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knife-em0ji · 8 months

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Sorry for this long post but can people stop treating Vader and Anakin as completely separate people. Like. That type of dissociation were obviously coping mechanisms by Old Ben and Vader. Not like. A literal fragmentation of personalities. Like if you love Anakin Skywalker imo you have to accept that he was a cute kid and a padme simp and a fun older brother and a boy desperately in need of acknowledgement and praise and a father who ultimately loved his son but also a guy who commits atrocities in his anger and strangles people who annoy him and has a victim/persecution complex (although admittedly for good reason) and was also a notorious child killer. This man contains multitudes.

Imo falling to the dark side/using the light side of the force isn’t marked by a shift or fragmentation of personality, but rather what emotions are used to channel the force and guide one’s actions. I think part of what’s so hard about resisting the dark side and coming back to the light is that there’s positive feedback loops of power, and resisting that by doing good and healthily channeling emotions is just plain hard. Especially in the case of Anakin, who is notoriously a “in for a penny, in for a pound” type of guy. He’s loyal and loves completely and dangerously with his whole heart, and he hates just as much.

And I think guilt is a huge factor with him struggling to do good; it’s pretty much a thought process of “Well, I’ve already committed thousands of atrocities and have countless amounts of blood on my hands, I have to believe whole hog in what I’ve been doing because then otherwise what was it all for.” I think that’s what makes his sacrifice for Luke so poignant, because it speaks to how much he loves his son that he’s able to overcome that spiral and do one last act of love for his son, unselfishly and without rationalization.

Idk, I just watched ESB again, and I think beyond just wanting to possess Luke and use him for power, it’s reasonable to think that part of the reason Vader wants him so badly to turn to the dark side with him is that he still thinks the dark side is the only way he can have enough power to protect his family and therefore keep them—he’s objectively much more powerful than he was in the prequels, and a main part of his struggles during the fall of the Republic was that he didn’t feel “strong enough” to protect the people he loved as a Jedi. He wasn’t able to free the slaves. He wasn’t able to save his mother. He wasn’t able to stop Ashoka’s expulsion from the order. He wasn’t able to prevent Padmé from dying. With the commitment he’s had to his path and the objective amount of power he’s amassed since the twins’ births, I think it’s reasonable to assume he desperately grasping at the idea that somehow, this time, he’ll be able to achieve what he’s never been able to do before. But his failure always lies in the fact that his motivations are, and always have been, ultimately self-serving, that his pride and fear of loss—which are completely understandable in moderation and not something he should necessarily be punished for—outweigh his real and genuine care for his loved ones and the galaxy at large.

Idk. All this to say that Anakin has always been Vader and Vader has always been Anakin. They’re the same fucking person, you fools! Stop taking dissociative rationalization literally!!! It’s right there in the text!!!! His return to the light does not negate his time in the dark and vice versa! There is good in him !! He is capable of unspeakable evil !!! BOTH ARE TRUE AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!

#darth vader #anakin skywalker #Star Wars #look. I have a PhD in Darth Vader. he is my babygirl. my sweet cheese. my silly rabbit.#my meow meow has committed atrocities by the likes you’ve never even believed #Vader studies #tbh don’t even get me started about how I think imposing a strict binary on a cosmic energy field and channelling exclusively one side of it #is reductive to the theme of ‘balance’ like. how can you be balanced if you only use one side and whole heartedly reject the other huh. huh

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duskwingmoth · 11 months

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"Your choices don't matter."

This is and will continue to be the most-misunderstood line in the game. Even now in June 2023 with ample evidence, many players seem to believe that Deltarune is a game that disregards player agency and their decisions, despite the Player still being the single most powerful entity in its universe.

The confusion is understandable, as I do believe it's an intentional red herring, and certainly with regards to the outcome of Chapter 1's events it holds largely true. Nonetheless, people seem to overlook the fact that Ralsei, mere minutes later, has this to say:

"I believe your choices are important, too!"

The importance and implication of both lines together goes overlooked, likely because the latter doesn't happen with nearly as much fanfare as Susie's explosive introduction. But the parallel framing gives the game away, as does the dichotomy in Susie and Ralsei's reaction to your role as the "leader" of the Lancer Fan Club.

What Deltarune is telling you with these lines is that whatever Chapters 3 through 7 hold, a defining aspect of the RPG formula is going to be heavily scrutinized and deconstructed, just like player/game morality, repeat playthroughs, and player character agency were in Undertale.

In RPGs, be they western or eastern in origin and influence, a largely unchallenged assumption is baked into their design. You, the Player, will be the final word on any decision that the Party makes, whether it be a party of one or 100 characters. What Kain, Rosa, Rydia, Edge, and every other party member in Final Fantasy IV want out of their lives is irrelevant, and their thoughts and feelings on the next course of action even moreso; they all default to Cecil's decisions, and Cecil can do nothing without you. Therefore, Cecil is entrusting the events of the game to the player that controls him in the overworld and in the battle scene. They will all be in your final party lineup, whether they like it or not.

Later versions of Final Fantasy IV will take this even further, allowing you to subvert the exit of other party members from your control once the finale is ready to commence. Cid, Yang, Palom & Porom, and Edward no longer have the security of irrelevance to convalesce, heal from their wounds and sacrifices and traumas. If you want them to be part of your lunar expedition, you need only speak to them at the Tower of Prayer, and they will hop into Cecil's pocket while another party member (of your choice) is left behind.

Their choices don't matter. Yours do.

As far as we've seen in Chapter 1 and 2, Deltarune is absolutely holding NES and SNES Final Fantasy up as a strong influence, especially IV, with party members entering and leaving your command as the plot and their agency within demands. This makes for interesting gameplay changes and challenges, certainly. What the game is doing with it thematically, however, seems to be going thus far largely unexamined. Final Fantasy IV, after all, was something of a subversive JRPG experience for its time as well, and if there's one thing that's very clear about Undertale and especially Deltarune, it's how much it wants to subvert player expectations, thwarting the flowchart mindset with which a game-savvy person is conditioned to approach video games of similar trappings.

Through the majority of Chapter 1, Susie is completely impossible to control, command, or influence in any direct way. She has absolutely no regard for what Kris and Ralsei think of her actions, ignoring the rules set out by Ralsei and the game's mechanics, and you are expected to merely play around it. When she rejoins and when you do finally gain the ability to command her in battle, it is only because of forces utterly beyond your direct control, and even then, only because Susie made the active decision to submit to your will for the time-being.

Even still, she reserves the right to comply maliciously or revoke her trust in Kris (and your) decisions.

Not only that, but her actual ability to follow certain orders is immediately called into question.

"Your choices don't matter" to Susie. Only Susie's choices matter to Susie. She is the party member who rebels against your controlling influence as the player on the basis of her own whims, taking actions unprompted and departing entirely when being with Kris is inconvenient to her impulses and desires. You, and the game, have no control over Susie thus far.

Compare and contrast with Ralsei, the goodest goody-two-shoes floof you ever did see, obediently and staunchly obeying the laws of the game and its universe. Despite ostensibly being a ruling power within the confines of Castle Town, he immediately, happily, and without argument submits fully to the Player's will, whether you wanted to have that much control over him or not. What he may want, what he may think, what he may feel, he considers secondary to what Kris wants. As we have seen, that too is equally meaningless in the face of what the Player wants.

Even when the laws of physics, relativity, and the very rules Ralsei himself establishes dictate that he cannot be in the Computer Lab with you as far as we are currently aware, Ralsei goes out of his way to return to Kris' side, and take orders from them once again. He does not argue when you deliberately flout his advice and are just as violent as Susie in Chapter 1, and he does not make any attempts to actively rejoin with you when Susie drags him offscreen to parts of Cyber City unknown in Chapter 2. Even when violating the set rules of the game is the consequence, he will follow yours and Susie's directions.

Whatever the mysterious forces may be that compel Ralsei to be so rigidly obedient that he will diminish his contributions when you purposefully belittle them, the demonstrable fact is that, in effect, you own him. You are everything he is, and his everything is yours. Will this be reified within the plain text of the game? Who knows. It would certainly be fitting if it was. Though whether that makes for a stronger story remains the opinion of the development team, and they are 100% willing to play with your expectations.

Like, for example, the prevailing understanding coming out of Chapter 1 that "your choices don't matter" was the be-all, end-all statement Deltarune had to make, something that somehow persists beyond Chapter 2's release and collective analysis, and, more specifically paradoxically, in light of the revelation that is Noelle Holiday.

Much of Noelle's life beyond what you can observe as her classmate is left ambiguous. In part to maintain some fun textual mystery for later, but more so that you have a blank slate upon which to work as the unchallenged master of Deltarune's entire universe. A master that likely has experienced Undertale in some form or fashion and is well aware of its conceits and statements, thus likely looking for more explicit, gameplay-defined dichotomies. Think of Susie as Deltarune's thesis, Ralsei as its antithesis, and Noelle as a synthesis of the two opposing ideas. Or, more simply, a question posed to the player:

"What happens when we give you the power to subvert someone's will without their knowing consent?"

In relation to Queen, Noelle is to her as Susie is to you. She does not want to obey her commands or be in her presence because her own desires are not in alignment with Queen's. The thing about Noelle, is that she is far less rebellious, and escapes Queen's control via simple avoidance, instead entrusting you with her agency based on prior familiarity with Kris and the fallacious assumption of shared goals.

Your relative anonymity, and the ambiguity of your desires as a Player are what leave Noelle susceptible to your influence. And you, the Player, may well not be someone who should be trusted with that kind of power.

Thus, Snowgrave.

In a deliberate echo of Undertale's deconstruction of multiple playthroughs and game morality, you can, if you want, turn Noelle into a murderer, a thing she would never become on her own, and thus demonstrate that the rigid rules of Deltarune and what you previously believed it had to say fall limply before your power like wet paper. In the process, you also subvert the supposed control Queen has as the chapter's antagonist, and make an example out of the one character who actively and completely refuses to submit to your will, rendering them both completely obsolete.

In the end, you have final authority on whether Noelle Holiday the character is a person with agency in her own story, worthy of her own backstory and motives, or a set of actions with no capacity to argue with anybody, only perceiving the world through the lens of violence, as most RPG party members are. And it should be stressed; you never have to go through the motions of Snowgrave yourself to "see what happens"; the internet already has your answer. You choose to do this to Noelle and the characters, because you want to do it.

There's a lot to appreciate about Deltarune and its dedication to being a richer experience in every way, but most fascinating are the questions Noelle poses. "How ethical is it, really, that you have the power to veto everything about a character and what they want? Are you okay with this arrangement? Do these cute little pixels mean anything to you beyond what they can do for you?" For the fact that it explores this so thoroughly in under two hours, and for the implication that there's even more musings just like it in the future. I don't know if there's a game that has really interrogated the concept of party members like this, because I've certainly never heard of it. Compared to the well-trodden ground in Undertale's core statement, this is a mental exercise the general audience isn't primed for, possibly one that a lot of game developers haven't entertained either. Certainly not with this large a crowd watching with bated breath.

I'm not a Deltarune theorist by trade, but this is my one that I will openly put forward: Deltarune is not done making you feel uncomfortable with the monopoly you hold over these characters in this way. This is what sets it apart and elevates it to one of the greats in the medium, mark my words. Your choices do matter, and they matter very much.

#deltarune #deltarune thoughts #deltarune theory #chapter 2 spoilers #plenty has been said about kris and their open rejection of your control and likely there's so much more #but i do feel like they are overly centered in the discussion at the moment given the lack of recognition of deltarune's themes so far #long post #i wrote this like half a year ago with the intention of drawing stuff to go with it but at this point i should just set it loose as is

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