#yes I know her character has done terrible awful things and is manipulative... but women hot 😳😳😳🏳️‍🌈 consider that

[jamlavender]

Gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss: Mrs Coulter, misogyny and the His Dark Materials TV show

The show went hard on misogyny as a vital part of Mrs Coulter’s backstory, and I want to talk about how they did it, and why, and how it might have been done better. This is quite long (when is anything I write not, let’s be real) so it’s under the cut. Read on for thoughts on women, power and fictional villainy.

As a quick disclaimer, though: I’ve enjoyed the show a lot! I’m so glad they made it! Ruth Wilson is mesmerising as Mrs Coulter! There’s so much to appreciate about the show overall, including many aspects of Mrs Coulter’s portrayal. But the HDM team have also made gender politics and misogyny very explicit themes of the show – particularly season two, particularly season two, episode five – and I think it’s fair to critique that.

Let’s be clear: Mrs Coulter is a villain. She murders kids by tearing out their souls. She kills and tortures friends and foes alike without a second thought. She abuses her daughter. She upholds and advances a totalitarian regime. She’s a Bad Person, as confirmed by God himself with the unforgettable line: “You are a cesspit of moral filth.” She’s fucking terrible, but, in life as in art, many of us are fascinated by how such awful people are made. What drives someone to commit atrocities? I am keen to see such questions examined in fiction, because I don’t think exploring a character necessarily means excusing their actions, and because it’s interesting (I mean, of course I find her fascinating, I’ve written a novel’s worth of fic about her). However, after a few snarky comments (“What sort of woman raised Father Graves, do you think?”) and some subtler commentary on sexuality, gender and power (her unsettling MacPhail with the key in the bra in S1E2), S2E5 drew a weird line between sexism in Mrs Coulter’s professional and academic life and her vast and senseless institutionalised child murder, and the longer I’ve sat with that the more I’m like: what the fuck?

Look, Mrs Coulter doesn’t tear apart children to search for sin inside them and poison Boreal and break a witch’s fingers because she’s experienced sexism in the workplace and in her education. That’s… a very odd thing to imply. We have to remember that there are lots of women in Lyra’s world, all of whom will also have experienced sexism, misogyny and other forms of marginalisation (many in more expansive and pernicious ways than Mrs Coulter, who’s a woman, yes, but also white, wealthy, highly educated and very thin and beautiful), and none of them are running arctic torture stations. She will have experienced misogyny, absolutely, and that will have affected her in various ways that inform how she approaches her work, but to imply that being denied a doctorate is the reason she became a sadistic killer is frankly bizarre. Here are a few of the lines from that episode with my commentary:

“Do you know who I could have been in this world?” What does this mean? If she’d been roughly the same person in our world, the answer is: Margaret Thatcher, which is probably a step down for Marisa, all things considered, because the Magisterium is far more autocratic than any recent Tory government and would be a much easier institutional environment in which to enact her cruelty. What we’re supposed to think, clearly, is that she’d have been a different person: a scientist and a mother, and she’s had this realisation because she saw a woman with a baby and a laptop and had a three-minute conversation with Mary. This doesn’t make sense. We live in our world! It’s less repressive than Lyra’s world but it’s hardly a gender utopia. If Mrs Coulter had chosen the scientist-and-mother life (which, as I’ll revisit later, she could have done in her world but chose not to because of her megalomaniac tendencies), she’d still have been affected by misogyny here too. Our world is not kind to young mothers, nor young women embroiled in scandals, nor is the world teeming with female physicists. It might be a little better, sure, but it’s hardly as if those gendered challenges would have been solved.  

“What do you mean she runs a department?” This is just the show forgetting its own canon. Marisa, you ran a massive government organisation (the GOB), including a huge murder science research initiative in the Arctic. That’s a much bigger undertaking and much more impressive than running a university department in our world. Pull yourself together.

“But because I was a woman, I was denied a doctorate by the Magisterium.” This is the show flagrantly ignoring the source material to make a clumsy political point. In the books, there are women with doctorates (notably Hannah Relf, also a major player in the new Book of Dust trilogy) and at least one women’s college full of female scholars. Now, would that women’s college likely be underfunded and disrespected compared to the men’s colleges? Almost certainly. But saying that is different than saying “I couldn’t get my doctorate!” when women in Lyra’s world can. The show knew what point they wanted to make, and were willing to ignore canon to do so, which is frustrating. Also, given that there are female academics and scientists in Lyra’s world, and that Mrs Coulter is a member of St Sophia’s college, it’s clear that she could have lived that life if she so desired. But she didn’t want that, because being a scientist and academic at St Sophia’s imbues her with no real power, and that’s what she craves.

I’m not opposed, in theory, to exploring Mrs Coulter and misogyny in more depth, but I think doing so through an examination of the sexual politics of her life would have made a lot more narrative sense and been much more powerful. It’s better evidenced in the text – her using her sexuality to manipulate people and taking lovers for political sway is entirely canon, as is her backstory where genuine love and lust blew up her life – and it links much more closely with the most shocking of her villainy, which involves cutting out children’s dæmons to stop them developing “troublesome thoughts and feelings,” referencing sexual and romantic desire (and what Lyra and Will do to save Dust is clearly a big ‘fuck you’ to those aims). She even says this to MacPhail in TAS, “If you thought for one moment that I would release my daughter into the care - the care! - of a body of men with a feverish obsession with sexuality, men with dirty fingernails, reeking of ancient sweat, men whose furtive imaginations would crawl over her body like cockroaches - if you thought I would expose my child to that, my Lord President, you are more stupid than you take me for.” Don’t get me wrong, she’d have been a villain regardless, but I do believe that there’s a much stronger link between her sexual and romantic experiences and her murder work than between professional and academic stifling and child murder. It would have been a lot more interesting and a lot less tenuous.

However, the show is trying to be family-friendly, and digging into why this terrible, cruel woman might want to cut the ability for desire and love (and other non-sexual adult feelings, I’m sure) out of people could get dark. We know that the show doesn’t want to go there, because they’ve actively toned down her weaponising her sexuality: in the books, she has an established sexual relationship with Boreal, whereas the show made it seem like she’s been stringing him along all this time, and made it about potentially ‘sharing a life’ together rather than fucking, which was clearly the arrangement in the books. Also, I think Ruth Wilson said she and Ariyon Bakare filmed a “steamy scene” together, and given that only a single chaste kiss between them aired it must have been cut. I think they deliberately minimised the sexual elements of the text, particularly regarding Mrs Coulter (the mountain scene with Asriel, which I did still love, was also a lot less horny than in the book) and replaced that with another gender issue, that of professional sexism, as if the two are interchangeable, which they are not. This is a shame, both for Mrs Coulter’s character and also for the story as a whole, because the characters’ relationships with sex and desire are an important part of the books! (If this minimised sexuality approach means that they don’t use the TAS scene where Asriel threatens to gag her and she tries to goad him into doing it, I’ll scream). Overall, I think they missed the mark here, which is a shame because I also think it could have been done well, if they’d been bolder and darker and more thoughtful.

Why might this happen? Why might the show take this approach? Why might it be latched onto by viewers? Personally, I think the conversations we have about women and power are very simplistic, which leaves us in a tight spot when we see women seizing power for themselves (even in fiction) and weaponising that against others, not just other women but people of all genders, because we struggle to move past ‘women have overall been denied power, so them taking it ‘back’ is good,’ even if that immediately becomes a hot mess of white, corporate feminism and results in the ongoing oppression of many people. I think we are so hungry for representations of powerful women that we – producers and viewers alike – struggle to see them as bad, because it’s uncomfortable to be so intoxicated by Mrs Coulter effortlessly dominating the men around her, subverting systems designed to marginalise her for her own benefit, and generally being aggressive and intelligent and ruthless, and then realise that you are entranced by someone who is, objectively, a terrible, terrible person. It can be hard to realise that if you channelled the energy of someone who mesmerises you, you’d be the villain. So instead of sitting with that (more on this below), a lot of legwork goes into reworking her villainy into, somehow, a just act, a result of oppression, as her taking back power that has been denied to her, rather than grappling with the fact that for anyone to desire power in such a merciless way, even if they have to overcome marginalisation to get it, is really, really dangerous.

The joy, of course, is that Mrs Coulter is not real! She’s not real! Adoring fictional characters does not mean condoning their (imaginary) decisions, nor do stories exist for each person in them to fit neatly into a good or bad box so you know who you’re allowed to love. Furthermore, fiction can be a fabulous tool for exploring and interrogating the parts of yourself that, if left to bloom unexamined, might perpetuate beliefs or behaviour that cause harm to others. Mrs Coulter doesn’t need to be a feminist or taking down the patriarchy or a righteous powerful woman to illuminate things about gender, power and feminism for those reading and watching. In fact, it’s important that we explore what happens when women (most commonly white, wealthy women, as she is) continue to perpetuate brutal systems under the guise of sticking it to ‘men,’ because it happens all the time in the real world, and it’s a serious issue. Finding characters like Mrs Coulter so cool and compelling doesn’t make you a bad person, but it might tell you something about yourself – not that you want to be a villain or kill kids or whatever, but something about how you relate to your gender or women or men or power – and that knowledge can be useful! We all have better and worse impulses, and finding art that helps us make sense of ourselves, both the good and bad parts, is a gift that we should relish.

Anyway, tl;dr, Mrs Coulter doesn’t need to be sympathetic or understandable or redeemable to be brilliant – but you wouldn’t know that from how she’s been portrayed in the new adaptation.

#his dark materials #marisa coulter #my analysis #this might be controversial idk #more thoughts that no one asked for #hdm meta

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

Opinions on Molly Weasley????

You know, I actually don’t think I’m too far out in left field for her. Well, I might be strange in that we tend to see very polarized opinions on Molly: either she’s the greatest mother who ever mothered and the Weasleys are a perfect family or she’s an overbearing manipulative matriarch who’s secretly poisoning Harry with love potions into marrying her daughter.

Sort of like Ron, I wouldn’t say Molly’s a saint, but she’s also not one of the truly nasty characters (she’s not eating babies or feeding Harry love potions or anything). That said, she is far from the warm, generous, matriarch JKR presented her as.

First, she is overbearing . There’s nothing wrong with this, it’s just how her and Arthur’s dynamic works, but at the same time if Arthur ever did have a spine it’s been completely conditioned out of him. It’s also very telling that Ron marries the overbearing equivalent of his mother in Hermione Granger. I suspect Ron’s spine has also completely disappeared by the time we hit that delightful epilogue from canon. 

As for the Weasleys, JKR sets them up to be the perfect family we can possibly (realistically) imagine. It’s huge, they all love each other and are fiercely loyal (except for Percy, the swine, we’ll get into this), they give Harry a sweater, it’s the family he wants so desperately that he marries the only available and socially acceptable option: Ginny (I could go on a rant about this for days, but guys, Harry shows way more interest in men than in women and I think 90% or Ginny’s attraction to him is that she’s a Weasley). 

That said the Weasleys, and Molly herself, have major issues. 

One, the money. I think JKR makes them poor to give contrast to the Malfoys. The Weasleys are nobly impoverished, they’re a wizarding family but understand more important things than money. The snobby Malfoys on the other hand have peacocks in their yard because rich people are inherently evil.  

That said, most of this is because Arthur and Molly completely mismanage finances. There’s nothing wrong with having seven children, but the Weasleys clearly cannot afford to have seven children. More, we see them spend money instantly when they have it. Ron is left without a wand for a year but the second Arthur wins the lottery, rather than save the money, WE’RE GOING TO EGYPT. Even the year before, money that might have gone towards emergency situations such as: my son’s wand broke is used to take Molly, Arthur, and Ginny to Egypt. They buy tickets to the Quidditch World Cup. The Weasleys don’t have that kind of money and then they go and are extremely bitter that Lucius Malfoy does have that kind of money. Yes, I’m sure the Malfoys were always wealthier than the Weasleys, but at the same time the Weasleys are the type to buy iphones for their kids when they’re on food stamps.

I’m getting a little distracted though, back to Molly.

I’d say Molly is far more traditional than JKR ever intended for her to be. She’s progressive enough that she supports muggleborns (they should get to go to Hogwarts and be very appreciative) but she also doesn’t think they should get too far ahead of themselves (we’ll get into this). She’s a raging misogynist (we’ll get into this). She is extremely judgmental and can flip on you at the drop of a hat with the barest of evidence. She never really does anything about Harry’s situation despite having very good evidence of its realities. And despite her family’s extreme poverty, even when all the kids are in boarding school, we don’t see her try to take up a job or even take up some etsy equivalent where she can enchant shit and sell it. There’s nothing wrong with staying home to raise the kids, but at the same time, I think for Molly it’s because “this is what the wife does”. 

Right, well, that actually was a lot.

Let’s start with Harry. Molly is witness to seven years of Harry’s childhood abuse and seems to take no action regarding it. Now, Fred and George are dubious sources, so them telling Molly that “hey Harry’s house had bars on his window” might not be taken seriously. Harry also is generally very private and embarrassed about his home life. That said, there are many many signs, and while Hermione practically lives at the Burrow ever since third or fourth year Harry has to spend every single summer with the Dursleys even before Voldemort’s return.

Granted, I have gone over that I don’t think child protection or even a good understanding of abuse exists in the Wizarding World. I think to wizards you’re stuck with the family you’ve got, and if your pureblood grandfather is raping you then it sucks to be you. That said, the Weasleys are such a central part of Harry’s life that I would expected them to do *something*. Instead it’s like Harry’s situation is... vaguely acknowledged but mostly ignored. 

Now, the Weasleys don’t have the money for an eighth kid (though Harry’s so absurdly wealthy he could help lighten the load were he to live with them) so I don’t hold this too much against them but... I would hope that a truly good family would have noticed Harry’s situation and tried to do something about it.

Right, the judgement part. The Weasley family’s unofficial disowning of Percy was horrible. This is going to be controversial, but Percy actually made some excellent points. Dumbledore and Harry’s story about Voldemort’s resurrection does sound nuts, the guy’s been dead ten years, he isn’t Jesus. More, it comes from Harry Potter who is young, traumatized, and has generally been erratic throughout the time Percy’s known him. And parts of what he says aren’t wrong. Why do the Weasley’s worship Dumbledore and listen to everything this man says? Dumbledore does do things like recruit child soldiers from the boarding school he runs. Dumbledore’s a shady guy. 

Mostly though, while Percy not believing Harry and Dumbledore is bad, I always got the feeling that a lot of the resentment and disowning was that Percy dared to do better than his father. Percy rises through the ranks quickly in the ministry, he’s extremely competent, where his father has been stuck in the same dead end joke of a job for years. Arthur even accuses Percy of having his position because Fudge is spying on Arthur. Which... no, Arthur, no. And the family just loathes him for it. They loathe him and it’s terrible. 

And I’m sure Dumbledore meanwhile is just dying that they’ve forced Percy out when Percy was in the perfect position to be a spy in the Ministry. I can just picture him drinking with Snape after Molly’s told him, tears in her eyes, that Percy is cut off because he betrayed the family, wondering what kind of morons are in the Order. 

Beyond Percy there’s what Molly does to Hermione in 4th year. And good god, this is also where the misogyny comes in. Rita Skeeter writes that Hermione, a fourteen-year-old girl, is a harlot and Molly not only a) believes it but b) becomes extremely judgmental of Hermione and essentially calls her a jezebel to her face. Molly, what the hell? Hermione’s life has been ruined by the tabloids for something that didn’t happen, and even if it did is nothing she should be slandered for, and Molly’s going “THAT WHORE”.

This is after Skeeter had slandered Arthur just that summer over the Quidditch World Cup incident and Molly hadn’t believed any of it for a second. So, either Hermione’s being a girl or her being an uppity muggleborn or both somehow makes this believable...

Molly’s very similar with Fleur. She doesn’t approve and I always got the feeling it was in part because Fleur is not the traditional sort of woman she’d want Bill to marry (Fleur is a working woman at Gringotts and more is elegant refined beauty rather than a girl next door who’d make a great housewife) but also because Fleur’s foreign. Bill should marry a nice, English, woman and instead he ends up with this French quarter-veela. 

Had Harry done anything to offend Molly, or even if Dumbledore had simply gone “You know what, Harry’s awful, we hate him”, then I would expect he too would have been completely cut off and thrown back into the gutter where he belongs.

So, Molly sucks and is not nearly as progressive as JKR intended, but is she feeding Harry love potions to marry Ginny and make the family wealthy? No.

#ask #anon #harry potter #headcanons #molly weasley #molly's progressive up until one of her sons marries a scarlet woman

[backofthebookshelf]

One of the nice things about the way the TMA fandom has reached full large-fandom levels of toxicity is that I no longer care if people get mad at me for my opinions on characters! So, some Georgie meta.

(Because fandom is and always has been Like That, I do feel the need to clarify here that I love Georgie, she's one of my favorite characters, characters are more interesting because of their flaws, and I have no investment in the idea that women or female characters are inherently better or more emotionally competent than men or male characters. If I talk a lot about her relationship with Jon, it's because Jon is our point of view character and also the person she interacts with the most. Also, this rambles, sorry.)

I've been thinking about the Season 4 Jon Trauma post and how much I liked the way it talked about Georgie, and it's convinced me that if Georgie could feel fear, she's the one who'd be most afraid of Jon out of all of them. She's the one protagonist we have whose only interaction with the powers has been as a direct victim of them. She doesn't know what they feel like from the inside, like Jon and Melanie; she doesn't know what they're like when they're someone you love, like Basira; she doesn't even know what they're like as petty middle management, like Martin and Tim. What she knows is that one time a monster ate her (only) friend and traumatized her so badly she spent a year in a suicidal depression.

And now her ex - and yes, Jon and Georgie have a remarkably comfortable relationship in the beginning of season three, but they're still exes and they broke up for reasons, even if we don't know exactly what they are - has turned up on her doorstep, shaking and possibly bloody, with nowhere else to go and no access to his home. He's clearly lying about what's going on. He repeatedly violates her house rules. And then he tells her that he's turning into one of those same kinds of monsters that traumatized her and ate her friend. It's clearly enough to override any remaining affection she had for him, and by any definition he has now positioned himself as a trigger.

(Through no fault of his own: the only real response he has to Georgie's statement is "I can't believe you didn't tell me." She's the one who assumes that he Knew, somehow, that she also had a statement; she's the one who suggests he had alternatives. Both suggestions are plausible but we don't actually know for certain that either are true.)

But Georgie isn't afraid of Jon because Georgie can't be afraid -at least, according to her. I'm not sure how much I believe this in the grand scheme of things; it seems like an extremely unlikely mechanism for one of the fears to have. It seems much more likely to me that she's just never met anything as terrifying as that encounter was, and her subjective sense of fear has been massively recalibrated. In which case not only meeting but having hosted in your home another monster who self-describes as similar to the one that was so terrifying that literal threats to your life are no longer distressing would...probably ping. But she's conceptualized herself as a person who doesn't feel fear; it's even possible that was part of her recovery, identifying this as a possible benefit of what would otherwise have been a universally terrible, soul-breaking experience. She looked existential terror in the face and survived, and came out of it a person who cannot be afraid of anything left on this earth. That's kind of a superhero origin story, and I can't blame her for it. I think anyone with a mental illness has at least tried to find ways in which their suffering has made them a better, stronger person.

But whether she's suppressing and rationalizing away any fear she feels or she genuinely doesn't feel any of it, she does frequently behave as though her lack of fear gives her a more objective view of the situation than anyone else. I don't believe she actually uses the word "just," but it drips from her every interaction with Jon after Dead Woman Walking. Why doesn't he just stop reading the statements? Why doesn't he just quit? And, in Zombie, I honestly can't interpret her reaction to Jon when he wakes up from his coma as anything other than, Why doesn't he just die? If he hates being this so much, if he really doesn't want to be a monster, why doesn't he just die?

I really would like to think that it goes without saying that this is, at the very least, a massive failure of empathy, but she's so explicit about it and fandom spent so much time basically agreeing with her that apparently it doesn't. Not only is Georgie not afraid of the situation, but (and this is the part that makes me wonder if she's not rationalizing, rather than being supernaturally unable to feel fear) she can't possibly fathom how afraid everyone else is, and she never tries. She persists in treating the whole awful situation, as @findingfeather's post says, like this is a mundane problem with people who are refusing to help themselves, rather than a supernatural trap that has been specifically built to be inescapable.

Now, let me be clear, even if she were talking to, say, a drug addict who nearly killed themselves because they were in denial about how much of a problem they had, her attitude would be unforgivable. But in this case Jon had no choice in whether or not to become addicted to statements; it was done to him in such a way that he didn't notice it was happening until withdrawal was already incapacitating. He also didn't have the option to leave, as Tim's extended vacation made clear. And, on top of all of that, the whole reason he was in a coma in the first place was that he was trying to save the world. (Neither he nor she knows at this point that he was doing nothing of the kind, so that's really not relevant.) And - look, when Jon came to her after the end of season two, he was asking for help. When he rejected the kind of help that she offered it was because he knew it didn't apply to the problems he actually had, but she treats that like it's his problem, which is something like offering a leg splint to a person bleeding out from a gunshot wound and getting offended when they tell you that won't work. He was very clear that what was happening scared him and he didn't know what to do about it, and her only suggestion was "walk away," which he literally could not do, for multiple reasons.

She's lucky Jon has pretty much precisely zero self-worth at this point, because anyone else would have cut her off completely for behaving like a fucking asshole.

I say "she's lucky" because frankly, even though she says that she wants nothing more to do with him, she turns up at least twice in the Institute after that, with the excuse that she's picking up Melanie to take her to therapy. I don't know about you, but I have never once gone to someone's workplace to pick them up and gone snooping around inside, and no matter how fascinatingly weird that workplace is, I definitely can't imagine doing so when I know that workplace also contains a person I have definitely decided I never want to speak to again. She goes into the Archives, for Christ's sake, and she listens outside Jon's office door for long enough to catch a bit of the recording before letting herself in (so it's very clear she knows who's in there).

Now I'm not trying to paint her as a monster here; Georgie would hardly be the first person to have second thoughts about cutting off someone they still care about, or to break that boundary that they set themselves when they realize they do still want to know how that person is doing. But the fact is that she positions herself as having the moral high ground in every single discussion they have and that's just not true. She is not literally a supernatural monster, true, but if season four did anything with the concept of monsters it was breaking down the difference between "supernaturally driven no-longer-human" and "person capable of caring and empathy." (That's a whole different meta, though, one that I will get around to someday.) Not that Jon is any better, in that encounter specifically, at dealing with a complicated and contentious relationship - he deliberately goads her, even if he doesn't use compulsion. But that's the thing, they're both exes who have had a falling out and aren't handling it very well. Neither of them is in the right.

All of which makes me really wonder what her relationship with Melanie is actually like. We don't actually see hardly any of it directly, and of what we do, well, Melanie sounds like she's still high on painkillers, so it's hard to take that as an indication of anything. But given that people (who are not intentionally trying to manipulate those around them) tend to, y'know, be fundamentally the same person in their various relationships, though it may manifest in different ways, we can probably make some guesses.

I have always been bothered by, and I really can't ignore, the fact that they were getting together at the same time that Melanie was doing what Georgie has been demanding of Jon since season three: she did whatever it took to get out. I have to wonder if Georgie knows about the nonconsensual surgery part of Melanie's process of getting out, and if she does, if she understands how vital it was. I certainly wouldn't be surprised, if she does know, that she's managed to compartmentalize it: Jon inflicted this terrible trauma on Melanie, Melanie escaped the entity that took her over. (Subconscious implication: Jon is a monster; Melanie is better than him.) I would be very surprised if Georgie is interested at all in the fine distinctions between entities; she's shown no interest in learning what is actually happening to anyone in this situation beyond "it's bad and they should get out of it." But it's relevant, because by the time Melanie makes the decision to blind herself, she's in a much different position than Jon, enslaved by an entity but not consumed by one. She herself admitted to Jon that she would never have voluntarily escaped from the Slaughter.

And given how difficult Melanie finds it to talk about any of this - you can hear her dragging the words out from behind her teeth in her conversation with Jon in Flesh, truly incredible acting by Lydia Nicholas, my god - if Georgie doesn't want to hear it? I can't imagine Melanie insisting. Yes, Melanie is going to therapy, but let me tell you, I've been going to therapy for twelve years now and I have yet to have several of the important conversations my therapists have insisted I have. That shit is hard. But I can imagine a scenario where, having been told by her therapist (who, remember, doesn't have the first idea what Melanie is actually going through, because Melanie isn't telling her about the supernatural so she has to leave out a lot of really relevant details) that she ought to tell her friend/potential girlfriend/new girlfriend about these things, Melanie attempts to bring it up, Georgie says kind and reassuring things and refuses to let her clarify any of the details, and Melanie gives up in relief, thinking, well, I tried. Super valid all around, but it doesn't mean that Georgie has any clearer picture of what Melanie's traumas actually look like, never mind Jon's. There's no world in which I can imagine Georgie actually internalizing the idea that Melanie loved the Slaughter when it had her, and she would gladly have stayed with it if Jon and Basira hadn't intervened.

In Georgie's eyes, Melanie is being a Good Victim. She was hurt but she was strong; she fought it until she won; now she's going to therapy and setting boundaries and trying to heal. She got away.

(Except, of course, she didn't, because as of The Eye Opens no one has gotten away, because this is the entire world now. We have no idea how this has affected Melanie. Presumably she's out of reach of the Eye, given that Jon can't see her or Georgie (and there's some evidence on the side of Georgie's encounter genuinely having stripped her of fear, if she's also invisible to the Eye), but she spent a long time under the influence of the Slaughter. It had her firmly enough that her attacking Jon was enough to give him his Slaughter scar. If nothing else, Melanie certainly hasn't had her fear removed, and talk about a situation bound to retraumatize someone who had such a visceral revulsion to being trapped that Elias chose it as his mechanism of control over her. Melanie probably doesn't look like a Good Victim any more, and I'd bet her relationship with Georgie is suffering some serious strain because of it.)

We don't know when exactly Melanie and Georgie got together; the last time one of them mentions the other is, I'm pretty sure, when Georgie tells Jon that Melanie is back from India. So we know that Georgie and Melanie were friends; that's good, that's a good foundation for a romantic relationship. At the very least they know each other, they have some idea of what to expect. I'd be surprised if they were dating during that season 3/4 hiatus period, though, or frankly any time before Melanie's surgery, just because Melanie seems much too consumed with rage to have room for any other emotions, and I can't imagine Georgie putting up with that.

What seems way more likely to me is this: Melanie comes back from India, arranges to meet Georgie for drinks. Probably they don't talk about anything serious; possibly they talk about Jon, honestly, since we know Melanie was looking for him and Georgie talked to him about Melanie, but very likely in the same "stuck-up pompous ass" way that Melanie talks about Jon in early seasons. (I bet Melanie's roasts are amazing.) Shortly after that Melanie joins the Magnus Institute and then, very likely, either she never tells Georgie about it and therefore they don't talk much or she does tell Georgie about it and Georgie tells her that place is bad news and she won't have anything to do with it and they don't talk at all, until, whichever way that went, the Unknowing happens and Tim dies and Jon winds up in a coma and everything goes to shit. We know Georgie visits Jon in the hospital; we don't know if Melanie does, but frankly it seems unlikely. If they did cross paths during this time, it was probably very brief and superficial. Then: the surgery, and Melanie's recovery.

I'll be honest, I have a hard time imagining Melanie deciding on her own that she should go to therapy. It's possible Basira suggested it, but it really does sound like a Georgie thing to do. So I picture something like this: from the way Basira talks it sounds like they've all been pretty much living in the Archives for a while, and on top of that everyone in the Archives has just badly violated Melanie's trust, so Melanie pulls up her Facebook DMs and talks to the only other person she has. You were right, she says, this place is terrible, I can't handle it, there's no one here I can trust and I'm so alone. And Georgie, who is generous with help and advice (so long as it's accepted) and (like anyone) weak to being told she was right about something, starts talking to her. We know Georgie's got good boundaries, and we know she doesn't want to hear details about what's going on in the Institute, so I can see her saying, I can talk to you, I would love to talk to you, but not about this. For that you need a therapist.

So Melanie gets a therapist, and the prospect of going out amongst the monsters they know are stalking the Institute without that protective shield of rage (never mind the emotional vulnerability of going to therapy in the first place) makes public transit an unthinkable option, so she asks Georgie to take her, and she does, and she keeps taking her to therapy, which is, as far as we know, the only time Melanie leaves the Archives in season four, until she blinds herself and escapes it completely.

And so they have this relationship that's built up almost entirely around Melanie's trauma - with a foundation of friendship, certainly, so I do think that if they are willing to work through it they could make it a working, healthy relationship, but (and again this isn't stated in canon but is my speculation based on what we know about these characters) it is a romantic relationship that's built around the process of Melanie recovering from multiple traumas. Ones that we know that Georgie a) doesn't know many details about, and b) more importantly, refuses to know any details about. Now, I have no experience with romantic relationships and serious trauma; I might be wildly off base here. But. I know that boundaries are important and I know that trust is also important. And if Georgie is holding similar boundaries with Melanie that she has with Jon (and, as I went into excruciating detail about earlier, she has very solid emotional reasons to protect herself with those boundaries), that's drawing a hard line around what's basically the past two to three years of Melanie's life, and undeniably both the worst and most important things that have ever happened to her. That seems...difficult to manage in the long term.

(This is a bit more of a stretch, more of the germ of a fic idea than an argument I'm prepared to defend, but I also would not be surprised if Georgie told Melanie that she wouldn't date her while she was still working at the Institute. That's a very reasonable boundary, and it's good motivation - and probably healthy motivation, I do like the idea that Melanie had something to reach toward in escaping the Institute, not just the desperate flight from - but it's also something of an ultimatum. Which is not inherently bad, but it is the kind of thing that can fester, given other problems.)

Now it's entirely possible that Georgie isn't that internally consistent. People aren't! (See: Basira's attitude toward Daisy vs her attitude toward Jon in season four.) Maybe she's more flexible about being willing to listen to Melanie, maybe she's starting to understand some of what was happening and how genuinely impossible a situation it really was. But that has to be a struggle for her, too; it's not a perfect, sweet, unconditionally good situation that teaches you that you've been unfair to the point of cruelty to someone you used to care about. And by the time the apocalypse rolls around, Melanie is, if she's lucky, just barely able to say she's healed from the plain physical trauma of blinding, never mind all the other baggage. They've got to be having a rough fucking time of it, at the very least, even if you assume that they're suddenly both the kind of people who will sit still and listen supportively and talk honestly about their own messy and complicated emotions, when neither of them have been that kind of person before.

(Another disclaimer because Fandom Is Like That: This is in no way a condemnation of or argument against fluffy What the Girlfriends fic; fic is for making fluffy things that you want to happen to your faves, or building fluffy content that you desperately need for whatever reason. Gods know there are plenty of unhealthy parts of Jon and Martin's relationship that I ignore in most of my fluffy fic. This is me attempting to work through my thoughts and feelings about the relationship I see in canon in the hopes of actually being able to write some fic about these girls myself someday, because I personally can't write fic until I understand canon, and so much of them happens offscreen because they're not main characters, and they're written with such depth and complexity that you can't just slap a stereotype on them and call it good. Which is awesome! But it means I gotta do the work, and I post it because a) it's work, and this is fandom, and I want validation; and b) I'm hoping other people have insights that might also help me clarify my thinking.)

#the magnus archives #tma #georgie barker #jonathan sims #melanie king #long post #real fuckin' long post #sorry #it's a meta party #cw suicide #cw addiction

[walkwithheroes84]

Immortals After Dark (Half Way) Series Thoughts And Couples Ranked

I started reading the Immortals After Dark series by Kresley Cole on February 5th, 2021. In the last twelve days, I've read roughly half the series. And, believe me, I was crushed to find out that the last book was released in 2017. The fandom is dead and the author - whether due to publisher issues, health issues, or a mixture of both - hasn’t been active on any social media platforms since 2019. 

I have some mixed feelings on the series, but since I have no one to share them with, I’ve decided to put them here. I chose to read this series because I liked the idea of it: immortal beings, preparing for a major “battle”, all while dealing with last-minute villains and finding their true soulmates. Yeah, I’ll read that. So, what have I liked about the series?

Let’s start with the fact that it is very clear that Kresley Cole had a major game plan in mind. Hints of future books, hints of storylines, and future important characters are introduced in every book. Since most of the novels take place around (or even at the same time) readers are often given several perspectives of the same events. Someone who seemed like a no-so-great person in one novel is shown to be a better person two novels later - because we  now know their backstory and what makes them tick. A character might offhandedly mention something in a novel (example: Garreth mentioning Lucia is his destined mate in book one) and it comes full circle in another novel - we get to see that story play out. 

Even if your favorite character plays a minor or side role in one novel, there is a great chance they will be a main character at some point in the series. And, as someone who often loves the side characters more than the main characters, that was a nice surprise for me.

It’s also fairly clear that Cole took some time in developing the different (major) groups within the Lore: who they are, what they can do, who they are friendly with, etc. That was a nice detail that I liked, especially as it didn’t really change in the novels I’ve read. And to be honest, in such a long series, it would be very easy for an author to forget smaller details. But, I don’t think Cole has - yet. 

There were some things I didn’t like, of course. Having read books 1-7 and then 9-10 (I don’t have access to book 8 yet) in the span of twelve days - it is so painfully clear that Cole has a formula she likes to work with. 

Most of her novels play out the same way: ML and FL meet. An attraction forms, with the ML realizing that the FL is his destined mate/Bride/whatever. They fight, he chases her, they fight some more, there is a bit of sex, there is a misunderstanding, he’s possessive, they fight and have sex, there is something terrible looming in the background that gets quickly taken care of in the last 50 or so pages, they fight again, they makeup and then they ride off into the sunset until they have a few cameos in other couples’ novels. It’s painfully predictable at times, and in truth it works well with some couples and not so well with others. So, I do like when Cole changes things a bit. (See book ten, Dreams of a Dark Warrior, for example.)

I also have to fully admit that some of the Alpha males, who were so possessive, running around calling women “Mine,” while being borderline abusive or/and manipulative at times turned me off.  That kind of guy is just not my cup of tea. So, I’m sad to say I have not (as of yet) been a huge fan of the Lykae and the way they tend to treat their fated mates. 

That said, I’d like to go over each couple and rank them. 

09. Emma Troy and Lachlain MacRieve from A Hunger Like No Other (Book 1): I almost stopped reading because of this couple. I understand that he was tortured and hurt by vampires for years, but he was so awful toward Emma when he thought she was a full blooded vampire! He demanded she touch him in exchange for a phone call! It was so clear that she was scared, and because of his own trauma, he did nothing to calm her. Not a fan. 

08. Sabine, Sorceress of Illusions and Rydstrom Woede from Kiss of a Demon King (Book 6): While I liked them as characters, their relationship just felt very toxic to me. At times I was even uncomfortable with the way they treated one another. From reviews I can tell that a lot of people like them, so I may go back to this novel once I have finished the series. 

07. Holly the Bright and Cadeon Woede from Dark Desires After Dark (Book 5): Cadeon was fine. Holly was fine. But - he was going to sell her out! I can’t get behind that. In the end, they did win me over, but I just felt (at times) that Holly could be a bit boring and that Cadeon’s betrayal (while somewhat understandable) was too much. 

06: Mariketa the Awaited and Bowen MacRieve from Wicked Deeds on a Winter’s Night (Book 3): Mari was stronger than Emma in dealing with her Lykae and because Bowen thought his feelings were a spell he wasn’t as possessive with Mari as Lachlian had been with Emma. Mari and Bowen had a bit of humor in their relationship, a bit of teasing and they were just...fun. I enjoyed their interactions before and after they were together. Do I think Mari forgave him way too easily? Yes. Do I  think their issues were solved too easily? Yes. But, my goodness, I still enjoyed them. 

05. Kaderin the Cold/Kind Hearted and Sebastian Wroth from No Rest for the Wicked (Book 2): This is a weird one, because I can’t really tell you why they made my top 5, but they did. I liked Sebastain and the way he just wanted to make Kaderin happy. I loved that Kaderin was not the damsel in distress that some of the other heroines had been throughout the series. In fact, I would dare say that it was Kaderin who was leading the romance instead of Sebastian, which was a nice change of pace in this series. 

04:  Daniela the Ice Maiden and Murdoch Wroth from Untouched (Book 7): I really loved the setup here: when Murdoch had been alive, he had been a, well, he slept with a lot of women. Dani is a virgin at 2000 years old. Why? Because she is half Icere Fey, which means when anyone touches her skin they freeze and she burns. Dani also happens to be Murdoch’s Bride, which means after 300 years of no sex (or interest in sex) Murodch suddenly wants to have sex - with Dani - who can’t. They have a lot of back and forth, push and pull. They find some very creative ways to be together without actually touching. And, for some weird reason I really enjoyed them. They weren’t the typical story in this series and I liked that.

03: Carrow Graie and Malkom Slaine from Demon From the Dark (Book 9): Me, Tarzan. You, Jane. That’s what seems to come to mind for a lot of people who read this one. Malkom is a seriously traumatized demon/vampire, who knows nothing of the world and is somehow really sweet toward Carrow. Carrow is a witch, who's seen it all and done a lot of it. She’s using him to save her adopted daughter, but Carrow falls for Malkom. And it’s a weirdly sweet and cute story. 

02:Néomi Laress and Conrad Wroth from Dark Needs at Night’s Edge (Book 4): A ghost and a vampire. Who knew I’d love them so much. It’s even better, because she’s his Bride, but she’s dead...so they can’t get physical. Instead they talk and get to know one another. She was a woman of the world, and he’s a half-crazed vampire bounty hunter, who was once a virginal vampire bounty hunter. She flirts and teases and he is angsty. They are basically perfect. 

01:Regin the Radiant and Declan Chase (Aidan the Fierce) from Dreams of a Dark Warrior (Book 10): Chef’s kiss. Regin does not take crap from Declan and he actually has to work to win back her trust. Declan is a mess, but it’s not used as an excuse for his misdeeds. Yes, he has had a traumatic past and he has been brainwashed, but his actions are not excused by Regin - especially when he goes back on his word. Declan has to fight for Regin, just as much as she has to fit for him. I loved them. 

I have book 8 on the way, I already have books 11, 13-15, and book 18. I’ll be buying books 12, 16, and 17 soon-ish. While the series has some flaws, I do like it overall. The books are really quick reads for me and overall I like the overarching story and a lot of the characters. I’m rather disappointed that nothing new has come out in four years and that Cole has fallen off the grid. I know she had books 18 and 19 planned, and reportedly book 18 is finished. I hope it is able to be published someday.

#immortals after dark #kresley cole #iad

[sunset-telepath]

Why I hate Ro

So, I was asked to explain why I hate Ro. And I’ve been compilating several arguments that I’ve heard and written myself. And I’d like to put a disclaimer here - it’s not because she’s this “sokeefe idol.” It’ just... her character and what she does in support of sokeefe.

Disclaimer: I’m condensing several conversations that I, JaxTheShade, and [Redacted due to them not wanting to be credited] had on the wiki about a month ago. Around 40% of these ideas are mine, 40% are Jax’s, and 20% are [Redacted]’s.

Right off the bat, she’s a misandrist. She quite literally calls boys as stupid as amoeba in Legacy. You can say that that was a joke, but it’s not funny. It’s not okay to blatantly call anyone or generalize any group stupid. It’s not ok. It’s the exact same thing as saying that women belong in the kitchen or that blacks are criminals. It’s not ok. It’s disgusting, despicable, and repugnant behavior.

In the Flashback Short Story, she objectifies Sophie as a prize for Fitz and Keefe to fight over. What the actual f***. That is not acceptable behavior under any circumstances. It’s repugnant, disgusting, detestable, and f****** evil. Treating any person as a prize to fight over is textbook objectification and it is blatantly evil. It is not ok. And it’s disgusting that this narrative has leaked into some of the fanfics that I’ve read. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. IT IS NOT EXCUSABLE. IT IS EVIL.

She flat out bullies Fitz. She alludes to him being a nasty microbe in Legacy. She ridicules his desire to perfect himself. There is nothing wrong with being or trying to be perfect. Don’t push yourself too hard trying to be perfect, but if you should always strive to be better (and if you’re naturally talented like Fitz is, achieve your dreams. Fulfill your potential. Ignore the haters). She mocks and bullies him, calling him names and ridiculing his desire to be perfect. Newsflash: There’s nothing wrong with trying to be perfect. Who the hell is Ro to decide how perfect someone can be? Who the hell does Ro think she is? As a perfectionist myself, I despise Ro and her adversity to perfection. It’s not her place to decide how perfect a person can be. I admire Fitz simply shrugging her off and not letting her flat-out abuse get to him. It’s the proper way to deal with people like her.

Her entire character can be summed up as a chronic-complainer who ships Sokeefe. Shannon basically turned the Instagram Fandom into a character and made it Keefe’s Bodyguard. She never confesses to making mistakes and she’s never humbled or knocked down a peg. 30% of her dialogue can be attributed to complaining about sparkles or “elf-land,” 20% of it can be attributed to her flat-out bulling Fitz, and 50% of it can be attributed to her pushing Sophie and Keefe together. None of the characters like her. The other bodyguards detest her, Bo wants to kill her, Fitz thinks that she’s awful, Sophie is embarrassed by her, and Keefe wants her to shut her mouth.

She’s blunt, she’s rude, and she’s just awful. She interferes with a relationship that is none of her business. She has no regard for the emotional abuse that she inflicts. Ro and Keefe are very similar, and clash often. Ro always wins, however, either because she’s stronger than him or because she can emotionally manipulate him. (These sound like big claims now, but they’re backed up later)

Ro dismisses Sophie by saying that “blondie doesn’t know what she feels.” And it’s disgusting. She’s objectified by “blondie” - a term focused on Sophie’s appearance rather than by her personality. She’s Sophie Elizabeth Foster, not “blondie.” She dismisses Sophie as naïve and disregards her feelings by saying that Sophie’s doesn’t know what Sophie feels.

~The Following Section was directly quoted from JaxTheShade because he summarized it so well~

Well...no, Ro. She does have an idea of what she feels. In fact, she was ecstatic and perfectly fine with dating and eventually sorting out her issues with Fitz until you started "hinting" about Keefe. Sophie does understand her feelings - and those feelings led her to Fitz. And even if she does have some underlying issue about who she likes (which has admittedly been hinted at), it's up to her to figure it out. Not a brash ogre bodyguard who scoffs at the notion of the Elvin culture and thinks she has a right to intrude in a teenage relationship she isn't apart of.

And Fitz...well, I'm sure Ro doesn't hate him. But she's pretty close to--that's not hard to deduce. Because Ro has ever bothered to pay attention to and sympathize with Keefe ( and yet she still finds a way to neglect his feelings ), she hasn't the slightest inclination of who Fitz is. So, like most people, she decides to consider him "the opposing candidate" in the love triangle and never look past the surface of Fitz, just calling him "Captain Perfect" and thinking that he could never be right for Sophie because he's competing against Keefe. 

Sometimes I wish someone, anyone, would call Ro out for amount of sheer insults she layers on Fitz, whether he's there or not. Although most of the time it's done behind his back--what a surprise. 

I mean, look at this:

She slyly calls him a 'nasty microbe'. And while some have argued that she wasn't calling Fitz this, she was very clearly expressing her disdain for Sophie's favourite colour being teal--and, by proxy, calls teal things 'nasty'. 

“[...] But I thought it was only right to save your imp from being sparkle-fied—and I was going to be nice and turn him your favorite color. But apparently your favorite color is teal—and yeah, yeah, we all know why. But, um, do you realize how many of the nastiest little microbes are that color?” She shuddered. “I couldn’t do that to you—or the little dude. [...]”

Ro also calls him "Captain Perfectpants" and openly admits that Fitz would have problems with all the time Sophie is spending with Keefe. Essentially admitted but disregarding how upset Fitz would be--because who cares about Fitz's feelings when Keefe is having emotional turmoil? And as a little bonus, she also pulls her classic, "I can't take this anymore! I simply have to intervene in this situation of which I'm not apart of!

"Ro snorted. “Of course he would! He’d be super, super jealous!”

“Don’t,” Keefe told her.

“No—I can’t take it anymore!” Ro stalked toward Sophie and tapped her on the nose with a calloused fingertip. “I repeat: Yes, your Captain Perfectpants would be jealous! He scraped together the courage to get all share-y about his feelings, and now you’re ignoring him, and being all mysterious about why, and telling everyone who asks that you’re not dating him. And I’m not saying that’s a bad call. Trust your instincts! Hopefully they’ll lead you out of the oblivion. But in the meantime, count on your teal-eyed Wonderboy feeling a little insecure, particularly if he finds out you’re spending lots of quality time with other dudes. And you know what? That’s good for him. We all know that boy could use a little help in the humility department. So make him sweat a little. And you”—she spun back toward Keefe—“need to stop being so afraid.”

And those are just two instances, of which I can search for plenty more. 

Ro is not a good person. She's a rebellious princess who ultimately works for her own gain. She thinks she's got it all figured out with Keefe, and decides that, since he shared his story of liking Sophie, she'll take it upon herself to get them together no matter what. 

And I mean 'no matter what'. She has put down Sophie for liking Fitz, interrupted conversations so she can drop hints about Keefe's feelings against his will, and made fun of Sophie for being oblivious--even going to the extent of getting fed up with and blaming Sophie for her oblivion "becoming less and less cute".

She's also tried to actively break up Sophitz and push together Sophie and Keefe. She's insulted Fitz and holds a very hostile disposition towards him simply because he's "perfect boy" who's against the Saint Also Known As Keefe. Ro tries to subtly force Sophie's feelings for Fitz out of her while dropping in some "isn't Hunkyhair so great?". I wouldn't for a second put it past her to succeed in shutting down as many Sophitz moments as possible all so she can continue to ignore the pleas to stop and the embarrassed faces surrounding her. 

And her excuse?

"It's the only fun she gets to have here in Elf Land".

She isn't apart of this relationship. She isn't affected by this relationship. She's only seen one side of this relationship, and uses that to base her opinions of the other two. Which is a terrible idea considering that leads to opinions like "Okay, well that other boy is awful because he's the competitor, and that girl must like the boy because the boy likes her, and sometimes she acts shy around him, and that's totally how relationships work".

Ro has absolutely no excuse for the amount of hurt she's inflicted on all three of these teenagers.

And yet she's regarded as a saint amongst all, while people like...say, Alden ( who made mistakes, but ultimately went about it in a calmer, gentler, and more well meaning way--as well as having much more justification and reasoning behind his actions ) are seen as evil and deserving of death. So what's the difference? Is it just because Ro is all for Sokeefe and Alden is really pushing for Sophitz? Have we really sunk low enough to the point where we can adore one character and hate another--despite performing the same actions--simply because of shipping preferences?

Everyone has decided to hate Alden because he showed up to speak with Keefe, ended up getting sidetracked and talking about relationships ( because of Ro, go figure ), sympathized with Keefe and shared meaningful advice from personal identical experiences, and then making sure Keefe knew that he considered him apart of the family.

That was what Alden did. And we have absolutely no reason to believe that Alden was anything but genuine when he stated that he "long considered him part of the family".

And yet Ro is the one who starts ranting about how "he didn't mean it" ( and saying something like that to a teenage boy who never felt loved by his father means a lot--but Ro has to ruin it and say that Alden's words were "a stinking load of garbage" ). Ro is the one whose objectification of the triangle by saying that Keefe being there for his friends is "sabotage" is what sparks Keefe to tell her that Sophie's feelings do matter. Ro is the one who interrupts every conversation by either stating her obnoxious opinion that nobody asked for, or calling a time out so she can bash on Fitz again. Ro is the one who has spent every waking moment since she arrived in the series either making Keefe's desire to be happy for his friends feel invalid, insulting Sophie because she's her own person with her own feelings for someone else, and coming up with every insult under the sun to throw at Fitz. Ro is the one who has no justification for her actions, seeing as she a) is not apart of this triangle, and b) has minimal relationship experience considering both her boyfriends hate her, and one was an arranged marriage.

But...Ro is also the loved and appreciated one.” - JaxTheShade (I’ve been paraphrasing some of the things that he’s said all ready, but I’m directly quoting him for this. His statement is direct and gets to the point)

~End of direct Quote~

I'd like to make one thing clear though - the point of selfishness. There's a stigma to the word that I'd like to clear up, because there are two types of selfishness, rational self-interest, and sacrificing others for yourself.

Fitz is the first type - he has a rational self-interest, he's looking out for himself and his own long-term happiness first. There is nothing wrong with that, if you won't look out for yourself, who will? It's why I completely supported Fitz yelling and breaking up with Sophie - if a relationship is making you unhappy long-term, it is in your best interest to break up with them. It's why Fitz was so adamant about finding Sophie's biological parents, he wanted to avoid future stigma, gossiping, and heckling. Fitz knows how horrible these things are to experience, and so sought to avoid them in the future. This is why Fitz is my favorite character - the others are reactive, Fitz seems to be the only proactive one. (One of the few characters in any literature to be proactive, in fact). While Sophie and the others look at the now and the immediate future, Fitz is concerned with the long-term future, a trait I share with him and one that I rarely see in literature whatsoever, to my vast disappointment.

Ro isn't selfish at all. She's much, much worse - she doesn't meddle in other's affairs for her own happiness, she just does because she can. She has no respect for other's privacy, and throws out insults towards Fitz and Sophie because she just does. She has no motive, impetus, or drive, she just does, and it sickens me.

The second type of selfishness is similar to a bully bullying others because they're miserable and it makes them feel good about themselves. It's horrible and malicious, and I'm not condoning it in any way, but its far more innocent (if bullying can be called innocent) then what Ro does.

Ro is malevolent, she doesn't do it because it makes her feel good, she just does it, with no regard with the relationships and lives she destroys in the process. She's a toxic radioactive waste dump of a person. A toxic waste dump doesn't make people sick and die for their own gain - it just does. That's how Ro is as a person.

Another reason is that she has no regard for what she says or does. She constantly tears Fitz down just because she can (I want Alden to be there next time she tries that. I want Alden to step in and tell her that what she is doing is not okay, because no other character has recognized this so far). I want Alden to be there next time she calls his son a nasty little microbe. I'd like to finally see Ro get some comeuppance for her terrible behavior.

Let's be honest with ourselves - Ro hates Fitz. She hates and complains and whines about how perfect he is. Since when has perfection been a crime? Since when is it up to her to decide the maximum amount of talent a person can have? As a perfectionist myself, I strive for perfection just as Fitz does. There is nothing wrong with striving to perfect yourself - there is if you are actively hurting yourself, but if you're naturally gifted like Fitz is, and you want to be the best you can possibly be, go ahead! Make the most of your innate talent and use it to seek your happiest future. Build & write your own happy ending.

She isn't a part of this relationship. She isn't affected by this relationship. She's actively impeding their ability to seek their own happiness, and not even for her own happiness (which is still horrid), she just does because she's "bored". Her repugnant behavior sickens me.

Ro is a textbook abuser. Let's go over a list of things an abuser does, and see to which characters she applies them to:

Name-Calling: The abuser will blatantly call the abused derogatory adjectives, like stupid or oblivious

We know she does this to Sophie, calling her oblivious. She also twists being perfect into a derogatory adjective, throwing it at Fitz. She also called Fitz a horrible little microbe, along with calling him & Keefe as stupid as amoeba.

Character Assassination: The abuser will use the word "always". You're always oblivious, stupid, late, wrong, etc.

She does this to Sophie, and also somewhat Fitz.

Patronizing: The abuser will be patronizing towards the abused

She does this to Sophie, Fitz, and Keefe.

Belittling: The abuser will belittle the abused

I'm pretty sure she does this to Sophie, Fitz, and Keefe.

Pushing Buttons: Once the abuser finds out what annoys the abused, they will do it nonstop.

Oh boy, does she do this to Keefe and Sophie. (Fitz just gets out of his way to ignore her and avoid her. It's why she's irritated by him, he hasn't opened himself to her and doesn't show flaws allowing her to find ways to sink her nasty manipulating fingers into him)

These are only a few signs of someone being an abuser, and yet Ro manages to hit pretty much all of them.

She gaslights Keefe into believing that Alden is only looking out for himself and his children - something we know to be completely wrong. She's driving a wedge between Keefe and Alden, one of the few other people Keefe respects and thinks looks out for him. The only other parental individual in Keefe's life, in fact, giving Ro total access to Keefe's psyche and making herself the only "true" source of information Keefe can trust. She is a horrible, horrible abuser.

Ro doesn't have benign intentions at heart. She doesn't even have selfish intentions at heart. She just meddles just because she can.

Ro isn’t selfish. She’s just a bad person - for a lack of a better term that would describe her repulsive behavior.

She constantly complains about the elves. Yes, elven culture is a little weird, but you don’t have to complain about it constantly and in-front of the elves.

Ro is also clearly not afraid to gaslight. She forces Keefe to believe that her opinions are the only valid ones. How does she do this? She says that "Blondie doesn't know what she feels," making Keefe think that any emotions he picks up from her are wrong. She says that Fitz is just "Captain Perfect" who doesn't really care about Sophie - that Keefe "deserves" her. She says that Alden's advice is just made up, and that he doesn't really care about him. She’s established herself as the only source of information that Keefe can trust. She’s removed Alden (the one other parental figure Keefe had) and established herself as the only person Keefe can trust. And that is very dangerous and highly abusive.

She even invalidates Keefe's emotions. Every time Keefe stands up to her and says something like "I'm just being a good friend," Ro responds (like any of this is her business) with something snarky. Or, she tells him to "stop being so afraid." And that forces Keefe to believe that his desire to help his friends isn't valid enough. That he isn't valid enough. So he comes crawling back to Ro.

She’s a terrible bodyguard. She threatens to not protect Keefe in Legacy if Sophie doesn’t share her secret with her. THAT IS NOT OK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. SOPHIE DID NOT TRUST KEEFE WITH HER SECRET OF BEING UNMATCHABLE. RO EXTORTED IT OUT OF HER, USING KEEFE AS A LIE DETECTOR. THAT IS NOT OK; IT IS EVIL.

If you re-read the portion in Legacy where she does this, it reveals some truly horrible behavior.

Here’s another direct quote from JaxTheShade explaining why this part is so disgusting:

“Essentially, Ro is blackmailing Sophie.

Sophie just found out that if Keefe goes anywhere near the Neverseen, he will probably die. ( Because at this point, they just thought the legacy thing would kill him ). So she's desperately trying to get Keefe to make a promise and stay away from Gisela. Keefe, in typical fashion, adamantly states that he's not going to be locked up.

This is where Ro steps in.

She says that she will be the one to protect him and make sure he doesn't run off. ( Since she is his bodyguard ). But instead of just...doing her job...she decides that she can exploit the situation. She can get something out of this.

She figured out that Sophie is hiding something. And from the way she hasn't told anyone yet, Ro can assume that she's trying to keep it a secret. But she also knows that Keefe's safety is important to all of them.

So she threatens Keefe's life--yes, threatens--unless Sophie spills her secret. The situation becomes, "I have all the power here, so unless you tell me a confidential secret, I'll let my charge run off into danger, which you can't have. So I know that I've put you into a corner. I know that I've won here."

If this doesn't scream "manipulative abuser", then I don't know what does.

It's disgusting, really. Ro's behaviour is despicable.

And while her blatant blackmail is clearly the worst offense, she also sprinkled in several other "I'm a bad person" actions.

1) She said that the reason Keefe gets away with things is because she "doesn't care enough to fight him" on them. Well, if you don't care, then why don't you just go back to Ravagog? Because Keefe is the second most threatened person their group, and he needs an actual bodyguard, not a manipulative princess who makes him feel even worse about himself. If Keefe gets hurt when he runs off, did he get hurt because you "didn't care enough to bother"?

2) Ro says that she doesn't care that much about him. Well, thanks, Ro. I'm sure that really makes Keefe sleep soundly at night, knowing that you don't really care about him.

3) And why does she not really care about him? Because she only bothers with Keefe as long as he doesn't make her "look bad". She says that the reason she's stopping him this time is because it'll damage her reputation if he dies. You know, instead of being worried about his life.

4) She says "I enjoy meddling". And that's her excuse for blackmailing Sophie into spilling a confidential secret. And yet she has the audacity to accuse Alden of "meddling" while here she sits, admitting it to everyone and acting like it's not a big deal.

5) Her very last line in the quote just further proves that she's just doing this to get Sokeefe to happen. Instead of feeling remorse for Sophie, who is trying not to look at them and clearly uncomfortable, she just brushes off the secret that she just forced out of her by saying that "it should do the trick". The trick being 'getting Fitz to break up with her'.

This is probably Ro's most egregious act yet.

And yet nobody ever seems to call her out for it or even think that...it's a little weird that she would do this.

But I guess it really isn't weird at all, seeing as we've have evidence in the past that proves she would stoop to this level.” - JaxTheShade

That part in Unlocked where Shannon said that (deeeeeeeeeeeep down) Ro cares about Keefe? Well, it’s ooc. Look what Ro says in Legacy:  "I may not care that much about what happens to you, but if you get yourself killed on my watch, it makes me look bad—especially if I had advance notice. So, I can’t have that."

Re-read that portion in Legacy. Alarm bells should be going off in your head.

She reminds me of the villain Ellsworth Monkton Toohey from The Fountainhead. Do you know what he did? He turned people into slaves by establishing psychological power over them and making them miserable. By killing their wants, needs, desires, and happiness, he turned people into miserable slaves who would obey his every order. And the scary part? Ro uses the exact. same. tactics. that he does (not going to list them here, that would take far too long) on Fitz, Sophie, and Keefe. And Keefe almost perfectly resembles the characters who fall for his manipulations and tactics, while Sophie and Fitz resemble the characters who ignored him and went about their business. It’s really unnerving.

Everyone is entitled to seek their own happiness - as long as their actions don't impede others from seeking their own happiness.

Ro actively impedes Sophie, Fitz, and Keefe's pursuit of their own happiness, doing it for no other reason than the fact that she's bored. It sickens me.

And the fact that Fitz is basically demonized and hated by the fandom while praising Ro is what sickens me the most.

Ro manipulates, gaslights, and abuses Sophie, Keefe, and Fitz for her own fun. She doesn't have any long term goal, just destroying their psyche and impeding their ability to find their own happiness for short term amusement. She mocks Fitz for being trying to be perfect (since when has that been a crime?), she gaslights and Objectifies Sophie, mocks Keefe and openly abuses him, and interferes with their relationships because she finds it funny. She's also a misandrist. She calls Fitz a nasty little microbe (I want Alden and Della there next time she does that). She objectifies Sophie as a trophy for Fitz and Sophie to fight over. She constantly tears down Fitz and Sophie, and uses a number of tactics abusers use in real life on Fitz, Sophie, and Keefe. She is a radioactive toxic waste-dump of a person, ruining their lives and psyches not even for her own gain, but just for her own amusement. Her further abuse of Keefe is repugnant, her objectification of Sophie is disgusting, and her mocking and bullying of Fitz makes me want to puke. She's a terrible, terrible person.

And that is why I hate Ro.

#kotlc #kotlc ro #ugh I hate Ro #Ro Hate #kotlc discourse

[greenhatsinthesky]

lockdown film no. 34 - The Half of It (2020) dir. Alice Wu

13/05/2020

I enjoyed the stop motion bit at the beginning a Lot. It was a shame they didn’t do more with it throughout the film

- couldn’t take the first band scene seriously because when they were singing Annie’s song all I could think of was being in a football stadium in Sheffield singing the greasy chip butty song (sheff gang rise up)

- don’t know who needs to hear this but if you want a favour from someone do not pull them off a moving bike

- the scene where Ellie dropped all her stuff and aster helped was pretty basic but I did really like how Ellie stood up with the phone glued to her head

- it feels very much like a shakespearean comedy with false identities, which I’m super here for

- (just clocked its Cyrano de Bergerac. At least its better than the shit storm that was Sierra burgess)

- oh the bathroom scene. Dead. Love that. Focus pulling ? Yes please. But the girls ? Get in the bin

- the idea of revising for a date because in reality you have Nothing in common is an absolute nightmare but it’s what Paul would do because he’s like effort = love. I don’t think I agree with that. Obviously you should put effort into your relationships with people but you can’t bludgeon someone into loving you, nor can you bludgeon yourself into loving them. If a person Does Not Love You for whatever reason, it doesn’t matter how much effort you put in. And then that feeds into really toxic stuff of boys not knowing how to take it when someone doesn’t like them and how they’ll then think “I just didn’t try hard enough” and that just leads to stacks and stacks of bludgeoning which is obviously a terrible vibe

- it slightly upsets me how high they play ping pong. technique left the chat

- ellie really was not subtle when she was saying the reasons why someone might theoretically like aster. Come on pal. 

- the scene where Paul made taco sausages for Ellie and her dad was so sweet the way he was standing behind them waiting for their reactions… big golden retriever energy

- “You’re not just a girl”

- “I’m not? Then what are you?”

- CUE EXISTENTIAL CRISIS

- i was getting big carol and Therese in the tunnel vibes when they were driving to aster’s place. Having seventeen playing in the background felt, again, a bit basic

- AWW BABY ELLIE ZOOMING AROUND WHEN ASTER TOOK HER CLOTHES OFF TO GET IN THE WATER

- it was good how when aster got out of the water (presuming she was naked), we went straight in and sat very close with Ellie because aster not wearing clothes isn’t the point of any of this scene, it’s about Ellie and aster and that particular bit was about Ellie and realising the effect that aster has on her. I could waffle for ages about how wlws are conditioned to believe that loving women is predatory and how that has massively affects this scene but I feel like that’s kind of obvious 

- the vending machine bit where Paul kisses Ellie was so awful on so many levels — obviously rank that he kissed her because Ellie didn’t want him to and aster saw, but one thing that really made me sad was how, when Paul said “it’s a sin. You’re going to hell” it was also really upsetting to him because Ellie is his friend and because I guess he equates being gay as someone doing something wrong — it would be as if one of my closest friends did something that didn’t line up with my idea of them, like being racist and beating someone up. that would make me sad so him finding out that Ellie isn't straight made him sad in the same way

- trig’s proposal is literally my worst nightmare. It’s manipulative for starters and I hate the idea of a public proposal, but it’s so hypocritical for him to quote a really nice verse from the bible saying love does not boast and then kind of boasting about the love that he has for aster and using such awful language like “she’ll make me a great wife” doesn’t feel like he understood that verse very well

- i just have to say that asters character did not feel developed at all. We got to the end and I didn’t feel like I was connected to her at all, I know she wasn't really one of the main characters but for the amount of time we spent with her I would have hoped she’d be a bit more rounded as a person

- it was good that Ellie and aster had a kiss, but when I first saw I really didn’t like the way it was done because it made an iffy callback to an earlier scene where paul says that he kissed aster and Ellie was confused because he couldn’t have known that aster wanted him to kiss her. But then in this scene Ellie doesn’t take into consideration what aster wants at all, so it just feels a bit jarring in Ellies character for her to do something like that

- paul running by the train was soft. I liked it

- in conclusion this film is …. fine. I was excited to watch it initially because I’d heard it was a new queer film with a main character who wasn’t white, so I was hyped. I think it is a queer film in the sense that the main character is queer, but her queerness isn’t explored as such, which I think is a shame. It’s definitely good to have platonic relationships at the centre of a story, but I was hoping they’d have more aspects of a queer storyline in this film, so I guess I’m saying it didn’t play out the way I was expecting it to. Having said that, that’s not the films fault 

#the half of it #alice wu #leah lewis #ellie chu #daniel diemer #paul munsky #alexxis lemire #aster flores #collin chou #edwin chu #enrique murciano #deacon flores #catherine curtin #colleen munsky #wolfgang novogratz #trig carson #becky ann baker #mrs. geselschap #anton sanko #greta zozula #ian blume #lee percy #netflix original #lgbtq+ cinema #coming of age #lockdown films #lockdown film no. 34 #rob out

[skullsandwineglasses]

To Dear Myself Review/Rant

If you’ve had the patience to watch all 45 episodes until the end, then you probably know what I’m going to talk about in this review. I feel like it’s pretty unanimous that the ending was awful. 

It’s a slow burn slice-of-life drama. I don’t normally watch these types of dramas and instead go for the ones that are fantastical and far away from reality so that I can completely get lost in another world. But Liu Shishi and Zhu Yilong are familiar faces, and I’m more likely to start a bad drama with familiar actors than a good drama with unfamiliar actors, because I’m basic and want to invest as little attention and mental effort as possible (it takes work to warm up to new faces). 

The drama started off promising: it introduced obstacles that normal couples and families would face. Obstacles like money, social class, infidelity, unemployment, workplace competition, the value and desirability of “aging” women who prioritize work over love. It was relatable, even though some of these are unfamiliar experiences for me, a psychology grad student in her mid-20s. I didn’t expect this drama to be inspiring. I didn’t want this drama to be inspiring. But I wanted it to be at least logical, if not realistic. The drama seemed to promise reality though, which I held out hope for, but instead it butchered the character arc for most of the leads. 

[spoilers ahead]

The devolution of Li Si Yu and Chen Yi Ming’s relationship was laughable. 

LSY is afraid of marriage, while CYM believes that the ultimate goal in life is to get married and have a family. They don’t see eye to eye on this, and so the pressure causes them to break up. I respect this. It’s a common problem: you can’t really move forward when one isn’t ready to settle down, and the other isn’t willing to wait or support them. CYM is portrayed as a calm, composed, and morally upright person who feels uncomfortable when LSY makes a questionable decision. But CYM is also a hypocritical person who suppresses his feelings. Whenever he’s displeased, he acts as thought everything is fine until he can’t hide it anymore and explodes with unbidden rage. He punches the roof of the car, he slams the desk. It’s a little scary tbh. LSY is portrayed as a passionate and impulsive career-driven woman. She has to make tough decisions, and you understand why she makes them. Whenever she’s unhappy, she’ll let you know. The drama seems to set up a character development arc for these two flawed characters. 

LSY starts her own company, but then fails, and ends up learning that while it’s important to fight for what you believe in, but you shouldn’t be too caught up in whether your fail or succeed. It’s the classic “it’s about the journey, not the destination” kind of lesson. 

After a bout of heartbreak, CYM is swept off his feet by the manipulative Wang Ziru. She lies to him, evades him, controls him. At this point in the drama, we think that LSY is better off without him because he seemed to have moved on so swiftly. CYM and WZR seem to have a calmer relationship than the one he had with LSY. They never argue. We see that he’s easily attracted to confident, powerful women, but expects them to settle down with him when they’re not ready. For a third of the drama, he’s happily in love with WZR and doesn’t think about or interact with LSY (except when he comes to her office to tell her to shut her company “for her own good”). It looks like he completely moved on.

LSY on the other hand, misses him. She’s always looking at the only picture that she’s saved of them together. She still loves him. 

I liked that they introduced Guan Xiao Tong as a potential love interest for LSY. Despite being over a decade younger than LSY and constantly being looked down by her because of this, I thought he was quite mature. I also liked how LSY wasn’t “moved” by him. The typical drama would have her eventually reciprocate his feelings and make him her rebound. Yes, she was amused by him, but she knew that he wouldn’t grow up fast enough with her, and so she never led him on. It made their relationship wholesome. Even though LSY  wasn’t attracted to him, I liked how the drama normalized a potential may/december relationship between a woman and man. Though I don’t think I can forgive the drama was making him disappear so abruptly after he found out that his dad was struggling financially. Maybe the drama implied that GXT was too busy “growing up” by helping with his dad’s business so his relationship with LSY came to an end and that he was no longer relevant to drama, but that wasn’t made clear at all. 

Zhi Zhi also stopped appearing after the 3rd last episode of the drama when she decided not to marry the misogynistic Su Li Xing and to instead stay in Shanghai for her career, which also implied that there could be a chance for her and Liu Yang to get back together (their storyline is a whole other can of worms, but I have to admit that no other drama, movie, or book has made me cry as hard as Zhi Zhi confronting the mistress and then getting publicly slapped by her husband. Not sure if it was the drama itself that had the power to move me, or if it was because I watched that scene at 3am on a Thursday, or because it reminded me of some personal experiences, but either way, I sobbed hella hard that night).

But back to LSY and CYM. In the last 2 episodes of the drama, they start appearing together in scenes again. There are some unresolved emotions. There is still attraction. Nervous, longing, awkward glances. After nearly 20 episodes of believing that a reconciliation is impossible, you start wondering if the drama is hinting that they’re gonna force them back together in the last 2 episodes. CYM sells his apartment to support LSY’s project. Haowen tells LSY that CYM still calls out her name when he’s drunk (although it’s still unclear if this was just a gimmick to distract her to sign the sale agreement). 

CYM can’t give WZR a straight answer about whether or not he still loves LSY. He punches Gong Jing in the face for cheating LSY out of her shares. 

And even after all this, guess what happens? He confronts WZR. She tells him she lied to him to help him preserve his dignity. She tells him she had to do underhanded, unethical things in order to save the livelihood of an entire company that she’s responsible for. He’s moved. He’s grateful for her thoughtfulness towards him. He stands by her. He chooses her. 

I mean, what? Does he really love her that much that he’s willing to look past everything she’s done? All the crimes and hurt she’s committed? I don’t need to him to get back together with LSY. I don’t want them to. I think he’s a terrible character who believes that happiness and fulfilment only comes form finding a woman who’s willing to let him love and dote on her. But this decision just doesn’t match the morally upright character we’ve been sold with at the beginning of the drama. LSY only made one morally questionable decision, of which she apologized for, and yet CYM was already questioning whether or not they should continue their relationship because he felt like they were going different ways. And yet he forgives WZR? Because he loves her? But? What about those ambiguous, uncomfortable faces he made when he was with her? Like that scene when he helped take off her coat before she went into the awards ceremony, and he stood back, leaning by the door, staring off into the distance looking sad and regretful?? What are we supposed to make of those scenes and expressions? I probably shouldn’t victim blame, especially since WZR created an uneven power dynamic in their (lowkey toxic) relationship, but I’m just not sure what the scriptwriter was trying to do with this plotline. It felt like they were condoning WZR’s behaviour (despite saying she was arrested in a voiceover) because CYM forgave her. Or were they condemning CYM’s passiveness? Again, not clear.

And then the final scene with the women marching on happy and hopeful, and then men staring out onto the city skyline looking lost and depressed? Female empowerment is great, and it was nice that they were all single at the end (except for Xiao Ling, I guess), but was it really necessary to tear men down to emphasize this? But then again, the drama kind of had to since they wrote shitty male characters. I just dislike creating the winner/loser dichotomy. 

I respect that Liu Yang is working his way towards forgiveness and has found what he’s passionate about. But I don’t know if he’s forgivable, because what he did was pretty unforgivable, but he’s showing growth and is working towards redemption, which is somewhat admirable. 

Haowen went from being the most level-headed one to becoming the most impulsive and obsessive one. 

CYM is just blank. Absolutely blank. There is nothing interesting about him. At first you pity him for being the one who’s always chasing after LSY and being the one to give in first for the sake of the relationship, but then you realize that he’s just trying to mold himself into what he thinks is the “ideal” boyfriend, which he thinks is someone who is able to succeed without the help of his girlfriend. He thinks it’s weak to rely on the help of his girlfriends, which is ironic since most of the career moves he made in the drama were directly because of his girlfriends. 

Anyway, I could just go on about how much I didn’t enjoy this drama, and other people on youtube and mydramalist have ranted more eloquently about this. I usually don’t write drama reviews unless there’s something I’m deeply unhappy about. 

My recommendation? Don’t watch this. But if you’re curious, don’t be afraid to jump and skip scenes. There are no likable characters. Even Zhi Zhi doesn’t start to become likable until she decides to leave her husband. Is this a feminist drama? Yes to the extent that it normalizes women in their 30s who are single and career-driven (which is a pretty big deal in China where unmarried women over 25/27 are considered “leftover” women), but I’m just not sure whether the plot does justice to these women. The verdict is still out on that. Thoughts?

Oh and one final qualm that I have with this drama is the LSY and WZR never had a final face-to-face confrontation. After everything that WZR did to LSY, LSY never got to interrogate WZR. WZR could have even gave LSY some final parting words. Instead, CYM took LSY’s place and the drama made it seem that WZR was only answerable to him and no one else. There was just absolutely no closure from this messy, messy drama.

#to dear myself #亲爱的自己 #朱一龙 #cdrama #zhu yilong #liu shishi #qin ai de zi ji #crdama review #陈一鸣 #chen yi ming

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Sarah Monette, the Victim Dilemma, the Aesthetic of Suffering and the Uncanny Valley of Arse Rape

by Wardog

Monday, 27 April 2009

Wardog fails to finish Sarah Monette's Corambis.~

Massive massive massive massive spoilers for about 1/3 of the book. Also, as the title suggests, this article is about nasty things so don’t read if you’re likely to be upset

Preramble (like a preamble but … d’you see?)

This is a bleak day indeed. I just got my hands on a copy of Corambis, the much-anticipated (by me at least) concluding part to Sarah Monette’s Doctrine of Labyrinths quartet and the truth of it is, I don’t think I can finish it.

Oh, Sarah, what happened? I do still love you, I just don’t think it’s working out.

I think it’s partially problems associated with reading through a series over a lengthy period of time. When I read Melusine, The Virtu was already out in hardback and I tore through at them enthusiastically, so drawn into the world and the characters that I barely noticed they were so heavily saturated in angst and woe that one could drown in it by simply opening the book a little recklessly. There was a bit of a wait for The Mirador – which I seem to recall I felt slightly less positively about but still adored – and I fell upon Mehitabel Parr’s I’m sure welcoming bosom to save me from the tidal waves of A&W. As much as I love Felix and Mildmay, it was Mehitabel’s narrative voice that made The Mirador bearable for me. It was such a necessary contrast to the boys: someone with some redeeming sense of self-irony, hurrah!

Of course, Mehitabel isn’t in Corambis. And, God, I miss her. There is a new viewpoint character, Kay Brightmore, blinded and imprisoned and weighed down by the terrible military failure that kicks off the book. He’s basically lost everything that ever mattered to him, can no longer fight on account of being blind and, needless to say, he has angst out the wazoo about it. I was broken and crying by Chapter three.

And, quite frankly, I just can’t take it. I know there is redemption in the future of these characters (characters I really care about, having spent three books with them), I know there is self-actualisation and the potential for happiness, I know because I cheated and looked, but I’ve really really struggled with Corambis. The worst of it is, I’m sure it will be a triumphant and satisfying conclusion to the quartet. Sarah Monette is an excellent writer, I love her world, I love the way she uses language, I love her characters, I love everything about her but I think I’m going to have to accept the fact I simply can’t read her.

Oh, Sarah, what happened? I do still love you, it’s not you, it’s me.

Maybe in a couple of years we’ll be able to work something out.

I think circumstances might be playing into this unhappy state of affairs as well. When I read the early books, there wasn’t a cloud in my sky. But having emerged from a rather bleak year, there’s something a little too close in all that guilt and grief and self-loathing and despair, and I can’t distance myself enough from it to enjoy it. There is a systematic aestheticisation of suffering to be found in all of Monette’s books. I’m not going to try and argue that as either a positive or negative quality in her work. I think it’s probably neutral: it’s

something

art

does

sometimes

. I acknowledge the difference between literary suffering and real suffering, in that there can be a romance in the former which is impossible in the latter. Also literary suffering exists in a wider, symbolic and allegorical sphere than that of an individual having shitty things done to them by life or others, mainly, I suspect, because it’s not real. Take madness – there is something deeply attractive and romantic about the artistic representation of madness (like Felix’s madness in Melusine) and it’s perfectly possible to appreciate that, and to find in it a kind of beauty, without ignoring the genuine distress suffered by the mentally ill. In short, Ophelia is not my friend who killed herself last year.

But the boundaries between the fictional and the real are not comprehensively signposted. There isn’t a traceable spectrum between Lavinia, daughter of Titus Andronicus, and Elizabeth Short. And ultimately I think there comes an impossible point when the literary and the real collide, corrupt each other and prove they are utterly irreconcilable and yet simultaneously inseparable. Yes, they must be understood as different things operating in a different way – a painting of St Sebastian is not the same as footage of the prisoners at Guantanamo bay – but there comes a point when it is necessary to remember what it is that’s being aestheticised and ask yourself why.

Page 152

Okay, so, there’s a gang-rape scene in Corambis.

Felix – former prostitute, broken gay wizard with ex-cruel master and traumatic past - ends up subjecting himself a thaumaturgic orgy in order to earn money to pay for his ailing brother’s medicine.

It’s awful.

It’s not that it’s explicit, just awful.

And I’m no wuss, okay. I’ve read Last Exit to Brooklyn. I’ve read The Wasp Factory. I’ve read American Psycho.

But something about this scene in this book bought me a first class ticket on the ARGH! Train and whizzed me straight out of my comfort zone.

It’s strange to say that something is “outside your comfort zone” in that it feels like a confession of personal failure (also something that’s outside my comfort zone). And then I thought about it more, and I thought: hey, so what, gang-rape is outside my comfort zone. Surely that’s normal. Gang-rape is absolutely something that should be outside all our comfort zones. But here’s where it gets complicated: in fact, fictional gang-rape is not outside my comfort zone. I play H-games, for God’s sake, where they’re ten a penny. You can’t take two steps in an H-game without stubbing your toe on a gang rape. So it’s something more specific than that. It was something about this particular portrayal of it.

It’s not shock value. Felix gets himself sexually abused on a pretty regular basis, so much so, in fact, that it’s kind of part of the fun, and it’s very much tied into Monette’s aesthetic of suffering.

I could not see, and I could barely hear, save for my own harsh breathing. But I could feel. I could Malkar’s hands like silk, running up and down my back, tracing the scars, the old palimpsest of pain. I could feel his body arching against me, his bulk, his heat. I felt his hands slide under my hips, stroking, exciting, felt the stiffness of him against my thigh. Pain, then, but not too much. Pain … and arousal all woven together like a tapestry. I was moaning, gasping; the only word I could form were “Please, Malkar, please, lease,” and I didn’ tknow if I was begging him to stop or continue. Not that it would made the slightest difference either way.

Let’s pin our colours to the mast here. That’s beautiful. Terrible, but beautiful and absolutely literary in its unrealness. It’s also about as accurate a portrayal of sexual abuse than St Sebastian up there is of martyrdom. Perhaps I’m just an irredeemable sicko but I’m pretty sure it’s there, to an extent, to be enjoyed, partially as spectacle (straight women do not generally write about beautiful gay boys sexing each other manipulatively because it’s a Serious Social Issue) and, also, partially as vindication for all the crappy things that have been done to innumerable female characters in a seventy years of fantasy fiction. I’m not, of course, advocating backlash (more manrape!) but there is something compelling and, even perhaps comforting, in characters like Felix, Alec and friends, these beautiful men, who are as sexually vulnerable as women, suffer and fear the sort of things women suffer and fear, and are very much created to be subjects of an extra-textual female gaze and the intra-textual male gaze. I’m not saying that men don’t get raped and looked at, but the sheer saturation is demonstrably less. I am not trying to say that what happens to Felix at the start of Melusine isn’t dreadful. It is. But it’s a literary violation, and it reduces him to a literary madness that is as terrible and as beautiful as the horror that creates it.

But let’s talk about gang rape. Now there’s something you don’t say everyday.

The scene itself written in a very similar style – opulent, not too explicit although more explicit than above, and contains the same awkward issues of dubious consent. In Melusine, Felix chooses to go to Malkar in a fit of self loathing. In Corambis he agrees theoretically to an orgy in order to raise money for Mildmay’s medical treatment. In both cases what ends up happening to him is far more devastating than what he originally signed up for but, equally, there’s an element of complicity to it. If you return to your abusive master, expect to get abused. If you agree to be the centerpiece of an orgy, expect to get fucked. This abject stupidity is granted a psychological plausibility because Felix is a messed up little bunny, with a supposedly tragic conviction of his own profound worthlessness.

Obviously I don’t want to get into real issues here, but I think the reason the dubious consent became one of the bothering aspects of the scene in Corambis is that the sex abuse came plot-approved. I mean, if Felix was walking down the street and happened to get jumped and gang raped by a bunch of guys I think many a reader might rightly cry “Sarah Monette, what the fuck?” as there are very few occasions in which it is either appropriate or necessary to get one of your characters gang raped. But this way he has a “real” reason to put himself voluntarily into a position where he might be. It’s even, perhaps, meant to be on some level noble – in a hopelessly fucked up way, of course. So what you end up with is a deeply uncomfortable situation in which everything conspires, including (conveniently) Felix himself, to create a scenario in which a horrible but beautifully written gang rape is, to an extent, okay. And this is where the aesthetic of suffering starts to come apart at the seams.

Essentially this scene falls right into the uncanny valley. If it was purely designed for titillation I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but as it is there are elements are titillation and elements of horror. We are meant to be shocked and appalled – and it is shocking and appalling – but it’s framed in such a way that we are simultaneously liberated to relish the aesthetic. And quite frankly that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think there’s something profoundly hypocritical and, indeed, deeply disturbing in the idea of enjoying both moral outrage and illicit sexual excitement (see Joss Whedon’s Dollhouse). The scene bears all the hallmarks of erotic non-con (there are elements of psychological exposure as well as physical, the victim is physically aroused throughout, the abusers are appreciative of his beauty and his apparent eagerness, and so on and so forth) but worked through a guilt-appeasing filter of “oh gosh, isn’t this terrible.”

My ankles were still chained and somebody had me scruffed like a kitten; I was keening in protest, but I was dragged upright, forced to straddle someone’s thighs, while he continued fucking me with the same relentless steadiness. I was displayed for all of them, my arousal jutting out shamelessly, the tear tracks on my face attesting to my weakness.

Now, I know that, unlike erotic non-con, Felix is not secretly into what’s being done to him and that he’s breaking and being broken here but you still have a scene that’s running in two directions simultaneously and trying to have its cake and eat it. It goes out of its way to tick the non-con wink-wink boxes but then slaps you face in the face with its insistence that this a terrible and traumatic event. Essentially you can’t have a gorgeously written gang rape that positions itself within a carefully constructed aesthetic framework and a psychologically accurate and traumatic portrait of a terrible ordeal.

And, ultimately, I guess you have to ask yourself if it’s okay to have an aesthetic gang rape scene full stop. The idea bothers me less as pornography but here, I would argue, that it gains an added erotic piquancy from the fact it really is annihilating Felix, which, again is troublesome. Essentially it’s why raping Clarissa is so much more interesting than raping Justine, and why it’s all right to get off on the latter and not the former.

The more I’ve thought about this and tried to articulate my issues with it, the more complex and convoluted it has become. There is, of course, an element of the purely personal about – I didn’t like it and it upset me – as well as these more abstract, intellectualizations of it. I dug around on Monette’s Livejournal – on which is usually charming and sensible – to see what I could find and, lo and behold, she has written quite comprehensively on the subject, which I shall now quote pretty much in its entirety:

I knew from very early on that Felix was going to turn back to prostitution to get the money for a doctor for someone he loved (I knew this was going to happen before I knew Mildmay existed), and I knew that he was going to end up in a situation that was completely out of his control and that hurt him badly. Because Felix is reckless and self-destructive and because under all his vanity, he doesn't think he's worth protecting. And because it is a kind of answering horror to his being raped by Malkar at the beginning of Mélusine. And because he needed something that would force him to confront these issues--force him to see that he doesn't deserve to be abused--and it had to be something superlatively unbearable if it was going to get through to him, because Felix has way too much experience at ignoring his own pain.

Say what? So it’s redemptive gang rape, the sort makes you a stronger and better person? What … the … fuck? It’s like those Hollywood amnesia plotlines (one blow to the head gives you amnesia, another blow cures it) except with sexual abuse. I know, again, we’re operating in a fictional sphere but this is so made of wrong that I’ll just content myself with linking to Dan’s article on

the victim dilemma

and throw my hands up in despair.

I quite enjoy Monette’s aestheticisation of suffering, I could probably navigate the uncanny valley if I really had to but I am sick to death of male fantasy writers using sexual abuse as a textual shortcut for character development and I’m damned if I’m going to deal with women doing the same thing. Sarah Monette, you are better than this.

Sexual abuse is not good for you. It happens and people react. Constantly depicting characters who react to it in courageous and life-enhancing ways is not empowering, it’s fucking demeaning to people who struggle along every day as best they can.

I’m sure in a different time in a different mood I’ll pick up Corambis again and I’ll get to page 152 and I’ll shrug and go “gang rape, meh” and read right on.

But not today.Themes:

Damage Report

,

Books

,

Sarah Monette

,

Sci-fi / Fantasy

~

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~Comments (

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Arthur B

at 14:44 on 2009-04-27It's depressing when series go south like this. It's especially annoying when they burn down the virtues of the earlier volumes. I was looking at your first Monette review and you were saying how you were impressed by the fact that Felix was gay, but it kind of wasn't a big deal; I'm getting the impression that as the series goes on that becomes less true, since that LJ extract makes it sounds like Monette intended all along to reduce Felix to a weepy gay man being abused by angry gay men. (If I'm interpreting that right - if Felix pimping himself out predates the existence of Mildmay, that means that Monette was planning to make this happen since before the first book, right?)

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Wardog

at 15:11 on 2009-04-27Mmm, that's part of the problem though. I don't actually think it's "gone south" - despite the Xtreme angst I was quite absorbed until page 152. It was merely that scene that tripped me out. I'm sure if I could put it behind me and just get on with the book, I'd probably really like it.

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Rude Cyrus

at 20:32 on 2009-04-27Great, now I need a shower.

While I suppose rape can be presented as being aesthetically pleasing, like in erotic non-con, I still don't like it. I've always found consenting sex between happy, willing partners infinitely more pleasurable -- don't ask me why. This sort of stuff just makes my skin crawl.

What's funny is that I can make it through The 120 Days of Sodom without blinking, but I think that's because De Sade insisted on using the driest, most tortured language possible.

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Wardog

at 21:15 on 2009-04-27Sorry Cyrus. I'm not sure but I think it's probably easier to be into erotic non-con / rape fantasy if you're a woman than a man, either because you're more likely to imagine yourself as the rapee rather than the rapist which is slightly easier to deal with morally speaking or because the world seems generally reluctant to admit that women can rape people too. Whereas if you're a man who fantasies about forcing women to have sex with him ... well ... hostility many ensue from quarters unwilling to concede the very real difference between fantasy, reality and simulated non-con.

Hmm, I think the thing about 120 Days of Sodom is that, as you say, it's incredibly dull. And de Sade is a terrible writer. There's only one thing worse than a rape scene and that's a badly written rape scene!

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Arthur B

at 21:18 on 2009-04-27I do wonder sometimes whether deSade was an early pen-and-paper troll. Most of his books seem to be the literary equivalent of telling someone a particular link goes to an interesting and thought-provoking philosophy website when actually it points to goatse or 2girls1cup.

I mean, he went to jail for it, but you have to make sacrifices for "the lulz", as I believe the young people call it these days.

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http://roisindubh211.livejournal.com/

at 02:43 on 2009-04-28"Constantly depicting characters who react to it in courageous and life-enhancing ways is not empowering, it’s fucking demeaning to people who struggle along every day as best they can."

I have to disagree here- not with the point you make, but with the accusation being levelled at Monette. Felix has spent three books getting abused and every reaction to it has been, basically, "I was right all along, I am worthless. Hmmm, should I hurt myself again or just re-alienate everyone who cares about me tonight?" The enormity of the gang-rape is something he's not prepared to consider his just desserts, and it isn't the only influence on his growth as a person. A lot has to do with having Mildmay -who has been developing his own self-confidence, on his own, without the help of shitty things happening to him- be there for him and push and push to get him (Felix) not to hurt himself any more.

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Wardog

at 09:13 on 2009-04-28

The enormity of the gang-rape is something he's not prepared to consider his just desserts, and it isn't the only influence on his growth as a person.

I do see your point and I wasn't really dissing Monette, who I actually adore. There was just something about this scene, or the way it was presented, or *something* that was a bridge too far for me. And at first I was inclined to just ignore it and tell myself to stop being a wuss and then I got interested in *why* this scene was so problematic and, secondarily, I realised that, on a wider level, it should probably be okay to stand up and say "for me, this gang rape is not okay."

I will at some point finish Corambis, because I have *hugely* enjoyed the Doctrine of Labyrinths quartet (I have some reviews knocking around here in which I give much sweet sweet love), I think I just need some time to get away from the gang rape.

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Wardog

at 09:29 on 2009-04-28

I do wonder sometimes whether deSade was an early pen-and-paper troll

Dan and I like the idea of historical trolls, and also explains the Marquis far more than most of pop-psych nonsense I've read does =P

Lucifer, of course, would be the first troll - complaining about the mods.

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http://miss-morland.livejournal.com/

at 11:54 on 2009-04-28*giggles at the thought of de Sade and Lucifer as trolls*

I haven't read Monette's books, but I still found this post very interesting - it articulates my issues with non-con and dub-con in fiction very well. (I do wonder, though, if ambiguous portrayals of rape scenes are sometimes meant to make the readers think and question their own attitudes, instead of jumping to the safe reaction of 'OMG so horrible'?)

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Dan H

at 14:25 on 2009-04-28

I do wonder, though, if ambiguous portrayals of rape scenes are sometimes meant to make the readers think and question their own attitudes, instead of jumping to the safe reaction of 'OMG so horrible'?)

You might well be right, but even if that is the intent, it's a deeply flawed one.

Perhaps I'm just an arrogant shit, but I really hate it when people try to make me think about stuff unless it's in a medium *specifically designed* for that.

If you want to challenge my preconceptions about rape, write a book that is *about* challenging my preconcieved notions about rape. Don't try to do it in the middle of a fantasy series that is mostly about hot gay wizards gettin' it on.

If I want to have my ideas about absuse challenged, I'll read Lolita, or possibly I'll track down some abuse-survivors' weblogs. I won't read an otherwise ordinary fantasy novel or, for that matter, watch

Dollhouse

.

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Dan H

at 16:05 on 2009-04-28

The enormity of the gang-rape is something he's not prepared to consider his just desserts

I can't speak for Kyra, but the problem I have with this is that it suggests, falsely, that the more traumatic an experience is the less likely you are to blame yourself for it. I'm by no means an expert on the subject of abuse survival but from my limited experience people's tendency to self-blame for things is wholly unrelated to the severity of the abuse suffered. For that matter, the whole idea of rating abuse experiences in order of severity is a bit of a dodgy precedent.

Essentially I think there's an important, and worrying, difference between "Felix has experienced things like this before but, because he has grown as a person, and because of the influence of Mildmay, he does not blame himself for this experience" and "Felix has experienced things like this before but, because this experience is so much worse than the others, he cannot blame himself for it".

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http://sistermagpie.livejournal.com/

at 21:38 on 2009-05-01I haven't read this last book yet, but I'm glad for the heads-up. Having read the other 3 I can definitely see how this kind of thing would play, and I'm not surprised that she'd planned something like this from the beginning. It does make you think thought, about the idea that this character is constantly going through situations like this, and it's finally when he acheives the kind of abuse he might have always thought would be what he deserved, that he realizes he didn't deserve it. Even if Mildmay and other experiences are also part of his turnaround, I don't know whether that kind of catalyst will click for me the way another one might.

Like, rather than having him be in a situatio that's the same as before, but with one clear difference that makes him see it clearly, it's almost like Helen Keller at the well. Repeated fingerspelling over and over and finally he gets it.

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Wardog

at 15:28 on 2009-05-11I lost this temporarily in the deluge of comments about other things.

It is possible I've over-reacted to the gang rape; I suppose responses to these sort of motifs are always going to be extremely personal. I feel almost hypocritical because, as you say, there's plenty of indication previously that we were on the Sex Abuse Superhighway and something like this was probably bound to happen. But the way it's framed and written, combinated with its narrative function as a catalyst for change really really squicked me out. I know it's not necessarily meant to be psychologically plausible but there's something deeply worrying in the idea that there is a scale of sexual abuse, the extreme end of which teaches you self respect.

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valse de la lune

at 14:04 on 2011-07-12I tracked down

this interview

and I'm now extremely, thoroughly grossed out with Sarah Monette:

I think this does happen to gay male protagonists (the most obvious example is Mercedes Lackey's Last Herald-Mage books). And I think Felix does fall into this trap to a certain extent, although in my defense I will say that the reason he gets raped is because I was interested in the tension inherent in a character who could be both rapist and victim. Which could have been a woman, or a heterosexual man, but it was most obvious and easiest to mobilize with a gay man. I also chose a gay male protagonist because my abiding interest is in the power dynamics of human relationships, especially sexual relationships, and it is VERY VERY HARD to write about that with a heterosexual female protagonist without pigeon-holing her and yourself into either a re-inscription of patriarchal gender roles (male dominant, female submissive) or a simple gender reversal (female dominant, male submissive) (which I did work with some in my novella, "A Gift of Wings," in The Queen in Winter). A lesbian relationship is also a possibility, but it's far more interesting and attention-grabbing to take power away from a man than it is to give power to a woman. [...] Also, because we live in a patriarchal society and have for several thousand years, there's nothing new or shocking about the idea that women are victims. (I'm not saying this is a good thing, mind you.) You can get more narrative charge out of victimizing a man and you aren't reinscribing the same old gender role patterns into that ever deeper groove of men act and women suffer.

What the fuck, Monette? My word, lesbian relationships aren't just ~hawt~ enough unlike slender

yaoi stereotypes

wizards sexing it up and... female empowerment is just too boring? Female victimization is just too

banal

to write about so gay men being degraded (and in this case, often raped by women) has more "narrative charge"? There's also something toward the end that basically goes "well, if you are writing about male rape it's super

titillating

shocking so people will recognize RAPE IS HORRIBLE whereas women being raped is just so

every day

so... hey, manpain! That'll get people

thinking

, right? Right!"

I don't know, all of this reads like the slash fangirl's justification why she's not interested in writing girls but wants to write hot boys instead, all disguised under a pretend layer of ~*soshul justeese*~.

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Wardog

at 23:33 on 2011-07-12Oh dear. I'm actually really annoyed with myself that it took me to Book IV to unpack what was going on with the, err, sexay mainpain and all the arse rape. I did quite like Monette initially - I think partially because when I first read Melusine I was still under the impression that gay characters were pretty rare in fantasy. To give Monette credit, when she actually bothers to be interested in them, she does write interesting female characters - I mean I *loved* Mehitabel from this series.

I think what freaks me out the most is that, as you observe, it's blatant titillation under the label of trangression. I have no problems with people getting their kicks from whatever they get their kicks from, as long as it's a carefully demarcated fantasy space, but pretending it's anything else is deeply toxic.

Also that interview was just awful :(

Maybe it's just because it doesn't apply to me but I don't understand why so many women find two dudes so unbelievably hawt but two women apparently tedious. Ho hum.

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valse de la lune

at 05:06 on 2011-07-13I think gay characters are still pretty rare in fantasy, but the gay dudes all seem to come from the same wellspring of fanfic tropes. I've read all the arguments as to why dudeslash is a female-positive space that enables women to explore their sexuality and I do get some of it, but I can't shake the feeling that so much of that is hot air; no matter how hard a slash fan argues I can't really see how spamming rape at gay dudes is particularly, y'know, feminist. Maybe it plays with power dynamics and whatnot but, on the other hand,

rape culture

.

I don't get the thing with YAY HAWT BOYS EWW GIRLS ARE BORING either, though it's been explained to me that most female characters aren't decently written so people'd sooner generate fanfic about boys instead. But that doesn't fly because fandom churns out great volumes of fanfic dedicated to minor male characters, even though some of them barely have a presence in the book/show/movie--see Figwit of the LOTR movies fame--whereas women, primary or tertiary, still get written out or villified. There are even

bingo cards

. Somewhere in that

is

a valid clause regarding how we're trained to look at media through male gateways thanks to patriarchy and we internalize that. Still don't get it on a personal level because I've always preferred female characters over male, but there it goes.

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Melissa G.

at 06:30 on 2011-07-13

Maybe it's just because it doesn't apply to me but I don't understand why so many women find two dudes so unbelievably hawt but two women apparently tedious. Ho hum.

Speaking as a straight woman who gets paid to translate yaoi, I can understand that pretty well. :-) It's not that I find girls boring as characters, but as someone who isn't sexually attracted to women, I find myself gravitating toward situations where I can look at/write about two sexy boys instead if I'm looking for smexy times. (Though I'm very, very picky these days about yaoi because of tropes I'm sure I've mentioned before.)

I feel some sympathy for Monette because I do have a hard time verbalizing my tastes without resorting to those same basic arguments about power play or feeling the need to judge the female character and how she is portrayed specifically because she's female (which I wish I didn't, but I do so...). What I find odd is the fact that everyone insists on asking me *why* I find male-on-male romance so appealing, and then I'm stuck in this hem-hawing, putting-on-airs defense because I'm too embarrassed to just go, "Two guys doing stuff to each other is hot?"

(Uh-oh, now I'm having Dorian Gray flashbacks. Oh, Ben Barnes, you scamp, you!!)

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Steve Stirling at 07:07 on 2011-07-13

I don't get the thing with YAY HAWT BOYS EWW GIRLS ARE BORING either

-- you get exactly the same in reverse from male writers a lot, so I don't see that there's any mystery about it.

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valse de la lune

at 07:20 on 2011-07-13I don't think Kyra's asking "why male-on-male?" but more "why do people find women inexplicably boring?"

but as someone who isn't sexually attracted to women, I find myself gravitating toward situations where I can look at/write about two sexy boys instead if I'm looking for smexy times.

That doesn't make sense to me because, even outside of sexual context, a lot of slashers just don't want to write women period and I'm sure we don't always only write about what's sexually/romantically attractive to us (or no straight man would ever write male characters).

It also doesn't really answer why women are so villified and hated by fandom at large: why people like Monette believe "it's more interesting to take power away from a man than to give power to a woman," or why slash is passed off as some wonderful female-positive space when it involves a lot of female-negative things, including but not limited to slut-shaming and othering women. Ogle hot boys, whatever (but even so, why so much fucking rape all the fucking time? Why the infantilizing tropes?). But I think you can do that without contributing to misogyny and rape culture.

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Steve Stirling at 07:24 on 2011-07-13

I don't think Kyra's asking "why male-on-male?" but more "why do people find women inexplicably boring?"

-- I don't. I actually had to start flipping coins at one point to make sure my characters weren't predominantly female.

Maybe it's because I was in single-sex schools for a lot of my adolescence, but I just find women more interesting than men. More complex and variable, on average.

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Steve Stirling at 07:38 on 2011-07-13

Ogle hot boys, whatever (but even so, why so much fucking rape all the fucking time? Why the infantilizing tropes?). But I think you can do that without contributing to misogyny and rape culture.

-- I don't read much (any, really) slash, but the actually-published equivalents like the book described here don't seem particularly misogynist to me. Just obsessed with Hot Boys in Chains.

As for the rape and stuff, a lot of people get off on that. Trying to tell people that the sexual fantasies which ring their chimes aren't permissible is roughly equivalent to trying to scold water until it voluntarily runs uphill. Much effort, little result.

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valse de la lune

at 07:45 on 2011-07-13

I don't. I actually had to start flipping coins at one point to make sure my characters weren't predominantly female.

Thank you, Minority Warrior, but if you are a bloke that's not exactly addressed to you.

I don't read much (any, really) slash, but the actually-published equivalents like the book described here don't seem particularly misogynist to me. Just obsessed with Hot Boys in Chains.

I've only read the first book and the gang-rape scene in the fourth, but a lot of the women in this series like to rape gay men for some strange reason.

Melusine

opens with an anecdote about the pure, true love between men. Two women get between it; one proceeds to rape one of the men repeatedly until he wants to kill himself. So, yes, both fandom slash and published slash perpetuate a lot of the same crap. Then there's Monette's interview and strange leaps of illogic which read sexist as hell to me.

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Melissa G.

at 08:48 on 2011-07-13

That doesn't make sense to me because, even outside of sexual context, a lot of slashers just don't want to write women period and I'm sure we don't always only write about what's sexually/romantically attractive to us (or no straight man would ever write male characters).

I can't speak to that. I don't know why so many writers are so anti-female characters, and it would take me pages of musing to try and come to a conclusion. I was referring specifically to sexual situations (by which I mean stories centering on sex) because the comment I was particularly responding to was "why do so many women find two dudes so unbelievably hot but two women apparently tedious". Which I read as "why do so many women love writing about two guys (sexually) but find writing about two women so boring (sexually)". Perhaps I misinterpreted what Kyra was saying. I stated clearly that I don't find women boring as characters to read and write about, but that I understand why many women gravitate toward male homosexual relationships and why they might find it arousing when they are writing merely to titillate themselves/others.

I haven't read the series in question so I take everyone's word for it that the rape isn't handled well and misogyny abounds. And trust me, I'm the first person to get fed up with the kind of tropes male-on-male stuff tends to come with - especially when written by someone who's probably never even spoken to a gay man before. I got fed up with one author in particular because her protagonists kept falling for their rapists, yuck. But just because a lot of it sucks and perpetuates some seriously shitty stuff doesn't mean that it's not okay to find guy-on-guy stuff hot. And I really don't appreciate being made to feel like because I like it, I am somehow in danger of losing my feminist card.

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valse de la lune

at 09:57 on 2011-07-13I don't think I have been suggesting that if you like slash, you're in danger of losing your feminist cred; being a feminist doesn't exactly mean everything you consume must be feminist, after all, and we all enjoy things that are problematic to some degree. I just don't like how it's put forward as a YAY WOMEN field when it's not really. Likewise, I've been shouted down in fandom spaces for calling out misogyny in slash, something along the line of

you will find it is you who is misogyny

.

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valse de la lune

at 10:06 on 2011-07-13(Sorry that I'm coming down harshly such that you feel you're being discredited as a feminist, though.)

One more thing--I've been told over and over that there is a strong presence of queer women in slash circles, so for some it's not so much a matter of "I'm straight so more cocks yay!!!" In fact, with so many queer women around--so many lesbians even--you'd think there would be more F/F fanfic. But there isn't, so...

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Melissa G.

at 10:23 on 2011-07-13

I don't think I have been suggesting that if you like slash, you're in danger of losing your feminist cred

I think I was responding defensively to this comment:

Ogle hot boys, whatever (but even so, why so much fucking rape all the fucking time? Why the infantilizing tropes?). But I think you can do that without contributing to misogyny and rape culture.

It basically felt to me like my entire sexual preference/fetish/whatever was being boiled down to "ogling hot boys". It’s those kinds of dismissive, judgmental comments that make me feel like I need to somehow justify what I find arousing. That’s why you have people arguing that it’s pro-women or empowering or whatever to write and read man-on-man love stories. When an attraction is called into question, I think often women in particular feel the need to base that attraction in something intellectual and philosophical. Because it would be wrong for a woman to just find something titillating or arousing. Because women aren’t supposed to like sex just for sex.

I think there are ways that it can be empowering (I wouldn't go so far as to say 'feminist'), but most of it fails in this regard. For me, when I read a story with a male bottom that I can relate to as far as sexual behavior, it makes me feel less weird. There's something freeing about the behavior being related to the position and not the gender, for me anyway. I think that also relates to why an author might find it more interesting (and by interesting I mean because they find it hot) to take power away from men. For some women who are attracted to men, there is something very fascinating and seductive about a man submitting (either sexually or emotionally), probably because it's something so commonly associated with female behavior. So again, it becomes less of a gender thing and more of a relationship role thing. If that makes any sense....

I just don't like how it's put forward as a YAY WOMEN field when it's not really.

I totally understand that. I actually avoid fan written slash like the plague because most of it is just not good. Most of it is (I think) influenced by yaoi, which oh dear god, has such problems. There is so much rape and questionable consent and a lot of "I'm only gay for that guy" and such overly traditional female behavior (even though one of them is male, go figure). And the kind of people you've probably argued with are likely the kind of people who make me afraid to admit I'm part of the yaoi subculture.

But there is good stuff out there. I promise. :-)

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Melissa G.

at 10:26 on 2011-07-13

One more thing--I've been told over and over that there is a strong presence of queer women in slash circles, so for some it's not so much a matter of "I'm straight so more cocks yay!!!" In fact, with so many queer women around--so many lesbians even--you'd think there would be more F/F fanfic. But there isn't, so...

Sorry, I made my long post before I saw this! That is odd. Why don't they focus on yuri? Yuri is slowly becoming a more female dominated genre. It's kind of cool actually that the female authors are slowly co-opting a genre that was once basically male-written lesbian porn for men. To each their own, I guess?

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valse de la lune

at 10:59 on 2011-07-13

It basically felt to me like my entire sexual preference/fetish/whatever was being boiled down to "ogling hot boys".

But... I said that because I think it's pretty dandy if you're just in it for the ogling of hot boys, or balls being cupped gently, or even self-lubing anuses. I don't think you, or anyone else, need to justify it any further than that. Think it's hot? Go for it! That's excellent. Objectifying

men

in and of itself, separate from the concern over straight people fetishizing homosexuality, doesn't really bother me. I'm not questioning the appeal of slash: I'm questioning some of the tropes, the homophobia, the misogyny. Which certainly aren't universal, but there sure is a lot of them to go around. Hell, gay male characters written by straight men also get raped an awful lot (hi Richard Morgan, thank you for that graphic schoolboy gang rape).

Disclosure: I think lesbians are awesome. I'd like to read more stuff with lesbian representation. Being homoromantic does have something to do with it, though.

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Melissa G.

at 11:11 on 2011-07-13

But... I said that because I think it's pretty dandy if you're just in it for the ogling of hot boys, or balls being cupped gently, or even self-lubing anuses. I don't think you, or anyone else, need to justify it any further than that.

:-) I think it just came off as hostile because of the swearing, lol. To be honest, I was probably overly defensive because it's kind of a touchy thing for me.

I'm not questioning the appeal of slash: I'm questioning some of the tropes, the homophobia, the misogyny.

Yes, I'm with you here. I have a lot of trouble with a lot of boy/boy stuff that's out there.

Re: Lesbians

If you're looking to try out some yuri, I can lead you to some scanlation sites. I haven't read much yuri so I can't totally vouch for the content, but these are sites that I know of:

Lililicious

Payapaya

Just be sure to check for ratings and such. There was one on Lilicious I read years ago that I was enjoying.

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valse de la lune

at 11:14 on 2011-07-13OMG yay :D :D :D Thanks for the links. My friend's been sending me some too. I'm also quite pleased to see that a lot of yuri writers are female. Awesome.

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Cammalot

at 15:23 on 2011-07-13I JUST WANNA WATCH DUDES EMOTE. ;-)

I actually got into yaoi (not slash for whatever reason) because I was attracted to what I thought was the innate equality in such a a relationship. There are a variety of reasons I don't really seek out much fanfic anymore (one of which is the decade-plus that has gone by) but one of them is that I don't really see that equality getting embraced. (I'm necessarily truncating this, I have to imitate being a productive employee at the moment.)

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Melissa G.

at 19:40 on 2011-07-13

I JUST WANNA WATCH DUDES EMOTE. ;-)

Ooh, yes, good observation. I like that too.

I actually got into yaoi (not slash for whatever reason) because I was attracted to what I thought was the innate equality in such a a relationship.

Ditto. That's what I really like about it too, which is why I hate when they skew the power dynamic too far in one direction without somehow compensating for it in another way. I've never been into fanfic, but I do love doujinshi.

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Cammalot

at 19:48 on 2011-07-13I wrote up this whole long comment yesterday, but today with you guys' further conversation I realized I was addressing something that Pyro was not talking about, so I'm tweaking, but I don't think I'll have a chance to get to it today.

The extremely short version is that there's a very definite blockage that some women seem to have about writing women, and I had it myself for some time (and that some more extreme versions of it outright baffle me), and have spent a lot of time trying to process, discuss, and debate what the fuck that is about. With theories. I have theories.

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Melissa G.

at 19:53 on 2011-07-13

The extremely short version is that there's a very definite blockage that some women seem to have about writing women,

Definitely noticed this myself at times. I gravitate toward writing male characters, or at least I used to. I'm very interested to hear your theories whenever you find the time to write them up. :-)

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Sister Magpie

at 20:07 on 2011-07-13

Sorry, I made my long post before I saw this! That is odd. Why don't they focus on yuri? Yuri is slowly becoming a more female dominated genre. It's kind of cool actually that the female authors are slowly co-opting a genre that was once basically male-written lesbian porn for men. To each their own, I guess?

I would guess that that's probably not all that related to the whole "that's my kink" thing, only not all kinks are sexual. That is, expecting them to explain it would probably be similar to having anybody explain why they find one thing more hot than another.

For instance, I like het and I like slash, but there are certain kinds of stories that could definitely be considered non-sexual kinks that I am more likely to read about in a m/m pairing than a f/m pairing or f/f pairing. I suppose I could try to relate it to power issues with gender IRL, but it's probably more just a kink if it's something I've pretty much always been drawn to.

I don't find that rape or "I'm only gay for that guy" seems to dominate most of the slash I come across, but I think that might often come down to different pairings leaning towards different dynamics. Or else also some authors being better than most.

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Steve Stirling at 22:44 on 2011-07-13Pyrofennec:

-of the women in this series like to rape gay men for some strange reason.Melusine opens with an anecdote about the pure, true love between men. Two women get between it; one proceeds to rape one of the men repeatedly until he wants to kill himself.

-- that is odd. I'd say it was evidence of misogyny if a guy wrote it, but I have trouble -imagining- a guy writing it, even a gay man. You'd need a very strange set of quirks to do so.

#Ferretbrain #Corambis #Sarah Monette #Wardog

[zivitz]

I can’t reblog this post so I’m just gonna copy and paste my reply. And then I have better things to do with my brain space than respond to people who are  attempting to browbeat me into submission while simultaneously refusing to allow me to participate, explain, or elaborate on my POV. So I might be talking to myself here, but it makes me feel better. To my followers, I’m sorry for the novel.

@trashpandabarnes ( @trashpanda-barnes) wrote:

yeah, abusing and gaslighting your “daughter” whose family who burnt to the ground, whom you tried to manipulate and sacrificed AGAINST HER WILL, as she ACTIVELY EXPRESSED HER DESIRE TO FREE HERSELF FROM YOU but you threw her off the cliff’s edge because u want power, because you don’t actually care about your “daughter” but are ALL about making her tragedy of negligence and abuse ALL YOUR OWN self-vicimized manpain is totally the characteristics of a fantastique dad™, ooof i could go on and on on the Gamora thing alone but then there’s Nebula who you mistreated her whole life and constantly pit her against the only person who she felt like she could have a connection to, and never passed up a chance to insult her, saying killing her would be a “waste of parts”. Boi oh boi @zivitz never fucking have kids dude if you think saying/doing this kind of shit to your kids is still gonna get u the award of father of the year bc no matter how much u claim u love ur kids, it doesn’t fucking excuse the abuse and also never have a girlfriend if this is how you think women are to be treated in fiction/otherwise —its 2018, women deserve  better than to  be treated as plot device for a self-importance asshole’s cringey angst. Get tf outta here with your apologist attitude, dufe. Thanos shows no remorse or no acknowledgement of faults and therefore, no character growth. He is stubborn and self-absorbed and a deadass weak villian. Marvel went about wrong with constantly trying to sympathize him, he’s a purple egoistic maniac and that is not an appealing character trait and should NOT have been glamorized by marvel for edgy fanboys like you with barely one working braincell, end of.

First of all, and this must be embarrassing for you- I’m not a guy. At least, I hope it’s embarrassing, because you’re making a fuck of a lot of assumptions based on this belief and they’re all wrong.

There seems to be a lot of thought going around that I am, and I quote, “pro-Thanos”. That I defend his actions or justify them in any way. That I think he’s a swell guy who’s just a misunderstood woobie. Or something. I think you’re confusing me with the Loki fangirls, but whatever.

Thanos being both capable of love and actually loving Gamora doesn’t make him a good person. It’s pretty clear throughout the movie that Gamora is literally the only person he loves. At all. In the universe. Except for himself, that is. Just because he’s capable of loving Gamora doesn’t mean he loves Nebula- I mean, clearly he fucking hates her. He doesn’t love the Black Order. I have a hunch that they started out as his ‘children’ in terms of being under his protection, guidance, and doing his bidding, but he was taken by Gamora and she became his daughter in thought and deed as well as word.

I have never ever said he was a good father, either. He clearly was not; no good parent puts their child through that kind of pain. No good parent rips a child away from their family, kills them, forces them into a life they neither are ready for nor would have chosen. A good parent (even most bad parents) doesn’t pit children against each other. Gamora had an abusive childhood, flat out. No one’s arguing that. Thanos is a big fat child abuser. He abused her (and Nebula, and probably the Black Order) to suit his own purpose. It was bad and wrong and fucked them all up royally and none of them deserved that.

Now take a step back and get the fuck of your high horse for a minute, and look at it from Thanos’s perspective. He is the hero of his own story. That’s what we were meant to see in Infinity War. A peek at the story from his point of view. Not that we were supposed to believe he was right, not that they were saying he had a point, or that we should sympathize with him. We’re not supposed to see character growth because he’s not the hero and there is no redemption. We’re just seeing how things look from his vantage point.

He saw his world die and couldn’t stop it because no one was strong enough to do the terrible, awful thing that would have saved it.  And he saw the same things happening all over, so he decided he was the only one strong enough to do what needed to be done. And he worked hard at it. He collected his ‘children’, those he could raise and train to be strong like him and carry out his work. Carry on his work, if it lasted beyond his lifetime.

Gamora came along and was Different. In that deleted scene, he said himself he saw himself as alone and he was okay with that (he says in a voice that very much says he was Not Okay With That) because he had ‘a new vocation’. Until Gamora. He loved her. Took her under his wing, trained her, challenged her to be the best she could be. Gave her a family. Thought she, his favourite daughter, would be his heir. Wanted her to choose it, choose him, and let her leave when she didn’t instead of dragging her back and punishing her. He doesn’t really care that she’s rejecting him because he loves her regardless, but is hurt by the betrayal of her lies because she was the one person he trusted completely. He hurts her, but only as much as he has to to get what he needs. If he didn’t need to, he wouldn’t hurt her (we see this again and again- he could have killed Bruce, Groot, Cap, Wanda- and he didn’t. He just wanted them out of his way). His Vocation is more important at this point. And even then, he struggles with the decision that he must sacrifice the one person he loves and again be utterly alone- and live with the knowledge that he’s killed his child, his ‘everything’- for the sake of the Greater Good.

That’s how Thanos views himself. Is that how I view him? Not really. I mean, objectively speaking he did pretty fucking unspeakable things for what he thinks in his own incredibly misguided way is the right thing to do. Did Gamora deserve all that? Fuck, no. No one does. Did he love her during all of that, think he was doing what was best for her? Yup. Was it actually what was best for her? Fucking hell. No.

I love Gamora. I feel a great affinity for her because I grew up in an abusive household, where I was groomed and manipulated to be what my mother wanted and needed me to be. I was made in her image, to be useful to her and do what she needed and prop her up. I was her enabler for a long time. I didn’t break away from her until I was long into adulthood. And yet, I was loved. My mother thought she was doing the right thing by me. She thought she was making me into a strong person. She was doing her best to make me the best I could be by her vision. Because she loved me. She was wrong about what she was doing. She fucked me up in ways I’m still learning about.  I can see both worlds: the one my mother inhabits, and the real world.

I feel Gamora. I really, truly do. But liking Thanos, being able to see how he sees himself and yes, even feel bad for someone who’s suffering even if they’re a crazy abusive monster, doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. Doesn’t mean I think he’s justified, doesn’t make me an apologist. Doesn’t mean I love Gamora any less.

And it doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. That I support abuse, abusers, or would abuse anyone in any way. I work with very young children precisely because I was abused and no one helped me. And I want to keep that from happening to other children, to keep them from growing up like I did. It’s my own version of “There are little girls like you across the universe who are in danger. You can stay with us and help them.” You make a lot of assumptions about me, and we all know what they say about that. This is fandom, but we’re all people here. Maybe check yourself before you go shooting your mouth off about shit you know nothing about.

#Thanos #fandom drama #you don't have to agree with me #but fuck off with the personal attacks and assumptions #infinity war

[crimsonrevolt]

Congratulations Rue you’ve been accepted to Crimson Revolt as Cygnus Black

↳ please refer to our character checklist

Cygnus is a character we've all wanted to see taken for a long time, and with your application it's obvious to see what we were waiting for, Rue! The way you wrote him paints a clear picture of the man he is, and leaves so much to look forward to in how you'll develop him. You've done such a beautiful job of illustrating the patriarch of the Black family, and we cannot wait to see what you do with him here. Welcome to the group!

application beneath the cut (triggers: alcoholism, substance abuse mentions) 

OUT OF CHARACTER

INTRODUCTION

Hello! I’m Rue, 27, she/her, est. Unfortunately from ‘Murica.

ACTIVITY

7/10. I will be online for a large portion of the evenings, with plenty of extra time to write three days a week. No roommates, no interruptions.

HOW DID YOU FIND US?

I found this group through a promo blog and have just been keeping it bookmarked on my computer to eventually apply, once things calmed down at work.

WHAT HARRY POTTER CHARACTER DO YOU IDENTIFY WITH MOST?

Neville Longbottom is the only character who felt personal to me throughout the entire series. I absolutely adored the books, but all the other characters felt exactly like that: characters. He is forgetful, shy, and altogether uncomfortable with his own body. I just identified with that growing up, and even sometimes now as an adult.

ANYTHING ELSE?

Nope!

IN CHARACTER

DESIRED CHARACTER

Cygnus Black III

BIRTHDAY / STAR SIGN

August 10th, 1938. Leo, otherwise known as The Lion.

Just like the lions they are named for, many Leos that you meet will have quite a regal air about them. They like to surround themselves with a large social circle that will adore and appreciate them. Like our Sun in the solar system, Leo zodiac signs love being the center of attention. They thrive on flattery compliments - which often come to them easily.

A Leo will love luxury and material things. They like to amass wealth and choose jobs that have a great salary and allow them to lead. They make for great leaders and protectors. Because of this, they are often cornerstone of social groups and will lead in planning processes and decisions. Conversely, they often don’t do well in situations where they have to take orders from other people.

OCCUPATION

Cygnus Black drinks, smokes, and gambles – but he does not work. It is beneath him, beneath his wealth and his lineage, to lift a finger like the poorer class. And why would he be asked to? His father had set him up for a life of luxury, and so had his father before, and his father before that. Yes, he had to share his riches with his god awful sister – she had to have the first son, shealways had to take everything from him – but he needn’t worry. He was and still is, in his humble opinion, untouchable. His wealth, his reputation, his own section of family – it is more than enough to ensure he would never have to work a day in his life. And his children could follow suit, as he knew they would. The pure never worry for they are royalty.

FACE CLAIM

Colin Farrell

REASON FOR CHOSEN CHARACTER

There are too many reasons for why I’ve chosen to apply for Cygnus, so I’m just going to ramble on and on about it and hope someone understands my undying love for him. It sounds awful to be obsessed with that particular family, as well as the Rosier’s and Lestrange’s. They are psychopaths, they are vengeful, and cruel. They implement more torture than I could even discuss, but there is something so enticing about those sorts of characters. They have dimension, and needs, and desires that far surpass what a normal human being would crave. And Cygnus, out of all of them, is my favorite.

This is a character we know very little about, though we’ve gotten a larger taste of his children throughout the books. We can assume he is ravenous and harsh, that he wants control but lacks his own personal structure and therefore will never grasp it. He views himself as royalty, a fact we’ve learned about from the rest of his family. And now I’m applying for the chance to explore those small facts, and make them into something grander, more realistic. I want the chance to bring him alive.

In my head, he’s all temper tantrums and curses. I think he’s easily addicted to people and substances, that he’s proud of his wealth (though he did nothing to earn it), and harbors bitterness and hatred towards the rest of his family. He’s quick to act and slow to think, he’ll bite just as hard as he barks, and he often makes poor choices that lead him into trouble. There are those he is stable around, and there are those who set him off. I’ve got a list of headcanons about his family members, his friends, the people he’s most likely met throughout the war – all of which would need to be discussed with players!

I want to take on this highly psychotic, incredibly unstable man and bring depth to his actions.

PREFERRED SHIPS // CHARACTER SEXUALITY // GENDER & PRONOUNS

Closeted bisexual, he/him.

Cygnus has been married to Druella for years – feeling closer to centuries now, he will solemnly admit – but he doesn’t love her. Not now, though maybe for a time before. Just a brief moment of normalcy before they were to have children and become leaders, raise up their house and their future. Now, however, he despises her. He harbors such anger towards her, unspoken but clearly felt, that there are times when he cannot bear to be under the same roof. And it is those times that he finds men and women alike to pay him compliments, to gently stroke his arm, or tell him that they adore him. It is more and more difficult to find those people, he is aware, but a quick charm to anyone would do the trick.

And he is not above using magic to make himself feel desired.

CREATE ONE (OR MORE!) OF THE FOLLOWING FOR YOUR CHARACTER

PLOTS/CONNECTIONS.

Cygnus becomes easily obsessed with people – women, usually – and is horrifyingly creepy about them. He’ll treat them with the utmost respect and groom them to become genuinely obsessed with him, but also turns to stalking, manipulating, and eventually torturing them. I could imagine there are a lot of people he would fall into obsession with (men, too) and I would love to explore that. As terrible as that sounds.

I would love to explore his relationship with his family, too. Not only his children but his wife, his sister, and his brother-in-law. I have so many little headcanons that I would love to talk about, honestly. There are several things that must have happened to make him feel so strongly towards very specific people.

He is a Death Eater who has been sort of…pushed to the back. I can imagine that having Bellatrix so prevalent in that group would make him feel like he was a lesser man. Being sort of…usurped by a woman. Also, he feels he should take more of a leadership role. For that reason, I believe, he would like to start shoving himself into missions and situations where he may get noticed, pushed forward again, and adored. So there’s a lot there we could explore with other Death Eaters, or Order members, to put him in situations where he thinks he’s doing the right thing for himself – even if they’re actually hurting him.

Wow, I could come up with a thousand more. Friendship, or old bullies, or temper tantrums turned disaster. I would go for exploring Cygnus’ clear drinking problem, or his substance abuse, or his addiction to people. There are so many good things!!

♔ If you were able to invent one spell, potion, or charm, what would it do, what would you use it for or how would you use it? Feel free to name it:

“I don’t waste time on inventing. I don’t need to…not when the world is ready to be taken. I can drink all I want, and smoke all I want, and sleep with whomever I chose. I have everything I need here. Tell me one thing I need that I couldn’t buy, or name one person I couldn’t take – I dare you. Better yet, I’ll bet you. What’re you willing to put down?”

♔ You have to venture deep into the Forbidden Forest one night. Pick one other character and one object (muggle or magical), besides your wand, that you’d want with you:

“These questions are bullshit. I haven’t thought about the Forbidden Forest in years. Hm…I’ll humor you, though. Perhaps I’d bring Bellatrix, see what sort of woman she’s become. She takes after me, y’know. Not her mother. She’s destined to be a queen. Someday. I don’t know what we’d need other than our wands. Perhaps some whiskey, make a good night out of torture and murder.”

♔ What kinds of decisions are the most difficult for you to make?

“None. I have it easy. Everything seems to come to me with clarity. I know what to do and when to act, I know exactly what to say to get whatever I want.” He has trouble making simple decisions, though I don’t think his cocky brain even realizes it. Where to go, what to do, who to talk to, what he wants from a situation. He just acts and thinks later, and then wonders why he’s gotten himself into trouble.

♔ What is one thing you would never want said about you?

“That I’m not a king. Or that I’m not deserving. I’ll rip out the tongue of anyone daring enough to say it, then I’ll feed it to their dogs.”

REACTION TO LAST EVENT DROP

Cygnus has very, very mixed feelings on all that has happened. On the one hand, he is extremely pleased to find that the Death Eaters have seemingly gotten the upper hand. On the other, he’s annoyed that he has not been appointed leader in any scenario. He finds himself growing jealous of the Dark Lord and bitterness has been quick to follow. Although he isn’t much of a planner, he believes the Order, and Aversio, will crawl their way back up from their dark holes and fight back. In terms of war and strategy, he would have chosen to do things a lot differently than Voldemort, and he believes his way is a lot more accurate. But he’ll never voice those complaints, not when he knows their Lord is as brutal as they come. He may be open, honest, and crazy but Cygnus knows when to keep his lips sealed.

WRITING SAMPLE

Bile churned over and over in the abdomen of a man tipping over, legs sideways to catch a balance he never had, arms outstretched against the crevices of a brick wall. Behind his eyes swam the distant scenery replayed, spinning and circling, like water in a drain. He could feel himself sliding forward, then backward, and then forward again until pavement met his chin with a dull thud. It was painful in a way that he knew he would feel it for some time the next day, but that almost made him smile in the moment. There was nothing Cygnus Black enjoyed more than agony – and the quiet, annoyed words from his wife would certainly fall into that class.

This was the first time (in months, he’d bet) that he had fallen into such a stupor. If it hadn’t been for the woman at the pub he never would have forced down those last few whiskeys, although he could have sworn he hadn’t had too much to drink. There was one whiskey when he arrived, and one paid for by the man in the corner – and then food because he had called for it. And then she arrived in all her splendor, and he was left prone in an alleyway, awaiting strength and clarity, on only two more glasses of liquor.

The stranger had been a short blonde woman with the ability to suck the air out of a room, dressed head to toe in black. His eyes had fallen on her quickly and unashamed, surveying her curves and her structure, wondering how hard it would be to charm her into his bed. And his hopes had been realized when she stepped to him, glancing sideways, ordering herself the same that he had been having. Her accent was as thick and full as her lips, (French, he thought), and her laughter was honey. “Oh, well, I love to drink something hard. Takes only a little to do the trick.”

He thought maybe love could feel like that, a beautiful woman with a witty personality spending time on him, and then he had remembered that he would never feel love. Cygnus only knew royalty, he only knew worship, and he only understood obsession. He wondered how her hair would smell if he were to tug her closer, and he wondered what her screams would sound like if he were to curse her – but instead he sat, listened, and dreamt.

And then she murmured, “I love a good bet.”

His interest had piqued and, before he knew it, she was challenging him to make her laugh. And when he couldn’t, he was to take two shots. One for future luck, and one for losing.

After the second glass was slammed down, he had let out a sigh, and found the stranger was gone. Disappeared. And a part of him went with her into the night, a part that had so wanted to taste, that lost its only chance.

But reflecting presently, on the cold pavement, Cygnus realized what a trick that woman had played. A quick potion in his tumbler and everything was done, all she had to do was bet him. His anger flared up but whatever the stranger had slipped into his drink was effective – he could feel the blackness rising against the peripherals of his sight.

Click, click, click.

Heels resounded against the brick walls he had been leaning against, and with all of his remaining strength Cygnus rolled onto his side and gripped his wand.

“That won’t be necessary.” She murmured into the darkness, crouching down to rest a gentle hand on his exhausted face. Her accent, he realized with a jolt, was gone. “Oh, Mr. Black. You’re not hard to trick, are you?”

“Fuck…you.” He tried to hiss, but the sound seemed laughable.

“You would have liked that. Now, I just need to leave a message.”

“No.” He wasn’t even sure the word had come out.

“You need to be more careful.” She whispered, her body being sucked into blackness as he began fading. “You’re going to get yourself killed.”

And when he woke up, safe in his bed yet in a cold sweat, he understood nightmares often carried useful messages. But all he could think of was the thick bruise on his chin, and how he wanted to watch the world burn.

#lsrpg #cygnus black #collin farrell #hp rpg #marauders rpg

[secretlyatargaryen]

The Problem with Shae

I’ve had a lot of feelings about Shae floating around which I’ve found difficult to articulate as someone who is interested in reading asoiaf from both a feminist and a disability perspective because so much of Tyrion’s story is about how his relationships with women are informed by his disability. And Shae sits very closely at the heart of that. This is also muddied by how the author treats Shae, and further muddied by how the show has rewritten her to suit its needs.

The reality of Shae is that she is a sex worker who is murdered by her employer, the man who ostensibly loves her. She’s poor, barely legal by modern standards, and was probably a victim of sexual abuse as a child. A lot of blame ends up falling on Shae because she ends up having to testify against Tyrion during his trial, but it’s obvious that she has very little choice about the matter and is put into a very dangerous situation that Tyrion brought her into in the first place, and the violence of her death is extremely sexualized. That it is done by a character who was not only her lover and patron but someone we are supposed to sympathize with gave me a lot of pause when I first read it. It almost made me stop reading the series, as someone whose favorite character is Tyrion. Shae is treated horribly by both Tyrion and the narrative, and that is a big problem.

But the other problem is that Shae is, in the books, a hollow character and a pretty terrible person. This, of course, doesn’t make what happens to her any less awful. The show turns Shae into a Pretty Woman trope, someone who is able to see past Tyrion’s disability and love him the way he wants to be loved, and even to change him for the better (because show Tyrion is also a gendered stereotype, the frat boy who never grew up). Book Shae is literally the opposite of show Shae, someone who was only interested in Tyrion for his money after all. And I’ve seen a lot of people holding up and defending this aspect of Shae, which I don’t necessarily disagree with because hey, she’s just trying to make a living and Tyrion knows this, except that Tyrion is disabled. Shae’s interest in using him for his money necessarily involves exploiting his disability and his insecurity surrounding it. This is pretty explicit in the text, although it is somewhat hidden by Tyrion’s POV because of his desperate need for someone to love him which leads him to see what he wants to see in Shae and because of his lack of experience with women and loving relationships in general. (Experience paying for sex is not experience with women and relationships).

“M'lord will never be ugly in my eyes.” She kissed the scab that covered the ragged stub of his nose.

“It’s not my face that need concern you, it’s my father—”

“He does not frighten me. Will m'lord give me back my jewels and silks now? I asked Varys if I could have them when you were hurt in the battle, but he wouldn’t give them to me. What would have become of them if you’d died?”   

“I didn’t die. Here I am.”   

“I know.” Shae wriggled atop him, smiling. “Just where you belong.” Her mouth turned pouty. “But how long must I go on with Lollys, now that you’re well?”

Which, I mean. On the one hand, it’s not her job to love Tyrion, and it’s unfair to expect her to love him when she’s being paid to have sex with him. And part of her arrangement with Tyrion was that she would get all the silks and jewels she wanted, so I can’t blame her for her priorities. It’s unfair to expect a woman in this situation to be in it for anything other than the money. And a lot of the ways fandom condemns Shae for this are misogynistic.

But then you look at a conversation like this where Shae is dismissive of what Tyrion says, plays on vulnerabilities associated with his disability in order to manipulate him, and makes it very clear that the idea of him dying wouldn’t really hurt her that much, as long as she got her jewels. Imean, well of course she’s lying to you, Tyrion, you paid her to lie to you. But she’s lying to him in a way that exploits his feelings about his disability, and her comment about him dying is cruel and the only reason Tyrion doesn't notice it is because he wants to believe that she cares about him. Which he also paid her to pretend to do, but it’s not at all pleasant to read about and my first fandom encounters with this situation were all about praising Shae for manipulating an emotionally damaged disabled man as some kind of sexual empowerment, which kinda put a sour taste in my mouth and it hasn’t left. Again, yes I know Tyrion paid her to do this, but that doesn't mean it should be happening.

I mean, Shae is either not that good at her job or she just doesn’t care that much about Tyrion’s feelings, because the least she could do here is pretend to be sad that he might die. This is where I get into my issues with the way GRRM wrote her, because are we supposed to think Shae is just not that smart, are we supposed to think that she is smart and she just doesn’t care about Tyrion, or is GRRM just bad at writing her?

GRRM does drop a huge load of irony on us in ACOK:

“A different look, a different smell, a different way of walking,” said Tyrion [about Varys]. “Most men would be deceived.“ 

“And most women, maybe. But not whores. A whore learns to see the man, not his garb, or she turns up dead in an alley.”  

Which is pretty chilling to read in hindsight because of what happens to Shae later. But also I think that it is true that book Shae is the opposite of show Shae. Book Shae really did see Tyrion as a rich dwarf that she could exploit and nothing more, and she never considered him as anything other than harmless because she never truly saw him as a person. She underestimates him the way most people do because of his disability, and that’s evident even in her last scene where she tries the same old tricks she used before to manipulate him.

When I first joined fandom on tumblr I saw this quote being passed around a lot in discussions of Tyrion and Shae: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them, women are afraid that men will kill them.” Which is a true statement about male privilege and gendered violence, but when applied to Tyrion and Shae it ignores the context of Tyrion’s disability. People use this when they talk about Shae’s humiliation of Tyrion at his trial, but the problem with it is that Tyrion’s life is very much on the line in conjunction with being laughed at, in this specific situation and in others. He’s being framed for regicide. And in many contexts in the series people laugh about the murder and/or abuse of dwarfs. For Tyrion, being laughed at goes hand in hand with being abused and killed because it goes along with the specific ways that dwarfs are dehumanized, both in Westeros and in the real world, throughout history. Tyrion’s hatred of being laughed at isn’t male privilege, it’s a statement about his lack of privilege. Another thing about the trial scene in particular is that the way Tyrion is mocked is very sexual in nature, and plays on the ableism of the crowd. I understand certain reactions to this, because men tend to think that being mocked sexually is the worst thing and justify all sorts of nastiness for it, but Tyrion is not coming at this from a place of privilege, he’s coming at it as a disabled man whose sexuality is openly mocked. He’s also coming at it as a sexual abuse survivor.

Now, that said, I don’t think Shae is responsible for what she said at the trial. I think that Cersei and Tywin forced her to testify, although I think Shae was smart enough to play up on her own Tyrion as the sexual deviant monster and to play up her own innocence. What she says about him is so personal and that’s why it hurts so much. She brings up her pet name for him, one that is going to be inherently funny to the crowd and call attention to his disability, - a name that when they were alone made Tyrion feel good and like his disability didn’t matter - and frames it as if the name was his idea and not hers. Again, I don’t blame Shae for the shitty situation she is in but her testimony is awful to read and uncomfortably plays on ableist tropes.

Shae’s ableism is not limited to Tyrion. Of the very few interactions she has with other characters (which is itself a problem related to the way she is written) Shae also says problematic things about Lollys, and some pretty gross things about other women as well. She’s not a nice person and while I get the impulse to defend terrible female characters (I love terrible female characters!) the idea that it’s empowering for women to shit on other marginalized folks is something I really, really dislike and see often in fandom.

Another thing about Shae that is really sad and goes along with the fact that Shae just doesn’t have any significant interactions with characters other than Tyrion in the book is that even though Tyrion is her murderer, he’s also the only character that has any kind of empathy for her. This is a flaw with the writing, it’s a flaw that is so much bigger than Tyrion. The show tries to rectify this by having Shae interact with other characters, but they also created this mess of the character who ended up being a mix of stereotypes and faux empowerment, who still had to die when the plot called for it.

Note that I am NOT saying that Tyrion is the real victim here or that Shae wasn’t a victim of Tyrion and that her death wasn’t awful, but what I am saying is that there’s a reason why people react so strongly and so contentiously to this narrative and it’s not just because of misogyny directed at Shae (although there certainly is that, too, as well as classism), and I don’t like it when people disregard Tyrion’s disability as an aspect of his character in favor of focusing solely on his privilege, especially in a book series so full of commentary on power and abuse and how these things can be wielded in different ways.

#shae #tyrion lannister #asoiaf meta #rape cw #ableism cw

[kyluxtrashpit]

Okay so now for the real post. I was prepared to write this whole big thing about the kylux fandom and why I’m staying despite some things and such but honestly the movie was pretty good? As some of you know, I was fucking TERRIFIED I’d have to leave the ship (also shoutout to those who helped calm me down; you know who you are <3). I have some quibbles, which I’ll get into below, but overall it was pleasantly surprising. FYI this post of full of spoilers and please remember I spoiled myself on a good amount of it before going in. I’m also very happy I did

And also… this was all 100% in line with the headcanons I already had for kylux? I’ve seen a lot of people freaking out and jumping ship and saying we need to completely reimagine the characters, which, sure, if you want to, go nuts, but idk I didn’t personally get anything like that? Snoke pitting them against each other, because you know if he talked shit about Hux to Kylo, he’s definitely doing it the other way around too. And yes, Kylo does attack Hux, but Hux was also about to kill him before he woke up, even if Kylo doesn’t know that, so we’re in exactly the same place as before. I could talk a lot about why their characterizations are exactly in line with the way I saw and wrote them before and why Kylo taking on the mantle of Supreme Leader does not mean Hux is inferior to him in practice in any way, shape, or form, but this post is way too fucking long already so I’ll save it for another day

Instead, here’s a list of Thoughts in no particular order:

Kylo was fucking PHENOMENAL. This. This is what I wanted. My boy being unstable as fuck and making terrible split-second impulse decisions and getting himself in way over his head. He’s going to regret taking the throne in like 3 days. Guaranteed. He’s made the biggest mistake of his life and he doesn’t even know it yet because he has no idea what he actually wants, just saw an opportunity and went ‘oh shit… the throne is empty… wait. I know how to sit?? I could sit on it??? YES THIS IS A GREAT IDEA I’M THE NEW LEADER FUCK YES’. I fucking love my disaster boy. I love him so much I can’t even articulate it

Also like… Rey shows him one small moment of kindness and he’s immediately like ‘someone was nice to me??? okay cool this is all it took to convince me to kill my abusive mentor for the last better part of a decade who’s been in my head for almost my entire life just because of that’ and like… that is both the most Kylo thing I’ve ever seen and the biggest mood I’ve ever had. This is why we always wrote Hux capable of manipulating him and why Snoke was able to manipulate him; Kylo aches for positive attention from literally anyone

“I want every gun we have to fire on that man” JFC HONEY NO. But on a more serious note, the second the mask comes off, all of his control is gone. He’s trying so hard to assert his dominance and power over everyone he encounters because he thinks that will make him feel better, that it’s what he wants, but he’s so fucking out of control and out of his depth that it just utterly falls flat, just like in tfa after the mask came off. He can Force choke and throw people all he wants, literally no one is fooled. He has no idea what he’s doing and it’s staggeringly obvious

I also really liked seeing baby Ben, even for just like 10 seconds

Literally the only Kylo thing I did not like were his pants. Like goddamn boy, that waist is way too high. No wonder your temper is so finicky. I’d be angry too if I was wearing uncomfortable, excessively high-waisted pants all the time

I, too, did not like the dumb humour with Hux (see: the entire opening bit. Like literally all of it; Poe should not have been able to pull that off and Hux is not that stupid) but I also still see the Hux I’ve come to love in there. The snark, pulling a gun without hesitation on Kylo for the double tap but being smart enough to hide it when he wakes up, the entire command shuttle bit (except the Force throw – that was unnecessary), and especially that glare of absolute rage and hatred at Kylo once he turns away inside the base on Crait. I’m okay with tired disaster Hux and you can tell he’s already planning a coup. The army seems to still be under his control anyway; he just needs to wait until Kylo finishes digging his own grave and then give him that extra push into it

That said, I’m really glad we got to see Hux bitch slap someone, even if I wish it hadn’t been Finn

Rose was the other highlight of the movie right up until the kiss with Finn. I loved their interactions but the unnecessary heterosexuality was just… no. And then the bit at the end that definitely looked towards a love triangle? *loud gagging noises* no, fuck that shit. Literally everything else with her was absolutely amazing though, especially the Canto Bight stuff

Finn felt… off somehow? I can’t explain why, but he just felt like a weaker character here. Finn was really compelling in tfa and I really wanted more with him and to learn more about him, but I feel like he didn’t do much? The fight with Phasma was a little underwhelming (also she deserved to go out more impressively than that) and most of the other stuff was someone else instigating and him just going along. He seemed… too passive, maybe? I can’t put my finger on what was off, but I didn’t like it and I’m a little let down there. I also really wanted him to be Force-sensitive and really felt he was built up to be. How else was he the only person to ever break FO conditioning?

Poe was also… not how I imagined? I always saw him as the ‘calm pal’ kinda guy but I guess he’s a little more jumped up than I expected. Not a gripe, per se, but just surprising. They also very much did demote him from main character status, which is kinda sad

Admiral Holdo was a fucking boss and I love her. So was Leia for most of it (expect what was with that space scene?). Fuck yeah powerful older women. I need so much more immediately. However, I also wish Leia had gotten more time and it also saddens me that she’s now lost her entire family. Yes, she has the Resistance, and Poe and Rey and Finn, but she has no one from her past. Literally no one. Leia had already lost so much coming into this trilogy and it’s absolutely tragic that all she did was lose more. Leia deserved better, but with Carrie gone, we know Leia won’t be getting it in 9

DJ WAS FANTASTIC. I did not see that coming. And I hope we never see him again because it would ruin the purpose of his character

I liked most of Rey’s arc. I wasn’t sure about the Force bond (I knew about it beforehand) but it ended up working for me and was actually really cool. I still do not ship r*ylo at all (it’s just not for me, ship what you want), but their interactions are intriguing and I can understand why things played out how they did. Rey wanted help for the rebellion and a teacher. She thought that was Luke, but it wasn’t, and then she thought that was Kylo, but it wasn’t. I think she just needs to realize that maybe it’s up to her to be the one to help the rebellion. She’s figured out most of the Force on her own already; I don’t think she needs a teacher. Although the jealous look towards Finn and Rose was just awful. I’m also very concerned for her arc in 9 because I swear if they make it all about trying to save Kylo, I’d be fucking pissed. She’s her own character. She doesn’t exist to help him

I’m also… not sure I buy Rey being a nobody? It’s either a lie or just bad writing to lead up to it. Because in tfa, it’s always ‘who’s the girl?’, ‘what girl?’, etc. I also always got the feeling that Kylo knew who she was, somehow? And why did the Skywalker family lightsaber choose her over Kylo? Why does she have the same amount of power as Kylo if there’s no relation whatsoever? How are her parents buried on Jakku if she saw a ship flying away? I just feel like it was built up to lead elsewhere and then it didn’t. Then again, it is possible Kylo is lying or only thinks he knows, but idk. It’s not that I hate the idea of her being a nobody, but the execution of it was tremendously clumsy

As for Luke… I don’t know. Luke has never been the kind of person to attack first. He is a gentle flower. The entire point of him is his idealism, his hope, his kindness. Even if it was in a moment of instinct, of fear, I don’t think he’d pull a lightsaber first on anyone, especially a family member, no matter how much Dark was in him. Luke saw the Light in Darth Vader, of all people. That it was stressed to be an accident and for Luke to realize he’d fucked up big helped, but I still don’t know if I buy it. I understand bringing flaws to Luke, but I don’t think these were the right flaws to bring. I… don’t know. I haven’t decided how I feel about this yet. And also his death was just odd? What killed him? Was the implication that Force-projecting that far is too hard? Idk, it was really strange and I didn’t get it. I need to think on how I feel about it. Also ‘see you around, kid’ was a pretty dumb last line. Even though I’m pretty sure it was more a promise/threat than anything else. He’s going to be haunting the shit out of everyone

I really liked the crystal foxes. I want 10 of them immediately. However, I have no strong feelings one way or the other on the porgs

THE FUCKING IRON. Jfc I was like ‘omfg that ship looks like an iron, that’s so ridiculous’ AND THEN IT WASN’T A SHIP, IT WAS JUST AN IRON. It was inordinately funny to me. I lost my shit and my friend gave me a dubious look

I wish we’d seen the KOR and I really, really hope we do in 9. Come on, JJ, I believe in you. Let me see the rest of the disaster children in action

Yoda’s cameo was kinda dumb and unnecessary. I know that was supposed to be the moment that changed Luke’s mind but… ehhh. I could’ve done without

The bit at the end with the random kid was also stupid and I wish they’d cut it

Now the biggest thing is… where the fuck are they going with 9? The Resistance is 10 people in the Falcon, the Order is being run by a guy who has absolutely no fucking clue what he’s doing and a second in command that is ready to murder the shit out of him the second he gets the chance. Leia probably won’t be there, so the OT trio is gone. This movie was also weird because it was like… the span of a day and a half? At most? It’s a really strange timeline to go with imo and it’s going to make 9 hard. I’m scared Rey will become an accessory to Kylo’s story (which is most likely going to end up as an even more ham-fisted redemption arc than it would’ve been if it had started in 8). Like no one is in a powerful place. If there were 2 more movies coming, I think it would work, but with only 1? Ehhhh, idk. I have faith in JJ but in some ways he’s been written into a corner, I think. We’ll have to see, I guess

#god this is SO LONG I'm sorry lmao #most are positive thoughts #kylo is fucking amazing #some criticisms though #I'm actually really happy I spoiled myself on some but not all things #there were still surprises but I liked piecing it together #anyways #text #shut up nerd #tlj spoilers

[illusionlock]

Belief and Persuasion- Chapter 5

hey folks! i’ve been working on a little batim prequel fanfic for a while n its finally done! its a little long, so im dividing it in 8 chapters total!

if you want to read more, i’ll be tagging this under ‘bap fic’ on my blog!

summary:

Joey Drew gives an interview about how he managed to build his empire, and focuses on the two things needed most: belief and persuasion, the latter of which is trickier. As he talks about his philosophy, we can see examples of his influence at work.

This chapter: Bendy and Alice talk.

(note: when Bendy “speaks” in this fanfiction, it’s not that he is actually speaking, but rather whistling, and everyone can just understand him, hence the parenthesis. It’s an old silly little trope, but I like it.)

"And when there is a resistance? Do you, ahem, 'get rougher' so to say?" The interviewer made a quotation mark gesture.

"Oh, well then, that would depend on the person. If you're trying to change the mind of someone who is closer to you, then you can go ahead and play as dirty as you want. Don't get me wrong, intimacy gives you that power, they know some friendly bickering and mocking can be constructive and will eventually build character." Joey seemed non preoccupied now, so at ease saying this he stared at the ceiling, serene.

---

Bendy looked around to make sure he wasn't being seen by anyone wandering around alone, then opened the door to the recording studio and carefully closed it behind him. There, in the middle of the chairs, sat Alice, looking lonely, sad, head in her hands.

"(Alice.)" He called, whistling.

"What do you want, Bendy?" She didn't look at him, in fact, turning away from him.

"(Alice, I heard about what's happening with your merchandise, and what Joey has been saying.)" He insisted, walking over to her, pushing around the chairs. "(I'm very sorry, Alice.)"

"Oh, are you? It must be so terrible being Joey's favorite and seeing the newbie be slowly forgotten and pushed aside." She mocked rolling her eyes, still not turning to face him, however.

"(I know, Alice. You don't have to like me, or even get along with me, but I want you to know I want to support you; I'm not your enemy, Alice! I wanna be your friend, and right now, we need you, even if Joey won't admit it.)" Bendy whistled to her.

"Oh? Care to tell me why this 'imperfect' creation that apparently lacks character is so needed?" She asked, still mocking, but with a hint of curiosity now.

"(Joey wants us to act... to actually record us, doing routines, he wants to transition us to making our own movies, no need for drawing anymore, and we could save the studio from bankruptcy!)" Bendy explained, whistling excitedly at the last part.

Alice shifted in her chair, widening her eyes at him. "Do you... even realize what you're saying? Bendy, he's going to get rid of Susie if that happens. He's going to get rid of most of everyone. Why would a man who specializes in making live action movies have the need for a crew who specializes in cartoons? Are you even thinking for yourself or did you just let him plant all those awful ideas of his in that weird shaped head of yours?!"

Bendy seemed taken aback by her sudden lashing out at him, but he pressed on. "(Well, he said that that's where his final part of the plan comes in! They don't need to go to the street! Humans and toons, they can become one, Alice, he's been testing it, with various life forms, if a living being becomes sufficiently coated in ink and embraces a toon and molds their bodies together, they can be one single thing! Everyone can be a cartoon, and we can all be a big happy, undying family!)" He kept selling it, using most of the words he had also had Joey use to convince him.

"You... please tell me you're joking, Bendy, oh my golly. Do you seriously think people are just going to want to give up their lives to become cartoons, just like that? Maybe Joey does, but that's because he's a creepy man with a lot of messed up ideas! He's setting the path for disaster and you don't even see it, because he's completely made you believe there's no way he could hurt his 'precious darling devil'." She finished by making a mocking baby voice.

Bendy was growing gradually and gradually more frustrated, seeing as Alice's negative reception was going. Without thinking, he chirped out: "(Shut up.)"

"Is that all you have to say? Well, I'm not surprised; you're probably still frustrated that Joey cut your 'Sammy privileges'." Alice kept on taunting. "Are you even supposed to be here, anyway? I bet if Joey finds you out he could get pretty mad."

Bendy looked down on the floor, tears catching him by surprise. "(You're right, Alice, I'm not supposed to be here, and I'm still mad and frustrated. But you would be too if Joey tried to separate you from Susie. I know you don't like me, you don't like being the least popular, I wish I could change it, I do. But I can't do anything, I just wanted to come here and ask if you're ready to come rehearse with us, because we really need you, Alice. The studio is our home, and I won't be able to live with myself if the studio closes down because I was neglectful and couldn't open up to new possibilities.)" He chirped sadly.

Alice felt a pang in her heart; she did still not like Bendy that much, and was still sad about the way things were going. Maybe she would never bring herself to normally get along with him. But she recognized, right now, he was just being manipulated, and desperate to save the studio, their first and only home.

She turned to him again, gently going to pet the demon's horns: "Bendy... I'm sorry, maybe I-"

Just at that moment, the door swung open, and Joey barged in, grinning and calling out in sing-song voice: "Oh, what do we have here? A loving couple, enacting their forbidden romance?"

Alice, seeing him say that, gave frustrated cry, and immediately got up, starting to leave.

"Whoa, easy there, I wasn't gonna kick you out! Alice!" Joey tried calling for her, but she made her way past him and stomped out of the room. "Sheesh, women, am I right, Bendy? Did you at least tell her about our plan?"

"(I... I did, but... I wasn't really, planning to, do anything with her.)" Bendy whistled shyly, fiddling with his fingers, a timid blush in his cheeks. "(I don't really like Alice that way, Joey. I'll do it if it's for acting out a cartoon's routine, but...)"

"Oh, spare me the formals, Bendy. I know how it is, guy likes gal but won't admit it, vice versa... That whole melodrama!" Joey kept grinning, dismissing his creation's input.

"(Uhm... I really promise I'm telling the truth, but ok. Should we get on with rehearsing without her?)" Bendy asked.

"Oh, sure you don't." Joey gave him a wink. "As for that, well, yes, she'll come around, but we can still rehearse other bits for now. And if she doesn't, well, we have methods of speeding up the process."

And with that, he exited the recording studio, Bendy after him.

#don't be scared. i am here with you. #bap fic #bendy and the ink machine #batim #bendy the demon #alice angel #joey drew

[fae-fucker]

The One: Chapter 21

America and the other girls goof around all cutesy and even the queen gets to join, the poor useless bitch. 

BUT THEN!!! DUN DUN DUUUN! America gets called away to meet with Clarkson and Maxon.

I swallowed. Every awful thing ran through my head. My family was in danger. The king had found a way to punish me quietly for all the ways I’d wronged him. He’d discovered we’d sneaked out of the palace. Or, perhaps worst of all, someone had figured out my connection to Aspen, and we were both about to pay for it.

You heard it right here folks. The thought of her and Aspen getting punished for breaking the law is WORSE than the thought of her family in danger. 

OUR HEROINE. OUR SELFLESS PROTECTOR OF THE PROPLE. 

I hate her so fucking much and everybody who likes her is a sheep brainwashed by KCass.

Luckily for Americunt, it’s something to do with the Italians, and America thinks that Clarkson found out about her super secret super epic super politically savvy super strategic deal with Nicoletta. 

It’s not. 

It’s even dumber. 

“We have been trying to make an alliance with the Italians for decades, and all of a sudden the royal family is quite interested in having us visit. However”���the king picked up the letter, searching for a specific section—“ah, here. ‘While it would be more than an honor to have Your Majesty and your family grace us with your company, we hope that Lady America will also be able to visit with you. After meeting all the Elite, we can’t imagine anyone following in the queen’s footsteps quite like her.’”

The king raised his eyes back to me. “What have you done?”

Suddenly, a huge burning skeleton burst in through the wall. I screamed and instantly pooped myself and almost fainted. 

“SHE DID NOTHING!” the terrible spooky skeleton screeched and pointed a scary bony finger at me. “SHE’S THE AUTHOR’S PET, AND HER MEAGER EFFORTS ARE REWARDED WITH EXCESSIVE PRAISE! SHE, ALL OF YOU, WILL PAY FOR THIS NONSENSE!” 

Then the skeleton killed all of us. THE END. 

I fucking wish. Anyway, the king continues with his praise. We all know it’s meant to be read as badass, so don’t even fucking argue with me, KCass.

“Then how did a girl of no means, no connections, and no power manage to get this country within the reach of something it’s been trying to achieve for years? How?”

In my heart, I knew that there were factors here that he was oblivious to. But it was Nicoletta who had offered assistance to me, who had asked if she could do anything for a cause she wanted to support. If he’d accused me of something that was actually my fault, his rising voice would have been frightening. As it was, he came across like a child.

In response, I spoke quietly. “You were the ones who assigned us to entertain your foreign guests. I never would have met any of those women otherwise. And she’s the one who wrote, inviting me to come. I didn’t beg for a trip to Italy. Maybe if you were simply more welcoming, you’d have had your alliance with Italy years ago.”

AMERICA IS SUCH A BADASS!!! EVERYONE KNEEL IN FRONT OF HER GREATNESS AND KISS HER FEET TO SHOW YOUR SUBMISSION!! 

Seriously though, this is fucking dumb. I can’t even be assed to take it apart because we already know this is sloppily put together “politics” constructed in such a way that America’s bare minimum and idiotic stumbling are seen as clever and calculating. What I will complain about is the fact that Clarkson says that they “need” the Italians because they’ll open a lot of doors for Illéa. 

Again, you don’t need FUCKING FRANCE, but Italy is apparently super powerful now? You know there’s a reason people are scared that France will leave the EU, right? Does KCass have relatives in Italy or some shit? What is this nonsense? 

Anyway, apparently they can’t kick America out now because it’ll upset the Italians, so the king wants to bring all the girls to Italy so they can get to know them better and forget all about the totes badass rebel sympathizer America. 

Because apparently, you can just do that during a war, idk. I feel like KCass forgets the whole war thing until it’s needed for a dramatic line.

The king looked at Maxon, venom in his eyes. “Are you declaring your choice right now then? Is the Selection over?”

My pulse stopped altogether.

“No,” Maxon answered, as if the very thought was ridiculous.

BUT WHY?!?!?!? WHY DOESN’T HE JUST END IT?! WHAT IS KEEPING HIM FROM CHOOSING AMERICA RIGHT NOW?!?!?!

I’m so tired.

The king says America has to prove herself trustworthy before Maxon can choose her, which goes against literally THE WHOLE ENTIRE SETUP THAT RELIES ON CLARKSON HAVING ZERO CONTROL OVER MAXON’S CHOICE.

KCASS, DID YOU EVEN THINK ONCE WHILE WRITING THIS? 

Anyway, Clarkson wants America to read some shitty propaganda to tell the castes to calm their shit, which isn’t the dumbest idea he’s had, but don’t you think IT’S A BIT TOO FUCKING LATE TO START PULLING THIS NOW, WHEN THE REBELLION’S ALREADY HAPPENING AND PEOPLE ARE GETTING MURDERED?!

WHY DIDN’T YOU THINK OF DOING THIS FROM THE START?!

I’m so tired.

“The lower castes tend to get unruly from time to time—it’s natural. But we have to subdue the anger and squash the ideas of usurping power quickly, before they unite and undo our great nation.”

“BEFORE”?!?!?!?! “BEFORE”??!?!?!??!?!??!

IT’S ALREADY HAPPENING.

Maxon stared at his father, still not fully comprehending his words.

I’m glad Maxon’s still reliably stupid. 

The king was planning to divide and conquer: make the castes absurdly grateful for what they had—even if they were being treated like they didn’t matter—and tell them not to associate with those outside of their castes, for they certainly wouldn’t understand the plight of anyone outside their own.

I love how this is framed as some sinister epic final attack when it’s like Dictatorship 101. 

This is so sad and pathetic. So obviously written by a white middle class American woman who has no fucking clue about how politics or dictatorships work and clearly she didn’t even bother looking it up. Who needs that when you have BOYS.

“This is propaganda,” I spat, remembering the word from Dad’s tattered history book.

Baby’s first Politics. 

This is laughable.

They argue about ... fucking basic propaganda tactics like it’s some epic political stategy and I’m just kind of tickled. The king spouts some evil dictator crap, that’s still like super duper basic and idk supposed to make us dislike him, and America has a huff and puff about how she refuses to read the stuff.

Clarkson finally does something mildly competent and actually clever and uses America’s only weakness, BOYS, against her. He says that if she doesn’t do it, it proves that she doesn’t love Maxon.

“Do you? Do you love him at all?”

This wasn’t how I was going to say it. Not at the end of an ultimatum, not for business.

The king tilted his head. “How sad, Maxon. She needs to think about it.”

Do not cry. Do not cry.

I’m cackling, this is hilarious and pathetic at the same time. Though I hate that this book is successful and that idiots adore it and praise it as clever and feminist.

“I’ll give you some time to find out where you stand. If you won’t do this, then rules be damned, I’ll be kicking you out by Christmas Day. What a special gift that will be for your parents.”

“Rules be damned” YOU’RE KING! YOU MAKE THE RULES!! AREN’T YOU ALREADY BREAKING THE RULES BY NOT ALLOWING MAXON TO CHOOSE?!

Uuuuuugh.

She angsts herself out of the room but Maxon doesn’t let her off that easily. He catches her and makes it aaaaalll about himself again.

“What the hell was that?” he demanded.

“He’s insane!” I was on the verge of tears, but I held them in. If the king came out and saw me that way, I’d never live it down.

Maxon shook his head. “Not him. You. Why didn’t you agree to do it?”

I looked at him, gob-smacked. “It’s a trick, Maxon. Everything he’s doing is a trick.”

“If you had said yes, I would have ended this now.”

Incredulous, I fired back. “Two seconds before, you had the chance to end it and didn’t. How is this my fault?”

“Because,” he answered, his whole demeanor urgent, “you are denying me your love. It’s the only thing I’ve wanted in this entire competition, and you still hold back. I keep waiting for you to say it, and you won’t. If you couldn’t say it out loud in front of him, fine. But if you had simply agreed, that would have been good enough for me.”

“And why would I when, for as far as we’ve come, he could still push me out? While I’m humiliated over and over again, and you stand by? That’s not love, Maxon. You don’t even know what love is.”

BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEE?!?!?!?

NO WHAT ABOUT MEEEE!!!!!

BUT MEEEEEE!!

NO NO MEEEEEEEE!!!

Can a Selection fan just ... contact me and explain to me why they like these selfish, cruel, self-absorbed, entitled, petty, small-minded characters? And think of them as good people? Are we really that easily manipulated as a species? Or are the tweens reading this really this fucking stupid?

Let’s just hope they grow out of this bullshit.

I stormed away. What was I still doing here? I kept torturing myself for someone who had no idea what it meant to be faithful to one person. And he never would, because his whole concept of romance revolved around the Selection. He wouldn’t ever understand.

Did I just... read that with my own eyes. 

Does America have some serious brain damage?

HE LITERALLY JUST SAID THAT HE’S ALWAYS WANTED ONLY YOU, AND YOU’RE THE ONE WHO KEPT CHEATING ON HIM WITH ASPEN!!

HOLY SHIT.

This book somehow keeps getting dumber and dumber. It’d be almost impressive if it didn’t cause me immense psychological pain.

She tries to run away again but he grabs her and forcefully holds her there. Romance. 

He sighed. “I know that you spent years pouring yourself into another person who you thought was going to love you forever; and when he was faced with the realities of the world, he abandoned you.” I froze, taking in his words. “I’m not him, America. I have no intentions of giving up on you.”

I shook my head. “You can’t see it, Maxon. He might have let me down, but at least I knew him. After all this time, I still feel like there’s a gap between us. The Selection has forced you to hand over your affection in slices. I’ll never really have all of you. None of us will.”

When I shrugged myself free this time, he didn’t fight me.

Fuck this book. 

#eff reads: the one #book rants #i'm so tired

[yoursummerfrost]

sidogosidhgjkv hi it’s OFC day for @omgcpwomenfest so I wanted to introduce everyone to Shani, a character I created for the fic I’m publishing this weekend but will probably appear in future stories too! Have some random headcanons that are sort of AU-flexible and don’t always apply (notably, in future stories Shani might be poly but in her original story she’s monogamous).

Feel free to send me asks or message me about Shani! I love her so much! Going under the cut bc it got long af.

Shanelle “Shani” Grady-Troy

Shani is a Black woman who grew up in Long Island and loves sports

Her favorite is baseball because she used to play it with her dad

She played softball for a while but she was pretty solidly mediocre and gave it up

She has a lot of hangups about achievement and struggles to find something she enjoys worthwhile if she isn’t fantastic at it

Softball was never going to get her a college scholarship but her grades could so she put everything she had into those

She also likes hockey, but she prefers women’s hockey to men’s and she chirps Jeff and Kent about it constantly

As for men’s teams, though, she likes the Mets and the Islanders the most, and psuedo-begrudgingly cheers for whatever team Jeff is playing for at the time

She and Kent bond over their love for the Mets because Kent grew up in Brooklyn. One time Jeff mentions how A-rod seems pretty chill and he nearly doesn’t survive the combined assault

As the name implies, she’s married to Kent’s mysterious teammate, Jeff Troy

They met in like 2005 in New York, when Troy still played for the Rangers

But they didn’t get married until 2010

Shani rejected Troy’s first proposal because she was still in school 

If you asked her what she thinks about fighting in the NHL she’d condemn it loudly and whole-heartedly 

But she’s secretly kinda into it

She shares exactly one (1) secret with Eric R. Bittle more on their relationship later and it’s this and only bc he admits he’s into it first

She likes fussing over Jeff when he comes home with bruises and shit

It makes her feel like the heroine in a superhero movie 

Shani is a Nurse Practitioner who works in the ER 

She’s a badass and she sees a counselor on a semi-regular basis because the ER is rough and it takes its toll whether you’re a badass or not

She’s unapologetic about the fact she has a therapist

She’s also unapologetically bisexual and it took her a long time to get there but she will Take No Shit about it now

When things started getting serious with Jeff some of her queer friends gave her a hard time

She felt like she was betraying her queerness by dating a dude and betraying her Blackness by dating a white dude

But she had other friends in the community who were more supportive and she realized that she wasn’t the one erasing herself

She ends up staying with Jeff and most of her friends apologized for their bierasure when she stood up for herself

Jeff identifies as straight but is definitely the Overly Invested Ally stereotype and usually has a Bi Awakening at some point, but until then this conversation happens a lot:

Shani: the Straights are at it again

Jeff: but babe I’m straight

Shani: I know and I love you anyway

Shani being openly bisexual is one of the reasons Jeff (and her, by extension) is the first person Kent comes out to in Vegas

Shani likes plans

Jeff has zero plans. He jokes that his wife has enough plans for the both of them. Shani is unironically pleased by this truth

Shani has plans for situations in the ER, for every vacation their family will ever take, for emergencies with their children

She also has a plan for when her fiance’s favorite rookie shows up at their door suicidal at 3 am because God forbid they’re unprepared for that one again

Shani will always love plans but she’s learning to be a little more flexible

In universes where they’re poly she’s in charge of scheduling and making sure everyone has comfy boundaries etc

Her relationship with Kent fluctuates based on the circumstances but she’s always super protective of him and platonically affectionate

They have the cutest cheek kisses and cuddle sessions

In ‘verses where Jeff and Kent are dating, Shani and Kent still don’t have a sexual relationship it’s just not Them

They probably try it once like

They’ll be snuggling on the couch and a little tipsy from some wine with dinner and just look at each other. And they lean in and kiss, and when they pull away they just look at each other and go “Nahh” and go back to chirping Jeff for his terrible fashion sense

She’s very aware of the fact that her husband is Gone on her and has been since they met, and she’s super secure in their relationship

Jeff is worried when he starts getting closer to Kent at first and he always asks Shani if she’s okay with stuff

Jeff: Um. Hi babe. Would it be okay if I cuddled with Kent sometimes? He just seems so lonely sometimes and–

Shani: Kent Parson is a Sad Boy who deserves to be swaddled with affection at literally all times and I would be disappointed if you didn’t want to cuddle him.

Jeff: ….so yes?

Shani: Yes thank you for asking

She worries about Kent sometimes though especially if Jeff hasn’t had his Bisexual Awakening yet

Kent is definitely lowkey crushing on Jeff and she doesn’t want Kent to get hurt

It can get a little manipulative when Kent’s mental illnesses aren’t being well controlled and Shani struggles with being sensitive to it without letting her and Jeff be taken advantage of

Shani doesn’t like Bitty at first

She has a fundamental mistrust of White Southern Boys who are too polite and nice all the time

Kent: Eric Bittle is a ray of sunshine who’s never done anything wrong in his entire life

Shani: Seems Fake But Okay

It’s not that she doesn’t think Bitty’s a good person it’s just that she likes people who say what they mean and Bitty Does Not Do That

She can’t tell when he’s being genuine because everything is hidden behind 72.5 layers of passive-aggression and pettiness and southern charm

It’s unsettling just say how you feel god dammit

Jeff kindly tries to remind her that Kent Parson only says what he means an approximate 45.32% of the time

she ignores him entirely 

Also she can tell Kent is 3000% in love with Bitty and if he breaks Kent’s heart Shani will destroy him

She doesn’t really come around until she realizes how genuinely happy Bitty makes Kent and that he’s in this for the long haul like Kent is

They’re never best friends but they can get along just fine

 Shani doesn’t like Jack either but she kind of does

Jack is like the opposite of Bitty in that Shani likes him as a person but has a hard time forgiving what he did to Kent

Jeff kindly tries to remind her that Kent was also a certifiable asshole to Jack on multiple occasions

she ignores him entirely

She has a devastating sense of humor that basically just involves dragging everyone she loves at all times

She’s also super nosy and can and will find out everything about your life

She doesn’t gossip about Important things though

She will absolutely tell the story about the time Kent burned a pot of spaghetti and set off their fire alarm at literally every opportunity but she will take his sexuality to her fucking grave

Has no problems spending Jeff’s money and letting him spoil her but also would never give up her career

It’s not like she thinks something would happen between them but she’s also not stupid and she knows no one thinks their marriage will end in a nasty divorce or–

she doesn’t like to think about the other terrible way marriages can end but she’s prepared for it, is the thing

So she wants to have a career she can support herself and the kids with if she needs to

She also genuinely likes being a nurse even if it runs her into the ground

This is like the one thing she and Bitty bond over

How do you be your own person and feel successful when your partner is literally a millionaire?

Speaking of kids Shani and Jeff have two children and she loves them endlessly

She suffered from a pretty awful bout of postpartum depression after the birth of their first child and went to therapy (outside of her normal counseling) for it

She still carries a lot of shame for that even though she’s trying to forgive herself and accept that it wasn’t her fault

When she was pregnant with her second kid she was terrified she’d go through it again

She almost didn’t want to conceive again and they talked about adoption instead but in the end she decided to get pregnant

She wasn’t clinically depressed after the second pregnancy but didn’t feel great, either

She’s iffy on having a third kid anyway but she’ll definitely adopt this time if they do

She just doesn’t like being pregnant or the aftermath of pregnancy 

She’d rather skip forward to the blowing raspberries on tummies and changing diapers parts 

This got like really long lmao and I still feel like I said way less than I meant to?? Seriously come chat w me about her if you want she’s great. 

#can't learn to leave #omgcpwomenfest #suicidal mention #original character #original female character #original poc character #depression mention #postpartum depression mention #Shani Grady-Troy #I wrote a ficlet

[kashuan]

In which I finally write a long ass post about all my grievances with the never ending shenanigans I see in the Iliad tag because I can’t take it anymore and needed to get it out tbh

Things y’all really need to stop doing, in no particular order: • Treating Clytemnestra like a Bad Bitch Feminist Icon #goals because she killed a character you don’t like. Know what she also was? Pretty hypocritical. Half her motive for killing Agamemnon is the mistreatment of their daughter, but guess what, Clytemnestra then goes on to treat 2/3 of her remaining children pretty much like shit. I suppose you could consider Electra to be an unreliable narrator in terms of her relating how coldly she was treated at home, but the facts don’t lie in that Cly let her new hubby Aegisthus pass Electra off to be married to some peasant so that she and her children would die without any power and wouldn’t be able to take revenge. It’s pretty indisputable though that her treatment of her son Orestes was flat out terrible. As a child, Orestes has to go into exile, as it’s implied Aegisthus would have had him killed otherwise. Cly just Lets This Happen. When Orestes returns to murder both her and Aegisthus as instructed by Apollo, Clytemnestra entreats him with a set of pretty flimsy excuses. Here’s a part from The Libation Bearers:

CLYTAEMESTRA Have you no regard for a parent's curse, my son?

ORESTES You brought me to birth and yet you cast me out to misery.

CLYTAEMESTRA No, surely I did not cast you out in sending you to the house of an ally.

ORESTES I was sold in disgrace, though I was born of a free father. CLYTAEMESTRA Then where is the price I got for you? ORESTES I am ashamed to reproach you with that outright.

Furthermore, she attempts to manipulate Orestes by entreating him to spare her because she is his mother, the one who nursed him, yet we know that this wasn’t actually done by her, and since a young age she has been completely absent in his life otherwise. When Orestes finally does kill her, this girl cannot even let it go at that but essentially makes sure he’s haunted by demons for the rest of his life. Talk about #petty, not even Agamemnon took it that far. So this character who's set up as like Badass Mama Bear is actually….not. Post Iphigenia at Aulis Clytemnestra is actually pretty self-serving, but not in the sort of way that should be admired. I think Clytemnestra is a great flawed character. Please no more ‘my perfect queen deserved better’ posts. I’m beggin’ ya. Read more than a summary of like 1/4th of her history and then let’s talk. • So I’m gonna follow this up with my long stewing Agamemnon Apologist rant (you: yikes me: Buckle Up). I’d like to begin this by saying we can all definitely agree that this man is a garbageboy stinkman. No arguing that. I love a good ‘Agamemnon is an asshole’ joke as much as the next guy. HOWEVER, when, when will I be free from posts that act like this character is honestly so completely one dimensional, that jokes about it comprise literally 98% of the tag. Where are the actually interesting meta posts that consider things about him beyond JUST being a dumpster of a man. For example, we know he was at least a half-decent bro. In book 4 of the Iliad, Menelaus basically scrapes his knee and Agamemnon essentially calls a T.O. on the entire war because HIS BROTHER, OK!!! Like yeah, he also includes a hilariously selfish line in that part that Menelaus can’t bite it because then he will be disgraced when he goes home, but the point stands. Further evidence of these having a tight relationship can be found in the Iphigenia at Aulis play. After the two of them have had a savage as hell argument about whether or not to sacrifice Iphigenia, taking some serious pot shots at each other, they have this exchange

MENELAUS I’ve changed, and I’ve changed because I love you, brother. I’ve changed because of my love for my mother’s son.  It’s a natural thing for men with decent hearts to do the decent thing. AGAMEMNON I praise you, Menelaus for these unexpected words, proper words, words truly worthy of you.  Brothers fight because of lust and because of greed in their inheritance. I hate such relationships; they bring bitter pain to all.

 I think Agamemnon’s relationship with Menelaus is actually one of the more interesting ones among the cast because he is both in a way protective yet also very controlling of his brother. Here and Here are a couple of fantastic essays on their dynamic and the way it differs from source to source. While on the subject of the play Iphigenia at Aulis and my favorite problematic fav getting the short end of the stick from fandom, can I just say that the majority of retellings, posts, and so on about this particular event ARE TERRIBLE? I’m so tired of seeing it depicted as though Agamemnon just killed his daughter like some afterthought, possibly while twirling his mustache like a cartoon villain. There is so, SO much more nuance to that scene and it kills the man when I see how no one ever discusses it in favor of just saying lol Agamemnon’s a dick, so anyway. Iphigenia herself is actually one of the best sources we have for the fact Agamemnon probably had more than a grand total of zero good traits. The relationship between the two is obviously a very close one and on the whole we get the sense that, aside from the whole killing his daughter thing (ya) he was actually a good dad. Like an inverse Clytemnestra :,). The scene where Iphigenia first speaks with Agamemnon is particularly telling of what was probably their normal relationship. IPHIGENIA What’s wrong, daddy?  You say you’re happy to see me but your face looks worried! AGAMEMNON A king, darling, a General is always worried. IPHIGENIA Make your worries go away, daddy. From now on, think only of me. AGAMEMNON Yes, my darling. I shall think of nothing else but you from now on IPHIGENIA Well then, get rid of this ugly frown from the face that I love so much! AGAMEMNON There! Oh, what a joy it is to see you, Iphigeneia! IPHIGENIA But… but look at you, father! Full of joy and yet tears flow from your eyes…AGAMEMNON Yes, dear… because our separation will be a long one.

Is he still a completly awful man for having sacrificed her? Yes. Completely. But here’s a few factors that play into this decision that I never see anyone, ever, mention: -It is Agamemnon’s intention to send Iphigenia away, to save herself, at the last minute, but Menelaus intercepts the letter meant to warn her of her fate. -Charismatic Odysseus has a good deal of control over the soldiers at this point and was probably looking to further increase his popularity among them (a consistent theme-- see: when he’s ready to shank his bff Diomedes just to be the only one to bring home a trophy from Troy instead of both of them). One can imply that if Agamemnon didn’t go through it, he would have done it himself -- and Agamemnon knew that (he mentions as much). -Gods are terrifying, my dudes. Treating it as though he could have just said ‘naw’ to Artemis’ order for Iphigenia’s death and gone home expresses a pretty fundamental lack of understanding how the Greeks feared the gods and just what the stakes likely already were by that point. Artemis was already pissed that he killed one of her sacred deer so it wasn’t as though she was just like ‘you can either sacrifice your daughter or go home unscathed’. I’ve only seen one other retelling accurately capture what very likely would have happened if Agamemnon didn’t go through with it: Artemis likely would have retaliated at the disrespect against the men and probably his family. Furthermore, the soldiers had already been stranded at Aulis for months on end-- a mutiny was exceedingly likely if they found out what was going on, one in which where they probably would have harmed not only him but also Clytemnestra and baby Orestes who came with Iphigenia. These two facts are more conjecture, but it’s a pretty plausible estimate and I’ve seen several scholarly essays arrive at the same conclusion.  If you’d actually like to see a depiction of Agamemnon that is both incredibly sympathetic yet does not shy away either from showing how terrible what he did was, please watch the 1977 Iphigenia movie. One of my favorite movies in general. Honestly I feel I could make a giant essay out of My Feelings on this particular subject alone so I’ll wrap it now because I have a lot of other stuff I want to get to, though I’ll include one final pet peeve: the amount of people who call Agamemnon trash because he was Sexist. You know who else was a Meninist? Every single goddamn man in ancient Greece. Okay, I’ll give a pass to characters like Patroclus and Hector when it comes to the women front because all we see is them being pretty decent. But like. Otherwise??? Sure, just because everyone is that way doesn’t make it any less shitty-- I’m not arguing that. But it’s also like reading a novel focused on an entire group of mobsters, but calling out only one of them as Problematic for being a criminal. Like, my dudes...  TL;DR: Agamemnon is a dick jokes are funny and completely deserved but throw in a few posts here and there that actually suggest you might have read more than just Book 1 of the Iliad and nothing else. Character depth is your friend. • That said, for the love of god, stop writing Menelaus like he’s just Agamemnon 2.0. A lot of adaptions do this because they don’t seem to know what to do with his character (I’m lookin’ @ u most of all Troy though he suffers some form of this in almost all film adaptions...) Which is a shame because Menelaus as a character is a lot more (and better) than that. From what we do know, Menelaus was actually (relatively speaking) a pretty chill guy and one of the least problematic out of these assholes (y’know, minus that scene I mentioned above with Iphigenia, but hey...at least he admits he fucked up?). We know that Helen voluntarily chose him to be her husband. We know that Helen wanted to return home to him by the time the Iliad takes place. We know they got back together after the war and more or less lived happily ever after. So why do I keep seein’ all these posts about Helen hating him or about him being another warmonger like Agamemnon. Menelaus was a Decent Dude. Leave him alone :,| • Speaking of Helen, how many times am I going to read “feminist” retellings where she either is totally indifferent to or even wanted the war to happen, where she enjoys watching men die, where she ~reclaims~ her demigoddess power and is A Figure To Be Feared. What Helen is this??? Because in the Iliad, Helen is remorseful af about all the people she’s indirectly responsible for the deaths of. There are more ways to build up and strengthen female characters than to make them just like the men they despise. Just. Saying. I get that people want to free her from the damsel in distress role she’s essentially relegated to, me too, but that is NOT the way to do it. Girl can be strong willed but still have a great amount of empathy. As with essentially every other bullet point above, please just give these characters more than one dimension. • Also, how many times am I gonna have to read about The One Fellow Female (Helen or Clytemnestra usually) who believes Cassandra’s prophecies in order to emphasize like, girl power, or that the author feels sorry for Cass and want to project that onto some other character or something. Dude, she was cursed not to be believed. PERIOD. BY ANYONE. There was no clause in the curse for like “except someone who really thinks you’re swell”. It’s tragic because there are no exceptions. No one believes her. NO ONE. THE END. • Achilles was bi. Bi af (by modern standards, of course). See: Iphigenia, Deidamia, Briseis, Polyxena, Penthesilea… I totally get this movement of wanting to call Achilles gay because for so long he and Patroclus have gotten the ‘just guys bein’ dudes’ treatment from scholars. I think it’s absolutely fantastic that potential element of his character is more widely recognized and accepted now. However, I can’t help but get these really uncomfy biphobia feels when I read all the posts about how gay he is, as if liking women makes his relationship with Patroclus less legitimate. That was one thing about TSOA which also really disappointed me-- it had to pull that yaoi fanfic trope of ‘girls are so icky and gross’ in order to further sell how convinced you should be of the same sex relationship. It’s just, Bad And Not Good. Finally, I feel like y’all are so busy hating Agamemnon and shoving off every single bad character trait into existence onto him, that Achilles is always ultimately depicted as this #relatable teen who did nothing wrong except get a little too upset when his bf died. May I remind you of just a few things Achilles also did: -Indirectly got a lot of men killed by refusing to fight during his quarrel with Agamemnon -Had 12 innocent children killed when Patroclus died -Basically everything involving Troilus. From wikipedia: [Achilles] is struck by the beauty of both [Polyxena and Troilus] and is filled with lust. It is the fleeing Troilus whom swift-footed Achilles catches, dragging him by the hair from his horse. The young prince refuses to yield to Achilles' sexual attentions and somehow escapes, taking refuge in the nearby temple. But the warrior follows him in, and beheads him at the altar before help can arrive. The murderer then mutilates the boy's body. Some pottery shows Achilles, already having killed Troilus, using his victim's severed head as a weapon as Hector and his companions arrive too late to save him. The mourning of the Trojans at Troilus' death is great. -Just straight up fucking murders a guy for making fun of him after he just murdered someone else. "Achilles, who fell in love with the Amazon [Penthesilea] after her death, slew Thersites for jeering at him" I’m sure there’s more receipts like this. So like. Can we throw in a couple posts now and then among the Agamemnon ones about Achilles, who was Problematic for far more reasons than just sulking in his tent :,) ...Okay. I think that’s it. FOR NOW. I guess I’ll end this by saying half of this is just my own opinion and I recognize that people can interpret and retell these stories and characters however they want to. It’s when it becomes so consistent however that people treat it like it is The One True Canon when it’s actually not that my jimmies get a bit rustled. [/END RANT]

#the iliad