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#sabine wren critical
itsonlymyecho · 7 months
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I'm sorry but it's textbook Star Wars that putting one person above the entire galaxy is a dark side move.
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antianakin · 3 months
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I've decided I don't like the "disaster lineage" thing, I never really have, so I'm creating some new "lineage" names to better represent the way I interpret the characters.
The "infinite lineage" includes: Yoda, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Luke, and Rey.
I chose "infinite lineage" to reference how this lineage in particular is the one through which the Jedi Order keeps continuing on despite everything and everyone trying to wipe them off the map entirely. This is the lineage that PERSEVERES, that stays the course, that refuses to let the Jedi way of life die.
The "insidious lineage" includes: Palpatine, Anakin, Ahsoka, and the Ahsoka show version of Sabine.
This is the lineage that destroys, the one that passes on Sith teachings through subtle manipulation, slowly eroding the parts of its lineage that were once Jedi until what's left is just a sad pitiful little shell of selfishness and very little else. You can include characters like Dooku, Maul, Savage, and Ventress in here as well, though obviously these are all different branches stemming from Palpatine rather than one nice unbroken line, but the same general concept still applies. Anything good that used to exist in some of these people is just slowly chipped away by darkness until nothing's left of the people they used to be.
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kanansdume · 7 months
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"Ezra's home because of you Sabine."
Cool, great, so we're just going to ignore that THRAWN is now also home because of Sabine?
That Ezra's home is threatened AGAIN because of Sabine?
That everything Ezra did and sacrificed and all of the years he spent lost in a galaxy he couldn't escape wasn't made completely meaningless directly due to Sabine's choices?
Sure, Ezra's home. BUT AT WHAT COST.
I don't CARE if Ahsoka's trying to be a nicer person to Sabine because THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BE FUCKING NICE. THIS is the time to be tough and point out that YEAH, SABINE DONE FUCKED UP AND NOW SHE NEEDS TO ACCEPT THAT AND FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO TO FIX IT.
They DON'T belong in this galaxy and you know what? Ezra SHOULDN'T have to fix Sabine's supreme fuck-up. HE ALREADY DEALT WITH THRAWN ONCE, he literally sacrificed himself to deal with Thrawn the first time and the ONLY reason he has to do it again is because of Sabine's terrible awful choices. WHY SHOULD THE BURDEN OF FIXING SABINE'S MISTAKES FALL ON EZRA'S SHOULDERS???
NO! TELL HER OFF! SHE DESERVES IT! And she needs to come to grips with the inevitable consequences of this choice she made. Ezra's home, but the galaxy will pay the price for that, and neither Sabine nor Ahsoka even CARE. Cool. Great. Love that for both of them. Great characterization for these two, Felony.
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lunarspiral1127 · 7 months
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*Ahsoka show and Star Wars SPOILERS*
I hope I'm not the only one who's incredibly disappointed with how the Ahsoka show went. But, I was. So much so, that I think The Book of Boba Fett, and the Obi-Wan Kenobi show were better than this show.
Ahsoka should've been mad at Sabine for not destroying the map. She should've been mad at her for going with the enemy and giving Thrawn the means to get back. Hell, Ezra should've been told about how Sabine got there sooner and should've been AT LEAST disappointed in her. But, they don't. The show keeps justifying Sabine's actions for some reason, when we damn well know she made bad ones.
And, the latest episode tries to make it a good thing that Ezra made it back home, but the thing is Thrawn is also back and he's gonna wage war against the New Republic. Innocents are gonna die. But, hey! The plus side is the guys she cares for made it back home and the only consequence she gets is being stranded on that planet. All this to set up either another season or another show or another movie.
So, totally worth it.....god, I hate Sabine in this show. I feel so sorry for some of the Rebels fans I've talked to that don't like how their beloved characters are being ruined in this show.
Also, Baylan and Shin were said to be really good characters, but we know very little about them and their goals.
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nateofgreat · 8 months
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If Dave Filoni were a DM (Part two)
I'm sorry but I had to write another of these after someone pointed this out...
Dave Filoni: Okay, tell me about your character Grievous.
General Grievous: I'm a Kaleesh warrior who's trained his entire life, now I'm going to travel to the Jedi Temple and try to become a Jedi.
Dave Filoni: Interesting, interesting... Alright, it's time to roll.
General Grievous: Hahaha! A fifteen! Surely those Jedi will-
Dave Filoni: Oh sorry, but it turns out you can't join the Jedi unless you're Force sensitive.
General Grievous: Bah! I'll go to Count Dooku instead.
Count Dooku: I'll train you to use lightsabers and pay for cybernetic upgrades for you, but I'm afraid I cannot help you become sensitive to the Force.
General Grievous: Fine, it will do.
Dave Filoni: Alright Sabine, you're a Mandalorian and former member of the Rebellion, and it turns out you have the chance to become a Jedi.
Sabine Wren: I don't really want to be, I've already invested so many points in-
Dave Filoni: Well, try anyway! Roll to see if you're Force sensitive.
Sabine Wren: I guess... *Rolls a one* Well, guess that's a no, maybe now I can get on with that search for Ezra? Or go back to Mandalore and-
Dave Filoni: Suddenly Ahsoka decides to take you on as a Padawan anyway, despite you not using the Force. This leads to the discovery that anyone can use the Force! Just as long as they believe and-
General Grievous: Gah! *Smashes table*
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confused-much · 6 months
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Ahsoka ended and all I can say is that I feel empty and unsatisfied.
I expected something better, you know? I guess that's on me for having expectations about a Star Wars show.
I liked the early Hera scenes with Chopper. I liked the visuals, I liked Thrawn and I adored Ezra but the rest? Nope, big no no.
Ahsoka is terrible here. Where is her personality? Her fire? All she does is pretend to be a wise sage. First she says that they have to stop Thrawn and that includes destroying the map and at the end of the show praises Sabine for her selfish, terrible choice and I'm like what???
What the hell happened with you, Ahsoka???!
Don't let me start about ignoring the fact that Anakin was Darth Vader and did terrible things. Nope, he's a good master now. He's always supported Ahsoka.
Especially when he tried to KILL her in Rebels, remember that? Or when he KILLED the Jedi and younglings in Jedi Temple? Yep, perfect master material.
And seriously it's pissing me off because Anakin had his dark moments in Clone Wars too and suddenly they are irrelevant. Suddenly Anakin is good and when Ahsoka tries to even imply how he terrorized the Galaxy for years, he's like "Is that what this is about?"
And to be fair, I don't blame Anakin here. If they want to make him an unlikeable asshole who doesn't try to make amends with his padawan, cool.
But why the narrative suggests in every way that Anakin was good? Or, for that matter, that attachment is good?!
Guess what, you can love someone and also not be obsessed with that person. You can love and not let that love consume you and twist you into someone terrible and selfish.
I wish we got a scene in which Ezra learns what Sabine did to get to him. I want to see him disappointed in Sabine and hurt that with her one selfish decision she undermined his sacrifice.
Also, come on, that fight with zombies was terrible.
Sabine having suddenly the force is so stupid and unnecessary that I can't even comprehend it. Seriously, I just ignore it because what the fuck.
You can diss Kenobi show however much you want but at least it's portrayal of Obi-Wan was good and Anakin was the monster he was. Oh, and Reva actually had a story unlike Shin who was just there I guess.
I miss Clone Wars Ahsoka. I also miss Rex and the rest of clones but with the direction this whole shitshow is going maybe it's better if I don't see them again.
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hailperseusjackson · 7 months
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the way that, if you took away her armor and the two or three lines referencing it, you would literally never know that sabine was a mandalorian in the ahsoka show. filoni completely stripped her of her culture (and personality) and never gave her a meaningful scene talking about the destruction of mandalore or her family. all in favor of giving her a bad and poorly executed padawan storyline, because apparently a character can’t be interesting unless they’re a jedi
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chissjedi · 8 months
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this is a PSA from your neighborhood ace asking you not to be an asshole
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jedimasterbailey · 7 months
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WARNING! AHSOKA SHOW RANT DOWN BELOW! SPOILERS!
Furthermore, I’m going to be completely honest in this review so if you’re someone who truly enjoyed the show, you’re a Rebels stan, etc. then this post isn’t for you. Haters will be blocked immediately so take your negative energy elsewhere. You have been warned!
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For everyone else, buckle up because I’ve got a lot to say and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this as well. All comments are welcome so long as they are respectful to everyone.
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Okay, so now that the show is done for now. I’m going to be listing some major talking points. We’re there some aspects of the show that I enjoyed/appreciated? Absolutely! But overall, I’m leaving this show very disappointed, confused, and frustrated. The finale left me feeling empty and never have I personally been more silent after a Star Wars show. Now mind you I think this has a lot to do with the fact that I love Ahsoka’s character dearly as well as the Clone Wars and the prequels so there is bias here. Furthermore I am pretty indifferent with Rebels so going in knowing that the Ahsoka show wasn’t going to be…well about Ahsoka but rather a Rebels sequel, that already put a bad taste in my mouth and I was very nervous how this show was going to go and well…it was exactly what I expected from a Filoni/cheap Disney production. Without further ado, here’s a list of all my beef.
1.) Lack of a Coherent and Cohesive Story
So I’ve mentioned this in a previous post, but my main issue with Dave Feloni productions is that the story seems to be going all over the place and there’s a lot of moving parts that don’t necessarily meld well together. I often think to myself that Ahsoka is an example of a poorly written fanfiction brought to the screen. So the plot of the show initally was focused on Ahsoka bringing Ezra home. Okay, that’s simple, there’s many different ways we can make that cool and interesting but that’s not what happened here. We’re just filled with a ton of confusing information and we’re in for a very boring journey heading for a very anticlimactic and unsatisfying ending.
For starters, we the audience are informed that Ahsoka and Sabine had started an apprenticeship (which I have ALOT of issues with but that’s for another talking point) but they got into a tiff (which we never find out about and/or see) and now things are just depressing and weird between them. First of all, anyone who has seen Rebels KNOWS that Ahsoka and Sabine literally had very little to do with each other; I can’t recall a single conversation those two have had in the past, nor was it ever eluded to us that Sabine is Force sensitive.
Second we see that Hera and Sabine don’t have anything to do with each other for some reason? Which is weird considering all that’s happened and their history but okay suddenly Sabine, a grown ass 30+ year old woman is Ahsoka’s responsibility, which again why? We don’t get any background information, we’re just expected to accept and go with it.
Third, Ahsoka and Hyuang are reunited and working together immediately but again do we know how that became to be? No. We see none of that.
Fourth we are told that Morgan Elsbeth, a one off antagonist from the Mandalorian that Ahsoka fought is suddenly a Dathormirian woman even though she looks nothing like one besides her outfits in the show nor was that eluded to previously.
Fifth, we are introduced to these two new…I don’t even know what to call them “dark siders” “non Jedi” Shin and Baylan (who is apparently a former Jedi from the Clone Wars but did we see that or see how he knew Ahsoka and Anakin? No.) but we aren’t given any reason to care about them other than they’re in Ahsoka’s way of completing her mission. They end up being more like time fillers that anything else and end up walking away from the big conclusion. Like…why are they even in this show and why should we care?
Perhaps Dave Feloni has this big grand story in his mind but he’s so far up his own ass that none of us get to see this story. It’s like seeing a little kid play with their action figures and they’re super passionate about it but as a outsider you have no idea what’s going on. Now this isn’t good not only for the sake of good storytelling but it’s bad for business too.
Disney wants to make as much money off of Star Wars as they can. That’s extremely obvious. However here you have a show that isn’t going to pull in a casual Star Wars viewers (they would have to watch so much content to catch up on whose who and what is going on) nor is it really going to pull in fans of Clone Wars and Rebels because while they overlap, the fandoms are different and Feloni hasn’t done a good job melding those worlds together thus the divisive opinions on this show. This leaves for an incredibly small niche of people and honestly I think whatever toy sells they make from this show will do better than the actual ratings. I would be shocked if they greenlit for another season because I’m pretty done with this story as is many of the people who would be willing to watch.
All in all this is embarrassing how Feloni and the gang with all the money and resources can’t pull off a simple and epic show when there are thousands of unpaid fanfic writers that could pull off a much better story and build these beloved up characters, which leads into my next point.
2. The Characterizations of Ahsoka, Sabine, and Hera Are Bad
Now I have mentioned previously how much I love Ahsoka but damn it upon watching this show, she may as well be dead. Ahsoka has been given the Luke Skywalker treatment in that Ahsoka has been stripped of everything that made her lovable in Clone Wars and Rebels and is left as a sorry shell of who she once was. Her dialouge is hollow and lifeless not like the lively Ashley counterpart that made us all love Ahsoka in the first place. And no don’t give this “well she’s older now” bullshti excuse because Obi Wan Kenobi never lost his cheekiness and charisma as an old man, neither did Yoda, or Leia, etc. Just because you age doesn’t mean you have to be lifeless. Maturity does not equate to emotionless. Secondly for a woman whose well into her fifties and still acts very much like a Jedi Ahsoka’s views on the Jedi and their philosophy seem very warped and the audience is again left confused as to where she stands on the Jedi. I mentioned in a previous post how I couldn’t stand Ahsoka’s negativity towards the Jedi and how nobody seems to matter but Anakin (even though he’s put her through a ton of trauma and has tried to kill her as Vader) because it’s just so distasteful to the people who raised her and loved her that died by genocide no thanks to Anakin. Ahsoka has zero character development other than she seems to forgive Anakin for his wrongdoings despite the nonexistent apology. For a show that has her name on it, she sure is boring. Makes me miss Ashley and old Ahsoka even more.
As for Sabine I probably could write a whole thesis on how unlikeable she is but I’ll keep it short. One, I find it sick on Feloni’s part that he’s having a grown 30+ year old woman act like a teenager and be snarky with just about everyone. Ezra, who annoyed me immensely in Rebels, was WAY more mature and grounded. And again I’m sick and tired of the Mandalorian excuse of you getting to be an asshole because youre Mandalorian. Shut up. No one is above manners and decency. Sabine’s actions in this show have been far from Jedi like and thanks to her immaturity, she left Ahsoka for dead once and is indirectly responsible for the death of New Republic officers who were trying to stop this very dangerous mission that could possibly bring Thrawn and the Empire back ensuing more death and destruction of innocents. Ahsoka deserves to be angry with her for her words and actions, but of course Sabine gets a free pass and her bad behavior will continue to be enabled.
As for Hera…when did she become such a Karen? Just because you’re an officer doesn’t mean you get to abuse your power for your own personal agenda. That Senator was right about her. Finding Thrawn is a threat to the galaxy and using resources and putting lives at risk for it is a big deal. Hera was depicted as honorable and responsible in the Rebels series and I swear I was watching a different person on screen. Also she is a major Sabine enabler and that needs to stop. Sabine is grown and needs to grow up and fix her attitude.
3.) Anakin’s Role In the Show
Now don’t get me wrong, I love Hayden and I love Anakin, I have the dude tattooed on me for Force sake so don’t come at me for that, but I had some issues on how his character was used here. First, I’m tired of Ahsoka’s relevance to Anakin being the only defining trait about her. Second, I’m continuously annoyed by Anakin’s lack of accountability in these shows; he never once apologizes to Ahsoka for all that’s happened, he never once’s has a meaningful conversation with her; he just basically beats her down until she finally lets go of her past. Did I love the Clone Wars flashbacks! YES! They were my favorite part of the entire show and I want MORE of that; but I so wish Anakin could have been reflecting on his own actions with Ahsoka instead of being like “Is ThAt WhAt ThIs Is AbOuT?” Like come on 🙄
4.) Ahsoka’s “It’s Time To Move On” Line
Are you kidding me Ahsoka? There is still so much more to unpack with her past such as all the other relationships she’s had that completely changed her trajectory like BARRISS and REX and she could also be a mentor figure to Luke and Leia, etc. But nope the only thing that matters is getting over Anakin and all is well despite being stranded in another galaxy and Thrawn being unleashed back home. Like THIS IS NOT OKAY!
5.) The Cheap Ass Production of this Show
I’m not normally one to comment on production but it was so obvious in this show how many corners were cut. For one characters like Thrawn look god awful. Dude looking like a blue Elon Musk instead of an intimidating villain. The use of fog and the volume were very obvious and the places we went to were so boring minus the red leaves forest. The worlds of Star Wars used to be so cool and otherworldly but that’s not the case nowadays and it’s sad. Also why does Force ghost Anakin look better in the 2000’s than it does now? I prefer quality over quantity so I really wish Disney would quit churning out these cheaply made productions and have the audacity to rise their Disney plus subscriptions and not pay their people well.
6.) THE RACISM
I’m so fucking tired of this y’all! 🤬 of course make the Jewish actor in the shipyard be greedy and power hungry. Of course make the Asian Senator the asshole and not any of the white protagonists. The antisemitism and racism against POC is unacceptable to me and it should be unacceptable to you too.
Conclusion
I’m sure I’m missing some talking points but these are my biggest grips and as an Ahsoka fan I’m disappointed. Being a miserable Jedi not Jedi responsible for bringing a new evil into the galaxy but being content being stranded in another galaxy is not the future I believe Ahsoka deserves and I sincerely hope they don’t continue this story. It’s just bad all around. Except for the Loth cats… the Loth cats can stay. And Clone Wars flashbacks.
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antianakin · 5 months
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Honestly, it's just a little weird that SHIN ended up the least anti-Jedi character on the entire Ahsoka show. Ahsoka and Baylan both explicitly condemn the Jedi as weak or failures and both Ahsoka and Sabine keep disrespecting Huyang and his Jedi protocols, whereas it's Shin who actually asks if Baylan MISSES the Jedi themselves, if he misses the Order. She has no real connection to it herself, so she can't miss something she never even knew, but she takes the time to ask Baylan if HE misses it. It's the closest we get to someone MOURNING the Jedi and recognizing that their loss is, in fact, something that should be sad. Shin asking if her master misses his own genocided culture is legitimately the closest we get to acknowledging Order 66 at all and the closest we get to a genuinely pro Jedi moment.
And it came from the stupid little Darth Maul knock-off with a personality like wallpaper.
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kanansdume · 7 months
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"You did well." "Did I?"
No. No you didn't. Live with it asshole. You're the galaxy's worst Jedi. Hell you're the worst Jedi in TWO galaxies now. Sucks to be you I guess.
"Ezra never would've gotten home if not for you."
Super fun, we're just pretending like Thrawn isn't going to murder a whole bunch of other people's Ezras as a result of this, I guess. But hey. Ezra got home, so it doesn't matter that they've unleashed Thrawn upon their own galaxy. It's Ezra's problem now, we love him so much we decided we'd let Ezra fix our own mistakes we made out of pure hubris and selfish attachment.
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short-wooloo · 7 months
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No but I absolutely am going to blame Sabine for the rest of forever for making it possible for thrawn to return and for everything that will happen because of that, she put the galaxy at risk just so she could see one person (also she spat on his work to get rid of thrawn by doing this)
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bluntblade · 25 days
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I've got a theory about why this happened, and I think the other Mandoverse shows support it, especially Mando S3. Basically, these shows have over-committed to using the Volume to the point that it hurts their action scenes. Not just in terms of how they look and feel, but what can even be put in front of the camera.
As Greig Fraser (the brilliant DoP who worked on early Mando as well as Rogue One, Dune and The Batman, and first got the Volume to work) has said, the Volume comes with pretty steep limitations. Spielberg has managed to do some things with it that Fraser hadn't thought possible, but for the most part it restricts what angles you can shoot at and also what movement you can have. Film Crit Hulk talks about it in more detail re Mando back in 2020:
Note HOW MANY times they’re standing relatively flat and the camera angle is directly parallel to a ground so that it puts the horizon in the same 1/3 of the frame spot behind them. They do this because if they raise the camera higher (as many shots should and would) it would reveal the “boxy” angle of the stage. It may seem small, but it REALLY de-emphasizes the natural surrounding and I’m worried it’s hurting the overall look of the show.
And it occurs to me that arguably the best-shot action of that series is probably the one where they went out and just filmed in the California hills. Note how Boba gets to tower over that one Stormtrooper and how there's a real sense of wham when he lands.
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If you're shooting everything in a context where nothing can move all that fast, though, it really hurts your most kinetic characters. When Kelleran Beq gets his showcase in Mando S3, the camera can't move to add oomph to his strikes or give him a hero shot (in Kenobi you see them trying this with Vader, but they have to stop short of an angle which will actually give the image punch). If you've seen Dune Part Two, think of how the camera races along with Paul and Chani in some of their fights with the Harkonnens. That's wholly missing here.
And this also impacts the old jet packs (and Jedi acrobatics, for the most part). Whereas Jango could rocket around merrily, it's notable that the Children and the Nite Owls alike only really use their packs for dedicated aerial scenes. In the pirate fight, you can easily imagine them boosting from rooftop to rooftop and sparking even more "high ground" memes, but instead they conduct the fight entirely at a walking pace and on the ground.
And all of this hurts Sabine in particular, because like Ahsoka, she originated in animation and has previously been depicted in a really kinetic way. Even without a jetpack, she's a very acrobatic fighter in Rebels, and it's one of the things which makes her a really fun character. But in the process of moving to live-action, Filoni and co opted to change the characters to fit the Mandoverse style, instead of changing the style to fit the characters. The result is that lots of the things that first made Sabine so cool and fun just aren't really possible now.
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nateofgreat · 1 year
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The Ahsoka show is going to be real awkward with the context that it’s supposed to be a sequel to Rebels. Like she’s that one jerk who just tags along and makes everything about her.
Ahsoka Tano: I’m searching the unknown regions, looking to find myself...
Sabine: Actually we’re trying to find Ezra, remember? He gave me that message telling me he was counting on me?
Ahsoka Tano: I’m haunted by the ghost of my old master!
Sabine: Didn’t you make peace with that seconds after it happened? And just left the Rebellion to deal with him?
Ahsoka Tano: I’m forging a connection to an ancient force goddess!
Sabine: We’re supposed to be looking for Ezra!
Ahsoka Tano: Admiral Thrawn, my old rival!
Sabine: No, Ezra’s old rival! You weren’t even there for most of it!
Ahsoka Tano: I’ve rescued Ezra, my old friend.
Sabine: He’s my friend! I was the one he asked to find him!
Ahsoka Tano: And now it’s time for me to ascend to godhood!
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devondeal · 7 months
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Something I’m not to much of a fan of with the Ahsoka show is how they are blatantly disregarding Kanan in favor of Ahsoka.
When Ahsoka is training Sabine and struggling had already been covered by Kanan, he brought that out, he helped her, he trained her. He was her first Master and she was his second kindish Padawan. And yet what do they do? Completely disregard all that, chucked all she had learned from Kanan out the window in favor of Ahsoka.
It’s all just rather disappointing 😔 like I understand, Ahsoka is Filoni and many fan’s favorite but don’t disregard and disrespect my boi Kanan Jarrus like that.
Literally everything that has been established has been tossed away to support Feloni's jackoff narrative and it's painful. Sabine's training has always been centered on lightsaber combat, not Force sensitivity and Kanan emphasized that for that reason. But fuck continuity and any sense of meaning I guess
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starbeltconstellation · 8 months
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Gotta say… I’m getting real tired of the fate of the galaxy getting put in jeopardy because of people’s selfish reasons. 😬😬😬
Like, I wanna see my boy, Ezra. But… it’s getting old. Real fast. Maybe I wouldn’t be as hard on Sabine if fandom weren’t as hard on the Jedi. But they are, so I am.
So, with that, I say: Sabine, girl, what is you doing? 😔😬
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