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soullessjack · 5 months

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sorry for the winchesters posting so late in the game but im finally seeing it with my good ol buddies and oh my god there are so many jack parallels it almost has to be on purpose. and like yeah Tony the half-Djinn who tries to be a good monster is the most obvious parallel but holy shit. MAC from episode 6 is soo.

like. you have a quaint little hunting circle, and there’s a guy with a bad background and a “dark soul” that you allowed into your circle fully knowing that he had a “dark soul,” and posed a risk because of it. but when you saw how that darkness and violence could be useful to you, you just let it go unchecked and worsen over time and you let his need for power become extreme enough that he turns to **dark magic for it and only when he became a threat to you, did you decide he just had to die because in the exclusively hypothetical scenario where he finally turned on you, you knew he’d win.

and the thing is, you already knew he was a threat from the get go. you knew about his darkness and why he did what he did. you knew he needed help, but you didn’t know how to help him, and frankly you didn’t even try to help him because he was more useful to you as a weapon, and only when you were at the same mercy you inflicted on others with him did you finally act. and you didn’t know how to help him and frankly you didn’t even try to. you had a friend stuck in a cycle of violence, and instead of helping him, you wielded him like some kind of weapon.

**and like, I know Jack didn’t turn to dark magic for the exact same reason Mac did—Mac was an abuse survivor who wanted to stop feeling powerless and became excessively power-hungry in the process, while Jack is an all-powerful being who hates feeling powerless and also explicitly feels that not using his power for others is selfish and wrong, which in turn drives him to become power-hungry specifically for the sake of others and doing things for them: resorting to potent and unstable necromancy just to bring Mary back for Sam and Dean; drawing on + destroying his soul just to kill Michael for everyone he’s ever cared about and because he personally hates Michael, using the fullest extent of his power to excruciatingly kill Nick and Duma’s targets for Sam and Dean, becoming a living God-destroying bomb just so he can make amends for his actions, etc.

and that’s his personal cycle of violence. that’s the cycle both he and his family explicitly weaponize for their benefit.

Mac’s cycle was seeking more and more power, becoming more and more violent as a result of his past abuse and helplessness, and instead of helping him with that initial trauma like TFW sort of did, Mary’s aunt (?) and her circle of hunters fully enabled him to seek out more power and be useful to them, and when he became what they let him become, they blew up a cave with him inside. buried him, similarly to how Jack was “buried” in the Ma’lak box after the state of soullessness and Michael-blinker that Sam and Dean were both responsible for and complicit in, made him an unstoppable threat. (although to their credit, TFW does make some effort to break it by repeatedly telling Jack that he doesn’t need to be strong or helpful to be valued/loved by them, and they do make efforts to help him, but they also don’t exactly stop him from seeking/gaining power depending on the long term goal and they really only help him after he’s already suffered the ‘inevitable fate’ of the monster they created in him).

ultimately the episode ends with Lata convincing Mac to destroy his cycle, to choose peace and move on from the past instead of dwelling on resentment and becoming as angry and violent as his abusers, and Mary’s relative (i rlly don’t remember her name I’m sorry) says that she has a lot of work to do if she’s going to make it right, even if she can’t undo what she did, which i feel is a very solid parallel to Dean [and Sam] working to make amends with Jack.

I know that Dean didn’t create this alternate universe and isn’t a controlling force like Chuck, but given that he’s the narrator and blatantly speaks from his experiences as The Monster Club goes through them, I can’t help but think that all of these parallels to Jack (between Tony and Mac and even a few things with John that I’ll post about later), are on purpose. …

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restlesshush · 2 years

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People talk about how refridging Mary to make Dean want to kill Jack in the soulless Jack arc was a really shitty thing to do, and it was, but the thing is I don’t think that’s even quite what happened, writing-decision-wise. Refridging Mary is not only not necessary for the soulless Jack arc to work, it also actively makes it less effective as a storyline, specifically in ways that seem to clash with what was otherwise being set up. Which makes it look like they didn’t kill her to serve their plot, given they actively made their story worse by writing her out.

(Edit: I’m not going to speculate as to what was going on with Sam Smith because I don’t know, but approx 1400 words under the cut about what I think was happening writing-wise)

Anyway so this is all based on an initial theory from @autisticandroids (who also asked me to write this post, hi!) that the way Mary’s death was handled makes it look like the sort of character death that happens because of an actor having to be written out, rather than one the writers really wanted to do otherwise. And once you’re primed to be thinking about this, 14x18 especially does really come off as the show scrambling to try and make her death hit, which is sort of the opposite of what fridgings are for – they’re normally thought of as being a low-effort way to pack an emotional punch. But because we’ve kind of barely seen her all season (she’s in less than a third of episodes), and because this is Mary so if we’re going to kill her again it has to hit, they feel compelled to spend time giving us a couple of slightly on the nose flashbacks to try and make sure we care. It’s the sort of work you’d normally do before you kill a character, rather than slightly messily afterwards to try and make their death look worthwhile, which is really how it comes off here.

And the thing is, it’s not just that it’s kind of messy – it doesn’t actually help facilitate the soulless Jack arc at all really, instead it actively distracts from it. Obviously this is true in terms of screen time, because we have to take time away from Jack stuff for the flashbacks and for Mary’s funeral, but also in terms of the story’s focus. The interesting thread here is “someone we care about is ~dangerous now, what might we have to do to stop them??”, which is pretty decently well-trodden ground for spn, which you could easily have done just based on the snake and burning Nick alive on their own. And then in theory, this would all be made extra tragic by the fact that it was Jack saving them from Michael that even put him in that position, but we barely lean into this because we’re so focussed on Sam and especially Dean’s reactions to Mary’s death. Like, that thread does even still gets pulled on a little bit! You have Dumah's “he lost his capacity for good through an act of goodness” – and that’s what’s actually compelling here. But it’s barely touched on really, because if you’re going to kill Mary, that’s what you have to focus on, or at least that’s what the show seems to be convinced of. Nick even explicitly says it in 14x18 – “Buddy, you killed Mary Winchester. You cannot come back from that.” So we get hung up on an accidental death that could easily have just happened while Jack had his soul, instead of the actual implications of Jack’s soullessness beyond that.

Everything with Mary’s death also obviously makes Dean come off less sympathetically (and not in an interesting way), if he’s motivated by revenge, rather than genuine concern about what Jack might do. In part because of the revenge motive, he seems to take a genuine vicious satisfaction in tricking Jack into the box, for example, whereas if it was more a tragic last resort for how to deal with this very difficult situation, it would make for a much more nuanced and interesting situation, that would hit much harder.

And this isn’t the only way in which the restructuring of the arc to accommodate Mary’s death has implications re Dean’s character. It does look like they were setting Jack up as a Dean parallel here, which obviously if he’s killed Mary, it’s hard for him to be in the same way anymore. There’s a really good post somewhere which I’m annoyed I can’t find about how good leaders don’t ask their subordinates to do things they wouldn’t do themselves, and how Dean would do insane things and so thinks it’s reasonable ask his subordinates to do them too. The post explicitly cites Jack in the Box and iirc also Moriah (edit: it was this post and it cites Jack in the Box and Unity) as examples of this, and while it’s a really interesting piece of character analysis, it’s kind of striking when trying to think about writing decisions that 1) this stuff would be strengthened if Jack was still in the category of people Dean could see himself in, which because he’s killed Mary, he can’t be and 2) by drawing the parallels it draws, it also points out that “oh hey! The writers have chosen to put Jack in situations that Dean has also notably been in! What does this tell us?”

Moriah is probably the less strong of the two examples re just the situation, but the thing is that in addition to Dean effectively asking Jack to be prepared to die for the good of the world like he has before, the obvious thematic use of a mechanic like the Equalizer is “by killing this person you are killing yourself not only literally but also figuratively”. Like, something something supernatural and wasted potential goes without saying, but they did presumably come up with that object for a reason, y’know? But then Mary’s death and the revenge motive means that Moriah doesn't come anywhere near to playing like Dean killing himself on two levels even though like… what is the point of that gun otherwise? It almost feels like a fossil from a different story. And then the situation re the Ma’lak box is very similar. @autisticandroids pointed out to me separately a while ago that Jack is becoming Dean in ouroboros – “I am a winchester + eating michael + being destined for the box” – and also that were it not for the vengeance motive things would very much more come across as “oh my god dean’s putting himself in the box”, which y'know would be both hard-hitting and also the sort of thing spn loves to do.

And it’s also what they’ve been setting up! Like, you go from Dean having something dangerous inside him that means he might have to be locked up or killed, to Jack ending up in that position instead, specifically via him fixing Dean’s issue! It's even him specifically who directly argues for killing Dean to protect the world from Michael in 14x02! There’s a lot of groundwork there for them as parallels in s14 which Mary’s death undermines – the season is just structurally way tighter and more thematically resonant if you take it out. Getting rid of Mary’s death and the revenge motive for Dean (leaving a tension between concern about Jack vs concern about the world in its place) also meshes way better with the way they originally set up the stuff with Jack’s soul too, where it’s meant to be a sad thing for him, that he would no longer be himself etc. And like, that’s arguably partly because it’s Yockey handling it and he’s the only writer who cares about Jack, but it is still what was being set up. “Jack died –> the mechanism we used to bring him back allowed him to burn off his soul to be useful –> he’s dangerous as a result of this and oh god we have to do something about it” is way neater and more compelling as a trajectory if you don’t throw in “also he accidentally killed our mother and so Dean sort of wants him dead because of that too”. There’s a disconnect between the obvious route to take this story and then end result, and Mary’s death seems to be the thing lying behind it.

So yeah, Mary’s death was a bad writing decision not just because it’s not worth refridging her for the sake of the soulless Jack arc (which it definitely isn’t), but also specifically because it actively makes the soulless Jack arc worse. Obviously misogyny was frequently a driving force behind writing decisions on spn, but it doesn’t look like it was here in the way people seem to assume. It doesn’t look like they were killing a woman in order to serve our story – instead, the story has been actively derailed by them killing a woman. Which does really make it seem like that’s not why they wrote her out.

#also stream the secret good soulless jack arc that exists in my head #where i make it way better in part by not killing mary #jack kline #mary winchester #dean winchester #spn s14 #spn 14x20 #spn 14x14 #spn 14x18 #spn 14x19 #spn meta #suicide mention #worded thoughts #spn

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mybrainproblems · 1 year

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11x23 will always be everything to me for the mlpnatural of it all

#it's just the nightmare moon arc! i will say this forever!#like i'm sorry that i've become a massive dabb apologist but this is one of the things his era Understood.#cycles of violence *can* be broken if we choose. we can choose to make friends and allies out of enemies.#however. the choice for these and for a happy ending may also be out of your hands due to a petulant hack writer god #14x20 is such a meta brick to the face like having watched s15 and then going back to watch moriah? oh they were SICK.#i have Thoughts and Theories about the writing timeline but the sudden 'everything goes to shit and god is the ultimate villain'#when going into the final season where the story got shafted? oh boy. brain worms galore.#spn

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chuckwon · 1 year

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"They didn’t miraculously outsmart Chuck. It’s all his plan that unfolds like a magic trick, and it works. He takes away everything and everyone else in the world, ensuring that the one course of action left– his planned course of action–is the one that the brothers will take. They forget the power of their free will and feel they have no other choice.

Jack’s sacrifice is completed as he supposedly becomes the 'new God,' but he actually 'dies.' As he told Cas in 15x15, 'God and Amara will cease to exist, and I won’t survive,' and that’s still exactly what happens.

. . . This is where the rest comes in: regardless of the mechanics of the plot’s specifics in 15x19–whether Jack is literally dead, simply caged in his own mind as Chuck uses him as a vessel, altered/corrupted by the God powers within him, or some similar variation–Chuck’s influence remains. Chuck deliberately removes himself from the story, but nothing of significance changes, either in the structure of the universe he created or in the brothers’ lives. And not only does Chuck get the ending he orchestrated in regards to Jack, but his ending for the story also punishes the Winchesters shortly thereafter."

–THE HOW: Chuck’s Method of Victory

Deeply apologize for insufferably quoting my own meta, but it's for the sake of expediency because I just want to put this thought / clarification out there right now and I've only got a few minutes!

(Standard disclaimer that I'm speaking from solely my perspective on the mechanics of a potential "Chuck won" plotline, aka I do not have a monopoly on this analysis or theory and others are free to disagree with my POV. The fact that I have this blog does not mean I'm positioning myself as an Authority on the matter.)

In terms of the plot (as in the literal things and not the metaphorical)... the idea that Chuck won is not beholden to the idea that the way to convey that concept or run with must literally include Chuck being inside of Jack's body. That's one possibility, and it just happens to be one that I tend to gravitate to when imagining potential for storylines. But the exact “method” if you will has several options. Maybe Chuck took over Jack, or maybe he knew the God power would corrupt Jack, or so on and so forth.

The idea of Chuck winning (in terms of the literal events) is essentially that...

A) God power should not have personhood. The fact that it does at the "end" of the story is inherently a problem based on everything the Supernatural universe has put forth thematically, literally right up until the end in 15x17.

B) What happens to Jack–him becoming the "new god"–isn’t okay. It's awful and it was Chuck’s plan or aim all along as part of the "Abraham & Isaac" ending he desired: the father sacrificing his own son.

C) Therefore, Jack needs saving (in some fashion) through his family making it clear that he’s loved for who he is not what he is, and that he never needed to prove himself or earn their forgiveness. By "his family" I specifically mean Sam and Dean, as they are the ones who unintentionally sacrificed Jack. Or, to reference SPNWIN 1x06,

"So you had a friend stuck in a cycle of violence, and instead of helping him, you wielded him like some kind of weapon?"

Sam and Dean needed to have told Jack something along the lines of what Mary tells John in that episode:

"I still want to get out of hunting. I really do. But it's not gonna be at your expense."

D) What happens to Jack–WHATEVER the specifics–embodies the cycles of violence on the micro and macro levels. He is a son who is burdened with the expectations of his fathers. He is also the grandson of Chuck/God and in the end he could not escape the fate of becoming him.

Sam and Dean may not have meant to “kill” Jack, but they did anyway between 15x17 and 15x19 because Jack was sacrificed on the altar of their hopes, struggles, and expectations. It plays right into Chuck’s favorite themes and ideal ending. In Chuck’s words from 14x20, it’s “the father killing his own son,” otherwise known as “Abraham and Issac.”

Jack’s sacrifice fits perfectly into an unbroken cycle of violence that Chuck embodied and that was embedded into the DNA of Supernatural as a story from day one. Breaking that cycle once and for all was the only avenue to true victory, but in the end, the cycle remains intact. In-narrative and out-of-narrative, the story and characters were not allowed to fully grow beyond it —which is why it’s important to understand the breadth of these themes in order to understand the reasoning behind the writing of Chuck’s canonical victory.

How the future authors or any future sequel may or may not run with all of this in terms of a plot–is Chuck using Jack as a vessel, and if so, is Jack alive or dead? Or is Chuck not involved and this is a consequence he left behind as part of the tragedy, and the God power itself corrupting Jack and he has to be convinced into giving it up? etc.–the baseline idea is the same.

My point in bringing this up is that "something's wrong with Jack"–which I think many people are picking up on anew in the SPNWIN finale–is enough to be getting on with :)

#I wrote this soooo fast I hope it makes sense #the winchesters #spnwin #the winchesters meta #spnwin meta #chuck won theory #chuck won meta #jack kline #my meta

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spnmarchmadness · 1 year

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LETS GO SPORTS FANS

the official ranks are in. if you want to participate in the bracket contest (its free. the prize will be the valor that comes from a job well done), you can do so here.

if you just want to make a bracket for funsies, here’s a google sheet with the intial match ups seeded. The full seeding list is below the cut!

1. 5x22: Swan Song 2. 5x08: Changing Channels 3. 6x15: The French Mistake 4. 13x16: ScoobyNatural 5. 3x11: Mystery Spot 6. 2x22: All Hell Breaks Loose: Part 2 7. 4x01: Lazarus Rising 8. 10x05: Fan Fiction 9. 11x04: Baby 10. 11x20: Don't Call Me Shurley 11. 2x20: What Is and What Should Never Be 12. 3x12: Jus in Bello 13. 4x22: Lucifer Rising 14. 8x23: Sacrifice 15. 9x23: Do You Believe in Miracles? 16. 14x13: Lebanon 17. 14x20: Moriah 18. 1x22: Devil's Trap 19. 2x01: In My Time of Dying 20. 3x03: Bad Day at Black Rock 21. 3x16: No Rest for the Wicked 22. 4x18: The Monster at the End of This Book 23. 4x03: In the Beginning 24. 5x10: Abandon All Hope... 25. 5x21: Two Minutes to Midnight 26. 7x10: Death's Door 27. 11x09: O Brother Where Art Thou? 28. 2x15: Tall Tales 29. 2x21: All Hell Breaks Loose: Part 1 30. 4x16: On the Head of a Pin 31. 4x06: Yellow Fever 32. 5x04: The End 33. 6x20: The Man Who Would Be King 34. 8x17: Goodbye Stranger 35. 1x12: Faith 36. 12x10: Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets 37. 5x14: My Bloody Valentine 38. 5x03: Free to Be You and Me 39. 4x20: The Rapture 40. 13x06: Tombstone 41. 14x14: Ouroboros 42. 3x13: Ghostfacers 43. 7x17: The Born-Again Identity 44. 8x11: LARP and the Real Girl 45. 7x20: The Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo 46. 15x09: The Trap 47. 12x11: Regarding Dean 48. 6x04: Weekend at Bobby's 49. 12x06: Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox 50. 8x08: Hunteri Heroici 51. 5x16: Dark Side of the Moon 52. 13x05: Advanced Thanatology 53. 1x06: Skin 54. 9x18: Meta Fiction 55. 10x22: The Prisoner 56. 15x18: Despair 57. 14x04: Mint Condition 58. 2x13: Houses of the Holy 59. 9x06: Heaven Can't Wait 60. 15x15: Gimme Shelter 61. 3x08: A Very Supernatural Christmas 62. 10x14: The Executioner's Song 63. 14x10: Nihilism 64. 11x14: The Vessel

#spn #spnmarchmadness #supernatural polls #spnfamily #supernatural #dean winchester #sam winchester #castiel

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destielbait · 7 months

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I've queued the elimination round nominations i could find - I'm missing

Cas’ grace as a spell ingredient in a love ingredient based spell (8x23 slash the tail end of season 8)

When Jack implements the truth spell while Dean and Cas are fighting we get a gay couple fighting and a married couple telling their child that it's not their fault they're divorcing (14x20)

if anyone has a link to these scenes as gifsets, or tumblr videos, (or meta's for the more abstract ones) I'd be much obliged!

#op post

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spneveryseason · 2 years

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Ghosts, Growth, And the God Bullet Wound: A Season 15 Retrospective

I created my blog all the way back in October 2019 for the sole purpose of talking about season fifteen and where it was going, and two and a half years on I have some thoughts about what we actually ended up getting. This isn’t going to be in any particular order and just some scattered thoughts of the direction that season ended up taking

The Equalizer

Let’s start with one of the most disappointing plot drops of the season: the equalizer and the god bullet wound.

Supernatural has a tendency to try to escalate the stakes of every season by introducing an insanely powerful new tool, villain, or element into the upcoming season, and for s15, it brought about the equalizer during 14x20. But this time, with the context of Chuck’s return, the equalizer had a more pressing impact: it had created a connection between Sam and God after Sam shot him in the shoulder with it.

The possibilities of this move were literally endless. Firstly, there was the angle of ending the season with the doomed, demon connected vessel of Lucifer having a literal connection to God, which would have been a great bookend and shoutout to the earlier seasons. On a similar note, this could have (and came close to) bringing back Sam’s psychic powers, leading to closure on one of the most interesting plot lines of the earlier seasons. This also could’ve been used in a big way to end the show; a literal Chekhov’s gun that would return as the tool to conclude the show. For a while I truly believed the show would end with Dean shooting a God-connected Sam, killing them both but finally getting rid of God and saving the world in return.

Obviously, none of that happened. Instead, the equalizer was promptly removed from the story less than halfway through, and with it Sam’s God connection was sealed off. I was thoroughly disappointed with how this turned out because it started so promisingly and then fizzled out.

What I would have done: had the equalizer wound slowly leak God’s power to Sam, allowing him to be dethroned and keeping the wound relevant

The Return of the Ghosts

This was another element introduced in 14x20 Moriah that ended much too early. Ending the fourteenth season by bringing back the ghost of everything they’ve ever hunted (including the woman in white from the pilot episode) was a really interesting move and could’ve been a wonderful opportunity to revisit some things. Ultimately, the role of and atmosphere surrounding the ghosts have changed so drastically since the show started that seeing them again in later seasons context could’ve been really interesting! This could’ve functioned both as a shoutout to where the show began and an acknowledgement to how much it has grown.

Instead, we got a three episode arc dealing with these releases, and ultimately did not deal with them with any complexity or understanding. I don’t necessarily have an issue with the storyline ending quickly (although I would’ve preferred it to stick around longer) if the ending would’ve made sense. But this concept was not used to the fullest extent it could’ve been, and honestly these ghosts could’ve been replaced with any random ghost that they had never encountered before. Even the ally ghosts (Kevin mostly) were not given a proper resolution. As with the Equalizer, this was a great idea that was summarily ignored.

What I would have done: had the released ghosts and monsters remain an issue throughout the season. Every monster of the week would be one of their old hunts, and each episode would demonstrate how much they’ve changed and put some things into question for them. Bonus points of Sam’s burgeoning god powers make an appearance.

Chuck as Author

I was so excited for Chuck’s role in the show after the events of 14x20 Moriah, and even more so during the first few episodes of season 15. The setup here was this meta exploration of Chuck-as-God, indicating that the show had run on for so long because Chuck got obsessed with continuing the story. Therefore, the writer is the ultimate villain of Supernatural, which in my opinion was just a brilliant move. So this gave us a bit of a complicated setup, because they now have to figure out how to defeat literal God without dying and also without destroying the world as a result.

There was a bit more established here than with the previous plot points, and there were some interesting moments regarding the Chuck-as-author scenario across the season (destroying the alternate universes, etc). However, I feel like the ultimate conclusion did fall a little flat, and the setup of the Winchesters dealing with the psychological fallout that was established earlier in the season didn’t really come through. I wish they had used the dropped plot lines to really round out this storyline and really make it stand out in the season and the show as a whole.

What I would have done: focused more on God slowly losing his abilities and losing his omnipotence, freaking out about it, and ultimately losing his title entirely (basically same as canon but more focused).

Castiel

Now, Cas. Cas is in an interesting position by the time we get to the end of season 14: at odds with the Winchesters in defense of Jack. The start of season 15 continues this trend, and has Dean specifically decide not to forgive Cas. This puts him in a season long journey of reconciliation, acceptance, and then processing his love for Dean before exiting the narrative.

I don’t have an issue with this storyline in theory, but in practice it’s a little….underdone. The forgiveness angle seemed a little one sided from Dean’s perspective (Cas’ perspective is not elaborated on nor is it discussed in any real depth). Further, his relationship with Jack (the source of his tension with Dean) is expounded upon but not expanded until the last possible minute (ruling Heaven alongside him). His 15x18 confession would be more effective if they explicitly pointed to this coming to fruition, or approached it in a way that would not be hand wavey to general audiences (which it was). So I guess my criticism here is more was needed for Cas, especially for this final season.

What I would have done: Kept Cas’ anger in the forefront, and had him genuinely get mad/yell at the Winchesters. I also would have more clearly signposted Cas’ feelings for Dean (what was done is canon was not sufficient for general audiences. You have to make that super clear for this to work)

Dean

Dean is the main lens with which we view this show, and this in itself is a bit of an issue. The show has had some trouble in the past with sitting back and letting him make mistakes, admit he made mistakes, and heal from said mistakes. Going into season 15, he had just held back from shooting Jack, and started the season mourning his mother and being furious at Cas as a result. What I thought was then going to be a in depth look at his emotional state (caused by Chuck’s betrayal and Dean’s subsequent existential crisis) just…fizzled out. Instead, the latter half of the season saw no emotional development or change for Dean after forgiving Cas. We had two significant moments in the latter half that could have gone somewhere: 1. Amara’s revelation about Mary and 2. His behavior in 15x17 Unity. I liked both of these directions but was frustrated by the fact that they just kinda…happen and then are never mentioned again. There was a lot we could’ve done with Dean going in (especially regarding mourning Mary and the previous two plot points I mentioned) but unfortunately the show doesn’t give him space to grow like that.

What I would have done: Had some sort of past consequence catch up, like Amy’s son from season 7 returning, and drive home some revelation about himself that would lead to changed behavior. This change would also be spurred by Mary’s death + Amara’s revelation and also 15x17 Unity. After this he would make a significant decision that would have huge ramifications for the end of the show.

Sam

Sam’s goals and motivations have been tamped down on in later seasons, and season 15 would’ve been a great time to spotlight them going into the show’s conclusion. Much of the season 15 setup regarding Sam referenced his early season roles: a vessel for power and trouble, and the site for supernatural influence. This could’ve been an interesting opportunity to lean back on that role, but also subvert it: have Sam’s body remain the site of supernatural influence but have him finally start to take some of the control back. Having it be God’s power would certainly have been a way to highlight this dichotomy, and it could’ve been an opportunity to have him address the autonomy issues he’s been having for years. Ultimately, the God power storyline ended much too soon, and Sam remained relatively voiceless across the season. We concluded the story with him on his own, giving up a life of hunting and dying of natural causes. While I’ll get to the finale later, it would’ve made it sense if we’d seen more of Sam and this ending signposted on earlier in the season

What I would have done: I would’ve kept the god bullet wound d a big storyline for Sam, and had his powers return as a consequence. He then would’ve had to directly deal with the feeling did monsterhood that he’s had from the first season

Amara and Billie

These are two characters whose stories were completely co-opted by the leads, which was a shame because both had a lot of promise. With Billie, we were given the set up of seeing her with Jack in the Empty, clearly ready to upend the system that God existed in so that she could restore order to the universe. With Amara, we were given a recontextualized approach to her due to the new revelations of what God was actually like, highlighting further that she was badly treated by her family. Therefore, both characters were poised to return to correct a few wrongs done to them and in the process create a new relationship with the protagonists.

None of this happened. Instead, Billie was given a villain arc across the season, which wouldn’t have been as much of an issue if it wasn’t so out of character for her. She was established to be someone who sought order for the universe, and her detour into power seeking felt out of nowhere and out of character. She was mostly used to provide Cas’ big moment in 15x18, which didn’t feel like a good conclusion to her character or motivations at all. With Amara, we had the baffling decision of Dean to manipulate her in order to take down God, have that manipulation fail, and then have God absorb her (which didn’t even play that big a role in the plot). She left the story unavenged and used, and didn’t play a role that would’ve given her more agency and acknowledged the events of season 11.

What I would have done: With Billie, I would’ve had her ally with the Winchester & co as part of a big alliance of past and present characters to take on the one guy they all want to take down: God. I would’ve had her continue to play the role of Death and establish order in the universe once again. With Amara, I would’ve had her play a larger role in trapping god (maybe eventually taking on his role via bullet wound leeching from Sam) and then moving on with her life! Just getting the hell out of there

Heaven and the Angels

We left Heaven in dire straits at the end of season 14. Angels were all but extinct and Heaven barely populated. On the other side, we had every archangel dead and thus a huge power vacuum was present in Heaven. With God going rogue at the end of season 14, the role of Heaven and the angels was this called into question: would they side with God? Against him? How would they increase the angel population?

This plotline was pretty much straight up ignored. All we got was a throwaway reference in the finale of the ways Jack changed the way Heaven worked. We saw Michael and Lucifer again, and both were killed pretty quick. Otherwise, we saw absolutely nothing.

What I would have done: At least acknowledged what was going on in Heaven, and set up the issues so that Jack’s solution would have been signposted earlier. I probably wouldn’t have brought back any archangels either, or if I did I would’ve infused more complexity into the daddy issues they have over God.

The Ending

Now. The finale.

I’ve been fairly critical of season 15 across this post, so logically this should mean I’m also critical of the finale, correct? Well…yes. And no.

For me, it depends on perspective. Was the finale disappointing from the perspective of the season 15 I was expecting to be set up at the end of season 14? Yeah. Was this finale hugely underwhelming when compared to what season 15 could have been? Also yeah. The epic story of free will and power and God and family that season 15 could have been didn’t come to pass, and the finale did not reflect that sense of scale. Sure, there were things that did come to pass (major character death, a change in lifestyle, etc) but they weren’t in context of what came before them.

However. The season 15 I wanted is not the season 15 that we got. And the finale is, in my opinion, a good to great episode based on the season 15 that we got. Sure, there are issues. Sure, we could’ve seen more of what happened to Cas and Jack as well as their other allies. Sure, Sam’s ultimate fate could’ve been left more ambiguous. But, with the season 15 that had been established since around episode 12, it was the logical conclusion we reached. In practice, nothing particularly unexpected or exciting happened, with even the character deaths feeling fairly low key. I think this fit with what the season was aiming for and where it was going. In that context, I did like the finale for the most part.

My 26th birthday celebration day 1: the god bullet wound OR Bastille’s discography

#speaks #spn #supernatural #spn meta #spn analysis #sam winchester #dean winchester #castiel #Jack Kline #Chuck shurley #anases26

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cpopnatural · 3 months

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14x20 Notes

-TRIPLE WALL SLAM

-oh my god Destiel fight hahaha

-Sam looks like he wants to cry oh my god

-he can’t lie hahahahahahahaha

-stop this is a perfect thing I have no notes

-CROWLEY WE MISS YOU

-CHUCK?

-he just Naruto runs away????

-Dean bashing God’s guitar hahahaha

-the writers are NOT allowed to call the British Men of Letters storyline weak

-bro

-cas hitting car.gif

-awwwwwwww that’s his SON

-God hanging around the area he gave you the quest like an NPC is funny

-“you’re my favorite show” is so real

-this is sooooo 6x20 core good god

-THE VIRGIN MARY BETWEEN THEM

-HE LOWERS HIS GUN MOMENTARILY

-HE LOWERS IT

-kinda iconic lines from Sam tbh

-No NO NOOOOOO

-Sam shooting God was so badass

-the burned out eyes…

-his wings…

-HELL????

-so EVERYTHING supernatural is back

This was really good. I really enjoy the dumb meta stuff, and the stakes and everything were actually really good? Like woah??? The part about the zombie apocalypse was kinda weird tbh but this was probably one of the best finales of the show 8/10

#min finishes spn

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verobatto · 3 years

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Destiel Chronicles

Vol. CXX

It was a love story from the very beginning.

Destiel Fight Intensifies

(14x19/14x20)

Hi there! And we finally reach season 14 ending!

Just one more season and we will be finishing this project.

Remember this meta is a summary of my analysis from season 14.

You can find my season 14 metas from these episodes in the following links: X, X, X, X, X, X and X.

The Promise that broke Destiel

Episode 19 was full of drama after Mary's death.

Dean avoiding talking with Sam and Castiel, but crying alone in the woods.

But what I want to point here the cause of Castiel and Dean's quarrel: Jack (the promise to Kelly).

Castiel's mission is his promise to Kelly, so from the beginning, he marks the limit. He won't hurt Jack. He will help him and guide him.

Before continue with this topic, let's talk about visual narrative related to the Destiel break up. Pay attention to how Dean and Castiel are placed in the following frames...

Gifset credit @agusvedder

Another frame that shows Dean and Castiel in different pages is this one:

Yes... At the same time. Avoidance. Negation. No hands here. Not now. One in front, the other looking backwards.

In the other hand, Sam and Castiel are in the same perspective related to Jack and how they need to save him and not to kill him.

Coming back to the fact that Castiel puts Jack before Dean, it's because there was a change of priorities since Jack showed Castiel the future, since Castiel became a dad.

Jack is like the newborn baby coming up to a young couple. Suddenly, the father felt a little left over, and jealous. It's the same situation here.

14x19: Dean and Sam locked Jack on the Mal'ak box. Second big fight between Dean and Castiel for that.

Destiel Fight Intensifies

14x20: Dean and Cas fought twice bc of Jack... And interesting clues about what was going on in Dean's head right now... we have this...

Gifset credit @agusvedder

Then Castiel pushed Dean with his shoulder, in an obvious way to show him how mad he is. He even squeezes his teeth. And then Dean stays there not turning around... That hurts for him... Castiel still being loyal to Jack after what he did. It hurts seeing Castiel pushing him that way and not being with him this time in this battle. Castiel choose Jack and that hurts to Dean.

The camera focused on Sam, showing us his suffering about the situation.

And then we will have Dean depressed, drinking in a dark room, after this fight.

Mirror Universe

There was a lot of visual elements and mirrors in Mirror Universe. One of the most significant that showed us the fact that Castiel puts Jack (the promise) before Dean was the following:

Gifset credit @agusvedder

The man in blue (Castiel mirror) confessing his secret love to that wan in red (Dean) but his name is Jack... And Dean face here is... Yeah... Jack. Ok. You said you love me but now is only Jack for you. And he turn off the TV, one: bc it was a love confession and he isn't ready yet for that. And two, bc it reminds him Castiel's love confession when Jack wasn't there... And now things are different.

... or walk away

Another scene in which this quarrel intensifies is when Dean gives Castiel the chance to choose (and Castiel picks Jack again).

CAS: There has to be another way.

DEAN: Well, there's not. Now, I know you don't like it, and I don't really care. 'Cause you just heard it from God Himself that this (picking up the gun) is the only thing that can kill Jack, so either get on board, or walk away.

(Cas leaves the room)

There's a pause Dean made before saying OR WALK AWAY. He didn't want to say that. He is the first that wants him there. By his side. He is the first that suffers each time Castiel disappear of the bunker. Not... He doesn't want to say those words... But he pushed Cas to make a decision again between him and Jack. And he loses again.

To Conclude:

Episode 14x19 but mostly, 14x20 showed us the Destiel break up that was foreshadowed the whole season.

Castiel's priorities changing are evident at the end of season 14, with a dramatic ending with Jack's death.

This break up will be elaborated more in the last season.

Hope you liked this summary, see you in the next one!

Tagging @magnificent-winged-beast @emblue-sparks @weirddorkylittlediana @michyribeiro @whyjm @legendary-destiel @a-bit-of-influence @thatwitchydestielfan @misha-moose-dean-burger-lover @lykanyouko @evvvissticante @savannadarkbaby @dea-stiel @poorreputation @bre95611 @thewolfathedoor @charlottemanchmal @neii3n @deathswaywardson @followyourenergy @dean-is-bi-till-i-die @hekatelilith-blog @avidbkwrm @anarchiana @dickpuncher365 @vampyrosa @authorsararayne @mybonsai1976 @love-neve-dies @dustythewind @wayward-winchester67 @angelwithashotgunandtrenchcoat @trashblackrainbow @deeutdutdutdoh @destiel-shipper-11 @larrem88 @charmedbycastiel @ran-savant @little-crazy-misha-minion @samoosetheshipper

@shadows-and-padlocked-hearts @mishtho @dancingtuesdaymorning @nerditoutwithbooks @mikennacac73 @justmeand-myinsight @idontwantpeopletoknowmyname @teddybeardoctor @pepevons @helevetica @dizzypinwheel @horsez2 @qanelyytha

@destielle @spnsmile @shippsblog @robot-feels @superlock-in-the-tardis @superduckbatrebel @belacoded @madronasky @anon-non2 @cea1996 @lisafu02 @asphodelesauvage @deancasgirl777

If you want to be added or removed from this list just let me know.

If you wanna read the previous metas from season 14 here you have the links:

Vol. CIX, CX, CXI, CXII, CXIII, CXIV, CXV, CXVI, CXVII, CXVIII, CXIX.

Buenos Aires July 4th 2021 11:37 AM

#destiel #destiel chronicles #destiel meta #supernatural #supernatural meta #season 14 meta #14x19 meta #14x20 meta

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postmodernmulticoloredcloak · 3 years

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The shifting narrative of God’s interventism and how it reflects on the narrative on John

This post will ignore the issue authorial intent entirely because I can, but it’s also about authorial intent in a way, but I also don’t like to talk about things as happening “accidentally” because a) a serialized story like Supernatural, especially one that got renewed for much longer than anyone could possibly expect or hope in their wildest ambitions, structurally relies on serendipity, because that’s how stories work when they’re work in progress, b) a television show is an extremely multi-authored text and the chance that something happens out of the intent of any of the multiple layers of creators is kind of... statistically negligible. So, yeah, that’s my stance on the topic. Anyway.

The shifting narrative about God is simultaneously something that hangs on fortunate storytelling clicks on an essentially programmed narrative. At first, we don’t know where the fuck God is. Cas starts looking for him with little success. Raphael says he’s dead, Cas doesn’t believe it. Dean relates to his struggle because he knows the feeling of not knowing where the fuck your father is and going looking for him with little success, not knowing if he’s even alive. Then the theory that gets assumed as the truth is that God has left. He fucked off who knows where, who knows why, leaving his creation to struggle alone. Also essentially how Dean had felt after John had died; in that case there was guilt for his demon deal and everything, but the most cruel weight on Dean’s shoulder was that John left him alone to struggle with his devastatingly horrific instructions he doesn’t understand. The angels are also left with horrific instructions they don’t understand. No wonder Cas does his own ‘demon deal’ in season 6, as he desperately tries to do what he assumes his father wants from him, but he doesn’t actually know what that is.

“God has left” is maddening, and everyone is angry about it, but it has its own dignity. God has left us without clear instructions, we are confused and in pain and evil runs amock but at least, we suppose, the evil of it is our own doing. We are alone and we do our best, our best is simply not enough. We wish he gave us guidance, but he won’t. He wants us to figure it out ourselves, possibly. We don’t actually know what he wants. But maybe that’s the point. It’s possible he doesn’t even know what’s happening, he just has left the building entirely.

But then Chuck reveals himself. We find out that he never actually left. He was there. “I like front row seats. You know, I figured I’d hide out in plain sight”. He simply chooses not to intervene. He chooses not to answer. He chooses to be hands-off. He presents himself as a laissez-faire parent, because, he says, it’s better for his children to have the responsibility they need to grow up. He’s absent, but in a different way than we thought! It’s not that he doesn’t know what’s happening or isn’t interested in knowing what’s happening. He’s here, he knows what’s happening, he just stays there and watches as you stumble and struggle and scream. It’s worse, and it pains Dean so much he isn’t even afraid to yell at God. You know we’re suffering and you just don’t give us any support, any comfort.

You’re frustrated. I get it. Believe me, I was hands-on, real hands-on, for, wow, ages. I was so sure if I kept stepping in, teaching, punishing, that these beautiful creatures that I created... would grow up. But it only stayed the same. And I saw that I needed to step away and let my baby find its way. Being overinvolved is no longer parenting. It’s enabling.

But it didn’t get better.

Well, I’ve been mulling it over. And from where I sit, I think it has.

Well, from where I sit, it feels like you left us and you’re trying to justify it.

I know you had a complicated upbringing, Dean, but don’t confuse me with your dad.

At that point of the show, the writing team almost certainly didn’t have the s14-15 twist in mind. So this was probably intended to be Chuck’s truth. Later it gets twisted (retconned?) into a lie, but about that later.

Here, Chuck is really good at manipulating the conversation. Dean has a perfectly valid point, because there IS a middle ground between being overinvolved and not being involved at all. There is a middle ground between enabling your children and abandoning them completely. But Chuck hits Dean where it hurts, plays the emotional card, basically tells him that he’s too emotional to understand, too emotional to think rationally about it, because he mixes his feelings about his father to the issue and thus cannot see it clearly. He basically tells him he’s too close to it to get it. You don’t understand parenting, Dean, because you’re too blinded by your emotions about your own little life and cannot see the big picture.

It doesn’t really matter here if he’s telling the truth or lying, it already says a lot about Chuck that he’s emotionally manipulating Dean, silencing him by hitting the painful spot.

But the thing is, 11.20 immediately presents Chuck as a liar. He makes Metatron read his autobiography and the very first line is a lie (“In the beginning, there was me. Boom – detail. And what a grabber. I mean, I’m hooked, and I was there.” “I’m hooked too, and yet... details. You weren’t alone in the beginning. Your sister was with you.”) and the stuff he talks about his experience as Chuck is not exactly truthful about anything (“That, you know, makes you seem like a really grounded, likable person.” “Yeah, what’s wrong with that?” “You are neither grounded nor a person!”). Metatron calls him out (“Okay. There are two types of memoir. One is honest... the other, not so much. Truth and fairy tale. Now, do you want to write Life by Keith Richards? Or do you want to write Wouldn’t It Be Nice by Brian Wilson?”). Chuck SAYS he chooses truth and gives Metatron a different manuscript, supposedly containing the truth, to which Metatron reacts positively. Metatron believes it, and we believe it with him.

Oh! Oh, this! This is what I was talking about. Chapter Ten “Why I Never Answer Prayers, and You Should Be Glad I Don’t”, and Chapter Eleven “The Truth About Divine Intervention and Why I Avoid It At All Costs”.

Nature? Divine. Human nature – toxic.

They do like blowing stuff up.

Yeah. And the worst part – they do it in my name. And then they come crying to me, asking me to forgive, to fix things. Never taking any responsibility.

What about your responsibility?

I took responsibility... by leaving. At a certain point, training wheels got to come off. No one likes a helicopter parent.

This is sort of what he later says to Dean, except that to Dean he talks about “beautiful creatures” “my baby”, talks about helping, none of the harsh tone he’s using here. When Metatron accuses him of hiding from Amara, he retorts “I am not hiding. I am just done watching my experiments’ failures”. What a different language, uh? Then Metatron asks him why he abandoned them, and Chuck answers “Because you disappointed me. You all disappointed me”. Then, he admits he lied about “learning” to play the guitar and so on, because he just gave himself the ability, and then appears to Dean and Sam, after Metatron’s passionate speech about humanity.

So, no matter the authorial intent at the time - the truthiness of Chuck’s words was already ambiguous. He kept lying and being called out, or silencing the conversation with some good ol’ gaslighting.

The season 14 finale introduces the big twist: it was, indeed, all a lie. The whole of it. Chuck didn’t abandon shit. It was all him, minutely controlling the narrative of the universe, putting the characters through all the pain and struggles for his own amusement.

The “absent father” narrative was a lie.

What does this tell us about John? Nothing, according to the authorial intent that shines through Dabb’s Lebanon. But we don’t give a crap about Dabb’s authorial intent about John! He’s just one dude and plenty of other authors have painted a different picture. So I’m going to read the narrative the way I want, because I can, and the narrative allows me to. It’s all there.

I’m suggesting that the fact that Chuck lied when he talked about being a hands-off/absentee father parallels how Dean and Sam prefer to think of their father as an “absent father” when that’s not exactly a reflection of the truth.

You left us. Alone. ‘Cause Dad was just a shell. [...] And I-I had to be more than just a brother. I had to be a father and I had to be a mother, to keep him safe.

Setting aside how “I had to be a father and I had to be a mother” sort of retcons and cleans up the Winchester family picture painted by ealier seasons, the fact that John didn’t really count as a functional father figure and Dean and Sam were essentually alone is not incorrect or anything. It is true that John would leave them to their own devices a lot, thus the long stays in motels, the hunger, the food-stealing, and all. But John wasn’t always absent, at all. He trained them as soldiers, he disciplined them, he was around enough for them to be intimately familiar with what happened when he drank. He drove them around.

It’s almost like it’s preferable to Dean and Sam to spin their own “absent father” narrative, putting the accent on the time they spent alone, painting their childhood as a time they had to grow up on their own, rather than acknowledge they grew up under the thumb of a controlling, looming figure they would regularly live in fear of, even when he was not physically present.

The “absent father” narrative is what Dean and Sam need to use to avoid confronting the reality of the father figure whose moods and whims they had to dance around. “I know things got dicey... you know, with Dad... the way he was. And I just... I didn’t always look out for you the way that I should have. I mean, I had my own stuff, you know. In order to keep the peace, probably looked like I took his side quite a bit.”

John shaped their lives. He shaped their identities. Even in the episodes where he abandons Dean or both children somewhere, he’s portrayed as the figure who drives the car. He symbolically drives the car, you know? John shaped Dean and Sam’s relationship with each other, both on a surface level (the conflicts) and on a deeper level (the parental dynamic).

Heck. The entire first season of the show plays on John’s disappearance as the “elephant in the room”. John is there by not being there, you know? And after he dies, his death - his absence - is again the elephant in the room for Dean, the weight on his psyche that he shatters under.

It is not wrong that Dean and Sam had to spend long periods of time without John. But John structured their lives in quite minute detail. Where they needed to be, what they needed to do, what they must not do, everything had to follow John’s instructions. A drill sergeant, the narrative called him, ordering how his sons needed to live their lives. That’s no absence, except on a level where Chuck not showing himself and pretending he’s not there can be considered absent. That’s a presence, not necessarily always physical, but semiotical and psychological.

John is an absent father as much as Chuck is a hands-off god. He even writes himself into the story around the time Cas has the “season 1” phase (let’s go look for dad/let’s go look for god), which is when John actually was alive and appeared. Then he was no longer physically there, but he was still shaping his characters’ lives, just like he’d always done.

The “absent father” narrative on John is that - a narrative. Spun by the characters themselves because it’s easier and actually kinder on John. Or, better, it allows them not to be crushed by the psychological implications of having to accept that their father was such a looming, minutely formative figure in their lives. They know, but they can wave the “absent father” idea around to avoid thinking about it.

“I had to be a father and I had to be a mother” is something easier to tell yourself. I was the one who did it all. But he wasn’t, and that’s the problem. The fact that John was their father - Dean’s and Sam’s - is the problem. But ironically, blaming himself for every failure is a better option for Dean than fully acknowledging John’s abuse. As long as he blames himself, he has control over it. The moment he acknowledges the extent of John’s influence, he loses control over the entire narrative of his own identity and the family identity, the family dynamics. That’s scarier, just like realizing that God manipulated everything is much scarier than the alternative. “God abandoned us” was indeed a better option, and “John left us alone” was a better option. But neither was true, and the characters faced the implications of the cosmic level, but never got to face the implication of the familial level, because the narrative always danced around it and then Dabb’s apologist version “won”.

But what’s been put in the show is still there. The narrative of John’s abuse is still there. Nothing can take it out of the story.

#my spn thoughts #spn meta #dean and john #dean and sam and john #dean and chuck #dean and god #spn 11x20 #spn 11x21 #spn 14x20 #spn 12x22 #et alii #spn #long post

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deanwasalwaysbi · 3 years

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Can we talk about the fact that Dean says "my mom was my hero"? At the beginning of the series Dean would have said John was, Mary was just this idea, this idol on a pedestal.

But then he met Mary, then he is able to articulate who Mary, who John really was and he understands the truth. Everything he thought he liked about John he actually got from Mary.

"My mom was my hero" ... "no I won't kill my son so you'll bring her back"

#spn 14x20 #mary campell #mary winchester #growth #dean meta #spn meta #random spn thoughts #spn rewatch #original content #he'd have to answer to her

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norahastuff · 3 years

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Cas and love

Don’t mind me, just thinking about last season’s finale when Jack told Cas “I know you’re here because you love me, and I want to love you back. It’s just I can’t.”

And Cas responded by saying “You can’t yet.”

Cas died never having once heard that he was loved, and yet that didn’t stop him from always giving it fully. The angel with too much heart, as one of his angel brothers called him. How was it that Ben Edlund put it? “There’s a crack in Cas, the crack through which amazing things come.”

Of all those amazing things, it turns out in the end it all came down to love. Everything Cas did, he did for love. Love for humanity, for his friend Sam, for his son Jack and ultimately the all consuming love he felt for Dean.

Which makes it that much more heartbreaking that he never got to hear someone express their love back to him. That being said, I’m sure he knew Jack loved him - it’s part of the reason being there for Jack helped him feel less adrift in the world, and gave him a purpose. It gave him a role in their family and made him feel like he belonged. Jack and Cas have seen each other as father and son from before Jack was even born, and apart from that short period of time when Jack lost himself, there’s always been unconditional love on both sides there.

That brings us back to Dean. I think Cas knew that Dean loved him, I mean after everything they’d been through, how could he not? Remember the whole mixtape incident when Dean got mad because “he came into my room and he played me?” That could have only worked if Cas knew there was a certain level of love and trust between them. The whole mixtape exchange was about as honest as they could be with each other in that moment, which made it equal parts cathartic and frustrating.

The thing is, Cas felt a different kind of love for Dean. The kind of love he didn’t think he was allowed to feel - angels aren’t supposed to love humans that way, remember? Even if he ignored that, he wasn’t exactly an ordinary angel anyway, it’s not like Dean would ever feel the same way. It’s not like he felt that kind of love for Cas, right?

(Cas hasn’t been privy to Dean’s perspective for the past 12 years like we have. He hasn’t seen the things we’ve seen.)

And yet despite all that, in his final act, Cas decided that it didn’t matter. His fears about his love not being reciprocated, that the Empty taunted him with, shame, rejection, none of it mattered. Cas could love enough for the both of them - Dean taught him how.

Cas’ run on the show may have ended like it started, saving Dean Winchester, but Cas most certainly did not end up the same being that he was when he started. You see all those years ago he saved Dean for duty. This time he did it for and with love.

The power the simple act of loving another person could have? The power in allowing yourself to fully feel it? Nobody understood that better than Cas.

#castiel #spn meta #i miss him #destiel #my spn thoughts #love and...love #14x20 #15x18

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restlesshush · 2 years

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Okay god so the reason this post by @heaven-ecologist hits so much is like – yeah exactly! Cas wants to be Jack’s Dad but he doesn’t quite view himself as having that role, not in the sense that he doesn’t love him or feel responsibility for him like a parent – of course he does – but he just doesn’t feel like he can quite claim that title. Which in some ways is part of what’s beautiful about their relationship, everything he does for Jack (cf Byzantium) is out of love rather than some sense of familial obligation, but it also has its downsides. I think he views his relationship with Jack very asymmetrically: he feels like he, as a caretaker, should give him (and most crucially he wants to give him) his love and support, but because he doesn’t give himself the formal status of Jack’s Parent he doesn’t think he wields any authority in terms of how Jack should respond to him (ie, listening to him when he tells him not to be self-destructive), or in terms of how other people should treat Jack. This actually hampers his ability to be a good parent to Jack because while Cas is the one (out of all of tfw 2.0, including Jack) who most has Jack’s best interests at heart, it never occurs to him to argue that he has any special claim to being listened to, which he could use to argue in favour of Jack’s well-being more strongly. Moriah is probably the closest he comes – standing in between Dean and Jack, showing who he’s prioritising – but even then he argues about killing Jack being wrong and something he doesn’t want, but he doesn’t try to exert his authority as Jack’s dad, because it’s not occurred to him he has any to exert.

(This is also linked to why although I think Jack’s relationship to Dean is very hard to fix, Dean’s to Jack is actually pretty easy. If Jack is Cas’s kid and treating Jack badly is something that he knows Cas isn’t going to stand for, then Dean would have to behave better, and can do that. The designation of family that is conditionally applied to Jack means very little, but the way his treatment of Jack would affect things with Cas would mean a lot, as long as Cas has established authority there)

This stuff is also why I’m always thinking about Cas’s “you did WHAT?!” re Jack setting off the god bomb thing in Unity. Like, neither Jack of Dean thought to wait for Cas’s input as particularly mattering (and neither did Sam, though way less egregiously), and this line both reinforces that Cas isn’t seen as having authority and also points to that… did Cas almost think he should have been given authority here? Because like, if you want to have the final say re matters of your kid’s welfare, you have to make that expectation known or no one’s going to factor it in, and this is a place where this issue has sort of been thrown into very sharp relief for Cas. If he and Jack had both survived this, maybe this could be the beginning of him realising all of this and getting to use it to better fulfil his goal of taking care of this kid – of his kid. Because they did choose each other and he is his dad! And not only does it pain him not to know that, but learning it would enable him to take better care of Jack, which is something he wants so dearly.

#castiel #jack kline #spn meta #spn 14x20 #spn 15x17 #spn 14x08 #spn #worded thoughts

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