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#tsoa analysis
So I just finished reading The Song of Achilles, and forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but . . .
About two thirds of the way in, Thetis tells the boys that there is a new prophecy, that "the best of Myrmidons will die before two more years have passed." And at first they're afraid that it's Achilles, but then Thetis tells them that he will be alive when it happens
The first time I read this, I didn't understand. It was only when I read that passage again, after knowing what happens, that I realized the prophecy was about Patroclus
The book even acknowledges it later on, when Briseis is saying goodbye to him . . . "'Best of men. Best of Myrmidons.' She places her fingers to my lips, stopping my objection. 'It is truth,' she says. 'Let it stand for once.'"
In the first half of the book, a lot of Patroclus's pov is dedicated to describing how beautiful and amazing Achilles is. And when you see how ordinary and pathetic Patroclus makes himself look in comparison, you almost start to wonder why Achilles loves him in the first place
But Patroclus was the best of all of them, even better than Achilles. No one else had his kindness, his tenderness, his unwavering care for others
And Achilles knew this. Further on, Briseis says that Patroclus was worth ten of him, and Achilles doesn't disagree
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if there's one good thing to come of constantly seeing antis and hate in the tsoa tags, it's that i've realized patroclus is a really unreliable narrator (which i knew already, i just finally figured out how to put it into words).
so when i search the tsoa tags, there's all these anti tsoa posts about how horrible and evil it is that miller depicted the two of them as 'soft uwu gay boys' (their words, not mine. i've seen this phrase in almost every hate post about the book), and like, that's fine, that's just one interpretation of their relationship (it's really not, actually. it's homophobia and a bit of sexism), but also, that's the whole point of the book.
we already know they were cutthroat soldiers that fought in a war. that was never up for debate. the whole point of tsoa is to show another perspective of their story, the perspective that shows that these soldiers were capable of loving and being loved. since this is what miller wanted to portray, obviously she showed them as softer and gentler than in the iliad. besides, if she had just gone off of the iliad exactly, it would just be another translation, not a retelling.
i saw a post a while ago that said tsoa is actually patroclus telling his side of achilles' story to thetis at the end so she would let him finally be at rest, and i really liked that (if i ever find the post, i'll link it [i found this one, but i don't think it's the one i'm thinking of]). but thetis knew all about how important they were to the war. what she didn't know was how her son could care, and create, and love, so that's the part of his story patroclus focused on, so, of course, he left stuff out and downplayed the violence and fighting.
and then, since it is in patroclus' perspective, he was eternally aware of his physical inferiority to achilles, and, again, that's not the story he wanted to tell. based on his narrations, he was deeply self-conscious, to the point where he felt that doing anything for himself felt like he was stealing or doing something wrong, and the only thing he was ever sure of was achilles' love for him, and even that took years to finally cement within him. he was never going to focus on his own achievements because he didn't think he had any. he was never going to focus on the things he did that achilles could also do since there was no point as achilles was always better than him.
and it wasn't out of jealousy. he literally said why should he be ashamed when achilles was better than everybody? agamemnon was the one that couldn't accept that
but, anyways, my point is that patroclus was never going to tell the whole story, and, really, he went through all of this for y'all to call him a 'soft uwu gay boy'? as if one the most respectful and healthy gay relationships i've ever read is too soft? because men aren't allowed to be soft? fuck you
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juupiterfig · 2 months
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Analysis: The perpetuation of trauma
**The Song of Achilles book spoilers + mentions of sexual assault**
As I was reading about how Achilles was essentially coerced into sleeping with Deidameia, I thought about how it was his own mother, Thetis, who had arranged it.
Sure, Thetis had always been severe and cold throughout The Song of Achilles, but looking at it through the lens of Thetis herself having been a victim of sexual assault, her inflicting this upon her son brings a different layer of complexity and tragedy to the act.
It makes me wonder about how much of this act was one that was chosen out of cruel pragmatism (her demigod son needing an heir) versus an unconscious perpetuation of the trauma she herself had experienced (forced by Peleus to conceive).
Maybe both.
It's just tragic when you think about how much distaste Thetis held for mankind. It makes me wonder how much of it was the disdain of a goddess toward mere mortals, and how much of it was disgust at what a human had done to her, taken from her.
Yet she was the one to make Achilles suffer the same fate.
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Tumblr media Tumblr media
A long time ago... ( and yes, i have an alarm set on for that )
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aetherin21 · 1 year
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And with kindness leads to greatness
Patroclus is a kind man, written in between his words of doubt and low self esteem. The way he treats women he encounters with care and empathy speaks volumes then the words he utters.
His mother, everly so writtenly as meek and homely seemed to shine in his eyes as the sandy beaches of his home. As though, supposedly to dispise her from his father's lament. He remembers her simpleness like the warmth of the fading sky. Drifting and disappearing. But as the strings of her lyre, she is there only existing.
When Deidameia got pregnant with Achilles and learned that he will never ever love her, she was angry, disappointed and thrown away. She was promised of the boy and so she gave. And out of sheer destruction of a heart break, she agonizingly seeked comfort from Patroclus and demanded to lay with her so she could even by a small margin feel the soul of Achilles mending her broken heart. Cause as Patroclus quoted he is half of Achilles soul.
She's a victim in all of this as much as she tries to stand between the two lovers. And Patroclus understands this. Bedding her too but out of sympathy and kindness that she wanted to feel.
He was so human that when Briseis was turned into a prize of war, he urged his lover to take her and save her from being soiled by Agamemnon. He befriended her, clothed her, and taught her the way of the greeks. And as more prizes come, if by means possible, he wished for Achilles to take them from the humiliation to come.
In return for his selflessness, he was loved by the girl. Even offering him a child she could bare, knowing full well that she wont be the apple of his eye. But Patroclus could not dirty her like that. He knew she deserved better.
Thetis, on the other hand, had loathed him since the beginning. Yet she unknowingly seeked comfort from his memories of her lost child. Never to truly knowing the boy she had given birth to but only from the words of his lover. Patroclus was at her mercy, begging to reunite with his lover and yet instead of hating her even until death, he sang her Achilles' song.
And with the last hymns of his memory, she obliged writing his name beside her child's. The only motherly thing she had ever done.
Patroclus was the best of the Myrmidons for his sheer kindness alone. The cowardice that was bestowed by his true father was a lie but the name 'Patroclus' that meant glory of the father was true. Chiron is proud of his child. He honored him, using the knowledge he had bestowed and saved dozens of lives of hardened greek soldiers. Memorizing their names and each of their stories like his father did. Although, unlike them, he did not fight with swords and spears, he fought with his empathy in hand.
And the boy he had accidentally killed as a prince? It was not an act of cowardice of his confession, it was atonement. Acceptance of what he had done. Unlike those other kings and princes, he took the punishment as one should supposed to.
And that is why Achilles loved him. And that's why Achilles died when he did. Because he is the mortal half of his supposed to be godhood.
He is his other half, as the poet say.
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Just finished rereading the iliad, so thinking about Shauna and Jackie and Achilles and Patroklos, because the similarities are there.
The fight scene where Jackie (Patroklos) tells Shauna (Achilles) to get out because she can’t be around her at the moment, is, to me, similar to the scene where Patroklos is telling Achilles to go out and fight the Trojans.
And then Shauna (Achilles) tells her no, she won’t go out and if Jackie doesn’t feel like she can be around her that sounds like her problem, so maybe she should go out. Similar to Achilles not going out to fight the Trojans and save the Greeks, but instead agreeing to let Patroklos go out with his armor to help them.
Agreeing to go out is what causes both Jackie and Patroklos to die.
Before Jackie dies she has a dream (vision? whatever that was) where Shauna goes out to get her and bring her back inside, apologizing and giving her food. Similar to how Patroklos, before he died, killed many Trojans and believed he might be saving the Greeks after all.
Then it snows, and Jackie freezes to death outside (different to how Patroklos died, killed by Hector) and Shauna realizes what happened when she saw the snow through the window, and she runs outside to find Jackie’s corpse buried under the snow.
My friend is dead, Patroclus, my dearest friend of all. I loved him, And I killed him.
Now where the parallels get good.
Shauna, like Achilles, keeps Jackie/Patroklos’ corpse and visits it daily, talks to it, even does her makeup once. Achilles kept Patroklos’ corpse on their tent, and it wasn’t until Patroklos’ spirit came to him during a dream to tell him to give him a funeral, since otherwise he couldn’t enter the underworld, than Achilles started his funeral. Similar to how Shauna kept Jackie’s body until Tai said they had to get rid of her corpse and than what Shauna was doing wasn’t healthy.
They cremate Jackie, just like they cremated Patroklos.
Do not lay my bones apart from yours, but let them lie together
That’s what Patroklos spirit tells Achilles during that dream, which reminds me of “I don’t even know where you end and I begin”.
When he rejoins the battle, Patroclus does so as Achilles' surrogate, literally impersonating him by wearing his armor, and he represents Achilles' double as well as his opposite.
-Sheila Murnaghan, introduction of the Iliad, Stanley Lombardo’s version (1997)
In the most extreme moments of his grief for his most beloved person, Achilles presents Patroclus not as his child, parent, or wife, but as himself. The ultimate form of love is to see no difference between the self and the beloved. Patroclus' journey into battle wearing the armor of Achilles transforms him into his friend, in the eyes of the Trojans. He becomes Achilles also, tragically, in his violent death before the walls of Troy, killed by Trojans through the help of Apollo, just as Achilles soon will be. Once Patroclus is dead, Achilles tries to transform himself into his dead friend, by rolling in the dust and, like a dead man, abstaining from food, sleep, or sex. He anticipates joining Patroclus again, and becoming indistinguishable from him in death, when their bones are together in one jar."
-Emily Wilson, introduction of her version of the Iliad (2023)
Meanwhile Shauna (and the other girls, but she did it first) eats Jackie, Achilles doesn’t do that with Patroklos, but he does say this line
I wish my stomach would let me / Cut off your flesh in strips and eat it raw / For what you've done to me.
He says that to Hector, Patroklos’ killer, before killing him in revenge. Since Jackie didn’t have a killer (and if she did, it was Shauna, even if she chose to go out), Shauna has no one to kill in revenge, no one to wish to eat for the intense grief, so she turns to Jackie.
Also Jackie was always meant to die, she was doomed by the narrative, she died because she was meant for life outside the woods, for a normal life, the life they had before, she wasn’t meant for a cannibalistic cult, that’s kind of what Jackie’s death represents, she was a symbol of societal norms and hierarchies (being this popular prom queen and Shauna talking about how back home they were probably “missing their perfect little princess” and how Jackie tells her than she’s such a cliché for thinking of her and their relationship like that), whatever, but also Patroklos. He’s constantly described as gentle, kind. Which is weird to see given than he has one of the highest body counts in the book (if not the highest). Also people who are always described by those adjectives, kind, gentle, sweet people don’t usually belong in a war. Smh.
while Achilles is violent, quick to anger, and jealous of his own honor, Patroclus is gentle, concerned for the bonds of friendship between members of the army, and compassionate, and he reenters the war out of pity for the many Greeks who are dying because of Achilles' absence.
-Sheila Murnaghan, introduction of the Iliad, Stanley Lombardo’s version (1997)
Our Patroclus was, gentle and kind to all / When he was alive.
Then they gathered the bones of their gentle comrade
As Hector, who killed your gentle, valiant friend.
I will never stop grieving for you, forever sweet.
You killed his comrade, Gentle and strong,
Also, Achilles is described as having man-slaying hands. Isn’t Shauna the butcher of the yellowjackets?
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clockworkbee · 1 year
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tfota posts by me
This is in no way a complete list (nor it can be, coz I post a lot about them XD) but I will keep adding to this list in time. I'm kind of just putting together some things I love <3
Jude and Cardan thinking about each other so much that they even dream about one another
Why Madoc didn't allow Jude to declare herself ready for knighthood in the tournament?
“And is it?” “Out of your system?”
Cardan's fear for Jude while she's held prisoner in the Undersea
Karma in tfota
Like father like daughters
Cardan "I am no murderer" ready to kill for Jude
Jude misunderstanding the signs Cardan gave
Why didn't Jude end her own exile when she could have?
Madoc respects Jude as a Queen
Jude's uncomfortable love for Madoc
“It meant nothing, and he should forget it.”
“I see a new monarch coming” aka. Cardan's queen aka. Jude
Soft Jurdan
Caring Cardan Supremacy
QoN underrated scene
some small/deep parallels in tfota
Jude and Cardan: heart-less
When Jude's taken a prisoner by the Undersea
How Jude feels in the mortal world and how Cardan sees her in Faerie
What Kaye thought she saw in Cardan's eyes for Jude vs. what he really saw.
tfota and lyrics
I'm kinda slowly rearranging the “lyrics” posts for tfota under the #tfota + lyrics tag so you can check it out <3
tfota parallels with sword catcher
when he thinks about her too much
princes too spoiled to even plan anyone's humiliation
tfota parallels with Simon Snow trilogy
Cardan and Baz: I didn't know what I wanted
When they don't think what/who could hurt them
How Cardan and Snow make Jude and Baz laugh
Jude and Baz: maybe I should kill him
the energy between jurdan and snowbaz
Snow and Cardan simply giving heart attacks
tfota parallels with tsc
Jude and Julian: acting behind the scenes
Cardan and Julian making decisions based on ...
Jude and Kit being like: enough is enough, I need to show them.
Cardan Greenbriar and Kieran Kingson
Cardan Greenbriar and Ash Morgenstern
tfota and other small parallels I've squealed over
Jude and Annabeth fooling people with their smiles
Cardan Greenbriar and Oliver Marks
Patroclus, Cardan and Emma, in the dark
Jude Duarte and Delilah Bard, same energy?
they feel like the only real/solid thing in the world
A little of my treasure for you 💗
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vordemtodgefeit · 11 months
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HOLY SHIT
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
THEY’VE PUT SONG OF ACHILLES AND SILENCE OF THE GIRLS ON OUR CLASSICAL RECEPTION MODULE SYLLABUS
they’ve put achilles/patroklos reception ON OUR FUCKING HONOURS MODULE WHAT IS MY LIFE
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spaceghostbuddy · 3 months
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Chapter 1 Analysis of TSOA
To be completely honest here, I am bad at analyzing and so I have made to better my skills I suppose. I love The Song Of Achilles by Madeline Miller and I thought that this would be fun. I will most likely do an overall version of this once I get through the entire book.
Anyway onto the main stuff.
Since I have read this book before I do know what to look for and so I am looking for three (possibly more) things in this book. Depictions of love, familial, romantic, and platonic, both how it actually is and how in our modern society should have had love (basically all the bad marriages). Also looking at the patriarchy in this book and (for later) feeling apart from others.
The first two paragraphs introduces Patroclus", the so far not named protagonist, parents, neither of which is named so far. The majority of the text in the two paragraphs talks about the marriage. Marriage is typically, modernly, committed out of love however this marriage was not. "It was a good match: she was an only child, and her father's fortune would go to her husband." this obviously states that it was not out of love, which is confirmed a sentence later with "If she was ugly, there were always slave girls and serving boys". Marriage which is viewed as a romantic thing is in this case viewed as something that just had to be done. There was no care involved. Also the lines "...my mother smiled. That is how they knew she was quite stupid. Brides did not smile." showcases both the misogyny that was casual in this world. The idea of marriage was more of a prize, for the man, then an actual showcase of care.
However this is not a actual telling of the event, it's how Patroclus was either told or views it. With this being what Patroclus was surrounded with growing up there wasn't much chance of him to develop healthily and the fact that he wasn't an ideal man being not enough and the only good thing that could have been said about him was that he was not sickly which his father thought made him inhuman. The next main scene the Olympics, which were held by Patroclus father and this has two main important things.
Patroclus finding Achilles, albeit neither know each other yet, and being compared to him, which is important because there is a lot of similarities and differences between these two. Both what they have enforced or had enforced on to them and narratively.
The first named character which is Peleus, the father of Achilles. He is also very important later.
There is one other scene which I believe is a showcase of Patroclus yearning for a simpler life which is him and his mother skipping rocks on a beach. Patroclus doubts the memory is real and it is included almost randomly however one thing is really important here and it is the ocean specifically the beach. Beaches are almost a pivotal part of the story in the future and without spoiling, is one of the only reoccurring scenes. Beaches are a stage that repeatedly showcases love, this case familial love between Patroclus and his mother, and facing inferiority, which is shown here with Patroclus' thoughts, "I choose one and fling it out, glad to be good at this" [he is talking about skipping rocks] it is the only time in the book that Patroclus talks about himself positively and even then he doubts the memory. Showcasing how insecure and unsure he truly is.
TBH this doesn't feel like much and kinda feels bad but idk
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dootznbootz · 5 months
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I think people need to start tagging their "I don't like (insert Greek Mythology Hero)" as "anti _____" because it's not fun going into your faves tags and seeing... very WRONG/ill-informed takes and/or just mean stuff?
I'm not even talking about "this hero's actions were cruel in this specific moment" type of analysis', those should be fine. I'm talking about "______ is an absolute MONSTER" type of posts. The ones that place characters as only "good" and "bad".
I mean I personally don't like to give "critiques" of these heroes unless I DO like them and I know a LOT about them and/or trying to keep it neutral when mentioning the "bad thing" they've done as everybody is morally gray!
I mean we have an "Anti TSOA" tag and the likes of that, why can't we do that for the heroes/characters too?
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thrxughthenxght · 9 months
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Intro Post ✨
Things I Do:
Some literary analysis
Writing advice
Prompts
Headcanons and theories
Fanfiction
Edits (sometimes)
I write books but I don't post them here. I only have one original story on Tumblr.
Things I Like/Interests:
Books - Riordanverse, AFTG, Grishaverse, OLS, RWRB, TSoA, Book Jumper, TSC, Some classic literature, Some Shakespeare, Mistborn.
Shows/Movies - TDP, SW, She-Ra, ATLA, LoK, Spider-Verse, Some Marvel and DC, NLoM, Justified, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Castlevania, Disney, Dune, Hamilton, Lucifer, John Hughes Movies, OUAT, Stranger Things, Supernatural, The Witcher, Voltron, and Umbrella Academy.
Other - D&D, Mythology, Religion, Martial Arts, Sims 4, Art, Drums, and Cats.
A Little About Me:
Lore
She/Her
White (Of western and eastern European descent)
B-Day is January 29th.
I'm always here for encouragement or kind words, especially if you're a creator, I'm always ready to hype you up. Don't be shy 👀.
I love cats, and all animals, but I have three cats so I'm a little biased.
I am a wiccan (I don't tell people irl much but I put it here so no one will be surprised if I say something about it).
I love to write. It's my passion.
I've been told I'm very nice. Come say hello! ☺️
I use a lot of emojis so that everyone knows the tone I'm using 🤗. Besides, look how fun they are. There's so many.
I'm a huge nerd you've been warned <3
DNI (Just to be safe):
If you're a generally negative person/angry person I'll ask you to stay off of my blog. I don't need the weight you carry.
Scientologist
A Christian who hates witches or Muslims or gays or anyone really.
Think serial killers are "fascinating" outside of actual psychology.
Are "anti" any fandom I listed above. If you're part of a fandom only to spread negativity I really don't know why you're in the fandom at all.
Think suicide jokes are funny/make suicide jokes.
Use AI to make art, music, writing, or anything else.
And I think this should be obvious but I'll just say if you're not okay with someone of another race, sexuality, gender, culture, or religion then please don't come here.
That's all. I usually wouldn't do a "DNI" section but I just want to stay safe/let people know my blog is safe ❤️.
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iworshipsappho · 1 year
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hiiiii forrr the ask game 🌸 anddd 🙃 anddddddd 🌿 !!
hiii!! 💜
🌸 Best compliment you ever received? ooh i actually don't really know? bc like idk how to react to compliments so tend to forget them very easily fdhgdjgk; but the one that i can remember rn is when my aunt said that she really liked my writing style when i sent her my very low effort character analysis of thetis's character from tsoa. so yeah that
🙃 What’s a weird fact that you know? these are weird but probably not niche so
artificial vanilla extract is made from beaver butts
only very few tasmanian devil babies survive birth and the dead ones are eaten by the mother
🌿 Describe your favorite outfit.
oooh i have a couple
so first off we have my at home comfy outfit, which consists of any one of my available shorts and an oversized white tee that belonged to my sister's aunt and is now mine. its one of my favourites bc i got called a boy while wearing this specific tee and purple plaid shorts :D
and then my current fav to go outfits for when i go out are either the shirt i got for my birthday, or a black shirt, with a plain white/black tshirt underneath. and then either pair of my newly bought brown and beige coloured pants. and ofc jewelry to match
💜
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spider-xan · 1 year
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The Homer discourse is WORSE
I won't necessarily dispute that, but I guess I've gotten lucky bc I only manage to see good posts and avoid anything full of TSOA poisoning where like, okay, if you want to discourse about the TSOA version of characters and events, that's fine, but don't sneak it in as Iliad analysis like a tumblr Trojan Horse lol
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When u finally realise that the song Achilles Come Down from Gang of Youths is actually Patroclus talking to Achilles
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shcherbatskya · 2 years
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dont wanna be annoying but do you know that post about giving someone a book as a gift but writing notes in it, like little silly comments and shit? i cant find it but also do you thing that would be a good idea as a gift for someone?
no worries!!! you’re not being annoying at all <3 the only one i have is this one? not sure if that’s the exact one you’re talking about but! and yes i do think that would make a great gift!! it really gives a lot of insight into you as a person and it’s a great way to bond with whomever you’re giving it to <3 im currently annotating my friends copy of tsoa, just to get them to read it with me, and don’t let the tumblr classics dark academia girlies get to you, what you write in the notes doesn’t have to be profound or really good analysis. a lot of mine are jokes or pointing out connections with other things i know!
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aetherin21 · 1 year
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In between those pages there were more.
Tragedy does not only come from the love and death of two lovers spoken in a song of memories. But also in the stories that surround them and binded their beings together in their waking moments.
A story of a king who had loathed his wife for being simple and feeble minded. A wife that birthed a soft child, unfit of his glory. A son and a prince that can not even be an ounce of selfishness beneath his fingertips as one expected to have. 
A story of a king who raised boys for his self fulfilled kingdom. Making an army fit for his son's rule. To crown him in gold and prestige as fit for the so-called Aristos achaion.
A story of a king who grew weary and decrypt in his own little castle. Raising disposed princesses in playful dances and pretty dresses. With only a daughter at his side, spoiled with absolute love and care.
A story of a king who raged war for ten years for his brother's honor and the honor of those who had taken oath from the hands of yesteryears. A man deluded by the idea of fame from his predecessors as ichor washed his hands for the sake of a trophied damsel that wasn't even his.
A story of a king who had lost his son, a corpse paraded through his own land. Begging for his return and being buried with dignity. A war they did not know would carry on for a decade just for a mere woman who came to his doors with a prince in hand, all too willingly and all too blinded with love.
A story of a lowly goddess defiled by a man in hopes of a promise. A child that would surpass any hero and any god who allowed such atrocity to happen to her wake. Birthing a boy who will one day prove that she is more than a tool for the fates.
A story of a queen and a wife who had nothing but her lyre and a son who did not know what to think of her. A simple woman who is enamored by the sound of the strings, singing soft hymns of silence. 
A story of a princess who wished for love and glory. Promised by a goddess and her father's approval. A night that seemed heated and filled with passion was nothing but an illusion in the grandeur of things. Reduced to nothing but a mere woman used by time as another bearer of the next prophecy. 
A story of a priestess sacrificed for the selfish war to come. A father who she loved and honored took her life in front of an altar that was supposed to be the peak of her youth. Longing the love that was supposed to tie her fingertips with his but only met with the cold rest of a prayer.
A story of a woman turned to slave to an army who ruined her family and her neighbors. Unsuspecting victim of a crime that they knew nothing of. Only to be met with the kindness of man already in love.
Achilles and Patroclus story is a tragedy that is the truth. But the people who had surrounded them were too. As if pulling these two lovers undeserving of an ending they had both wished, for the others had already met their doom.
Yet in between the pages of their youth it wasn't anything but just that. There was hope, love and joy that stayed and lingered in their bones. In the laughter they had shared, in the songs they had sang and in the warmth that they both held. It was there as they basked within each other even if some words were unspoken and only yearning stares remained.
Chiron was witness to this matrimony and so was the others. The names of kings, queens, wives, slaves, princes and princesses had seen their adoration flourished in the steps they had taken. Even if all the gods and goddesses took their bets on which future to side, they all knew of their love because even until death it never waned.
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