#tommyinnit crit

[charmell3]

daily reminder its ok to enjoy problematic things as long as your not giving the creator money, or support their actions

#dreamsmp #dreamsmp crit #jshlatt crit #tommyinnit crit #dreamwastaken crit #danganronpa crit #ultra despair girls crit #panty and stocking crit #your fave is problematic #problematic media #you cant escape it #fnaf crit #genshin impact crit #mihoyo crit #cookie run crit #devsis crit #everything is problematic #danganronpa #ultra despair girls #cookie run #mihoyo #genshin impact #fnaf #panty and stocking #tommyinnit #jshlatt #dreamwastaken

[nervousmonolith]

That ratio fly high dude your fucked

#monolith mumbles #Discourse #Me when i get kidnapped and need my location doxxed #Tommyinnit crit #Just in case

[tobi-smp]

I just feel like there's an inherent difference from tommy calling wilbur crazy while he watches his brother, his stability, spiral in front of him. desperate and scared, no idea how to help him, but wanting more than anything to Try, to never let go. trying to do anything to stop wilbur from hurting himself, from hurting anybody else, while wilbur actively tries to convince him that he's already too far gone to be helped. choosing wilbur again and again and again.

and technoblade calling wilbur crazy while actively agreeing with everything wilbur wanted to do. no qualms with him wanting to blow up the country or kill people just thinking he's being too mentally ill about it.

both of them were hurtful to wilbur undeniably, tommy probably more so even. but as the audience we should be able to recognize that these aren't on the same level or coming from the same place right.

#dream smp #wilbur soot #tommyinnit #crimeboys #this is probably c!techno crit but I'm not saying anything about cc!techno #a scared child that doesn't want his brother to kill himself just shouldn't be treated the same as whatever techno had going on

[mellorphic]

Thinking about how the way this fandom treats anger as a trauma response?

There’s the c!Tommy method - pretend it does not exist or pretend it’s the only trait he has

The c!Wilbur method - demonise and vilify him for it

Or the c!Niki method - turn it into a girlboss trait

#dream smp #dsmp #c!tommy #tommyinnit #c!wilbur #wilbur soot #c!niki #niki nihachu #fandom crit

[zeta-in-de-walls]

Hey guys, I’m afraid I’m going to continue critiquing the DSMP finale. 

So, with the first two streams I don’t think there were any major issues. I dislike the Dream and Punz friendship personally as staged disc finale was my least favourite plot twist so seeing that actually cropping up in canon isn’t fun. Another arc where Tommy and Tubbo decide to go and kill Dream is a little dull too but theyre good at making it feel fresh enough. 

It’s with the third stream that issues really start making themselves known. Dream and Punz’s plan is not all that good or interesting, certainly not when none of these are going to be explored at all given that it’s the penultimate stream. Like, what does people’s limbos being determined on how they die mean? What did it matter? It doesn’t even fit with past canon! And why did the revive book allow Dream to mind control Ranboo? What even...? 

More importantly though, Tommy is forced to give up all his possessions in his enderchest. Then he has to sacrifice his discs. I am incensed by this plot point. It’s once again reminding us that Tommy’s made to lose everything again and again thanks to Dream and these sacrifices are portrayed as a positive thing? Loving things isn’t a problem and he shouldn’t have to learn again and again to give up all he has without being seen as selfish. Its not fun seeing this character beaten down again and again. I was hoping that the finale would subvert this idea once more and remind us that it was cruel and wrong and that Tommy deserves to be happy and live. 

Going into the final stream, I again hated that Tommy’s plan involved killing himself. Tommy’s character has low self-worth and has had suicidal thoughts so this is not a good plot! He should learn he has worth, not the opposite. He shouldn’t need to die for his friends and he certainly shouldn’t apologise for existing. His story was all about how it’s okay to be yourself. It was always thrilling to see him standing up and moving forward unafraid to stand for what he believes him no matter how much he was crushed. 

Sadly the finale exceeded my expectations for how bad it could be. 

All those ideas I mentioned? Discarded. Tommy plans to die... and does die. Tubbo dies as well, so the sacrifice meant nothing in the end. Everything was lost. All the memories and stuff that made the Dream SMP the special place that it was, gone in an instant. None of it mattered in the end. No one stepped in this time to save anyone. 

And yet, that’s not the worst thing. Because this stream doesn’t really focus on Tommy. It’s Dream’s story. Tommy in the prison realises that Dream is just a person in the end, who had reasons for what he was doing. His reasons were his friends except Tommy joining the server got in the way of that. According to Dream’s narrative, Tommy provoked him into becoming what he was and Dream has always secretly longed for those simpler times. 

Tommy finds understanding when he sees a memory of Dream before Tommy had joined being happy. And this causes Dream to have doubt and he makes it clear that he wants those times back, that he might give up on all his evil plans just like that. Tommy apologises to Dream for hurting him that first day and that’s apparently a sign of Tommy’s growth in finally learning to see the other perspective.

This plot is rancid. Dream makes no attempt to understand Tommy, not even a little. Despite Tommy repeatedly pointing out how much it all hurt and how much he’d suffered, Dream doesn’t show the slightest sympathy. Yet the narrative paints Tommy trying to understand him as this special thing? Like it was the solution all along. Dream can abuse people and cause immense suffering but its up to his victims to try and understand him? Why is the story telling us Tommy, an incredibly thoughtful character anyway, needed to learn understanding? Why is it hinting that Tommy and Dream were not so different and their stories mirrored each other, both secretly desiring the same things? 

Dreams motives are so flimsy and it makes so little sense that he’d question his plan now. Yet he asks whether its too late and you can see Tommy’s regret for the nuke plan. His whole sacrifice thing, is everyone’s doom. How cruel. Dream can ruin everyone’s happiness but the question we should be asking is ‘what about Dream’s happiness?’ apparently. 

And finally, we end u with the characters on a new world with amnesia. Though they’ve forgotten everything, we still see Tommy and Dream becoming friends and this is some sort of triumph, implying with what came before that yes Dream and Tommy could’ve been friends had Tommy not ruined Dream’s world by causing trouble on that first day. 

Annoyingly, so many of these points don’t even make much sense. Tommy has tried to understand Dream before. He visited in the prison for instance. Tommy wanting to kill Dream is framed as a bad thing, like it was wrong to have this fixation but this fails to recall how dangerous Dream is to Tommy and how he’s promised to kill him repeatedly in the past. Tommy had been living alone drinking invisibility potions in fear! 

Each element taken on their own is a problem, but the whole is so much worse than the sum of its parts. The bigger picture is that Tommy dies learning that his abuser was a person with feelings too that he screwed up and he ought to have been more understanding but his plan got himself and everyone he cared about killed. He is the monster that killed the server and everyone he loved.

#dsmp crit #meta #analysis #tommyinnit

[cupcraft]

It also should be said that c!Tommy wasn't happy at the end of that experience. It wasn't a sweet thanks. It was bitter.

Like yeah im sure he's happy c!Wilbur didn't actually throw away the real discs but based off what he said it's clear there's a lot there. There's the "you take things that are mine and use them" (paraphrased) quote, which is a hint that this is something that's happened before in ctommys eyes and thus left unaddressed in their conversation today. There's the fact c!Wilbur used his discs and threatened his life in front of him without telling him the plan, trusting him to know the plan. There's the fact c!Wilbur made parts of that moment about him when he doesn't know that the discs aren't the full extent of c!Dreams obsession with c!Tommy. There's the fact c!Tommy learned that c!Wilbur is valuable to c!Dream, and thus can be controlled. There's the fact c!Tommy said thank you, afraid to tell c!Wilbur the bitterness about the situation. It wasn't a happy thanks, it wasnt a concluding thanks, it was a tired and rough thanks.

#cj ur post inspired me #dsmp #tommyinnit #wilbur soot #feel free to correct or add on #meta #not crit yet again

[stemms]

As much as I’ve always admired the sheer creativity and kind attitude of the DSMP fandom, it’s nearly impossible to overlook the weird™ behaviour, regarding c!Primers in particular, and although it has been said countless times before me, I’d like to throw in my two cents. 

The uncomfortable and frankly gross phenomenon of Bowspam, coined by Poppytwt, which portrays a romantic and sexual relationship between c!Tommy and c!Dream, is the reason I made this post in the first place. Unfortunately, some content featuring c!Prime is rather predatory, which contradicts the original source and the whole point of their dynamic. For example, if you type “Discduo” in the Spotify search bar, you’ll most likely find multiple “Discduo / Bowspam” playlists instead, which is obviously very gross, and appears as if the latter was still normalised to some extent. As much as this tag is disturbing in general, the more details you learn about it, the more problematic it seems. 

Originally, Tadca was nothing but a collection of warnings, so that those who felt uncomfortable with abusive content, could simply block it, but Poppytwt claimed the tag, and that’s when things got actually weird™. It happened because some artists drew a couple of weird™ comics by pure accident, and it was used as a proof that all c!Prime enjoyers ship them. Andy never intended for Tadca to be twisted into something so heinous, and for this exact reason, he asked everyone to stop using the tag because of harassment, yet strangely enough, he was the one receiving harassment for something completely out of his control. Unfortunately, it wasn’t an exceptional case, as many other c!Prime enjoyers received death threats and harassment from c!Dream apologists, just for authentically depicting an abusive dynamic; pretending that c!Prime was paedophilic, and sending tons of harassment was easier than admitting that their fave wasn’t as good as they wanted to believe. Weirdly enough, Bowspam enjoyers never faced as much harassment as c!Primers, even though their content fully matched that definition. Plus, c!Trinity also received a good share of criticism because some people believed that it was a second wave of Tadca, except c!Punz got involved in it too. 

Furthermore, it’s important to note that the c!Prime dynamic offers real-life abuse victims a voice, and it’s utterly disrespectful to sexualise it, as it may discourage them from speaking out about their situation because of a fear of being misunderstood, due to constant victim blaming in the fandom, and a misconception that any kind of abuse outside of family, is sexual. Fiction does have an important impact on real life, and unfortunately, some people forget about that completely. We should also remember that while creating c!Prime content might help some people cope with trauma and is often inspired by their own experiences, some people still choose to be weird about it, which I find extremely disrespectful.

#dream smp #dsmp #c!primeboys #c!discduo #discduo #c!tommy #tommyinnit #c!dream #discourse #fandom critical #dsmp fandom crit #tw abuse #tw obsessive behavior #tw possessive behaviour

[bronzetomatoes]

lol btw when you try to pretend the discs don't mean anything you're switching the "you hesitated?" conversation from 'victim having to choose between his friend's life or freedom from his abuser' over to 'teen being torn between his friend's life and some vinyls' and it's infuriating actually!!!

#look anika's talking! #mcyt #tommyinnit #fandom crit #discourse #anika famous moment

[cmyknoise]

So.

With c!Wilbur’s apologies to c!Techno, and Techno’s claims of being lied to about Pogtopia’s plans on reinstating L’manburg as a country, and how he was betrayed. Let me remind you of a moment. 

A conversation between c!Techno and c!BBH which occurred before Tubbo and Quackity told Techno about their plans on reinstating the L’manburg government, and before there was a war, and most certainly before this ‘surprise’ betrayal of them reinstating a government and assigning a president. 

Badboyhalo was talking to Technoblade about the Badlands. He was talking about if Techno would be okay with an anarchist group [the Badlands], and questioned what Techno’s plans are. 

Techno states that he’s fine with an anarchy, that he’s not okay with killing cats, and then he states this;

"I want to leave a smoking crater from which not only will Manberg never recover, but from which no new country can rise in its place. History will FORGET that a country ever existed in this area."

Again. This is before each and every excuse c!Techno has given to Tommy, Wilbur, Quackity, Tubbo, literally everyone, on why he’d set withers on this place. 

He claims he was betrayed by them reinstating government. He claims that Wilbur had lied to him and that he didn’t know about them planning to reinstate L’manburg. Despite evidence of Quackity and Tubbo literally telling him.

But maybe you can brush it off on he wasn’t listening, or he didn’t take them seriously. 

But this absolutely proves that he was planning on blowing this place up regardless of whether they reinstated government or not. This is evidence is before Quackity and Tubbo tell him. This is before the war. This is before the betrayal. He was already planning on blowing the place to smithereens even before Dream had offered and egged him on. He was never going to let this place go peacefully. He was never going to give a new government a chance of being peaceful. It was deemed corrupt before it's creation.

And this behavior is repeated with Doomsday when Tommy works with him. In his To-Do List, he had always had 'destroy L’manburg' listed at the top. Every time Tommy would say he didn’t want to destroy L’manburg, or said he just wanted his discs he didn’t want revenge, Techno would change subjects until he stopped bringing it up all together (vocally, to Tommy. visually he’d highlight the destroy line in the list to chat every time he opened up the book). 

It didn’t matter, it would have never mattered. Doomsday was going to happen no matter what. Dream planned on destroying the place, Techno planned on destroying the place. There would have been no way to convince them otherwise, and Tommy had tried every time it was brought up. It just so happened that a perfect opportunity and cover arose for it to happen then and there.

Tommy’s “betrayal” of Techno by siding with Tubbo (mind you, he’d done so because he realized he no longer wanted to play this cycle of revenge, and he didn’t want to be a bad person, and he didn’t want to hurt his best friend. He chose Tubbo over Techno, just as Techno would’ve chosen Phil over everything in the same situation). 

Tommy’s “betrayal” of Techno was used as a scapegoat reasoning for his destruction, turning a plan that would’ve happened no matter what, into a ‘lesson’ to be ‘taught’ and an ‘act’ of ‘revenge’. 

This is exactly the same as what happened on November 16th. Wilbur was the only official ‘traitor’ to L’manburg deemed by Dream, as Wilbur had been the one on this spiral and dead set plan to blow the place up, egged on and encouraged by Dream. He had no idea about withers, or that Techno had betrayed them in the first place until recently. He had no idea. He still doesn't even know they had a part in Doomsday. He still thinks it was all his fault.

Techno on the other hand, had known before there could have even been talks of betrayal, or before Wilbur could have even ‘lied’ to him. His mind was already made up. 

Pogtopia’s “betrayal” of Techno was used as a scapegoat reasoning for his deadset plans of destruction, that was planned far in advance of the war. 

They are scapegoats that he still uses to this day, and has even built upon adding details such as adding that Wilbur and Tommy had deliberately lied to him, or had deliberately tried to hurt him, which is simply false. In both of these situations, he’s planned from the beginning what he had wanted to do, regardless of how these “betrayals” made him feel. 

***This post is tagged appropriately with critical tags, so if you don’t want to see or hear c!techno critical, you should block the tags. This isn’t a post for debate or argument, it’s an analysis and well, critical post. That’s the point. Thank you. 💛

#dsmp #dream smp #tommyinnit #wilbur soot #c!technoblade critical #c!techno crit #technoblade #l'manburg #pogtopia #manberg vs pogtopia #analysis #lemon's stuff

[trashfangirlsworld]

I feel like criticizing Tommy for what he said yesterday is fair, because even IF you believe dream is innocent you shouldn’t joke about a situation like that, and unfortunately the fact that Tommy tends to not think before he speaks is a flaw of his that he needs to work on. However people demanding once again that ccs drop dream are going to be disappointed, because the sad reality is that even people and ccs outside the fandom for the most part either don’t take it seriously/aren’t even considering it or they’re waiting for more information to take a stance and I’m sure the three past false allegations on other ccs don’t help either, so unless dream is proven 100% guilty nothing is going to change. Personally, if any ccs that I like make content with dream I’m simply not watching it, but I’m not gonna let a potential piece of shit ruin the stuff that I enjoy and bring me comfort especially since I can’t control who ccs are friends with and I never particularly liked him anyway.

#ideally the best thing to do would be to hold off anything relating with him until the situation is resolved #unfortunately I understand why that’s not happening #discourse #dream situation #Tommy crit #tommyinnit

[piningpebbles]

just my quick two-cents on the ending but i thought some elements were really well done (c!jack’s feelings and bitterness, c!clingyduo getting to fight c!dream, c!sam’s reaction’s to dream’s death, c!punz’ reveal, etc.) but others (specifically the amnesia and kind of tone-deaf sudden sympathetic view of c!dream) were done really poorly. so while i really enjoyed some parts of it, and it’s always going to have that essence of the dream smp that i love so much, the ending (tommy’s last stream specifically) felt really cheap in terms of how it left the characters we’ve come to know so well.

here are some ideas i came up with for other ways i thought could’ve been cool for the ending to follow:

- tubbo and tommy kill dream. punz revives him but ends up turning on him and ultimately teaming with tommy and tubbo again but for real this time (though for his own reasons aside from just power). he doesn’t have to be a good guy, in fact this could’ve set him up to both get c!dream out of the picture and get punz into place as the major antagonist for the next chapter.

- tubbo and tommy kill dream. punz revives him, but this time tubbo and tommy run across the server telling everyone (if not everyone, just c!sam) that dream’s back and sam ends up working together with them to trap dream (and punz?) back in the prison. but just when sam’s ready to resign himself back to his own personal hell that is pandora’s vault, tubbo gets the idea to nuke the prison with the two still inside, where they all go to the nukes and find jack. jack and tommy argue, setting up jack as the current main antagonist for the next chapter as nothing is resolved between the two. and then sure enough, tommy, tubbo, sam, and jack all see the nukes blow up the prison.

- this one i actually thought was going to happen!! tubbo and tommy kill dream. punz revives him, and tommy plans to trap them both at the prison so tubbo can set off the nuke and kill them. the nuke is set to pandora’s vault. jack goes to the nukes, thinking tubbo’s on his side, and ends up targeting aiming the nukes towards tommy’s house/the hotel/bad and skeppy’s mansion. the explosion does reach the prison, but the impact only ends up killing dream and punz. tommy, tubbo, and jack then talk and help rebuilt whatever was caught the blast. if bad’s mansion is caught in the wreckage it’s a good building point for the egg to focus in for the next chapter.

#dream smp spoilers #tommyinnit #tubbo #jack manifold #dream smp #mcyt #just throwing some ideas around #i think sam should've seen the prison blow up <3 as a treat <3 #i'll just write the dsmp myself i think these were really fun to think about #rambling rocks #pebble post #// #mentioned: #character death #c!dream neg #c!dream crit #c!dream mention

[pxtopia]

Honest thoughts

I am very aware of the impossibility of this occurring but ngl i really wish the ending involved more people :( like remember all the big events like the first fight for independence, the manberg festival, and november 16? They all included so many people and so many different perspectives showcasing the different characters emotions and experiences. It would feel so much more complete if everyone was there for the end of the world. Also c!Tommy apologizing to his abuser is a big yikes from me, c!wilbur would’ve never let this happen

#dream smp critical #crit #dream smp #c!tommy #c!dream critical #c!dream #tommyinnit #dreamwastaken #dream smp spoilers

[thevoidmeows]

I think for me the reason this lore stream felt so off was that tommy was acting his heart out with his sadness and need for c!wilbur to stay, only for c!wilbur to be like love ya bro, but i’m off to utah lol,, and just leaves c!tommy on the shore

#idk maybe i'm not seeing it properly #but c!wilbur seemed a bit ooc from previous lore streams #and any jokey nature wilbur intended just didn't really jive with tommy's seriousness #dsmp #dsmp spoilers #wilbur soot #tommyinnit #c!wilbur #c!tommy #wilbur crit #<- maybe? idk i just wanted to be safe #void meows

[tobi-smp]

I never pulled my grand "I told you so" with the implications the primeboys ending has on the crimeboys finale, namely because it brings me no joy or vindication to be proven right.

But peeking behind the curtain of apathy the end of the dsmp inspires in me, not even in my worst doom posting did I believe they would kill c!tommy. I'd been hurt by the Implications, that c!wilbur knew that tommy (his entire family, the server itself) was in danger and chose to leave anyways. But I never thought that would be The End. I thought it'd ruin any chance for a relationship crimeboys had left, that it Should Have. But I was completely certain any reality where wilbur would try to reach out to a brother that wasn't there anymore would be confined to fanfics.

Wilbur found out about exile, he had the pieces that dream had isolated tommy from everyone he loved, abused him into being suicidal, took all of tommy's lives, brought him back because he wasn't done playing with him, and was currently Out There a free man. We Know he understood the implications even if he still didn't have all of the information, because we were Shown that anguish and anger. He reached out to dream himself with Nothing just for the chance to shove his life between dream and tommy.

And then he just. Left. He left his brother there entirely of his own free will, seemingly without ever Considering either the danger that he'd be leaving tommy in or the fact that he could have taken tommy with him.

The idea of being vulnerable, of opening himself up to someone regardless of the risks that it could be messy or painful or hard, was so repulsive to him he'd convinced himself that the only thing he could do was strip himself of contact with every single axis of his support system to escape it. self isolating with the Hope that he'll figure out how to be happy by himself one day, and that everything would be waiting for him exactly as he left it when he was ready to build those relationships he was so afraid of now.

And he'd gotten so in his head about this that he hadn't told anybody, hadn't given them the courtesy of warning let alone the chance to really Talk to him about it. Tommy only got an explanation at all because he'd been in the right time and place to force it out of him just before he'd disappeared into the night.

And then tommy died. And then they'd all died.

Tommy spent the last weeks of his life spiraling into fear, paranoia, isolation, and addiction Directly in response to the pain and fear from wilbur leaving. Too afraid to Exist by himself knowing that dream could be anywhere and that much of the server had hurt him before. A direct parallel to wilbur's Own paranoia.

And then he died.

If wilbur ever gets to the point where he feels he can reach out there won't be anyone left. Not someone he'd recognize. If he ever realizes that he made a mistake he'll never get to fix it.

Their relationship isn't just broken, it's Unmade. There isn't a ghost left, a soul in the afterlife, that knows the relationship tommy had with Wilbur. That could tell him what he'd meant, how much he mattered, how much it'd hurt when he left.

There is no catharsis left, there is only nothing. A missed connection never to be found again.

#wilbur soot #tommyinnit #dream smp #long post #crit #maybe? #its more of a funeral service really

[twogchamp]

but also in all seriousness i hated that fucking ending FUCK DREAM haha

#dream neg #shut up twig #twig talks #mcyt #dream crit #dream smp neg #dream smp finale #tommy innit #tommyinnit lore #dsmp #tubbo #jack manifold

[zeta-in-de-walls]

Okay I’ve seen talk about how Tommy trying to understand Dream is not that bad. Even good character development for Tommy which makes it an okay ending. 

So allow me to make it clear: it is not good!!

The problem isn’t so much the subject itself. You can make understanding that this person is human into a good plot point. In theory.

However, the problem is everything else around it too. 

Tommy does not come to understand Dream and then go home, finally able to move on, knowing that Dream is just a despicable person who was wrong to hurt him. No, Tommy dies. 

This finale is not really Tommy’s finale. It’s Dream’s.

The character development was shown by Dream. Tommy goes to him and Dreams real motives are revealed, how he is not content with the world he has and wants to be immortal, but even more secretly he misses the simpler times and wants them back. He looks down on Tommy for being content to love things and love his friends and grow old one day but they’re not so different.

Tommy sees Dream’s memories and sees him happy before Tommy joined. That leads Tommy to conclude that Dream’s misery is partly his fault. And so Tommy says that he was wrong to have hurt him that day. He doesn’t explicitly say sorry but the apology is implied. 

And so Dream doubts and questions what he was doing. He admits he does miss those simpler times and questions whether it’s too late. 

Tommy is about to say something encouraging perhaps but then his face falls as he remembers the nuke. It is too late, because he’s doomed them all. And he says sorry. 

Then Tommy wakes up in a new world with no memories but Dream is there and Tommy asks him if he wants to be friends.

...Looking at this sequence of events as a whole, its really clear that it’s not about Tommy. It’s not about Tommy learning to move on or be more empathetic. It’s about showing how Tommy and Dream aren’t really that different and that they could be friends in another life. 

And look how it’s Dream who questions what he’s doing and asks whether its too late for him. He’s basically asking if he deserves another chance. And so its meant to be tragic that the nuke drops before they have a chance to find out. 

It was Tommy who was told not to take his exile or what happened there so personally as the world doesn’t revolve around him and Dream would’ve just revived him anyway. It’s emphasised that his pain and suffering was unimportant to Dream and Punz and he should just get over it already. So what if it hurt him? Tommy only finds progress, not in getting them to emphasise with his pain and suffering, but in sympathising with their own pain that he had been too short-sighted to see. He was wrong to have hurt them. 

This is Dreams story of being given a second chance. The finale of waking up in the new world is Dream’s second chance.

That is the story. Those are the themes! I hate it.

#tommyinnit #meta #analysis #dsmp crit