EACH OTHER, TO BE STRONGER TOGETHER.

And to call back to my earlier point lmao I like to think if they get to that point, then maybe he would understand, if Shinae accepts Yui’s offer. Maybe he would see how it’s different from Alyssa, that Shinae made a choice to protect herself, that it’s not about the idolatry, it’s not a self-serving choice, but one that protects her and enables her to fight back. Knowing that they are on the same side, that Shinae isn’t a doe-eyed naïve girl about to be taken advantage of again, but one who wants to fight back against the people who hurt her and others like her.

We’re about halfway to 3/5 of the way into this story, and I think that’s a good point for Shinae and Nol to join forces.

AndlookthisiscompletelydaydreamingbutiftherewasaChristmaskissIwouldcertainlynotobject

PLEASE I JUUUUUUUUUST i want to see them on the same page, I want to see them moving forward TOGETHER. I don’t want Nol to keep walking on his own. I don’t want him to just accept Shinae at his side, either; I want him to CHOOSE to let her choose his side. ;A;

GOD. PLS. BARKS AT THE MOON I’m just ready for them to bE A TEAM I’M READY FOR NOL TO BE SELFISH AND TO GO AFTER WHAT HE WANTS I WANT HIM TO CHOOSE COMFORT AND SECURITY OVER PUNISHMENT I WANT HIM TO REALIZE THERE IS STRENGTH IN COMPANIONSHIP. I know being close to him puts her at risk - but he needs to see that no matter what, she’s at risk, and isn’t it better if she’s in danger with someone who can help, than to be all alone with it? I WANT HIM TO FACE THAT FEAR OF HIS AND FIND THAT MAYBE HIS DESIRE, HIS WANT, HIS NEEDS ARE EVEN BIGGER. That it’s better to find peace with her than spend the whole time afraid. Isn’t that the thing? He’s always afraid - afraid of someone else getting hurt, afraid of another opportunity being stolen away, afraid of the next time Yui will find a way to hurt him. BUT TO BE ABLE TO FIND COMFORT WITH SHINAE?

Please. Just open up - be honest!!!!!!! But most importantly APOLOGIZE. Apologize for hurting her, apologize for pushing her away.

I realize, based on what she said on the hospital roof, that maybe he won’t make that choice, that maybe her persistence has to be a long game, that she does have to wait for him to forget to put the mask back on.

But wouldn’t it be so nice if he chose to move forward with her, instead of alone, to face their nightmare and battles together? ;~;

#I Love Yoo #ILY Brainrot #ILY FP #ILY Spoilers #Stalkyoo #Aegi #Shinae Yoo #Nol #Nolan Oliver T. Lochlainn #LMFAO THIS IS SO LONG-WINDED but i think no one is surprised anymore?#I just!!!!!!!!!#i have this very specific want in mind and if it doesn't happen that's okay because i'm sure it will lead to a better story lmao #BUT I CAN'T HELP BUT LIKE. WANT THIS PARTICULAR THING TO PLAY OUT for the sake of the story #for the sake of the second season #for the sake of what it means to fight against those who harm others just for joy #i'm such a firm believer of shinae and nol being a team and i want to see them be a team together FOR REAL #i want to see nol find it in himself to lean on shinae and find how much stronger he can be if he doesn't have to shoulder a burden alone #it's so much easier to share the weight together when you aren't the only one to carry it right?#and when you aren't run ragged just from sturviving #when you have the time to rest and recharge knowing you are safe #aren't you able to become even stronger?#to face even more?#I JUST WANT THEM TO BE A TEAM ;A;

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trashlie · 10 months

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heyooo it's lil anon again 😼 sorry for disappearing for a while. hope you've been well, though! <3 i'm glad you enjoyed my shinae powerpoint headcanons, your reaction made me smile so much my cheeks hurt LMAO

on anti-hero nol, i'm actually 100% with you! i'm a firm believer in "living well is the best revenge" and i *need* to see this character heal and find peace :( </3 it's just the possibility of it hanging over his head that appeals to me; him coming close to tipping over, being aware that he could go down this path and would have all the reasons and justifications to do it, but then still choosing not to. but yeah hopefully he doesn't cross that line and becomes a dying star like you put it so beautifully ;A; what do you think of the possibility of him becoming the ceo btw? there has been some foreshadowing, but personally i don't see current nol being happy in a position like that, he hates this entire environment too much. also i just don't like the idea of him becoming a venture capitalist lmao ;; that patreon post of the trio post-timeskip and nol being dressed in casual clothes (instead of business-like like shin and kou) kinda aligns with my thoughts, but i know it's very flimsy lol. also crazy thought but walk with me for a second. capitalism being evil aside, what if in a turn of events shinae becomes the ceo instead? wouldn't that be wild for SO many reasons? listen, chances are low but never zero! 😋

re: alyssa... first of all, thank you for your detailed commentary, i completely agree with what you said about her circumstances, sexuality, need to fit in etc. and it's great that you like her and are optimistic about her, i genuinely mean it! the main reason i don't vibe with alyssa is that she uses people as stepping stones to climb higher and never lifts them up with her. for example, when she started hanging out with more people in middle school, she could've used her "improved" social standing to help shinae. she could've introduced her, been like "hey this girl is actually really cool guys give her a chance". but instead she started ignoring shinae, basically tried to get rid of her when she didn't need her anymore. yeah, she kind of defended shinae once, but that's not enough for me. you can say maybe she feared losing her new status, or was scared of her feelings, or was simply too immature, but i think she really should know what it's like to be an outcast, what it's like to be alone. and it bothers me that she basically just left shinae behind when she moved up. same thing when she met nol/soushi/dieter; she latched on to nol to benefit from his family and then started ignoring him, doing the bare minimum to not lose that connection. we've never actually seen her with soushi/dieter. i wouldn't be surprised if she's never even contacted them after becoming a trainee/mingling with the upper class. her desperate need to fit in and aspiring power are meh but understandable, but it's the lack of gratitude and empathy that just bothers me :// like these are all people who were kind to her when she was at her lowest, yet this is how she treats them? she just... takes it all for granted and never gives back? some might say she doesn't owe them anything, but to me, it's just basic decency. not to sound cheesy, but... climb the ladder all you want, just don't forget who was there for you when you were at the bottom :/ and yeah i'd still love for her to free herself from yui and grow as a person (and ideally end her comphet era), but i also wonder if there's even space for major alyssa development...

i also saw your recent post on the entire shinae dieter nol/romantic development thing fiasco and hoo boy you are so right. tbh what also really bothers me (on top of the hypocrisy and ableism) is how people tend to strip female characters of their agency 💀 like... how about we let shinae have her own preferences and make her own choices, even if it contradicts with what we'd personally do in her situation? instead of inserting ourselves via her and simultaneously centering everything around the guys??

this might ruffle some feathers. while i respect everyone's preferences, concerns, and opinions, it seems to me like some people who vehemently want shinae and dieter to be canon (or want nol and shinae to stay platonic) just... don't see the bigger picture here. like, nol and shinae are supposed to be the counterpart to rand and nessa. they're supposed to break free from yui and achieve the happiness rand and nessa tragically couldn't. in the context of the full story, them being lovers has a significant narrative purpose. don't get me wrong, i really don't believe that *all* ships need to have a narrative purpose, or that it makes a ship better, not at all! and it doesn't mean everyone has to *like* this ship, but it's important to understand that there is a reason why it's these two characters and not anyone else. i know this is very meta and i don't blame readers for not seeing the parallels (yet) because the hints have been very subtle, but once you realize it, you just can't unsee it... and sure, i don't know how the story will go, i might be completely wrong. but i'd be surprised if quim misses out on the opportunity to explore this parallel after setting it up. idk. what are your thoughts?

oh gosh, i talked so much again. alright. peace out - lil anon 😼

AHHHHH Lil Anon!!! I've missed you!!!! I hope you've been well! I got so excited when I opened tumblr and saw a new message notification because I was so hopeful it would be you! I haven't been able to pull myself together to talk about the recent episodes (which is a shame because I am LOVING them!) but I think this is gonna give me the head space to do it, now!!! Sometimes you just gotta dip your toe in and then the full brainrot goes STRONG!

what do you think of the possibility of him becoming the ceo btw? there has been some foreshadowing, but personally i don't see current nol being happy in a position like that, he hates this entire environment too much.

BOY DO I HAVE SOME THOUGHTS! I'm very much with you, here. Just like I'm not into the idea of Nol being an anti-hero and his story being about revenge, I can't see him becoming CEO. I think people want it because the whole taking from Kousuke what he wants*, defying Yui's intentions, the David and Goliath of it all and I get that but - right. I want Nol to live WELL, I want him to live HAPPILY. I don't want him in a career that he doesn't love the way Kousuke has been, I don't want him in an environment that doesn't appeal to him. And maybe we're wrong - maybe there's a part of him that feels comfortable and will thrive, but from what little he's said of it, when he told Shinae he doesn't feel like it he fits in to this world really he's just putting on that mask, playing that role, it makes me feel like it's not his ideal setting. And, yes, I have considered the Patreon illustration as part of this. I know this was work for a client so we can only glean so much from it - is she really using it as a glimpse of the future? I like to think so!

But something I've been thinking a LOT about re: this current arc is that we will at some point see Nol, Kousuke, and Shinae as a team. I've always thought she's going to be that bridge, but I think Nol and Kousuke themselves are going to find their ways to peace and healing.... but it's gonna be a long road lol. But something I've been talking about with another reader is that we could have the trio set up where Kousuke acts as a double agent and Corporate World Shinae is the eyes and ears for Nol who I think may not join in the corporate world. Now, I can't be more detailed about how I think this would work because I am not a corporate person at alllll lmao but I think there's something soooo satisfying about the idea of Kousuke following the path Yui intended, but to turn around and use that power to dismantle her. Could he (and Shinae) quietly amass allies? Could he enact policy change that would somehow oppose her or her methods? Where does Nol come into this? Look idk I gotta see what the future holds LMAO but I've come to really love this idea of them being a team beneath Yui's nose, of Yui's little creation taking everything she taught him everything she instilled in him and using it against her lmaoooo

Hear me out, okay? I know right now it seems like Nol has wiped his hands of Kousuke, has said too little too late that's not changing. But Nol is under the impression that Yui loves Kousuke. He's under the impression that Kousuke has always had his needs met, that she'd do anything for him, that she has always treated him like a prince. But we know now that's not the case. We can see that Kousuke never had that warm, loving relationship with Yui that Nol had with Nessa. And with the theory that Yui has been drugging Kousuke become more and more likely, I think Nol will have a change of heart whenever things come to light, whenever he realizes that Kousuke, too, has been very much a victim of Yui, that he was denied things that even Nol had for a short time. I don't think it means immediate forgiveness, but I think Nol would be able to find a formidable ally in someone who also cannot trust Yui further than he could throw her, who has been used and neglected by her.

There's a lot I hope for with the tragic siblings lmao. Nol has always felt Kousuke was the favored one, the one lavished in love when his was taken away. But Kousuke had always felt that Nol had the easy life, that because he didn't have to earn Rand's love (because he thought Nol had once done it) his life was easy, no burden or expectations. But once they both get that out of the way, once they see how the other has lived? What could be more glorious than the two people Yui set to make enemies of each other teaming up to destroy her with Shinae?

I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT!

That said I've never considered the idea of Shinae as CEO! Like Nol, I don't think it's quite something she'd want - I really just. Like the idea of Shinae helping people, but if she's going to stay in the corporate world like we think, then what would she be doing? Would she remain as Kousuke's assistant? Would she find that she has strength in something else? I'm really curious to see what her path is, because I don't know if this is going to be a "discover a strength you didn't realize you possessed" kind of deal or a "stay in this world so that you can defeat the evil and then figure yourself out" kind of thing.

Since Nol intended to follow in Rand's footsteps - was it his own empty hope that maybe he could make Rand see him for who he is, to be proud of him for once? or is it that this IS what he wants? Is that what he's going to do after prison? I'm so insatiably curious about this part of the future - where will everyone be? What are their intentions?! That image on patreon lives rent free at the back of my mind lmao like it's just SO intriguing to me, and how Nol seems so lax compared to Shinae but they're still linked to each other? I WANT TO SEE THE FUTURE SO BADLY!

When it comes to Alyssa, don't worry, I definitely get this! Like... there are DEFINITELY reasons to dislike Alyssa - I just always ask that people who dislike her dislike her for those reasons lmao like. I feel like so often she's gotten dislike simply because she "stands in the way of a ship" (which is... lmao hard to argue at this point of the story).

but i think she really should know what it's like to be an outcast, what it's like to be alone.

I think this is why I really want to see the story go to a place where Alyssa does have that fall from grace - where Sarah Lee of all people brings up bullying allegations and Alyssa's fans turn on her. Both because she has to, at some point, realize that conditional love is not going to fill the void she's trying to fill, and yes, because at some point if she's to grow, she NEEDS to contend with being alone - really alone, with only herself. I also agree that we may not have that in this story. I know I've discussed this before but it's very likely there are characters who won't see a "redemption arc". I just hope we get to see her grow, that maybe if she faces what she's been so afraid of, she'll finally see what she took for granted, what she didn't appreciate. I don't think it's likely that she'll win people over as fans lol but I guess I just acknowledge that I enjoy some really messy girls so I can't hold that against others who don't lmaoooo Alyssa is one of those characters who I think I'm as critical of as I enjoy, because what makes her so fascinating to me is the ways that she is uhhh... not a great friend, not a great partner lmaooo but I can't help but want to see her do better, be better. But I genuinely don't think it will happen unless she can find that comfort with herself.

And I guess that IS the thing about why I like her - there's something so very human about her that even if I don't approve of what she does, even if I hope for her to make changes, I understand why she is, and why she may never. But look, I acknowledge I'm a very hopeful person for some reason hah!

like... how about we let shinae have her own preferences and make her own choices, even if it contradicts with what we'd personally do in her situation? instead of inserting ourselves via her and simultaneously centering everything around the guys??

The funny thing about this is - this is how shipping has ALWAYS been. I know I was guilty of it when I was younger, too. I'm not even sure when I changed, but just that I was one day very aware of shipping debates that went "Well, I just don't think he's very masculine and I personally don't like him so I ship her with the other guy" and right like at that point... go write your self-insert fic, friend! That's clearly what you want, that's okay! Go write it! Shipping is fun and I'm not going to accuse people who get very into media for shippy reasons for reading for the wrong reasons or something, but right like... at the end of the day is it about YOUR preferences or is it about what makes most sense with the characters?

Like, I know whenever I talk about my shipping feelings I always preface that frankly, I don't think Shinae and Nol are in the place FOR a relationship right now. Nol is still trying to hide his feelings, Shinae isn't aware of hers. I think ultimately when people ship things, they ship them in a best case scenario. Like, shipping them doesn't mean I NEED them to confess and start dating right now - it means I hope that eventually that outcome may be, but I'm enjoying their interactions, I'm enjoying how they affect each other, I'm enjoying how their relationship affects the story.

And yeah! From a meta point, it's really clear that parallel has been set in motion. And definitely, shipping based on literature device is not a reason TO ship - but I think it just plays into what makes them shippable? Because yeah we see them mirroring something that was ultimately tragic, something with a ripple effect so vast it's caught all of these people in the waves, and we want to see it go differently. We see Nol falling into his father's footsteps whether or not he realizes it and we want to see him stop that, we want to see the generational cycle ended. And as a device it works BECAUSE of what they mean to each other, what their chemistry is. It gives us an idea of what Rand and Nessa were like, and we end up hoping that Shinae can be to Nol what Nessa couldn't be to Rand. What could have happened if they'd been able to be a team, if they'd been able to deal with the obstacles around them.

And that's what makes a story! If a story was meant to be about the easiest routes, the "safest" or "healthiest" routes, would there be any story? And I say safest or healthiest that way because we don't know that Dieter and Shinae WOULD be any healthier. Like, yeah Dieter is straight forward about Shinae and he doesn't have a reason to hide or deny his feelings. But by virtue of being a more well-adjusted character, it's likely to be harder for Dieter to understand or deal with Shinae's particular baggage. It's not just about if one half of this relationship is "stable" because Shinae, too, has baggage. That's why we see Nol and Shinae drawn to each other on that emotional level even when they don't realize it right away - Shinae understands Nol's skittishness, why he pushes people away and isolates himself, because she's been there. Likewise, we've see that he understands when she isolates herself, when she put her walls back up to him and he made her take them down.

There's so many things I could - and maybe will one day - write about how the thing about Nol and Shinae is that they operate on the same frequency. Dieter provides security, that's definitely true. But security is not the end all of relationships, and it's not what everyone seeks, either. To some people, that's too safe, too healthy lol.

But right, between the writing acknowledging that Nol and Shinae operate on the same frequency, how they're able to understand and accept the way the other is and the very obvious parallel to Rand and Nessa set up, it's clear that this route provides more story. Again, like you said, that's not a reason TO necessarily ship something, but the set up is done not in spite of what Dieter and Shinae could be. It doesn't sacrifice a chunk of story for nothing, you know?

idk I have a lot of thoughts that maybe I'll get down one day but right, that's what it really comes down to. The parallel between Nessa/Rand and Shinae/Nol wouldn't work as well if they didn't have that chemistry, if they didn't respond to each other the way they do. It's the way Shinae continues to try to reach him even when he tries to push her away. It's the stupid way he tries to push her away but has that tendency to fold. It's the way she brings him that comfort and peace, and how he brought out of a part of her she was too afraid to ever let out again. I don't think I'd be much into the pairing at this point if it seemed to me that Shinae had no stock in it, if it didn't have pay off for her. If it was constantly being hurt with no sign of him ever changing? But she herself has made the resolution to keep trying, to find a new approach, to break down his walls like he did for her. And frankly? She's never really seemed to like things coming to her easy has she alfjkfakjfaj LMAO

At the end of the day, it's about Shinae's choices. It's not about what is healthiest, what is more stable, who has hurt who. It's about who want to be with each other \o/ It's fine to be disappointed if she doesn't end up dating Dieter, but yeah, it feels weird for the discourse to end up being "Dieter liked her first" or "He's more stable" instead of it being "Oh no poor Dieter, it looks like Shinae has developed feelings for his friend :(" or something that allows her to have her agency.

(Also I hate the "so and so liked them first" because it also removes the agency of the other person. Dieter liked her first, it's true, but if he wound up liking his friend, and his friend wound up liking her, does that mean they can never be together? Dieter will not be hung up on Shinae for the rest of his life, I am sure. In the same way that Dieter has been comfortable and secure for Shinae, I think she was similar to him, too. She made him feel seen. And there will be others who will make him feel seen, too. His heart will heal and he will be okay. Acting like it's a cardinal sin for Nol to have inadvertently developed feelings is so afljkakfjjkaf? If he could control his feelings that way, then he would have used to that control to not care about them like he so badly wanted to lmao. If he could control his feelings, he would have done everything in his power to stop! alfkjkafkjafjkf see this is why I'm gonna wind up writing an essay one day. YOU THINK NOL INTENDED TO FALL FOR SHINAE?! He only just realized that's what's happened lmao you think he schemed for this? You think he pointedly did things to make her like him so he could "steal" her from someone she isn't dating? YELLS)