#they still play major major roles in our society and it's absolutely valid for someone to complain about them?

[be-the-glenn-to-my-maggie]

I just need to rant okay. As a kid who has grown up hearing pretty much everyone complain about the government this and our horrible society that I’m honestly just… done all around. No Grandma Agnus, I don’t care about how you think lgbtq+ people are all going to a hell I don’t even believe in but you know what, cousin Cadence? I also don’t care about how all homophobic people are the true evil ones. No, I don’t care that trans people exist but guess what? I also don’t care that there are people who think differently because people are entitled to their own fucking opinions so long as they aren’t actively harming others (if you don’t like them don’t interact with them more than you have to on both sides, it’s not a hard concept).

Yes I understand that racism has played a huge role in our country but I’m pretty sure that’s not why they got your order wrong at Wendy’s Uncle Jason. Yes I understand that women have had it tough in the past but guess what, last I checked we’re doing a hell of a lot better and no men are not stupid or evil for fuck’s sake and yes they do have problems of their own even though they’re not women

No, I don’t think that all rich people are evil or owe us something (and that’s coming from someone who used to live in a tiny little trailer and only got a small packet of gum for Christmas once) but I also don’t think that workers are over-exaggerating some of their horrible conditions such as payment. No, I don’t care what pronouns you use Finley but guess what when you come at me for “assuming your gender” or whatever twice in the same day despite the fact that it changes literally every hour then that’s where we start to have problems. No, I don’t care that you believe in god but fun fact I am a heavy believer in the separation of church and state and will you look at that, it seems like church and state are getting a bit too chummy up in this house when you claim that all women who get abortions are murderers who are gonna go to hell and abortion should be criminalized for the sake of their souls Auntie Susana.

On top of that I become old enough to vote and stuff soon but honestly I don’t really want to. All I’ve seen my whole life are a bunch of adults going at each other’s throats like rabies-infested dogs and for what? So that they can try to get an extra bit of rope in ya’ll’s tug-of-war? And then older people come at people my age who don’t want to be involved in the shitshow? It almost makes me want to laugh my ass off because that’s like polluting a well and then pleading for the townsfolk to drink that nasty water.

Sorry for my harsh words. I just had a lot of frustrations and really needed to say something anywhere. Know that none of this was directed at you or anyone with strong opinions in a malicious way, I’m honestly just so tired. It feels like everyone everywhere is fighting and for what? No one listens to anyone anymore. I do fully intend to vote when I’m old enough, I’m just done with everyone shouting at me from all sides.

I am very confused as to why this rant was brought to me, because I literally am one of the people you're complaining about.

When I saw this ask, I had to stop looking at this website for like three days. It's a very privileged take, honestly. I don't blame people for getting tired of hearing about politics and world issues all the time, it is exhausting. But as someone who's frequently called exhausting, well, I'm fucking sorry if hearing about the people suffering around you is bothering you. That is a privilege. You can feel that way, but recognize you feeling that way is a luxury.

Your (I'm assuming) metaphorical Grandma hating gay people isn't the same as your metaphorical cousin calling homophobes evil. As I said to my mom yesterday in a very similar conversation, your grandma has the luxury of leaving that conversation any time. So do you. I, as well as other gay people, do not have that luxury. Getting annoyed or tired about any debate on basic human rights I understand, but equally at both sides is bizarre to me. It's like getting mad at a random person in 1912 and the Titanic passengers equally for continuing to talk about the Titanic. One of these groups hAS TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE TITANIC RIGHT NOW. You're not on the Titanic, so you can shut your newspaper and get annoyed it's all you hear about. THE TITANIC PASSENGERS CANT! One side is there because it's literally them being talked about. The other is there because they have too much free time and are demons.

I understand why you feel like people are fighting all the time. They are. But politics are not very black and white. In America it's really just the right and the farther right. But individuals are fighting because things need to be fought for, simply enough. Silence is complicity, and your first two paragraphs are just that.

@antigirlb0ss look at this shit

#sorry buddy i don't know why you brought this drivel to me #but i am not the one #i eSPECIALLY am not the one for not wanting to vote convos #although i understand feeling ike ur vote is useless #it's not smaller state elections are very important #but gtfo about racism and sexism dude #they still play major major roles in our society and it's absolutely valid for someone to complain about them? #also rich people are not evil but billionares are #theres a distinct difference #and also “workers are exaggerating some of their horrible conditions” hOW DOES THE BOOT TASTE MY GUY DOES IT TASTE GOOD? jesus christ #capital owners don't need you LARPing as a shoeshiner for them they are actually fine just on their own #both sides-ing every issue you brought up here literally makes you the problem #trump: there are good people on both sides #<- that's you #melissa's asks #melissa bullshit #i get more and more radicalized (become more reasonable) every day

[marimopeace]

there's a limit on how much you can be an isekai intellectual...

a bunch of analyses have been popping up before me all day so i wanted to throw my hat into the ring. all love to ppl who are exercising their creative minds + ppl like geoff here who just talk about these things because of fan interest but i feel like there reaches a point where exploring the "types" of isekai is pointless? i've seen ppl list out the different types of villainess revenge isekai or fantasy mmorpg isekai but eh why fit them all into separate boxes like that?

i think it's easier to think of isekai as a "type" (genre) of itself with only two categories: 1) a focus on isekai (lit. another world) 2) tensei (lit. to be reborn). this allows for a variety of applications and thus tropes that ppl see so many trends of!

with isekai - in another world

you see everything from:

pure fantasy (inuyasha, digimon wait maybe not the best example but in my childhood mind i count digimon as pure fantasy, fushigi yugi)

mmorpg inspired fantasy/adventure (.hack//legend of twilight, sao ugh, log horizon, overlord (LOVE OVERLORD!)

otome game-esque worlds >>> this is where it gets complicated with "villainess routes" since i admit there are multiple villainess tropes but this is why it's nice to not think of this as a "sub-type/genre" bc it frees you from those complications! (the saint's magic power is omnipotent, the white cat's revenge as plotted from the dragon king's lap soso cute!, the savior's book cafe in another world, i'm a villainous daughter so i'm going to keep the last boss wait i can't remember if she's reborn in this one lmaooo see this is why rules make everything hard)

with tensei storylines - being reincarnated/reborn in another world as *insert character/role*

you see...

the same tropes!!

pure fantasy (a returner's magic should be special, reminiscence adonis, the lady and the beast, light and shadow, i can't think of a manga off the top of my head for this ah)

mmorpg inspired fantasy/adventure (so i'm a spider so what i stan kumoko so hard, her majesty's swarm, can't name another off the top of my head ah i hate lists shorter than two things...)

self-insert based games/novels (fiance's observation log of a self-proclaimed villainess, who made me a princess, death is the only ending for the villainess, the villainess wants to marry a commoner, honestly games vs novels are different applications but i'm not in the headspace to try to remember a bunch of both lol)

*insert line break to give random ppl a break from scrolling but tl; dr just enjoy things for what they are no need to micro analyze*

similar variations occur in both genres (if ppl want to be super technical i guess i'm arguing that isekai itself is a massive genre that has the "another world" subgenre and "reincarnation" subgenre tl; dr) so i think it's honestly a huge pain to try to separate all these trends into so many different types of stories. for me personally it's easier to not get overwhelmed by this gigantic umbrella of "isekai" that spans light novels, manhwa, manga, and mobile games by just stripping each story down into its trademark tropes (aka character archetypes, story structures) and slapping "oh this is a person going to a world that's not ours" and "this person gets reborn as blank in another world". none of this "omg this power fantasy is such a this kind of isekai moment" or "there are 14 different types of villainess revenge stories and this series fits into this" bc AH labels! limitations! circle-jerks via ppl trying to compartmentalize everything and sound smart for leaving a comment on story analysis instead of ooh-ahhing over a character's face! dividing things into light novel manga vs manga vs korean manhwa ft. female characters!

the last bit is mainly why i feel frustrated by ppl's insistence to group everything?

the video linked at the beginning of the post (honestly good video essay, i enjoyed it, i just kept thinking in my head the whole time "marimo these are tropes do not take the genre talk literally") has a baby comment thread talking about "korean isekai manhwas" as a genre featuring nothing but reincarnated villainess' and i can't.

like i cannot acknowledge that as a genre of any sort. the energy i felt reading through some of those insights takes me back to 2012 when all yt americans discovered k-pop and deemed all korean music k-pop from then on! (ppl still do this now, yes you are seen and don't talk to me pls i don't like you. k-pop is korean pop music and nothing less and nothing more. take a few seconds and try to parse apart aspects of korean culture instead of slamming everything into a monolithic label that has the letter k and a hyphen.) it feels so odd to see a bunch of young ppl on ig and tiktok acknowledge korean media that happens to be in the form of a webtoon as "oh stories all about young girls becoming villains in stories they made/played" bc it feels so reductive u.u

(positionality disclaimer that i'm praying isn't actually necessary: i am a 3rd-generation korean of japanese descent do not fite me i am exhausted irl of ppl asking for validation/verification bc massive shove off.)

breaking news! korean manhwa...is just as multifaceted as japanese manga...bc how can comics as an art-form not have multiple genres...huh such a shocker?!?! same likely applies to media in other parts of the world like chinese manhwa and french comics--not my place to explain either of those i just know those industries exist bc of wakfu and donghua shows by Tencent.

at the end of the day it's not like analyzing any kind of isekai is wrong--absolutely not!! i think it can be super fun to think about how isekai elements complicate a story (MCs trying to go back home, ppl from the og world, reincarnation plot-twists) or maybe even bash a series for including some kind of other world element when they could have just written a super fun fantasy.

insert marimo's brief ramble that hey you can get sick of truck-kun's hitting disillusioned guys who happen to be super duper smart or girls who happen to be master chefs/craftsmen but transporting a fully-grown being into a fantasy setting is the ultimate cheat code for making mundane modern technology seem cool and overpowered, and being reincarnated as a fully grown person in a world with a pre-made story/game set-up completely bypasses the need for an author to slowly flesh out world-building in a natural progression so isekai is actually a really smart writing tool it's just that there are some series where the author didn't use it well at all and it's cheesy or clearly isekai was misused as a vehicle for character/story development and it was pointless *DEEP BREATH OUT*

in this essay i will argue...lol i am such a culture studies major!! if i were an english major i would be talking all about writing but here i am having a side-tangent about world-building via someone being reborn wow i love this for me (don't get me started on when an author has someone reincarnate as a baby and the story is mostly them having warm fluffy moments with their family--typically father figures--and getting lots of powers i could and would and probably will rant about east asian toxicity)

but anyway am i crazy????? like yes for being passionate about the technical use of a word like genre (i am a scorpio rising let me be fussy pls) but i don't think it's a lot to ask for ppl to not unironically see "villainess revenge isekai" as the definition of korean manhwa.

idk as someone who resonates with why japanese isekai is so popular domestically + why a lot of korean manhwa feat. the same tropes (it's not for great reasons lads it's actually depressing tbh) i'm just starting to feel kind of pained by the generalization and need to separate "cute japanese girl in an otome game"/"japanese boy finds a harem in another world" from "korean girl dies and comes back as a villainess" bc they are just! applications to the same story device!!

recommendations for any who makes it this far down below <3

// also gladly recommend any of the examples i've listed in the above rant as i've read/watched all of them and adore them v much! //

save me princess

super refreshing fantasy manhwa ft. a princess and her ex-boyfriend having to save the world!

the beginning after the end

an AMERICAN web novel turned into a comic (but see it being not korean/japanese doesn't really matter when you just consider isekai as a genre...isn't it nice to not overthink it?) ft. a super-powerful wizard king reincarnated into another world and starting from scratch--gives mushoku tensei vibes but huge twists!

the reason why raeliana ended up at the duke's mansion

love love LOVE this story--read the title and you'll learn how this girl reincarnated as the character raeliana in a book gets married to a duke!

trash of the count's family

such a good novel!! a guy gets reborn as a lazy oaf and he takes the hero of the story under his wing...plot twists come up later on!

this time i will definitely be happy!

v good and refreshing for a shorter series! she's been reborn 3 times and remembers every time the hero's stabbed her in the back, and now she just wants to break up with him!

silver diamond

older manga but v good adventure w intrigue! a boy who loves plants get sucked into a desert world with demonic lizards and a mysterious bodyguard by his side. shonen-ai not BL but wonderful vibes nonetheless + great side characters!

the princess imprints a traitor

adore everything in this from the world (not in that way this society makes me so angry) to the machinations at play and the dynamic between the fl and ml

#isekai #mother's basement #inuyasha #digimon #fushigi yugi #.hack//legend of the twilight #log horizon #overlord #the saint's magic power is omnipotent #the white cat's revenge as plotted from the dragon king's lap #a returner's magic should be special #adonis #the lady and the beast #light and shadow #kumo desu ga nani ka #her majesty's swarm #fiance's observation log of a self-proclaimed villainess #death is the only ending for a villainess #the villainess wants to marry a commoner #save me princess #the beginning after the end #the reason why raeliana ended up at the duke's mansion #trash of the count's family #this time i will definitely be happy! #silver diamond #see i normally put the raw titles for everything but the tiny korean/japanese part of my brain is so tired bc my english brain went off #the princess imprints a traitor #manga #manhwa #donghua

[bashhowardproductions]

Is Din in a Cult? An Exploration

After Season 2 of the Mandalorian, there has been a lot of debate regarding whether or not Din’s sect of Mandalorianism(?) is a cult, especially after the comment in The Heiress, which Bo-Katan says “Children of The Watch are a cult of religious zealots that broke away from Mandalorian society.” 

Enough people on this site seem to be familiar with Bo-Katan, and her actions, and take this comment as baseless, even going far enough to claim it’s a parallel to religious intolerance. Luckily, that doesn’t matter!! We have enough information about his religious beliefs to make our own assessment, without taking the word of another character who has varying amounts of trustworthiness(again, I didn’t watch the animated series. but also again, that shouldn’t matter).

I’m going to be working off of cultresearch.org ‘s page, “ Characteristics Associated With Cults”. Mind you, not all of these will apply, since they are for real life, practical application, and not for a fictional universe. I will only reference things that have happened in The Mandalorian, and in The Original Trilogy.

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished?

-Yes, in “The Sin”, when the fight breaks out.

The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel.

-Yes. However, one could make the case that it’s for safety.

The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members.

-Yes. Obviously religion plays a different role in the Star Wars universe than it does in real life, but the Tribe has a certain level of elitism, mostly against other factions of Mandalorians. 

The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality.

-This is a big one. They feel this way against everyone. Not just empire, but New Republic, and literally any other organization.

The leader is not accountable to any authorities.

-I’m throwing this one out, due to political turmoil

The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence members. Often this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

-Yes, especially seen in “The Sin”. Paz Vizsla shames Din for accepting an Imperial job, and attempts to remove him from the covert for doing so. 

The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

-This one’s a little awkward. No, the Tribe isn’t handing out pamphlets on the road, but they certainly are very okay with adopting children and indoctrinating them.

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

-This is another awkward one. Star Wars itself is a very goal oriented series, so we’re not incredibly familiar what down time looks like for anyone, besides Mr. Toche Station, but when he has down time in the series, when he still HAS the covert, he spends his time there. And of course, he’s only hunting in order to provide for the covert. 

Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

-Yes. It’s only until his covert is destroyed that Din begins to associate with non-Mandalorians. Even then, once he begins his task, his first priority is to find other Mandalorians to help him, rather than exhaust his current social circles.

The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave— or even consider leaving—the group.

-This is how Din feels for the majority of the series, until “The Rescue”. His identity is so tied to his Tribe that he can’t fathom what would happen if he left.

How are people who left the group treated? What is said about them? Will the group give you names of people who left? Both those who were satisfied and those who were not?

-This is the big one. Din is adopted and takes the Creed as a child, as he explains to Omera in “The Sanctuary”. The implication being, if he didn’t, he would have lost the people that took him in after his parents died. That’s manipulative as hell. Why not wait until they’re 18? A case could be made for the fact that they went into hiding, and needed to make sure they could trust the Foundlings wouldn’t leave and give away their positions etc, but it’s still heinous to adopt children and force them into a restrictive religion under the threat of abandonment. 

Are former members willing to speak about their experiences? How do they evaluate their time with the group or person?

-Throwing this one out

What is the process for filing complaints? Is there a feedback mechanism that is real and honored? Are complaints made public? Is there a money-back guarantee?

-Throwing this one out

Are your questions answered directly? Are you told time and again to listen to your heart and not your head? Are you told that you are too new, too uninformed, too nosy, and so on, and shouldn’t be asking such questions?

-Now this ones tricky. We don’t see anyone ask a question that isn’t answered, but an assumption could be made based on how clueless Din seems to be about certain things, like other Mandalorian factions, Jedi, etc. 

Is there a leader who appears to be the ultimate authority, spokesperson? Are his or her views challenged by others? Must the leader’s opinion be accepted without question?

-Using the Armorer as the spokesperson, no. Although, we never see someone challenge her besides Paz, and it seems like he was in the wrong. 

Is more than one point of view presented? Are other points of view recognized? Are other points of view seen as valid but different?

-Absolutely not, and that’s a big thing that people forget. It’s not like Din says “I keep my face covered because that is how I follow the Creed, but your form is acceptable too,” to Bo-Katan or Boba. He is fully under the assumption that they are Wrong and he is Right. He comes to terms with them, but he still doesn’t respect their beliefs. 

What kind of commitment is expected? In time, money, lifestyle changes?

-All three. Until the covert is destroyed, Din’s entire existence hinges on providing for the Covert. That’s why he’s a hunter, that’s where all of his extra money goes, and his lifestyle is entirely dictated by the Creed. 

Does it appear that there are secrets? Is information restricted in any way? Is there some information that you are told must not be shared with outsiders? Is there information that you’re told you can’t get until you’re a member of the group or reached a certain level?

-Yes, information is restricted. To be fair, Luke didn’t know at the beginning of ANH what the Jedi were or what the force is, but presumably in 9 ABY, at least SOMETHING is going around about the Jedi that destroyed the Death Star. Hell, the New Republic’s greeting is “May the Force be With You”, meaning some semblance of Force-knowledge is circulating. Additionally, based on his reaction to Bo-Katan and Co, we can guess the Armorer never tells him about other Mandalorian sects.

This is not a checklist by any means, and it’s not definitive, but based on these guidelines, I’m going to go ahead and say it’s a cult. Of course, now that he’s broken the Creed, this might all be proven wrong if he finds another member of his covert, but from what we’ve seen in the Mandalorian, it’s not looking good. 

#the mandalorian #din djarin #the armorer #boba fett #bo-katan kryze #long post

[bts-ficrecs]

Namjoon angst fic recs (no smut)

@ephyra16​​ asked: 

Hey...! Your blog is of so much help to me, thank you for all the hard work you do... I wanted to ask if you know any long Namjoon oneshots or series which mostly have angst but no smut...? Namjoon centered fics are really hard to find. Thanks!!

yes hello for some reason tumblr hates me and idk why everything gets wonky when i try to answer asks so i’m making a new post <3

1) as a jin stan i feel u. is hard to find fics for our mans but that just means when we find one we devour it and cherish it 4 ever lol

2) jsdflajsd you might have more luck asking someone else for straight up angst cause i can barely stomach angst LOL. I tried my best to find some heart breaky fics for you! :”) A majority of these I have not yet read so we will both be riding the emo train together.

As you requested, most of the oneshots are long fics, over 5k but! There are several honorable mentions under 5k are also listed cause they’re great

Thank you for your patience and I’m glad you’re enjoying the fics I reblog! :D so many great stories out there. as always, if there’s a fic that any of you readers think should be on this list lmk!! 🧡🧡 Enjoy!~

 

 

A Little Bit Of Sugar by @lthyl​​

Summary: Namjoon is well aware that some, well actually most people could find his hobby not exactly common, yet he still considers himself to be a man of tasteful words and higher intellect - someone who managed to understand the true, deepest meaning of beauty itself. And so he doesn’t really care if his methods of collecting pretty things end up being darker that expected, once you peek under the surface.

Almost Love by @joonary​​

Summary: You think you’ve got your life all figured out—after all, you found your soulmate already, and you’re lucky enough to have found him in your childhood best friend. You suppose that maybe, now that you’re older, your luck has begun to run out.

Better To Have Loved by @rkivenamu​​

Summary: Love, Namjoon had found, wormed its way though people, consumed them whole until it left nothing of the people they had once been. It became a weapon to be used to wound the other. Love, it seemed, was the worst thing that had ever happened to him.

Bloom by @hobidreams​​

Summary: Family is who you kill for. Who you die for. In this society, you and your kin are shadows, clinging to the darkness to obey orders absolute. But when such orders command you to abandon what little honor remains for wealth and notoriety, you find yourself lost in lonely uncertainty about the only vocation you’ve ever known. That is, until you meet a man with gentle hands, a poet’s heart, and a love for coaxing the world into bloom.

Note: okay, this has smut (there are 2 smut scenes) but… it is too good for me to not add to this list

Breathless by @personawife​​

Summary: Jungkook was eleven when it had begun. At first, he didn’t realize what was happening to him when he had miraculously coughed up a flower petal. He thought that maybe it had accidentally blown into his mouth with the wind, but then he realized that there were no cherry blossom trees around his house.

Pairing: Namjoon x Jungkook

Catching Fire by @namjoonchronicles​​

Summary: “If you didn’t want to go, then you should have told me. I wouldn’t have taken you here.”

Cut by @chimchimsauce​​ (>5k)

Summary: Namjoon always hated soulmates.

Chasing Perfection by @shuaffeine-rkive​​

Summary: Kim Namjoon is the only kid in AP Bio that is smarter than me, and I will make it a point to destroy his perfect record.

Emancipated by @imagniation​​

Summary: CEO!Namjoon is a hero time and time again when your father takes the villain role.

Five Times by @lordofassgard​​

Summary: Five times you wished you never met Namjoon.

Sequel (of sorts): Part 2 - Namjoon's POV

For All the Petals by @rosaetae​​ (>5k)

Summary: A story in which you met him in the spring, fell in love with him in the summer, but he left you in autumn and how you missed him in the winter.

Forget Me Not by @fairyjeons​​

Summary: She fell apart that day. An all white day with crowds of adoring friends and family to see them make the most happiest decisions of their lives, to choose to be together. She chose yes. He chose different.

Ghost In The Machine by @jimlingss​​

Summary: Kim Namjoon is your android that’s modified to become the best serial killer in all of existence. But when he starts to learn about humanity, he begins to threaten your goals.

God of Destruction by @jimlingss​

Summary: Everything he touches breaks; except for you.

Jealous by @btssmutgalore​​ (>5k)

Summary: Namjoon remembered the day you left clearly.

Lit Me Up by @floralseokjin​​

Summary: You find yourself becoming captivated by a mysterious, handsome author, but you may have bitten off more than you can chew…

No Goodbye by @floralseokjin​ (>5k)

Summary: Even if you’re the one who ended things, you can still feel pain. Your heartbreak is valid. Your sadness for the past is a grieving process…

Noble Gain and Loss by @jaeminlore​​ (>5k)

Summary: You are a person of nobility preparing with your tutor for your royal debut. The two of you fall into a forbidden love.

Not The One by @personawife​​ (>5k)

Summary: Maybe you should’ve realized early on then, that something was bound to go wrong. Meeting your soulmate at sixteen and living happily ever after? No one’s that lucky. But you refused to believe anything else.

Paracosm by @jimlingss​ (>5k)

Summary: Namjoon’s always known he was your second choice. He was a substitute for someone who wasn’t there. So when you’re on your deathbed, he intends to reconstruct your memories and remove your regrets.

Press Play by @out-of-jams​​

Summary: You didn’t mean to. Didn’t intend to fall in love with a dying man.

Submerged by @myfeelsinink​​

Summary: Kim Namjoon is the man of your dreams; or rather, from your dreams.

Suspended Soul by @justimajin​​

Summary: A silver ring, a live long promise, and an eternity of happiness. All of which, he had managed to break.

The what Ifs by @ellieljade​​ (>5k)

Summary: You would be able to handle the relationship between Namjoon and your best friend if it weren’t for all those damned “what ifs”

Wishf-oo-l by @sseudanym (>5k)

Summary: To fulfill a good man’s bad dream.

Worshipers of the Soul by @jimlingss​

Summary: The King of the Underworld was denounced and exiled from Heaven as a god. But with your help, he may rise to power once more and claim his rightful throne.

You’ve Got That by @mikrksmos​​

Summary: After making a life-changing decision for your career, you’re unsure of how exactly to bring it up to your boyfriend after your relationship and communication has not really been in sync. Namjoon is ready to take this relationship to the next stage, and he is sure that what he needs to ask you will be the solution to all the problems you have been having. Both know this next move is the right idea, but are unaware of how parallel those ideas really are.

 

 

Confirm Or Deny by @dinoyoongi​​

Status: complete series (6/6)

Summary: You’re a member of the rising group FRNZEE. You’ve been dating Namjoon for years when Dispatch releases an article exposing your relationship. Your company confirms the relationship. Big Hit denies it.

Deeper than Ink by @whoajeon​​

Status: discontinued series (2/?)

Summary: Should you fall in love with someone, even in the slightest, your skin becomes marked with vibrant colors that depict the story of your emotions. A tattoo, per say. However, should they or you fall out of love, the bright hues dull to black and the feelings you once had for each other melt away. To many, it’s a blessing to not have to live with the pain of your past. But what’s the point when you have too many reminders–say 27?

His Deaf Stars by @jooneos​​

Status: discontinued series (1/?)

Summary: When Namjoon turned 20 he had been excited to finally find his soulmate. He hadn’t anticipated that finding them would prove to be such a long journey. Now, more than 500 years later Namjoon still hadn’t found them.

Note: ok, yes it’s discontinued and only 1 part is up but still… please read it. It’s an interesting read regardless!

Inked by @kookswife​​

Status: complete series (6/6)

Summary: The day Namjoon entered your life was the day you were a bit more than utterly fucked.

Monster by @wordycerty​​

Status: ongoing series (1/?)

Summary: Namjoon as a vampire and you’re locked in a basement with him. For you to escape, he first needs to feed.

Noble Heart by @agustkive​​

Status: ongoing series (1/?)

Summary: Unrequited love can destroy anyone, and in a society where it could literally do so, it made it difficult to want anything more. Being among the population with Hanahaki disease, you battled with doing what you loved without actually feeling it. That is, until a new florist by the name of Kim Namjoon came into your life to remind you of what it actually felt like.

Reality by @thoughtssilent​​

Status: ongoing series (11/12)

Summary: Namjoon can’t deal with himself anymore, and to make things worse, BTS is disbanding.

Pairing: Namjoon x OT7

Regrets by @nightbts​​

Status: complete series (3/3)

Summary: When his eyes met yours, you felt your heart squeeze in your chest at the familiar brown eyes that you once used to know at the back of your hand. The very ones you’d wake up to every morning. The very ones that would gaze at you with so much affection as the words I love you spilled past his mouth during the most random moments of your day. It was him, your ex-boyfriend, the very Kim Namjoon.

Solanacea by @softjeon​​

Status: complete series (10/10)

Summary: There was something between them that neither could deny. It was like this from the first day they had met.

Pairing: Namjoon x Jimin

The Heiress’ Son by @jimlingss​

Status: complete series (3/3)

Summary: Love is never enough. It could never feed you, protect you, stop death from taking you. It chains you down. It compels forgiveness unconditionally. It is dangerous. While it is the most intense of feelings, love is not enough and it will never be. Love never helped anyone.

What If I Said by @thoughtssilent​​

Status: complete series (3/3)

Summary: If no one is there for him, Namjoon won't be there for them. Or, a collection of sad stories.

Pairing: Namjoon x OT7

#namjoon angst #namjoon fanfic #bts fic recs #rm angst #bts angst #ephyra16 #g recs #g replies #f:knj

[theexistentiallyqueer]

I would like to hear what you have to say about p5r

Oof so like–bearing in mind that I can’t understand Japanese, did not watch most of the livestream, and very much believe we all need to calm our takes down until the English release comes out so we have a better understanding of what is actually happening yadda yadda yadda–

I’m excited. I’m very excited. It looks really really good. They really dug into the meat of Goro’s character and served us a supreme fucking feast in that respect, and I’m very glad for that. His confidant is amazing, from what we can get from reading @lokiarsene‘s translations. His very central role in third trimester arc is excellent. The way Kasumire and Takuto are integrated into the stories of the existing cast rather than dominating them, a la Marie from P4G (also bearing in mind I haven’t played P4G but that’s the general impression I’ve gotten of the game), is also excellent. Additions should comment on what is already there.

I’m disappointed Atlus seems to be going for a Big Tease about whether Goro survives in the end. I know exactly why they’re doing it–so they can string us along and hype up Scramble–but I hate that they’re doing it. I get that they claim Scramble is a direct sequel but like….is it? Is it really? My money is on Goro and Sumire being DLC characters for that game.

When I say “shuake canon now,” I’m saying it with the exact same degree of belief as when I say that I personally am a Hugo award winner because I have fanfiction posted on AO3. Shuake is unfortunately not canon, because Atlus are a bunch of cowards. I haven’t played Catherine so I can’t speak to how well they handle Vincent’s relationship with Rin in that game, but the fact that they let players date Rin, a crossdresser, in Catherine, but don’t let you date any of the guys in Royal is….not a good look for Atlus. We’ve been very clearly and very successfully queerbaited, and I can both acknowledge that and make fun of Atlus for accidentally coding Akira’s relationship with Goro as so heavily romantic that you really can compare it to Shinji and Kaworu or Utena and Anthy or Madoka and Homura, but at the end of the day if Atlus were allies (and they’re not), they’d have cut those gross predatory gay men who hit on Akira and Ryuji on not just one but TWO occasions.

I will not give Atlus credit that Atlus categorically does not deserve.

I’m seeing a lot of valid criticism of the game as well. The addition of cognitive Shiho in a bunny costume to Kamoshida’s boss fight is fucking disgusting and I want to personally destroy the career of whatever jackass came up with that idea and also whatever other jackass approved it. Ryuji still gets beat up by the girls after Shido’s palace collapses, because haha, female on male violence is harmless and funny. You can still be an absolute dick to Mishima. 

Most frustrating for me is that Haru remains criminally underdeveloped and it looks like hers and Futaba’s feelings about Goro aren’t really explored with remotely any degree of what I would personally consider nuance (and believe me, as someone whose father was murdered, I have a very low bar where that’s concerned because nuance on that subject is not a thing most media is capable of). There also doesn’t seem to be much direct acknowledgement from Goro (going off of what @lokiarsene has already translated and posted and also told me while she’s working on future translations) of the very personal hell he put Futaba and Haru through, which I would again stress–I have a low bar where that’s concerned.

What I’m most interested in is how the third trimester arc is focused on mental health, specifically mental health care, a thing for which Japan is famously garbage at managing. Given that the Persona franchise is one of the few examples of overt Japanese counter-culture we get access to in the West (in that the games are openly critical of some pretty major aspects of Japanese society), I’m curious to see the extent to which Maruki’s arc critiques the Japanese mental health system. Is it just going to be about shitty malpractice? Is it going to comment on how mental illness and neurodivergency are just covered up and shut away? Is it going to talk about how when people do go to doctors, they usually just get prescribed medication as a band-aid but therapy is basically nonexistent in any meaningful widespread form?

Given the Persona series’s track record, Royal seems to be pretty par for the course: a flawed mixed bag with some really solid writing and some really glaring blind spots, if not abject failures. From what I’ve seen of Royal, I think the solid bits weigh out the not so solid bits, at least for me personally. I look forward to engaging with the finished product in a language I can understand and then picking it all to pieces with everyone else on here, come March.

#persona #p5r spoilers #suspendedemotion #thanks for coming to my teq talk

[comicteaparty]

March 23rd-March 29th, 2020 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from March 23rd, 2020 to March 29th, 2020.  The chat focused on Puppeteer by Eightfish.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on Puppeteer by Eightfish~! (https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/puppeteer/list?title_no=290620)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace until March 29th, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Discussions are freeform, but we do offer discussion prompts in the pins for those who’d like to have them. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic! Whether you finish the comic or can only read a few pages, everyone is welcome to join and chat with us!

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 1

1. What did you like about the beginning of the comic?

2. What has been your favorite moment in the comic (so far)?

3. Who is your favorite character?

4. Which characters do like seeing interact the most?

5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it!

6. What is a theme you like that the comic explores?

7. What do you like about the comic’s story or overall related content?

8. Overall, what do you think the comic’s strengths are?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

eli [a winged tale]

Ooh exciting! I’ll try and get to this soon!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yes yes, I had started reading this last week, want to continue and get in on this convo!!

Joichi / Sarah

Oh I'll take a look at reading Puppeteer!

shadowhood

Ditto. Time for another art binge

eli [a winged tale]

1) I love the colours and lighting! As for the story, the banter really drew me in and when J offered freedom, that was my hook 2) My favourite moment was when J tore Eli out of his body! That was a very striking moment. 3) I really like J and Sam They’re both characters with a strong voice and motivation. 4) I enjoy the friendship chat between Sam and Eli. They really ground the whole college experience and the comic world for me. 5) Let me find it! 6) I think the themes of feeling lost in life or directionless after regimented high school are very relatable. It’s one thing to know where you wanna go and want to be but often we feel we’re just floating in reality. 7) I love the aesthetics! Very unique style yet also clear in storytelling! 8) I would say the strengths tie into the fast pace and great characters. I’m not sure where we’re headed in the comic but I’m sure we will get to know why beings like J and the Ocean lady exist and what roles Eli/Sam would play in the story great work Eightfish!

Love this shot! Great paneling!

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

The artwork is so beautiful!

shadowhood

Yeah, the flow of motion is amazing here that's really good gesture drawing

Feather J. Fern

I have to say I love the way you do the limited palette for the first few pages, it's really cool!

mathtans

Oh! From setup to where some f/f romance is implied. I shall read more. (Nice when the ships are verging on canon, if not there...)

Wonder if J is going to set things up such that Eli has to possess one of them.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Aaa, thank you all for the compliments about my art, eli, sssfrs, shadow, feather. I'm really trying to make this thing look good and I'm glad you guys like it.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

It looks really good!!

eli [a winged tale]

Love it Eightfish! Can’t wait for more!

RebelVampire

What I liked about the beginning is just kind of how jarring it is (in a good way). You get thrown right into a semi-tense/suspicious interaction, and it really kind of sets that tone for the rest of the comic. Which is actually what I like about the story all together. There's always this kind of laid back atmosphere to it where you're never really sure if you should be concerned or not. So it's got this right beat where you aren't always screaming but also aren't ever able to fully relax cause it feels like danger is around the corner. Coincidentally, the beginning is also probably my favorite moment in the comic as well, just cause again, I really love the tone here. My favorite character at the moment is probably J cause I can't figure J out and would like to know more about J. Cause J is just like this chaotic entity who I can't decide is good or evil and it's a complicated mess that I love. As for favorite interactions, definitely Eli and J. I like they're kind of friends, kind or enemies, kind of maybe sort of abusive relationship, maybe kind of sort of cut from the same fabric. There's a lot of levels to their relationship, so I do like seeing where it's going to go.

What I like about the art is just the overall style combined with the color experimentation. I think this in of itself really helps with the tone I keep mentioning, because it'll go from normal colors to suddenly very jarring, dark contrasts. So again, there's always this hint that something just isn't ever right in the world. I also think these features are the comic's strength, since it's a very interesting style that draws the eye.

Lastly for today, themes. I really like that the comic kind of explores ambition vs. lack of ambition. As someone who is more similar to Eli and would be kind of happy to just be people watching mush sometimes, I really relate. However, there are deep questions about whether this is good, whether ambition is better or whether ambition can go too far. So it's kind of good to see this explored and just kind of show that inevitably, people are different and not everyone has the same sorts of drives (or drives at all).

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh my god, you have no idea how happy I am to read that. Everything you said was exactly what I was going for and this is very validating

(also, can we just appreciate Rebel for a moment. They take the time to write these in depth analyses of every comic here and I always enjoy reading them. Even if I knew rebel was going to be the only one in this book club I would still be jumping to sign up.) (Not that I don't appreciate everyone else, those comments were lovely as well haha. So interesting to to read eli's thoughts on the characters and what will happen next)(edited)

BriDanann

Also!! Eightfish!! Your comic is so freaking gorgeous! I absolutely love the color scheme and the surrealist feel the art gives off. It really feels like it's otherworldly, but also familiar. Kind of how old Noir movies felt! I've only read the beginning so far and I am loving the tone.

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 2

9. Will Eli actually be satisfied with his decision to just float around away from responsibility in the long term, or do you think that will change? Additionally, what do you think caused Eli to run away from life so much?

10. Do you think Sam will ever come to accept Eli’s decisions, and how will the situation change the two’s relationship? What will Eli teach Sam about trying to fix everything, and how will the two change each other through their interactions?

11. What do you think J ultimately wants in life, and what does that have to do with giving Eli powers? Why is Sam so convinced that J is a demon? In general, do you think Eli, Sam, and Lily can put a stop to J’s mayhem?

12. How do you interpret the story’s title in terms of its significance to the events of the comic? Also, what significance do you think it has towards the theme of beliefs and how beliefs go stronger the more people believe in them?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

mathtans

(This week is kinda kicking my ass but I have finished the read and will find time for some comments in the next day or two. Just putting that out there.)

Okay, just a couple quick thoughts in case anyone else wants to react to them... I think Eli felt like there wasn't much of anything left to him. Didn't seem like he had family checking up on him, and major events like breaking your arm are the sorts of times you learn who's rallying around you. Sam distancing herself was probably the last straw.

I wonder a bit whether Vanessa (the one massively possessed by J, only name dropped in the author notes if memory serves) had a similar path. Or whether she's just off the deep end (maybe she pushed J into the arm breaking on some level).

Also think that Lily's pleased to have someone who can finally do something about the visions she's presumably been having all her life (unless it's a puberty awakening thing), though it does seem like her romance with Sam goes deeper than that. I wonder about her romantic history (but then I wonder about that with all f/f ships). And could Sam be bi? Or is she not straight, and part of that is what pulled her from Eli?

As I say, couple quick thoughts.

RebelVampire

@mathtans Those are some good points about Eli's family. I have to say I did kind of where they were at, cause at the very least I do get the impression Eli doesn't feel like they can be relied on. But I do think isolation is playing a big role in Eli's decision making right now.

Do I think Eli will actually be satisfied with his decision? Yes and no. I kind of feel like Eli would be fine with it overall but that inevitably extenuating circumstances will ruin the whole thing. Otherwise I honestly think Eli might be content if people around would accept it. As for why Eli is causing to run away from life, probably social pressure and isolation. It's hard to deal with life if you have no one around you, and also hard to deal with society when you really just don't have ambitions, cause society is very much about ambition. As for Sam, I think this is also a yes and a no. I think Sam will blame herself for Eli's choices as she comes to understand them more, but at the same time learn to let Eli live as Eli sees fit. I do think Sam will learn a valuable lesson though that not everything she thinks is broken is, and even if it is, sometimes people have to learn for themselves. So I think it'll bring Eli and Sam closer.

As for what J wants, I think it's probably friends. I think J fell in with Eli because they're both just kind of lonely souls. And while Eli expresses this in further isolation, J acts out and does everything possible to get attention. I do think the group will put a stop to J's shenanigans though, but I'm also feeling that it won't be a defeating of the villain (but this may be wishful thinking cause I do sympathize with J). I kind of get the feeling the title is meant to reflect both literally that J is turning people into puppets but also the complicated relationship people have with the concept of control. Like Sam for example. Sam clearly wants to fix and "control" things to suit them to how she wants. Also, in the Eli/J relationship, there's a question of who controls who to a degree. As for its connection to belief, I think I'd argue the strong our beliefs are in something, the more those beliefs have control of our lives. And I think that's something we once again see with J a lot in that J is literally controlling people while people seem convinced they control themselves.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh Rebel, mathtans, your comments make me just want to just spoil the entire story and blurt out everything right here. It's been so good seeing that so much of my intent was coming through.

@mathtans Sam is indeed not straight. I wonder what made you see her as bisexual specifically?(edited)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

I don’t think Sam had any malicious intent in keeping her distance from Eli, nor was it a case of “I’ve got a girlfriend now so I don’t need to talk to my other friends”. To me, Sam very much sees herself as the only one with the power to protect people, and because of that she feels it’s her duty to control what people get involved, where everyone goes, etc. Sam can keep this city under control, and thus she must. And, yeah, I agree with @RebelVampire that control is one of the main themes of the comic in general. Like J is constantly egging Eli on to control others, and one of their main points is that ordinary people often are looking to delegate control to someone else. And this current segment is the perfect lesson on how it doesn’t have to be one person in control - Eli and Sam can both be in control at once.(edited)

One thing I feel like should be mentioned though - the factor of Eli potentially being nb factoring into his decision? Like, when he first becomes a puppetmaster, one of the first things Eli says is “how come I still look like me” (i.e., rather than androgynous like J?), and one of the things Eli does to practice out shape shifting is try on dresses.

mathtans

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Oh, nothing specifically made me see Sam as bisexual, but nothing made me see her as exclusively lesbian either. I've learned not to take that stuff for granted and wait for it be be spelled out (I'm also not the most observant though). In fact I have a f/f relationship in my writing where one of them is stated bisexual.

Also, good point snuffy on the androgynous aspect, never occurred to me there.

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 3

13. What are you most looking forward to seeing in regards to the comic?

14. Any final words of encouragement for the comic?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

mathtans

Okay, let's address some questions to the best of my abilities. ^.^ Regarding the start, as was mentioned, the muted colours and dark character seemed to fit the tone. I thought the cutaway was a time skip but it made sense when we came back later.

My favourite moment was actually when Sam and Lily spent the night in Eli's apartment. Aside from helping to confirm the f/f relation (a personal taste), it was subtle (like, just a friend wouldn't necessarily go along with things for that time) versus making out or something (which wouldn't fit the tone). And at the same time, it showed that Eli was separating himself from his past life, not even going back to check in... Sam honestly seems to be his only tie. (And I kinda wonder where his original body is, if it even exists?)

Favourite character is tough. Honestly, maybe Lily because she seems so innocent, having been drawn into things... and I wonder if J ever approached her to get to Sam? Or has the focus always been on Eli? It's not that I dislike the other characters, it's more that one of their flaws seems to be a lack of communication. The sort of thing that makes me sigh, even though it fits with what we've seen and is helping motivate the plot.

That said, yeah the Sam and Eli interactions are really good, right from the moment of "don't touch me" and Sam totally respected that as they got caught up. They obviously do care for each other in the friend way. (I wonder if Eli wanted more? Could that be why he shifted female, to be closer to Sam?)

I'm not good with art or themes. -.- The way the being in the harbour was drawn was good though from what I recall, helped to show the scope of the supernatural too. I guess a theme of belonging? Or friendship?

I haven't said much about J yet, but I think that is a something I like and a strength, the plotting... trying to guess the next move. And maybe they want to become as popular as the larger demon? Definitely drives the other characters forwards. And reminds me of Rebel's comment about ambition being a theme... makes sense in retrospect. (And yes, much appreciation to Rebel. ^.- )

9. I think Eli will eventually be satisfied, though I think he's realizing that he's becoming a bit of a pawn in a larger game, not having considered the scope of his transformation. And I already mentioned about his family. And Rebel made good points there too.

I think Sam's starting to accept the change, though not necessarily the reason for it (and I'm not sure she or we truly know what that is). What with her trusting him to possess. In fact, another reason why Eli might have done this was to be of more use to Sam, though that may not have been a conscious decision. The dynamic will be interesting.

Here I'm diverging from Rebel in that I think J wants to be recognized as a more important demon (though that's similar to having friends, it doesn't need to be). Maybe others have tried to take over beings like Sam without success? Or like Ocean Lady are so far above that they don't care? Maybe there's a clue somewhere in why Vanessa isn't enough for J lately.

That's a really interesting point in terms of the title... at first I figured it was the idea of Eli jumping into bodies. But of course, he's not really into that, and it's more J... who is perhaps puppeteering even beyond that, pulling the strings of people that aren't possessed. (There was mention of squid too, I wonder if the tentacles of a squid could be like the strings on a puppet?) Anyhue.

Will be interesting to see Lily's reaction to what's going on, as I have a suspicion that she'll show up... and perhaps blame herself for not being there when Eli was (even though Eli was brought in later). Or she could misinterpret the situation and think Eli's gone evil! Who knows. (How long has she been going out with Lily again?)

I think that's all for now. Best with it!

shadowhood

Yoooo sorry for the late response. Alright I'll try to answer the prompts as succinctly as I can. 1. The art style is very aesthetically pleasing! I love how you use mainly black against a lot of other bright colours like tan/light blue/gold; it gives it almost a Grecian vase vibe!

2. I have two actually!

The first one because it hit a really close hit to home. I loved seeing a real, down to earth conversation between friends and it felt...real. Seeing concerned friends talking about an abusive relationship and not....exploding is very refreshing.

The second one because I absolutely love that last panel, where J plays around with her words and follows through with a similar action. It felt like she was toying with Sam and it reminded me of the scene in Aladdin, where Jafar was toying with Aladdin with his words. Probably my favourite villain scene of J.

3. Funnily enough, I really like Sam. She's that one friend who's shown to be concerned for Eli, but she knows that she can't force him out of the abusive relationship. She respects his boundaries and is overall a good friend. That's rare and usually underappreciated in real life.

4. The interactions between Sam and Eli were the best for me, because they were very heartwarming and the care they show for each other resonates with me

5. The two moments I mentioned were my top favourites, actually!

6. The idea that you can't save everyone is one I really like. Sometimes you have to let the person you love make difficult and maybe even foolhardy decisions in life, but that's to let them grow up and mature.

7. Like I said earlier, it reminded me of Grecian vase paintings, which I love! Another thing I love about it is how free the gesture drawings are; drawings such as the hand drawings are testament to that

8. I think the strongest part of Puppeteer is its use of motion; my eye is always drawn to the line of action and it almost felt like a film at some parts. The story is heavily action oriented, which I like

shadowhood

9. Honestly, I don't know. Like @mathtans said, he doesn't seem to have family who check up on him, but he DOES have friends who do! Maybe someday he'll want to change, he'll see that he stayed stagnant while his friends keep on progressing in life. Either he'll go deeper into his isolation or he ultimately decides that this isn't for him. 10. I think it's a sad case where she's going to have to learn to let Eli make his mistakes and grow up. If she's constantly there to fix or solve everything for him, both characters suffer in that no one will learn everything. But hopefully, like other people have said, it brings them closer. 11. From what she's said, I think she wants control and power. But if you want a more indepth answer, I think she wants absolute control and worship from individuals. She wants to be put on a pedestal (wanting to be higher than other people?) and she wants that rush of feeling, that feeling of being dedicated to. But seeing @RebelVampire 's answer, maybe it's a twisted form of trying to keep people from leaving her, similar to how abusers try to keep their victims close. Heck, she could even develop a form of Lima syndrome and sympathize with the victim. I think Sam's and co. can put a stop to it, but ultimately, it's up to ELI himself to do so. 12. I agree with @RebelVampire on this one; Puppeteer can be a reference to how much we let others and their beliefs control us, and how the characters each covet control in some shape or form. Maybe Eli feels like he's lost control of his life and is trying to escape responsibility in a desperate effort to regain it?

13. I'm really looking forward to how this whole Eli/J relationship will affect Eli and his relationship with his friends. I'm also wondering what J's character development would be, if any; would she start sympathizing more with Eli? Learn something new from Eli? Or even become increasingly antagonistic towards Eli? 14. @Eightfish (Puppeteer) I really look forward to reading more from your webcomic, your art and conversation exchanges between your characters are top notch! Keep up the good work

RebelVampire

What I'm most looking forward to in regards to the comic is finding out more about J I think. I'm interested to learn more about the driving force behind J's actions and how those might cause the characters to rethink what J is. As for final words, I really just still enjoyed the atmosphere. So few comics can nail it, but this one really managed to capture that feeling of dread that really keeps you reading. So I can wait to see that be used more throughout the comic.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Thanks @mathtans , @shadowhood , @snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights) for the recent long comments you've posted! It was wonderful reading what you thought about character motivations and themes. And I'm glad so many people said they were looking forward to learning more about J, because that's what I'm most looking forward to writing as well.

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about Puppeteer this week! Please also give a special thank you to Eightfish for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked Puppeteer, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/puppeteer/list?title_no=290620

Eightfish’s Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/eightfish

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #book club #bookclub #webcomic book club #webcomic bookclub #comic tea party #ctp #puppeteer #eightfish

[stardyng]

I love your blog as a Sansa and Jonsa fan, and I can’t help but see your Harry x Sansa opinions while perusing. I didn’t read the books, so my question is - why isn’t the ship more popular if indeed Harry seems like a good match? I’ve read that Harry is an ass, does his character evolve to be a worthy match for Sansa? And finally, how important do you think his role is if he doesn’t even exist in the show? Please get back to me when you have free time! I’d really love to read your thoughts :)

There’s a multitude of reasons why Harry Hardyng, and the pairing itself aren’t popular, and I am painfully aware of the reasons. There are essentially two main reasons for this. 

First of all, Harry is not only a book only character, but he and Sansa only had one conversation with each other in a unpublished chapter that you can find online. In order to read that chapter, you have to have read the five other books. This makes the pairing itself quite inaccessible compared to a lot of her other pairings. Therefore, the people who even know that Harry The Heir exist are already low enough, with many of them already wanting her to be paired off with another character by the time they read the latest Sansa chapter. 

Second of all, and this is one is going to hurt me, but Harry The Heir is a explicitly flawed character…or at least that’s what people seem to think based on what we know about him thus far. People have made elaborated essays on how terrible he is based on the little we know from him. Our introduction to him is him not wanting to have a walk with Sansa because she’s ‘’Littlefinger’s bastard’’, and later we come to find out that he has a child and another girl pregnant. He then proceeds to fat-shame one of his earlier lovers. So…a lot of people end up finishing that chapter really disliking him. I don’t blame them for their feelings, but I just don’t agree. 

However, I think that all of the characteristics and actions that people use in order to prove that he is a terrible person aren’t valid, because a lot of it ignores the fact that there is more to him, and the fact that he too was born and raised in the Westorosi society, and that the way he acts and the way he views certain things are impacted by that very fact. At the end of the day, a lot of Harry’s actions and thoughts can be understood if you acknowledge these two things. 

For starters, I think his negative reaction about having a walk with Sansa is not justified but understandable if we look at things from his perspective. He is forced into a match with a stranger who’s the daughter of a man he doesn’t like, and so he’s angry and says something that isn’t very nice. While he did use the slur ‘’bastard’’, I think that we should consider that perhaps, his problem wasn’t the fact that she was a bastard necessarily, but that he didn’t want to be engaged to anyone in the first place (he’s a 17 year old boy!!!) or simply the fact that she was Littlefinger’s child. It could also be the bastard thing, but to shame him for classism, when a lot of everyone’s favorite characters did or said classist things is completely unfair. They live in a society that promotes classist point of views, and most characters are in environments suffusing in classism. Jon, Catelyn and Sansa among many other protagonists in the story have said or thought things that are rather classist. 

Even when talking about the use of ‘’bastard’’ as a slur, we’ve seen a lot of sympathetic characters use it as well. Catelyn used it ( “I need none of your absolution, bastard.”), Tyrion used it numerous times, Arya used it (’’you’re nothing but a bastard boy!’’), Jaime used it, and Jon even used it as well (’’and we are coming for you, bastard.’’). To solely shame Harry for doing something that the majority of people in Westoros has done I think is rather unfair. 

With that out of the way, the whole situation with Harry The Heir, his sex life, and his own set of ‘’bastards’’ turn a lot of other people off. I’ve seen some people blatantly shame Harry for having sex which is a pretty terrible thing to do. I mean sure he could have use a contraceptive method, but him having casual sex on it’s own isn’t really that bad a thing. However, more people judge Harry in reason of the fact that they think he’s negligent of the women he has had sex with, and I disagree completely with that idea. 

Thing is that the women he has had sex with were not explicitly stated to be his lovers. They could very much just be people he has had casual sex with. This is what he has to say about the mother of his first child:

“Yes. Cissy was a pretty thing when I tumbled her, but childbirth left her as fat as a cow, so Lady Anya arranged for her to marry one of her men-at-arms. It is different with Saffron.” - Alayne I, TWOW

Well what I’m going to do is tell you had these things don’t mean. A lot of people like to say that he stopped being with Cissy because she was pregnant or became fat or some nonsense like that, when in reality, that isn’t stated anywhere. All that’s stated is that she became fat so Lady Anya arranged her to be with someone else. Harry The Heir wasn’t given a choice in any of this. He didn’t get to decide if we has going to stay with her or not. Shaming Harry for something that he didn’t get to decide is rather unfair. Plus, he knows what’s going on with the mother of his child, and the text implies that she is in a financially stable situation and is going to marry a man who will help her take care of the child. She’s completely fine and she doesn’t need him. 

Other people like to discredit him due to his fat shaming in this line. I would just like these people to get off their high horse that they’ve just decided to climb on. Several main protagonists in the story have made fat-shaming jokes or comments. Arya was not happy that she had to sit next to Tommen, ‘’the little fat one’’ instead of the comely prince Joffrey, Ned and Catelyn made some fun of Robert’s weight in the show, Arya called people ‘’grossly fat’’ numerous times, Jon describes Sam as the ‘’fat boy’’ in his head for a lot of his earlier chapters, Tyrion describes the High Septon as being ‘’ as fat as a house.’’, Olenna Tyrell, everyone’s favorite comedian makes a lot of fat-shaming comments and you could find a lot of other fat-shaming comments made by a multitude of characters both major and minor, both protagonists and antagonists in the series. Yet the only one seem to have a problem with is Harry which is completely is unfair, especially when unlike what people say, his comment wasn’t about him leaving her because she was fat, it was about Lady Anya giving her to someone specific because she was fat. 

Then, there’s the question of his second lover Saffron, who is also pregnant. The idea that he left his other lover because he’s negligent and is not willing to take care of his children is untrue not only because that was not the reason he was even separated from Cissy in the first place, but also because he is still around his second lover Saffron, who he has not said one negative thing about. He didn’t express any willingness to run away from her or anything. Therefore that bit of criticism is invalid as well. 

Therefore, at the end of the day, I think none of the things that people use as proof that he is supposedly an ass is valid. I mean sure, one of the minor characters seem to have reached that conclusion, but basing off what he has done and how he has acted with Sansa in their only conversation, I just don’t see it. It’s like how many of the characters in the story seem convinced that Sansa is stupid even though reading her chapters, she comes off as rather intelligent, except this time it’s Harry, who has been extremely respectful of Sansa, yet is apparently an ass. 

That brings me to the fact that Harry has treated Sansa far better than most of the characters in the story. Yes he initially dismissed her because she was Littlefinger’s daughter/bastard at first, but when they interacted later on, he was extremely courteous. He is her only possible love interest who not only apologized to her candidly for his previous actions (’’I was unforgivably rude to you in the yards…you must forgive me,’’), he actually changed his behavior after his apology unlike Tyrion or Ned, whose apology were simply justifications for their actions. Not only that but he called her pretty without being creepy about it, he has been completely honest with her even when she had asked extremely personal questions, he has absolutely no ulterior motives, he genuinely enjoy her as a person, laughs when she makes funny jokes and even complimented her intelligence. People act like he treats women like trash when he respected Sansa’s personal space and didn’t sexually harass her or objectify her in any manner, and even when he talked about his previous lover’s beauty, he was never objectifying or being creepy about it (“Saffron is very beautiful, I’ll have you know. Tall and slim, with big brown eyes and hair like honey.”)  

I think their interaction was really wonderful, because unlike so many of Sansa’s love interests, he actually genuinely respects her. He never dismissed what she had to say at the basis of her sex or anything like that. There’s also more personal reasons as to why I enjoy this ship. I think their dynamic is really enjoyable because I enjoy seeing Sansa tease him and make him blush and bewildered, and it’s evident to me that she is in complete control of the situation when they interact. Most of the times we’ve seen Sansa interact with another character, it’s that other character who is in control, and often use that control to do horrible things to her. However, in this situation, she not only has the agency, but he lets her have it. When she asks personal questions about his life, he answers. When she teases him and plays with him, he genuinely enjoys it. Like when she said he’s bad at conversation, he could have been all insulted, yet instead he laughs at her making fun of him. When she makes a suggestive comment, he grins. I don’t know how so many people can just dismiss the pairing when it’s so refreshing to see Sansa have such freedom in her relationship with someone else. 

So yeah, every criticism that people launch Harry’s way is invalid in my opinion. Some of them are blatantly false, a lot of them are baseless assumptions and others are things that so many of the other protagonists have done and said without as much criticism. I think that Harry has not been an ass to Sansa, and has been really courteous with her. Not only that, but he genuinely respects her and what she has to say unlike so many of the characters people want her to be with. To go even further, their dynamic is unlike every other Sansa dynamic that has some romantic vibes to them because she has a lot of freedom and agency in this particular relationship. I honestly can’t wait to see more of them together. 

#stardyng #sansaxharry #harry the heir #harry hardyng #harrold hardyng #asoiaf meta #sort off #sansa stark #sansa #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #i will elaborate on what I think will happen to him and his importance in another post #this post was already getting very long and that part of the question didn't fit with the rest #so i'll just be another post #anyways #stardyng rights y'all!!! #long post #asks

[letterboxd]

McCarthy.

“Give me a real character like Lee who’s complicated and irritating and smart.” Melissa McCarthy talks about her Oscar-nominated performance in the acclaimed true story Can You Ever Forgive Me?

In the media discussion building up to this year’s Academy Awards, the talking points have principally concerned decisions regarding the ceremony itself, leaving many of the nominated films somewhat overlooked in the conversation.

One triple-nominee very much worthy of discussion is Marielle Heller’s Can You Ever Forgive Me?, which received nominations for Best Adapted Screenplay (Nicole Holofcener & Jeff Whitty), Best Supporting Actor (the great Richard E. Grant) and Best Actress for Melissa McCarthy’s caustic and hilarious performance as real-life literary forger Lee Israel.

Based upon Israel’s memoir of the same title, Can You Ever Forgive Me? chronicles how the writer (of biographies of Estée Lauder and Tallulah Bankhead, among others) found herself out of favor and out of work in the ’90s New York literary world.

After discovering that letters by famous writers could be highly valuable to certain collectors, Israel took to forging correspondence by people like Dorothy Parker and Noël Coward, and selling the results via rare book stores.

In addition to profiting from the deception, the acerbic Israel also took considerable pride in her ability to capture her subjects’ trademark wit.

There aren’t many movies made about people like Lee Israel, and that’s what makes Can You Ever Forgive Me? so fascinating. The character fails all the obvious (and idiotic) “likability” standards that afflict many mainstream films: she’s an alcoholic misanthrope who lashes out at everyone around her. Yet she’s impossible to look away from, and we remain wholly invested in her throughout every bad decision.

Richard E. Grant co-stars in the film as Jack Hock, an acquaintance who becomes Lee’s friend, and eventually her collaborator, via their mutual affection for booze. More than one person has accurately observed that if you dim your eyes, Hock could easily be Withnail, thirty years later. His Oscar campaign has been one of the most gleeful joys of awards season, and a pleasing reward for an actor who was “told right from the get-go that I looked like a tombstone”.

Mostly taking place in a Manhattan of wood-lined taverns and fusty bookstores, and quietly celebrating some of the city’s longest lasting icons including Julius, the city’s oldest gay bar, Can You Ever Forgive Me? is a minor miracle of a film that represents a new level of achievement for McCarthy.

The Oscar nomination is not her first (she received a Best Supporting nod for Bridesmaids in 2012), but there’s a complexity to her performance here that makes it undeniably special.

Director Heller (The Diary of a Teenage Girl, and currently in production on the Tom Hanks biopic about Mr Rogers) joined McCarthy to discuss the film at a recent AFI event in Hollywood.

On what made Heller want to direct the film: Marielle Heller: I found Lee really refreshing. I feel like we have male [lead] characters who are assholes all the time and we find them to be the most interesting characters, and you never get to see women like that. And so there was something about her I just immediately went, ‘Yeah, we need more women like Lee’. Also, middle-aged women who kind of don’t fit into society’s norms. Childless, lesbian. She didn’t fit into the model of what we make movies about, and so I just thought there was something nice and radical to me about that. It shouldn’t be radical, but it felt really radical. There was something about the fact that her intellect and her work is so much more important than her appearance, that I loved. And that she’s genuinely the smartest person in every room, but no one gives her that credit.

Marielle Heller directs Melissa McCarthy on the set of ‘Can You Ever Forgive Me?’

On how McCarthy heard about the role: Melissa McCarthy: I had a very quick introduction to Lee. I heard about it first from my husband [Ben Falcone]. There was an earlier incarnation of the movie—movies fall apart all the time for a million different reasons—and my husband had a part in it, the part he ended up playing in this one [of a rare book dealer], and that’s how I read it. We read each other’s scripts and talked about it and after I read it I was like, ‘This is incredible, this is so good and why on earth don’t I know who Lee Israel is?’. I was disappointed with myself that I didn’t know about her.

On McCarthy’s response to the character as written: MM: I had a very strong reaction. I was at page twenty and I thought, ‘Oh I like her so much’. And then I had to stop and I went back through the first twenty pages, because I couldn’t figure out why. It was intangible. There’s no moment, there’s no speech. I started to fall in love with her, and that to me was the most exciting thing. I find her intriguing, challenging. I loved that she didn’t need someone else to validate who she was. Even when she is difficult, which is often. I respected her.

It also just made me think about being so talented at something and being told at 52, ‘You know, we don’t need you to do that anymore. You’re now obsolete.’ So as someone gets better and better and more experienced, the average thing is ‘Now you’re obsolete’. I just found that whole way of thinking so insane, that I thought, what would any of us do if we were pushed to that point? So the more she kind of conned and grifted, I found myself rooting for her.

On how she got into Lee’s headspace: MM: I read everything she wrote. I also listened to stories from people who actually knew Lee, and then there is a bit of conjuring. You just wanna do right by the people. The costume and wardrobe department were very important because I had no interest in looking like myself. I think it’s really freeing to get to walk around in other people’s shoes and I think that allows you to be braver and more vulnerable. It’s a very fantastic part of what I do, I think you get to be steadier or more empowered because it’s happening through someone else. It takes the pressure off of me.

I have a real fascination in what drives us all. What our quirks are. I don’t know any perfect woman, I don’t know how to play pleasant or blonde. Give me a real character like Lee who’s complicated and irritating and smart and all these things that when I look at someone, it makes you kinda fall in love with them. All my friends are nuts. They always need a qualifier like, ‘They’re actually great, just get to know them’. That’s why we love people. You don’t love people because they’re pleasant, you love them because they’ll talk too much or say the wrong thing, but they’ll show up at 3 o’clock when you don’t feel well and help you. It’s so rare that you get to play a woman like that. Those are the women that I know. They’re complicated and challenging.

On Jack and Lee’s friendship: MM: They were both so lonely. And it’s such a universal thing. I don’t know a human that hasn’t felt incredibly lonely and undervalued. We are all so lonely. I think everyone can feel that tether to those characters, and it’s why even though they shouldn’t have been friends, they needed each other.

On Melissa and Richard’s friendship: MH: Those two loved each other from the day they met in a way that was like, every director’s dream, because they showed up and immediately got along. Richard would show up on days he wasn’t filming and take Melissa to lunch. It was amazing because they were truly becoming friends on this movie and when we got to the scene where they were essentially breaking up, they had to hug each other afterwards because it was so painful.

On working alongside Richard E. Grant: MM: He’s so completely present as a person, and that certainly translates into his beautiful acting because he is 1,000% there. If you go this way, he goes with you. There’s just an ease to it. And we do sometimes these incredibly difficult scenes that were just heartbreaking, and then when we finished, we’d both become very silly and throwaway, which is really important sometimes when you’re shooting something that’s difficult. And then we’d go right back to it. I had such an ease working with him. I think we work in a very similar way. I think we fully commit, right or wrong, and trusted that Marielle is at the helm of a ship and she did it with complete authority and a complete lightness at the same time.

Richard E. Grant and Melissa McCarthy in ‘Can You Ever Forgive Me?’

On the benefits of having a female director: MM: Hands down it was fantastic. And I’ve been very fortunate to work a lot of wonderful male directors [who] also have a quote-unquote ‘feminine side’, my husband, Paul Feig, Ted Melfi, they all have a capacity to listen and be collaborative. I think with Mari, what always sticks in my head, there was never a moment where you didn’t feel completely guided. And the crew, you could see it, really felt like they were all part of this, we knew exactly what Mari’s vision is. And working in this kind of time frame, you need that cohesiveness, and you need someone—I think it’s more likely to happen with a female director—you need someone to do the right thing for the movie, instead of proving that they’re right. And there’s a big difference there. And when you get someone like Mari doing that, the world just falls into place.

On approaching a dramatic role versus a comedic role: MM: There’s absolutely no difference to me. If it’s comedy or drama, it doesn’t change for me at all, I think if it’s a straight comedy, I still try to find, or I’m least very interested in, like, what’s tragic about that person. Like, if they’re so overly pleasant and happy, why? What pain are they hiding? So I do the same thing, if someone’s really aggressive, what’s behind that? So I change nothing. Maybe you’re supposed to, but I don’t.

‘Can You Ever Forgive Me?’ is currently available on all the major streaming services. Reporting by West Coast Editor Dominic Corry.

#can you ever forgive me #melissa mccarthy #marielle heller #directed by women #female directors #richard e. grant #lee israel #biopic #new york #julius #letterboxd

[fidelishaereticus]

age and identity

So as you may be aware, I have been experiencing Some Angst lately to the tune of “my age feels viscerally wrong and repulsive to me and i can’t live with it.” In trying to parse why i feel this way, i’ve come to the following (tentative) conclusion: Age (or our conception thereof) informs a major component of our social and personal identity, and age, like gender, is largely a social construct. That’s why I’m experiencing this particular (very familiar) cocktail of angst.  And before you assume that I’m going to slide from here straight into nope-ville like that girl who claimed to be transracial, LET ME ASSURE YOU: THAT’S NOT WHERE I’M GOING WITH THIS. I know the equivalency only reaches so far, but as someone who has experienced and worked through gender dysphoria, it’s been a helpful analogy for me, so I’m gonna go ahead and articulate it.

It’s like this. Our conceptions of gender spring from a cultural elaboration upon a biological reality (namely, sex and mild sexual dimorphism) that we’ve oversimplified and dichotomised. Where we go wrong is when we mistake the parts that we made up (or the parts we can choose and change) for genetically determined and unalterable facts, when we assign the whole package of gender and tell people it’s all biology and they can never change it and consequently can never have valid access to any identity outside that box. I think (i hope) people are starting to appreciate what a load of bull-crap that whole practice is. But we pull some very similar bullshit maneuvers with age. We’ve based our conceptualisation of it off a biological reality (namely, human development and ageing), but we’ve oversimplified and elaborated upon that reality to the point where we often mistake things we made up about it for deterministic truths. People really do “identify” with ages and assume social roles based on them. And sure, a lot of that is good and healthy and helps society to function. But much of what we think of as age-determined traits are not actually age-determined at all, and that can be hurtful. It’s horrifying to be told that some aspect of your personality that’s purely you—something you feel you wouldn’t be yourself without—has an expiration date well before your death. It’s horrifying to know that you’re allowed full access to your identity now, but in a few short years that privilege will be taken from you, and you’ll be expected keep living without it. To keep living as not-yourself. It’s horrifying. 

Unfortunately, age isn’t exactly like gender, and the same solutions won’t apply (i’m not going to argue that people should be allowed to be “trans-age”---that’s inappropriate and insulting). I think the best we can do with age is to work hard to divorce the socially constructed aspects of age from the age-range they’ve been assigned to. This with the following very important caveats: 

 1. I absolutely concede that the chronological timing of one’s birth is a fact of the physical universe.* How we conceptualize that chronology and how we “count” from there is technically a social construct, but it’s a very useful one and i’m not suggesting we overturn it. It’s good to have ways to describe reality and keep track of when things happened, and we should do so with as much scientific rigour as possible.

 2. Different developmental phases coincide with being closer to or further from the time of one’s birth, and those are not social constructs either (though there is often much more variation in how the patterns unfold than people imply). These differences must be taken into consideration where necessary. 3. Arguably the most important developmental difference is that which distinguishes an fully developed human from one who is not. How we as a culture define “child” versus “adult” is obviously a social construct (and has indeed changed a lot throughout history), but there’s a very important reality behind that one. Throwing that distinction out the window would be a pretty Terrible Idea on many fronts, and I’ll never suggest that we do it. There are however definitely large swaths of it that could use revision (see: the idea adults can’t or shouldn’t enjoy certain fun activities anymore, or the idea that children don’t deserve certain forms of respect. 

On the whole, however, I think we ascribe way more to age (even to very specific age-numbers) than can be justified by biology, and i would very much like to throw all of that useless garbage out the window for the reason of: it makes me sad. I know I’m not the first person to propose this, but i feel like it needs saying bc imho we’re still doing a very shitty job of throwing it out the window or even talking about it in productive ways. I don’t exactly how to begin throwing it out the window more effectively, but i would really like to. It would eliminate well over half of my daily angst and identity discomfort if I could be free of it. 

For an example (and the rest of this is just rambling): I don’t want to be complimented on being “young at heart”: i want to do away with the notion that my age has anything to do with how energetic or creative or silly or fun-loving or whatever I am. Because it really doesn’t. I know people mean well, but what i hear is: you were expecting me to be Boring bc i’m old. And to me that feels just as shitty as being told i was “really strong for a girl” (1. I don’t identify as a girl and 2. hi there sexism thanks for implying that girls are weak). And I don’t “identify” as an age. It’s just,,,a fact that i have no control over, like the fact that I’m 5′1. Yean, I was born in a certain year, and have presumably been kicking around since and have had time to reach full maturity, and statistically it’ll be pretty weird if i’m still around in 75 years or so. But other than that?? I don’t wanna hear about it. I don’t want to hear “bright young 20-something,” i don’t want to hear “old hag” i don’t want to hear it. I don’t want people to look at me and try to guess my age and then make bullshit assumptions based on that. oh but ~medical complications~ you might say! we have to look out for the fragile elderly yeah, whatever, medical complications are between me and my doctor. also? tons of people have medical complications in their 20s. ON AVERAGE older people are more fragile but it’s not set in stone. Some people in their 70s are more constitutionally robust than some people in their teens. AND THAT’S FINE. if you need medical attention you need medical attention, at any age, and it doesn’t make you any less valuable. and if you don’t? you don’t. oh but ~experience~ you might also say and ok, to an extent that’s fair, but ALSO NOT SUPER CLEAR CUT like,,,,idk man. some people in their early 20s are Experienced af its like they’ve already lived 1000 years and Done Everything its wild. and some older people? it’s like,,,,have you ever left your house? I was really a Child well into my 20s, in a lot of ways—not in that I was a whiny brat who couldn’t take care of myself, but in that certain parts of my brain and body were just very slow to reach full maturity. experience and maturation happen very differently in different people. ugh, anyway, i could do this with almost everything we “assume” about people based on age, there are always exceptions to trends, and then on top of that there are LOADS of assumptions that are pure cultural bullshit (for an obvious one: Adults don’t play make-believe, they have Put Away Childish Things). I’m done with this shit. I don’t wanna hear it.

*unless you want to get into whacky theoretical physics re what even is the physical universe in which case i have no idea so don’t ask

#age #stuff and thinks #ageism #identity #about me

[themikewheelers]

this isn't a st related question but i truly enjoy reading your answers and your rants, and i wanted to ask what do you think of 13 reasons why (if you have seen it)? i've so many conflicted thoughts about it and many people don't like it because of the way the characters seem to approach things/situations, and the obvious explicit content the show has

I mean I guess my number 1 opinion of it is that I’m just TIRED of always hearing about it? I feel like every five minutes online there’s someone new posting smth trashing it and it’s just kinda exhausting. Even if you don’t like the show that kind of constant negativity is just too much. I’m gonna post my actual opinions under the cut bc it’s pretty long

I can see what some people say about how it romanticizes suicide, but personally I didn’t interpret it that way. For me it was more like “Hannah had all these problems in her life and people couldn’t stop them, but if they gave her some support maybe she would have been able to cope with them” and that’s a valid thing. You can’t love away someone’s mental illness, but you can give them the support they need so they don’t fall to a point where they’re considering ending their life. Personally I don’t really think it romanticized her suicide, but I can understand why some people feel that way. I do think the show didn’t do the best job sharing their message in s1 and the vagueness left a lot up for interpretation and a lot of people interpreted it in a bad way, and there was definitely some insensitive lines that are bad out of context. I think it was better with this in s2 though, it was more clear about it’s themes and what it was trying to say. 

But even with that said, honestly the argument that it glorifies suicide just makes no sense to me. The whole point of the show is that Hannah’s death was a tragedy, an AVOIDABLE tragedy, there was really nothing (at least that I saw) that was portraying it as a good or honorable thing or whatever. I can see how someone may say it romanticized her death, but it certainly didn’t glorify it. 

And just let me say, in general with ALL suicide-related media, it’s gonna cause more suicides. That’s not something that’s going to change and it exists for literally every piece of suicide-related media. People watch it, and possibly get triggered by it or it puts the idea in their head, and it results in more suicides. But that doesn’t mean the topic should just be avoided? Suicide contagion isn’t a black and white issue. Of course there are going to be problems caused by talking about a topic that’s become taboo in our culture, but there’s also existing problems that aren’t going to get help unless people start talking about them. Talking about suicide is inevitably going to cause more suicides, but it’s also going to prevent them.

So with that being said, anybody who blames this show for anyone who may have hurt or killed themselves after watching is just plain disrespectful. A show does not make someone suicidal. If someone is at the point where they are considering ending their life, they have a lot of mental health problems going on, and while a show may bring some bad feelings to surface, those feelings always existed, and this was without a doubt something a person struggled with before the show. This show could be the most awful, trashiest thing on the planet, but the fact of the matter remains, blaming someone’s mental health problems or suicide on a television show is plain disrespectful. End of discussion there.

And quite honestly, there comes a point where you can’t blame a show for something in it triggering you when you had complete knowledge it would be shown. There are CONSTANT trigger warnings in the show, they’re at the beginning of every episode, there’s extra ones for the episodes where more intense stuff happens, and in the beginning of each season theres a video you can’t skip from the cast urging anyone who may be triggered not to watch the show and to reach out for help if they need it. If someone ignores all those warnings, it’s not the show’s fault. It’s not their fault either and I’m in no way blaming them, but I’m just saying the show itself shouldn’t be blamed for it. And I do think peer pressure plays a role here because people are constantly talking about the show, so I think there’s a lot of people who should be avoiding shows like this but then ignore the warnings bc they feel like they have to watch it to understand the hype and all that. I think fans (and even people who aren’t fans) have to take some responsibility themselves and do their best to make sure people who might be at-risk don’t feel pressured to watch something that might harm them. I think one of the major problems with the show is it’s marketed as a teen show, but contains a lot of intense stuff most teenagers can’t handle, but still force themselves to watch even if it hurts them bc of all the hype. 

There were absolutely a lot of parts of the show that were in bad taste. They really didn’t need to explicitly show Hannah’s suicide, there’s definitely some insensitive lines thrown around, there’s some parts I think it would have been a lot better without. I think there were parts that were overdone and used for shock value and all that. It’s in no way a perfect show. But at the end of the day, I don’t think it’s black and white. There’s obviously problems in the show, but there’s also been good that’s come out of it. And you can’t take any one person’s opinion for it, because there’s people who struggle with suicide who think this show is trash, and there’s also people who struggle with suicide and this show is their lifeline. I don’t think it’s as simple as “this show is awful” or “this show is amazing”. I don’t think it deserves all the hate it gets, but there are definitely problems with it. And more than anything, people really need to stop being dicks to people who enjoy the stuff. Nobody’s interests are 100% flawless and perfect, there’s problematic aspects of everything, and a lot of the people who are fans of the show care because it brought up personal stuff for them. I don’t care how awful you may think this show is, I just really want to stop seeing fans get shit for it. That’s what bothers me the most. 

And I’m just going to say one last thing. I think at the end of the day the goal of the show was to start conversation about the way suicide is treated in our society, and it’s definitely accomplished that. Both people who hate it and love it, they’re talking about it, and they’re talking about suicide and how to better deal with those at risk, so in that sense, I do think the show made a positive impact. It’s had good and bad effects, but it’s gotten people talking, and no matter what I do think that’s a good thing. 

[phosphorescent-naidheachd]

_____ said:

on one level i will always enjoy watching a cool lady ride jon's face or w/e so i am not anti-dany getting some of the old King In The North. otoh - the whole epic meet cute destined thing is too grand for me. it's like an archetype? i prefer how rooted and grounded and layered jon/sansa is as a ship - everything has resonance and a kind of unexpected joy, like Persuasion, where neither person thought they could repair the past and find happiness and yet happiness is there for them. it's just more my jam. i hope jonsa shippers have enough to work with for fic purposes after the show ends

another thing - i wish dany could have a male family member who doesn't want to bang her, especially given that monster of a brother she had... jon is a wonderful family member. i wish they could have been that to each other 

^^^

I’m not inherently against J0n3rys -- written as an epic ‘our fates were written in the stars long before our birth’ archetypical relationship or not -- as long as it’s executed in such a fashion that feels true to the characters and that resonates emotionally with me... but I highly doubt D&D are going to manage to do that. I have approximately 0.12% trust in them as writers/directors and that’s a generous estimate. Add in the fact that D&D have a fairly limited amount of screen time to build a J0n3rys relationship up from nothing, and the chances of D&D sacrificing true character/relationship development on the altar of expediency rise considerably... as do the chances for an increased amount of ‘telling’ rather than ‘showing’. Just my opinion, though.

GRRM isn’t perfect, but -- partially because of the medium, partially due to his own skills -- his writing of the J0n3rys relationship will doubtless be a lot more nuanced and believable when the characters finally meet in the books.

Actually, one thing that’s really neat about Jon’s relationship with Dany (and with Sansa, among a few other characters!) is all of the narrative parallels and contrasts drawn between their individual experiences. I recently read a piece that argued that GRRM isn’t just deconstructing fantasy tropes with ASOIAF, he’s also very much reconstructing them -- “not tearing the genre apart so much as reminding readers of why it was worth falling in love with in the first place” -- and that really struck me. I like to think that if J0n3rys does end up being endgame in the books, GRRM will use his particular “existential brand of romanticism” to make that archetype feel fresh and real and worthwhile.

Ughhh, I feel you there. Dany deserves kind, platonic, supportive family members. Like Jon, she’s always had a strong longing for a home and family and belonging, and Jon (and through him, perhaps some of the other Starks too) could really fill that role well under the right circumstances. Which isn’t to say that he couldn’t still fill that familial role in a romantic/sexual capacity, but it’s not quite the same thing, y’know? As you said, Dany has never really had someone love her who doesn’t want to bang her (maybe Missandei, but I always thought there was a faintly femslashy subtext between the two of them on the show), and I think it would be good for her to have that kind of relationship in her life.

My feelings re: show!J0n3rys are a lot more complicated than my feelings re: book!J0n3rys, mainly because my feelings re: show!Dany herself are very conflicted. I think most of the criticisms leveled at Dany by the fandom contain validity, but I also think that most of those criticisms are also strongly influenced by fandom’s sexism/misogyny and its attendant double standards. I think that Dany -- both in the books and on the show -- is a very complex character, and frankly I don’t think D&D really get that; I think they see her purely as The Once Underdog, Now Conquering Heroine(TM), and that the GOT narrative is going to reflect this sadly limited viewpoint.

I have a lot of sympathy for Dany’s position and understand why she acts as she does; her traumatic past and the culture(s) in which she was brought up have absolutely shaped who she is today: her fears, her desires, and her methods of achieving those desires. I would also argue that although show!Dany is pretty self-centered, she generally has good intentions. Nonetheless, I’ve become less and less a fan of show!Dany over the years. I have issues with some of the choices she’s made, with her frequent (albeit unintentional on her part) hypocrisy, and with the racist undertones both GRRM and D&D have (accidentally?) inserted into some of her major story arcs (indeed, to the point where I have a hard time mentally separating her from said arcs). If Dany undergoes further character growth that positively alters how she acts going forward, my feelings towards her may change again, but in the meantime… I don’t know. As I said: it’s complicated, and my thoughts about her sometimes even vary from episode to episode. (Heaven knows my thoughts & feelings re: Tyrion and Jaime often shift depending on the episode lol. But that’s a topic for another time.)

I don’t want to see Dany humiliated and humbled, the way many antis do, but I also don’t want to see her as she currently is on the Iron Throne, the way most stans do. I don’t believe she’s insane or currently in danger of becoming insane, as many antis think, nor do I believe that she’s an unusually cruel/terrible/[insert negative term here] ruler and warrior for the society in which she lives. However, none of this makes her inherently the best person to rule Westeros, either. 

Although it isn’t entirely Dany’s fault, she knows almost nothing about Westeros -- past or present -- and what little she does know was understandably given to her through a pretty pro-Targaryen lens; this lack of understanding of facts -- and more crucially, of attitudes -- will serve her (and more importantly Westeros) very poorly if she ever becomes Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Yes, having Westerosi advisors can help, but only so much. The monarchy of Westeros doesn’t seem to have much in the way of checks and balances, after all, outside of ‘it’s probably not a good idea to offend any of the major Houses too badly and definitely not multiple Houses at the same time’. Dany is still relatively inexperienced at ruling and is certainly more than capable of learning and improving... the question is whether she’ll allow herself to. Especially now that she has the ultimate power in the form of fully-grown dragons, which makes it even more difficult and dangerous to question or challenge her actions than it would a dragonless monarch like Robert Baratheon.

(Although, since we’re mentioning Robert Baratheon... I get the sense that Dany, like Robert, much prefers the fighting and ceremonial parts of being monarch over the day-to-day administrative parts. YMMV.)

It’s my opinion that Dany has gotten increasingly good at convincing herself that her personal desires are actually selfless and/or inevitable, that her way is the Right Way, that too much compromise is weakness, and that an increased volume and degree of violence on her part is both justified and necessary. This is an excellent piece of meta on the subject; although it’s about book!Dany, it’s still by and large applicable to show!Dany too... in fact, I would argue that in many ways, it’s even more applicable to show!Dany. Dany isn’t the only “good” character in ASOIAF/GOT to harden herself to violence or to make some of these sorts of mistakes, of course -- Jon probably would have been an even bigger disaster if he’d somehow wound up as the ruler of Meereen, for instance -- but that doesn’t remove the validity of these criticisms towards her, either.

Actually, speaking of Jon and Dany, there’s one argument that antis make that really bugs me: that Jon was chosen by his people, while Dany chose herself; meritocratic monarchy vs. hereditary monarchy, if you will. It’s not entirely wrong, but it’s not the full story either. Davos falls prey to this same trap when talking to Dany on Dragonstone, in fact: "He's not King in the North because of his birthright, he has no birthright, he's a damn bastard. He's King in the North because those hard sons of bitches believe in him."

I mean, yes, Jon was chosen by his nobles to be their king, and they do believe in him, but you can’t act like his heredity didn’t play a significant role in that decision. If Jon hadn’t been the ostensible son of Ned Stark, do you really think all the nobles of the North would have called for him to be King, no matter how worthy he was or how much they believed in him? Just look at part of Lyanna Mormont’s speech, for crying out loud [italics my own]: “I don’t care if he’s a bastard. Ned Stark’s blood runs through his veins. He’s my king, from this day until his last day!” *rolls eyes* But I digress. 

Moving on to address your comments on Jon/Sansa:

Unlike many J0nsa shippers here on tumblr, I don’t think J0nsa is ever going to be canon. Definitely not on the show, and probably not in the books either. And I’m mainly OK with that; that’s what fanfiction is for, after all. (Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t be delighted to be proved wrong re: canon lol.) 

I’m very much a multi-shipper in GOT/ASOIAF, and my main fannish wish is that my favorite characters survive to the end of the series. Ideally, none of them irrevocably betray other characters I care about and they all survive and they’re all at least marginally happy, but that’s probably way too much to ask. As I said, I’ll take ‘alive’. Because as long as they’re still alive, a happier ending is still a possibility somewhere ‘off-screen’ after the series ends. Dead, on the other hand, is dead. Sure, I can create AU ‘so-and-so-lives’ headcanons, but I’m still acutely aware that they’re AUs, y’know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yessss, Persuasion is such a great comparison! There’s something very bittersweet and healing about that kind of ship. Shades of a shared past paired with hope for a better shared present and future. The gradual realization that it isn’t too late to find/create happiness. idk, I just have a lot of feelings about this dynamic.

#wow this turned into a MUCH longer answer than i'd meant for it to be #phos replies #3~~ #4~~ #5~~ #GOT meta #daenerys targaryen #jon snow #jonerys #jonsa #meta #things done by phos #long post #GOT spoilers #well sort of but not really

[theenetflixnerd]

Th1rteen R3asons Why: Prepare to Be Obsessed.

SPOILERS AHEAD. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

I thought for this recap/review  I would stick to the theme with 13 reasons of my own.

13 reasons why I LOVED  (or Not Loved) THIS SHOW (and BOOK)

The Loved List

1. The Cast - Katherine Langford (Hannah) is amazing (some Aussie pride over here!) and I feel she does total justice to the lead character, she made it completely believable and relatable.  I also loved seeing Ross Butler (Zach) in another role, as I already love him as Reggie in The CWs Riverdale! Only wish we could’ve seen more of him. It’s always an honour to have Kate Walsh (Hannah’s mom) grace the screen, I’ve been a fan since Private Practice. I felt that all the cast were perfectly chosen and brought their characters stories to life in a magical way. I couldn’t imagine any of the roles with another actor. They were amazing and a great fresh young cast who I am sure will soon be taking Hollywood by storm! 

2. The Narrative Format - I absolutely LOVE Jay Asher’s narrative concept for this story. The tapes, the voice, the whole idea and concept just adds to the whole kind of 'thrilling’ feeling which perfectly suits the haunting story of Hannah Baker. I think it’s an extremely unique narrative and it works so well with this particular theme and topic by adding so much more depth and emotion to the story. I don’t reckon that such an important and serious theme could’ve been addressed half as well or as appropriately with any other narrative. It worked perfectly together.

3. The Storylines - The storylines are all fabulous. The book and main storyline about the suicide of Hannah Baker and what lead her to her decision is something I think is extremely important to tell in today’s society with teen depression and cases of teen suicide scarily on the rise and being one  of the leading causes for teen death. It’s haunting, it’s honest, it’s raw, and most importantly it’s so damn real.  Also the individual story for each ‘character’ / ‘tape’ / ‘episode’ are so incredible. Each character has their own unique storyline of how they fitted into Hannah’s life and became a part of her final decision. Most of the stories were exceptionally well suited to their respective character , but some of them left me sad as I really expected more from those characters (especially Zach & Justin but more on them later). Having said that though, it was all fitting to the main story, and wouldn’t have been the same otherwise.

4. The Characters - All of the characters were relatable and wonderfully portrayed. One of my favourite characters was Zach -  mainly because he is played by Ross Butler, but I honestly think he was one of the nicer guys and I really feel like Hannah could’ve come to a different outcome if she’d given him more of chance instead of just brushing him off - but I do also understand she had her reasons for reacting the way she did. I really enjoyed watching each character’s story unfold through out this series as they each had an extremely unique and definite personality, and story. Justin was a character I also enjoyed as I could really feel his pain, and I think he was not a bad guy, but his life lead him to make a couple of bad decisions himself. Everyone has their own demons that they’re battling against and I think that this show perfectly portrays this how all of us are dealing with our own personal issues which cause things to work out the way they do. (I love how the show focuses on each of the characters and also explores the aftermath of how listening to the tapes affected each of their lives (whereas the book only really concentrates on Clays thoughts as he is listening to the tapes and doesn’t really give us much background into the other characters, the show really gives us insight into each of their personal lives and their relationships with one another).

5. The Interweaving -  I also loved seeing in the show how each of the characters were connected to one another and how their relationships are affected by the demise of Hannah. Of course all of them have played some part in her final decision and it’s heartbreaking for them to realise the consequences of what they had done, even though for most of them it was unintentional. They now also become connected by all their secrets as the 13 of them are now fully aware of the secrets of each other and they have to work together to try and keep Hannah’s accusations and their guilt from going ‘public’ which they’re all afraid the ‘stand up, good guy’ , Clay might do - as even Hannah admits - ‘one of these things is not like the others’ and Clay in a sense doesn’t really belong on the list - but I guess Hannah feels she owes him a kind of explanation.

6. The Acting -  The acting is mostly brilliant in this show. I have to give special recognition to the actor Justin Prentice in this segment as I think he did a phenomenal job. Justin Prentice played the character of ‘Bryce Walker’ who is basically the ‘villain’ of the season, he is pig headed and absolutely disgusting , typical jock type guy with less than ZERO respect for women (and his friends) who thinks his money can buy him out of any problem and get him whatever he wantes. He honestly had me HATING him at the end of this show, and I had developed kind of a personal vendetta against him wishing he’d been the one who was dead in Hannah’s stead. Only a few days later I was watching an interview (13 reasons why: beyond the reasons - special available on Netflix under trailers and more) and I realised - ‘Crap. Like he’s (Prentice) a hot, genuinely cool guy. Bryce is just a character.’ He explained how hard it was to bring this character to life. It was a real challenge as it would’ve I’m sure hit a few nerves and touched on a LOT of raw emotions, and sensitive issues. So major props to him for creating such a believable character!

7. Tony & His Mustang -  Tony, played by Christian Navarro, is like half the reason to love this show. Man, Tony is just so effortlessly suave and sexy (but sorry ladies - he’s gay!) and he just happens to continuously appear at the right place and at the right time. I love his kind of mysterious, guardian angel aura that portrays on the show as he follows Clay around and supports him as he tries to get through listening to the tapes. Not that he needs another reason to be sexier but he drives and adores his vintage, red MUSTANG! Dayum! (I’m not sure if I loved Tony or the ‘Mustang’ more to be honest haha) .... He was a major part of the shows success and It wouldn’t have been half as incredible without him in it. 

8.The Messages-  I think that all in all the message that this show tells is one of EXTREME importance : It needs to be heard. It raises awareness of a very important issue which should not be hushed out and kept silent. It’s a shout out to a number of groups too. To Depressed Teens : SILENCE IS NOT STRENGTH!!! PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE. OPEN UP TO SOMEONE. If you’re thinking sad, depressive and suicidal thoughts, don’t keep them bottled up inside your mind, speak about them, say them out loud, admit your feelings don’t hide them away from those around you. People can’t help you if they don’t know what’s going on inside your head. Some one will always be willing to listen. You just have to speak to the right person. To Teenagers (Humans) in general : DON’T BE AN A**HOLE. You never know how what you do may affect some one and slowly be chipping away at their identity. Be kind. Show Respect! and LISTEN. Read between the lines, be there for people, and provide a ‘safe space’ and an opportunity for them to reach out. Don’t ignore subtle hints! Take EVERYTHING seriously, let them know they are loved. Let them know you CARE! To Adults , Parents and Councellors. Be PRESENT. Be AVAILABLE. Don’t undermine their feelings. If something is troubling them - it’s troubling them for a valid reason - don’t make them feel silly, or like they are over reacting. If they are upset they HAVE THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO FEEL THE WAY THEY DO. Help them overcome it, help them deal with it and remember: the worst thing you can tell someone who is hurting is to ‘MOVE ON’. Their emotions are ALWAYS justified - don’t disrespect their feelings by minimising them. To EVERYONE - whatever we say or do can affect someone else in ways we could never know or imagine. Pay attention to how you treat others! 

The Not so Loved List

8.  The Sexist Themes - I really was affected by the sexism portrayed especially as it’s not just a show and / or story - this is happening IN REAL LIFE. Boys today (and I’m sorry for generalising here, I admit I know it’s not all of you, I know there are still stand-up, genuine gentlemen somewhere out there, they just happen to be the exception rather than the rule these days) have such a little, if any respect for the female body. In this show particularly, it’s as if the girls are viewed as a trophy or a plaything and nothing more - they are not treated as respected, independent, strong individuals - but rather they (girls) are expected to just be taken advantage of allow the boys to ‘take’ their own pleasure from them ( I say this because of two separate rape incidents within this story where the girls did NOT give consent and yet the boys went ahead anyway taking advantage of the vulnerability). Girls are viewed a prize or possession something which can be owned and just because they ‘have the hottest ass’ or the ‘best lips’ now every guy has the ‘right’ (sarcasm here) to just grab the ass, or make out with her whenever he feels like it. It’s absolute rubbish. Any guy who thinks like this is madly flawed in his reasoning - under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should a girl EVER BE TOUCHED UNLESS SHE HAS GRANTED HIS PERMISSION TO DO SO. (And the same goes for guys! Girls shouldn’t throw themselves over them unless the attraction and desire is MUTUALLY acknowledged). It’s a two way thing and BOTH PARTIES involved should have an EQUAL say! Mutual respect is important in any relationship. It doesn’t take much longer to take the time to say, ‘this is what we’re about to do? Is that okay with you?’ make them feel secure and supported.

9.  The Teenage Stupidity -  I was horrified once again by the realisation that this is how teenagers actually treat eachother. More than just in the book or series this is REAL LIFE. It’s so sad to think about how stupid, and naive and unintentional actions can have such harsh, and permanent consequences. I am so glad I am no longer in high school right now - if I had to see these things going on around me I’d be crushed. When did our generation become so cruel? so uncaring? This is not the kind of future we want to raise our kids into .. is it? Let’s get some respect and healthy relationships back into fashion. Let’s raise our girls to be strong, confident, loving and trusting and our boys to be protective, caring, kind and respectful. We are the future and it starts with us! Let’s not just ignore overlook the seriousness of these issues. BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD, have a little chat with the (WO)MAN in the MIRROR!

10. The Selfishness - There are more than one areas where I felt selfishness could’ve been avoided and Hannah’s story could’ve had a different outcome. First instance is with the other characters - each of them performed selfish actions (Alex selfishly wrote the list to make himself feel better and get his revenge on Jess, Ryan selfishly published Hannah’s private poem, Bryce, Marcus and Tyler all used Hannah to selfishly satisfy themselves in their own ways). Second instance is Hannah herself - she was extremely selfish in her final decision. Suicide is a selfish choice, and a selfish action. I know it may sound cruel and harsh - but it’s true. When you decide to take your own life, it’s something you want to do to end your pain because you feel that you can’t go on with life anymore. But do you stop to think about those who are left behind? After you’re gone - they’re the ones who will be left struggling with the aftermath, with a hole in their hearts and an emptiness in their life because of what you CHOSE to do. It’s always a choice. Another interesting point brought out in the special is that suicide of a friend / classmate can affect people so much that it often drives another person to suicide. (As happened in this show when Alex also shoots himself in the end). It’s heartbreaking for those left behind, and do you really want to make your loved ones suffer a pain worse than what you yourself has been going through? Especially if you haven’t really given them the chance to help you overcome what ever it is you are facing.

11. The Lack of Support -  I was especially disappointed in Hannah’s parents, Mr. Porter and Hannah’s “Peer Communications” class and teacher. All of these groups had a chance to support / help Hannah. She tried to talk to her parents, but because they were so worried about the business all the time, she felt like she would only be burdening them unnecessarily, she thought she was strong enough to do it without them, and they were too distracted to notice that she was going through some really rough things. They didn’t make themselves available and Hannah didn’t feel like she could talk to them.  Hannah made a reach out to her ‘Peer Communications’ class in the anonymous discussion bag with a note about suicidal thoughts but the class laughed it off, and thought it was some one looking for attention, the teacher didn’t realise it was actually a cry for help (but in all fairness Hannah refused to come forward - so what was she expected to do?). Hannah however did come forward and try to reach out to Mr. Porter, the school councellor, after she was raped by Bryce and what did he tell her ‘If she didn’t want to report it, or confront him, Bryce would be leaving the school in a few months and her best option was to ‘move on’.’ What an absolute disgrace!! It’s no wonder he became the 13th Reason why! She said in so many words that she just ‘Wanted life to stop’ but he didn’t take her seriously enough and that same day she went home and did what she felt was the only thing she could. 

12. Clay - I found myself getting annoyed with Clay ALOT through out the series (he was a little less irritating in the book) ... He felt like a weak, pointless character other than being the one to deliver the contents of the tapes to us. I felt like he didn’t have much depth, or wasn’t all to interesting to watch. He was trying to fight the tapes instead of just listening to them and getting the full story for Hannah. Luckily Tony (the hero of the story) was there to set him straight at every turn. I do like the fact that Clay stood up to Mr. Porter at the end as he so wisely said ‘It’s got to change. The way we treat each other.’ I did also respect that he was probably the only guy spotlighted in the series that didn’t try to take advantage of Hannah.

13. Hannah’s Choice(s) - This may seem a little unfair and I know Hannah had her reasons for her final choice, and I understand why she felt like she had to do what she did, I do, but I also think that there were a few instances where she could’ve made a different choice and all in all this could’ve lead to a very different outcome for her. In a sense I feel that she set herself up for failure. She made choices which allowed her to justify her decision.  One mistake I think Hannah made was not giving Zach a chance, I might be wrong here, and maybe he would’ve used her like all the other guys, but he seemed genuinely concerned for her after Marcus’ stunt! She made him look like a fool in front of everyone and then expected him to stand up for her when she ‘tried’ to call out for help? Maybe if she’d just given him a chance and opened up to him when they were in good standing he might have been able to hear her cry for help and respond accordingly. Another missed opportunity was that with Clay - when they were making out at the party she asked him to stop she felt the hurt from all the accusations against her reputation up until that point. He listened, he respected her , he stopped. He was confused, he asked her what was going on, she could’ve broken down and opened up to him then, but what did she do? She pushed him away. She chased him out. If she’d opened up to him, if they’d begun a relationship, she could’ve regained her self-respect and she wouldn’t probably have found herself in a shady situation with Bryce. Bring me to her third mistake NOT REPORTING BRYCE, yes she blamed Mr Porter for telling her ‘move on’ but she did not want to report it or confront Bryce- she didn’t want to see him again. She could’ve and should’ve reported him. She had witnessed Bryce previously rape a barely conscious Jessica (and Justin had seen too)  and if she’d paired up with them they could’ve taken him down and found peace. But Jessica didn’t even know, Justin covered for Bryce and Hannah never told Jessica the truth or confronted either of them until the tapes. If she’d spoken sooner, the outcome could’ve been a different one.

Anyways an AMAZING story completely haunting, gripping and thought provoking! Definitely recommended!!! Even the points on my NOT SO LOVED LIST made the story what it is - and I wouldn’t have changed a single thing - as if Hannah’s story were any different it wouldn’t leave such an important lesson for every single one of us!

#13 reasons why #spoilers #hannah baker #justin foley #alex standall #clay jensen #tony #mustang #thrilling #psychological #teenager #depressing thoughts #suicde

[annagarbe15]

Concept Reflection 10 Anna Garbe and Avery Fu

Anna:

Cooley’s looking-glass self is something that has significantly changed the way I view even minor social interactions. It is a simple concept, that your perception of yourself is influenced by how others perceive. This concept is interesting to me, however, because I cannot decide if knowing it is important in denying the definitions of others and viewing myself in a different light. Or is the perception that others have of you more important than your perception of yourself. Is it important that you work to change the perception of those around you if you believe it to be negative, rather than denying their validity and believing yourself to be different than what is thought of you? The looking-glass self is simply explained but when used toward application gets complicated and has been something I have grappled with this semester.

The film Crash impacted was extremely interesting to me. It puts on display bias and racism from every side. It shows that all people harbor some contempt, bias, and/or prejudice for those different than them. I think that often it is viewed as a one-sided issue. But ultimately, I think it’s in human nature to hold these preconceived notions of people based on the information and/or experience we’ve had in the past. It is a survival tactic. However, as we as humans develop, these tactics may become obsolete, as many things have in human history.

Avery:

Two things that I learned from this class that totally changed my mind are critical race theory and sexism in our society.

By learning the race and gender module, I discovered that racism and sexism are ingrained in our society and they are more common than I thought. People, include minority and women themselves have been normalizing those two phenomenon.

I had a conversation with my friend who is also international student at Temple university, one time about our experience regarding race so far. She said to me that she think the environment she lives in is friendly and peaceful and she had never been discriminated against. Her respond made me think that why would this question exist in the first place. If we were white, will us even have the concern that we might be discriminated against? I think the answer to my question is if we were white, we will not. Sadly, the is no absolute equality. In other words, we are all looking for equality but the ruth is that equality is inequality and inequality is equality. Without inequality, equality will be meaningless, vice versa.

Similar to racism, sexism has been an issue for long enough for us to forgot when it started.  In the documentary, it point out some interesting fact that I didn’t know before – women politicians will be judged base on their appearance but men won’t. I have another personal experience regarding this topic. One time my guys friends and I were talking about dream cars, I mentioned I only like SUVs or truck because they are spacious. I said that I might get a truck in the future; however, one of them said to me ‘can you even get on the seat?’ Yes, I am only 5’2. I didn’t say anything back because I didn’t want to cause a scene. However, it popped into my mind when I was watching the documentary. Another experience was one time we were playing switch and it was my turn, the same guy friend said ‘I can definitely do better than her’. It turned out I actually got a high score on the game than he did. Where did those opinion come from? Why there is a assumption in some men’s mind that they are born to be better than women? I agree that there are some physical differences between men and women, such as men can perform some job that require a huge of physical strength better than women. However, all the difference doesn’t mean women are inferior or weaker. We just have different strengths. Unfortunately, as the documentary pointed out that some hateful comment regard women actually came from mouth of other women. How can we improve the situation if we, women, don’t stick together? No one can help us expect ourselves.

Anna’s response:

I think the points you brought up about racism are very interesting. I think that people have always looked for a way to categorize themselves. It makes it easier to sort through information. If we were all white there would be something else that people used to categorize each other. However, I don't think the categorization of people is detrimental in its self. It seems to give people an identity and belonging. What is bad is the inability of others to accept the difference in other groupings of people. In a way, this is natural, especially if the groupings have to do with morality. You can stand for something but be ok with others doing the opposite of what you stand for.

I think that it is false that women politicians will be judged on there appearance and men won't. First, of all it is natural to judge individuals based on appearance. Second, I have seen studies where individuals are shown two pictures of people running for office on all levels and they are able to choose who wins the election 95% of the time or something crazy like that.  Just by looking at a picture, the vast majority have no idea who the politicians are. They are able to choose the correct winner because the way a politician present themselves and looks plays into our ability to see them in the role, and consequently elect them.

I am not sure how the truck comment has anything to do with sexism, more the fact that you're short. I have twin brother who is actually 6 inches shorter than me (5'4") and we work for a pool maintenance company where we drive trucks all summer and he legitimately struggles to drive some of the trucks because of his height.

I think sexism does have to do with how women present themselves in a lot of ways. I'll admit I am a tomboy and have no problem running with the guys. I have rarely been treated as a weaker person or less than. I present my self as strong and confident in most situations and people treat me according to that. So when women walk around all weak, they get treated that way. They preach that men shouldn't care about their appearance or the way they act but do their best to confirm the ideals that they are trying to get away from. Ultimately, at this point in our country, you are going to be looked at the same way you look at and present yourself, by everyone, not just men. There is nothing wrong with being the weaker person or the girl who cares about hair and makeup or the girl who likes to be promiscuous. It is all a personal choice but you can't be mad when people treat you according to the way you present and view yourself. People assume that those are signs as to what you are like and what is important to you. They use these signs when interacting with you for whatever their purpose is.

Avery’s response:

I really like how you view the looking glass self that I can’t agree more than we should be trapped by the negative judgement by denying those comment through developing a picture that might not be accurate. In other words, there should be a balance between how we think we are and how to value other people’s perception.

I also really like your opinion about race which provide me a whole new angle of thinking about this issue. People are been taught to categorize themselves into different group which leads not only racial conflicts but also social class conflicts. People have been doing that for so long. It’s already normalized. However, the domination and colonization done by powerful and wealthy group had a long lasting impact on the society, for example, small things as privilege high students just pick the weak ones and bully them and bigger issue such as colonization which even when the majority group are colored they still afraid of the dominant group. There are all kinds of example around. Therefore, in order to improve the situation, as you said that people should stop categorize themselves which can be done through education that teach people the theories. Another good point you mentioned is that, people around us perceive us through the way we present themselves. I am happy for you that you have a group of good male friends. I also totally agree with your opinion. However, sadly in some culture when women are strong, they get criticized and they are not allowed to be powerful and independent. They are unable to change the situation by themselves. The situation is more complicated than we thought because different culture have different history, norms and value. All in all, you have a lot of excellent points and they give me a new way of understanding those issue.

It is important when discussing difficult or controversial topics to make the other party feel heard. Whether you ever agree with them you have to make them know you are listening and taking in their feelings. There is nothing that escalates a conversation more quickly than one person sharing their beliefs to a brick wall who is just reflecting everything you say. Additionally, it is important for both parties to understand that agreeing may not be possible, being too invested in changing someone's mind can lead to a frustrating conversation that ultimately turns them away even more. Being calm, collected and kind on both sides of the argument is important. Ultimately, this is important because it keeps you open-minded. Learning from others and their experiences can teach you a lot and help you make more educated decisions. Even if the discussion further legitimizes your argument you will have likely still learned something.

[jessekleiner-blog]

Final Concept Reflection

Final Concept Reflection

I would like you to record (and elaborate—please do not simply list them) 2 things you learned in class that had an impact on you/your way of thinking.  One should be from a documentary and one should be from class lecture/note material or the article you read.

I would then like you to share this with a classmate.

What is their response to what you learned? What do they think of it? Please document that.

What did they learn? How is their perspective different from yours? How is it the same?

The subjects we discuss in Sociology are often sensitive, so people tend to not talk about them. How could you communicate about these topics with someone who had very different opinions than you do in an effective way? Why should we strive for this?

Jesse Kleiner

The documentaries assigned in this course were very informative and lead way to many different ideas of thinking for me. Miss Representation was by far the most influential documentary I viewed in this course. It opened my eyes to just how exploited women really are in this society. We live in a world with an extreme double standard and it is important to break down those barriers as much as we can. There needs to be a certain level of respect for not just women, but people in general. Women have been suppressed for decades and just because we have made ‘so much progress’ does not mean we take a seat. Major careers in the STEM fields and politics are lacking women which is a major problem. The fact that today we still live in a world where the pay gap is still relevant is absolutely unacceptable.

Response: Yeah, I thought it was also interesting what Dr. McCown said last class about how when she went through the journals, she found that the girls in the class all seemed to find Miss Representation enticing and convincing, and tough guise as not so much. Whereas the guys saw both as valid and sad. And how Miss Representation also happens to be the film that was most influential for you, as opposed to tough guise. It is just interesting how we naturally see what is directly relevant to us, most clearly.

During lecture, I enjoyed learning all about the different sociological perspectives on gender stratification. It was enlightening to learn about all the different ways of thinking pertaining to this idsa. Functionalist, conflict, and feminist approaches bring light to theories that I would have never have thought about. My favorite one to learn about was the feminist approaches. I previously thought this was composed of only one way of thinking, but this is incorrect as it is composed of liberal, radical, socialist, and, multicultural feminism. My personal favorite was learning about radical feminism which traces roots back to patriarchy to women child bearing making them dependent on men. Thinking that male domination is actually the cause of things such as racism and all forms of human oppression. It was very interesting to be educated on theories of all different ways of thinking.

Response: Yeah, I also thought the different sociological perspectives were interesting. I had also learned the varying perspectives in 3 of my other classes, since a lot of my classes are very similar, so it was nice having the ideas reinforced and explained in so many different ways and see it be applied in so many different ways, in my Human Development classes, and my sociology classes.

Tabitha Ngo

I really enjoyed watching tough guise, and how raw and real it was. I appreciated how it addressed issues in society that many people fail to recognize or admit to. I also just truly appreciate seeing multiple perspectives, especially ones that I can’t necessarily relate to, however am able to see and understand. It was also just really interesting hearing and learning the about how societal factors have greatly affected this idea of masculinity, and being able to point out the effects of these macro-level factors in close friends around me. I felt as though my lense was widened to see a whole new world and think about how men engage in interactions and pointing back to why they are the way they are. I also think it is really interesting how closely it tied with Miss Representation in pointing out macro-level factors playing a role in the idea of how a girl should look and act. Watching both documentaries was just really eye opening and has definitely made me think twice about the things I see all around me, such as colors of toys, advertisements, and how I see two people of the opposite sex engaging in public.

Response: I agree, It was really interesting to watch Tough Guise and have another perspective when talking about an issue such as gun violence. I learned a lot from that documentary and find myself critiquing popular media now. Everytime I watch my friends play video games I see violence that is truly so unnecessary. Now that I have seen Tough Guise I constantly am in tune to what my guy friends are saying and trying to correct them when they say such things as “be a man”. It is so interesting how much influence media truly has on our society.  

I really enjoyed our lecture on September 25th, when we spoke about social interaction and learned about the different perspectives and ideas on how and why people interact the way they do. I found Goffman’s suggestion of day to day interactions being very similar to being on stage or in a production. It truly made me step back and think about how true and evident that is, and how there is a very known social script present in many day to day interactions, such as shaking hands, and holding a door, and how bizarre it is that every person plays their role exactly as they are supposed to. And how quickly someone notices if someone were to do something that did not follow the script as if the whole production were messed up. I also was really interested by self-fulfilling prophecy, and am pretty passionate in this being extremely prevalent in our society and has a large influence in sculpting people into who society suspects them to be, particularly minorities, and sets them up for failure. Because society has these preconceived notions of how people of color act and speak, often times people feel as though they have no choice but to fulfil that image, because there is no use in attempting to prove them wrong. And I think this concept is something that needs to be spoken about more, and brought to light.

Response: I also enjoyed that lecture! It was so interesting to learn about because it is one thing we all do. I was honestly so interesting in learning more about this concept since we I do it every single day without even realizing. We all know what to say and when to say it. I was an orientation leader this summer and that entire job was a social script. I compared that lesson a lot to the way I acted in that job because I was more or less so different. I said all the right things and smiled when I was suppose to. I also agree with your second point. It saddens me that people feel like there is no where to go but be the stereotype because their race is so suppressed. They have no choice so they often act the way they are ‘thought’ to act.

The subjects we discuss in Sociology are often sensitive, so people tend to not talk about them. How could you communicate about these topics with someone who had very different opinions than you do in an effective way? Why should we strive for this?

Tabitha

I think the best approach towards discussing sensitive topics with someone who has very different opinions than you is to agree to disagree, but still attempt to listen and understand their perspective, and allow them to have their opinion, but simply not agree with it. I think it is important for people to feel as though they are heard, and that their opinion is valid, because it is. However, when they run into misunderstandings of factual information regarding the issue, they can indeed be wrong. However, their opinions alone can not be wrong. And giving them the space and respect to openly speak their opinion, despite your own views, is really important to maintain a civil conversation. They also may say or offer something in a way you have never heard or thought about before, and if we live in a constant bubble of only our perspectives on things, we will never grow and see the world for its actuality.

Jesse

Effective communication can be so difficult when talking to someone who has completely different opinions than you. I think the best way to talk about these sensitive topics is through education. Maybe that is letting them look at some statics to realize that this is indeed such an issue. Numbers are not biased. Next I would use good listening skills to hear them out on what they are trying to say. When mutual respect is gained they are more likely to listen to what you have to say instead of fighting with you.