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abittersweetraisin · 11 months

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Whenever i talk in favor of Chloé there have always been people telling me how she did nothing to deserve the miraculous, that she doesn't deserve a redemption, that she never showed any signs of wanting to be better. I don't agree and in this post i go in detail on why.

Since day one they've written her as a horrible person and I've never denied that. But i do say that there have been more than just signs of her being written as someone who could be better. I'm just not being blinded by hate. Let's recap some episodes... I'll try to be as brief as possible.

-Despair bear. How many of us know someone stinking rich? Maybe just from the distance? Do you really think that rich people allows their employees to talk to them the way Chloe's butler talked to her in that episode? Sure, when Chloé felt humiliated she yelled at him, but that doesn't take away that she had allowed him to get emotionally close to her. He knew her, what she had lived and how she felt. And she listened to him.

People say that her effort in this episode doesn't count because she only did it because it was convenient for her. She cared about Adrien. Even then it shows good in her. She cared about him. Adrien. Not his money, not his position, not his fame. This goes against what the writers forced on her later on season 3 finale when they said she only loved herself. - Zombizou. Oh, i love this one. People saying that she only apologized to Miss Bustier because of Chat Noir and Ladybug were there. Apologized only so she could get her miraculous again. Look at her facial expressions:

She even felt self conscious when she noticed Ladybug and Chat Noir watching them. And that wasn't an act. The character's acting is supervised by the show's director. Look how the show portrays when someone is lying, here is Lila in Protection:

And it's more than just the visuals. Go watch the episodes, listen to the music. Chloé apology do was sincere. I've also been asked "Then why didn't she apologize to Marinette?" Well, a truly shoehorned redemption arc would had her changing just like that, from one moment to the next. It feels more natural if it happens little by little, step by step.

-Malediktator. Last week i showed a video of Marinette choosing to trust Chloé with her miraculous. Let's now take a look at this scene:

Again, look at her facial expressions. She dreamed of being a hero along side Ladybug. She was so into the moment that she almost slammed against the chimney. She admired Ladybug. She wanted to be her. That was shown since season 1:

Again, more than once i've been told she only wanted the spotlight and Queen Wasp is brought as the source for that. Have we forgotten the Queen Wasp episode or are we choosing not to see what happened back then? Audrey couldn't even remember her daughter's name. She was praising Marinette, offering her the opportunity of a life time. Offering to take her to New York with her, when she hadn't even taken her own daughter with her. May the first stone be cast by whoever wouldn't truly feel jealous and hurt by something like that. Chloé had tears in her eyes. Audrey said the only exceptional thing about Chloé was being her daughter. Chloé replied (and i quote): "I'll show you how exceptional i can be!". It was then that she transformed into Queen Bee for the first time and it was after that that she did the thing where she put the train in danger so she could be the hero to save everyone. Wrong, yes. But again, this was a character that was just beginning a redemption journey. She didn't want fame, she was looking for her mother's love.

-Miraculer. Come on... How can people say she didn't try to be better? She was being offered power and she rejected that.

Yes, later she embraced the akumas, but till before season three's finale she had been written differently. That was a character that could truly become a good person. That didn't happen not because she didn't have the potential, but because the writers didn't allow that to happen. Let's not forget she's a fictional character. I mean, in Lilo and Stitch. Stich was genetically designed to want to destroy everything and even for a character like him there was redemption. It comes down to whether the writers want to write that path for a character or not.

Then Mayura tried again, she offered her the chance to retain the bee miraculous. If Chloé had truly only wanted the spotlight she could had accepted the offer. She wanted to be a hero and this time not to impress her mother. Not because she wanted the attention from the media. Come on, she's super rich. If she only wanted to be famous she could have easily made that happen. This scene was a huge mistake from the writers and they tried to patch it up with Miracle Queen episode:

They knew they were going to keep handing the same miraculous to same people. Alya has been even trusted with the Ladybug miraculous twice! So, of course they had to write the Miracle Queen episode to say "Look, she's bad, she can't be trusted." I don't know how much of the fandom didn't like that, so what did they do: "Chloé hate campaign" all along season 4. And now what they're giving us for season 5. And all this,... Why? For what? To represent people who will never change? That's an excuse and season 2 and most of season 3 are proof of that.

If after this recap you still think that she was never written trying to be better,... I'm sorry, but it would be that you don't want to see it, not that it wasn't there.

#chloe bourgeois #chloe sugar #mlb analysis #mlb malediktator #mlb zombizou #mlb queen wasp #mlb despair bear #mlb salt

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immaturityofthomasastruc · 1 month

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Remember that one post when they asked you about Miraculous reaching Rwby levels of writing

You said and I quote “I guess if they continued to portray Adrien in the right even if he worked with Shadowmoth for some reason, or gave all the villains redemption arcs except Chloe, that may be enough for me to quit the show entirely.”

Now here we are, Gabriel has a statue, Felix is dating the girl he kidnapped after attempting genocide, Tomoe didn’t go to jail or the heroes ever found out about her working with Gabriel, Nathalie is in the pool party after murdering a presumed human being with the Thanos snap and Andre takes Zoe to leave Chloe with Audrey (this is somehow a good thing and Audrey is in the right despite her being to blame for Chloe’s personality has a whole)

The only villain left to be unredeemed or not going unpunished is Lila, so are you putting your trust on Lila or you’ll abandon ship before we can see how she’s dealt with?

Technically, Adrien never willingly worked with Gabriel, so there's that at least.

Granted, I'm not sure how I'll approach Season 6 yet.

#immaturity of thomas astruc #iota #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug salt

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uptoolateart · 11 months

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I've seen comments about Sabrina's change of heart coming out of left field. I know she's done bad things before. In fact, I couldn't stand her because she had no backbone. But people can change, especially at that age.

What she did before, she did out of a misguided sense of loyalty to a friend who, sometimes and secretly, was actually close to her for a long time. When she told Marinette her career plans and said she likes helping people, we saw that she has spent all this time genuinely feeling of service to Chloe in some bizarre way...and Chloe actually used to reward her for it in her way.

But the dynamic has changed and Sabrina started thinking about what her police officer father would think of her actions. Chloe well and truly used her, in the end - and Lila is a much bigger brand of 'evil' than Chloe ever was. Now that they are all finishing school and looking to the future, it's natural that Sabrina might reflect on these things and decide, actually, I'm done. I want to be better.

Sabrina chose the redemption Chloe doesn't want. It's never too late to do better. Let's applaud her :)

Please no post-Collusion spoilers in comments :)

#miraculous ladybug #mlb #ml fandom #mlb fandom #ml confrontation #mlb confrontation #ml sabrina #sabrina raincomprix #ml spoilers #ml s5 spoilers #ml s5 #mlb spoilers #mlb s5 spoilers #mlb s5 #ml analysis #mlb analysis

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miraculouscriticismshub · 9 months

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Felix and Chloe - two sides of the same coin. SEASON 5 SPOILERS AHEAD

Introduction

As you may know , MLB is far from a decent show. Poor writing choices are common and most characters are inconsistent. But today I want to talk about two characters , Felix and Chloe . This might be a controversial take but I think Felix and Chloe are two sides to the same coin . Both are quite similar in character and personalities but whereas one character receives hate by the fanbase and is slandered by the writers , the other character is loved and gets rewarded for doing bad things. This post will talk about how MLB introduces unintentional misogyny despite the writers claiming they are feminists. This post will also go in depth to analyze how hypocritical the fanbase is. This is not a Chloe defense post or a Felix hate post. This is a post criticizing the writers and addressing the double standards.

Felix and Chloe - similarities

Credits to @drawing2cope on tumblr. Link - https://drawing2cope.tumblr.com/

Despite what most fans may think - these characters have so much in common. First Chloe and Felix were both Adrien’s only childhood friends growing up. Second, both had a cuddly toy. Third , both had one abusive parent , for Chloe it was Audrey and for Felix it was Colt. Fourth , both had one enabling parent , for Chloe it was Andre and for Felix it was Amelie. ( Side note : the difference between Andre and Amelie is that at least Amelie loves her son and only enables him because she wants to show that she cares for him ) Fifth , both were part of the hero team. Sixth , both betrayed the hero team by siding with HM. The key difference is while Chloe failed , Felix succeeded. Both are bad as each other because while Felix seemed to have better motives, he had more control over the situation while Chloe was being manipulated and used. Felix and Chloe are both essentially two sides to the same coin - both did bad things for different reasons and both had similar relationships with Adrien .

Why Felix receiving a redemption felt wrong .

Hot take - Felix character was ruined in Season 5 (and before you delusional Felix fanboys start typing nonsense and sending death threats , read the rest of the paragraph before judging.) What makes Felix’s character compelling is that he is an anti-hero. He is morally gray and only works for himself. He is on neither Gabe’s or Ladybugs' side. His “ redemption arc” in season 5 came out of nowhere and was badly done. Felix does have potential for a redemption and I am not against it but it would’ve been much better written if his character wasn’t rushed and he was redeemed in later seasons - when he will be an established character. His redemption in season 5 felt poorly written because of how he never proved himself or apologized to Ladybug or faced consequences for his actions. His crimes ranged from SA , assisted terrorism and attempted genocide but only faced consequences for the third crime. Him getting away with his crimes is not a terrible idea if he was portrayed as a villain but since the writers are portraying him to be a hero at the end of S5 , this concept is pretty much ruined. Hopefully , in S6 he turns against the hero team and works with Lila. If you want to read more about my opinions on this Character - please read the post My Thoughts on Felix - anti hero gone wrong on my tumblr.

Double standards of the writers and fanbase

Miraculous ladybug despite being a show that promotes feminism has undertones of misogyny. Felix and Chloe have both done atrocious things - I argue Felix has done worse - but while one person seemingly faces consequences for their actions and is hated by the writers and fanbase , the other character is presented as a tragic hero who doesn’t face punishment and is loved by everyone. Just to make it clear , I am NOT an abuse apologist or a toxic Chloe stan but I can’t just ignore the blatant hypocrisy from the producers.

The writers - more specifically Thomas - says on his twitter Chloe will never change because her actions are deemed too unforgivable and i quote “ Once a bully always a bully” . He also pretty much confirms Chloe will never be Queen bee saying “ Mean people don’t and will never deserve a miraculous”. This rule doesn’t apply to Felix, he is essentially a tragic character who is 100% innocent and deserves forgiveness and ownership of his miraculous despite being a nasty person. I am not denying he isn’t a tragic character - his abuse under Colt explains his motives which made him a compelling anti - hero but doesn’t excuse them. He is also a child too but compared to Chloe - a more malevolent one. The worst thing Chloe did was paralyze the train driver in Queen Wasp to cause a dangerous situation in which she saves everyone in order to get praise. She had selfish reasons but never had the intention of killing anyone. However the worst thing Felix did was mass genocide in Emotion with the malicious intention on murdering all humans. Both are horrible but it's obvious who is worse.

Sure he had better motives of freeing his cousin and Kagami while Chloe only thought of herself but he never apologized to Ladybug or proved himself as a good person to her for what he did. When Chloe nearly killed those people , Ladybug tried taking her Miraculous and it was only after she got deakumitized that she apologized to her and gave her miraculous back. Felix by the end of season 5 got to keep his Miraculous despite not saying sorry to Ladybug or proving himself .She faced the consequence of losing her Miraculous while Felix got to keep his. He has been awful committing crimes such as SA , assisted terrorism , genocide , stalking and kidnapping but seemingly doesn’t face punishment for most of his actions. Chloe crimes although still horrid are much less heinous than Felix's. A terrorist and extremist earns sympathy from the writers but a spoiled bully is painted to be the devil and is the only character to face consequences.

The Double standards the writers have for Chloe are too hard to ignore. Thomas himself mocks a fan who confronts him about the Hypocrisy saying he misinterpreted the show. If Thomas wasn't a hypocrite , he would've answered the question properly instead of ignoring it and mocking the fan . Chloe is no angel too , she bullied Marinette relentlessly, gave her trauma , took over Paris in miracle queen and Revolution, mistreated her friend Sabrina and nearly killed all those people in Paris in Queen Wasp but at least she is held accountable and experienced Karma. Her bullying Marientte causes Adrien to stop being friends with her and her teaming up with HM in Revolution causes Andre to disown her and send her to live with her abusive mother. Felix easily gave Marinette more trauma by exchanging all the miraculous to Monarch and is partly to blame for how Monarch won but Marinette seemingly forgives him and he joins the team. He even gets rewarded with a girlfriend and possession of his miraculous and still doesn't get his Karma. It's so clear the writers favour Felix while Chloe receives the short end of the stick.

The fanbase is not much better , they slander Chloe, glad she is gone from Paris and sent to live with Audrey because they think she is irredeemable but sympathize with Felix and cheer on when he joins the team. When Chloe does something evil , the fandom label her as Satan and only wishes the worst for her but when Felix also acts in a similar way , the fanbase feel sorry for him and defend him saying he does everything he does to ensure his freedom . The fans say the neglect Chloe received from her mum does not excuse her actions but defend Felix's actions by saying " Colt abused him, He isolated and controlled Felix , Felix is blameless and everything is Colt's fault" . While I agree Colt is horrible , he never told Felix to SA Ladybug or to steal the Miraculous or kidnap Kagami. Why does " past trauma doesn't excuse actions" only apply to Chloe not Felix? The writers think this too sadly by how they demonize Chloe telling the fans parental mistreatment doesn't justify bullying, even having Mylene say in the Derision Flashback

" My mother abandoned me but you don't see me bullying Marinette"

But try justifying Felix's actions with his abusive childhood with the play he acted out in Representation.

The hypocrisy of the writers are painted as misogyny even if it is not intentional because Chloe is female and is robbed of a redemption while Felix a male is deemed tragic and is given a second chance. Ultimately , both Characters are horrible people but one is portrayed by the narrative as a hero while the other is an irredeemable , oppressive monster who needs to go down

To conclude , Felix and Chloe are two sides of the same coin. Both are terrible people that deserved punishment . While I’d prefer Chloe getting redemption , I understand that at the end of the day not all people change. However Felix's character is poorly done in Season 5 and is redeemed out of nowhere. What annoys me the most is how Hypocritical the fanbase and writers are that Chloe is hated for being a brat and is not redeemed because she doesn’t show remorse while Felix is adored by the fanbase and is given a redemption despite not apologizing to Ladybug or facing any consequences. Again ,this is not a Chloe defense post or a Felix hate post, just me sharing my view on this. I'm surprised the fandom isn't addressing the similarities between these two characters . I cross my fingers that Felix either turns on the team and becomes the villain again or is held accountable in S6 and Chloe at least receives closure and becomes a better person in future seasons. But these are just my opinions. I’m not saying you are not allowed to like Felix or dislike Chloe. Feel free to disagree : ) . Don’t hate the characters , hate the writing .Please stay respectful.

#miraculous ladybug #mlb salt #mlb #felix fathom #chloe bourgeois #mlb writers salt #hypocrisy #double standards #felix is a victim of bad writing #both chloe and felix are bad #chloe deserves better #so does felix #thomas astruc #astruc salt #ml critique #mlb s5 spoilers #mlb season 5

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hamsteriffic · 2 months

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Miraculous Fandom Stats

Cloudy with a chance of Miraculous

As mentioned in my previous post, the ML fanfics on Ao3 can reflect changing opinions and theories. I wanted to look at this in a more qualitative manner using Ao3 tags, starting with The Miraculous Big Bang (methodology below the cut).

The Miraculous Big Bang is a fandom event that has been running for several years where people collaborate to write fanfics and draw fanart. These collections provide a good snapshot of fanfics written at a particular point in time.

🖤 Word Clouds

The Miraculous Big Bang was run in 2017, 2021, 2022, 2023, which covers a period of six years from Season 1 to Season 5 (see below the cut for more details on the methods).*

2017: There were a lot of tags that mentioned Season 2 spoilers, which suggests that these fics are based off mostly Season 1 content. This collection of fics had a lot of Historical AUs (Sample size: 32) [1].

2021: By now, Luka Couffaine and Kagami Tsurugi feature prominently in the tags for Miraculous Big Bang 2021 (Sample Size: 43 fics) [2].

2022: There are a lot of darker undertones in this word cloud (Sample size: 34 fics).

2023: Noticeable jump in fics labelled for Sentimonsters as well as LGQBTI+ tags (Sample size: 37 fics) [4]

🖤 In summary

Judging from the 2023 big bang, fics were written in the six months prior to posting, so this would cover a pretty sizeable timeframe. For example, Season 2 was aired between December 2017 and November 2018; and introduced rival love interests Luka Couffaine and Kagami Tsurugi.

Luka Couffaine was tagged an average of 10 and Kagami Tsurugi 7.7 times across 2021, 2022 and 2023.

Interestingly, Lila Rossi was introduced in s01e26 (Volpina) and was tagged 8 times in 2023, excluding other tags such as Lila lies, Lila manipulation, Evil Lila Rossi; while tags for Chloe Redemption remained constant (3 fics each in 2017, 2021, 2022, 2023).

* credit to @miraculousbigbang and clairelutra who ran the initial ML Big Bang in 2017, and @mlbigbang who ran the subsequent 2021, 2022 and 2023 Big Bang events.

📈 This Data is a snapshot of the posted fics on Ao3 on

🖤 Acknowledgements

A huge thank you to @miabrown007 and @ryanidious for their help in providing me with information for the mlbigbang 2017!

🖤 Methodology

Sample Collection

Looking at all this quantitative data is fine, but I want to go a bit deeper (but not too deep, I don’t have time to read every single fic). A good way to get an idea on the content of a fic is through the Ao3 tagging system.

I need a way to look through the tags used over time, but this seems like too a mammoth task in Ao3 (more detail on that below the cut).

The good news is that Ao3 has a feature within collections that does that for me!

My instant thought went to the Miraculous Big Bang. It’s perfect because it is an unbiased collection (e.g. if it was a birthday gift or personal collection of recs, the fics would be tailored to the person’s tastes and preferences).

Word Clouds

Word clouds are an interesting tool to quickly look at recurring words. However, major criticisms of this method is that you can lose the context the words are used in. This is a good article to describe considerations when using a word cloud [5]. However, the nature of Ao3 tags is that the context is either inherent or are merely keywords.

Data Cleaning

Now unfortunately this word cloud needed some cleaning to remove commonly used tags. When I first did this all I got was a big image with the words Miraculous, Adrien Agreste, Ladybug, Chat Noir and Marinette Dupain-Cheng, and Miraculous Big Bang which I think you can see is not very informative.

Removed Keywords: Adrien Agreste, Adrienette, Marinette Dupain-Cheng, Ladybug, Chat Noir, Miraculous, Miraculous Big Bang

When these were removed, I put the tags into a free word cloud generator such as https://www.freewordcloudgenerator.com/generatewordcloud.

There is no natural language processing so I have hyphenated common phrases. Ao3's word cloud has already combined the common keywords and enlarged them, so I had to manually check how many times they appear to add them back. It's not exact but it works.

References

[1] Miraculous Big Bang 2017: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/miraculousbang2k17

[2] Miraculous Big Bang 2021: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/MLBB_2021

[3] Miraculous Big Bang 2022: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/MLBB_2022

[4] Miraculous Big Bang 2023: https://archiveofourown.org/collections/MLBB_2023

[5] https://www.betterevaluation.org/methods-approaches/methods/word-cloud

#miraculous fanworks #miraculous ladybug #miraculous fanfic #miraculous fandom #hamster stats #Fandom stats #ao3 stats #mlbigbang #mlbigbang 2023 #mlbigbang 2022 #mlbigbang 2021 #luka couffaine #kagami tsuguri #lila rossi

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galactic-glamour-girl-posts · 10 months

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RANT : ML Season 5's Ending

I don't post about Miraculous much, but I need to get this off my chest.

WARNING :

Salt. Just...all the salt.

Chloe:

I don't like Chloe, she's a horrible person and hogged a lot of screen time throughout the show that could have been given to other characters, such as Nino. However, I find it disturbing that they decided to send a teenage girl to live with her abuser, with absolutely no friends; meanwhile her father, who only deciding to put his foot down last minute, gets to quit the job he's always hated anyway (even though he's abused his power before, and not just for Chloe's sake) without being called out for how he spoiled his daughter AND the adult magical terrorist gets a statue.

Not to mention Felix, a teenage boy who also has done terrible things, basically gets away scot-free. Remember when he basically tried to kill EVERYONE except for four people including himself, remember when he tried to force himself onto Ladybug, remember when he gave all the miraculous to a terrorist, remember when all it took to "redeem" himself was to emotionally manipulate someone in a vulnerable state into watching a play to convince her to solve the problem he caused for him (btw I can't believe Kagami came up with that plan and revealed Ladybug's identity behind her back, what the heck?) I get that he was abused, at the end of the day he's an abuse victim doing literally anything he can to gain the freedom he never had, but if he gets sympathy after all of that, what about Chloe? She was abused, she was neglected. Felix not only is seemingly forgiven and "redeemed", but still gets to be a permanent miraculous holder. When you combine that with how the narrative treats Gabriel and Andre, it looks like a sexist double standard...probably because it is.

Chloe sucks but that isn't entirely her fault. Andre spoiled her rotten, Audrey was a horrible influence when she wasn't straight up neglecting or verbally abusing her, Miss Bustier coddled her and Damocles let her get away with pretty much anything (although in their case I guess the mayor would've prevented them from letting Chloe face substantial consequences), Gabriel (and Lila) manipulated her multiple times. I'm not absolving Chloe of all blame, but she's 14. Leaving her with her abuser is horrible. That isn't cathartic, it's cruel. I'm not even asking for a redemption, I just think this "punishment" is too much.

Gabriel (and Tomoe too I guess):

Let's talk more about Gabriel. Gabriel, the abusive father, the magical terrorist, the guy that spent some of his final moments manipulating a teen, not only gets to make his wish, but also gets to be remembered as a hero. Statue included. Never mind that pretty much all of Adrien's classmates knew he was a terrible father at this point, they all clap and cheer when it's revealed he's getting a statue. The whole world is lied to and told the Alliance rings were hijacked by Monarch and that Gabriel sacrificed himself whilst trying to help stop him (I don't blame Ladybug for that though, I'm solely blaming the writers here). And we're supposed to be fine with this because he misses his wife and "tried to be a good father"? No.

An abused teenage girl is supposedly terrible beyond redemption, but an adult abuser is essentially outright vindicated by the narrative (the person he abused is tricked into thinking he was a hero, and Paris is basically a utopia post-wish). What a horrible message.

Remember, this may not be the end of the show, but this is the end of Gabriel's Agreste's story, and what an unfitting end it is.

Oh, and Tomoe gets away scot-free by the looks of it, because of course. Maybe she'll get comeuppance in a later season, but I'm not gonna defend the finale because of what a future episode might do, especially when this would've been the perfect time (and this goes for the possibility of Gabriel's secret identity being revealed to the public too).

Adrien:

I think Adrien is easily the most overrated character in the show. He's constantly coddled by the narrative, tends to "inspire" Marinette to be more passive and forgiving than she should be, and is incredibly bland (or at least he was until they started pushing just how angry he could get and how entitled to Ladybug's love he could feel, which I guess is something, but that something sure isn't pleasant); but you're telling me he doesn't get to have a legit passion beyond knowing he loves Marinette, to be involved in the final battle, to find out his dad is Monarch OR even that he's a sentimonster? He needs to know his life is tied to that ring and that he should be careful with it. This isn't "protecting him" (he's not a baby, if Felix eventually came to terms with being a sentimonster so can Adrien), if anything it's the opposite. Not letting him know that is dangerous! If not Marinette, Felix? Kagami? Nathalie? No one's going to tell him?! I hate to say it, but by robbing him of his agency and deciding they know what's best for him, they're being controlling over Adrien too; and no, I don't think that's "interesting", not after five seasons of Adrien already being controlled by someone else.

What is the show even trying to say? That Adrien needs to be controlled because he can't handle his emotions? Forget about giving him time or a good support system, he just wouldn't be able to handle it? If it was just his nightmare that'd be one thing, but Chat Blanc seems to indicate this is legitimately what they're saying. Why is this show trying to portray an abuse victim as someone who's dangerous and needs to be kept under control? Not just dangerous, but ultimately more dangerous than his abuser, since Gabriel made his wish and everything turned out fine (and at worst maybe one innocent person would have died/fallen into a coma had his wish not changed), but in "Chat Blanc" EVERYONE other than Chat died.

It does not matter if he finds out in a later season; it doesn't change the fact that his family is willingly lying to him and potentially endangering him by doing so, all for the sake of his abuser. Sure, you could argue Gabriel emotionally manipulated Marinette, but what's everyone else's excuse? I don't care if it leads to "interesting conflict", a) it's a conflict they've done before (Ladybug keeping secrets from Chat Noir), I'm not gonna praise the show for repeating itself, b) don't tell me telling Adrien the truth would've been "too sad" for the show to do but Marinette having to keep her mouth shut about Gabriel for the rest of her life (or even temporarily) is "interesting angst" (at least try to hide your favouritism, besides it's never even implied she feels guilty over this), and c) it's not like it will have a satisfying payoff, after all, it didn't last time. Even if Adrien does find out, Gabriel's not around anymore, so chances are Marinette will have to suffer the consequences of that, not Gabriel. That's not satisfying.

Like...Gabriel may as well have been related to Marinette instead (not her father but her uncle or something). Why not? Remember when he was her favourite fashion designer? (Don't worry if you don't, the show doesn't either.) Maybe have him become her mentor, imagine how much more of a personal impact Ladybug and Monarch finding out each other's identities could've had on both of them.

Why even have the main villain be related to the deuteragonist (giving him a closer connection to the main villain of the show than the actual main character) if you were just gonna side-line him in the final battle and rob him of any sense of closure? Whatever drama they can squeeze out of him finding out who Monarch is (IF he does) won't be nearly as interesting as it would've been to see Chat Noir confront Monarch, face to face, knowing that he's his father. Adrien might not even remember Gabriel being abusive at all, it's not made clear. But if he doesn't, all that time spent on Adrien's relationship with his father, building up a big confrontation between them? Wasted.

Remember how season 4 ended? How it built up Ladybug and Chat Noir working together to retrieve all the Miraculous back, after a season of them being more distant?

What a joke.

Is he the deuteragonist, or a trophy? The show can't seem to decide.

Marinette:

And then there's Marinette who, in a show that supposedly wants to empower young girls, doesn't even get to defeat the main male bad guy. After multiple seasons with her as the main lead, after multiple episodes where she's apologised or made to feel bad for either completely justifiable reactions or things that straight up weren't her fault (remember when she was made to say she was "out of line" at the end of an episode that was supposed to be about racism and police aggression?) meanwhile other characters rarely apologise to her in return, we don't even get the satisfaction of seeing her truly defeat the person that's caused her so much grief.

Seriously, she went through so much in this show; between the class consistently siding with Lila over her (btw turns out Lila basically had nothing to lose the whole time because she had multiple identities, yet another unsatisfying conclusion to a conflict), being forced to become a guardian, losing all the Miraculous, etc, and for what?

She failed. That's not me being too harsh. She may have influenced Gabriel to change his wish (emphasis on "may have", I'm pretty sure that woman was originally Emilie but in that case Nathalie being healed doesn't make sense), but her goal was to prevent the wish in the first place.

And why did they have to make her look like a fool? Felix's play spelled it out for her that Gabriel is Monarch, she even realises that he referred to the day she lost the Miraculous, but from the way it's presented she only figures out Gabe's Monarch after seeing him de-transform? Why did she think giving him a another chance would turn out well? She tried that all the way back in season 2, and it didn't work. Marinette is kind-hearted but she has her limits. You're telling me Lila crossed a line but Monarch could maybe be reasoned with? Why? Because he has a sob story?

Marinette is strategic and quick-witted. She's not an idiot.

Gabriel gets to make his wish and everyone else (who am I kidding, just Ladybug) has to clean up after him. Not only that, Ladybug does him a favour and ensures everyone is tricked into believing he was a hero. If anything, Chat Noir, the main male superhero, landed the killing blow.

Great. Just great. How empowering.

Bonus nit-picks:

--Did everyone on the planet seriously forget that the Adrien and Kagami in the Alliance rings aren't real, they're virtual simulations? That wasn't a secret. How did they fall for Gabriel's fake plea?

--If they were gonna put the girls from the specials and Future!Alix on the poster, they could've have them do more at least.

--Okay, Luka training with Su-Han was random but I guess since he was a temporary Miraculous holder it kinda makes sense...Penny and ESPECIALLY Jagged though? Nah.

--Ivan was the first person to EVER be akumatized then saved by Ladybug and Chat Noir. So with that in mind, surely he more than anyone would trust that they'd never kidnap two virtual innocent people, and would join Alya in reminding everyone else how they were always there for them, in a touching moment that brings the "first arc" full circle...oh.

--Look, Marinette is very talented, and I realise she had the book to help her but...I'm sorry literally HOW did she fix the Miraculous? Gabriel needed high-tech, presumably very expensive, machinery to re-shape them.

Final thoughts:

What makes this all sting so much more is that, wasn't season 5 supposed to be the original ending, just in case future seasons didn't happen? All seasons after this one are basically bonus seasons. So originally the show ended HERE. The last we would've seen of Chloe was her crying, trapped with her abusive mother. For all we knew Adrien would've been living a lie the rest of his life, looking up to his abuser. Gabriel is never fully revealed as the monster he truly was and is honoured as a "hero". Marinette literally gets stabbed in the back (well, it was her stomach, but you get the idea). There wasn't even a reveal, Ladybug and Chat Noir would've just never found out who the other truly is I guess.

Oh, but don't worry. Marinette and Adrien kissed.

That's all that really matters, right? (Never mind the fact that they spent five seasons building up to the start of a romantic relationship, and it will undoubtedly take even more for it to become a healthy one.)

Maybe the ending was originally different. Maybe they modified the ending of the season finale after finding out season 5 wouldn't be the last season. Maybe this will all somehow be fixed later (no matter how long they may will drag it out for).

Or maybe Marinette's blatantly out of character action (she hates liars, and only lied about her identity because she had to, even considering Gabriel's attempts to emotionally manipulate her previous episodes have made it clear she would not lie to Adrien, let alone the WHOLE WORLD, about Gabriel) will come back to bite her for the sake of having something to blame her for next season.

I don't know.

I don't care.

The writing for this show has been poor for a LONG time. I only stuck around because I still found myself having fun watching it from time to time, even as the problems got worse. That, and I was hopeful it would at least stick the landing. But after this, I don't think I can stomach continuing to watch a show that will probably continue to push such awful messages, and with such awful pacing.

Word of advice, all shows have flaws, so feel free to complain when a show does something you think is stupid (I've never found the argument that kids shows shouldn't be criticised because they're kid shows to make sense), but if you're not enjoying yourself because you can't overlook a show's problems, if you don't find pleasure in watching a show...just stop watching it. It's a waste of your time. Don't "wait for it to get good", don't wait for future seasons to clean up a current season's mess, don't continue watching it just because the fandom makes better content. I promise you there are better shows out there that deserve (and need) your attention.

So with that in mind...I don't think I'll be watching what comes next.

#miraculous ladybug #ml spoilers #ml salt #ml writing salt #marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste #gabriel agreste #chloe bourgeois #marinette deserves better #a lot of characters deserve better tbh #you can argue “b-but season 6 will probably-” all you want season 6 won't change stuff like CN being left out or Chloe's “punishment”

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princess-of-the-corner · 5 months

Note

Ok the post about the double standard treatment of Felix vs Chloe gat me thinking

In a better written show, Felix and Chloe could have been pretty good foils for breaking a cycle of abuse vs perpetuating one

Like, imagine a version of the show where Miracle Queen is just a tragic backslide but over the course of S4 Chloe gets her proper redemption arc completed, meanwhile Felix is shown to be unwilling to let others in, doubling down on being very 'me and mine first' by handing almost all of the Miraculous to Gabriel and actually being called out for genociding an entire planet instead of getting a girlfriend

Yeah it's.

ML is just. So. So close to the idea of narrative foils. They have several characters set up to be foils! Mari vs. Gabriel. Alya vs. Lila. Adrien vs. Felix. Adrien vs. Lila. Chloé vs. Lila vs. Felix vs. Zoé vs. Adrien.

But the closest they come to 'following through' on it is

1.) Chloé vs. Zoé, except without any nuance of the situation at hand and just 'haha one's good and one's evil!'

2.) Mari vs. Gabriel, except their parallels are a totally good thing that shows what good people both of them are!

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anxresi · 1 year

Text

Chloe Bourgeois.

Imagine spending five years of your life investing in a character.

Imagine watching S1, noticing the subtle signs of a redemption arc slotting into place, and being totally on board.

Imagine seeing S2 and loving her realistic development, the superhero she becomes and the positive changes that carry onto her civilian life. (Apart from one scene of Marinette ‘encouraging’ her to bond with her mother by being as nasty as possible... yeah).

Imagine watching S3 and being disappointed that, for the most part, things seems to have come to a grinding halt with her storyline as the show obsesses with a stupid romance that goes nowhere. “Well at least the finale can’t make things... oh.”

Imagine in S4 not only pretending 3 seasons of promising development never happened, but stripping her of all humanity to turn her into a psychopathic sociopath so eevviill she makes Lila look like a girl scout by comparison.

Imagine this radical character sabotaging done with no build-up or foreshadow whatsoever, because apparently people decide to become nihilistic maniacs overnight. As you do.

Imagine introducing the most bland, flavourless, boring, pointless, arbitrary, unnecessary, nothing character EVER. (Thank you online thesaurus)

Imagine expecting her to replace Chloe in our hearts and minds, one of the emotionally rich and complex individuals at one point in time... (Until Thomas Astruc got his way)

Imagine, to add insult to injury, her name rhymes with Chloe’s, they have VERY similar color schemes, they’re sisters AND this new nobody steals her position as QB a mere two episodes later. Thomas rubbing it in? NEVER!!

Imagine destroying in short order what few relationships Chloe has left, including the precious bond she shared with her father and childhood best friend, so you can paint her as EVIL ALL ALONG.

Imagine quitting the show at this point, for your mental health’s sake and the fact the writing is objectively THE WORST, only to be bombarded with more canonical bullshit when you log onto tumblr to look at (again, objectively) the far superior fandom works.

Imagine reading what happens to Chloe during S5 thanks to Zag’s airtight security methods, and no longer being upset because now the whole sorry farce borders on bad parody. When I approach it in that frame of mind, it doesn’t bother me half as much. Hello coping mechanism!!

......................

This post was inspired by something I read online about Chloe’s eventual fate compared to Gabriel’s, and the contrast between the ignominious end of a troubled teenage girl and the tears shed for a ruthless terrorist who tried to murder THOUSANDS of people was... definitely something.

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. So, I’ll just try this:

#chloe bourgeois #miraculous #miraculous ladybug #ladybug #ml salt #disney #ml spoilers #Marinette Dupain-Cheng #adrien agreste #Zoe Lee #Chloe

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awholelotofladybug · 1 year

Conversation

Canon vs Fanon

Canon Chloé: You two are ridiculous!

Canon Lila: Not to mention weak. You actually caved and became friends with Marinette? Pathetic.

AU Chloé: We're pathetic? Are you kidding me? I'm not the one who has to use my best friend to do my homework for me... Anymore... What's more, I have more friends, REAL friends, than you've ever had, a boyfriend who loves me, and a healthier relationship with my family.

AU Lila: And at least I embrace who I am. Your name might not even really be Lila. And I don't have to leech off a supervillain to feel important. *takes AU Chloé's hand* And my friendships are based off love and forgiveness, not lies and empty promises.

Canon Chloé: Whatever. It doesn't matter.

Canon Lila: At the end of the day, we're the originals and you're not.

AU Lila: We don't care! We still exist!

AU Chloé: And if being canon means having to be anything like you, then maybe we don't want to be! *starts to leave* And by the way, Marinette is a great friend, in yours and a lot of other universes. And I pity you because you will never know.

#miraculous laybug #canon vs fanon #fanon vs canon #lila rossi #chloe bourgeois #lila rossi redemption #chloe bourgeois redemption #post redemption chloe #post redemption lila #stammering adrien au

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theerurishipper · 6 months

Note

Love reading your analysis post. Thought I'd bring one into the table and let you read my thoughts on a certain character.

.................................. Frankly, I never truly regarded Chloe's character, particularly in her capacity as Marinette's "bully" during Season 1, with the seriousness it seemed to attract. While many viewers hold strong negative sentiments toward her character, my exposure to various novels and manga has shown me instances where characters akin/similar to Chloe were portrayed with greater depth and nuance. In these narratives, authors skillfully delved into the character's animosity towards the protagonist, often weaving a compelling backstory that shed light on how resentment stemming from a childhood marked by neglect or abuse could transform an individual into a more morally compromised figure.

Sometimes, these characters underwent substantial development and personal growth, whereas in other cases, they remained stagnant, allowing the main character to recognize and acknowledge this stasis. This literary divergence underscores the difference in storytelling approaches between Thomas Astruc and many of the creators in the manga and novel realms I've encountered. While Chloe's character in "Miraculous Ladybug" might have played a minor antagonistic role the Astruc creator intent appeared to extend no valuable lessons. In doing so, he presented characters like Chloe as just plain evil while the ones I've encountered with authors would rather use their antagonistic and bully characters as cautionary examples, demonstrating the potential consequences of their actions, whether they ultimately experienced redemption or not.

I find it challenging to take the strong animosity towards Chloe seriously, particularly because of Astruc himself and his own hatred for her, as the creator of a children's magical girl cartoon, it's crucial in my opinion to maintain a clear boundary between one's professional role and personal life. The fusion of personal grievances with one's job can only exacerbate anger and resentment, which is counterproductive. I believe that past personal matters, whatever they may be, should not influence the production of a children's show, as these shows have a profound impact on their viewers.

Miraculous Ladybug, being a widely popular series among both children and adults, should have been carefully considered for its messaging. It's perplexing that the show wasn't discontinued earlier, considering the negative messages that the writing team appears to be conveying. The fandom may also share some of the responsibility; perhaps they've had encounters with individuals akin to Chloe in their own lives, which contributes to their strong reactions. Regardless, the show has already garnered a substantial amount of criticism for Chloe's character. Why the fandom continues to perpetuate and even endorse such negativity remains unclear. Furthermore, the fanbase's inclination to label her as psychopathic and devoid of any redemption, in similar way to Marinette's belief that she can never change, is bewildering and raises valid concerns.

When I mentioned that I never perceived Chloe as Marinette's "bully," I understand that this perspective may not be universally shared. To me, Chloe never posed a genuine threat, unlike Lila, whose manipulative nature was far more concerning. Chloe struck me as someone who was all talk and little action, often emphasizing her privileged background by calling out for her father's help.

In an ironic twist, I actually view Chloe as Marinette's rival more than her tormentor. It's intriguing how Marinette and the rest of their class didn't cower in fear of Chloe. Despite her wealth, Chloe seemed to attract little genuine affection from her peers, as most interactions with her revolved around attempts to control or exploit her, or simply to gain something from her. The way even the show's creators seemed to discard her character makes me sympathize with her on a different level.

Perhaps it's a sign of growing older, but I now perceive Chloe as a rather pitiable character. I can't muster any anger towards her, and witnessing the fandom labeling her as "evil" only makes me inclined to challenge such judgments. If this is how they perceive a child, then they might benefit from reconnecting with reality, as this is a rather misguided and stupid perspective on their part.

I suspect what really irks the anti-Chloe faction is that we choose to empathize with her, even though it may not align with their perspective. It's important to clarify that we're not in the business of justifying or excusing her actions or behavior, nor are we hiding behind her parents' shortcomings as a shield for her conduct. Instead, we're highlighting a nuanced aspect that's often overlooked in the fandom.

It's also worth acknowledging that in this fan community, there's a tendency to grant leniency, especially when it comes to Marinette, often attributing her actions to her age of 14. It's somewhat peculiar how this grace isn't uniformly extended to all characters, with Adrien, for instance, being a prime example. That sort of being a hypocrite.

When it comes to Chloe, I can't help but feel a sense of pity—a very human emotion. I believe there might be individuals out there who have experienced something akin to Chloe's situation, or perhaps they've been a little like her in their own past. If the show's creator chose not to redeem her character and allowed her to spiral further, it wouldn't necessarily be a problem, as long as they conveyed her role as a cautionary tale.

Beneath all the layers of her character, Chloe emerges as a profoundly desolate 14-year-old. I may not particularly like her, but recognizing the underlying sadness in her character is something I believe many people can relate to.

What the point of this show exactly? I thought Magical girls shows were to inspire hope. If the protagonist herself deems her to far gone then what the point. I thought a magical girl is one who doesn't lose hope and to inspire characters like Chloe not to damn her.

I'm glad you like my posts!

And as for your analysis, I don't have anything else to add! It's a great analysis of Chloe. I do agree that Chloe's relationship with Marinette is rather vague. If Chloe did bully Marinette, which I'm not denying, then it's played for laughs more than anything, which makes it confusing as to just what their dynamic was like. Chloe is a bully, but her actions are never taken seriously by the narrative, which sends a muddled message when you start to pretend Marinette was deeply mentally scarred by this when you've spent 5 seasons making a joke out of it.

In the series, Marinette has more of a rivalry with Chloe until Seasons 4 and 5 decided to pretend Chloe was some kind of serious threat whose only go to move wasn't yelling for her daddy all the time. In Origins, Marinette seems more disgruntled than actually troubled that Chloe is in her class again, and even snaps back at her when Chloe does that thing with the bubblegum. Chloe is just the mean-girl archetype, someone with whom the main character has a rivalry. And I personally do interpret Marinette and Chloe's dynamic as one where Chloe bullied Marinette and I am really not going to downplay that, but I also see where it can come off differently, considering the show never really portrays Chloe as a significant threat. Clearly there are scenes in certain episodes where Chloe is being a bully which are taken seriously, but a lot of the time they are not. It's just the archetype, it's up to one's own interpretation.

Thank you for your ask!

#MLB #Miraculous Ladybug #Chloe Bourgeois #Marinette Dupain Cheng #Ladybug #Meta #My meta #Asks #ML Salt #Marinette Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #ML Fandom Salt

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stormiclown · 1 year

Text

Master post (& fics I’m planning to write)

Ladies and Gentlemen: My take on Adrien having his own antagonist like Marinette has Lila and Chloe. A new transfer students makes an enemy of the entire class, but Adrien seems to be his main target.

Part 1 Part 2 Headcannons

Status: Completed (maybe)

Let Her Eat Cake: A one shot in which Lila is exposed as Hawkmoth’s ally, which opens up questions about Francois DuPont. In other words, Bustier is accused of being Mayura.

Read Here

Status: Completed

Lila’s Reflection: A one shot in which Lila has a twin sister who she feels inferior against. Includes Lilanette, Male Marinette, and Lila angst.

Read Here

Status: Completed

Marion Dupain-Cheng: Ice Cold: So we know the umbrella scene where Adrien basically pulls his “sad boy” card to make Marinette feel bad for him? Realistically, she shouldn’t have fallen in love with him just like that. I think she should have been wary of him because of his association with Chloe or outright hate him after he scolded her for being happy that Chloe was leaving. Or in ’Bubbler’ when all he cared about was having a party and not that adults we’re literally being launched into the sky. Or in ‘Despair Bear’ after a day of forced niceties he laughed when Chloe insulted Mylene’s macaroons. Long story short, Marinette shouldn’t have tolerated Adrien for as long as she did much less have a crush on him. If she did, it should’ve been obliterated by now. (This is a Drabble)

Read Here

Status: Completed

A Beetle’s Blossom: The members of the Justice League have seen many things. The deaths and resurrection of some of their comrades, alien doomsdays, off planet missions, and the literal destruction of the world. But the boy who *strongly* resembles Bruce in more ways than just his appearance has them stumped, especially Bruce himself.

On AO3

Status: On going

Fics That Are Coming Soon

The Most Hated Girl in Paris: An AU where instead of getting off Scott free, Chloe is legally punished for the Train Incident and has to deal with the fact that’s she’s Paris’ most hated girl. She must decide if she wants to continue living this way or if she’s going to claw her way to redemption. Long term project.

Tumblr Concept

Status: Not started

Not So Miraculous After all: Tired of citizens justifying their reckless behavior with the Miraculous Cure, Ladybug stops using it, making sure that consequences get left behind.

Status: Not Started

The Fall of A Queen (C. Bourgeois): An Au where Andre isn’t re-elected as Mayor. This changes everything. Long term project.

Status: Not Started

Cuisine Paradise: Seeing as both their parents work in the food industry, Alya and Marinette decide to start a YouTube channel together to share their recipes; Marinette’s pastries and Alya’s dinner recipes. It all in good fun and they accidentally become famous. Long term project.

Status: Not Started

New Boy In Town (Remy Gasteau): The son of the Prime Minister transfers to Francois DuPont and takes an interest in Marinette. Extremely long term project.

Based on an ask I submitted to @mcheang

Status: Not Started

Civil War (Paris Edition): No matter how hard Lila tries, the class refuses to turn against Marinette, believing that Lila was just confused and there was a misunderstanding. In an attempt to get the girls to help her with Adrien, she insists that Marinette would go great with Luka. It was a brilliant plan— until war breaks out over the class. Lukanette vs Adrienette. Short term project.

Status: Not Started

Round the World Trip: After winning a series of contests, essay challenges, and competitions, Marion unintentionally earned his class a fully paid global trip over summer vacation. Includes Male Marinette and shenanigans. Mid-length project.

Status: Not Started

Damian’s Secret Brother: After ruining any chance at a brotherly relationship with Tim after his murder attempts, Damian Wayne is determined to prove that he wasn’t just a brutish assassin. The discovery of his newest biological brother provided him with the opportunity to show everyone that he could be civil with new family members. But he didn’t think he would get attached to the friendly baker’s boy who had ambitions to be a fashion designer. Male Marinette and bio-dad Bruce Wayne. Mid-length project.

Status: Not Started

#ml au #miraculous fanfiction #miraculous fanfic #ml salt #ml sugar #ml writers salt #masterpost #going to write later #Cannon has failed so I am its new master #but school is annoying so it’ll have to wait until summer #ml masterpost

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immaturityofthomasastruc · 5 months

Note

I'm pretty sure that Marinette's speech to Adrien about Lila in "Revelation" was ripped straight from one of Thomas Astruc's Twitter threads about Chloé (the one where he compared her fans who wanted her to have a redemption arc to abuse apologists).

(The post this anon is referring to)

Honestly, I can see the similarities here.

#immaturity of thomas astruc #iota #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug salt #thomas astruc #thomas astruc salt #marinette dupain cheng #ladybug #adrien agreste #cat noir #chat noir #chloe bourgeois #queen bee #queen b

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friendly-neighborhood-kinnie · 8 months

Text

Shadybug & Claw Noir

I've seen so many theories about this, and I'm not super active in the fandom outside of occasionally looking on tumblr, being on miraculous tik tok, and writing and posting fics and thoughts on the show.

But I have some theories about the Paris special I want to share.

So from my knowledge the SB & CN universe isn't canonically the opposite of "our" universe. It's just a popular theory (that I like). So my thought process is this.

What if everything is almost the same, but Marinette and Adrien just finally snap on both sides of the mask. Like as LB & CN they had enough of Parisians not fully understanding or appreciating what they do for Paris, and like what if someone dies and they're blamed and they snap? Then as Marinette and Adrien Marinette is just tired of everyone not believing her when it comes it Lila and everything just gets worse and she snaps. Then on Adrien's side, assuming he's not a sentibeing in this universe, and he's just tired of his father being the way he is and tired of having to work with Lila, and tired of his friends outside of Marinette not noticing that he's tired of fame and such so he snaps.

And what if this leads to an identity reveal? And they decide that they're done being heroes. Now this is where I think SB & CN wanting to merge miraculous (or whatever miraculous some theories have as the wish one ) what if they still don't, the thought of working with Papillion, who at this point is still evil, has crossed their thoughts but then he wants their miraculous and they still understand a wish will be way to dangerous and unpredictable. So they work against Papillion and Paris in revenge.

Then in their civilian life they kinda just keep to themselves and are noticeabley more assholish. So Gabriel notices and SB & CN have just come into the picture and they're not holding ANYTHING back and Gabriel (unfortunately) has some type of redemption arc and starts to Akumatize people to stop SB & CN. And he tries to help his son who just wants nothing to do with him.

Now my second theory is a bit simpler.

We all know that in canon the Miraculous have been used throughout history for good, the miraculous' soul purpose is to be used for good.

So, what if in this universe, the Miraculous have been used for bad and evil through history.

So when Master Fu looses the two miraculous they fall into the wrong hands (Gabriel and Emilie) but in the way if these two are such good people that they don't use these miraculous for bad ever.

No matter what I just hope the Kwamii aren't treated badly.

I will cry if they are.

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little-miss-understood · 1 year

Text

Miraculous Ladybug and "Girl Power"

This post will not be about Marinette, as I've already gone over in previous posts of mine how I think the series lets her down in numerous different ways and if I were to add them all in here again it would overshadow everything else.

And "everything else", in this respect, involves the other female classmates and how they've all been let down in various ways by the whims of the creators and the writing team.

(Which bears worth mentioning at this point are majority male. The creator of the series is male, the main producer is male, and quite a bit of the writer's room over various years has been male.)

These various decisions in poor storytelling have led to, in some cases, the characters themselves becoming points of division within the fandom. Which also isn't something seen in other fandoms, at least not to the same extent I've witnessed in this one.

This is going to be long, so let's get going.

Alix: Ends up having to leave her class, and family, and exist "somewhere in time" until the Butterfly Miraculous is claimed back. However, since in the finale of Season 5 it gets lost again, ultimately she is gone for an undetermined length of time. Also she might become her own grandmother.

Rose: An undefined mysterious "illness" plagues her, and that it can come back at "any time", but it's not defined, therefore a Sword of Damocles is always hanging over her.

Sabrina: Essentially a slave to Chloe, shown at one point to actually be locked in a closet while being forced to do the homework of her "best friend". Is oblivious to how poorly she's being treated.

Juleka: At some point over between Seasons 3 and 4, was retconned into being the "twin" of Luka, which had the added effect of making her fail a year of school and so was held back. May or may not be in love with Rose, it's not something that will ever be properly defined.

Mylene: A character whose design incorporates her hair into rainbow dreads, which is a quagmire of appropriation.

Lila: A master manipulator that, for some reason, is able to fool various kids and adults and is able to flex between three different families. Has essentially become a caricature as her background leads to disbelief, and has been chosen to be the future Hawkmoth on top of that all.

Alya: Due to choices made when meeting Lila and with the continuation of believing certain things said by her, over Marinette, and also for various choices made while being a hero, Alya's position in the fandom has turned out to be divisive enough that "Alya Salt" is a genre of fanfiction on AO3.

Chloe: Originally on the road to redemption, things took a turn during Season 3 and ultimately Chloe paid the price of decisions made behind the scenes. Presented as even more evil than Hawkmoth, her future is one of being stuck with her abusive mother.

Zoe: Introduced in Season 4, Zoe is Chloe's sister and "replacement", in more ways than one. Not only does she get the Bee Miraculous, she also gets Chloe's biological father. Also has a crush on Marinette and it's actually shown in the show before Marinette lets her down gently as nothing can get in the way of the Love Square.

Kagami: Stuck alongside another abusive parent who disregards her artistic talent despite being blind, Kagami is eventually revealed to be a Sentimonster and will be in a relationship with a person who has shown to be disrespectful, and also said pairing came out of nowhere.

That's just a short list, and again it doesn't include everything with Marinette.

Such "Girl Power", am I right?

#ml salt

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ladylynse · 2 months

Text

Secret Trio/Secret Quartet three sentence fics below the cut! For more like this, see my other three sentence fics/crossover three sentence fics, my tumblr fic masterpost, random WIP scenes and snippets, fic ideas, or find me on FFnet and the AO3! Also, take a peek at the fanart and fanfic I’ve been gifted.

If you like my work, you can consider buying me a coffee. (I write thank you snippets–which could be an expansion of a three sentence fic if you like!)

Adrien and Plagg (”watching idols”) Jake and Adrien (”painting” x2) Jake and Randy (“trapped”) Randy, Jake, (Danny, Adrien) (“rat”) Danny, Adrien, Randy, Jake (”Hide”) Adrien, Jake, Danny, Randy (”Jake, who is Rose?”) Jake and Danny (”TUE happened”) Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Chat Noir (”failed over and over again”) Adrien, Jake, Danny, Randy, Marinette (“redemption/corruption”, ”path of destruction”) Marinette, Jake, Danny, Randy, (Adrien) (”shoulder to cry on”) Adrien, Marinette, Danny, Randy, Jake (”Hello, Ladybug” x2) Danny, Adrien, Jake, (Randy) (”hey, guys, where’s ---?”) Adrien, Randy, Jake, Danny (”I-I can’t hear his heartbeat”) //death alt (more painful) version | follow up Marinette, Danny, (Adrien, Lila, Elliot) (”Lila and Elliot”, “liars”, ”two peas in a pod”) Lila and Elliot (”partners in crime”) Jake, Randy, Danny, Adrien (”power/mind swap”) Randy, Jake, Rose, (Danny, Adrien) (”meeting Rose post Hong Kong Longs”) | related Jake, Randy, (Danny, (Adrien)) (”80 word challenge”) Randy, Adrien, (Danny, Jake) (”ghost king au”, “ghosts vs magical creatures”) Danny, (Randy, First Ninja, (Adrien, Jake)) (”ghost king au”, “Danny helps Randy remain the Ninja”) Randy, (Danny, Jake) (”about being mind-wiped”) Jake, Danny (Randy, ((Adrien)) (”there’s no one left”) Jake, Randy, Adrien, (Danny) (”Danny tells them about Dani”) Randy and Marinette (”Ladybug mistakes one of the SQ for an akuma”) Marinette, Adrien, (Danny, Randy, Jake) (”SQ post ML reveal”) Adrien, Danny, (Randy, Jake, Plagg) (”temporary power swap”) Danny, Adrien, Randy, (Jake) (”identity reveal of Danny Phantom”) Susan, Jake, Jonathan, (Danny, Adrien, Randy) (”parents find out”) Adrien, Danny, (Randy, Jake) (”legacy”) Adrien, Jake, Danny, (Randy, Luka) (”snake”) Danny, (Jake, Randy, Adrien, Jack, Maddie) (”Fentons find out”, “angst with a happy ending”) Randy (”Randy remembers”) Adrien, Jake, Randy, (Danny) (”bee”) Randy, Jake, (Danny, Adrien) (”comic book”) Danny, Jake, (Randy, Adrien, Vlad) (”Uncle Vlad AU”) Danny, Randy, (Adrien, Jake) (”broken sky”)

Adrien, Danny, Randy, (Jake) (”siblings”) Jake and Adrien (”Rotwood”) Ladybug, Adrien, (Danny, Randy, Jake) (”reinforcements”) Randy, (Adrien, Jake, Danny) (”prophetic dream”) Randy, Danny, (Adrien, Jake, Ghostwriter) (”true friendship”) Jake, Plagg, (Adrien, Danny, Jake) (”that was you?”) Randy, Adrien, (Jake, Danny) (”frostbite”) Danny, Randy, Jake, Adrien (”first date help”) Adrien, Randy, (Danny, Jake) (”apocalypse”) Danny, Jake, (Adrien, Gramps, Haley, Fu Dog, Susan, Jonathan) (”escape from NYC) Randy, Adrien, (Danny, Jake) (”Stabby the roomba”) Randy, Adrien, (Danny, Jake) (”love square”) Jazz, (Haley, Howard) (”evil clones”) Adrien and Danny (”discovered”) Adrien, Randy, Danny, (Jake) (”war zone”) Jake, (Adrien, Randy, Danny) (”Miracle Queen”) Debbie, Theresa, (Adrien, Randy) (”cartwheel”) Heidi, Jake, (Howard, Randy, Danny, Adrien) (”busted”) now expanded FF | AO3 Jake, Randy, (Danny, Adrien) (”nasty sauce”) Bunnyx (”Chat Blanc”) Jacques (”inspiration”) Danny, Plagg, Adrien, (Jake, Randy) (”Box Ghost”) Plagg, Danny, Randy, (Jake, Adrien) (”blood magic”) Gabriel and Desiree (”be careful what you wish for”) Adrien, Jake, Randy, Danny (”what are you?”) Randy, Jake, (Danny, Adrien) (”he treats us well”) Randy, Jake, (Danny, Adrien) (”mermaids”) Jake, (Randy, Danny, Adrien, Gregory) (”arrogance”) Ladybug/Marinette and Adrien (”confessions”) Marty, (Randy, Danny, Adrien, Jake) (”entire world”) Danny, (Randy, Adrien, Jake) (”fire”, “reveal”) Jake, Danny, (Randy, Adrien) (”grenade”) Jake, Danny, (Adrien, Randy) (”mercenary”) Randy, Debbie, (Danny, Adrien, Jake) (”Debbie/Randy”) Adrien, Jake, Danny, Randy (”new year”) Jake, Adrien, (Danny, Randy) (”fallout”) Danny, Adrien, Jake, (Randy) (”stargazing”)

Now on the AO3 Randy, Debbie, Adrien, (Danny, Jake) (”Kangham”, “hide”)

#secret quartet #secret trio #danny phantom #miraculous ladybug #rc9gn #adjl #dp #gf #american dragon jake long #randy cunningham 9th grade ninja #three sentence fics #three sentence fic #my writing #ladylynse #fic masterpost #masterpost #guess where my links kept breaking

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