#neutral syscourse

[luxraysyscourse]

My experience on both sides of syscourse.

Pre syscourse/context

When I realized I was a system, I did hide it for years. I realized about 11 when I saw systems online and realized I personally related to a lot of their experiences. Especially the way they acted, the way they would interact with themselves. For years, I believed everyone had other 'people' or thought processes not of their own. That they could disappear when they were stressed. I know now that's not true, and only in 2020 did I really start getting into syscourse.

Pro Endo

I was pro endo for a few years, and I was a pretty vocal person about it. I was Pro Everything that wasn't illegal, and I was under the impression that as a concept it was harmless. But, being in the community I saw alot of flaws, I saw toxicity within the community. I was fakeclaimed and as a system we labeled ourselves as simply quoigenic and willogenic, as a way to repress our truama, with many people at the time insisting we were more than that, many saying we were "pokegenic" and "autigenic", and even some saying we were "Hospigenic" due to our childhood in the hospital. This made us sot ourselves down and look at ourselves and genuinely question "What are we". We witnessed our friends attempt con convince our singlet friends they were systems, our traumagenic friends that they weren't truamagenic. We personally saw people in our servers try and dox the truamagenic systems who didn't adopt labels, purely because of that. It was something that concerned us. After year we switched our veiw. We decided we didn't want to be associated with such a community, one that attempted for force labels onto people, so we switched our veiw.

Endo neutral

In mid 2021 I moved to a center, We didn't want to associate with the endogenic community, but didn't hate them, overall this was a nice place, it wasn't horrid. But again, similar issues arose, people within it constantly escalated arguments on the front of being an unbiased party. I noticed many many of them tended to circulate harmful rhetoric, especially against POC who spoke against them as a person if they happened to be a system , they went after them as people, their race, and things they held dear. This community was the shortest in terms of associating with it. Something That was unique to it was exactly how they dealt wit syscourse, they had contradictory opinions, many times, one example being endo neutral but anti nondisordered. I left after 6 months, it was full of people hopping between " I don't touch syscourse" and doing it untagged in 3 minutes, honestly it was the most stressful.

Anti Endo

We personally did a bit more research, realizing alot of things, but also again, wanted to no associate with either while staying in the syscourse circles, of course they had their issues, but we noticed that they would, rather than encourage it as the previous had, many shut it down when they could. I found friends here, who actually protected me, though many we're relentless. It made it harder to find spaces in the community where we could talk peacefully about our day-day life without being met with comments about our stance or hatred in our inbox, but out of that on discords, again, they were nice, unlike pro and neu who'd force syscourse onto you, antis encourage taking breaks. Now we acknowledge it does have its issues; being very adamant and unable to back down, I'll admit we're guilty of this as well. Being in this community has made us feel safer. Again, though, an issue is here, anti self diagnosis runs rampant, along with the idea you know exactly who you are. When we realized we were mixed, we had a few anons yell at us for "race faking".

Conclusion

As an entity, the syscourse community is foul. Racism, ablism, doxxing, toxicity, and misrepresentation of arguments all run rampant on many sides of it. The pros and neu encourage ignoring your own health in order to argue your own existence. The anti has an issue of not backing down. The pros has a long history of doxxing and targeting of PoC. The neutrals use personal attacks as arguments. Overall, it's a raging battlefield of counter and cross attacks, horrible in-fighting and general ignoring and discarding of peoples boundaries to go after them. All sides have issues you must work on in order to collectively build cooperation on your points before as a whole we can actually get somewhere with this on-going discussion.

Thank you for reading and taking the time, please check me out, im trying my best, i have a few awareness posts, and i think im.worth mentioning, we mostly wrote this at 4am as we couldn't sleep due to our room being 36°f (alot lower outside) so punctuation, spelling, and grammar wont be 100%

#pro xeno origins #pro tulpa #pro endo #neutral syscourse #syscourse #endo safe #endo neutral #anti xenorigin #anti sysmed #anti endogenic #anti tulpa #pro sysmed #tulpamancy #tulpa neutral

[thattheater-kid]

Here’s my metaphor for systemhood that I tell my singlet friends.

Imagine you’re playing a first person video game. You have the controller, you control your character. It’s a normal first person game. You are an alter, the character is the body. This is fronting.

Other people live with you. Sometimes, they come into the room and sit and watch while you play. They sometimes try to guide you, give you advice on what to do next. They don’t always agree, and they can argue with each other. Other times they scream at you that you’re doing everything wrong and you suck at this game. This is co-consciousness.

Imagine how distracting it would be for people around you to tell you what to do, or to scream at each other or at you, even if they have good intentions. It wouldn’t be easy to focus on your game, would it?

Then sometimes, something happens in the game that prompts you to hand off the controller to someone else so they can play and you get a break. This is (some types of) switching. This can be good.

Other times, someone rips the controller out of your hand or fights you for it. This is (other types of) switching. And sometimes, six other players hook up their controllers, but there’s only one character to play as. So all of you have your controllers, but you’re all trying to play the same character. This is cofronting.

Imagine how difficult that would be. Imagine how hard it would be to try and play a game while someone is trying to take the controller from you, or while six other people are trying to play too.

There are also times that nobody is playing, or you can’t decide who should play. What’s happening to the character in the game? What are they doing if no one is playing? This is dissociation. The character is doing nothing. They’re stuck.

This is the best metaphor I have come up with for being a system. It’s something a lot of people get because they’ve played games before.

#did system #plural #actually plural #plurality #system things #actually did #plural system #system metaphor #traumagenic system #dissociative #actually dissociative #dissociative identity disorder #dissociative system #no syscourse #syscourse neutral

[ozwynstars]

Some reminders for systems out there:

- you do not have to fit stereotypes, even if they are formed by the community

- small systems are still systems

- large systems are valid and real

- switching a lot is valid

- switching only a little is valid

- not noticing when switches occur is normal

- being a headmate who is almost always in front or co-con is normal

- being a headmate that almost never fronts is normal

- having many fictives/factives is normal

- having few to no fictives/factives is normal

- having communication issues is normal

- having amazing communication from the start is normal

- hearing voices is normal

- hearing them only with focus or not at all is normal

- understanding headmates through different means, such as feeling what they feel, or having them write things to you is valid

- not fitting coined system roles is normal

- enjoying and fitting coined roles is normal

- almost fitting a term and using it to describe your role is valid

- having no name for your system is valid

- having multiple names for your system is valid

- having stretches of silence from your headmates is normal

- having moments of extreme activity from your headmates is normal

- being frontstuck happens! just do your best, you’re awesome.

- what you see online is not every experience a system has, and they are likely just as varied from other systems as you are, just in different ways <3

being a system is varied and complex for every single system, nobody and no system has to fit into a box to be real, don’t fakeclaim yourself based off of other systems experiences.

#ozwyn speaks #system #plurality #traumagenic system #plural system #dissociative system #actually plural #plural community #plural stuff #plural positivity #system positivity #syscourse neutral #felt in need of some positivity #so i wrote it out to share!

[actuallyverynormalbtw]

to me, saying you can form a system without trauma is like saying you can form a scab without a wound.

#mostly endo neutral tbh #but it just doesnt make sense #syscourse #anti endo #endo neutral #traumagenic

[cccat-in-a-meat-sack]

By the way, I've seen a lot of discourse on "endogenic" alters, so repeat after me

Your brain splits alters as you need them. That means you can have a completely trauma based alter, and you can also have an alter created to deal with homework, aka an "endogenic" alter. If your system formed from trauma, you are not "traumaendo". You are traumagenic. Full stop.

#endos dni #anti endo #endo neutral #anti endogenic #endo apathetic #endos not for you #this post is not for endos #traumagenic did #did alter #did system #traumagenic system #actually did #did osdd #syscourse? #syscourse #tw syscourse #calico has spots #calico side eyes

[the-alarm-system]

mfs will be like “oh I don’t do syscourse/im syscourse neutral” then reblog from the most violent horrible anti endos on the site

#Syscourse #endo safe #actually plural #plural community #plural system #pluralgang #plurality #You can’t be neutral on people’s existence

[pos-syscourse]

Sometimes you do gotta do that thing that is detrimental to your health. Self care is sometimes harmful, and yes it’s confusing, but needed.

It’s helped me to think of juggling balls, only some are rubber and some are glass. I can let the rubber ones fall — I’d prefer not to, because they bounce everywhere and make a mess, but they’re harmless, but they can fall. The glass ones can’t — they’ll shatter and break, and that’ll hurt me a lot more than rubber.

Remember: you can let the rubber ball fall. You can go one day without brushing your teeth. You can go one night with a bad sleep schedule. You can do something that means you “dropped the ball.”

Especially if it means preventing a glass ball from falling.

#syscourse positivity #syscourse #pro endo #anti endo #syscourse unaligned #endo safe #endo friendly #self care #endo neutral #syscourse neutral

[manyminded]

y’know, we aren’t endo. but we definitely still lean pro-endo. even if we are traumagenic, we’ll still be getting fakeclaimed, because we aren’t disordered. isn’t that funny? I’m almost there. I’m so close. Yet, I’ll never be accepted. At least pro-endos will believe I exist.

yes, we try to remain syscourse neutral. we want to get out of the pro-endo side of syscourse - we want to hear you out! we want to understand where you’re coming from! getting out of the echo chamber is essential. our main goal is to connect our community. syscourse runs so rampant, it’s hard to find others like you. it’s so awful to be here and that isn’t right. we need to change it!

still. sometimes I’m tired. maybe I just wanna be around people who won’t fuck me over, I guess. at least part of the time.

#syscourse neutral #syscourse unaligned #syscourse #syscource #pro endo #all sides of syscourse can interact (?) #<that’s usually my policy #but I’m unsure #plural #plurality #actually plural #plural pride #plural unity #pluralgang #pluralpunk #systemhood #plural system #systems #system #traumagenic system #traumagenicinclusive #non-disordered #non disordered system

[sysmedsaresexist]

We really need to come up with better terms for syscourse stances because the main ones aren't cutting it

Anti endo can mean everything from staunch disbelief and bad, aggressive posts to completely believing that endogenic systems are real and valid but not wanting them to interact with CDD-specific content

Being pro endo can mean someone believes DID is caused by trauma and that the CDD community must be protected above all else, to people actively villainizing CDD systems and everything in-between

Endo neutral can mean everything from not caring at all about syscourse and refusing to engage, to allowing interaction from all sides without judgement despite personal beliefs

Anti-misinformation had promise at one point in reference to the massive amounts of misinformation in both communities, but it wasn't working

Any and all of these labels can mean you think the DSM or ICD directly affirms endogenic systems and they can also mean that person has never picked up a DSM in their life

NONE OF THESE ARE WORKING

None of them are accurate

None of them convey the full picture

These are useless labels

(I don't want to hear a peep about the syscourse code, that's not cutting it either, no one has time for that)

People getting upset over pro endo mods on anti endo blogs don't realize that you can share the exact same beliefs about science and the communities and use opposing labels.

Some pro endo blogs should try putting an anti endo on their team to control misinformation and point out ableism, seriously, interaction is how you start learning, anti endos seem more willing to take that step than pro endos and that's pathetic

I also think it might be good to remove the focus from the validity and acceptance of endogenic systems (anti/pro endo) and place it back on what's important-- protecting traumatized individuals

Maybe something like "#CDDs first" can convey that your intention, attention, and audience will always prioritize the CDD community and their safety, but even that... someone can be well-intentioned when they misquote things

I don't know, I'd love to hear the communities' thoughts-- both pro and anti, I'd like this to spread around a bit, I think it's important that people realize that labels don't mean there's disagreement on ideas and concepts-- a pro endo can share the same goals and ideas as an anti endo and vice versa

For example, at this point, I'll happily interact with anyone who agrees that DID is a childhood trauma disorder. That's it. That's my bar. No more, no less. There are pro endos who believe the exact same things I do on all fronts, despite calling me anti endo.

It really just doesn't make sense.

Maybe together we can come up with something better

#CDD first #pro syscourse conversation #syscourse #anti endo #pro endo #endo neutral #system safe

[thexspiral]

If you're one of those bitches who makes random posts like "I HATE ENDOS THEY SHOULD ALL KTS ENDOS DIE CHALLENGE" please just block me. Like dude. You don't have to like them but be fucking mature about it LMAO. It's not like they're committing mass atrocities or anything. Grow tf up.

#scott rambles #syscourse #endo neutral #did #osdd #system #plural

[sparkleplur]

something i feel is important to share.

i used to be vehemently anti-endo until very recently. *earlier today*, actually.

i realized that holding all this hate in my heart over people who are just trying to exist is illogical.

they still exist despite the hate. they're still plural.

now, i understand both anti- and pro- endogenic perspectives. i was an anti-endogenic syscourser for three years. i found that my distaste wasn't the endogenic plurals themselves, it was their community. often i'd see words like "sysmed" "ableist" being flung about by endogenic people towards anti-endos. and that furthered my hatred. i'd see people selling alters or claiming syshopping was real (less often, but it still occured occasionally) and that furthered my hatred. i'd see people say that DID systems deserve the trauma if they were anti-endo. all disgusting behavior that pushed me further & further into being anti-endo.

please, let's not spread hate around. i know it's tough seeing people not understand your identity. but you can't fight fire with gasoline. you need to be understanding, and warm. i know it's difficult, but calling people sysmeds and traumascum isn't helpful.

EDIT : I AM ENDOGENIC MYSELF!!!! I am not trying to police our community, just better it . You can't get anti endos to be on our side if you throw insults at them left right and center, and same goes for the anti endo community towards us

#syscourse #i hope i worded this right #pro endo #syscourse unaligned #endo neutral

[the80srewinders]

We used to be pro endo, but we're not anymore. We've learned, we've grown. We've seen bad things from both sides- anti endo and pro endo. We took time away from the online plural community to do immense research into endogenic systems and have concluded there's no proof they exist, and the only proof they give into their existence is opinion or studies that don't involve brain imaging. They never cite real medical sources or scientific sources, and since plurality is neurodivergence, endogenic plurality would still be considered disordered. There is no such thing as non disordered plurality, even if endogenic systems are real. The endo community largely spreads misinformation by saying non disordered plurality is real. The brain does not just make alters, headmates, whatever just to make them. There has to be a reason, and if endogenic systems are real, then that reason is they're neurodivergent. Which is disordered. There's no such thing as "non disordered autism" and the same applies to systems. So the pro endo community lack of scientific proof and linking non medical articles is enough proof they're probably not real. Endos also are taking over the plural community, when its focus should be on DID/OSDD because its a real disorder with a century of misinformation to debunk and lots of stigma, the people who have it suffered immense trauma as children and have struggles in their daily lives singlets won't understand. Instead of making a strong tight knit community for DID/OSDD systems, literal childhood trauma survivors, endos and their supporters have made the whole plural community a place of instability, fights and side taking. They've made it into everything a safe place for neurodivergence shouldn't be, especially for a posttraumatic and highly stigmatized disorder. The community that should be helping DID/OSDD systems and ending stigma, ending stereotypes, spreading facts is damaging the DID/OSDD community, and if singlets think it exists. We have no proof endos are real, but they've came and invaded our community and ruined it. Now endos want to invade other spaces not even related to plurality- autism spaces, fandom spaces and lgbt spaces. They also steal DID/OSDD terms and other cultural religious terms and even invade religious spaces or beliefs with their "everything is plural! god is a system!" tricks. Sure, the anti endos who choose endos to bully and bait are toxic, but most endos we've seen are just as toxic, just not by blatant harassment. Endos are for appropriation, invasion and "pluralizing" everything. They also damage the DID/OSDD community in ways I'll have to write a guide or ted talk on. I may be neutral as far as if i think endos are real, but I'm definitely anti endo in the sense that i am against the endo community for their spread of misinformation and damage to the DID/OSDD community.

#syscourse #dissociative identity disorder #actually dissociative #other specified dissociative disorder #osddid #actually did #maybe anti endo #endo neutral #anti endo #endos dni #endos fuck off #anti tulpa

[sysboxes]

[Text: This system is syscourse-neutral.]

Like/Reblog if you save or use!

#userbox #did #system #did system #osdd1 #osdd1 system #syscourse neutral #anti endo #endos dni #mod morpho 🦋

[kelpie-mare]

If you haven't figured it out from my myriad of reblogs and posts, I have the following thoughts:

- PD peeps are awesome and deserve love. YES, that means cluster B, as well! YES, even us ASPD and our NPD buddies.

- Narc abuse does not exist. That's like me calling that one time my mom threatened me with a frying pan "Cookware abuse."

- Psychopath and Sociopath are NOT accurate diagnostic lingo anymore. All my ASPD buddies (and my ASPD self) have the right to reclaim them, but they are not medical terms!

- DID systems are not going to appear like textbook/media in many, many cases. This does not mean you should fake claim us!

- Endo systems are no skin off my nose; I think it's different than medical DID, but I'm not an authority who can prove without reasonable doubt that ONLY traumagenics can be plural.

- Physical and mental health are often related, but it is never cool to derail a post for one or the other with whataboutism.

- Whataboutism in general tends to irritate the crap out of me, ngl.

- Listen to your marginalized friends! And enemies! Neutral folks! Take in perspectives, let marginalized folks speak for their own experiences, and don't tout one voice as being the spokesperson for all XYZ group. Make your own opinions using critical thinking!

- All posts, even this one, should be taken with a grain of salt. Nuance is complex and difficult, but black and white thinking can be very dangerous.

- I hate "reblog or you're a terrible person!!!" Posts. They fuck with my Moral OCD badly, and make me less likely to reblog, even if I agree with the rest of the message.

- Cats are very cute and very soft and very lovely.

- Horses were a drunken creation, abandoned by any godly pantheon eons ago.

- Pineapple on pizza is neither amazing, nor awful.

#kelpie rambles #by peach #personal thoughts #cluster b safe #aspd safe #actually aspd #npd safe #hpd safe #actually bpd #bpd safe #syscourse #endo neutral #pd safe #disability #physically disabled #actually mentally ill #moral ocd

[the-masquerade-council]

I'm curious, what best applies to you and your system/collative.

This is for committed relationships of any kind(so yes QPRs do count). If you've never been in a committed relationship but want to be, answer based off of the kind of relationship structure you would like to have. For polyam alters, and collectively polyam systems answer based off what feels most accurate. Also if your system has both out off system relationship(s) and in-system relationship(s), answer based off of the out of system relationship(s).

Here "collectively" is being use to refer to all or almost all of the system. "Some of us" would refer to around 25-75% of the system give or take. Base it off of how many of you there are, it's gonna be different for every system.

Some examples of what various relationship structures would correspond to below*.

In general vote for what's the closest even if it's not a perfect description.

Reblogs would be appreciated if you feel so inclined.

But singlets do not vote on this poll.

*Example one: The host of system A is voting on this poll, they in are a system of 6. Alter 1, 2 ,3, 4, 5, and 6. Alter 1 is dating a singlet. Alter 2 is dating an alter from system B. Alter 4 is dating 2 alters from system B. System A would vote for "Separate beings, some of us are in a relationship with those in another system". Because there are more separate relationship having to do with system members.

*Example two: Collative A is voting on this poll, they have 34 headmates. The many of the headmates are in relationships with various headmates for other systems. There are no more 4 separate relationships between Collative A's headmates and any given system. So they should choose "Separate beings, only one/a few of us is/are with those in another system". Because even though many of them are in relationships, not many of them are with the same system.

*Example three: Person A has parts, they aren't sure how many exactly, but they know they have at lest 8. 7 of the known 8 are in a queerplatonic relationship with a singlet. They would choose "We are parts of a whole, collectively in a relationship with a singlet". Even they have unknown parts, most of the known parts are in a a relationship with a singlet.

*Example four: A person in System C is voting on this poll, System C has 307 know people in it. Around half the people in System C are dating a singlet, some of the remaining people are dating alters from two different systems. They should choose "Separate beings, some of us are in a relationship with a singlet". Because there are more relationships involving the singlet.

But again you should just choose what feels most accurate. We are not you, and we can't say exactly what best describes your specific situation.

P.S sorry I couldn't put "multiple are applicable" and "it's complicated/other" there was no room.

Also if you're an ass on this post. I will delete your reply and block you.

#-v #system stuff #system poll #plural poll #plural system #system relationships #actually plural #dissociative system #sysblr #system things #endo neutral #no syscourse #<-please

[korya-elana]

The absolute exhaustion of debating a topic and you provide sources to back you up and all of the sudden they're "not looking to argue" and "agree to disagree" and "not looking to continue the conversation"

#We don't even use these tags but we're so fucking annoyed #syscourse #system #unfortunately syscourse #did system #did osdd #endo neutral in case that wasn't clear