#ml frozer

[bittersweetresilience]

Adrien Agreste and Borderline Personality Disorder

DISCLAIMER: I've been a bit low on spoons this week, so I haven't gathered as much evidence as I probably could have. Also, I am but a humble student in clinical psychology. This is mainly a thought compilation for @moonieratty!

To introduce the topic, without going into it too much, personality is described by features and behavioral patterns, or traits, consistent across situations and across time. Personality disorders are therefore enduring patterns of highly maladaptive traits evaluated in personal and sociocultural context (Dozois, 2019, p. 290).

Like other disorders, personality disorders have diagnostic criteria. The DSM is used primarily for diagnosis in the US and Canada while the ICD is used more widely in Europe and other places. I'm more familiar with the DSM, but I've included a brief section on the ICD to be comprehensive. It ended up a bit longer than anticipated, so let's go below the cut. Warning for discussions of abuse, self harm, and suicide, and a brief mention of substance use.

Overview of Borderline Personality Disorder

BPD is prevalent in a small percentage of the population, about 1-2% by varying estimates, and is characterized by instability across domains of emotions, identity, interpersonal relationships, and behavior. Its onset is usually in late adolescence or early adulthood and symptoms may diminish with age, after one's thirties or forties, especially with therapeutic intervention. Along with ASPD, it has been the focus of a lot of clinical research; it is unfortunately associated with high rates of non-suicidal self-injury and suicide (APA, 2022, pp. 754–755; Dozois, 2019, pp. 308–309).

Etiological factors for BPD include both biological and environmental disturbances. Of note to our discussion is the heightened risk for BPD in cases of child abuse or neglect, as well as growing up with another family member with a serious mental health condition (NHS, 2022). It's been well established that Gabriel is emotionally neglectful if not outright abusive toward Adrien in multiple ways, so this is a clear risk factor. In addition, although I won't argue definitively for Gabriel having a psychological condition, he did keep Emilie's body in the basement, so there is clearly some kind of disturbance going on.

From a cognitive-behavioral perspective, Linehan argues that BPD stems from families who consistently invalidate childhood emotional experiences and "oversimplify the ease with which life's problems can be solved," which may cause children to learn to seek attention and communicate with others through emotional outbursts (Dozois, 2019, p. 297). This rings true for Adrien and Gabriel as well.

I have to apologize for my son, Ladybug, he's like his mother. Way too overly dramatic. (Jackady)

It doesn't seem like this is the first time Gabriel has thought this, and labeling an emotional reaction as being overly dramatic is very much invalidation of it. As for emotional outbursts, Adrien has had quite a few, mostly as Chat Noir. More on this later.

To round out this first section, attachment theory proposes a connection between poor parent-child attachments and BPD relationship difficulties. Specifically, maladaptive behavior in relationships may stem from childhood development of an anxious-ambivalent attachment style, where intense fears of abandonment interfere with a strong desire for intimacy (Dozois, 2019, p. 310). You can clearly see this in Chat Noir's relationship with Ladybug, and I'm sure other people have discussed Adrien's attachment style more in depth, but suffice to say I think this is an apt description.

Argument from DSM-5-TR

In the DSM, personality disorders are primarily diagnosed on a categorical model. There are a few general criteria which I won't be going into, but I will highlight that personality disorders are stable and pervasive, and would be diagnosed only if they were leading to significant distress or dysfunction. Adrien's mental state is not great, so the latter shouldn't be a problem, but this show does not always pay attention to consistency, so I'm going to be speculating some. Everything in this section is cited to the relevant DSM entry unless otherwise stated.

The DSM characterizes BPD with instability in relationships, self image, and affects, as well as marked impulsivity. It has no exclusion criteria, so BPD can be and frequently is comorbid with other disorders like mood disorders, PTSD, and ADHD. Of the below criteria, five need to be met in order for a diagnosis to be made.

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Hey, where're you going? . . . So you're allowed to know her true identity, but I'm not? (Syren)

You're not really replacing me with a turtle, are you? (Anansi)

A lot of people have delved into Adrien's abandonment issues, which feature most prominently in his relationship with Ladybug. His fears of being replaced result in him seeking reassurance from Ladybug, and he can lash out if he does not receive the response he hopes for. Ladybug is his world, and he wants to be hers, so anything infringing on that feels to him like a threat of being abandoned, and he does not like it very much.

Impulsive behaviors like giving up his ring can be interpreted under this lens: he can avoid abandonment by doing the abandoning first. Then it will be him leaving, and not the other way around.

I also interpret Adrien's nightmare (Le Marchand de Sable) as being a fear of being alone as much as it is a fear of being trapped.

Unstable and intense interpersonal relationships alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

We'll be united, more powerful and free. We'll defeat Hawk Moth, then we can both run away to an island! Far away from everything. We will live off nothing but fruits, and we will have a little pet hamster and we will name it— (Le Patineur)

I just can't do this anymore. I give up… on everything. Even you . . . If I become Chat Noir again, Ladybug will just end up rejecting me, over and over. (Kuro Neko)

Even though Adrien mostly keeps his head on straight regarding what he's owed and not owed by other people, his relationship with Ladybug is full of highs and lows. He thinks Ladybug is the most amazing girl, but this can recoil quickly into feeling as though Ladybug doesn't care about him enough or isn't meeting his needs.

Furthermore, he developed this idealization of Ladybug as a potential lover or caregiver at one of their first meetings (Cœur de Pierre), and continually sought to spend time together and share the intimate details of their secret identities early on. These are all common to individuals with BPD, as is the switch from idealization to feeling as if the other person "does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not 'there' enough." Ladybug is the only person Adrien consistently projects this instability and intensity on, which might be something interesting to explore.

Identity disturbance: unstable self image or sense of self

When I was a kid, I always wanted to be what my parents wanted me to be! (Exauceur)

But, does that mean Chat Noir is who I really am? Deep down inside? (Kuro Neko)

With all the secret identities, it isn't surprising that Adrien fits this criterion, but canon even explicitly draws a link between Adrien's unstable sense of self and his childhood experiences. He doesn't know who he is, and he distracts from this by being Chat Noir, only to struggle even more when he feels useless and underlooked as his hero self. His behavior shifts dramatically between trying to prove himself with grand gestures and refusing to participate or lashing out. There is definitely something to discuss on this front.

Impulsivity in at least two potentially self-damaging areas

Giving you some extra time . . . I trust you to bring me back, m'lady. (Gamer 2.0)

There are only two liars left in Paris and one of them knows the ultimate way to catch her attention . . . Crazy about you, m'lady. (Mensonge)

This is walking a thin line between impulsivity and suicidal behavior, which would be excluded from this criterion, but I'll list self sacrifice here because I can see an argument for Chat Noir's impulsive behaviors being out of love or the desire to be useful. There may still be some self injurious intent or euphoria, but Chat Noir does have faith in Ladybug to bring him back eventually. Nevertheless, this is impulsive and unhealthy. Chat Noir jumps too quickly to this option to have thought it through.

I can't think of another area, because Adrien isn't old enough for reckless driving, spending, substance use, or sex. This is also a kids' show. Just presenting these options for fanfiction writers out there.

Recurrent suicidal or self mutilating behavior, gestures, or threats

I... I don't know what to do! (Chat Blanc)

This is all our fault . . . Cataclysm. (Culpabysse)

By itself, what happened in Chat Blanc would not be solid evidence, as that was an unprecedentedly traumatic situation. Combined with Culpabysse, though, there is a strong case to be made for at least passive suicidality for this to be able to come up as an option.

You could also interpret the self sacrifice in this category. Suicidal behavior in individuals with BPD is often preempted by fears of rejection or abandonment, so an interesting analysis could be made on this front.

Affective instability due to marked reactivity of mood

He's still only thinking of himself! I just want this terrible day to be over and done with! I hate Christmas! (Pire Noël)

Sorry! Sorry! I didn't mean to make you so mad. I get it. You're sick of me . . . No one can help me, Kagami. (Glaciator 2)

Adrien's prolonged episodes of anger and despair reflect a high reactivity to emotional stressors, especially interpersonal ones. In general, he just doesn't feel very well unless something is actively bringing him joy. Most of his outbursts are brief, though, and I will discuss them as part of a later criterion.

Chronic feelings of emptiness

I'm not Adrien, so I wouldn't know if this is the case, but I can say he has experienced at least one depressive episode (Kuro Neko) and emptiness would not be unfamiliar. You can look at him and decide.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger

How was your amazing evening with your "friends"? . . . What do you think? (Glaciator)

Why not? No one'll know if I quit. No one'll care! (Syren)

A two-person plan?! There's only one two-person plan, and that's Ladybug and me! (Sentibulleur)

Give me a break, Miss "I can't even come up with a superhero name"! (Hack-San)

Anger in individuals with BPD can manifest as bitterness, sarcasm, or recurrent verbal outbursts, which Chat Noir absolutely exemplifies. These outbursts are often followed by feelings of shame or guilt and contribute to a feeling of being bad. Chat Noir apologizes after being harsh in Glaciator, and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt badly about the other times. Again, these outbursts are often precipitated by interpersonal fears and perceived threats of abandonment. Unlike other symptoms, this specific one tends to be unique to BPD.

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociation

I cannot recall any evidence for this but headcanon away, my friends.

All in all, I think Adrien has a strong case for BPD presentation according to the DSM. Canon is not always consistent, but I think it presents an interesting and mostly coherent narrative for this lens. From this perspective, Adrien's behavior reflects a deep intolerance of being alone and a dependence on other people to define the self.

As a corollary, BPD behavioral patterns are frequently linked to self sabotage and self undermining right when a goal is about to be realized, which could manifest as dropping out of school right before graduating or ending a relationship when it seems to be going well. Food for thought. Individuals with BPD may also feel more secure with transitional objects like pets than with interpersonal relationships, which could reflect in Adrien's relationship with Plagg.

To add some subjective understanding to this clinical mumbo jumbo, I've added a source of genuine BPD experiences below (Mind, 2022).

Argument from ICD-11

With the release of the ICD-11, a dimensional model for diagnosis of personality disorders became the new standard. What this means is that individuals are no longer labeled as having 'histrionic' or 'dependent' or, indeed, 'borderline' personality disorders, but are rather assessed as having any form of personality disorder on a sliding scale of severity and with trait domain specifiers (Swales, 2022). To put it more simply, people are diagnosed only with a general personality disorder or personality difficulty which can be optionally specified as deviating on one of the personality traits in the Big Five model, which is well established in personality psychology.

This move has several benefits. Stigmatization related to particular personality disorders can be reduced, and differential diagnosis and comorbidity between personality disorders becomes irrelevant. However, people retain access to treatment and support. Evidence-based treatments like dialectical behavior therapy are particularly well established and crucial for BPD; for this pragmatic purpose, the ICD contains one additional specifier for borderline pattern personality disorder (Bach et al., 2022; Swales, 2022).

The DSM and ICD are designed to be compatible with each other in many ways, and in this case, the borderline specifier in the ICD is directly lifted from the criterion of the DSM (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5). Based on our previous discussion, Adrien would be equally qualified for a diagnosis in France. I would likely describe his personality disorder with moderate severity, where multiple areas of functioning are affected and self harming behaviors may be present, but not all areas or relationships may be equally impacted and traits are not as rigid and inflexible (WHO, 2023, 6D10.0–6D10.2).

Interestingly, the ICD includes three additional manifestations of borderline pattern which are optional and may vary across time (WHO, 2023, 6D11.5).

A view of the self as inadequate, bad, guilty, disgusting, and contemptible

An experience of the self as profoundly different and isolated from other people; a painful sense of alienation and pervasive loneliness

Proneness to rejection hypersensitivity; problems in establishing and maintaining appropriate levels of trust in relationships; frequent misinterpretation of social signals

I'm fascinated by the number of adjectives in here. I simplified very slightly, as I did with the DSM criteria, but I had to keep all these adjectives. Anyway, I won't elaborate for too many more paragraphs, so let's say sentimonster moment and leave it at that. I will spare you my mirrored Félix essay. For now.

Qualifications and Limitations

First of all, Adrien is a teenager. The distinguishing factor between a personality disorder and regular adolescent difficulties would be longevity and identity concerns beyond his developmental phase (APA, 2022, p. 758). Second of all, Adrien has a uniquely terrible home life and magical problems. Some of his behaviors could be normal considering his experiences and sociocultural context, and this matters when it comes to psychological evaluation. Take everything with a grain of salt!

More generally, the categorical model of the DSM has several issues, not to mention diagnostic issues related to culture, gender, and stigma. Some but not all of these issues are addressed by the dimensional model it includes in a later section, which shares theoretical foundations with the model of personality disorders in the ICD. Even so, issues remain. Diagnosis, access to treatment, and political statements are intrinsically linked in complex ways. I won't get into all of the nuances, but be safe, remember this is a fictional character, and keep an open mind.

REFERENCES:

American Psychiatric Association. (2022). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed., text rev.). https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425787

Bach, B., Kramer, U., Doering, S., di Giacomo, E., Hutsebaut, J., Kaera, A., De Panfilis, C., Schmahl, C., Swales, M., Taubner, S., & Renneberg, B. (2022). The ICD-11 classification of personality disorders: A European perspective on challenges and opportunities. Borderline Personality Disorder and Emotion Dysregulation, 9(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s40479-022-00182-0

Dozois, D. J. A. (2019). Abnormal psychology: Perspectives (6th ed.). Pearson.

Mind. (2022, September). What does BPD feel like? https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/experiences-of-bpd/

National Health Service. (2022, November 4). Causes - Borderline personality disorder. https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/borderline-personality-disorder/causes/

Swales, M. A. (2022). Personality disorder diagnoses in ICD-11: Transforming conceptualisations and practice. Clinical Psychology in Europe, 4(Special Issue). https://doi.org/10.32872/cpe.9635

World Health Organization. (2023). International statistical classification of diseases and related health problems (11th ed.). https://icd.who.int/

#miraculous ladybug #adrien agreste #ml meta #don't worry i read through far more sources than listed here #it's just standard citation procedure to include only in-text references and not readings for general subject comprehension #🌃 #🌖 #i'm using a hybrid parenthetical citation model which i think is most efficient and informative so just note this down #i can't believe i referenced kuro neko three times... what an episode #ml simon says #ml syren #ml anansi #ml sandboy #ml frozer #ml kuro neko #ml stoneheart #ml wishmaker #ml gamer 2.0 #ml lies #ml chat blanc #ml guiltrip #ml santa claws #ml glaciator 2 #ml glaciator #ml sentibubbler #ml hack san

[character-fan19]

Optimizing Viewing Experience for Love Square Shippers

You guys have previously seen me make a post on the love square screen time records based on the data I collected on how much screen time each love square ship has in each episode and special and in each season exactly and now we're going to be putting that data to more practical use and using it to figure out what are the best seasons, episodes and specials for shippers of certain sides of the love square to watch when binging through Miraculous.

Adrienette

You don't need to know the exact screen time for Adrienette in every season to know that season 5 is the best season for Adrienette shippers to watch. Not only is it the season with the most Adrienette screen time, but it's also the season where Adrienette finally becomes canon which is yet another plus.

For episodes that feature particularly large amounts of Adrienette screen time you can look to "Gamer" (6 min 28 sec) in season 1; "Riposte" (4 min 14 sec), "Gorizilla" (4 min 11 sec) and "Frozer" (4 min 10 sec) in season 2; "Oblivio" (9 min 3 sec) and "The Puppeteer 2" (4 min 27 sec) in season 3; "Mr. Pigeon 72" (2 min 23 sec), "Psycomedian" (2 min 19 sec) and "Simpleman" (2 min 8 sec) in season 4; and "Determination" (4 min 46 sec), "Transmission" (4 min 49 sec) and "Protection" (4 min 19 sec) in season 5.

In terms of Miraculous World specials, you're best bet is the New York Special which has 7 min 40 sec of screen time which has the whole storyline of Marinette trying remain friends with Adrien.

Ladynoir

Really you can pick any season since Ladynoir dominates all of them but the best season for Ladynoir shippers would be season 1 which not only has the most Ladynoir out of all the seasons but also has that classic Ladynoir dynamic I've seen certain Ladynoir fans crave in the later seasons: fighting villains and just being a dynamic duo in general, Cat Noir making the puns and Ladybug getting annoyed with him, those kind of stuff.

For episodes with particularly high amounts of Ladynoir check out "Stormy Weather" (6 min 7 sec), "Mr. Pigeon" (6 min 10 sec), "Horrificator" (6 min 8 sec), "Kung Food" (7 min 3 sec), "Animan" (8 min 28 sec), and "Volpina" (6 min 7 sec) in season 1; "Prime Queen" (8 min 19 sec), "The Dark Owl" (8 min 14 sec), and "Mayura" (8 min 32 sec) in season 2; "Reflekdoll" (7 min 19 sec), "Timetagger" (6 min 22 sec), and "Cat Blanc" (6 min 35 sec) in season 3; "Truth" (4 min 4 sec), "Psycomedian" (5 min 40 sec), "Furious Fu" (4 min 57 sec), "Kuro Neko" (7 min 23 sec), and "Strikeback" (4 min 14 sec) in season 4; and "Evolution" (7 min 50 sec), "Multiplication" (7 min 36 sec), and "Passion" (7 min 4 sec) in season 5.

In terms of Miraculous World specials, you can go for the New York special which has 6 min 29 sec of screen time and gives us some good Ladynoir angst with Cat Noir betraying Ladybug's trust and feeling so guilty about that he gave up his Miraculous.

Maricat

For Maricat, the season of you're choice would be season 4, even though most of the screen time there is concentrated in "Glaciator 2". This season even has the episode with the most Maricat screen time in all of the show so far, that is, "Glaciator 2".

Episodes with particularly high amounts of Maricat screen time include "Evillustrator" (2 min 17 sec) and "Gamer" (54 sec) in season 1, "Glaciator" (3 min 29 sec) and "Befana" (36 sec) in season 2, "Weredad" (3 min 57 sec) and "Kwamibuster" (44 sec) in season 3, "Sentibubbler" (1 min 24 sec) and "Glaciator 2" (8 min 14 sec) in season 4, and "Elation" (5 min 37 sec) and "Protection" (48 sec) in season 5.

Ladrien

For Ladrien shippers, the best seasons for you guys to watch are seasons 2 and 3, moreso season 2, where Ladrien was at the peak of its screen time until it dwindled into nothingness in seasons 4 and 5.

For episodes with a particularly large amount of screen time we have "Simon Says" (1 min 22 sec) and "Volpina" (1 min 23 sec) in season 1, "Riposte" (3 min 42 sec) and "Gorizilla" (3 min 58 sec) in season 2, "Oblivio" (1 min 40 sec) and "Desparada" (5 min 35 sec) in season 3, "Strikeback" (37 sec) in season 4, and "Passion" (17 sec) in season 5.

Conclusion

Well, that's it. Hope this was helpful to some love square shippers who want to binge through Miraculous.

#miraculous ladybug #ml love square #adrienette #ladynoir #maricat #ladrien #ml analysis #ml season 5 #ml season 1 #ml season 4 #ml season 2 #ml gamer #ml riposte #ml gorizilla #ml frozer #ml oblivio #ml the puppeteer 2 #ml psycomedian #ml simpleman #ml determination #ml transmission #ml protection #miraculous new york #ml new york special #ml stormy weather #ml mr pigeon #ml horrificator #ml kung food #ml volpina #ml prime queen

[burningstarfishqueen]

They’ve held this pose before.

It’s a parallel to an older confession.

It’s neither as beautiful nor in any way as successful, but back in Le Patineur poor Marinette gathers all her courage and tells Adrien how she loves… the idea of going ice skating with him again!

“You mean, just you and me?”

“You and me. Oh. No, of course not!”

Once the lightest touch of his hand was so overwhelming she couldn’t even smile naturally. She had so far to go, and she did it.

“It’s the right time. Adrien, I love you.”

#miraculous ladybug #adrinette #adrienette #marinette dupain-cheng #marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste #ml adoration #ml adoration spoilers #ml season 5 #ml s5 spoilers #ml le patineur #ml frozer

[lady-de-mon-coeur]

So Happy Together

AO3

Words: 1,279. Language: English. Rated G.

Summary: What if, in Frozer Ladybug answered Chat Noir’s question differently?

It was happening again.

Chat Noir was desperate.

He wanted to cry.

He wanted to scream and shout.

He wanted to grab Ladybug’s shoulders and peer into her eyes until his gaze reached the deepest depths of her soul.

He wanted to ask her, "Why don't you love me?" until he finally got an answer.

It was stupid. He knew it was of no use. He could do nothing to make her love him. He would only make things worse.

Besides, he already knew the answer.

That guy again. The mysterious guy Ladybug was in love with. His shadow has haunted them all along, keeping them apart.

Or perhaps it's not just this. Maybe it's Chat Noir who was the reason. Maybe he was unlovable.

Ladybug gave him such a heart-wrenching look that Chat Noir didn't dare touch her. His arms fell limply by his sides in defeat, a scarlet rose in his hand hanging down uselessly, reminding him of his unrequited feelings.

His hopes of ever winning his lady's heart were falling. Just like the petals of the rose he held in his hand.

He had nothing left to lose.

"If it weren't for that guy, would things be different between us?"

Ladybug’s face fell. She turned away.

"Just drop it, Chaton, please. Don't torment yourself," she murmured miserably, her head in her hands.

She was hurting, just as he was. Chat Noir could see it clearly. He hated himself for tormenting her. But he couldn’t just back away. Not yet. He needed a clear answer.

"I just want to know the truth, my lady. I won't ever ask this question again, I promise."

Ladybug turned around to face him once more.

"Do you want to know the truth? Okay. My answer is 'yes'. Yes, I'm sure I would love you the way you deserve to be loved. Yes, I'm sure we would be a couple, a very beautiful one."

"Are you telling me this just to comfort me? Or do you really mean it, Ladybug?" Chat Noir asked with a shaking voice, drooping his head and fidgeting with the rose he was still holding.

"Of course, I really mean it, Chaton". There was the softest expression Chat Noir had ever seen on Ladybug's face, and he suddenly felt stinging in his eyes and a large lump forming in his throat. "Oh god, you are such an amazing and lovable person. Every girl would be lucky to have you. I'm so sorry I can't give you what you want and deserve."

Chat Noir could see in the crystal-clear drops glistening in her sapphire eyes that her heart was breaking on his behalf.

And then she did something totally unexpected.

She cupped his cheek, and Chat Noir’s heart nearly stopped at the touch of her gloved hand on his face.

But if this gesture was unexpected, it was nothing compared to what she did next.

She rose on her tiptoes and placed an ever so tender kiss on his cheek.

"Chaton," she whispered softly in his ear, "please don't dwell on this too much. You have no idea how my heart bleeds every time I have to reject you. Please spare me the pain. You're such a good kitten. I'm sure one day someone will love you the way you deserve."

She then gave him a comforting hug and leapt away.

===

Don't dwell on this too much.

Such useless advice, if you think about it.

It was easier said than done.

You can't just show a picture of paradise to someone who is currently living in hell and then take it away and tell them not to dwell too much on what they've seen.

Chat Noir had thought that Ladybug’s honest answer would finally bring peace to his soul.

But it looked like he was thoroughly mistaken.

It wasn’t a closure. It was the start of something brand new, but just as painful.

He couldn’t get Ladybug’s words out of his head. It was real torture.

The memory of Ladybug’s hot breath tickling his ear was still so vivid. The place she kissed was still burning like a fire.

But now it has transformed into a memory of something that never happened and probably was never going to happen.

These imaginary scenarios of what could've been were passing in a row in front of his eyes, teasing his exhausted mind.

***

He's kneeling in front of his lady, giving her a crimson rose, as he'd done earlier that day, but this time she accepts it and presses it tenderly to her chest. There's a grateful smile playing on her lips.

***

She's leaning in to whisper in his ear, but this time, these are the words of love she tells him.

***

He prepared a romantic date for Ladybug, with candles and rose petals spread around. And this time she comes. She says she loves him too.

***

These scenes looked so real in his head.

As if Ladybug’s words, once uttered, had brought to life a whole parallel universe. A universe where they were in a happy relationship and in love with each other.

And Chat Noir was now sneaking into this paradise through a half-open door.

He wondered if Ladybug had seen similar sneak peeks. Most likely she did; otherwise, she wouldn't be so sure of what she had told him.

What was she feeling when she thought about their possible romance? Was she feeling bad that it didn't happen?

Didn't her heart flutter a single time while imagining these scenarios? Didn't a tiny part of her soul want it to be a reality?

Did that other guy know what he was missing? Would he still be able to sleep at night if he knew that the Goddess herself was crazy in love with him?

He clenched his fists and gritted his teeth at the mere thought.

===

The constant daydreaming and the visions from the parallel reality were getting the best of Chat Noir as the days passed. And there was no way he was going to give up daydreaming anytime soon.

This imaginary world was his quiet corner, which no one could take away from him.

The visions of the paradise he created in his head were so fantastic and enticing that, at some point, Chat Noir didn't care that they weren't real.

***

She's puckering up her kissable lips as she leans in, her scent invading Chat Noir’s senses.

***

She's resting her forehead lovingly against his, her delicate arms wrapped around his neck, before eventually melting into a passionate kiss.

***

They are stargazing, their fingers laced together, her head resting on his shoulder.

***

She's coming from behind while he's waiting for her on the rooftop in an attempt to surprise him by covering his eyes with her palms, and he's feigning to be surprised despite having perfectly heard her approach thanks to his enhanced senses.

***

These pictures, born from Chat Noir's vivid imagination, were countless.

This was still torture, but of a pleasant kind. Chat Noir was surprised to find out that he actually loved the way it hurt. He took strange pleasure in his spiralling thoughts.

He loved the way his throat tightened, the unshed tears prickling his eyes.

He savoured the bittersweet taste of melancholy and the sublime feeling of being rejected.

He loved crying himself to sleep. He'd like to drown in this pool of sorrow.

He reached the point where happiness and misery made no difference anymore. For him it was the same feeling that made his soul vibrate with some strange kind of music.

"My lady, ma belle, my love" he whispered, tears welling up in his eyes again. "We could be so happy together."

A/N: As you can see, not much has changed.

#ml fanfiction #my writing #ml frozer #ladynoir #angst

[celestiall0tus]

Frozer Notes - All That Remained

Alright, number two in the line up of Chat's hissy fits.

So, this is like Glaciator, but I can't give as much slack given the circumstances. However, I pin this one on the writers of the show.

Up until the fight with Frozer, everything was fine. You had Adrien being a tad clueless and blatantly ignoring Kagami's advice, which she had a point. After a while, you need to learn to let go. Yes, I understand Adrien is young and kids have a hard time moving on at times, but the hints are there.

Then of course there is the fight. It honestly annoyed me to see Chat needlessly get angry. It really felt like the writers just wanted a reason to split them up, but there are different ways to do that. You know, suggesting they do some reconnaissance and then set a trap. You know, simple, right? No need to have Chat get pissy and have to just wrap things up instantly.

Personal notes, Kagami is a queen. Luka is just too perfect for my liking. It genuinely makes me laugh, but also frustrates me how they make Luka more flawless than Adrien. You know, the better second option that we don't get to see picked as they're too sensible a choice. I dunno. There's something there that's bothering me, but we shall see.

#miraculous #miraculous ladybug #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #ml frozer #miraculous critical #ml critical #writing critical #all that remained au #all that remained

[multimousenette]

Frozer be like

#miraculous ladybug #ml #ml shitpost #kagami tsurugi #I won’t hesitate bitch #ml frozer #frozer

[zoe-oneesama]

Hi Zoe! I see you're done with Party Crasher. If I'm not wrong, Frozer is up next. What do you think about the episode?

This episode is a prime example of why Season 2 has nearly no rewatch value after you've endured Season 4. It's so hard to watch with hindsight.

So, the biggest funk of this episode was definitely Chat Noir - it was him when the episode came out and it still is now. Literally opening the episode with another romantic gesture when Ladybug confirms this MUST be post "Glaciator" because she very gently and sadly reminds him that he knows she's in love with someone else.

Well, he took the rejection SO WELL in "Glaciator", so why should we expect any different here?

This episode (paired with "Glaciator") is the episode that launched the "Nice Guy(tm) Chat Noir" idea. He says things in this episode that I swear were pulled right from reddit. He decides they should go solo because she turned down his rose... "We don't always have to do everything together, after all. It's not like we're a couple." Seriously dude? All this time together, our partnership, our relationship, our friendship, it all means nothing because I don't want to be your girlfriend? Because I was honest about having feelings for someone else? THAT'S the kind of person you are? What a great role model.

But then he's over it, like, immediately. I'm so confused as to why this was even here. To make Chat Noir look like a dick? Way to sell your main love interest, show~

So Sadrien sadly takes his sad rose to fencing practice and gets his sad ass handed to him by Kagami, who's like "wtf kicking your ass is boring if you just let me" and he asks her "do you ever feel like you're stuck, replaying the same story over and over again and hoping for it change but nothing ever does?"

And Kagami's response is her infamous "the biggest mistake a fencer can make isn't choosing the wrong technique. It's choosing the wrong target. Change targets" advice.

First of all, her metaphor sucks. Fencing is a 1 vs 1 sport, you can't "change targets". You can switch from aiming for the chest to aiming for the leg, but it's still the same opponent, weirdo.

Second of all, nothing about what Adrien just asked you suggested he was talking about a person or a romantic suitor whatsoever. Your only hint was that he was holding his Reject Rose, but even so, why wouldn't your first thought be that he's talking about his father???

Seriously, this could've been a good lead in for the Adri////gami set up if Kagami had assumed he was talking about Gabriel and responded with empathy. "Yes, sometimes I feel like that with my own mother, but I realized I don't like feeling like I'm waiting for change to happen. I make my own change happen. If you want your story to be different, maybe it has to come from you."

And Adrien, still thinking romantically, is struck. 'Wow' he thinks, 'she understands me in a way that honestly? Not a lot of people would.' And he declares that she's right, he's going to change his story starting now, and hands her the rose, starting their romance story.

But no, sure, a bad fencing metaphor about how he should forget other hoes and look at her, that works too, who needs BUILD UP amiright? I was a fool to think that maybe Kagami would need a REASON to be into the Writer's Pet Adrien when he's OBVIOUSLY already PERFECT.

Not that any of this matters since Adrien all but tells Kagami to her face "I had a great time but I'm sticking to my original pick." and she says she'll wait for him, girl, have some self respect.

But that's getting ahead of ourselves. After the two part ways, we have a scene with him and Plagg about Adrien maybe switching targets, and uh..

Look, I noticed a real problem with the dialogue in this episode - there's a lack of connectivity throughout the episode with the things people say. I know I make jokes about the show having five writers per episode who don't communicate with each other, but here it reeeeeally feels like maybe that's not a joke.

Like here: Plagg suggests that Adrien is going to start pursuing Kagami and Adrien rejects this idea because he's in love with Ladybug ("No, no way. Ladybug's the only one I love), and it probably wouldn't work with Kagami anyway because it's his technique that's wrong and he needs advice on what to do.

This seems to suggest that Adrien isn't going to go after Kagami, and if he did, it would be to test out a technique on her. Like going out with Kagami would be practice. Now that's obviously not verbatim what he said and could justifiably be seen as reaching, but do you see my confusion? Not once does he say anything about being into Kagami or wanting to go after her (though admit-ably he did give her the Reject Rebound Rose).

But then two scenes later when he's asking Marinette for help, he's describing Kagami as if he's in love with her, as if he's really interested in her. Where did THAT come from between scenes?! Writers! COMMUNICATE!

Also he says in the French version that they have classes together, and in English that they study together, and I would just like to see WHEN?!

There's another example when Marinette goes off to the bathroom after Kagami gives more..."advice". Tikki asks why she's sad, and instead of pointing out the very obvious "Oh, I don't know Tikki, my crush asked me for advice on how to get close to another girl, I'm third wheeling his date and am forced to watch them skate around holding hands, she practically claimed him when Phillipe was trying to recruit Adrien for his ice rink by reminding him AND me that Adrien is with HER, aaaaand I fell on my butt in front of him, her, and the guy who I also have caught feelings for but am feeling bad about potentially leading him on because of my lingering feelings for Adrien. And then my crush's date basically told me it's my fault that all these things are happening to me because I 'hesitate'. That might have something to do with why I'm sad."

But instead her answer is she likes Luka but doesn't know if what's between them is that they're just friends, like with Adrien????

Even if that WERE a part of it, that's not the thing that started this or even the thing that set her off. So why is that the thing they made her stuck on??? That's like the fourth thing on the list of Things That's Made Her Upset. Her answer sounds like it comes from a pre-edited script or something.

So yeah, the dialogue is...weird. But that's almost normal for Miraculous Ladybug at this point.

So anyway, Adrien vows to get advice from someone who is Not Plagg and realizes very quickly that every adult in his life is utterly worthless so he scouts out his friends. Except of the 4 couples he zones in on (Marc and Nathaniel, Ivan and Mylene, Alya and Nino, Juleka and Rose) 3/4 of them are together because of Ladybug and an akuma.

"Hey bro, I need some advice, how'd you and Alya get together?"

"Oh, Ladybug locked us in a panther cage during an akuma attack after you tried to set me up with her best friend."

Maybe it's not as crazy that he went to Marinette as I initially thought.

(That said this gave me flashbacks because for some reason all my friends came to me for relationship advice despite being chronically single for most of high school, so, I felt that pain Marinette.)

And just...wow, writers, I know Marinette is your punching bag but this was just cruel. Having her crush, the guy YOU'RE SELLING as her true love go off about how pretty and special and amazing this other girl is right to her face? Is this supposed to be an equivalent heartbreak to what happened in the first scene? Because this doesn't feel equal, this just feels malicious on the writer's end. Ladybug didn't grind into Chat Noir's face how AWESOME the mystery boy is and at least Chat Noir got to throw a tantrum about it, where's Marinette's tantrum?!

I'll say the one point I give to the Girl Squad is them telling Marinette she's crazy for agreeing to third wheel this date and that she should definitely cancel on Adrien. If he can't handle being alone with the girl he wants to date, that sounds like a them problem, there's being selfless and then there's being masochistic, girl.

But then they lose that point for yelling over her when she tells them she's going to try being Just a Friend for Adrien.

The Girl Squad scene is also frustrating in this way that Miraculous is continuously frustrating in that the characters just don't quite say the thing that makes sense (like in "Maledictator" with Marinette calling Chloe "useless" instead of things that would actually stick like "bully"). Marinette says she's giving up on Adrien because she stutters around him and dating would be impossible if she can't even talk to him, and that she's calmer when she's trying to be his friend instead of dating him.

But what she should have said was "he just asked me advice on how to ask out someone else, he's clearly not into me!"

She has a good point with the stuttering thing, but that puts all the weight on HER for the relationship not taking off. It's HER that can't get it together, it's HER that can't get her words out, it's HER that's stopping them from being together. Meanwhile Adrien's over here asking out other girls, calling her "just a friend", not showing up to meet ups that she'll be at... Hell, he tried to set HER up with SOMEONE ELSE ("Animan"). He doesn't want to date her! Message Recieved!

So she brings in Luka, (which honestly, smart move, because how much would Kagami have REALLY hated Marinette if she showed up by herself on THEIR date) and we get The Metaphors.

Marinette is clumsy, this is a known fact, yet the only times she's clumsy at the ice rink is because she's focused on Adrien - when she focuses on Luka, she's smooth, easily let's him guide her, and is pulling off professional moves. ALMOST like he's a good, calming influence compared to the chaotic energy that Adrien brings.

The "problem" (if you're writing for this show and want to encourage Adrien and Marinette being together) is that the episode never challenges why this should be a bad thing. They want her to be with Adrien, soooo why are they basically visually proving why Luka is the better option? Why does this whole episode feel like it's actively trying to turn Marinette away from Adrien?

I mean obviously they're starting the Love Rival drama, but I mean long term. With the Skating Metaphor and Marinette bringing up how her own inability to think clearly around Adrien is a problem, and then never COUNTERING those problems, why are we supposed to root for them again?

Oh because Luka gave his consent in the end, not because of any merit that Adrien brings to the table, got it.

Then there's the obvious Two Guys Reaching Out to Help Marinette Up and She Hesitates Because Her Heart is in Conflict Metaphor. I only give this one props because at least none of the characters explained that one, they just let that one speak for itself, even if it was obvious.

Though that one accidentally extended when the reason Marinette doesn't choose is because Phillipe forces his way into the interaction to beg Adrien to join his rink - kinda like random, out of pocket shit that she has no control over is CONSTANTLY MESSING UP HER ATTEMPTS TO MAKE MOVES.

Gosh Kagami, maybe Marinette would've made a choice if she'd gotten five seconds between them without INTERRUPTIONS! Maybe she even would've grabbed BOTH of their hands, then what would you have done?

Sighhhh, I'm sorry Kagami, I don't mean to rip on you. It's just that you were so freaking RUDE in this episode to anyone who wasn't Adrien (and also a little bit to Adrien tbh). You can turn Phillipe's offer down without telling him his favorite sport is basically trash. You can help Marinette up without rubbing it in that you got the guy first. You can let Adrien turn Phillipe down himself without peeing on him, as if you're jealous of a this guy just for asking Adrien to join a sport ("he already fences with ME!"). Let the boy speak for himself - maybe he actually was interested, did you check in on what he wants?

Yes, Adrien shouldn't just go along with people to make them happy, but he's not going to learn to stand up for himself if you just speak for him.

And Luka...well you're just here for a good time, aren't you? So patient, so kind, so the only person in the room who can read the writing on the wall. At least someone in this group isn't lying to themselves.

I'm losing steam, so let's rapid fire:

I knew I'd hate Phillipe as soon as I saw him and I was right. He's annoying and I bet he's the reason no one wants to come to his stupid ice rink because he's lurking there interrupting other people's dates. I was on Andre's side when he ragged on him for trying to force people to join (though dude you gave him ten minutes, what did you think would happen?)

Luka's so magical he can play electric guitar without an amp or any sound amplifying device, impressive. Or the people on this show have never touched an instrument.

Also Luka, your advice to just be natural and go with the flow is great and also WASTED on Adrien, his "natural" is a DISASTER.

Adrien panic-lying that he brought Marinette to teach him how to skate was pointless. Maybe Kagami would've thought it was endearing you were too nervous to go on a date with her alone if you were just honest about it, but now it's just Another Thing Kagami has to turn into a competition because she sees Marinette as a RiVaL (which honestly amazing jumping to conclusions because wut, where'd you get that idea?)

Also, does Kagami shoot a bow? She says she only participates in "noble" sports, like bow or fencing, but I can't tell if she's listing sports she considers noble, or listing sports she participates in. Also what does a "noble" sport even mean?

S-stalac-Tikki...and Plagg-lagla. I know it's Plagg-Glacier in English, but it's Plagg-lagla in French and it sounds like Adrien's VA is gargling or stuttering when he tries to say it.

What happened to Luka and Kagami, you're not even going to show them frozen?!

Frozer is so ugly omigoooood not looking forward to drawing him.

So yeah, anyway, Frozer is hard to watch, especially with hindsight, the bad parts with Chat Noir are really bad but don't stick around long, so there's that, and while it doesn't feel like the characters are being too bad during this whole "dating" fiasco, it suuuuure feels like the writers were~

#ml salt #writing salt #looots of writing salt #frozer salt #my opinion #adrien salt #kagami salt #honestly it really is mostly the writing that's so bad #I did consider bringing in Ice Viperion and Ice Ryuko but logistically that doesn't work in SL since Marinette's not guardian #I might draw them for fun anyway but don't expect them in the episode #an essay by zoe

[wield-the-mighty-pen]

To clarify, this does not mean your favorite episode, but rather, your favorite episode of this ship. Because this had to be whittled down so much to fit into the amount of spaces available for a poll, this doesn't include every Ladrien episode, so feel free to click other and put your episode in the tags!

This is for the purpose of satisfying my curiosity of ship trends in ml, so please share for a larger sample size!

Ladynoir poll

Adrinette poll

#the sad thing is that #this was the easiest poll to make #i didnt have to delete too much #but at least this one is better than my last ladrien poll 😒 #and yes #i am counting the frozer dream sequence #as a ladrien moment #miraculous ladybug #mlb #miraculous #ml #adrien agreste #ladybug #ladrien #ml poll #poll

[miraculous-fatigue]

Lies had issues, sure, but I respect it for being one of the few episodes where Adrien had to experience the consequences of his actions, and he couldn’t push the blame on someone else or ignore it after the fact. Last time that happened was… oh, I can’t remember a time that happened before! Haha! Bad!

Also before anyone says anything I know it’s the writers pushing the blame onto other people, not Adrien himself, he’s just a character they’re writing

#copycat? blame ladybug for not showing up #prime queen? blame ladybug for being rude owo #chat blanc? blame ladybug for unknowingly revealing her civilian identity #etc etc #and that’s not even considering times when he never even experienced consequences #like throwing a hissy fit in glaciator and frozer and kuro neko (where he basically got rewarded) and sentibubbler and hack-san and #fatigued rants #miraculous ladybug #adrien salt #ml salt

[miraculous-floconfettis]

❄️ Parallels ❄️

Frozer S02E17 // Strike Back S04E26

#MLBS4Spoilers #MLBSpoilers #MLBS4Spoiler #spoilers #Miraculous #MiraculousLadybug #ChatNoir #CatNoir #ml season four #mlb s4 spoilers #mlb season 4 spoilers #miraculous floconfettis #Ladybug #adrien agreste #felix fathom #strike back #miraculous parallels #frozer

[little-mari-on-a-roof]

hot take but Frozer might be the most cringe miraculous episode. I mean, the dream love declarations from both Chat Noir to Ladybug (he wants them to go to a deserted island???) and Marinette to Adrien, the whole drama of it, the music, Luka, the whole Kagami talk about changing your target, Adrien asking Marinette for dating advice and her thinking she's talking about him, and Adrien inviting HER to his date with Kagami, the shoelaces thing, Adrien running after Marinette and then being like nooo she's my 💖friend💖, "I never hesitate", Marinette replying to Adrien's offer to do things just the two of them by screaming that there should be everyone else there too...

#this obviously means it's one of the episodes I've rewatched the most #ml s2 #people always talk about puppeteer 2 being cringe but really it's nothing compared to frozer #feel free to tell me if ive missed something #and if you think there's a worse episode #by worse i mean more cringe which means the episode is even better #we love and embrace cringe in this house

[princess-of-the-corner]

I've seen several fic authors reference this idea that ML season 2 was meant to set up a Miraculous Civil War thing.

No clue if that's true but I found the idea interesting and also realize you actually can do that very easily with some episode shuffling and more evenly divided focus, IE:

Episode 1 - The Collector This remains largely the same except Chat does become aware there's a third party that Ladybug knows of but he doesn't.

Episode 2 - Riposte Essentially the same, this is just to get Kagami introduced early, though Ladybug seems oddly... anxious compared to usual.

Episode 3 - Sapotis This is where things start to change a little. Mostly in that Chat starts quietly expressing frustration at being kept out of the loop even if he & Rena get on well.

Episode 4 - Anansi The next verse is the same as the first in this case, as canon, just that Chat is getting more & more grouchy, & Plagg agrees but cannot tell him anything.

Ladybug's penchant to run off is also being noted by others; the reason is that that Marinette now has a 'responsible adult' available, so she's sort of defaulting to Fu even as Ladybug, hence her earlier OOC anxiety in Riposte.

Episode 5 - Frozer His efforts to both wine & dine Ladybug and press for info at what is going on. But because of Marinette's respect for adults she can't bring herself to tell him. This leads to both the 'date' with Kagami & Chat acting as brisk as he does during the battle.

Episode 6 - Style Queen Close to canon but with some notably major if subtle shifts.

Gabriel outlines he's been experimenting with his recent Akuma & determined how to make his strongest & most effective one. He needs someone with a vast idea of their own power, intense emotions beyond the norm and no morals. Luckily the worst person he knows is coming to Paris & she will be his magnum opus!

Other changes including Chloe arguing with Nathalie after her mother leaves & then going to find Adrien, followed y Marinette & Alya when Style Queen transforms and goes for Nathalie first. She want meant to evacuate Adrien before Audrey transformed so yeah that plan failed & she's dusted despite Gabriel trying to order Audrey to focus.

This focus issue comes up again soon when as canon she's captured Ladybug but is now turning on Adrien who is still not golden & about to transform. Gabriel tries to make her focus, but is failing & realizes he underestimate her malice & will. Chloe seemingly talks her out of killing Adrien & Ladybug... Except all Audrey does it dismiss Ladybug and kill Adrien.

The rest of the episode goes largely as canon save that Audrey is blitzing much of Paris for funsies as she's gone rogue. When Plagg destroy the Eiffel Tower we see her reforming into a bigger more pissed off Style Queen before her items broken.

Finally, the biggest shift? The one that causes the dominoes to start falling?

Adrien passes up the chance to get taken back by Ladybug, offering a polite kiss on the hand & follows Chloe. Both cos he's still a bit frustrated & also because he can see Audrey yelling at Chloe already.

Thus he sees her pick up the box and is there as Chat Noir to collect it that night, fade to black.

Episode 7 - No Queen Wasp When Ladybug goes back to get the Bee Miraculous (flashback) we see Chat is there too, intent on making up for his absence he asks what she's looking for. Not wanting to seem irresponsible, Ladybug lies.

This leads Chat to hide the Bee Miraculous & then return it to Chloe who while unhappy Ladybug won't be pleased with her, really wants to be a hero.

Plagg: You sure you can work with that brat? Adrien: I work with a lot of brats (Gives Plagg a stare) Plagg: Hahaha... You meant other models right Adrien? Adrien!

We see Chloe get the Miraculous back & Pollen being surprisingly chill with all this & its followed by Chloe deducing Adrien's identity because, "Who else but you would care about me?"

The next segment of the episode proceed mostly as canon but when it seems Chloe is going to reveal herself, Adrien grabs her arm and guides her to his dressing room.

We see her breakdown over the act her mother doesn't love her & Adrien... Can't really offer much, but suggests she go out for a 'run' to clear her head & maybe something will come up (An Akuma)

She does so & is seen by Alya only as QB & this leads to Ladybug trying to track her down, which becomes a discussion, then argument, then a fight.

Chat Nior joins, admitting he's at fault but also angry he's been kept out of the loop which LB defends because its not her call, which QB thinks is crap on both of them cos one implied LB supported her being a hero & the other is keeping her friend in the dark.

Hawk Moth has regained hope at seeing the fight & almost can't pick who he wants to Akumatize so he goes for the one with the most anger, Chloe.

But, she manages to fight it off in rather epic fashion as well that conveys just how terrifyingly powerful an Akumatized Miraculous Holder would be.

QB staggers back and insists she will be a hero, not even Ladybug can tell her to quit that, then topples off the roof and slinks off while Chat & Ladybug part in confused frustration.

We also see Ladybug comforting Chloe at one point, mistaking the conversation they're having for one about Chloe's mother which could lead to her attempt to mend their relationship.

Meanwhile Gabriel schemes, ranting about the power he felt, about the cracks in the armor and how he has a whole new canvas with which to create.

Fu is unhappy but decides if the person can resist an Akuma they will be a tolerable ally for now, as he 'suspects' he knows who Chat chose & can retrieve Pollen if things don't work out.

We see more of Marinette pushing for Chat's inclusion and discussing her own concerns about how much she's come to rely on Fu.

As well as some of Fu's motives for keeping things so quiet - The less people who know the better, he's paranoid & cautious, Ladybug's magic is better suited for his skills & Chat's schedule makes him hard to get ahold of.

Its integral that him being cut out if not malice, but its already created distrust & its going to take time to mend that. It will be hard given Fu's paranoia & frustration with Chat essentially stealing a Miraculous.

_____________________________

After this it becomes a bit less clear, especially as I would ideally want to bring Kagami & Longg in as well, but this I feel is a strong enough set up for a potential "civil war" angle.

Because the episodes/season that would follow would involve Gabriel not merely sending Akuma but actively trying to drive wedges between the heroes & sew doubt in public.

The situation with hidden identities VS no hidden identities creating friction within the expanded hero group & sides even being picked in public as the dispute becomes more public with stuff like Prime Queen.

Which I think would lead to an eventual shift as well when some identities do slip between them and Hawk Moths game begins reaching its final conclusion, with Volpina being brought back into the fray.

Some of the specifics sort of vary to me, but I think there would be a clash between the Miraculous team, but also some changing sides based on key revelations. Namely, the substitute heroes finding out Ladybug & Chat's identities, but the pair refusing to hear it until the matters resolves causing some to switch sides.

IE, Nino goes with Adrien once he finds out he's Chat Noir, and either Kagami goes with Marinette cos friendship or respect for Ladybug, or Chloe does a surprise switch, possibly due to guilt or shifting dynamics.

Who switches and why would likely depend on whether the issue is meant to bleed into season 3 or if season 2 resolves it. IE, is this a one off conflict that sets up Heroes Day (Or a similar season finale worthy event) or is Heroes Day/Finale the tipping point that splits the team in half for the duration of season. Either way identities are revealed at the end, its just a matter of how the rest shakes out.

NOTES:

Despair Bear still happens, but its also tied to Adrien basically saying, "You can't be a great hero as QB & a bad person as Chloe" as she tries to balance her own issues, pleasing her mother & being a hero.

Malediktator also may tie into some things, like with Chloe trying to befriend Marinette but also have her be mean cos hey Marinette wanted she & her mom to get along & respects Audrey this makes sense right? Leading to rejection that leads her to wanting to leave Paris & a resolution between Chloe & ladybug even if the latter doesn't realize it at first, that also chills things between Marinette and Chloe.

Fu may or may not make it out of this season with his memories intact, depends n how many season 3 elements that could be swapped out, but that's the gist of it.

Also even if the 'civil war' did persist into or basically serve as the central focus for season 3, it'd not strictly stop cooperation over Akuma or Sentimonsters. It'd be more of a undercurrent rivalry situation that may lead to some odd seating arrangements now that everyone's gone up a year.

Honestly I feel like a civil war for the Team should happen at some point because like. Mari tries her best but she's made a LOT of mistakes and hurt them all in the process.

I don't mean this in a 'fuck her' way but in a like. They're going to butt heads and be understandably frustrated and I don't think Mari will change immediately because she's stuck in a 'yeah this hurts but it's for the Greater Good™ mindset' that she won't get over until something REALLy gets to her.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale’s Top Ten: Least favorite episodes of Miraculous Ladybug (as of season 5)

With Season 5 finished and my posting of my top 10 favorite episodes, it’s time I crank the meter the other way. Now some rules

1. Like always this is my personal opinion, and if you liked these episodes, that’s great. I would love to hear your reasoning

2. I will be judging them SOLELY of what was shown in the episode, not by any leaks that came out before or after. I’m solely judging on what is seen and confirmed

3. Word of warning, I will be pretty vicious with my critiques. Also profanities will be thrown.

Now before I go into them, I should give some congratulations to some episodes no longer in my bottom 10

Captain Hardrock: You are still a lame episode, but not the worst you are actually decent in comparison to some of these.

Stormy weather 2.0: Clip shows still are awful, but there are worst things

Frozer: In the grand scheme of things this episode really wasn’t important and there are worst character writing

___________________________________________

10.Sole Crusher

Revisiting this, it really isn’t a good episode for ML. I don’t know what was more Shoehorned in, Zoe’s character arc of replacing Chloé or the lucky charm.

It also makes little sense that Marinette would be the one pushing for Zoe considering her experience with Chloé and her family (especially after Season 5 revealed her trauma).

Now Zoe isn’t a bad character, but she will always be seen as the replacement Good bee, and she deserves better writing.

Honestly it could be argued Queen banana should be here, but that episode is too much of a s***post that I get more enjoyment out of it. This is trying to play this straight and it don’t feel right.

9. Qilin

This episode has a some things going for it, great akuma design, decent action. But it also has a ton going against it. It’s in a series of episodes I like to call “Thomas’ gets political” and I will tell you this, he sucks at it.

I would try and explain further but I am aware I would butcher the topic, all that should be said is, racism tackled poorly and Marinette says she will pay for a ticket that her mother didn’t deserve to get in the first place.

Also the animation looks off in the episode, it just looks so bleh. 

8. Migration

Remember that whole reveal that Luka knows both Ladybug’s and chat noir’s identities and how he kept that to himself?

Well that FINALLY gets addressed. And are Ladybug and chat noir mad at him? No. No consequences for him.

The whole episode acts like he is such an important character but this is one of 2 episodes he’s in where he has more than 2 lines.

Then he gets to travel the world with his dad because monarch found out he knows.

Kagami got akumatized twice and she knew Ladybug’s identity, step up your game Luka.

Also the fake out with Rose was bulls*** and everyone knows it.

Also the entire episode had everyone but Luka lacking brain cells.

I don’t rank it lower because while it annoyed me greatly, there are worse offenders on the list.

7. Animaestro

Astruc complains for 22 minutes that nobody cares about him anymore.

Also Marinette teams up with her bully which after watching Derision, WOULD BE THE LAST thing she would do.

This is the worst example of the Creator calling out the audience, There are other episodes like this but this one is the least entertaining. And if the ending of season 5 is concerned. “I’ve seen your writing, so I can FUCKING CRITIQUE IT YOU ARROGANT PIECE OF…”

Okay, I’m calm. Point being. It’s his call out the critics episode and it sucks

6. Furious Fu

I HATE Su Han.

He is a worse version of Fu in every stretch of the imagination.

The episode where Su han shows up and starts making demands is stupid. The only thing he has going for him is his fighting style which he never teaches the two people that could have needed it!

The episode isn’t lower because despite Su Han’s impact, he really doesn’t do much and he is just there to be a nag later on. Also Fu’s akuma looks dope as hell and gave Fu some slack.

5. Feast

So remember how Su han showed up in the last episode. Well he and all the other guardians were gone for over 100 years because they lost to a 4 Foot blue dog made by a hungry child.

This episode isn’t as bad as the others as a stand alone, but knowing the lore makes it sound so completely stupid. Like Fu was HAUNTED by his past and we find out it was because he was hungry when training and the guardians COULDNT handle that? All trained to fight miraculous users should they go rogue, couldn’t beat ONE DOG. The mysterious order is incompetent as heck.

It’s just so stupid. Also Fu was acting irrational af over all this didn’t help.

4.Reflekdoll

I want everyone to know how massive this is, Reflekdoll is no longer my least favorite episode.

For anyone that follows me, my SEETHING hatred of this episode is well documented.

I won’t go on about how the tropes were horribly done or ignored, how off the banter was, or even how stupid everyone is this episode. Because I’ve discussed it in length.

I will simply say, Thank God there is Passion, so if people want a GOOD kwami swap episode they can watch that one.

3. Miracle Queen

I’ve talked about this episode to death on here. But really the only flaws with it are the last half of the episode.

The drama of the first half is great. But the ass pull of a memory wipe, the clear degradation of Chloé’s character, and just the simple giving up of Hawkmoth, he could have easily still won if he pushed a bit longer. The ending was depressing but also a clear example of how the writers put themselves in a corner with no way out.

The only thing that makes it worse is Fu’s replacement (Su han) ends up being a worse teacher.

Also considering how they spent season 4 quickly getting Marinette and Adrien out of the relationships with the love rivals, even they realize it was a dumb call.

__________________________________________

2. Ephemeral

Hey, let’s make an episode to explain why Adrien can NEVER know his father is the villain.

This episode is the go to justification of the writers on why Adrien will always be sidelined. It was also the unofficial reveal of the sentimonster theory before it was said pretty much outright in season 5.

The worst akuma design. Marinette gaslighting, gate keeping chat noir at its worst.

Gabriel wins and gets his wish.

And none of it mattered and no one remembers it except I think Sass. So it was pretty much pointless.

Not even the ladrien and cute reveal could save it.

And don’t even get me started on how pointless and avoidable it is.

It’s almost funny because despite how pointless this was, it’s still better than number 1.

1. Re-creation

So many cool concepts, great designs. Marinette dropping a piano on Gabriel. So many great things. But it also had some flaws, like having Adrien sidelined, and the focus on heroes from the specials for practically no reason. But all of that could be forgivable if the ending lands…

It really shows how an AWFUL ending can fuck up everything.

Imagine having 5 seasons of fighting to stop a villain from getting the miraculous to make the wish only for him to WIN! Yes he wins. He gets to make the wish, you know the wish that was said should NEVER be used. Of all the stupid, asinine, Shark Jumping BULL SHIT. Who the fuck APPROVED THIS HORSE SHIT?!

So he gets his wish, and he gets a statue HONORING HIM. What the fuck? Adrien, who was ABUSED now sees his abuser as a hero and EVERYONE THAT KNOWS THE TRUTH IN HIS LIFE IS HIDING THE TRUTH FROM HIM. Nathalie, Marinette, Felix, Kagami. Even PLAGG!

And the whole utopia crap, everything is just perfect now, because the villain got what he wanted.

That’s a great lessons for kids! (Blatant Sarcasm)

But let’s really dig in, the ending left a LOT of things vague. And hilariously ALL OF THE POTENTIAL OUTCOMES ARE SHIT.

1. Emilie was revived and Nathalie got healed.

So Gabriel gets everything he wanted from the wish, justifying everything he did and he gets treated like a hero and another person hiding the truth from Adrien. Marinette knows everything that brought this about and is keeping that from Adrien, but is justified slightly because it could encourage Adrien to try and get his father back with a wish. Also brings up the question of who took Emile’s place.

2. Only Nathalie was healed.

Gabriel ended up with Emilie like he wanted, gets treated like a martyr, Adrien is technically an orphan, Marinette is knowingly lying to him about his father and Adrien continues to get Gaslit.

3. Emilie is revived, Nathalie is healed, and memories were altered

Gabriel’s wish basically shaped EVERYTHING how he wanted, meaning he is still in control of Adrien’s life even in death. Even his own wife. So while this removes Marinette covering for him intentionally, it just means Gabriel was so much worse.

4. Nathalie’s healed and memories altered

Gabriel gets to be with Emile and has shaped Adrien’s life even in death. Everyone basically puppeteer by him as he died. Sure he’s dead but he also retconned for his redemption, which is bullshit.

Now there are people that defend this ending/potential ending.

I’m sorry but, unless they revive Gabriel and he gets exposed, Adrien finds out the truth, and he gets held accountable for his actions. I can’t feasibly imagine this ending being good.

The writing staff aren’t going to do Anything about this, they are just going to move on to Lila as the main villain and say the Agreste plotline is over.

If they Do, do something, I’ll happily take back my words and alter my view of the episode but right now.

It’s one of the WORST season finale’s I’ve seen in my life.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #ml critical #ml writer salt #Gale rants #Gale’s top 10 #ml spoilers

[lady-de-mon-coeur]

Real

AO3

579 words. Rated G. Language: English.

Summary: "Oh no, Marinette isn't okay! I must go check on her!" Adrien said, paying no attention to what everyone around him was saying to him. He was hit by some sort of tunnel vision, as he realised later. All that mattered was the urge to find Marinette and make sure that she was doing well.

or

Adrien going after Marinette in Frozer results in a heartwarming hurt/comfort scene.

A/N: Enjoy this short Adrinette one-shot I wrote this morning!

"Oh no, Marinette isn't okay! I must go check on her!" Adrien said, paying no attention to what everyone around him was saying to him. He was hit by some sort of tunnel vision, as he realised later. All that mattered was the urge to find Marinette and make sure that she was doing well.

The next moment, he found himself in front of the closed bathroom door.

"Are you okay, Marinette?" He asked, mourning his inability to see her frail frame, the door getting in the way. Adrien wished he could look her in the eyes.

"Yes, I'm alright." Marinette’s answer came from behind the locked door in a muffled sigh.

There was something off about her voice that made Adrien's heart clench painfully. He could swear he heard a well-camouflaged cry for help in this casual phrase.

No, Marinette clearly wasn't okay, and Adrien hated it. He must do something.

"Are you sure? Can you please open the door? I want to make sure you're alright", he asked softly.

He had to see with his own eyes that his very good friend was doing fine; otherwise, he wouldn't find peace.

He heard Marinette let out a couple of sighs. Then he heard her fumbling at the door; the doorknob clicked, and Marinette appeared in front of him.

At first glance, she wasn't injured, and Adrien was relieved to see that Marinette had no visible bruises and no blood anywhere.

But after taking a careful look, Adrien could see that she clearly didn't feel fine. Her pretty face wore visible signs of the tears she must've shed only a few moments ago. Adrien felt a large lump blocking his throat at the sight of Marinette’s puffy, red eyes and wet tracks on her kissable cheeks.

"Marinette, why were you crying?" He asked in shock, feeling like he was going to succumb to tears as well. "Does it hurt that much?"

"No, it's not that." She mumbled, trying to shield her face from his gaze by arranging and rearranging her hair strands with visibly shaking hands. "I just suddenly didn't feel like skating anymore, that's all.

Adrien didn't feel like skating either. He felt like wrapping Marinette in a bear hug and not letting her go until she felt better.

And so he did.

"Adrien, what are you doing?" Marinette murmured as Adrien was placing one kiss after another on her tear-stained cheeks, on her cute little nose, on her red, swollen eyelids, on her temples, on her forehead, and on the crown of her head. Somewhere in the back of his mind, Adrien was marvelling at how easy Marinette’s height made it for him to kiss her. "Aren't you supposed to be with Kagami?"

That's when it hit Adrien. He totally forgot about Kagami. He totally forgot about Ladybug as well. They were amazing, but they didn't need his help. At that moment, they were distant, almost not real.

But Marinette, an extraordinary girl he grew so fond of over time — she was real. She was here, in his arms. And she was in pain and needed his help, protection, and support, and he was going to give her all of that, despite having no idea what kind of pain she was dealing with or what she needed to be protected from.

Although he felt a late twinge of guilt for leaving Kagami behind, Adrien didn't move from the spot. He had his priorities set. Marinette came first.

#miraculous ladybug #ml fanfiction #ml frozer #adrinette #hurt/comfort #angst #my writing

[tempests-bards-and-birds]

Tikki, Plagg, power up!

#idk about this #i was stuck for something to do today so here we are #miraculous #ml #mlb #miraculous ladybug #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #ml gifs #ml gif #mledit #ml edit #ml edits #ladynoir #ladybug #chat noir #cosmobug #astrochat #astrocat #ml frozer #ml shanghai #ml syren #ml heroes day

[imthepunchlord]

Do you think Gabriel is a better character than Adrien?

No, honestly, ML over all doesn't have any "good" characters. And it's largely due to their writing.

They either have characters hop between two extremes and they have those two extremes exist at the same time like Gabriel "I love my son" to "HAHAHA! I'M GOING TO CHUCK MY SON ACROSS PARIS!" or "Chloe the Hero!" to "Chloe the Villain!" or Alya "Marinette I'm your best friend, here to support you, you can trust me with your secret and I will keep things secretive" to "I'm Lila's best friend, you're just being jealous, and hey, Nino, I gotta tell you something".

Or characters have the issue of just being stagnant and they just don't do anything with them, which hey, there's consistency at least, but you're kinda boring as a character cause nothing changes or is done with you, best examples being Adrien and Luka. But we can appreciate consistency so thumbs up?

Or characters are a pinball that writers will fire at random to meet their needs in certain eps so there is zero consistency in their characterization. Best and biggest example is Kagami. Riptose introduces her as someone overly dedicated, no nonsense, competitive, doesn't like her time wasted, and holding herself to a very high standard. Frozer she's a bold romantic, who is still willing to pursue Adrien despite him saying he wants to pursue his initial crush and wasted her time (Riptose Kagami would've slammed the door on his hand). Then Animaestro she's a more subtle Chloe, purposely acting out to make Marinette jealous and show off her close ties with Adrien. Then Ikari Gozen she's all "I want to befriend Marinette but she's initially hostile/wary of me why?".

Lastly, there's the plot device, best and biggest example is Lila, who can mold the narrative to her needs that it throws logic out the window and she only exists when necessary.

So is Gabriel better than Adrien?

No.

Not by a longshot. He's bad by different means.

Adrien suffers by being stagnant, and by making choices that are clearly bad and should be called out, made to be a lesson, or give him some form of consequence, but aren't cause he's not meant to grow as a character.

Gabriel is bad with his inconsistency. Between his feelings of his son, between how we're supposed to feel for him which they do try to play the pity card sometime but he's also an active eager terrorist, between whether he's a joke villain to laugh at or if he's a more serious villain to take seriously. The latter of which is especially hard cause he's an idiot. Dude had freaking time traveling power and he stilled messed it up.

Gabriel I'd probably say is the most embarrassing part of ML simply by the extremes of his portrayal as a villain, cause he's meant to be that idiotic Saturday morning villain to laugh at, but he's also meant to be the big scary force that you're to take very seriously.

It's very rare to get these two to mix, and ML's crew are not skilled enough to do so, leaving Gabriel as a threat you can't take seriously, one that stuck around for far too long, and is someone you don't feel pity for. And his ending is just irritating.

Much like Chloe, with Gabriel they should've just picked a lane in what sort of villain he is.

#ask Punchie #gabriel salt #adrien salt #kagami salt #chloe salt #alya salt