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#I feel relatively the same for different versions of the same character
cyber-streak-2 · 1 year
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For the character bingo:
Tarantulas (any or all continuities) 😏🕸️
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duke-daemon · 4 months
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hazbin hotel redesigns wooooooooo
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okay so. i'm gonna discuss my thoughts about them n shit, putting under a readmore bc it's gonna get long and rambley. sorry in advance for the shit formatting, i'm on mobile </3
just some general shit about how i would rewrite it. i think the premise of redeeming sinners is entertaining but is executed horribly. i also am a fan of the "heaven isn't great either" idea but again, executed horribly. i'd make the hierarchy of angels more accurate because it's cool as hell and i have autism about it. the characters from hell would swear still (albeit not as much), but the angels would outright refuse to swear or make vulgar jokes ever. this would be partially to further the gap between heaven and hell and make the differences more stark.
hell would also be more like dante's inferno (again because i think its cool). the ars goetia would get a full redesign and would be more prevalent in demonic society.
now for the characters!
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VAGGIE VALTIEL:
starting off with vaggie, or Valtiel as i've renamed her because let's be honest her original name sucks. Valtiel (Val for short) was an aspiring power angel who wanted to be an exorcist. she looked up to lute and thought the idea of killing demons was really cool and badass. however when she actually was on the field for the first time she discovered how awful this actually was. she tried to help a few demons but lute figured it out and felled her right then and there. the rest of her story is relatively the same. personality wise she's more stoic and less prone to all-out aggression. she still get angry, sure, but it's in a quieter and more menacing way. you DO NOT want to fuck with Valtiel.
CHARLIE:
next up is charlie! i had two ideas for her. the first one (unsettling drawing) has her as a mannequin/doll type demon. lucifer and/or lilith was unable to conceive and as such they built a kid from scratch. she's overall similar to og charlie personality wise, very kind and cheerful despite her unsettling appearance. she struggles with empathy sometimes but really does mean well. her motive for rehabilitating sinners is so they get to see their family again. being able to see heaven from where they are in hell must make them sad, so she wants to help make them happy again!
the second idea for charlie has her as an angel. specifically i casted her as a dominion angel due to their reputation as holy judges. she was once a demon but has been rehabilitated and has risen into angelhood! she now wants to help her former kin do the same and redeem themselves in heaven's gaze. again, similar cheery personality, but a bit more prudish in this rendition
tangent time!
as a side tangent, valtiel and charlie would have a different relationship in this rewrite. their relationship felt shoehorned in in the original show, like it was just there for the hell of it. we didn't see much development between them and it just felt kinda bland. so in my rewrite, charlie and valtiel are amiable exes. they tried dating when valtiel first fell (when charlie was still a demon in the charlie-angel version) but realized their feelings for each other were much more platonic than romantic. they ended things off on good terms, deciding they were much better as friends. they are still besties to this day! later charlie ends up with emily (or 'ellie' as i plan to rename her)
back to the characters
Alastor:
note: i made alastor mixed-race, which could be seen as bad by some due to vivzie saying he's black. however, as many have pointed out, he has no ethnic features whatsoever and i honestly wouldn't be surprised if she said that just to get away with using voodoo symbols (a closed religion) in his imagery/design. like viv, i am incredibly white and have little to no knowledge of voodoo, and even if i did i would not use it for something like this anyways due to the stigma the religion already has and (again) it being a closed practice. as such i removed it from his concept altogether, but made him mixed race (white passing) because.. why not i guess, i forgor my actual reasoning
with that being said...
alastor is by far my favorite of the redesigns and i'm honestly tempted to turn him into a legally distinct oc. i imagine he's somewhat reserved, along the lines of norman bates albeit a bit more extroverted. during his life he was a serial killer with a day job as a radio announcer. he took pleasure in reporting about his own murders on the radio, but that is eventually what got him caught (ie accidentally letting slip info that wasn't released to the public). as a result he was sentenced to death. upon arriving in hell, he quickly rose through the ranks to borderline overlord status and is a feared presence by demons and sinners alike. why is he bothering to assist in the hotel project? who knows... his motives are a mystery, like the rest of what he does
(he isn't actually alastair crowley i just thought the naming convention was ironic. however he may have also dabbled with satanic magic in lifetime..)
Angel Dust:
TW: brief discussion of SA
this is definitely my second favorite redesign. i loooove insect themes and wanted to do more than just Extra Arms, so he now has fucked up legs and a lot of eyes too! story-wise, angel used to be a criminal mastermind, hated by both the mafia and the feds. he was a gentleman thief, arranging massive heists under the cover of night while also partaking in the occasional drag show. he ended up a cocaine addict later in life, which caused his work to become sloppier. eventually he was killed in a heist gone wrong, specifically shot by the police.
i'm not gonna go too in-depth on the SA part of his story, but he is hypersexual due to being assaulted in both his life and afterlife. it would be something he'd be working on in the rewrite. his reason for coming to the hotel in the first place may have even been for help with this trauma. underneath his sultry exterior is a broken guy who really just needs someone to care about him for who he really is and not for what his body can do.
LUTE:
so lute and adam are some of the characters i have the most gripes about. the biggest one being why viv chose adam as the leader of the exorcists in the first place. if she wants a biblical figure tied to demon killing, Archangel Michael is RIGHT THERE, aka the one destined to kill satan during the events of Revelations. if she wants the first human to die, that would be Abel, not Adam. and i kinda doubt abel would want to do the stuff that HH!adam has been doing. if she wants an angel related to torture, Dumah is her guy! an angel that rules over wicked souls and tortures sinners every day except sabbath. so many better options...
with that out of the way, Lute is still the lieutenant of the exorcist, who are a specially chosen group of powers sent to purge hell once a year. think navy seals. she's pretty much the same as in the show, albeit more muscular and visually different from other exorcists (seriously why do they all look exactly the same?????) she's a very repressed lesbian who hasn't had time to work on that due to her duties
i also redesigned the exorcist uniform/armor because those LED purge masks are fugly as hell and their clothes don't even look remotely like armor.
Adam + Final Thoughts
i did start a redesign of adam but got bored of it. regardless, i think he'd be the head of C.H.E.R.U.B. instead of the exorcists. he doesn't want his children to make the same mistakes he and eve did, so together they started C.H.E.R.U.B. to help lost souls stay out of hell
final thoughts uhhhh i'm tired. show sucks, it had so much potential but viv ruined it by being a shitty writer and an even shittier person. the designs are fine i guess but they all look exactly the same and are in desperate need of variety. the humor is dogshit, saying dick and balls and penis over and over and over again doesn't make it any funnier than the first three times you made that joke. anyways that's it, i hope you liked my inane ramblings. gonna go vanish for another forty years or so, adios
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kirain · 1 month
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I saw a comment of yours about Ascended Astarion and I just wanted to say him sacrificing 7000 bloodthirsty vampires that can't control their bloodlust isn't a bad thing. If anything it's a mercy killing. People enjoy Ascended Astarion because it's cathartic for a lot of people who've suffered similar abuse. You lack empathy.
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I think you may have the wrong person, because I've never commented on ascended Astarion. The only time I've come relatively close was when I discussed Neil Newbon's stance on him in the comments of a viral post, where a Tumblr user got mad at him for saying, "Meh. He's not for me." And even then, I made it abundantly clear that I don't have a problem with people who enjoy ascended Astarion. I was more so defending Neil for having a preference, which he's allowed to have. Is that what you're talking about? Because I haven't discussed ascended Astarion anywhere else. 😅
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As for your comment ... what? First of all, an unconsensual sacrifice isn't a mercy killing, it's murder. They didn't want to die. Those innocent people—and yes, they are innocent; Cazador captured and enslaved them—don't simply die. As per the infernal contract, they go to hell. Specifically to Mephistopheles, the second most powerful and cruel archdevil in the hells. They will suffer for all eternity. That's not merciful. Personally, I'd rather be an undead spawn who has to drink rat blood every now and then.
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Second, if you feel that way about all those spawn, then you should keep the same energy for Astarion, because he's the same as them. The only difference is they haven't had a chance to live in the real world or learn to control their hunger. Now, I do agree setting thousands of spawn loose on the Sword Coast is a lot, and potentially dangerous for the living, but the Gur will keep an eye on them, as is their oath. If you let them go, you give them a choice. They're still slaves to their hunger, and they likely always will be, but they get to choose how to satisfy it. If they truly can't resist harming others, then the Gur (and paladins) will surely kill them; which sounds horrible, but at least they'll be spared a gruesome afterlife.
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Cazador took their choice away, as he did with Astarion. If they deserve to die, if they don't deserve a chance to prove they can live peacefully in Faerûn, then the same goes for Astarion. That's part of what makes his ascension so hypocritical. He's no better than Cazador, in the sense that he takes their agency away and uses them for the exact same purpose. Those spawn even could've been Astarion. He just so happened to be the "lucky" one who had a parasite crawl into his head. He's special to the player because we know him, but he could've been any of his siblings. He is all 7,006 of those spawn.
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I will admit I didn't ascend Astarion, as I personally think it's the worst path for him, but you have it backwards. I didn't deny him ascension because I lack empathy. I denied him ascension because all I have is empathy, and that extends to characters who aren't the main focus of the game. You do what makes you happy, but I don't think becoming the worst version of yourself is healing, and I care about Astarion (and the people around him) too much to watch him continue the cycle. Sebastian, Dalyria, Chessa, all the others trapped in the cages—they have names and they're victims, too. For me, the most cathartic moment of Astarion's quest was when he realised it and set them free.
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ladybracknellssherry · 5 months
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Good Omens Deep Dive Ahead! **I have edited and added to this several times now, but "ma point" has stayed the same. Probably every single reblog has a different version of this. It has turned into an absolute BEAST. You might be able to watch both seasons faster than read this at this point 😂😭
---------------------- Okay so I am rewatching S2 right now and golly. I've just noticed something. I'm sure it has already been noticed by plenty of other people so feel free to let me know, link me to some metas, please.
A lot of us have painstakingly analyzed every single frame, statue, clock tick, facial expression, and breath of the final 15. Good. Now we're going to look at the scene in S2E4/The Hitchhiker/1941 when Aziraphale and Crowley are in the bookshop doing their little pre-magic show warm-up roleplay foreplay bit. They're being surveilled by a bunch of half-witted nazi zombie spies. Aziraphale is trying to impress Crowley with his * m a g i c * Crowley is trying really hard to support his Angel.
The Blocking!
Keep in mind the camera angles are not quite the same between these scenes, the dimensions look a bit off because the lighting is completely different and therefore camera settings are different, and some of the furniture has moved a little bit in 90 years (but not much because Aziraphale)
1941 Crowley positions himself approximately / very nearly exactly in the same spot in the bookshop where present-day Crowley stops in the final 15 of S2E6 when Aziraphale says "Crowley, come back." The spot where shortly thereafter Crowley says the awful words that make us cry.
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1941 Azirphale with his little coins is standing in or very nearly in his same relative spot as in that scene, when present-day Aziraphale says "I need you," and "I don't think you understand what I'm offering you." And where shortly thereafter he says the awful words that make us cry.
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Then Aziraphale gets a touch insecure when Crowley suggests they go to the magic shop because it is "for professional conjurors," and Crowley responds with his "My Nefertiti Fooling Fellow" line of support and encouragement and believing in Aziraphale. And in that moment Crowley stands and walks towards Aziraphale. And they are mere inches away from one another either fully in or very nearly exactly where they stood or rather will stand during the kiss. I'm not gonna post a kiss gif we have all seen it ten bajillion times and I do not need to cry tonight it is a Wednesday.
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(I’m getting ahead of myself for a second but seriously, c’mon, just look at this fluff muffin's genuine smile above and tell me if it looks anything like that strained nightmare on his face in the gif below.)
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BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE. And take from this what you will. That happy little 1941 West End Girl with his vanished farthing basking in the glow of what he now knows is his Demon's adoration. Rotate our duo 180° around the bookshop and Az is now primed to move into the position where he gives his frantic The Metatron's not so bad of a dude and Heaven are the Good Guys and Crowley is one of the Bad Guys nonsense ridiculousness that totally walks back on Aziraphale's entire character growth over 2 seasons. Could it possibly visually represent that our favorite little white-winged stim-city cinnamon roll found himself in the final 15 in a situation at a complete 180° from that moment in 1941 when he was so happy and being genuinely sincerely himself and he was about to do something that he really actually genuinely wanted so badly to do and it was GOOD and it was RIGHT. Crowley's confession is obviously such a wildcard. At this point in 1941 Crowley is supporting and encouraging and working with Aziraphale and in the final 15 he is doing exactly not that.
And even more. In both the 1941 scene and the final 15, Crowley has just entered, respectively, a church and Heaven to save Aziraphale in the middle of the blitz/a demon army almost war battle. A massive atmospheric difference is that 1941 happens at night and the final 15 happens in the morning. We'll work on figuring out what that might represent.
And then we have some seriously upsetting parallel Angel/Demon on the shoulder blocking/framing moments.
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and
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And several more of such occur between the two scenes but I simply cannot.
And here's the part where I ramble and try to make sense of this in terms of the theories and fail miserably.
Get up, stretch your legs, have a glass of water, and take several deep breaths in.....and out..... You good? Let's go.
I've said it many times before and I stand by it that Aziraphale was lying through his teeth to Crowley in the final 15. Not because he wanted to lie to Crowley to convince him to come or to try to push him away - but because he was putting on a show for the Metatron. I think that just like the nazi zombies in 1941, the Metatron in S2E6 was absolutely watching Az's every move in the bookshop. And Az knew it. The first few times I watched it I thought Aziraphale's nervous glances to his left during his weird speech and the divorce were just nervous glances. Then I noticed that after he turned to face the other direction, his nervous glances went in the same direction, to his right side now, all the while to the window. It's alarming the frequency, several times a minute (but you were already acutely aware of the window glances you ineffably clever little shits.) I believe the whole final scene between our babies was an attempt at a sleight of hand by Aziraphale to subversively communicate with Crowley without letting on to the Metatron. How fitting that the parallel scene in 1941 revolved around supporting one another and planning and rehearsing for a performance that required for them to trust each other implicitly. And while I believe the act is for the Metatron, he is acting at Crowley - but expected him to catch on and act with him using coded language, movements, expressions, etc. that he expected/hoped Crowley would be able to read. However, both Crowley and Aziraphale in the final 15 were very clearly genuinely distraught for their own reasons. Crowley is about to finally verbally profess his love - and Aziraphale, I quite think, is terrified about his conversation with the Metatron and what's about to happen and is trying to come up with a tactic on the spot. It seems very likely to me that the intensity of their respective emotions in this moment absolutely doomed their communication.
How this all fits in with the leading theories.
I don't buy into the coffee theory. I think that was a metaphor or an allusion or symbolic of a very real "either accept my offer (which is not something you even want because everyone knows Aziraphale doesn't drink coffee) or suffer some dire consequences." I can't imagine Aziraphale would have ever thought the Metatron's offer was genuine and given out of merit. Surely he knew that he was in trouble. He'd thwarted the apocalypse, quit his job, stopped hiding that his person is a Demon, set off alarm bells in heaven twice in one week, blew up his halo and almost started a war, and hid an archangel on the lam. “You’re honest.” Bbgygrl bold face lied to the archangels for a week and the Metatron knows and Az knows he knows.
I'm not really for the body swap theory. Not really at all.
I’m not really for Angel!Crowley’s memory was wiped. How then would he remember the passwords? Crowley’s personality is very “that bitch” so I think all of his no-idea-who-tf-you-are interactions is just him being catty.
The time stop theory seems the most intriguing, I'm listening, but not yet sold. How prominently the ticking of the clock can be heard at all times in the bookshop feels important. I find myself flummoxed by the "missing minutes" / "continuity error" with that prominent clock in a show where the attention to detail is, “as you might say, a miracle,” that is propelling whole droves of human beings to the brink of discorporation. Here's an excellent breakdown of the timeline/examination of the clock in S2 by thesherrinfordfacility
I am, at this current moment in time, in the camp that believes Az likely attempted to convince Crowley to stop time so that he could explain the situation to him. To explain the threat - either implied, inferred, or direct - from the Metatron. To try to formulate a plan together. Check out this analysis from ineffableigh and take another look at Aziraphale babbling out his Heaven propaganda. Apparently the lip-reading theory that Az was mouthing about "time" has been debunked, but I stand by what looks like Aziraphale making the "time-out" hand gesture. And that damned clock loudly ticking its heart out all season must be important. Mustn't it??
Still, I'm not entirely convinced that any time stopping actually happened, not sure when it would have happened. Crowley was so emotional in a way we have never seen him. I think its highly possible that in the heat of that moment he wasn't catching Aziraphale's signals. I think that Crowley after the talk with Maggie and Nina was so caught up in saying what he was really thinking that it used up any possible bandwidth for LISTENING. But damn those tells seem like they would be/should be giant flashing neon warning signs to Crowley.
I mean, come on, the "C"lues in Aziraphale's ramble that he is spinning a wild-ass tale with coded language that would only make sense to Crowley are pretty obvious to me. If Az was really trying to convince Crowley to do something the last thing he would say is that it would be "nice(r)." And there is no way that at that point Aziraphale could have truly still considered Crowley to be a part of Hell and therefore one of the "bad guys." Seriously? 2 whole seasons and thousands of years spent learning about shades of grey and watching the Demon, who he loves, prove in a million little ways that he loves him back, watching that Demon do the right thing over and over, and TEACHING him, the Angel, the right thing. “Nothing lasts forever.” ?? My son is talking about his BOOKS. He is talking about THEM. They are IMMORTAL. They know what Eternity means. THEY last forever. If Aziraphale wanted to convince Crowley to come back and be an Angel, he would not have used that phrase/reasoning in his argument knowing full well that when Angel!Crowley became aware that his creation would be intentionally shut down, from Aziraphale's own mouth, mind, that was the triggering event that eventually led to Crowley's fall. Further, it would never have occurred to Aziraphale to try to use hurtful language to attempt to push Crowley away at this point because it has already been proven that that doesn’t work. S1E3 “I don’t even like you! “You do!” I think his erraticism in this scene was being totally caught off guard by Crowley's confession and trying to reconcile how to process and handle that while also trying to stick to his tactic of trying to get Crowley to read him. Az is brilliant, but Crowley is the one who usually can problem solve on his feet.
Az is clever enough to discern that he wasn't being offered the position in Heaven by the Metatron - Az was being forced back to Heaven. He wouldn't be happy or excited to make a difference in Heaven because he thought it was "the side of truth, of light, of good." No. There was no longer any freedom from Heaven, no safety for Aziraphale, which meant there was no longer any safety for Crowley. And if there was one motivator for Aziraphale above all other things it would be to keep Crowley safe. He had no choice but to go back to Heaven, so its not a matter of we can make a difference. It is a matter of we have to.
While I believe all of his word horror batshit disaster monologue was a bunch of old tosh, once present-day Aziraphale turns around from that 180° position to follow Crowley, into that final configuration matching that of 1941, he starts losing it. I think he's realizing that he failed in his attempt to get Crowley to understand. He did not expect to have to keep up this act so long. Crowley is walking away. It has all gone so wrong. He is cracking and the honest words start flooding past the lies. "Work with me!" (come on, catch up, please!) "We can be together"...(reluctantly, barely even trying anymore "...angels." And then it just breaks. "I need you!" "You don't understand!" While that would seem to be the case for Az, it really, at least on the surface, does not seem to have applied for Crowley.
The parallels between the final 15 and 1941 suggest to me, at least on the surface, an inverse. In 1941 we saw joy and excitement and wonder and cooperation and communication and trust. Furfur came to take Crowley back to Hell after catching our beloveds working together. And Aziraphale, the world's not best magician, performed a magic trick that may well have saved their existences, and "got it right the time that mattered." The final 15 is, again, on the surface and ostensibly, an abject disharmony. The Metatron came to take Aziraphale back to Heaven, and made a serious effort (no, not that kind, kids) to point out how very much the Ineffables "partnership" is "irregular" and implying, I'm sure, that they would only be permitted to be together as Angels in Heaven (which is a load of steaming celestial garbage.) (We're going to see more of the Az/Metatron conversation in S3, I just know it, there is some seriously important information missing.) But, as far as we were shown, at least on the surface, all of their getting to know one another and trusting one another and being able to read one another - failed to serve them the time that mattered.
And yet. Crowley still lingered in the end and stood so poised and stoic next to the Bentley watching Az step into the Hellevator...It kind of gave a feel that maybe Crowley figured something out. Maybe he had a cool down after storming out and realized something felt very off about that conversation. Maybe he just braced himself and remembered to trust Aziraphale. Maybe as he stormed out he saw the Metatron staring daggers into the bookshop window and it clicked. Maybe in Az's furtive glance back that very last time he once again mouthed "trust me." Some version of Az's message must have finally gotten through to Crowley. Somewhere along the way. It had to have. I can't believe it didn't. All season we were shown Crowley specifically can read Aziraphale. "You have three reasons for calling me" / "tone of voice," the "trust me" lip-reading at the 1941 magic show / Crowley has seen first hand how Az acts when he lies to Heaven in the Job mini-sode. And really. Crowley knows the second coming is on the agenda after his trip to Heaven. These two put the force of their entire existence into thwarting the Apocalypse once. Would he truly believe Aziraphale would want to help bring about the second coming? Sounds unlikely.
So, perhaps, the final 15 isn't in its entirety opposed to 1941. Maybe it's just a few symbolic nods. 1941 Crowley said the magic act they need to perform together needs to be "bigger" more "dramatic." Is there something bigger and more dramatic happening? Are they performing together? Did Crowley catch on? Did they stop time? Or is there a trick, like the photo swap, so surreptitious that it's almost invisible? Perhaps there is just a metaphor in there. Maybe now Crowley has to be the one to catch the metaphorical bullet and Az has to be the one to figuratively shoot? (That's terrifying.)
And then there's still the matter of that damned clock!
Also, let's face it, Alpha Centauri was never a plan. "They'll be shutting this all down in 6000 years.” “All.” As in "the universe.” As in Alpha Centauri included. They were going to have to take some sort of action eventually. I don't think Crowley ever wanted to go. He just wanted Aziraphale to say yes. Yeah, ouch.
Last point I promise is this video from @sendarya
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Here, Nightingale Sang in its entirety is lined up with the 13 seconds in which it played in the Bentley and it ends exactly at the final frames of Crowley and Aziraphale. Some have speculated that Crowley had Nightingale queued up to play on the pair's way to breakfast at the Ritz. But that doesn't make sense. Wouldn't one have a song start at the beginning? AND Crowley had yet to have his chat with Maggie and Nina. I'm not so sure that the Crowley we know would have gotten it into his head/summoned up the confidence on his own to ready THAT song. Maybe the often tone-deaf Bentley was trying to comfort Crowley by playing Nightingale? But what I think is that when Aziraphale glanced back, he made the tiniest of little Angel nudge waves to convince the Bentley to play that song. From this vantage point, Michael Aziraphale's creepy smile in the final frame conveys an entirely different sentiment. It makes him look certain. It makes him look like an Angel with a plan. If I'm right in this part, I think that would have been exactly what was needed to finally get his message, intentions, and feelings across to Crowley in a way he could understand.
Come at me hive mind!
Also still new to tumblr and think I royally fudged it on adding those gifs so I'll work on that.
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"I hate how they're writing Damian in Batman #146, he can't be that dumb, he's so ooc."
I mean, they're writing him almost as if he were a literal child who wants, no, needs to believe that his father's ideals aren't as fucked up as his mother's, who blindly believes in the man whom he learnt to trust despite being raised with widely different beliefs and ideals for the majority of his so-far short life.
Almost as if Damian were a pre-teen, or young teen at most (because how old can he be here, 13? 14?) who desperately clings onto the belief, onto the hope that his father hasn't really abandoned him, because his father is Batman, and Batman always has a plan, doesn't he? Obscure, complex, but a plan nonetheless, and it (almost) always turns out fine, so Damian needs to trust him, he knows he can, he knows that Batman is safe.
Logically, everyone else is older; I think the one whose age he's closest to might be Tim here, who's about 18 as usual, I guess. But Damian is a child, he's a child who's overall relatively new to Batman's antics, and he's a child who (unfortunately) rarely saw the difference between Batman and Bruce Wayne, a child who rarely got to meet Bruce Wayne at all, if you think of it.
You (you readers, not the characters in the story - because it makes sense for them to be so lost in the plot of their world that they lose sight of things) cannot blame a child for being delusional for believing with his whole heart that his father is not an evil bastard who's attacking everyone, allies included, family included. Because again, Damian doesn't really have a clear idea of how Batman and Bruce Wayne differ, he rarely got the priviledge to be with his father, Bruce Wayne, and not with his work partner, Batman.
You (readers) cannot really tell me that you're putting the blame on a child for 'snapping out of it' so late.
Of course, everyone is free to have their opinions, and if you think that this version of Damian is ooc or whatever, it's a valid, let's agree to disagree. But from a narrative pov, you can't possibly deny that it makes sense for Damian to be acting like this. He's a child, a literal child.
Expecting him to regulate his emotions as well as his sibs do is messed up. Which, by the way, they don't. Dick is a mess but keeping it together - except for the whole "punching your father senseless" thing, but good for him, I'd have done the same there. Jason is a mess and doesn't try to hide it, Steph is baffled and Babs is exhausted. The others are nowhere to be seen (and I'd have done the same pt2). Tim's the only one with a plan that's actually somewhat good - hope he makes Bruce snap out of his fear-induced little gateaway once and for all.
I know not many are fans of this run, but honestly? I'm digging it, it's possibly one of my faves. I love the drama, love the angst, love the plot-twists, like Damian snapping out of it just for Zur to silence him? Backup Robin who grins suspiciously like Jason? Tim ditching his phone - which is ossibly the most shocking thing? I'm hyped as hell.
All of this endless yapping to say that, okay, feel free to hate this or whatever, but please be humble enough to admit that Damian is being written exactly like he should be. I get it, DCAU gave us "Damian who talks like an old man, who never smiles and doesn't understand his peers" and it's cool. He's a bit like that in the comics too. But newer comics have a (very welcome, imho) tendency to write him as 'awkward' while simultaneously keeping in mind that he's a teen. And it's the best thing ever.
I, for one, needed reassurance at Damian's age. I needed an anchor and that anchor were my parents - growing up, the dynamics shifted but it's not the point. At 13, 14, or whatever Damian's age is, you're just a child who needs reassurance, because you're changing, the world around you is changing, and you're disoriented as if lost at sea. Writing Damian like that makes sense, it's not even up for debate.
He's not ooc, and he's not dumb either.
He's just a child.
Feel free to dislike how they're writing him, feel free to dislike literally every single detail about everything, this is a free world. But please don't tell me that needing a parental figure to be there for you, and that siding with said parental figure no matter what because they're essentially all you got left (rip batfam I guess?) - is ooc for a child. Damian is a child, don't forget that.
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thanatika · 7 months
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an interesting lens to analyze pathologic would be through the ways it references commedia dell'arte. part of it is that the conventions of commedia have left a lasting imprint on theatre, puppetry, and performance in general, but i think there are some very specific nods as well.
for an obvious point, farcical character archetypes represented by masks were an essential aspect of the art form. pathologic not only uses that concept in mark immortell's masked plays, it also uses the same two types of masks: a flat mask that covers the face with holes for eyes and mouth (also comparable to ancient greek theatre masks), and a mask featuring an exaggerated, beak-like nose.
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i'd say there are also references to the commedia archetypes in the actual characters themselves. for example, i'd be surprised if "vulgar comedies" wasn't an intentional reference:
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(i don't have a clear translation of "площадных комедий", the term that clara uses for "vulgar comedies" in russian, but the russian wikipedia page for commedia dell'arte is the first thing to come up when I google it.)
that's not to say i think the game is trying to completely frame dankovsky as il dottore, the laughable caricature of a psuedointellectual. but clara certainly sees him as one! and arguably his characterization is closer to this archetype in her route, as well as in the pathologic 2 haruspex route (mister "i was blessed with a naturally high intelligence", among other hits). these differences are possibly an indication of unreliable narrator.
after all, changeling's route is from the POV of a religiously-fixated teenager who sees the world in terms of stark good and evil, and whose character is bifurcated between pure good and pure evil herself. arguably the NPCs in her route act as elevated, exaggerated versions of themselves due to her perspective. and pathologic 2 leans harder on the "it's all a play" framing device than the original game did, giving the player a role to embody and making NPCs feel more like characters who exist for the purpose of the play (and for artemy as the protagonist) than as fully realized people. hence how in p2!artemy's first and last confrontation with the bachelor, you find him staged dramatically in a room cast in mood lighting as though his sole purpose is to wait there for you to enter. (well, either that or it's just that he's a drama queen.)
at least, that's one interpretation of why he comes off as more of a pompous twit depending on the route. another aspect of commedia dell'arte is that the protagonists often go unmasked, and relatively unexaggerated, compared to the masked villains and comic relief characters. bachelor is the protagonist of his own story, and arguably the deuteragonist of the haruspex route. but in changeling route and p2 his role is more of a bit player among many, cranked up into the role of learned fool.
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I think the portraits in the game largely reflect how Harry sees the characters, and Kim's and Jean's portraits are framed in very similar ways. The pose and angle is the same, they're both wearing solid-color jackets with similarly-shaped collars in a contrasting color - and they both have halos.
I didn't notice Jean's black halo until I saw someone on reddit point it out. It's mostly hidden by the blond wig until the end of the game. That halo feels absolutely rank with meaning about Harry and Jean's past relationship, but we can't know with certainty what that meaning actually is, because we just don't know very much about Jean. Maybe Harry kind of deified him, like Dora (and Kim), until Harry became disillusioned and started resenting him for failing to be a saint; that seems the most symbolicly plausible, but I don't think there's anything in their interactions that suggests they had that kind of relationship. Jean is ten years younger than Harry and newer to the RCM.
But I think the similarities in their portraits suggest that Harry subconsciously sees Kim as a shiny, new, more exciting replacement for Jean, even before he knows who Jean is. When you look at them next to each other, it's striking how colorless Jean's portrait is; Harry sees Jean as kind of washed out and lifeless, even if he doesn't consciously remember their history. Kim's portrait is literally brighter and more full of life: his whole face is illuminated, whereas half of Jean's face is in shadow; Kim's looking directly at the viewer (Harry), whereas Jean is looking away; Kim's expression looks somewhere between engaged and neutral, whereas Jean just looks sad; and of course, Kim's halo is still white.
I have a relatively cynical interpretation of Harry and Kim's relationship, and I have to wonder: what happens when the novelty wears off? Harry's amnesia gave him a chance to start over and do things better this time around, and there are definitely versions of him that would do better, but there are also versions of him that would become resentful of Kim just like he might have done with Jean, if he starts seeing Kim as a flawed human being. And versions of Harry that would cling to Kim with an unhealthy dependence if he won't stop idolizing him, like with Dora. Dora and Jean kind of represent two different failure paths in Harry's past relationships, and I think post-Martinaise Harry could easily fall into the ruts of his past mistakes.
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7clubs · 2 months
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ORV EPILOGUE SPOILERS.
Okay so I made a random ramble thread on twitter about my ORV Epilogue headcanons/interpretations and it's become apparent to me that. Uh. My perspective is somewhat unique so here:
ORV Epilogue is a huge callback to the Disaster of Floods, and a certified Disconnected Film Theory™ moment.
When the system starts to regain power and reactivate, one of the first things said (by HSY), as the stories start to reform is "Disconnected film theory?!" and my IMMEDIATE thought was this:
This phenomenon was activated because we, aka a Kim Dokja of a different timeline, have met him through our reading of the story, and through this, KDJ regains his memories. The parts of ourselves that came directly from KDJ such as loving this story and the characters, or perhaps our own "memories" of him that were formed by the act of reading ORV.
Because why else mention DFT specifically? The fact that the systems have restarted and the storytelling is continuing were enough to signal that Kimcom's efforts could have worked, that they've successfully gotten the story out, and KDJ's fragments to wish for his return...
But DFT being mentioned naturally made me think back to its introduction, where it is most prominently utilized: the Disaster of Floods, where the two Shin Yoosungs started to have their memories, their 'films' mixed up...
Kim Dokja used his First Person POV skill at this point, and viewed the world through 41st Shin Yoosung's eyes.
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DFT's initial stake in this scenario is that it's there so that, when active, if you killed one timeline's version of a character, the other one would also die, thus the party's dilemma as to whether to spare the child Yoosung. And later on, it activates when he meets the Oldest Dream...
But THIS film-related memory-fuckery also stuck out to me. Not only that... I feel like it might be implied that this happens because of an outside force: Kim Dokja.
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Are you still with me. Okay. Two more things:
Why call back to the Disaster of Floods? If not to also remember how, in this scenario, the wishes of the Constellations [thus, readers] wrote the ending?
Aren't we, the reader, a fragment of Kim Dokja, the outside force in this situation?
Haven't we been using the same skill as Kim Dokja the entire time?
also, Disaster of Floods happens relatively early on, so it just scratches my story structure itch if it comes back as a bookend.
tl;dr basically. We brought him back. And we gave him back his memories.
Through the combination of 1. our imagination, our wish for KDJ to wake up, and 2. our own memories entangling with KDJ's through disconnected film theory.
DFT, in turn, activated because 1. we are him from a different timeline and 2. met him through the story that 3. kimcom busted their ass to deliver to us <3
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lurkingshan · 6 months
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I Feel You Linger in the Air: Novel vs Drama 
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Happy IFYL special day! While I wait (not so) patiently for the special episode to become available for international viewers, I thought I would stop being lazy and get around to writing up my thoughts on the adaptation choices of the drama now that I’ve finally had a chance to read the original novel. 
First, let me just say: the novel is so fun. I’m so glad folks like @clairedaring and @pharawee talked about it on here and @waitmyturtles read it first and told me to jump on it, because I’ve had a really hard time with poorly translated y novels before and was definitely skeptical. But the story was excellent and the English translation was really solid, so a great time was had by all and I wasn’t even salty about spending eighteen American dollars on it. I didn’t think the novel was perfect (turtles can attest I had a few LOUD complaints) but it was a very enjoyable read. Shoutout to @bengiyo, @neuroticbookworm, and @wen-kexing-apologist as well for listening to me rant about Tee’s choices as I made my way through the novel. Bonus: if you have the chance to read this novel while vacationing in Thailand surrounded by plumeria trees and romantic scenery, I highly recommend. 
So, with that established, let’s talk about the adaptation! Adapting novels to a visual medium always comes with a lot of choices, and it’s not easy to make everything translate effectively. On the other hand, a live action drama can make some of what’s on the page feel even more vivid and new elements can be introduced that add to the canon. I’m on the record as both loving this show and feeling like there were some significant missteps in the writing, so I really wanted to understand the source material and how some of those choices were made. So here’s your spoiler alert for IFYL’s adaptation: it’s a real mixed bag of choices from our dear frenemy Tee Bundit, and all in service of one clear goal. 
I Feel You Linger in the Air, but Make It Sadder!
I’m going to break down the details below, but this is the TL; DR right here. Every choice Tee made in this adaptation was in service of transforming a relatively light and often comedic time travel romp into a story of deep melancholy and a thorough examination of queer pain. This is Tee’s whole schtick, so we can hardly be surprised; and yet I was kind of taken aback by how stark the difference in these stories felt even as a lot of the plot stayed the same. During the drama’s airing @respectthepetty talked about how this show was just too damn sad for her, and I gotta say, she was definitely picking up what Tee was putting down. YMMV on how sad you like your romance, but Tee Bundit is a very sad boy indeed.
Jom
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Let’s start here, because this is definitely my biggest grievance with Tee: he removed most of Jom’s personality from the book in order to give us a flatter, sadder version of him that fit better with a much more melancholy vision for this story. As it turns out, Jom was originally written to be smart, sassy, and very funny (h/t to @stuffnonsenseandotherthings whose post on this really got me interested in reading to see the difference). Novel Jom is a smartass who never misses the opportunity to work in a salty comment or express his frustration when things aren’t going his way, and he’s such an active character. He does not just sit back and let things happen to him; he thinks and he struggles and he tries. By comparison, show Jom just feels… vaguely confused, mildly depressed, and wildly passive most of the time. This is by no means a knock on Nonkul, who is a fantastic performer—these are clearly writing and directing choices and he is interpreting the character as instructed.
And it’s not just the removal of his core personality, either. Jom in the book has emotional intelligence and a stronger sense of connection to others. For one, he actually cares that Eung Phueng is his sister! Throughout the book, we see him dedicate time and energy to finding ways to care for his sister despite their different social stations; this dynamic is completely absent from the show, where Jom doesn’t even seem to remember Eung Phueng has his sister’s face most of the time. This was a major hole in the show and I still don’t really understand why Tee dropped the ball on it when there was so much material to drawn from in the book.
Winner: The novel, hands down. If you take nothing else away from this post, please take it as a recommendation to read the novel so you can experience Real Jom in all his sassy glory.
The Mythology 
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Now, I can’t really claim that either the novel or the show does a fantastic job with the mythology, because there’s a lot of hand waving in either case and some definite plot holes. But I will give the book credit for being upfront from the start: it didn’t really intend to explain it beyond giving us a little preamble about wormholes (yes, wormholes!) and for having Jom actually notice and care (and get very amusingly frustrated) that he didn’t understand what the wormhole wanted him to do or how to control it. He actually tried quite a lot in the book to figure it out, rather than just sitting around gazing morosely into the distance. In the end, the book tells us that Yai vowed to love Jom at first sight in every lifetime, which is a vow he made after the wormhole brought Jom to him but somehow affects the times that had already happened from our perspective. It’s a paradox that doesn’t fully make sense, but it is at least an explanation.
The show, by contrast, intentionally added layers to this mystery that it had no intention of resolving. The drawings opening up connections to the present, the ghostly visages haunting the characters, the glimpses of Jom in the future doing things we never saw in the original timeline, Mustache Yai kissing Jom in the water—all show inventions, and all setting up an expectation that some sense would be made of these clues. Which of course, never happened. Instead, these things were used to contribute to the spooky scary vibe and make everything feel sadder, and the show offered no explanation at all for why any of this happened.
Winner: It’s a draw since neither really did it well, but I’m staying salty with Tee for fucking with me.
Family Drama 
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Here is where we get into some of the stuff Tee added to the story that actually worked pretty well. One very smart adaptation choice: he made Yai and Eung Phueng siblings so that Yai would have a reason to be more involved in their household and able to interact much more with Jom in the early parts of the story; in the novel there is no connection between the households and Yai and Jom barely interact for the first several months after Jom arrives in the past. He also added a lot of family drama in the back half of the show: the struggles with Yai’s father, the shady uncle, the plot to force Yai to marry, and the big confrontation over Robert’s misdeeds are all show inventions, likely added both to pad out the story and make the relationship harder and sadder, and because he was looking for an alternate source of conflict since he was not doing Part 2 of the book (which takes place once Jom is yanked away again and shot back to the Commander Yai time period). 
Another major change from the novel to the show: in the novel, Yai’s plans to go study abroad were already set before Jom even got there, not something he won as a consolation in a negotiation over marriage. Which has some implications I’ll get into in the next section.
Winner: The drama, where the family dynamics were much more thoroughly explored. 
The Romance 
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As I mentioned above, Tee made a smart choice in bringing Yai more firmly into Jom’s orbit early in the story, but unfortunately, he didn’t do much with that advantage and actually failed to use some of what the novel gave him to work with. In the novel, Jom is much more aware of the attraction between him and Yai, very attuned to Yai’s flirting and their age gap, very aware of his own growing attachment to Yai, and thinking through the implications of all of it as it grows, which is a more natural and believable build up to their romance than in the show, where Jom seems distracted and unaware of Yai’s affections until they suddenly start jumping each other. That lack of romantic development in the show (which we discussed even as it was airing) was not because the material was not there for Tee to use in the book; he simply had other priorities and neglected to build it properly in show time.
That said, I have to give major credit to Tee for how he handled the romance once our leads were together and intimately involved. First, he really brought some of the scenes that were in the book to life in a way that still has me shook, like Yai’s drunken poetry recitation (credit must also be given to Bright for his eye work in that and many other scenes, what a stunner). And on top of that, the drama has some of the best physical intimacy scenes I have ever seen in any drama, full stop, and that is nearly all Tee and his creative team. He used elements from a few scenes in the book, but he remixed and amplified them to be a lot more powerful, and certainly much more artful and sensual than the sex scenes in the book. That olive oil masturbation scene? The show gets full credit, and the way the direction, editing, and performances so vividly painted their attraction to each other still gives me shivers when I think about it.
But anyway, back to bitching about Tee: one of the scenes that really stuck out for me like a sore thumb in the romance arc in the show was when Yai learns he will be going abroad and he and Jom discuss it in a curiously flat and emotionless way, with Yai acting like it’s no big deal for them to be separated for three years. I mentioned above that this was a change from the book: in the novel Yai was already set to go abroad before he ever met Jom, it was not a new surprise that came about after they were together. They discuss Yai’s impending departure twice in the book; once when Jom is still only Yai’s majordomo, and then once again when they are lovers. As you can imagine, the emotional tenor of these two scenes are quite different. And Tee used the wrong one for the show! I almost threw the book at the wall when I realized I was reading the verbatim dialogue from that scene in the show in the context of Yai and Jom hardly knowing each other yet, and then again when I got to the second conversation that was actually appropriate for two lovers who do not want to be parted. That has to be one of the most senseless adaptation mistakes I have ever seen. Tee Bundit, what is wrong with you!!
Lastly for this section, I will just note that the very long, drawn out goodbyes between Yai and Jom are also a show invention. In the book, Jom gets yanked to the next time period with no warning shortly after they get together and begins his next adventure with another Yai. Since Tee was ending the show here in this time period, he went in a different direction, having Jom and Yai much more aware of Jom fading and anticipating a separation so that he could (say it with me) make everything sadder. His choice to wallow for two entire episodes in sorrow and melancholy and to put much heavier focus on Yai’s despair was entirely his own, and so very on brand.  
Winner: It’s a draw. The book definitely writes the romantic arc more holistically and doesn’t have any of the missteps the drama does, but the show is so artful and the parts it gets right are so good I will remember them for the rest of my life. And I can’t pretend I’m not an angst monster at heart, so Tee’s sad af vision totally worked on me.
Sides and Queer Community
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Here is where Tee’s adaptation really shines, and I know others have discussed these changes before so I won’t go too deep on the details. But I absolutely have to give Tee props for taking tiny threads for these side characters in the books and building them into whole people that we actually care about. Especially in the case of Ming and Fong Kaew, Tee really made something of their extremely thin book stories to turn them into fan favorite characters with real growth arcs. I do think the book was better in the way it handled the fated connection between Fong Kaew and Khamsaen, but everything else about Fong Kaew’s story was deepened by the show. And Tee gets credit for adding so many meaningful stories for women characters in the first place, let alone developing a lesbian romance for Eung Pueng and Maey. He picked up on a tiny bit of subtext for underdeveloped characters in the book and ran with it, and it really enhanced the story. 
He also used side characters as a means to make this story feel all around more queer, not only by including additional queer romances but by building out a real sense of community and solidarity among the queer characters. Not only the addition of nods to real queer history, but the speakeasy, James’s explicit queerness, and Nuey the Green Queen are all Tee additions to the canon that really enhanced the story.
Winner: The drama and it’s not close. Well done, Tee!
That Ending
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One of my biggest interests in reading the novel was seeing how the ending with modern Yai is explained in the original source material, because I found the drama version of that scene so lacking. Well, it turns out, the novel did pretty much the same thing! The ending sequence of the book is even shorter than the scene in the show and similarly offers zero explanation for this new version of Yai or how he knows Jom before they jump each other and the story concludes. The main narrative ends there and the book then tacks on an epilogue explaining who this new Yai is, and it reads like an afterthought. Honestly, it felt to me like the writer ran out of steam and just didn’t bother to finish the story, and Tee did exactly the same thing. Which is kind of infuriating, because being able to fix stuff like that is one of the best things about a good adaptation. 
Winner: Absolutely no one, my kingdom for a proper ending to this story.
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So, my conclusions? 1) Tee Bundit is the saddest creator in Thai bl, hands down; 2) It’s a draw between which version of this story is better. The novel and drama both have different strengths and significant flaws, but both versions are compelling and had me on the edge of my seat. I highly recommend the book to anyone who is missing the show and wants another chance to revisit these characters, plus the added bonus of seeing Jom wrangle Commander Yai, something we are unlikely to ever see on our screens (though hope springs eternal besties!). If you do decide to give it a read, come talk to me about it! 
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impunkster-syndrome · 5 months
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Supposed singlethood is more of a social construct that people are taught to conform to in society than plurality is.
Plurality is natural, but it says a lot that I can have singlets tell me very plural-adjacent experiences and when I bring up how similar it is to being a system (Not saying they are one, just that it does sound like a similar experience), they backpedal. I remember my mom and stepdad telling me that hearing characters in my head that I can talk to is a completely normal thing, but the instant it was recontextualized as DID, all interest was lost. I've had my relatives say that my headmates are fake and do not deserve respect- but I doubt they would say the same if it was contextualized as me being a singlet with different feelings with names that react to things.
Singlets are the expected norm, and we are taught that it is "one body, one soul" for the most part. But, singlets do often have some very plural-adjacent experiences with identity, such as internal family systems, having headspaces with NPCs, MaDD and immersive daydreaming, being twins/triplets/etc, having percieved versions of people they talk to stored in their brain, visualization, servitors, etc. I think plurality and plural-adjacent experiences are a lot more expansive than most systems think, as well as singlets.
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balioc · 5 months
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Holiday Engineering: Lamptide
OK, let's put my money where my mouth is.
Lamptide is the invented-from-scratch holiday that I actually celebrate. It has its roots in a roleplaying game that I ran some years ago with @cloakofshadow and @mirror-lock, but after the game finished, I decided that I wanted to import a modified version of the festival into real life.
And it's worked very well! Or so I posit. We've had well-attended Lamptide celebrations for a couple of years running, and not only do people show up and enjoy themselves, there's a distinctive holiday spirit. The weird rites and activities do in fact happen. Which is possibly just because my friends are good sports, but...I think we're reaching the point where some version of Lamptide might well take place without me pushing it along.
As a holiday-engineering project, it's a work-in-progress. I am still tinkering with the observances, and the pieces definitely aren't yet all in place. I don't personally have the expertise to create some of the holiday stuff I'd want to create. Moreover, the population that celebrates Lamptide is still very small, and in some ways homogeneous -- mostly childless urban professional-types -- so the holiday doesn't have the context that it would need to manifest in all the forms that I imagine for it.
But I'm proud of it. And, at the least, it provides an example of what it looks like for a holiday to be built from the ground up.
Vibe. This is where I started. (Both in the RPG and in real life, actually.) In the RPG, Lamptide is an intercalary day, and like many intercalary festivals it's a weird and occult time. In real life, of course, I do not control the calendar. But even so, Lamptide is meant to have that same feel, manifesting as a carnival of spooks and revelry. To some extent, it's meant to serve as a Halloween-like that works better for me than actual Halloween does.
And much like Halloween, in theory, its core rituals can be practiced in three different "modes" depending on context. For families with kids, it's a cutesy holiday of flamboyant fun. For older kids and adolescents, it's a holiday of mischief and boundary-pushing (in a way that is, I hope, less obnoxious than the adolescent version of Halloween). For independent adults, it can be contemplative and/or literary and/or Spicy and Sexy, to taste.
Theme. In a highflown theoretical sense: Lamptide is the festival of narrative conquering material reality, of ideas and illusions becoming more-real-than-real. It is the day when you leave the sunlit world behind and walk back into Plato's cave, because our art allows us to create such beautiful shadows on the walls.
(The "lamp" of Lamptide is, notionally, the lamp whose light reveals what-is-not.)
In a more-everyday sense: Lamptide is a festival of magic.
Timing. Lamptide is observed on the spring equinox. There are a few reasons for this, some of them rooted in stuff from the RPG, but the big one is that it's almost halfway around the calendar from Halloween. I really don't want to compete with Halloween, to the extent that I can avoid it; I would lose that competition very hard. And there are enough obvious points of similarity that it's a real danger.
Early spring is also a good time for holidays generally, in the contemporary US. There's relatively little going on then, and people feel kind of festive because the worst of winter is over.
Mythology. The personification of the holiday is Father Lantern, an ogre-like character who carries a lamp. In the (notional) tales, he shines his lamp on you, and in its light you see an otherworldly version of yourself -- a creature that you could be, if you left ordinary reality behind. More prosaically, if he shows up at your doorstep and you offer him candy, he will tell you stories (or gift you with media).
Father Lantern is mostly a funny and approachable figure. He is long-winded and pretentious, in love with the sound of his own voice. But there is meant to be an edge of menace to him; he is an ogre, which means that there's always the danger that he'll just eat you, especially if you're a child. (This is not a behavior-enforcement thing -- he's not Krampus, and Lamptide is not that kind of holiday. Father Lantern's whims are inscrutable.)
I haven't yet experimented with having someone play Father Lantern, in the way that people play Santa Claus, but it's an obvious possibility.
Decorations. You put lamps and lanterns everywhere. If you can keep your celebration space lit entirely by lantern-light, that is to be commended. Silhouettes and shadow-plays are very much in the holiday spirit.
Holiday attire. Masks -- masquerade-style masks, the kind that allow people to eat and talk comfortably -- are very strongly encouraged. (When I throw Lamptide parties, this is the only thing about which I actually nudge people.) In terms of creating distinctive atmosphere, this fires on all cylinders. A space full of masked people feels otherworldly and ritualized and, well, magic. And the symbolism is super on-the-nose.
Fancy and flamboyant clothes are also encouraged.
Ritual interactions. The Lamptide tradition is to greet people with curses and maledictions. This is done in the spirit of theater superstition; it is a topsy-turvy intercalary carnival, after all. "Die in a fire" is the standard form of cheery holiday well-wishing, although you're encouraged to be creative if you're so inclined.
(Does this mostly give little kids an excuse to be gleeful about saying stuff they'd normally never be allowed to say? Maybe.)
Activities. There are two big ones.
Divination. Lamptide is a time for fortune-telling. Tarot cards are my go-to, and offering Tarot readings at Lamptide parties has proven to be a big hit, but any form of divination at all -- ranging from Actual Fucking Haruspexy to "let's ask ChatGPT about our future husbands" -- is praiseworthy. When my son was less than a year old, I had him crawl around the floor and choose Symbolically Portentous Objects like he was the infant Dalai Lama or something, and it was great.
Bribery, especially candy bribery. One of the core dynamics of a Lamptide celebration is that you walk in carrying candy, or other things that you're happy to give away, and you offer your prizes to people in exchange for them doing stuff that you want them to do. For families with little kids, this is a chance for the parents to reward their children for showing off cool skills / desired behaviors in a concrete ritual framework, and for the children to get their parents to do silly stuff. For teens, it's a structure for something that's essentially Truth or Dare with more flexibility. The applications for Spicy Sexy grownup parties are left as an exercise for the reader.
(I have thoughts about expanding the candy bribery thing into a practice of Reverse Wassailing / Trick-or-Treating, essentially, where you walk around town offering strangers candy in exchange for singing with you or otherwise doing cute harmless stuff. I haven't yet worked out exactly the right feel, though. And, well, things being how they are, you need a pretty thick social skin to be willing to offer strangers candy without a widely-accepted social framework.)
Undeveloped aspects of the holiday, which I hope to flesh out in future years:
Traditional food. We don't really have anything other than candy, right now, and it's an obvious lacuna. Lamptide isn't really a sit-down-for-a-nice-dinner kind of holiday...although I guess it could be...but I suspect it would be useful to come up with some kind of Classic Lamptide Hors d'Ouevre or Classic Lamptide Crudité or something else appropriate for a party where people are milling around doing different things. (Not a dessert, I don't want to compete with the candy.) Sadly, I have no culinary genius, so I'm going to have to outsource for this one.
Music. @cloakofshadow has written some alternate lyrics for Christmas carols, but a thriving holiday should really have its own songs with their own distinctive melodies. Which means that I should probably find a competent composer to help me out.
Gifts. It would be very In-Theme for Lamptide to be the holiday when you give people the books / movies / video games / etc. that you want them to consume for your sake. I haven't yet done anything with that idea, but I am definitely considering it strongly.
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shunnedmorlock · 1 month
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Hi! What are your opinions on each of the greens ?
Have a good day/night!
Otto: I think he gets a bad rap, not in absolute terms but relatively to the people like Viserys and Daemon. If you hate Otto for pushing Alicent to marry Viserys, you should hate Viserys much, much more. Otto is "merely" complicit in what happened. There was no one Vissy could've said no to more effectively than Otto. It just goes to a double standard you see a lot with these farcical black-green debates where people change their opinions on whether it's ok to judge people by in-universe standards depending on what "team" they're a part of. He has a habit of telling unfortunate truths that get him in trouble, but most of the things he says are just, like, objectively true, but people don't want to hear it. Daemon is actually a danger to the realm and his brother, Rhaenyra does actually have to give the scions of great houses a hearing, Daemon did actually groom Rhaenyra to claim the throne, Alicent's children do pose an inherent threat to Rhaenyra by their mere existence.
From a Doylist perspective, like many other things, I think episode 9 really butchered Otto's character. All of a sudden the guy who has been working hand in hand with his daughter for the past few episodes didn't tell her about the plot to seat her son on the throne??? And now the guy who got fired by Aegon for being too slow and measured in his war planning is pushing to kill Rhaenyra immediately? And he wants to send the Kingsguard to do clandestine assassin work? And he's reluctant to ban child fighting pits for like no reason? I'm sorry, you don't have to be a feminist to not like that!
Alicent: I have talked about her at length. Nixonian Queen. I kneel. The war will make her worse, and I enjoy it. One of the characters I think on-balance the show improved.
Criston: Not a good guy by any means, but dismissing him as just a resentful incel is just boring. It's very clear he was, at best, conflicted about his tryst with Rhaenyra to begin with - he liked her, they had a lot of chemistry, but he does genuinely believe in his vows. The marriage thing is obviously silly and naive, but from his perspective it's him trying to do right by her (and also preserve himself and his soul), which puts him a step above many other Westerosi men who canonically often feel no obligations to the women they sleep with outside of marriage or the children created. There is a real difference in values between him and Rhaenyra that goes beyond him hating women, even if his values aren't strictly speaking good. I'm sorry, but the fact that a Westerosi man is as sexually repressed as an average Westerosi woman is genuinely a point in his favor! I sincerely hope he and Alicent make each other worse. Substantially improved by the show.
Aegon: This is going to be controversial, but baffling/over-the-top/ill-thought-out decisions like Dyana and the child fighting pits aside, I much prefer this version of Aegon to F&B. I don't care that he's kind of pathetic, that's fun, that's drama, that gives room for character development and growth into the king he ends up becoming. It's clear the writers do want Aegon to be kind of sympathetic, but it seems they didn't consider what stuff like Dyana would do to that, which to me indicates they meant the focus of that scene to be Alicent and her behavior, not Aegon. Which is stupid. One of the worse victims of inconsistent characterization, switching between vaguely sympathetic drunken frat bro to outright sex criminal every episode, or even in the same episode.
Helaena: I like what they've done with her. It's more interesting for her to be a doomed neurodivergent prophetess than just a little dumb, even though she hasn't done a ton so far. Similarly, in an RP I was a part of, Jaehaera was depicted as not simple, just autistic and it was much more interesting.
Aemond: BORING! Don't care about this guy, sorry. Maybe I'll like him more when he is pathetically down-bad for Alys Rivers, but right now he's just like budget Daemon to me, who I also find boring. He was more interesting as a bullied teen.
Larys: He's a tough guy to adapt because his motivations are kind of nonsensical behind a vague idea of getting back at Rhaenyra (?) for dishonoring his brother (??) by putting his children in line for the throne (???). The foot thing is kind of gross and I do wish they'd have given him an actual motivation but whatever. The actor's good and I do like him and Alicent on balance. Improved by the adaptation.
Tyland: We love our little bureaucrat don't we folks? Hope he gets more screen time later on.
Jasper Wylde: FUCK YOU SHOWRUNNERS WHY IS THE GUY WHO HAS HAD ONE LINE THIS ENTIRE SEASON PART OF THE COUP BUT NOT ALICENT FUCKING HIGHTOWER??????
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fuckyeahbaldursgate · 7 months
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Viconia - Plot Support extraordinaire
Just to preface this as I don't want this to seem like I am hating on BG3 as a diehard fan of the original series because I really do love BG3. I've completed it twice now and think it will absolutely be joining my annual rotation of BG1/SOD/BG2 playthroughs but it has its problems, much in the same way that the originals themselves have problems as well.
So after my Sarevok post I wanted to treat Viconia to the same critical analysis as unfortunately I think she also gets the short end of the evil plot stick. I get it, evil characters can be hard to get right but again similar to Sarevok, in my opinion, her character regresses to evil Shar mook number one rather than actually being Viconia. Worse still she's entirely at the mercy of being wrapped up in ShadowHeart's backstory.
Anyway this is a bit of a deep dive into Viconia's issues in BG3. Spoiler warning for both BG3 and BG2.
1. No Grey DeLise.
Again, similar to Sarevok, another prolific voice actor that has done recent video game work seemingly not approached for the role. I can't help but think that some of this is down to the rushed nature of act three generally and Larian just having to get whoever they could for the job in the time that they needed it. Unlike Jaheria and Minsc there's no attempt to mimic her original VA or get someone who sounded like her so she ends up sounding completely and utterly different.
This version of Viconia sounds haughty and stuck up which while the original Viconia VA has a degree of arrogance, she is also pretty sultry. Haer'dalis even comments that she has 'the throaty voice of the most expensive courtesan' and Viconia deliberately plays on the stereotype of the sensual female drow with certain male party members for her own benefit e.g the male Bhaalspawn, Edwin, Sarevok and even Anomen (I cover this a bit here and here).
2. Her in game design...just isn't great.
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Let's be honest, combined with the voice, Viconia's design basically makes her unrecognisable. She looks like a generic old drow lady to the point that I did have 'Is that meant to be Viconia?' moment when I first met her.
Now I appreciate there is minor controversy with Viconia's original BG2 portrait (which is probably the most recognisable image of her) because the artist actually used a famous porn star as the base for it.
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For info, this was a common practice at Bioware at the time as they used to use lots of different images as bases for portraits. They finally got into legal trouble for it in NWN where due to various copyright claims they had to change quite a few portraits.
More recently, I think that Beamdog actually did quite a good job of recreating a faithful adaption of her original portrait in Siege of Dragonspear while presumbably navigating the original copyright issue.
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In comparison to her BG3 portrayal, my first impression was she looks incredibly old. Now as far as I'm aware we've never been given a canon age for Viconia but we do know she was around for House DeVir being defeated by the Do'Urden house so she has to be at least 100 years old by the time of BG1... but her character level is between 2 and 6 (depending on the party's XP) so a relatively inexperienced cleric. With that in mind I definitely assumed she was on the younger side (maybe 200-300?). Either way 5e elves can live between 750 to 1000 years although there are instances in the Forgotten Realms books of drow living to over 2000. Now tack on the additional 120 years for BG3 in my mind it would definitely put her in the middle aged category but not necessarily anywhere near the end of her life. Critically she would be aging much slower than Jaheria but with those wrinkles she looks WAY older than her. I honestly feel cheated of an interaction between the two about how hagged and old Jaheria looks in comparison to herself.
In terms of her outfit, although initially she wears the Sharite mask and hooded outfit, which is good for concealing her identity, we eventually end up with Viconia in a spider adorned dress. This seems like a strange choice given the spider motif when she literally stopped worshipping Lloth for Shar - maybe she's being ironic? The lack of armour,when she's a cleric that knows there's a good chance she's about to have a fight seems kind of stupid. If you do choose to fight her, she then looks entirely comical in her light dress accompanied by an enormous oversized shield and mace.
For me though this really identifies her design problem: her leather armour was a critical part of her original design. Given that we only see portrait style headshots of BG characters, the decision not to include her leather corset with the three straps and the head band is really what makes her unrecognisable. It would be like removing Minsc's head tattoo or Jaheria's braids or Sarevok's armour (which even with all the problems I talked about in my post, at least he got to keep that).
My hope is that some enterprising modder out there makes a more BG2 accurate version of her in future. Larian, please give my lady her leather armour back or maybe even a justicar outfit!
3. Ignores her BG1/2 alignment, motivations and twists her original epilogue.
Now I do appreciate BG3 deliberately assumes that the events of BG1/BG2 are a little bit fluid, which Jaheria confirms this when she talks about the bards that tell stories of her slaying gods or bedding them depending on which one you listen to. But the game goes onto confirm certain events in Viconia's history that don't really make sense:
A.) The game confirms that Viconia did travel with the Bhaalspawn but not for the entirety of the game. Minsc informs you that after trying to dissect Boo she was expelled from the group. I have to admit this story didn't gel with me at all because it implies Viconia is some sort of chaotic evil idiot (reminder: Viconia is neutral evil with a 16 INT score and 18 WIS score in BG2) who would deliberately provoke a giant raging berserker man by murdering his beloved pet. Like that's the sort of thing I could see Xzar (who is completely and utterly mad) doing but not Viconia. What benefit would she get out of it? Maybe it would be a good tribute for Shar but that would be a pretty short term benefit. In fact in BG2 Viconia offers begrudging respect to Minsc for his effectiveness in battle, she knows he's powerful and she wants to be on the right side of that. Minsc for his part does what he does with many of the female characters, particularly in BG2 and makes her a proxy substitute for Dynaheir offering to protect her. That's not to say she won't insult people (Aerie and Jaheria or characters who she perceives as weak often get the brunt of it) but she's generally smart enough to stay out of an actual fight. Important to note that in any of NPC conflicts that end in a fight in BG1/2 (e.g. Kivan, Ajantis, Keldorn) it's never Viconia that's starts the fight.
B.) The Waterdeep cult.
In Viconia's epilogue, which you only get if you kept her for the end of Throne of Bhaal and you didn't romance her, Viconia goes on to do a few things which you can see below (obviously massive spoilers for BG2) :
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So it feels like Larian has taken the first part of this ending but nothing else, which really leaves a lot of questions. We know Shar isn't entirely happy with Viconia based on her diary entries so why is Shar still giving powers to a woman that basically killed a whole bunch of her followers? Why is Viconia still working for a goddess that hates her? Why is she so accepting of Shar's plot to groom Shadowheart as her replacement? Why on earth hasn't Viconia got the fuck out of dodge, which is pretty much what she has been shown to do in the past? And this comes neatly onto my next point.
4. Viconia is just a plot device for Shadowheart.
I love Shadowheart and I love her arc but honestly Viconia being the Mother Superior just felt like a way of inserting her into the game in a way that didn't really fit especially when Viconia's diaries in BG3 show that she knows that Shar intends for Shadowheart to essentially replace her as one of her prominent followers/chosen. The whole plot ignores two critical points about Viconia and her backstory:
Firstly the reason Viconia left the Underdark in the first place was because she refused to sacrifice a child to Lloth and Lloth turning her brother into a drider after he saved her from being sacrificed. Now Viconia is many things, she's self serving, cruel and dedicated to her own survival at the expense of anything and anyone else (quintessential neutral evil through and through) but at the same time she threw away her position, caused the downfall of her house and got most of her family murdered to save a child. You're telling me she would then willingly go along with Shar's plan to deliberate plan to kidnap and repeatedly torture a child for YEARS whilst also training said child to replace her? My girl doesn't have many lines in the sand but harming children definitely seems like one of them. I actually wandered whether Shadowheart not liking to harm children / prefers saving them is not just about her being a secret Selunite but also a potential a hint of Viconia's influence.
Secondly, that plot seems to ignores Viconia's other primary driver, which is to survive: it's why she leaves the Underdark, it's why she travels with the Bhaalspawn, it's why she worships Shar and it's why she murders an entire cabal of Shar's followers after one person betrayed her. Now if we ignore that she has qualms about children, you're telling me that she would instead essentially train her replacement to be an amazing cleric who is 99% likely to murder her? I'm pretty sure Viconia would have tried to kill Shadowheart way before her becoming a justicar or simply skipped town as she has done before.
The alternative?
Personally I would have liked to have seen Viconia ultimately involved in a plot to overthrow the Mother Superior or maybe doing something even crazier like going after Shar herself out of revenge following her fall from grace after the events of the Waterdeep cult. Maybe she works with the Absolute to get her revenge and keep her divine powers - hell who better to help Ketheric with the Nightsong in Shar's temple then an ex priestess of Shar?
If not the Absolute then Shar's got plenty of enemies and Viconia has converted before. Maybe she could have joined the team to achieve a particular goal while giving fans of the original series the opportunity to have one of the original evil characters to join the crew. I would have loved to see the contrast with Minthara who is still fairly fresh from leaving drow society and a complete blunt instrument compared to Viconia's more subtle ways. Maybe Viconia would take the paladin under her wing, maybe introduce her to a new patron god (something I don't think is ever explained is how Minthara still retains her divine powers given neither Lloth or the Absolute are fueling them anymore). Shevarash the elven god of revenge, would be a fantastic fit for both of their back stories (which would also be a nice little throw back to Viconia's heated / sometimes fatal arguments with Kivan in BG1) presuming that Viconia could get over her disdain for the elven pantheon by that point in the timeline. The fireworks with Jaheria of course would be grand while Minsc I feel would be very conflicted given his mind's tendancy, as noted above, to sub in any female magic user as Dynaheir.
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luthwhore · 5 months
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a while back i made a recommended reading list for lex luthor, and originally didn't plan to make a superman one, since it's a lot easier to find reading lists for him, but a lot of the reading lists i see either tend to be very short and have the same 5-10 books on them, or feel way too expansive and overwhelming, so i wanted to make a list of some of my personal picks!
this list is designed to help relatively new readers get to know the character, so i've tried to focus mostly on things that are accessible to people with only minimal knowledge of the character/world (with one single exception).
i also have not included any pre-crisis stories because i don't feel like i've read enough pre-crisis content to confidently recommend any specific comics, but i might one day come back and add a section for pre-crisis comics later!
❤️ = Personal favorite
Origin Story
Superman: Birthright, by Mark Waid ❤️
Superman: Birthright is what I would consider to be the definitive modern Superman origin story, featuring modernized versions of many Silver and Bronze age concepts. Mark Waid is, imo, one of the best modern day Superman writers in the sense of really understanding the core of his character, so I would highly suggest starting here for an understanding of who Clark is and what makes him tick. Optional: If you like "Birthright", the presently incomplete "Last Days of Lex Luthor" is a direct follow up to it, also written by Mark Waid, and delves deeper into the complicated relationship between Superman and Lex Luthor.
Superman: Secret Origin, by Geoff Johns
Written a few years after Birthrigh, "Secret Origin" technically supplanted Birthright as the official canon. Like "Birthright", it attempts to modernize many Silver/Bronze Age concepts, though it takes a different route than the aforementioned "Birthright."
Post-Crisis
Superman: Up, Up, and Away, by Geoff Johns & Kurt Busiek
Set after the events of the DC events Infinite Crisis and One Year Later, though it's not necessary to read either to follow this arc. After a year long break from being Superman, Clark returns to the cape. Since Infinite Crisis served as one of many soft-resets for the pre-Flashpoint DCU, it's a solid arc to start with.
Superman: Last Son, by Geoff Johns
Clark learns of another Kryptonian child on Earth and decides to take him in and introduces the character of "Chris Kent." Follows "Up, Up, and Away". This arc technically ran concurrently with the "Camelot Falls" arc, with "Last Son" being the Action Comics storyline and "Camelot Falls" being the "Superman" storyline. (I would recommend reading "Last Son" first, since otherwise you might be confused by Chris's presence in "Camelot Falls".)
Superman: Camelot Falls, by Kurt Busiek ❤️
One of my personal favorite post-Crisis Superman stories. Clark is told that the only way to avert an apocalyptic future is to give up being Superman. One of many, many stories that asks the philosophical question "Do heroes actually make things worse?" but has a very fresh and uplifting take on the premise.
New 52
Action Comics (2011), by Grant Morrison
Grant Morrison's Action Comics is a very sharp departure from the pre-Flashpoint version of Superman, instead choosing to do with the Golden Age what Mark Waid's "Birthright" did with the Silver Age. Morrison's Superman here is significantly more hotheaded and aggressive than the previous decade's version of him, but he's by far the closest to Siegel and Shuster's original vision for the character, so it's worth a read.
Superman: Unchained, by Scott Snyder
A Superman vs the US military story, with art by the legendary Jim Lee. It's a little dark in tone (and in color scheme) for Superman, but pretty in-line with the tone of most n52 books.
Rebirth and Beyond
Superman: Up in the Sky, by Tom King
A story that shows the lengths Superman is willing to go to in order to save one person. Has some very cute interactions between Clark children, and in general really gets the heart of Superman as a character.
The Warworld Saga, by Phillip Kennedy Johnson ❤️
A massive story following Superman to Warworld, where he works to free a group of Kryptonians being kept as gladiatorial slaves. Leans heavily into the idea of Superman as a Moses allegory, with the Authority as supporting cast. Over all a really beautiful story, both in terms of the plot and the art. Imo, the best Superman story from the last decade. Optional: If you like "Warworld" make sure to read the rest of PKJ's Action Comics run. His last issue of Action Comics just dropped recently, so you could absolutely sit down and binge the whole three-year run straight through.
Batman/Superman: World's Finest (2021 - ongoing), by Mark Waid
Set during the early years, featuring Superman, Batman, Robin (Dick Grayson), and occasionally Supergirl. In true Mark Waid fashion, it pulls heavily from the Silver Age, and manages to balance Silver Age campiness with more modern storytelling. (If you're a Superbat fan and you're somehow not reading this already, you should be.)
Superman (2023 - ongoing), by Joshua Williamson ❤️
The current running Superman arc. Another soft-reset for the Superman canon, meant to serve as an easy starting place for new readers. Beautiful art, hopeful and uplifting, and features my personal favorite take on the Lex in the comics, which should really tell you something. Optional: Action Comics issue #1050 sets up some things for this comic, but you won't lose much by skipping it.
Self-Contained Stories
Superman Smashes the Klan, by Gene Luen Yang ❤️
A YA graphic novel based on an old radio show. Set during the 1940s during Superman's early years, and really takes Superman back to his roots as a champion of the oppressed. If you read no other book on this list, please read this one. It's a quick and easy read and gets right to the heart of who and what Superman is.
Superman: For All Seasons, by Jeph Loeb
A story spanning four stages of Clark's life, with gorgeous artwork by the incomparable Tim Sale. Delves into Clark's relationships with most of the important people in his life, including his parents, Lois, and Lex.
Superman: Secret Identity, by Kurt Busiek
A meta twist on the Superman story with a boy in the real world develops Superman-like powers and has to grapple with what that means for him and what to do with those powers. A really excellent deconstruction of Superman.
All-Star Superman, by Grant Morrison
Superman, upon being told he has only a few days to live, chooses how to spend the rest of days. Widely regarded as one of the greatest Superman stories of all time, but features a lot of deep cut lore and will resonate more if you're more familiar with the characters. This is the one book I would not recommend starting with. Also leans heavily on the Silver Age canon.
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random-jot · 1 month
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Prediction for OPLA Season 2 episode breakdown:
*Note: this is assuming it has the same episode count as season one, 8, though I wouldn’t be surprised if Season 2 ends up having ten given both the positive reception to the first one and the amount of content from the Alabasta arc has to adapt
Episode One:
Loguetown and Reverse Mountain. Luffy & Co arrive at Loguetown, the now teamed-up Buggy & Alvida launch a surprise attack. Smoker and Tashigi introduced, each respectively has their first confrontation with Luffy and Zoro. The rest of the Straw Hats’ escapades (Usopp’d sniping duel and Sanji’s cooking contest) are downplayed/cut for time. Possible Bartolomeo cameo. Episode ends with the Merry sailing over Reverse mountain, possible cliffhanger ending as the ship sails into Laboon.
Episode Two:
Laboon, Whiskey Peak, Little Garden Start. The episode will open with a heavily abridged sequence around Laboon, then move swiftly to Whiskey Peak, which will entail the majority of the episode, big focus on Zoro solo-ing the small fry of Baroque Works, Zoro & Luffy’s fight (though likely a shorter fight than in the original) and Vivi reveal. Episode ends with crew either heading to or arriving at Little Garden.
Episode Three:
Little Garden Cont.’ Dorry and Broggy introduced, pray for the CGI budget, Zoro & Sanji have their dinosaur hunting competition, Mr. Three attacks the group. Sanji gets his first ‘Mister Prince’ moment on the snail transponder - this will play out slightly differently, possibly he steals the transponder from Three after they defeat him. Nami falls ill suddenly, Dorry and Broggy send them off to the next island.
Episode Four: 🦌❄️
Drum Island. The crew arrive at Drum Island and begin searching for a doctor to save Nami. Wapol l is downplayed as a villain with more focus on the urgency of curing Nami’s and introducing certain more important new characters. Possibly the last scene gives us our first look at Chopper.
Episode Five: 🦌❄️
Drum Island Cont.’ Chopper’s backstory is told on flashback; this takes up maybe half the episode, similarly to how Sanji’s backstory was told in season one. Wapol attacks again but is deslt with relatively quickly. Drum Island wraps up with Chopper joining the crew and the Straw Hats setting sail for Alabasta proper. Slight possibility that Wappol is near cut entirely, a la Krieg, and the villain for this arc is another member of Baroque Works.
Episode Six:
Alabasta. The Alabasta arc proper begins, much faster paced than in the source. Mr 2 meeting happens but briefer than in the source. Straw Hats aim to take down Crocodile directly. Smoker catches up to the Straw Hats. Ace is introduced and given a bigger role than in the source, helping them escape Smoker. Perhaps episode ends with Luffy and Smoker captured together.
Episode Seven:
Alabasta Cont.’ If not in the last episode, this episode will center around the Casino, we’ll get Sanji’s big ‘Mr. Prince’ moment, the various high-ups of Baroque Works will begin making their moves (Mr 2 imitating the king etc.) Luffy and Crocodile’s first fight, with Luffy being left for dead as a possible cliffhanger episode ending.
Episode Eight:
Alabasta Concludes. The final showdown to save Alabasta begins. Various Straw Hats fight the Various members of Baroque Works, the members of Vivi’s court try to stop Crocodile’s bomb, Luffy reappears at a clutch moment for his big rematch with Crocodile. Episode seems as though it ends with a slightly altered version of the “X” moment, but all of a sudden Nico Robin appears on the ship and asks to join their crew. Season Ends.
General other thoughts:
It’s gonna be a lot to squeeze into 8 episodes, so my guess is like season one, there will have to be some pretty brutal cuts. As mentioned, I feel like Wapol might be downplayed to give more room for heavier hitting villains, in addition the various Baroque Works high-ups will be downplayed, with the exception of Bon Clay and Mr 3. We will see Nico Robin doubting her allegiance to Crocodile sooner. Smoker’s role will be increased, with he and Tashigiri pursuing the crew like Garp did in season one. Buggy and Alvida will show up a few more times but continue to be unsuccessful. Koby and Garp will appear, though far less frequently than in season one.
For a possible post-credits tease, the meeting to decide who will take Crocodile’s place as a member of the Seven Warlords.
Looking forward to it airing and seeing how close I got!
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oracleofdiscord · 2 months
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possible ninja ages/timeline thing
(note: the reason i say possible is because in general i think trying to find a fully definitive age for any of the ninja is ultimately a futile effort.
there were actually pieces of information that i ignored in this because they contradicted other information i was using, and it's possible i missed something entirely. in general, i tried to ignore twitter and focus on in-show stuff. there are also fan theories i incorporated and fan theories i ignored, so if you subscribe to a different set of headcanons/theories you could easily come up with different results than me)
this isn't me saying "hey guys i cracked the code!" this is me saying that this is a possible timeline for their ages)
okay so this is something i worked out recently when i was trying to develop my ninjago oc, estrella, to help me figure out an approximate age for her.
it uses as a base this rough timeline by @destinysbounty (both in the sense that i used it as a guide and in the sense that when i needed to start visualizing things, i wrote on/drew on/edited this picture)
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now, one theory i'm going off here is something that was proposed to me by @destinysbounty when i got confused about how harumi could be roughly the same age as lloyd both in flashbacks and in the present: the idea that after the tea, lloyd's body stopped aging until his mental age caught up with his physical age. this catch-up happened during the timeskip between s7 and s8, which is why his voice got lower
so this assumes that from s8 onwards, lloyd's mental and physical age match. other assumptions/pieces of evidence that i used:
kai mentions being a teenager during the oni trilogy, and thus is 19 at oldest
thanks to the flashback with baby nya, it can be assumed kai is at least a couple of years older than her
thanks to having seen nya and lloyd during s1 (where they have different body forms), it can be assumed nya is a least a couple of years older than him
(i've simplified this down to 2 years between each in my timeline, but there could definitely be an argument for more years. in my case, i felt like 2 years each made things line up in a way that made sense to me. feel free to make your own version and experiment with increasing the gap between nya and her siblings on either side but i've picked a number and i'm sticking to it)
@destinysbounty mentioned that most age estimates they'd seen for the pilots had nya in the 13-14 range
so, let's call nya 13 in the pilots/s1/s2 (the green chunk on the timeline). if lloyd was 2 years younger, he'd be 11, which works with the body form he had. if kai was 2 years older than nya, he'd be 15, which feels reasonable.
and let's call kai 19 during the oni trilogy. this would make nya 17 and lloyd 15, and also mean that 4 years have passed since s1. let's look at our rough timeline above. if the green chunk all takes place within a single year and there's a confirmed 1 year timeskip between s7 and s8, than for 4 years to have passed since the green chunk, the red chunk would need to be 3 years. which is a little on the short side, but within the bounds set by our rough timeline!
if lloyd was 15 in s8, he was 14 in s7. so going back to our earlier theory about his age, his chronological age caught up with his body in-between 14 and 15, and he started aging again. apparently 14.5 is kind of the upper boundary of when boys' voices change, so i'd say this checks out!
and here's my visual diagram of that
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(i only included the characters that i used in figuring this out - lloyd and harumi's age relative to each other, lloyd and nya's age relative to each other, kai and nya's age relative to each other, kai saying he was a teenager, lloyd's voice changing...
but i would assume all of the core 4 ninja are about the same age except zane, who has his own thing going on. maybe jay is a year younger than kai, putting him closer in age to nya.)
assuming that the rest of the initial timeline is correct (s11-s14 being a year, the post-seabound timeskip being a year, the merge timeskip being 5 years)...
in crystalized, lloyd would be 17, nya would be 19, and kai would be 21.
in dragons rising, lloyd would be 22, nya would be 24, and kai would be 26.
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